April 18, 2025 • 48 mins
Comparing the Sandy Betts murder map to various authors such as Richard Gaikowski, Robert Hernandez (Betts Suspect), other communications Sandy Betts has received, and even Sandy Betts herself. While Dennis believed Jack went to work for HP in 1983, we don’t see evidence of this job until April 1984. Murders in Texas are still very active such as Corvette Concepts Mystery and Eqquisearch founder Tim Miller’s daughter.
Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/hit-the-road-jack-finding-the-zodiac--5297837/support.
Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/hit-the-road-jack-finding-the-zodiac--5297837/support.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You should seek the services.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Good Morning, True Seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
I'd like to welcome to the today, Harriet Suchet.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Good morning and morning one week as they call it. Yay,
I'm all happy.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Home. We're so excited.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah that's true. Yeah, home for at least home for Easter.
I'm going to go get some cha.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Canby six months? Six months you've been basically hospitalized.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yeah, four months and I'm still healing. But at least
I'm healing the rest of the way in a home sitting.
So they were because I was getting up and walking
around and still complaining about the food, and they couldn't know.
I think she's I think she's pretty much good to
go because we're expecting. Yeah, let's send her home, and
(01:50):
you know what, I'm just going to be really brief
what happened to me, which is including a cerebral human alma.
It really enhanced my sense of smell and I could
smell everything, and it ended up in the freaking food
and I couldn't plus the medicines I was taking. I
(02:12):
wash forty pounds.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Nice say it.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah, it's not the way you want to lose it.
They said, no, you need, you need some weight back
so you can heal more. But and I would, and
I only said it once and then stopped serving the
shitty food. Anyways, So I'm home.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
I think that's a topic for a whole other podcast.
But Western medicine and their food is absolutely horrible.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
But yeah, I was making my own peanut butter sandwiches
and they said, you know, she's making her own stuff
to eat again, she's ready, okay, and take her yourself
at home, you.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Know, congratulations, I mean, okay, got to be nice to
enjoy it. Well, you were only in your place a
couple of weeks right before this accident happened exactly.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
And then yeah, I decorated for Christmas, so I came
home to pros Christmas.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
That's going to kind of make you smile little Oh.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I love Christmas?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Right?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
My family said, well, I said, you missed your birthday
and other family member's birthday, miss Christmas, and now you're
there pre Easter, celebrate all those sort things. I was.
I said, that's good to me. I'm getting candy because
they didn't serve candy episode at at least, I was,
I haven't got candy in four months?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Really, right, Oh my goodness. Well, last week we left
off on what we refer to as the Sandy Bets
murder map, and I know, well, I'm not sure how
many people were with us for the episodes that I
ran with Sandy Bets. She believes she was being stalked
by the group or the individual Zodiac killer himself. She
(03:59):
had many pieces of evidence to put forward, and some
she knew where it came from, some she didn't know
where it came from. And she also provided me with
a couple of different prospects that she thought were possible
suspects for having written some of these items. So I
thought I was going to take a look at this
handwriting finally, which is something I promised to do way
(04:21):
back then. I hadn't had the time to do it.
But I have now compared this handwriting to her couple
of suspects, one of the suspects that Tom Voight has,
and then I ended up actually comparing the handwriting itself
to Sandy Betts and things got extremely interesting. So when
(04:42):
we look at this map right now, we can see
on the outset what might appear to be a whole
bunch of Zodiac symbols. But I'm going to comment on
those because these symbols are not like what the Zodiac wrote,
because the actual lines never exceed the outside circumference of
the circle. In some cases there's a slight overhang, but
for the most part, the criss cross is all inside
(05:05):
the circle, and that is just not typically what we
saw the Zodiac actually executing. Another thing that kind of
caught me off guard is we had multiple capital letters
in the middle of lowercase printing. Now, I know that
the Zodiac would typically write or attempt to write, all
in lowercase print, but there was an occasional capital N
that looked like a W structure in his writing where
(05:27):
you could see that he was either manic or on drugs,
or he had something going on. So he was accidentally
dropping these W shaped capital letter ns in the middle
of lower case printing, and I found a few of
those in the zodiac communications, but we didn't really other
than the K in speaking, did we see any other
(05:49):
large capital letters or what we call pop out letters
in graphology on this particular map, though, I took note
to many pop up letters. So we had capital a's,
capital n's, capital r's, capital f's, capital l's was a K. Yeah, yeah,
I would I would say they're pop up k's, larger
k's than the lower case printing as well, so there
(06:11):
was very There was a lot of these pop up letters,
and we can see them like in the word pleasant.
In here we see this great, big, huge capital L.
I want to say. Up in Vacaville again we have
these capital l's. Fairfield is one word, but we see
this capital F in the middle. Let's see San Rafel,
where did I see you? Up Here again, we have
(06:31):
a capital F in the middle of lowercase. Well, two
capital a's around the capital F. But then we have
a lowercase E and then we have that pop up
capital letter L again. So all of this being that
interesting to me, I wanted to see how this fared
out with some of the suspects. So I did do
a comparison with Bob Hernandez as a handwriting or Robert Hernandez,
(06:52):
which I believe that this is the main suspect that
Sandy Betts believes is either a the Zodiac Killer part
of the group, or her stalker. I'm not really sure
because I get myself confused. She's got a couple of
different things going on. But when I did the comparison here,
I looked at these letter a's and they're just simply
they're very tall, very pointy cross very low on the crossbar,
(07:17):
and it's pretty consistent. When he writes in his lowercase
handwriting with proper capitalization. We don't see any capital a's,
capital ens, capital a, yeah, a's or ends. Let's see
no capital rs. So let me see if I find
any k's around here for him. I don't believe I did,
(07:37):
but we can see here that when he prints, he
prints with proper capitalization and lowercase letters, so that kind
of rules him out. When he prints in capital letters,
all of those capital letters, each each letter is capitalized.
So as he wrote, Hernandez, coud you can know some
(07:58):
type of a self defense school. He wrote all of
this in capital letters, so he either writes in all
caps when he writes, or he's using proper capitalization in
lowercase print. So then when we looked at actual the
form and style of the actual letters, again we didn't
find any consistencies in the letter rs or the letter ns.
(08:18):
The letter a's were obviously very different. Most most everything
that I saw in here just I got no warm
and fuzzy off this guy whatsoever. There was nothing that
made me think that this guy actively wrote this map,
which then brings us to more Sorry, I have more
handwriting from Bob Hernandez, and again we are looking at
(08:39):
his writing here. Again he is writing in proper capitalization
form with lowercase letters, and we do not see any
pop up capital letters in this writing. And again the
form across the board is not consistent with what we
see going on. In fact, we had the Imperial dragons
written up here and we've got this letter D. We
(09:00):
can see how that varies from the letter d's that
are in here in Mount Diablo and Danville. Again, just
nothing there that hit home for me that said, oh,
we've got something that's alike his capital f's as he
wrote in February. He tends to cross all the way
through that stem instead of just coming off the right
hand side of it, and we can see that that's
(09:21):
not what's happening with the letter FS in this actual
murder map. Now that brings us to Gaikowski, which is
one of Tom Void's suspects. But I think that sometimes
Sandy Betts believes that there's a possibility he could also
be the zodiac. So I had thrown some of his
writing in here to just kind of take a look
(09:42):
at it once again. We had some of the same characteristics.
We have complete capitalization, proper capitalization with lowercase printing. We
do not have any pop up letters that are not
specific to the actual writing that's going on. Again, we
have the f's that are crossed through the stem, just
(10:03):
like we saw in Bob Hernandez's handwriting, only Gaikowski tends
to have a little bit more flair to it, so
you can actually see the stem protruding from the top
of the F. And Darlene farrin we can see the
middle crossbar crosses from left to right in an inclined fashion,
so does the top crossbar, and in San Francisco pretty
(10:24):
much the same thing. We can see both the crossbar
at the top and the crossbar in the center that
is criss crossing all the way through from left to
right of that stem. So when I did any comparison
on actual letter formations, again I did not see a
lot going on here. I did see in let's see
in the word fairfield, the attempt to use this bell
(10:46):
top a that looks extremely rudimentary. It does not really
look like anything that we saw the zodiac do. We
do see that Gaikowski does have that bell top a
at least one in San Francisco, But again it's not
even the same shape or style or form as the
beltop a's that we're finding over here. So occasionally when
(11:06):
I look through these words, we'll see these belltop a's,
almost as if the person is just attempting to mimic
or put them in while the rest of them they
just didn't pay attention to the fact that they were
using all capital a's.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Can I say something absolutely ever, you brought up of
Kyleski once once Tom Boyd said it's the zooniac because
of he was That's when he started getting lapped off
the internet. You're you're you're bringing back some some funny,
(11:42):
fond memories of saying, yeah, finally, people are just laughing
at Tom Boyd.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
You know, yeah, a huge reach. I mean, when you
see the picture of Gaikowski, you know that once again
he's just not even a a similar match. He's just
not even a match at all between the composite from
the presidio. So again, once I cross reference this particular handwriting,
and of course this is a little bit more cursive,
(12:13):
so it's a little harder to actually make some comparative values.
But we do have other letters in there that we
can use and make cross references too, So things like
the capitol letter S, which is a standout print, and
the word San Francisco, the word killing. It looks like
he wrote, rich I have killed a dozen people. And
(12:36):
of course this is a sample of Richard Gayskowski's handwriting
that was apparently obtained by authorities during the investigation regarding
the complaints by Darlene Farren's sister Pam. So we have
someone else who is evidently complaining about Gaikowski. I'm not
sure it says. This sample contains the numbers one, eight,
seven and letters t R. During her appearance on the
Sally Jesse Rafael Show. So Pam's sister must have been
(12:59):
on a show, how she must be must have called
him out or somebody would have fettered that information to
even look towards Getowski. I'm not sure how she got
involved with blaming him, do youal Harriet?
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I know he was definitely being even though it's horrible
locause there are real people killed. They were just laughing
about Richard Geikowski being it. If you got somebody who's
supposed to be Darling fair AND's sister saying, is not it?
You know? It just Tom Boyd Apparently it says here.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
It says here that his handwriting apparently was obtained by
authorities during the investigation regarding the complaints by Darling fair
and sister Pam. So Pam had to have complained about him,
and then they attained his handwriting sample, and by the
looks of it, they didn't find that anything matched, or
we'd have seen him him.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
The found nothing nothing. I think I remember something about
it Belly Jester about the El show.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
But yeah, that's pretty much what I found was nothing.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Well, well, Tom White was grasping as straw as trying
to find a suspect to keep his Zodiac Killer dot
Com alive because at that time that Arthur Lee Allen
the prime suspect. The DNA didn't match, the handwriting never
matched a lot it didn't match, and so he's just
(14:22):
you know, he's he's the snake oil salesman of the
Zodiac world, trying to keep suspects alive, to keep his
sight going, because.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I think that's what he called me.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, yeah, salesman.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
It was him or Chris Yarborough. There's been so many
trolls throughout that I've even forgotten about some of them.
But I think Chris Yarborough was the one that said
I was smoking and snake oil salesperson.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I could probably sell him on a stick.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
But he's the only one that apologized, at least somebody
who's in that name to Dennis for what they put
him through. You know, upon Dennis's death, I fought on Facebook,
so you know, we said that was nice. But you know, otherwise, yeah,
we've been through it through because of those Yes we have.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
So there's been along what sixteen years that I have
been involved in this, and I think you were involved
a little bit longer than I was, so.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
A lot longer, and I was quiet for during a
lot of the two thousands, but I kept on lurking
because you know, and I've I still at the time
and during the two thousands was backing Kenny Kilgore quietly,
because yeah, every time you supported Kenny Kilgore on tom
Boys or any of the sites, you got the crap
(15:40):
beat out of you and you were suspended for a
couple of days. I've been keep saying that the FI
he had proofed it they were backing his stepfather as
a sad Yeah, he kept on posting it, and that
would be me too.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Now Kenny Kilgore turned out to be Dennis Kaufman though
correct incognito.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Yeah, and so I was like, when I finally found
this sight, I says, oh my god, I think I
found the right person to support him back. I didn't
want to just have a suspect and throw out the name.
I wanted to really solve it.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah. I sat back for a while incognito as well
on his message board, just to kind of get information
from individuals before they figured out who I was. And
then of course once they figured out who I was,
then oof the onslaught was on. I think even at
one point in time, I had moderated Dennis's message board
for him, kicking off all of the trolls and getting
rid of the people who were just basically there to,
(16:36):
you know, cause drama in the middle of real information
that people was seeking.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
So another one of whom was probably hundreds you've.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Blocked, Probably I went to town. If you were a jerk,
you were out of there.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Well.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
And I think that a lot of these trolls that
were on the Internet were signing up for multiple accounts,
so sometimes I could literally read the messages that they
were giving and see that that was literally okay, this
is the same person under a different name. Of course,
again incognito. Nobody wants to be out there with their
name on anything because if they're going to be jackwagons,
(17:14):
they don't want to be it to be known that
it's them that's doing it, which was not something that
I appreciated at all. If you're going to come at us,
come at us for real, and come at us as
the person you are, not as some covered up individual
which can't be found or asked. To stand up and
raise your hand and say that you believe the things
(17:35):
that you believe.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
You block like one isp that would be like you know,
ten or twenty bops as they call them now, so
you know, selling, Yeah, one ISP and then we'll clean
up the whole board for a while.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yes it did, Yes it did. We were able to
actually go in there and plot out that information. Nobody
wants to read through all the garbage just to sift
through thirty forty different bad messages just to get a
little piece of some type of evidence. We wanted the
evidence to be straightforward and clear and discussed and something
that people could follow easily without all the drama and
(18:13):
the nastiness in between. Well enough on that. I do
have some I do. I do have some other handwriting.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
From I just wanted to say something really quick quick.
Now when I'm seeing stuff that's been going on for
maybe a couple of centuries and it's still continuing, we
still have the same sort of types of people who
just don't want the truth out there.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
You mean decades or I guess you are.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Because the stuff I'm doing right now it is going
back a couple of.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Ye, but we're not we're not covering that though. So basically,
Richard MCKOWSI had another piece of information out there, which
was a request for a passport, in which case his
handwriting was found on When we look at this handwriting,
we can once again look across and see that there's
just no comparative value between the actual letter forms and
(19:06):
structures size shape. Again, he's using proper capitalization with lowercase printing,
no pop up letters. Even his cas tend to look
more like a lowercase K, although Dakota looks a little
bit bigger here. When we look at Gaikowski up here,
just definitely formed as a lowercase K. And then again
(19:28):
cross comparing that to the information on the map, there
was just really nothing that was kind of given me
a warm and fuzzy again, even with this particular handwriting.
So I've looked at different handwritings over different time frames.
I want to say this one was in the nineties
or something like that for the passport, and then the
other one was at some point in time during the
actual investigation of the Zodiac Killer way back when. That
(19:54):
brings us actually to the commonalities that I found in
some of the community cations that Sandy Betts had indicated
she had received. So she stated she received a message
that says, why am I afraid to tell you who
I am. She also received another message she believed from
somebody who stated that they were some type of a
(20:18):
oh gosh astrologist basically giving her astrology reading. So it's
a secretive, mysterious, extremely brilliant. You are active, hardworking and aggressive.
You're sensitive to the needs of others. You are a
quiet fighter. You are a slow starter, but once you
get going, look out. When I cross compared these three communications,
(20:39):
which included the actual murder map from Sandy Betts, I
did find some consistencies between the one that she claimed
came from an individual who was giving her an astrology reading.
We see these backwards whys. We see these backwards why.
Also in the why am I afraid to tell you
who I am? Now? In the word why, we see
(20:59):
the the why is actually created correctly. So this persona
of doing this backwards why is obviously somebody manipulating their handwriting.
I don't know why that this was even a thing,
because you're not going to find backwards whys in the
Zodix handwriting. But she believed that these messages look like
the Zodix handwriting. And again it was either a note
(21:22):
pass to someone or note pass to a coworker that
was given to her. She doesn't know where the murder
map came from. But let's talk about these consistencies real quick.
So aside from a backwards why between these two messages,
it looks to me that this particular this is a
persona somebody is trying to play and put on. And
then as I go through the messages, we start to
find the capital a's, the capital f's, the capital l's,
(21:47):
all in the middle of lowercase printing, while the astrology
reading tends to be more strict lowercase print with proper capitalization.
We do see in the word look out capital L.
But that was really the only capital that I saw
that was out of place in here. When I did
(22:08):
the cross comparison between the actual murder map itself and
these particular ones, we found the capital a's, we found
the capital rs. We found let's see capital n's, capital l's.
So again we're finding now these cross references between these three,
(22:29):
these two communications so basically different. Significant characteristics between these
three kind of tied them all together and suggests that
they were written by one person. In the word valeo,
we've got double capital l's there. So now down here
when we're looking at this handwriting at the bottom. This
is actually Sandy Bett's handwriting, and I about fell out
of my chair because I did not know how it
(22:51):
was going to play out, even though I had saw
some things in early on, like these capital letter fs
that write right here in the word different, very very
consistent with the capital letter s that are found in
this message up here that says, why am I afraid
to tell you who I am? And I mean so
so stinking similar that even the way they're formed, the
(23:12):
way that the top crossbar comes back below the actual
top of the stem kind of almost in a V
shape or a K like formation on that F is
very consistent with what we see in her handwriting. We
also find in her handwriting capital l's, capital RS, capital
n's capital Let's see here l R, N, R, L, f's,
(23:39):
and f's are really a big one for me here, folks,
because capital fs are not something that I've seen in
the middle of lowercase printing. I've seen a's, I've seen rs,
I've seen d's, I've seen n's, i've seen m's. Capital
F in the middle of lowercase printing is completely almost
like a solid identifier for somebody. If I saw this
(24:00):
in a writing, and I was being asked to determine
whether or not somebody had executed a document and found
these s in there. I would this might be enough
to sell me all by itself, just because of how unique.
It is. So aside from that, we also look at
the word valao. Now, this is the word valao on
the map, and this is the word valao in Sandy's handwriting.
(24:20):
And I took a note to the actual baseline of
the letters. So the V starts out at one position,
the A hops up, the l's hop up, the E
hops up, the J hops up. And when we looked
over here at the valeo that was actually written on
the murder map, we've got a V that's lower, the
A that hops up, the l's that hop up, and
we have a straight tail J, which is exactly what
(24:41):
we see in her handwriting as well. The l's were
all consistent. The ends actually, I mean, even when you
look at the formation and the shape of the letter,
ends in Danville and San Ramon are consistent with her
letter ends. Now, another thing that kind of drew it
all back together for me was that Sandy uses a
three hump M and it's cursive in nature. Written in
(25:03):
the middle of printed writing. There's another huge key identifier,
because not many people do this, let alone even do
three humps in cursive writing. So when I looked back
and saw the why am I afraid to tell you
who I am? Lo and behold, we have three hump
cursive written ms in the middle of that message. So
(25:24):
now I am extremely like, if not upset, that I
have wasted any time in this particular notion that she
is being threatened by somebody they How is it that
they can write like her? How is it that they
form letters like her, use the same type of capital letters.
They're just not Nobody's sitting around working on trying to
mimic Sandy Bett's handwriting in order to make it look
(25:47):
like she wrote this while threatening her. Doesn't make any
sense in my brain. So we've got some things to
look at there. I think I have some more on
the writing. Oh yes, we discussed the formation of the
actual zodiac sign sign itself, and we can see here
that this the crossbars of the zodiac symbol does not
go through the actual circle and Lo and behold, that
(26:08):
is exactly how Darling fair or Darling shoot Sandy Betts
does it. As well, so again there was another home
run hit on the formation. We can see this is
something she claims that somebody had left, I think for
one of her coworkers, or he had claimed he was
trying to help her in her zodiac pursuit. And when
(26:30):
I got into here, of course I did see some
other things that were consistent with the previous letters that
we just looked at. Let me see if I worked
up any Oh, yes, I did work up on that one.
So some of the things that I was seeing was
this uptick that happens at the bottom left hand side
of the stems of things like t's and h's. You
can see it happening over and over again inside of here.
(26:54):
And one of the things that we saw in the
murder map itself was again this leftward tick that happens
at the bottom of the tees and then this crisscross
star shaped tea where it's basically done in one clean
fluid movement, which is to draw from the top of
the stem downward, exit off to the left, but not
pick up the pen, and then cross to the right
(27:14):
with the crossbar on the tee. And that happened in Sacramento.
It happened in Sana Rosa. And then of course when
we got into Sandy's handwriting, we found it everywhere, this
crisscross tee that is shaped like a star basically, and
you can find it in much of her handwriting. So
I think that that's a clue, pushing it back into
that notion that there is a possibility that she was
(27:37):
creating these she was attempting to make them look like
they were Zodiac written, even though I find that there
are lots of differences and reasons to believe that they
are not. Either way, that's too close to home for me,
for somebody to complain to be to having been terrorized
by people, or you know, somebody stalking her with this information,
(28:00):
when in reality there's just so many commonalities with their
own handwriting that we have to question whether or not
that she has been honest with us. Here's another cross
reference of that same Robert gray Smith note and document,
in which case I pulled apart even more items that
are linked by virtue of those backwards wise, the capital l's,
(28:26):
the actual word the and the shape of the hs
are very consistent with her handwriting as well. It just
goes on and on, and sometimes when you have the
right suspect for handwriting. You could continue making those matches
all day long. I felt that this was significant enough
for me to kind of drop this notion that this
came from the zodiac. Number one, because it's not a
(28:47):
match to his handwriting. And number two, it does not
match any of the suspects she claims to have been
involved with her being terrorized. And number three, there are
so many consistencies with her handwriting that I'm pretty much
going to eighty six this notion altogether.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
What do you think, Harriet, Oh, I sure would love
to hear explanation on all of this, but you know, yeah,
so some of the things. I think you would say
that some of the stuff on her maps are matching,
but you know, this is this We need to hear
some explanations as to why this is happening.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Well, and I had with the last couple of weeks
to come back on the show. Like I said, she's
now adopted the thought process of some new suspect out
there that might possibly have some bearing on what it
is that she's doing and looking at, and she felt
compelled to deal with them before actually coming on the show.
So this is going to play out the way it
plays out without her because I offered her to come in.
(29:47):
I don't know how she would have handled this kind
of information she may have gotten mad, I don't know.
I did actually have one worse slide where I looked
at the letter P as it pertains to the Robert
Graysmith that she supposedly got, and the ps have these
little flags that are sticking up to the top left
hand side here, and even the shapes of the bulls
(30:09):
are similar. They don't close back to the actual stem,
but we see that in her peas in her own
writing once again have that flag that sticks out just
kind of curved off to the left just a little bit.
But again, just another consistency too much for me anyways,
all right, I'm done with my rant and I did
(30:29):
finally get that handwriting done for everybody. Robert Hernandez is
not a match. Richard Gaikowski is not a match. And unfortunately,
there are far too many commonalities with Sandy Bett's handwriting
for me to dismiss that this was somebody else actively
trying to terrorize her, and that it is likely she
is the one that actually constructed and created that map
(30:50):
and possibly the other letters as well. So that brings
us back to the murderers. And I think we actually
had started to talk about these ones. Last time. We
had a Heidi Villa Real five, which you had commented
on believing it was Abel Robert Abel, and.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
I have my books that I can look at here.
But but anyways, so yeah, I had a hard time
pronouncing her name too, but as I went along, so
my god, she's another victim of Robert Abel who couldn't
get help and even a minute over the years, you
know to other people that he kind of needed help
(31:32):
for some things. And you know, of course he didn't
tell all his friends, well I'm a killer, we're to
your children. But you know, so you.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Believe he was. You believe he was back and forth
between California and Texas. Committee murders.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Yeah, I have them linked to Gidley, Patricia Gidley, and
I had to look into that one. I said, how
could he be linked there? The wedding that she was
going to had to deal with Bracewell, very famous NASA person,
the Bracewell Observatory at Stanford, and apparently he went to
(32:14):
that wedding and they had some kind of date. But
I guess she reminded him of Janis Joplin. But she,
Patricia Gidley, was extremely smart, really intelligent. She was involved
with West Coast NORAD, so she did imaging and things
(32:35):
like that. I mean, it's really a twenty three years
old in the mind of a fifty year old scientist
said that she was killed. But yeah, but maybe that
was also it. She had a mind like a scientist,
and you know, he didn't want to deal with that.
I don't know things would trigger him.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
But yeah, I think I think she They articulated she
went missing or to first of nineteen eighty three. Were
you able to lock that in as far as the
wedding date was concerned.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
I believe so. And hold on a second, Well, yeah,
so she went missing, and I think she I think
there was another witness that few would happened, and that's
a future event where somebody else went missing in that
same area in nineteen eighty four. So it was that
(33:27):
convenience store location.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Well, it did say that she went to use the
payphone at League City convenience store and that's where she
was abducted from. So she didn't quite make it to California,
is what I'm getting.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Oh, no, she didn't make it to California, but Rubert
Abel was pretty active.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
A myth, so it says that she was beaten to
death with a club in broken bones found in the
killing fields where Miller and two Jane Doe's were found.
So obviously with those, suspect is returning to bury bodies
where others have been buried. I know that Jack has
just requested a divorce on October twentieth of nineteen eighty three. However,
this predates she went missing. Obviously, they say October first,
(34:13):
that predates it. It doesn't mean that Jack isn't there,
because again he is just now coming off and the
rest he is having to get his affairs in order
before he turns himself in, and he does, I believe
thirty days in jail. So Jack always returns home, guys,
every single time, whenever anything is going on while he's
waiting to enter the military. I'd say a few times
(34:34):
a year, probably mostly holidays. He returned home to Mom,
but he was back and forth to Texas on a
constant basis. On October third of nineteen eighty three, it
says you got my first It's a letter postmarked Kalamazoo Michigan.
I know that we put in here to research this.
Now that you're at home, maybe we can start looking
up this particular letter and see if there's any instances
(34:55):
or versions of it out there.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Let me look at that, right. I was driving me
crazy the last couple of days, I said, I was
trying to play. So anyways, ye, I send it whatever.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Oh I don't have it. I just it's in the
FOYA files. It's listed as a letter that was examination. Okay, okay,
I'll send that out to you. On our chamber. Twenty six,
six days after Jack requests divorce, we have Sondra or
Sandra Rambler in Santa Fe, Texas, goes missing. She was
abducted on her way to the store. So a lot
(35:28):
of these convenience stores, little stores. I mean, if we
go all the way back to Sherry Joe Bates, he
mentions taking the suspect, mentions taking people from little stores.
So that rolls us right down into November two of
nineteen eighty three on the Corvette concepts murders in Texas.
(35:48):
I believe we did start to talk about this a bit,
because it is actually notated in Tim Miller's letter. We
can see the envelope portion of it over here that
is addressed to Tom Humble. And there's a lot of
things that I found were consistent and intertwined with this,
because there is talk about Humble, Texas in this particular
letter in lieu of superfudge, which is a very interesting
(36:13):
tie in we believe between Anthrax and this letter where
he's taking ultimate I believe he was taking ultimate responsibility
for all of these different crime sprees across the United States. However, Harriet,
you believe that he was telling on people who were
actually doing it. But this one letter does really encompass
(36:35):
everything from the Zodiac Killer, to the phantoms, to the
Corvette Concepts Fiasco mystery, the Zodiac kill. I mean, there's
just so many different references inside this letter. Now, this
one was actually it stated that the return address was
I believe it looks like six or five ninety five
West Main League City, Texas seven seven five seven three,
(36:58):
and it mentions Corvette Concepts Fiasco mystery, and of course
that brings us to the Corvette Concepts murders, where three
individuals were actually murdered, Beth Wilburn, Thomas McGraw and James Oates.
Beth was stabbed one hundred and twenty nine times, and
in addition to being shot, McGraw was shot and stabbed
fifteen times, and a sharpened screwdriver was embedded in his spine.
(37:20):
It does not indicate how James Oates was killed, at
least by this particular information that I have. It does
indicate they've made an arrest at one point in time,
though I don't have the date on it. That must
have fell through, and that person must not have been
able to be charged or convicted of the crime, because
in twenty twenty one we have an article that comes
(37:41):
out saying corvette and cash offered for answers in cold
case murder. So they are still looking for a suspect
in this, and I think that the author of this
letter to Tim Miller in regards to his daughter is
probably the direction they should be looking in. Do you
have anything to add to that on the corvette concepts?
Speaker 3 (37:57):
I think that I think they did get somebody. But
you know, I was looking to see if I had
anything printed about all this, and I think these are
two books that have not been printed yet by me.
So I've done, for some reason, a lot of detail
on what ended up being the Quarbette concepts and the
(38:20):
description of the evidence and stuff. So Jack definitely had
the information about what happened with this, and so the
only thing I can add is that I'll have to
look up what I have and just kind of go
over it again. It's just he's I think that that's
why he was calling it a fiasco, because the detectives there,
(38:45):
even though a lot of them are good and you know,
honest people, there's still people who want to cover up
things in the past that are linked to other people,
that are connected to certain people. And you know, I've
seen the dirtiness of John Edward Walsh Younger, so anything
that seems to be connected to that, because he's supposed
to be a good guy on that show. Anyways, I
(39:07):
can go on and on, but it's that way it
was called. The fiasco is just how they handle it
the evidence, you know, one hundred and eighteen times, you know, uh.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Yeah, yeah, no. And I get that because that's kind
of Zodiac one on one to call them out on
their ineptness. When when he finds that the police is
not appropriately handling things, he likes to actually get a
shout out. So calling it a fiasco would not surprise me.
What does surprise me is that this is a little
bit off the the mo of what we're seeing with
(39:42):
the other females that are happening in Texas. This is,
you know, walking into a place of business. This is
wiping out everybody who happens to be in there. I
don't believe that they mentioned anything in regards to you know,
robbery or anybody taking any money, but this is definitely
overkill and meant to be personal. I mean, if you're
(40:02):
going to leave a sharp and screwdriver embedded in somebody's fine,
and you're not going to take that murder weapon with you,
you're sending a message. You stay, have somebody one hundred
and twenty nine times and shoot them, You're sending a message.
So what were these individuals into? And you have to
think that, you know, somebody owning a Corvette dealership is
probably pretty high up there as far as money is concerned.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
Ye, all right, drugs. I think drugs plays a key
role in that somebody knew something.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Yeah, and that was kind of where my head was going,
But I don't know that to be true. So it
wasn't something I was going to mention. Obviously, we've got
victims here, and we don't want to throw any more
shade on them than they have already. But there's a possibility.
I mean, we've heard Timmeller discuss what he was doing
at the time his daughter was taken. We've heard you
(40:55):
and Lindsay mcbray talk about John Walsh and what he
was in the middle love at the time his son
was taken. There is some type of a commonality that
is coming back to those types of events. So I
do have on here that I believe that that Jack
probably turned himself in after November tewod whereby he is
(41:16):
released on November first for his thirty days. It's also
a contention that Jack would have gone home to Texas,
as I had stated while going through the divorce with Nora.
Even though we are showing an address in real Linda,
we see addresses for Jack all over the place. I mean,
he is still currently holding peel boxes in Texas at
this time. He's holding peel boxes in Oklahoma at this time.
(41:40):
I think he has virtually many addresses that could be
tied to him during this particular period. November fourteenth and
nineteen eighty three, twenty five year old Stanley lang Common
on Highway fifty nine in north Park Drive in Kingwood, Texas.
It says on November thirteenth, nineteen eighty three, at approximately
ten pm, victim Stanley laying Common left his residence on
(42:02):
Ashmur Street in Houston, Texas, telling his girlfriend that he
was restless and was going out. On November fourteenth, nineteen
eighty three, at approximately eight a m. An employee working
on fire hydrant drains found the dead body of common
Line in a partially cleared field off North Park Drive
at Highway fifty nine in Kingwood, Texas. He had been
shot multiple times and his car was missing. Commons vehicle
(42:24):
was subsequently found parked in the thousand block of Webster
Street in Houston. The car had been at that location
since December fifth, nineteen eighty three, at which time a
parking ticket had been issued. And again this goes back
to the cars that go missing. So we've got the
victim that is killed, and we've got the car that
has moved to another location and subsequently found. Now I
(42:45):
show that this is the last unsolved murder for almost
seven months, and we do see that again Jack is
going to go to jail and he is going to
be on probation for quite some time, but Texas is
going to be free, at least as far as my
research is concerned. If there are moarmer out there, then
please send them through. I have looked up on the
website for Texas and Unsolved Killings and it does not
(43:07):
show any other unsolved murders for this time period either.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Well, I know when you mentioned about Webster Street and
the position and how much you know, there was X
amount of shots and I'm just wondering if that person
was a witness to what happened with Joan Webster. That's
how my mind thinks, you know, because there was somebody
who witnessed Joan Webster getting into a vehicle that and
(43:35):
they were and I'm saying Jack, Jack somehow knew all
this information and they were allegedly trying to get her
attention to not go into that vehicle, so, you know,
and that's what I seeing that it does look like
it was Rubbert Abel again and the witness of the
composite fits Robert Able to a t including the beard.
(43:58):
So again, you know, this somebody that they're trying to
lead some information that and that's so I'm seeing this
did they see something with what happened with Joean Webster?
Who you know again, we got NASA, a whole bunch
of things going on there, the International Telephone and Telegraph
Company huge that has something.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Where Joan Webster we've already discussed her. Then she's already
been killed but gets victims.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Yeah, well there was somebody who witnessed her getting into
that car. So you know, Robert Abel, who's usually in Texas,
was back there. So that.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
We have we have seen the use of street names
as it pertains two different victims, such as oh yeah,
and Susan Dagnan on Hollywood Boulevard and Dagnan Boulevard in
those murders. So yeah, you're you're not far behind what
we know to be a typic for these crimes. I
(45:03):
had already read that one. So we're just going to
hop on into Jack's probation. So on December first, nineteen
eighty three, Jack is signing probation documents, but there's no
time frame given for how long. In these particular documents,
Jack is paying his spines for the crimes December one,
nineteen eighty three in Sacramento, California, so he obviously is
no longer in prison at this point, and we start
(45:24):
to see him freely moving around again. They did give
him an orientation that was completed at the probation office
on December second, nineteen eighty three, in Sacramento, California. So
once again we know he is out because he is
now attending probation appointments. That is, on December seventh and
nineteen eighty three, Jack receives the interlocatory judgment for the
(45:46):
divorce from Nora. For now, Jack list his home address
for the divorce as twenty one to thirty five Elkhorn Boulevard,
reel Into, California nine five six seven three. Only in
this particular paperwork and on his probation paper do we
see that listed. I don't know that that necessarily means
that Jack is actively living there, but I am betting
(46:07):
that he probably had to play or pretend he was
living somewhere in the Sacramento area, at least for the
purpose of probation. But that doesn't stop people from going
places where they shouldn't be going and leaving the state
and doing what they want to do, as we've seen
many people actively do even though they were on probation.
(46:27):
I also already read that one and that one, and
that brings us to May twenty second of nineteen eighty four,
the divorce's final from Nora Mary Terrence, and Jack is
still showing an address in Rialinda as his place of residence.
Nora is actively showing Garfield Avenue in Sacramento, California at
this point in time, and this was confirmed through ancestry
(46:49):
dot com. And I want to say that was probably
done by Sandy Betts. She's done some great research. She's
even assisted in plotting out where Jack is and what
he has going on in some of the things that
we've done together. So it saddens me to see what
I'm seeing that I might have to discount a lot
of what has been done there. Maybe why we see
(47:09):
the next murders startup is because we've got this triggering
point again. And it seems like every time we have
this triggering point, we start to see murders happen again.
And the FBI will tell you that usually there is
something that triggers a person to need to kill. Maybe
it's just idle hands, maybe it's the anger coming from
(47:30):
the actual act of the divorce. I'm not sure, but
Dennis indicates that not only did Jack make and distribute
methamphetamines during this time, but he frequently drove to Oklahoma,
as we just discussed about the po boxes during the eighties,
to pick up marijuana for distribution, and who knows if
it was just marijuana. I mean, it seems like a
long way to go to pick up marijuana when people
(47:53):
in California have been growing it for years and years
and years and then have to drive back with that.
So I'm wondering if it was it's something a little
bit stiffer, like cocaine or methamphetamines. But then Dennis did
indicate that Jack knew how to actively make his own methamphetamine,
so probably didn't need to drive to pick those up either. Well,
that puts us back down to our very last minute,
(48:14):
and that's before we start jumping back into murders in
Texas again, So I'm going to kind of end it there,
all right. Well, then I'm gonna go ahead and just
have to sign off with everybody right now. Thank you
for being here once again, another amazing show. Everybody, have
a wonderful weekend. Happy Easter to you all, and we
will see you next Friday. Take care,
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You should seek the services.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Good Morning, True Seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
I'd like to welcome to the today, Harriet Suchet.
Speaker 3 (01:02):
Good morning and morning one week as they call it. Yay,
I'm all happy.
Speaker 2 (01:09):
Home. We're so excited.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Yeah that's true. Yeah, home for at least home for Easter.
I'm going to go get some cha.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Canby six months? Six months you've been basically hospitalized.
Speaker 3 (01:24):
Yeah, four months and I'm still healing. But at least
I'm healing the rest of the way in a home sitting.
So they were because I was getting up and walking
around and still complaining about the food, and they couldn't know.
I think she's I think she's pretty much good to
go because we're expecting. Yeah, let's send her home, and
(01:50):
you know what, I'm just going to be really brief
what happened to me, which is including a cerebral human alma.
It really enhanced my sense of smell and I could
smell everything, and it ended up in the freaking food
and I couldn't plus the medicines I was taking. I
(02:12):
wash forty pounds.
Speaker 2 (02:14):
Nice say it.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Yeah, it's not the way you want to lose it.
They said, no, you need, you need some weight back
so you can heal more. But and I would, and
I only said it once and then stopped serving the
shitty food. Anyways, So I'm home.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
I think that's a topic for a whole other podcast.
But Western medicine and their food is absolutely horrible.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
But yeah, I was making my own peanut butter sandwiches
and they said, you know, she's making her own stuff
to eat again, she's ready, okay, and take her yourself
at home, you.
Speaker 2 (02:55):
Know, congratulations, I mean, okay, got to be nice to
enjoy it. Well, you were only in your place a
couple of weeks right before this accident happened exactly.
Speaker 3 (03:06):
And then yeah, I decorated for Christmas, so I came
home to pros Christmas.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
That's going to kind of make you smile little Oh.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
I love Christmas?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Right?
Speaker 3 (03:19):
My family said, well, I said, you missed your birthday
and other family member's birthday, miss Christmas, and now you're
there pre Easter, celebrate all those sort things. I was.
I said, that's good to me. I'm getting candy because
they didn't serve candy episode at at least, I was,
I haven't got candy in four months?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Really, right, Oh my goodness. Well, last week we left
off on what we refer to as the Sandy Bets
murder map, and I know, well, I'm not sure how
many people were with us for the episodes that I
ran with Sandy Bets. She believes she was being stalked
by the group or the individual Zodiac killer himself. She
(03:59):
had many pieces of evidence to put forward, and some
she knew where it came from, some she didn't know
where it came from. And she also provided me with
a couple of different prospects that she thought were possible
suspects for having written some of these items. So I
thought I was going to take a look at this
handwriting finally, which is something I promised to do way
(04:21):
back then. I hadn't had the time to do it.
But I have now compared this handwriting to her couple
of suspects, one of the suspects that Tom Voight has,
and then I ended up actually comparing the handwriting itself
to Sandy Betts and things got extremely interesting. So when
(04:42):
we look at this map right now, we can see
on the outset what might appear to be a whole
bunch of Zodiac symbols. But I'm going to comment on
those because these symbols are not like what the Zodiac wrote,
because the actual lines never exceed the outside circumference of
the circle. In some cases there's a slight overhang, but
for the most part, the criss cross is all inside
(05:05):
the circle, and that is just not typically what we
saw the Zodiac actually executing. Another thing that kind of
caught me off guard is we had multiple capital letters
in the middle of lowercase printing. Now, I know that
the Zodiac would typically write or attempt to write, all
in lowercase print, but there was an occasional capital N
that looked like a W structure in his writing where
(05:27):
you could see that he was either manic or on drugs,
or he had something going on. So he was accidentally
dropping these W shaped capital letter ns in the middle
of lower case printing, and I found a few of
those in the zodiac communications, but we didn't really other
than the K in speaking, did we see any other
(05:49):
large capital letters or what we call pop out letters
in graphology on this particular map, though, I took note
to many pop up letters. So we had capital a's,
capital n's, capital r's, capital f's, capital l's was a K. Yeah, yeah,
I would I would say they're pop up k's, larger
k's than the lower case printing as well, so there
(06:11):
was very There was a lot of these pop up letters,
and we can see them like in the word pleasant.
In here we see this great, big, huge capital L.
I want to say. Up in Vacaville again we have
these capital l's. Fairfield is one word, but we see
this capital F in the middle. Let's see San Rafel,
where did I see you? Up Here again, we have
(06:31):
a capital F in the middle of lowercase. Well, two
capital a's around the capital F. But then we have
a lowercase E and then we have that pop up
capital letter L again. So all of this being that
interesting to me, I wanted to see how this fared
out with some of the suspects. So I did do
a comparison with Bob Hernandez as a handwriting or Robert Hernandez,
(06:52):
which I believe that this is the main suspect that
Sandy Betts believes is either a the Zodiac Killer part
of the group, or her stalker. I'm not really sure
because I get myself confused. She's got a couple of
different things going on. But when I did the comparison here,
I looked at these letter a's and they're just simply
they're very tall, very pointy cross very low on the crossbar,
(07:17):
and it's pretty consistent. When he writes in his lowercase
handwriting with proper capitalization. We don't see any capital a's,
capital ens, capital a, yeah, a's or ends. Let's see
no capital rs. So let me see if I find
any k's around here for him. I don't believe I did,
(07:37):
but we can see here that when he prints, he
prints with proper capitalization and lowercase letters, so that kind
of rules him out. When he prints in capital letters,
all of those capital letters, each each letter is capitalized.
So as he wrote, Hernandez, coud you can know some
(07:58):
type of a self defense school. He wrote all of
this in capital letters, so he either writes in all
caps when he writes, or he's using proper capitalization in
lowercase print. So then when we looked at actual the
form and style of the actual letters, again we didn't
find any consistencies in the letter rs or the letter ns.
(08:18):
The letter a's were obviously very different. Most most everything
that I saw in here just I got no warm
and fuzzy off this guy whatsoever. There was nothing that
made me think that this guy actively wrote this map,
which then brings us to more Sorry, I have more
handwriting from Bob Hernandez, and again we are looking at
(08:39):
his writing here. Again he is writing in proper capitalization
form with lowercase letters, and we do not see any
pop up capital letters in this writing. And again the
form across the board is not consistent with what we
see going on. In fact, we had the Imperial dragons
written up here and we've got this letter D. We
(09:00):
can see how that varies from the letter d's that
are in here in Mount Diablo and Danville. Again, just
nothing there that hit home for me that said, oh,
we've got something that's alike his capital f's as he
wrote in February. He tends to cross all the way
through that stem instead of just coming off the right
hand side of it, and we can see that that's
(09:21):
not what's happening with the letter FS in this actual
murder map. Now that brings us to Gaikowski, which is
one of Tom Void's suspects. But I think that sometimes
Sandy Betts believes that there's a possibility he could also
be the zodiac. So I had thrown some of his
writing in here to just kind of take a look
(09:42):
at it once again. We had some of the same characteristics.
We have complete capitalization, proper capitalization with lowercase printing. We
do not have any pop up letters that are not
specific to the actual writing that's going on. Again, we
have the f's that are crossed through the stem, just
(10:03):
like we saw in Bob Hernandez's handwriting, only Gaikowski tends
to have a little bit more flair to it, so
you can actually see the stem protruding from the top
of the F. And Darlene farrin we can see the
middle crossbar crosses from left to right in an inclined fashion,
so does the top crossbar, and in San Francisco pretty
(10:24):
much the same thing. We can see both the crossbar
at the top and the crossbar in the center that
is criss crossing all the way through from left to
right of that stem. So when I did any comparison
on actual letter formations, again I did not see a
lot going on here. I did see in let's see
in the word fairfield, the attempt to use this bell
(10:46):
top a that looks extremely rudimentary. It does not really
look like anything that we saw the zodiac do. We
do see that Gaikowski does have that bell top a
at least one in San Francisco, But again it's not
even the same shape or style or form as the
beltop a's that we're finding over here. So occasionally when
(11:06):
I look through these words, we'll see these belltop a's,
almost as if the person is just attempting to mimic
or put them in while the rest of them they
just didn't pay attention to the fact that they were
using all capital a's.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
Can I say something absolutely ever, you brought up of
Kyleski once once Tom Boyd said it's the zooniac because
of he was That's when he started getting lapped off
the internet. You're you're you're bringing back some some funny,
(11:42):
fond memories of saying, yeah, finally, people are just laughing
at Tom Boyd.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
You know, yeah, a huge reach. I mean, when you
see the picture of Gaikowski, you know that once again
he's just not even a a similar match. He's just
not even a match at all between the composite from
the presidio. So again, once I cross reference this particular handwriting,
and of course this is a little bit more cursive,
(12:13):
so it's a little harder to actually make some comparative values.
But we do have other letters in there that we
can use and make cross references too, So things like
the capitol letter S, which is a standout print, and
the word San Francisco, the word killing. It looks like
he wrote, rich I have killed a dozen people. And
(12:36):
of course this is a sample of Richard Gayskowski's handwriting
that was apparently obtained by authorities during the investigation regarding
the complaints by Darlene Farren's sister Pam. So we have
someone else who is evidently complaining about Gaikowski. I'm not
sure it says. This sample contains the numbers one, eight,
seven and letters t R. During her appearance on the
Sally Jesse Rafael Show. So Pam's sister must have been
(12:59):
on a show, how she must be must have called
him out or somebody would have fettered that information to
even look towards Getowski. I'm not sure how she got
involved with blaming him, do youal Harriet?
Speaker 3 (13:11):
I know he was definitely being even though it's horrible
locause there are real people killed. They were just laughing
about Richard Geikowski being it. If you got somebody who's
supposed to be Darling fair AND's sister saying, is not it?
You know? It just Tom Boyd Apparently it says here.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
It says here that his handwriting apparently was obtained by
authorities during the investigation regarding the complaints by Darling fair
and sister Pam. So Pam had to have complained about him,
and then they attained his handwriting sample, and by the
looks of it, they didn't find that anything matched, or
we'd have seen him him.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
The found nothing nothing. I think I remember something about
it Belly Jester about the El show.
Speaker 2 (13:57):
But yeah, that's pretty much what I found was nothing.
Speaker 3 (14:00):
Well, well, Tom White was grasping as straw as trying
to find a suspect to keep his Zodiac Killer dot
Com alive because at that time that Arthur Lee Allen
the prime suspect. The DNA didn't match, the handwriting never
matched a lot it didn't match, and so he's just
(14:22):
you know, he's he's the snake oil salesman of the
Zodiac world, trying to keep suspects alive, to keep his
sight going, because.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
I think that's what he called me.
Speaker 3 (14:35):
Yeah, yeah, salesman.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
It was him or Chris Yarborough. There's been so many
trolls throughout that I've even forgotten about some of them.
But I think Chris Yarborough was the one that said
I was smoking and snake oil salesperson.
Speaker 3 (14:50):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I could probably sell him on a stick.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
But he's the only one that apologized, at least somebody
who's in that name to Dennis for what they put
him through. You know, upon Dennis's death, I fought on Facebook,
so you know, we said that was nice. But you know, otherwise, yeah,
we've been through it through because of those Yes we have.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
So there's been along what sixteen years that I have
been involved in this, and I think you were involved
a little bit longer than I was, so.
Speaker 3 (15:20):
A lot longer, and I was quiet for during a
lot of the two thousands, but I kept on lurking
because you know, and I've I still at the time
and during the two thousands was backing Kenny Kilgore quietly,
because yeah, every time you supported Kenny Kilgore on tom
Boys or any of the sites, you got the crap
(15:40):
beat out of you and you were suspended for a
couple of days. I've been keep saying that the FI
he had proofed it they were backing his stepfather as
a sad Yeah, he kept on posting it, and that
would be me too.
Speaker 2 (15:55):
Now Kenny Kilgore turned out to be Dennis Kaufman though
correct incognito.
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Yeah, and so I was like, when I finally found
this sight, I says, oh my god, I think I
found the right person to support him back. I didn't
want to just have a suspect and throw out the name.
I wanted to really solve it.
Speaker 2 (16:14):
Yeah. I sat back for a while incognito as well
on his message board, just to kind of get information
from individuals before they figured out who I was. And
then of course once they figured out who I was,
then oof the onslaught was on. I think even at
one point in time, I had moderated Dennis's message board
for him, kicking off all of the trolls and getting
rid of the people who were just basically there to,
(16:36):
you know, cause drama in the middle of real information
that people was seeking.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
So another one of whom was probably hundreds you've.
Speaker 2 (16:46):
Blocked, Probably I went to town. If you were a jerk,
you were out of there.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
Well.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
And I think that a lot of these trolls that
were on the Internet were signing up for multiple accounts,
so sometimes I could literally read the messages that they
were giving and see that that was literally okay, this
is the same person under a different name. Of course,
again incognito. Nobody wants to be out there with their
name on anything because if they're going to be jackwagons,
(17:14):
they don't want to be it to be known that
it's them that's doing it, which was not something that
I appreciated at all. If you're going to come at us,
come at us for real, and come at us as
the person you are, not as some covered up individual
which can't be found or asked. To stand up and
raise your hand and say that you believe the things
(17:35):
that you believe.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
You block like one isp that would be like you know,
ten or twenty bops as they call them now, so
you know, selling, Yeah, one ISP and then we'll clean
up the whole board for a while.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Yes it did, Yes it did. We were able to
actually go in there and plot out that information. Nobody
wants to read through all the garbage just to sift
through thirty forty different bad messages just to get a
little piece of some type of evidence. We wanted the
evidence to be straightforward and clear and discussed and something
that people could follow easily without all the drama and
(18:13):
the nastiness in between. Well enough on that. I do
have some I do. I do have some other handwriting.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
From I just wanted to say something really quick quick.
Now when I'm seeing stuff that's been going on for
maybe a couple of centuries and it's still continuing, we
still have the same sort of types of people who
just don't want the truth out there.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
You mean decades or I guess you are.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
Because the stuff I'm doing right now it is going
back a couple of.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
Ye, but we're not we're not covering that though. So basically,
Richard MCKOWSI had another piece of information out there, which
was a request for a passport, in which case his
handwriting was found on When we look at this handwriting,
we can once again look across and see that there's
just no comparative value between the actual letter forms and
(19:06):
structures size shape. Again, he's using proper capitalization with lowercase printing,
no pop up letters. Even his cas tend to look
more like a lowercase K, although Dakota looks a little
bit bigger here. When we look at Gaikowski up here,
just definitely formed as a lowercase K. And then again
(19:28):
cross comparing that to the information on the map, there
was just really nothing that was kind of given me
a warm and fuzzy again, even with this particular handwriting.
So I've looked at different handwritings over different time frames.
I want to say this one was in the nineties
or something like that for the passport, and then the
other one was at some point in time during the
actual investigation of the Zodiac Killer way back when. That
(19:54):
brings us actually to the commonalities that I found in
some of the community cations that Sandy Betts had indicated
she had received. So she stated she received a message
that says, why am I afraid to tell you who
I am. She also received another message she believed from
somebody who stated that they were some type of a
(20:18):
oh gosh astrologist basically giving her astrology reading. So it's
a secretive, mysterious, extremely brilliant. You are active, hardworking and aggressive.
You're sensitive to the needs of others. You are a
quiet fighter. You are a slow starter, but once you
get going, look out. When I cross compared these three communications,
(20:39):
which included the actual murder map from Sandy Betts, I
did find some consistencies between the one that she claimed
came from an individual who was giving her an astrology reading.
We see these backwards whys. We see these backwards why.
Also in the why am I afraid to tell you
who I am? Now? In the word why, we see
(20:59):
the the why is actually created correctly. So this persona
of doing this backwards why is obviously somebody manipulating their handwriting.
I don't know why that this was even a thing,
because you're not going to find backwards whys in the
Zodix handwriting. But she believed that these messages look like
the Zodix handwriting. And again it was either a note
(21:22):
pass to someone or note pass to a coworker that
was given to her. She doesn't know where the murder
map came from. But let's talk about these consistencies real quick.
So aside from a backwards why between these two messages,
it looks to me that this particular this is a
persona somebody is trying to play and put on. And
then as I go through the messages, we start to
find the capital a's, the capital f's, the capital l's,
(21:47):
all in the middle of lowercase printing, while the astrology
reading tends to be more strict lowercase print with proper capitalization.
We do see in the word look out capital L.
But that was really the only capital that I saw
that was out of place in here. When I did
(22:08):
the cross comparison between the actual murder map itself and
these particular ones, we found the capital a's, we found
the capital rs. We found let's see capital n's, capital l's.
So again we're finding now these cross references between these three,
(22:29):
these two communications so basically different. Significant characteristics between these
three kind of tied them all together and suggests that
they were written by one person. In the word valeo,
we've got double capital l's there. So now down here
when we're looking at this handwriting at the bottom. This
is actually Sandy Bett's handwriting, and I about fell out
of my chair because I did not know how it
(22:51):
was going to play out, even though I had saw
some things in early on, like these capital letter fs
that write right here in the word different, very very
consistent with the capital letter s that are found in
this message up here that says, why am I afraid
to tell you who I am? And I mean so
so stinking similar that even the way they're formed, the
(23:12):
way that the top crossbar comes back below the actual
top of the stem kind of almost in a V
shape or a K like formation on that F is
very consistent with what we see in her handwriting. We
also find in her handwriting capital l's, capital RS, capital
n's capital Let's see here l R, N, R, L, f's,
(23:39):
and f's are really a big one for me here, folks,
because capital fs are not something that I've seen in
the middle of lowercase printing. I've seen a's, I've seen rs,
I've seen d's, I've seen n's, i've seen m's. Capital
F in the middle of lowercase printing is completely almost
like a solid identifier for somebody. If I saw this
(24:00):
in a writing, and I was being asked to determine
whether or not somebody had executed a document and found
these s in there. I would this might be enough
to sell me all by itself, just because of how unique.
It is. So aside from that, we also look at
the word valao. Now, this is the word valao on
the map, and this is the word valao in Sandy's handwriting.
(24:20):
And I took a note to the actual baseline of
the letters. So the V starts out at one position,
the A hops up, the l's hop up, the E
hops up, the J hops up. And when we looked
over here at the valeo that was actually written on
the murder map, we've got a V that's lower, the
A that hops up, the l's that hop up, and
we have a straight tail J, which is exactly what
(24:41):
we see in her handwriting as well. The l's were
all consistent. The ends actually, I mean, even when you
look at the formation and the shape of the letter,
ends in Danville and San Ramon are consistent with her
letter ends. Now, another thing that kind of drew it
all back together for me was that Sandy uses a
three hump M and it's cursive in nature. Written in
(25:03):
the middle of printed writing. There's another huge key identifier,
because not many people do this, let alone even do
three humps in cursive writing. So when I looked back
and saw the why am I afraid to tell you
who I am? Lo and behold, we have three hump
cursive written ms in the middle of that message. So
(25:24):
now I am extremely like, if not upset, that I
have wasted any time in this particular notion that she
is being threatened by somebody they How is it that
they can write like her? How is it that they
form letters like her, use the same type of capital letters.
They're just not Nobody's sitting around working on trying to
mimic Sandy Bett's handwriting in order to make it look
(25:47):
like she wrote this while threatening her. Doesn't make any
sense in my brain. So we've got some things to
look at there. I think I have some more on
the writing. Oh yes, we discussed the formation of the
actual zodiac sign sign itself, and we can see here
that this the crossbars of the zodiac symbol does not
go through the actual circle and Lo and behold, that
(26:08):
is exactly how Darling fair or Darling shoot Sandy Betts
does it. As well, so again there was another home
run hit on the formation. We can see this is
something she claims that somebody had left, I think for
one of her coworkers, or he had claimed he was
trying to help her in her zodiac pursuit. And when
(26:30):
I got into here, of course I did see some
other things that were consistent with the previous letters that
we just looked at. Let me see if I worked
up any Oh, yes, I did work up on that one.
So some of the things that I was seeing was
this uptick that happens at the bottom left hand side
of the stems of things like t's and h's. You
can see it happening over and over again inside of here.
(26:54):
And one of the things that we saw in the
murder map itself was again this leftward tick that happens
at the bottom of the tees and then this crisscross
star shaped tea where it's basically done in one clean
fluid movement, which is to draw from the top of
the stem downward, exit off to the left, but not
pick up the pen, and then cross to the right
(27:14):
with the crossbar on the tee. And that happened in Sacramento.
It happened in Sana Rosa. And then of course when
we got into Sandy's handwriting, we found it everywhere, this
crisscross tee that is shaped like a star basically, and
you can find it in much of her handwriting. So
I think that that's a clue, pushing it back into
that notion that there is a possibility that she was
(27:37):
creating these she was attempting to make them look like
they were Zodiac written, even though I find that there
are lots of differences and reasons to believe that they
are not. Either way, that's too close to home for me,
for somebody to complain to be to having been terrorized
by people, or you know, somebody stalking her with this information,
(28:00):
when in reality there's just so many commonalities with their
own handwriting that we have to question whether or not
that she has been honest with us. Here's another cross
reference of that same Robert gray Smith note and document,
in which case I pulled apart even more items that
are linked by virtue of those backwards wise, the capital l's,
(28:26):
the actual word the and the shape of the hs
are very consistent with her handwriting as well. It just
goes on and on, and sometimes when you have the
right suspect for handwriting. You could continue making those matches
all day long. I felt that this was significant enough
for me to kind of drop this notion that this
came from the zodiac. Number one, because it's not a
(28:47):
match to his handwriting. And number two, it does not
match any of the suspects she claims to have been
involved with her being terrorized. And number three, there are
so many consistencies with her handwriting that I'm pretty much
going to eighty six this notion altogether.
Speaker 3 (29:01):
What do you think, Harriet, Oh, I sure would love
to hear explanation on all of this, but you know, yeah,
so some of the things. I think you would say
that some of the stuff on her maps are matching,
but you know, this is this We need to hear
some explanations as to why this is happening.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Well, and I had with the last couple of weeks
to come back on the show. Like I said, she's
now adopted the thought process of some new suspect out
there that might possibly have some bearing on what it
is that she's doing and looking at, and she felt
compelled to deal with them before actually coming on the show.
So this is going to play out the way it
plays out without her because I offered her to come in.
(29:47):
I don't know how she would have handled this kind
of information she may have gotten mad, I don't know.
I did actually have one worse slide where I looked
at the letter P as it pertains to the Robert
Graysmith that she supposedly got, and the ps have these
little flags that are sticking up to the top left
hand side here, and even the shapes of the bulls
(30:09):
are similar. They don't close back to the actual stem,
but we see that in her peas in her own
writing once again have that flag that sticks out just
kind of curved off to the left just a little bit.
But again, just another consistency too much for me anyways,
all right, I'm done with my rant and I did
(30:29):
finally get that handwriting done for everybody. Robert Hernandez is
not a match. Richard Gaikowski is not a match. And unfortunately,
there are far too many commonalities with Sandy Bett's handwriting
for me to dismiss that this was somebody else actively
trying to terrorize her, and that it is likely she
is the one that actually constructed and created that map
(30:50):
and possibly the other letters as well. So that brings
us back to the murderers. And I think we actually
had started to talk about these ones. Last time. We
had a Heidi Villa Real five, which you had commented
on believing it was Abel Robert Abel, and.
Speaker 3 (31:11):
I have my books that I can look at here.
But but anyways, so yeah, I had a hard time
pronouncing her name too, but as I went along, so
my god, she's another victim of Robert Abel who couldn't
get help and even a minute over the years, you
know to other people that he kind of needed help
(31:32):
for some things. And you know, of course he didn't
tell all his friends, well I'm a killer, we're to
your children. But you know, so you.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
Believe he was. You believe he was back and forth
between California and Texas. Committee murders.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Yeah, I have them linked to Gidley, Patricia Gidley, and
I had to look into that one. I said, how
could he be linked there? The wedding that she was
going to had to deal with Bracewell, very famous NASA person,
the Bracewell Observatory at Stanford, and apparently he went to
(32:14):
that wedding and they had some kind of date. But
I guess she reminded him of Janis Joplin. But she,
Patricia Gidley, was extremely smart, really intelligent. She was involved
with West Coast NORAD, so she did imaging and things
(32:35):
like that. I mean, it's really a twenty three years
old in the mind of a fifty year old scientist
said that she was killed. But yeah, but maybe that
was also it. She had a mind like a scientist,
and you know, he didn't want to deal with that.
I don't know things would trigger him.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
But yeah, I think I think she They articulated she
went missing or to first of nineteen eighty three. Were
you able to lock that in as far as the
wedding date was concerned.
Speaker 3 (33:06):
I believe so. And hold on a second, Well, yeah,
so she went missing, and I think she I think
there was another witness that few would happened, and that's
a future event where somebody else went missing in that
same area in nineteen eighty four. So it was that
(33:27):
convenience store location.
Speaker 2 (33:30):
Well, it did say that she went to use the
payphone at League City convenience store and that's where she
was abducted from. So she didn't quite make it to California,
is what I'm getting.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Oh, no, she didn't make it to California, but Rubert
Abel was pretty active.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
A myth, so it says that she was beaten to
death with a club in broken bones found in the
killing fields where Miller and two Jane Doe's were found.
So obviously with those, suspect is returning to bury bodies
where others have been buried. I know that Jack has
just requested a divorce on October twentieth of nineteen eighty three. However,
this predates she went missing. Obviously, they say October first,
(34:13):
that predates it. It doesn't mean that Jack isn't there,
because again he is just now coming off and the
rest he is having to get his affairs in order
before he turns himself in, and he does, I believe
thirty days in jail. So Jack always returns home, guys,
every single time, whenever anything is going on while he's
waiting to enter the military. I'd say a few times
(34:34):
a year, probably mostly holidays. He returned home to Mom,
but he was back and forth to Texas on a
constant basis. On October third of nineteen eighty three, it
says you got my first It's a letter postmarked Kalamazoo Michigan.
I know that we put in here to research this.
Now that you're at home, maybe we can start looking
up this particular letter and see if there's any instances
(34:55):
or versions of it out there.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
Let me look at that, right. I was driving me
crazy the last couple of days, I said, I was
trying to play. So anyways, ye, I send it whatever.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Oh I don't have it. I just it's in the
FOYA files. It's listed as a letter that was examination. Okay, okay,
I'll send that out to you. On our chamber. Twenty six,
six days after Jack requests divorce, we have Sondra or
Sandra Rambler in Santa Fe, Texas, goes missing. She was
abducted on her way to the store. So a lot
(35:28):
of these convenience stores, little stores. I mean, if we
go all the way back to Sherry Joe Bates, he
mentions taking the suspect, mentions taking people from little stores.
So that rolls us right down into November two of
nineteen eighty three on the Corvette concepts murders in Texas.
(35:48):
I believe we did start to talk about this a bit,
because it is actually notated in Tim Miller's letter. We
can see the envelope portion of it over here that
is addressed to Tom Humble. And there's a lot of
things that I found were consistent and intertwined with this,
because there is talk about Humble, Texas in this particular
letter in lieu of superfudge, which is a very interesting
(36:13):
tie in we believe between Anthrax and this letter where
he's taking ultimate I believe he was taking ultimate responsibility
for all of these different crime sprees across the United States. However, Harriet,
you believe that he was telling on people who were
actually doing it. But this one letter does really encompass
(36:35):
everything from the Zodiac Killer, to the phantoms, to the
Corvette Concepts Fiasco mystery, the Zodiac kill. I mean, there's
just so many different references inside this letter. Now, this
one was actually it stated that the return address was
I believe it looks like six or five ninety five
West Main League City, Texas seven seven five seven three,
(36:58):
and it mentions Corvette Concepts Fiasco mystery, and of course
that brings us to the Corvette Concepts murders, where three
individuals were actually murdered, Beth Wilburn, Thomas McGraw and James Oates.
Beth was stabbed one hundred and twenty nine times, and
in addition to being shot, McGraw was shot and stabbed
fifteen times, and a sharpened screwdriver was embedded in his spine.
(37:20):
It does not indicate how James Oates was killed, at
least by this particular information that I have. It does
indicate they've made an arrest at one point in time,
though I don't have the date on it. That must
have fell through, and that person must not have been
able to be charged or convicted of the crime, because
in twenty twenty one we have an article that comes
(37:41):
out saying corvette and cash offered for answers in cold
case murder. So they are still looking for a suspect
in this, and I think that the author of this
letter to Tim Miller in regards to his daughter is
probably the direction they should be looking in. Do you
have anything to add to that on the corvette concepts?
Speaker 3 (37:57):
I think that I think they did get somebody. But
you know, I was looking to see if I had
anything printed about all this, and I think these are
two books that have not been printed yet by me.
So I've done, for some reason, a lot of detail
on what ended up being the Quarbette concepts and the
(38:20):
description of the evidence and stuff. So Jack definitely had
the information about what happened with this, and so the
only thing I can add is that I'll have to
look up what I have and just kind of go
over it again. It's just he's I think that that's
why he was calling it a fiasco, because the detectives there,
(38:45):
even though a lot of them are good and you know,
honest people, there's still people who want to cover up
things in the past that are linked to other people,
that are connected to certain people. And you know, I've
seen the dirtiness of John Edward Walsh Younger, so anything
that seems to be connected to that, because he's supposed
to be a good guy on that show. Anyways, I
(39:07):
can go on and on, but it's that way it
was called. The fiasco is just how they handle it
the evidence, you know, one hundred and eighteen times, you know, uh.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
Yeah, yeah, no. And I get that because that's kind
of Zodiac one on one to call them out on
their ineptness. When when he finds that the police is
not appropriately handling things, he likes to actually get a
shout out. So calling it a fiasco would not surprise me.
What does surprise me is that this is a little
bit off the the mo of what we're seeing with
(39:42):
the other females that are happening in Texas. This is,
you know, walking into a place of business. This is
wiping out everybody who happens to be in there. I
don't believe that they mentioned anything in regards to you know,
robbery or anybody taking any money, but this is definitely
overkill and meant to be personal. I mean, if you're
(40:02):
going to leave a sharp and screwdriver embedded in somebody's fine,
and you're not going to take that murder weapon with you,
you're sending a message. You stay, have somebody one hundred
and twenty nine times and shoot them, You're sending a message.
So what were these individuals into? And you have to
think that, you know, somebody owning a Corvette dealership is
probably pretty high up there as far as money is concerned.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
Ye, all right, drugs. I think drugs plays a key
role in that somebody knew something.
Speaker 2 (40:33):
Yeah, and that was kind of where my head was going,
But I don't know that to be true. So it
wasn't something I was going to mention. Obviously, we've got
victims here, and we don't want to throw any more
shade on them than they have already. But there's a possibility.
I mean, we've heard Timmeller discuss what he was doing
at the time his daughter was taken. We've heard you
(40:55):
and Lindsay mcbray talk about John Walsh and what he
was in the middle love at the time his son
was taken. There is some type of a commonality that
is coming back to those types of events. So I
do have on here that I believe that that Jack
probably turned himself in after November tewod whereby he is
(41:16):
released on November first for his thirty days. It's also
a contention that Jack would have gone home to Texas,
as I had stated while going through the divorce with Nora.
Even though we are showing an address in real Linda,
we see addresses for Jack all over the place. I mean,
he is still currently holding peel boxes in Texas at
this time. He's holding peel boxes in Oklahoma at this time.
(41:40):
I think he has virtually many addresses that could be
tied to him during this particular period. November fourteenth and
nineteen eighty three, twenty five year old Stanley lang Common
on Highway fifty nine in north Park Drive in Kingwood, Texas.
It says on November thirteenth, nineteen eighty three, at approximately
ten pm, victim Stanley laying Common left his residence on
(42:02):
Ashmur Street in Houston, Texas, telling his girlfriend that he
was restless and was going out. On November fourteenth, nineteen
eighty three, at approximately eight a m. An employee working
on fire hydrant drains found the dead body of common
Line in a partially cleared field off North Park Drive
at Highway fifty nine in Kingwood, Texas. He had been
shot multiple times and his car was missing. Commons vehicle
(42:24):
was subsequently found parked in the thousand block of Webster
Street in Houston. The car had been at that location
since December fifth, nineteen eighty three, at which time a
parking ticket had been issued. And again this goes back
to the cars that go missing. So we've got the
victim that is killed, and we've got the car that
has moved to another location and subsequently found. Now I
(42:45):
show that this is the last unsolved murder for almost
seven months, and we do see that again Jack is
going to go to jail and he is going to
be on probation for quite some time, but Texas is
going to be free, at least as far as my
research is concerned. If there are moarmer out there, then
please send them through. I have looked up on the
website for Texas and Unsolved Killings and it does not
(43:07):
show any other unsolved murders for this time period either.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Well, I know when you mentioned about Webster Street and
the position and how much you know, there was X
amount of shots and I'm just wondering if that person
was a witness to what happened with Joan Webster. That's
how my mind thinks, you know, because there was somebody
who witnessed Joan Webster getting into a vehicle that and
(43:35):
they were and I'm saying Jack, Jack somehow knew all
this information and they were allegedly trying to get her
attention to not go into that vehicle, so, you know,
and that's what I seeing that it does look like
it was Rubbert Abel again and the witness of the
composite fits Robert Able to a t including the beard.
(43:58):
So again, you know, this somebody that they're trying to
lead some information that and that's so I'm seeing this
did they see something with what happened with Joean Webster?
Who you know again, we got NASA, a whole bunch
of things going on there, the International Telephone and Telegraph
Company huge that has something.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
Where Joan Webster we've already discussed her. Then she's already
been killed but gets victims.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Yeah, well there was somebody who witnessed her getting into
that car. So you know, Robert Abel, who's usually in Texas,
was back there. So that.
Speaker 2 (44:42):
We have we have seen the use of street names
as it pertains two different victims, such as oh yeah,
and Susan Dagnan on Hollywood Boulevard and Dagnan Boulevard in
those murders. So yeah, you're you're not far behind what
we know to be a typic for these crimes. I
(45:03):
had already read that one. So we're just going to
hop on into Jack's probation. So on December first, nineteen
eighty three, Jack is signing probation documents, but there's no
time frame given for how long. In these particular documents,
Jack is paying his spines for the crimes December one,
nineteen eighty three in Sacramento, California, so he obviously is
no longer in prison at this point, and we start
(45:24):
to see him freely moving around again. They did give
him an orientation that was completed at the probation office
on December second, nineteen eighty three, in Sacramento, California. So
once again we know he is out because he is
now attending probation appointments. That is, on December seventh and
nineteen eighty three, Jack receives the interlocatory judgment for the
(45:46):
divorce from Nora. For now, Jack list his home address
for the divorce as twenty one to thirty five Elkhorn Boulevard,
reel Into, California nine five six seven three. Only in
this particular paperwork and on his probation paper do we
see that listed. I don't know that that necessarily means
that Jack is actively living there, but I am betting
(46:07):
that he probably had to play or pretend he was
living somewhere in the Sacramento area, at least for the
purpose of probation. But that doesn't stop people from going
places where they shouldn't be going and leaving the state
and doing what they want to do, as we've seen
many people actively do even though they were on probation.
(46:27):
I also already read that one and that one, and
that brings us to May twenty second of nineteen eighty four,
the divorce's final from Nora Mary Terrence, and Jack is
still showing an address in Rialinda as his place of residence.
Nora is actively showing Garfield Avenue in Sacramento, California at
this point in time, and this was confirmed through ancestry
(46:49):
dot com. And I want to say that was probably
done by Sandy Betts. She's done some great research. She's
even assisted in plotting out where Jack is and what
he has going on in some of the things that
we've done together. So it saddens me to see what
I'm seeing that I might have to discount a lot
of what has been done there. Maybe why we see
(47:09):
the next murders startup is because we've got this triggering
point again. And it seems like every time we have
this triggering point, we start to see murders happen again.
And the FBI will tell you that usually there is
something that triggers a person to need to kill. Maybe
it's just idle hands, maybe it's the anger coming from
(47:30):
the actual act of the divorce. I'm not sure, but
Dennis indicates that not only did Jack make and distribute
methamphetamines during this time, but he frequently drove to Oklahoma,
as we just discussed about the po boxes during the eighties,
to pick up marijuana for distribution, and who knows if
it was just marijuana. I mean, it seems like a
long way to go to pick up marijuana when people
(47:53):
in California have been growing it for years and years
and years and then have to drive back with that.
So I'm wondering if it was it's something a little
bit stiffer, like cocaine or methamphetamines. But then Dennis did
indicate that Jack knew how to actively make his own methamphetamine,
so probably didn't need to drive to pick those up either. Well,
that puts us back down to our very last minute,
(48:14):
and that's before we start jumping back into murders in
Texas again, So I'm going to kind of end it there,
all right. Well, then I'm gonna go ahead and just
have to sign off with everybody right now. Thank you
for being here once again, another amazing show. Everybody, have
a wonderful weekend. Happy Easter to you all, and we
will see you next Friday. Take care,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.