June 27, 2025 • 50 mins
Getting back to the Zodiac Killer, Jack’s whereabouts, and new communications. Texas is seeing a ramp up in murders during times that Jack would naturally visit his mother, and witnesses recall a security officer or police officer uniform on the suspect. Work reports from Jack as a security sergeant on contract to Hewlett Packard shows he has a natural lack of respect for women.
Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
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Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/hit-the-road-jack-finding-the-zodiac--5297837/support.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You should seek the services.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Good morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
I'm excited to be back actually into the presentation. We
have a year full of murders of Jack's whereabouts, what
he's doing with Hewlett Packard, and of course a new
communication that's just out of the blue. Actually there's about
(01:15):
three of them, two of which I'm not quite sure
their origination or what those letters said. They were found
in the FBI Foy files. But we're going to try
and get to the bottom of those, and of course
helping me with that today is Harriet Soouchet.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Yes, good morning, good today.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, we're just climbing right back in at this point.
So if there is somebody in the murder scheme here
that you have either seen their name in any of
the communications, or have information in regards to them, then please,
you know, interject and climb in, because I'm really just
gonna run through these rather quickly. A lot of them
don't have a lot of information in regards to them
(02:01):
other than they where they died or maybe where they
were taken from, and of course the manner of death.
Other than that, there's just not a lot of information
out there on the internet since the murders are so old,
and they actually kind of pre date the time that
things were being loaded onto the internet, so we don't
see a lot of information on these unsolved murders. So basically,
(02:26):
we left off at the end of October nineteen eighty four,
so we're climbing right back into November nineteen eighty four,
and we have Robert William Hope, thirty two years of age.
It looks like he was on the eighteen hundred block
of North Park Kingwood, Texas at two pm. A constable
(02:46):
was attempting to serve Hope with civil papers at his
residence and found him lying face down in the kitchen
shop multiple times. Now, it doesn't indicate whether or not
they felt this was a robbery, which I usually do
see those you know, mentioned in some of the information.
So if there wasn't a robbery that occurred here, then
it sounds to me like somebody had a personal grudge.
(03:09):
Christmas of nineteen eighty four, we know that we are
seeing Christmas at the Kirby Street address via Nora's handwriting
on the back of the pictures. It does indicate in
Jack's paperwork his probation report that he is at this
same address, though I did not see any pictures of
him during this timeframe. And we know that previous to this,
(03:32):
Jack and Nora had gone through a divorce and Jack
had the assault with a deadly weapon charge that he
is on probation for, which is why we are seeing
these reports as described. And when I'm looking at these
Christmas pictures, I of course I was a kid during
these timeframes, and if you had you had parents that
(03:56):
were not working or in between work. As much as
we saw Jack during these years, we see what I
consider to be a huge amount of presents, you know,
I mean, for any typical household, they have approximately four
children at this point. We can see here is Charles
to the left and Dennis to the right. In this
(04:17):
Christmas picture here. We know that Dennis has two sisters,
so we're working with four children here that we have
to provide Christmas for. And at this point in time,
Jack is merely making about three hundred and twelve dollars
bi weekly, So breaking that down is basically one hundred
and fifty six dollars a week. So where is this
(04:37):
extra money coming for? Or from? Should I say? I mean,
we see pipes, we see all kinds of stuff that's
going on in here.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
He's working, but he's just not officially working.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
He's he's definitely working well.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
And I mean one hundred and fifty six dollars a week.
That sounds even awfully low for that time frame.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Maybe even to say that he's not even working full time.
I mean one hundred and fifty six dollars, what does that?
Oh God, if I wanted to break that down to
forty if he was actively doing forty hours for one
hundred and fifty six dollars a week, I mean you're
talking three dollars an hour.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
It's yeah, it would basically be I think close to
minimum wage of the time period.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Maybe that's something I should be Wow. Yeah, And a
security guard at that so you've got, you know, the
dangers of being a security guard because your job is
to protect, and of course that means that sometimes, as
we'll see in some of Jack's reports, you're coming up
against some violent offenders even though they're working at the
Hewlett Packard plant. All right, m hm switch. I did
(05:58):
find a new article in my research from the Lake
very Essa murders. So I thought this one was interesting
to read because again it takes us back to the hood,
which we've been talking about the way that media has
portrayed it. Oh my gosh. All right, hold up, let's
talk about media portrayal just for one second. I did
not really want to climb into anything on the nine
(06:21):
to eleven attacks, but I did watch a documentary on
it a few nights ago. Of course, they were still
hard hitting at Oh goodness, Ivans and hat film. Of
course half film. We know that they dove in deep
on him, stating he was the possible suspect, which then
(06:42):
hat Phil sued because he was not the suspect and
he won a ridiculous amount of money in the area
of millions, and so of course they had focused on
Ivans first, then they focused on Hatville and then they
went back and focused on Ivans again, and at the
end of the documentary, the media portrayed that the case
(07:03):
was closed on February nineteenth of twenty ten on Ivans,
and I about fell out of my chair when this happened.
Do you recall that period in our life when we
were dealing.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
With I believe they closed it. They just automatically said
he so homicided and.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
That was it.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Well when they Dennis and I were together at this
particular point in time, when we about lost our minds
when we saw the press release that the FBI stated
that they were closing the anthrax case on Ivans. Now
when we lost our crap, I of course called then
the FBI investigator and explained to him that we had
(07:45):
looked at the handwriting and they're closing it on the
wrong person. And we literally had to wait almost an
entire week to get anything back. But on February twenty
sixth of twenty ten, the Congress came back out with
the press release a follow up to the FBI and said,
you were not closing this case on Ivans. He doesn't
match them, His handwriting doesn't match. There is no way
(08:09):
you're going to close this on this man, you don't
have the evidence to do so. Now, the press release
for them closing the case went worldwide, like everybody, So
this same tangent that the media uses to go out
there and create mass confusion like the case having been closed,
(08:29):
was that they that went all over the world. But
then a week later, on February twenty six, when the
press release from Congress came out said no, you're not
closing the case on Ivans. That was at a bare minimum,
a complete, little, tiny, little press release that got almost
little to no attention, and I half believed that it
probably didn't even play across the world as it did
(08:51):
when they released the fact they were going to close
the case on Ivans. So they put out mass media
in regards to a closure, and very little words are
said about the act that Nope, nothing matches, guys, you
are not closing this case on Ivans. So imagine my
shock when I'm watching this particular documentary to see that
at the end of it. You know how they always
like give you a this person ended up doing six years,
(09:13):
or this person ended up putting out or this is
what happened. So at the very end, of this documentary.
Across the screen came the words the case has been
closed on Bruce Ivans on February nineteenth of twenty ten.
What a freaking joke that these documentaries can get away
with this, and where do they get their information if
they didn't actively investigate the fact that there was a
(09:34):
follow up from Congress saying you're not closing this case
on Ivans. He doesn't match.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
He wouldn't be the first person.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I I was just going to say, I remember seeing
those letters on Boit's Zodiac dot com and he was saying,
it looks this handwriting match. He was saying it, this
handwriting matches the Zodiac.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
I guess he's alive. I remember that. I remember here Fials.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I was like, I remember hearing I remember hearing the
same thing, just you know, the public muddling about after
the nine to eleven and the anthrax attacks making a
statement that the anthrax letters were mailed by the Zodiac,
and I thought these people were freaking nuts. I'm like
this guy, he was nothing but a serial killer for
(10:25):
a very short period of time back in the sixty
sixty eight sixty nine era. You guys are absolutely nuts.
Little did I know what I'd be climbing into and
what the zodiac was truly apart.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Its right, it's Jack Finds one on one handwriting the stamps.
Everything I've done to all of those it's mind blowing yes,
And we will be making those connections later on. So
in this particular article here, this.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Is where I want to say that this was something
that was developed in something that came out shortly after
the murders, the murder at Lake Berry sn the attempted
murder of Brian Hart. Now, but the media literally controls
the narrative for what the public's going to believe. And
at some point in time when they decided, and I
don't know if it was Robert gray Smith that put
it out there in attempts to try and dispel the
(11:15):
truth about the hood itself, but they perpetrated this square
hood that supposedly like a paper sack on top upside
down on someone's head, when anybody who has ever dealt
with material knows that a material square shaped hood is
not going to sit upright in a square manner like that.
So I highly disbelieve the notion that gray Smith has
(11:38):
given us, or Voight has given us or any of
these other people in the med that this thing was
actually like a paper sack upside down versus what we're
going to read in this article. So it says nap
a slaying. Scores of tips are checked out. NAP and
Valao authorities investigated scores of tips on the suspected code
killer today, the day of the funeral of the latest victim,
(11:59):
Active blonde co ed Cecilia and Shepherd twenty two. The
leads resulted from the publication of composite sketches and a
description of the suspects seen at Lake Barriessa by the
three girls about three hours before the stabbing of miss
Shepherd and her boyfriend Brian Hart now twenty Now. The
interesting part is that they claim that the suspect that
(12:22):
they're looking for is something that is stalking these three
girls or standing around gawking at them. If you will,
you can go to just about any beach and be
gawkeed at. There's always some creeper in the corner that's
staring at all the females. Doesn't make them killers, but
it's interesting that they're now focusing on this particular suspect.
It says, however, neither sheriffs nor police officers reported locating
(12:44):
the likely slayer of four young persons since last December,
still serious. Meanwhile, Hartnell remained on the serious list and
under protective guard at Queen of the Valley Hospital. The
services for the University of California at Riverside Senior Music
major are scheduled at two pm today in the sanctuary
of Pacific Union College church. She attended that college before
(13:06):
transferring this year. Authorities awaited the results of fingerprint comparisons
by the computerized laboratories of the FBI in Washington, d C.
Prints were obtained from a payphone booth in Napa, from
which the killer apparently reported the crime to police. Now,
what I want to know is is that, for Heaven's sake,
you're talking about a public payphone. Do you know how
(13:26):
many people back in the day were actively using these things?
Everybody and their mother?
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Yeah, so, so many fingerprints are on.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
There my hands, and how do we determine which ones
are actively those of the Zodiac killer. Doesn't mean that
they made identification of all other finger prints on that phone,
on that phone booth except for one set, and that
they then attributed that to the Zodiac. I'm just I
really want to understand how they sorted this information outing.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
They were making sure and that's my opinion.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
I mean, it's it's inevitable that they get to the phone,
they know he's going.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
To use it.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
It's cleaned off, he rans it, it's all staged. And
this is this is a huge conspiracy to go after
who they believed has something to do with kill for
these two. It has something to do with who killed
Martin Luther King. That's the souls I got Christmas friends
(14:28):
of the Kennedys.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
So I feel like the Zodiac Killer making note in
one of his communications that he will cement airplane cement
on his fingertips. Do you prevent any source of fingerprints
being left behind? I feel like that was him calling
out the media because he automatically already knew that the
media was telling stories.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Well, how about the poem prints on the phone, all
this stuff that could be the wood of some maybees.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Well, why would you why would you do just your fingers?
If you wouldn't do your entire hand.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
You'll be like this and the old fashioned phone.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
No, no, I get how you'd hold it, but I mean,
obviously the Zodiac understands countermeasures to being caught, and how
to cover up the type of forensics that they would
use to make identifications. Why would you only apply it
to your fingertips and not to your entire hand. I
mean your hand, every your entire hand has a surface
of ridges that can be specifically identified creases. I mean,
(15:34):
there's a lot of identification that's found inside the palm,
not just on the fingerprints. Well, anyway, with.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
The mindset that it was pretty much a conspiracy to
do these things, and somebody who's following him and said, oh, yeah,
that's our guy. He's on the phone now, and you know,
verify that the prints are his, but they just disappear.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
You know, Well, I've.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Seen the palm print. It's not clear enough for me
to make out the ridges on it, but it definitely
they definitely have one in the case file. But how
are again, how are we to know that those are
the zodiacs? Again, I'm just just bring that out.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
There's all these speculations I'm going with that they were
taking pictures from above.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
With the satellites.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
We were the only people that really had those satellite
kept capabilities to do.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
That at that time.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Yeah, that's where Robert Abel comes in and NASA and
all that you know, right there in Texas where Jack
was very familiar with. So the guys in the sky,
the Ice of Texas are upon you all the live
long day, the Ice of Texas.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Huh okay that out of that, well, it goes on
to say they were. They also were tracing a light
blue Chevrolet driven by the suspect and other evidence left
at the knifeing scene, a remote Southwest Lake shore spot.
So again I still have not seen the words Chevy
and Paula from any of these individuals. And like I said,
(17:05):
we determined that the vehicle that Nora had that Jack
may have had access to, was a Chevy Biscayne, but
it was a two door light blue Chevy. And here
it says it just says light blue Chevrolet. So I
still haven't seen the words in any of the communicator
or i'm any of the articles or police reports or
(17:26):
otherwise that stayed specific the specific model a vehicle, just
a light blue Chevrolet. So it says. A psychiatrist suggested
today the slayer may be psychotic rather than psychopathic. This
is indicated he said, by his full blown delusions. Also,
he may be hopped up with narcotics or dangerous drugs
(17:46):
at the time of his murders, which may account for
the laughing frenzies he goes into during the crimes. So
let's talk about that for a minute. I mean, we
definitely see Jack in some psychotic pictures. I mean, he
looks absolutely insane after killing the next door neighbors animals. Yeah,
we know that he did meet them beta means, and
(18:08):
he made met them beta means. It's something that he
taught Dennis how to do, and Dennis picked up on
and continued with. And so this whole laughing frenzy and
the notion that he may be on drugs are all
still consistent. Jack cannot be excluded from that. And that's
another thing, you know, I almost want to discuss about
all of these other fake suspects. Nobody has any evidence
(18:28):
that these individuals were involved with drugs. But we're going
to talk about some of the things that the Zodiac
did say which are consistent with some of the things
that we're looking at.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Well, we know that he's constantly looking for that cure,
the peote stamp.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Thing, right, Well, but I think that's outside of and
that's a drug in itself.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
I mean honestly, I.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Mean, I'm from the Nampa area.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
I knew older people who were doing that crazy stuff.
Let's go in everything.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
But anyway, so we know he's got some weird connection
to that, and he's trying.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
To rank and here's on the hood they said there.
There also was speculation that the squareish again squareish. I
love that they use the proper word to describe because
instead of being pointed, instead of being rounded, we had
a squarish hood. They did not say square like a
(19:24):
paper sack. They did not give any specific indications as
to what that top looked like. But again, we know
how material works, and that simpainly would not have stood
up the way they portrayed in their books. In the media,
the squarish black hood worn by the Killer at Lake
Berry Esa may be similar to those worn by some
motorcycle gangs, or the idea for it may have originated
in a comic strip which shows an executioner with a
(19:47):
squarish black hood and big islets plus a curly cue
symbol on his chest, or it may be a combination
of both. Did you find what comic strip they were
talking about that that was in?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
I think that would be something like way back there,
thirties forties, which when we know we're dealing with first
the big newspapers of the.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Time, comic strips. Yeah, I'm always using something, yeah, always
using something from the media. We do know that Jack
did ride motorcycle. He had a motorcycle that was purportedly
owned by Doris Reynolds, but he was in possession of it,
and when he had brought back Danny Reynolds to his
house in South Lake, Tahoe, he had to file a
(20:37):
police report against Danny Reynolds for attempting or having stolen
this motorcycle, even though it had been wrecked and probably
wasn't in a good running position. Jack reported it as
being stolen even though it was technically owned by Danny's mom.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
All right, I think it's the motorcycle that he was
allegedly driving the night that he busted up his shoulder
leaving Cooper time that Dennis said he remembered that.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
It's a little I mean emphatically, he remembered.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
It right well, And evidently it is true in formed,
because we are seeing that stuff in police reports, as
indicated earlier in the presentation. So now this brings me
back to Dennis Kaufman's book, in which case he has
a He's got a little bit to say here. It
says nineteen eighty five, Jack is still on probation for
pulling a gun on Mary and I, and he is
(21:31):
eventually released from probation six months early for good behavior.
Jack has been working for three years at this time.
This is the longest Jack ever worked since we met him.
I believe that he stopped killing after his arrest in
nineteen eighty three until years later when he would start
where he had left off. And that's why I say
we're going about to pick up pretty heavy. In nineteen
eighty five, it says from nineteen eighty five through nineteen
(21:54):
eighty eight, Jack was deeply into hypnosis. He said that
he could reprogram his subconscious mind by us self hypnosis.
I never thought about it, but I wonder what he
was trying to reprogram. Was it his desire to kill?
By nineteen eighty six, Jack appeared to everyone that he
was a changed man. It had been five years since
he quit drinking, and even apologized to me about how
(22:16):
he had treated me when I was growing up. Jack
worked and lived in the same place for nine years
until he retired at age sixty three in nineteen ninety one. Asterix.
I'm sure that Jack felt pretty comfortable wearing his security
uniform because he looked like a police officer and no
one would ever suspect him of anything. During his three
(22:37):
year involvement with self hypnosis, he would try and detach
himself from his body. He wanted to leave his body
and travel around in a formless state. In nineteen eighty eight,
Jack achieved this goal. He said that he had lifted
up out of his body and that it is all
he would say. He never talked about or practiced hypnosis. Again,
Jack had experienced something that scared the shit out of him.
(22:59):
How would he or he would never talk about what
he had experienced. So over here on the right hand corner,
we can see this self hypgnosis symbol that Dennis is
talking about that Jack would use. I believe he said
that he would use a penny on a string.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Yeah, pendulum, pendulum.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
So basically, as you look around this, you see clockwise,
you see clockwise, you see I'm not sure what the
c W is. Clockwise clockwise, so that's all clockwise and
then counterclockwise. But he has a CWI, and I'm not
sure what that means. But the other thing.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Is means counterclockwise.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
It's still well, but yeah, so CCW is counterclockwise. So
this one CCW going colounterclockwise, and then there's CW CWCW,
but then c W I on the bottom left quarter
of this particular circle. The part that really interests me
is that at the top it says, don't know, So
(24:01):
you just don't know the answer.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Okay, venis I don't know. That's what it is.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I don't want to know. Okay. He placed that eye
so close to the CW that it's part of the
actual statement. So at the top it indicates if the
pendulum swings in this area in a particular order, that
he doesn't know the answer to the question. And at
the bottom it says, I don't want to know.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
That's you know, it's I have a pendulum upstairs. If
I remember right, it was supposed to be on the string.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
I can tell you that when Dennis wrote this book
he did not know the things that I know, like
the association to the letters from Tom Voice to Tom
Voy from the Zodiac killer, also the experience that the
Zodiac described in this letter to Tom Voight is very similar,
and I'm going to read a bit of that to you,
(24:58):
even though we're not not into yet when these letters
are actually written to Tom Voit. But if we looked
where he said he wanted to be lifted up out
of his body, and that is all he would say
now in a letter direct to Tomvod from the Zodiac Killer,
it says, in those years, I was an LSD and
heroin addict with a taste for the bizarre, subcultural and
(25:20):
underground lifestyles. I would have brownouts of consciousness that could
literally last for days. In that state I experienced the
graphic deeds of the Zodiac Killer is if I was
an observer, not the perpetrator. So that's as if to
say he is up and out of his body.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
I mean he's under mk ultra.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I got myself all kinds of goosebumps right now.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Those two I'm getting, okay, ok.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Those two statements, one from Dennis one from the Zodiac
are so closely related to each other in the sense
it's like hypnosis in itself is supposed to be lifting
you up out of your body. Basically, what did Jack recognize?
What came to mind? What hit Jack, and what scared
(26:17):
Jack now intrigues me just as much as it probably
did Dennis. Another series of murders that were going on
during this time was twelve homeless people in Bombay, India.
They called them the Stoneman murders, but obviously this gained
national intention and was all over the world that these
were taking place. May again been just for media sales
(26:42):
and again newspapers, who knows. I mean, honestly speaking, every
time I see one of these things pop up and
disappear as fast as they started, it always makes me
wonder what's really going on, because this just truly is
not how serial killers work. They take a break, sure,
but then they eventually come back around again. I mean,
it's not very often you see them go through killing
spreez to never ever do it again. I mean, how
(27:04):
do you get your kicks off of something like that
and then control it for the rest of your life
to never do it again. On March sixth of nineteen
eighty five, we have an Hewlett Packard report from Jack
that shows him still at Hewlett Packard. He is complimenting
an officer who seemingly has a problem with other female
employees and behaves in a manner less than acceptable, but
(27:26):
Jack is giving him a recommendation. It really kind of
speaks volumes to Jack's ability or willingness to allow women
to be degraded and then still promote that male in
the face of that type of degradation. So at sea
here this is what the report says. Officer Browning has
(27:47):
had several complaints registered against him by employees at Heleott Packard,
especially female employees, that his conversation with them has been
less than desirable and to the point of vulgar insinuations.
He has had one complaint from a female employee that
he touched her in such a way that was undesirable.
On several occasions, Officer Browning's off key jokes have been
(28:08):
told in such a loud voice that the HP employees
have found them to be undesirable and have commented about
his contact being very unbecoming of that of a security officer.
During his tour of duty at Hewlett Packard, Soo Browning
has proven his ability and knowledge of his job. He
has been a willing and reliable worker and cooperative fellow employee,
(28:29):
and it is felt that his talents could be used
to CPP's advantage at a different post. So I mean,
I get kind of sickened by this that he is promoting.
Is okay, he doesn't fit in an HP because of
his innuendos and his jokes and his flippant behavior towards females.
(28:52):
I mean, we clearly didn't have a zero tolerance policy
back in nineteen eighty five, because otherwise this guy wouldn't
be getting away with this stuff. It had been fired
on the spot.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Can I say something, because this is one of the
biggest reasons I ended up in the Zodiac cases. This
is I believe, almost ten years to the day, where
I witnessed some really strange activities of laundry like Zodiac
laid out a certain way at Sigmund Stern Grove and
(29:25):
my mind's I can still see it looks like it's
uniform material, like the uniforms they wore there. And it
was a woman and a man that had been found
in the in the pond or there, face down, and
I never got to find out what that was about,
but I remember those that clothing, and it's almost ten
(29:46):
years to the day. It was nineteen ninety five. It
scared my dog so much she never wanted to go
back to the park there. So this is another reason
why I got into the Zodiac cases. That was Zodiac
one on one to laundry everything.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Well, I mean this letter speaks to me in a
couple different ways. One, there's a disregard for females, and
we can see that clearly. If he's going to promote
a person or state that a person should, you know,
go to another spot because he's offended too many females
here rather than having been fired, then there's a disregard
for females. Second off is that the I forty five
(30:24):
killings and the Texas murders. I have read on several
occasions that people had witnessed somebody who appeared to be
either in a police or a security uniform, that they
looked like a professional assisting someone on the side of
the road before that person either went missing or was
found dead. So we have that Jack again, is it? Yeah, Well,
(30:49):
he's in possession of it. I don't know that it
links him as much as you can't exclude him because
of it. You know, he's now fitting the description during
a timeframe that a rational murders or and they believe
that a possible suspect was wearing some type of a uniform,
and Jack is in possession of ones, and we see
him back and forth to Texas all the time. In fact,
(31:13):
here's one trip back to Texas. So we do know
that he completed this final report that we got the
information from. About who he's working from for Pinkerton, well
it's Hewlett Packard, but he's on contract from Pinkerton, and
of course he doesn't mail it until for one of
nineteen eighty five. I'm not sure who gets away with that,
because you obviously did not comply with your rules of
(31:35):
probation if you're not filling out your reports properly and
timely and getting them in when they should be when
they should be sent in. This report was written September
first of nineteen eighty four, but not mailed until April
of nineteen eighty five, which is where we're sitting now.
We see another report from Jack. It says on four
six eighty five, fifteen hundred, which is approximately three pm,
(31:58):
I received the telephone call and the caller stated that
referred to INCID that Annette Slagel was stealing computers from HP.
Referred to Incident of one hundred thousand dollars computers stolen
in January of eighty five. Caller said she was supporting
her cocaine habit real deep voice. I did not hear
any background noises. I tried to get I love that
(32:20):
he spelled. Tried with why to get the caller to
identify himself, no success, and he spelled that with one s.
So we see some of these habits that we seen
by the zodiac to not use the proper double letters
to misspell words. Jack's got it honest. April sixth and
nineteen eighty five. That HP report Okay, wait a minute,
(32:43):
describe deep voice, but no identity and again not sure
why he kept these reports. See these are reports that
I physically copied from his belongings all the way in
two thousand and nine and beyond. I mean, he dies
in two thousand and six, but he lugged this stuff
around and kept it for a particular reason for sure. Jack.
(33:04):
Then we see this here, Jack is in Texas again
in nineteen eighty five, and it says on the back
of this picture Granny d in Texas in front of
their house or trailer in nineteen eighty five. Now, if
I'm not wrong, I thought Dennis had said that Jack
bought that trailer for Flova.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
I believe so, yeah, I know that it Yeah, yeah, so,
And of course the only reason why I state that
Jack is in fact there is that we see his
VW behind them, So this is actively Jack's VW.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
We've seen it in other pictures already on other trips
that he'd made it back to Texas. So we definitely,
we definitely know Jack's here during that time. And what
timeframe that is, we could only kind of try to
guesstimate based on the foliage on the trees, possibly indicating
that it's definitely not winter or after fall, so it's
(34:01):
going to be either spring or summer once the leaves
have returned to the trees. On May thirteenth of nineteen
eighty five, we have another murder, fifty four year old
Jody Williams James on I forty five a quarter mile
north of Tees Road on Conroad, Texas. So there's a
lot of stuff that's going on around Conrod, Texas. Operating
(34:22):
a tractor trailer. He pulled over, so Jody is a
mail He pulled over on the shoulder to complete his repairs.
Witnesses driving by observed Jody on the ground next to
his truck, waving one arm. On May fourteenth, and nineteen
eighty five, Jody's wallet was found along Highway one oh
five West, just west of Luke three point thirty six
toward Montgomery. His credit cards, checks, and pictures were found
(34:45):
along the same roadway, but farther west. This is another
tactic that we have witnessed the Zodiac do is take
belongings and basically on his way away from the crime scene,
depositing them almost as if to send people off into
a t rail to look for him as a suspect
in the opposite direction of where she's really going.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Correct, Well, I'm seeing it a leaving a coded message. Yeah,
a good possibility that the trail is going to go
certain places to let's hypothetically say it's going to say
that the street is named Jack where the purse is found.
You know, it's it's just the weird world of how
(35:29):
they were doing.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
It's kind of like you're taking us back to Black
Dallion Lipstick killing. Black Black Dahlia is killed in Hollywood.
Dagnan's remains are found on Hollywood Boulevard and Black Dahlia's
remains are found near Dagnan Boulevard in.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
The Nixon's That was Nixon's congressman control too. What do
you mean this all goes back? Yeah, he was, No,
he was when he was in h in congress that
was oh yeah, so imagines for me, it leads back
to circle zodiac.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah, it's right.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
It Okay.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Now we just have a string and series of murders.
On May thirtieth of nineteen eighty five, so our last
one was May thirteenth. Then on May thirtieth of nineteen
eighty five, we've got twenty seven year old Vicki Gail
Purdy found in an embankment in Honolulu. Now, this is Hawaii,
and it may have absolutely nothing to do with Jack,
but it did make the presentation just as being an
(36:34):
unsolved murder. And she was raped and strangled with her
hands tied behind her back. And we know that there
has been cords and tying of people up involved in
some of these cases. But then we hop right back
into the Texas murders with June eighth of nineteen eighty five,
unidentified human skeletal remains in Simmerin County Subdivision in Magnolia, Texas.
(36:58):
It's a white male, twenty to forty years of age,
five three or four inches in height, but nothing else.
Doesn't describe how he was killed or where he went
missing from. I have very little information on him. August
date of nineteen eighty five, fifty two year old Helen
Patty Frankford, neighborhood of Philadelphia Railway Maintenance Yard, stabbed nineteen
(37:21):
times and sexually assaulted. She was nude from the waist
down and had her blouse pushed up to expose a
bare chest. September of nineteen eighty five, approximately twenty three
to twenty six years of age. Jane Doe number two
on the League City Killing Fields. We actually figured out
who Jane Doe two is and that she is in
(37:42):
fact part of the unsolved killing sprees that occurred in
the League City Killing Fields. It said white female with
red brown hair, gunshot winto the back. So I just
need to update this particular entry. But the points of
these entries here at this point is that they fit
within that time frame in which foliage would be on
the trees, when the LEAs would have already you know,
(38:02):
been fully bloomed and out there. So I've placed these
ones in here in order to include that the at
least there's a possibility to be looking at the Zodiac
killer for these and that we know Jack was in
Texas during this one of these timeframes, at least during
the time when the trees were in full blown. I
(38:23):
think this is going to be the last of several
of the couple's murders that occurred in Florence, Italy, and
that was on September eighth of nineteen eighty five. The
Lover's Lane murders, as they're dubbed, is a consistency with
the Zodiac Lover's Lane murders. It says the modus operandi
have the monster was always the same. His victims were
all couples who were alone, usually in a parked car
(38:45):
in an isolated country areas in the night. That's also
consistent with what was Burkowitz right.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
No, well, I hope you can hear me.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
But I looked at those cases and I was looking
for the common denominator of all their names, and those
two right there ran a store, I mean a shoe store,
and these are all something to do with expensive shoes
and deliveries.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
That's what I found, and that that was the common denominator.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
So the son of the son of the son of
Sam murders is Berkowitz. Mm hmmm, I'm I'm asking, I
get too many murders stuck up here in my brain.
But but again, isolated couples parked in cars, this is
pretty much the sun that it's it's almost identical to
(39:43):
the sun of Sam. And we just went through those,
so we're we're seeing this pop back and forth. So
it says the attacker would wait until the couple started
getting intimate. This way, their defenses would be down and
they would be less likely to notice what was going
on outside the car. The monster would then come out
of the dark and ambushed the man and woman, shooting
both with a gun and then finishing off his work
(40:04):
with the knife. The crime would end with the attacker
carrying out his ritual of disfiguring the female victim's body
with knife. The crimes took place on moonless nights and
on an evening when most people didn't have to work
the next day, either because it was a weekend or
a holiday. The attacker always switched area from one crime
to the next, ambushing couples in a completely different part
(40:26):
of the Florence suburbs. Now, if Jack's part of what
we think he's a part of, he has access to
hopping on a flight and going pretty much anywhere he
wants to go. The fact that this is happening on
weekends or holidays gives him ample opportunity since he is
currently working now at this point in time. But he
wouldn't be suspected as being off in another country doing
(40:48):
something as you know, nasty as this. If he's back
here purportedly working as a full time father and parents
and all of these other things that he makes it
appear as though he's doing so. Onmber seventh or eighth,
they said, I'm not sure why they had two dates.
It says on the ninth of seven or eight September
nineteen eighty five, Jean Mitchell Kravichevilli yep twenty five, a
(41:12):
musician of Georgian ancestry, and tradeswoman Nadine Moriot, both from Augencourt, France,
were shot and stabbed while sleeping in their small tent
in a woodland area near San Casiano. I can't I
cannot pronounce his name, so I'm just gonna leave that
one alone. Was killed a short difference. The male was
killed a short distance away from the tent while trying
(41:34):
to escape. Morio's body was mutilated. Because the killer had
murdered two foreigners, there was not yet a missing person's report.
The killer sent a taunting note, so this is where
that's interesting, along with a piece of Morio's breast. This
takes me back to Black Dahlia. I mean, I know
he sent in her person, her belongings, but he mutilated
(41:56):
her breast, and we are seeing that these mutilations are
happening to females in the Zodiac stuff.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
It actually goes back to eighteen eighty eight. Jack the
rippers stuff.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Too right to the state, Okay, So they sent in
a piece of Morio's breast to the state prosecutor, along
with a taunting note Sylvia della Monica, stating that a
murder had taken place and challenging the local authorities to
find the victims. A person picking mushrooms in the area
discovered the bodies a few hours before the letter arrived
(42:28):
on dela Monica's desk. So here we've got the taunting
that we see with the Zodiac cases. I mean, it
just keeps going on. Hard to separate these these out
and due to proximity and time, you know, one would
want to say, oh, this isn't possible because it's in
another country, or oh, this isn't possible because the timeframe
(42:49):
is so far apart from sixty nine or even forty
seven with Black Dahlia to eighty five in Florence, Italy.
That is one of the things that prevents law enforce
from making active identifications on a person who is moving
about and committing series of crimes because they want to
tend to believe that it's either too far or part
(43:11):
or too long of a distance between the last murders,
and it's simply not true. On October fifth of nineteen
eighty five, seventeen year old Michelle Doherty Thomas was last
seen leaving her Alta Loma home in Texas. That's all
the information I have on that one. So either the
body is still has not been found, and maybe they
need to be looking at unidentified remains here in California
(43:32):
or in other states to see if they can't put
those together, because again, proximity and distance is not a
prerequisite for not looking at other bodies or trying to
assolve or figure out who these remains belong to. November
twenty ninth to nineteen eighty five unidentified human skeleton remains
(43:52):
on Lake Conroe at Rush Creek bore writing, And I'm
thinking when they say bore writing, that must have been
on the body, which again, and that takes me back
to the black Dahlia era and the lipstick killings that
occurred in the LA area, not necessarily the lipstick killer
from Chicago, Illinois. I think that was a cross connection
in itself to the forty seven through forty nine lipstick
(44:14):
killings in LA. But it says boor writing which included
references to Japanese in World War Two. That one would
be I think an interesting one to research to see
if we couldn't come up with some information as to
what that writing was. But it says I'm I'm a
little confused with the unidentified skeletal remains and Lake Conro
(44:38):
at Rush Creek where the remains bore writing which included
references to Japanese in World War two? Or what is
it the clothing? I really would liked that because.
Speaker 4 (44:50):
It's I'm being written on the skull.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Well we've got the reference. Well, if it's on the
school then that indicates the individual or the suspect had
to come back a later date after the body had
degraded and written on it. So where these references were
is very interesting or intriguing to me, because we know
that Jack had a love in Japan, we know that
(45:14):
he was ripped away from her when the war ended,
We know that he was in World War Two. We
know that the Zodiac made reference to the Mikado, which
was a Japanese play. That there's just a whole lot
of things in this particular unidentified remains that make me
want to look deeper into this case. December twenty sixth
(45:34):
and nineteen eighty five. Jack may not have had anything
to do with this, but I can believe that people
in the underground perverted system that the Zodiac talks about
would have had some part in this. December twenty sixth
and nineteen eighty five, fifty three year old Diane Fosse
Volcanoes National Force in Rwanda. It says Carosok Research Centers
(45:55):
where she was working at. She's found dead in her
bed with a machete she confiscated from poach buried in
her head. She was responsible. Parties were theorized to be
illicit black market and the poaching of gorillas. And we
know that Jack is a fan of poaching as well,
so that was a very small connection. But the point
being is somebody wanted her to stop doing her work,
which was protecting these animals that they were getting big
(46:18):
dollars for.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
Well, can I say something real quick because you're talking
about Rwanda and all.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
This, and I just well, if you don't want to
get to the letter, then yes you can segue, but
I don't really have a lot of information or ability.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
It is covering the stuff that I'm covering from eighteen
eighty eight. Yeah, Da was part of the British Empire,
and all this stuff that we are covering has its
roots and all that that era. So that's what I
just wanted to add. That's the thing that you brought
that up. There is a link, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yeah, I mean again, the powers that rule the world
are all over the world. They're not just isolated here
to whatever agenda they have with media and sales. Honey.
January fourteenth, to nineteen eighty six, seventeen year old Regina
Sakamoto is killed in Honolulu, So we have another murder,
but it's almost a year apart in Honolulu, strangled and
(47:17):
raped with her hands tied behind her back. Once again,
she had missed her school bus and her body was
found the next day. Over the next three months, we
have Denise Hughes, Luis Maderos, and Linda Pesky that are killed,
and I'm not sure I'm gonna have to go back
to look up. I did not notate where these occurred.
I did notate that I needed to research them. It's
(47:38):
likely that they were probably killed in Honolulu as well,
since it's following the Regina Sakamoto murder. But further into
January of nineteen eighty six, we have sixty eight year
old Anna Carol Frankfurt neighborhood of Philadelphia, obviously Pennsylvania, stabbed
a death in her apartment. Like the first victim, nude
(47:59):
from the way down with their shirt pulled up to
exposure chest. So there must have been some type of
connection that I had there. But again I just don't
have enough information on these murders. Over the next four years,
the Frankfort slasher oh okay, I would claim seven more lives.
I had not heard of. The Frankfurt slasher had you.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
No, No, it's just something to look into some of
the slasher right, like Jack Rupert.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
Sorry, it says over the next Well, let's see. Some
of the victims were seen with the middle aged white
male before their deaths, so maybe that is why I
put it in here. Carol Dowd was a nineteen ninety
victim found behind a fish market in nineteen ninety, and
Leonard Christopher was convicted of her death. However, it is
believed that he is innocent since he was a blackmail
(48:51):
and did not match the description of the suspect in
other crimes, and another crime was committed while he was incarcerated,
instilling the notion that he was not the Frankfort slasher.
So here we have another person who's a patsy and
an innocent person in jail for something that they had
not committed. Oh boy, well, we just now made it
to the actual letters, and I don't believe we have
(49:12):
enough time. We've got about thirty seconds left here, Harriet
before we hit these. But when we're done with this segment,
please don't hop off. I'd like to discuss with Wan
a pre record or fourth of July, So stay on
with me. We'll make it. These communications will be the
first thing that everybody gets to see on fourth of July.
They're going to be very interesting ones with souls by
Harriet Soouche, which we love. I want to thank everybody
(49:35):
for being here. I have a wonderful weekend and a
great week and we will see you next Friday. Thank you, Harriet.
Speaker 5 (49:42):
We'll be here.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
He
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You should seek the services.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Good morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
I'm excited to be back actually into the presentation. We
have a year full of murders of Jack's whereabouts, what
he's doing with Hewlett Packard, and of course a new
communication that's just out of the blue. Actually there's about
(01:15):
three of them, two of which I'm not quite sure
their origination or what those letters said. They were found
in the FBI Foy files. But we're going to try
and get to the bottom of those, and of course
helping me with that today is Harriet Soouchet.
Speaker 3 (01:31):
Yes, good morning, good today.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Well, we're just climbing right back in at this point.
So if there is somebody in the murder scheme here
that you have either seen their name in any of
the communications, or have information in regards to them, then please,
you know, interject and climb in, because I'm really just
gonna run through these rather quickly. A lot of them
don't have a lot of information in regards to them
(02:01):
other than they where they died or maybe where they
were taken from, and of course the manner of death.
Other than that, there's just not a lot of information
out there on the internet since the murders are so old,
and they actually kind of pre date the time that
things were being loaded onto the internet, so we don't
see a lot of information on these unsolved murders. So basically,
(02:26):
we left off at the end of October nineteen eighty four,
so we're climbing right back into November nineteen eighty four,
and we have Robert William Hope, thirty two years of age.
It looks like he was on the eighteen hundred block
of North Park Kingwood, Texas at two pm. A constable
(02:46):
was attempting to serve Hope with civil papers at his
residence and found him lying face down in the kitchen
shop multiple times. Now, it doesn't indicate whether or not
they felt this was a robbery, which I usually do
see those you know, mentioned in some of the information.
So if there wasn't a robbery that occurred here, then
it sounds to me like somebody had a personal grudge.
(03:09):
Christmas of nineteen eighty four, we know that we are
seeing Christmas at the Kirby Street address via Nora's handwriting
on the back of the pictures. It does indicate in
Jack's paperwork his probation report that he is at this
same address, though I did not see any pictures of
him during this timeframe. And we know that previous to this,
(03:32):
Jack and Nora had gone through a divorce and Jack
had the assault with a deadly weapon charge that he
is on probation for, which is why we are seeing
these reports as described. And when I'm looking at these
Christmas pictures, I of course I was a kid during
these timeframes, and if you had you had parents that
(03:56):
were not working or in between work. As much as
we saw Jack during these years, we see what I
consider to be a huge amount of presents, you know,
I mean, for any typical household, they have approximately four
children at this point. We can see here is Charles
to the left and Dennis to the right. In this
(04:17):
Christmas picture here. We know that Dennis has two sisters,
so we're working with four children here that we have
to provide Christmas for. And at this point in time,
Jack is merely making about three hundred and twelve dollars
bi weekly, So breaking that down is basically one hundred
and fifty six dollars a week. So where is this
(04:37):
extra money coming for? Or from? Should I say? I mean,
we see pipes, we see all kinds of stuff that's
going on in here.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
He's working, but he's just not officially working.
Speaker 4 (04:51):
He's he's definitely working well.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
And I mean one hundred and fifty six dollars a week.
That sounds even awfully low for that time frame.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Maybe even to say that he's not even working full time.
I mean one hundred and fifty six dollars, what does that?
Oh God, if I wanted to break that down to
forty if he was actively doing forty hours for one
hundred and fifty six dollars a week, I mean you're
talking three dollars an hour.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
It's yeah, it would basically be I think close to
minimum wage of the time period.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Maybe that's something I should be Wow. Yeah, And a
security guard at that so you've got, you know, the
dangers of being a security guard because your job is
to protect, and of course that means that sometimes, as
we'll see in some of Jack's reports, you're coming up
against some violent offenders even though they're working at the
Hewlett Packard plant. All right, m hm switch. I did
(05:58):
find a new article in my research from the Lake
very Essa murders. So I thought this one was interesting
to read because again it takes us back to the hood,
which we've been talking about the way that media has
portrayed it. Oh my gosh. All right, hold up, let's
talk about media portrayal just for one second. I did
not really want to climb into anything on the nine
(06:21):
to eleven attacks, but I did watch a documentary on
it a few nights ago. Of course, they were still
hard hitting at Oh goodness, Ivans and hat film. Of
course half film. We know that they dove in deep
on him, stating he was the possible suspect, which then
(06:42):
hat Phil sued because he was not the suspect and
he won a ridiculous amount of money in the area
of millions, and so of course they had focused on
Ivans first, then they focused on Hatville and then they
went back and focused on Ivans again, and at the
end of the documentary, the media portrayed that the case
(07:03):
was closed on February nineteenth of twenty ten on Ivans,
and I about fell out of my chair when this happened.
Do you recall that period in our life when we
were dealing.
Speaker 3 (07:13):
With I believe they closed it. They just automatically said
he so homicided and.
Speaker 4 (07:21):
That was it.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Well when they Dennis and I were together at this
particular point in time, when we about lost our minds
when we saw the press release that the FBI stated
that they were closing the anthrax case on Ivans. Now
when we lost our crap, I of course called then
the FBI investigator and explained to him that we had
(07:45):
looked at the handwriting and they're closing it on the
wrong person. And we literally had to wait almost an
entire week to get anything back. But on February twenty
sixth of twenty ten, the Congress came back out with
the press release a follow up to the FBI and said,
you were not closing this case on Ivans. He doesn't
match them, His handwriting doesn't match. There is no way
(08:09):
you're going to close this on this man, you don't
have the evidence to do so. Now, the press release
for them closing the case went worldwide, like everybody, So
this same tangent that the media uses to go out
there and create mass confusion like the case having been closed,
(08:29):
was that they that went all over the world. But
then a week later, on February twenty six, when the
press release from Congress came out said no, you're not
closing the case on Ivans. That was at a bare minimum,
a complete, little, tiny, little press release that got almost
little to no attention, and I half believed that it
probably didn't even play across the world as it did
(08:51):
when they released the fact they were going to close
the case on Ivans. So they put out mass media
in regards to a closure, and very little words are
said about the act that Nope, nothing matches, guys, you
are not closing this case on Ivans. So imagine my
shock when I'm watching this particular documentary to see that
at the end of it. You know how they always
like give you a this person ended up doing six years,
(09:13):
or this person ended up putting out or this is
what happened. So at the very end, of this documentary.
Across the screen came the words the case has been
closed on Bruce Ivans on February nineteenth of twenty ten.
What a freaking joke that these documentaries can get away
with this, and where do they get their information if
they didn't actively investigate the fact that there was a
(09:34):
follow up from Congress saying you're not closing this case
on Ivans. He doesn't match.
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Mm hmmm.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
He wouldn't be the first person.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
I I was just going to say, I remember seeing
those letters on Boit's Zodiac dot com and he was saying,
it looks this handwriting match. He was saying it, this
handwriting matches the Zodiac.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
I guess he's alive. I remember that. I remember here Fials.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
I was like, I remember hearing I remember hearing the
same thing, just you know, the public muddling about after
the nine to eleven and the anthrax attacks making a
statement that the anthrax letters were mailed by the Zodiac,
and I thought these people were freaking nuts. I'm like
this guy, he was nothing but a serial killer for
(10:25):
a very short period of time back in the sixty
sixty eight sixty nine era. You guys are absolutely nuts.
Little did I know what I'd be climbing into and
what the zodiac was truly apart.
Speaker 4 (10:37):
Its right, it's Jack Finds one on one handwriting the stamps.
Everything I've done to all of those it's mind blowing yes,
And we will be making those connections later on. So
in this particular article here, this.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Is where I want to say that this was something
that was developed in something that came out shortly after
the murders, the murder at Lake Berry sn the attempted
murder of Brian Hart. Now, but the media literally controls
the narrative for what the public's going to believe. And
at some point in time when they decided, and I
don't know if it was Robert gray Smith that put
it out there in attempts to try and dispel the
(11:15):
truth about the hood itself, but they perpetrated this square
hood that supposedly like a paper sack on top upside
down on someone's head, when anybody who has ever dealt
with material knows that a material square shaped hood is
not going to sit upright in a square manner like that.
So I highly disbelieve the notion that gray Smith has
(11:38):
given us, or Voight has given us or any of
these other people in the med that this thing was
actually like a paper sack upside down versus what we're
going to read in this article. So it says nap
a slaying. Scores of tips are checked out. NAP and
Valao authorities investigated scores of tips on the suspected code
killer today, the day of the funeral of the latest victim,
(11:59):
Active blonde co ed Cecilia and Shepherd twenty two. The
leads resulted from the publication of composite sketches and a
description of the suspects seen at Lake Barriessa by the
three girls about three hours before the stabbing of miss
Shepherd and her boyfriend Brian Hart now twenty Now. The
interesting part is that they claim that the suspect that
(12:22):
they're looking for is something that is stalking these three
girls or standing around gawking at them. If you will,
you can go to just about any beach and be
gawkeed at. There's always some creeper in the corner that's
staring at all the females. Doesn't make them killers, but
it's interesting that they're now focusing on this particular suspect.
It says, however, neither sheriffs nor police officers reported locating
(12:44):
the likely slayer of four young persons since last December,
still serious. Meanwhile, Hartnell remained on the serious list and
under protective guard at Queen of the Valley Hospital. The
services for the University of California at Riverside Senior Music
major are scheduled at two pm today in the sanctuary
of Pacific Union College church. She attended that college before
(13:06):
transferring this year. Authorities awaited the results of fingerprint comparisons
by the computerized laboratories of the FBI in Washington, d C.
Prints were obtained from a payphone booth in Napa, from
which the killer apparently reported the crime to police. Now,
what I want to know is is that, for Heaven's sake,
you're talking about a public payphone. Do you know how
(13:26):
many people back in the day were actively using these things?
Everybody and their mother?
Speaker 4 (13:32):
Yeah, so, so many fingerprints are on.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
There my hands, and how do we determine which ones
are actively those of the Zodiac killer. Doesn't mean that
they made identification of all other finger prints on that phone,
on that phone booth except for one set, and that
they then attributed that to the Zodiac. I'm just I
really want to understand how they sorted this information outing.
Speaker 4 (13:57):
They were making sure and that's my opinion.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
I mean, it's it's inevitable that they get to the phone,
they know he's going.
Speaker 4 (14:07):
To use it.
Speaker 3 (14:08):
It's cleaned off, he rans it, it's all staged. And
this is this is a huge conspiracy to go after
who they believed has something to do with kill for
these two. It has something to do with who killed
Martin Luther King. That's the souls I got Christmas friends
(14:28):
of the Kennedys.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
So I feel like the Zodiac Killer making note in
one of his communications that he will cement airplane cement
on his fingertips. Do you prevent any source of fingerprints
being left behind? I feel like that was him calling
out the media because he automatically already knew that the
media was telling stories.
Speaker 4 (14:52):
Well, how about the poem prints on the phone, all
this stuff that could be the wood of some maybees.
Speaker 2 (14:58):
Well, why would you why would you do just your fingers?
If you wouldn't do your entire hand.
Speaker 4 (15:05):
You'll be like this and the old fashioned phone.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
No, no, I get how you'd hold it, but I mean,
obviously the Zodiac understands countermeasures to being caught, and how
to cover up the type of forensics that they would
use to make identifications. Why would you only apply it
to your fingertips and not to your entire hand. I
mean your hand, every your entire hand has a surface
of ridges that can be specifically identified creases. I mean,
(15:34):
there's a lot of identification that's found inside the palm,
not just on the fingerprints. Well, anyway, with.
Speaker 3 (15:40):
The mindset that it was pretty much a conspiracy to
do these things, and somebody who's following him and said, oh, yeah,
that's our guy. He's on the phone now, and you know,
verify that the prints are his, but they just disappear.
Speaker 5 (15:55):
You know, Well, I've.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
Seen the palm print. It's not clear enough for me
to make out the ridges on it, but it definitely
they definitely have one in the case file. But how
are again, how are we to know that those are
the zodiacs? Again, I'm just just bring that out.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
There's all these speculations I'm going with that they were
taking pictures from above.
Speaker 4 (16:20):
With the satellites.
Speaker 3 (16:21):
We were the only people that really had those satellite
kept capabilities to do.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
That at that time.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Yeah, that's where Robert Abel comes in and NASA and
all that you know, right there in Texas where Jack
was very familiar with. So the guys in the sky,
the Ice of Texas are upon you all the live
long day, the Ice of Texas.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
Huh okay that out of that, well, it goes on
to say they were. They also were tracing a light
blue Chevrolet driven by the suspect and other evidence left
at the knifeing scene, a remote Southwest Lake shore spot.
So again I still have not seen the words Chevy
and Paula from any of these individuals. And like I said,
(17:05):
we determined that the vehicle that Nora had that Jack
may have had access to, was a Chevy Biscayne, but
it was a two door light blue Chevy. And here
it says it just says light blue Chevrolet. So I
still haven't seen the words in any of the communicator
or i'm any of the articles or police reports or
(17:26):
otherwise that stayed specific the specific model a vehicle, just
a light blue Chevrolet. So it says. A psychiatrist suggested
today the slayer may be psychotic rather than psychopathic. This
is indicated he said, by his full blown delusions. Also,
he may be hopped up with narcotics or dangerous drugs
(17:46):
at the time of his murders, which may account for
the laughing frenzies he goes into during the crimes. So
let's talk about that for a minute. I mean, we
definitely see Jack in some psychotic pictures. I mean, he
looks absolutely insane after killing the next door neighbors animals. Yeah,
we know that he did meet them beta means, and
(18:08):
he made met them beta means. It's something that he
taught Dennis how to do, and Dennis picked up on
and continued with. And so this whole laughing frenzy and
the notion that he may be on drugs are all
still consistent. Jack cannot be excluded from that. And that's
another thing, you know, I almost want to discuss about
all of these other fake suspects. Nobody has any evidence
(18:28):
that these individuals were involved with drugs. But we're going
to talk about some of the things that the Zodiac
did say which are consistent with some of the things
that we're looking at.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Well, we know that he's constantly looking for that cure,
the peote stamp.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Thing, right, Well, but I think that's outside of and
that's a drug in itself.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
I mean honestly, I.
Speaker 3 (18:50):
Mean, I'm from the Nampa area.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
I knew older people who were doing that crazy stuff.
Let's go in everything.
Speaker 3 (18:58):
But anyway, so we know he's got some weird connection
to that, and he's trying.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
To rank and here's on the hood they said there.
There also was speculation that the squareish again squareish. I
love that they use the proper word to describe because
instead of being pointed, instead of being rounded, we had
a squarish hood. They did not say square like a
(19:24):
paper sack. They did not give any specific indications as
to what that top looked like. But again, we know
how material works, and that simpainly would not have stood
up the way they portrayed in their books. In the media,
the squarish black hood worn by the Killer at Lake
Berry Esa may be similar to those worn by some
motorcycle gangs, or the idea for it may have originated
in a comic strip which shows an executioner with a
(19:47):
squarish black hood and big islets plus a curly cue
symbol on his chest, or it may be a combination
of both. Did you find what comic strip they were
talking about that that was in?
Speaker 3 (20:01):
I think that would be something like way back there,
thirties forties, which when we know we're dealing with first
the big newspapers of the.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Time, comic strips. Yeah, I'm always using something, yeah, always
using something from the media. We do know that Jack
did ride motorcycle. He had a motorcycle that was purportedly
owned by Doris Reynolds, but he was in possession of it,
and when he had brought back Danny Reynolds to his
house in South Lake, Tahoe, he had to file a
(20:37):
police report against Danny Reynolds for attempting or having stolen
this motorcycle, even though it had been wrecked and probably
wasn't in a good running position. Jack reported it as
being stolen even though it was technically owned by Danny's mom.
Speaker 3 (20:54):
All right, I think it's the motorcycle that he was
allegedly driving the night that he busted up his shoulder
leaving Cooper time that Dennis said he remembered that.
Speaker 4 (21:07):
It's a little I mean emphatically, he remembered.
Speaker 2 (21:09):
It right well, And evidently it is true in formed,
because we are seeing that stuff in police reports, as
indicated earlier in the presentation. So now this brings me
back to Dennis Kaufman's book, in which case he has
a He's got a little bit to say here. It
says nineteen eighty five, Jack is still on probation for
pulling a gun on Mary and I, and he is
(21:31):
eventually released from probation six months early for good behavior.
Jack has been working for three years at this time.
This is the longest Jack ever worked since we met him.
I believe that he stopped killing after his arrest in
nineteen eighty three until years later when he would start
where he had left off. And that's why I say
we're going about to pick up pretty heavy. In nineteen
eighty five, it says from nineteen eighty five through nineteen
(21:54):
eighty eight, Jack was deeply into hypnosis. He said that
he could reprogram his subconscious mind by us self hypnosis.
I never thought about it, but I wonder what he
was trying to reprogram. Was it his desire to kill?
By nineteen eighty six, Jack appeared to everyone that he
was a changed man. It had been five years since
he quit drinking, and even apologized to me about how
(22:16):
he had treated me when I was growing up. Jack
worked and lived in the same place for nine years
until he retired at age sixty three in nineteen ninety one. Asterix.
I'm sure that Jack felt pretty comfortable wearing his security
uniform because he looked like a police officer and no
one would ever suspect him of anything. During his three
(22:37):
year involvement with self hypnosis, he would try and detach
himself from his body. He wanted to leave his body
and travel around in a formless state. In nineteen eighty eight,
Jack achieved this goal. He said that he had lifted
up out of his body and that it is all
he would say. He never talked about or practiced hypnosis. Again,
Jack had experienced something that scared the shit out of him.
(22:59):
How would he or he would never talk about what
he had experienced. So over here on the right hand corner,
we can see this self hypgnosis symbol that Dennis is
talking about that Jack would use. I believe he said
that he would use a penny on a string.
Speaker 4 (23:15):
Yeah, pendulum, pendulum.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
So basically, as you look around this, you see clockwise,
you see clockwise, you see I'm not sure what the
c W is. Clockwise clockwise, so that's all clockwise and
then counterclockwise. But he has a CWI, and I'm not
sure what that means. But the other thing.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
Is means counterclockwise.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
It's still well, but yeah, so CCW is counterclockwise. So
this one CCW going colounterclockwise, and then there's CW CWCW,
but then c W I on the bottom left quarter
of this particular circle. The part that really interests me
is that at the top it says, don't know, So
(24:01):
you just don't know the answer.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
Okay, venis I don't know. That's what it is.
Speaker 2 (24:07):
I don't want to know. Okay. He placed that eye
so close to the CW that it's part of the
actual statement. So at the top it indicates if the
pendulum swings in this area in a particular order, that
he doesn't know the answer to the question. And at
the bottom it says, I don't want to know.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
That's you know, it's I have a pendulum upstairs. If
I remember right, it was supposed to be on the string.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
I can tell you that when Dennis wrote this book
he did not know the things that I know, like
the association to the letters from Tom Voice to Tom
Voy from the Zodiac killer, also the experience that the
Zodiac described in this letter to Tom Voight is very similar,
and I'm going to read a bit of that to you,
(24:58):
even though we're not not into yet when these letters
are actually written to Tom Voit. But if we looked
where he said he wanted to be lifted up out
of his body, and that is all he would say
now in a letter direct to Tomvod from the Zodiac Killer,
it says, in those years, I was an LSD and
heroin addict with a taste for the bizarre, subcultural and
(25:20):
underground lifestyles. I would have brownouts of consciousness that could
literally last for days. In that state I experienced the
graphic deeds of the Zodiac Killer is if I was
an observer, not the perpetrator. So that's as if to
say he is up and out of his body.
Speaker 4 (25:43):
I mean he's under mk ultra.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I got myself all kinds of goosebumps right now.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Those two I'm getting, okay, ok.
Speaker 2 (25:57):
Those two statements, one from Dennis one from the Zodiac
are so closely related to each other in the sense
it's like hypnosis in itself is supposed to be lifting
you up out of your body. Basically, what did Jack recognize?
What came to mind? What hit Jack, and what scared
(26:17):
Jack now intrigues me just as much as it probably
did Dennis. Another series of murders that were going on
during this time was twelve homeless people in Bombay, India.
They called them the Stoneman murders, but obviously this gained
national intention and was all over the world that these
were taking place. May again been just for media sales
(26:42):
and again newspapers, who knows. I mean, honestly speaking, every
time I see one of these things pop up and
disappear as fast as they started, it always makes me
wonder what's really going on, because this just truly is
not how serial killers work. They take a break, sure,
but then they eventually come back around again. I mean,
it's not very often you see them go through killing
spreez to never ever do it again. I mean, how
(27:04):
do you get your kicks off of something like that
and then control it for the rest of your life
to never do it again. On March sixth of nineteen
eighty five, we have an Hewlett Packard report from Jack
that shows him still at Hewlett Packard. He is complimenting
an officer who seemingly has a problem with other female
employees and behaves in a manner less than acceptable, but
(27:26):
Jack is giving him a recommendation. It really kind of
speaks volumes to Jack's ability or willingness to allow women
to be degraded and then still promote that male in
the face of that type of degradation. So at sea
here this is what the report says. Officer Browning has
(27:47):
had several complaints registered against him by employees at Heleott Packard,
especially female employees, that his conversation with them has been
less than desirable and to the point of vulgar insinuations.
He has had one complaint from a female employee that
he touched her in such a way that was undesirable.
On several occasions, Officer Browning's off key jokes have been
(28:08):
told in such a loud voice that the HP employees
have found them to be undesirable and have commented about
his contact being very unbecoming of that of a security officer.
During his tour of duty at Hewlett Packard, Soo Browning
has proven his ability and knowledge of his job. He
has been a willing and reliable worker and cooperative fellow employee,
(28:29):
and it is felt that his talents could be used
to CPP's advantage at a different post. So I mean,
I get kind of sickened by this that he is promoting.
Is okay, he doesn't fit in an HP because of
his innuendos and his jokes and his flippant behavior towards females.
(28:52):
I mean, we clearly didn't have a zero tolerance policy
back in nineteen eighty five, because otherwise this guy wouldn't
be getting away with this stuff. It had been fired
on the spot.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Can I say something, because this is one of the
biggest reasons I ended up in the Zodiac cases. This
is I believe, almost ten years to the day, where
I witnessed some really strange activities of laundry like Zodiac
laid out a certain way at Sigmund Stern Grove and
(29:25):
my mind's I can still see it looks like it's
uniform material, like the uniforms they wore there. And it
was a woman and a man that had been found
in the in the pond or there, face down, and
I never got to find out what that was about,
but I remember those that clothing, and it's almost ten
(29:46):
years to the day. It was nineteen ninety five. It
scared my dog so much she never wanted to go
back to the park there. So this is another reason
why I got into the Zodiac cases. That was Zodiac
one on one to laundry everything.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
Well, I mean this letter speaks to me in a
couple different ways. One, there's a disregard for females, and
we can see that clearly. If he's going to promote
a person or state that a person should, you know,
go to another spot because he's offended too many females
here rather than having been fired, then there's a disregard
for females. Second off is that the I forty five
(30:24):
killings and the Texas murders. I have read on several
occasions that people had witnessed somebody who appeared to be
either in a police or a security uniform, that they
looked like a professional assisting someone on the side of
the road before that person either went missing or was
found dead. So we have that Jack again, is it? Yeah, Well,
(30:49):
he's in possession of it. I don't know that it
links him as much as you can't exclude him because
of it. You know, he's now fitting the description during
a timeframe that a rational murders or and they believe
that a possible suspect was wearing some type of a uniform,
and Jack is in possession of ones, and we see
him back and forth to Texas all the time. In fact,
(31:13):
here's one trip back to Texas. So we do know
that he completed this final report that we got the
information from. About who he's working from for Pinkerton, well
it's Hewlett Packard, but he's on contract from Pinkerton, and
of course he doesn't mail it until for one of
nineteen eighty five. I'm not sure who gets away with that,
because you obviously did not comply with your rules of
(31:35):
probation if you're not filling out your reports properly and
timely and getting them in when they should be when
they should be sent in. This report was written September
first of nineteen eighty four, but not mailed until April
of nineteen eighty five, which is where we're sitting now.
We see another report from Jack. It says on four
six eighty five, fifteen hundred, which is approximately three pm,
(31:58):
I received the telephone call and the caller stated that
referred to INCID that Annette Slagel was stealing computers from HP.
Referred to Incident of one hundred thousand dollars computers stolen
in January of eighty five. Caller said she was supporting
her cocaine habit real deep voice. I did not hear
any background noises. I tried to get I love that
(32:20):
he spelled. Tried with why to get the caller to
identify himself, no success, and he spelled that with one s.
So we see some of these habits that we seen
by the zodiac to not use the proper double letters
to misspell words. Jack's got it honest. April sixth and
nineteen eighty five. That HP report Okay, wait a minute,
(32:43):
describe deep voice, but no identity and again not sure
why he kept these reports. See these are reports that
I physically copied from his belongings all the way in
two thousand and nine and beyond. I mean, he dies
in two thousand and six, but he lugged this stuff
around and kept it for a particular reason for sure. Jack.
(33:04):
Then we see this here, Jack is in Texas again
in nineteen eighty five, and it says on the back
of this picture Granny d in Texas in front of
their house or trailer in nineteen eighty five. Now, if
I'm not wrong, I thought Dennis had said that Jack
bought that trailer for Flova.
Speaker 6 (33:25):
I believe so, yeah, I know that it Yeah, yeah, so,
And of course the only reason why I state that
Jack is in fact there is that we see his
VW behind them, So this is actively Jack's VW.
Speaker 2 (33:40):
We've seen it in other pictures already on other trips
that he'd made it back to Texas. So we definitely,
we definitely know Jack's here during that time. And what
timeframe that is, we could only kind of try to
guesstimate based on the foliage on the trees, possibly indicating
that it's definitely not winter or after fall, so it's
(34:01):
going to be either spring or summer once the leaves
have returned to the trees. On May thirteenth of nineteen
eighty five, we have another murder, fifty four year old
Jody Williams James on I forty five a quarter mile
north of Tees Road on Conroad, Texas. So there's a
lot of stuff that's going on around Conrod, Texas. Operating
(34:22):
a tractor trailer. He pulled over, so Jody is a
mail He pulled over on the shoulder to complete his repairs.
Witnesses driving by observed Jody on the ground next to
his truck, waving one arm. On May fourteenth, and nineteen
eighty five, Jody's wallet was found along Highway one oh
five West, just west of Luke three point thirty six
toward Montgomery. His credit cards, checks, and pictures were found
(34:45):
along the same roadway, but farther west. This is another
tactic that we have witnessed the Zodiac do is take
belongings and basically on his way away from the crime scene,
depositing them almost as if to send people off into
a t rail to look for him as a suspect
in the opposite direction of where she's really going.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Correct, Well, I'm seeing it a leaving a coded message. Yeah,
a good possibility that the trail is going to go
certain places to let's hypothetically say it's going to say
that the street is named Jack where the purse is found.
You know, it's it's just the weird world of how
(35:29):
they were doing.
Speaker 2 (35:30):
It's kind of like you're taking us back to Black
Dallion Lipstick killing. Black Black Dahlia is killed in Hollywood.
Dagnan's remains are found on Hollywood Boulevard and Black Dahlia's
remains are found near Dagnan Boulevard in.
Speaker 3 (35:47):
The Nixon's That was Nixon's congressman control too. What do
you mean this all goes back? Yeah, he was, No,
he was when he was in h in congress that
was oh yeah, so imagines for me, it leads back
to circle zodiac.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah, it's right.
Speaker 4 (36:12):
It Okay.
Speaker 2 (36:13):
Now we just have a string and series of murders.
On May thirtieth of nineteen eighty five, so our last
one was May thirteenth. Then on May thirtieth of nineteen
eighty five, we've got twenty seven year old Vicki Gail
Purdy found in an embankment in Honolulu. Now, this is Hawaii,
and it may have absolutely nothing to do with Jack,
but it did make the presentation just as being an
(36:34):
unsolved murder. And she was raped and strangled with her
hands tied behind her back. And we know that there
has been cords and tying of people up involved in
some of these cases. But then we hop right back
into the Texas murders with June eighth of nineteen eighty five,
unidentified human skeletal remains in Simmerin County Subdivision in Magnolia, Texas.
(36:58):
It's a white male, twenty to forty years of age,
five three or four inches in height, but nothing else.
Doesn't describe how he was killed or where he went
missing from. I have very little information on him. August
date of nineteen eighty five, fifty two year old Helen
Patty Frankford, neighborhood of Philadelphia Railway Maintenance Yard, stabbed nineteen
(37:21):
times and sexually assaulted. She was nude from the waist
down and had her blouse pushed up to expose a
bare chest. September of nineteen eighty five, approximately twenty three
to twenty six years of age. Jane Doe number two
on the League City Killing Fields. We actually figured out
who Jane Doe two is and that she is in
(37:42):
fact part of the unsolved killing sprees that occurred in
the League City Killing Fields. It said white female with
red brown hair, gunshot winto the back. So I just
need to update this particular entry. But the points of
these entries here at this point is that they fit
within that time frame in which foliage would be on
the trees, when the LEAs would have already you know,
(38:02):
been fully bloomed and out there. So I've placed these
ones in here in order to include that the at
least there's a possibility to be looking at the Zodiac
killer for these and that we know Jack was in
Texas during this one of these timeframes, at least during
the time when the trees were in full blown. I
(38:23):
think this is going to be the last of several
of the couple's murders that occurred in Florence, Italy, and
that was on September eighth of nineteen eighty five. The
Lover's Lane murders, as they're dubbed, is a consistency with
the Zodiac Lover's Lane murders. It says the modus operandi
have the monster was always the same. His victims were
all couples who were alone, usually in a parked car
(38:45):
in an isolated country areas in the night. That's also
consistent with what was Burkowitz right.
Speaker 4 (38:54):
No, well, I hope you can hear me.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
But I looked at those cases and I was looking
for the common denominator of all their names, and those
two right there ran a store, I mean a shoe store,
and these are all something to do with expensive shoes
and deliveries.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
Huh.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
That's what I found, and that that was the common denominator.
Speaker 2 (39:22):
So the son of the son of the son of
Sam murders is Berkowitz. Mm hmmm, I'm I'm asking, I
get too many murders stuck up here in my brain.
But but again, isolated couples parked in cars, this is
pretty much the sun that it's it's almost identical to
(39:43):
the sun of Sam. And we just went through those,
so we're we're seeing this pop back and forth. So
it says the attacker would wait until the couple started
getting intimate. This way, their defenses would be down and
they would be less likely to notice what was going
on outside the car. The monster would then come out
of the dark and ambushed the man and woman, shooting
both with a gun and then finishing off his work
(40:04):
with the knife. The crime would end with the attacker
carrying out his ritual of disfiguring the female victim's body
with knife. The crimes took place on moonless nights and
on an evening when most people didn't have to work
the next day, either because it was a weekend or
a holiday. The attacker always switched area from one crime
to the next, ambushing couples in a completely different part
(40:26):
of the Florence suburbs. Now, if Jack's part of what
we think he's a part of, he has access to
hopping on a flight and going pretty much anywhere he
wants to go. The fact that this is happening on
weekends or holidays gives him ample opportunity since he is
currently working now at this point in time. But he
wouldn't be suspected as being off in another country doing
(40:48):
something as you know, nasty as this. If he's back
here purportedly working as a full time father and parents
and all of these other things that he makes it
appear as though he's doing so. Onmber seventh or eighth,
they said, I'm not sure why they had two dates.
It says on the ninth of seven or eight September
nineteen eighty five, Jean Mitchell Kravichevilli yep twenty five, a
(41:12):
musician of Georgian ancestry, and tradeswoman Nadine Moriot, both from Augencourt, France,
were shot and stabbed while sleeping in their small tent
in a woodland area near San Casiano. I can't I
cannot pronounce his name, so I'm just gonna leave that
one alone. Was killed a short difference. The male was
killed a short distance away from the tent while trying
(41:34):
to escape. Morio's body was mutilated. Because the killer had
murdered two foreigners, there was not yet a missing person's report.
The killer sent a taunting note, so this is where
that's interesting, along with a piece of Morio's breast. This
takes me back to Black Dahlia. I mean, I know
he sent in her person, her belongings, but he mutilated
(41:56):
her breast, and we are seeing that these mutilations are
happening to females in the Zodiac stuff.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
It actually goes back to eighteen eighty eight. Jack the
rippers stuff.
Speaker 2 (42:08):
Too right to the state, Okay, So they sent in
a piece of Morio's breast to the state prosecutor, along
with a taunting note Sylvia della Monica, stating that a
murder had taken place and challenging the local authorities to
find the victims. A person picking mushrooms in the area
discovered the bodies a few hours before the letter arrived
(42:28):
on dela Monica's desk. So here we've got the taunting
that we see with the Zodiac cases. I mean, it
just keeps going on. Hard to separate these these out
and due to proximity and time, you know, one would
want to say, oh, this isn't possible because it's in
another country, or oh, this isn't possible because the timeframe
(42:49):
is so far apart from sixty nine or even forty
seven with Black Dahlia to eighty five in Florence, Italy.
That is one of the things that prevents law enforce
from making active identifications on a person who is moving
about and committing series of crimes because they want to
tend to believe that it's either too far or part
(43:11):
or too long of a distance between the last murders,
and it's simply not true. On October fifth of nineteen
eighty five, seventeen year old Michelle Doherty Thomas was last
seen leaving her Alta Loma home in Texas. That's all
the information I have on that one. So either the
body is still has not been found, and maybe they
need to be looking at unidentified remains here in California
(43:32):
or in other states to see if they can't put
those together, because again, proximity and distance is not a
prerequisite for not looking at other bodies or trying to
assolve or figure out who these remains belong to. November
twenty ninth to nineteen eighty five unidentified human skeleton remains
(43:52):
on Lake Conroe at Rush Creek bore writing, And I'm
thinking when they say bore writing, that must have been
on the body, which again, and that takes me back
to the black Dahlia era and the lipstick killings that
occurred in the LA area, not necessarily the lipstick killer
from Chicago, Illinois. I think that was a cross connection
in itself to the forty seven through forty nine lipstick
(44:14):
killings in LA. But it says boor writing which included
references to Japanese in World War Two. That one would
be I think an interesting one to research to see
if we couldn't come up with some information as to
what that writing was. But it says I'm I'm a
little confused with the unidentified skeletal remains and Lake Conro
(44:38):
at Rush Creek where the remains bore writing which included
references to Japanese in World War two? Or what is
it the clothing? I really would liked that because.
Speaker 4 (44:50):
It's I'm being written on the skull.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Well we've got the reference. Well, if it's on the
school then that indicates the individual or the suspect had
to come back a later date after the body had
degraded and written on it. So where these references were
is very interesting or intriguing to me, because we know
that Jack had a love in Japan, we know that
(45:14):
he was ripped away from her when the war ended,
We know that he was in World War Two. We
know that the Zodiac made reference to the Mikado, which
was a Japanese play. That there's just a whole lot
of things in this particular unidentified remains that make me
want to look deeper into this case. December twenty sixth
(45:34):
and nineteen eighty five. Jack may not have had anything
to do with this, but I can believe that people
in the underground perverted system that the Zodiac talks about
would have had some part in this. December twenty sixth
and nineteen eighty five, fifty three year old Diane Fosse
Volcanoes National Force in Rwanda. It says Carosok Research Centers
(45:55):
where she was working at. She's found dead in her
bed with a machete she confiscated from poach buried in
her head. She was responsible. Parties were theorized to be
illicit black market and the poaching of gorillas. And we
know that Jack is a fan of poaching as well,
so that was a very small connection. But the point
being is somebody wanted her to stop doing her work,
which was protecting these animals that they were getting big
(46:18):
dollars for.
Speaker 3 (46:19):
Well, can I say something real quick because you're talking
about Rwanda and all.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
This, and I just well, if you don't want to
get to the letter, then yes you can segue, but
I don't really have a lot of information or ability.
Speaker 3 (46:32):
It is covering the stuff that I'm covering from eighteen
eighty eight. Yeah, Da was part of the British Empire,
and all this stuff that we are covering has its
roots and all that that era. So that's what I
just wanted to add. That's the thing that you brought
that up. There is a link, That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 2 (46:53):
Yeah, I mean again, the powers that rule the world
are all over the world. They're not just isolated here
to whatever agenda they have with media and sales. Honey.
January fourteenth, to nineteen eighty six, seventeen year old Regina
Sakamoto is killed in Honolulu, So we have another murder,
but it's almost a year apart in Honolulu, strangled and
(47:17):
raped with her hands tied behind her back. Once again,
she had missed her school bus and her body was
found the next day. Over the next three months, we
have Denise Hughes, Luis Maderos, and Linda Pesky that are killed,
and I'm not sure I'm gonna have to go back
to look up. I did not notate where these occurred.
I did notate that I needed to research them. It's
(47:38):
likely that they were probably killed in Honolulu as well,
since it's following the Regina Sakamoto murder. But further into
January of nineteen eighty six, we have sixty eight year
old Anna Carol Frankfurt neighborhood of Philadelphia, obviously Pennsylvania, stabbed
a death in her apartment. Like the first victim, nude
(47:59):
from the way down with their shirt pulled up to
exposure chest. So there must have been some type of
connection that I had there. But again I just don't
have enough information on these murders. Over the next four years,
the Frankfort slasher oh okay, I would claim seven more lives.
I had not heard of. The Frankfurt slasher had you.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
No, No, it's just something to look into some of
the slasher right, like Jack Rupert.
Speaker 2 (48:30):
Sorry, it says over the next Well, let's see. Some
of the victims were seen with the middle aged white
male before their deaths, so maybe that is why I
put it in here. Carol Dowd was a nineteen ninety
victim found behind a fish market in nineteen ninety, and
Leonard Christopher was convicted of her death. However, it is
believed that he is innocent since he was a blackmail
(48:51):
and did not match the description of the suspect in
other crimes, and another crime was committed while he was incarcerated,
instilling the notion that he was not the Frankfort slasher.
So here we have another person who's a patsy and
an innocent person in jail for something that they had
not committed. Oh boy, well, we just now made it
to the actual letters, and I don't believe we have
(49:12):
enough time. We've got about thirty seconds left here, Harriet
before we hit these. But when we're done with this segment,
please don't hop off. I'd like to discuss with Wan
a pre record or fourth of July, So stay on
with me. We'll make it. These communications will be the
first thing that everybody gets to see on fourth of July.
They're going to be very interesting ones with souls by
Harriet Soouche, which we love. I want to thank everybody
(49:35):
for being here. I have a wonderful weekend and a
great week and we will see you next Friday. Thank you, Harriet.
Speaker 5 (49:42):
We'll be here.
Speaker 2 (50:00):
He
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