October 10, 2025 • 51 mins
Jack is back in Texas taking care of his mother while Nora is in Washington. At some point in 1996 Nora joins Jack. Flova is in a nursing home, and the family heads to California for the holidays. Dennis swore that Jack and the whole family was with Dennis in California for the holidays, but Nora’s diary says otherwise. Jon Benet Ramsey is killed December 1996, and a ransom note is left behind.
Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
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Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/hit-the-road-jack-finding-the-zodiac--5297837/support.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek
(00:22):
the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any
suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Good Morning, tru seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
We are back from Aftershock. Obviously, we had a pre
record last week, and this week we are live. I
wanted to share some YouTube videos while we're waiting for
some of our guests to appear. I had one from
(01:13):
a Midnight Ventures. It looks like it was quite an
old one and I've probably gone over this before, but
I still find that people are reporting issues and problems
with being able to access videos or even getting them
in order or notifications to them, and so I wanted
to reread this particular comment and it says by Midnight
(01:33):
Ventures this channel is grossly underrated YouTube and subs are
bose at fault. Sure this is content everybody has seen
before but it is still entertaining to watch if you
haven't seen it lately and are interested in the Zodiac case.
YouTube really treat small channels like trash and subs, and
I'm assuming they mean subscribers are too lazy or inconsiderate
(01:54):
to hit the like button. So with everybody out there
that is a subscriber to this, please do hit that
like button, you know, share or you know, introduce other
people on your channel to it, and get this thing rolling.
So many more people actually have an opportunity to see
the evidence for Jack Terrence being the Zodiac killer. Another
(02:14):
person at moore k nineteen sixty seven says, oh my gosh,
why did I never and why did I not ever
know about this guy? The composits look like him. I
am leaning toward it being this guy. And I think
I've said this a million times when we're looking at
some of these false suspects that are put forth just
to kind of confuse the situation or make it a
little more complicated for us to come to the right
(02:36):
conclusion as to who should be the suspect that's being investigated,
is that oftentimes these fake suspects do not look anything
like this composite, and these individuals are doing anything they
can to obviously take away from or disregard the composite.
But I do like to remind people that the main
and the most prominent composite in this particular case was
(02:57):
a sighting that was given by a police officer who
had actually ran into the Zodiac Killer in the presidio
in San Francisco after Paul Stein's murder. So our next one,
which is more current, is qtie pi HH three GG.
And she said, I'm gonna guess it's a she. Sorry
if you're not, says, as always, the police are useless,
(03:19):
and I responded that I think there's dirty people in
every aspect of life, and that includes law enforcement. Unfortunately,
should not take away from those that are good. Are
indeed good. Now we know that I've been covering a
wrongful conviction case for murder with Peter Wilson, and we
just did an episode on Being the Pipeman Piper's podcast
(03:42):
last week where we kind of covered all of the
information up to date on that wrongful conviction. We're looking
to obtain a writ of habeas corpus because indeed the
cop was bad and he framed basically mister Wilson by
planting his blood at the scene of the crime. And
I just recently found out that it was literally two
(04:03):
drops of blood that were splashed at the same that
got him convicted. And I find that to be a
little bit odd because if you're going to drop two
drops of blood, that would indicate that you had to
cut deep enough to create a drop to begin with.
And so where's the rest of the blood? I mean,
the man commits a horrible murder, the victim looks like
she's been raped because she's found with semen and sperm
(04:26):
between her legs. There are all these things that if
two drops of blood had been dropped, there should have
been much more found at the crime scene. And that
kind of takes me back to Dexter, and I know
that's one of Dean's favorite shows. One of my favorite
shows is Dexter and the Blood Spatter Expert. If they
had had this type of science back in nineteen ninety six,
(04:46):
I don't think that mister Wilson would be sitting in
jail right now because two drops of blood would not
have sufficed this type of a gruesome scene where the
victim had been beaten about the head, at multiple lacerations
and then gigantic four by eight by twelve being laid
across her body. I just think that two drops of
(05:06):
blood is surely not sufficient to indicate that mister Wilson
was the person who was responsible for that crime. Anyways,
So moving on, Cutie Pie also says Unfortunately, Well, when
I said that, you know there are people that are good,
she says, unfortunately, the good police or law enforcement are
far outnumbered by the bad ones, and worse still, they
stay silent in their sworn blue code cult mentality, therefore
(05:30):
enabling the bad apples to ring. We watch cop shows
on TV and we see them solve every case with
absolute commitment for justice, but in reality they bungle most
cases that go unsolved due to incompetence, corruption and prejudice.
After watching your Dennis Kaufman video, I felt so sorry
for him because he tried countless times to reach out
to the police FBI after giving them all the evidence,
(05:53):
and still they did nothing. And I absolutely do agree
with her. I'm not going to say they did nothing.
There was this playcating that was occurring with Dennis where
they would make it look or appear as though they
were attempting to do something when really they were just
round filing it, and the answers that came back from
any evidence he turned in always left him longing for more,
(06:15):
for more information from the police because they weren't really
giving any accurate results on what they were finding. If
I had to list out the things that Dennis is
actually let's see, huh No, this one keeps bouncing my
email saying it was blocked by Yahoo? Is she on
(06:37):
a yah? Let me double check I sent him to emails? Okay,
let me. I'm trying to get my guests here on
the show today. Guys, bear with me, all right. Let
me see if I can actually get it off to
or we'll see what happens here forward. Let's see what happens,
(07:19):
all right. So back to this, we know that in
the process of Dennis trying to show law enforcement Jack
Terrence as a possible suspect for the Zodiac, he has
turned over things such as Eton bond paper, which was
used by the Zodiac for his communications. He has turned
over palm prints, fingerprints DNA on envelopes from letters that
(07:45):
Jack has written. He has turned over the hood which
he found in a peace system that Jack coveted for many,
many years. He has turned over pretty much just about
Oh when am I getting some background? Knife, Ah, there
she is. I'm going to welcome Lindsay McBriar to the show.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Good morning, Good morning.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I'm glad we get that, all right, So I was, yeah,
I'm very interested in this is you just introduced me
to this morning because we are actually in nineteen ninety
six right now, and we're about to find out where
Jack was during June of nineteen ninety six. So hopefully
that answers some of your questions.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Yes, And I was actually excited and then I couldn't
When I couldn't get on, I was like, oh my gosh,
no a right.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
At the last minute. Yeah, I was just kind of
covering some of these messages from individuals and their you know,
thoughts and feelings on law enforcement not doing their job.
And Qutie Pie seems to you know. And I'm not
saying she's wrong because obviously my response you can see
her to the right. I'm not going to bother reading it.
But Tom Dixon was a link analysis detective, one of
(08:57):
the first link analysis detectives. When they first discovered that
people had link analysis blindness, and that was due to
proximity or time, So they wouldn't couple or put these
potential crimes together as it being one person, because they
were either in another state or they were at a
different timeframe. And for some reason, cops believed back then
(09:17):
that if you were a killer, I guess you maintained
one place of residence, you only killed around there, and
you only killed for a period of time, and then
you quit and went away and did something else. I
think that's kind of hilarious. But so Tom Dixon, being
a link analysis detective for San Francisco PD, had hired
his friend we've talked about this, Lloyd Cunningham, to protect
(09:39):
his step daughter in a forged will case. And of
course they did win the case. But that was that
good old boy system that she's talking about, the boys
in blue protecting each other. And then we have a
cop or a cop, we have a judge on the case.
Now this was the estate of Richard Scagliola, and the
judge on this case literally said, right in open court,
(10:00):
you guys, remember, we need to be out of here
by four thirty pm because we have tickets to the game.
And when he meant we he was talking about himself,
the opposing counsel to this case, and Lloyd Cunningham, the
document examiner. So I was literally just beside myself listening
to that, and I decided at that point that I
was not going to continue on to law school, even
after having taken a legal assisting degree and taking the
(10:24):
l SAT and preparing myself for something that I thought
was going to be really good. Everybody always said I
was a great arguer and that I should be an attorney,
But after seeing the way the system works, I just
figured it probably wasn't for me. I would be in
contempt and I would be in jail. Basically, all right,
So let's move on from these particular Are you still
(10:49):
with us? Lindsay, I don't know what has happened here?
Speaker 3 (10:55):
You are there, you are there, You are.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
So cutie. Piably goes on to say, it's interesting you
touched on nine to eleven. Have you heard of the
dancing Israelis? I'm not sure what that means, and I'm
going to.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Do you know what that I've heard that phrase somewhere.
It's probably in my nose.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
I feel like I feel like I've heard of it,
but I'm really not quite sure.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
I can't pinpoint it right at the second.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Do I just research? Oh yeah? And I asked if
I just researched dancing Israelis and I didn't really get
any response back from that yet. But I will research it.
I will check it out. I don't know if that's
them ultimately attempting to push this back on a foreign
faction that has done these events in nine to eleven.
(11:45):
I know that I focus on nine to Eleven's not
the actual date of nine to eleven.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Oh, that's where it comes from. What?
Speaker 4 (11:51):
Yes, yes, so they do have involvement in the involvement
that I have found is their spy system in which
that we used during that time, the United States used
and for the necessarily the particularly that what I found
it was the telephone they could track and they could
(12:13):
tap into yours, into your home telephones. And that's the
spy system that they were running at the time.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Well that kind of then makes sense a little bit
with you know, the mob always saying, don't call me
from your phone, go use a pay phone. Yeah, so
if they're tapping you, So that's what really the dancing
is really is, is just that particular method of tracking I.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
Think it's the dancing part that that word would there's
different aspects of it. That was just one that I
could that I found that is documented in the in
the now mu one files.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
So that of their spy.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
System that we were contracted with them to use. Okay,
so that just gives them the opportunity to do whatever
else that they need to to orchestrate something.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Right, Well, they've got the ind on your house, and
maybe that's why people aren't and nobody wants to use
a home phone anymore. Right, You've got what's App, and
what's App was then bought by Facebook, so you know
it's not private anymore. And then they've moved on to
a system called Signal, which I personally use Signal. Like
the second I heard that Facebook was buying WhatsApp, I
knew it was no longer going to be available, it
(13:30):
was no longer going to be uh unmonitored. I guess
if you.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Will be careful about Signal too, because as soon as
Signal came out, I did the same exact thing my mom.
Maybe my mom, me and my mom would message on
there actually about different things that we would discover and investigate,
and then she suddenly one day sent me something and says, well, nope,
somebody has access to this too, so.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
We're getting off of this.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Really.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Yeah. I can't remember what she said, but it was something.
This was months and months back, so because he had
been using it for over like a year at that point,
and she just she was like, no, I'm deleting the app.
And I was like, okay, so, but it was something significant,
some significant company. I can't place the company name at
Rolf's top of my head, but yeah, I'll have to
send it to you.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Okay, Well, you weren't the only one having problems. Evidently
for some reason, your email was bouncing back from one
and so now he says that Nolan's was bouncing back
to and didn't receive his either, So I just yeah,
so I just sent Nolan his I.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Got your immediately right when you sent it.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, Well, and I sent mine from Gmail. I don't
know which system one was using, but he said that
this one keeps bouncing my emails, saying it was blocked
by Yahoo. That's weird.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
I've never had a problem with the Yahoo. I'm more
suspicious of Gmail than Yahoo.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Right, Yeah, I've not really had any issues with the
blocking of things. Yeah, and I actually have with people
with Gmail accounts sometimes when I'm doing business and attempting
to send them too. Yeah, I get I get kickbacks,
so they're just not receiving it. It's not going into spam.
They don't see it at all. So yeah, well see
what we can do about that. It's only happening with
(15:09):
Yahoo emails. Very weird. I'm a Yahoo email and you
sent it to me. Oh no, actually you sent it
to Zodiac Gmail. So nope, I'm wrong. He sent it
line to Gmail. Well, then I had this other guy
at Videobuster reel six twelve says, yikes, by the way,
I'm LEBRONF Does that mean I don't know, I'm Lebron
(15:33):
like Lebron James, Like, I highly doubt he's over here.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
That's another rabbit hole on him. So oh really, Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
We love rabbit holes. I guess we live for rabbit holes.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
I get trapped into them.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Well, I just kind of at the end of this,
I was having this thought where I wanted to just
kind of like lay it out there. We're in nineteen
ninety six, we're you know, climbing into what's going on
be happening this particular year. He meant that if Josh
the Zodiac, then he's Lebron. He's being sarcastic. I love
you one.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Ah, all right, yeah, that's not I figured.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
But if you do the background behind Lebron, then you
would get it.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I guess, well, this person wants to be Lebron pretty badly,
because I'm fairly sure Jack is the Zodiac. But anyways,
he might he might want to spend a little more
time than on the single episode that he watched. If
if you know, you haven't watched everything and all the
evidence that I've put out here, then you really are
kind of clueless. So this is just a couple of
the mentalities that I wanted to like run past real
(16:35):
quick for all of those that haven't completely watched all
the episodes and known what's gone on with Jack throughout
the years. My thoughts. We had three calls to the
Lauris Reynolds indicated that she was petrified of Jack and
he tried to kill her, threat to kill her on
more than one occasion. And Doris Reynolds was one of
Jack's wives and that he killed the family animals. Dennis
talks about Jack killing the neighbor's dogs. Nora put in
(16:56):
her diary that Flovi's friend Nell was lucky to have
not answered her or when they showed up, because Jack
brought his shotgun to a little old lady's house. Yeah, craziness.
Nora writes in her diary that Jack claimed to have
accidentally killed a sickly kitten that jumped up into the
door jam of a Chevy suburban. And we're talking a
sickly little kitten of all those six eight weeks old.
(17:17):
This cat did not jump up into the door jam
of no Chevy suburban. I think Jack put it there
and closed that door on that cat. I would put
money on it. Oh.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
And if you have that will power to uh to
kill an animal, then that will power is to is
it's going to be always there to.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Kill anything anything.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Yeah, Because I mean my husband has like, you know,
he gets mad at one of our cats or something,
and one day you're gonna find that cat gone and
just making like at the time angry statements.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
But he would never do that. He kisses the cat
all over his face, right, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
But like it's like that instant where you break that
you break that barrier in between them. Then you have
reached a barrier that is unstoppable in killing anything, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, no concern or respect for life whatever.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
Yeah, it's like you just lose that total, that emotion totally,
like it's gone right.
Speaker 5 (18:23):
Well.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Dennis goes on to say that Nora was afraid of
Jack and thought he was trying to kill her in
the end days, that she was not taking her medication
that Jack tried to give her after the amputation of
her leg She was afraid that Jack was trying to
poison her. Dennis states that after the death of his mother,
he went to clean out her belongings and found that
pile of meds she had hit under a false plate
under the bed. That's how scared she was of Jack.
(18:45):
And then he realized how scared she was, and she
hadn't been taking the meds that were necessary for her
to actually survive with the disease and disorder she had
going on. I know that Gary believes that Nora died
in the hospital due to her complications with diabetes, but
Dennis told me off a he in his story where
a fake call of terrorism was called in on Dennis
at the hospital, which prevented him from entering the hospital
(19:07):
to see his mother in the final days, and that
she ultimately succome to death with only Jack in the
room with her. So somewhere between Dennis and Gary is
the truth. But Jack is a dastardly person, and he
thinks and acts in ways that are just incomprehensible for
a good human being. Oh it is my yeah, clicker,
(19:28):
where's my clicker going? Am I? Now? You open that
up and you go here?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
All right?
Speaker 2 (19:34):
There we go? All right. So we're at March fifth
of nineteen ninety six, so we'll be climbing into your
June month here any second. This murder I have actually
I only kept it in here because of the coincidence
between who it was. I do not believe at all
that Jack had any responsibility for this. It was actually
discovered that there was a DNA match and it went
back to a guy named Smith. Anyways, it was March
(19:57):
fifth of nineteen ninety six thirteen year old Crystal Jean
Baker at a convenience store in Texas City was strangled
and beaten, sexually assaulted, killed by a ligature strangulation. She
was Caucasian blonde with dark eyes, her face had been
badly beaten. I mean, who beats a thirteen year old?
I just it blows my mind. At Highway's eye forty five,
(20:20):
Highway three, and Highway one forty six, so there's approximately
twenty five miles I believe between where she was and
where she was found and north of Texas City under
the Trinity River Bridge. Now, Norman Jean Baker was Crystal's
great aunt, So that's Marilyn Monroe basically, And that's why
I left this one in here, Like, what were the
chances that Maril Moreau's great niece would have been suffered
(20:44):
a fate somewhat similar to what Marilyn Monroe had gone through,
or at least I believe that she had gone through.
It was weird, right, very very corac.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
I was thinking at first this was you know, there's
a series in texts. There's like a couple other ones
in Texas of a convenience store woman. I think only
one of them this this one. I don't know if
I've came across this one or not, but I didn't.
If it is this one, then I don't realize she
was thirteen. I was thinking that she was older, but
she wasn't working there, she was just taken.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, evidently it's another one of those convenience store you know, abductions.
And I know that in Tim Miller's finale letter there
is discussion of others that were killing during this time too,
So that makes complete sense that we have similar or
you know, near similar type circumstances going on, because this
is a little bit different. Although I think that the
(21:37):
reason why I brought it in is that killed by
ligature strangulation, because we're getting ready to climb into John
Benny Ramsay. So could this person have been the you know,
perpetrator of that crime? Was it Jack? Or you know,
was Jack just responsible for writing the letter in this
group of of criminals. So that brings us into March
(21:59):
twenty eight of nineteen ninety six. I show that Jack
has insurance coverage for an eighty two Civic and eighty
two accord in an eighty seven Chevy Suburban. The address
is now in his name at Dale, Texas, so even
though Dale, Texas was technically his mother's address, we start
to see all of the bills that Jack is turning over.
So in answer to your question, where was Jack in
(22:21):
June of nineteen ninety six, he was in Texas, so
I would have liked to have an opportunity.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
I thought, yeah, And I'm still looking into that one
too that I've sent you. I just confound it's randomly today.
It was like in my algorithm of a new of
her trial being like possibly overturned. Huh, because they wably
wrongfully convicted. So I'm going to finish it. Finish up
(22:49):
like researching it, and then you can do the same,
and then we can put it together maybe well.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
And I know at this particular point in time, Jack
has gone back to take care of mom, and I
believe that Nora went to Washington because she did not
get along with Nora whatsoever. So there's a possibility that
during this timeframe that Jack is there with nothing more
than he to do then, and I want to say,
(23:15):
take care of his mother. But if you notice over
here to the right, here's a nesbit nursing home receipt.
So Jack and he's calling himself John. So let's look
at this. He calls himself Jack Terrence. On the I
think this is a cable bill beginning payments, and yeah,
so on the cable bill he calls himself Jack Terrence.
(23:36):
At the nursing home, he calls himself John TERRENCEARP. He
calls himself John Terrence. So we're gonna see this flipping
back and forth between these names either J. W. Barnett,
Jack Terrence, John Terrence, you name it. All of the
different variations that he's used throughout the years, he seems
to be using in nineteen ninety six, as if to
(23:57):
say he doesn't even know who he is. I mean,
how many different ways are you going to spell your
name for people? Adopt it and.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
I'll tell you and I'll just for the audience so
they know. This is a number one tactic of the CIA.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
This is what they do.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
They use these aliases to get through these places into
these people under the radar, so no one knows and
they can never link them because and then they also
and it also at the same time causes confusion when
people are trying to figure out things, because they'll change
the spelling, they'll add a letter, they'll add an initial,
(24:34):
they'll put they'll change the the whole name around. Instead
of Jack Terrence, it could be Terrence Jack. Just for
an example, like they do this and that is a
tactic of the CIA, So that just shows you that
he had learned this from somewhere well.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
And I remember when we were talking with Terry B
in regards to his name. So Lisa Maurice self being
Jack's first wife and the ability what's that?
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Oh there, he's clear?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Now, Okay, yeah, you were kind of garbled there in
the end too, But that Lisa Maurice cell or Litha
Marie self. Uh, the last name self being a knoll
or a void in the system. So when you ran
that name, you weren't really going to come up with
anything because it keyed into too many different things rather
(25:25):
than a person. And I think it was just the
last name self itself that he was talking about. But
then in Jack's case, because he was J. W. Terrence, again,
you have that null or that void in being able
to locate who he is or settle in on one
person because J. W. Terrence truly is his name, but
(25:46):
he's not going by that. He's going by John, or
he's going by Jack, or he's you know whatever whatever
uh identification he's setting up for himself through all these
different companies which we would call being on the grid.
Jack is technically not a magrid because nothing is the
same between what you see from one pill to the
next or from one item to the next. So if
(26:09):
Flova is in a nursing home, then Jack technically isn't
being responsible for anything. He's got nothing but free tight
on his hands because he's not having to take care
of his mother as he had indicated that he was
going to do. I have to go back to take
care of mom. She's in a nursing home.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Well.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
And then the other person that another character we've just
talked about before, also used the same tactic many times,
which is John Walsh. No one knows, but it's John
Edward Walsh junior. No one knows that he's a junior.
You don't ever see that. I had to dig to
find that and verified it through Magan, his daughter, that
(26:47):
he definitely, in fact is a junior. But he hates
to go put junior apparently, she said on the end
of his last name. Never uses this middle name or initial.
It's always just John Walsh and that's it. He hates
for anybody to put anything added to it, which is
just crazy to me.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Right well, and I remember my children's father was a junior.
He was a second actually, and so the credit reporting
agencies would take three commonalities, whether it's name, social security,
your address, relations to somebody else, and if three of
these items could be set, then they smacked your information together.
(27:28):
So it really said on his credit report that he
was married to his mother with three children, ah at
the age of twenty two, because his name was Yeah.
So it makes it literally impossible to actually separate individuals impossible. Yeah,
And that went on for years and years. All right,
So we do see here that he is still currently
(27:50):
paying the bills for Flova at the house, which is
the energy bill and the water supply. He is also
paying his own bill for cable. So obviously when he
got there he had to change it out Viz's name,
which I didn't bring up. He had Hubert l Vez Junior,
there's another junior, was listed on this cable bill until
March first of ninety six, and then on April first
(28:12):
of ninety six we see it in Jack's name. So
that must have been around the time that he moved
back to Texas to take care of mom. And you know,
we just talked about those bills. So then on May
of nineteen ninety six, we show calls to Lacey Washington.
This is where Mary and Rick live. And Mary is
Nora's daughter. So when the information showed that Jack went
(28:35):
back to Texas while sending Nora off to Washington, we
now see the phone bills and we see the phone
calls to Lacey, Washington, which would likely be the phone
number for Mary and Rick. I had thought at some
point or during this point, there was a possibility that
they were in Boulder, Colorado, but over my research this
last week, I was able to discover that Nope, we
(28:58):
definitely have Mary and Rick still in Washington. So what
are all these phone calls to Boulder, Colorado during this year?
You guys are about to watch and see and we're
going to discuss those phone numbers. But so far we
can see a whole lot of phone calls to Roseville, California.
I'm going to assume that that's Dennis to sagein Texas.
I'm not quite sure who he's going to be calling
in Texas since he's in Texas, unless maybe that is
(29:20):
the nursing home where mom is.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
I'm not sure what what location was it?
Speaker 2 (29:26):
What sagein Texas?
Speaker 3 (29:29):
So he actually take a note of that, he.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Actually and maybe he's calling around for a place to live,
because that's another thing that I noticed over here on
this bill, he's showing the Route one box one seven
nine J one in Dale, Texas. So my presumption was
is that when he went back to Texas, he was
back at mom's house, and we saw that the cable
bill was in fact for the Route one box in Dale, Texas. Now,
(29:56):
as of May nineteen ninety six, we have Southwestern bell
bills that go to eight hundred Nelda Street, Lot twenty
sagein Texas. So Jack didn't move back to mom's house.
Jack moved into his own place. And maybe these phone
calls that are recruiting on this particular bill or him
looking for a place to live or moving into the
(30:16):
new place. Now also take notice to the misspelling of
the last name Jack Terrence with an E. Now, it
is completely possible that people make this mistake, and I
do see in Jack's writing beneath here saying okay, name change,
no call forward, non listed. So he doesn't want his
number listed. I thought, Oh, that's interesting. Why what you
(30:37):
have going on, Jack, You're not like some I don't know,
he's on disability, or at least he's attempting to get
his disability, he's not currently working. It's not like he's
some high falutin person that needs to hide from the public.
But he is definitely showing his true colors with wanting
to be incognito. And again he's in a completely different
address than we thought he had gone to. And though
(31:00):
he put the cable bill in Dale, Texas in his name,
now here's another phone bill on five eight of nineteen
ninety six where he's using J. W. Barnett. Now Barnett
is Flovah's last name, is mother's maiden name, and J. W. Barnett. Obviously,
when I looked up his it would have been his
(31:22):
great grandfather because we know his dad had died, or
would yeah, his great grandfather because it would have been
Flova's father would have been a J. W. Barnett. However,
J W. Barnett at the time of this bill would
have been like a whopping one hundred and six years old,
I believe is what I looked up because based on
birthday pictures and telling me his age at that point
in time suggests that this man is not alive and
(31:43):
that Jack is literally using the Dale, Texas address, So
he's using multiple addresses at the same exact time. I mean,
it doesn't get any better than that. Let's see, so
this is June tenth of nineteen ninety six. Three calls
that are made to Brighton, Colorado, and this number is
a three zero three six three seven sixty one ninety two.
(32:05):
I had seen another Let's see if I can see.
I had seen another Colorado number which I thought might
have been the atomic clock for time. Like right, there
used to be this number popcorn that you'd call, right,
But I thought Popcorn was kind of a set number,
and it's based off of the key keys, the alphabet
(32:26):
keys on the phone for the number popcorn. But I
was a.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Kind of like when you when you're down for information.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, yeah, when you used to hit four one one
and get information, you would dial this number and it
was popcorn. So the seven digits were popcorn and it
would take you directly to the time. So if your clocks,
if your power had gone out, you needed to reset
your clocks. We didn't have cell phones back in these days.
We had a number that we called to get the
accurate time so that we could reset all of our clocks.
So at first, I thought, well, maybe he's calling because
(32:56):
of that but we're seeing phone calls into Colorado, and
I don't know who he could possibly be calling at
this point. I had originally thought that it had been
Mary and Rick, but we see that he's still calling
Lacey Washington and that's where they lived. So yeah, it's
a it's a bit different whatever's going on here.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
Well, and let me just sell you this really crazy
fact in between this, because says this is like a
couple months before the husband of this of this woman
that was people believe that wrongly convicted in a certain case.
And I'm not going to whole detail, but her husband
was actually had his own business with an electronic industry
(33:39):
which included circuit boards.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Uh huh, that's right, up, Jack Sally exactly. So yeah, well,
and I wanted to just kind of briefly read some
people know what it is that you were talking about,
you said. On June sixth of nineteen ninety six, Damon
and Devon Rudier were murdered in the suburban Texas town
of Rolette. Their mom, Darley is it dar Lee or
(34:04):
Darlene Darley? Darlee Rudier was found guilty and sentenced to
death a year later, but has maintained her innocence ever since,
It says, I think I have another case I have
found in Texas in nineteen ninety six where and now,
so this one's a separate case from the Rudier.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
No, that's the rudier. Okay, probably just murdered it crazy.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
But says one Number one, a woman was I believe,
possibly wrongfully convicted of murdering her children and almost killing
herself by slicing her own throat. But the wound to
the neck was severely cut, almost fatal, and some experts
say she couldn't have inflicted her own neck wound, let
alone with her own bruises on her arms from fighting
(34:47):
off an intruder if there was one. Number two another
thing is there was no other evidence left in the
house from another suspect. And number three the housband had
a self made career with his own electronics company. No
murder weapon was brought to the scene, only a kitchen
knife used from the home kitchen. So basically, if I
take from that she she has bruises on her forearm,
(35:10):
you're saying.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
Oh, yeah, it's from and whenever I say not, just
the like people were just probably picturing a couple of
little bruises like you get when you fall.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
It was from like.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Her wrist all the way to her shoulder, like this
entire arm if you can see your arm, yeah, entire
arm in the inside of it was completely almost black.
It was so bruised almost like people would they they
they described it as like it looked like her arms
had been twisted like this and she was fighting it
(35:44):
like in godcha, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
I think it's pretty impossible to cut your own throat.
I mean, I don't imagine that too many people could
could do something like that.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
And she had to have surgery to because that there's
a piece of of of usle that thin piece.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
It looks kind of like if you always thought of it.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
And when I was in nursing, as like, I always
called it the seat belt. So it's like a seat
It looks like a seat belt like this, and it
goes like right here and it actually covers that artery.
But before that, it's like a little piece of slither
of another piece that goes over that artery and then
that seat belt muscle goes over it. It had completely
(36:27):
went through that muscle piece covering that artery where and
then it got almost to the slither of that piece
that covers that artery, and luckily, if it would have
went through that little slither of piece under that little
seat belt muscle, then she would have been dead.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
But they had to go in and.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
Actually sew up that muscle piece back together and everything.
So I mean, I don't know how she would have
been able to.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Do that, especially a female. I mean, when I think
about the possibilities like Jack pulling his own breathing tubes
and causing himself to pass what in two thousand and six,
he might have been able to do something like that,
But again, all he had to do was pull a tube,
not apply some type of damage to himself. Yeah, that
(37:16):
is fairly Yeah, that's fairly heinous. I don't know of
anybody personally do that. All right, So let's see Southwestern
bellt So now we're also going to start seeing the
introduction of a cell phone. So this number two one
zero three zero three four seven four seven comes into
play with me being able to track Jack throughout the
rest of this year based on where he's at, because
(37:38):
it actually gets to tell you place called and where
they're calling, where they're calling to, and where they're going to.
So we're going to see a little bit of that
in here, and that's as of August fifteenth, nineteen ninety six. Now,
I don't know a lot of people who could afford
to have a cell phone during those days. So I'm
still kind of bothered with Jack not even barely making
(37:58):
disability because he's not getting it. We just saw that
he's still waiting and still trying to get his state
disability for not being able to work. Yet we see
him owning a cell phone again, He's.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
Well, I know that in nineteen ninety six, my mom
did not have a cell phone.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
I know my parents didn't. You had a major I
think it was a pager that was going on, right.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
I think the first thing that I seen my aunt
even have back then was a car phone.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
And those things were gigantic. They were bricks, they were
so So that's basically where we have Jack. Jack is
actually in Texas. So is this particular roots her murder?
You said in Texas as well? Did you have the town?
Speaker 4 (38:40):
Yeah, yep, it was, Oh I just beat the horn
ye quick.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Oh town of Rolette. I will check to see where
that is and play with Saghine and Dale, Texas, and
keep in mind that I also think that there is
about a two to two and a half hour UH
proximity in which the Zodiac would have operated in if Jack,
being that person from South Lake Tahoe, was still doing
some killings in the Bay area. That's about the two
(39:09):
to two and a half hour out time frame. So
even anything that is occurring within about two to two
and a half hour time frame in Texas, I believe
that that proximity is still good for Jack. Yeah, all right,
so that brings us too. I found all of these
different computer commands. So this again shows the innate ability
(39:30):
to program and to work with the computer system that
most people were not even privy to, let alone know
how to actually put in the proper doss o. My god,
and in order to get the stuff that they wanted.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
So and then you have that husband of that circuit
that creates circuit boards. If anyone doesn't know what a
circuit board is, it's a computer keyboard, right, and it's
like and it controls the circuit board inside the computer.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
And here we go, We've got all of these and
I wow. This is actually dated July sixteenth, nineteen ninety six.
This test where program is to be used only for
testing purposes. Use this release with caution and back up
your data regularly. So evidently he's either beta testing something.
And how do you get in on that? I mean,
(40:20):
I'm just I'm astonished with what Jack has and can do,
and what he knows and what he's a part of.
So on July fifteenth of nineteen ninety six, I have
found a picture of Jack's brother Don and Eileen, but
I couldn't tell whether or not they were in Texas
or if Jack was back in California. Because Jack traveled
back and forth so much. We know that Don, I
believe it, during this time, was in Roseville, California, and
(40:42):
lived out basically his life in Roseville, California. To my
knowledge or at least the information that I show, that's
the last place I had him. So this could either
be a picture of him visiting Jack in Texas or
Jack visiting him back in in California. I just couldn't
actually find the picture. I was looking for it this week.
On July seventeenth of nineteen ninety six, we had the
(41:02):
new address for Jack at the eight hundred Nelda Street,
number twenty, Singing, Texas, and it's consistent with billings are
found through September twenty third of nineteen ninety six, So
this address, at least based on Mayo and bills, we
know this is where Jack is purportably at. There are
more random calls to Boulder, Colorado. I'm finding them every
(41:23):
week or two within the statements, and we're going to
talk about I will come across that other number that
I think may possibly have been a calling in to
check the time, but that last number that I just
read off certainly wasn't. So it would be interesting to
note who he's calling in Boulder, Colorado. And why why
did Jack keep nineteen ninety three and nineteen ninety six
(41:44):
diaries of Nora? Clearly she was known to write in
the diary. Why just these two years, the one that
puts him in Arizona where he's at Arizona University and
Pyramidia pre Rina Mills, and then the nineteen ninety six
one that clearly shows that he was no with the
family in California for at least a solid month between
the end of November and Christmas of December.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
So well, and if you didn't have all these phone
records and things, you still would have her diary to
pinpoint him that he wasn't in California.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yeah, he wasn't there, but the diary would have only
told us that he had purportedly gone back to Texas
to take care of his mom again. But once again,
she's in a nursing home. How much care can you
be providing when the nurses and doctors are there taking
care of her. You could be there to visit. Then
we know we loved his mom.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
But you don't live in an area just to just
to live there just to go visit every on then.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Right, right, So on September third of nineteen ninety six,
here are some more Oh, oh, this is the phone number.
So on September third of nineteen ninety six, there's another
call made to Boulder, Colorado. It's a three zero three
four ninety four four seven seven four. I wrote down
possibly checking time, just because I knew that act was
(43:00):
infatuated with the atomic clock and the accuracy of time,
and that comes out of Boulder, Colorado. I'm not sure
that this number actively goes to that. I didn't actually
try to call it, and maybe I should have. I
just assumed anything that old is probably not working anymore.
But if it is for time, but it still still
be good.
Speaker 4 (43:18):
But I have a system that I use for UH
to look things up, and so I can plug that
number in there and it will tell me even if
it does that number doesn't work anymore, or if it
was even if it was re given to someone like
which normally they do, it would still tell me that
all the background information of whoever had any connection to
(43:41):
that number, you know, it goes all the way back
to the beginning of when the number was created.
Speaker 3 (43:47):
So I mean, oh, yeah, I'll be able to see who.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Had that number. Oh that would be extremely interesting. So
we have both of those those Colorado numbers that we
were already at the end this time. I guess I
tried to send that email to Nolan and it didn't
make it too So maybe now I'm having an issue
with me. That is just weird all in all.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
That is so weird.
Speaker 4 (44:19):
Well, and you know, like right now that they've they've
brought up the John and A case again this year,
and they have they have stated a couple of times,
we're determined we're going to solve it this year, and
that was just kind of weird. How are you how
are you going to know that you're going to solve it, right,
like this year?
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Right, you don't know that?
Speaker 2 (44:39):
So no, oh, that's what they're saying in the rhetoric
is that they're going to solve it.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
That's what the rhetoric is is is uh is pointing
to It's like, we're determined, this is the use is
going to be the year We're going to solve it.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
You know how they do.
Speaker 4 (44:53):
And then it's just kind of like a prologue to
what their little plan is already kind of like.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Oh yeah, yeah, they're setting us up for what they
want and they're going to sell. This will be great.
This will be interesting to see what they come up with.
So back to this one. On September thirteenth of nineteen
ninety six, I have a receipt with Jack's address on
Nelda Street, but it's for Gerald Tarns. So we've got
a different person listed. What did you say, Geral Tarns?
(45:22):
How did t ar n a s t A r
n s is what I had down, Gerald Tarns and
jural is spelled j E r L. It's listed at
the Singine address and it is addressing the eighty seven
suburban that I had in Jack's name. It looks like
they're checking for ac free on level. But why is
(45:45):
the ticket in Geral Tarn's name when we know that
Jack owns it? And then when I look at the
signature of Jack Terrence down here on the bottom, this
is not Jack's signature. So this is somebody else signing Jack.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
Just glance at that and tell that's not his signature.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yeah, that's not his signature, and so what well, And
it's leftward slanted almost, I mean with these kind of
going backwards.
Speaker 4 (46:11):
Yeah, my dad, my dad, and my brother are left handed,
and they definitely that definitely does look like a left hander.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
I'm a left hander, but sometimes people it's a choice
for them to write with that leftward slant. And typically speaking,
any type of a leftward trend in graphology means that
you're clinging to the past, either due to lack of
nurture or afraid of moving forward. So left handedness doesn't
technically determine whether or not we're going to have a
leftward slant. It is definitely a choice because you're taught
(46:40):
to write forward with a right word. So that's a
very interesting concept. But I myself, as a left handed person,
I write fairly perpendicular uh, and I and I do
not curve my hand over as you've probably seen your
family members do being a left handed Actually, yeah, so
I'm perpendicular. I'm straight up and down basically, and I
(47:01):
do not wrap my hand because I don't like running
my hand through ink as.
Speaker 4 (47:06):
Gross well, and I can verify what you're saying too.
Also on the other hand, because I actually work with
two people, which I've never worked with two left handed
people before in the same building.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
But they actually I never noticed even.
Speaker 4 (47:21):
Knew that they were left handed, because usually you can tell,
and I've seen their writing when I first started with them,
and I was like, wow, you're left handed, and they're
like yeah, I'm like both y'all are left handed, and
I'm seeing y'all's writing and it doesn't look like a
left handed at all, So you know, so you're definitely
right about that for sure.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Yeah. So I tried not to determine handedness, age, and
gender when it comes to handwriting, because you can be
ultimately wrong. Well, Noelan, it's good to have you here.
I know we almost made it into John Benet Ramsey.
We are at September of nineteen ninety six at this
(47:58):
point and of course, we're down to the final minutes
or so two minutes probably that we've got left here
of the show, and we've just been talking about the
moving of Jack. So we had Jack move back to
Texas supposedly to take care of his mom, and then
Nora went to Washington. So we see all these phone
calls to Washington, which is likely Jack attempting to contact
(48:20):
Nora there while he's in Texas. But we see him
bouncing back between two addresses, and we see that there
are payments to a nursing home for his mom, so
he really didn't go back to take care of his
mom if his mom was in a nursing home. I'm
finding things that we get a little off, a little
strange here.
Speaker 5 (48:38):
He had other intentions.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Yeah, And lots of phone calls to Boulder, Colorado. And
now that we've established that Nora is in Washington with
Mary and Rick, we know that Mary and Rick are
not in Colorado, So the phone calls that are taking
place to Colorado are not to family members to my
knowledge at this point. But we do see that he
is actively using a cell phone. He's doing some type
(49:01):
of a beta test program for computer software, in which
case that's giving him commands and how to work the program.
There's a lot of things that are going on right
now in nineteen ninety six for Jack that most of
the average public did not have access to.
Speaker 5 (49:15):
Yeah, okay, real quick, before we get off the air,
I watched on the History Channel Unexplained Mysteries. They had
a segment on dB Cooper, and the theory on this
one was that he made this may have been a
CIA black awe.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Well, they were doing all said that they're doing all
kinds of hijackings at this time, So why did the
CIA need to, you know, test whether or not it
could possibly be done? But that, I mean, it's not
too far off the mark for what I think that
Jack was involved.
Speaker 5 (49:51):
With, right, he was part of a team.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
Yeah, bigger operations. And wait, I show you guys the
handwriting and John Bennet Ramsey letter and what really solidified
the fact that I think the jet could have been
involved with it. He may not have been the murderer,
but he definitely wrote this letter in my mind.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (50:12):
And also the last point, the jet that was involved
in dB Cooper was a jet that the CIA used
during Vietnam Go figure out, So anyone, yeah, with military experience,
knows that you can jump out, parachute out of that plane.
You know, you could lower the whatever they did, all right,
and jump out without harming anyone in the in the
(50:34):
plane itself.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
We're going to pick back up on this next week.
We've already ran out of time. Nolan, I'm sorry that
I didn't get you on until just now, but we'll
see you guys next Friday. Thank you everybody for joining us,
and have a wonderful weekend.
Speaker 5 (50:47):
Hi everybody, So
Speaker 2 (51:03):
Anything, anything,
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice. You should seek
(00:22):
the services of competent professionals before applying or trying any
suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Good Morning, tru seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
We are back from Aftershock. Obviously, we had a pre
record last week, and this week we are live. I
wanted to share some YouTube videos while we're waiting for
some of our guests to appear. I had one from
(01:13):
a Midnight Ventures. It looks like it was quite an
old one and I've probably gone over this before, but
I still find that people are reporting issues and problems
with being able to access videos or even getting them
in order or notifications to them, and so I wanted
to reread this particular comment and it says by Midnight
(01:33):
Ventures this channel is grossly underrated YouTube and subs are
bose at fault. Sure this is content everybody has seen
before but it is still entertaining to watch if you
haven't seen it lately and are interested in the Zodiac case.
YouTube really treat small channels like trash and subs, and
I'm assuming they mean subscribers are too lazy or inconsiderate
(01:54):
to hit the like button. So with everybody out there
that is a subscriber to this, please do hit that
like button, you know, share or you know, introduce other
people on your channel to it, and get this thing rolling.
So many more people actually have an opportunity to see
the evidence for Jack Terrence being the Zodiac killer. Another
(02:14):
person at moore k nineteen sixty seven says, oh my gosh,
why did I never and why did I not ever
know about this guy? The composits look like him. I
am leaning toward it being this guy. And I think
I've said this a million times when we're looking at
some of these false suspects that are put forth just
to kind of confuse the situation or make it a
little more complicated for us to come to the right
(02:36):
conclusion as to who should be the suspect that's being investigated,
is that oftentimes these fake suspects do not look anything
like this composite, and these individuals are doing anything they
can to obviously take away from or disregard the composite.
But I do like to remind people that the main
and the most prominent composite in this particular case was
(02:57):
a sighting that was given by a police officer who
had actually ran into the Zodiac Killer in the presidio
in San Francisco after Paul Stein's murder. So our next one,
which is more current, is qtie pi HH three GG.
And she said, I'm gonna guess it's a she. Sorry
if you're not, says, as always, the police are useless,
(03:19):
and I responded that I think there's dirty people in
every aspect of life, and that includes law enforcement. Unfortunately,
should not take away from those that are good. Are
indeed good. Now we know that I've been covering a
wrongful conviction case for murder with Peter Wilson, and we
just did an episode on Being the Pipeman Piper's podcast
(03:42):
last week where we kind of covered all of the
information up to date on that wrongful conviction. We're looking
to obtain a writ of habeas corpus because indeed the
cop was bad and he framed basically mister Wilson by
planting his blood at the scene of the crime. And
I just recently found out that it was literally two
(04:03):
drops of blood that were splashed at the same that
got him convicted. And I find that to be a
little bit odd because if you're going to drop two
drops of blood, that would indicate that you had to
cut deep enough to create a drop to begin with.
And so where's the rest of the blood? I mean,
the man commits a horrible murder, the victim looks like
she's been raped because she's found with semen and sperm
(04:26):
between her legs. There are all these things that if
two drops of blood had been dropped, there should have
been much more found at the crime scene. And that
kind of takes me back to Dexter, and I know
that's one of Dean's favorite shows. One of my favorite
shows is Dexter and the Blood Spatter Expert. If they
had had this type of science back in nineteen ninety six,
(04:46):
I don't think that mister Wilson would be sitting in
jail right now because two drops of blood would not
have sufficed this type of a gruesome scene where the
victim had been beaten about the head, at multiple lacerations
and then gigantic four by eight by twelve being laid
across her body. I just think that two drops of
(05:06):
blood is surely not sufficient to indicate that mister Wilson
was the person who was responsible for that crime. Anyways,
So moving on, Cutie Pie also says Unfortunately, Well, when
I said that, you know there are people that are good,
she says, unfortunately, the good police or law enforcement are
far outnumbered by the bad ones, and worse still, they
stay silent in their sworn blue code cult mentality, therefore
(05:30):
enabling the bad apples to ring. We watch cop shows
on TV and we see them solve every case with
absolute commitment for justice, but in reality they bungle most
cases that go unsolved due to incompetence, corruption and prejudice.
After watching your Dennis Kaufman video, I felt so sorry
for him because he tried countless times to reach out
to the police FBI after giving them all the evidence,
(05:53):
and still they did nothing. And I absolutely do agree
with her. I'm not going to say they did nothing.
There was this playcating that was occurring with Dennis where
they would make it look or appear as though they
were attempting to do something when really they were just
round filing it, and the answers that came back from
any evidence he turned in always left him longing for more,
(06:15):
for more information from the police because they weren't really
giving any accurate results on what they were finding. If
I had to list out the things that Dennis is
actually let's see, huh No, this one keeps bouncing my
email saying it was blocked by Yahoo? Is she on
(06:37):
a yah? Let me double check I sent him to emails? Okay,
let me. I'm trying to get my guests here on
the show today. Guys, bear with me, all right. Let
me see if I can actually get it off to
or we'll see what happens here forward. Let's see what happens,
(07:19):
all right. So back to this, we know that in
the process of Dennis trying to show law enforcement Jack
Terrence as a possible suspect for the Zodiac, he has
turned over things such as Eton bond paper, which was
used by the Zodiac for his communications. He has turned
over palm prints, fingerprints DNA on envelopes from letters that
(07:45):
Jack has written. He has turned over the hood which
he found in a peace system that Jack coveted for many,
many years. He has turned over pretty much just about
Oh when am I getting some background? Knife, Ah, there
she is. I'm going to welcome Lindsay McBriar to the show.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
Good morning, Good morning.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
I'm glad we get that, all right, So I was, yeah,
I'm very interested in this is you just introduced me
to this morning because we are actually in nineteen ninety
six right now, and we're about to find out where
Jack was during June of nineteen ninety six. So hopefully
that answers some of your questions.
Speaker 4 (08:28):
Yes, And I was actually excited and then I couldn't
When I couldn't get on, I was like, oh my gosh,
no a right.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
At the last minute. Yeah, I was just kind of
covering some of these messages from individuals and their you know,
thoughts and feelings on law enforcement not doing their job.
And Qutie Pie seems to you know. And I'm not
saying she's wrong because obviously my response you can see
her to the right. I'm not going to bother reading it.
But Tom Dixon was a link analysis detective, one of
(08:57):
the first link analysis detectives. When they first discovered that
people had link analysis blindness, and that was due to
proximity or time, So they wouldn't couple or put these
potential crimes together as it being one person, because they
were either in another state or they were at a
different timeframe. And for some reason, cops believed back then
(09:17):
that if you were a killer, I guess you maintained
one place of residence, you only killed around there, and
you only killed for a period of time, and then
you quit and went away and did something else. I
think that's kind of hilarious. But so Tom Dixon, being
a link analysis detective for San Francisco PD, had hired
his friend we've talked about this, Lloyd Cunningham, to protect
(09:39):
his step daughter in a forged will case. And of
course they did win the case. But that was that
good old boy system that she's talking about, the boys
in blue protecting each other. And then we have a
cop or a cop, we have a judge on the case.
Now this was the estate of Richard Scagliola, and the
judge on this case literally said, right in open court,
(10:00):
you guys, remember, we need to be out of here
by four thirty pm because we have tickets to the game.
And when he meant we he was talking about himself,
the opposing counsel to this case, and Lloyd Cunningham, the
document examiner. So I was literally just beside myself listening
to that, and I decided at that point that I
was not going to continue on to law school, even
after having taken a legal assisting degree and taking the
(10:24):
l SAT and preparing myself for something that I thought
was going to be really good. Everybody always said I
was a great arguer and that I should be an attorney,
But after seeing the way the system works, I just
figured it probably wasn't for me. I would be in
contempt and I would be in jail. Basically, all right,
So let's move on from these particular Are you still
(10:49):
with us? Lindsay, I don't know what has happened here?
Speaker 3 (10:55):
You are there, you are there, You are.
Speaker 2 (11:00):
So cutie. Piably goes on to say, it's interesting you
touched on nine to eleven. Have you heard of the
dancing Israelis? I'm not sure what that means, and I'm
going to.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
Do you know what that I've heard that phrase somewhere.
It's probably in my nose.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
I feel like I feel like I've heard of it,
but I'm really not quite sure.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
I can't pinpoint it right at the second.
Speaker 2 (11:24):
Do I just research? Oh yeah? And I asked if
I just researched dancing Israelis and I didn't really get
any response back from that yet. But I will research it.
I will check it out. I don't know if that's
them ultimately attempting to push this back on a foreign
faction that has done these events in nine to eleven.
(11:45):
I know that I focus on nine to Eleven's not
the actual date of nine to eleven.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Oh, that's where it comes from. What?
Speaker 4 (11:51):
Yes, yes, so they do have involvement in the involvement
that I have found is their spy system in which
that we used during that time, the United States used
and for the necessarily the particularly that what I found
it was the telephone they could track and they could
(12:13):
tap into yours, into your home telephones. And that's the
spy system that they were running at the time.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Well that kind of then makes sense a little bit
with you know, the mob always saying, don't call me
from your phone, go use a pay phone. Yeah, so
if they're tapping you, So that's what really the dancing
is really is, is just that particular method of tracking I.
Speaker 4 (12:36):
Think it's the dancing part that that word would there's
different aspects of it. That was just one that I
could that I found that is documented in the in
the now mu one files.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
So that of their spy.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
System that we were contracted with them to use. Okay,
so that just gives them the opportunity to do whatever
else that they need to to orchestrate something.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Right, Well, they've got the ind on your house, and
maybe that's why people aren't and nobody wants to use
a home phone anymore. Right, You've got what's App, and
what's App was then bought by Facebook, so you know
it's not private anymore. And then they've moved on to
a system called Signal, which I personally use Signal. Like
the second I heard that Facebook was buying WhatsApp, I
knew it was no longer going to be available, it
(13:30):
was no longer going to be uh unmonitored. I guess
if you.
Speaker 4 (13:34):
Will be careful about Signal too, because as soon as
Signal came out, I did the same exact thing my mom.
Maybe my mom, me and my mom would message on
there actually about different things that we would discover and investigate,
and then she suddenly one day sent me something and says, well, nope,
somebody has access to this too, so.
Speaker 3 (13:52):
We're getting off of this.
Speaker 2 (13:53):
Really.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
Yeah. I can't remember what she said, but it was something.
This was months and months back, so because he had
been using it for over like a year at that point,
and she just she was like, no, I'm deleting the app.
And I was like, okay, so, but it was something significant,
some significant company. I can't place the company name at
Rolf's top of my head, but yeah, I'll have to
send it to you.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Okay, Well, you weren't the only one having problems. Evidently
for some reason, your email was bouncing back from one
and so now he says that Nolan's was bouncing back
to and didn't receive his either, So I just yeah,
so I just sent Nolan his I.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
Got your immediately right when you sent it.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, Well, and I sent mine from Gmail. I don't
know which system one was using, but he said that
this one keeps bouncing my emails, saying it was blocked
by Yahoo. That's weird.
Speaker 4 (14:44):
I've never had a problem with the Yahoo. I'm more
suspicious of Gmail than Yahoo.
Speaker 2 (14:49):
Right, Yeah, I've not really had any issues with the
blocking of things. Yeah, and I actually have with people
with Gmail accounts sometimes when I'm doing business and attempting
to send them too. Yeah, I get I get kickbacks,
so they're just not receiving it. It's not going into spam.
They don't see it at all. So yeah, well see
what we can do about that. It's only happening with
(15:09):
Yahoo emails. Very weird. I'm a Yahoo email and you
sent it to me. Oh no, actually you sent it
to Zodiac Gmail. So nope, I'm wrong. He sent it
line to Gmail. Well, then I had this other guy
at Videobuster reel six twelve says, yikes, by the way,
I'm LEBRONF Does that mean I don't know, I'm Lebron
(15:33):
like Lebron James, Like, I highly doubt he's over here.
Speaker 4 (15:39):
That's another rabbit hole on him. So oh really, Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:44):
We love rabbit holes. I guess we live for rabbit holes.
Speaker 3 (15:48):
I get trapped into them.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
Well, I just kind of at the end of this,
I was having this thought where I wanted to just
kind of like lay it out there. We're in nineteen
ninety six, we're you know, climbing into what's going on
be happening this particular year. He meant that if Josh
the Zodiac, then he's Lebron. He's being sarcastic. I love
you one.
Speaker 3 (16:07):
Ah, all right, yeah, that's not I figured.
Speaker 4 (16:10):
But if you do the background behind Lebron, then you
would get it.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
I guess, well, this person wants to be Lebron pretty badly,
because I'm fairly sure Jack is the Zodiac. But anyways,
he might he might want to spend a little more
time than on the single episode that he watched. If
if you know, you haven't watched everything and all the
evidence that I've put out here, then you really are
kind of clueless. So this is just a couple of
the mentalities that I wanted to like run past real
(16:35):
quick for all of those that haven't completely watched all
the episodes and known what's gone on with Jack throughout
the years. My thoughts. We had three calls to the
Lauris Reynolds indicated that she was petrified of Jack and
he tried to kill her, threat to kill her on
more than one occasion. And Doris Reynolds was one of
Jack's wives and that he killed the family animals. Dennis
talks about Jack killing the neighbor's dogs. Nora put in
(16:56):
her diary that Flovi's friend Nell was lucky to have
not answered her or when they showed up, because Jack
brought his shotgun to a little old lady's house. Yeah, craziness.
Nora writes in her diary that Jack claimed to have
accidentally killed a sickly kitten that jumped up into the
door jam of a Chevy suburban. And we're talking a
sickly little kitten of all those six eight weeks old.
(17:17):
This cat did not jump up into the door jam
of no Chevy suburban. I think Jack put it there
and closed that door on that cat. I would put
money on it. Oh.
Speaker 4 (17:26):
And if you have that will power to uh to
kill an animal, then that will power is to is
it's going to be always there to.
Speaker 2 (17:37):
Kill anything anything.
Speaker 4 (17:39):
Yeah, Because I mean my husband has like, you know,
he gets mad at one of our cats or something,
and one day you're gonna find that cat gone and
just making like at the time angry statements.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
But he would never do that. He kisses the cat
all over his face, right, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 4 (17:58):
But like it's like that instant where you break that
you break that barrier in between them. Then you have
reached a barrier that is unstoppable in killing anything, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
Yeah, no concern or respect for life whatever.
Speaker 4 (18:16):
Yeah, it's like you just lose that total, that emotion totally,
like it's gone right.
Speaker 5 (18:23):
Well.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
Dennis goes on to say that Nora was afraid of
Jack and thought he was trying to kill her in
the end days, that she was not taking her medication
that Jack tried to give her after the amputation of
her leg She was afraid that Jack was trying to
poison her. Dennis states that after the death of his mother,
he went to clean out her belongings and found that
pile of meds she had hit under a false plate
under the bed. That's how scared she was of Jack.
(18:45):
And then he realized how scared she was, and she
hadn't been taking the meds that were necessary for her
to actually survive with the disease and disorder she had
going on. I know that Gary believes that Nora died
in the hospital due to her complications with diabetes, but
Dennis told me off a he in his story where
a fake call of terrorism was called in on Dennis
at the hospital, which prevented him from entering the hospital
(19:07):
to see his mother in the final days, and that
she ultimately succome to death with only Jack in the
room with her. So somewhere between Dennis and Gary is
the truth. But Jack is a dastardly person, and he
thinks and acts in ways that are just incomprehensible for
a good human being. Oh it is my yeah, clicker,
(19:28):
where's my clicker going? Am I? Now? You open that
up and you go here?
Speaker 3 (19:33):
All right?
Speaker 2 (19:34):
There we go? All right. So we're at March fifth
of nineteen ninety six, so we'll be climbing into your
June month here any second. This murder I have actually
I only kept it in here because of the coincidence
between who it was. I do not believe at all
that Jack had any responsibility for this. It was actually
discovered that there was a DNA match and it went
back to a guy named Smith. Anyways, it was March
(19:57):
fifth of nineteen ninety six thirteen year old Crystal Jean
Baker at a convenience store in Texas City was strangled
and beaten, sexually assaulted, killed by a ligature strangulation. She
was Caucasian blonde with dark eyes, her face had been
badly beaten. I mean, who beats a thirteen year old?
I just it blows my mind. At Highway's eye forty five,
(20:20):
Highway three, and Highway one forty six, so there's approximately
twenty five miles I believe between where she was and
where she was found and north of Texas City under
the Trinity River Bridge. Now, Norman Jean Baker was Crystal's
great aunt, So that's Marilyn Monroe basically, And that's why
I left this one in here, Like, what were the
chances that Maril Moreau's great niece would have been suffered
(20:44):
a fate somewhat similar to what Marilyn Monroe had gone through,
or at least I believe that she had gone through.
It was weird, right, very very corac.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
I was thinking at first this was you know, there's
a series in texts. There's like a couple other ones
in Texas of a convenience store woman. I think only
one of them this this one. I don't know if
I've came across this one or not, but I didn't.
If it is this one, then I don't realize she
was thirteen. I was thinking that she was older, but
she wasn't working there, she was just taken.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, evidently it's another one of those convenience store you know, abductions.
And I know that in Tim Miller's finale letter there
is discussion of others that were killing during this time too,
So that makes complete sense that we have similar or
you know, near similar type circumstances going on, because this
is a little bit different. Although I think that the
(21:37):
reason why I brought it in is that killed by
ligature strangulation, because we're getting ready to climb into John
Benny Ramsay. So could this person have been the you know,
perpetrator of that crime? Was it Jack? Or you know,
was Jack just responsible for writing the letter in this
group of of criminals. So that brings us into March
(21:59):
twenty eight of nineteen ninety six. I show that Jack
has insurance coverage for an eighty two Civic and eighty
two accord in an eighty seven Chevy Suburban. The address
is now in his name at Dale, Texas, so even
though Dale, Texas was technically his mother's address, we start
to see all of the bills that Jack is turning over.
So in answer to your question, where was Jack in
(22:21):
June of nineteen ninety six, he was in Texas, so
I would have liked to have an opportunity.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
I thought, yeah, And I'm still looking into that one
too that I've sent you. I just confound it's randomly today.
It was like in my algorithm of a new of
her trial being like possibly overturned. Huh, because they wably
wrongfully convicted. So I'm going to finish it. Finish up
(22:49):
like researching it, and then you can do the same,
and then we can put it together maybe well.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
And I know at this particular point in time, Jack
has gone back to take care of mom, and I
believe that Nora went to Washington because she did not
get along with Nora whatsoever. So there's a possibility that
during this timeframe that Jack is there with nothing more
than he to do then, and I want to say,
(23:15):
take care of his mother. But if you notice over
here to the right, here's a nesbit nursing home receipt.
So Jack and he's calling himself John. So let's look
at this. He calls himself Jack Terrence. On the I
think this is a cable bill beginning payments, and yeah,
so on the cable bill he calls himself Jack Terrence.
(23:36):
At the nursing home, he calls himself John TERRENCEARP. He
calls himself John Terrence. So we're gonna see this flipping
back and forth between these names either J. W. Barnett,
Jack Terrence, John Terrence, you name it. All of the
different variations that he's used throughout the years, he seems
to be using in nineteen ninety six, as if to
(23:57):
say he doesn't even know who he is. I mean,
how many different ways are you going to spell your
name for people? Adopt it and.
Speaker 4 (24:03):
I'll tell you and I'll just for the audience so
they know. This is a number one tactic of the CIA.
Speaker 3 (24:12):
This is what they do.
Speaker 4 (24:13):
They use these aliases to get through these places into
these people under the radar, so no one knows and
they can never link them because and then they also
and it also at the same time causes confusion when
people are trying to figure out things, because they'll change
the spelling, they'll add a letter, they'll add an initial,
(24:34):
they'll put they'll change the the whole name around. Instead
of Jack Terrence, it could be Terrence Jack. Just for
an example, like they do this and that is a
tactic of the CIA, So that just shows you that
he had learned this from somewhere well.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
And I remember when we were talking with Terry B
in regards to his name. So Lisa Maurice self being
Jack's first wife and the ability what's that?
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Oh there, he's clear?
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Now, Okay, yeah, you were kind of garbled there in
the end too, But that Lisa Maurice cell or Litha
Marie self. Uh, the last name self being a knoll
or a void in the system. So when you ran
that name, you weren't really going to come up with
anything because it keyed into too many different things rather
(25:25):
than a person. And I think it was just the
last name self itself that he was talking about. But
then in Jack's case, because he was J. W. Terrence, again,
you have that null or that void in being able
to locate who he is or settle in on one
person because J. W. Terrence truly is his name, but
(25:46):
he's not going by that. He's going by John, or
he's going by Jack, or he's you know whatever whatever
uh identification he's setting up for himself through all these
different companies which we would call being on the grid.
Jack is technically not a magrid because nothing is the
same between what you see from one pill to the
next or from one item to the next. So if
(26:09):
Flova is in a nursing home, then Jack technically isn't
being responsible for anything. He's got nothing but free tight
on his hands because he's not having to take care
of his mother as he had indicated that he was
going to do. I have to go back to take
care of mom. She's in a nursing home.
Speaker 3 (26:27):
Well.
Speaker 4 (26:27):
And then the other person that another character we've just
talked about before, also used the same tactic many times,
which is John Walsh. No one knows, but it's John
Edward Walsh junior. No one knows that he's a junior.
You don't ever see that. I had to dig to
find that and verified it through Magan, his daughter, that
(26:47):
he definitely, in fact is a junior. But he hates
to go put junior apparently, she said on the end
of his last name. Never uses this middle name or initial.
It's always just John Walsh and that's it. He hates
for anybody to put anything added to it, which is
just crazy to me.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Right well, and I remember my children's father was a junior.
He was a second actually, and so the credit reporting
agencies would take three commonalities, whether it's name, social security,
your address, relations to somebody else, and if three of
these items could be set, then they smacked your information together.
(27:28):
So it really said on his credit report that he
was married to his mother with three children, ah at
the age of twenty two, because his name was Yeah.
So it makes it literally impossible to actually separate individuals impossible. Yeah,
And that went on for years and years. All right,
So we do see here that he is still currently
(27:50):
paying the bills for Flova at the house, which is
the energy bill and the water supply. He is also
paying his own bill for cable. So obviously when he
got there he had to change it out Viz's name,
which I didn't bring up. He had Hubert l Vez Junior,
there's another junior, was listed on this cable bill until
March first of ninety six, and then on April first
(28:12):
of ninety six we see it in Jack's name. So
that must have been around the time that he moved
back to Texas to take care of mom. And you know,
we just talked about those bills. So then on May
of nineteen ninety six, we show calls to Lacey Washington.
This is where Mary and Rick live. And Mary is
Nora's daughter. So when the information showed that Jack went
(28:35):
back to Texas while sending Nora off to Washington, we
now see the phone bills and we see the phone
calls to Lacey, Washington, which would likely be the phone
number for Mary and Rick. I had thought at some
point or during this point, there was a possibility that
they were in Boulder, Colorado, but over my research this
last week, I was able to discover that Nope, we
(28:58):
definitely have Mary and Rick still in Washington. So what
are all these phone calls to Boulder, Colorado during this year?
You guys are about to watch and see and we're
going to discuss those phone numbers. But so far we
can see a whole lot of phone calls to Roseville, California.
I'm going to assume that that's Dennis to sagein Texas.
I'm not quite sure who he's going to be calling
in Texas since he's in Texas, unless maybe that is
(29:20):
the nursing home where mom is.
Speaker 3 (29:22):
I'm not sure what what location was it?
Speaker 2 (29:26):
What sagein Texas?
Speaker 3 (29:29):
So he actually take a note of that, he.
Speaker 2 (29:32):
Actually and maybe he's calling around for a place to live,
because that's another thing that I noticed over here on
this bill, he's showing the Route one box one seven
nine J one in Dale, Texas. So my presumption was
is that when he went back to Texas, he was
back at mom's house, and we saw that the cable
bill was in fact for the Route one box in Dale, Texas. Now,
(29:56):
as of May nineteen ninety six, we have Southwestern bell
bills that go to eight hundred Nelda Street, Lot twenty
sagein Texas. So Jack didn't move back to mom's house.
Jack moved into his own place. And maybe these phone
calls that are recruiting on this particular bill or him
looking for a place to live or moving into the
(30:16):
new place. Now also take notice to the misspelling of
the last name Jack Terrence with an E. Now, it
is completely possible that people make this mistake, and I
do see in Jack's writing beneath here saying okay, name change,
no call forward, non listed. So he doesn't want his
number listed. I thought, Oh, that's interesting. Why what you
(30:37):
have going on, Jack, You're not like some I don't know,
he's on disability, or at least he's attempting to get
his disability, he's not currently working. It's not like he's
some high falutin person that needs to hide from the public.
But he is definitely showing his true colors with wanting
to be incognito. And again he's in a completely different
address than we thought he had gone to. And though
(31:00):
he put the cable bill in Dale, Texas in his name,
now here's another phone bill on five eight of nineteen
ninety six where he's using J. W. Barnett. Now Barnett
is Flovah's last name, is mother's maiden name, and J. W. Barnett. Obviously,
when I looked up his it would have been his
(31:22):
great grandfather because we know his dad had died, or
would yeah, his great grandfather because it would have been
Flova's father would have been a J. W. Barnett. However,
J W. Barnett at the time of this bill would
have been like a whopping one hundred and six years old,
I believe is what I looked up because based on
birthday pictures and telling me his age at that point
in time suggests that this man is not alive and
(31:43):
that Jack is literally using the Dale, Texas address, So
he's using multiple addresses at the same exact time. I mean,
it doesn't get any better than that. Let's see, so
this is June tenth of nineteen ninety six. Three calls
that are made to Brighton, Colorado, and this number is
a three zero three six three seven sixty one ninety two.
(32:05):
I had seen another Let's see if I can see.
I had seen another Colorado number which I thought might
have been the atomic clock for time. Like right, there
used to be this number popcorn that you'd call, right,
But I thought Popcorn was kind of a set number,
and it's based off of the key keys, the alphabet
(32:26):
keys on the phone for the number popcorn. But I
was a.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
Kind of like when you when you're down for information.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Yeah, yeah, when you used to hit four one one
and get information, you would dial this number and it
was popcorn. So the seven digits were popcorn and it
would take you directly to the time. So if your clocks,
if your power had gone out, you needed to reset
your clocks. We didn't have cell phones back in these days.
We had a number that we called to get the
accurate time so that we could reset all of our clocks.
So at first, I thought, well, maybe he's calling because
(32:56):
of that but we're seeing phone calls into Colorado, and
I don't know who he could possibly be calling at
this point. I had originally thought that it had been
Mary and Rick, but we see that he's still calling
Lacey Washington and that's where they lived. So yeah, it's
a it's a bit different whatever's going on here.
Speaker 4 (33:14):
Well, and let me just sell you this really crazy
fact in between this, because says this is like a
couple months before the husband of this of this woman
that was people believe that wrongly convicted in a certain case.
And I'm not going to whole detail, but her husband
was actually had his own business with an electronic industry
(33:39):
which included circuit boards.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
Uh huh, that's right, up, Jack Sally exactly. So yeah, well,
and I wanted to just kind of briefly read some
people know what it is that you were talking about,
you said. On June sixth of nineteen ninety six, Damon
and Devon Rudier were murdered in the suburban Texas town
of Rolette. Their mom, Darley is it dar Lee or
(34:04):
Darlene Darley? Darlee Rudier was found guilty and sentenced to
death a year later, but has maintained her innocence ever since,
It says, I think I have another case I have
found in Texas in nineteen ninety six where and now,
so this one's a separate case from the Rudier.
Speaker 3 (34:23):
No, that's the rudier. Okay, probably just murdered it crazy.
Speaker 2 (34:26):
But says one Number one, a woman was I believe,
possibly wrongfully convicted of murdering her children and almost killing
herself by slicing her own throat. But the wound to
the neck was severely cut, almost fatal, and some experts
say she couldn't have inflicted her own neck wound, let
alone with her own bruises on her arms from fighting
(34:47):
off an intruder if there was one. Number two another
thing is there was no other evidence left in the
house from another suspect. And number three the housband had
a self made career with his own electronics company. No
murder weapon was brought to the scene, only a kitchen
knife used from the home kitchen. So basically, if I
take from that she she has bruises on her forearm,
(35:10):
you're saying.
Speaker 4 (35:11):
Oh, yeah, it's from and whenever I say not, just
the like people were just probably picturing a couple of
little bruises like you get when you fall.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
It was from like.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Her wrist all the way to her shoulder, like this
entire arm if you can see your arm, yeah, entire
arm in the inside of it was completely almost black.
It was so bruised almost like people would they they
they described it as like it looked like her arms
had been twisted like this and she was fighting it
(35:44):
like in godcha, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
I think it's pretty impossible to cut your own throat.
I mean, I don't imagine that too many people could
could do something like that.
Speaker 4 (35:55):
And she had to have surgery to because that there's
a piece of of of usle that thin piece.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
It looks kind of like if you always thought of it.
Speaker 4 (36:03):
And when I was in nursing, as like, I always
called it the seat belt. So it's like a seat
It looks like a seat belt like this, and it
goes like right here and it actually covers that artery.
But before that, it's like a little piece of slither
of another piece that goes over that artery and then
that seat belt muscle goes over it. It had completely
(36:27):
went through that muscle piece covering that artery where and
then it got almost to the slither of that piece
that covers that artery, and luckily, if it would have
went through that little slither of piece under that little
seat belt muscle, then she would have been dead.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
But they had to go in and.
Speaker 4 (36:47):
Actually sew up that muscle piece back together and everything.
So I mean, I don't know how she would have
been able to.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Do that, especially a female. I mean, when I think
about the possibilities like Jack pulling his own breathing tubes
and causing himself to pass what in two thousand and six,
he might have been able to do something like that,
But again, all he had to do was pull a tube,
not apply some type of damage to himself. Yeah, that
(37:16):
is fairly Yeah, that's fairly heinous. I don't know of
anybody personally do that. All right, So let's see Southwestern
bellt So now we're also going to start seeing the
introduction of a cell phone. So this number two one
zero three zero three four seven four seven comes into
play with me being able to track Jack throughout the
rest of this year based on where he's at, because
(37:38):
it actually gets to tell you place called and where
they're calling, where they're calling to, and where they're going to.
So we're going to see a little bit of that
in here, and that's as of August fifteenth, nineteen ninety six. Now,
I don't know a lot of people who could afford
to have a cell phone during those days. So I'm
still kind of bothered with Jack not even barely making
(37:58):
disability because he's not getting it. We just saw that
he's still waiting and still trying to get his state
disability for not being able to work. Yet we see
him owning a cell phone again, He's.
Speaker 4 (38:08):
Well, I know that in nineteen ninety six, my mom
did not have a cell phone.
Speaker 2 (38:12):
I know my parents didn't. You had a major I
think it was a pager that was going on, right.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
I think the first thing that I seen my aunt
even have back then was a car phone.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
And those things were gigantic. They were bricks, they were
so So that's basically where we have Jack. Jack is
actually in Texas. So is this particular roots her murder?
You said in Texas as well? Did you have the town?
Speaker 4 (38:40):
Yeah, yep, it was, Oh I just beat the horn
ye quick.
Speaker 2 (38:48):
Oh town of Rolette. I will check to see where
that is and play with Saghine and Dale, Texas, and
keep in mind that I also think that there is
about a two to two and a half hour UH
proximity in which the Zodiac would have operated in if Jack,
being that person from South Lake Tahoe, was still doing
some killings in the Bay area. That's about the two
(39:09):
to two and a half hour out time frame. So
even anything that is occurring within about two to two
and a half hour time frame in Texas, I believe
that that proximity is still good for Jack. Yeah, all right,
so that brings us too. I found all of these
different computer commands. So this again shows the innate ability
(39:30):
to program and to work with the computer system that
most people were not even privy to, let alone know
how to actually put in the proper doss o. My god,
and in order to get the stuff that they wanted.
Speaker 4 (39:45):
So and then you have that husband of that circuit
that creates circuit boards. If anyone doesn't know what a
circuit board is, it's a computer keyboard, right, and it's
like and it controls the circuit board inside the computer.
Speaker 2 (39:59):
And here we go, We've got all of these and
I wow. This is actually dated July sixteenth, nineteen ninety six.
This test where program is to be used only for
testing purposes. Use this release with caution and back up
your data regularly. So evidently he's either beta testing something.
And how do you get in on that? I mean,
(40:20):
I'm just I'm astonished with what Jack has and can do,
and what he knows and what he's a part of.
So on July fifteenth of nineteen ninety six, I have
found a picture of Jack's brother Don and Eileen, but
I couldn't tell whether or not they were in Texas
or if Jack was back in California. Because Jack traveled
back and forth so much. We know that Don, I
believe it, during this time, was in Roseville, California, and
(40:42):
lived out basically his life in Roseville, California. To my
knowledge or at least the information that I show, that's
the last place I had him. So this could either
be a picture of him visiting Jack in Texas or
Jack visiting him back in in California. I just couldn't
actually find the picture. I was looking for it this week.
On July seventeenth of nineteen ninety six, we had the
(41:02):
new address for Jack at the eight hundred Nelda Street,
number twenty, Singing, Texas, and it's consistent with billings are
found through September twenty third of nineteen ninety six, So
this address, at least based on Mayo and bills, we
know this is where Jack is purportably at. There are
more random calls to Boulder, Colorado. I'm finding them every
(41:23):
week or two within the statements, and we're going to
talk about I will come across that other number that
I think may possibly have been a calling in to
check the time, but that last number that I just
read off certainly wasn't. So it would be interesting to
note who he's calling in Boulder, Colorado. And why why
did Jack keep nineteen ninety three and nineteen ninety six
(41:44):
diaries of Nora? Clearly she was known to write in
the diary. Why just these two years, the one that
puts him in Arizona where he's at Arizona University and
Pyramidia pre Rina Mills, and then the nineteen ninety six
one that clearly shows that he was no with the
family in California for at least a solid month between
the end of November and Christmas of December.
Speaker 4 (42:07):
So well, and if you didn't have all these phone
records and things, you still would have her diary to
pinpoint him that he wasn't in California.
Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yeah, he wasn't there, but the diary would have only
told us that he had purportedly gone back to Texas
to take care of his mom again. But once again,
she's in a nursing home. How much care can you
be providing when the nurses and doctors are there taking
care of her. You could be there to visit. Then
we know we loved his mom.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
But you don't live in an area just to just
to live there just to go visit every on then.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Right, right, So on September third of nineteen ninety six,
here are some more Oh, oh, this is the phone number.
So on September third of nineteen ninety six, there's another
call made to Boulder, Colorado. It's a three zero three
four ninety four four seven seven four. I wrote down
possibly checking time, just because I knew that act was
(43:00):
infatuated with the atomic clock and the accuracy of time,
and that comes out of Boulder, Colorado. I'm not sure
that this number actively goes to that. I didn't actually
try to call it, and maybe I should have. I
just assumed anything that old is probably not working anymore.
But if it is for time, but it still still
be good.
Speaker 4 (43:18):
But I have a system that I use for UH
to look things up, and so I can plug that
number in there and it will tell me even if
it does that number doesn't work anymore, or if it
was even if it was re given to someone like
which normally they do, it would still tell me that
all the background information of whoever had any connection to
(43:41):
that number, you know, it goes all the way back
to the beginning of when the number was created.
Speaker 3 (43:47):
So I mean, oh, yeah, I'll be able to see who.
Speaker 2 (43:51):
Had that number. Oh that would be extremely interesting. So
we have both of those those Colorado numbers that we
were already at the end this time. I guess I
tried to send that email to Nolan and it didn't
make it too So maybe now I'm having an issue
with me. That is just weird all in all.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
That is so weird.
Speaker 4 (44:19):
Well, and you know, like right now that they've they've
brought up the John and A case again this year,
and they have they have stated a couple of times,
we're determined we're going to solve it this year, and
that was just kind of weird. How are you how
are you going to know that you're going to solve it, right,
like this year?
Speaker 3 (44:36):
Right, you don't know that?
Speaker 2 (44:39):
So no, oh, that's what they're saying in the rhetoric
is that they're going to solve it.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
That's what the rhetoric is is is uh is pointing
to It's like, we're determined, this is the use is
going to be the year We're going to solve it.
Speaker 3 (44:51):
You know how they do.
Speaker 4 (44:53):
And then it's just kind of like a prologue to
what their little plan is already kind of like.
Speaker 2 (44:59):
Oh yeah, yeah, they're setting us up for what they
want and they're going to sell. This will be great.
This will be interesting to see what they come up with.
So back to this one. On September thirteenth of nineteen
ninety six, I have a receipt with Jack's address on
Nelda Street, but it's for Gerald Tarns. So we've got
a different person listed. What did you say, Geral Tarns?
(45:22):
How did t ar n a s t A r
n s is what I had down, Gerald Tarns and
jural is spelled j E r L. It's listed at
the Singine address and it is addressing the eighty seven
suburban that I had in Jack's name. It looks like
they're checking for ac free on level. But why is
(45:45):
the ticket in Geral Tarn's name when we know that
Jack owns it? And then when I look at the
signature of Jack Terrence down here on the bottom, this
is not Jack's signature. So this is somebody else signing Jack.
Speaker 3 (46:00):
Just glance at that and tell that's not his signature.
Speaker 2 (46:02):
Yeah, that's not his signature, and so what well, And
it's leftward slanted almost, I mean with these kind of
going backwards.
Speaker 4 (46:11):
Yeah, my dad, my dad, and my brother are left handed,
and they definitely that definitely does look like a left hander.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
I'm a left hander, but sometimes people it's a choice
for them to write with that leftward slant. And typically speaking,
any type of a leftward trend in graphology means that
you're clinging to the past, either due to lack of
nurture or afraid of moving forward. So left handedness doesn't
technically determine whether or not we're going to have a
leftward slant. It is definitely a choice because you're taught
(46:40):
to write forward with a right word. So that's a
very interesting concept. But I myself, as a left handed person,
I write fairly perpendicular uh, and I and I do
not curve my hand over as you've probably seen your
family members do being a left handed Actually, yeah, so
I'm perpendicular. I'm straight up and down basically, and I
(47:01):
do not wrap my hand because I don't like running
my hand through ink as.
Speaker 4 (47:06):
Gross well, and I can verify what you're saying too.
Also on the other hand, because I actually work with
two people, which I've never worked with two left handed
people before in the same building.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
But they actually I never noticed even.
Speaker 4 (47:21):
Knew that they were left handed, because usually you can tell,
and I've seen their writing when I first started with them,
and I was like, wow, you're left handed, and they're
like yeah, I'm like both y'all are left handed, and
I'm seeing y'all's writing and it doesn't look like a
left handed at all, So you know, so you're definitely
right about that for sure.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Yeah. So I tried not to determine handedness, age, and
gender when it comes to handwriting, because you can be
ultimately wrong. Well, Noelan, it's good to have you here.
I know we almost made it into John Benet Ramsey.
We are at September of nineteen ninety six at this
(47:58):
point and of course, we're down to the final minutes
or so two minutes probably that we've got left here
of the show, and we've just been talking about the
moving of Jack. So we had Jack move back to
Texas supposedly to take care of his mom, and then
Nora went to Washington. So we see all these phone
calls to Washington, which is likely Jack attempting to contact
(48:20):
Nora there while he's in Texas. But we see him
bouncing back between two addresses, and we see that there
are payments to a nursing home for his mom, so
he really didn't go back to take care of his
mom if his mom was in a nursing home. I'm
finding things that we get a little off, a little
strange here.
Speaker 5 (48:38):
He had other intentions.
Speaker 2 (48:40):
Yeah, And lots of phone calls to Boulder, Colorado. And
now that we've established that Nora is in Washington with
Mary and Rick, we know that Mary and Rick are
not in Colorado, So the phone calls that are taking
place to Colorado are not to family members to my
knowledge at this point. But we do see that he
is actively using a cell phone. He's doing some type
(49:01):
of a beta test program for computer software, in which
case that's giving him commands and how to work the program.
There's a lot of things that are going on right
now in nineteen ninety six for Jack that most of
the average public did not have access to.
Speaker 5 (49:15):
Yeah, okay, real quick, before we get off the air,
I watched on the History Channel Unexplained Mysteries. They had
a segment on dB Cooper, and the theory on this
one was that he made this may have been a
CIA black awe.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Well, they were doing all said that they're doing all
kinds of hijackings at this time, So why did the
CIA need to, you know, test whether or not it
could possibly be done? But that, I mean, it's not
too far off the mark for what I think that
Jack was involved.
Speaker 5 (49:51):
With, right, he was part of a team.
Speaker 2 (49:56):
Yeah, bigger operations. And wait, I show you guys the
handwriting and John Bennet Ramsey letter and what really solidified
the fact that I think the jet could have been
involved with it. He may not have been the murderer,
but he definitely wrote this letter in my mind.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (50:12):
And also the last point, the jet that was involved
in dB Cooper was a jet that the CIA used
during Vietnam Go figure out, So anyone, yeah, with military experience,
knows that you can jump out, parachute out of that plane.
You know, you could lower the whatever they did, all right,
and jump out without harming anyone in the in the
(50:34):
plane itself.
Speaker 2 (50:35):
We're going to pick back up on this next week.
We've already ran out of time. Nolan, I'm sorry that
I didn't get you on until just now, but we'll
see you guys next Friday. Thank you everybody for joining us,
and have a wonderful weekend.
Speaker 5 (50:47):
Hi everybody, So
Speaker 2 (51:03):
Anything, anything,
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