January 22, 2025 • 35 mins
Kate Waldera talks to Tom Atkinson about getting higher education into Bismarck.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to History Hot Dish, a casual conversation about the
historic people and events that give Bismarket's unique flavor. History
Hot Dish is brought to you by the Bismarck Historical Society,
a local nonprofit whose mission is to learn, preserve, and
promote the history of Bismarck. Sit back, turn up the
volume and enjoy another helping of history Hot Dish.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to another episode of History Hot Dish. I'm your host,
Kate Wildera, a member of the Bismarck Historical Society's Board
of Directors. Today our guest is Tom Atkinson, a fellow
member of the board of Directors. Tom, thanks again for
coming for another helping of history Hot Dish. And today
(00:42):
we are going to talk about the battle for state
funded higher education in Bismarck, the private colleges in Bismarck,
and the university that got away. So Tom, for our listeners,
tell us a bit about yourself, your background, and why
you're interested in the history of higher education in Bismarck.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Well, thank you Kate for having me this morning. Always
a joy to be here. My background is I am
formally educated as a civil structural engineer, though I spent
most of my career in the environmental engineering business or
environmental management. I never lost my love for the structural
engineering business, so I still occasionally do projects in there.
(01:27):
My interest in higher education in Bismarck is Growing up
in Bismarck, I often heard people tell me that, you know,
Bismarck could have had the University of North Dakota, but
instead we took the state prison because it employed more
people and had more money. Well, after a while I
(01:47):
thought about that. I said, I'm going to I got
to look into it. Do I really believe that statement?
So I started to do some research on the history
of higher education in Bismarck to see if the statement
was true. What I found was that Bismarck was never
really in the running for the University of North Dakota,
and in fact, the details of the statement are probably
(02:10):
only valid for about three months in eighteen eighty three.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
So by that end of the eighteen eighty three territory legislature.
Are you saying then, that the location of many of
the state funded institutions were already established.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
You are correct. Before we were even into statehood, people
were working to get different universities or state institutions located
within their cities. You go all the way back to
the eighteen seventy three to territorial legislature, a bill was
introduced to authorize University of North Dakota and the Land
(02:50):
Grant University in Fargo. Let me rephrase that. The bill
was introduced to authorize the University of North Dakota at
gram Forks and the Land Grant University Infargo. That was
the land grant program was started by the federal government
in eighteen sixty two and was only applicapold to those
(03:11):
that were in a state. So the land grant program
kind of went on the side, but they were trying
to get the University of North Dakota in Grand Forks
way back in eighteen seventy three. You think about it
for a second and the person goes, why would anybody
be doing that? Well, the answer is you backed up
(03:31):
another nine or another eleven years and a bill was
introduced in the eighteen sixty two legislature territorial literal nature,
authorizing the University of South Dakota in Vermilion, South Dakota.
So somebody back in eighteen sixty two got the University
of South Dakota authorized, same thing was happening here in
(03:55):
eighteen seventy three, somebody was fighting to get the University
of North Dakota office zed. In the case of the
University of South Dakota, it was passed, the bill was passed,
but they never funded it. It took him another twenty
one years to fund the university. However, in North for
the North, the bill to authorize the University of North
(04:18):
Dakota was defeated. What we think for a second, what's
happening in Bismarck in the spring or in March of
eighteen seventy three. Well, first off, Bismarck was known as Edwinton.
We had just been established a year earlier, and to
(04:38):
be blood, we weren't even the end of the railroad line.
The railroad didn't come to Bismarck until the summer of
eighteen seventy three. So to think, if right off the bat,
if Bismarck was going to say, well, we should have
been fighting for the University of North Dakota in eighteen
seventy three, we hardly even existed.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
So technically we weren't even in the state. So I'm curious,
you know where the names North Dakota or NDSU, and
UND came home because we weren't officially North.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
You are correct, they were just saying we're going to
authorize a university at Graham Forks in the northern part
of the territory. So they hadn't even come up with
un D very good point or calling for NDSU. So
either way, that bill was defeated and it kind of
went on the back burner until eighteen seventy nine. We're
(05:35):
still a territory. At the territory legislature, a new champion
stood up. His name was George Walsh. George was from
Graham Forks. He was a newspaper editor, one of the
earliest settlers in the Grand Forks area. Walsh County, which
(05:55):
is just north of Graham Forks County, is named after him.
Often is the county seat. For those who remember the
University of North Dakota Campush, there is a wash Hall
that was a dormitory up there, just demolished about a
year ago, and there is still a bust of George
Wals's Walsh on the campus of UND. So he stood
(06:18):
up in eighteen seventy nine. Not only was he elected
to the territory of Legislature. He was also the Upper
House president. He was an advocate for university in Graham Forks.
He reintroduced the bill eighteen seventy nine eighteen eighteen eighty one.
(06:40):
The bill was not passed, however, he was an advocate
for it. Now we come up to the eighteen eighty
three territory legislature. The handwriting was on the wall. You
could see that it was going to be a North
and South Dakota. They were getting very close to statehood.
(07:01):
It was going to take another six years, but the
legislature could see it was coming. So in the eighteen
eighty three territorial legislature they started authorizing well, i say,
one of each, one for the north, one for the South.
They authorized a university at Grand Forks, called it the
(07:22):
University of North Dakota, and also funded it. They authorized,
they funded, Since they had already authorized the University of
South Dakota, they then funded that one. They authorized a
land grant college up north down south. They authorized three
normal schools in the northern part of the territory and
(07:42):
three in the south. The three in the north went
to Mayville, Valley City and Milner. Well, we all know Milner, Milner,
which is in the southeast corner.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Of the story.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
North Dakota Milner, North Dakota.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Oh my gosh. When you said Milner, I thought you missed.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Folk and No Mayville, Valley City and Milner. And in
fact they authorized them, but they didn't find them. However,
the folks I'll touch on Milner, the folks in Milner
actually went out and got their own put up their
own money, and opened a normal school in eighteen eighty three.
(08:25):
It only stayed open until eighteen ninety, but it was authorized,
they funded it, they started doing it.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Wow, that is so interesting. That's a piece of history
that I was not aware of.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Okay, yeah, it's fine. I don't think of Milner as
a university.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
That's why I thought you missed spoke Milner. So that
there's anything wrong just surprised me.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
So you authorized the School of Science down south, we
did one here at Wapiton up North. School of Forestry
went into bot No State Manual Training School went into
Ellendale State Hospital Jamestown. The Institute for the Feeble Minded
(09:13):
is what they called it at the time, went into
Grand Forks, and that's then a state penitentiary. Of all
those authorizations. Only two of them received funding. The State
Penitentiary in Bismarck got fifty thousand dollars to build the
pen to build the penitentiary and to start operating. University,
(09:35):
to be located in Grand Forks received thirty thousand dollars. However,
they also gotzer point one mill of yearly property taxes
collected to keep them ongoing. Okay, so to me, we go, okay,
if you stop right now, we are in March of
eighteen eighty three, and you go, okay. Grand Forks got university,
(09:59):
Bismarck got state penitentiary. Maybe that's where the statement came from.
I could say, okay, I could accept that, that's where
the statement came from, until you look at something that
was much more important. The eighteen eighty three legislature also said,
let's go look for a new location for the territory capital.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Oh yes, and then the big big that's.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Right, you know, you think about that for a second.
And for those if we have any historians out there
or students who need to do some research, I would well.
The discussion about moving a territorial capital is pretty well documented.
All the activity that went on, much of it highly unethical.
(10:45):
Probably some of it illegal.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Oh that wouldn't surprise high.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
But it's well documented. What isn't well documented is why
did they decide to move the territorial capital from Yankton.
I can't find anything on that, and I'm thinking to myself,
you know, the state is coming. It's the handwritings on
the wall Yanketon. What did you do that they decided
(11:10):
to move the territorial capital. That would be a fun
one to research.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Oh, absolutely, it would be.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
I think you'd have to really dig into stories and
you know, discussions.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
You know, if you could even find that.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
You find it, yeah, you know, if there were.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Any hearings on a public hearings on it or whatever,
to see what people were saying and what some of
their reasons were. Because I think Jamestown was in the
running for it too well.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
In North Dakota, the three there were four major cities
that were in the running for the territorial capital. First off,
to get the new territorial capital, you had to commit
one hundred and sixty acres and put up one hundred
thousand dollars. The town had to do it. The four
in the running in North Dakota was Bismarck, Steel, Jamestown,
(11:59):
and Odessa, and I sat there and I went, where
is Odessa, North Dakota. Well, it turns out Odessa was
not a town. It was a township located by Devil's Lake.
So there was no town. They were proposing, let's build
a whole new town kind.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Or something along the lines of maybe District of Columbia
exactly for the national capital exactly.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Okay, gotcha.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
So we got to remember Bismarck was fighting for what
we considered to be a much more important feat to
become the territorial capital. Well we did that. It was
the summer of eighteen eighty three, and we became the
new territorial capital. So by eighteen eighty three everything is
(12:47):
locked in. We're not even a state yet, and all
these institutions have been divvied up and given to the
different towns. So you know your statement was right there. Yep,
it's all locked in. Lo and behold we come to
the eighth eighty nine state constitution. Everything just rolls right
on over. Nothing changes. The only exception is Bismarck had
(13:09):
the fight to be the capital again. Okay, there move.
There was attempts to move the capital to Fargo, Jamestown, Carrington, Ellendale,
and Steele. So in eighteen eighty nine, we are once
again fighting to save the state capital what would become
the state.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Capit, the territorial.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
State capital. Yep. So we were constantly battling. So we
are sitting in eighteen eighty nine. Higher education is not
coming to Bismarck. We're fighting just to become the state
the territorial capital, and then the state CASP.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
That's where the focus was.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
The next opportunity education could have come to Bismarck was
in nineteen oh four. Nineteen oh four, the board of
trustees on the North Dakota Academy of Science, which ultimately
became the North Dakota Board of Higher Education. Through several steps,
they recommended that two normal schools be built in western
(14:10):
North Dakota. Well normal schools we now call teacher schools,
and their recommendation was somewhere in western North Dakota because
we lacked the teachers in western North Dakota and people
from the east didn't want to move to the west.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
So I'm guessing maybe mine not.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
And Dickinson exactly, the chairman of the committee that made
the recommendations was M. A. Bannon, who was from Grand
Forks grew up in man Not, so somebody had an
inside lead right there. Nineteen oh eight they recommend both
Dickinson and mine not. It took to nineteen ten for
(14:52):
the legislature to approve to submit to the state volders
to change the constitution to authorize wy Not, and it
took till nineteen sixteen for the state constitution to be
changed to authorize Dickinson. But they both finally got locked.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
In the wheels of government.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
So a person would have sat there and said, well,
why didn't Bismarck try to get in on that? And
the answer was there. It was only nineteen oh four
to nineteen ten. There was still some bad feelings out
there about how Bismarck became the territorial capital and then
became the state capitol. And basically we had folks like
(15:36):
the president of Ellendale Normal School was saying, Bismarck's got
the state capital, they will never get a normal school.
So there's some strong feelings out there.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
People carried grudges for a while, I think.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
So we were never there. The next round came up
in nineteen thirty one. The Nature authorized junior colleges in
towns with more than ten thousand people in population, and
then they modified that to five thousand people in population. Well,
(16:15):
guess what Bismarck got in there, Devil's Lake and Williston,
and that pretty well covers all our major universities or
colleges to this day. Yes, and that's how Bismarck got
in there. They did not fund these authorizations. They just
said you're permitted to do it. As a curiosity, I
(16:38):
sat there and thought to myself, how many towns in
North Dakota have more than five thousand people? And if
you went and looked at the twenty twenty census, only
fourteen cities of more than five thousand people. So that's
why we have what we have to this day, we're
(17:00):
up to nineteen thirty one were authorized a junior college
in Bismarck, but no money. Bismarck Boulders decided to open
Bismarck Junior College as part of the Bismarck Public school system.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Okay, yeah, I remember in the original Bismarck High building
I think, wasn't it the upper two floors were dedicated
to the college.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yes, you're right, it was. It was mainly up on
the third floor.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Okay, I knew it was one of these yeppers.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
My dad remembers referring to people referring it to as
the high school with the ash trays, because if you
think about it, in nineteen thirty nine and then World
War Two, the college was mainly geared for returning veterans
or soldiers from the war.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Okay, like the Gi bill, kind.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Of the gi bill, and yep, they were smoking the
ash trees.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
The ash trees.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
That's where the other streets came from. Bismarck had to
go big for land up at the state Capitol grounds
to build a bigger building, and they did that in
nineteen fifty one. They built what I always called the
Highway Department building.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
And that's the one that's the closest to boulevardists. It
curves round to States to.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Go straight up Ninth Street. It's right at the end
of it.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
Okay, gotcha.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
That was in nineteen fifty one. Bismarck, the City of Bismarck,
paid for that to build that building, and that became
the new Bismarck Junior College. And then ultimately they moved
to Schaeffer Heights and lo and behold. In nineteen eighty three,
finally Bismarck Junior College was moved from the Bismarck Public
(18:51):
School budget to the North Dakota University System budget and
they funded it. So it took us almost one hundred
years to get to get a state funded It's incredible.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Well, and then the generosity two of the Shafers, because
I believe they donated a lot of the land that
the Junior College sits on right now.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
They did, the generosity of the Shafers to do it,
and just all that work to go it is amazing.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Hundred years, yeah, one hundred years just to drop the
drop in the bucket. Well, that just illustrates my earlier
point that the government, the wheels the government move awfully
slow sometimes, but we got it and that was the
end goal in mind. Under the break and a reminder
(19:43):
for our guests who have joined us that you're listening
to History Hot Dish on Radio Access one O two
point five f M. I'm your host, Kate Waldera, and
today our guest is Tom Atkinson, a fellow member of
the Bismarck Historical Society and a long time biz Mark resident.
And today we're talking about the early days of higher
(20:04):
education in Bismarck, North Dakota. Well, since we've talked about
the public quite a bit, let's move into the for
profit and not for profit private colleges in Bismarck.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Okay, Well, thank you for those who remember them, the
for profit schools. We had a Bismarck Business College. There
may be some out there who remember taking typing classes there.
It opened in nineteen oh five. It was classes in
business shorthand, bookkeeping, office practices, typing. They were located in
(20:40):
the original Lambert Lamborne Hotel on the northeast corner of
six and Maine, but then they moved to five to
twenty East Main when the motel was demolished. They were
bought out in nineteen eighty three by the international by
the Interstate Business College. The Interstate Businesusiness College originally opened
(21:02):
in Fargo in nineteen twelve. They were always the main
competitor of the Bismarck Business College. They offered exactly the
same classes. They bought up the Bismarck Business College in
nineteen eighty three. They ultimately the Interstate Business College closed
in nineteen ninety eight, filed for bankruptcy and There was
(21:24):
also some students who filed fraud charges for loss money,
so that ended kind of quickly.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Yeah, I remember that unfortunate story.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah, kind of some tough times there. The other for
profit school we had in town was Actors College. Actors
was originally founded in Fargo in nineteen o two and
then moved to Grand Forks in nineteen oh five. And
Hans Ocher from pronouncing his last name correct, actually was
(21:56):
the principle of Concordia College way back in eighteen ninety four,
so he had a formal education. They opened in Bismarck
in two thousand and three up at seventeen oh one
East Century.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
Yeah, and then they became.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Rathmussen bought them out in two thousand and seven, and
rathmusen closed the building or closed their operations here in
Bismarck because in twenty fifteen because ninety percent of their
students were taking classes online, so they've moved everything to Minneapolis.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
So those are.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
The main the main four profit schools that were in Bismark.
The not for profit private schools, well, we had the
Mary College start in nineteen fifty nine, became the University
of Mary, and then the United Tribes Technical College, which
formed in nineteen eighty two, and the history of those
(22:53):
two colleges are very, very intriguing, and to do it right,
I would like to see if we Quinck get somebody
from those institutions to come on this show someday and
talk about the history.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah, that's excellent ideas for future programming.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
For future programming. So if they're out there listening, we're
trying to get you to come on in. Yes, let's
have you talk.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Absolutely, we would love that.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
If you look at today now the fall enrollment numbers.
Official fall enrollment numbers are not out, but as of
early guesses for the fall of twenty twenty four, there's
approximately eighty eight thousand, one hundred college students in the
Bismarck area.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
That's am amazing, really.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
A lot, give or take three eight hundred at Bismarck
State College, three thousand, seven hundred at the University of
Mary and about six hundred at United Tribes. I often
think that Bismarck sometimes just doesn't appreciate how many students
we have here from higher education.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Well, and it's a tribute to all the hard work
in the past that got those institutions up and running
and developing as they are. I mean, we all hear
about Bismarck State College and the amazing programs that it has.
You know, the United Tribes equally so and University of Mary.
You know, they are really growing in leaps and bounds
(24:21):
doctoral degrees at the University of Mary. I think I've
heard talk of Bismarck State College perhaps becoming a four
year college, or at least developing four year programs. It's
leaps and bounds from what anybody ever dreamed they would be.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
It is. It really is amazing numbers in my mind.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Well, tell me about the university that got away.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I'm intriguing that in eighteen ninety one, a gentleman by
the name of Henry Francis Wogan, doctor Francis Wogem, proposed
the North Dakota University in Bismarck.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
His vision.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Doctor doctor Wogum was a person who came to us
from Ohio. He had five degrees, moved here in eighteen
eighty one with his wife Abby. She only had two
degrees only for eighteen eighty one, very good only degrees.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
I can't imagine.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
They homestead at eighteen miles north of Bismarck, roughly just
off Highway eighteen oh four. His vision. He was actually
approached in eighteen ninety one by the North Dakota State
Superintendent of Schools, mister Ogden, who proposed that he be
that doctor Wogum be the leader of Maybell Normal School,
(26:00):
but he declined. His vision was North Dakota University, Bismarck.
I should mention there is a town called Wogan Sport,
which is again about eighteen miles north of Bismarck, no
longer exists. The town might have been named after him,
(26:20):
though there was another person by the name of Thomas
wogum Man who was also a big supporter of the town,
so it could have been either one of them either way.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
It's flip a coin either way.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Doctor Wogum was the first postmaster of the town, so
you have to look for it. You can see the
road if you're really are looking hard out as you're
driving eighteen oh four heading north. So on June fifth
of eighteen ninety one, doctor Wogum incorporated North Dakota University, Bismarck.
(26:59):
It was going to have four year degrees in arts, sciences, letters, philosophy, law, medicine.
Normal and theology in eighteen ninety one. It had apparently
moved so quick, which I'd like to say, moved so quick.
Quote that an eighteen ninety one US Bureau of Education
(27:20):
report stated quote Bismarck North Dakota University two male and
two female professors in the preparatory department, one male and
one female professor in the collegiate department, and three males
in the professional development or nine professors in all, with
thirty male and twenty five female pupils in the preparatory department,
(27:43):
eight males and seven females in the professorship department, and
a library of one thousand bound volumes and fifteen hundred pamphlets. Wow,
and then you go, what we never heard of this before?
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Where did that all come from?
Speaker 3 (28:00):
It didn't exist, It was just it was in his dream.
It was in his dream. But he submitted the report
to the US Bureau of Education. They published it.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Oh my gosh, for all posterity.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
But not really, not really.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Never happened.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Okay, Oh, talk about a dream. While at least you
have to give him credit for thinking big.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Anyway. Oh yeah, that was oh book, that is amazing.
Books started to arrive. Books and manuals started to arrive
in Bismarck, and everybody's walking around going where is this place.
I've never even found any reference to where he bought
any land. So apparently he had the dream. It just
never worked out.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Never go well.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Bless his heart for true absolutely.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
In eighteen ninety four, the Post Office started an investigation
for fraud. They arrest a grand jury indicted him in
August of eighteen ninety five. He had to post one
thousand dollars by well. Edward Patterson of Patterson Motel posted
the bond, So that tells you the gentleman had good.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Connection had did have good connections.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Trial They went to trial in January of eighteen ninety
six up in Devil's Lake. No record of the trial
because they settled out of court.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
You know, if there was a case brought against him,
would that have possibly been because some people based on
that report to the higher two US Department of Education
and tried to enroll maybe sentment, sent money in and
there was no school.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Cool, Yes, quite possibly. Haven't found reference to it, but yeah,
I suspect there must have been something like that, if
they were just for.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Having a dream and putting a false report in wouldn't
be enough to bring him to court for fraud, so
somebody must have had to lay down tuition money.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
And then there was no school, and maybe some other
sponsors or people wanting to do.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
Scholarships or who knows absolutely things like that happened.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
So anyhow, doctor Wogum and his wife did stay in
Bismarck until nineteen ten, and then they finally moved to Minneapolis.
The best way, and this is kind of a tough analysis.
Best way to describe the situation, though, came from the
July thirty first, eighteen ninety six edition of the Willston
(30:30):
Graphic newspaper. Their editorials said, quote, Henry F. Wogum of
Bismarck is sending into name into his name. I'm sorry,
Henry F. Wogum of Bismarck is sending into several counties
throughout the state written permission for people to sign requesting
his name to be placed on a state ticket as
(30:52):
a candidate for Superintendent of Public Instruction. Wogum has wheels
in his head all made of pete pewtered brass. He
is what is known as an educated fool, and is
nothing more nor less than a pacific lunatic. He is
crazy as a bed bug, no less harmless. In about
(31:17):
several years ago, imagined that he was the founder and
president of the North Dakota University, an institution that never
had an existence and since circular throughout the country, soliciting
subscriptions of money for the institution and books and magazines
for the library. The United States authorities got onto the
fraud and he was indicted for using the mail for
(31:38):
illegal purposes. Poor fellow, he is more to be pitied
than despised.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Oh they didn't, No, they didn't mince words at all. Well,
I can't fault him for having a dream, but he
kind of went about it backwards.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
So that is our university that got away.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
Yes, Well, kind of backing up up a little bit.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
I'm curious about the University of North Dakota versus NDSU,
And I know there's always been a rivalry between the
two institutions. So one of the things is which one
came first, the University of North Dakota or the North
Dakota State University.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
The University of North Dakota would have been authorized in
eighteen eighty three, no funding, but they were authorized North
Dakota State University since they were a land grant university,
that basically meant well, okay, since North Dacost State University
was a land grant university, they were not authorized till
(32:43):
eighteen eighty nine. The reason for that is the land
grant program was run through the United States federal government.
They would ought they would pay for so much land
and for the development of the university, so did not
start until eighteen eighty nine. You and D authorized, but
(33:05):
and funded in eighteen eighty three.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Okay, interesting, Yeah, I thought it was University of North Dakota.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
That came first on that.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
And then I know too some famous people have come
through the our alumni of both of those institutions.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
I believe.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
With UND it would have been Phil Jackson, I believe
was a famous alumni. One of our rough Rider Award winners,
Arabella Thompson, I think was a UND And then as
far as Andy su goes, we've got our current governor
burgham we Link Arthur Link was an alumni. And then
(33:49):
of course anybody that follows football, Carson Wentz was an alumni.
So we've had some pretty notable people that have walked
the halls of those two institutions.
Speaker 4 (33:59):
I would agree absolutely well.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
To close out the program, Tom, where can our audience
find out more information about the history of higher education
in Bismarck.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
If anybody has questions, all they need to do is
go to the Bismarck Historical Society web page and drop
in a question and I review them. I review all
the questions for that web page and I'll gladly answer anything.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah, I believe it's info at Bismarckhistory dot org.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Correct. And if there are students out there who would
like to do who are looking for something to do
because they need to work on a master's degree or
a paper.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Or a good topic for like you say, history paper, a.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
History paper, I'll gladly give them what information I can
and send them where what information I was able to find.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Well, thanks again, Tom for coming in visiting with us
again and sharing your background on the history of higher education.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
It's been fascinating. Thank you, Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Thank you for listening to history hot dish.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
If you like what you heard.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
The Bismarck Historical Society hosts programs and events throughout the year.
We welcome all those with an interest in local history
to join us. For more information about programs or membership,
visit our website Bismarkhistory dot org, or find us on Facebook.
You can find History Hot Dish on one o two
point five FM, Radioaccess dot org, and anywhere you find
great podcasts. History Hot Dish is produced by the Bismarck
(35:30):
Historical Society in partnership with Dakota Media Access
Welcome to History Hot Dish, a casual conversation about the
historic people and events that give Bismarket's unique flavor. History
Hot Dish is brought to you by the Bismarck Historical Society,
a local nonprofit whose mission is to learn, preserve, and
promote the history of Bismarck. Sit back, turn up the
volume and enjoy another helping of history Hot Dish.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
Welcome to another episode of History Hot Dish. I'm your host,
Kate Wildera, a member of the Bismarck Historical Society's Board
of Directors. Today our guest is Tom Atkinson, a fellow
member of the board of Directors. Tom, thanks again for
coming for another helping of history Hot Dish. And today
(00:42):
we are going to talk about the battle for state
funded higher education in Bismarck, the private colleges in Bismarck,
and the university that got away. So Tom, for our listeners,
tell us a bit about yourself, your background, and why
you're interested in the history of higher education in Bismarck.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Well, thank you Kate for having me this morning. Always
a joy to be here. My background is I am
formally educated as a civil structural engineer, though I spent
most of my career in the environmental engineering business or
environmental management. I never lost my love for the structural
engineering business, so I still occasionally do projects in there.
(01:27):
My interest in higher education in Bismarck is Growing up
in Bismarck, I often heard people tell me that, you know,
Bismarck could have had the University of North Dakota, but
instead we took the state prison because it employed more
people and had more money. Well, after a while I
(01:47):
thought about that. I said, I'm going to I got
to look into it. Do I really believe that statement?
So I started to do some research on the history
of higher education in Bismarck to see if the statement
was true. What I found was that Bismarck was never
really in the running for the University of North Dakota,
and in fact, the details of the statement are probably
(02:10):
only valid for about three months in eighteen eighty three.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
So by that end of the eighteen eighty three territory legislature.
Are you saying then, that the location of many of
the state funded institutions were already established.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
You are correct. Before we were even into statehood, people
were working to get different universities or state institutions located
within their cities. You go all the way back to
the eighteen seventy three to territorial legislature, a bill was
introduced to authorize University of North Dakota and the Land
(02:50):
Grant University in Fargo. Let me rephrase that. The bill
was introduced to authorize the University of North Dakota at
gram Forks and the Land Grant University Infargo. That was
the land grant program was started by the federal government
in eighteen sixty two and was only applicapold to those
(03:11):
that were in a state. So the land grant program
kind of went on the side, but they were trying
to get the University of North Dakota in Grand Forks
way back in eighteen seventy three. You think about it
for a second and the person goes, why would anybody
be doing that? Well, the answer is you backed up
(03:31):
another nine or another eleven years and a bill was
introduced in the eighteen sixty two legislature territorial literal nature,
authorizing the University of South Dakota in Vermilion, South Dakota.
So somebody back in eighteen sixty two got the University
of South Dakota authorized, same thing was happening here in
(03:55):
eighteen seventy three, somebody was fighting to get the University
of North Dakota office zed. In the case of the
University of South Dakota, it was passed, the bill was passed,
but they never funded it. It took him another twenty
one years to fund the university. However, in North for
the North, the bill to authorize the University of North
(04:18):
Dakota was defeated. What we think for a second, what's
happening in Bismarck in the spring or in March of
eighteen seventy three. Well, first off, Bismarck was known as Edwinton.
We had just been established a year earlier, and to
(04:38):
be blood, we weren't even the end of the railroad line.
The railroad didn't come to Bismarck until the summer of
eighteen seventy three. So to think, if right off the bat,
if Bismarck was going to say, well, we should have
been fighting for the University of North Dakota in eighteen
seventy three, we hardly even existed.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
So technically we weren't even in the state. So I'm curious,
you know where the names North Dakota or NDSU, and
UND came home because we weren't officially North.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
You are correct, they were just saying we're going to
authorize a university at Graham Forks in the northern part
of the territory. So they hadn't even come up with
un D very good point or calling for NDSU. So
either way, that bill was defeated and it kind of
went on the back burner until eighteen seventy nine. We're
(05:35):
still a territory. At the territory legislature, a new champion
stood up. His name was George Walsh. George was from
Graham Forks. He was a newspaper editor, one of the
earliest settlers in the Grand Forks area. Walsh County, which
(05:55):
is just north of Graham Forks County, is named after him.
Often is the county seat. For those who remember the
University of North Dakota Campush, there is a wash Hall
that was a dormitory up there, just demolished about a
year ago, and there is still a bust of George
Wals's Walsh on the campus of UND. So he stood
(06:18):
up in eighteen seventy nine. Not only was he elected
to the territory of Legislature. He was also the Upper
House president. He was an advocate for university in Graham Forks.
He reintroduced the bill eighteen seventy nine eighteen eighteen eighty one.
(06:40):
The bill was not passed, however, he was an advocate
for it. Now we come up to the eighteen eighty
three territory legislature. The handwriting was on the wall. You
could see that it was going to be a North
and South Dakota. They were getting very close to statehood.
(07:01):
It was going to take another six years, but the
legislature could see it was coming. So in the eighteen
eighty three territorial legislature they started authorizing well, i say,
one of each, one for the north, one for the South.
They authorized a university at Grand Forks, called it the
(07:22):
University of North Dakota, and also funded it. They authorized,
they funded, Since they had already authorized the University of
South Dakota, they then funded that one. They authorized a
land grant college up north down south. They authorized three
normal schools in the northern part of the territory and
(07:42):
three in the south. The three in the north went
to Mayville, Valley City and Milner. Well, we all know Milner, Milner,
which is in the southeast corner.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
Of the story.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
North Dakota Milner, North Dakota.
Speaker 4 (08:00):
Oh my gosh. When you said Milner, I thought you missed.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
Folk and No Mayville, Valley City and Milner. And in
fact they authorized them, but they didn't find them. However,
the folks I'll touch on Milner, the folks in Milner
actually went out and got their own put up their
own money, and opened a normal school in eighteen eighty three.
(08:25):
It only stayed open until eighteen ninety, but it was authorized,
they funded it, they started doing it.
Speaker 2 (08:32):
Wow, that is so interesting. That's a piece of history
that I was not aware of.
Speaker 3 (08:37):
Okay, yeah, it's fine. I don't think of Milner as
a university.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
That's why I thought you missed spoke Milner. So that
there's anything wrong just surprised me.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
So you authorized the School of Science down south, we
did one here at Wapiton up North. School of Forestry
went into bot No State Manual Training School went into
Ellendale State Hospital Jamestown. The Institute for the Feeble Minded
(09:13):
is what they called it at the time, went into
Grand Forks, and that's then a state penitentiary. Of all
those authorizations. Only two of them received funding. The State
Penitentiary in Bismarck got fifty thousand dollars to build the
pen to build the penitentiary and to start operating. University,
(09:35):
to be located in Grand Forks received thirty thousand dollars. However,
they also gotzer point one mill of yearly property taxes
collected to keep them ongoing. Okay, so to me, we go, okay,
if you stop right now, we are in March of
eighteen eighty three, and you go, okay. Grand Forks got university,
(09:59):
Bismarck got state penitentiary. Maybe that's where the statement came from.
I could say, okay, I could accept that, that's where
the statement came from, until you look at something that
was much more important. The eighteen eighty three legislature also said,
let's go look for a new location for the territory capital.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
Oh yes, and then the big big that's.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Right, you know, you think about that for a second.
And for those if we have any historians out there
or students who need to do some research, I would well.
The discussion about moving a territorial capital is pretty well documented.
All the activity that went on, much of it highly unethical.
(10:45):
Probably some of it illegal.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Oh that wouldn't surprise high.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
But it's well documented. What isn't well documented is why
did they decide to move the territorial capital from Yankton.
I can't find anything on that, and I'm thinking to myself,
you know, the state is coming. It's the handwritings on
the wall Yanketon. What did you do that they decided
(11:10):
to move the territorial capital. That would be a fun
one to research.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
Oh, absolutely, it would be.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
I think you'd have to really dig into stories and
you know, discussions.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
You know, if you could even find that.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
You find it, yeah, you know, if there were.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
Any hearings on a public hearings on it or whatever,
to see what people were saying and what some of
their reasons were. Because I think Jamestown was in the
running for it too well.
Speaker 3 (11:36):
In North Dakota, the three there were four major cities
that were in the running for the territorial capital. First off,
to get the new territorial capital, you had to commit
one hundred and sixty acres and put up one hundred
thousand dollars. The town had to do it. The four
in the running in North Dakota was Bismarck, Steel, Jamestown,
(11:59):
and Odessa, and I sat there and I went, where
is Odessa, North Dakota. Well, it turns out Odessa was
not a town. It was a township located by Devil's Lake.
So there was no town. They were proposing, let's build
a whole new town kind.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Or something along the lines of maybe District of Columbia
exactly for the national capital exactly.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
Okay, gotcha.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
So we got to remember Bismarck was fighting for what
we considered to be a much more important feat to
become the territorial capital. Well we did that. It was
the summer of eighteen eighty three, and we became the
new territorial capital. So by eighteen eighty three everything is
(12:47):
locked in. We're not even a state yet, and all
these institutions have been divvied up and given to the
different towns. So you know your statement was right there. Yep,
it's all locked in. Lo and behold we come to
the eighth eighty nine state constitution. Everything just rolls right
on over. Nothing changes. The only exception is Bismarck had
(13:09):
the fight to be the capital again. Okay, there move.
There was attempts to move the capital to Fargo, Jamestown, Carrington, Ellendale,
and Steele. So in eighteen eighty nine, we are once
again fighting to save the state capital what would become
the state.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Capit, the territorial.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
State capital. Yep. So we were constantly battling. So we
are sitting in eighteen eighty nine. Higher education is not
coming to Bismarck. We're fighting just to become the state
the territorial capital, and then the state CASP.
Speaker 4 (13:44):
That's where the focus was.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
The next opportunity education could have come to Bismarck was
in nineteen oh four. Nineteen oh four, the board of
trustees on the North Dakota Academy of Science, which ultimately
became the North Dakota Board of Higher Education. Through several steps,
they recommended that two normal schools be built in western
(14:10):
North Dakota. Well normal schools we now call teacher schools,
and their recommendation was somewhere in western North Dakota because
we lacked the teachers in western North Dakota and people
from the east didn't want to move to the west.
Speaker 4 (14:27):
So I'm guessing maybe mine not.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
And Dickinson exactly, the chairman of the committee that made
the recommendations was M. A. Bannon, who was from Grand
Forks grew up in man Not, so somebody had an
inside lead right there. Nineteen oh eight they recommend both
Dickinson and mine not. It took to nineteen ten for
(14:52):
the legislature to approve to submit to the state volders
to change the constitution to authorize wy Not, and it
took till nineteen sixteen for the state constitution to be
changed to authorize Dickinson. But they both finally got locked.
Speaker 4 (15:11):
In the wheels of government.
Speaker 3 (15:15):
So a person would have sat there and said, well,
why didn't Bismarck try to get in on that? And
the answer was there. It was only nineteen oh four
to nineteen ten. There was still some bad feelings out
there about how Bismarck became the territorial capital and then
became the state capitol. And basically we had folks like
(15:36):
the president of Ellendale Normal School was saying, Bismarck's got
the state capital, they will never get a normal school.
So there's some strong feelings out there.
Speaker 4 (15:50):
People carried grudges for a while, I think.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
So we were never there. The next round came up
in nineteen thirty one. The Nature authorized junior colleges in
towns with more than ten thousand people in population, and
then they modified that to five thousand people in population. Well,
(16:15):
guess what Bismarck got in there, Devil's Lake and Williston,
and that pretty well covers all our major universities or
colleges to this day. Yes, and that's how Bismarck got
in there. They did not fund these authorizations. They just
said you're permitted to do it. As a curiosity, I
(16:38):
sat there and thought to myself, how many towns in
North Dakota have more than five thousand people? And if
you went and looked at the twenty twenty census, only
fourteen cities of more than five thousand people. So that's
why we have what we have to this day, we're
(17:00):
up to nineteen thirty one were authorized a junior college
in Bismarck, but no money. Bismarck Boulders decided to open
Bismarck Junior College as part of the Bismarck Public school system.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
Okay, yeah, I remember in the original Bismarck High building
I think, wasn't it the upper two floors were dedicated
to the college.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
Yes, you're right, it was. It was mainly up on
the third floor.
Speaker 4 (17:31):
Okay, I knew it was one of these yeppers.
Speaker 3 (17:33):
My dad remembers referring to people referring it to as
the high school with the ash trays, because if you
think about it, in nineteen thirty nine and then World
War Two, the college was mainly geared for returning veterans
or soldiers from the war.
Speaker 4 (17:51):
Okay, like the Gi bill, kind.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Of the gi bill, and yep, they were smoking the
ash trees.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
The ash trees.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
That's where the other streets came from. Bismarck had to
go big for land up at the state Capitol grounds
to build a bigger building, and they did that in
nineteen fifty one. They built what I always called the
Highway Department building.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
And that's the one that's the closest to boulevardists. It
curves round to States to.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Go straight up Ninth Street. It's right at the end
of it.
Speaker 4 (18:25):
Okay, gotcha.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
That was in nineteen fifty one. Bismarck, the City of Bismarck,
paid for that to build that building, and that became
the new Bismarck Junior College. And then ultimately they moved
to Schaeffer Heights and lo and behold. In nineteen eighty three,
finally Bismarck Junior College was moved from the Bismarck Public
(18:51):
School budget to the North Dakota University System budget and
they funded it. So it took us almost one hundred
years to get to get a state funded It's incredible.
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Well, and then the generosity two of the Shafers, because
I believe they donated a lot of the land that
the Junior College sits on right now.
Speaker 3 (19:13):
They did, the generosity of the Shafers to do it,
and just all that work to go it is amazing.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
Hundred years, yeah, one hundred years just to drop the
drop in the bucket. Well, that just illustrates my earlier
point that the government, the wheels the government move awfully
slow sometimes, but we got it and that was the
end goal in mind. Under the break and a reminder
(19:43):
for our guests who have joined us that you're listening
to History Hot Dish on Radio Access one O two
point five f M. I'm your host, Kate Waldera, and
today our guest is Tom Atkinson, a fellow member of
the Bismarck Historical Society and a long time biz Mark resident.
And today we're talking about the early days of higher
(20:04):
education in Bismarck, North Dakota. Well, since we've talked about
the public quite a bit, let's move into the for
profit and not for profit private colleges in Bismarck.
Speaker 3 (20:17):
Okay, Well, thank you for those who remember them, the
for profit schools. We had a Bismarck Business College. There
may be some out there who remember taking typing classes there.
It opened in nineteen oh five. It was classes in
business shorthand, bookkeeping, office practices, typing. They were located in
(20:40):
the original Lambert Lamborne Hotel on the northeast corner of
six and Maine, but then they moved to five to
twenty East Main when the motel was demolished. They were
bought out in nineteen eighty three by the international by
the Interstate Business College. The Interstate Businesusiness College originally opened
(21:02):
in Fargo in nineteen twelve. They were always the main
competitor of the Bismarck Business College. They offered exactly the
same classes. They bought up the Bismarck Business College in
nineteen eighty three. They ultimately the Interstate Business College closed
in nineteen ninety eight, filed for bankruptcy and There was
(21:24):
also some students who filed fraud charges for loss money,
so that ended kind of quickly.
Speaker 4 (21:31):
Yeah, I remember that unfortunate story.
Speaker 3 (21:34):
Yeah, kind of some tough times there. The other for
profit school we had in town was Actors College. Actors
was originally founded in Fargo in nineteen o two and
then moved to Grand Forks in nineteen oh five. And
Hans Ocher from pronouncing his last name correct, actually was
(21:56):
the principle of Concordia College way back in eighteen ninety four,
so he had a formal education. They opened in Bismarck
in two thousand and three up at seventeen oh one
East Century.
Speaker 4 (22:08):
Yeah, and then they became.
Speaker 3 (22:10):
Rathmussen bought them out in two thousand and seven, and
rathmusen closed the building or closed their operations here in
Bismarck because in twenty fifteen because ninety percent of their
students were taking classes online, so they've moved everything to Minneapolis.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
So those are.
Speaker 3 (22:31):
The main the main four profit schools that were in Bismark.
The not for profit private schools, well, we had the
Mary College start in nineteen fifty nine, became the University
of Mary, and then the United Tribes Technical College, which
formed in nineteen eighty two, and the history of those
(22:53):
two colleges are very, very intriguing, and to do it right,
I would like to see if we Quinck get somebody
from those institutions to come on this show someday and
talk about the history.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
Yeah, that's excellent ideas for future programming.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
For future programming. So if they're out there listening, we're
trying to get you to come on in. Yes, let's
have you talk.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Absolutely, we would love that.
Speaker 3 (23:17):
If you look at today now the fall enrollment numbers.
Official fall enrollment numbers are not out, but as of
early guesses for the fall of twenty twenty four, there's
approximately eighty eight thousand, one hundred college students in the
Bismarck area.
Speaker 4 (23:36):
That's am amazing, really.
Speaker 3 (23:38):
A lot, give or take three eight hundred at Bismarck
State College, three thousand, seven hundred at the University of
Mary and about six hundred at United Tribes. I often
think that Bismarck sometimes just doesn't appreciate how many students
we have here from higher education.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
Well, and it's a tribute to all the hard work
in the past that got those institutions up and running
and developing as they are. I mean, we all hear
about Bismarck State College and the amazing programs that it has.
You know, the United Tribes equally so and University of Mary.
You know, they are really growing in leaps and bounds
(24:21):
doctoral degrees at the University of Mary. I think I've
heard talk of Bismarck State College perhaps becoming a four
year college, or at least developing four year programs. It's
leaps and bounds from what anybody ever dreamed they would be.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
It is. It really is amazing numbers in my mind.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Well, tell me about the university that got away.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
I'm intriguing that in eighteen ninety one, a gentleman by
the name of Henry Francis Wogan, doctor Francis Wogem, proposed
the North Dakota University in Bismarck.
Speaker 4 (25:07):
His vision.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Doctor doctor Wogum was a person who came to us
from Ohio. He had five degrees, moved here in eighteen
eighty one with his wife Abby. She only had two
degrees only for eighteen eighty one, very good only degrees.
Speaker 4 (25:31):
I can't imagine.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
They homestead at eighteen miles north of Bismarck, roughly just
off Highway eighteen oh four. His vision. He was actually
approached in eighteen ninety one by the North Dakota State
Superintendent of Schools, mister Ogden, who proposed that he be
that doctor Wogum be the leader of Maybell Normal School,
(26:00):
but he declined. His vision was North Dakota University, Bismarck.
I should mention there is a town called Wogan Sport,
which is again about eighteen miles north of Bismarck, no
longer exists. The town might have been named after him,
(26:20):
though there was another person by the name of Thomas
wogum Man who was also a big supporter of the town,
so it could have been either one of them either way.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
It's flip a coin either way.
Speaker 3 (26:34):
Doctor Wogum was the first postmaster of the town, so
you have to look for it. You can see the
road if you're really are looking hard out as you're
driving eighteen oh four heading north. So on June fifth
of eighteen ninety one, doctor Wogum incorporated North Dakota University, Bismarck.
(26:59):
It was going to have four year degrees in arts, sciences, letters, philosophy, law, medicine.
Normal and theology in eighteen ninety one. It had apparently
moved so quick, which I'd like to say, moved so quick.
Quote that an eighteen ninety one US Bureau of Education
(27:20):
report stated quote Bismarck North Dakota University two male and
two female professors in the preparatory department, one male and
one female professor in the collegiate department, and three males
in the professional development or nine professors in all, with
thirty male and twenty five female pupils in the preparatory department,
(27:43):
eight males and seven females in the professorship department, and
a library of one thousand bound volumes and fifteen hundred pamphlets. Wow,
and then you go, what we never heard of this before?
Speaker 4 (27:59):
Where did that all come from?
Speaker 3 (28:00):
It didn't exist, It was just it was in his dream.
It was in his dream. But he submitted the report
to the US Bureau of Education. They published it.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Oh my gosh, for all posterity.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
But not really, not really.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Never happened.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Okay, Oh, talk about a dream. While at least you
have to give him credit for thinking big.
Speaker 3 (28:22):
Anyway. Oh yeah, that was oh book, that is amazing.
Books started to arrive. Books and manuals started to arrive
in Bismarck, and everybody's walking around going where is this place.
I've never even found any reference to where he bought
any land. So apparently he had the dream. It just
never worked out.
Speaker 4 (28:42):
Never go well.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
Bless his heart for true absolutely.
Speaker 3 (28:46):
In eighteen ninety four, the Post Office started an investigation
for fraud. They arrest a grand jury indicted him in
August of eighteen ninety five. He had to post one
thousand dollars by well. Edward Patterson of Patterson Motel posted
the bond, So that tells you the gentleman had good.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Connection had did have good connections.
Speaker 4 (29:10):
Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (29:11):
Trial They went to trial in January of eighteen ninety
six up in Devil's Lake. No record of the trial
because they settled out of court.
Speaker 2 (29:19):
You know, if there was a case brought against him,
would that have possibly been because some people based on
that report to the higher two US Department of Education
and tried to enroll maybe sentment, sent money in and
there was no school.
Speaker 3 (29:39):
Cool, Yes, quite possibly. Haven't found reference to it, but yeah,
I suspect there must have been something like that, if
they were just for.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Having a dream and putting a false report in wouldn't
be enough to bring him to court for fraud, so
somebody must have had to lay down tuition money.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
And then there was no school, and maybe some other
sponsors or people wanting to do.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
Scholarships or who knows absolutely things like that happened.
Speaker 3 (30:07):
So anyhow, doctor Wogum and his wife did stay in
Bismarck until nineteen ten, and then they finally moved to Minneapolis.
The best way, and this is kind of a tough analysis.
Best way to describe the situation, though, came from the
July thirty first, eighteen ninety six edition of the Willston
(30:30):
Graphic newspaper. Their editorials said, quote, Henry F. Wogum of
Bismarck is sending into name into his name. I'm sorry,
Henry F. Wogum of Bismarck is sending into several counties
throughout the state written permission for people to sign requesting
his name to be placed on a state ticket as
(30:52):
a candidate for Superintendent of Public Instruction. Wogum has wheels
in his head all made of pete pewtered brass. He
is what is known as an educated fool, and is
nothing more nor less than a pacific lunatic. He is
crazy as a bed bug, no less harmless. In about
(31:17):
several years ago, imagined that he was the founder and
president of the North Dakota University, an institution that never
had an existence and since circular throughout the country, soliciting
subscriptions of money for the institution and books and magazines
for the library. The United States authorities got onto the
fraud and he was indicted for using the mail for
(31:38):
illegal purposes. Poor fellow, he is more to be pitied
than despised.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Oh they didn't, No, they didn't mince words at all. Well,
I can't fault him for having a dream, but he
kind of went about it backwards.
Speaker 3 (31:55):
So that is our university that got away.
Speaker 4 (31:58):
Yes, Well, kind of backing up up a little bit.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
I'm curious about the University of North Dakota versus NDSU,
And I know there's always been a rivalry between the
two institutions. So one of the things is which one
came first, the University of North Dakota or the North
Dakota State University.
Speaker 3 (32:20):
The University of North Dakota would have been authorized in
eighteen eighty three, no funding, but they were authorized North
Dakota State University since they were a land grant university,
that basically meant well, okay, since North Dacost State University
was a land grant university, they were not authorized till
(32:43):
eighteen eighty nine. The reason for that is the land
grant program was run through the United States federal government.
They would ought they would pay for so much land
and for the development of the university, so did not
start until eighteen eighty nine. You and D authorized, but
(33:05):
and funded in eighteen eighty three.
Speaker 2 (33:07):
Okay, interesting, Yeah, I thought it was University of North Dakota.
Speaker 4 (33:12):
That came first on that.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
And then I know too some famous people have come
through the our alumni of both of those institutions.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
I believe.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
With UND it would have been Phil Jackson, I believe
was a famous alumni. One of our rough Rider Award winners,
Arabella Thompson, I think was a UND And then as
far as Andy su goes, we've got our current governor
burgham we Link Arthur Link was an alumni. And then
(33:49):
of course anybody that follows football, Carson Wentz was an alumni.
So we've had some pretty notable people that have walked
the halls of those two institutions.
Speaker 4 (33:59):
I would agree absolutely well.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
To close out the program, Tom, where can our audience
find out more information about the history of higher education
in Bismarck.
Speaker 3 (34:11):
If anybody has questions, all they need to do is
go to the Bismarck Historical Society web page and drop
in a question and I review them. I review all
the questions for that web page and I'll gladly answer anything.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah, I believe it's info at Bismarckhistory dot org.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
Correct. And if there are students out there who would
like to do who are looking for something to do
because they need to work on a master's degree or
a paper.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Or a good topic for like you say, history paper, a.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
History paper, I'll gladly give them what information I can
and send them where what information I was able to find.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Well, thanks again, Tom for coming in visiting with us
again and sharing your background on the history of higher education.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
It's been fascinating. Thank you, Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (34:59):
Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Thank you for listening to history hot dish.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
If you like what you heard.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
The Bismarck Historical Society hosts programs and events throughout the year.
We welcome all those with an interest in local history
to join us. For more information about programs or membership,
visit our website Bismarkhistory dot org, or find us on Facebook.
You can find History Hot Dish on one o two
point five FM, Radioaccess dot org, and anywhere you find
great podcasts. History Hot Dish is produced by the Bismarck
(35:30):
Historical Society in partnership with Dakota Media Access
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