April 4, 2025 • 50 mins
Texas murders continue to occur, and while some of them are not attributed to the Zodiac Killer, others appear that he is taking credit for them through future communications. Jack receives a sentence and probation for the 1983 assault on the family. Jack divorces Nora, starts selling guns, and is living in Rio Linda, CA for an unspecified timeframe. Meanwhile, the death of a man that knocked up Jack’s step-daughter still begs whether or not it was a jump to his death???
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Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/hit-the-road-jack-finding-the-zodiac--5297837/support.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,
professional service, or any advice.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You should seek the services.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Good Morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
I'd like to to the show today. Nolan del Campo,
Good morning, everybody, Good morning, and Harriet souchet Ye have
good morning, Good morning.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
I'm actually going to start with you today.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
We talked about a week and a half ago about
Joan Webster, who was murdered in Boston, Massachusetts, on November
twenty eighth of nineteen eighty one, and I had put
in here that I wanted to research this slide in
regards to the fifty megahertz screech, which I now don't
even know what my notes were about. I do show
that there were some letters that were mailed to Cambridge, Massachusetts,
(01:38):
and I think that I found those in the Foio file,
and of course they indicated that there was a cipher
in those particular communications. And you know which ones I'm
talking about, right, Harriet.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, and I have to locate that cipher. I worked
on that one a while ago.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Oh okay, so we're going to talk about a different
a different cipher today then, right.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
In regards to Joan Webster, it's if.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I remember correctly, you were asking me to do something
or see if I can finish solving something, and I
kept on finding the Santa Claus card. So and then
everybody and their grandmother says it has something to do
with Joan Webster. So yeah, I guess we'll take it
from there. Okay, work on it.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Well, I didn't actually pull up a copy of that
particular postcard, but we know that postcards are definitely within
the zodiacs realm. He was phenomenal for our infamous I
guess if you will, for sending out postcards like the
Lancaster and Palmdale postcard.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
In regards to.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
JFK and the thirteenth Victim postcard. We saw postcards back
in the Black Dahl Yea. It seemed to be a
running theme in the communications, so I would not discount that,
and it would be interesting to see that particulular communication.
Do you know whether it was handwritten or if it
was tied. How was that one posed? Oh, you know,
(03:07):
it was hand hand written. And the card itself, the
Santa Claus postcard was in a it was a window
envelope stationary thing, and then it and it had Yeah,
then it had four stamps on it. Once I saw that,
because when I saw it initially, I said, I'm not
(03:28):
going to get anything out of this. Who keeps on
thinking that this is from the zodiac and they must
have killed Joan.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
So anyways, then I saw the four stamps. Three of
them had the killer, which is a line only set
of the postmark. Then I took it from there because
I did get a lot. I get a lot, oh,
just identifying everything about the stamps. Yeah, I'd identify everything
about the four stamps. And then there was a couple
(03:58):
of these mysterious versions of Joan Webster because they were
saying it had something to do with Joan Webster because
of a name or a couple of names on the envelope.
And once I because yeah, there was a couple of
(04:19):
parts partial reactions. If I remember, right, and then it
just flowed from there and it looks like Jack was
trying to bypass Reagan again. He does alike Reagan, and
he's asking Jimmy Carter for some help in regards of
what basically they know that they have some information as
(04:41):
to what happened to Joan Webster and that he was
fearing at the end of the Saul that's saying, I'm
fearing that she lost her life off the creek, the
Chewbacca Creek. I try to remember the name of the creek.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
And then.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
There's a U shape the fight ways use safe fee
for the Santa Claus with a dot in it. If
you turn turn it a little bit, it fits the
exact location in off of the creek where they found
her remains in the nineties. Oh really has information?
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Go ahead, Nolan, Do you have a little more background
on Johan Webster, what her job was and you know.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Any wealthy family, wealthy Yeah, well, yeah, wealthy family, and
her father worked for International Telephone and Telegraph. And when
you look into that, we'd be here for about a
week trying to describe all of what they were involved
with aerospace. They could even do phone numbers for the
(05:48):
White House. So some of this solve came out with
reducted phone numbers, the prefixes for the White House. So
and your father was So it was an interesting solve,
and it looks like they had information and they're saying
(06:10):
that it was Robert Abel and Jack was trying to
relay this information through Carter, through a series of people.
You know, just I fear that she's lost her life.
But when I saw the Robert Abel esque of it,
all of how they found her remains and that she
(06:32):
was legend and that she was off to the side
of the creek, it's very gross. I looked for the
picture of the suspect and there is a picture and
it looks like Robert Abel. Really composite. Yeah, it looks
because he looks like the composite in a circle nineteen
eighty with the beard and black hair, et cetera. Hype everything.
(06:56):
Wow you this Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Like me to read it and you can tell us
what it means.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Oh, go for it, all right.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
So it says mister Carter six thirty thirty facsimile. So
you're saying that six thirty and thirty seconds PM facsimile?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Is that what that's saying Woodland Drive and in the morning.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
O in the am SO fac simile Woodland Drive planes
Georgia three one seven eight zero. So that's where the
facsimile was sent to.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah. Yeah, he's trying to get information out about who
killed her.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
And it says four five six Press Mitchell photograph Harold
Genen Itt Webster father. So Harold genen Is is the father. Well,
so what's the press Mitchell photograph?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Oh? Ben Mitchell was a press photographer. He did fairly
for his Santa Claus. But it looks like you might
have taken a few pictures they had to do with
the Republican Party in the New York area. I think.
So he was a philographer. He was a famous gotcha.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
And it says Harold Jenen Itt Webster father George RNC
nineteen seventy two, United States, prominent Americans. What does that mean?
So George is her father, not Harold jean in right.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, Harold jenen is the top guy in international telephone
and telegraph.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Oh that's where you go.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yep, there will be a candle, all right.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
So Harold jenen is obviously you're saying he's the head
of Itt and Webster's father George Republican National Committee nineteen
seventy two, United States Prominent America kins r E four
five six.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
What is that?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
That's re elect And then the prefix of four five
six is the for the White House and it's the
redacted phone number. So it's re elect to Nixon committee creep.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
So creepy.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, the committee to re Elect President Nixon.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Re elect President Nixon.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Creep Ah.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
All right, guys, so it says Nixon won eleven sixty eight,
and it goes back to give that redacted phone number
again with the prefix of four five six, which you
said was a white House prefix.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah, yeah, So these trying to not give out the
White House numbers in this code. But Jimmy Carter was right.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Vice President ag New four hundred brand what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
No, vice President Agnew And then they did something with
four hundred grand that was apparently suspected to be a
no no, so they had to take that back. But
this is all involving the International Telephone and telegraph people.
They tried to do a big donation, but they had
(10:25):
to work it out retract it. And so he's bringing
up he's recapping about those events that leads up to
knowing something about Joan Webster. What happened to you is right?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
So it goes on to say, you remember eleven twenty
seventy eight, still alive, Pope John Paul the second ab
New York City, New York see Washington stamps printed by
Bureau of Printing Engraving perforation eleven millimeter use business rep Elope.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, the prisins play envelope. Yeah, where we're where his
mother is being used as the post office in Texas.
So he's trying to recap and remind harder what had
happened recently. So he's just doing a good job about
recapping and code. Gotcha.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
And then it goes on to say, save me to
tell the truth.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
New Jersey eleven three eighty five, Joan met So you're
saying that Johan Webster is from originally from New Jersey.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, that's her zip code. Yeah, her following.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Gotten because this was showing that it was Boston, Massachusetts.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
How's that play in?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Oh, she apparently for the had visited for the holidays
like round Thanksgiving and then was going back to her
college or her university Massachusetts and saying that she met
up and had a connection to Rubbert Abele bad connection.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
So yeah, Jon met Shitty Moonquest Texas killer fucker Abel
ten forty seven thirty seven what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
That was all the numbers I had left after I
was finishing with the words, and many people said that
they saw her after ten pm, even after ten thirty pm.
So I said, well, forty seven, yeah, it's the time.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Seven, Yeah, thirty seven We're seen kissing with Robert in
bus station window. So she was seen kissing Robert Abel.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
That's what it is saying that she was seen kissing him.
And I think somehow Jack was there or his crew
was there, that they were witnessing this and trying to
flagger down. There's witnesses that said that. People said that
they didn't want her to get into this vehicle with
this guy. Long story, so looks like it.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Window and I drive eleven twenty eight eighty one out
to Chewbacco Road, mass So, Massachusetts. So it is now
indicating that so and I drive. Okay, so I saw
with Robert inbus station window and I drive eleven twenty
eight what's what's eleven twenty eighth eighty one, that's when
(13:34):
she died. I'll teach Chebacco ch E b a Cco Road,
Chebacco Road, Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Damn you say her, Damn my fear of the co ed.
The pretty co ed has lost her life there.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
And that, yes, that is the completion of it. So worry,
pretty girl. Co ed lost life Creek Area seven seven
seven seven, No one is the sign off correct.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, he's doing a lot of angel numbers at that
time period. It was like every time I see some
subsequent numbers that are left, I look him up and
if it's four of seven four or three four fours,
it all means something. So he's trying to convey that
he's got spiritual help, that he's got some guidance, and
(14:29):
he's got support, and he's working.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
I want to say that in nineteen eighties, wasn't that
when he got baptized quit drinking.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
That's what I'm That's what I'm hearing. The rumor is.
All I know is he's this is now one time
period where he's working and he's with the Holy See,
which is shocking, but doing doing intel of work for them.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
When when does his post When was his postcard purportedly
sent after obviously Jim Webster past right? I mean because
it's discussing that she's already lost her life.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I think it was reportedly early January nineteen eighty two,
very early.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Okay, so shortly after that, all right, and I know
that he I want to say that it's eighty three
that he goes to work for Hewlett Packard because he
doesn't come back to California and reunite with Nora and
the family until I want to say, well, and we
know that they're separated during nineteen eighty two because he's
in Texas with his mom at this point on a
(15:39):
separation from Nora. So yeah, I would have to be
like eighty three is when he probably started his work
for Hewlett Packard. Okay, Well that was a very interesting soul.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Thank you. Anything else that I wanted to add to that, Well,
I just want to thank you for I ended up.
I kept on stumbling on that damn postcard for something
else that you requested. So I said, well, it's this
is something to look at, so it's indirectly has something
(16:12):
to do with what you requested. So I said, well,
I worked on Joe Webster too. Well yeah, so anyway, so.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Dan, yeah, loan, behold, she's in this presentation. Albeit I
was under the impression it was something maybe the Zodiac
had done. But it looks like now what you're saying
is is that that was the act of Robert Abel.
Once again, how many murders do you think that Robert
Abel committed?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
It could be dozens upon dozens. He even admitted that
he killed some and you know, butchered them in the
early early seventies, especially around seventy one. And he admitted
he was troubled, so he had the how did arrested?
(16:57):
Definitely not arrested. He was one of the top five
NASA people that got us to the moon through the rockets,
so he has all kinds of dark secrets in his head.
And you know, how was he going to get therapy
for that to help him when he's at the time
(17:18):
a national security risk. So they just didn't know what
to do with them. I think it's terrible. It sounds awful.
So and he knew he was troubled.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
We've seen troubled and bad people get away with things
because they need them, They use them their you know.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Benefit to the higher power, I guess if you will.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
So that's not a strange thing to see people get
away with crimes that they otherwise wouldn't get away with
because they literally are either an informant or you know,
necessary to whatever.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Cause they have going on.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I know that last weekend Lindsay mcbray had mentioned after
the show that that connection, obviously we keep running back
into NASA, especially with Robert Abel. But she had indicated
that obviously there's our tie in because NASA then to
Lockey Lockey to John Benny Ramsey, which is going to
be coming up here soon or John Ramsey. Should I say,
(18:17):
not John Benay, but her father, John Ramsey, who in
turn was you know, selling his computer software too lockeed
before all of this went down with John Benny Ramsey.
So she wanted to remind us that that connection still
kind of sits and fits quite nicely. So onto our
next slide, Doer's.
Speaker 5 (18:39):
Real Quick, Real Quick JPL Jeff Polsman Laborator is also
highly intertwined with NASA. They're one of their primary contractors,
and everybody, all the higher ups in NASA and all
the astronauts are all Freemasons, and Jack Person's form JPL
(18:59):
was a higher up and freemakes it as well as
a disciple of Elisir Crowley, Oh Dearess Malasons are all
tied up and a lot of those stuff.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
So maybe that's where they keep coming up with this
cult idea or concept that's kind of surrounding everything.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
Yeah, perhaps I know.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
That I try to steer away from that.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Yeah, they may be tenuous, but they're there, right.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
And I know that I had always promised myself in
the middle of this investigation, and you know, examining these letters,
that I was going to steer clear of the cult aspect.
I was going to steer clear of the child aspect.
And it seems like I can't steer clear of it
because everything just keeps climbing right back down those holes
one way or another.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
Yes, can ignore the obvious sometimes.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Or at least I shouldn't, all right, So our next
Sivee Doers believes. January nineteen eighty three, Jack is said
to begin a lengthy career with hughle Packard in Rosewelt, California,
as a sergeant on the security team contracted through Pinkerton Security.
This is the first real job Jack has had for
quite some time. Like I literally could not map out
a legitimate job for Jack for years at least since
(20:14):
nineteen sixty eight. It was either you know, South Lake
Tahoe Linen Company, it was gas stations, tow truck driver,
like for somebody as intelligent who had literally designed a
water waste removal treatment machine for nuclear power with General
(20:35):
Electric in San Jose to have then only held such
menial jobs like a tow truck driver or you know,
what have you. This is the first real job that
we see back. And of course it's contract security, which
that always takes me back to CIA individuals who are
hired based on contracts for security purposes, which usually kind
(21:00):
of time out at some point. It's not like it's
a permanent position with the company. You're on a contract
through another company. Does anybody know anything about Pinkerton Security?
Speaker 5 (21:11):
They've been around forever. They started out government related detectives
that they fought. They they had to shootout with the
with the people in West Virginia over the unionizing of
the minors. And then also they were involved in the
hunt for some outlaws of the Dalton Gang and different
(21:36):
different outlaws and in different areas of Minnesota and other
areas like that. So they're kind of a contract agents.
Were like the FBI about a pre FBI actually, and
they've been around since eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
Point out too the thing Caesar, who a lot of
people think shot Robert Kennedy was a contract uh security
guard as well.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
You know I remember when right Harriet.
Speaker 5 (22:10):
And he do as a security guard who did d
in season the main security guard the closest to Robert F.
Kenney the night he was murdered.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
And he's also affiliated with monsters in Vegas and with
a lot of Howard Hughes's people.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Of course, what did I even question what security was like?
Speaker 5 (22:38):
Gosh, and that was ever Jack. That's just right up
his alley to be have that type of position. So
it was more than just being a you know, a
night watchman. There's more than that, and a lot of
these other meningial jobs. And the menial is the perfect
word I think covers too, just to throw people off track.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Well, yeah, and you're not necessarily needed at any given time.
You can take off on whatever you need to do
and not be missed.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
And it's all about location with these menial positions.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Right right close to the freeway as he can get
on and go. Did you have anything to add to
that Pinkerton stuff?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
There, Harriet, Well, all I know is in the upcoming
in nineteen ninety. There was video that was released several
years ago on the security guard that was at where
they were staging the the murder murder, the robbery of
(23:45):
the of the Isabella Stuart Garden Museums. And I believe
that their computer systems were Hewlett Packard. And when I
saw the guy in the video, it looked like Jack
and wearing a security guard uniform. They never they never
really released information on that person. It was twenty five
(24:07):
years later. But add to it that it was almost
like he's getting in practice for that stage caper.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Gotcha well, And I want to remind everybody too that
a lot of the I forty five and the Texas
murders that were occurring, there was indications that eye witnesses
had seen people that looked seeing the suspect who appeared
to be in some type of a uniform, like a
security guard uniform or something like that, which I thought
that was extremely interesting because it ties into that same
(24:40):
timeframe in which Jack is, you know, actively working as
a security guard. Thus he would have the access to
the uniforms. He's constantly making trips back and forth to
Texas for his mother, especially from eighty three to I
want to I think she passed in ninety seven, ninety.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
No, maybe that was normal, something like that was in
the nineties. Yeah, right.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Well, and also when I first started this case and
Dennis had told me what Jack had had been doing
for work, he stated that he was a security guard
for Hewlett Packard, and of course, you know, finding out
that it was contract security afterwards was through his his
probation records, because he obviously had gotten that assault with
(25:27):
the deadly weapon which we're just about to talk about here,
and and still was able to get this job as
a security guard for Hewlett Packard. So I just remember
at the time my mentor saying to me that, oh, no,
a lowly security guard could never be the Zodiac. He's
not intelligent enough. Well he did not know obviously, well,
(25:47):
or maybe he did know. And the reason why he
was trying to deter me and you know, put me
throw me off off track was in fact that Jack was.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
So much more than just a security guard.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
That might have been what he was doing at the
time that Dennis, you know, remembered everything that was going
on with his mom and up to the point that
his mom died. But that wasn't all that Jack was, clearly,
and we've we've been able to sort that out and
show who Jack was through all of his own paperwork.
That brings us to our next murder in Texas on
January fifteenth and nineteen eighty three. And again, remember we're
(26:22):
still not sure about the absolute time frame in which
Jack shows back up, but we're about to show here
in nineteen eighty three at least where we can show
that he's back in California. But on January fifteenth and
nineteen eighty three, we had a seventy year old Lee
Leslie and a fifty seven year old Raymond Mitchell murdered
at the twenty seven thousand block of Dry Creek and Magnolia, Texas.
(26:45):
Both men had been known to meet other men in
the Houston area and welcome them to visit in Magnolia,
Lee in the closet of the northeast bedroom and Mitchell
in the closet of the southeast bedroom. Both had been
beaten and stabbed to death. Lee's maroon nineteen seventy eight
Pontiac was missed scene, and the car was then found
on February eighth of nineteen eighty three and the nineteen
hundred block of Indian Street in Houston. So here we
(27:08):
have another, you know, set of unsolved murders. We have
a vehicle that is taken and has subsequently found some
distance away from the actual crime scene, which again we've
talked about this happening in a lot of these cases.
January twentieth of nineteen eighty three, the FBI receives word
from a psychic that the Atlanta, Georgia murders are related
(27:28):
to the recent Tampa, Florida murders. Again I'm not I'm
not sure what the Tampa, Florida murders are, but they
actually did the FBI did find that the Florida murders
had occurred. So i'd put in here it is important
because in a few months, just in a couple months
from here, we're going to actually see letters that are
written to Jacksonville, Florida, that are in the FOYA files
(27:49):
from the FBI in regards to the Zodiac cases. On
February twenty first of nineteen eighty three, twenty eight year
old Teresa Brignoni is killed in South Lake Shore Drive, Conro, Texas.
She left Laporte, Texas, and departed for Conrod at about
nine to fifteen pm. She was last seen driving her
(28:09):
nineteen eighty one Dots in two hundred XS SX Honor.
About February twenty seventh of nineteen eighty three, the MCSO
began receiving calls about an abandoned vehicle at the end
of South Lake Shore Drive in the McRae Lakes subdivision
off of FM fourteen eighty four in Conroe, MSc SOO
(28:29):
deputies subsequently checked the car, discovered that it belonged to Brignoni,
and found Brignoni's dead body in the trunk, and autopsy
revealed that she had been suffocated. There was no evidence
of sexual assault or robbery, so this would be an
interesting one to check into and find out exactly.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
I mean, it sounds to.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Me that what you were saying about Robert abel and
his murders is that he was sexually deviant with these
girls as well.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, I don't think that, well, yes, yes and no,
but then he would go crazy and chop off their hands,
look them up, do really bad, really bad things, So
it's probably I gotta tell you, it sounds like it
could be the work of him, because he was right
in that area. He worked on property at League City,
(29:20):
or at least he did, you know, the the nessa
horseman able, you know, the property in that area, So
anything right now is possible.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Well, I get interested in their murders when it's when
it says there's no sexual assault or robbery, you know,
I mean, what would be the purpose of killing somebody
if there was nothing that you could achieve from them?
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Janice Joplin, it could if she's saying Janice Joplin tunes,
I mean, it seems that that was something that set
them off, So that could be possible. Knowledge of Dannis Joplin,
Avenger Flori Okay, you gotcha.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
Zobia murder, there was no sex involved, and know what
robbery involved?
Speaker 4 (30:10):
Just killing right right?
Speaker 3 (30:12):
And that's when I zero in, probably more so in
any of the unsolved murders that we talk about. It's
almost as if you can take a look at them
and some of these and going in no, probably not,
and then others that you go, well, this probably should
be looked at. Who was she, who was her parents,
who was she affiliated with? What was she doing for work?
Speaker 5 (30:31):
You know?
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Why why was she suffocated? I mean, it seems like
that's a that's a we don't want you to talk.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Type thing, you know, I mean, h.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
All right.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
That brings us to our next murder in Texas, which
happened on March seventeenth, nineteen eighty three. Laura Marie Purchase
on League Line Road, Conroe, Texas at approximately three am
and MCSO patrol deputy observed the fire earning just inside
the woods along the northbound service road of I forty
five at League Line Road. The dead body of an
(31:06):
unidentified white female was found within the fire, which had
recently been set, and autopsy determined that she had died
from strangulation and the fire sat within the accelerant OH.
She died from strangulation and the fire OH was set
with an accelerant. Self professed serial killer Henry Lee Lucas
(31:26):
subsequently confessed to the crime along with several others in
Montgomery County.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
In nineteen eighty.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Three, Lucas had confessed to approximately six hundred murders, with
about two hundred cleared across the United States in nineteen
eighty six. The victim was later positively identified as Laura
Marie Purchase after her fingerprints were match Purchase was last
known to have been in Houston, Texas on March fifth. Now, Houston,
Texas is definitely where we know that is the general
(31:52):
area that Jack's mother is in at this point. On
March fifth, nineteen eighty three, she was living with a
man named Howard or Howie, who played in a band
called Malibu. Lucas died in prison in two thousand and one.
After his death, sentence was commuted to life. Lucas had
recanted his confessions and it is believed he is not
responsible for most of the crimes he'd confessed to. Recent
(32:15):
DNA testing of semen from Purchase's body has been conducted
by MCSO cold case detectives, eliminating Lucas from the DNA
Bingo Bango Boingo. I've been waiting for one of these
top pop up.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
When Lucas confessed, did they stop investigating? Who really did? It?
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Is fact the documentary that I saw the Texas Rangers
were feeding him with information allowing them to close. Like
it says up here two hundred. They attempted to clear
two hundred murders across the United States on Henry Lee
Lucas alone, and most of them were found to be
that he wasn't even he couldn't possibly have even a
(32:59):
bet there to commit those crimes. He was just being
forced bent that information by the Texas Rangers who were
attempting to clear the books of a bunch of unsolved murders. Now,
why would they care to do this? Why would they
care to close out other murders across the United States
that have no bearing on their jurisdiction or their their
state or otherwise unless they were doing it for a group,
(33:22):
doing it to clear these murders off the books.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
Yeah, that's the opposite of what a law enforcement officer
should be doing, right.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
And in that documentary, it turned out that an attorney
of one of the cases that was looking to be
cleared by Henry Lee Lucas's admitting to having killed he
found out that Henry Lee Lucas couldn't possibly have even
been in that area. And when he tried to express this,
not only was he attacked by law enforcement, but the IRS.
(33:54):
They had i RS agents running around to other attorneys
in town of this particular DA trying to get them
to flip on him and say that he had done
something you know, unethical and moral, illegal, whatever it was,
and basically ran this man through the ringer just because
he was trying to show and prove that Henry Lucas
was not responsible for the murder in his jurisdiction. So
(34:14):
you tell me how skinny you got to get in
order to keep this quiet hush hush, that you're gonna
literally sick the I R s on somebody in order
to try and achieve your agenda of successfully closing these cases.
Speaker 5 (34:28):
Right, and go after the one guy who's still trying
to find out the truth.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Right.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Yes, to me, it's like politics all over again.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
You know.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
The one hundred and two sides.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Around the Clintons is all in order obviously to keep
everything hush hush. And then they are also were reportedly
phenomenal for using the I R s as their watchdogs, right,
you know, so very very crazy either way, here he
is Lucas is actually confessed to a crime he didn't commit,
and years later the DNA.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
Shows that it wasn't possibly him.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Now that does tell us, though, that this victim was
sexually assaulted. So again, this may be right up the
road of Robert Abel as you were saying, Harriet, rather
than it being Jack and Zodiac nineteen seventy nine sex
industry victim and witness against organized crime, Tammy Vincent as
was also set on fire with an accelerant. So we
(35:27):
are seeing some commonalities there. And of course we know
that the Zodiac did say that he had he had
used fire in some of his mos so it doesn't
necessarily I think that he was likely responsible for Tammy Vincent,
don't you, Harriet.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Just I'm just listening. But yeah, by fire, by rope,
by gun, by knife, right, I mean, he may have
just a ton of information on this stuff, you know, right, right, right, right.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Oh, So Tammy Vincent, I think was the one from
Washington that was in witness protection in California in seventy nine.
So she was in the sex industry, and she was
a victim and a witness against organized crime, and she
comes up dead in this particular fashion or manner that
we see occurs here with Laura Marie Purchase April eighteenth
(36:24):
of nineteen eighty three. Now, this one, I want to
say is likely not been committed by the Zodiac. The
two thousand and five finale letter indicates that he did
not have anything to do with killing Hispanics or Chinese,
simply just the women with brown hair that looked like her,
as we would call it. I believe that was out
of the Sherry Joe Bates confession letter. But there was
(36:45):
definitely a type. And if you follow many of the
females in the procession of these murders, you will see
that there's definitely a type. And again that helps us
to show that there's a possibility that Jack or the
Zodiac was responsible for those murders. This particular murder on
April eighteenth, and nineteen eighty three, sixteen year old Laura
(37:07):
gene donnez FM one forty nine, seven miles north of Montgomery, Texas.
At approximately one pm, an oil field worker observed the
fire burning in.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
A wooded area near a logging.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Road, approximately four hundred yards west of FM one forty nine.
The dead body of an unidentified white female was found
in the fire, and MCSO deputies recalled the fire had
been set with what appeared to be a road flare.
In an autopsy, root field that she had been strangled.
So now this ema was just as identical pretty much
to that of Laura Murray Purchase. So we've got strangulation
(37:40):
and we've got set on fire. The fire had been
set with what appeared to be a road flare, and
an autopsy revealed that she had been strangled. The victim
was soon identified as Donnez, sixteen years of age, who
had last been seen walking away from a residence in
the thirty five hundred block of Raymond Street.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Houston, ten Axis.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Donna is reportedly left to by a Hamburger at a
nearby restaurant. Now call me silly, but I'm not thinking
that Donnez is a white last name.
Speaker 5 (38:11):
No, I think it's mechto right.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
And she doesn't look yeah, yeah, yeah, she looks Hispanic.
So when it says white female, now we can see
how sometimes this information is, you know, produced in a
manner that isn't exactly completely true. But since we do
see and and in that same letter, the two thousand
and five finale letter, not only does the suspect take
(38:38):
credit for many crimes, including the Zodiac stuff, he indicates
that he knows that there are other people that are
committing murders in the Texas area. Don't blame him for them,
but there is somebody else that's killing people too, And
he is not the one that's responsible for the Hispanics
in the Chinese or however he puts it in that
particular communication. But that communication also goes on to speak
(39:00):
about Robert Abel not being the blue devil that the
fuzz is looking for. So it's interesting to note that
while he is talking about murders that he knows of,
including Laura Miller, which is Tim Miller's daughter, we're going
to see that here in this next year, but that
he's quite like the Zodiac, don't blame me for this
(39:20):
because I'm not doing this, but I have done this,
and you're not looking for this person for this. So
he's giving that inside information and probably knows who these
other murderers are that are operating at the same time
he is. He calls it in the eighties series, so
you know he's not the only person killing girls in
the eighties series. May thirteenth of nineteen eighty three says
(39:46):
fifteen to twenty two years of age, I guess was
an estimated age of an unidentified white female at the
seventy six truck stop on a Highway fifty nine at
FM fourteen eighty five, New Katie, Texas at approximately seven
thirty five am. MCSO deputies responded to a wooded area
behind the seventy six truck stop where school children had
(40:06):
found the decomposing body of an unidentified white female. The
location of the body was positioned in the area where
tractor trailers normally parked, and autopsy revealed that she had
been killed by two blows to the head, which resulted
in skull fractures.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
The victim was.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Yeah, I copying a paste with a lot of this information.
So this is somebody else's, you know, typing, and I'm
as I'm reading it. I'm just trying to do it straight,
like mcso, it's not oh, it should have been the
capital letter O. Autopsy revealed that she had been killed
(40:45):
by two blows the head. The victim was described as
fall It was fifteen to twenty years of age, fifty
nine inches in length. She was wearing shades Designer blue jeans,
a tan Wrangler long sleeved ten o'clock T shirt, and
white panties. Recently, mcso, see there it is again. MCS
(41:05):
cold case detective submitted potential DNA from victims remains to
be entered into the Missing Unidentified Person's DNA database. Today,
insufficient DNA has been obtained in order to enter a
profile into codis for this particular unidentified white female, so
she will likely continue to be unidentified. July eighteenth of
(41:29):
nineteen eighty three. Here is one of the Jacksonville, Florida letters.
I do not have a copy of this letter. I'm
not sure if you have seen this one, Harriet, but
it says I know your and it's postmark Kalama Zoo.
Oh so it's a postmark Kalamazoo, Michigan four nine zero,
But it doesn't give the rest of the ZIP code.
(41:50):
But it was sent to Jacksonville, Florida, and it was
a one page hand printed letter. Appears as though it
is written in all capital letters based on the FBI
foy A cable. And then I wrote in here as
a note, remember Oakland County child burners ended just a
few years back, and now there is purportedly a cereal
spree in Florida. And of course we have that psychic
(42:11):
that we just talked about that was making a connection
between the Atlanta murders and the current murders in in Florida.
Have you seen this particular communication or heard of it,
the one that went to Jacksonville, Florida.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
No, but I could take a look at it, but
off the top of my head, it may have something
to do with the yakuza and the missing missing children,
some of them that became other people. And uh let's see, Oh,
the Finder's cult also, so there would be probably that
(42:47):
he's giving information maybe on that. Yeah, I was, I
guess that's.
Speaker 4 (42:55):
Huh and of course.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Go ahead, keep going. Sorry, no, no, I was going
to say that there was a yukuza guy that was
living in Florida. I'm trying to remember his name, but
it's showing up in the National Center Missing and Exploited
Children databases for the for the Milk carton Kids.
Speaker 4 (43:23):
Yakuza.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
Oh it's and they hate this. So my apologies to
the Yukuza, which is an organized cribe Japanese style. They're
considered to be like the Japanese mafiya. They don't like
to be called that, but they are just.
Speaker 5 (43:43):
There there, trained killers with weapons and martial arts and
things like that.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Yeah, and uh so they are very very much along
the the description of what you would see about the mafia,
the bobs or is the gangsters. So they traffic and
people traffic in drugs, traffic and I think even ort.
So anyways, it was a.
Speaker 5 (44:12):
Great Robert mitchm film from the seventies called The Yakuza,
and it takes place in Japan, and it's really if
you're interested, gotcha.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
I just finished watching the Siicario movies.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Well I'm watching the first one now, but I've watched
the second one first, and they had indicated that human
trafficking was far more lucrative because you don't have to plant, propagate,
process or do anything like you have to with drugs,
and that one trip of people was more profitable than
(44:49):
a kilo of cocaine. So at a certain point over
to human trafficking was obviously making them far more money
than hustling in the drugs and having to you know, grow,
process and package, distribute and all of the other things.
So that makes that extremely interesting. But it seems like
(45:09):
human trafficking is pretty much in just about every culture.
There's somebody that is, you know, taking advantage. It is
completely and most of us don't even think about this
on a daily basis. I mean, I probably could have
gone through life without ever even thinking twice about human trafficking.
Speaker 4 (45:27):
You very rarely ever hear anything about it.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
It's not like there's a lot of propaganda telling people
to keep an eye out or report, you know, suspicious
activity or any of this stuff. Right, well, and I
did read this.
Speaker 4 (45:41):
Ah well, I did.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
I had this out of order, so evidently I read
this last week. This is where the Jack has come
back home. He is supposed to be at work, but
Dennis's mom calls Hewlett Packard and they say, nope, he's
been gone. He left early today. He gets home and
tells Dennis's mom that she or that he had worked overtime,
(46:08):
which was not consistent with what she had already known
because she had called in to Hewlett Packard. And thus
Jack went absolutely berserk and attempted to assault the family members,
I believe with a hammer. Let's see her mom talked
to the bus, ran into the kitchen. We were making sure.
Jack flung the hot water towards us, and then let's see,
(46:32):
rip the screen out of the window, helped his sister out.
He came in with a gun. Evidently he was gonna
Dennis believed that had he been in there, that he
would have or had they been in the room when
Jack came in, that he would have shot them. But
basically a few hours later, Jack was arrested in charge
with assault with a deadly weapon and eventually Jack was
able to have the charges reduced to a misdemeanor. How
(46:54):
do you how do you try to kill somebody and
get that reduced to a misdemeanor Nolan Good.
Speaker 5 (47:00):
Lawyer, thirty four filies and not do any turn.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
I mean, honestly, it seems like, you know, a little
smack on the hand.
Speaker 4 (47:20):
They're a little smacky smack.
Speaker 3 (47:23):
This is actually where I showed everybody that he had
bonded out under Torrents, which is again not something you
would typically see.
Speaker 4 (47:31):
The bond needs.
Speaker 3 (47:33):
To match the identification card in order for you to
be released. So if he was released on this bond
and it was not typed up correctly and had the
wrong name, and then the assertion is is that Jack
had an identification or something to that effect that allowed
him to be released based on this name. And this
would also support why we did not find any information
(47:54):
when the private investigators ran background checks on Jack and
didn't find any criminal activity because does not come up
underneath Jack's information at all. Let's see August nineteenth of
nineteen eighty three, Elizabeth Shoemate, Joanne Brown and fran Ivy
are killed at the sixteen thousand and seven Memorial in Texas.
(48:17):
All three were shot in the head. They attempted to
tying up a victim with a cord from Venetian blinds.
And then, of course Monday August twenty second. So I'm
thinking personally that these three. I don't know if you
have any information on these three. This may very well
be another one of Robert Abeles's doings in your belief, Harriet,
because this happens on August nineteenth of nineteen eighty three,
(48:39):
and on Monday, August twenty second, nineteen eighty three. Jack
is being released on bonds, so he was likely already
in jail when those particular murders happened.
Speaker 5 (48:48):
That a picture we're actually like, Jack looks like what true?
The author of Truelan Cavoni.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
Oh you know what brought me is those mobster looking glasses.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
You know you know what I mean? Like once you see.
Speaker 5 (49:11):
Wrote the book called it Killed Cold Blood about some
murders that happened in the Midwest.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
Huh, just interesting there, Yeah, it was some big old glasses.
Though it reminds me of something I saw off the Irishman.
So anyway, So Jack is said to have been given
thirty days, but knowing the system, he got out on
good behavior, and of course we do see that he's
handling a few things for I don't know if they
(49:40):
gave him time when they when they convicted him and
gave him a sentence. Is it is it common that
sometimes they will allow time for you to clear up
any personal things that you need to do before turning
yourself in to go to jail.
Speaker 5 (49:55):
Nolan, Yeah, that happens. It depends on the gravity of
the current.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
Okay, so it said he was given sixty days, but
I believe that in this he'd only done thirty days,
based on at least the information that we're going to
go through and talk about. I actually thought we were
going to get into this particular very graphic pictures. But
I think I'm going to hold up because it is
ten fifty and we have actually ran out of time.
So I'm thanking you guys for being here. Everybody, have
(50:22):
a wonderful weekend, and we will see you next Friday.
Speaker 4 (50:25):
Sorry to cut you all off.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
Bye.
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,
professional service, or any advice.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You should seek the services.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Good Morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
I'd like to to the show today. Nolan del Campo,
Good morning, everybody, Good morning, and Harriet souchet Ye have
good morning, Good morning.
Speaker 4 (01:12):
I'm actually going to start with you today.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
We talked about a week and a half ago about
Joan Webster, who was murdered in Boston, Massachusetts, on November
twenty eighth of nineteen eighty one, and I had put
in here that I wanted to research this slide in
regards to the fifty megahertz screech, which I now don't
even know what my notes were about. I do show
that there were some letters that were mailed to Cambridge, Massachusetts,
(01:38):
and I think that I found those in the Foio file,
and of course they indicated that there was a cipher
in those particular communications. And you know which ones I'm
talking about, right, Harriet.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Yeah, and I have to locate that cipher. I worked
on that one a while ago.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Oh okay, so we're going to talk about a different
a different cipher today then, right.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
In regards to Joan Webster, it's if.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
I remember correctly, you were asking me to do something
or see if I can finish solving something, and I
kept on finding the Santa Claus card. So and then
everybody and their grandmother says it has something to do
with Joan Webster. So yeah, I guess we'll take it
from there. Okay, work on it.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Well, I didn't actually pull up a copy of that
particular postcard, but we know that postcards are definitely within
the zodiacs realm. He was phenomenal for our infamous I
guess if you will, for sending out postcards like the
Lancaster and Palmdale postcard.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
In regards to.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
JFK and the thirteenth Victim postcard. We saw postcards back
in the Black Dahl Yea. It seemed to be a
running theme in the communications, so I would not discount that,
and it would be interesting to see that particulular communication.
Do you know whether it was handwritten or if it
was tied. How was that one posed? Oh, you know,
(03:07):
it was hand hand written. And the card itself, the
Santa Claus postcard was in a it was a window
envelope stationary thing, and then it and it had Yeah,
then it had four stamps on it. Once I saw that,
because when I saw it initially, I said, I'm not
(03:28):
going to get anything out of this. Who keeps on
thinking that this is from the zodiac and they must
have killed Joan.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
So anyways, then I saw the four stamps. Three of
them had the killer, which is a line only set
of the postmark. Then I took it from there because
I did get a lot. I get a lot, oh,
just identifying everything about the stamps. Yeah, I'd identify everything
about the four stamps. And then there was a couple
(03:58):
of these mysterious versions of Joan Webster because they were
saying it had something to do with Joan Webster because
of a name or a couple of names on the envelope.
And once I because yeah, there was a couple of
(04:19):
parts partial reactions. If I remember, right, and then it
just flowed from there and it looks like Jack was
trying to bypass Reagan again. He does alike Reagan, and
he's asking Jimmy Carter for some help in regards of
what basically they know that they have some information as
(04:41):
to what happened to Joan Webster and that he was
fearing at the end of the Saul that's saying, I'm
fearing that she lost her life off the creek, the
Chewbacca Creek. I try to remember the name of the creek.
Speaker 5 (04:56):
And then.
Speaker 2 (04:58):
There's a U shape the fight ways use safe fee
for the Santa Claus with a dot in it. If
you turn turn it a little bit, it fits the
exact location in off of the creek where they found
her remains in the nineties. Oh really has information?
Speaker 5 (05:19):
Go ahead, Nolan, Do you have a little more background
on Johan Webster, what her job was and you know.
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Any wealthy family, wealthy Yeah, well, yeah, wealthy family, and
her father worked for International Telephone and Telegraph. And when
you look into that, we'd be here for about a
week trying to describe all of what they were involved
with aerospace. They could even do phone numbers for the
(05:48):
White House. So some of this solve came out with
reducted phone numbers, the prefixes for the White House. So
and your father was So it was an interesting solve,
and it looks like they had information and they're saying
(06:10):
that it was Robert Abel and Jack was trying to
relay this information through Carter, through a series of people.
You know, just I fear that she's lost her life.
But when I saw the Robert Abel esque of it,
all of how they found her remains and that she
(06:32):
was legend and that she was off to the side
of the creek, it's very gross. I looked for the
picture of the suspect and there is a picture and
it looks like Robert Abel. Really composite. Yeah, it looks
because he looks like the composite in a circle nineteen
eighty with the beard and black hair, et cetera. Hype everything.
(06:56):
Wow you this Yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:58):
Like me to read it and you can tell us
what it means.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Oh, go for it, all right.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
So it says mister Carter six thirty thirty facsimile. So
you're saying that six thirty and thirty seconds PM facsimile?
Speaker 2 (07:14):
Is that what that's saying Woodland Drive and in the morning.
Speaker 3 (07:20):
O in the am SO fac simile Woodland Drive planes
Georgia three one seven eight zero. So that's where the
facsimile was sent to.
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Yeah. Yeah, he's trying to get information out about who
killed her.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
And it says four five six Press Mitchell photograph Harold
Genen Itt Webster father. So Harold genen Is is the father. Well,
so what's the press Mitchell photograph?
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Oh? Ben Mitchell was a press photographer. He did fairly
for his Santa Claus. But it looks like you might
have taken a few pictures they had to do with
the Republican Party in the New York area. I think.
So he was a philographer. He was a famous gotcha.
Speaker 3 (08:16):
And it says Harold Jenen Itt Webster father George RNC
nineteen seventy two, United States, prominent Americans. What does that mean?
So George is her father, not Harold jean in right.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
Yeah, Harold jenen is the top guy in international telephone
and telegraph.
Speaker 4 (08:39):
Oh that's where you go.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
Yep, there will be a candle, all right.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
So Harold jenen is obviously you're saying he's the head
of Itt and Webster's father George Republican National Committee nineteen
seventy two, United States Prominent America kins r E four
five six.
Speaker 4 (09:03):
What is that?
Speaker 2 (09:05):
That's re elect And then the prefix of four five
six is the for the White House and it's the
redacted phone number. So it's re elect to Nixon committee creep.
Speaker 4 (09:19):
So creepy.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, the committee to re Elect President Nixon.
Speaker 4 (09:27):
Re elect President Nixon.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Creep Ah.
Speaker 3 (09:30):
All right, guys, so it says Nixon won eleven sixty eight,
and it goes back to give that redacted phone number
again with the prefix of four five six, which you
said was a white House prefix.
Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah, yeah, So these trying to not give out the
White House numbers in this code. But Jimmy Carter was right.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Vice President ag New four hundred brand what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (10:04):
No, vice President Agnew And then they did something with
four hundred grand that was apparently suspected to be a
no no, so they had to take that back. But
this is all involving the International Telephone and telegraph people.
They tried to do a big donation, but they had
(10:25):
to work it out retract it. And so he's bringing
up he's recapping about those events that leads up to
knowing something about Joan Webster. What happened to you is right?
Speaker 3 (10:38):
So it goes on to say, you remember eleven twenty
seventy eight, still alive, Pope John Paul the second ab
New York City, New York see Washington stamps printed by
Bureau of Printing Engraving perforation eleven millimeter use business rep Elope.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Yeah, the prisins play envelope. Yeah, where we're where his
mother is being used as the post office in Texas.
So he's trying to recap and remind harder what had
happened recently. So he's just doing a good job about
recapping and code. Gotcha.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
And then it goes on to say, save me to
tell the truth.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
New Jersey eleven three eighty five, Joan met So you're
saying that Johan Webster is from originally from New Jersey.
Speaker 2 (11:37):
Yeah, that's her zip code. Yeah, her following.
Speaker 3 (11:42):
Gotten because this was showing that it was Boston, Massachusetts.
Speaker 4 (11:46):
How's that play in?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
Oh, she apparently for the had visited for the holidays
like round Thanksgiving and then was going back to her
college or her university Massachusetts and saying that she met
up and had a connection to Rubbert Abele bad connection.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
So yeah, Jon met Shitty Moonquest Texas killer fucker Abel
ten forty seven thirty seven what does that mean?
Speaker 2 (12:20):
That was all the numbers I had left after I
was finishing with the words, and many people said that
they saw her after ten pm, even after ten thirty pm.
So I said, well, forty seven, yeah, it's the time.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Seven, Yeah, thirty seven We're seen kissing with Robert in
bus station window. So she was seen kissing Robert Abel.
Speaker 2 (12:47):
That's what it is saying that she was seen kissing him.
And I think somehow Jack was there or his crew
was there, that they were witnessing this and trying to
flagger down. There's witnesses that said that. People said that
they didn't want her to get into this vehicle with
this guy. Long story, so looks like it.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Window and I drive eleven twenty eight eighty one out
to Chewbacco Road, mass So, Massachusetts. So it is now
indicating that so and I drive. Okay, so I saw
with Robert inbus station window and I drive eleven twenty
eight what's what's eleven twenty eighth eighty one, that's when
(13:34):
she died. I'll teach Chebacco ch E b a Cco Road,
Chebacco Road, Massachusetts.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
Damn you say her, Damn my fear of the co ed.
The pretty co ed has lost her life there.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
And that, yes, that is the completion of it. So worry,
pretty girl. Co ed lost life Creek Area seven seven
seven seven, No one is the sign off correct.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Yeah, he's doing a lot of angel numbers at that
time period. It was like every time I see some
subsequent numbers that are left, I look him up and
if it's four of seven four or three four fours,
it all means something. So he's trying to convey that
he's got spiritual help, that he's got some guidance, and
(14:29):
he's got support, and he's working.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
I want to say that in nineteen eighties, wasn't that
when he got baptized quit drinking.
Speaker 2 (14:40):
That's what I'm That's what I'm hearing. The rumor is.
All I know is he's this is now one time
period where he's working and he's with the Holy See,
which is shocking, but doing doing intel of work for them.
Speaker 3 (14:56):
When when does his post When was his postcard purportedly
sent after obviously Jim Webster past right? I mean because
it's discussing that she's already lost her life.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
I think it was reportedly early January nineteen eighty two,
very early.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
Okay, so shortly after that, all right, and I know
that he I want to say that it's eighty three
that he goes to work for Hewlett Packard because he
doesn't come back to California and reunite with Nora and
the family until I want to say, well, and we
know that they're separated during nineteen eighty two because he's
in Texas with his mom at this point on a
(15:39):
separation from Nora. So yeah, I would have to be
like eighty three is when he probably started his work
for Hewlett Packard. Okay, Well that was a very interesting soul.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
Thank you. Anything else that I wanted to add to that, Well,
I just want to thank you for I ended up.
I kept on stumbling on that damn postcard for something
else that you requested. So I said, well, it's this
is something to look at, so it's indirectly has something
(16:12):
to do with what you requested. So I said, well,
I worked on Joe Webster too. Well yeah, so anyway, so.
Speaker 3 (16:20):
Dan, yeah, loan, behold, she's in this presentation. Albeit I
was under the impression it was something maybe the Zodiac
had done. But it looks like now what you're saying
is is that that was the act of Robert Abel.
Once again, how many murders do you think that Robert
Abel committed?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
It could be dozens upon dozens. He even admitted that
he killed some and you know, butchered them in the
early early seventies, especially around seventy one. And he admitted
he was troubled, so he had the how did arrested?
(16:57):
Definitely not arrested. He was one of the top five
NASA people that got us to the moon through the rockets,
so he has all kinds of dark secrets in his head.
And you know, how was he going to get therapy
for that to help him when he's at the time
(17:18):
a national security risk. So they just didn't know what
to do with them. I think it's terrible. It sounds awful.
So and he knew he was troubled.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
We've seen troubled and bad people get away with things
because they need them, They use them their you know.
Speaker 4 (17:36):
Benefit to the higher power, I guess if you will.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
So that's not a strange thing to see people get
away with crimes that they otherwise wouldn't get away with
because they literally are either an informant or you know,
necessary to whatever.
Speaker 4 (17:52):
Cause they have going on.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I know that last weekend Lindsay mcbray had mentioned after
the show that that connection, obviously we keep running back
into NASA, especially with Robert Abel. But she had indicated
that obviously there's our tie in because NASA then to
Lockey Lockey to John Benny Ramsey, which is going to
be coming up here soon or John Ramsey. Should I say,
(18:17):
not John Benay, but her father, John Ramsey, who in
turn was you know, selling his computer software too lockeed
before all of this went down with John Benny Ramsey.
So she wanted to remind us that that connection still
kind of sits and fits quite nicely. So onto our
next slide, Doer's.
Speaker 5 (18:39):
Real Quick, Real Quick JPL Jeff Polsman Laborator is also
highly intertwined with NASA. They're one of their primary contractors,
and everybody, all the higher ups in NASA and all
the astronauts are all Freemasons, and Jack Person's form JPL
(18:59):
was a higher up and freemakes it as well as
a disciple of Elisir Crowley, Oh Dearess Malasons are all
tied up and a lot of those stuff.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
So maybe that's where they keep coming up with this
cult idea or concept that's kind of surrounding everything.
Speaker 5 (19:16):
Yeah, perhaps I know.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
That I try to steer away from that.
Speaker 5 (19:22):
Yeah, they may be tenuous, but they're there, right.
Speaker 3 (19:26):
And I know that I had always promised myself in
the middle of this investigation, and you know, examining these letters,
that I was going to steer clear of the cult aspect.
I was going to steer clear of the child aspect.
And it seems like I can't steer clear of it
because everything just keeps climbing right back down those holes
one way or another.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
Yes, can ignore the obvious sometimes.
Speaker 3 (19:51):
Or at least I shouldn't, all right, So our next
Sivee Doers believes. January nineteen eighty three, Jack is said
to begin a lengthy career with hughle Packard in Rosewelt, California,
as a sergeant on the security team contracted through Pinkerton Security.
This is the first real job Jack has had for
quite some time. Like I literally could not map out
a legitimate job for Jack for years at least since
(20:14):
nineteen sixty eight. It was either you know, South Lake
Tahoe Linen Company, it was gas stations, tow truck driver,
like for somebody as intelligent who had literally designed a
water waste removal treatment machine for nuclear power with General
(20:35):
Electric in San Jose to have then only held such
menial jobs like a tow truck driver or you know,
what have you. This is the first real job that
we see back. And of course it's contract security, which
that always takes me back to CIA individuals who are
hired based on contracts for security purposes, which usually kind
(21:00):
of time out at some point. It's not like it's
a permanent position with the company. You're on a contract
through another company. Does anybody know anything about Pinkerton Security?
Speaker 5 (21:11):
They've been around forever. They started out government related detectives
that they fought. They they had to shootout with the
with the people in West Virginia over the unionizing of
the minors. And then also they were involved in the
hunt for some outlaws of the Dalton Gang and different
(21:36):
different outlaws and in different areas of Minnesota and other
areas like that. So they're kind of a contract agents.
Were like the FBI about a pre FBI actually, and
they've been around since eighteen hundreds.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (21:53):
Point out too the thing Caesar, who a lot of
people think shot Robert Kennedy was a contract uh security
guard as well.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
You know I remember when right Harriet.
Speaker 5 (22:10):
And he do as a security guard who did d
in season the main security guard the closest to Robert F.
Kenney the night he was murdered.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Wow.
Speaker 5 (22:23):
And he's also affiliated with monsters in Vegas and with
a lot of Howard Hughes's people.
Speaker 4 (22:31):
Of course, what did I even question what security was like?
Speaker 5 (22:38):
Gosh, and that was ever Jack. That's just right up
his alley to be have that type of position. So
it was more than just being a you know, a
night watchman. There's more than that, and a lot of
these other meningial jobs. And the menial is the perfect
word I think covers too, just to throw people off track.
Speaker 3 (23:03):
Well, yeah, and you're not necessarily needed at any given time.
You can take off on whatever you need to do
and not be missed.
Speaker 5 (23:10):
And it's all about location with these menial positions.
Speaker 3 (23:13):
Right right close to the freeway as he can get
on and go. Did you have anything to add to
that Pinkerton stuff?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
There, Harriet, Well, all I know is in the upcoming
in nineteen ninety. There was video that was released several
years ago on the security guard that was at where
they were staging the the murder murder, the robbery of
(23:45):
the of the Isabella Stuart Garden Museums. And I believe
that their computer systems were Hewlett Packard. And when I
saw the guy in the video, it looked like Jack
and wearing a security guard uniform. They never they never
really released information on that person. It was twenty five
(24:07):
years later. But add to it that it was almost
like he's getting in practice for that stage caper.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Gotcha well, And I want to remind everybody too that
a lot of the I forty five and the Texas
murders that were occurring, there was indications that eye witnesses
had seen people that looked seeing the suspect who appeared
to be in some type of a uniform, like a
security guard uniform or something like that, which I thought
that was extremely interesting because it ties into that same
(24:40):
timeframe in which Jack is, you know, actively working as
a security guard. Thus he would have the access to
the uniforms. He's constantly making trips back and forth to
Texas for his mother, especially from eighty three to I
want to I think she passed in ninety seven, ninety.
Speaker 2 (24:59):
No, maybe that was normal, something like that was in
the nineties. Yeah, right.
Speaker 3 (25:05):
Well, and also when I first started this case and
Dennis had told me what Jack had had been doing
for work, he stated that he was a security guard
for Hewlett Packard, and of course, you know, finding out
that it was contract security afterwards was through his his
probation records, because he obviously had gotten that assault with
(25:27):
the deadly weapon which we're just about to talk about here,
and and still was able to get this job as
a security guard for Hewlett Packard. So I just remember
at the time my mentor saying to me that, oh, no,
a lowly security guard could never be the Zodiac. He's
not intelligent enough. Well he did not know obviously, well,
(25:47):
or maybe he did know. And the reason why he
was trying to deter me and you know, put me
throw me off off track was in fact that Jack was.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
So much more than just a security guard.
Speaker 3 (25:59):
That might have been what he was doing at the
time that Dennis, you know, remembered everything that was going
on with his mom and up to the point that
his mom died. But that wasn't all that Jack was, clearly,
and we've we've been able to sort that out and
show who Jack was through all of his own paperwork.
That brings us to our next murder in Texas on
January fifteenth and nineteen eighty three. And again, remember we're
(26:22):
still not sure about the absolute time frame in which
Jack shows back up, but we're about to show here
in nineteen eighty three at least where we can show
that he's back in California. But on January fifteenth and
nineteen eighty three, we had a seventy year old Lee
Leslie and a fifty seven year old Raymond Mitchell murdered
at the twenty seven thousand block of Dry Creek and Magnolia, Texas.
(26:45):
Both men had been known to meet other men in
the Houston area and welcome them to visit in Magnolia,
Lee in the closet of the northeast bedroom and Mitchell
in the closet of the southeast bedroom. Both had been
beaten and stabbed to death. Lee's maroon nineteen seventy eight
Pontiac was missed scene, and the car was then found
on February eighth of nineteen eighty three and the nineteen
hundred block of Indian Street in Houston. So here we
(27:08):
have another, you know, set of unsolved murders. We have
a vehicle that is taken and has subsequently found some
distance away from the actual crime scene, which again we've
talked about this happening in a lot of these cases.
January twentieth of nineteen eighty three, the FBI receives word
from a psychic that the Atlanta, Georgia murders are related
(27:28):
to the recent Tampa, Florida murders. Again I'm not I'm
not sure what the Tampa, Florida murders are, but they
actually did the FBI did find that the Florida murders
had occurred. So i'd put in here it is important
because in a few months, just in a couple months
from here, we're going to actually see letters that are
written to Jacksonville, Florida, that are in the FOYA files
(27:49):
from the FBI in regards to the Zodiac cases. On
February twenty first of nineteen eighty three, twenty eight year
old Teresa Brignoni is killed in South Lake Shore Drive, Conro, Texas.
She left Laporte, Texas, and departed for Conrod at about
nine to fifteen pm. She was last seen driving her
(28:09):
nineteen eighty one Dots in two hundred XS SX Honor.
About February twenty seventh of nineteen eighty three, the MCSO
began receiving calls about an abandoned vehicle at the end
of South Lake Shore Drive in the McRae Lakes subdivision
off of FM fourteen eighty four in Conroe, MSc SOO
(28:29):
deputies subsequently checked the car, discovered that it belonged to Brignoni,
and found Brignoni's dead body in the trunk, and autopsy
revealed that she had been suffocated. There was no evidence
of sexual assault or robbery, so this would be an
interesting one to check into and find out exactly.
Speaker 4 (28:45):
I mean, it sounds to.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Me that what you were saying about Robert abel and
his murders is that he was sexually deviant with these
girls as well.
Speaker 4 (28:54):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, I don't think that, well, yes, yes and no,
but then he would go crazy and chop off their hands,
look them up, do really bad, really bad things, So
it's probably I gotta tell you, it sounds like it
could be the work of him, because he was right
in that area. He worked on property at League City,
(29:20):
or at least he did, you know, the the nessa
horseman able, you know, the property in that area, So
anything right now is possible.
Speaker 3 (29:32):
Well, I get interested in their murders when it's when
it says there's no sexual assault or robbery, you know,
I mean, what would be the purpose of killing somebody
if there was nothing that you could achieve from them?
Speaker 2 (29:45):
Janice Joplin, it could if she's saying Janice Joplin tunes,
I mean, it seems that that was something that set
them off, So that could be possible. Knowledge of Dannis Joplin,
Avenger Flori Okay, you gotcha.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
Zobia murder, there was no sex involved, and know what
robbery involved?
Speaker 4 (30:10):
Just killing right right?
Speaker 3 (30:12):
And that's when I zero in, probably more so in
any of the unsolved murders that we talk about. It's
almost as if you can take a look at them
and some of these and going in no, probably not,
and then others that you go, well, this probably should
be looked at. Who was she, who was her parents,
who was she affiliated with? What was she doing for work?
Speaker 5 (30:31):
You know?
Speaker 3 (30:32):
Why why was she suffocated? I mean, it seems like
that's a that's a we don't want you to talk.
Speaker 4 (30:38):
Type thing, you know, I mean, h.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
All right.
Speaker 3 (30:44):
That brings us to our next murder in Texas, which
happened on March seventeenth, nineteen eighty three. Laura Marie Purchase
on League Line Road, Conroe, Texas at approximately three am
and MCSO patrol deputy observed the fire earning just inside
the woods along the northbound service road of I forty
five at League Line Road. The dead body of an
(31:06):
unidentified white female was found within the fire, which had
recently been set, and autopsy determined that she had died
from strangulation and the fire sat within the accelerant OH.
She died from strangulation and the fire OH was set
with an accelerant. Self professed serial killer Henry Lee Lucas
(31:26):
subsequently confessed to the crime along with several others in
Montgomery County.
Speaker 4 (31:30):
In nineteen eighty.
Speaker 3 (31:31):
Three, Lucas had confessed to approximately six hundred murders, with
about two hundred cleared across the United States in nineteen
eighty six. The victim was later positively identified as Laura
Marie Purchase after her fingerprints were match Purchase was last
known to have been in Houston, Texas on March fifth. Now, Houston,
Texas is definitely where we know that is the general
(31:52):
area that Jack's mother is in at this point. On
March fifth, nineteen eighty three, she was living with a
man named Howard or Howie, who played in a band
called Malibu. Lucas died in prison in two thousand and one.
After his death, sentence was commuted to life. Lucas had
recanted his confessions and it is believed he is not
responsible for most of the crimes he'd confessed to. Recent
(32:15):
DNA testing of semen from Purchase's body has been conducted
by MCSO cold case detectives, eliminating Lucas from the DNA
Bingo Bango Boingo. I've been waiting for one of these
top pop up.
Speaker 5 (32:31):
When Lucas confessed, did they stop investigating? Who really did? It?
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Is fact the documentary that I saw the Texas Rangers
were feeding him with information allowing them to close. Like
it says up here two hundred. They attempted to clear
two hundred murders across the United States on Henry Lee
Lucas alone, and most of them were found to be
that he wasn't even he couldn't possibly have even a
(32:59):
bet there to commit those crimes. He was just being
forced bent that information by the Texas Rangers who were
attempting to clear the books of a bunch of unsolved murders. Now,
why would they care to do this? Why would they
care to close out other murders across the United States
that have no bearing on their jurisdiction or their their
state or otherwise unless they were doing it for a group,
(33:22):
doing it to clear these murders off the books.
Speaker 5 (33:25):
Yeah, that's the opposite of what a law enforcement officer
should be doing, right.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
And in that documentary, it turned out that an attorney
of one of the cases that was looking to be
cleared by Henry Lee Lucas's admitting to having killed he
found out that Henry Lee Lucas couldn't possibly have even
been in that area. And when he tried to express this,
not only was he attacked by law enforcement, but the IRS.
(33:54):
They had i RS agents running around to other attorneys
in town of this particular DA trying to get them
to flip on him and say that he had done
something you know, unethical and moral, illegal, whatever it was,
and basically ran this man through the ringer just because
he was trying to show and prove that Henry Lucas
was not responsible for the murder in his jurisdiction. So
(34:14):
you tell me how skinny you got to get in
order to keep this quiet hush hush, that you're gonna
literally sick the I R s on somebody in order
to try and achieve your agenda of successfully closing these cases.
Speaker 5 (34:28):
Right, and go after the one guy who's still trying
to find out the truth.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Right.
Speaker 4 (34:34):
Yes, to me, it's like politics all over again.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
You know.
Speaker 4 (34:38):
The one hundred and two sides.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Around the Clintons is all in order obviously to keep
everything hush hush. And then they are also were reportedly
phenomenal for using the I R s as their watchdogs, right,
you know, so very very crazy either way, here he
is Lucas is actually confessed to a crime he didn't commit,
and years later the DNA.
Speaker 4 (35:03):
Shows that it wasn't possibly him.
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Now that does tell us, though, that this victim was
sexually assaulted. So again, this may be right up the
road of Robert Abel as you were saying, Harriet, rather
than it being Jack and Zodiac nineteen seventy nine sex
industry victim and witness against organized crime, Tammy Vincent as
was also set on fire with an accelerant. So we
(35:27):
are seeing some commonalities there. And of course we know
that the Zodiac did say that he had he had
used fire in some of his mos so it doesn't
necessarily I think that he was likely responsible for Tammy Vincent,
don't you, Harriet.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
Just I'm just listening. But yeah, by fire, by rope,
by gun, by knife, right, I mean, he may have
just a ton of information on this stuff, you know, right, right, right, right.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
Oh, So Tammy Vincent, I think was the one from
Washington that was in witness protection in California in seventy nine.
So she was in the sex industry, and she was
a victim and a witness against organized crime, and she
comes up dead in this particular fashion or manner that
we see occurs here with Laura Marie Purchase April eighteenth
(36:24):
of nineteen eighty three. Now, this one, I want to
say is likely not been committed by the Zodiac. The
two thousand and five finale letter indicates that he did
not have anything to do with killing Hispanics or Chinese,
simply just the women with brown hair that looked like her,
as we would call it. I believe that was out
of the Sherry Joe Bates confession letter. But there was
(36:45):
definitely a type. And if you follow many of the
females in the procession of these murders, you will see
that there's definitely a type. And again that helps us
to show that there's a possibility that Jack or the
Zodiac was responsible for those murders. This particular murder on
April eighteenth, and nineteen eighty three, sixteen year old Laura
(37:07):
gene donnez FM one forty nine, seven miles north of Montgomery, Texas.
At approximately one pm, an oil field worker observed the
fire burning in.
Speaker 4 (37:16):
A wooded area near a logging.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Road, approximately four hundred yards west of FM one forty nine.
The dead body of an unidentified white female was found
in the fire, and MCSO deputies recalled the fire had
been set with what appeared to be a road flare.
In an autopsy, root field that she had been strangled.
So now this ema was just as identical pretty much
to that of Laura Murray Purchase. So we've got strangulation
(37:40):
and we've got set on fire. The fire had been
set with what appeared to be a road flare, and
an autopsy revealed that she had been strangled. The victim
was soon identified as Donnez, sixteen years of age, who
had last been seen walking away from a residence in
the thirty five hundred block of Raymond Street.
Speaker 4 (37:59):
Houston, ten Axis.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Donna is reportedly left to by a Hamburger at a
nearby restaurant. Now call me silly, but I'm not thinking
that Donnez is a white last name.
Speaker 5 (38:11):
No, I think it's mechto right.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
And she doesn't look yeah, yeah, yeah, she looks Hispanic.
So when it says white female, now we can see
how sometimes this information is, you know, produced in a
manner that isn't exactly completely true. But since we do
see and and in that same letter, the two thousand
and five finale letter, not only does the suspect take
(38:38):
credit for many crimes, including the Zodiac stuff, he indicates
that he knows that there are other people that are
committing murders in the Texas area. Don't blame him for them,
but there is somebody else that's killing people too, And
he is not the one that's responsible for the Hispanics
in the Chinese or however he puts it in that
particular communication. But that communication also goes on to speak
(39:00):
about Robert Abel not being the blue devil that the
fuzz is looking for. So it's interesting to note that
while he is talking about murders that he knows of,
including Laura Miller, which is Tim Miller's daughter, we're going
to see that here in this next year, but that
he's quite like the Zodiac, don't blame me for this
(39:20):
because I'm not doing this, but I have done this,
and you're not looking for this person for this. So
he's giving that inside information and probably knows who these
other murderers are that are operating at the same time
he is. He calls it in the eighties series, so
you know he's not the only person killing girls in
the eighties series. May thirteenth of nineteen eighty three says
(39:46):
fifteen to twenty two years of age, I guess was
an estimated age of an unidentified white female at the
seventy six truck stop on a Highway fifty nine at
FM fourteen eighty five, New Katie, Texas at approximately seven
thirty five am. MCSO deputies responded to a wooded area
behind the seventy six truck stop where school children had
(40:06):
found the decomposing body of an unidentified white female. The
location of the body was positioned in the area where
tractor trailers normally parked, and autopsy revealed that she had
been killed by two blows to the head, which resulted
in skull fractures.
Speaker 4 (40:21):
The victim was.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
Yeah, I copying a paste with a lot of this information.
So this is somebody else's, you know, typing, and I'm
as I'm reading it. I'm just trying to do it straight,
like mcso, it's not oh, it should have been the
capital letter O. Autopsy revealed that she had been killed
(40:45):
by two blows the head. The victim was described as
fall It was fifteen to twenty years of age, fifty
nine inches in length. She was wearing shades Designer blue jeans,
a tan Wrangler long sleeved ten o'clock T shirt, and
white panties. Recently, mcso, see there it is again. MCS
(41:05):
cold case detective submitted potential DNA from victims remains to
be entered into the Missing Unidentified Person's DNA database. Today,
insufficient DNA has been obtained in order to enter a
profile into codis for this particular unidentified white female, so
she will likely continue to be unidentified. July eighteenth of
(41:29):
nineteen eighty three. Here is one of the Jacksonville, Florida letters.
I do not have a copy of this letter. I'm
not sure if you have seen this one, Harriet, but
it says I know your and it's postmark Kalama Zoo.
Oh so it's a postmark Kalamazoo, Michigan four nine zero,
But it doesn't give the rest of the ZIP code.
(41:50):
But it was sent to Jacksonville, Florida, and it was
a one page hand printed letter. Appears as though it
is written in all capital letters based on the FBI
foy A cable. And then I wrote in here as
a note, remember Oakland County child burners ended just a
few years back, and now there is purportedly a cereal
spree in Florida. And of course we have that psychic
(42:11):
that we just talked about that was making a connection
between the Atlanta murders and the current murders in in Florida.
Have you seen this particular communication or heard of it,
the one that went to Jacksonville, Florida.
Speaker 2 (42:25):
No, but I could take a look at it, but
off the top of my head, it may have something
to do with the yakuza and the missing missing children,
some of them that became other people. And uh let's see, Oh,
the Finder's cult also, so there would be probably that
(42:47):
he's giving information maybe on that. Yeah, I was, I
guess that's.
Speaker 4 (42:55):
Huh and of course.
Speaker 2 (43:00):
Go ahead, keep going. Sorry, no, no, I was going
to say that there was a yukuza guy that was
living in Florida. I'm trying to remember his name, but
it's showing up in the National Center Missing and Exploited
Children databases for the for the Milk carton Kids.
Speaker 4 (43:23):
Yakuza.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
Oh it's and they hate this. So my apologies to
the Yukuza, which is an organized cribe Japanese style. They're
considered to be like the Japanese mafiya. They don't like
to be called that, but they are just.
Speaker 5 (43:43):
There there, trained killers with weapons and martial arts and
things like that.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
Yeah, and uh so they are very very much along
the the description of what you would see about the mafia,
the bobs or is the gangsters. So they traffic and
people traffic in drugs, traffic and I think even ort.
So anyways, it was a.
Speaker 5 (44:12):
Great Robert mitchm film from the seventies called The Yakuza,
and it takes place in Japan, and it's really if
you're interested, gotcha.
Speaker 4 (44:23):
I just finished watching the Siicario movies.
Speaker 3 (44:28):
Well I'm watching the first one now, but I've watched
the second one first, and they had indicated that human
trafficking was far more lucrative because you don't have to plant, propagate,
process or do anything like you have to with drugs,
and that one trip of people was more profitable than
(44:49):
a kilo of cocaine. So at a certain point over
to human trafficking was obviously making them far more money
than hustling in the drugs and having to you know, grow,
process and package, distribute and all of the other things.
So that makes that extremely interesting. But it seems like
(45:09):
human trafficking is pretty much in just about every culture.
There's somebody that is, you know, taking advantage. It is
completely and most of us don't even think about this
on a daily basis. I mean, I probably could have
gone through life without ever even thinking twice about human trafficking.
Speaker 4 (45:27):
You very rarely ever hear anything about it.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
It's not like there's a lot of propaganda telling people
to keep an eye out or report, you know, suspicious
activity or any of this stuff. Right, well, and I
did read this.
Speaker 4 (45:41):
Ah well, I did.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
I had this out of order, so evidently I read
this last week. This is where the Jack has come
back home. He is supposed to be at work, but
Dennis's mom calls Hewlett Packard and they say, nope, he's
been gone. He left early today. He gets home and
tells Dennis's mom that she or that he had worked overtime,
(46:08):
which was not consistent with what she had already known
because she had called in to Hewlett Packard. And thus
Jack went absolutely berserk and attempted to assault the family members,
I believe with a hammer. Let's see her mom talked
to the bus, ran into the kitchen. We were making sure.
Jack flung the hot water towards us, and then let's see,
(46:32):
rip the screen out of the window, helped his sister out.
He came in with a gun. Evidently he was gonna
Dennis believed that had he been in there, that he
would have or had they been in the room when
Jack came in, that he would have shot them. But
basically a few hours later, Jack was arrested in charge
with assault with a deadly weapon and eventually Jack was
able to have the charges reduced to a misdemeanor. How
(46:54):
do you how do you try to kill somebody and
get that reduced to a misdemeanor Nolan Good.
Speaker 5 (47:00):
Lawyer, thirty four filies and not do any turn.
Speaker 4 (47:14):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 3 (47:17):
I mean, honestly, it seems like, you know, a little
smack on the hand.
Speaker 4 (47:20):
They're a little smacky smack.
Speaker 3 (47:23):
This is actually where I showed everybody that he had
bonded out under Torrents, which is again not something you
would typically see.
Speaker 4 (47:31):
The bond needs.
Speaker 3 (47:33):
To match the identification card in order for you to
be released. So if he was released on this bond
and it was not typed up correctly and had the
wrong name, and then the assertion is is that Jack
had an identification or something to that effect that allowed
him to be released based on this name. And this
would also support why we did not find any information
(47:54):
when the private investigators ran background checks on Jack and
didn't find any criminal activity because does not come up
underneath Jack's information at all. Let's see August nineteenth of
nineteen eighty three, Elizabeth Shoemate, Joanne Brown and fran Ivy
are killed at the sixteen thousand and seven Memorial in Texas.
(48:17):
All three were shot in the head. They attempted to
tying up a victim with a cord from Venetian blinds.
And then, of course Monday August twenty second. So I'm
thinking personally that these three. I don't know if you
have any information on these three. This may very well
be another one of Robert Abeles's doings in your belief, Harriet,
because this happens on August nineteenth of nineteen eighty three,
(48:39):
and on Monday, August twenty second, nineteen eighty three. Jack
is being released on bonds, so he was likely already
in jail when those particular murders happened.
Speaker 5 (48:48):
That a picture we're actually like, Jack looks like what true?
The author of Truelan Cavoni.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
Oh you know what brought me is those mobster looking glasses.
Speaker 2 (49:06):
You know you know what I mean? Like once you see.
Speaker 5 (49:11):
Wrote the book called it Killed Cold Blood about some
murders that happened in the Midwest.
Speaker 3 (49:17):
Huh, just interesting there, Yeah, it was some big old glasses.
Though it reminds me of something I saw off the Irishman.
So anyway, So Jack is said to have been given
thirty days, but knowing the system, he got out on
good behavior, and of course we do see that he's
handling a few things for I don't know if they
(49:40):
gave him time when they when they convicted him and
gave him a sentence. Is it is it common that
sometimes they will allow time for you to clear up
any personal things that you need to do before turning
yourself in to go to jail.
Speaker 5 (49:55):
Nolan, Yeah, that happens. It depends on the gravity of
the current.
Speaker 3 (50:00):
Okay, so it said he was given sixty days, but
I believe that in this he'd only done thirty days,
based on at least the information that we're going to
go through and talk about. I actually thought we were
going to get into this particular very graphic pictures. But
I think I'm going to hold up because it is
ten fifty and we have actually ran out of time.
So I'm thanking you guys for being here. Everybody, have
(50:22):
a wonderful weekend, and we will see you next Friday.
Speaker 4 (50:25):
Sorry to cut you all off.
Speaker 3 (50:26):
Bye.
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