August 8, 2025 • 51 mins
The FBI and John Walsh withhold these Scorpion letters for 15 years. Jack retires in 1991 and goes back to Texas. Interesting things begin taking place like the letters to John Walsh from Scorpion. Narrative of the Zodiac Killer has changed from who will play me in a movie, to let me help you get it right, and I can beat all counter-measures of the CIA and FBI. Zodiac Killer claimed smarter than the cops and FBI. Unsolved cryptographs, simple ciphers, and solves on the letters from Harriette.
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Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/hit-the-road-jack-finding-the-zodiac--5297837/support.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You should seek the services.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Good Morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
We are going to pick up where we left off
on the Metro City trip with Jack and Nora in
nineteen ninety. But first I'd like to bring onto the
show Nolan del Campo.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
After everybody, good morning, welcome back. I know we'll confuse ourselves,
and then Lindsay mcgrair, Yeah, are you with us?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Hey?
Speaker 4 (01:23):
How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Nicety?
Speaker 4 (01:28):
All right?
Speaker 3 (01:29):
So I was just a little short on the last
episode where I missed the celebrity cipher, So we're going
to actually be catching up with that one here in
this particular show, which will be one of the communications
that are sent in nineteen ninety. Before I climb back
onto that, I just I had one more question. I
think of Nolan when I was discussing the Jeffrey Epstein stuff.
(01:52):
In regards to the plea deal, I guess if you will,
that he signed for eighteen months with the U S
District Attorney. They indicated that his name was Alan Alexander Acosta, right,
I don't know that. Okay, Alexander Acossa then became part
(02:13):
of Trump's administration.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
And then had to resign once the.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
News broke that he gave this sweet plea deal to
Epstein without the victim's knowledge.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Okay, I just.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Wanted to make it, yes, yes, yeah, So it just
dawned on me afterwards when I said US District Attorney
that I didn't actively put all the puzzle pieces together
for everybody so they could see when I say they
can make or break your career. I wouldn't doubt it
at all if Acosta didn't make Trump's administration because he
(02:52):
did what he did for Epstein. I mean, it's like
a classic Blacklist episode. You do dirty for us, and
we'll give you a promotion.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
Well, how about this. I have something even crazier than
that on Epstein that I researched recently and found out.
So I don't know if you guys remember the US
Attorney Bill Barr.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
No, what where is he? The US attorney for.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
Of the United States?
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Okay, well, I.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Think the US Attorney Center Costa wasn't for the United
States as much as I think he was in Florida
the district attorney.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
And I'm not sure.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Yeah, he was the one in Florida. But what I'm
saying is in Trump's first administration it was Bill Barr
of the United States District Attorney. And so Bill Barr
is the son of I can't remember his father's name,
but it's another bar who was the one who actually
(03:57):
hired Jeffrey Epstein for that teacher job at that prestige private.
Speaker 6 (04:04):
School and shut off in the seventies.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
I swear to God.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yep, the one he lied to get into. So somebody
had to give him a referral. Well, I guess no,
because when they did call on it and found out
that he hadn't gone to any of the schools, somebody
told the truth on that end. So yeah, he's pumped.
He's pumped by big names. Then that's how.
Speaker 5 (04:27):
He started with Bill Barr's father.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Wow, Okay, yep.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
His sentence was only eighteen months.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
And he only served twelve and twelve hours out of
the day. He was on work release, so he left
in the morning and came back at night to serve
his twelve month sentence.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
He heard that he had.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Does not make sense.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
That well, that was a separate indictment and conviction. That's
when New York FBI got involved and they took over
the case, and they prosecuted based on all the actual victims.
So the pros for Florida only focused in on some
type of a prostitution charge. Nothing about children, nothing about
human trafficking, nothing that that the complaints were showing from
(05:16):
all of the people's testimony. And he literally said out
loud on a press release, we just don't have enough
information or evidence to convict him. The hell you say
you have more than forty victims. Also, they're just room
his massage parlor. The size of his penis.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Come on, how do you know not hav enough?
Speaker 5 (05:36):
Well, Nolan, Nolan, the first time he was in there
for like she just said, and he was able to
come and go through work release for those eighteen months.
That was the first time in seven whenever he got
in trouble the first time and then the second time,
Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Yeah, it was cover on nineteen.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
It was a cover in nineteen he was in the
Raildale He was in the Rialdale Praiser.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, that's why. Okay, so it was a way different confinement.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Oh yeah, yes, yes, And they were complaining that the
help or the employees of this particular jail were either sleeping,
not doing their jobs, not manning the people that are
incarcerated there, which gave him the opportunity to kill himself,
when really it sounds to me like they all ski daddled,
(06:29):
So whatever was going to happen to Epstein could happen
freely without any interference by anybody.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
The whole thing just sounds rigged.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
And like I said, the independent corner, who did I guess?
Epstein's brother asked an independent corner to look at the
body and do an autopsy. Found that the hyoid bone
was broken in three places, and he did not feel
like from the position he was hung off of his bed,
hung that he would have caused that type of an
(06:58):
impact that would been strong enough to break those bones.
So that leads to the theory that he was killed
once he was incarcerated.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
So basically, they made him.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
And this is where I'm saying to you guys, they
made him and then they broke him literally exactly well.
Speaker 5 (07:15):
And also that indication of the high piled bone, I
cannot say that word hid bone is an indicator of strangulation.
And it's almost nine times out of ten that when
that bone is broken that that is a prime indicator
in a lot of different cases that I've researched, a
prime indication of strangulation.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Right, well, but not hanging.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Hanging holds it a different Yeah, it holds basically when
you hang yourself, not the same.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Yeah, it's not the same.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Pressure in the location it needs to be to be
able to break it. And since he couldn't get up
high enough to say, jump off something to cause a break,
or the impact of something that could cause that break,
it is suspect that he was killed so well.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
And I also literally when I heard that those results
of that autopsy, it really brought me back to John Beney.
And that's literally the same bone in her neck that
was broken because of the strangulation.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
So right, and in that case, they were strangling her
and we know that they used a garat to do it,
and that caused probably ample amount of pressure from an
adult to cause that breakage.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
All right, yeah, off.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Myself, yes, because the FBI in New York took over.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
He also had a house in New York.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
So he had committed this, these crimes all over the
United States and then off on that island as well.
So he's crossed international barriers with human trafficking.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Child abuse.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
I mean, you just name it. It was everything that's
right up the FBI's alley. This should have been turned
over to the FBI upon when Acosta got the deal
to convict him, So he went behind the vision. Yes,
Alexander Acosta was the district attorney who gave him the
plea deal. And of the eighteen months they gave him,
(09:08):
he only spent twelve, so he didn't even do the
full eighteen months, and he had I think by the
time they were done, it sounded to me like they
had over one hundred victims on one investigation in Florida
surmounted to over forty, and then New York surmounted to
another sixty. It was a ridiculous amount. And not only
was he having sex with these girls, but he was
then farming them out to all of his rich friends.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
And powerful friends that made him so this.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
And then he would also pay the girls to go
out and find other girls like to go back and
talk to their friends about it.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Correct, he was grooming them to yes, make a supply,
all right. It is a huge network. Well, and that's
why I say, I wonder if he took over Heidi
Fleiss's list.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
She Happened documentary primary focuses on the stuff that happened
in Florida, mentioned the island, but it doesn't mention much
stuff in New York.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
No, it doesn't really mention a lot of a lot
of the things that it should be mentioning. It's really
trying to isolate him as the monster and really kind
of shed doubt in people's minds as to whether or
not these politicians and these rich people are involved. But
like I said, he's his only client. And this came
from Lindsay was Adman Koshoge who was in human trafficking
(10:31):
with Baby Ribosa Roboso in the FBI files on Baby Riboso.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
So I mean it's all.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
That when when she says only client is she means
that means his He had his own side business too,
and but then would be working for all these other
people money laundering and things like that and everything else
under the bus and then but that, but personally under
his business name, that was his only client. So that's
(11:01):
fine when I think you brought it up the last
show when you said when no one said, well he
had so and so that's where he had those of
the other the other clients weren't his personal clients. They
were clients of him that used him for these purposes
of the whatever they're doing.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
And that's how he became so rich. I mean, honestly speaking,
that's where the money's coming from, is all these illegal dealings.
Speaker 6 (11:28):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
All right, So back to this year presentation, we see
that Nora is in front of a cream colored van.
At one point in time, I did find a crime
spree that indicated witnesses seeing a cream colored van. I
want to say that I feel like it was something
that was in the Sun of Sam murders. But I
don't know when they got this van or how long
they've had it. And Son of Sam was what eighty four?
Speaker 6 (11:54):
Uh, yeah, I thought it was a lot earlier than now.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
It was.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
It was a couple of years, I think, Yeah, it
was a seventy.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Nine eighty.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
And probably probably much older than this van. I don't
know when they received this van, but we can clearly
see them going on vacation in it.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
And I color it's a cream colored van.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
It says is mentioned as a suspect vehicle and crimes
related oh to the I forty five killer. So now
when I'm saying that he's back and forth to Texas
and a cream colored van and a security officer coplike
uniform is some of the eyewitnesses statements. We've got the
cream colored van and we've got the security guard outfit
that makes him look like a cop. I'm saying, like
(12:47):
he really needs to be looked at for these I
forty five killings. And possibly it said Anthony Allen Shore.
I think I needed to research that. I'm not I
want to say Anthony Allen Shore was also part of
or in a cream color vand which is probably why
I put that there.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Either way, Hey, yo, work it well like they like
well and they love to use vans. Oh always, Well,
this one has too many windows to be a pedo van.
They're not blacked out. Yeah you found your buck, Nolan.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, I think I think it was mid seventies it's
my recollection.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I feel like it was eighties, late seventies, late seventies. Yeah,
too many slides for me to go back to figure
it out. At this point, I do see it coming
across nat yes, but clearly. All right, so I'll just
get back at this presentation while you're looking.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
So next week, Oh, what'd you find?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Seventy seven?
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, so seventies.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Okay, and he probably did not at this time. I
think he still had the blue Dodge because seventy seven
was him coming back from Minnesota area and moving back
to Texas, and he still had the blue Dodge.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
So yep. No, the cream color van came in, was
that a blue dogvan? No, it was a.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Truck with a white camper which is another witness sighting
of some of these killing sprees is the blue truck
with a white camper shell. And Jack had that, so.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
He was highly conspicuous. Sam murders too, and.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Jack did have in the seventies a yellow Volkswagen as well,
So there's a there's a lot of coincidences with Jack's vehicles,
Nora's vehicles, and these crimes. So yeah, all right, so
I put up here. I need to research the source.
There is a celebrity cipher that came out on a postcard,
(15:07):
says notes say, two weeks later, couple found dead in
San Francisco. I needed to do a handwriting examination on this,
but it looks to me like some of this stuff
is very consistent with what we have been looking at.
I will have to break that part at a different time.
This is mailed on September twenty fifth, nineteen ninety. It
is labeled the Celebrity Cipher. Cipher is spelled with a
y instead of an eye, and it is a German
(15:31):
spelling of the word cipher, so it says, well, it's
mostly a cipher and then it just says celebrity cipher.
Valeo Times Herald, Valleo, California. So here, following up on
the last nineteen eighty seven letter that we did see
the solve for being mailed to the BALAOPD, we have
another letter. So it's like, right now, Jack's getting ready
(15:55):
to leave you guys. I mean he's separating from Nora
even and he's going to move to Texas for about
a year year and a half. I think that they're
separated and don't get back together until ninety two, and
we're seeing the onset of all of these messages that
are being blasted to the VALLEOPD. What else did we Well,
we saw a couple of them, oh, the nineteen eighty
(16:16):
six letter that went to the Sacramento b So we're
seeing this ramp up of communications like don't forget me,
I'm still out here. And of course Herrett would probably
tell you that he's trying to reach out and convey
a message to somebody higher up. So I did receive
this particular version from Sandy Betts. She had attended a
seminar in which I believe the gentleman that ran it
(16:37):
was either former FBI or something to that effect, and
he was investigating this particular letter. I always get interested
in these former FBI agents that all of a sudden
want to play armchair detective after they're die.
Speaker 5 (16:51):
Yes, I can't stand it.
Speaker 6 (16:53):
It's just so un makes makes me feel uneasy.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Right right, what are you doing? What are you giving
us disinformation? Why are you here? Why do you have.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Access to things that shouldn't be outside of the agency
If it's still an unsolved crime, that's what we would
be told, is the public. So how is it that
you have access to this stuff. So basically, I'm going
to read to you the cliff notes that this man
spoke on in regards to this, it says, the Celebrity
Cipher of nine twenty five ninety was never made public
(17:25):
by the Times Herald or the Valeo Police Department. Now
doesn't that sound familiar? The nineteen eighty six letter was
not made public either. I had to find out from
Terence Pascal, the former document examiner on the Zodiac case,
that it was believed to be a Zodiac communication, but
it was never released to the public. So now I've
got first yan information from somebody who used to work
the case, and we're seeing this from an FBI agent
(17:47):
saying this has never been seen before. So again I ask,
how do you have it? Why are you showing it
to us? And perhaps it was mailed during a period
of time when Arthur Lee Allen was in jail, and
that's why he suspects that it was withheld a conflict
of their preconceived opinions. However, it is my guess the
police just wanted to keep it quiet, or they thought
(18:09):
the card was simply a crank, a hoax, etc. It
seems as though they should have made it public. The
detective who gave us a copy seemed to imply they
thought it was a hoax. It is my opinion that
this is not a hoax, that this is truly from
the Zodiac. This is an important clue because it tells
us that Zodiac is still around and still very close
(18:30):
in fact, as this was mailed to the Valeo Times
Herald and not the San Francisco Chronicle. To the best
of our knowledge, VPD has the original tells us he
is closer to Valeo residents wise and more ties murder wise.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
So to speak.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yet it is only the Valeo Times Herald which prints
the Celebrity Cipher code game. So now we know why
it's labeled the Celebrity Cipher, because that's something that the
Valeo Times Herald is actually putting in their newspaper. But
what is so curious about this postcard is the wording
that the actual text of it. And I'm going to
climb into that in a second. But I don't know
(19:05):
if any of you guys caught that this letter was
mailed at a time that Arthur Lee Allen was incarcerated,
probably for abusing a child. I think that's what he
went to jail for, and that would not fit their
their groove. Robert gray Smith, who's being promoted by the
media and mass newspapers on his book of the Zodiac,
(19:25):
his take on Arthur Lee Allen being the actual suspect
when we know he's not tom boit's you know, act
and blaming Arthur Lee Allen for all that time. That
would have stripped them of their narrative. If if this
was put out to the public and it was known
that the Zodiac is still out there writing letters and
you guys have the wrong man for yourself.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
Well I figured it out.
Speaker 6 (19:46):
I figured it out.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Hold On Nolan Nolan Nolan, hold On Lindsey was speaking,
I'll come right back to you.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Go ahead.
Speaker 5 (19:53):
Well he took well, he I guess we were on
the same thought. That's what I was gonna say. What
how I ruled out author Lee Allen was after I
watched the Netflix documentary and then I did some digging
along with that, and immediately, almost immediately while watching the documentary,
ruled him out immediately because they were like, you just
(20:14):
said he wasn't even on their radar. Then they can
say he was, but he was not on their radar
at all whatsoever in any regard to the zodiac. And
so I mean, and that's how I figured out that
he was in jail during the during certain letters.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Right, And they don't want.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
To does not mention that because it undercuts their theory
as well.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Exactly, Yep, it's all just a stirless pot. It's all
for disinformation purposes. It's no different for the narrative that
they're using in the Epstein cases, training to make it
look like Epstein was the only monster. So we all
forget about these high political figures that are actually banging children.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
I mean, come on, you guys.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Now, this is the middle portion of this particular profile.
It says, if somebody was in fact playing a joke,
why would they duplicate two lines? Please note the top
two lines on the left side of the card, with
the bottom two lines on the right side of the card.
So let's look at that. So basically, these top two
in this left hand corner up here starts with a
(21:19):
zodiac symbol and an R A circle, a half shaded square,
and a plus sign is repeated at the bottom of
the right hand side, and so is that second line.
So his take on this is why would they duplicate
two lines? Please note the top two lines on the
(21:39):
left side of the card with the bottom two lines
on the right side of the card.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
They are the same.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Why a prankster would not make such a simple mistake. Therefore,
I conclude it is not a mistake. A prankster, by
utilizing the same symbols as in the first three part
cipher code, could have invented or created a much spookier
or a more nasty message.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Such a message might.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Read I will keep on killing, or you will never
catch me, or my slaves need more friends, or whatever,
anything something more chilling. But the deciphered symbols give us
a strange and almost incomprehensible array of jumbled words and
vague messages. And this is what it basically ciphered out
to longed hunt, Late sleuth, invite you to a slut
(22:24):
youth hotel.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Hide.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
That's not so crazy when we're talking about what's going
on with Epstein. A youth hotel, A slut youth hotel
that sounds to me like human trafficking. I'm blown away,
and this is coming at this time in nineteen ninety.
Please note that all symbols are used except to the
(22:49):
I and the queue. Perhaps he is asking, what is
your IQ question mark?
Speaker 4 (22:53):
No, maybe not.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
The first two words can be changed to long hunted,
late slut. Now I think that probably was more accurate, right,
I mean, at least it made a little more sense
than longed hunt, long hunted, late sleuth invite you to
a slut youth hotel Hide, and this is a celebrities.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
It reminds me of that phrase. It reminds me of
the phrase the hunt become the hunted.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Well, the other thing it reminds me of is we've
got you know again. Heidi Flies running the madam thing
in California, and maybe he's trying to tell on her
because she's providing girls for the celebrities. Yeah, something was odd,
and the timing of this is just not coincidental. So
I also believe the finished part of this profile says, yes,
(23:47):
the only investigator who called in our suspect died. He
is indeed a late sleuth who long hunted. Does such
a hotel as Hotel Hide exist? Perhaps in the city
is a slut youth hotel? Why would he want to
invite us to a slut youth hotel? The message is bizarre,
cryptic and seemingly composed in a brief moment just to
(24:10):
tease the public and the police department. So this postcard
was mailed on nine twenty five, ninety. Other close Zodiac
dates are Donna lass On the Sierra Club card is
nine twenty six of seventy and the Lake Very Sa
murder is September twenty seventh of nineteen sixty nine, So
it is fitting in with the date scheme of the zodiac.
(24:33):
Are these victims regarded by sluts as sluts by the zodiac?
I go back to heidiflies cipher is oh it said,
this says British. Everything else I read said Germans. So
cipher is a British spelling for cipher. Another clue. He
misspelled Harold for Harold, so he used an O instead
of an A for the newspaper, which is another clue
(24:55):
because we've seen in the Black Dahlia the postcards that
were mailed he oftentimes misspelled the Times Harold on purpose.
He knew how to spell it, but he would consistently
misspell it on purpose. Yeah, if a prankster did all
of this, he is very clever. Indeed, even the handprinting
is very similar to some of the zodiacs. And whoever
(25:15):
this is is an l L. I don't know what
his name is. I'd like to give him a shout
out for this, because I think he pretty much nailed
some very important parts on profiling that particular card.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
So I threw that up against.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
The dB Cooper cards and the Scorpion letters, which we're
going to be talking about here shortly in the John
Walsh case, and we can see that the handwriting is
definitely right up that alley. It is similar. It looks
like even the same smell of pen, almost like a
felt tip pen is being used, which I coin Jack
and the Zodiac for that is Jack's favorite pen, hands down.
(25:50):
And then we see the Zodiac using it in many
of the communications. So and the postcard list.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
Well, and that all tie all links into John Walsh
because and why he was in contact with him. Whether
they knew each other or not, I think that they
did because if you look, you know how the media
portrays things. Oh yeah, they want you to look the
other way and blame it all on one person. Right,
It's the same concept in John Walsh's America's Most Wanted.
(26:22):
They're there want you to go find the help find
the bad guy. Don't look over here, but you need
to be looking over here to go find the bad
guy in your town and your city and all that,
and call this number for your tips and blah blah
blah whenever it's really it's really the bad guys over there,
and he knows it.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Yes, it's yeah, disinformation sending us on a wild ga.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
We're hunting for snipes.
Speaker 5 (26:51):
So they just used him as his as their little
ponzi exactly.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Now let's follow up with another nineteen ninety communication. This
one is always intrigued me as well, because guess what,
it doesn't get published until two thousand and seven. Their
backstory behind it is that somebody must have inadvertently set
it on a shelf and forgot about it.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
My lily white, My lily white.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
I think people are so familiar with the Zodiac's style
of writing, especially somebody at the San Francisco Chronicle. There's
no way this thing got set on a shelf and withheld.
It was withheld on purpose, is my take. We just
saw that the Celebrity Cipher was the nineteen eighty six
letter was. We're gonna see that the John Walsh was
like it's becoming now a complete mo of these individuals
(27:39):
in the order of these communications.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Now, this one's.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Postmark December of nineteen ninety the Christmas card and Master
Postal Keys is a copy of two Master Postal keys
inside this card. I've been saying this entire time that
there is probable evidence that the Zodiac is in possession
of cancelations, stamps, and other types of postal stuff which
is owned.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
By the government.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
And if he is a government employed by the government,
as the Zodiac and all these other happenings, he would
likely be given this kind of stuff in order to
perpetrate the facade that he's putting on. Either way, the
card itself is addressed to the editor, San Francisco Chronicle,
nine oh one Mission Street, San Francisco, California, ninety four
(28:24):
one oh three. That's the only handwriting, and that's on
the outside of the envelope. And it has a twenty
like a twenty five cent Christmas stamp, and we know
how he likes the stamps. This being mailed, I really
can't tell the date, but it is definitely December of
nineteen ninety. And then the card itself is a Groucho
(28:45):
Marx or a disguise if you will. It's got the
Groucho Marx glasses and nose on a snowman, and it
has a jack rabbit in the.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
Forefront, which I always get. I always laugh at Jack.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
I see jack rabbits and things because I feel like
that's his representation of who he is. It says, from
your secret pal, can't guess who I am yet, question mark,
Well look inside and you'll find out. So this is
where that whole guest theme in the nineteen seventy eight
letter they tried to say was a hoax, and the
(29:21):
nineteen eighty seven letter that they tried to say was
a hoax. These two letters say guests on them. So
this led this Christmas card is following right in tandem
with what the Zodiac is saying. It all runs together.
The inside of the card says, yes.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
I noticed one thing I noticed on the envelope. It
so he spells out California and right, and the handwriting
looks neater, but it looks very similar to Zodiac.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Absolutely, if not just Zodiac, many other communications within this range.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
The inside of the card says later, so.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Yeah, yeah, well, but we're seeing, like I said, this
ramp up in the nineties. When Jack's about to leave
California again, it's no different than him going to Texas
killing and then coming back here. He's perpetrating all these
messages and he's gonna leave to Texas. The inside of
the card says that I'm going to keep you guessing.
Happy Holidays anyway. Now, let's talk about a little bit
(30:23):
of that. The front of the Christmas card. The Snowman
in disguise and the Jack rabbit we just discussed is
equal to the Oakland County child murders aka the Snowman murders,
the Zodiac Scorpion I forty five, Robert gray Smith, and
so many more from your secret Pal.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
Can't guess who I am? Yet? Well look inside and
you'll find out.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
This whole secret Pal I think is you know, runs
in tandem with you. Guys haven't figured me out yet,
right like telling the cops they not doing their jobs,
and you can't figure out who I am. See copy
of the post office box keys. I thought that was
interesting because and we're going to get.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
To that in a second. I'm not going to talk
about that yet.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Her Harriet Souchet. The serial numbers on the keys indicate
military use for New Jersey and Washington, d C. And
that was an initial take. Obviously, this is information from
way back in two thousand and nine. Jack, of course,
being a supply sergeant in the Air Force, would have
had access to postal keys back when he was in
the service. But if he's currently working under the guise
(31:27):
of like mk ulture or anything else, some type of
a project, he's going to have access to these, they'd
be handed over to him. It's also a goodbye letter,
as I call it, before leaving California. Once again, just
as I said, it's an anniversary letter like the Donna
Lass and Georgette Bauerdorf and others. And it's also coming
at a time when Jack is going to lead the
(31:49):
state nineteen ninety. Jack and Nora live in Sacramento until
at least December of nineteen ninety and then I want
to say in sometime in nineteen ninety one is when
they separated and split. So here's some information that I
found on the Christmas card. It says the nineteen ninety
Christmas card from the Zodiac Killer. While preparing for an
(32:09):
article about the release of the new film, Oh isn't
this perfect? Timing employees at the San Francisco Chronicle discovered
what appeared to be a long forgotten communication from the
elusive penpal, postmarked in Eureka, there's another hint in Klue,
California in December nineteen ninety. The red envelope was overlooked
amid the many hoax letters and forgeries that plagued the
(32:30):
newspaper after the release of Gracema's first book and the
sensational media coverage surrounding the crimes of the Zodiac copycat
killer in the New York If the card was an
authentic Zodiac communication, the killer was still alive as late
as nineteen ninety, still taunting and still at large, more
than sixteen years after his brief appearance in nineteen seventy four.
Now they're lying to us in this editorial because they're
(32:53):
making it sound like the last time he wrote was
nineteen seventy four. We've just talked about a slew of communication,
including one identified by a document examiner that was written
in nineteen eighty six. So don't I'm going to give
this very little credibility whatsoever, but I'm going to read
it for what it's worth. It says addressed to the
chronicle and pencil and with an eerily familiar style. The
(33:15):
envelope bore a twenty five cent that depicted a Christmas
tree and contained a holiday greeting card. On the front
of the card, a snowman wearing a Groucho mark nose,
mustache and glasses stands in a snowstorm as a small
rabbit watches.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
The text of.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
The card was reminiscent of the Zodiac's Halloween card to
reporter Paul Avery more than twenty years earlier. And we've
already read the message, we'll skip that the writer had
also included a xerox of two keys on a chain
attached to a small pen like cylinder marked a USPS
for the United States Postal Service. The keys had identification
(33:50):
numbers of undetermined significance, leading to speculation that the xerox
might lead to a post office box containing the identity
of the Zodiac or some other clue that could prove
the solution to the case. So again, we're discussing post
office boxes again. Tom Voight, founder of the website zodiac
(34:11):
killer dot com, attempted to track down the individual who
had rented the post office box in December nineteen ninety.
The investigation led Voight to a man he dubbed Now.
I don't know if any of this information is true
at all. Sandy Bett says that she was in on
this particular part of the investigation, but Harriet claims that
the actual codes on these keys go to different locations
(34:32):
than what they're saying here about. Tom Voight says the
investigation led Voight to a man he dubbed Sam, and
a list of circumstantial evidence which appeared to implicate the
new suspect. He's either the Zodiac, Voight said, or he's
a perfect example of how easy it is to find
a great Zodiac suspect.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
After completing his amateur investigation, Voight turned his information over
to authorities, who then conducted a quiet, yet official investigation.
Sam was eventually cleared as suspect. Look at you go, Voight,
You can't even uh yeah, but evidently he can throw
a suspect at him. And I think that this guy
was probably even I don't know if he was dead
at this time, but I know that they were really
(35:13):
trying to steal the deal on somebody who died before
the anthrax letters. It says the authenticity. So and of
course this is being written in two thousand and seven,
so it may have been after nineteen ninety that he
did this investigation into the Oh, it'd have to be
Wait a minute, now, I'm confused. So they find the
letter in two thousand and seven. So at some point
(35:33):
after two thousand and seven is when he conducts this
investigation into those Polstle keys and ends up at this
man's place.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
Okay, let's see.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
The authenticity of the nineteen ninety Christmas card became the
subject of debate. While many who followed the case believed
that the Zodiac was responsible for familiar writing on the
red envelope, others believed that the card was the work
of a forger. The San Francisco Chronicle consulted with a
retired handwriting expert who had once worked on the Zodiac letters.
The expert claimed that he had memorized the killers writing,
(36:04):
and based on his memory, he determined that the card
was a forgery. The person, I don't know how, he
concluded that, I mean, honestly, the person responsible. I know
I know the person responsible card right, and who hoaxes it?
Speaker 6 (36:24):
That?
Speaker 4 (36:24):
Well?
Speaker 3 (36:25):
I mean, the tants are are phenomenal and they're in line.
And why would you, I mean really, why would you.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Writing an expert?
Speaker 4 (36:36):
No, it does not say who it was.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
I think Truwood, Merrill, Zacumo right.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
That Terrence Pascal would be one of them. Lloyd Cunningham
would be another. Those are three that I know who
worked on the Zodiac case. The person responsible for the
writing on the envelope had traced over the lines in
several places, and according to the expert, the Zodiac never
did so. The expert was apparently unaware that the Zodiac
had traced over the lines of his writing and several communications. Wow,
(37:08):
so they just shut the expert down. The expert makes
a claim that the Zodiac never did this, and now
they're blatantly saying the expert was unaware that the Zodiac
actually had done this the nineteen ninety Christmas card some expert.
The nineteen ninety Christmas card remains a controversial and dubious
addition to the long list of suspected Zodiac correspondence. So
(37:30):
now let's do some comparisons. I lined up the word
editor from one that went to the San Francisco Chronicle
that we know, in fact is the Zodiac's handwriting. Look
at the way this stuff is written, like, oh my gosh,
editor lines up perfect, guys. There's this huge gas D
D and the I and yeah and that's just one word.
(37:51):
I decided to line up this week just to be
able to show you guys something in lieu of the handwriting,
because I did complete this Christmas card as a product
of the overall handwriting examination that we did way back when. However,
I still when we come to these communications for the
first time chronologically, I want to remind people how close
of a match it is to what we are looking
(38:11):
at and what we've seen throughout all these crimes.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
Freeze.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Now, this information on these particular keys is interesting, and
I don't know that if that's a pen light like
a flashlight attached to this keychain. It looks like it
has a little something up here that might be a
button that you would push. It's long and tubular, and
it's on a chain with these two keys, the postal
(38:38):
cold codelight. Yeah right, it's kind of what it looks like.
Here are I believe the numbers that are made out
that are actually scribed into these postal keys. One is
seven nine four zero eight. Usps do not duplicate, and
then the other is usps do not duplicate five eight
eight five one. Now, Harriet's research of these particular numbers
(39:03):
indicated that one of these went to Princeton, New Jersey. Huh,
that's interesting because the Scorpion author, writing to John Walsh
says he just moved into New Jersey and add twenty
three victims. Okay, but it's memory.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
I'll get to that.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
The other one evidently is an international box. And my
contention there is that we saw the fake anthrax letters
come out of Thailand and Malaysia, which we're supposed to mimic.
The fact that whoever sent the anthrax letters in the
United States has now left the country and we should
be looking for him out of the country. To me,
(39:45):
it was just a ploy to point you in the
wrong direction. But interesting to note that that is an
international post office box key. And from what the chronicle says,
and I don't know again, you know, did they make
this whole story up that these keys went back to
a post office box to a man named Sam.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
Either way, he was cleared all right.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Nineteen ninety one, this is where we actually see Jack
back in Texas again, and he is writing a eulogy
for his brother Chuck. Oh, actually, Dawn the youngest is
writing a eulogy for their brother Chuck. And in Dennis's book,
he writes, nineteen ninety one Jack retires and mom, Jack
and Charles moved out of their duplex. So here we
(40:30):
have him. I thought he actually worked for HP till
nineteen ninety three, but Dennis is saying that he retired
in nineteen ninety one, So that makes all these trips
in the nineties back to Texas extremely possible, says Mom,
Jack and Charles moved out of their duplex that they
had lived in for nine years and moved into a
motor home. Charles was able to complete his elementary years
(40:52):
without having to change schools because they moved their motor
home and lived on.
Speaker 4 (40:55):
The side of our house for about six months.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Then they moved to and he lists off off Washington, Arizona,
and Texas all the way through up until about nineteen
ninety eight, in which case I believe he's going to
indicate that he has come back, but I'm not going
to take us that far in the chronological order right yet.
By nineteen ninety one, Jack moved to Texas, which coincides
with Kaufman's and Deuherst's respective books, which indicates that he
(41:20):
retired from Pinkerton or Hewlett Packard in nineteen ninety one
at the age of sixty three. February eleventh of nineteen
ninety one, Jack has a copy of a eulogy that
Don Terrence wrote for their brother Chuck Charles Arthur Terrence
Chuck served six years in the Air Force, which would
be consistent with Jack's entering the military and Air Force
in nineteen fifty four, when he appeared in Michigan and
(41:40):
ran off with truck to San Francisco, leaving Chuck's wife
and baby, I think in Arkansas. I'm a little curious
about this eulogy, though, because it's actually stating that Chuck
died at the age of thirty nine in nineteen ninety one,
and we know that's not true because based on Jack's
own pictures, we see that Charles Arthur is born in
nineteen thirty five. He is literally I think I've calculated
(42:03):
that out fifty six in nineteen ninety one. Who would
make such a mistake on their own brothers age? That
confused me a little bet.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Jack Benny say it's thirty nine. Who Jack Benny the comedian?
Speaker 4 (42:21):
Uh huh?
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Every time you had a birthday nine?
Speaker 4 (42:27):
Maybe it was a joke and presented properly printed.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Yeah, all right. So in this particular FOYA file, if
from the FBI archives, it's realized by the FBI law
enforcement that their number one suspect, Arthur Lee Allen's fingerprints
were never compared to the Layton prints collected in the
Zodiac Killers crime scenes. I find this hilarious. You guys
(42:54):
are nailing and pegging this guy as the number one
suspect and you haven't even looked at his fingerprints and
his phone print vents. So evidently they were sent. They
procured the prince, and they did the testing. The million
dollar question that I like to ask if Allan was cleared,
So this FOYA file says that he was basically.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
Clear that they are not a match.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
If Allan was cleared on three twenty two of ninety one,
is not matching any of the thirty seven latent prints
on file in these crimes. Why did Robert gray Smith
continue to name him in his sequels Zodiac un Massed
in nineteen ninety six, And why did Harry Phillips of
twenty twenty include Alan in the DNA testing that they
failed to do on Jack. This story told by Dennis
(43:34):
and myself in two thousand. It's either two thousand and
nine or twenty ten. I think it was about the
time we were about to do Aphrodite Jones. I spoke
with Harry Phillips of twenty on twenty. He had indicated
that they had done this DNA testing on I believe
eight people, and I asked, why didn't you do Jacks.
Why was Jack's DNA not included in this run? And
(43:56):
he said, because we knew the other eight people weren't
the zodiac. Guess what, Arthur Lee Allen was one of
those people that were tested and were cleared. Yet they
go on in the two thousand and seven movie and
make it out once again that Arthur Lee Allen is
the actual suspect. I mean, these people just will not
let this bone go, or they think we're going to
(44:16):
and we're not going to continue, you know, ammering down
that you are lying about Arthur Lee Allen to distract
from the truth.
Speaker 4 (44:25):
Anybody have anything to add on that.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
No. Same with the net Netflix. It focuses mainly on
Elan more about Alan's about Zodia exactly. It was really
close to that's what that well doctor about.
Speaker 6 (44:45):
So that's well I was going to say, I was
going to just ask.
Speaker 5 (44:48):
That that's just part of the reputation, part of them
trying to the mind control where it goes that all
the way back to nk Ultra, where that's literally what
they use as as a still to repeat, repeat, repeat.
Speaker 6 (45:02):
Things and make it make people.
Speaker 5 (45:04):
Believe, oh, we're gonna and it always makes their brain
go oh like a light bulb.
Speaker 6 (45:10):
Arthur Lee Allen, and that's why he she's being brought.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Up right right, And that's what media and that's what
TV is good for, is mind control, letting us allowing
us to believe the small amounts of information that they
want before they hit us with a big deal or
vice versa, disinformation in whole. So the next FBI foy
A file I find absolutely floored me. It was the
(45:35):
last one in the foil in the Foyat archives for
the FBI and it is dated four twenty four of
nineteen ninety one. So now we have Arthur Lee Allen
who's been cleared in March twenty ninth of ninety and
ninety one, and April twenty fourth of ninety one, a
month later, the FBI is pulling out of the investigation.
Why would the Sacramento FBI discontinue their investigation into this
(45:59):
maniac when clear his operating across state lines, children are involved,
and it seems to be something that is right up
their alley or at least in their jurisdiction. That's when
I plopped in here, Epstein being filthy rich, because that's
telling me that this person is going to continue to
get away with it because the powers that be are
making sure that he does. That was my second million
(46:20):
dollar question in regards to this. Why did the FBI
shut down their investigation? This is still an extortion case
and an extortion of many newspapers and many individuals at
this particular time. In August of August eighth of nineteen
ninety one, we find Jane Doe number three in the
(46:40):
killing fields, which I believe has been identified League City
with Phi Miller and Jane Doe number two were found
again both the Jing do I know two of the
Jane does so. This one says there's a third Jane Doe.
I'm not sure if that one has been identified yet.
I'll have to go back and look at that. That
actually brings us to the communication. And I believe this
(47:02):
one comes out of the Walsh files, correct, Lindsay, Yes,
this is a It's sent to Charlie Reese of the
Sentinel Star. I think that we've talked about the Sentinel Star.
Speaker 6 (47:15):
Oh, yeah, we have. The major one is in Florida.
Where he's from. Well, well, well i'll say where he's from.
He's from He's from New York actually, but he resided
in Florida most of his life.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
And I believe either a fake or a real anthrax
letter was also mailed to the Star. Well, we're going
to be coming up on that soon, but I'm pretty
sure that the Sentinel Star or the Star is one
of the entities that received one of the anthrax letters.
So this was sent to Harriet, I guess from Megan Walsh.
(47:52):
I see Megan's name on the side here, and it
was December eighth of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 4 (47:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (47:57):
She just posted it online and that's where Harriet got
it from, or if she was communicating with Megan Walsh
and received this letter.
Speaker 4 (48:05):
So it was I think I seen it.
Speaker 6 (48:07):
I think that was before she met Harriet, and Harriet
has saw it and contacted her about what. You know,
She's been researching already, and I think.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
Harriet believes that it was mailed in nineteen eighty four.
So I'm going to have to put that back in
chronological order with nineteen eighty four in the Happenings of
Adam Walsh, because this letter is definitely in regards to him.
I did a little bit of map questing when I
was looking at it, because I was a little bit
shocked to hear that this was Hollywood, Florida. I guess
I never really tuned into that when I looked at it.
(48:41):
On the map, Hollywood, Florida is right in between Donya
Beach and Fort Lauderdale, and we have a picture of
Jack and Fort Lauderdale which looks like it is circa
the couples killing in Donia Beach back in nineteen forty six,
and I think that was too let law enforcement know
they didn't have the right person in jail for the
(49:03):
texar Cana phantom murders.
Speaker 4 (49:05):
So we have these.
Speaker 3 (49:06):
Couples that are murdered in or a set of couples
in Dania Donia Beach that were murdered, and it's very
close to the Hollywood area and also very close to
Fort Lauderdale. All of these were about fourteen to seventeen
minutes apart. So this letter says, I met this guy
in Ocala Barr who said he knew someone that would
(49:28):
pay ten grand for a young boy. This guy had
lost his kid and his wife was going nuts. We
took the deal. He paid cash.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
I went to It.
Speaker 3 (49:40):
Looks like he's going to start to say Chicago, but
that words cut off, so I don't have all of
this message. I went to Chicago. Let's say my friend
stayed put, so indicating that he stayed in the Florida area.
I get back and find this kid was killed. I
know his name was Adam and he was from the Islands.
(50:01):
We got him in Hollywood. I don't know this man's name,
he don't know mine. He is a big beard and
don't wear any shoes on his feet. He is crazy,
as I'm gonna guess, hell is what this?
Speaker 2 (50:15):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (50:15):
So this is the one that as sent you in
an email a couple of days ago that I have
found again, and and and then there's more correspondence added
to it so you can see the full thing in
your email if if you want to, just bring it
back up later.
Speaker 3 (50:32):
Yeah, you know what, And this this episode has been
so Christine. We're out of time, and I'm going to
follow up with all those emails and the information you
sent me. Lindsay, everybody, have a wonderful weekend. Thank you
both for being here.
Speaker 4 (50:44):
We'll see you next Friday. Well, one thing, we're done, guys.
Speaker 3 (50:50):
We got to cut it off one minutes, all right,
We'll see y'all next week.
Speaker 6 (51:03):
To sh
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You should seek the services.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Good Morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
We are going to pick up where we left off
on the Metro City trip with Jack and Nora in
nineteen ninety. But first I'd like to bring onto the
show Nolan del Campo.
Speaker 4 (01:10):
After everybody, good morning, welcome back. I know we'll confuse ourselves,
and then Lindsay mcgrair, Yeah, are you with us?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
Hey?
Speaker 4 (01:23):
How are you doing?
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Nicety?
Speaker 4 (01:28):
All right?
Speaker 3 (01:29):
So I was just a little short on the last
episode where I missed the celebrity cipher, So we're going
to actually be catching up with that one here in
this particular show, which will be one of the communications
that are sent in nineteen ninety. Before I climb back
onto that, I just I had one more question. I
think of Nolan when I was discussing the Jeffrey Epstein stuff.
(01:52):
In regards to the plea deal, I guess if you will,
that he signed for eighteen months with the U S
District Attorney. They indicated that his name was Alan Alexander Acosta, right,
I don't know that. Okay, Alexander Acossa then became part
(02:13):
of Trump's administration.
Speaker 4 (02:17):
And then had to resign once the.
Speaker 3 (02:19):
News broke that he gave this sweet plea deal to
Epstein without the victim's knowledge.
Speaker 4 (02:28):
Okay, I just.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
Wanted to make it, yes, yes, yeah, So it just
dawned on me afterwards when I said US District Attorney
that I didn't actively put all the puzzle pieces together
for everybody so they could see when I say they
can make or break your career. I wouldn't doubt it
at all if Acosta didn't make Trump's administration because he
(02:52):
did what he did for Epstein. I mean, it's like
a classic Blacklist episode. You do dirty for us, and
we'll give you a promotion.
Speaker 5 (03:06):
Well, how about this. I have something even crazier than
that on Epstein that I researched recently and found out.
So I don't know if you guys remember the US
Attorney Bill Barr.
Speaker 4 (03:19):
No, what where is he? The US attorney for.
Speaker 5 (03:23):
Of the United States?
Speaker 4 (03:25):
Okay, well, I.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Think the US Attorney Center Costa wasn't for the United
States as much as I think he was in Florida
the district attorney.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
And I'm not sure.
Speaker 5 (03:37):
Yeah, he was the one in Florida. But what I'm
saying is in Trump's first administration it was Bill Barr
of the United States District Attorney. And so Bill Barr
is the son of I can't remember his father's name,
but it's another bar who was the one who actually
(03:57):
hired Jeffrey Epstein for that teacher job at that prestige private.
Speaker 6 (04:04):
School and shut off in the seventies.
Speaker 4 (04:07):
I swear to God.
Speaker 3 (04:08):
Yep, the one he lied to get into. So somebody
had to give him a referral. Well, I guess no,
because when they did call on it and found out
that he hadn't gone to any of the schools, somebody
told the truth on that end. So yeah, he's pumped.
He's pumped by big names. Then that's how.
Speaker 5 (04:27):
He started with Bill Barr's father.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Wow, Okay, yep.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
His sentence was only eighteen months.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
And he only served twelve and twelve hours out of
the day. He was on work release, so he left
in the morning and came back at night to serve
his twelve month sentence.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
He heard that he had.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Does not make sense.
Speaker 3 (04:52):
That well, that was a separate indictment and conviction. That's
when New York FBI got involved and they took over
the case, and they prosecuted based on all the actual victims.
So the pros for Florida only focused in on some
type of a prostitution charge. Nothing about children, nothing about
human trafficking, nothing that that the complaints were showing from
(05:16):
all of the people's testimony. And he literally said out
loud on a press release, we just don't have enough
information or evidence to convict him. The hell you say
you have more than forty victims. Also, they're just room
his massage parlor. The size of his penis.
Speaker 4 (05:33):
Come on, how do you know not hav enough?
Speaker 5 (05:36):
Well, Nolan, Nolan, the first time he was in there
for like she just said, and he was able to
come and go through work release for those eighteen months.
That was the first time in seven whenever he got
in trouble the first time and then the second time,
Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
Yeah, it was cover on nineteen.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
It was a cover in nineteen he was in the
Raildale He was in the Rialdale Praiser.
Speaker 2 (06:05):
Yeah, that's why. Okay, so it was a way different confinement.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Oh yeah, yes, yes, And they were complaining that the
help or the employees of this particular jail were either sleeping,
not doing their jobs, not manning the people that are
incarcerated there, which gave him the opportunity to kill himself,
when really it sounds to me like they all ski daddled,
(06:29):
So whatever was going to happen to Epstein could happen
freely without any interference by anybody.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
The whole thing just sounds rigged.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
And like I said, the independent corner, who did I guess?
Epstein's brother asked an independent corner to look at the
body and do an autopsy. Found that the hyoid bone
was broken in three places, and he did not feel
like from the position he was hung off of his bed,
hung that he would have caused that type of an
(06:58):
impact that would been strong enough to break those bones.
So that leads to the theory that he was killed
once he was incarcerated.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
So basically, they made him.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
And this is where I'm saying to you guys, they
made him and then they broke him literally exactly well.
Speaker 5 (07:15):
And also that indication of the high piled bone, I
cannot say that word hid bone is an indicator of strangulation.
And it's almost nine times out of ten that when
that bone is broken that that is a prime indicator
in a lot of different cases that I've researched, a
prime indication of strangulation.
Speaker 4 (07:36):
Right, well, but not hanging.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
Hanging holds it a different Yeah, it holds basically when
you hang yourself, not the same.
Speaker 4 (07:44):
Yeah, it's not the same.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Pressure in the location it needs to be to be
able to break it. And since he couldn't get up
high enough to say, jump off something to cause a break,
or the impact of something that could cause that break,
it is suspect that he was killed so well.
Speaker 5 (08:00):
And I also literally when I heard that those results
of that autopsy, it really brought me back to John Beney.
And that's literally the same bone in her neck that
was broken because of the strangulation.
Speaker 3 (08:13):
So right, and in that case, they were strangling her
and we know that they used a garat to do it,
and that caused probably ample amount of pressure from an
adult to cause that breakage.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
All right, yeah, off.
Speaker 3 (08:27):
Myself, yes, because the FBI in New York took over.
Speaker 4 (08:33):
He also had a house in New York.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
So he had committed this, these crimes all over the
United States and then off on that island as well.
So he's crossed international barriers with human trafficking.
Speaker 4 (08:43):
Child abuse.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
I mean, you just name it. It was everything that's
right up the FBI's alley. This should have been turned
over to the FBI upon when Acosta got the deal
to convict him, So he went behind the vision. Yes,
Alexander Acosta was the district attorney who gave him the
plea deal. And of the eighteen months they gave him,
(09:08):
he only spent twelve, so he didn't even do the
full eighteen months, and he had I think by the
time they were done, it sounded to me like they
had over one hundred victims on one investigation in Florida
surmounted to over forty, and then New York surmounted to
another sixty. It was a ridiculous amount. And not only
was he having sex with these girls, but he was
then farming them out to all of his rich friends.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
And powerful friends that made him so this.
Speaker 5 (09:35):
And then he would also pay the girls to go
out and find other girls like to go back and
talk to their friends about it.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
Correct, he was grooming them to yes, make a supply,
all right. It is a huge network. Well, and that's
why I say, I wonder if he took over Heidi
Fleiss's list.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
She Happened documentary primary focuses on the stuff that happened
in Florida, mentioned the island, but it doesn't mention much
stuff in New York.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
No, it doesn't really mention a lot of a lot
of the things that it should be mentioning. It's really
trying to isolate him as the monster and really kind
of shed doubt in people's minds as to whether or
not these politicians and these rich people are involved. But
like I said, he's his only client. And this came
from Lindsay was Adman Koshoge who was in human trafficking
(10:31):
with Baby Ribosa Roboso in the FBI files on Baby Riboso.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
So I mean it's all.
Speaker 5 (10:38):
That when when she says only client is she means
that means his He had his own side business too,
and but then would be working for all these other
people money laundering and things like that and everything else
under the bus and then but that, but personally under
his business name, that was his only client. So that's
(11:01):
fine when I think you brought it up the last
show when you said when no one said, well he
had so and so that's where he had those of
the other the other clients weren't his personal clients. They
were clients of him that used him for these purposes
of the whatever they're doing.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
And that's how he became so rich. I mean, honestly speaking,
that's where the money's coming from, is all these illegal dealings.
Speaker 6 (11:28):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (11:29):
All right, So back to this year presentation, we see
that Nora is in front of a cream colored van.
At one point in time, I did find a crime
spree that indicated witnesses seeing a cream colored van. I
want to say that I feel like it was something
that was in the Sun of Sam murders. But I
don't know when they got this van or how long
they've had it. And Son of Sam was what eighty four?
Speaker 6 (11:54):
Uh, yeah, I thought it was a lot earlier than now.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
It was.
Speaker 5 (12:01):
It was a couple of years, I think, Yeah, it
was a seventy.
Speaker 4 (12:05):
Nine eighty.
Speaker 3 (12:11):
And probably probably much older than this van. I don't
know when they received this van, but we can clearly
see them going on vacation in it.
Speaker 4 (12:22):
And I color it's a cream colored van.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
It says is mentioned as a suspect vehicle and crimes
related oh to the I forty five killer. So now
when I'm saying that he's back and forth to Texas
and a cream colored van and a security officer coplike
uniform is some of the eyewitnesses statements. We've got the
cream colored van and we've got the security guard outfit
that makes him look like a cop. I'm saying, like
(12:47):
he really needs to be looked at for these I
forty five killings. And possibly it said Anthony Allen Shore.
I think I needed to research that. I'm not I
want to say Anthony Allen Shore was also part of
or in a cream color vand which is probably why
I put that there.
Speaker 4 (13:03):
Either way, Hey, yo, work it well like they like
well and they love to use vans. Oh always, Well,
this one has too many windows to be a pedo van.
They're not blacked out. Yeah you found your buck, Nolan.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, I think I think it was mid seventies it's
my recollection.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
I feel like it was eighties, late seventies, late seventies. Yeah,
too many slides for me to go back to figure
it out. At this point, I do see it coming
across nat yes, but clearly. All right, so I'll just
get back at this presentation while you're looking.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
So next week, Oh, what'd you find?
Speaker 2 (13:57):
Seventy seven?
Speaker 4 (14:00):
Okay?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
Yeah, so seventies.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Okay, and he probably did not at this time. I
think he still had the blue Dodge because seventy seven
was him coming back from Minnesota area and moving back
to Texas, and he still had the blue Dodge.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
So yep. No, the cream color van came in, was
that a blue dogvan? No, it was a.
Speaker 3 (14:27):
Truck with a white camper which is another witness sighting
of some of these killing sprees is the blue truck
with a white camper shell. And Jack had that, so.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
He was highly conspicuous. Sam murders too, and.
Speaker 3 (14:45):
Jack did have in the seventies a yellow Volkswagen as well,
So there's a there's a lot of coincidences with Jack's vehicles,
Nora's vehicles, and these crimes. So yeah, all right, so
I put up here. I need to research the source.
There is a celebrity cipher that came out on a postcard,
(15:07):
says notes say, two weeks later, couple found dead in
San Francisco. I needed to do a handwriting examination on this,
but it looks to me like some of this stuff
is very consistent with what we have been looking at.
I will have to break that part at a different time.
This is mailed on September twenty fifth, nineteen ninety. It
is labeled the Celebrity Cipher. Cipher is spelled with a
y instead of an eye, and it is a German
(15:31):
spelling of the word cipher, so it says, well, it's
mostly a cipher and then it just says celebrity cipher.
Valeo Times Herald, Valleo, California. So here, following up on
the last nineteen eighty seven letter that we did see
the solve for being mailed to the BALAOPD, we have
another letter. So it's like, right now, Jack's getting ready
(15:55):
to leave you guys. I mean he's separating from Nora
even and he's going to move to Texas for about
a year year and a half. I think that they're
separated and don't get back together until ninety two, and
we're seeing the onset of all of these messages that
are being blasted to the VALLEOPD. What else did we Well,
we saw a couple of them, oh, the nineteen eighty
(16:16):
six letter that went to the Sacramento b So we're
seeing this ramp up of communications like don't forget me,
I'm still out here. And of course Herrett would probably
tell you that he's trying to reach out and convey
a message to somebody higher up. So I did receive
this particular version from Sandy Betts. She had attended a
seminar in which I believe the gentleman that ran it
(16:37):
was either former FBI or something to that effect, and
he was investigating this particular letter. I always get interested
in these former FBI agents that all of a sudden
want to play armchair detective after they're die.
Speaker 5 (16:51):
Yes, I can't stand it.
Speaker 6 (16:53):
It's just so un makes makes me feel uneasy.
Speaker 4 (16:58):
Right right, what are you doing? What are you giving
us disinformation? Why are you here? Why do you have.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Access to things that shouldn't be outside of the agency
If it's still an unsolved crime, that's what we would
be told, is the public. So how is it that
you have access to this stuff. So basically, I'm going
to read to you the cliff notes that this man
spoke on in regards to this, it says, the Celebrity
Cipher of nine twenty five ninety was never made public
(17:25):
by the Times Herald or the Valeo Police Department. Now
doesn't that sound familiar? The nineteen eighty six letter was
not made public either. I had to find out from
Terence Pascal, the former document examiner on the Zodiac case,
that it was believed to be a Zodiac communication, but
it was never released to the public. So now I've
got first yan information from somebody who used to work
the case, and we're seeing this from an FBI agent
(17:47):
saying this has never been seen before. So again I ask,
how do you have it? Why are you showing it
to us? And perhaps it was mailed during a period
of time when Arthur Lee Allen was in jail, and
that's why he suspects that it was withheld a conflict
of their preconceived opinions. However, it is my guess the
police just wanted to keep it quiet, or they thought
(18:09):
the card was simply a crank, a hoax, etc. It
seems as though they should have made it public. The
detective who gave us a copy seemed to imply they
thought it was a hoax. It is my opinion that
this is not a hoax, that this is truly from
the Zodiac. This is an important clue because it tells
us that Zodiac is still around and still very close
(18:30):
in fact, as this was mailed to the Valeo Times
Herald and not the San Francisco Chronicle. To the best
of our knowledge, VPD has the original tells us he
is closer to Valeo residents wise and more ties murder wise.
Speaker 4 (18:42):
So to speak.
Speaker 3 (18:43):
Yet it is only the Valeo Times Herald which prints
the Celebrity Cipher code game. So now we know why
it's labeled the Celebrity Cipher, because that's something that the
Valeo Times Herald is actually putting in their newspaper. But
what is so curious about this postcard is the wording
that the actual text of it. And I'm going to
climb into that in a second. But I don't know
(19:05):
if any of you guys caught that this letter was
mailed at a time that Arthur Lee Allen was incarcerated,
probably for abusing a child. I think that's what he
went to jail for, and that would not fit their
their groove. Robert gray Smith, who's being promoted by the
media and mass newspapers on his book of the Zodiac,
(19:25):
his take on Arthur Lee Allen being the actual suspect
when we know he's not tom boit's you know, act
and blaming Arthur Lee Allen for all that time. That
would have stripped them of their narrative. If if this
was put out to the public and it was known
that the Zodiac is still out there writing letters and
you guys have the wrong man for yourself.
Speaker 4 (19:45):
Well I figured it out.
Speaker 6 (19:46):
I figured it out.
Speaker 3 (19:48):
Hold On Nolan Nolan Nolan, hold On Lindsey was speaking,
I'll come right back to you.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
Go ahead.
Speaker 5 (19:53):
Well he took well, he I guess we were on
the same thought. That's what I was gonna say. What
how I ruled out author Lee Allen was after I
watched the Netflix documentary and then I did some digging
along with that, and immediately, almost immediately while watching the documentary,
ruled him out immediately because they were like, you just
(20:14):
said he wasn't even on their radar. Then they can
say he was, but he was not on their radar
at all whatsoever in any regard to the zodiac. And
so I mean, and that's how I figured out that
he was in jail during the during certain letters.
Speaker 4 (20:30):
Right, And they don't want.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
To does not mention that because it undercuts their theory
as well.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Exactly, Yep, it's all just a stirless pot. It's all
for disinformation purposes. It's no different for the narrative that
they're using in the Epstein cases, training to make it
look like Epstein was the only monster. So we all
forget about these high political figures that are actually banging children.
Speaker 4 (20:53):
I mean, come on, you guys.
Speaker 3 (20:58):
Now, this is the middle portion of this particular profile.
It says, if somebody was in fact playing a joke,
why would they duplicate two lines? Please note the top
two lines on the left side of the card, with
the bottom two lines on the right side of the card.
So let's look at that. So basically, these top two
in this left hand corner up here starts with a
(21:19):
zodiac symbol and an R A circle, a half shaded square,
and a plus sign is repeated at the bottom of
the right hand side, and so is that second line.
So his take on this is why would they duplicate
two lines? Please note the top two lines on the
(21:39):
left side of the card with the bottom two lines
on the right side of the card.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
They are the same.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
Why a prankster would not make such a simple mistake. Therefore,
I conclude it is not a mistake. A prankster, by
utilizing the same symbols as in the first three part
cipher code, could have invented or created a much spookier
or a more nasty message.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
Such a message might.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Read I will keep on killing, or you will never
catch me, or my slaves need more friends, or whatever,
anything something more chilling. But the deciphered symbols give us
a strange and almost incomprehensible array of jumbled words and
vague messages. And this is what it basically ciphered out
to longed hunt, Late sleuth, invite you to a slut
(22:24):
youth hotel.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Hide.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
That's not so crazy when we're talking about what's going
on with Epstein. A youth hotel, A slut youth hotel
that sounds to me like human trafficking. I'm blown away,
and this is coming at this time in nineteen ninety.
Please note that all symbols are used except to the
(22:49):
I and the queue. Perhaps he is asking, what is
your IQ question mark?
Speaker 4 (22:53):
No, maybe not.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
The first two words can be changed to long hunted,
late slut. Now I think that probably was more accurate, right,
I mean, at least it made a little more sense
than longed hunt, long hunted, late sleuth invite you to
a slut youth hotel Hide, and this is a celebrities.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
It reminds me of that phrase. It reminds me of
the phrase the hunt become the hunted.
Speaker 3 (23:24):
Well, the other thing it reminds me of is we've
got you know again. Heidi Flies running the madam thing
in California, and maybe he's trying to tell on her
because she's providing girls for the celebrities. Yeah, something was odd,
and the timing of this is just not coincidental. So
I also believe the finished part of this profile says, yes,
(23:47):
the only investigator who called in our suspect died. He
is indeed a late sleuth who long hunted. Does such
a hotel as Hotel Hide exist? Perhaps in the city
is a slut youth hotel? Why would he want to
invite us to a slut youth hotel? The message is bizarre,
cryptic and seemingly composed in a brief moment just to
(24:10):
tease the public and the police department. So this postcard
was mailed on nine twenty five, ninety. Other close Zodiac
dates are Donna lass On the Sierra Club card is
nine twenty six of seventy and the Lake Very Sa
murder is September twenty seventh of nineteen sixty nine, So
it is fitting in with the date scheme of the zodiac.
(24:33):
Are these victims regarded by sluts as sluts by the zodiac?
I go back to heidiflies cipher is oh it said,
this says British. Everything else I read said Germans. So
cipher is a British spelling for cipher. Another clue. He
misspelled Harold for Harold, so he used an O instead
of an A for the newspaper, which is another clue
(24:55):
because we've seen in the Black Dahlia the postcards that
were mailed he oftentimes misspelled the Times Harold on purpose.
He knew how to spell it, but he would consistently
misspell it on purpose. Yeah, if a prankster did all
of this, he is very clever. Indeed, even the handprinting
is very similar to some of the zodiacs. And whoever
(25:15):
this is is an l L. I don't know what
his name is. I'd like to give him a shout
out for this, because I think he pretty much nailed
some very important parts on profiling that particular card.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
So I threw that up against.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
The dB Cooper cards and the Scorpion letters, which we're
going to be talking about here shortly in the John
Walsh case, and we can see that the handwriting is
definitely right up that alley. It is similar. It looks
like even the same smell of pen, almost like a
felt tip pen is being used, which I coin Jack
and the Zodiac for that is Jack's favorite pen, hands down.
(25:50):
And then we see the Zodiac using it in many
of the communications. So and the postcard list.
Speaker 5 (25:59):
Well, and that all tie all links into John Walsh
because and why he was in contact with him. Whether
they knew each other or not, I think that they
did because if you look, you know how the media
portrays things. Oh yeah, they want you to look the
other way and blame it all on one person. Right,
It's the same concept in John Walsh's America's Most Wanted.
(26:22):
They're there want you to go find the help find
the bad guy. Don't look over here, but you need
to be looking over here to go find the bad
guy in your town and your city and all that,
and call this number for your tips and blah blah
blah whenever it's really it's really the bad guys over there,
and he knows it.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
Yes, it's yeah, disinformation sending us on a wild ga.
Speaker 4 (26:48):
We're hunting for snipes.
Speaker 5 (26:51):
So they just used him as his as their little
ponzi exactly.
Speaker 3 (26:56):
Now let's follow up with another nineteen ninety communication. This
one is always intrigued me as well, because guess what,
it doesn't get published until two thousand and seven. Their
backstory behind it is that somebody must have inadvertently set
it on a shelf and forgot about it.
Speaker 4 (27:11):
My lily white, My lily white.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
I think people are so familiar with the Zodiac's style
of writing, especially somebody at the San Francisco Chronicle. There's
no way this thing got set on a shelf and withheld.
It was withheld on purpose, is my take. We just
saw that the Celebrity Cipher was the nineteen eighty six
letter was. We're gonna see that the John Walsh was
like it's becoming now a complete mo of these individuals
(27:39):
in the order of these communications.
Speaker 4 (27:41):
Now, this one's.
Speaker 3 (27:42):
Postmark December of nineteen ninety the Christmas card and Master
Postal Keys is a copy of two Master Postal keys
inside this card. I've been saying this entire time that
there is probable evidence that the Zodiac is in possession
of cancelations, stamps, and other types of postal stuff which
is owned.
Speaker 4 (28:02):
By the government.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
And if he is a government employed by the government,
as the Zodiac and all these other happenings, he would
likely be given this kind of stuff in order to
perpetrate the facade that he's putting on. Either way, the
card itself is addressed to the editor, San Francisco Chronicle,
nine oh one Mission Street, San Francisco, California, ninety four
(28:24):
one oh three. That's the only handwriting, and that's on
the outside of the envelope. And it has a twenty
like a twenty five cent Christmas stamp, and we know
how he likes the stamps. This being mailed, I really
can't tell the date, but it is definitely December of
nineteen ninety. And then the card itself is a Groucho
(28:45):
Marx or a disguise if you will. It's got the
Groucho Marx glasses and nose on a snowman, and it
has a jack rabbit in the.
Speaker 4 (28:55):
Forefront, which I always get. I always laugh at Jack.
Speaker 3 (29:00):
I see jack rabbits and things because I feel like
that's his representation of who he is. It says, from
your secret pal, can't guess who I am yet, question mark,
Well look inside and you'll find out. So this is
where that whole guest theme in the nineteen seventy eight
letter they tried to say was a hoax, and the
(29:21):
nineteen eighty seven letter that they tried to say was
a hoax. These two letters say guests on them. So
this led this Christmas card is following right in tandem
with what the Zodiac is saying. It all runs together.
The inside of the card says, yes.
Speaker 2 (29:37):
I noticed one thing I noticed on the envelope. It
so he spells out California and right, and the handwriting
looks neater, but it looks very similar to Zodiac.
Speaker 3 (29:51):
Absolutely, if not just Zodiac, many other communications within this range.
Speaker 4 (29:58):
The inside of the card says later, so.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
Yeah, yeah, well, but we're seeing, like I said, this
ramp up in the nineties. When Jack's about to leave
California again, it's no different than him going to Texas
killing and then coming back here. He's perpetrating all these
messages and he's gonna leave to Texas. The inside of
the card says that I'm going to keep you guessing.
Happy Holidays anyway. Now, let's talk about a little bit
(30:23):
of that. The front of the Christmas card. The Snowman
in disguise and the Jack rabbit we just discussed is
equal to the Oakland County child murders aka the Snowman murders,
the Zodiac Scorpion I forty five, Robert gray Smith, and
so many more from your secret Pal.
Speaker 4 (30:41):
Can't guess who I am? Yet? Well look inside and
you'll find out.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
This whole secret Pal I think is you know, runs
in tandem with you. Guys haven't figured me out yet,
right like telling the cops they not doing their jobs,
and you can't figure out who I am. See copy
of the post office box keys. I thought that was
interesting because and we're going to get.
Speaker 4 (31:03):
To that in a second. I'm not going to talk
about that yet.
Speaker 3 (31:06):
Her Harriet Souchet. The serial numbers on the keys indicate
military use for New Jersey and Washington, d C. And
that was an initial take. Obviously, this is information from
way back in two thousand and nine. Jack, of course,
being a supply sergeant in the Air Force, would have
had access to postal keys back when he was in
the service. But if he's currently working under the guise
(31:27):
of like mk ulture or anything else, some type of
a project, he's going to have access to these, they'd
be handed over to him. It's also a goodbye letter,
as I call it, before leaving California. Once again, just
as I said, it's an anniversary letter like the Donna
Lass and Georgette Bauerdorf and others. And it's also coming
at a time when Jack is going to lead the
(31:49):
state nineteen ninety. Jack and Nora live in Sacramento until
at least December of nineteen ninety and then I want
to say in sometime in nineteen ninety one is when
they separated and split. So here's some information that I
found on the Christmas card. It says the nineteen ninety
Christmas card from the Zodiac Killer. While preparing for an
(32:09):
article about the release of the new film, Oh isn't
this perfect? Timing employees at the San Francisco Chronicle discovered
what appeared to be a long forgotten communication from the
elusive penpal, postmarked in Eureka, there's another hint in Klue,
California in December nineteen ninety. The red envelope was overlooked
amid the many hoax letters and forgeries that plagued the
(32:30):
newspaper after the release of Gracema's first book and the
sensational media coverage surrounding the crimes of the Zodiac copycat
killer in the New York If the card was an
authentic Zodiac communication, the killer was still alive as late
as nineteen ninety, still taunting and still at large, more
than sixteen years after his brief appearance in nineteen seventy four.
Now they're lying to us in this editorial because they're
(32:53):
making it sound like the last time he wrote was
nineteen seventy four. We've just talked about a slew of communication,
including one identified by a document examiner that was written
in nineteen eighty six. So don't I'm going to give
this very little credibility whatsoever, but I'm going to read
it for what it's worth. It says addressed to the
chronicle and pencil and with an eerily familiar style. The
(33:15):
envelope bore a twenty five cent that depicted a Christmas
tree and contained a holiday greeting card. On the front
of the card, a snowman wearing a Groucho mark nose,
mustache and glasses stands in a snowstorm as a small
rabbit watches.
Speaker 4 (33:30):
The text of.
Speaker 3 (33:30):
The card was reminiscent of the Zodiac's Halloween card to
reporter Paul Avery more than twenty years earlier. And we've
already read the message, we'll skip that the writer had
also included a xerox of two keys on a chain
attached to a small pen like cylinder marked a USPS
for the United States Postal Service. The keys had identification
(33:50):
numbers of undetermined significance, leading to speculation that the xerox
might lead to a post office box containing the identity
of the Zodiac or some other clue that could prove
the solution to the case. So again, we're discussing post
office boxes again. Tom Voight, founder of the website zodiac
(34:11):
killer dot com, attempted to track down the individual who
had rented the post office box in December nineteen ninety.
The investigation led Voight to a man he dubbed Now.
I don't know if any of this information is true
at all. Sandy Bett says that she was in on
this particular part of the investigation, but Harriet claims that
the actual codes on these keys go to different locations
(34:32):
than what they're saying here about. Tom Voight says the
investigation led Voight to a man he dubbed Sam, and
a list of circumstantial evidence which appeared to implicate the
new suspect. He's either the Zodiac, Voight said, or he's
a perfect example of how easy it is to find
a great Zodiac suspect.
Speaker 4 (34:50):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
After completing his amateur investigation, Voight turned his information over
to authorities, who then conducted a quiet, yet official investigation.
Sam was eventually cleared as suspect. Look at you go, Voight,
You can't even uh yeah, but evidently he can throw
a suspect at him. And I think that this guy
was probably even I don't know if he was dead
at this time, but I know that they were really
(35:13):
trying to steal the deal on somebody who died before
the anthrax letters. It says the authenticity. So and of
course this is being written in two thousand and seven,
so it may have been after nineteen ninety that he
did this investigation into the Oh, it'd have to be
Wait a minute, now, I'm confused. So they find the
letter in two thousand and seven. So at some point
(35:33):
after two thousand and seven is when he conducts this
investigation into those Polstle keys and ends up at this
man's place.
Speaker 4 (35:39):
Okay, let's see.
Speaker 3 (35:43):
The authenticity of the nineteen ninety Christmas card became the
subject of debate. While many who followed the case believed
that the Zodiac was responsible for familiar writing on the
red envelope, others believed that the card was the work
of a forger. The San Francisco Chronicle consulted with a
retired handwriting expert who had once worked on the Zodiac letters.
The expert claimed that he had memorized the killers writing,
(36:04):
and based on his memory, he determined that the card
was a forgery. The person, I don't know how, he
concluded that, I mean, honestly, the person responsible. I know
I know the person responsible card right, and who hoaxes it?
Speaker 6 (36:24):
That?
Speaker 4 (36:24):
Well?
Speaker 3 (36:25):
I mean, the tants are are phenomenal and they're in line.
And why would you, I mean really, why would you.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
Writing an expert?
Speaker 4 (36:36):
No, it does not say who it was.
Speaker 2 (36:38):
I think Truwood, Merrill, Zacumo right.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
That Terrence Pascal would be one of them. Lloyd Cunningham
would be another. Those are three that I know who
worked on the Zodiac case. The person responsible for the
writing on the envelope had traced over the lines in
several places, and according to the expert, the Zodiac never
did so. The expert was apparently unaware that the Zodiac
had traced over the lines of his writing and several communications. Wow,
(37:08):
so they just shut the expert down. The expert makes
a claim that the Zodiac never did this, and now
they're blatantly saying the expert was unaware that the Zodiac
actually had done this the nineteen ninety Christmas card some expert.
The nineteen ninety Christmas card remains a controversial and dubious
addition to the long list of suspected Zodiac correspondence. So
(37:30):
now let's do some comparisons. I lined up the word
editor from one that went to the San Francisco Chronicle
that we know, in fact is the Zodiac's handwriting. Look
at the way this stuff is written, like, oh my gosh,
editor lines up perfect, guys. There's this huge gas D
D and the I and yeah and that's just one word.
(37:51):
I decided to line up this week just to be
able to show you guys something in lieu of the handwriting,
because I did complete this Christmas card as a product
of the overall handwriting examination that we did way back when. However,
I still when we come to these communications for the
first time chronologically, I want to remind people how close
of a match it is to what we are looking
(38:11):
at and what we've seen throughout all these crimes.
Speaker 4 (38:13):
Freeze.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Now, this information on these particular keys is interesting, and
I don't know that if that's a pen light like
a flashlight attached to this keychain. It looks like it
has a little something up here that might be a
button that you would push. It's long and tubular, and
it's on a chain with these two keys, the postal
(38:38):
cold codelight. Yeah right, it's kind of what it looks like.
Here are I believe the numbers that are made out
that are actually scribed into these postal keys. One is
seven nine four zero eight. Usps do not duplicate, and
then the other is usps do not duplicate five eight
eight five one. Now, Harriet's research of these particular numbers
(39:03):
indicated that one of these went to Princeton, New Jersey. Huh,
that's interesting because the Scorpion author, writing to John Walsh
says he just moved into New Jersey and add twenty
three victims. Okay, but it's memory.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
I'll get to that.
Speaker 3 (39:23):
The other one evidently is an international box. And my
contention there is that we saw the fake anthrax letters
come out of Thailand and Malaysia, which we're supposed to mimic.
The fact that whoever sent the anthrax letters in the
United States has now left the country and we should
be looking for him out of the country. To me,
(39:45):
it was just a ploy to point you in the
wrong direction. But interesting to note that that is an
international post office box key. And from what the chronicle says,
and I don't know again, you know, did they make
this whole story up that these keys went back to
a post office box to a man named Sam.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
Either way, he was cleared all right.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Nineteen ninety one, this is where we actually see Jack
back in Texas again, and he is writing a eulogy
for his brother Chuck. Oh, actually, Dawn the youngest is
writing a eulogy for their brother Chuck. And in Dennis's book,
he writes, nineteen ninety one Jack retires and mom, Jack
and Charles moved out of their duplex. So here we
(40:30):
have him. I thought he actually worked for HP till
nineteen ninety three, but Dennis is saying that he retired
in nineteen ninety one, So that makes all these trips
in the nineties back to Texas extremely possible, says Mom,
Jack and Charles moved out of their duplex that they
had lived in for nine years and moved into a
motor home. Charles was able to complete his elementary years
(40:52):
without having to change schools because they moved their motor
home and lived on.
Speaker 4 (40:55):
The side of our house for about six months.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
Then they moved to and he lists off off Washington, Arizona,
and Texas all the way through up until about nineteen
ninety eight, in which case I believe he's going to
indicate that he has come back, but I'm not going
to take us that far in the chronological order right yet.
By nineteen ninety one, Jack moved to Texas, which coincides
with Kaufman's and Deuherst's respective books, which indicates that he
(41:20):
retired from Pinkerton or Hewlett Packard in nineteen ninety one
at the age of sixty three. February eleventh of nineteen
ninety one, Jack has a copy of a eulogy that
Don Terrence wrote for their brother Chuck Charles Arthur Terrence
Chuck served six years in the Air Force, which would
be consistent with Jack's entering the military and Air Force
in nineteen fifty four, when he appeared in Michigan and
(41:40):
ran off with truck to San Francisco, leaving Chuck's wife
and baby, I think in Arkansas. I'm a little curious
about this eulogy, though, because it's actually stating that Chuck
died at the age of thirty nine in nineteen ninety one,
and we know that's not true because based on Jack's
own pictures, we see that Charles Arthur is born in
nineteen thirty five. He is literally I think I've calculated
(42:03):
that out fifty six in nineteen ninety one. Who would
make such a mistake on their own brothers age? That
confused me a little bet.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Jack Benny say it's thirty nine. Who Jack Benny the comedian?
Speaker 4 (42:21):
Uh huh?
Speaker 2 (42:23):
Every time you had a birthday nine?
Speaker 4 (42:27):
Maybe it was a joke and presented properly printed.
Speaker 3 (42:33):
Yeah, all right. So in this particular FOYA file, if
from the FBI archives, it's realized by the FBI law
enforcement that their number one suspect, Arthur Lee Allen's fingerprints
were never compared to the Layton prints collected in the
Zodiac Killers crime scenes. I find this hilarious. You guys
(42:54):
are nailing and pegging this guy as the number one
suspect and you haven't even looked at his fingerprints and
his phone print vents. So evidently they were sent. They
procured the prince, and they did the testing. The million
dollar question that I like to ask if Allan was cleared,
So this FOYA file says that he was basically.
Speaker 4 (43:12):
Clear that they are not a match.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
If Allan was cleared on three twenty two of ninety one,
is not matching any of the thirty seven latent prints
on file in these crimes. Why did Robert gray Smith
continue to name him in his sequels Zodiac un Massed
in nineteen ninety six, And why did Harry Phillips of
twenty twenty include Alan in the DNA testing that they
failed to do on Jack. This story told by Dennis
(43:34):
and myself in two thousand. It's either two thousand and
nine or twenty ten. I think it was about the
time we were about to do Aphrodite Jones. I spoke
with Harry Phillips of twenty on twenty. He had indicated
that they had done this DNA testing on I believe
eight people, and I asked, why didn't you do Jacks.
Why was Jack's DNA not included in this run? And
(43:56):
he said, because we knew the other eight people weren't
the zodiac. Guess what, Arthur Lee Allen was one of
those people that were tested and were cleared. Yet they
go on in the two thousand and seven movie and
make it out once again that Arthur Lee Allen is
the actual suspect. I mean, these people just will not
let this bone go, or they think we're going to
(44:16):
and we're not going to continue, you know, ammering down
that you are lying about Arthur Lee Allen to distract
from the truth.
Speaker 4 (44:25):
Anybody have anything to add on that.
Speaker 2 (44:28):
No. Same with the net Netflix. It focuses mainly on
Elan more about Alan's about Zodia exactly. It was really
close to that's what that well doctor about.
Speaker 6 (44:45):
So that's well I was going to say, I was
going to just ask.
Speaker 5 (44:48):
That that's just part of the reputation, part of them
trying to the mind control where it goes that all
the way back to nk Ultra, where that's literally what
they use as as a still to repeat, repeat, repeat.
Speaker 6 (45:02):
Things and make it make people.
Speaker 5 (45:04):
Believe, oh, we're gonna and it always makes their brain
go oh like a light bulb.
Speaker 6 (45:10):
Arthur Lee Allen, and that's why he she's being brought.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Up right right, And that's what media and that's what
TV is good for, is mind control, letting us allowing
us to believe the small amounts of information that they
want before they hit us with a big deal or
vice versa, disinformation in whole. So the next FBI foy
A file I find absolutely floored me. It was the
(45:35):
last one in the foil in the Foyat archives for
the FBI and it is dated four twenty four of
nineteen ninety one. So now we have Arthur Lee Allen
who's been cleared in March twenty ninth of ninety and
ninety one, and April twenty fourth of ninety one, a
month later, the FBI is pulling out of the investigation.
Why would the Sacramento FBI discontinue their investigation into this
(45:59):
maniac when clear his operating across state lines, children are involved,
and it seems to be something that is right up
their alley or at least in their jurisdiction. That's when
I plopped in here, Epstein being filthy rich, because that's
telling me that this person is going to continue to
get away with it because the powers that be are
making sure that he does. That was my second million
(46:20):
dollar question in regards to this. Why did the FBI
shut down their investigation? This is still an extortion case
and an extortion of many newspapers and many individuals at
this particular time. In August of August eighth of nineteen
ninety one, we find Jane Doe number three in the
(46:40):
killing fields, which I believe has been identified League City
with Phi Miller and Jane Doe number two were found
again both the Jing do I know two of the
Jane does so. This one says there's a third Jane Doe.
I'm not sure if that one has been identified yet.
I'll have to go back and look at that. That
actually brings us to the communication. And I believe this
(47:02):
one comes out of the Walsh files, correct, Lindsay, Yes,
this is a It's sent to Charlie Reese of the
Sentinel Star. I think that we've talked about the Sentinel Star.
Speaker 6 (47:15):
Oh, yeah, we have. The major one is in Florida.
Where he's from. Well, well, well i'll say where he's from.
He's from He's from New York actually, but he resided
in Florida most of his life.
Speaker 3 (47:28):
And I believe either a fake or a real anthrax
letter was also mailed to the Star. Well, we're going
to be coming up on that soon, but I'm pretty
sure that the Sentinel Star or the Star is one
of the entities that received one of the anthrax letters.
So this was sent to Harriet, I guess from Megan Walsh.
(47:52):
I see Megan's name on the side here, and it
was December eighth of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 4 (47:57):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (47:57):
She just posted it online and that's where Harriet got
it from, or if she was communicating with Megan Walsh
and received this letter.
Speaker 4 (48:05):
So it was I think I seen it.
Speaker 6 (48:07):
I think that was before she met Harriet, and Harriet
has saw it and contacted her about what. You know,
She's been researching already, and I think.
Speaker 3 (48:18):
Harriet believes that it was mailed in nineteen eighty four.
So I'm going to have to put that back in
chronological order with nineteen eighty four in the Happenings of
Adam Walsh, because this letter is definitely in regards to him.
I did a little bit of map questing when I
was looking at it, because I was a little bit
shocked to hear that this was Hollywood, Florida. I guess
I never really tuned into that when I looked at it.
(48:41):
On the map, Hollywood, Florida is right in between Donya
Beach and Fort Lauderdale, and we have a picture of
Jack and Fort Lauderdale which looks like it is circa
the couples killing in Donia Beach back in nineteen forty six,
and I think that was too let law enforcement know
they didn't have the right person in jail for the
(49:03):
texar Cana phantom murders.
Speaker 4 (49:05):
So we have these.
Speaker 3 (49:06):
Couples that are murdered in or a set of couples
in Dania Donia Beach that were murdered, and it's very
close to the Hollywood area and also very close to
Fort Lauderdale. All of these were about fourteen to seventeen
minutes apart. So this letter says, I met this guy
in Ocala Barr who said he knew someone that would
(49:28):
pay ten grand for a young boy. This guy had
lost his kid and his wife was going nuts. We
took the deal. He paid cash.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
I went to It.
Speaker 3 (49:40):
Looks like he's going to start to say Chicago, but
that words cut off, so I don't have all of
this message. I went to Chicago. Let's say my friend
stayed put, so indicating that he stayed in the Florida area.
I get back and find this kid was killed. I
know his name was Adam and he was from the Islands.
(50:01):
We got him in Hollywood. I don't know this man's name,
he don't know mine. He is a big beard and
don't wear any shoes on his feet. He is crazy,
as I'm gonna guess, hell is what this?
Speaker 2 (50:15):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (50:15):
So this is the one that as sent you in
an email a couple of days ago that I have
found again, and and and then there's more correspondence added
to it so you can see the full thing in
your email if if you want to, just bring it
back up later.
Speaker 3 (50:32):
Yeah, you know what, And this this episode has been
so Christine. We're out of time, and I'm going to
follow up with all those emails and the information you
sent me. Lindsay, everybody, have a wonderful weekend. Thank you
both for being here.
Speaker 4 (50:44):
We'll see you next Friday. Well, one thing, we're done, guys.
Speaker 3 (50:50):
We got to cut it off one minutes, all right,
We'll see y'all next week.
Speaker 6 (51:03):
To sh
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