Atlanta Georgia Child Killer 12-20-24

Kicking off this episode with a letter from the Atlanta Georgia Child Killer to complete the fourth section and solve by Harriette Sucher. Political call outs and Mob mentions top the list in Harriette’s solves. Here we have another serial killing spree during a time of political strife with the Watergate Scandal being investigated nearby. What a better way to sell newspapers, create fear, and misdirect public attention.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
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Speaker 2 (00:21):
You should seek the services.

Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Good morning, True Seekers and True crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
Today we are one less commentator. I want to have
our thoughts and prayers to go out to our code solver,
Harriet Souche. Turns out that she was in a hit
and run accident this last Monday, crossing a crosswalk. She

(01:13):
was hit by a truck and she has been in
the ICU and in the hospital ever since. She will
be me being moved to a recovery station where she
can literally recover from her accident. And I just wanted
to give a shout out to her because this really
sucks during the holiday season, which, by the way, this
is our Christmas episode, so I'm rocking the Christmas pajamas.

(01:37):
When I see you guys, back, Christmas will be over,
and I hope that you all had a wonderful holiday.
The I'm gonna just start out really at this point,
I wanted to give a shout out to the website
that has been formed by Talk for TV, which is
www dot finding the Zodiac Radio dot com. You can

(01:58):
go there and find all the episod so it's in order,
which I know sometimes people find it a little too
complicated to do when they're on YouTube unless they subscribe
to the channel, in which case they would come up
in chronological order. But here you can find all the
episodes one through We're at what now, one fifty seven? Ah.
Just got to love this. So with that being said,

(02:19):
I thought I was going to actually start out with
the fourth part of the solve, which is the ghost
killer letter involved in the Atlanta, Georgia child killer cases. However,
Harry is not with us, and I'm not going to
make much sense out of her solves, so we will
wait till she comes back to do that. Maybe a
couple weeks, I'm not sure. So I'm just going to
scream right on past that, and that actually brings us

(02:43):
to the additional places that Jack would take the kids camping,
and during this timeframe, like I said, Atlanta, Georgia, child
killer is beginning to kick off, and Dennis is telling
us a little bit of the story about what's going
on at this time. So I'm going to read an
excerpt his book. He said, if Jack was killing during
this time, Oh, let's just stop that. He said, if

(03:10):
Jack was killing during this time, when did he have
time to do these murders without my mother's wondering, my
mother's Okay, this is his printing in his book. I'm
trying to speak at the way it's written, and I'll
try to correct it if I can. When I get
there without my mother's wondering where he was? I remembered
when he had the perfect opportunity. All six of us

(03:30):
lived in that small camp trailer for almost two years
in nineteen seventy nine, nineteen eighty and nineteen eighty one.
Jack would frequently take my friend Joe Williams and I camping,
sometimes for a week at a time. We used to
go to Loon Lake. It was a couple hours drive
from Sacramento, so Cheqito Creek was one and now Loon Lake.
I have up over here, I have well, this is

(03:52):
actually mapping out Chikeito Creek. Here it looks like so
very close to the Nevada border. Let's see, it was
a couple hours drive from Sacramento. I remember after we
got camp set up, Jack would leave for a couple
days and Joe and I would stay at camp. I
never asked Jack where he would go. I just liked
the fact that Joe and I could do whatever we
wanted while he was gone. Jack didn't go back home

(04:15):
and my mother never knew he left. If anybody ever
questioned Jack about his whereabouts, he was camping with Joe
and I. These camping excursions were frequent during this time.
Jack could have been doing or planning his next murder
during those days. He left Joe and I alone, and
nobody would have suspected a thing. Another thing that comes
to mind is how Jack would always have to pinpoint

(04:35):
our specific spot on the map by using an AM radio.
He would find the direction of two AM stations by
turning the radio until the station was gone. Then he
would use a compass and find magnetic north, and where
the two lines came together would be our location. That's
extremely unique way of tracking, but it really kind of
proves the orienteering that we know that Jack was capable of,

(04:57):
especially as it applies to something like the mount the
the album map where it explicitly stated magnetic north. So
that kind of gives me goosebumps because it makes me
feel like Dennis is really kind of honing in on
some of the skills that the Zodiac had that Jack
also had. Another excerpt from the particular book is I

(05:19):
would later learn that the geographical part of the Zodiac
case would be the most important aspect. In nineteen eighty,
while still living in our trailer travel trailer, Jack's biological
daughter from his first wife moves in next to us
in her own trailer. Shortly after she moved in, Jack
was out her trailer and was choking her. He had
both hands around her neck and she went unconscious. She

(05:41):
came to a while later. In nineteen eighty one, Jack's
biological son from his first wife passed away at age
twenty eight. This had a big effect on Jack. This
is the same year that the Zodiac murder stopped. According
to Gray Smith, this is when Jack stopped drinking for
almost twenty years. In nineteen eighty two, Jack and my
mother's separate, and Jack went back to Texas to be

(06:02):
with his mother. My younger sisters went to Michigan to
live with our real father and my mother. Charles and
I moved into an apartment in Fair Oaks. So there's
a couple of things that are going on here, and
I know these years are a little bit ahead of
their times, but it is just part of the paragraph
in his book. But we're getting that reference back to

(06:22):
Michigan again. So I had explained before that Nora had
a family in Michigan when they were living in Minnesota,
and it was a very short trip in concern when
you consider how far Jack would actually drive at any
given point in time to travel the country, I want
to say it was about twelve hours. Was the shortest
way from Minnesota to Michigan where the family lived, and

(06:44):
put Jack in proximity with the Oakland County child murders.
So that brings us to the next murder, which on July.
Let's see, on July sixth of nineteen seventy nine, we
have Santa Rose Jane Doe near Calistoga Road where Lori
Lee Curse's body was found. So clearly we have somebody

(07:06):
coming back and repeatedly dumping bodies in the same area,
which is why it was probably connected or at least
thought to be the same killer, because they're dumping in
the same spot. It says that remains that were found
were just bones still wrapped in loops of rope. The
victim had been tied in the same fashion as Walsh

(07:26):
had been hog tied, with a rope running from her
ankles to her neck. And again, Jack grew up on
a farm and hog tying was something he knew a
lot about. Even actually when he traveled when he was
younger from ranch to ranch via the railway, he ended
up on a pig farm at one point in time.
This would have slowly strangled her to death, with her

(07:46):
hands tied and pulled down between her legs as if
to hogtie. It appeared as though she had been buried
or dumped in the type of duffel or laundry bag,
possibly like those used by commercial lending companies. Again, Jack
worked for South Lake Tahoe Linen Company, So we have
this laundry bag again, which we heard that was mentioned

(08:06):
in the Oakland County child murders as a way to
travel or bring the children up to the apartment that
he and the supposed acquaintance was in the Grommts from
the mouth of the bag were found with the bones.
White cotton clothesline had been used to bound the victim
ankles pulled to her neck with four cords wrapped around

(08:27):
her neck equals kind of a ranch knowledge of slowly
hog tin of a slowly hog tied death. Gramts were
found like those found at the top of laundry bags
for linen companies or maybe even military gromts for their bags.
So we just already talked about Oakland County child killer accomplist.
Letter wrote that he brought the kids up in laundry hampers,

(08:49):
so some of this stuff is closely connected. Another interesting
statement that by Dennis is that he could not have
known to be true of many of these crimes is
the use of the white nylon rope clothesline. That has
been a continuing m O and almost all the crimes
I write about in this presentation. Again Dohurst writes, and

(09:10):
that's Stephen Dohurst, and I believe it was the southwest wind,
demon of the southwest wind or something like that. He
wrote in there. He always had that stuff with him,
that damned math compass and radio, and he pulled it
out all the time. It was like a little gab
he played when we were out driving around. The other
thing he always had were links of nylon rope about

(09:30):
eighteen inches long. Jack never talked to me about what
he had done with that, and that was per Dennis
in Stephen's book. Now we're going to start to see
the entrance of the Atlanta, Georgia child killer. It begins
in July of nineteen seventy nine. On July twenty first
of nineteen seventy nine, we have Edward Hope Smith, who's
fourteen years old from Atlanta. She is murdered. I do

(09:53):
not have a lot of information on these individuals. I
did put it in where I did have information, So
some of these I'm just going to be able to
tell you about who who was killed and not necessarily
the style or the mo that was included. On July
twenty fifth of nineteen seventy nine, Alfred Evans, fourteen years old,
also killed in Atlanta. Then we have a nice big

(10:14):
jump from July to September. And the fact that these
are all within days of each other is really what
kind of mesmerized me, especially when we consider Dennis stating
that Jack would take and drop him and his friend
off camping and be gone for a few days, sometimes
up to a week. And these each of these are
happening almost in sets, within days of each other, and

(10:34):
then we don't see anything happen again for several months.
So it picks back up in September fourth of nineteen
seventy nine with Milton Harvey, who's fourteen years old and
he was going to the bank in Atlanta, Georgia when
he was kidnapped. On September seventh of nineteen seventy nine,
Lisia Michelle Jackson at Lake Wildwood Subdivision in Conrod, Texas

(10:58):
was murdered. Sometimes to me, this was kind of I
kind of almost feel like it was a way that
these different Cereal killing sprees were occurring, almost as if
we had different serial killers out there. But the possibility
of it having been one who was perpetrating these crimes
to make it look like these serial killers were still

(11:19):
existing in their areas is where I look at this one.
In September fourth of nineteen seventy nine, on the way
back through Texas to California on September seventh and nineteen
seventy nine with the Jackson murder is very plausible that
this is just another murder he perpetrates on his way back,
So landing in Atlanta, Georgia for one, coming back through Texas,

(11:42):
we get another one, and then once he's back in California,
we see another murder. In California, it says Lisia Jackson
was twelve years of age and resided with her parents
inside the Lake Wildwood subdivision of FM fourteen eighty five
in Conroe. She had attended Washington Junior High Lisa Jackson
and had been swimming in the subdivision lake with friends

(12:02):
and relatives about her same age, So we have relation
again to a waterway. Lisa Jackson was last scene walking
alone on Creek Bend Street in the direction of her residence.
Her relatives arrived at Jackson's home a short time later,
and her parents inquired about her absence. A search of
the neighborhood began and lasted through the evening the following day.

(12:23):
Lysia's eyeglasses were found at the intersection of Creekwood and
Deep Forests within the subdivision on September thirteenth of nineteen
seventy nine, and oil field worker found Lysia Jackson's remains
in a heavily wooded area along a pipeline of Exon
Road in Conro. This scene was approximately five miles from
Lake Wildwood, and autopsy determined that Lysia Jackson had been

(12:45):
sexually assaulted and murdered in September twenty sixth of nineteen
seventy nine, twenty two year old Tammy Vincent from Blackie's
pack Pasture, Tiberan, California. So this is the location or
they are finding the body of Tammy Vincent. So I
do not believe that this is the date that she

(13:06):
was actually murdered. I believe that she went missing previous
to this. But here's the information that we were able
to obtain on it. It is on the Sandy Bett's
murder map. And we talked about the Tiberan reference that
has made in the nineteen sixty eight letters to the
Draft or the Deer Draft Board letters says the charge

(13:27):
remains of a girl found shot and stabbed a death
near Blackie's Pasture in Tibran twenty eight years ago i've
been identified as those of a Washington teenager, slaying weeks
before she was due to testify in an organized crime case,
So this one has sent my ears up because of
course this is all surrounding the things that I believe
that Jack's involved with. The victims identify identity remained a

(13:51):
mystery for years until the DNA database analysis in February
identified her as Tammy Vincent seventeen, a runaway who worked
in a sex trade establishment owned by a man known
as a local godfather. Marin County Sheriff's detective Steve Nash
said the positive identification was made in February after DNA
extracted from a three centimeter strand of pubic hair matched

(14:13):
DNA samples from Vincent's mother and sister at a private
DNA lab at the University of Texas. In two thousand
and five, Marine investigators are pursuing suspects they believe stabbed
Vincent more than forty times in the chest with an
ice pick. Now we've talked about ice picks. If you
followed this podcast, you're going to see other references to
being stabbed directly in the heart a single time with

(14:35):
a very small either three inch knife or an ice pick.
And it seems to be that running mo again. She
was also shot in the head and then they burned
her body beyond recognition with acid on a Tibaran beach.
Vincent's upper torso and her face were disfigured by the burns.
When you think that this case is nearly thirty years old,

(14:55):
and then to be able to identify the person, that's
just unbelievable. County Sheriff Robert Doyle said, not only does
it further an ongoing criminal investigation, it gives a sense
of closure to the family of this young lady. It's
not a happy ending, but at least they know. I'm
confident we'll ultimately be able to make some arrest and
bring those responsible to justice. After the DNA match was made,

(15:18):
Marine authorities formed a team to investigate the unsolved murder.
They have canvas the country interviewing possible witnesses and others
they believe may have been involved. No arrests have been made.
Some of the burned evidence from the crime scene was
useless to authorities. However, a bullet was recovered. Authorities declined
to identify the type or caliber of the gun used,

(15:40):
and Tammy Vincent had a gunshot wound to her head.
The Vincent match was made through Cotis. The FBI's combined
DNA index system used in missing persons and other investigations
by nearly two hundred law enforcement agencies across the nation.
Most of the physical and biological evidence in the case
had deteriorated after sitting in evidence lockers in Tiberon and

(16:01):
at the sheriff's office for more than twenty five years,
but the root and shaft of the hair found during
the autopsy remained viable and provided the key DNA material
before being uploaded to CODIS. DNA profiles must be developed
through mitochondrial and nuclear DNA. Mitochondrial DNA is inherited from
the mother and is generally found in hair, bones, and teeth.

(16:21):
Nuclear DNA come from both parents and is found in
a wider array of sources. DNA testing of skeletal remains
is among the most difficult things to do in forensic science,
just by the mere nature of the samples, said John Tonkin,
director of the Missing Persons Program at the State's Department
of Justice DNA Lab in Richmond. The real key to

(16:42):
unlocking this case was all the additional evidence gathered and
retained under proper conditions. The identification was absolutely critical to
furthering the investigation. It was stalled until the body was identified.
Senior criminalist Amy Hoover, who works at the Richmond DNA Lab,
compiled two binders of data during work with Nash in
the Sheriff's office on the Vincent case. For this one case,

(17:04):
we'll have twenty more that we never are able to
make an identification. Hoover said, we were lucky that there
wasn't burn, We were lucky that the area wasn't burnt,
and we had good pubic hair. The body of Vincent
was discovered by a jogger the morning of September twenty sixth,

(17:24):
nineteen seventy nine, at Richardson Bay Park at the end
of Greenwood Beach Road. A witness reported seeing a bonfire
on the beach just after three am. Several hours later,
Tiberon detectives who arrived the scene found Vincent's crumpled body,
and ice pick and actone were found nearby. A bullet
was recovered without any leads. Authorities buried her body in

(17:44):
an unmarked grave at Valley Memorial Park in Nevada in
December twelfth, nineteen seventy nine. Her remains were exumed twice
the first time in June two thousand and two, so
authorities could extract DNA samples from her skeletal remains, but
authorities were only able to develop a partial pro file
and the DNA was of new use. On August seventh,
her body was exhumed again so remains could be cremated

(18:06):
and returned to Washington, where a small private funeral was
held three days later for family and friends. This has
been an extremely emotional time for me, said Nash, who
was assigned the case in two thousand and one. Finally,
after all these years, we've been able to bring this
girl home to her family. The victim's younger sister, Sandy
Vincent forty four, seeks justice for me. It's closure on

(18:26):
one chapter, but another one remains open. Vincent said, the
story is still ongoing. I can't believe she was murdered
and that someone is getting away with it. I would
really like to see them pay for what they have done.
Authorities declined to identify the city in which the Vincent
family lives, fearing possible retaliation against them. Marine authorities are
working with King County, Washington law enforcement officials to track

(18:49):
down suspects in the case. Officials believe Tammy Vincent was
working at a Seattle area adult entertainment establishment when she
was picked up during a raid along with several others
about a monkey. Before she was murdered, it is believed
that Vincent was transferred to California to work at the
Palace Theater on Turk Street in San Francisco before she
could testify in a federal case in King County. Vincent

(19:11):
was last scene with the Caucasian mail at a Woolworst
store at Powell and Market Streets in San Francisco. The
Woolworst comes to mind because we know that there was
paper that was used in the series of communications which
I believe are attributed to the Zodiac, and it was
on paper that was purchased at Woolworth. So again just
another one of those connectivities. The night before she was murdered.

(19:35):
Investigators say the ice pick and the acetone found at
the murder scene were purchased at Woolworst as well, which
closed several years ago. Investigators were able to trace the
sales clerk who handled the original transaction. When Vincent's body
was discovered, she was wearing tan pants, a black short
sleeved shirt with a yellow halter top underneath, and expensive
light brown high heels from Italy. Even in death, she

(19:58):
was clean and neat and looked looking like a young,
innocent victim. Nash said she wasn't living like some homeless person.
The National Center for Missing and Exploited Children developed a
composite photograph based on her partially burned face. Mill Valley
forensic artist Gloria News of Mill Valley helped with the
reconstruction of the girl's head and hair. Authorities believe Vincent
worked for Joe Wiley Brown, a man Seattle officials described

(20:21):
as a local godfather who ran Seattle area adult entertainment businesses.
He was later convicted on federal racketeering charges along with
an ex cop, for prostitution, arson loan sharking, and extortion.
According to Washington State court records, in February of two
thousand and three, DNA from Vincent's family was collected and
submitted by Washington officials for analysis and connection with the

(20:43):
Green River serial killer case. Washington officials sought to identify
young women murdered in the Green River area south of Seattle.
On November fifth of two thousand and three, Gary Ridgway.
Ridgeway pleaded guilty to forty eight Council murder, including forty
two of the forty nine Green River victims. Seattle authorities
compared Tammy Vincent's partial DNA profile with the remains of

(21:04):
four unidentified Green River bodies, but no match was found.
Then in February of this year, Vincent's DNA profile was
uploaded by the Richmond Lab into the FBI's National Missing
Person's database, and a tentative match was made. By the
end of the month, Marine authorities confirmed that the unidentified
body found in Tiberan was Tammy Vincent. The use of
DNA and criminal cases came into use by police agencies

(21:28):
in the late nineteen eighties and early nineteen nineties. About
a year after being assigned to the case, Marine authorities
began to develop a DNA profile using bones and other evidence. However,
much of the evidence was useless because the schedulet remains
had deteriorated, but a hair sample preserved following an autopsy
held the DNA that made that match. Hoover, who works

(21:48):
at the state's DNA lab in Richmond, called Nash to
inform him of the database hit. Within hours, Nash was
on an airplane headed to Washington State to deliver the
news to her family. It's absolutely amazing, a Tiburan police
Captain Dave Hutton said, when you come across a case
over that amount of time, to finally bring this young
lady to a proper resting place where her family knows

(22:08):
and there's a sense of closure, that to me is
just mind boggling, says. Last month, cemetery workers exhumed the
body from the grave nineteen thirty two, Dash four in
the Garden of Devotion at Valley Memorial Park in Nevada.
On an overcast day. Nash gathered Vincent's remains from the grave.
The next day, her remains were cremated. Two days later,

(22:28):
National detective Jim Hickey arrived in Washington with an urn
containing Vincent's ashes. It was the focal point of a
family memorial service at Ephrata Cemetery in Ephrata, Washington. Sandy
Vincent was almost too overwhelmed to speak. More than twenty
seven years after Tammy was killed, Sandy delivered an emotional
goodbye to her sister at the gathering. We could have

(22:50):
done a lot of things together, as sisters do, she said.
Last month. She could have had a family, and I
know she had a career. She wanted to pursue Sandy.
Vincent said her wanted to become a nurse. I know
she wanted to come home. Vincent said, she just didn't
get the chance. How could anyone who possibly could have
done this live without having any sort of guilt. I
would very much like to have justice. So that brings

(23:15):
us to a murder. On September twenty sixth of nineteen
seventy nine, eighteen to twenty year old female in Tihran, California,
dumped on the beach in an area frequented by joggers,
stab repeatedly, shot in the head facing upper torso, mutilated
by burns. Never identified. So I'm sorry. This is when
the body of Tammy was found. Was September twenty sixth

(23:36):
of nineteen seventy nine. And these are some of the
recreations that those recreation artists had completed. And I think
ultimately in the end that this is actually the picture
of Tammy Vincent. The interesting note this murder is connected
to the Green River killer Gary Ridgeway, since Tammy was
purportedly part of a sex scheme and moved to San
Francisco in order to testify in a federal case for

(23:58):
King County. King County is the Green River killings occurred
in Seattle, Washington area. However, this murder took place in California.
So while Ridgway confesses to seventy one murders, he is
only linked to four by DNA and leads officials in
exchange for a plead deal to the graves of three others.
I'm just confused because why would he not have taught
taken them to all seventy one if he's admitting to

(24:19):
seventy one. So he's just overly taking culpability for many
more crimes like we seen with Henry Lee Lucas that
he didn't actively commit, but he's being talked in to
taking the rap for those. I'm not sure if there
were names provided in how they came to the conclusion
there was seventy one unless he could have identified these
particular murders. Let's see here, what and why would he

(24:45):
have not taken them to all seventy one if his
deal was life in prison instead of the death penalty? Again,
doesn't make any sense. You're being you're being given the
opportunity to not suffer the death penalty. Why not admit
to all of them, So I felt like there was
something going on here, and it makes me wonder if
Ridgeway isn't just the fall guy for a larger story.

(25:05):
Like Henry Lee Lucas unidentified helper from Alby in California,
supports the likeness of the Green River Killer to the
Zodiac Killer and the occult relationship which includes Alistair Crowley
and the Rosicrucians. Now, I know that the Rosicrucians was
something that Stephen Doers heavily hit on in his book.
I'm not sure if that is really kind of up

(25:25):
the alley that we're going onto, but I know that
Harriet had also at some point in time began speaking
about the Rosicrucians and the relation to the Pope or
to the Catholic religion. So maybe there is something there
behind it. It's just not an avenue or a hole
that this rabbit's gone down. It looks like I took
this particular next murder out because it has been attributed

(25:47):
to Joseph d Angelo, the Golden State Killer, and Bay
Area rapists, but it is on October first of nineteen
seventy nine. I originally had it in here because I
do see that there is a southern California relation to
the murders, as we talked about in the black Doll
You cases and so forth, and this is actually one
of the pathways that Jack would take out of California

(26:09):
and when he was on his way to either Arizona,
Texas or any of the southern states. It shows that
they were tied up but scarred off by the females.
I'm sorry, the couple was tied up, but was the
suspect was scared off by the female screams attacks near
a neighbor who is an FBI agent. The FBI agent

(26:32):
describes the perp that got away. The friendly murder couple
and two other Goleada couples in twelve thirty seventy nine
are again close mos to what we saw here with
these two individuals that survived the East Area rapists and
the original night stalker from Galida murders are one and
the same person per law enforcement and the DNA tests.

(26:53):
Crime stopped in nineteen eighty six, and again this crime
has been associated with Joseph DiAngelo. So I have for
the time and crossed that one out, though I still
have to keep in the back of my mind Jack
stating that he knows that there are people who have
taken the rap for him, whether it was them actively
taking the rap, or it was them just being the
fall guy or the patsy. On October eighth of nineteen

(27:15):
seventy nine, Molly Vwinovich in Cleveland, Ohio. Now this is
Senator Georgevitch's nine year old daughter was struck by a
van and killed a few days after the primary elections.
So this brings me right back to Harriet right now
at this point, because of course, she just moved to
the Yukaya area, she'd only been there but a couple

(27:35):
of weeks, and she finds herself in a hit and
run accident. She did inform me yesterday that they did
actually catch and arrest the individual who ran from the scene,
but it was all kind of relative, And interestingly enough,
it happens at a time when I'm going to be
sharing this information with you about Thewinovitch's daughter. Was this
meant to halt the campaign of Senator Vuinovich But it didn't,

(27:57):
So he actually continued to run and one the suspect
that hit her was apprehended and convicted. But he was
but was he part of some group to kind of
stifle Vowenovich's endeavors. Vanovitch will start to receive taunting letters
very similar to the Zodiac Killers, along with memorabilia in
those letters that are consistent with things that we see

(28:19):
from the Zodiac Killer in the Halloween card. And we'll
be talking about that when we get to those communications.
Let's see. So it says on October eighth, nineteen seventy nine,
a few days after the primary, Vewinovich's nine year old
daughter Molly was struck by a van and killed. The
event brought the Vewenovich campaign to a virtual halt and

(28:40):
made it difficult for Kucinich to attack his opponent. Still,
he challenged Vonovich to a series of debates in various
Cleveland neighborhoods. And again, this is Cleveland, Ohio, you guys,
So you have to remember we have communications that are
in the FBI FOYA files that indicates Zodiac style letters
were mailed to Ohio. Declined the invitation, saying the debates

(29:01):
would be unproductive, but they did debate on November third
at the City Club. Winovich won the election with ninety
four five and forty one votes to Kusinich. Seventy three
thousan seven hundred and fifty five votes. On October nineteen
seventy nine, I see a piece of mail that is
in Jack's belongings which actually confirms the location that Dennis

(29:24):
Coffin speaks about, which is that trailer park that they
lived in for the two years in the Sacramento area.
It's on Auburn Boulevard, and it eventually actually becomes the
FBI Sacramento Field Office, And I thought that, what a coincidence.
So when I mapped it out and I have it
here on the map, we can actually see the area
in which the mobile home park and back then I'm

(29:47):
really not sure obviously, my hope there it goes back then,
and we were looking at a current map of today's
street makeup, So I don't know that back in that
day that there wasn't actually a a combination of this
entire area which was actually a mobile home park. But

(30:07):
we do see that this right here on Orange Grove
and Auburn Boulevard is the location of the field office
of the FBI. On October twenty first, nineteen seventy nine,
we see the Atlanta Child Atlanta, Georgia Child Killer Strike
again with Yusuf Bell. He was going to the store.
He was getting into a blue car in Atlanta. Kind

(30:31):
of reminds me of that blue Gremlin reference in the
Oakland County child murders, but it doesn't state what type
of car. He had been strangled and abandoned in E. P.
Johnson Elementary School. That to me was again reference to
a president, as seen in many of these cases with
the postage and other school dumb signs that are named
after presidents, or Benjamin Franklin and Bush with the Humble

(30:54):
Texas reference which is right next to Bush International Airport.
So I just kept putting these pieces together as a
method of operation because it seemed that it was right
up that alley. October twenty first of nineteen seventy nine,
Mary Bennett in San Francisco, California. This would be after returning,
obviously to California. She was stabbed more than twenty five

(31:17):
times in the back, neck and face, again complete overkill
like we saw in the Sherry Joe Bates case. She
was buried in a goalie north of Lincoln Park golf
Course's third hole. And of course the springs is back
to Blue Rock Springs and the golf course murders that
was associated with the Zodiac Killer on November nineteen seventy nine,

(31:37):
found in New York, Livingston's County. Tammy Joe Alexander from
Florida and Iran, a runaway, went missing in nineteen seventy seven,
but was found in November of nineteen seventy nine. On
December Tewod of nineteen seventy nine, we actually have the
Times Square killer. And the reason why this one got
put into the presentation is because they were missing heads
and hands. The bathtub was us to clean them. I

(32:01):
did list myself to research this, and I do believe
that I watched a documentary on these particular murders. The
fact that the heads and hands were never found, but
then we start actually finding schools and hands in other
locations again brings us back to murders we just talked
to about talk to you about last week, in which
case teeth that did not belong to victims found in
shallow graves were found in those graves with those victims

(32:24):
and it did not belong to them. So we have
that cross crossing over again of a repeated burial or
location of a previous victim with the remains of another victim,
and we actually, like I said, we're going to see
that happening in the I forty five cases as we
move on through this presentation. I have Karl Wilson on there,

(32:48):
but I'm not sure why. Another one that I xed
out as being related to the Golden State Killer, which
was on December thirtieth of nineteen seventy nine, Robert Offerman
and Deborah Manning in Golita, San die It was a
home invasion like the other Golita, Texas and Lipstick John
Bennet Ramsay. They were shot to death after being tied up.
Killer brought white German shepherd with him to the killing,

(33:11):
and the dog was missing. One toe broke into a
vacant house next door and stole a bicycle, and that
is going to bring I have bicycle references with Arizona,
Atlanta Golda, the East Area rapist, and the original Knight
Stocker from Golada murders are one and the same person.
Once again, per law enforcement and the DNA tests, these
crime stopped in nineteen eighty six. I'll try not to

(33:33):
keep rereading that, but I have notated each one of
these murders that were associated with him. Recent discovery and
matching DNA's yielded Sacramento County a suspect named Joseph James DiAngelo,
seventy two years of age and former police officer for
twenty six, twenty eighteen press release Sheriff Scott Jones, DA
Sacramento County and more officials. It is interesting that I'd

(33:56):
already excluded this case as a possible for Jack, But
I just want to note that we're again that six
degrees two degrees, whatever they say it is, we are
from anything. Joseph DeAngelo actually worked with one of my
great girlfriends I've known for more than thirty years at
Save March. She worked with him for twelve years. He
was a mechanic there on the trucks and big rigs

(34:18):
that she drives, and she spent many occasions fishing with
him and enjoying his company, and would never have picked
up on the fact that he hated women or otherwise. Oh,
I love you, Harriet, soouche. I just got a Mary.
I just got a message from her. It says, I'm
here in the hospital listening to this show. You go girl.

(34:40):
We're reaching out to you. We love you, We hope
you heal soon. Can't wait to have you back and
continue on with the wonderful solves that you've been coming
up with. All right, that brings us to winter winter
March of nineteen eighty or Okay, so this picture is
only lit DID eighty on the back, so it occurred

(35:02):
in nineteen eighty. And when I look at the trees
around it, we're either just before spring or right after fall.
So that's why I listed March or November of nineteen eighty,
because that could really only be the two possibilities for
having bear trees. In the background, we see pictures of
Butch and Terry's wedding in Reno, Nevada. Surroundings appear to
be either early nineteen eighty before bloom or late nineteen

(35:23):
eight or eighty after fall nineteen eighty, Jack's daughter moved
into the trailer space as we'd heard Dennis talk about
on Auburn Boulevard, and we know that again. I mean,
there's really nobody off limits to Jack in this family.
I've heard from his ex wife who indicated he attempted
to smother her with a pillow. Now we're hearing Dennis

(35:43):
recall a story about Jack strangling his daughter. Dennis believes
that Jack was ultimately responsible for killing his mother In
the end. We know that he killed several family pets,
and we know that he was an avid hunter of
small and large game. So this man, but again nobody,
was not on his list in terms of what he
might do to actually harm or kill something. I do

(36:08):
need to do some research on this, but I thought
it was worth putting in here in nineteen eighty one
a possible murder time frame. This was provided to me
by Moonlight, she used to be around again. She felt
like she had been so invaded and her systems had
been hacked, and that people were literally trying to take
down all the research that she's done. I was able

(36:30):
to keep some of that research and enter it into
the PowerPoint presentation. So this was not my find, which
is why I really probably should have done the research
before now. But I really don't find a lot on
these old murders, So sometimes it just seems futile to
go through the Internet for hours and hours looking for
something I'm just not gonna find it, says the murder

(36:51):
of an Arizona Deborah Carrit. Her belongings were brought back
to hitchhiker killer body dump site to frame the Zodiac
came and noally the Imperial as she called it. So
I don't know if you guys remember the personal ad
that we talked about quite some time ago, in which
case it was reaching out to Zodiac, but it also
talked about other signs of what astrology puts out there.

(37:16):
Libra I think it was. And then there was one
other but also the Imperial as if to say something
related to like the KKK, which is something that Harriet
Souchet has brought up in some of those communications as solves.
So she Moonlight is saying that it was to frame
Manali and Anderson, which both purportedly had committed self murder.

(37:39):
Manali worked for a temp period for a temp period
at sam Quentin. Did he help spring the Anguin Brothers
with Ko and Golden Stirtle, which mystery mysteriously died in
nineteen seventy five, which is Kim's biological dad. I'm not
sure who she's referring to as Kim, but between seventy
four and seventy six seems to be all the zk

(38:01):
MK's die leaving the Master and I think that she
again is referring to others that are in the group.
Who is the zk MK ultra. I don't know, but
she did list a a URL. It looks like here's
so veteran Doe. Is this individual that we're going to
talk about right now, John Doe from Napa, California. John

(38:23):
Doe was found I believe, at Mount Meter, California. It
says race was white, sex was male. Couldn't estimate the weight,
height was in inches sixty eight. Estimated hair color possibly brown,
eye color unknown or missing circumstances probably year of death
was nineteen eighty one to nineteen eighty two. Estimated or

(38:46):
mortem interval fifteen years. It says skeletal remains found on
a secluded hillside residence while property was being surveyed for
new owner. Scene appeared to be at least ten to
fifteen years old. Skeletal remains out over one hundred feet
on hillside down a deer trail, evidence of animal bites
to the skull. The Ruger Bearcat twenty two caliber revolver

(39:09):
discovered under the body gun traced to Burglary in Arizona.
So now we have this criss crossing and I think
that's why she put in here the murder of Deborah
Carrick from Arizona, so it's possible that that murder took
place in Arizona with Deborah Carrick, and this gun was
then stolen while the suspect was in Arizona and then

(39:29):
came back to California and committed a murder with that
it says. A Smirnoff vodka bottle and Budweiser beer cans
also were on the scene. Dates on the bottle and
cans were allotted to nineteen eighty one. The twenty two
caliber AMMO found in a handmade leather backpack, so again,
handmade items are something we see that Jack is very

(39:53):
good at doing. A single gunshot wound found on the
right side of the head, lower jaw was missing. Numerous
bones found, but not a complete skeleton. Totality of circumstances
during the investigation led investigators to believe that this was
a suicide by a handgun. However, well, then it would
suggest that he was also the person who committed the

(40:15):
murder in Arizona and stole that gun. But then why
come back to California and commit suicide. Other distinctive physical
characteristics calcium build up on one leg. Bone recovered led
anthropologists to believe that the decedent might have ridden horses.
Very interesting. John Doe, California, twenty six to thirty two

(40:40):
years old, white male, located on October seventeenth, nineteen ninety seven,
in Mount Veter, Napa County, California. Dental work makes them
believe the man was affluent or in the military, Possible
connections to Phoenix, Arizona area and horse riding. Additional information
says Mount ved Man Or, Napa. John Doe was an
adult male discovered in California in nineteen ninety seven. He's

(41:01):
believed to be deceased for several years prior to his discovery,
and his death may have occurred as early as nineteen eighty.
His cause of death was a gunshot. However, authorities do
not know if it was due to homicide or suicide.
And the gallery exclusions of John Phillips. I'm not sure
why she put that in there either. Sometimes I do
wish that Moon Night was still around with us so

(41:22):
that she could explain some of this stuff to me. Anyways,
we do have a picture of Jack in nineteen eighty.
I look at this picture and I just don't even
recognize this man. He looks so different from one errand
to the next, as if he's ever changing his looks.
March fourth of nineteen eighty, Angel Lanaire twelve years old

(41:43):
in Atlanta, Georgia. So now this is our next murder
back in the Atlanta Georgia Killings, as the first female
victim of this series strangled and tied to a tree
and possibly sexually assaulted with an object. On March eleven
of nineteen eighty, Jeffrey Mathis disappeared and was never found
from Atlanta, Georgia. Again, we have another one of the

(42:05):
Bay Area or I'm sorry, the Golden State Killers, which
was on March thirteenth of nineteen eighty. I always led
into this because it always appeared when, like I said,
when the murder in Atlanta, Georgia happened, that we would
shortly after see something happening in Texas and then back
in California again, as if he was making his travel
back through and up to northern California. On April twenty

(42:28):
fourth of nineteen eighty, Robin Brooks in Sacramento, California was murdered.
She was twenty years old, found murdered in her apartment.
She worked for a donut shop on Keefer Boulevard in
Tallahoe Drive near Power In Dumps and it is on
the murder map of Sandy Betts. Then we had a
slew of murders that occurred in Atlanta back to back.

(42:52):
Basically it looks like May eighteenth of nineteen eighty. We
had Eric Middlebrooks in Atlanta. On June ninth of nineteen
eight Chris Richardson disappeared and was never found in Atlanta.
June twenty second of nineteen eighty, Latanya Wilson disappeared in Atlanta.
June twenty third of nineteen eighty, Aaron Wyke disappeared in Atlanta.

(43:12):
So very busy month in June for the Atlanta, Georgia
child killer. July sixth of nineteen eighty, Anthony Carter was
murdered in Atlanta. And July eighth of nineteen eighty, so
again very close in time frame, twenty three year old
Barbara Gale Witten, Newkiny, Texas, off Roman Forest Boulevard. Black

(43:33):
female burned in a wood area, shot multiple times with
a twenty two caliber firearms. So now we can see
again the shooting and the burning of the bodies. These
things that are that are really kind of overlapping with
the mos. So either this is just the way the
mob got down or this is the way the Zodiac
got down. Two white males were seen at the scene
putting something in the truck of a medium blue Chevy

(43:54):
Nova with two navy blue racing stripes. So again we're
back to that blue veal that was spoken about in
some of the earlier Atlanta cases, with one final murder
on July, not final, but at least for the month.
July thirtieth of nineteen eighty, Earl Terrell was murdered in Atlanta.
Then we have coming back into California again something that

(44:18):
is associated to the Golden State Killer, on August eighth
of nineteen eighty in the Dana Point, San Diego area.
On August twentieth, the nineteen eighty, we see the murders
pick back up again in Atlanta with Clifford Jones. On
August twenty sixth, we have Ronda Michelle Baylock in North
Carolina again picked up in a blue Chevy with a
white camper shell. Now we know that Jack owned a

(44:39):
blue pickup truck with a white camper Shell, So that's likely.
While I threw this one in, but you don't have
any information that supports he was in northern California. Again,
sometimes these end up in the presentation simply because they
are unsolved and everything should be considered, no matter how
far apart they are, and no matter what the timeframe is,
because we know that j was all over the United States.

(45:03):
Another murder occurs in Atlanta, Georgia child killer on September
fourteenth of nineteen eighty, which is Darren Glass in Atlanta,
and then on October ninth, nineteen eighty. Charles Stevens was
killed in Atlanta. In November first of nineteen eighty, so
following the Atlanta murders, we have a fourteen to seventeen
year old Jane Joe number one. It's a Texas murder

(45:26):
found dumped along I forty five about five miles north
of Huntsville, strangled with pantyhose and was found nude. Bite
marks were on her body. Now this is out of
character for the Zodiac Killer. I mean, clearly we've not
heard anything like this up to this point. But we
do know that in the Black Dahlia and several of
the other murders. There were mutilations that took place, so

(45:47):
I put nothing past this person. The body was five
foot four inches one hundred and ten pounds in brown hair.
Then in November first of nineteen eighty, we have Aaron
Jackson at Atlanta, Georgia, and then I wrote down probably
not Jack. On November ninth of nineteen eighty, Valerie MacDonald
and San Francisco found in British Columbia, Canada. There has

(46:09):
been a Canadian connection that I hadn't found yet with
the zodiac and the Tim Miller letter, but now we're
starting to see that Canadian connection after I've done some
more research. Philip A. Thompson was a possible Jack associate.
She was told that they could get her into the movies,
and it is not on the murder map of Sandy Betts.
On November tenth of nineteen eighty, we have Patrick Rogers

(46:32):
again killed in Atlanta, Georgia. And then I had an
interesting It looks like a letter that was sent or
at least a notification sent by an attorney in regards
to one of Jack's relatives. And the reason why I
found it interesting is because we show Jack Terrence on
here twice. One is being deceased and one is being alive,
and we're going to explain that information because the addresses

(46:54):
are not making any sense to me. November fifteenth of
nineteen eighty Jack's relative Lena Dare dies in New Mexico.
And maybe this is that New Mexico connection with the
Constellation Mountains. Dennis used to tell me about that Jack
had taken off for a month at a time to
Oklahoma to buy pot. He also had gone into the

(47:16):
Constellation Mountains in New Mexico. I believe it was with
two individuals, and Jack chuckles when he says only two
of us came out, so as if to say they
killed somebody in that particular area. Well, it looks like
I'm down to about my last minute. Well it says
I've got another minute, in two minutes, in some seconds.
Let me see if I can make it through this.

(47:38):
So it actually shows that there is a living cousin
called Jack Terrence on Route one Willing, Oklahoma. And I
thought that was odd because we know that the only
other Jack Terrence was Jack's father, who had long passed.
I mean he died when Jack was twelve, so they
couldn't have been referring to Jack the father. They must
be referring to Jack Terrence, and they list an address

(47:59):
for him currently in nineteen eighty at Wellington, Oklahoma. When
I questioned Dennis about that, that's when he said that
Jack would take off for a month at a time
to go to Oklahoma to bipod and that is likely
where maybe he picked it up. I'm not sure. The
letter on this is postmarked October nineteen eighty from Bobby
Lyons estate October nineteen eighty. Jack's residence is still the

(48:21):
forty four twenty eight Alburn Boulevard, verified by the attorney
who mailed him in regards to being an heir and
by a neighbor who gave an interview on Jack at
ancestry dot Com also shows Jack here in nineteen eighty one,
so we do have enough information to show that he
was in the place that Dennis was talking about. I
think at this point I'm probably going to well, let
me see, we'll talk about real quick. Jack W. Terrence

(48:45):
is now listed as a deceased cousin, but it shows
his address at forty four twenty eight Alburn Boulevard, so
I'm not sure if this was just a clerical error
because JW. Terrence was Jack's father, he was in fact deceased,
but he couldn't have currently been living in Auburn Boulevard
in nineteen eighty so I'm not sure where the disconnect
happened in this information, but clearly this attorney has reached

(49:07):
out to both locations and even sent a letter to
the address where the deceased cousin lives. So again, I'm
just a little confused by the information, but it definitely
shows that we have Jack wandering around the United States.
So I think that's about all we have for today.
You guys. I wish Harriet well. I hope your recovery
is speedy. I hope everybody has a wonderful holiday. Merry

(49:30):
Christmas to those who celebrate Christmas, and happy Holidays to
those that don't. I will see you next Friday. Everybody
have a wonderful weekend.