April 25, 2025 • 50 mins
Texas sees more murders in 1984. Jack is finally showing that as of September 1984 he is officially claiming to be working for Hewlett Packard and that he is at the address that Nora and the kids are even though they are divorced. Tim Miller’s daughter is killed on the same date this report is filled out, yet this report is not mailed for 8 months to probation. Dennis writes about Jack’s use of hypnosis, and Harriette has another solve for us.
Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
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Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/hit-the-road-jack-finding-the-zodiac--5297837/support.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You should seek the services.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Good Morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
I'd like to welcome Harriet Soochet to the show this morning.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Yes, good morning from Pome sort.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Of such a good place to be.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, definitely, And I had a coded missive beautiful.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, we're gonna hit that next. I have a little
bit of laundry. I wanted to get out there. For
anybody who has not seen this movie yet, it's called
Mauritanian and Jody Foster received either nominations for awards or awards.
I honestly only got involved with watching it because I
saw that Jodie Foster was in the cast. I haven't
(01:37):
seen her make anything for quite some time. I really
just was going to check out and see how she's aging.
And how she's doing and all of these things, and
found myself completely engulfed in a movie which to me
kind of looked like a Patsy for the nine to
eleven events. I found it super interesting to note what
(01:57):
we will do to people as a country, but we
won't do it inside of our country. So basically the
set of this is at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. Now,
when did we make friends with Cuba again? Harriet?
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Well, they're still considered a communist country, so I think
I think we made friends with Cuba again kind of
right after circa nineteen seventy, you know, after all the
hijackings back to Cuba, so it's it's still considered a
communist country, but they quietly tried to get some trade going,
(02:35):
and you know, so I think it's been a while, That's.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
What I kind of I remember, like back in the day,
if you had a Cuban cigar, you could be in trouble.
You could go to jail or you know, there was
some illegalities behind having it, but it was supposed to
be the best cigar, and of course anybody who had
money had them, and I'm sure they weren't getting busted
and put into prison.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
But did they exactly I'm like, did they ever lift
that ban or illegalities on the I bet this was
a question for Nolan, But I know he's super busy
with cases and deadlines that he's got to make by Monday,
so I don't know that we'll see him today, But yeah,
(03:17):
that would have been a great question for him.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Either way. They basically, you know, arrested this guy, took
him from his home and I'm guessing somewhere in Saudi
Arabia by the looks of it, or or East India U, yeah,
East India, and they flew him out to Guantanamo Bay
where they basically tortured and hammered him. And the things
that they do to him is just absolutely outrageous. So
(03:40):
no wonder the whole get up for Guantanamo is in Cuba,
because you couldn't get away with that in the United States.
Still illegal to import in the US, they say, as
far as Cuban cigars, gotcha, So you gotta have some
money to get your hands on them bad boys. But
I know there are people out there still enjoying them.
Either way, he was he Finally, Jodi Foster comes in
(04:03):
as his attorney and basically wins him the right to
be released after seven years of torture. Some of the
most maddening things I've ever seen done to somebody. I
literally sat there in awe. Not that I didn't know
that this is kind of some of the tactics they
do when they're trying to interrogate people, but more or
less because you're visually seen and it is based on
(04:25):
a true story. So I would like everybody to, you know,
take a look at this and see what our country does.
Either way. Once she gets him released after seven years
of hell and torture, Barack Obama actually sets an executive
order and holds him for another seven years. And mind you, you
guys that he hasn't been charged with a darn thing,
and that's why Jodi Foster was able to supposedly win
(04:49):
his freedom, and the court said, let this man go.
If you're not going to charge him, you have to
let him go. And of course we see Barack Obama.
It states at the end of this that he literally
made sure that this man didn't leave for another seven years.
So for fourteen years of his life, he lost all
of his freedoms, was treated horrendously by the United States,
(05:10):
and in all for what. In the end, he was released.
He did write a book in regards to this, but
I was watching it. If you watch the end clips,
you get to see the actual gentleman with the different
books from different countries and languages, and it is so
heavily redacted. And that's one of the things they said
at the end is that even though he wrote his book,
the government took their black redaction pen and took away
(05:34):
everything that they said he couldn't produce, which blows my
mind because we're supposed to be the country freedom of speech.
I'm just gonna lost you guys.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Do something. Yeah, can I introduce something really quick?
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (05:53):
We've had in our family and I have them now.
We've always called them the beer glasses from Cuba. My
father went to nineteen sixty two Cuba as a merchant
seman and got these and it was supposed to be
around midnight. I'm trying to remember what the story is.
So I have beer processes from Cuba nineteen sixty two.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
That's crazy, and that's what literally before. Okay, So I'm
getting a note that says JFK signed a law that
prohibited US citizens from doing business with Cuba. That's the
only reason why Cuban cigars are illegal in US. So
if we've started to open up trade and association with
(06:37):
them and these are still illegal, obviously it must be
their mainstay. It must be something that they produce hugely,
and they don't want the United States patronizing these individuals
for whatever reason. But you know, that takes us back
to Sb's SBTC. Right, was Subic Bay, the whole Bush
(06:58):
thing and everything that happened. I want to say, what
when when was that? That was? That was in the sixties,
right when they went over it burnt down all the casinos,
all the mobs. Well, I guess that was obviously Fidel
Castro Castro, right, that burnt down everything, and yeah, gotcha.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
So well there were yeah, in countries like what was
going on in Vietnam that was beginning in Vietnam. I
mean really the war was getting really underway. And that's
my father took part in trying to get people out
and stuff out in nineteen sixty two in that part
of the world also, So it's really strange to be
talking about this at hit home.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Right, right, and with the burning of all the casinos,
and the you know, hotels and the things in Cuba,
those were all owned by what American mobsters.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Well, I think it was a whole mess of people,
but you know, definitely tied to America. I guess it
was only what ninety miles away from Florida, which is
the the you know, the closest coastline of USA. So yeah,
I think there was a lot of people, a lot
of businesses connected and they only had from what I understand,
(08:12):
the mob had their two percent or five percent of
all those businesses.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Right, So you bought that system and you burn it
down so that they don't make their money that they're making.
Of course, now all of a sudden we see politics
step in and you're a communist communist country. May well,
you'll enjoy this YouTuber. He's at Ed edwards Cipher's which
(08:39):
I've discussed with him a couple of different times. He's
the one that doesn't have any handwriting on Ed Edwards
but insists that Ed Edwards is the zodiac and that
he has figured out his ciphers and all of these
things that I thought was extremely interesting at first. And
he reached out to me based on last week's show,
and he said, now you're talking my language, while I'm
(09:00):
not a question documents examiner. I've been studying the writing
style of both the Zodiac and another certain serial killer.
Now is that certain serial killer supposed to be Ed Edwards?
And that was supposed to be I wonder why he
said certain right, certain serial killer. I don't even know
(09:25):
that they have any information on Ed Edwards as him
being a serial killer. I guess I should probably look
this guy up. Either way, he didn't have any handwriting
on him for me to look at, but he says
he's been and I don't so, I literally don't understand.
He says, I've been studying the writing style of both
the Zodiac and another certain serial killer. If he is
talking about Ed Ed Edwards, I've alread asked him if
(09:47):
he has hand righting. He said no, So who's the
certain serial killer? And then he says, I've long wondered
about the s or as they're popular known, popularly known
he says popularly, I don't call them candy cane s,
and I'm a handwriting expert, but he says popularly known
candy cane fs. I found them very interesting and I
(10:08):
have a theory of what they actually are. My problem
with the statement is that obviously he is withholding some information,
acting like he wants to give information, but not actually
giving any information in this post. I mean, please, you guys,
if you're going to come on and you're going to
post some type of a comment, at least give me
(10:28):
the evidence or the or the inference of what it
is that you're talking about so that we can have
an actual conversation. So I actually hit him back up
and I said, if you weren't a hand handwriting expert,
how can this be Your language certainly is mine, So
I would love to get your take on the candy
cane SS, even though we weren't discussing them on this video,
so I don't know he was known. Yeah that's what
(10:53):
that's what he's calling them.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
But but he's calling them the candy cane F anyways.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Shaped like a candy cane.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Even maybe it's something I posted online, but.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Anyways, I have no idea. My point being is that
an F by nature is formed like a candy cane.
I mean, look at your font. The F is a
candy cane. We don't refer to it as a candy cane.
It's called an F and it's called a lowercase F
at that. So when I hit him back up with
that instead of getting and I asked him, I'd love
(11:27):
to get his take on it, right, that's my response.
He says, well, that's an interesting question. I'll try to
explain why Donald and Betty Harden were amateurs yet they
broke a zodiac cipher when this FBI, CIA and other
professionals could not hold up. Wait a minute, is he
full of himself? Are you trying to sell me the
(11:49):
single bullet theory? You believe that the FBI and the
CIA couldn't solve a simple substitution cipher? You've lost your gord.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
That was all staged. I mean, looking back, I can
see it was stage. And I think is one of
the people that he just named. He was a naval expert,
you know, he just you know, have to be also
teaching in the school, if I remember one of the
hardens in spite of their stories, so he wasn't just
your average amateur exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
And if we think about the simple substitution, all he
had to know is about simple substitution ciphers and that
the most used letter of the alphabet will appear more
in a message than any other letter of the alphabet,
So it was more of a mathematical equation, right, determine
which letters used most, plot that in for the most
(12:42):
symbols that are similar, and then work your way outward
from there to the next letter that's most used, and
so on and so forth until you actually start to
get a rhyme and reason to this message. It doesn't
I guess if you want to call him a layman,
because well, you're saying that he has experience with it, right.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Yeah, some kind of experience in the past, and they're
now teachers. So I said, the any history exactly your
average average layman. But I can tell you it to
be a fact that because I was doing it too
as a kid, you did a lot of word puzzles
because you didn't have like how we have things online
now that is quick quick, bam, bam bam. And you
(13:23):
did use your head. Just like you said, you do
a trial and error until you get it right. And
this the hardness kind of knew how.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
To do this, at least the hust exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
So yeah, I wouldn't call them layman, and I wouldn't
call them they were able to solve it over the
FBI and CIA. You just literally called the FBI and
the CIA absolutely worthless in that one single statement, And
I highly doubt that they were not able to solve
something as simple as a substitution cipher when the end
(13:55):
resolved in twenty Well is it twenty twenty one or
something like that? When that Orngchac claim that he used
period nineteen substitute cipher, which was kind of a diagonal
type solve basically to this.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Message, Yeah, he tried something, but I got the solved
and I think we covered it months ago.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Now well yeah, yeah, we couverled it in.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
The information and it took three people sixteen years to
solve it.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Come on, right, right, And so he goes on to say,
David Orngchac considers himself an amateur and not a professional cryptologist. Well,
you can listen to what David Ornchak says all you
want all day long, but this man has been up
in the middle of this entire freaking scenario creating web
(14:50):
toys and all kinds of things to break codes since
well before I got involved.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yes, agreed, Yes, that's true. That was the leal athi
that he had on Zodiac killer dot com and Tom
White was supporting him. He's not your average cryptographer, but
he was using computers to try to break and crackt
things and you know.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
And that tells me you have an average well, but
that tells me you're above average on this type of stuff.
If you're creating an algorithm for a computer program that's
supposed to be able to break code, don't call yourself
an amateur. Like how many people can do that, like
on the norm. Not many. He did go on and
say he and his team broke another zodiac ciphers, So
(15:38):
those could be two instances where amateurs were able to
do something that professionals couldn't. Boy, you're full of yourself.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
At the professional this guy.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Let's have this head Edwards guy on your show, right,
I think I think I understand where these people are
kind of coming from. I hate using that term, but
you know, he's just trying to sell his product. But
you know, and good luck with that, but you know,
come on and have a discussion.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
He's trying to sell himself. And the crazy thing is
that he's not doing a good job of selling himself.
Because if you have a take on the candy cane
f and you throw this kind of rhetoric back at
me instead of that take on the on the candy
cane fs. Then I think you've got You're just messing
with me, You're just wasting my time. Well, he goes
on to say, I would imagine just one bait maybe
(16:30):
enough as an example, but those are two. No, I'm
sorry at ed Edward Seipher's. Those are not two instances
of lay people doing something that the government, the CIA,
and the FBI couldn't do. He then, because I hadn't
answered yet, comes back to say, I must apologize. I
must have seen the part of the clip where you
mentioned the candy cane f I never mentioned candy cane f's,
(16:53):
he said, or just the f's in particular may have
triggered my memory of them. That's probably more true. I
think that they're very that they're I think they're that
important actually, so I was both happy and impressed that
you did speak about them. I didn't. And while I
am not a professional, I'm just another person with an opinion.
(17:16):
I do have an opinion on them. It would be
hard to explain only in written correspondence because in my opinion,
they involve concepts of cryptography, which apparently neither you nor
I may be professionals at well, then why are you
going to give me your take on it? If you
don't know what you're doing, you're not a professional. You're
(17:38):
going to give me basically your opinion or your perception
of what you think these f's mean. In my mind,
I mean, I get this every day. I took a
case yesterday and they wanted to give me their perception
of what they see in handwriting. They don't look at
the same things that I do. So I had to
stop them and say, look, you're not here to bias
me or get me on your side, or tell me
all the things you find right or wrong about writing.
(18:00):
It's my job to determine that. So I'm gonna, you know,
squash whatever you think you see, because I'm going to
do this from a clean slate where I see what
I see based on my experience and what I do
as a professional. He finishes it off by saying, in
a nutshell, however, it entails what may be missing, okay,
especially when you compare the S to the actual zodiac
(18:23):
sigle and he spelt this capital S, I G I L.
Do you know what he's talking about? I probably should
have googled the word.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
He said, what repeat that again? When was the one
I G I L.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
S I G I L, He said, especially when you
compare the s's to the actual zodiac Sigle.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Sigel, what the hell is that? I'm sorry, I'm like,
I'm drowing a blank here.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
I feel like, again, I probably should have googled it
to see if it was actually a word. Anyways, he says,
apologies and in back, as I mentioned, because just to mention
it will not make any sense. So I do apologize
in advance that that's a whole lot of that reminds
me of some of the letters of the zodiac, wrote all.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
I knows. I usually see a lot of acronyms after
when I'm narrowing down what I'm doing, and I would
look something like that, up is that Latin?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Is that?
Speaker 3 (19:20):
What is it? Is it a real word?
Speaker 4 (19:23):
So I don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
It just calls it the actual the actual zodiac Sigle
I am. Anyways, he goes on and he says, I
would submit that I do feel that handwriting and its
study are relevant, but I do feel that the application
of cryptological concepts as they apply to handwriting may be
very useful and a missing component. How can you say
this if you're not even a professional doing cryptoanalysis. I'm
(19:50):
at a loss either way. I didn't get an answer.
And that's what really upsets me the most is because
you spouted out about there is something behind this. You
argue with me the ability of someone's take on what's
been going on, and then you turn around and apologize
to tell me that it won't make any sense if
I try to tell you. So then why did you
(20:10):
try to tell me?
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Oh, he's made his point, he's making his mark.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
Somw okay right either way?
Speaker 3 (20:25):
All right?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
So enough of that. This brings us to a solve
that you had recently given to me. I thought it
came out in nineteen eighty five, so my bad, I
placed it in the wrong chronological order and have pulled
it back to the forefront. I'll move it back to
the nineteen sixty five era once we're done with it.
But this was a letter that you skipped across. Where
did you find this letter at, Harriet?
Speaker 3 (20:47):
I was looking for the one that I worked on
with you ten years earlier, the sixty three, the nineteen
sixty three, and it said as Spencer and George Spencer
or whatever, and I was trying to find that and
I couldn't find it anymore. We're the only ones apparently
that have it. But I found this at Texas at
(21:11):
oh God is the Texas version of the JFK letters.
And when I saw it, I almost like you would say,
fall out of your chair, but I was in the
hospital then I almost go out of Boston all then,
and I looked at it and I said this, I
recognized the system one hundred percent, and I sent it
(21:32):
to you. And I was also in the back of
my head thinking that this could look like Jimmy Carter's handwriting,
because the last time some of us fought something like that,
not you, but that it was Jack's system and end writing.
And it turned out, as I decoded it west Fall,
it was from Jimmy Carter, and so I didn't know
(21:55):
what to use at the code keys for sure, but
I started working on it because doing things like that
when I was hooked up the machines kept my mind
off of a lot of things that were going on,
and it was really good positive stuff for me. And
I ended up finding out that for cod that it's
not only verifying the solve that you had from nineteen
(22:19):
sixty three. I mean that your document exam said that
that was Jack's handwriting of the December nineteen sixty three
from the Dallas and the Lancaster Postmark Dallas PD. This
is saying that Jack wrote that, but that Jimmy Carter
sent it for him, and it's where they get off
the squad and all kinds of unbelievable things, and it's also.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Okay, so let me, let's let's think, let's get into
it before you try to explain it. So basically, I
have the envelope here, and you had said in my
unprofessional doc examiner opinion, the envelope has Jack one oh
one and maybe decodeable. I did not find that it
was Jack's handwriting, obviously, but you said I'm not sure
Jack is in the Jack is in the gethoff A squad,
(23:06):
so maybe more than one involved. This takes us back
to that theory that this is more of a group
thing than it is just a single individual. You did
say fai, I did find your Hit the Road Jack
segment that had the Palmdale envelope. You did a show
after this with the surprise info on the decode envelope,
and I think that it so either this envelope or
(23:26):
are you saying that the nineteen sixty three envelope actually
related to tippetbody traded for JFK body the Palmdale area
where JFK was hid. Who shot him was Roselli Brading
Bowers in schevella Savella from trade tracks, et cetera. Right,
But it's strange that it appears only you and I
(23:48):
have a copy of this twelve three sixty three envelope
slash note online and I found this online ten years ago.
All this said, I wanted to decode that note. I did,
and I'll send that and then the nineteen eighty eight
Donald Zodiac communications to coded to this weekend, which you'll
need to get those over to me because I don't
believe I have those yet. But we're going to take
a look at this envelope. So basically, you stated all
(24:13):
the information that you found on this particular envelope, correct,
So things like Dallas Police Department police Chief Jesse Edward
Curry was the police chief at the time, police Headquarters,
municipal building. And then you allotted a number, obviously to
every single one of these particular letters in the communication,
and that was to make sure that you don't double
(24:34):
use them, right, each one gets allocated with the number, and.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
What's that Okay, just to make sure that I don't
leave anything out. And if I have five hundred symbols,
I better have five hundred matching. So that's why m hm.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
So basically taking all the information from that, you've assigned
it a number. Then you've turned around and you have
created a message, and you've shown us that each one
of the letters in this particular message has been accounted
for via your system and the use of those particular letters.
So you came up with a solve. Do you want
(25:13):
to read that?
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah, I'm going to read the tail end one, the
last one that's kind of like a pinkish and a
whitish at the bottom book, so that this message.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
But I thought, what's this one that says Washington honorable
any New York, New York senator? Okay, so that's where
I'm at right now. This is the envelope, correct.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Yeah, this is just the envelope. And I just am
blown away when I'm finishing this, and anyway, so.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
I hit hits. We don't waste any time.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Yes, ma'am okay Washington, Honorable, New England, New York, New
York Senator Bobby Kennedy said you missing funny missus Demaggio
am for married one fourteen, nineteen fifty four, and that's
when she was married. And then it says President Kennedy
(26:04):
get Hoppa squad. Next mission is railroad train tracks operator
Lee Bauers Junior. And he's suggesting future over tomorrow's UPI
pretty cherry Joe Bates murder I E. Then after in
year nineteen seventy five in newspaper Whining Nut Gen for
(26:25):
general Manager Dog International Brotherhood, Teamsters Union, Cappuccino lover bum Hoppa,
and then he's saying one I Sat de ec December third,
nineteen sixty three, Lancaster, California. Letter and envelope printed by
an and as No Minescio, Jack Torrance. So that's his handwriting,
(26:46):
printing you did the verification anyways, And then it's describing
what's in there so he can verify whoever decoded this anyways?
United States five cents postage stamp dark blue red, bluish black,
US Scott number twelve forty, Issued date November one, nineteen
(27:07):
sixty three, which is true that the stamp is on
their bureau Printing and Engraving Jory Press, black ink clock
received Dallas Police Maniccipal Building NIX one zero six south
hardwood micro dot t that is in the stamp anyways.
(27:27):
Tuberculosis Support for Tuberculosis Association, National Tuberculosis Association Across of Lorraine,
November twenty second, sixty three. President, this is what was
in the saul President Lincoln's body. Five preforations tippethead plaster
casts ten and a half millimeters by ten and a
(27:49):
half millimeters pictures. He's trying to say what they used
as President Kennedy's pictures anyways, and then it said two
I sent one my handwriting that one version of this
nineteen sixty five Police Department, Dallas, Texas from my city Plains,
Georgia location. And he's saying he did it in secret.
(28:14):
No mansio him e ate military US Navy pay grade.
That's US in pay grade. James Carter, Junior of Georgia
State senator and future president nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
It's his all that, Wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
So it's basically indicating, I mean, this is obviously two
years after, so it's basically indicating what occurred with JFK.
But then it's talking about the upcoming murder of Sherry
Joe Bates, while stating that eventually in nineteen seventy six,
James Carter Junior is slated to become our next president.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Yeah, and that's what's showing up in this nineteen sixty
five and it's dated I think postmark January third, nineteen
sixty five. That is when Senator Bobby Kennedy went into
the Hill and started serving as a Senator.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Now, your dad, being in the Merchant Marines way back
in the years, had indicated to you at one point
that the presidency has already been decided upon up to
fifteen years in advance. I think that's something I've heard
you say several times.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
Correct, So what do you do with yah?
Speaker 3 (29:31):
I would argue with them often, and then I didn't
want to argue with them too much. But anyways, yes,
he would say that a lot.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
So basically, we're looking at a twelve year difference or
eleven year difference between when Jimmy Carter is going to
become president and the mention of it in a nineteen
sixty five communication, and that is within the fifteen year timeframe,
and I can kind of see how that they've got
this going as well. I mean, especially with these last
(30:00):
few elections and the you know, Trump getting back into
office and things like that. You can see how they
set this ploy up. Very very interesting. So this is
the actual communication itself, and this is the letter that
was contained inside, and it said, dear sir, I'm writing
you this letter because it is true, and I am
going to prove it when I get out of prison.
I want to tell you this because I can prove it.
(30:25):
Now hold your hat. I know who go there. I know,
And yeah, he's got some interesting handwriting as well. I
know who had JFK shot. Because I was a good
friend of Harry Oswald. Jack Ruby was pay paid to
(30:48):
kill Kennedy by the Lyndon Johnson and Jack Ruby paid
Harry Oswald Kennedy. Jack Ruby promised to meet Harvey All's
at the theater and give him I don't know it
sounds I'm sorry, this must Yeah, it's what Jack Ruby
(31:14):
promised to pay him. So he's basically as almost if
he's trying to say that Jack that Oswald was to
be paid for actually having committed this crime.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
But it's a lot. I started to try to solve
that one, and it ended up being sounding like a
lot of repetitive nonsense, only saying Harvey as Harvey. Also
Harvey Al's well, Harvey Alswald, and that's what was happening
on the TV. So I think it's almost as if
he's saying that the rest, this is the code on
(31:49):
the envelope is the most important, and the rest is
nonsense about Lee Harvey Alswald.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Oh, it's I kept saying Harry and Henry because you
can't read his writing. I'm like, what is he writing here?
My goodness, So, yes, Harvey is so killing Kennedy. Harvey
Oswald wanted me to go to the theater with him,
So he's got all kinds of things going on in
this letter. But you're right, it's very repetitive. He almost
keeps saying the same exact thing over and over again
(32:15):
instead of giving the information we're looking for. And that
takes us actually to this solve that you were saying,
which was more the pinkish color or look, and that
was that the one that you just read.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
The one that I read was a combination of both.
But yeah, I just read that. It's one that stated
three five, and I put the two together because that's
pretty much the best completed sol. But he's trying to
get across and he's assuming again what you identified, right.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
So the only thing we hadn't read out of this
then is section number two, right, I sent my sent
one my handwriting.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Oh the eyes, I just read that. But yeah, but
that was blowing away. It's saying he's going to be
the president in nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Right, more predictory stuff basically, which we've been used to
seeing in this in these cases. All right, well, then
that brings us back to our next We're going to
go right back into some Texas murders again. Everybody, remember
Jack is currently divorced from nort at this point in time.
We don't really see him until a little bit later
(33:30):
where he indicates that he's even working for Hewlett Packard yet,
so again we're still waiting to see that stuff pop up.
But in June seventh of nineteen eighty four, thirty year
old George H. Bud Sager, Junior, West Dallas, Conrod, Texas,
went missing. Sager withdrew money from his bank near IH
forty five and Spring Cypress Road in Spring, Texas. This
(33:51):
is the last time that he was known to have
been seen alive. On July third of nineteen eighty four,
Sager's truck was found abandoned in the parking lot of
the Crossroad Shop Center located the eleven hundred West Dallas Conroe.
Foul play was suspected at the time, and Sager was
never heard from again. So this is more a missing person.
(34:12):
Then we have a school that's found from a missing
person in twenty eleven. In twenty ten, MSCO cold case
detectives obtained DNA from Sager's family members for upload into
the DNA database known as COTIS. In twenty eleven, a
DNA match occurred with a school found in Walker County, Texas.
Investigations revealed that on December eighteenth, nineteen eighty nine, and
(34:33):
individual picking up aluminum cans along FM thirteen seventy five,
approximately nine tenths of a mile west of IH forty
five near Waverley area, discovered the school on the side
of the roadway. The school was found to contain a
shorthand written note stating that an unknown individual had found
the school in the woods but could not get involved.
It appeared that the author of the note had moved
(34:54):
the skull from the woods and placed along the shoulder
of the road where it might be discovered. This it
sounds like don't last to me.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
You know, this is reminding me of a lot of
the other songs that I've done of some of these
cold cases, and I was wondering, how did they know
that that things were moved and position in such a way.
And now you're reading this and it looks like somebody's
trying to stage the crime scene. And if it's decodable,
(35:26):
it might find some more information.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
But that's what Maybe they were just maybe they were
just growing plot in the woods, stumbled across this. It's
not legally in Texas, so they moved this school well
out of the way, because.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Who would they be growing the pot for? Do you know,
uppear it doesn't matter?
Speaker 2 (35:48):
And that's just that's just a hypothetical because it states
that there was a note inside of it said that
the person didn't want to get involved. So if the
person didn't want to get involved, there's there's a reason
why they don't want to get involved. I'm not saying
that they actually were growing pot. I'm just saying what
if and they stumbled across the skull. You're not going
to invite the police up to your location where you
(36:12):
can get busted. You're gonna move it to another place
hoping that somebody gets I guess identified. I don't know.
It'd be interesting to see that note that was inside
the skull.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Oh, I was pointed to say quickly. A lot of
people say that the CIA the marijuana that they were using,
even if Jack's Era was being grown in certain regions
here and it was being grown for the CIA to
do some weird things diplomatically to get the goods on people.
So you know, somebody like that would not want to.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Get involved, right right, there's a reason and.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
My apology to the victim.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, exactly. Well, at least they were able to identify him.
But the interesting part is is that what was it
nineteen eighty six that don Alasis school was found?
Speaker 3 (37:03):
No, they say it was nineteen eighty six, and that's
what seventy decades to get it identified.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
But that's what I've all I asked, was nineteen eighty six,
And yes, nineteen eighty six was when her school was found,
but she went missing in nineteen seventy one. He goes
missing in nineteen eighty four, and his school is found
in nineteen eighty nine, but again by the freeway, which
is pretty much, you know, a central location or a
(37:34):
location near where Donald Lass's school was found as well.
But hers was actually found in the woods June tenth
of nineteen eighty four approximately. Katrina DaCosta in Stockholm, Sweden.
I'm not sure this is back from two thousand and nine.
I just threw in every single unsolved murder I can find,
but we'll talk about it anyways in case it brings
(37:54):
things back up for people to reminisce or research. It
says remains the Swedish prostitutetri to DaCosta on nineteenth of
June nineteen fifty four to nineteen eighty four were found
in Solna, north of Stockholm. In the late summer of
nineteen eighty four. DaCosta had been dismembered, Andy and parts
of her body in plastic bags were found one kilometer
(38:15):
apart on eighteenth of July and the eighth of August.
The case is known as strict more destruck. Oh yeah,
I'm not trying that, guys. It actually means the dismemberment,
murdered trial how to costa diet has not been established
since vital organs, one breast, genitalia and her head have
not even been found. Wow, extremely interesting, extremely brutal. It
(38:42):
did say, I did want to. I think I was
looking at this to research the found heads because the
SLA Manifesto, which we know that the Zodiac wrote a
letter in regards to SLA, is found in Sweden. And
that was an interesting take or cross connection there that
the manifesto for the Symbionese lip Simeonese Liberation Army was
(39:03):
actually located in Sweden. So I wanted to also check
for other Sweden murders just to see if there could
be some type of a cross connection between it. June
twenty first of nineteen eighty four Christine and Bood Riverbrook Drive,
Forest Hill, subdivision of Conrod, Texas. So we're starting to
see a theme right now, this conroa thing is a
(39:24):
lot of these unsolved murders that are occurring. And it
says she was last seen in the parking lot of
the Inverness apartment complex located at four oh three Longmere Road, Conroad, Texas,
at approximately two am same date. An MCSO deputy was
flagged down on I forty five at FM fourteen eighty
eight and alerted to what was thought to be a
(39:44):
body in the roadway. The deputy responded and found the
dead body of Bud lying in the roadway. The subsequent
investigation and subsequent autopsy revealed that she had died from
being struck by a vehicle. Evidence of the scene indicated
that the striking vehicle turned around and reapproached Bud's brought
body prior to fleeing the scene. And this was Conroe
(40:06):
Porter in Springer, All pretty much within thirty to forty
minutes from Humble, Texas, which we will see. Well, we
did with the two thousand five finale letter the Humble
Texas reference, so there could be some cross connections here
as well. But if the last place she was seen
alive was in her parking lot, now she's being run
(40:26):
over on the freeway, I mean, did they take her
there and let her out of the car and then
just proceed to mow her down? And then who is
silly enough after hitting somebody to back up, turn around
and go check them out where to the degree that
they would be seen by somebody. You don't have anything
on Christine bood though, do you no.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
But that's very familiar territory what I've done many many
But so I'm just wondering, is that also Robbert Abel,
because that's the stuff he would do. It's God, but
he got he got his you know.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Yeah, I still get confused because the finale letter said
that that Abel was not the devil that Blue City
or League City Blue Fuzz was looking for in a sense.
And why would a serial killer take credit for a
multitude of different unsolved killing sprees and given out to
(41:27):
somebody like Abel, especially if he was a killer, a
serial killer no less, why would they take away that?
And I want to say that Pat serial one of
the profilers, probably for the FBI or something like that,
was really interested in Able as a potential for being
(41:48):
the suspect. But here we have this taunting letter, which
we know is Zodiac one oh one, stating that he's
not the person you're looking for. So I get a
little confused on that. The Lige twenty night, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
If I remember right, Pat Syria was doing the BTK
cases at the time and thinking that they were leaks.
And that's also Jack is just you know, trying to
point out that you know, your profile system is squawed,
and and who was in jail at the time over
(42:26):
thinking BTKE Dennis Raider BTK Dennis Raider was a Zodiac.
That was Tom Boyd. He got arrested for some things
that was also Yeah, tom boy got he was trying
he was in that region trying to help prove that
bt K was Zodiac, and Pat Cerria was doing the
(42:50):
the links between the possibilities so that Dennis never Dennis
and a lot of us on the message boards later
on never let tom Voight forget about that one.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
So Tom Boyd got himself arrested while trying to insinuate
that the BTK bomber was the Zodiac, that the bt.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
K killer was the Zodiac, that Dennis Raider was actually
probably the most likely suspect, and he got in trouble
and he got arrested.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Then what does that acronym stand for again, bind, torture, kill, Yeah, gotcha,
and so and then you know he was thinking, Okay,
I got the right.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
He was trying to push a Zodiac suspect, So, yeah,
he got in trouble. So I think Jack is also
trying to point out many ways that your system is flawed,
including this guy who's saying that you know that all
these guys are linked in as one, and.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
We hadn't really seen a lot of buying torture kill
in the acts of the Zodiac Killer, unless you go
all the way back to say Black Dahlia era, you know.
I mean, she clearly looked like she had been tortured
based on all of the damage to her face and
her mouth being cut and all of those things. But
as you got into the Zodiac stuff, you didn't really
(44:16):
see torture so much as a tactic as much as
you saw just blunt force trauma, strangulation and shootings and stabbings.
So I'm not sure why he would think that buying
torture kill would be up the alley of the Zodiac Killer,
especially if he didn't believe that he was involved with
(44:39):
the Black Dolia stuff. Now, if you believe that he
was in part of the Black Dolia stuff, then I
could see, yes, you putting those two together, But I
don't know what his take is on Black Dahlia. Anyways.
We have another murder in Florence in Italy of a
couple on twenty ninth of July nineteen eighty four, law
student Claudio Stefanacci and bar made Pia Gilda Rontini, eighteen,
(45:03):
were shot and stabbed in Stephanie stephan Nazi's Fiat Panda
parked in a wood wood I can't even speak now,
there's so many different versions of language here. Parked in
a woodland area near Viccio. The killer removed Rattini's public
area and left breast pubic area, sorry, and left breast.
(45:24):
So now we have this is This might be why
I put that last one boot in there, because we're
seeing the missing breast and the pubic area. This stuff
is kind of really reminiscent of black Do Yeah, says.
There were reports of a strange man who had been
following the couple in an ice cream parlor some hours
before the murder. A close friend of Rontini called that
(45:45):
she had confided that she had been bothered by an
unpleasant man while working at the bar. That's a very
interesting take, but yeah, I mean removing the pubic area
and the left breast we had. I don't remember which
breast was damaged on black edah. Yeah, but we did
see them manipulate the pubic area and the breast.
Speaker 4 (46:08):
Hmm. Going on here?
Speaker 2 (46:14):
All right, Well that brings us to Laura Miller, and
we've only got about four minutes, so I'm not sure
if we want to hop into this right now or
discuss some of the things that we've been talking about
thus far.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
What do you think, Harriet, Yeah, let's just talk about
well thus far, because there's a lot going on in there,
and it looks like it may You had one of
the victims from from Stockholm, Sweden and the SLA all
(46:47):
that a lot of people were thinking and I was
one of them that the SLA was where you find
James Kilgour, You're going to find the real zodiac and
h and I'm seeing that zodiac is of course just
intel community things and you know, the missing body parts
(47:10):
goes way back and it's disgusting, but it may or
may not always be code. You know, the things that
I'm seeing from the nineteenth century, but also involving Stockholm, Sweden.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
That's because you were saying that the UPI and API
releases would indicate kind of the forensic information on location,
placement of the body, things that were done, what they
were wearing, and use that type of information to actually
decode a solve. Correct.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
Yeah, And I was wondering, how could that be at
two o'clock in the morning that they knew in the
middle of nowhere, let's say Texas or even California, that
the body was moved, And how would they know it
was moved twenty two feet to the north and accept
you know how? And this is where Robert Abel and
his people come in. They were able to take pictures,
(48:07):
and we're seeing it that they were taking pictures from
way above. If they were following these drug dealers and
anybody connected, even if they killed somebody, they were able
to see and watch them because there were pictures constantly
being taken then by our satellites. So then it made
sense to me Ali knew and Jack said that they
(48:28):
killed on a full moon. You were able to see
in the middle of nowhere, Texas. If you've ever been
to Texas and they went there as a kid a
couple of times, in the middle of nowhere and a
full moon, it was almost like daylight.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
So right, he talks about that in one of his letters,
is the Zodiac.
Speaker 3 (48:47):
Being able to That made sense that they were able
to see from the way up above and click, click,
click the pictures and then they would go back and see, well,
the victim was dragged twenty two feet to the north
and it was two o'clock in the morning or to
a forty in the morning.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
And simple, simple forensics also gives you you know where
a person was killed versus where a body was dumped
simply by the lack of blood. We're down to our
last thirty seconds at this point. I think that was
a very interesting take. Thank you, Harriet. I want to
wish everybody a wonderful weekend and we will be back
(49:24):
next Friday. See you.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
Then.
Speaker 4 (49:27):
Thank you Harriet for being here today, and I think
I'll be on visually.
Speaker 3 (49:33):
Okay, see you.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
That'll be awesome. We'll see you then. Take care.
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You should seek the services.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Good Morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
I'd like to welcome Harriet Soochet to the show this morning.
Speaker 3 (01:03):
Yes, good morning from Pome sort.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Of such a good place to be.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, definitely, And I had a coded missive beautiful.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Yeah, we're gonna hit that next. I have a little
bit of laundry. I wanted to get out there. For
anybody who has not seen this movie yet, it's called
Mauritanian and Jody Foster received either nominations for awards or awards.
I honestly only got involved with watching it because I
saw that Jodie Foster was in the cast. I haven't
(01:37):
seen her make anything for quite some time. I really
just was going to check out and see how she's aging.
And how she's doing and all of these things, and
found myself completely engulfed in a movie which to me
kind of looked like a Patsy for the nine to
eleven events. I found it super interesting to note what
(01:57):
we will do to people as a country, but we
won't do it inside of our country. So basically the
set of this is at Guantanamo Bay in Cuba. Now,
when did we make friends with Cuba again? Harriet?
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Do you know?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
Well, they're still considered a communist country, so I think
I think we made friends with Cuba again kind of
right after circa nineteen seventy, you know, after all the
hijackings back to Cuba, so it's it's still considered a
communist country, but they quietly tried to get some trade going,
(02:35):
and you know, so I think it's been a while, That's.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
What I kind of I remember, like back in the day,
if you had a Cuban cigar, you could be in trouble.
You could go to jail or you know, there was
some illegalities behind having it, but it was supposed to
be the best cigar, and of course anybody who had
money had them, and I'm sure they weren't getting busted
and put into prison.
Speaker 5 (02:57):
But did they exactly I'm like, did they ever lift
that ban or illegalities on the I bet this was
a question for Nolan, But I know he's super busy
with cases and deadlines that he's got to make by Monday,
so I don't know that we'll see him today, But yeah,
(03:17):
that would have been a great question for him.
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Either way. They basically, you know, arrested this guy, took
him from his home and I'm guessing somewhere in Saudi
Arabia by the looks of it, or or East India U, yeah,
East India, and they flew him out to Guantanamo Bay
where they basically tortured and hammered him. And the things
that they do to him is just absolutely outrageous. So
(03:40):
no wonder the whole get up for Guantanamo is in Cuba,
because you couldn't get away with that in the United States.
Still illegal to import in the US, they say, as
far as Cuban cigars, gotcha, So you gotta have some
money to get your hands on them bad boys. But
I know there are people out there still enjoying them.
Either way, he was he Finally, Jodi Foster comes in
(04:03):
as his attorney and basically wins him the right to
be released after seven years of torture. Some of the
most maddening things I've ever seen done to somebody. I
literally sat there in awe. Not that I didn't know
that this is kind of some of the tactics they
do when they're trying to interrogate people, but more or
less because you're visually seen and it is based on
(04:25):
a true story. So I would like everybody to, you know,
take a look at this and see what our country does.
Either way. Once she gets him released after seven years
of hell and torture, Barack Obama actually sets an executive
order and holds him for another seven years. And mind you, you
guys that he hasn't been charged with a darn thing,
and that's why Jodi Foster was able to supposedly win
(04:49):
his freedom, and the court said, let this man go.
If you're not going to charge him, you have to
let him go. And of course we see Barack Obama.
It states at the end of this that he literally
made sure that this man didn't leave for another seven years.
So for fourteen years of his life, he lost all
of his freedoms, was treated horrendously by the United States,
(05:10):
and in all for what. In the end, he was released.
He did write a book in regards to this, but
I was watching it. If you watch the end clips,
you get to see the actual gentleman with the different
books from different countries and languages, and it is so
heavily redacted. And that's one of the things they said
at the end is that even though he wrote his book,
the government took their black redaction pen and took away
(05:34):
everything that they said he couldn't produce, which blows my
mind because we're supposed to be the country freedom of speech.
I'm just gonna lost you guys.
Speaker 3 (05:48):
Do something. Yeah, can I introduce something really quick?
Speaker 4 (05:53):
Okay?
Speaker 3 (05:53):
We've had in our family and I have them now.
We've always called them the beer glasses from Cuba. My
father went to nineteen sixty two Cuba as a merchant
seman and got these and it was supposed to be
around midnight. I'm trying to remember what the story is.
So I have beer processes from Cuba nineteen sixty two.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
That's crazy, and that's what literally before. Okay, So I'm
getting a note that says JFK signed a law that
prohibited US citizens from doing business with Cuba. That's the
only reason why Cuban cigars are illegal in US. So
if we've started to open up trade and association with
(06:37):
them and these are still illegal, obviously it must be
their mainstay. It must be something that they produce hugely,
and they don't want the United States patronizing these individuals
for whatever reason. But you know, that takes us back
to Sb's SBTC. Right, was Subic Bay, the whole Bush
(06:58):
thing and everything that happened. I want to say, what
when when was that? That was? That was in the sixties,
right when they went over it burnt down all the casinos,
all the mobs. Well, I guess that was obviously Fidel
Castro Castro, right, that burnt down everything, and yeah, gotcha.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
So well there were yeah, in countries like what was
going on in Vietnam that was beginning in Vietnam. I
mean really the war was getting really underway. And that's
my father took part in trying to get people out
and stuff out in nineteen sixty two in that part
of the world also, So it's really strange to be
talking about this at hit home.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
Right, right, and with the burning of all the casinos,
and the you know, hotels and the things in Cuba,
those were all owned by what American mobsters.
Speaker 3 (07:50):
Well, I think it was a whole mess of people,
but you know, definitely tied to America. I guess it
was only what ninety miles away from Florida, which is
the the you know, the closest coastline of USA. So yeah,
I think there was a lot of people, a lot
of businesses connected and they only had from what I understand,
(08:12):
the mob had their two percent or five percent of
all those businesses.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Right, So you bought that system and you burn it
down so that they don't make their money that they're making.
Of course, now all of a sudden we see politics
step in and you're a communist communist country. May well,
you'll enjoy this YouTuber. He's at Ed edwards Cipher's which
(08:39):
I've discussed with him a couple of different times. He's
the one that doesn't have any handwriting on Ed Edwards
but insists that Ed Edwards is the zodiac and that
he has figured out his ciphers and all of these
things that I thought was extremely interesting at first. And
he reached out to me based on last week's show,
and he said, now you're talking my language, while I'm
(09:00):
not a question documents examiner. I've been studying the writing
style of both the Zodiac and another certain serial killer.
Now is that certain serial killer supposed to be Ed Edwards?
And that was supposed to be I wonder why he
said certain right, certain serial killer. I don't even know
(09:25):
that they have any information on Ed Edwards as him
being a serial killer. I guess I should probably look
this guy up. Either way, he didn't have any handwriting
on him for me to look at, but he says
he's been and I don't so, I literally don't understand.
He says, I've been studying the writing style of both
the Zodiac and another certain serial killer. If he is
talking about Ed Ed Edwards, I've alread asked him if
(09:47):
he has hand righting. He said no, So who's the
certain serial killer? And then he says, I've long wondered
about the s or as they're popular known, popularly known
he says popularly, I don't call them candy cane s,
and I'm a handwriting expert, but he says popularly known
candy cane fs. I found them very interesting and I
(10:08):
have a theory of what they actually are. My problem
with the statement is that obviously he is withholding some information,
acting like he wants to give information, but not actually
giving any information in this post. I mean, please, you guys,
if you're going to come on and you're going to
post some type of a comment, at least give me
(10:28):
the evidence or the or the inference of what it
is that you're talking about so that we can have
an actual conversation. So I actually hit him back up
and I said, if you weren't a hand handwriting expert,
how can this be Your language certainly is mine, So
I would love to get your take on the candy
cane SS, even though we weren't discussing them on this video,
so I don't know he was known. Yeah that's what
(10:53):
that's what he's calling them.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
But but he's calling them the candy cane F anyways.
Speaker 4 (11:00):
Shaped like a candy cane.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Even maybe it's something I posted online, but.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Anyways, I have no idea. My point being is that
an F by nature is formed like a candy cane.
I mean, look at your font. The F is a
candy cane. We don't refer to it as a candy cane.
It's called an F and it's called a lowercase F
at that. So when I hit him back up with
that instead of getting and I asked him, I'd love
(11:27):
to get his take on it, right, that's my response.
He says, well, that's an interesting question. I'll try to
explain why Donald and Betty Harden were amateurs yet they
broke a zodiac cipher when this FBI, CIA and other
professionals could not hold up. Wait a minute, is he
full of himself? Are you trying to sell me the
(11:49):
single bullet theory? You believe that the FBI and the
CIA couldn't solve a simple substitution cipher? You've lost your gord.
Speaker 3 (12:00):
That was all staged. I mean, looking back, I can
see it was stage. And I think is one of
the people that he just named. He was a naval expert,
you know, he just you know, have to be also
teaching in the school, if I remember one of the
hardens in spite of their stories, so he wasn't just
your average amateur exactly.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
And if we think about the simple substitution, all he
had to know is about simple substitution ciphers and that
the most used letter of the alphabet will appear more
in a message than any other letter of the alphabet,
So it was more of a mathematical equation, right, determine
which letters used most, plot that in for the most
(12:42):
symbols that are similar, and then work your way outward
from there to the next letter that's most used, and
so on and so forth until you actually start to
get a rhyme and reason to this message. It doesn't
I guess if you want to call him a layman,
because well, you're saying that he has experience with it, right.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Yeah, some kind of experience in the past, and they're
now teachers. So I said, the any history exactly your
average average layman. But I can tell you it to
be a fact that because I was doing it too
as a kid, you did a lot of word puzzles
because you didn't have like how we have things online
now that is quick quick, bam, bam bam. And you
(13:23):
did use your head. Just like you said, you do
a trial and error until you get it right. And
this the hardness kind of knew how.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
To do this, at least the hust exactly.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
So yeah, I wouldn't call them layman, and I wouldn't
call them they were able to solve it over the
FBI and CIA. You just literally called the FBI and
the CIA absolutely worthless in that one single statement, And
I highly doubt that they were not able to solve
something as simple as a substitution cipher when the end
(13:55):
resolved in twenty Well is it twenty twenty one or
something like that? When that Orngchac claim that he used
period nineteen substitute cipher, which was kind of a diagonal
type solve basically to this.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
Message, Yeah, he tried something, but I got the solved
and I think we covered it months ago.
Speaker 4 (14:22):
Now well yeah, yeah, we couverled it in.
Speaker 3 (14:25):
The information and it took three people sixteen years to
solve it.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Come on, right, right, And so he goes on to say,
David Orngchac considers himself an amateur and not a professional cryptologist. Well,
you can listen to what David Ornchak says all you
want all day long, but this man has been up
in the middle of this entire freaking scenario creating web
(14:50):
toys and all kinds of things to break codes since
well before I got involved.
Speaker 3 (14:57):
Yes, agreed, Yes, that's true. That was the leal athi
that he had on Zodiac killer dot com and Tom
White was supporting him. He's not your average cryptographer, but
he was using computers to try to break and crackt
things and you know.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
And that tells me you have an average well, but
that tells me you're above average on this type of stuff.
If you're creating an algorithm for a computer program that's
supposed to be able to break code, don't call yourself
an amateur. Like how many people can do that, like
on the norm. Not many. He did go on and
say he and his team broke another zodiac ciphers, So
(15:38):
those could be two instances where amateurs were able to
do something that professionals couldn't. Boy, you're full of yourself.
Speaker 4 (15:47):
At the professional this guy.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
Let's have this head Edwards guy on your show, right,
I think I think I understand where these people are
kind of coming from. I hate using that term, but
you know, he's just trying to sell his product. But
you know, and good luck with that, but you know,
come on and have a discussion.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
He's trying to sell himself. And the crazy thing is
that he's not doing a good job of selling himself.
Because if you have a take on the candy cane
f and you throw this kind of rhetoric back at
me instead of that take on the on the candy
cane fs. Then I think you've got You're just messing
with me, You're just wasting my time. Well, he goes
on to say, I would imagine just one bait maybe
(16:30):
enough as an example, but those are two. No, I'm
sorry at ed Edward Seipher's. Those are not two instances
of lay people doing something that the government, the CIA,
and the FBI couldn't do. He then, because I hadn't
answered yet, comes back to say, I must apologize. I
must have seen the part of the clip where you
mentioned the candy cane f I never mentioned candy cane f's,
(16:53):
he said, or just the f's in particular may have
triggered my memory of them. That's probably more true. I
think that they're very that they're I think they're that
important actually, so I was both happy and impressed that
you did speak about them. I didn't. And while I
am not a professional, I'm just another person with an opinion.
(17:16):
I do have an opinion on them. It would be
hard to explain only in written correspondence because in my opinion,
they involve concepts of cryptography, which apparently neither you nor
I may be professionals at well, then why are you
going to give me your take on it? If you
don't know what you're doing, you're not a professional. You're
(17:38):
going to give me basically your opinion or your perception
of what you think these f's mean. In my mind,
I mean, I get this every day. I took a
case yesterday and they wanted to give me their perception
of what they see in handwriting. They don't look at
the same things that I do. So I had to
stop them and say, look, you're not here to bias
me or get me on your side, or tell me
all the things you find right or wrong about writing.
(18:00):
It's my job to determine that. So I'm gonna, you know,
squash whatever you think you see, because I'm going to
do this from a clean slate where I see what
I see based on my experience and what I do
as a professional. He finishes it off by saying, in
a nutshell, however, it entails what may be missing, okay,
especially when you compare the S to the actual zodiac
(18:23):
sigle and he spelt this capital S, I G I L.
Do you know what he's talking about? I probably should
have googled the word.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
He said, what repeat that again? When was the one
I G I L.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
S I G I L, He said, especially when you
compare the s's to the actual zodiac Sigle.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Sigel, what the hell is that? I'm sorry, I'm like,
I'm drowing a blank here.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
I feel like, again, I probably should have googled it
to see if it was actually a word. Anyways, he says,
apologies and in back, as I mentioned, because just to mention
it will not make any sense. So I do apologize
in advance that that's a whole lot of that reminds
me of some of the letters of the zodiac, wrote all.
Speaker 3 (19:11):
I knows. I usually see a lot of acronyms after
when I'm narrowing down what I'm doing, and I would
look something like that, up is that Latin?
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Is that?
Speaker 3 (19:20):
What is it? Is it a real word?
Speaker 4 (19:23):
So I don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:23):
It just calls it the actual the actual zodiac Sigle
I am. Anyways, he goes on and he says, I
would submit that I do feel that handwriting and its
study are relevant, but I do feel that the application
of cryptological concepts as they apply to handwriting may be
very useful and a missing component. How can you say
this if you're not even a professional doing cryptoanalysis. I'm
(19:50):
at a loss either way. I didn't get an answer.
And that's what really upsets me the most is because
you spouted out about there is something behind this. You
argue with me the ability of someone's take on what's
been going on, and then you turn around and apologize
to tell me that it won't make any sense if
I try to tell you. So then why did you
(20:10):
try to tell me?
Speaker 3 (20:15):
Oh, he's made his point, he's making his mark.
Speaker 4 (20:20):
Somw okay right either way?
Speaker 3 (20:25):
All right?
Speaker 2 (20:25):
So enough of that. This brings us to a solve
that you had recently given to me. I thought it
came out in nineteen eighty five, so my bad, I
placed it in the wrong chronological order and have pulled
it back to the forefront. I'll move it back to
the nineteen sixty five era once we're done with it.
But this was a letter that you skipped across. Where
did you find this letter at, Harriet?
Speaker 3 (20:47):
I was looking for the one that I worked on
with you ten years earlier, the sixty three, the nineteen
sixty three, and it said as Spencer and George Spencer
or whatever, and I was trying to find that and
I couldn't find it anymore. We're the only ones apparently
that have it. But I found this at Texas at
(21:11):
oh God is the Texas version of the JFK letters.
And when I saw it, I almost like you would say,
fall out of your chair, but I was in the
hospital then I almost go out of Boston all then,
and I looked at it and I said this, I
recognized the system one hundred percent, and I sent it
(21:32):
to you. And I was also in the back of
my head thinking that this could look like Jimmy Carter's handwriting,
because the last time some of us fought something like that,
not you, but that it was Jack's system and end writing.
And it turned out, as I decoded it west Fall,
it was from Jimmy Carter, and so I didn't know
(21:55):
what to use at the code keys for sure, but
I started working on it because doing things like that
when I was hooked up the machines kept my mind
off of a lot of things that were going on,
and it was really good positive stuff for me. And
I ended up finding out that for cod that it's
not only verifying the solve that you had from nineteen
(22:19):
sixty three. I mean that your document exam said that
that was Jack's handwriting of the December nineteen sixty three
from the Dallas and the Lancaster Postmark Dallas PD. This
is saying that Jack wrote that, but that Jimmy Carter
sent it for him, and it's where they get off
the squad and all kinds of unbelievable things, and it's also.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Okay, so let me, let's let's think, let's get into
it before you try to explain it. So basically, I
have the envelope here, and you had said in my
unprofessional doc examiner opinion, the envelope has Jack one oh
one and maybe decodeable. I did not find that it
was Jack's handwriting, obviously, but you said I'm not sure
Jack is in the Jack is in the gethoff A squad,
(23:06):
so maybe more than one involved. This takes us back
to that theory that this is more of a group
thing than it is just a single individual. You did
say fai, I did find your Hit the Road Jack
segment that had the Palmdale envelope. You did a show
after this with the surprise info on the decode envelope,
and I think that it so either this envelope or
(23:26):
are you saying that the nineteen sixty three envelope actually
related to tippetbody traded for JFK body the Palmdale area
where JFK was hid. Who shot him was Roselli Brading
Bowers in schevella Savella from trade tracks, et cetera. Right,
But it's strange that it appears only you and I
(23:48):
have a copy of this twelve three sixty three envelope
slash note online and I found this online ten years ago.
All this said, I wanted to decode that note. I did,
and I'll send that and then the nineteen eighty eight
Donald Zodiac communications to coded to this weekend, which you'll
need to get those over to me because I don't
believe I have those yet. But we're going to take
a look at this envelope. So basically, you stated all
(24:13):
the information that you found on this particular envelope, correct,
So things like Dallas Police Department police Chief Jesse Edward
Curry was the police chief at the time, police Headquarters,
municipal building. And then you allotted a number, obviously to
every single one of these particular letters in the communication,
and that was to make sure that you don't double
(24:34):
use them, right, each one gets allocated with the number, and.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
What's that Okay, just to make sure that I don't
leave anything out. And if I have five hundred symbols,
I better have five hundred matching. So that's why m hm.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
So basically taking all the information from that, you've assigned
it a number. Then you've turned around and you have
created a message, and you've shown us that each one
of the letters in this particular message has been accounted
for via your system and the use of those particular letters.
So you came up with a solve. Do you want
(25:13):
to read that?
Speaker 3 (25:15):
Yeah, I'm going to read the tail end one, the
last one that's kind of like a pinkish and a
whitish at the bottom book, so that this message.
Speaker 2 (25:23):
But I thought, what's this one that says Washington honorable
any New York, New York senator? Okay, so that's where
I'm at right now. This is the envelope, correct.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Yeah, this is just the envelope. And I just am
blown away when I'm finishing this, and anyway, so.
Speaker 2 (25:40):
I hit hits. We don't waste any time.
Speaker 3 (25:43):
Yes, ma'am okay Washington, Honorable, New England, New York, New
York Senator Bobby Kennedy said you missing funny missus Demaggio
am for married one fourteen, nineteen fifty four, and that's
when she was married. And then it says President Kennedy
(26:04):
get Hoppa squad. Next mission is railroad train tracks operator
Lee Bauers Junior. And he's suggesting future over tomorrow's UPI
pretty cherry Joe Bates murder I E. Then after in
year nineteen seventy five in newspaper Whining Nut Gen for
(26:25):
general Manager Dog International Brotherhood, Teamsters Union, Cappuccino lover bum Hoppa,
and then he's saying one I Sat de ec December third,
nineteen sixty three, Lancaster, California. Letter and envelope printed by
an and as No Minescio, Jack Torrance. So that's his handwriting,
(26:46):
printing you did the verification anyways, And then it's describing
what's in there so he can verify whoever decoded this anyways?
United States five cents postage stamp dark blue red, bluish black,
US Scott number twelve forty, Issued date November one, nineteen
(27:07):
sixty three, which is true that the stamp is on
their bureau Printing and Engraving Jory Press, black ink clock
received Dallas Police Maniccipal Building NIX one zero six south
hardwood micro dot t that is in the stamp anyways.
(27:27):
Tuberculosis Support for Tuberculosis Association, National Tuberculosis Association Across of Lorraine,
November twenty second, sixty three. President, this is what was
in the saul President Lincoln's body. Five preforations tippethead plaster
casts ten and a half millimeters by ten and a
(27:49):
half millimeters pictures. He's trying to say what they used
as President Kennedy's pictures anyways, and then it said two
I sent one my handwriting that one version of this
nineteen sixty five Police Department, Dallas, Texas from my city Plains,
Georgia location. And he's saying he did it in secret.
(28:14):
No mansio him e ate military US Navy pay grade.
That's US in pay grade. James Carter, Junior of Georgia
State senator and future president nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 4 (28:29):
It's his all that, Wow, that's crazy.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
So it's basically indicating, I mean, this is obviously two
years after, so it's basically indicating what occurred with JFK.
But then it's talking about the upcoming murder of Sherry
Joe Bates, while stating that eventually in nineteen seventy six,
James Carter Junior is slated to become our next president.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
Yeah, and that's what's showing up in this nineteen sixty
five and it's dated I think postmark January third, nineteen
sixty five. That is when Senator Bobby Kennedy went into
the Hill and started serving as a Senator.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Now, your dad, being in the Merchant Marines way back
in the years, had indicated to you at one point
that the presidency has already been decided upon up to
fifteen years in advance. I think that's something I've heard
you say several times.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
Correct, So what do you do with yah?
Speaker 3 (29:31):
I would argue with them often, and then I didn't
want to argue with them too much. But anyways, yes,
he would say that a lot.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
So basically, we're looking at a twelve year difference or
eleven year difference between when Jimmy Carter is going to
become president and the mention of it in a nineteen
sixty five communication, and that is within the fifteen year timeframe,
and I can kind of see how that they've got
this going as well. I mean, especially with these last
(30:00):
few elections and the you know, Trump getting back into
office and things like that. You can see how they
set this ploy up. Very very interesting. So this is
the actual communication itself, and this is the letter that
was contained inside, and it said, dear sir, I'm writing
you this letter because it is true, and I am
going to prove it when I get out of prison.
I want to tell you this because I can prove it.
(30:25):
Now hold your hat. I know who go there. I know,
And yeah, he's got some interesting handwriting as well. I
know who had JFK shot. Because I was a good
friend of Harry Oswald. Jack Ruby was pay paid to
(30:48):
kill Kennedy by the Lyndon Johnson and Jack Ruby paid
Harry Oswald Kennedy. Jack Ruby promised to meet Harvey All's
at the theater and give him I don't know it
sounds I'm sorry, this must Yeah, it's what Jack Ruby
(31:14):
promised to pay him. So he's basically as almost if
he's trying to say that Jack that Oswald was to
be paid for actually having committed this crime.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
But it's a lot. I started to try to solve
that one, and it ended up being sounding like a
lot of repetitive nonsense, only saying Harvey as Harvey. Also
Harvey Al's well, Harvey Alswald, and that's what was happening
on the TV. So I think it's almost as if
he's saying that the rest, this is the code on
(31:49):
the envelope is the most important, and the rest is
nonsense about Lee Harvey Alswald.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Oh, it's I kept saying Harry and Henry because you
can't read his writing. I'm like, what is he writing here?
My goodness, So, yes, Harvey is so killing Kennedy. Harvey
Oswald wanted me to go to the theater with him,
So he's got all kinds of things going on in
this letter. But you're right, it's very repetitive. He almost
keeps saying the same exact thing over and over again
(32:15):
instead of giving the information we're looking for. And that
takes us actually to this solve that you were saying,
which was more the pinkish color or look, and that
was that the one that you just read.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
The one that I read was a combination of both.
But yeah, I just read that. It's one that stated
three five, and I put the two together because that's
pretty much the best completed sol. But he's trying to
get across and he's assuming again what you identified, right.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
So the only thing we hadn't read out of this
then is section number two, right, I sent my sent
one my handwriting.
Speaker 3 (33:00):
Oh the eyes, I just read that. But yeah, but
that was blowing away. It's saying he's going to be
the president in nineteen seventy six.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Right, more predictory stuff basically, which we've been used to
seeing in this in these cases. All right, well, then
that brings us back to our next We're going to
go right back into some Texas murders again. Everybody, remember
Jack is currently divorced from nort at this point in time.
We don't really see him until a little bit later
(33:30):
where he indicates that he's even working for Hewlett Packard yet,
so again we're still waiting to see that stuff pop up.
But in June seventh of nineteen eighty four, thirty year
old George H. Bud Sager, Junior, West Dallas, Conrod, Texas,
went missing. Sager withdrew money from his bank near IH
forty five and Spring Cypress Road in Spring, Texas. This
(33:51):
is the last time that he was known to have
been seen alive. On July third of nineteen eighty four,
Sager's truck was found abandoned in the parking lot of
the Crossroad Shop Center located the eleven hundred West Dallas Conroe.
Foul play was suspected at the time, and Sager was
never heard from again. So this is more a missing person.
(34:12):
Then we have a school that's found from a missing
person in twenty eleven. In twenty ten, MSCO cold case
detectives obtained DNA from Sager's family members for upload into
the DNA database known as COTIS. In twenty eleven, a
DNA match occurred with a school found in Walker County, Texas.
Investigations revealed that on December eighteenth, nineteen eighty nine, and
(34:33):
individual picking up aluminum cans along FM thirteen seventy five,
approximately nine tenths of a mile west of IH forty
five near Waverley area, discovered the school on the side
of the roadway. The school was found to contain a
shorthand written note stating that an unknown individual had found
the school in the woods but could not get involved.
It appeared that the author of the note had moved
(34:54):
the skull from the woods and placed along the shoulder
of the road where it might be discovered. This it
sounds like don't last to me.
Speaker 3 (35:04):
You know, this is reminding me of a lot of
the other songs that I've done of some of these
cold cases, and I was wondering, how did they know
that that things were moved and position in such a way.
And now you're reading this and it looks like somebody's
trying to stage the crime scene. And if it's decodable,
(35:26):
it might find some more information.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
But that's what Maybe they were just maybe they were
just growing plot in the woods, stumbled across this. It's
not legally in Texas, so they moved this school well
out of the way, because.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Who would they be growing the pot for? Do you know,
uppear it doesn't matter?
Speaker 2 (35:48):
And that's just that's just a hypothetical because it states
that there was a note inside of it said that
the person didn't want to get involved. So if the
person didn't want to get involved, there's there's a reason
why they don't want to get involved. I'm not saying
that they actually were growing pot. I'm just saying what
if and they stumbled across the skull. You're not going
to invite the police up to your location where you
(36:12):
can get busted. You're gonna move it to another place
hoping that somebody gets I guess identified. I don't know.
It'd be interesting to see that note that was inside
the skull.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
Oh, I was pointed to say quickly. A lot of
people say that the CIA the marijuana that they were using,
even if Jack's Era was being grown in certain regions
here and it was being grown for the CIA to
do some weird things diplomatically to get the goods on people.
So you know, somebody like that would not want to.
Speaker 4 (36:45):
Get involved, right right, there's a reason and.
Speaker 3 (36:48):
My apology to the victim.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Yeah, exactly. Well, at least they were able to identify him.
But the interesting part is is that what was it
nineteen eighty six that don Alasis school was found?
Speaker 3 (37:03):
No, they say it was nineteen eighty six, and that's
what seventy decades to get it identified.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
But that's what I've all I asked, was nineteen eighty six,
And yes, nineteen eighty six was when her school was found,
but she went missing in nineteen seventy one. He goes
missing in nineteen eighty four, and his school is found
in nineteen eighty nine, but again by the freeway, which
is pretty much, you know, a central location or a
(37:34):
location near where Donald Lass's school was found as well.
But hers was actually found in the woods June tenth
of nineteen eighty four approximately. Katrina DaCosta in Stockholm, Sweden.
I'm not sure this is back from two thousand and nine.
I just threw in every single unsolved murder I can find,
but we'll talk about it anyways in case it brings
(37:54):
things back up for people to reminisce or research. It
says remains the Swedish prostitutetri to DaCosta on nineteenth of
June nineteen fifty four to nineteen eighty four were found
in Solna, north of Stockholm. In the late summer of
nineteen eighty four. DaCosta had been dismembered, Andy and parts
of her body in plastic bags were found one kilometer
(38:15):
apart on eighteenth of July and the eighth of August.
The case is known as strict more destruck. Oh yeah,
I'm not trying that, guys. It actually means the dismemberment,
murdered trial how to costa diet has not been established
since vital organs, one breast, genitalia and her head have
not even been found. Wow, extremely interesting, extremely brutal. It
(38:42):
did say, I did want to. I think I was
looking at this to research the found heads because the
SLA Manifesto, which we know that the Zodiac wrote a
letter in regards to SLA, is found in Sweden. And
that was an interesting take or cross connection there that
the manifesto for the Symbionese lip Simeonese Liberation Army was
(39:03):
actually located in Sweden. So I wanted to also check
for other Sweden murders just to see if there could
be some type of a cross connection between it. June
twenty first of nineteen eighty four Christine and Bood Riverbrook Drive,
Forest Hill, subdivision of Conrod, Texas. So we're starting to
see a theme right now, this conroa thing is a
(39:24):
lot of these unsolved murders that are occurring. And it
says she was last seen in the parking lot of
the Inverness apartment complex located at four oh three Longmere Road, Conroad, Texas,
at approximately two am same date. An MCSO deputy was
flagged down on I forty five at FM fourteen eighty
eight and alerted to what was thought to be a
(39:44):
body in the roadway. The deputy responded and found the
dead body of Bud lying in the roadway. The subsequent
investigation and subsequent autopsy revealed that she had died from
being struck by a vehicle. Evidence of the scene indicated
that the striking vehicle turned around and reapproached Bud's brought
body prior to fleeing the scene. And this was Conroe
(40:06):
Porter in Springer, All pretty much within thirty to forty
minutes from Humble, Texas, which we will see. Well, we
did with the two thousand five finale letter the Humble
Texas reference, so there could be some cross connections here
as well. But if the last place she was seen
alive was in her parking lot, now she's being run
(40:26):
over on the freeway, I mean, did they take her
there and let her out of the car and then
just proceed to mow her down? And then who is
silly enough after hitting somebody to back up, turn around
and go check them out where to the degree that
they would be seen by somebody. You don't have anything
on Christine bood though, do you no.
Speaker 3 (40:44):
But that's very familiar territory what I've done many many
But so I'm just wondering, is that also Robbert Abel,
because that's the stuff he would do. It's God, but
he got he got his you know.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Yeah, I still get confused because the finale letter said
that that Abel was not the devil that Blue City
or League City Blue Fuzz was looking for in a sense.
And why would a serial killer take credit for a
multitude of different unsolved killing sprees and given out to
(41:27):
somebody like Abel, especially if he was a killer, a
serial killer no less, why would they take away that?
And I want to say that Pat serial one of
the profilers, probably for the FBI or something like that,
was really interested in Able as a potential for being
(41:48):
the suspect. But here we have this taunting letter, which
we know is Zodiac one oh one, stating that he's
not the person you're looking for. So I get a
little confused on that. The Lige twenty night, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3 (42:03):
If I remember right, Pat Syria was doing the BTK
cases at the time and thinking that they were leaks.
And that's also Jack is just you know, trying to
point out that you know, your profile system is squawed,
and and who was in jail at the time over
(42:26):
thinking BTKE Dennis Raider BTK Dennis Raider was a Zodiac.
That was Tom Boyd. He got arrested for some things
that was also Yeah, tom boy got he was trying
he was in that region trying to help prove that
bt K was Zodiac, and Pat Cerria was doing the
(42:50):
the links between the possibilities so that Dennis never Dennis
and a lot of us on the message boards later
on never let tom Voight forget about that one.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
So Tom Boyd got himself arrested while trying to insinuate
that the BTK bomber was the Zodiac, that the bt.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
K killer was the Zodiac, that Dennis Raider was actually
probably the most likely suspect, and he got in trouble
and he got arrested.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Then what does that acronym stand for again, bind, torture, kill, Yeah, gotcha,
and so and then you know he was thinking, Okay,
I got the right.
Speaker 3 (43:37):
He was trying to push a Zodiac suspect, So, yeah,
he got in trouble. So I think Jack is also
trying to point out many ways that your system is flawed,
including this guy who's saying that you know that all
these guys are linked in as one, and.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
We hadn't really seen a lot of buying torture kill
in the acts of the Zodiac Killer, unless you go
all the way back to say Black Dahlia era, you know.
I mean, she clearly looked like she had been tortured
based on all of the damage to her face and
her mouth being cut and all of those things. But
as you got into the Zodiac stuff, you didn't really
(44:16):
see torture so much as a tactic as much as
you saw just blunt force trauma, strangulation and shootings and stabbings.
So I'm not sure why he would think that buying
torture kill would be up the alley of the Zodiac Killer,
especially if he didn't believe that he was involved with
(44:39):
the Black Dolia stuff. Now, if you believe that he
was in part of the Black Dolia stuff, then I
could see, yes, you putting those two together, But I
don't know what his take is on Black Dahlia. Anyways.
We have another murder in Florence in Italy of a
couple on twenty ninth of July nineteen eighty four, law
student Claudio Stefanacci and bar made Pia Gilda Rontini, eighteen,
(45:03):
were shot and stabbed in Stephanie stephan Nazi's Fiat Panda
parked in a wood wood I can't even speak now,
there's so many different versions of language here. Parked in
a woodland area near Viccio. The killer removed Rattini's public
area and left breast pubic area, sorry, and left breast.
(45:24):
So now we have this is This might be why
I put that last one boot in there, because we're
seeing the missing breast and the pubic area. This stuff
is kind of really reminiscent of black Do Yeah, says.
There were reports of a strange man who had been
following the couple in an ice cream parlor some hours
before the murder. A close friend of Rontini called that
(45:45):
she had confided that she had been bothered by an
unpleasant man while working at the bar. That's a very
interesting take, but yeah, I mean removing the pubic area
and the left breast we had. I don't remember which
breast was damaged on black edah. Yeah, but we did
see them manipulate the pubic area and the breast.
Speaker 4 (46:08):
Hmm. Going on here?
Speaker 2 (46:14):
All right, Well that brings us to Laura Miller, and
we've only got about four minutes, so I'm not sure
if we want to hop into this right now or
discuss some of the things that we've been talking about
thus far.
Speaker 3 (46:25):
What do you think, Harriet, Yeah, let's just talk about
well thus far, because there's a lot going on in there,
and it looks like it may You had one of
the victims from from Stockholm, Sweden and the SLA all
(46:47):
that a lot of people were thinking and I was
one of them that the SLA was where you find
James Kilgour, You're going to find the real zodiac and
h and I'm seeing that zodiac is of course just
intel community things and you know, the missing body parts
(47:10):
goes way back and it's disgusting, but it may or
may not always be code. You know, the things that
I'm seeing from the nineteenth century, but also involving Stockholm, Sweden.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
That's because you were saying that the UPI and API
releases would indicate kind of the forensic information on location,
placement of the body, things that were done, what they
were wearing, and use that type of information to actually
decode a solve. Correct.
Speaker 3 (47:46):
Yeah, And I was wondering, how could that be at
two o'clock in the morning that they knew in the
middle of nowhere, let's say Texas or even California, that
the body was moved, And how would they know it
was moved twenty two feet to the north and accept
you know how? And this is where Robert Abel and
his people come in. They were able to take pictures,
(48:07):
and we're seeing it that they were taking pictures from
way above. If they were following these drug dealers and
anybody connected, even if they killed somebody, they were able
to see and watch them because there were pictures constantly
being taken then by our satellites. So then it made
sense to me Ali knew and Jack said that they
(48:28):
killed on a full moon. You were able to see
in the middle of nowhere, Texas. If you've ever been
to Texas and they went there as a kid a
couple of times, in the middle of nowhere and a
full moon, it was almost like daylight.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
So right, he talks about that in one of his letters,
is the Zodiac.
Speaker 3 (48:47):
Being able to That made sense that they were able
to see from the way up above and click, click,
click the pictures and then they would go back and see, well,
the victim was dragged twenty two feet to the north
and it was two o'clock in the morning or to
a forty in the morning.
Speaker 2 (49:04):
And simple, simple forensics also gives you you know where
a person was killed versus where a body was dumped
simply by the lack of blood. We're down to our
last thirty seconds at this point. I think that was
a very interesting take. Thank you, Harriet. I want to
wish everybody a wonderful weekend and we will be back
(49:24):
next Friday. See you.
Speaker 3 (49:26):
Then.
Speaker 4 (49:27):
Thank you Harriet for being here today, and I think
I'll be on visually.
Speaker 3 (49:33):
Okay, see you.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
That'll be awesome. We'll see you then. Take care.
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