August 22, 2025 • 50 mins
Looking into the letters sent to John Walsh by an unknown author identifying as Scorpion. I have found relation to Zodiac signs associated with the Zodiac Killer cases. Libra, Taurus symbols, and now a link to Scorpio. It sounds like an over disclosure by John Walsh to claim that the FBI says these letters are not from the Zodiac Killer. Let’s see how they compare to all the other communications in this presentation.
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Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You should seek the services.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Good Morning, True Seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
To start by welcoming to the show today, Nolan del Campo,
Good morning, everybody, good good morning. And I did just
hear from Lindsay. She said yes, I'm coming, So whenever
she comes in, we'll introduce her into the show. I'm
(01:13):
just starting with some laundring research, as I do each week,
and this last week we had a review posted on
the talk for TV site, which was pleasant. I would
have to say, although anonymous, I would really love to
know who wrote it, and so I'm going to read
this out loud and we'll see if that person is watching,
recognizes and maybe wants to give me a little more information.
(01:37):
So the podcast review was a five star and it
says help, so they titled it help. I have been
startled and impressed by Jack as a Zodiac killer suspect
since two thousand and eight, when I first read about
him after watching the two thousand and five and two
thousand and seven movies about Zodiac.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Please help solve it.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
If he's the guy, If he's Zodiac, don't give up
on getting FBI or police to do DNA tests or
figure out how to at least investigate Jack Moore so
he can be positively identified or ruled out. I interviewed
Robert Ferris, I think is what the person's trying to say.
But they wrote Robert farr Is and wrote an article
(02:16):
online destined for Zodiac websites. I didn't think Alan was
the Zodiac. So the first part of this is them
indicating that they've watched both the movies, and we know
in both the movies that they are clearly still trying
to state that Arthur Lee Allen is the Zodiac as
of two thousand and seven with the Jake Gillenhall version
(02:38):
of Zodiac, and we all know that he is absolutely
not the Zodiac.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
He has been ruled out.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
I want to remind everybody when I was doing the
Aphrodite Jones segment of True Crimes on the Zodiac. I
was put on the phone with Harry Phillips from twenty
on twenty Dennis had called him. He wanted me to
actually hear what Harry Phillips had to say in regards
to two thousand DNA testing that was done on eight suspects,
one of them being Arthur ly Allen, and of course
(03:07):
he was ruled out in that DNA. But when I
got on the phone with Harry Phillips, I asked him
why they didn't test Jack's DNA because we know that
in two thousand Dennis had provided the two envelopes. SFPD
was sitting on one of those envelopes. I think it
took more than a year for them to actually claim
to have processed it. And then they stated that somebody
(03:28):
accidentally mixed the DNA from under the stamp and under
the lip of the envelope and that created two profiles
without being able to correctly identify one of the profiles
to separate that they wouldn't know which portion to attribute
to the DNA of the Zodiac or to compare to
the Zodiac, which I thought was kind of crappy, because
(03:48):
even if you have two profiles, there are either going
to be markers in there that are consistent with the
DNA from the Zodiac where there is not, And I
know that that can get a little shady, But how
many people have the same markers right at the same time.
I don't know what those statistics are either way. When
I asked Harry Phillips why he hadn't done Jack's DNA,
(04:08):
his statement to me was that we knew the other
eight people were not the Zodiac, and he said that
in regards to Arthur Lee Allen. So I want everybody
to realize this. We've got Hollyweird, somebody high up in
media on twenty on twenty that is stating we knew
that the other eight were not the Zodiac, and that
included Arthur Lee Allen. So we do know that despite
(04:32):
the testing that was done on the envelope incorrectly by
the SFPD, we also had heard or been told at
some point in time that the Zodiac DNA samples from
under the stamps showed multiple donors to that DNA as well,
And so that really kind of speaks to what Dennis
had thought, which was that Jack would use this tune
(04:54):
which he would have other people spit in, and he'd
used that to actually seal his envelopes and.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
To apply stamps.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
So even if that gross, it's definitely something that we
expect to see as this combo DNA stuff that's going on.
It's just another way to elude capture or being able
to be identified because we've got so many different hands
in the mix as this group does.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Oh and now I am extremely excited.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
I'm going to be actually sitting in a graphology presentation,
which is the psychological behavioral trading on handwriting, and it
is actually going to be done by a psychologist with
a doctorate, and it's gonna be on the Anthrax letters.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
I'm so excited to enter.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
I'm gonna have my notepad out quickly taking notes to
every personality trait that they find in this handwriting and
then we can see how that compares to Jack and
the Zodiac.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
So I did also get a.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Response we talked last week in regard to my name
is Cipher having been a solve that a Kasmo has gotten.
He did actually send me a video on how he
came to this solve. So we have I've blown up
the url down here so that you can see that
nice and big with the red line underneath it. You
(06:18):
can watch that video yourself. I didn't fully understand it,
but it was interesting to note that he didn't treat
the Tours symbols like a Tours symbol, while he treated
the airy symbol like an airy symbol. And I know
last week we discussed all of the different Zodiac characters
that or signs that were being slipped in and out
(06:42):
as potential clues of the Zodiac communications.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
So you can take a look at that.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
He did actually come up with Texarkana phantom, as if
the Zodiac was trying to tie himself back to Texarkana.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
And we do know that that's something that I believe
is potentially Jack's work as well. Anything to add there to.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
Nolan, No, I had to get a stool. I was
standing up. I'm sorry, but No. The conference that you're going.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
To, yeah, yeah, it's a it's an American Handwriting analysis conference,
and the psychologist is going to be discussing the Anthrax
letters and the personality.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Awesome, I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah, I'm extremely excited about that. It'll be by zoom,
oh zoom.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Okay, maybe I can join in, or at least you're.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Gonna you're gonna be it's gonna be right after my podcast,
You're going to be on your way to court. Okay,
but I will I will, like I said, I'll take
heavy notes. I probably will have a recorded video of
it as well, and see if I can't run some
of what she has to say on the show.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
So we'll go from that.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
Now. Yeah, it's been a couple of years since I
read that Definitive Anthrax book.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Whi's basically says it's still unsolved.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Of course, it is.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
Disagrees with with with the poor guy that committed suicide.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
What was his name, Yeah, Yeahruid.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah. The book says no, I mean, he was a suspect,
but he wasn't.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
A dude exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
It's a good book.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Well, and to take note, I know that she's going
to do letters. I'm hoping that she also works on
the envelopes because I think the envelopes are more representative
of the author's handwriting because the letters themselves were written
in all caps, and they attempted to stay as strict
copy book as possible, of course, in order to deter
anybody from identifying the handwriting. But they did not maintain
(08:40):
that level of disguise on the envelopes. So it'll be
it'll be interesting, and maybe she even has some clearer
images that I haven't seen before. I just don't know
what to expect. I'm like Will Ferrell on back to School.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
I don't know. Is it lace? Is it satin?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Is it something I've never seen before? Well, I had
Tony Daniellie get back with me in regards to the
Christmas card. This is what he wanted to add after
the presentation and our discussion of it. He said the
card was a secret pal style that Zodiac had sent
to the Chronicle during his killing spree in nineteen sixty
(09:17):
eight and sixty nine. Inside the card was a carpenter's
pencil and US postal keys. Now I hadn't heard about
the pencil before, but I think he was meaning pencil flashlights.
So I'm going to go further as we get into
this state room.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Who Daniel Dannelli?
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Who Danniellie?
Speaker 3 (09:36):
I just I know that he is somebody that's either
followed or studied the case.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
He skipped across me.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Friended me on Facebook, and every now and again he
gives me a little bit of information that he is
aware of in regards to the case, and this was
his additive to the Christmas card, he says. Tom Voyd,
the man admittedly obsessed with the Zodiac since childhood and
webmaster of Zodiac killer dot Com, firmly believes a recently
found nineteen ninety Christmas card postmark from Eureka is authentic.
(10:03):
I have been told it is without a doubt Zodiac,
Voight said Saturday. If it's a fake, it's the greatest
fake I've ever seen. Voight, who greeted a packed house
at a screening of the new movie Zodiac at the
Century fourteen in Balao on Thursday, was incensed that the
correspondence was discredited by Lloyd Cunningham, a forensic document examiner. Now,
(10:24):
of course I've come up against Lloyd Cunningham, you guys,
and you all know what I think.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
About how we ti ha.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Cunningham said in Saturday's San Francisco Chronicle that he believes
the card was done by a Zodiac imitator. The designer
of the card was George Shill, a contract artist with
American Greetings Card Company Corporation for thirty eight years, who
informed me that all the imagery on the card, including
the snowman, is exactly as he created it. In other words,
(10:51):
nothing was added to the card outer by the Zodiac killer. George,
who retired several years age, remarked I did create the
card as shown. This correspondence was discovered on March third,
two thousand and seven, by editorial assistant Daniel King of
the San Francisco Chronicle among some photo files. The two
thousand and seven Zodiac movie, directed by David Fincher and
(11:12):
based on the Robert Gray Smith book, was released in
the USA the day before this correspondence was unearthed, on
March second. The movie had its premiere in Los Angeles
and California on March first. The card inter contained a
photocopy of two postal keys supported by a magnet keychain
or pencil flashlight. However, there was no added text on
(11:34):
the card from its center, but we did have the
envelope that was filled out, and the envelope is consistent
with the writing of the Zodiac, the Scorpion letters and
several other communications that we've looked at. And the timing
is kind of correct too, because we see all of
this hustle and bustle to create new communications during ninety
and ninety one.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
So from the time it was set to the time
it was made public. Long period was that.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
It was postmarked nineteen ninety and it was supposedly stuff
somewhere left and forgotten for all of these years, right,
seventeen years. Wow, because it's two thousand and seven. So
but I scream, I'm screaming, and this is great. It
sounds to me like he basically quoted an article or
(12:21):
a newspaper clipping in regards to this information. My contention
here is that it's a great.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Uh media ploy for the movie, right.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
I mean, it's really no different than the Zodiac Watch
coming out during sixty eight and sixty nine. While the
Zodiac begins doing his thing. It's a way to sell yes, yeah,
So was this like, you know, a concerted effort right
and by and by the.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
San Francisco Chronicle.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
No?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Less Right, So we're right back into the hands of
the people who have been making money off of the
media in this story for oh so long. So I'm
not going to discredit that they didn't find it in
two thousand and seven. I just feel like it's awfully
funny or very coincidental that at that same time. That
letter happened to be found the day after the release
of the Jake Gillenhall movie.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Good morning, Lindsay, Good morning. How are y'all? I've been
doing well? Thank you? How about yourself?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Great? Busy?
Speaker 5 (13:19):
Friday?
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Is Friday?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
All over? One court appearance? All ready, one more to go.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
I got I have a the conference, the graphology conference.
I'm not sure if you missed that, Lindsay, but I'm
actually going to be sitting in on a graphological reading
by a psychologist, uh in regards to the anthrax letters.
So I'm oh, my gosh, shoulder dance. Yeah. Uh So
(13:49):
we left off last week on the first communication that
we were sharing with you. In these Scorpion letters, a
series of taunting threats, it says. I've gone through these
letters again and I really can't detect the threat to
John Walsh. I don't see any interest in his son
in these. But we also I also understand that it
looks like we're missing at least two communications and pages
(14:09):
from the communications that we are being publicly shown. And
once again, the John Walsh of America's Most Wanted who
is now working in concert with the FBI, didn't want
the FBI working on his son's case. Thought he could
do you know this on his own. But I really
think that was because he didn't want his skeletons being
popped open by.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
The by the FBI.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
But then turns around and allows the FBI to state
that these letters are not from the Zodiac. And I'm
sorry you guys. We're going to read through these and
I'm telling you, what if this isn't Zodiac, I don't
know what is.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
Yeah, well, Scorpio is like Scorpio Zodiac.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Sorry exactly. Yeah, so we talked about Libra.
Speaker 5 (14:52):
What's that that the artist that made the card says,
that's the original one that he made, so it wasn't
altered that Jack, if it was, Jack came across. You
must have liked the little Jack rabbit by the Snowman
and it was fitting.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Well, and the Halloween card was a Jack o' lantern.
We've got a Christmas card with a Jack rabbit and
it's saying, yes, dude, you know I'm basically I'm still
here and think about the pencil flashlight that was included
in it. Because the Zodiac wrote a letter to the
FBI basically stating that he had taped a flashlight to
(15:32):
the barrel of his gun and that was how he
was able to hit his mark so consistently, And that
would have been a pencil flashlight. And Dennis said that
this was an actual thing that Jack did when hunting,
was tape a pencil flashlight onto his gun. So it's it's.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
All Lake Herman Road for sure. He used that, correct
and maybe.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
To blind him. Yeah, it's to blind them so they
can't see him. But he says, if you point. Jack
told Dennis that once you apply the flashlight to the
top of the barrel of the gun and you point,
there's always a dead spot or a black circle in
the center of the actual light that's coming out of
the flashlight. And if you point that black circle, where
is dead space on your target, then it's wherever that
(16:21):
is pointing at your bullet is going.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
To basically go.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
So he even coached Dennis on how to act accurately
use a flashlight taped to a gun as a.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Sight, so it's like a scope almost.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Basically, Yeah, shoot for the dead center and of the
flashlight image and where the black spot is and you're, yeah,
hitting dead you're hitting bullseye, all right, so this letter
that we were on says.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
I am your worst nightmare coming true.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
My true identity is not known to you yet and
hopefully will not be for a long time. Your show
is more exciting, interesting, and factual than any ship falled
movie or series. I have recently moved into New Jersey
and began a new crime spree. I am currently responsible
for twenty three unsolved crimes ranging from arson to burglary,
(17:10):
to sabotage, homicide and occasional and occasionally everything in between.
I strongly advise that you keep this letter and start
a rather large file, since you will be hearing from
me again. I have enclosed or rather difficultly encoded message
containing information that will prove rather useful to you. This
code took a lot of time and effort to develop
(17:30):
in hopes that it will defeat FBI and CIA codebreakers.
Anything you wish to tell me or ask me can
be conveyed to me on your show. Now, I just
want to mention you guys, is that they say that
you can't really solve these these ciphers.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
If you don't have the key.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
So the person that the ciphers being sent to really
doesn't have a chance in hell, if it's one that
you've made up on your own of solving it unless
you have the key. So I have to I believe
that he is also at some point in time, sent
the key to these individuals in order for them to
actually work these messages out. Why spend all the time,
(18:09):
the heartbreaking and time consuming energy to put these ciphers
together if nobody can ultimately crack them, and did they
probably say who he was? I don't think that. I
don't think so either.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
Yes, just at first glance the letter, but similar to
zodiac letters, the writing, the lants, whatnot.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
And so yeah, it's very consistent with the Christmas card
envelope and they're both very close in timeframe. If this
is in fact done in nineteen ninety one, we really
won't know because they withheld it from us. From us,
I almost thought that this was something that was done
in two thousand and one, as I follow up, because
we know that in two thousand that John Walsh did
(18:52):
the episode on The America's Most Wanted with I want
to say it was with Bart Baggett and Tom Voyd
on the Zodiac case. At the same time, Jack is
asking for John Walsh's book we have the twenty three
victims in the Princeton area from the Anthrax mailings. We
had the postal keys, which I know Harriet claims that
the codes went back to Princeton, New Jersey. I don't
(19:15):
know the truth of that, but again, there's just, you know,
so many people making up stories along with these keys,
and I think that and I'm not sure what time framed.
Tom Voit claims to have also researched or investigated these
postal keys, but he claimed they went back to somebody
in Eureka. And the card was actually postmarched from Eureka.
So maybe those postal keys were from Eureka.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
I just don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Well, and.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Postcard nineteen ninety year? Was that nineteen ninety.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
Yeah, I was up there in eighty eight working for
that Indian Legal Service in Eureka.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Nice living in Arcada, all right, So.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
What were you gonna say?
Speaker 6 (19:57):
He's gonna say the way he wrote scorpion, it looks
like he went over it a few times to make it,
you know, bold, So it's and he does the same
thing like you said on the on the Christmas card
and on the Halloween card.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Too, Right, Yeah, I'm not sure what he had going
on here.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
It's like a felt pin or a sharpie sometimes or
yeah it is thicker.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Well, so he says his identity is not known yet,
no doubt due to the show airing, and it's still
being an unsolved case. On the Zodiac, we know that
Jack requested John Walsh's book. It lists crimes which are
really kind of consistent with the Zodiac saying I'll commit
my murders. They shall look like routine robbery's killings of
(20:45):
anger and a few fake accidents, et cetera, which is
kind of really linguistically close to this line of you
know what he says here in the Scorpion letters and
now I've lost it, oh arson, burglary, sabotage, homicide, and
occasionally everything in between, very similar statements there. The threat
(21:10):
that there will be more is the only threat that
I can actually detect in these communications. And the more
factor is something that the Zodiac has been saying since
way back in the Lipstick killings in nineteen forty five.
Now accepting responsibility for crimes in New Jersey, Zodiac sent
a Christmas card we already talked about that Zodiac was
known to predict his crimes in the future. This may
(21:32):
have been employed to say where he was going next
if he actually if this was actually received in nineteen
ninety one, or if it was received in two thousand
and one and it was just discussing what he had done,
we won't know the actual truth of this matter because
it was withheld and it again doesn't say anything about
John Walsh's son. So I'm assuming that this author is
(21:55):
not contacting John Walsh over his son with these letters.
He's trying to get story told.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Oh yeah, good.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
One went to John Walsh though, right this.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (22:08):
I believe that he wanted to give him a heads
up and let him know, you know, what was going on.
So when he covered these cases, he knew exactly which
way to go and which way to which way to
portray the story?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Right, Well, it says I put in here the superiority
complex over the FBI and cias, and to far stretch
from the superiority complex the Zodiac had on any of
the other law enforcement during his his crimes. There's a
typical proof statement, as Jack is so desperate to do
the splitting of the words in useful and the hyper
(22:42):
fussy use of rather that we see with Jack and
the Zodiac. So a lot of the linguistics that oh,
I got goosebumps just saying that, you guys, Yeah, a
lot of this stuff is very very reminiscent of Jack
and Zodiac.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
And we've got the keys.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
So the key has been a huge theme throughout this
entire psion, leading back to po boxes, which we're going
to hear more about that in these letters as well.
So some of the things that I noted in regards
and this is the cipher that came with that that said, Hi,
remember me.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Now.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
If that isn't a solid follow up statement to the
guess who card for Christmas, I don't know what is.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
He keeps being the same type of taunt.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
So we also have that being said in the Tim
Miller Hello remember me? In the Atlanta, Georgia Murders, like
it just continues to occur. These are the same taunting
writings as the Zodiac.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
And Black Dahlia.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Jack's Tho Boo page one claims twenty three victims shipfalled
is an unusual phrasing noted in The Zodiac and Jack,
whereby he puts two to three words together as a
single word. The word rather as a phrase that was
very common in Zodiac writings, hyphenation usage, which is something
that we've shown over and over again. We have the
oversized K in comparison to the rest of the Middle
(23:56):
Zone letters, and that is definitely a defiant letter where
you know, so psychologically speaking, the person is defined against authority,
has you know, outbursts and can become probably hostile at
any minute. We have the unusual spacing in words, that's
just like Zodiac and Jack he says your worst nightmare,
(24:16):
referencing to he is going to be killing his true
identity is not known. That's the Zodiac ploy. Your show
is more exciting, interesting and factual reference to the show
of Zodiac. And I think we see that that was
also typed up in the Patricia House letter that was
in regards to Sherry Joe Bates way back in the sixties.
(24:36):
We have crimes ranging from arson to burglary to sabotage.
Is listing the styles of killings, just like the Zodiac did.
And he says, start a file you'll be hearing from me,
And that's something that the Black Doll you said and
the Zodiac difficulty difficultly encoded message. Zodiac moved into New
Jersey and began a new crime spree. Reference to wherever
(24:57):
he goes, it is attributed to a separ a crime.
So he literally, i think psychologically separates himself from each
of these crime screes into that particular killer. Yet it
is still all one person or as we've been starting
to see the belief that there is a group that's
involved and that possibly the author is just reporting whatever
(25:18):
it is that the group is done through their communication.
Speaker 6 (25:22):
Yeah, and this may have suspects.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
This cipher here was it did it accompany the letter?
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Yes to my knowledge, and it's completely different sets of
of symbols.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
But one of the things.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
That I would that I was told in regards to
this is this has a lot of Navy flag symbols
in it. This being true, Jack was also in the Navy,
so he would know these flags in these symbols and
these signs.
Speaker 6 (25:53):
And if I'm not mistaken, John Walsh's father was in
the Navy. I have to go back in my book
at home and check.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
But yeah, I think he might be right.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
I feel like that was a well, yeah, we'll let
you follow up on that one.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Let's see, this may.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Be where Jack got the post office box keys that
were sent to law enforcement. This may be the direct
link to Anthrax through Zodiac nineteen ninety Christmas card, New
Jersey has several links of interest for Jack, including Albert
Einstein reference to getting over on the FBI and CIA.
That is just like Lipstick Killer in the Zodiac, you
(26:32):
can contact me through your show desire to be made public,
which I found in Zodiac Plucked Allia Lipstick the finale
letter to Tim Miller and Anthrax. So we start to
see this press here as Jack is getting older, starting
to phase out of killing, and there's this push to
get the story told by the communicator of all.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
Of these messages sober.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
It has a lot of like Egyptians symbolism in it.
Speaker 5 (27:02):
You know, the people at NASA were fascinated by the
Egyptian Old Religion and.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Like the names of their missions are all Egyptian ship.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
I don't well, I did not know that well. In
these code psychological hold on, you guys are talking about.
Speaker 6 (27:26):
Physchological, psychological information and uh deciphers and things. It goes
all the way back to that time. That's where they
got it from. That's where they get this from.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Yeah, I was studying symbols there for a while to
see if I could locate a particular set of symbols
that were being used. I did the script across the
Egyptian symbols. I didn't actually find anything that contained all
the symbols that are in here. But again, that's what
makes the code so unique and unsolvable unless you have
the key.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
So I believe that the FBI either had the key.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Or John wall himself was also handed the key. And
of course we're being presented this cipher because they know
that without the key, there's no way for us to
solve it. All right, So let's see, this is the
second communicator. Well, I don't know if it's the second.
I believe there's approximately five to six. It says a series.
(28:20):
It talks about five different ciphers, so I'm going to
assume that there's at least five different communications. To John Walsh,
this happens to be another one, and this one says it,
and to me it looks like it's page two of
a communication.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
But I don't know that.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Let's see, Okay, so there's the third page, so it
looks like it's page two of three, and we're missing
the first page, And why not show us the first page,
what's in it?
Speaker 4 (28:45):
FBI and John Walsh?
Speaker 3 (28:46):
That you don't want us to make a connection of
this letter starts out, and I hope you guys will
agree with me as I begin to read this that
this is not a complete sentence, which means that there
was another page that began.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
And had more information on it. It says intricate in
the first page.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
That yeah, yeah, it says intricate and difficult to recopy
onto these cards.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
What is we only got a half a sentence.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
My style of handwriting on these cards is very much
altered and controlled in order to throw off graphologists. He
knows about graphology, which is exactly you know the zodiac,
making the claim that he knew about fingerprints, and covering
his fingerprints and covering his handwriting and using a different hand.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
In the Atlanta Georgia writings.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Like the over and over again, we're being told how
he can con people with his communications. He says, I
would much rather communicate with you with letters sent between us,
but you and your over anxious associates would try to
nail me even if I used a po box. There's
our po box reference. And we've seen this over and
over again for a return address. This would create a
(30:05):
rather messy situation since I do not plan to be
taken alive, if at all, and I truly believe in
the use of superior firepower. This creates a problem for
our communication since the only way I can communicate with
you is by letter and possibly phone, and your only
safe medium in both of our best interests is your
informative and helpful show. Consider this your second and definitely
(30:29):
last chance, since I will be I will soon start
collecting bodies, collecting bodies, collecting slaves.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
I think that it runs pretty tandem.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Yeah, and he says, start collecting bodies for you, he says,
So he's telling John Walsh, I'm gonna start collecting bodies
for you to prove that this is not a prank.
Hopefully for you, no one will expose themselves to me
as an easy target. Zodiac one oh one thing ding
(31:00):
for my ever growing anger before I get a chance
to hear from you. I now realize, with many hundreds
of hours, we're gonna stop that there, and I'm gonna
tell you some of the things that I find interesting
in here, so we have helpful and informative show. And
this is a Zodiac's general statements in the Patricia Houts
letter and to Tom Voight, always referencing something in the media,
(31:23):
and the confession that these letters are painstakingly done in
order to disguise from graphology, which explains why we why
we see missing attributes and added attributes. The finale letter
the Zodiac Jack Terrence's multiple styles of writing, says he
would communicate by letters, but they would track it back
to him through the po box, which is a reference
(31:43):
connecting the Christmas card through the post office box keys.
Also a statement is similar to those made by many
of the communications in these different crimes Frees. He says
it's messy, and he uses rather again he's incorrectly spells
very with two rs, which is that double level spelling
error that we've seen so often and it's now.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Attributed to disguise.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
So he says, start with the collecting of bodies, and
the statement that hopefully no one makes themselves an easy target.
Uh and an ever growing anger, which is definitely a
statement from the Zodiac who's anger.
Speaker 6 (32:17):
And I want to stop you there too on that
last statement that you just said. That is his way.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
Of controlling John Walsh and letting him.
Speaker 6 (32:26):
Know, like, if anyone gets information that they're not supposed
to get or they are on a trail that they're
not supposed to go on, then it's gonna be somebody
in your circle that's gonna be taken out. And I
can show you, and I will show you and that
you know, this is how I'm gonna control you. And
this is what you're gonna do. You're gonna only you know,
(32:49):
oh sorry, this is a weird noise You're only gonna
talk about in your show such and such.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
You know, if you go towards this way, then it's
going to be.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Well.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
I do understand the threat that if he.
Speaker 5 (33:07):
Basically he's trying to influence the content of Walsh's show.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
And what Walsh's actions good.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Well, but I don't think that he actively did because
I don't recall shows and not that I've watched every
single America's Most Wanted there is, but I don't recall
shows where John Walsh was addressing any of this man's
intentions on his show, because otherwise he would have had
to have told us about these letters when they occurred.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
I mean, I know it was all secret, I believe.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Yeah, so it is if he isn't playing into the
hand of this individual, then where is these twenty three bodies?
I could not find twenty three murders unsolved murders in
New Jersey during the nineteen nineties. The only thing I
really saw that was substantial in the New Jersey area
was the anthrax mailings, which encompassed something like seventeen people
(34:00):
or twenty some people.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Which was consistent.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
So who and where are these twenty and he's saying,
I'm giving this to you as proof? So they must
have been able to track down either the work that
he had done or he did commit some type of
crime to prove up that these letters were truly from
this individual. I just don't know where to go with
you know them withholding information from us and not making.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
It clear what was involved with all of these letters.
Speaker 6 (34:26):
Well, and another another example would be not necessarily covering
up for the Zodiac, but for his associates as well,
which we do know. John Walsh was very well known
to cover a lot of a lot of the cartel,
a lot of the Iran contrast, people that went on
(34:47):
the run, many people and that were on the run
in New York and of that way. As far as
like you know, there's big names that he covered that
I'm pretty sure the Zodiac knew and uh you know
they communicated with because I think that he was a
part of all this, all these crazy murder sprees, you know,
(35:11):
in the nineteen nineties, in the eighties and early two thousands.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
Well, it's interesting that you met mentioned the Iron.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Affair, Yehaus Bush was. Bush was implicated in that and
parted the last person who was on trial for it
so that his name didn't get brought up because he
likely could have been indicted for it. So we have
John Walsh covering the information of people involved in it,
but I don't know that he ever covered the bushes.
Speaker 6 (35:39):
Well, how about this, He also pardoned Bush also pardoned
autist Tool of the Dead h.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
Yes he did.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
And Otis O'Toole was supposably the number one suspect on John.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
Walsh's h Adam mart yep. But O'Toole is.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Taking him and Henry Lee lucas we now know, is
one of those gigantic jokes just taking I think that
law enforcement or the rangers, the Texas Rangers, really thought
that they could close two hundred and some murders across
the United states that I believe are associated to this
group by just simply having O'Toole and Lucas admit to
(36:18):
these murders and then providing them the information that they
needed to be able to look like they knew what
they were talking about and had inside information that nobody
else would have.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
But it was really just being fed to them.
Speaker 7 (36:30):
So how Tool, oh yeah, and then Tool, even in
the courtroom, Tool literally sat on camera like, this is
a joke.
Speaker 6 (36:41):
They gave me the information, you know. I was told
to read the pages that they gave me, like, this
is not me. I'm trying to tell y'all. And he
would just like laugh and giggle about it. So it
kind of was like a joke and people really didn't
believe him, but he really was telling the truth.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
Well that's his low level mentality he would have.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
You know, I would think that the anxiety of the
whole entire mess because his maturity level was so low. Yeah,
if he did, his last name was properly fitting for him.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Tool.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
He was a Tool, I know.
Speaker 6 (37:15):
And that's even that's another irony of it.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
It's just crazy.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Here's here's the third page to this communication. It says,
and of course we finished off. I now realized, with
many hundreds of hours of mind racking experimentation with my
complex ciphers, that my first one that I sent you
was comparatively simple to my second, third, fourth, and now
temporarily final cryptograph system. So that would inticate to me
(37:43):
at least five communications. And that's if every single communication
came with the cipher. If he sent communications that didn't
include ciphers, there could be possibly more communications. To John Walsh,
he says, I have been encoding useful information for your
use and have done it fairly since all my ciphers
can be decoded simply once the limited patterns and systems
(38:06):
are discovered, I haven't closed another cipher for you to
deal with.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
See you in El Amigo scorpion.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
See where to go?
Speaker 6 (38:19):
Wow, Well that's that's uh, you know, kind of Hispanic lingo,
you know, and John Wish was very familiar with that
Hispanic lingo because of how Florida was had a lot
of Cubans and a lot of Venezuelans and a lot
(38:39):
of uh Mexican Mexicans like uh. And that's literally the
main the main portal that went all the way up
to the United States with the iron contra contra affair.
Speaker 5 (38:54):
So quick question the scorpion, who is like a little
ink blotch below it?
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Do you attribute any significance to that?
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Well, we've seen a lot of that doodling and blood
dropping imitation in the Zodiac letters.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
They like a drop of blood or something.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
Yeah, we had the dripping pen with blood.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
We had the doodles that that gray Smith actually had
removed from a letter that he had published in his
first book. In a second book, he had those little
doodles removed. But we saw that also on the Tit
Willow communication from the Zodiac, where he drew these little
circle they almost looked like a little sperm, the little
(39:39):
circles with little tails on them that he was, you know,
inco or basically like he was just maybe even having
a thought process where he was doodling while he was
doing it.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
But it almost looks like a stinger.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
It almost looks like the tip of the scorpion's tail
of that eye. Right, So I really I don't know
what to make of it other than yeah, we've seen
the doodling, We've seen the heavy.
Speaker 5 (40:06):
Yeah, it's hard to decipher it, but it has to
have some sort of significance.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
He does everything for a.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Reason, right, yeah, right, Well, so the page this is
the page two or three of three is a complex
cipher reference to five ciphers and cryptograph systems, each one
becoming even harder. Zodiac accounts for three in the final
two are sent as scorpion. So I had wondered at
this point in time if that wasn't the entire five,
(40:35):
and that when he stated that he had sent five,
that they were ciphers he had sent in other areas.
But I want to say that we also had four
ciphers from the zodiac, and now we've got two here,
So that wouldn't make sense. So he must have sent
five individual ciphers to John Walsh.
Speaker 4 (40:51):
He does put the word useful go ahead.
Speaker 5 (40:55):
Is there any way to put pressure on whoever to
get that first bay or to find out if it exists?
Speaker 2 (41:02):
It has to exist, because the second page is a
broken and.
Speaker 6 (41:05):
Then yeah, and then again the in the Adam Boss
case bout that was the first page uh in there.
It was like it was like that that they just
put those pieces in there.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Yeah yeah, well and it's like that it's like that
person who gave the review on Jack as the zodiac
indicating that we should put pressure on the FBI and
law enforcement to do the DNA testing on Jack. We
know that the FBI is in position of a second
envelope and they they, I would hope not make the.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
Same mistake that they did with the first.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
One, where a s FPD combined the DNA samples from
under the lip of the envelope and the stamp. But
with them, with the FBI still in a possession of
one of Jack's envelopes, there should be testing on this
and why didn't the FBI do this? They I know
that the the agents that were working with Dennis spent
lots of hours with Dennis tracking down lots of leads,
(41:58):
following up on lots of evidence that Jack Gay or
Dennis gave him. Why in the world did they not
do the DNA testing. They traveled all the way down
to Doris Rental Reynolds after I found out that she
was willing to speak, and I wanted to get hers
and Danny Reynolds DNA because Dennis thought that there was
a possibility that Danny Reynolds DNA would have been found
(42:18):
on these envelopes. The FBI claims that they went down
there and found her, you know, basically incoherent in some
type of arrest home, and that she was unable to speak,
and they couldn't simply just get Danny Reynolds DNA to
make a comparison, which I think is bs because he's
been in and out of jail all of his life
and he was likely in her in jail at that moment.
(42:39):
Either way, if you're going to go all the way
down there to meet up with Doris Reynolds.
Speaker 6 (42:44):
And they're still a sigarette but or something like or
you know, whether they smoked or not, or a bottle
of water.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
It's more It's more my point that if you're going
to make that trip and use those resources to go down.
Speaker 4 (42:58):
There and do that, why not test that last st envelope?
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Why not get the palm print from Sonoma County PD
or Sheriff's Department that was given by Dennis to Officer
Brown out there. Why not get that poem print and
do those comparisons. That officer, to my knowledge, was never
capable of doing a comparison of the fingerprints and palm
print of Jack, which we have to the palm print
(43:21):
at SFPD because they just weren't playing the game with anybody,
So yeah, putting the pressure on them is something Dennis
evidently attempted to do and it was a huge failure,
epic failure. And why and why would Harry Phillips say,
we knew that the other eight people were not the Zodiac,
So what are you saying you know that Jack is
or you're afraid that investigating him may prove that he was.
(43:43):
And this is going to lead back to people who
are very much still alive that could be harm in
regards to it.
Speaker 6 (43:49):
Well, it's the same concept with Epstein and them not
releasing things because there's certain things in there that they
don't that will implicate a lot of people and they
don't want it to you know, people to know. It's sad,
feel like it's the same thing with the Zodiac. There
were so many, you know, people involved in this group
and who knew about it. Whether they participate or not,
they still knew about it and with held withheld information,
(44:11):
it would implicate a lot of people. And so they
just want to keep playing games and you know, act
like they're doing something about it and they're not.
Speaker 4 (44:20):
And when they're not, because they already know.
Speaker 5 (44:22):
Who he is there were contacts in hide places then
knew about it.
Speaker 4 (44:28):
And he knew a lot of different people.
Speaker 3 (44:30):
Yeah, so here we have this next cipher that also
came along with this three page letter and oh well
I needed to finish up obviously. Line eight was the
word useful. Spacing is consistent with Zodiac and Jack Terrence
and the ceeu in how amigo reference is Again, I
(44:52):
don't know if he's saying amigo to make it look
like this.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
He might be.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
Hispanic, but we know that there were at least a
couple of times he pretended to be a faction or
a different culture than American. But we can see by
the use of the language here that English is this
person's first language. So definitely probably or probably not Hispanic
would be my guest.
Speaker 4 (45:14):
Yeah, well ago too.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
It's the term.
Speaker 5 (45:17):
It's it's Spanish, but you know, but it's also a
textan terms Texas part of Mexico. That's what I was
just gonna say a little bit to uh, your asses
of bragg. Yeah, they're like cowboys, you know, but they're
writing ones writing a donkey.
Speaker 4 (45:38):
Yes, that's the meo.
Speaker 5 (45:40):
It's kind of like a clue back to that. That's
the method. They liked Jack or whoever the group is.
They like to give clues to past events and passed
cards and past communications.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
That's how I put it all together, going through these
these communications with people popping up out of the woodworks,
being anonymous, sending me new communications and different crime sprees,
and then falling off the face of the earth. I
always had to wonder, why why did you come in
just to disappear? I mean, did you really want me
to solve this or you leaving it up to me
to figure everything out? And really it was just about
putting the communications together and determining if the handwriting was
(46:20):
the same, which we have included the Scorpion letters in
that handwriting examination that was done way back, and I
want to say we were in like the nine hundreds.
We are now in twenty five hundred and fifty three
slides of this presentation, so more than halfway back. We
did the handwriting comparison of all of the letters so
that I could get that done and out of the
way for people. Well, that brings us to a letter
(46:43):
that Lindsay has sent to me, and this comes out
of the John Walsh files.
Speaker 4 (46:48):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Yeah, so this was an interesting letter. It says congratulation
on your Oh goodness, I guess I should have your
poor police diplomacy. So congratulations on your police diplomacy. Adam
(47:09):
Walsh suffered, not you. Adam was dead only two to
three days. Forensics know a a dead Oh gosh, I
probably should have typed this up ahead of time, because
it's going to take some time to cipher a dead
decomposed in water, especially when it's a bloody mess being
(47:37):
fed on by water creatures. So this individual is probably
just trying to comment. Have you read this letter, Lindsay,
for what it's worth and what did you find that
you thought was.
Speaker 4 (47:50):
Interesting about it?
Speaker 6 (47:54):
Just how much information they knew and how it was
talking about the police, you know, in their dirty work
and sin I believe it also talks about uh investigating
certain people and the distrib distribution of of certain things.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (48:25):
Who's the letter to, Well, it looks like it went
to the police department because it says congratulations on your
poor police diplomacy. So I think what I'll do is
we're at it. We're at the end of our segment
right now, We've got about a minute left. So I
think what I'll do is I'll go ahead and type
this up so that I can easily read it for
the viewers. Uh, and then we can revisit this particular
(48:46):
letter and the other one that you sent me next week.
How about that, lindsay, Yeah, okay, well yeah, that literally,
unless you guys have anything to add puts us pretty much.
Speaker 4 (48:57):
I want to tell you a little, a little.
Speaker 6 (49:00):
Uh information I learned of when I was researching just
Lame's Maxwell's father and his suspicious death and all that.
So apparently he was I don't know.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
If we have time for that, because we're literally counting down.
We have less than thirty seconds if you can get
it out in less.
Speaker 6 (49:20):
Than okay, yeah, yeah, So he was funded by Ears Israel,
and Israel pretty much had a hand in all of
his media stuff like that. So, in other words, so
when he died, it was passed down to Epstein.
Speaker 4 (49:34):
Oh ay, creaked all.
Speaker 3 (49:36):
Right, So I want to pick that up next week.
Then everybody have a wonderful weekend. Thank you both for
being here. We will see you guys next Friday.
Speaker 8 (49:44):
See yah, good weeks you too
Speaker 2 (50:03):
And family.
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You should seek the services.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Good Morning, True Seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
To start by welcoming to the show today, Nolan del Campo,
Good morning, everybody, good good morning. And I did just
hear from Lindsay. She said yes, I'm coming, So whenever
she comes in, we'll introduce her into the show. I'm
(01:13):
just starting with some laundring research, as I do each week,
and this last week we had a review posted on
the talk for TV site, which was pleasant. I would
have to say, although anonymous, I would really love to
know who wrote it, and so I'm going to read
this out loud and we'll see if that person is watching,
recognizes and maybe wants to give me a little more information.
(01:37):
So the podcast review was a five star and it
says help, so they titled it help. I have been
startled and impressed by Jack as a Zodiac killer suspect
since two thousand and eight, when I first read about
him after watching the two thousand and five and two
thousand and seven movies about Zodiac.
Speaker 4 (01:55):
Please help solve it.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
If he's the guy, If he's Zodiac, don't give up
on getting FBI or police to do DNA tests or
figure out how to at least investigate Jack Moore so
he can be positively identified or ruled out. I interviewed
Robert Ferris, I think is what the person's trying to say.
But they wrote Robert farr Is and wrote an article
(02:16):
online destined for Zodiac websites. I didn't think Alan was
the Zodiac. So the first part of this is them
indicating that they've watched both the movies, and we know
in both the movies that they are clearly still trying
to state that Arthur Lee Allen is the Zodiac as
of two thousand and seven with the Jake Gillenhall version
(02:38):
of Zodiac, and we all know that he is absolutely
not the Zodiac.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
He has been ruled out.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
I want to remind everybody when I was doing the
Aphrodite Jones segment of True Crimes on the Zodiac. I
was put on the phone with Harry Phillips from twenty
on twenty Dennis had called him. He wanted me to
actually hear what Harry Phillips had to say in regards
to two thousand DNA testing that was done on eight suspects,
one of them being Arthur ly Allen, and of course
(03:07):
he was ruled out in that DNA. But when I
got on the phone with Harry Phillips, I asked him
why they didn't test Jack's DNA because we know that
in two thousand Dennis had provided the two envelopes. SFPD
was sitting on one of those envelopes. I think it
took more than a year for them to actually claim
to have processed it. And then they stated that somebody
(03:28):
accidentally mixed the DNA from under the stamp and under
the lip of the envelope and that created two profiles
without being able to correctly identify one of the profiles
to separate that they wouldn't know which portion to attribute
to the DNA of the Zodiac or to compare to
the Zodiac, which I thought was kind of crappy, because
(03:48):
even if you have two profiles, there are either going
to be markers in there that are consistent with the
DNA from the Zodiac where there is not, And I
know that that can get a little shady, But how
many people have the same markers right at the same time.
I don't know what those statistics are either way. When
I asked Harry Phillips why he hadn't done Jack's DNA,
(04:08):
his statement to me was that we knew the other
eight people were not the Zodiac, and he said that
in regards to Arthur Lee Allen. So I want everybody
to realize this. We've got Hollyweird, somebody high up in
media on twenty on twenty that is stating we knew
that the other eight were not the Zodiac, and that
included Arthur Lee Allen. So we do know that despite
(04:32):
the testing that was done on the envelope incorrectly by
the SFPD, we also had heard or been told at
some point in time that the Zodiac DNA samples from
under the stamps showed multiple donors to that DNA as well,
And so that really kind of speaks to what Dennis
had thought, which was that Jack would use this tune
(04:54):
which he would have other people spit in, and he'd
used that to actually seal his envelopes and.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
To apply stamps.
Speaker 3 (05:03):
So even if that gross, it's definitely something that we
expect to see as this combo DNA stuff that's going on.
It's just another way to elude capture or being able
to be identified because we've got so many different hands
in the mix as this group does.
Speaker 4 (05:21):
Oh and now I am extremely excited.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
I'm going to be actually sitting in a graphology presentation,
which is the psychological behavioral trading on handwriting, and it
is actually going to be done by a psychologist with
a doctorate, and it's gonna be on the Anthrax letters.
Speaker 4 (05:41):
I'm so excited to enter.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
I'm gonna have my notepad out quickly taking notes to
every personality trait that they find in this handwriting and
then we can see how that compares to Jack and
the Zodiac.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
So I did also get a.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
Response we talked last week in regard to my name
is Cipher having been a solve that a Kasmo has gotten.
He did actually send me a video on how he
came to this solve. So we have I've blown up
the url down here so that you can see that
nice and big with the red line underneath it. You
(06:18):
can watch that video yourself. I didn't fully understand it,
but it was interesting to note that he didn't treat
the Tours symbols like a Tours symbol, while he treated
the airy symbol like an airy symbol. And I know
last week we discussed all of the different Zodiac characters
that or signs that were being slipped in and out
(06:42):
as potential clues of the Zodiac communications.
Speaker 4 (06:45):
So you can take a look at that.
Speaker 3 (06:47):
He did actually come up with Texarkana phantom, as if
the Zodiac was trying to tie himself back to Texarkana.
Speaker 4 (06:54):
And we do know that that's something that I believe
is potentially Jack's work as well. Anything to add there to.
Speaker 5 (07:02):
Nolan, No, I had to get a stool. I was
standing up. I'm sorry, but No. The conference that you're going.
Speaker 3 (07:11):
To, yeah, yeah, it's a it's an American Handwriting analysis conference,
and the psychologist is going to be discussing the Anthrax
letters and the personality.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Awesome, I'm sure.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
Yeah, I'm extremely excited about that. It'll be by zoom,
oh zoom.
Speaker 5 (07:31):
Okay, maybe I can join in, or at least you're.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Gonna you're gonna be it's gonna be right after my podcast,
You're going to be on your way to court. Okay,
but I will I will, like I said, I'll take
heavy notes. I probably will have a recorded video of
it as well, and see if I can't run some
of what she has to say on the show.
Speaker 4 (07:50):
So we'll go from that.
Speaker 5 (07:53):
Now. Yeah, it's been a couple of years since I
read that Definitive Anthrax book.
Speaker 2 (07:59):
Whi's basically says it's still unsolved.
Speaker 4 (08:02):
Of course, it is.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
Disagrees with with with the poor guy that committed suicide.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
What was his name, Yeah, Yeahruid.
Speaker 2 (08:10):
Yeah. The book says no, I mean, he was a suspect,
but he wasn't.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
A dude exactly.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
It's a good book.
Speaker 3 (08:19):
Well, and to take note, I know that she's going
to do letters. I'm hoping that she also works on
the envelopes because I think the envelopes are more representative
of the author's handwriting because the letters themselves were written
in all caps, and they attempted to stay as strict
copy book as possible, of course, in order to deter
anybody from identifying the handwriting. But they did not maintain
(08:40):
that level of disguise on the envelopes. So it'll be
it'll be interesting, and maybe she even has some clearer
images that I haven't seen before. I just don't know
what to expect. I'm like Will Ferrell on back to School.
Speaker 4 (08:53):
I don't know. Is it lace? Is it satin?
Speaker 3 (08:56):
Is it something I've never seen before? Well, I had
Tony Daniellie get back with me in regards to the
Christmas card. This is what he wanted to add after
the presentation and our discussion of it. He said the
card was a secret pal style that Zodiac had sent
to the Chronicle during his killing spree in nineteen sixty
(09:17):
eight and sixty nine. Inside the card was a carpenter's
pencil and US postal keys. Now I hadn't heard about
the pencil before, but I think he was meaning pencil flashlights.
So I'm going to go further as we get into
this state room.
Speaker 2 (09:31):
Who Daniel Dannelli?
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Who Danniellie?
Speaker 3 (09:36):
I just I know that he is somebody that's either
followed or studied the case.
Speaker 4 (09:39):
He skipped across me.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Friended me on Facebook, and every now and again he
gives me a little bit of information that he is
aware of in regards to the case, and this was
his additive to the Christmas card, he says. Tom Voyd,
the man admittedly obsessed with the Zodiac since childhood and
webmaster of Zodiac killer dot Com, firmly believes a recently
found nineteen ninety Christmas card postmark from Eureka is authentic.
(10:03):
I have been told it is without a doubt Zodiac,
Voight said Saturday. If it's a fake, it's the greatest
fake I've ever seen. Voight, who greeted a packed house
at a screening of the new movie Zodiac at the
Century fourteen in Balao on Thursday, was incensed that the
correspondence was discredited by Lloyd Cunningham, a forensic document examiner. Now,
(10:24):
of course I've come up against Lloyd Cunningham, you guys,
and you all know what I think.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
About how we ti ha.
Speaker 3 (10:31):
Cunningham said in Saturday's San Francisco Chronicle that he believes
the card was done by a Zodiac imitator. The designer
of the card was George Shill, a contract artist with
American Greetings Card Company Corporation for thirty eight years, who
informed me that all the imagery on the card, including
the snowman, is exactly as he created it. In other words,
(10:51):
nothing was added to the card outer by the Zodiac killer. George,
who retired several years age, remarked I did create the
card as shown. This correspondence was discovered on March third,
two thousand and seven, by editorial assistant Daniel King of
the San Francisco Chronicle among some photo files. The two
thousand and seven Zodiac movie, directed by David Fincher and
(11:12):
based on the Robert Gray Smith book, was released in
the USA the day before this correspondence was unearthed, on
March second. The movie had its premiere in Los Angeles
and California on March first. The card inter contained a
photocopy of two postal keys supported by a magnet keychain
or pencil flashlight. However, there was no added text on
(11:34):
the card from its center, but we did have the
envelope that was filled out, and the envelope is consistent
with the writing of the Zodiac, the Scorpion letters and
several other communications that we've looked at. And the timing
is kind of correct too, because we see all of
this hustle and bustle to create new communications during ninety
and ninety one.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
So from the time it was set to the time
it was made public. Long period was that.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
It was postmarked nineteen ninety and it was supposedly stuff
somewhere left and forgotten for all of these years, right,
seventeen years. Wow, because it's two thousand and seven. So
but I scream, I'm screaming, and this is great. It
sounds to me like he basically quoted an article or
(12:21):
a newspaper clipping in regards to this information. My contention
here is that it's a great.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Uh media ploy for the movie, right.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
I mean, it's really no different than the Zodiac Watch
coming out during sixty eight and sixty nine. While the
Zodiac begins doing his thing. It's a way to sell yes, yeah,
So was this like, you know, a concerted effort right
and by and by the.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
San Francisco Chronicle.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
No?
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Less Right, So we're right back into the hands of
the people who have been making money off of the
media in this story for oh so long. So I'm
not going to discredit that they didn't find it in
two thousand and seven. I just feel like it's awfully
funny or very coincidental that at that same time. That
letter happened to be found the day after the release
of the Jake Gillenhall movie.
Speaker 4 (13:12):
Good morning, Lindsay, Good morning. How are y'all? I've been
doing well? Thank you? How about yourself?
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Great? Busy?
Speaker 5 (13:19):
Friday?
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Is Friday?
Speaker 2 (13:22):
All over? One court appearance? All ready, one more to go.
Speaker 3 (13:28):
I got I have a the conference, the graphology conference.
I'm not sure if you missed that, Lindsay, but I'm
actually going to be sitting in on a graphological reading
by a psychologist, uh in regards to the anthrax letters.
So I'm oh, my gosh, shoulder dance. Yeah. Uh So
(13:49):
we left off last week on the first communication that
we were sharing with you. In these Scorpion letters, a
series of taunting threats, it says. I've gone through these
letters again and I really can't detect the threat to
John Walsh. I don't see any interest in his son
in these. But we also I also understand that it
looks like we're missing at least two communications and pages
(14:09):
from the communications that we are being publicly shown. And
once again, the John Walsh of America's Most Wanted who
is now working in concert with the FBI, didn't want
the FBI working on his son's case. Thought he could
do you know this on his own. But I really
think that was because he didn't want his skeletons being
popped open by.
Speaker 4 (14:28):
The by the FBI.
Speaker 3 (14:30):
But then turns around and allows the FBI to state
that these letters are not from the Zodiac. And I'm
sorry you guys. We're going to read through these and
I'm telling you, what if this isn't Zodiac, I don't
know what is.
Speaker 5 (14:41):
Yeah, well, Scorpio is like Scorpio Zodiac.
Speaker 4 (14:46):
Sorry exactly. Yeah, so we talked about Libra.
Speaker 5 (14:52):
What's that that the artist that made the card says,
that's the original one that he made, so it wasn't
altered that Jack, if it was, Jack came across. You
must have liked the little Jack rabbit by the Snowman
and it was fitting.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (15:10):
Well, and the Halloween card was a Jack o' lantern.
We've got a Christmas card with a Jack rabbit and
it's saying, yes, dude, you know I'm basically I'm still
here and think about the pencil flashlight that was included
in it. Because the Zodiac wrote a letter to the
FBI basically stating that he had taped a flashlight to
(15:32):
the barrel of his gun and that was how he
was able to hit his mark so consistently, And that
would have been a pencil flashlight. And Dennis said that
this was an actual thing that Jack did when hunting,
was tape a pencil flashlight onto his gun. So it's it's.
Speaker 2 (15:48):
All Lake Herman Road for sure. He used that, correct
and maybe.
Speaker 3 (15:57):
To blind him. Yeah, it's to blind them so they
can't see him. But he says, if you point. Jack
told Dennis that once you apply the flashlight to the
top of the barrel of the gun and you point,
there's always a dead spot or a black circle in
the center of the actual light that's coming out of
the flashlight. And if you point that black circle, where
is dead space on your target, then it's wherever that
(16:21):
is pointing at your bullet is going.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
To basically go.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
So he even coached Dennis on how to act accurately
use a flashlight taped to a gun as a.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Sight, so it's like a scope almost.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Basically, Yeah, shoot for the dead center and of the
flashlight image and where the black spot is and you're, yeah,
hitting dead you're hitting bullseye, all right, so this letter
that we were on says.
Speaker 4 (16:47):
I am your worst nightmare coming true.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
My true identity is not known to you yet and
hopefully will not be for a long time. Your show
is more exciting, interesting, and factual than any ship falled
movie or series. I have recently moved into New Jersey
and began a new crime spree. I am currently responsible
for twenty three unsolved crimes ranging from arson to burglary,
(17:10):
to sabotage, homicide and occasional and occasionally everything in between.
I strongly advise that you keep this letter and start
a rather large file, since you will be hearing from
me again. I have enclosed or rather difficultly encoded message
containing information that will prove rather useful to you. This
code took a lot of time and effort to develop
(17:30):
in hopes that it will defeat FBI and CIA codebreakers.
Anything you wish to tell me or ask me can
be conveyed to me on your show. Now, I just
want to mention you guys, is that they say that
you can't really solve these these ciphers.
Speaker 4 (17:46):
If you don't have the key.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
So the person that the ciphers being sent to really
doesn't have a chance in hell, if it's one that
you've made up on your own of solving it unless
you have the key. So I have to I believe
that he is also at some point in time, sent
the key to these individuals in order for them to
actually work these messages out. Why spend all the time,
(18:09):
the heartbreaking and time consuming energy to put these ciphers
together if nobody can ultimately crack them, and did they
probably say who he was? I don't think that. I
don't think so either.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
Yes, just at first glance the letter, but similar to
zodiac letters, the writing, the lants, whatnot.
Speaker 3 (18:30):
And so yeah, it's very consistent with the Christmas card
envelope and they're both very close in timeframe. If this
is in fact done in nineteen ninety one, we really
won't know because they withheld it from us. From us,
I almost thought that this was something that was done
in two thousand and one, as I follow up, because
we know that in two thousand that John Walsh did
(18:52):
the episode on The America's Most Wanted with I want
to say it was with Bart Baggett and Tom Voyd
on the Zodiac case. At the same time, Jack is
asking for John Walsh's book we have the twenty three
victims in the Princeton area from the Anthrax mailings. We
had the postal keys, which I know Harriet claims that
the codes went back to Princeton, New Jersey. I don't
(19:15):
know the truth of that, but again, there's just, you know,
so many people making up stories along with these keys,
and I think that and I'm not sure what time framed.
Tom Voit claims to have also researched or investigated these
postal keys, but he claimed they went back to somebody
in Eureka. And the card was actually postmarched from Eureka.
So maybe those postal keys were from Eureka.
Speaker 4 (19:36):
I just don't know.
Speaker 3 (19:38):
Well, and.
Speaker 4 (19:40):
Postcard nineteen ninety year? Was that nineteen ninety.
Speaker 5 (19:45):
Yeah, I was up there in eighty eight working for
that Indian Legal Service in Eureka.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Nice living in Arcada, all right, So.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
What were you gonna say?
Speaker 6 (19:57):
He's gonna say the way he wrote scorpion, it looks
like he went over it a few times to make it,
you know, bold, So it's and he does the same
thing like you said on the on the Christmas card
and on the Halloween card.
Speaker 4 (20:12):
Too, Right, Yeah, I'm not sure what he had going
on here.
Speaker 5 (20:16):
It's like a felt pin or a sharpie sometimes or
yeah it is thicker.
Speaker 4 (20:22):
Yeah, pretty much.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Well, so he says his identity is not known yet,
no doubt due to the show airing, and it's still
being an unsolved case. On the Zodiac, we know that
Jack requested John Walsh's book. It lists crimes which are
really kind of consistent with the Zodiac saying I'll commit
my murders. They shall look like routine robbery's killings of
(20:45):
anger and a few fake accidents, et cetera, which is
kind of really linguistically close to this line of you
know what he says here in the Scorpion letters and
now I've lost it, oh arson, burglary, sabotage, homicide, and
occasionally everything in between, very similar statements there. The threat
(21:10):
that there will be more is the only threat that
I can actually detect in these communications. And the more
factor is something that the Zodiac has been saying since
way back in the Lipstick killings in nineteen forty five.
Now accepting responsibility for crimes in New Jersey, Zodiac sent
a Christmas card we already talked about that Zodiac was
known to predict his crimes in the future. This may
(21:32):
have been employed to say where he was going next
if he actually if this was actually received in nineteen
ninety one, or if it was received in two thousand
and one and it was just discussing what he had done,
we won't know the actual truth of this matter because
it was withheld and it again doesn't say anything about
John Walsh's son. So I'm assuming that this author is
(21:55):
not contacting John Walsh over his son with these letters.
He's trying to get story told.
Speaker 4 (22:01):
Oh yeah, good.
Speaker 2 (22:02):
One went to John Walsh though, right this.
Speaker 4 (22:07):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6 (22:08):
I believe that he wanted to give him a heads
up and let him know, you know, what was going on.
So when he covered these cases, he knew exactly which
way to go and which way to which way to
portray the story?
Speaker 3 (22:21):
Right, Well, it says I put in here the superiority
complex over the FBI and cias, and to far stretch
from the superiority complex the Zodiac had on any of
the other law enforcement during his his crimes. There's a
typical proof statement, as Jack is so desperate to do
the splitting of the words in useful and the hyper
(22:42):
fussy use of rather that we see with Jack and
the Zodiac. So a lot of the linguistics that oh,
I got goosebumps just saying that, you guys, Yeah, a
lot of this stuff is very very reminiscent of Jack
and Zodiac.
Speaker 4 (22:54):
And we've got the keys.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
So the key has been a huge theme throughout this
entire psion, leading back to po boxes, which we're going
to hear more about that in these letters as well.
So some of the things that I noted in regards
and this is the cipher that came with that that said, Hi,
remember me.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Now.
Speaker 3 (23:11):
If that isn't a solid follow up statement to the
guess who card for Christmas, I don't know what is.
Speaker 4 (23:17):
He keeps being the same type of taunt.
Speaker 3 (23:22):
So we also have that being said in the Tim
Miller Hello remember me? In the Atlanta, Georgia Murders, like
it just continues to occur. These are the same taunting
writings as the Zodiac.
Speaker 4 (23:33):
And Black Dahlia.
Speaker 3 (23:34):
Jack's Tho Boo page one claims twenty three victims shipfalled
is an unusual phrasing noted in The Zodiac and Jack,
whereby he puts two to three words together as a
single word. The word rather as a phrase that was
very common in Zodiac writings, hyphenation usage, which is something
that we've shown over and over again. We have the
oversized K in comparison to the rest of the Middle
(23:56):
Zone letters, and that is definitely a defiant letter where
you know, so psychologically speaking, the person is defined against authority,
has you know, outbursts and can become probably hostile at
any minute. We have the unusual spacing in words, that's
just like Zodiac and Jack he says your worst nightmare,
(24:16):
referencing to he is going to be killing his true
identity is not known. That's the Zodiac ploy. Your show
is more exciting, interesting and factual reference to the show
of Zodiac. And I think we see that that was
also typed up in the Patricia House letter that was
in regards to Sherry Joe Bates way back in the sixties.
(24:36):
We have crimes ranging from arson to burglary to sabotage.
Is listing the styles of killings, just like the Zodiac did.
And he says, start a file you'll be hearing from me,
And that's something that the Black Doll you said and
the Zodiac difficulty difficultly encoded message. Zodiac moved into New
Jersey and began a new crime spree. Reference to wherever
(24:57):
he goes, it is attributed to a separ a crime.
So he literally, i think psychologically separates himself from each
of these crime screes into that particular killer. Yet it
is still all one person or as we've been starting
to see the belief that there is a group that's
involved and that possibly the author is just reporting whatever
(25:18):
it is that the group is done through their communication.
Speaker 6 (25:22):
Yeah, and this may have suspects.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
This cipher here was it did it accompany the letter?
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Yes to my knowledge, and it's completely different sets of
of symbols.
Speaker 4 (25:40):
But one of the things.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
That I would that I was told in regards to
this is this has a lot of Navy flag symbols
in it. This being true, Jack was also in the Navy,
so he would know these flags in these symbols and
these signs.
Speaker 6 (25:53):
And if I'm not mistaken, John Walsh's father was in
the Navy. I have to go back in my book
at home and check.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
But yeah, I think he might be right.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
I feel like that was a well, yeah, we'll let
you follow up on that one.
Speaker 4 (26:10):
Let's see, this may.
Speaker 3 (26:11):
Be where Jack got the post office box keys that
were sent to law enforcement. This may be the direct
link to Anthrax through Zodiac nineteen ninety Christmas card, New
Jersey has several links of interest for Jack, including Albert
Einstein reference to getting over on the FBI and CIA.
That is just like Lipstick Killer in the Zodiac, you
(26:32):
can contact me through your show desire to be made public,
which I found in Zodiac Plucked Allia Lipstick the finale
letter to Tim Miller and Anthrax. So we start to
see this press here as Jack is getting older, starting
to phase out of killing, and there's this push to
get the story told by the communicator of all.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
Of these messages sober.
Speaker 2 (26:57):
It has a lot of like Egyptians symbolism in it.
Speaker 5 (27:02):
You know, the people at NASA were fascinated by the
Egyptian Old Religion and.
Speaker 2 (27:11):
Like the names of their missions are all Egyptian ship.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
I don't well, I did not know that well. In
these code psychological hold on, you guys are talking about.
Speaker 6 (27:26):
Physchological, psychological information and uh deciphers and things. It goes
all the way back to that time. That's where they
got it from. That's where they get this from.
Speaker 3 (27:37):
Yeah, I was studying symbols there for a while to
see if I could locate a particular set of symbols
that were being used. I did the script across the
Egyptian symbols. I didn't actually find anything that contained all
the symbols that are in here. But again, that's what
makes the code so unique and unsolvable unless you have
the key.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
So I believe that the FBI either had the key.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Or John wall himself was also handed the key. And
of course we're being presented this cipher because they know
that without the key, there's no way for us to
solve it. All right, So let's see, this is the
second communicator. Well, I don't know if it's the second.
I believe there's approximately five to six. It says a series.
(28:20):
It talks about five different ciphers, so I'm going to
assume that there's at least five different communications. To John Walsh,
this happens to be another one, and this one says it,
and to me it looks like it's page two of
a communication.
Speaker 4 (28:35):
But I don't know that.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
Let's see, Okay, so there's the third page, so it
looks like it's page two of three, and we're missing
the first page, And why not show us the first page,
what's in it?
Speaker 4 (28:45):
FBI and John Walsh?
Speaker 3 (28:46):
That you don't want us to make a connection of
this letter starts out, and I hope you guys will
agree with me as I begin to read this that
this is not a complete sentence, which means that there
was another page that began.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
And had more information on it. It says intricate in
the first page.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
That yeah, yeah, it says intricate and difficult to recopy
onto these cards.
Speaker 4 (29:13):
What is we only got a half a sentence.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
My style of handwriting on these cards is very much
altered and controlled in order to throw off graphologists. He
knows about graphology, which is exactly you know the zodiac,
making the claim that he knew about fingerprints, and covering
his fingerprints and covering his handwriting and using a different hand.
Speaker 4 (29:39):
In the Atlanta Georgia writings.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Like the over and over again, we're being told how
he can con people with his communications. He says, I
would much rather communicate with you with letters sent between us,
but you and your over anxious associates would try to
nail me even if I used a po box. There's
our po box reference. And we've seen this over and
over again for a return address. This would create a
(30:05):
rather messy situation since I do not plan to be
taken alive, if at all, and I truly believe in
the use of superior firepower. This creates a problem for
our communication since the only way I can communicate with
you is by letter and possibly phone, and your only
safe medium in both of our best interests is your
informative and helpful show. Consider this your second and definitely
(30:29):
last chance, since I will be I will soon start
collecting bodies, collecting bodies, collecting slaves.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
I think that it runs pretty tandem.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Yeah, and he says, start collecting bodies for you, he says,
So he's telling John Walsh, I'm gonna start collecting bodies
for you to prove that this is not a prank.
Hopefully for you, no one will expose themselves to me
as an easy target. Zodiac one oh one thing ding
(31:00):
for my ever growing anger before I get a chance
to hear from you. I now realize, with many hundreds
of hours, we're gonna stop that there, and I'm gonna
tell you some of the things that I find interesting
in here, so we have helpful and informative show. And
this is a Zodiac's general statements in the Patricia Houts
letter and to Tom Voight, always referencing something in the media,
(31:23):
and the confession that these letters are painstakingly done in
order to disguise from graphology, which explains why we why
we see missing attributes and added attributes. The finale letter
the Zodiac Jack Terrence's multiple styles of writing, says he
would communicate by letters, but they would track it back
to him through the po box, which is a reference
(31:43):
connecting the Christmas card through the post office box keys.
Also a statement is similar to those made by many
of the communications in these different crimes Frees. He says
it's messy, and he uses rather again he's incorrectly spells
very with two rs, which is that double level spelling
error that we've seen so often and it's now.
Speaker 4 (32:03):
Attributed to disguise.
Speaker 3 (32:05):
So he says, start with the collecting of bodies, and
the statement that hopefully no one makes themselves an easy target.
Uh and an ever growing anger, which is definitely a
statement from the Zodiac who's anger.
Speaker 6 (32:17):
And I want to stop you there too on that
last statement that you just said. That is his way.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
Of controlling John Walsh and letting him.
Speaker 6 (32:26):
Know, like, if anyone gets information that they're not supposed
to get or they are on a trail that they're
not supposed to go on, then it's gonna be somebody
in your circle that's gonna be taken out. And I
can show you, and I will show you and that
you know, this is how I'm gonna control you. And
this is what you're gonna do. You're gonna only you know,
(32:49):
oh sorry, this is a weird noise You're only gonna
talk about in your show such and such.
Speaker 4 (32:56):
You know, if you go towards this way, then it's
going to be.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
Well.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
I do understand the threat that if he.
Speaker 5 (33:07):
Basically he's trying to influence the content of Walsh's show.
Speaker 2 (33:14):
And what Walsh's actions good.
Speaker 3 (33:16):
Well, but I don't think that he actively did because
I don't recall shows and not that I've watched every
single America's Most Wanted there is, but I don't recall
shows where John Walsh was addressing any of this man's
intentions on his show, because otherwise he would have had
to have told us about these letters when they occurred.
Speaker 4 (33:32):
I mean, I know it was all secret, I believe.
Speaker 3 (33:36):
Yeah, so it is if he isn't playing into the
hand of this individual, then where is these twenty three bodies?
I could not find twenty three murders unsolved murders in
New Jersey during the nineteen nineties. The only thing I
really saw that was substantial in the New Jersey area
was the anthrax mailings, which encompassed something like seventeen people
(34:00):
or twenty some people.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
Which was consistent.
Speaker 3 (34:02):
So who and where are these twenty and he's saying,
I'm giving this to you as proof? So they must
have been able to track down either the work that
he had done or he did commit some type of
crime to prove up that these letters were truly from
this individual. I just don't know where to go with
you know them withholding information from us and not making.
Speaker 4 (34:22):
It clear what was involved with all of these letters.
Speaker 6 (34:26):
Well, and another another example would be not necessarily covering
up for the Zodiac, but for his associates as well,
which we do know. John Walsh was very well known
to cover a lot of a lot of the cartel,
a lot of the Iran contrast, people that went on
(34:47):
the run, many people and that were on the run
in New York and of that way. As far as
like you know, there's big names that he covered that
I'm pretty sure the Zodiac knew and uh you know
they communicated with because I think that he was a
part of all this, all these crazy murder sprees, you know,
(35:11):
in the nineteen nineties, in the eighties and early two thousands.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
Well, it's interesting that you met mentioned the Iron.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Affair, Yehaus Bush was. Bush was implicated in that and
parted the last person who was on trial for it
so that his name didn't get brought up because he
likely could have been indicted for it. So we have
John Walsh covering the information of people involved in it,
but I don't know that he ever covered the bushes.
Speaker 6 (35:39):
Well, how about this, He also pardoned Bush also pardoned
autist Tool of the Dead h.
Speaker 4 (35:47):
Yes he did.
Speaker 3 (35:48):
And Otis O'Toole was supposably the number one suspect on John.
Speaker 4 (35:52):
Walsh's h Adam mart yep. But O'Toole is.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
Taking him and Henry Lee lucas we now know, is
one of those gigantic jokes just taking I think that
law enforcement or the rangers, the Texas Rangers, really thought
that they could close two hundred and some murders across
the United states that I believe are associated to this
group by just simply having O'Toole and Lucas admit to
(36:18):
these murders and then providing them the information that they
needed to be able to look like they knew what
they were talking about and had inside information that nobody
else would have.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
But it was really just being fed to them.
Speaker 7 (36:30):
So how Tool, oh yeah, and then Tool, even in
the courtroom, Tool literally sat on camera like, this is
a joke.
Speaker 6 (36:41):
They gave me the information, you know. I was told
to read the pages that they gave me, like, this
is not me. I'm trying to tell y'all. And he
would just like laugh and giggle about it. So it
kind of was like a joke and people really didn't
believe him, but he really was telling the truth.
Speaker 4 (36:58):
Well that's his low level mentality he would have.
Speaker 3 (37:00):
You know, I would think that the anxiety of the
whole entire mess because his maturity level was so low. Yeah,
if he did, his last name was properly fitting for him.
Speaker 2 (37:12):
Tool.
Speaker 4 (37:14):
He was a Tool, I know.
Speaker 6 (37:15):
And that's even that's another irony of it.
Speaker 4 (37:18):
It's just crazy.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
Here's here's the third page to this communication. It says,
and of course we finished off. I now realized, with
many hundreds of hours of mind racking experimentation with my
complex ciphers, that my first one that I sent you
was comparatively simple to my second, third, fourth, and now
temporarily final cryptograph system. So that would inticate to me
(37:43):
at least five communications. And that's if every single communication
came with the cipher. If he sent communications that didn't
include ciphers, there could be possibly more communications. To John Walsh,
he says, I have been encoding useful information for your
use and have done it fairly since all my ciphers
can be decoded simply once the limited patterns and systems
(38:06):
are discovered, I haven't closed another cipher for you to
deal with.
Speaker 4 (38:10):
See you in El Amigo scorpion.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
See where to go?
Speaker 6 (38:19):
Wow, Well that's that's uh, you know, kind of Hispanic lingo,
you know, and John Wish was very familiar with that
Hispanic lingo because of how Florida was had a lot
of Cubans and a lot of Venezuelans and a lot
(38:39):
of uh Mexican Mexicans like uh. And that's literally the
main the main portal that went all the way up
to the United States with the iron contra contra affair.
Speaker 5 (38:54):
So quick question the scorpion, who is like a little
ink blotch below it?
Speaker 2 (39:02):
Do you attribute any significance to that?
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Well, we've seen a lot of that doodling and blood
dropping imitation in the Zodiac letters.
Speaker 2 (39:11):
They like a drop of blood or something.
Speaker 4 (39:14):
Yeah, we had the dripping pen with blood.
Speaker 3 (39:17):
We had the doodles that that gray Smith actually had
removed from a letter that he had published in his
first book. In a second book, he had those little
doodles removed. But we saw that also on the Tit
Willow communication from the Zodiac, where he drew these little
circle they almost looked like a little sperm, the little
(39:39):
circles with little tails on them that he was, you know,
inco or basically like he was just maybe even having
a thought process where he was doodling while he was
doing it.
Speaker 4 (39:49):
But it almost looks like a stinger.
Speaker 3 (39:52):
It almost looks like the tip of the scorpion's tail
of that eye. Right, So I really I don't know
what to make of it other than yeah, we've seen
the doodling, We've seen the heavy.
Speaker 5 (40:06):
Yeah, it's hard to decipher it, but it has to
have some sort of significance.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
He does everything for a.
Speaker 3 (40:13):
Reason, right, yeah, right, Well, so the page this is
the page two or three of three is a complex
cipher reference to five ciphers and cryptograph systems, each one
becoming even harder. Zodiac accounts for three in the final
two are sent as scorpion. So I had wondered at
this point in time if that wasn't the entire five,
(40:35):
and that when he stated that he had sent five,
that they were ciphers he had sent in other areas.
But I want to say that we also had four
ciphers from the zodiac, and now we've got two here,
So that wouldn't make sense. So he must have sent
five individual ciphers to John Walsh.
Speaker 4 (40:51):
He does put the word useful go ahead.
Speaker 5 (40:55):
Is there any way to put pressure on whoever to
get that first bay or to find out if it exists?
Speaker 2 (41:02):
It has to exist, because the second page is a
broken and.
Speaker 6 (41:05):
Then yeah, and then again the in the Adam Boss
case bout that was the first page uh in there.
It was like it was like that that they just
put those pieces in there.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Yeah yeah, well and it's like that it's like that
person who gave the review on Jack as the zodiac
indicating that we should put pressure on the FBI and
law enforcement to do the DNA testing on Jack. We
know that the FBI is in position of a second
envelope and they they, I would hope not make the.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
Same mistake that they did with the first.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
One, where a s FPD combined the DNA samples from
under the lip of the envelope and the stamp. But
with them, with the FBI still in a possession of
one of Jack's envelopes, there should be testing on this
and why didn't the FBI do this? They I know
that the the agents that were working with Dennis spent
lots of hours with Dennis tracking down lots of leads,
(41:58):
following up on lots of evidence that Jack Gay or
Dennis gave him. Why in the world did they not
do the DNA testing. They traveled all the way down
to Doris Rental Reynolds after I found out that she
was willing to speak, and I wanted to get hers
and Danny Reynolds DNA because Dennis thought that there was
a possibility that Danny Reynolds DNA would have been found
(42:18):
on these envelopes. The FBI claims that they went down
there and found her, you know, basically incoherent in some
type of arrest home, and that she was unable to speak,
and they couldn't simply just get Danny Reynolds DNA to
make a comparison, which I think is bs because he's
been in and out of jail all of his life
and he was likely in her in jail at that moment.
(42:39):
Either way, if you're going to go all the way
down there to meet up with Doris Reynolds.
Speaker 6 (42:44):
And they're still a sigarette but or something like or
you know, whether they smoked or not, or a bottle
of water.
Speaker 3 (42:52):
It's more It's more my point that if you're going
to make that trip and use those resources to go down.
Speaker 4 (42:58):
There and do that, why not test that last st envelope?
Speaker 3 (43:01):
Why not get the palm print from Sonoma County PD
or Sheriff's Department that was given by Dennis to Officer
Brown out there. Why not get that poem print and
do those comparisons. That officer, to my knowledge, was never
capable of doing a comparison of the fingerprints and palm
print of Jack, which we have to the palm print
(43:21):
at SFPD because they just weren't playing the game with anybody,
So yeah, putting the pressure on them is something Dennis
evidently attempted to do and it was a huge failure,
epic failure. And why and why would Harry Phillips say,
we knew that the other eight people were not the Zodiac,
So what are you saying you know that Jack is
or you're afraid that investigating him may prove that he was.
(43:43):
And this is going to lead back to people who
are very much still alive that could be harm in
regards to it.
Speaker 6 (43:49):
Well, it's the same concept with Epstein and them not
releasing things because there's certain things in there that they
don't that will implicate a lot of people and they
don't want it to you know, people to know. It's sad,
feel like it's the same thing with the Zodiac. There
were so many, you know, people involved in this group
and who knew about it. Whether they participate or not,
they still knew about it and with held withheld information,
(44:11):
it would implicate a lot of people. And so they
just want to keep playing games and you know, act
like they're doing something about it and they're not.
Speaker 4 (44:20):
And when they're not, because they already know.
Speaker 5 (44:22):
Who he is there were contacts in hide places then
knew about it.
Speaker 4 (44:28):
And he knew a lot of different people.
Speaker 3 (44:30):
Yeah, so here we have this next cipher that also
came along with this three page letter and oh well
I needed to finish up obviously. Line eight was the
word useful. Spacing is consistent with Zodiac and Jack Terrence
and the ceeu in how amigo reference is Again, I
(44:52):
don't know if he's saying amigo to make it look
like this.
Speaker 4 (44:55):
He might be.
Speaker 3 (44:56):
Hispanic, but we know that there were at least a
couple of times he pretended to be a faction or
a different culture than American. But we can see by
the use of the language here that English is this
person's first language. So definitely probably or probably not Hispanic
would be my guest.
Speaker 4 (45:14):
Yeah, well ago too.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
It's the term.
Speaker 5 (45:17):
It's it's Spanish, but you know, but it's also a
textan terms Texas part of Mexico. That's what I was
just gonna say a little bit to uh, your asses
of bragg. Yeah, they're like cowboys, you know, but they're
writing ones writing a donkey.
Speaker 4 (45:38):
Yes, that's the meo.
Speaker 5 (45:40):
It's kind of like a clue back to that. That's
the method. They liked Jack or whoever the group is.
They like to give clues to past events and passed
cards and past communications.
Speaker 3 (45:57):
That's how I put it all together, going through these
these communications with people popping up out of the woodworks,
being anonymous, sending me new communications and different crime sprees,
and then falling off the face of the earth. I
always had to wonder, why why did you come in
just to disappear? I mean, did you really want me
to solve this or you leaving it up to me
to figure everything out? And really it was just about
putting the communications together and determining if the handwriting was
(46:20):
the same, which we have included the Scorpion letters in
that handwriting examination that was done way back, and I
want to say we were in like the nine hundreds.
We are now in twenty five hundred and fifty three
slides of this presentation, so more than halfway back. We
did the handwriting comparison of all of the letters so
that I could get that done and out of the
way for people. Well, that brings us to a letter
(46:43):
that Lindsay has sent to me, and this comes out
of the John Walsh files.
Speaker 4 (46:48):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Yeah, so this was an interesting letter. It says congratulation
on your Oh goodness, I guess I should have your
poor police diplomacy. So congratulations on your police diplomacy. Adam
(47:09):
Walsh suffered, not you. Adam was dead only two to
three days. Forensics know a a dead Oh gosh, I
probably should have typed this up ahead of time, because
it's going to take some time to cipher a dead
decomposed in water, especially when it's a bloody mess being
(47:37):
fed on by water creatures. So this individual is probably
just trying to comment. Have you read this letter, Lindsay,
for what it's worth and what did you find that
you thought was.
Speaker 4 (47:50):
Interesting about it?
Speaker 6 (47:54):
Just how much information they knew and how it was
talking about the police, you know, in their dirty work
and sin I believe it also talks about uh investigating
certain people and the distrib distribution of of certain things.
Speaker 4 (48:20):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (48:25):
Who's the letter to, Well, it looks like it went
to the police department because it says congratulations on your
poor police diplomacy. So I think what I'll do is
we're at it. We're at the end of our segment
right now, We've got about a minute left. So I
think what I'll do is I'll go ahead and type
this up so that I can easily read it for
the viewers. Uh, and then we can revisit this particular
(48:46):
letter and the other one that you sent me next week.
How about that, lindsay, Yeah, okay, well yeah, that literally,
unless you guys have anything to add puts us pretty much.
Speaker 4 (48:57):
I want to tell you a little, a little.
Speaker 6 (49:00):
Uh information I learned of when I was researching just
Lame's Maxwell's father and his suspicious death and all that.
So apparently he was I don't know.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
If we have time for that, because we're literally counting down.
We have less than thirty seconds if you can get
it out in less.
Speaker 6 (49:20):
Than okay, yeah, yeah, So he was funded by Ears Israel,
and Israel pretty much had a hand in all of
his media stuff like that. So, in other words, so
when he died, it was passed down to Epstein.
Speaker 4 (49:34):
Oh ay, creaked all.
Speaker 3 (49:36):
Right, So I want to pick that up next week.
Then everybody have a wonderful weekend. Thank you both for
being here. We will see you guys next Friday.
Speaker 8 (49:44):
See yah, good weeks you too
Speaker 2 (50:03):
And family.
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