March 18, 2025 • 32 mins
Kate Waldera brings on Matt Fern to discuss the Wachter family episode of Prairie Pioneers.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome to History Hot Dish, a casual conversation about the
historic people and events that give Bismarket's unique flavor. History
Hot Dish is brought to you by the Bismarck Historical Society,
a local nonprofit whose mission is to learn, preserve, and
promote the history of Bismarck. Sit back, turn up the
volume and enjoy another helping of History Hot Dish.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome to another episode of History Hot Dish. I'm your
host Kate Waldera, a member of the Bismarck Historical Society's
Board of Directors. Today's episode is a special version of
History Hot Dish where we feature another important project of
the Bismarck Historical Society, the Prairie Pioneers Early Families of
(00:44):
Bismarck Programs. The Prairie Pioneers Project is a video collection
of twenty interviews with current family members from some of
Bismarck's early and influential families and residents. The Prairie Pioneer's
Early Family Only's a Bismarck project was funded through a
donation by Chad and Stacy Walker of Bismarck, a Cultural
(01:07):
Heritage grant through the State Historical Society of North Dakota
and donations from local history enthusiasts. The project was done
in collaboration with Matt Fern and his team at the
Creative Treatment. Matt is joining me today in the studio
to help bring you another tasty helping of history hot dish,
(01:29):
and of course, another wonderful partner in this project has
been the Dakota Media Access, where you can find each
of The Prairie Pioneer's original ten episodes, along with ten
new families and their stories of Bismarck that began airing
on Community Access in December. Matt, thank you for joining
(01:49):
me today to share some of your work with our audience.
For your listeners, please take a moment to introduce yourself
from the role that you played in this wonderful collection
of interviews and videos.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Thanks for having me, Kate. I'm Matt Fern. I'm born
and raised here in Bismarck. It's my favorite city in
the whole world, and I've been running the Creative Treatment
for about fifteen years here in Bismarck. We do a
lot of ads across the state and across the country,
as well as podcasts and documentaries. My main my main
(02:24):
passion has always been telling the stories of North Dakota.
I did a docuseries called Daily to Codin that kind
of started out my whole my whole filmmaking career, and
so when the opportunity to do Prey Pioneers came up,
I jumped on it. A lot of these names Walked
or Woodman, see, they have been around, you know, the
(02:46):
Bismarck community, my whole life, and so to put a
face to the name, to humanize and to actually hear
the story behind those names was really exciting, and so
I'm very grateful to be part of the project. And
it wasn't just me. I have a great team working
with me as well as the Bismarck Historical Society and
Dakota Media Access. But this has been just a really
(03:09):
awesome project where the Bismarck community has come together and
some of the histories.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Of these families have just been very unique, very interesting,
and as always, everyone learns a lot of about the
families and their important part that they played. Today's episode
of History Hot Dish will focus on the Walker family,
one of the earliest and most successful families in Bismarck's history.
(03:39):
Real Hill's Stories from Lance and Gail Walkter, their son Chad,
and Harley Swinson, a retired engineer who worked with the
Walkder family for decades on various development projects, including the
development A Bunch of self, Bismarck, Kirkwood Mall, and other
landmark properties on Matt, can you relate any of your
(04:03):
favorite tidbits from this set of interviews with the Walker family.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Well, this is a very special episode because this episode
kind of kicked off this whole project, The Prey Pioneers
project started with a conversation between Chad Walker and the
president at the time of Bismarck Historical Society, Marilyn Snyder,
and they kind of came up with this whole show
(04:28):
from that conversation, and so this was kind of considered
the pilot episode of They were the first family we
recorded with, the first episode we edited together and tried
putting together. So it's a really special episode, I think
because it kind of not only told the story of
the Walker family, which I think is very important, but
opened up the door to tell so many other stories
(04:49):
of families here in Bismarck. Regarding this episode beyond being
the pilot, this one was really hard to cut because
the Walkers have had such a huge and on the
Bismarck community, from just even starting selling ice, you know,
over one hundred years ago, to being very vital in
(05:12):
the Cirked Mall South Bismarck, even starting the bank Kirk
would Bacon Trust. It was very difficult to knock this
down to about thirty minutes because the Walktors had such
a big impact. The biggest kind of takeaway I took
from it was just how much they've changed the community.
It seems like there's so many pieces of Bismarck that
(05:35):
are here because of the Walkers and their choice to
give back to the community. And I think that is
a really big lesson of so many times people you know,
donate or give time or give service and they wonder
what is the impact. And the Walkers, I think, are
a very great example of what one family's generosity, one
(05:57):
family's commitment to their community can really do, because from schools,
to rec centers to I mean just so many parts
that are so vital to Bismarck. He came from their
their generosity to give back. And then the other thing
I want to say about this episode is Harley Swinson
was could have been his own episode. Harley Swinson was
(06:19):
an engineer that worked with the Walker family and so
many stories that couldn't even make it into the episode.
He pretty much named most of the streets in Bismarck,
and that was really interesting hearing how we come up
with those different street names and such an interesting character,
really really great guy, and I think down the line
(06:43):
we got to do something on the Swinson family for sure.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Well, thank you so much for your insight on the
Walker Family episode, and listeners enjoy the Prairie Pioneers Walker
Family episode.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
Mh that locked your family has been had the largest
impact of any family in my lifetime. And I knew
T Clem Casey, and I knew a lot of the
other developers in Bismarck, a lot of them. They were
successful because they had the resources and the time, and
the ability and the desire.
Speaker 6 (08:03):
The Wuchtor family arrived in Bismarck in eighteen seventy six
and started cutting ice from the Missouri River. The business
soon grew and expanded into warehouse storage as well as
coal and ice hauling. The Doctors also ventured into farming
and ranching in the early nineteen twenties, owning nearly thirty
(08:23):
thousand acres north of Mandan. In the nineteen fifties, the
family began to develop land in South Bismarck. Over the years,
the Doctors have donated or sold at reduced costs land
to build elementary and middle schools and multiple community parks
and public facilities.
Speaker 7 (08:48):
My great great grandfather, Gottlieb Charles Walker, came to the
United States when he was sixteen years old. He came
from Bernstein, Germany, which was located near Stuttgart, and originally
settled in Philadelphia as a butcher. He was in Philadelphia
for a very short period of time and then decided
to come up to North Dakota.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
They harvested ice off the river and put it in
an ice house and delivered ice to the families in
Bismarck before they had electric refrigerators, when they had ice boxes.
Speaker 7 (09:20):
He would cut enough ice to be able to get
through the summertime too, and basically was the city of
Bismarck's main provider of ice. The family also was involved
in delivering coal, and so we delivered coal to a
lot of houses back in the day as well.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
My grandfather was Paul A Walktor and his wife was Edna,
and I believe he passed away when I was nine,
and I did not know him very well because he
worked hard, he socialized and he tried all the time.
(10:03):
I was down at the warehouse on Fifth in Front
and I was probably seven eight years old, and I
was going to the cash drawer looking at the pennies.
My grandfather saw it and came along and slammed the
(10:23):
drawer on my fingers and said I had no business
being in there looking at pennies for penny collection.
Speaker 7 (10:35):
I would say that probably the most visionary family member
that we have would be my grandfather, Paul Henry Walked.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Dad was a workaholic. He would he'd be in bed
by eight and he would get up at five am.
I know that when I stayed with him. Sometimes I
would go to work with him and he'd get me
up at five point fifteen, and that was early, and
(11:06):
I was hard to get up. But his cure was
he'd come in and throw a glass of water on
my face. He picked me up after school during the week,
and on Fridays when I stayed with him, he would
go to the Patterson Hotel in order a big helping
of shrimp and French fries and bring it home for dinner.
Speaker 7 (11:34):
My Grandma Charlotte, I have nothing but the fondest memories
of her, And she was just a fantastic woman. And
I would spend almost every weekend with my grandma her
house on Hannafin across from Tumblry golf Course, and in
a order time I would go sledding down the hill.
But I have nothing but just the greatest memories spending
(11:55):
time with my Grandma Charlotte.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
She was a very refined person. She graduated from Kuncordia.
She had a music major, and she would play for
the North Dakota pageants. I believe that bell Methus and
she would sing sometimes on the radio.
Speaker 8 (12:20):
Well back in our days, everybody would drag me, and
of course the place to end up would be the
Big Boy parking lot. And I loved I love sports cards,
and I really did like the car that he had. Yeah, yeah,
the car. And then so we parked in the parking lot.
(12:43):
I was with my two best friends and he parked
next to us, and I striked up a conversation, and
I don't know, he came over and thought he could
try to give me a kiss and he found out
it that wasn't going to work. So I stopped him.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
That's what did you say?
Speaker 8 (13:05):
I think he was in shot?
Speaker 4 (13:07):
I was, yeah, so you ran away. No, I didn't
run away. I'm the salesperson. I wouldn't run away.
Speaker 7 (13:18):
I actually bought the Big Boy about five years ago
from Stanton Bonnie Rothenburger, and you know, so I went
to the Big Boy. My earliest memory of going to
the Big Boy was with my grandma Charlotte, my dad's mom, Charlotte,
and she would all always take me there to get
pizza burgers and have hot and tots and and so.
Then growing up and you know, dragging man, hanging out
a man with all the other kids. I would go
(13:39):
through the Big Boy. And one day I was going
through the Big Boy and Stan Rothenberger was working at
the window and I turned to him and said, hey,
if you ever decide to sell this place, make sure
you give me a call. And he handed me my
bag and says, get the hell out of here, kid. So,
you know interesting, He called me five years ago and said, hey,
(14:00):
you know, do you remember that conversation we had when
you were in high school and coming through and said,
if I ever decided I wanted to sell a place someday, Well,
I want to sell it. I'm ready to retire. I've
got three other people that want to buy it, but
they want to totally change it. And I know that
you've been coming to the Big Boy your whole life.
(14:20):
He knew that my parents had met in the parking lot,
he knew how special the Big Boy was to me
and to my family, and so he kind of he
picked me to buy that. So it was definitely an
acquisition that I wanted to do. And honestly, out of
all the businesses that our families involved in the Big Boys,
my favorite business.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
A reminder for our guests that have just joined us,
you're listening to a special serving of History Hot Dish
on Radio Access one oh two point five FM. I'm
your host, Kate Waldera and today Matt Fern with the
Creative Treatment, has joined me in the studio to discuss
the Bismarck Historical Society's Prairie Pioneer programs that Matt and
(15:00):
his team helped create. Each episode has been adapted as
an audio broadcast to help the Bismarck Historical Society fulfill
its mission to learn preserve and promote Bismarck's rich history.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
So anyway, I went to BSc after college, I want
a semester. I didn't like it, so I quit school.
My dad said, no problem. So he said I had
to work, which I knew, and he threw me up
on a scraper. And the job that I was on
(15:38):
is the Walkers had gotten the contract for the Fish
Greek Dam and we had to do the dirt work.
And I knew after that summer I wanted to go
back to school because there was a better life than that.
Speaker 7 (15:55):
We did a lot of earthwork, and so we had
gotten word of that going to be these dams that
were built, and that there would be a dam that
would be built at Garrison, and so knowing that when
that dam would be built, South Bismarck would not flood anymore,
so my family acquired as much land as they could
in South Bismarck, knowing that you know that at some
(16:17):
point in time it would become very valuable. And then
our family was actually one of the subcontractors that were
involved in the Fort Peck Dam and the Garrison Dam
during the construction of it as well.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
I remember that we used to buy sand and gravel.
First of all, we dug the lake and Dakota's hand
would sell writing mix. And I think during the time
the walks on it that that had poured probably close
(16:48):
to a million and a half yards. And we had
a construction phase of it, and that was putting in basements,
and I believe we came close to putting in ten
thousand basements in Bismarck Mandad.
Speaker 7 (17:12):
One of the last floods in Sealth Bismark was in
nineteen fifty two after the NAM was built, and that
kind of paved the way to be able to develop
self business work, to have the civic center, to be
able to build a shopping center, and all the houses
and everything that you see down there today. So after
that happened, our family took more of an active interest
(17:33):
in the rural state. That's kind of what jump started
the rural state development part of our business that we
got into.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
Paul initially started thinking that, you know, here, we are
right next to main Street, we should start developing some
of this property. Matter of fact, when I started my business,
I rented my office space from Paul Locker, and that
was in the southeast corner of Fifth and Maine and
(18:03):
a building that they owned.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
It used to be.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
The upstairs was offices and the downstairs was an auto dealership.
And so when I started my business, as I said,
they were my best client and all was.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
One of my best friends. Well, my dad was a visionary,
and I do know that before South Bismarck was developed,
he had a model done of the lands in self
Bismarck and how it would look, and he had the
(18:43):
model built and he put it up for a display
at the airport. And we pretty much had followed that model,
and we kept certain parcels out for the walk to
family to go ahead and build on, like the office tower,
(19:05):
Kirkwood Motor in Expressway. But we also knew that we
had to the community was good to us, and we
wanted to be good to the community, so we would
donate like land for elementary school, land for the walk
to Junior high land for the Bismarck Police station that
(19:31):
was donated. We set side land after the Civic center
was built in South Bismarck that they could use the
land on north side of the shopping center for additional parking.
Speaker 5 (19:47):
It's probably not known, you wouldn't know it now, but
Kirkwood Plaza is. The floor elevation at Kirkwood Plaza is
seven feet higher than the land was there prior when
it was a few They also owned the Klota Sand
and Gravel which was about two miles south, and the
(20:09):
spoil piles from the gravel pit area and a lot
of dirt from Cottonwood Lake which was dredged. All of
that fill was they bought a laternal scraper type thing
it self propelled, you know, just see on highway projects nowadays.
The Walker family bought that laterno and hired Amand to
(20:33):
run it, and they ran it twenty four to seven
year round hauling in dirt. That was, they brought in
thousands and thousands and thousands of yards of phil to
raise that land where Kirkwood Plaza is, and so it went.
(20:54):
The floor elevation is seven feet higher than with the
land started out with, and the land around it was
also had to be raised of course for the parking lots.
Speaker 6 (21:05):
Helped tell the stories of Bismarck's past and become a
financial sponsor of this program. Contact info at Bismarckistory dot
org to learn more.
Speaker 7 (21:19):
My cousin's side of the family took care of more
of the ranching and farming operations, and my side of
the family, the poll August Walker side of the family
was more involved in the businesses, and the Eugene Walker
side of the families was more involved in farming and ranching.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
I started writing out at the ranch when I was ten.
Shortly after I turned fourteen, I was told not to
go to the ranch anymore because the walk Through Real
Estate Trust the Bismarcker was run by our side of
(22:01):
the family and the ranch was run by the other
side of the family. And I believe at that time
the ranch was around twenty eight thousand acres and ran
approximately two thousand, had a cattle and a lot of
corner of horses.
Speaker 7 (22:22):
From what I can tell, we had one hundred and
sixty horses, and when we got into the cattle business
we had four thousand had a cattle, and so that
you know, a lot of the cattle was down where
the Bismarck Civic Center is today.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
I remember my dad deciding back in the mid sixties
to build the Kirkwood Shopping Center. I do remember that
Bismarck Tribune, which was run and owned by Glenn Sarley,
(22:59):
came Mountain did a story about it and said that
my dad's idea of building a shopping center was Walter's folly.
But I do know that we unloaded paper for the
Bismer Tribune and kept it in the warehouse and hauled it.
(23:21):
But after that story came out, we didn't do it anymore.
You know, the mall.
Speaker 7 (23:27):
It was a really big project. I know that. I
think that it stressed my grandpa, my grandpa Paul H.
Walk a lot. You know, just think about it. I mean,
you're building this huge shopping facility in an area that
used to flood. You don't have any tenants lined up.
(23:47):
I mean, I'm sure it was a pretty stressful project
for somebody to do.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
He hired a consultant to help him lease space in
this shopping center that he was conceiving, and the three
of us actually went down to Minneapolis to talk to
potential tenants and convinced them that this was going to
(24:16):
be a thriving part of Bismarck. It's right in the
center of Bismarck, if you will at the time, and
it's bound to succeed, you better get in on the
ground floor. And so he was able to entice Woolworth's
and Pennies and Wards and Herberger's. I believe that was
(24:39):
the first anchors, and then the connecting hallways were filled
with minor tenants.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Toughest party hadn't building the shopping centers when the nations
went on strike. Of course, that was over and above
the contract, and if I remember correctly, it cost the
walktors in an additional couple hundred thousand dollars to get
the brick laid.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
The name Kirkwood came from that was part of the
sales process of getting the Woolworth Company to be an
anchor for them all. The president of Woolworth at the
time's name was Kirkwood, and so they named them all
after him to get him to commit to bringing a
(25:34):
large store to Bismarck.
Speaker 7 (25:37):
Unfortunately, my Grandpa Paul Walker passed away in his mid fifties,
and you know, passing away at such an early age,
I think there was a lot of potential that we
didn't get to see for him not being able to
live longer.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
I became a trustee in nineteen seventy three one Mica
there passed away as one and four trustees. The trustees
were split between two on the other side of the family,
and my brother and I on our side of the family.
(26:15):
I believe the trust was created in nineteen fifty two
and was set to expire thirty years after the death
of the last grandson living on that date.
Speaker 7 (26:29):
All of the different various companies that the Walker family
owned were actually owned by the trust, and then all
the income would flow into the trust and it would
be distributed to the beneficiaries beneficiaries probably just a fancy
term for shareholders, So shareholders beneficiaries when it comes to
a trust. And so instead of having a president, vice president, secretary,
(26:53):
and treasure they had trustees. And the way that the
trust was set up was is that there always had
to be well. First of all, there was a total
of four trustees, but two trustees had to come from
one side of the family and two trustees had to
come from the other side of the family. So there
was always that balance of power in the trust.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
Working for the trust, it was interesting. They owned and
controlled at least eighteen companies, employed around five hundred and
fifty people directly and twelve hundred indirectly, and they owned
everything from liquor stores to warehousing to a trucking corporation,
(27:36):
hardware store, a couple of clothing stores, restaurants, a couple hotels,
Sign and Gravel, Operation Ready Mix Operation Bank. Yeah, Kirkwood Bank.
Speaker 7 (27:55):
You know, one of the reasons why Kirkwood mak was
started was we did a lot of business with a
lot of different companies, and so you know, we thought, well,
I mean, here's we can pick up their banking business
as well. Plus we had a lot of employees. So
all the employees that we had, we had over six
hundred employees banked at the Bank of kirkked Plaza. Not
to mention the fact that there were a few banks
(28:17):
that were hesitant about financing projects in South Bismarck, So
you know, starting a bank in self Bismarck that would
finance Self Bismark projects just was a natural.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Anyway, the trust split up, I think it was in
eighty four or eighty five.
Speaker 7 (28:33):
You know, my family had gone through quite a few
different transitions, probably starting in nineteen eighty two, all the
way up until probably about nineteen ninety four. You know,
our family was starting to split their different companies that
they owned together and kind of going their separate ways.
And so I worked for Dakota sant and Gravel company,
and I kind of always wanted to go into the
(28:54):
banking business. My heart was always set on the Pirkuld Bank,
which my family started and own. That was what I
wanted to do. But my family sold out of that
bank in nineteen ninety two, and so I realized that
I needed to find something else different to do. My
dad encouraged me to get involved in real estate development,
so I transitioned into the real estate development side of
(29:18):
the family business. You know, my senior year in high school,
I learned about annuities, I learned about insurance, life insurance,
learned about everything imaginable. So when I came out of
high school, I had a pretty incredible competitive advantage over anybody.
So actually going to college, I just wasn't really interested.
(29:41):
I was interested in making money and I was interested
in carrying on the family name and working in the
family business.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Well, what makes you stay air is your businesses. And
Besmark is a good place because we loved the community.
We wanted to be a part of it. The community,
and it's always thought that if you're treated right, to
(30:11):
give back to it.
Speaker 5 (30:12):
Their impact has been probably more than anyone in my lifetime,
has been the primary that Walker family has been had
the largest impact of any family in my lifetime. And
I knew T clum Casey, and I knew a lot
of the other developers in Bismarck, a lot of them.
(30:33):
We did work for almost all of them. But the
Walker family, first of all, started out with more resources,
more land, more big ideas, and so they were successful
because they had the resources and the time and the
(30:53):
ability and the desire, and so they've done extremely well.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
This marks my home.
Speaker 8 (31:02):
It's where my family is, and that's where I want
to be.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
So that's important and because of me, well, of course
you Okay.
Speaker 7 (31:14):
So when people hear the name walkd in Bismarck, it's
my hope that people will think about the long history
that we have here in the community, and I hope
that people really think that we've had the community's best
interest at heart. And it's been an absolute pleasure to
live in this community and raise children here. And I
(31:36):
can't think of a better place to call home than Bismarck.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Matt, thank you again for joining me today. Please tell
our audience where they can find the video versions of
each of the Prairie Pioneer programs.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Yeah, everyone can. The best place to go is going
to be Bismarkhistory dot org, the Bismark Historical Society's website.
There you'll have a link to the YouTube page, which
is Bismarck Historical Society, and there you can watch all
the past episodes of Prey Pioneers as well as other
programs produced by the Bismarck Historical Society.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Thank you for listening to History Hot Dish if you
like what you heard. The Bismark Historical Society hosts programs
and events throughout the year. We welcome all those with
an interest in local history to join us. For more
information about programs or membership, visit our website Bismarkhistory dot
org or find us on Facebook. You can find History
Hot Dish on one o two point five FM, Radioaccess
(32:43):
dot org at anywhere you find great podcasts. History Hot
Dish is produced by the Bismark Historical Society and partnership
with Dakoda Media Access.
Welcome to History Hot Dish, a casual conversation about the
historic people and events that give Bismarket's unique flavor. History
Hot Dish is brought to you by the Bismarck Historical Society,
a local nonprofit whose mission is to learn, preserve, and
promote the history of Bismarck. Sit back, turn up the
volume and enjoy another helping of History Hot Dish.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Welcome to another episode of History Hot Dish. I'm your
host Kate Waldera, a member of the Bismarck Historical Society's
Board of Directors. Today's episode is a special version of
History Hot Dish where we feature another important project of
the Bismarck Historical Society, the Prairie Pioneers Early Families of
(00:44):
Bismarck Programs. The Prairie Pioneers Project is a video collection
of twenty interviews with current family members from some of
Bismarck's early and influential families and residents. The Prairie Pioneer's
Early Family Only's a Bismarck project was funded through a
donation by Chad and Stacy Walker of Bismarck, a Cultural
(01:07):
Heritage grant through the State Historical Society of North Dakota
and donations from local history enthusiasts. The project was done
in collaboration with Matt Fern and his team at the
Creative Treatment. Matt is joining me today in the studio
to help bring you another tasty helping of history hot dish,
(01:29):
and of course, another wonderful partner in this project has
been the Dakota Media Access, where you can find each
of The Prairie Pioneer's original ten episodes, along with ten
new families and their stories of Bismarck that began airing
on Community Access in December. Matt, thank you for joining
(01:49):
me today to share some of your work with our audience.
For your listeners, please take a moment to introduce yourself
from the role that you played in this wonderful collection
of interviews and videos.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
Thanks for having me, Kate. I'm Matt Fern. I'm born
and raised here in Bismarck. It's my favorite city in
the whole world, and I've been running the Creative Treatment
for about fifteen years here in Bismarck. We do a
lot of ads across the state and across the country,
as well as podcasts and documentaries. My main my main
(02:24):
passion has always been telling the stories of North Dakota.
I did a docuseries called Daily to Codin that kind
of started out my whole my whole filmmaking career, and
so when the opportunity to do Prey Pioneers came up,
I jumped on it. A lot of these names Walked
or Woodman, see, they have been around, you know, the
(02:46):
Bismarck community, my whole life, and so to put a
face to the name, to humanize and to actually hear
the story behind those names was really exciting, and so
I'm very grateful to be part of the project. And
it wasn't just me. I have a great team working
with me as well as the Bismarck Historical Society and
Dakota Media Access. But this has been just a really
(03:09):
awesome project where the Bismarck community has come together and
some of the histories.
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Of these families have just been very unique, very interesting,
and as always, everyone learns a lot of about the
families and their important part that they played. Today's episode
of History Hot Dish will focus on the Walker family,
one of the earliest and most successful families in Bismarck's history.
(03:39):
Real Hill's Stories from Lance and Gail Walkter, their son Chad,
and Harley Swinson, a retired engineer who worked with the
Walkder family for decades on various development projects, including the
development A Bunch of self, Bismarck, Kirkwood Mall, and other
landmark properties on Matt, can you relate any of your
(04:03):
favorite tidbits from this set of interviews with the Walker family.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Well, this is a very special episode because this episode
kind of kicked off this whole project, The Prey Pioneers
project started with a conversation between Chad Walker and the
president at the time of Bismarck Historical Society, Marilyn Snyder,
and they kind of came up with this whole show
(04:28):
from that conversation, and so this was kind of considered
the pilot episode of They were the first family we
recorded with, the first episode we edited together and tried
putting together. So it's a really special episode, I think
because it kind of not only told the story of
the Walker family, which I think is very important, but
opened up the door to tell so many other stories
(04:49):
of families here in Bismarck. Regarding this episode beyond being
the pilot, this one was really hard to cut because
the Walkers have had such a huge and on the
Bismarck community, from just even starting selling ice, you know,
over one hundred years ago, to being very vital in
(05:12):
the Cirked Mall South Bismarck, even starting the bank Kirk
would Bacon Trust. It was very difficult to knock this
down to about thirty minutes because the Walktors had such
a big impact. The biggest kind of takeaway I took
from it was just how much they've changed the community.
It seems like there's so many pieces of Bismarck that
(05:35):
are here because of the Walkers and their choice to
give back to the community. And I think that is
a really big lesson of so many times people you know,
donate or give time or give service and they wonder
what is the impact. And the Walkers, I think, are
a very great example of what one family's generosity, one
(05:57):
family's commitment to their community can really do, because from schools,
to rec centers to I mean just so many parts
that are so vital to Bismarck. He came from their
their generosity to give back. And then the other thing
I want to say about this episode is Harley Swinson
was could have been his own episode. Harley Swinson was
(06:19):
an engineer that worked with the Walker family and so
many stories that couldn't even make it into the episode.
He pretty much named most of the streets in Bismarck,
and that was really interesting hearing how we come up
with those different street names and such an interesting character,
really really great guy, and I think down the line
(06:43):
we got to do something on the Swinson family for sure.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:48):
Well, thank you so much for your insight on the
Walker Family episode, and listeners enjoy the Prairie Pioneers Walker
Family episode.
Speaker 5 (07:00):
Mh that locked your family has been had the largest
impact of any family in my lifetime. And I knew
T Clem Casey, and I knew a lot of the
other developers in Bismarck, a lot of them. They were
successful because they had the resources and the time, and
the ability and the desire.
Speaker 6 (08:03):
The Wuchtor family arrived in Bismarck in eighteen seventy six
and started cutting ice from the Missouri River. The business
soon grew and expanded into warehouse storage as well as
coal and ice hauling. The Doctors also ventured into farming
and ranching in the early nineteen twenties, owning nearly thirty
(08:23):
thousand acres north of Mandan. In the nineteen fifties, the
family began to develop land in South Bismarck. Over the years,
the Doctors have donated or sold at reduced costs land
to build elementary and middle schools and multiple community parks
and public facilities.
Speaker 7 (08:48):
My great great grandfather, Gottlieb Charles Walker, came to the
United States when he was sixteen years old. He came
from Bernstein, Germany, which was located near Stuttgart, and originally
settled in Philadelphia as a butcher. He was in Philadelphia
for a very short period of time and then decided
to come up to North Dakota.
Speaker 5 (09:08):
They harvested ice off the river and put it in
an ice house and delivered ice to the families in
Bismarck before they had electric refrigerators, when they had ice boxes.
Speaker 7 (09:20):
He would cut enough ice to be able to get
through the summertime too, and basically was the city of
Bismarck's main provider of ice. The family also was involved
in delivering coal, and so we delivered coal to a
lot of houses back in the day as well.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
My grandfather was Paul A Walktor and his wife was Edna,
and I believe he passed away when I was nine,
and I did not know him very well because he
worked hard, he socialized and he tried all the time.
(10:03):
I was down at the warehouse on Fifth in Front
and I was probably seven eight years old, and I
was going to the cash drawer looking at the pennies.
My grandfather saw it and came along and slammed the
(10:23):
drawer on my fingers and said I had no business
being in there looking at pennies for penny collection.
Speaker 7 (10:35):
I would say that probably the most visionary family member
that we have would be my grandfather, Paul Henry Walked.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Dad was a workaholic. He would he'd be in bed
by eight and he would get up at five am.
I know that when I stayed with him. Sometimes I
would go to work with him and he'd get me
up at five point fifteen, and that was early, and
(11:06):
I was hard to get up. But his cure was
he'd come in and throw a glass of water on
my face. He picked me up after school during the week,
and on Fridays when I stayed with him, he would
go to the Patterson Hotel in order a big helping
of shrimp and French fries and bring it home for dinner.
Speaker 7 (11:34):
My Grandma Charlotte, I have nothing but the fondest memories
of her, And she was just a fantastic woman. And
I would spend almost every weekend with my grandma her
house on Hannafin across from Tumblry golf Course, and in
a order time I would go sledding down the hill.
But I have nothing but just the greatest memories spending
(11:55):
time with my Grandma Charlotte.
Speaker 4 (11:57):
She was a very refined person. She graduated from Kuncordia.
She had a music major, and she would play for
the North Dakota pageants. I believe that bell Methus and
she would sing sometimes on the radio.
Speaker 8 (12:20):
Well back in our days, everybody would drag me, and
of course the place to end up would be the
Big Boy parking lot. And I loved I love sports cards,
and I really did like the car that he had. Yeah, yeah,
the car. And then so we parked in the parking lot.
(12:43):
I was with my two best friends and he parked
next to us, and I striked up a conversation, and
I don't know, he came over and thought he could
try to give me a kiss and he found out
it that wasn't going to work. So I stopped him.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
That's what did you say?
Speaker 8 (13:05):
I think he was in shot?
Speaker 4 (13:07):
I was, yeah, so you ran away. No, I didn't
run away. I'm the salesperson. I wouldn't run away.
Speaker 7 (13:18):
I actually bought the Big Boy about five years ago
from Stanton Bonnie Rothenburger, and you know, so I went
to the Big Boy. My earliest memory of going to
the Big Boy was with my grandma Charlotte, my dad's mom, Charlotte,
and she would all always take me there to get
pizza burgers and have hot and tots and and so.
Then growing up and you know, dragging man, hanging out
a man with all the other kids. I would go
(13:39):
through the Big Boy. And one day I was going
through the Big Boy and Stan Rothenberger was working at
the window and I turned to him and said, hey,
if you ever decide to sell this place, make sure
you give me a call. And he handed me my
bag and says, get the hell out of here, kid. So,
you know interesting, He called me five years ago and said, hey,
(14:00):
you know, do you remember that conversation we had when
you were in high school and coming through and said,
if I ever decided I wanted to sell a place someday, Well,
I want to sell it. I'm ready to retire. I've
got three other people that want to buy it, but
they want to totally change it. And I know that
you've been coming to the Big Boy your whole life.
(14:20):
He knew that my parents had met in the parking lot,
he knew how special the Big Boy was to me
and to my family, and so he kind of he
picked me to buy that. So it was definitely an
acquisition that I wanted to do. And honestly, out of
all the businesses that our families involved in the Big Boys,
my favorite business.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
A reminder for our guests that have just joined us,
you're listening to a special serving of History Hot Dish
on Radio Access one oh two point five FM. I'm
your host, Kate Waldera and today Matt Fern with the
Creative Treatment, has joined me in the studio to discuss
the Bismarck Historical Society's Prairie Pioneer programs that Matt and
(15:00):
his team helped create. Each episode has been adapted as
an audio broadcast to help the Bismarck Historical Society fulfill
its mission to learn preserve and promote Bismarck's rich history.
Speaker 4 (15:16):
So anyway, I went to BSc after college, I want
a semester. I didn't like it, so I quit school.
My dad said, no problem. So he said I had
to work, which I knew, and he threw me up
on a scraper. And the job that I was on
(15:38):
is the Walkers had gotten the contract for the Fish
Greek Dam and we had to do the dirt work.
And I knew after that summer I wanted to go
back to school because there was a better life than that.
Speaker 7 (15:55):
We did a lot of earthwork, and so we had
gotten word of that going to be these dams that
were built, and that there would be a dam that
would be built at Garrison, and so knowing that when
that dam would be built, South Bismarck would not flood anymore,
so my family acquired as much land as they could
in South Bismarck, knowing that you know that at some
(16:17):
point in time it would become very valuable. And then
our family was actually one of the subcontractors that were
involved in the Fort Peck Dam and the Garrison Dam
during the construction of it as well.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
I remember that we used to buy sand and gravel.
First of all, we dug the lake and Dakota's hand
would sell writing mix. And I think during the time
the walks on it that that had poured probably close
(16:48):
to a million and a half yards. And we had
a construction phase of it, and that was putting in basements,
and I believe we came close to putting in ten
thousand basements in Bismarck Mandad.
Speaker 7 (17:12):
One of the last floods in Sealth Bismark was in
nineteen fifty two after the NAM was built, and that
kind of paved the way to be able to develop
self business work, to have the civic center, to be
able to build a shopping center, and all the houses
and everything that you see down there today. So after
that happened, our family took more of an active interest
(17:33):
in the rural state. That's kind of what jump started
the rural state development part of our business that we
got into.
Speaker 5 (17:41):
Paul initially started thinking that, you know, here, we are
right next to main Street, we should start developing some
of this property. Matter of fact, when I started my business,
I rented my office space from Paul Locker, and that
was in the southeast corner of Fifth and Maine and
(18:03):
a building that they owned.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
It used to be.
Speaker 5 (18:07):
The upstairs was offices and the downstairs was an auto dealership.
And so when I started my business, as I said,
they were my best client and all was.
Speaker 4 (18:22):
One of my best friends. Well, my dad was a visionary,
and I do know that before South Bismarck was developed,
he had a model done of the lands in self
Bismarck and how it would look, and he had the
(18:43):
model built and he put it up for a display
at the airport. And we pretty much had followed that model,
and we kept certain parcels out for the walk to
family to go ahead and build on, like the office tower,
(19:05):
Kirkwood Motor in Expressway. But we also knew that we
had to the community was good to us, and we
wanted to be good to the community, so we would
donate like land for elementary school, land for the walk
to Junior high land for the Bismarck Police station that
(19:31):
was donated. We set side land after the Civic center
was built in South Bismarck that they could use the
land on north side of the shopping center for additional parking.
Speaker 5 (19:47):
It's probably not known, you wouldn't know it now, but
Kirkwood Plaza is. The floor elevation at Kirkwood Plaza is
seven feet higher than the land was there prior when
it was a few They also owned the Klota Sand
and Gravel which was about two miles south, and the
(20:09):
spoil piles from the gravel pit area and a lot
of dirt from Cottonwood Lake which was dredged. All of
that fill was they bought a laternal scraper type thing
it self propelled, you know, just see on highway projects nowadays.
The Walker family bought that laterno and hired Amand to
(20:33):
run it, and they ran it twenty four to seven
year round hauling in dirt. That was, they brought in
thousands and thousands and thousands of yards of phil to
raise that land where Kirkwood Plaza is, and so it went.
(20:54):
The floor elevation is seven feet higher than with the
land started out with, and the land around it was
also had to be raised of course for the parking lots.
Speaker 6 (21:05):
Helped tell the stories of Bismarck's past and become a
financial sponsor of this program. Contact info at Bismarckistory dot
org to learn more.
Speaker 7 (21:19):
My cousin's side of the family took care of more
of the ranching and farming operations, and my side of
the family, the poll August Walker side of the family
was more involved in the businesses, and the Eugene Walker
side of the families was more involved in farming and ranching.
Speaker 4 (21:40):
I started writing out at the ranch when I was ten.
Shortly after I turned fourteen, I was told not to
go to the ranch anymore because the walk Through Real
Estate Trust the Bismarcker was run by our side of
(22:01):
the family and the ranch was run by the other
side of the family. And I believe at that time
the ranch was around twenty eight thousand acres and ran
approximately two thousand, had a cattle and a lot of
corner of horses.
Speaker 7 (22:22):
From what I can tell, we had one hundred and
sixty horses, and when we got into the cattle business
we had four thousand had a cattle, and so that
you know, a lot of the cattle was down where
the Bismarck Civic Center is today.
Speaker 4 (22:38):
I remember my dad deciding back in the mid sixties
to build the Kirkwood Shopping Center. I do remember that
Bismarck Tribune, which was run and owned by Glenn Sarley,
(22:59):
came Mountain did a story about it and said that
my dad's idea of building a shopping center was Walter's folly.
But I do know that we unloaded paper for the
Bismer Tribune and kept it in the warehouse and hauled it.
(23:21):
But after that story came out, we didn't do it anymore.
You know, the mall.
Speaker 7 (23:27):
It was a really big project. I know that. I
think that it stressed my grandpa, my grandpa Paul H.
Walk a lot. You know, just think about it. I mean,
you're building this huge shopping facility in an area that
used to flood. You don't have any tenants lined up.
(23:47):
I mean, I'm sure it was a pretty stressful project
for somebody to do.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
He hired a consultant to help him lease space in
this shopping center that he was conceiving, and the three
of us actually went down to Minneapolis to talk to
potential tenants and convinced them that this was going to
(24:16):
be a thriving part of Bismarck. It's right in the
center of Bismarck, if you will at the time, and
it's bound to succeed, you better get in on the
ground floor. And so he was able to entice Woolworth's
and Pennies and Wards and Herberger's. I believe that was
(24:39):
the first anchors, and then the connecting hallways were filled
with minor tenants.
Speaker 4 (24:51):
Toughest party hadn't building the shopping centers when the nations
went on strike. Of course, that was over and above
the contract, and if I remember correctly, it cost the
walktors in an additional couple hundred thousand dollars to get
the brick laid.
Speaker 5 (25:09):
The name Kirkwood came from that was part of the
sales process of getting the Woolworth Company to be an
anchor for them all. The president of Woolworth at the
time's name was Kirkwood, and so they named them all
after him to get him to commit to bringing a
(25:34):
large store to Bismarck.
Speaker 7 (25:37):
Unfortunately, my Grandpa Paul Walker passed away in his mid fifties,
and you know, passing away at such an early age,
I think there was a lot of potential that we
didn't get to see for him not being able to
live longer.
Speaker 4 (25:54):
I became a trustee in nineteen seventy three one Mica
there passed away as one and four trustees. The trustees
were split between two on the other side of the family,
and my brother and I on our side of the family.
(26:15):
I believe the trust was created in nineteen fifty two
and was set to expire thirty years after the death
of the last grandson living on that date.
Speaker 7 (26:29):
All of the different various companies that the Walker family
owned were actually owned by the trust, and then all
the income would flow into the trust and it would
be distributed to the beneficiaries beneficiaries probably just a fancy
term for shareholders, So shareholders beneficiaries when it comes to
a trust. And so instead of having a president, vice president, secretary,
(26:53):
and treasure they had trustees. And the way that the
trust was set up was is that there always had
to be well. First of all, there was a total
of four trustees, but two trustees had to come from
one side of the family and two trustees had to
come from the other side of the family. So there
was always that balance of power in the trust.
Speaker 4 (27:14):
Working for the trust, it was interesting. They owned and
controlled at least eighteen companies, employed around five hundred and
fifty people directly and twelve hundred indirectly, and they owned
everything from liquor stores to warehousing to a trucking corporation,
(27:36):
hardware store, a couple of clothing stores, restaurants, a couple hotels,
Sign and Gravel, Operation Ready Mix Operation Bank. Yeah, Kirkwood Bank.
Speaker 7 (27:55):
You know, one of the reasons why Kirkwood mak was
started was we did a lot of business with a
lot of different companies, and so you know, we thought, well,
I mean, here's we can pick up their banking business
as well. Plus we had a lot of employees. So
all the employees that we had, we had over six
hundred employees banked at the Bank of kirkked Plaza. Not
to mention the fact that there were a few banks
(28:17):
that were hesitant about financing projects in South Bismarck, So
you know, starting a bank in self Bismarck that would
finance Self Bismark projects just was a natural.
Speaker 4 (28:28):
Anyway, the trust split up, I think it was in
eighty four or eighty five.
Speaker 7 (28:33):
You know, my family had gone through quite a few
different transitions, probably starting in nineteen eighty two, all the
way up until probably about nineteen ninety four. You know,
our family was starting to split their different companies that
they owned together and kind of going their separate ways.
And so I worked for Dakota sant and Gravel company,
and I kind of always wanted to go into the
(28:54):
banking business. My heart was always set on the Pirkuld Bank,
which my family started and own. That was what I
wanted to do. But my family sold out of that
bank in nineteen ninety two, and so I realized that
I needed to find something else different to do. My
dad encouraged me to get involved in real estate development,
so I transitioned into the real estate development side of
(29:18):
the family business. You know, my senior year in high school,
I learned about annuities, I learned about insurance, life insurance,
learned about everything imaginable. So when I came out of
high school, I had a pretty incredible competitive advantage over anybody.
So actually going to college, I just wasn't really interested.
(29:41):
I was interested in making money and I was interested
in carrying on the family name and working in the
family business.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
Well, what makes you stay air is your businesses. And
Besmark is a good place because we loved the community.
We wanted to be a part of it. The community,
and it's always thought that if you're treated right, to
(30:11):
give back to it.
Speaker 5 (30:12):
Their impact has been probably more than anyone in my lifetime,
has been the primary that Walker family has been had
the largest impact of any family in my lifetime. And
I knew T clum Casey, and I knew a lot
of the other developers in Bismarck, a lot of them.
(30:33):
We did work for almost all of them. But the
Walker family, first of all, started out with more resources,
more land, more big ideas, and so they were successful
because they had the resources and the time and the
(30:53):
ability and the desire, and so they've done extremely well.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
This marks my home.
Speaker 8 (31:02):
It's where my family is, and that's where I want
to be.
Speaker 4 (31:05):
So that's important and because of me, well, of course
you Okay.
Speaker 7 (31:14):
So when people hear the name walkd in Bismarck, it's
my hope that people will think about the long history
that we have here in the community, and I hope
that people really think that we've had the community's best
interest at heart. And it's been an absolute pleasure to
live in this community and raise children here. And I
(31:36):
can't think of a better place to call home than Bismarck.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Matt, thank you again for joining me today. Please tell
our audience where they can find the video versions of
each of the Prairie Pioneer programs.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
Yeah, everyone can. The best place to go is going
to be Bismarkhistory dot org, the Bismark Historical Society's website.
There you'll have a link to the YouTube page, which
is Bismarck Historical Society, and there you can watch all
the past episodes of Prey Pioneers as well as other
programs produced by the Bismarck Historical Society.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Thank you for listening to History Hot Dish if you
like what you heard. The Bismark Historical Society hosts programs
and events throughout the year. We welcome all those with
an interest in local history to join us. For more
information about programs or membership, visit our website Bismarkhistory dot
org or find us on Facebook. You can find History
Hot Dish on one o two point five FM, Radioaccess
(32:43):
dot org at anywhere you find great podcasts. History Hot
Dish is produced by the Bismark Historical Society and partnership
with Dakoda Media Access.
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