October 17, 2025 • 49 mins
As with many communications I received during my examination of the Zodiac Killer writings, an anonymous stranger dropped the Ramsey Ransom note off to me via email, and disappeared. The murder of Jon Benet Ramsey was worldwide news that many media outlets profited from. The media was weaponized against the Ramsey family. Boulder police are mostly to blame for false news leaks and the perpetuation of destroying this family. Why? This is the question of the century...
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Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/hit-the-road-jack-finding-the-zodiac--5297837/support.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,
professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services
(00:23):
of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Good Morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
I'd like to start by welcoming to the show. Nolan
del Campo, Good morning everybody. Good morning, fabulous week out there,
lots of rain, little sunshine. We're ready for fall and winter.
(01:12):
It looks like, yes, we are. I know that we
were going to get started here on some research that
was continued and followed up from the phone numbers that
were dialed out to Colorado from Jack's phone bill, and
of course Lindsay had done some stellar research on that
(01:33):
she was able to actually locate what these numbers went to,
which I was kind of shocked over. And of course
we're waiting for her to get on because I did
not want to start without her.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
There's a box says present, is that her?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Hey, hey, good day, perfect timing, all right, okay, So
Lindsey took it upon herself to throw these phone numbers
into a search system.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Now, what is this search system that you use?
Speaker 5 (02:09):
Is cyber background checks dot com?
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Cyber background checks dot com? Does that cost money?
Speaker 6 (02:17):
If you want a thorough search, then yeah, but you
can do a basic search on there for free. But
I'd pay the monthly whatever fee it is. I think
it's only like sixty nine or something like that.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Really, I could probably use something like that, especially with
the numerous amount of phone numbers that I've gotten here.
So cyber background checks dot com.
Speaker 7 (02:38):
Huh, I think I could write that off minute?
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Oh I can, Yes, we can. Ha. We do hear
what she found? I mean, like.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Literally, I was pretty stoked. I'm very impressed with what
she got here, all right. So she ran the numbers
the three oh three four nine four four seven seven four.
I think that ultimately you determined that what I found
that was calling in for the accuracy on.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Time, correct, yep? Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
And then the second number was the three zero three
six three seven six nine two, And of course I
did go back and look at Jack's records to notice
that he also dialed a six one nine one, which
came up in your search. During the search for this,
you show that this area code covers Denver, Aurora, Arvada, Westminster,
(03:28):
and Boulder. And at first I thought to myself, like, wow,
like Boulder, Colorado, you mean we're we're about ready to
step into this whole John Bane Ramsey thing, like this
is a little crazy, but it looks to me like
it might be wrapping out to something completely different. So
we're going to cover what it was that she found. So, hello,
(03:49):
I guess I need to get to my presentation.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
There we go. Now it works all right.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
So you found that these phone numbers led back to
actual articles and newspapers. Correct, yep, the first one you
found was bring Big Spring, Harold, and that is an
article date of May thirty first, nineteen ninety six. While
some of this writing is just so small, I laughed
(04:15):
because one of the first things I saw on there
was actually a cartoon.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Of I'm not Bob, I'm not Bill campaign ninety six.
So far it says clearly one is Bill Clinton. Who's
the other guy? Goal?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Goal goal?
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Now what were they running for? What was the King
in ninety Oh okay, yeah, tells you how much I
like you Clinton, Sam Yah.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, And I certainly didn't vote for him, so I
don't even recall. But yeah, So that was a very
interesting little article there, and some of the other articles
that I found, and I'm just going to breathe through them.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
I'm not going to read them.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
A fellow's conviction overturned because he understood his sentence.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
This was a child molester.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Basically, he had committed some child crimes and he had
pled guilty, and in his actual sentencing, his attorney read
to him the sentences that he could possibly receive by
admitting to this plea of guilty. And then it was
ultimately overturned and he was released because they said the
(05:28):
judge didn't read those sentences to him, that his attorney dead,
and that somehow that was piled play by the court.
The court should have read it. But either way, he
got off and he was released, set free.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Do they try him though they read charge and retri.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I couldn't, but he was pleading guilty, so there was
no trial, right.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
But that's the technicality. The judges are supposed to read the.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Advisor, Okay, but it wasn't for lack of him knowing
what his potential sentence.
Speaker 7 (06:01):
Obviously, Also, if the DA did not object, the d should.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
Have objected, the judge should have. If it was the judges.
Speaker 7 (06:09):
Judge, Yeah, that was just it was bad lawyering and judging.
But at the same time, that's harmless error if he understood.
But as long as you review the word for word
advisors and they're the same thing, the judge would have read.
But that's that's what they call it technicality.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
That's a stupid technicality.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
So from what I can tell, and to me, I
thought to myself, like, honestly, was that something pre planned?
Speaker 5 (06:36):
You know me?
Speaker 7 (06:38):
Yeah, I would think in most jurisdictions, well in California anyway,
that they would be recharged or retried.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I just know that so many times in the courtroom
when an attorney tries to tell the judge what his
job is or tries to object to something that is
obviously the judge's job to make make a decision on that,
judge loves to slam these attorneys and say, hey, that's
my job. That's why I sit here, that's why I
get the big money, right right, I'm the gatekeeper. I
(07:12):
get to make those decisions. Blah blah blah. Either way,
it was just an interesting article. And then we of
course had this gentleman border he was actually a colonel
in the military. He supposedly committed suicide over some stupid
questions in regards to two little bows that he was
wearing for some service that he had done, and they
(07:35):
claimed that he wasn't in active battle when he was
in fact on a ship, because I believe he was Navy.
Either way, it's a very suspicious death surrounding this guy
supposedly committing suicide as a colonel in the military because
somebody questioned whether or not he should be wearing ribbons
that attributed to him being.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
In active combat.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I thought that is the most ridiculous reason for suicide
I've ever heard in my life. Anyways, had to share that, especially.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
If he was deemed to be in combat.
Speaker 7 (08:03):
If he was on ship during the combat, then technically
he is involved in combat. He may not be like
pulling a trigger or being exposed to gunfire or weaponry,
but he's at war at that point.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Basically, why couldn't those ships be blown up just like
any other ship? I mean, technically speaking, if you're where
the freaking war is. You have a potential for being
blown up, whether you're on land or at sea.
Speaker 7 (08:30):
Yeah, but again back to your point, it seems like
it's unless it was true. The allegations were true, and
he got to embarrass so badly that he was trying
to say something that wasn't true. But from what I'm hearing,
it was true. So why did you clear yourself over that?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
And what I really picked up from the article, which
really kind of it just fits in with what I've
been saying about media weaponizing themselves against people, is that
it appears as though this was whole this was a
I gotcha type media project of we're going to defame
(09:12):
and you know, denounce you and make you look bad.
But even then, nothing was so bad that somebody would
want to commit suicide over it. However, we're seeing the
media actively use weaponizing themselves against individuals, obviously to either
tarnish their record or to bring them down or to
do something. And ultimately they claim this guy committed suicide,
(09:34):
but it possibly could have been suicided, and this is
just the story or the background that they've put together
in order to facilitate their narrative. Another article that was
extremely interesting to me was a murder attempting cartel hierarchy
shows rules changing around Cali and the bottom line is
(09:54):
still showing Columbia is the head of cocaine and and cartels,
and we have people, you know, killing people and taking
people out and again killing family members, which is going
to bring us to something else that you've researched, Lindsay
on the Routier case we're going to be talking about
(10:15):
here in a few minutes. But aside from that, I
did find that you your research showed that the ad
that we're about to talk about that shows that phone
number that Jack called came out in four different newspapers,
one in Indiana, one in Kentucky. I know that this
only includes Port Arthur, Texas, but we clearly see that
(10:36):
it did run in a newspaper for Big Springs, Texas
as well, and then Laurel, Mississippi, on the Laurel Leader newspaper.
None of these did I find consistent with any of
the other newspapers. Did a little research on the Big Springs.
It didn't look like it was anything ever owned by Hurst,
so I was trying to see if there was any
tie in there as to why or May and we
(10:59):
see this one on March thirty or yeah, March May
thirty first, and Jack makes the phone calls on June tenth,
which is obviously four days after the Rootier escapade and
at least after the point I can I can think of.
So what I'm trying to read here is that in
Indiana it ran the eighth through the fourteenth. That's what
(11:21):
that's indicating, right, Yeah, no, quick on the.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Out side, the author of the columnst was Mike Roykok
and he used to run in the bad Now.
Speaker 7 (11:31):
I don't know if he wrote to the b and
now syndicated or the beat cart is syndicated column, but
his column used to run.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Into be Sacramento Bee Yeah huh, which is also where okay,
all right, it was just a little yeah, a little
side note Corbin, Kentucky. It ran May twenty fifth, nineteen
ninety six through June fifteenth, but it didn't run on
May twenty ninth and on June second, So it sounds
to me like they paid for that ad run through
(12:00):
that entire time. Port Arthur, Texas ran only May thirtieth,
nineteen ninety six. June sixth and June thirteenth, so only
three actual runs in Port Arthur, Texas and Laurel, Mississippi,
ran from June first through June twenty first, but not
on the second or eighth of June. So we now
have a place where this phone number appears the Big Herald.
(12:24):
I kind of did a breakdown just to see where
it's at. It indicated that it was only circulated within
the let's see Howard County area of West Texas, which
is approximately nine hundred square miles. We can see that
that is literally up over in this direction. Jack is
down here in the Sageen, Texas area based on the
(12:46):
mail that we're looking at, which is approximately four hours
and fifty two minutes away from it, with the closest
drive to Big Springs, where this actual newspaper could have
been picked up. So it kind of boggles me how
Jack came across this newspaper article to begin with, since
it was so far away.
Speaker 7 (13:08):
Where did the officer Legensy commit suicide in Texas?
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
It would have been Big Springs, so it will at least, yeah,
at least, let's see, Jeremy Borda killed himself with a
bullet to the chest.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Now, not many people kill themselves with a bullet to
the chest.
Speaker 7 (13:27):
I mean.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Yeah. And there's little mystery as to why he did it.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
The Navy's tap man knew it was likely he would
soon end his remarkable, remarkable career in embarrassment, shame, or
even disgrace. How it doesn't even make any sense if
he was given these ribbons. He was given these ribbons,
and you have to get given them, right. You don't
just give them to yourself, right, I hope so. But
I'm any ribbons that you bear on your chest has
(13:56):
been given to you by a superior officer somewhere.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
I thought it worked.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Let's see the reason. Until a year ago, he had
worn two tiny ribbons on his chest that indicated he
had been in combat in Vietnam. Military experts now differ
as to whether he was entitled to wear these ribbons.
Some say no because he had not been indirectly involved
in combat, Others say yes because he served on ships
that were in the combat zone, and others say maybe
(14:22):
so it's it's the stupidest thing ever for anybody to
have willingly committed suicide over I can't make out it is.
It is coming up in the big Springs, Texas. So
I'm thinking bored if fifty six was almost certain to
be it on the media hot seat and wanted to
stick it to Admiral Borda, maybe those who had an
(14:44):
axe to grind, jealous colleagues or someone with a grudge.
So they're looking at it, you know, from very different
ways as to why this even became a news But
we know that the newspapers and the media love that
whole we gotcha moment, whether it's true or not. Newsweek
climbed on board. I see like all kinds of it
(15:04):
says it was too juicy of a story for today's
gotcha journalists to resist a man of prominence and achievement. Ah,
but with a hidden and embarrassing secret and flaw makes
no sense to me.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Anyways.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
They trying to make it exciting, right, so they could
be talking about somebody from a different area.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
But it ran in the Big Springs.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Issue, needless to say, like we were saying, this article,
or at least this particular newspaper was approximately three hundred
and thirty one miles away from Jack And in the
classified section, lindsay you found.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Tell us about this one. Ah.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
So so when I searched.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
When I first searched it up, I was like, I
found like the several newspapers, but only certain ones as
you stated. And then whenever, the first thing that caught
my eye was the word secret, and I was like, wait,
is this the number?
Speaker 5 (16:00):
Is this number under this?
Speaker 6 (16:01):
Because it had, you know, it pulls the number that
I searched, and it highlights it, so like my eye
immediately went there to secret, and I was like secret,
secret banking, secret banking systems, Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
And then I just was like stuck in that little.
Speaker 6 (16:17):
Rabbit hole for like a couple of hours or so,
and I just started jotting every single thing down, like
the dates that.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
That this particular AD ran.
Speaker 6 (16:28):
And then, as you can see, with something odd about it,
I thought was like, it's a twenty four hour recorded
line with a pre recorded message reveals whatever you need
to get this four thousand dollars to open this new
bank account, to.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
Make this four thousand dollars.
Speaker 6 (16:49):
I guess, uh, they're trying to get you to open
a bank account.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
It makes it sound to me it's okay. So the
ad read secret banking systems, open bank accounts, make four
thousand a day amazing twenty four hour free recorded message
reveals details and it has two numbers, and both of
these numbers can be found on Jack's bill. I took
that to mean that they're asking people to assist in
(17:15):
opening bank accounts for others. I mean, how many bank
accounts does somebody need?
Speaker 7 (17:21):
I think this is nobody's going to reply to that.
I think it was a contact number for Jack.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
Yeah, I definitely thought it was a code.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
We were definitely definitely thinking in that direction because it's
like I used to tell my dad, My dad was
a huge get me on for all of these oh
make thirty two thousand dollars a month doing blah blah blah.
I'm like, Dad, if that were possible, wouldn't everybody do it?
Nobody be working anymore, We'd all just hop into that bandwagon.
We'd all make it happen. So, either this makes Jack
(17:51):
look like less than the intelligent individual for reaching out
to these individuals to make four thousand dollars a day.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Oh, there's more.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
To this particular and it is listed in the classified
its unless I remind you, we just got done talking
about the fact that the cartel and the mafia and
all of these people in the syndicate still exist in
nineteen ninety six, and that the CIA and all of
these other individuals actually used the classified newspapers to give
messages back and forth. And we've actually seen that occur
(18:22):
in the Zodiac case right where they're talking from the
Oh gosh, I forgot the zodiac sign that was on it,
but they were talking to the Zodiac in regards to
other people, the masters and so forth in I believe
this group of individuals. But yes, this was a very
(18:43):
interesting fine, lindsay.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
So I went ahead and I mapped that out.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Port Arthur, Texas would have been another likely place because
it's in Texas that Jack could have received it. So
I ran those distances and literally from where Jack was
at this is Port Arthur is three hours and thirty
seven minutes away and two hundred and fifty miles if
you drove straight through Highway ten all the way to
(19:08):
Port Arthur, which really lines up against the border of Atlanta, Georgia, basically,
which I've discussed before, the path that Jack would take
was Highway ten in most cases. So I did one
more search and I looked at it in relation to
League City in Galveston, It's approximately an hour and twenty
eight minutes away from League City in Galveston, so much
(19:29):
closer obviously that the other location, but very far out
there for Jack to have driven to have received, picked
up or or you know, gotten this particular newspaper. And
of course Port Arthur was a completely different newspaper it was. Oh,
it didn't say which one. It just said Port Arthur, Texas.
So it didn't actually say what the newspaper was that
(19:51):
ran it, so I couldn't check on that one either way.
Very very interesting. Now this is the law of leader.
This one ran in miss Missippi, so it clearly has.
And so was this a reach out to four different
members of the group.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
Yeah, that's what I was thinking, to tell you.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
That we're let them know and they would be able
to decode. I mean, clearly Jack was a man of
decoding if that message was received on the other end.
So I went back and I looked to see how
long Jack had actually spent on these particular phone calls.
I want to say that on the let's see here.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
Come on, Okay, Nope, that's time.
Speaker 5 (20:36):
I think you passed it, you do, I saw it.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
I think it was back further because it was June.
Oh huh, you're right, yeah, yeah, see yeah, that's nineteen
ninety five, ninety six, February YouTube there, No, that's cable bills.
(21:01):
Nothing there, okay, right here. So on June tenth, there
was three phone calls placed, and that means that he
had to have gotten it from an at well, he
either picked that newspaper up from somebody else that had
sent it on to him after that date, because I
don't believe that the dates actually coincide with the Texas runs,
(21:22):
but we don't know when Big Springs actually ran it.
So he spent one minute on the phone message with
sixty one nine one, So why turn around and called
sixty one nine two. I would assume that they put
two phone numbers in there if it were to be
to compensate for several phone callers, right, if one was busy,
(21:43):
you could.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Call at that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah, So he did one minute at then sixty one
nine one number. Then he did the six one ninety
two and spent two minutes on it, and then he
turned around and he called back. And this all happened
between ten twenty six and eleven thirty pm on the tenth,
So we did two minutes, and then he called back
and spent another minute on the six one number. Why
(22:08):
so many times if you got the information that you needed.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Again, writ it down. It wasn't what it was supposed
to what it purported to be. That's my take.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Anyway, Yeah, say that again.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
It was what the ad wasn't what it was purported
to be.
Speaker 7 (22:27):
It was something else, and he was supposed to call
it and get certain information, and he did.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
He did. He certainly he had to call both numbers.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah, yeah, even though that says or that may be
an indication you need to call both to get exactly
what it is that you need to get from it.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
Who knows? Yeah, code too, well, you know what.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
And let's err on the side of you know, Devil's
advocate and say this was just a scam. Does that
mean that we've been being scammed by people for a very.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
Long time, ever forever?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
And I saw even more things that looked like scams
inside that newspaper as I was reading the classifieds.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
I did actually.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Download and print out the entire newspaper from Big Springs.
So well that brings us to Oh and by the way,
I did look up the dancing at relies. I do
not know why that girl even put out there that
I should even.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Look at that.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
That literally was some type of ridiculousness where five people
from out of the country had been temporarily held as
being suspicious but were then released because they had nothing
to do with the nine to eleven attacks. But then
this conspiracy theory or the story came about about how
they were dancing to the success of the nine to
eleven events, which turned out to be completely false and untrue.
(23:45):
But you know, it's got to run its realm with
everybody as far as conspiracies are concerned. So there was
really nothing to take off of that. And I don't
know why that person referred me to even look at that.
That was the stupidest thing I ever read.
Speaker 6 (23:58):
Ah Well, because Israel had they think that had a
partake into into the nine to eleven well.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
They want to try and say that that's where she
got it from. Well but even then, so these people
have been found to be innocent released. They were just tourists, right,
They probably went back home, no big deal. Whatever they
were doing probably had nothing to do with the nine
to eleven events at all, Otherwise they wouldn't have been
released and sent home. I mean I did watch that movie,
like I said, where they held that one guy they
(24:28):
that they thought had some information, not that he was
part of but he had some information, and he was
what held seven years in Guantanamo being tortured and beaten
and sleep deprived and music blurring at him and all
these things that we see on the Ozark Netflix series.
So if they would, they would have done that to
(24:48):
these five, if they thought literally there was anything that
they had to offer.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Brown.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Ah, that is crazy funny now what you led me to. However, Lindsay,
on the other hand, literally bought up my entire morning
this morning, because none of what we're about to share
right now was even in my presentation until this morning.
I thought I might as well take a look at
this Darly Routier stuff and see what's going on. And
I think that I vaguely remember back in whatever time frame,
(25:22):
it was the sprain of the Silly String and everybody
jumping on board against this woman who purportedly was appearing
to have too much fun after her children had died.
I don't know about you, but I've been to several
celebrations of life where we literally partied, had a great time,
(25:44):
shared stories, laughed and giggled, and it was over the
death of somebody like this is.
Speaker 6 (25:50):
And this was actually for his birthday because yeah, and
that was like one of his favorite things to do
at his parties with the silly string. So I mean,
and if it was a celebration of life, like I
mean in Mexico, that's.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
What they do at memorials.
Speaker 6 (26:06):
It they literally feast and spend time with each other
and it's like a party, right and nobody.
Speaker 7 (26:13):
I mean, there's a funeral, there's a way, there's but
the celebrates their life's of the person and the way
they live their life.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
And they wouldn't want to work.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Right, And a birthday, a birthday is just that, a
celebration of life.
Speaker 6 (26:28):
So and all the invitations and stuff had already went
out for his party for that day, so they wanted
to let the people that were invited to his party
originally come to the grave site and literally celebrate in
part and do like a little party for him.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
And I know, in the middle of some of my
grief over people having passed, I've had my moments of laughter,
giggles and otherwise, And it seems to be some way
for solace or to you know, alleviate some of that
paid and grief that's going on in your heart to
give you a moment of positivity. And it is not
a bad thing by any means. So I wanted to
(27:08):
talk about Darley Rutier because I am more interested in
her husband now than I thought I ever could be too.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
WHOA, Okay, I'm glad you said that.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
So she's basically sentenced to death for the murder of
one son and has not actually been to trial for
the second son at this point, which really makes no sense. Basically,
they she claimed to have fallen asleep on the couch
and the kids had done a sleepover with her downstairs.
Her husband and the youngest child were upstairs. This all
(27:39):
really kind of sounds really familiar to some of the
cases that we've talked about where others were in the
house and claim to have not heard a thing while
somebody was being murdered. So we know that this is
possible because it's happened more than once throughout our presentation.
I'm just a little confused on her injuries, because nowhere
(27:59):
could I find that she said she engaged this particular
intruder or fought with him. So I'm a little discombobulated
on that, but hopefully you can enlighten me, because, like
I said, I haven't had a lot of time. They
are appealing again and they're running DNA tests since in
twenty eighteen, I did not find any information in regards
to the completion of these tests or what they surmised.
(28:20):
We know that they're wondo.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
It and how that just blows me.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
We're solving crimes like DeAngelo and you know, as of
recently some more based on DNA and it's taking how
long since twenty eighteen to get these DNA tests done.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
This is a little.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Disgusting as far as I'm concerned. This test should have
been ran immediately. If this woman is innocent, she doesn't
belong spending another day in prison, just like Peter Wilson. Now,
from what I can grab from the scene is that
they indicated there was a thumbprint on an end table
that did not match any of the family members. However,
one forensic technician had indicated that he could not exclude
(29:06):
the ring finger of Darlee as being the print that
was there. Now, not being able to rule somebody out
is different than being able to make an identification, and
this kind of lousy forensic testifying that we saw in
Peter Wilson case is really what I'm reading has gone
down in this particular case as well. So basically, on
(29:28):
June sixth of nineteen sixty six, she goes to sleep
at two thirty one in the morning, she's dialing nine
to one one. She happens to be the one that
calls the police. I don't know if I could literally
commit a crime such as that and then turn around
and call the police. But some of the evidence that's
is really disturbing me, as this sock with blood on
it that is a match to the blood from the
family that was found seventy five yards outside of the house,
(29:50):
and it is indicated there's no possible way for her
to have left the scene of the crime while on
the phone with the impending death of the second son,
who purported only would have lasted eight minutes bleeding out
in the manner in which he was stabbed, and she
was on the phone with nine to one one for
six of those minutes, so that would have left her
two minutes to literally jog two hundred and twenty five
(30:12):
feet down the road, drop a soft drog back two
hundred and twenty five feet and then they claimed she
cleaned herself up at the kitchen sink.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
Did she really?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
I'm really trying, I'm trying to suck all this down,
but I'm having a hard time.
Speaker 6 (30:26):
What did you look at the photos of the sink,
It clearly does not look like she was cleaning up.
It clearly looks like she was in there, like trying
to get away or trying to get some towels for
the boys to cover their wounds, because apparently she had
some dish rags in there and that's what she would
win in there for. And then if you look at
(30:47):
the same photo of the sink, it literally looks like
she was searching for something. So it's clear go here, Yeah,
she was going over there to get some dish towels
to cover up the wounds and try to, you know,
do whatever she can for the boys while.
Speaker 5 (31:05):
Weapon.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Yeah, so let me oh, let me oh, where am
I going?
Speaker 5 (31:10):
All right?
Speaker 2 (31:11):
So evidently this is a butcher knife, or this is
a knife from the butcher bocket. Looks like a bread
knife basically to me that was used for this the
blood And you can see this schematic up over here
that is describing the blood from red is supposed to
be damon, so that is here, and we have blood
(31:31):
over here, Darlee, we have blood pretty much all over
the place. I mean, here's the kitchen, here's the utility room.
But she did indication she felt that the intruder had
left out the utility room and that this her blood
being found here probably would be explainable if she had
(31:51):
chased after this individual and then DeVaughn in Yellow was
literally kind of just isolated to this one spot. So
that would almost indicate if this blood of this individual
is being tracked all over the place, is either being
tracked by the assailant or literally is being ran around
the entire house. And her blood is pretty much everywhere,
(32:14):
back and forth. But as you said, if she's going
to the kitchen and grabbing, you know, towels and making
her way back over to the boys, that would explain
how her blood then ends up in these locations as well.
It is a horrendous crime scene. I mean, look at
this house. Though it's a very affluent. Go ahead, Nolan.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
A couple of questions, was the knife from inside the
house was her?
Speaker 5 (32:36):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Okay? And where was the father?
Speaker 2 (32:40):
And all this upstairs supposedly asleep with the infant not
woke into anything until his wife screams for him.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
At the end, yep with there was a third child,
then a younger child, yes, a seven month old that
was upstairs with him. Apparently he was being.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Evidently she had awoken, I think, to hearing one of
the children's scream, but that doesn't tell me when she
was stabbed versus them. Again, we were not getting really
kind of a clear story of what transpired.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
She made it.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
So she woke up to a scream, found both of
them stabbed, and I would assume at that point that
she was also injured herself or stabbed.
Speaker 6 (33:23):
Yeah, why when she woke up, she was already stabbed.
So a lot of people think, including her stepsister who
is on her side and trying to get her out
because of this, because they don't think obviously she did it.
They think that she was in some type of psychosis, uh,
(33:46):
maybe passed out and she remember And so the bits
and pieces that she does remember that she has reported
it doesn't make sense because it's different pieces. Because as
we know, our brain is is it actually is used
as a defense mechanism in our brains to protect us
from certain things. And I know it sounds crazy, but
(34:07):
that's literally how the brain works. So they could possibly
cause some type of psychosis where it's trying to protect you.
Speaker 5 (34:15):
From things that it doesn't want you to remember. If
that makes sense, you can look it up.
Speaker 6 (34:21):
I don't know if you are familiar with that, but
it is definitely a sign. It is definitely a scientific
thing that can just has captain in many cases.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
So watching her, I was just watching I was just
watching a reality show not too long ago, in which
case one of the individuals had been woken up by
their significant other and of course he went to bed
kind of inebriated. So if she's on any type of
drugs for postpartum depression or anything else that could have
inebriated her to a certain degree, he gets woken up
(34:51):
and literally for the first five to six minutes, he
is so out there. He asked the same question seven times,
like his brain could not click and come and like
rationalize what was occurring at that very moment. So for
her to have woken up in that state, but would
also somebody wake up after being stabbed, She says she
(35:12):
was woken up by the screen of the sun versus
you know, would you wake up to your body being
slashed and stabbed like?
Speaker 7 (35:21):
That?
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Was the dad of her suspect.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
No, evidently, which is very interesting. So he evidently when
they met, was a seventeen year old assistant manager at
some joint that eventually grew really fast into great degrees
of wealth. You can see this house here, it's a
gorgeous house. The neighborhood absolutely beautiful. The amount of jewelry
she's got sitting just in one location, I'm sure doesn't
(35:46):
encompass every single piece she owns, but you can see
there's a lot of gold sitting on that counter.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
Very nice.
Speaker 5 (35:53):
Actually, he made his he was his self made.
Speaker 6 (35:59):
I guess I don't know how much he would make
it made, but he was a self made what do
you call it, uh.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
Entrepreneurs, Yeah, entrepreneur.
Speaker 5 (36:09):
And they made the computer boards what they called.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Ope, you were you were saying that motherboards?
Speaker 6 (36:17):
Yes, they yes, he created those, that's what they created
for in his business.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
That's extremely and then puts it right up there in
the realm of if somebody wants that business, they they.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Are able to take it.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Some of the theories and now look, I see this,
you know, crime scene again with all this blood everywhere.
And one of the theories was that he had or
that she They were in financial straits and owed a
lot of money, now to whom we don't know, one
could suspect to the all because that seems to be
who you borrowed money from those days, and and and
(36:53):
the taking of children or family members in order to
instill some type of message is something we've definitely seen
them do.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
But the DA.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Actually suspected that this was a financial motivation. She was
trying to alleviate herself of expenses of these children. But
why kill the two older ones? They're much cheaper than
the younger one, and they only had life insurance policies
of ten thousand apiece, which was only going to be
enough to literally actually bury them. Turns out the husband
(37:22):
had a life insurance policy of eight hundred thousand, So
why not kill the husband instead of the kids?
Speaker 3 (37:28):
That's yeah, that seems like an odd motive.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Yeah, very odd motive. It doesn't make sense, but that's
what they wanted to claim. So basically going through this
information and putting so fingerprint expert Pat Wurthheim would later
testify before in a Pierce Court that he could not
rule out Darley Rutier's right ring finger as the source
of the print. But nobody can explain this bloody sock
(37:54):
seventy five yards from the house. I did read additional
information that indicated that the DA sounds to me like
another Peter Wilson case where they, you know, withheld information,
they did limited forensics, then they testified badly to those
forensics in order to secure a conviction. I've read an
article that now says one of the jurors who had
(38:16):
convicted her of being the culprit has now stated that
them that them themselves and other jurors have indicated that
they decided this case wrongly and that it couldn't have
been her that killed them.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
I just look at her, let's go back.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
I just look at her wounds and wonder how anybody
could inflict this type of pain to themselves.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
She is bruised all over her hands, Yeah, that's understand.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Cut marks, yeah, I mean cut marks up and down
her arms. She's got slash marks across her neck and
how I'm trying to imagine how she would have done
this one that trailed all the way down her should
I would have thought if this was so excruciating once
you cut this one initial part, you wouldn't have continued on, yeah, downward.
(39:09):
And this actual gap right here makes me wonder if
she wasn't in a laying down position where the shoulder
was then tucked more closely to her opposite side of
her neck that she was cut on.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
And then that's how that.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Skip in that cut actually appeared, is because her shoulder
was folding in, because she was truly laying down sleeping.
Speaker 7 (39:30):
Yeah, if the next one than the other one, that
would seem to be a skip and then just the
tip of knife caught the shoulder.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Right and yeah, And of course they said something like
two millimeters away from actually cutting her jugular, so she
would would have died, and maybe the culprit did think
that he successfully cut her jugular. Now, there's been some
recent information in which the ex husband he believes her
(39:59):
innocence and had the leader innocence. They divorced in twenty eleven,
but new information is revealed that he had wanted to
do an insurance scam and was looking around for individuals
to rob the house steal his property that he could
then turn around and reclaim from the burglars once it
had occurred, and that this was or may have been
(40:21):
the attempt to do so. There's talks about infidelity, there's
talks about financial ruins, there's talks about a bad marriage.
But the bottom line is is that he eventually admitted
to the fact that he was, if not joking about it.
He says he never acted on it, he never actually
paid anybody to do it, but that he was talking
with other individuals, including Darley's step dad or something like
(40:44):
that in regards to perpetrating this burglary or this robbery
as an insurance scam to get caught up. And Nolan,
what's crazy as all he owed was twenty two thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
That's nothing.
Speaker 4 (40:55):
Nothing.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
And here's the deal. This guy he was super young, right,
I mean he made his money agun. Yeah, and they
needed to.
Speaker 7 (41:06):
Look at him a lot closer, all his dealings and
whatnot before they prosecuted. I think they jump a gun.
I'm not saying, and I'm not you know, but I'm
saying there's a lot of loose ends, shall we say,
to just jump like to rush to judgment.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Right, Yeah, So I looked up who is Darren Rudier.
Darren and Darley Rudier had met at a restaurant in Lubbock, Texas.
You guys, Lubbock is where Jack is from, of all
the places in that gigantic state, Lubbock, Texas on the
afternoon of Mother's Day in May of nineteen eighty five,
after the latter's mother had set up a meeting between
(41:47):
them working at the same eatery where Darren, at just seventeen,
proved to be an ambitious assistant manager. She knew that
he'd be a good match for her fifteen year old daughter,
so in nineteen eighty five, they waited till nineteen eighty
eight to get married until she turned eighteen, so he's
literally twenty years old when they get married in nineteen
(42:07):
eighty eight. They had their first date that same evening,
fell in love became inseparable. In fact, they only waited
till August of nineteen eighty eight to get married due
to their age. And it says and he was an
entrepreneur since he was thirteen years of age, and Darren
was doing very well at the time as an assistant manager. Okay, okay, yeah, well,
(42:33):
so then that means that I then map out the
why again does Jack keep these phone bills? If Jack
was notorious for keeping all his receipts, I wouldn't be
questioning it. But like my dad, who kept everything, he
had every bill and every receipt all the way back
to the Dawn's end of time, he had kept throughout
his entire life, and I had to discard it when.
Speaker 4 (42:55):
He passed here.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
With Jack, he only keeps certain things, and of course
these phone billspen to be two of the things he kept.
I thought the Boulder, Colorado stuff was going to relate
more to what he was doing with John Benney Ramsay,
but then it turns out to be this whole secret
banking system that's going on. So I then map quest
where the Rutier's crime occurred in relation to Big Springs
(43:21):
and Port Arthur, and it looks like both of these
areas are about as far away from the Rudiers crime
scene as the newspapers that ran are from Jack's house
about four hours and fifty two minutes. Literally, this one's
four hours and fifty three from Rolette, Texas to Port Arthur.
I don't know if that makes a succinct triangle or
(43:43):
what that's going on.
Speaker 4 (43:44):
Here, but then Big Springs to.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Rolette, Texas is four hours and forty four minutes, so
roughly about the same timeframe as it is from Jack's
house to Port Arthur. All right, anybody have anything to
add to that, anything you want to talk about, lindsay
on that case, not on that case personally.
Speaker 7 (44:08):
But I just finished the I forty five docuseries on Netflix.
It's crazy on how many murders in Texas that people
got away with. I think several of those murders they
end on three different people, and rightly so, but there's way.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
More that are unsolved that we're solved.
Speaker 7 (44:29):
Correct And Jack that's his stomping ground too, so and
I don't know how close this was I forty five,
but it's Texas still, it's is there one.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
Of the guys.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
Yeah, if you want to get away with the murderer,
do it here.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Do it in Texas? Clearly, do it in Texas. Why
are range is hundreds of thousands of millions of miles, the.
Speaker 7 (44:51):
Attitude of the of the of the law enforcement, and
the reluctance to pursue. And then when finally, when Arley
was a younger girl from a good family, then they
pursue it.
Speaker 4 (45:05):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
It's like a woman who worked in a bar, or
this is that a single bomb? Blah blah blah. They oh,
they brought it on themselves. This was the attitude of
the cops.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
Exactly.
Speaker 7 (45:18):
It's just, you know, you don't probably one life more
than the other. Your duty is to investigate a homicide.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Well, and here's the thing that's the ad homin an argument.
When you can't do anything about with evidence or facts,
you then beat up on the character of the person. Right, Yeah,
you have to be little down because you're doing a
lousy job and you can't figure it out.
Speaker 4 (45:38):
So now you've got to make it sound as though.
Speaker 7 (45:41):
Or there's complicity with law enforcement, or maybe some of
the go over its affiliated with law enforcement. We see
Dan Angelo Williams law enforcement, and oftentimes people are either
affiliated or or are actual law enforcement, and it's weight
or or their security guards, their uniformed jack security are
(46:01):
a lot of different Thane Caesar.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Was a security right.
Speaker 7 (46:05):
A lot of times uniformed people get away with more
shit than someone that's in playing.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Clothes exactly, and we know that Suspicious too talked about
uniforms that were either security guards or cop like which
made the person almost trustable for the individuals who were
then victimized by that that particular individualized.
Speaker 7 (46:27):
And then when they're fleeing crime scenes or whatnot, they're
not thought of.
Speaker 4 (46:31):
As suspects exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Well, So climbing back into Jack, because I really thought
we were going to hit John in a Ramsey this week,
but it turns out we are. We had to push
that forward, and I'm not going to be upset by
that by any means, because I really did lose myself
down a rabbit hole and that was some great research, Lindsey.
I can't wait to see what we have in store
for John ben a Ramsey. But back to Jack. At
this point, we have a couple minutes left. We are
(46:56):
seeing I did not know AARP was around since nineteen
ninety six, did anybody else?
Speaker 4 (47:01):
I really that they were a long term I had
no clue.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
So it's funny to see some of the stuff you
aren't even realizing you know that has been around as
an insurance. So every time I see anything on insurance,
I automatically.
Speaker 4 (47:15):
Go to unions. I go to mob paid.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
Protection like I just and these insurance companies were the
ones that would like to give loans, right, I mean,
that's what they were doing back in these days.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
I was a member of aar Pizza n eight.
Speaker 6 (47:34):
But you are I'm old, and we have and we
have John Walsh doing ads for them too in the
in the two thousands.
Speaker 4 (47:43):
Oh really, go figure.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
Yeah, I have so many thoughts about insurance companies, it's unreal.
Uh So, Anyways, on October sixteenth of nineteen ninety six,
AARP forwarded mail from the ten forty seven PO box,
which I believe was Jack or Nora's I'm sorry Flova's
residence to the Nelda Street address, which is in sagein Texas.
Billion statements for landlines confirmed Nelda Street through at least
(48:09):
December of nineteen ninety six, and we see that on
November sixth of nineteen ninety six, Flova gives power of
attorney to Jack in Texas, so we know that he
is back in Texas at this point in time for
who knows how long I believe, at least until his
mother passes, which brings us to November eleventh, nineteen ninety six,
when Jack so he gets power of attorney of his
(48:32):
mother on November sixth, and on November eleventh, he takes
the entire family to California. That I guess also leads
me money, if you know what, possibly, but that leads
that leads me to believe once again that yes, in fact,
Flova is in a care home at this point. So
(48:53):
we see these are entries out of Nora's diary and
it is nineteen ninety six. Stress begins and unfortunately we're
down to about our last forty seconds here and we're
going to have to do our sign off. So we're
going to be getting into some of the heart of
the most interesting parts of nineteen ninety six, and that
is Christmas of nineteen ninety six, where Jack was and
what was going on. I want to thank you again
(49:15):
so much, Lindsay for all your research and Nolan for
being here. Is there anything you guys would like to
say before we head out.
Speaker 5 (49:24):
For the next one.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
All right, everybody, have a wonderful weekend and we'll see
you all next Friday.
Speaker 4 (49:29):
Pepe, thanks
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial, legal, counseling,
professional service, or any advice. You should seek the services
(00:23):
of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 2 (00:52):
Good Morning, True seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
I'd like to start by welcoming to the show. Nolan
del Campo, Good morning everybody. Good morning, fabulous week out there,
lots of rain, little sunshine. We're ready for fall and winter.
(01:12):
It looks like, yes, we are. I know that we
were going to get started here on some research that
was continued and followed up from the phone numbers that
were dialed out to Colorado from Jack's phone bill, and
of course Lindsay had done some stellar research on that
(01:33):
she was able to actually locate what these numbers went to,
which I was kind of shocked over. And of course
we're waiting for her to get on because I did
not want to start without her.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
There's a box says present, is that her?
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Hey, hey, good day, perfect timing, all right, okay, So
Lindsey took it upon herself to throw these phone numbers
into a search system.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Now, what is this search system that you use?
Speaker 5 (02:09):
Is cyber background checks dot com?
Speaker 4 (02:13):
Cyber background checks dot com? Does that cost money?
Speaker 6 (02:17):
If you want a thorough search, then yeah, but you
can do a basic search on there for free. But
I'd pay the monthly whatever fee it is. I think
it's only like sixty nine or something like that.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
Really, I could probably use something like that, especially with
the numerous amount of phone numbers that I've gotten here.
So cyber background checks dot com.
Speaker 7 (02:38):
Huh, I think I could write that off minute?
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Oh I can, Yes, we can. Ha. We do hear
what she found? I mean, like.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Literally, I was pretty stoked. I'm very impressed with what
she got here, all right. So she ran the numbers
the three oh three four nine four four seven seven four.
I think that ultimately you determined that what I found
that was calling in for the accuracy on.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
Time, correct, yep? Okay.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
And then the second number was the three zero three
six three seven six nine two, And of course I
did go back and look at Jack's records to notice
that he also dialed a six one nine one, which
came up in your search. During the search for this,
you show that this area code covers Denver, Aurora, Arvada, Westminster,
(03:28):
and Boulder. And at first I thought to myself, like, wow,
like Boulder, Colorado, you mean we're we're about ready to
step into this whole John Bane Ramsey thing, like this
is a little crazy, but it looks to me like
it might be wrapping out to something completely different. So
we're going to cover what it was that she found. So, hello,
(03:49):
I guess I need to get to my presentation.
Speaker 4 (03:50):
There we go. Now it works all right.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
So you found that these phone numbers led back to
actual articles and newspapers. Correct, yep, the first one you
found was bring Big Spring, Harold, and that is an
article date of May thirty first, nineteen ninety six. While
some of this writing is just so small, I laughed
(04:15):
because one of the first things I saw on there
was actually a cartoon.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
Of I'm not Bob, I'm not Bill campaign ninety six.
So far it says clearly one is Bill Clinton. Who's
the other guy? Goal?
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Goal goal?
Speaker 4 (04:39):
Now what were they running for? What was the King
in ninety Oh okay, yeah, tells you how much I
like you Clinton, Sam Yah.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, And I certainly didn't vote for him, so I
don't even recall. But yeah, So that was a very
interesting little article there, and some of the other articles
that I found, and I'm just going to breathe through them.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
I'm not going to read them.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
A fellow's conviction overturned because he understood his sentence.
Speaker 4 (05:04):
This was a child molester.
Speaker 2 (05:06):
Basically, he had committed some child crimes and he had
pled guilty, and in his actual sentencing, his attorney read
to him the sentences that he could possibly receive by
admitting to this plea of guilty. And then it was
ultimately overturned and he was released because they said the
(05:28):
judge didn't read those sentences to him, that his attorney dead,
and that somehow that was piled play by the court.
The court should have read it. But either way, he
got off and he was released, set free.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Do they try him though they read charge and retri.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I couldn't, but he was pleading guilty, so there was
no trial, right.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
But that's the technicality. The judges are supposed to read the.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Advisor, Okay, but it wasn't for lack of him knowing
what his potential sentence.
Speaker 7 (06:01):
Obviously, Also, if the DA did not object, the d should.
Speaker 4 (06:05):
Have objected, the judge should have. If it was the judges.
Speaker 7 (06:09):
Judge, Yeah, that was just it was bad lawyering and judging.
But at the same time, that's harmless error if he understood.
But as long as you review the word for word
advisors and they're the same thing, the judge would have read.
But that's that's what they call it technicality.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
That's a stupid technicality.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
So from what I can tell, and to me, I
thought to myself, like, honestly, was that something pre planned?
Speaker 5 (06:36):
You know me?
Speaker 7 (06:38):
Yeah, I would think in most jurisdictions, well in California anyway,
that they would be recharged or retried.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
I just know that so many times in the courtroom
when an attorney tries to tell the judge what his
job is or tries to object to something that is
obviously the judge's job to make make a decision on that,
judge loves to slam these attorneys and say, hey, that's
my job. That's why I sit here, that's why I
get the big money, right right, I'm the gatekeeper. I
(07:12):
get to make those decisions. Blah blah blah. Either way,
it was just an interesting article. And then we of
course had this gentleman border he was actually a colonel
in the military. He supposedly committed suicide over some stupid
questions in regards to two little bows that he was
wearing for some service that he had done, and they
(07:35):
claimed that he wasn't in active battle when he was
in fact on a ship, because I believe he was Navy.
Either way, it's a very suspicious death surrounding this guy
supposedly committing suicide as a colonel in the military because
somebody questioned whether or not he should be wearing ribbons
that attributed to him being.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
In active combat.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
I thought that is the most ridiculous reason for suicide
I've ever heard in my life. Anyways, had to share that, especially.
Speaker 3 (08:01):
If he was deemed to be in combat.
Speaker 7 (08:03):
If he was on ship during the combat, then technically
he is involved in combat. He may not be like
pulling a trigger or being exposed to gunfire or weaponry,
but he's at war at that point.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
Basically, why couldn't those ships be blown up just like
any other ship? I mean, technically speaking, if you're where
the freaking war is. You have a potential for being
blown up, whether you're on land or at sea.
Speaker 7 (08:30):
Yeah, but again back to your point, it seems like
it's unless it was true. The allegations were true, and
he got to embarrass so badly that he was trying
to say something that wasn't true. But from what I'm hearing,
it was true. So why did you clear yourself over that?
Speaker 2 (08:50):
And what I really picked up from the article, which
really kind of it just fits in with what I've
been saying about media weaponizing themselves against people, is that
it appears as though this was whole this was a
I gotcha type media project of we're going to defame
(09:12):
and you know, denounce you and make you look bad.
But even then, nothing was so bad that somebody would
want to commit suicide over it. However, we're seeing the
media actively use weaponizing themselves against individuals, obviously to either
tarnish their record or to bring them down or to
do something. And ultimately they claim this guy committed suicide,
(09:34):
but it possibly could have been suicided, and this is
just the story or the background that they've put together
in order to facilitate their narrative. Another article that was
extremely interesting to me was a murder attempting cartel hierarchy
shows rules changing around Cali and the bottom line is
(09:54):
still showing Columbia is the head of cocaine and and cartels,
and we have people, you know, killing people and taking
people out and again killing family members, which is going
to bring us to something else that you've researched, Lindsay
on the Routier case we're going to be talking about
(10:15):
here in a few minutes. But aside from that, I
did find that you your research showed that the ad
that we're about to talk about that shows that phone
number that Jack called came out in four different newspapers,
one in Indiana, one in Kentucky. I know that this
only includes Port Arthur, Texas, but we clearly see that
(10:36):
it did run in a newspaper for Big Springs, Texas
as well, and then Laurel, Mississippi, on the Laurel Leader newspaper.
None of these did I find consistent with any of
the other newspapers. Did a little research on the Big Springs.
It didn't look like it was anything ever owned by Hurst,
so I was trying to see if there was any
tie in there as to why or May and we
(10:59):
see this one on March thirty or yeah, March May
thirty first, and Jack makes the phone calls on June tenth,
which is obviously four days after the Rootier escapade and
at least after the point I can I can think of.
So what I'm trying to read here is that in
Indiana it ran the eighth through the fourteenth. That's what
(11:21):
that's indicating, right, Yeah, no, quick on the.
Speaker 3 (11:25):
Out side, the author of the columnst was Mike Roykok
and he used to run in the bad Now.
Speaker 7 (11:31):
I don't know if he wrote to the b and
now syndicated or the beat cart is syndicated column, but
his column used to run.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Into be Sacramento Bee Yeah huh, which is also where okay,
all right, it was just a little yeah, a little
side note Corbin, Kentucky. It ran May twenty fifth, nineteen
ninety six through June fifteenth, but it didn't run on
May twenty ninth and on June second, So it sounds
to me like they paid for that ad run through
(12:00):
that entire time. Port Arthur, Texas ran only May thirtieth,
nineteen ninety six. June sixth and June thirteenth, so only
three actual runs in Port Arthur, Texas and Laurel, Mississippi,
ran from June first through June twenty first, but not
on the second or eighth of June. So we now
have a place where this phone number appears the Big Herald.
(12:24):
I kind of did a breakdown just to see where
it's at. It indicated that it was only circulated within
the let's see Howard County area of West Texas, which
is approximately nine hundred square miles. We can see that
that is literally up over in this direction. Jack is
down here in the Sageen, Texas area based on the
(12:46):
mail that we're looking at, which is approximately four hours
and fifty two minutes away from it, with the closest
drive to Big Springs, where this actual newspaper could have
been picked up. So it kind of boggles me how
Jack came across this newspaper article to begin with, since
it was so far away.
Speaker 7 (13:08):
Where did the officer Legensy commit suicide in Texas?
Speaker 3 (13:14):
Uh?
Speaker 2 (13:15):
It would have been Big Springs, so it will at least, yeah,
at least, let's see, Jeremy Borda killed himself with a
bullet to the chest.
Speaker 4 (13:24):
Now, not many people kill themselves with a bullet to
the chest.
Speaker 7 (13:27):
I mean.
Speaker 4 (13:30):
Yeah. And there's little mystery as to why he did it.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
The Navy's tap man knew it was likely he would
soon end his remarkable, remarkable career in embarrassment, shame, or
even disgrace. How it doesn't even make any sense if
he was given these ribbons. He was given these ribbons,
and you have to get given them, right. You don't
just give them to yourself, right, I hope so. But
I'm any ribbons that you bear on your chest has
(13:56):
been given to you by a superior officer somewhere.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
I thought it worked.
Speaker 2 (14:02):
Let's see the reason. Until a year ago, he had
worn two tiny ribbons on his chest that indicated he
had been in combat in Vietnam. Military experts now differ
as to whether he was entitled to wear these ribbons.
Some say no because he had not been indirectly involved
in combat, Others say yes because he served on ships
that were in the combat zone, and others say maybe
(14:22):
so it's it's the stupidest thing ever for anybody to
have willingly committed suicide over I can't make out it is.
It is coming up in the big Springs, Texas. So
I'm thinking bored if fifty six was almost certain to
be it on the media hot seat and wanted to
stick it to Admiral Borda, maybe those who had an
(14:44):
axe to grind, jealous colleagues or someone with a grudge.
So they're looking at it, you know, from very different
ways as to why this even became a news But
we know that the newspapers and the media love that
whole we gotcha moment, whether it's true or not. Newsweek
climbed on board. I see like all kinds of it
(15:04):
says it was too juicy of a story for today's
gotcha journalists to resist a man of prominence and achievement. Ah,
but with a hidden and embarrassing secret and flaw makes
no sense to me.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Anyways.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
They trying to make it exciting, right, so they could
be talking about somebody from a different area.
Speaker 4 (15:23):
But it ran in the Big Springs.
Speaker 2 (15:25):
Issue, needless to say, like we were saying, this article,
or at least this particular newspaper was approximately three hundred
and thirty one miles away from Jack And in the
classified section, lindsay you found.
Speaker 4 (15:41):
Tell us about this one. Ah.
Speaker 5 (15:44):
So so when I searched.
Speaker 6 (15:46):
When I first searched it up, I was like, I
found like the several newspapers, but only certain ones as
you stated. And then whenever, the first thing that caught
my eye was the word secret, and I was like, wait,
is this the number?
Speaker 5 (16:00):
Is this number under this?
Speaker 6 (16:01):
Because it had, you know, it pulls the number that
I searched, and it highlights it, so like my eye
immediately went there to secret, and I was like secret,
secret banking, secret banking systems, Oh my god.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
And then I just was like stuck in that little.
Speaker 6 (16:17):
Rabbit hole for like a couple of hours or so,
and I just started jotting every single thing down, like
the dates that.
Speaker 5 (16:26):
That this particular AD ran.
Speaker 6 (16:28):
And then, as you can see, with something odd about it,
I thought was like, it's a twenty four hour recorded
line with a pre recorded message reveals whatever you need
to get this four thousand dollars to open this new
bank account, to.
Speaker 5 (16:48):
Make this four thousand dollars.
Speaker 6 (16:49):
I guess, uh, they're trying to get you to open
a bank account.
Speaker 2 (16:53):
It makes it sound to me it's okay. So the
ad read secret banking systems, open bank accounts, make four
thousand a day amazing twenty four hour free recorded message
reveals details and it has two numbers, and both of
these numbers can be found on Jack's bill. I took
that to mean that they're asking people to assist in
(17:15):
opening bank accounts for others. I mean, how many bank
accounts does somebody need?
Speaker 7 (17:21):
I think this is nobody's going to reply to that.
I think it was a contact number for Jack.
Speaker 5 (17:28):
Yeah, I definitely thought it was a code.
Speaker 2 (17:31):
We were definitely definitely thinking in that direction because it's
like I used to tell my dad, My dad was
a huge get me on for all of these oh
make thirty two thousand dollars a month doing blah blah blah.
I'm like, Dad, if that were possible, wouldn't everybody do it?
Nobody be working anymore, We'd all just hop into that bandwagon.
We'd all make it happen. So, either this makes Jack
(17:51):
look like less than the intelligent individual for reaching out
to these individuals to make four thousand dollars a day.
Speaker 4 (17:59):
Oh, there's more.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
To this particular and it is listed in the classified
its unless I remind you, we just got done talking
about the fact that the cartel and the mafia and
all of these people in the syndicate still exist in
nineteen ninety six, and that the CIA and all of
these other individuals actually used the classified newspapers to give
messages back and forth. And we've actually seen that occur
(18:22):
in the Zodiac case right where they're talking from the
Oh gosh, I forgot the zodiac sign that was on it,
but they were talking to the Zodiac in regards to
other people, the masters and so forth in I believe
this group of individuals. But yes, this was a very
(18:43):
interesting fine, lindsay.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
So I went ahead and I mapped that out.
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Port Arthur, Texas would have been another likely place because
it's in Texas that Jack could have received it. So
I ran those distances and literally from where Jack was
at this is Port Arthur is three hours and thirty
seven minutes away and two hundred and fifty miles if
you drove straight through Highway ten all the way to
(19:08):
Port Arthur, which really lines up against the border of Atlanta, Georgia, basically,
which I've discussed before, the path that Jack would take
was Highway ten in most cases. So I did one
more search and I looked at it in relation to
League City in Galveston, It's approximately an hour and twenty
eight minutes away from League City in Galveston, so much
(19:29):
closer obviously that the other location, but very far out
there for Jack to have driven to have received, picked
up or or you know, gotten this particular newspaper. And
of course Port Arthur was a completely different newspaper it was. Oh,
it didn't say which one. It just said Port Arthur, Texas.
So it didn't actually say what the newspaper was that
(19:51):
ran it, so I couldn't check on that one either way.
Very very interesting. Now this is the law of leader.
This one ran in miss Missippi, so it clearly has.
And so was this a reach out to four different
members of the group.
Speaker 5 (20:06):
Yeah, that's what I was thinking, to tell you.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
That we're let them know and they would be able
to decode. I mean, clearly Jack was a man of
decoding if that message was received on the other end.
So I went back and I looked to see how
long Jack had actually spent on these particular phone calls.
I want to say that on the let's see here.
Speaker 4 (20:31):
Come on, Okay, Nope, that's time.
Speaker 5 (20:36):
I think you passed it, you do, I saw it.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
I think it was back further because it was June.
Oh huh, you're right, yeah, yeah, see yeah, that's nineteen
ninety five, ninety six, February YouTube there, No, that's cable bills.
(21:01):
Nothing there, okay, right here. So on June tenth, there
was three phone calls placed, and that means that he
had to have gotten it from an at well, he
either picked that newspaper up from somebody else that had
sent it on to him after that date, because I
don't believe that the dates actually coincide with the Texas runs,
(21:22):
but we don't know when Big Springs actually ran it.
So he spent one minute on the phone message with
sixty one nine one, So why turn around and called
sixty one nine two. I would assume that they put
two phone numbers in there if it were to be
to compensate for several phone callers, right, if one was busy,
(21:43):
you could.
Speaker 4 (21:44):
Call at that kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Yeah, So he did one minute at then sixty one
nine one number. Then he did the six one ninety
two and spent two minutes on it, and then he
turned around and he called back. And this all happened
between ten twenty six and eleven thirty pm on the tenth,
So we did two minutes, and then he called back
and spent another minute on the six one number. Why
(22:08):
so many times if you got the information that you needed.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
Again, writ it down. It wasn't what it was supposed
to what it purported to be. That's my take.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
Anyway, Yeah, say that again.
Speaker 3 (22:22):
It was what the ad wasn't what it was purported
to be.
Speaker 7 (22:27):
It was something else, and he was supposed to call
it and get certain information, and he did.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
He did. He certainly he had to call both numbers.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah, yeah, even though that says or that may be
an indication you need to call both to get exactly
what it is that you need to get from it.
Speaker 4 (22:45):
Who knows? Yeah, code too, well, you know what.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
And let's err on the side of you know, Devil's
advocate and say this was just a scam. Does that
mean that we've been being scammed by people for a very.
Speaker 4 (22:58):
Long time, ever forever?
Speaker 2 (23:04):
And I saw even more things that looked like scams
inside that newspaper as I was reading the classifieds.
Speaker 4 (23:09):
I did actually.
Speaker 2 (23:10):
Download and print out the entire newspaper from Big Springs.
So well that brings us to Oh and by the way,
I did look up the dancing at relies. I do
not know why that girl even put out there that
I should even.
Speaker 4 (23:22):
Look at that.
Speaker 2 (23:23):
That literally was some type of ridiculousness where five people
from out of the country had been temporarily held as
being suspicious but were then released because they had nothing
to do with the nine to eleven attacks. But then
this conspiracy theory or the story came about about how
they were dancing to the success of the nine to
eleven events, which turned out to be completely false and untrue.
(23:45):
But you know, it's got to run its realm with
everybody as far as conspiracies are concerned. So there was
really nothing to take off of that. And I don't
know why that person referred me to even look at that.
That was the stupidest thing I ever read.
Speaker 6 (23:58):
Ah Well, because Israel had they think that had a
partake into into the nine to eleven well.
Speaker 2 (24:06):
They want to try and say that that's where she
got it from. Well but even then, so these people
have been found to be innocent released. They were just tourists, right,
They probably went back home, no big deal. Whatever they
were doing probably had nothing to do with the nine
to eleven events at all, Otherwise they wouldn't have been
released and sent home. I mean I did watch that movie,
like I said, where they held that one guy they
(24:28):
that they thought had some information, not that he was
part of but he had some information, and he was
what held seven years in Guantanamo being tortured and beaten
and sleep deprived and music blurring at him and all
these things that we see on the Ozark Netflix series.
So if they would, they would have done that to
(24:48):
these five, if they thought literally there was anything that
they had to offer.
Speaker 3 (24:54):
Brown.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Ah, that is crazy funny now what you led me to. However, Lindsay,
on the other hand, literally bought up my entire morning
this morning, because none of what we're about to share
right now was even in my presentation until this morning.
I thought I might as well take a look at
this Darly Routier stuff and see what's going on. And
I think that I vaguely remember back in whatever time frame,
(25:22):
it was the sprain of the Silly String and everybody
jumping on board against this woman who purportedly was appearing
to have too much fun after her children had died.
I don't know about you, but I've been to several
celebrations of life where we literally partied, had a great time,
(25:44):
shared stories, laughed and giggled, and it was over the
death of somebody like this is.
Speaker 6 (25:50):
And this was actually for his birthday because yeah, and
that was like one of his favorite things to do
at his parties with the silly string. So I mean,
and if it was a celebration of life, like I
mean in Mexico, that's.
Speaker 5 (26:03):
What they do at memorials.
Speaker 6 (26:06):
It they literally feast and spend time with each other
and it's like a party, right and nobody.
Speaker 7 (26:13):
I mean, there's a funeral, there's a way, there's but
the celebrates their life's of the person and the way
they live their life.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
And they wouldn't want to work.
Speaker 2 (26:23):
Right, And a birthday, a birthday is just that, a
celebration of life.
Speaker 6 (26:28):
So and all the invitations and stuff had already went
out for his party for that day, so they wanted
to let the people that were invited to his party
originally come to the grave site and literally celebrate in
part and do like a little party for him.
Speaker 2 (26:45):
And I know, in the middle of some of my
grief over people having passed, I've had my moments of laughter,
giggles and otherwise, And it seems to be some way
for solace or to you know, alleviate some of that
paid and grief that's going on in your heart to
give you a moment of positivity. And it is not
a bad thing by any means. So I wanted to
(27:08):
talk about Darley Rutier because I am more interested in
her husband now than I thought I ever could be too.
Speaker 4 (27:15):
WHOA, Okay, I'm glad you said that.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
So she's basically sentenced to death for the murder of
one son and has not actually been to trial for
the second son at this point, which really makes no sense. Basically,
they she claimed to have fallen asleep on the couch
and the kids had done a sleepover with her downstairs.
Her husband and the youngest child were upstairs. This all
(27:39):
really kind of sounds really familiar to some of the
cases that we've talked about where others were in the
house and claim to have not heard a thing while
somebody was being murdered. So we know that this is
possible because it's happened more than once throughout our presentation.
I'm just a little confused on her injuries, because nowhere
(27:59):
could I find that she said she engaged this particular
intruder or fought with him. So I'm a little discombobulated
on that, but hopefully you can enlighten me, because, like
I said, I haven't had a lot of time. They
are appealing again and they're running DNA tests since in
twenty eighteen, I did not find any information in regards
to the completion of these tests or what they surmised.
(28:20):
We know that they're wondo.
Speaker 4 (28:22):
It and how that just blows me.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
We're solving crimes like DeAngelo and you know, as of
recently some more based on DNA and it's taking how
long since twenty eighteen to get these DNA tests done.
Speaker 4 (28:36):
This is a little.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
Disgusting as far as I'm concerned. This test should have
been ran immediately. If this woman is innocent, she doesn't
belong spending another day in prison, just like Peter Wilson. Now,
from what I can grab from the scene is that
they indicated there was a thumbprint on an end table
that did not match any of the family members. However,
one forensic technician had indicated that he could not exclude
(29:06):
the ring finger of Darlee as being the print that
was there. Now, not being able to rule somebody out
is different than being able to make an identification, and
this kind of lousy forensic testifying that we saw in
Peter Wilson case is really what I'm reading has gone
down in this particular case as well. So basically, on
(29:28):
June sixth of nineteen sixty six, she goes to sleep
at two thirty one in the morning, she's dialing nine
to one one. She happens to be the one that
calls the police. I don't know if I could literally
commit a crime such as that and then turn around
and call the police. But some of the evidence that's
is really disturbing me, as this sock with blood on
it that is a match to the blood from the
family that was found seventy five yards outside of the house,
(29:50):
and it is indicated there's no possible way for her
to have left the scene of the crime while on
the phone with the impending death of the second son,
who purported only would have lasted eight minutes bleeding out
in the manner in which he was stabbed, and she
was on the phone with nine to one one for
six of those minutes, so that would have left her
two minutes to literally jog two hundred and twenty five
(30:12):
feet down the road, drop a soft drog back two
hundred and twenty five feet and then they claimed she
cleaned herself up at the kitchen sink.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
Did she really?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
I'm really trying, I'm trying to suck all this down,
but I'm having a hard time.
Speaker 6 (30:26):
What did you look at the photos of the sink,
It clearly does not look like she was cleaning up.
It clearly looks like she was in there, like trying
to get away or trying to get some towels for
the boys to cover their wounds, because apparently she had
some dish rags in there and that's what she would
win in there for. And then if you look at
(30:47):
the same photo of the sink, it literally looks like
she was searching for something. So it's clear go here, Yeah,
she was going over there to get some dish towels
to cover up the wounds and try to, you know,
do whatever she can for the boys while.
Speaker 5 (31:05):
Weapon.
Speaker 4 (31:06):
Yeah, so let me oh, let me oh, where am
I going?
Speaker 5 (31:10):
All right?
Speaker 2 (31:11):
So evidently this is a butcher knife, or this is
a knife from the butcher bocket. Looks like a bread
knife basically to me that was used for this the
blood And you can see this schematic up over here
that is describing the blood from red is supposed to
be damon, so that is here, and we have blood
(31:31):
over here, Darlee, we have blood pretty much all over
the place. I mean, here's the kitchen, here's the utility room.
But she did indication she felt that the intruder had
left out the utility room and that this her blood
being found here probably would be explainable if she had
(31:51):
chased after this individual and then DeVaughn in Yellow was
literally kind of just isolated to this one spot. So
that would almost indicate if this blood of this individual
is being tracked all over the place, is either being
tracked by the assailant or literally is being ran around
the entire house. And her blood is pretty much everywhere,
(32:14):
back and forth. But as you said, if she's going
to the kitchen and grabbing, you know, towels and making
her way back over to the boys, that would explain
how her blood then ends up in these locations as well.
It is a horrendous crime scene. I mean, look at
this house. Though it's a very affluent. Go ahead, Nolan.
Speaker 3 (32:32):
A couple of questions, was the knife from inside the
house was her?
Speaker 5 (32:36):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (32:37):
Okay? And where was the father?
Speaker 2 (32:40):
And all this upstairs supposedly asleep with the infant not
woke into anything until his wife screams for him.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
At the end, yep with there was a third child,
then a younger child, yes, a seven month old that
was upstairs with him. Apparently he was being.
Speaker 2 (33:02):
Evidently she had awoken, I think, to hearing one of
the children's scream, but that doesn't tell me when she
was stabbed versus them. Again, we were not getting really
kind of a clear story of what transpired.
Speaker 5 (33:15):
She made it.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
So she woke up to a scream, found both of
them stabbed, and I would assume at that point that
she was also injured herself or stabbed.
Speaker 6 (33:23):
Yeah, why when she woke up, she was already stabbed.
So a lot of people think, including her stepsister who
is on her side and trying to get her out
because of this, because they don't think obviously she did it.
They think that she was in some type of psychosis, uh,
(33:46):
maybe passed out and she remember And so the bits
and pieces that she does remember that she has reported
it doesn't make sense because it's different pieces. Because as
we know, our brain is is it actually is used
as a defense mechanism in our brains to protect us
from certain things. And I know it sounds crazy, but
(34:07):
that's literally how the brain works. So they could possibly
cause some type of psychosis where it's trying to protect you.
Speaker 5 (34:15):
From things that it doesn't want you to remember. If
that makes sense, you can look it up.
Speaker 6 (34:21):
I don't know if you are familiar with that, but
it is definitely a sign. It is definitely a scientific
thing that can just has captain in many cases.
Speaker 2 (34:30):
So watching her, I was just watching I was just
watching a reality show not too long ago, in which
case one of the individuals had been woken up by
their significant other and of course he went to bed
kind of inebriated. So if she's on any type of
drugs for postpartum depression or anything else that could have
inebriated her to a certain degree, he gets woken up
(34:51):
and literally for the first five to six minutes, he
is so out there. He asked the same question seven times,
like his brain could not click and come and like
rationalize what was occurring at that very moment. So for
her to have woken up in that state, but would
also somebody wake up after being stabbed, She says she
(35:12):
was woken up by the screen of the sun versus
you know, would you wake up to your body being
slashed and stabbed like?
Speaker 7 (35:21):
That?
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Was the dad of her suspect.
Speaker 2 (35:25):
No, evidently, which is very interesting. So he evidently when
they met, was a seventeen year old assistant manager at
some joint that eventually grew really fast into great degrees
of wealth. You can see this house here, it's a
gorgeous house. The neighborhood absolutely beautiful. The amount of jewelry
she's got sitting just in one location, I'm sure doesn't
(35:46):
encompass every single piece she owns, but you can see
there's a lot of gold sitting on that counter.
Speaker 4 (35:53):
Very nice.
Speaker 5 (35:53):
Actually, he made his he was his self made.
Speaker 6 (35:59):
I guess I don't know how much he would make
it made, but he was a self made what do
you call it, uh.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
Entrepreneurs, Yeah, entrepreneur.
Speaker 5 (36:09):
And they made the computer boards what they called.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Ope, you were you were saying that motherboards?
Speaker 6 (36:17):
Yes, they yes, he created those, that's what they created
for in his business.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
That's extremely and then puts it right up there in
the realm of if somebody wants that business, they they.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
Are able to take it.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Some of the theories and now look, I see this,
you know, crime scene again with all this blood everywhere.
And one of the theories was that he had or
that she They were in financial straits and owed a
lot of money, now to whom we don't know, one
could suspect to the all because that seems to be
who you borrowed money from those days, and and and
(36:53):
the taking of children or family members in order to
instill some type of message is something we've definitely seen
them do.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
But the DA.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Actually suspected that this was a financial motivation. She was
trying to alleviate herself of expenses of these children. But
why kill the two older ones? They're much cheaper than
the younger one, and they only had life insurance policies
of ten thousand apiece, which was only going to be
enough to literally actually bury them. Turns out the husband
(37:22):
had a life insurance policy of eight hundred thousand, So
why not kill the husband instead of the kids?
Speaker 3 (37:28):
That's yeah, that seems like an odd motive.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
Yeah, very odd motive. It doesn't make sense, but that's
what they wanted to claim. So basically going through this
information and putting so fingerprint expert Pat Wurthheim would later
testify before in a Pierce Court that he could not
rule out Darley Rutier's right ring finger as the source
of the print. But nobody can explain this bloody sock
(37:54):
seventy five yards from the house. I did read additional
information that indicated that the DA sounds to me like
another Peter Wilson case where they, you know, withheld information,
they did limited forensics, then they testified badly to those
forensics in order to secure a conviction. I've read an
article that now says one of the jurors who had
(38:16):
convicted her of being the culprit has now stated that
them that them themselves and other jurors have indicated that
they decided this case wrongly and that it couldn't have
been her that killed them.
Speaker 4 (38:29):
I just look at her, let's go back.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
I just look at her wounds and wonder how anybody
could inflict this type of pain to themselves.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
She is bruised all over her hands, Yeah, that's understand.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
Cut marks, yeah, I mean cut marks up and down
her arms. She's got slash marks across her neck and
how I'm trying to imagine how she would have done
this one that trailed all the way down her should
I would have thought if this was so excruciating once
you cut this one initial part, you wouldn't have continued on, yeah, downward.
(39:09):
And this actual gap right here makes me wonder if
she wasn't in a laying down position where the shoulder
was then tucked more closely to her opposite side of
her neck that she was cut on.
Speaker 4 (39:21):
And then that's how that.
Speaker 2 (39:23):
Skip in that cut actually appeared, is because her shoulder
was folding in, because she was truly laying down sleeping.
Speaker 7 (39:30):
Yeah, if the next one than the other one, that
would seem to be a skip and then just the
tip of knife caught the shoulder.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Right and yeah, And of course they said something like
two millimeters away from actually cutting her jugular, so she
would would have died, and maybe the culprit did think
that he successfully cut her jugular. Now, there's been some
recent information in which the ex husband he believes her
(39:59):
innocence and had the leader innocence. They divorced in twenty eleven,
but new information is revealed that he had wanted to
do an insurance scam and was looking around for individuals
to rob the house steal his property that he could
then turn around and reclaim from the burglars once it
had occurred, and that this was or may have been
(40:21):
the attempt to do so. There's talks about infidelity, there's
talks about financial ruins, there's talks about a bad marriage.
But the bottom line is is that he eventually admitted
to the fact that he was, if not joking about it.
He says he never acted on it, he never actually
paid anybody to do it, but that he was talking
with other individuals, including Darley's step dad or something like
(40:44):
that in regards to perpetrating this burglary or this robbery
as an insurance scam to get caught up. And Nolan,
what's crazy as all he owed was twenty two thousand dollars.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
That's nothing.
Speaker 4 (40:55):
Nothing.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
And here's the deal. This guy he was super young, right,
I mean he made his money agun. Yeah, and they
needed to.
Speaker 7 (41:06):
Look at him a lot closer, all his dealings and
whatnot before they prosecuted. I think they jump a gun.
I'm not saying, and I'm not you know, but I'm
saying there's a lot of loose ends, shall we say,
to just jump like to rush to judgment.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Right, Yeah, So I looked up who is Darren Rudier.
Darren and Darley Rudier had met at a restaurant in Lubbock, Texas.
You guys, Lubbock is where Jack is from, of all
the places in that gigantic state, Lubbock, Texas on the
afternoon of Mother's Day in May of nineteen eighty five,
after the latter's mother had set up a meeting between
(41:47):
them working at the same eatery where Darren, at just seventeen,
proved to be an ambitious assistant manager. She knew that
he'd be a good match for her fifteen year old daughter,
so in nineteen eighty five, they waited till nineteen eighty
eight to get married until she turned eighteen, so he's
literally twenty years old when they get married in nineteen
(42:07):
eighty eight. They had their first date that same evening,
fell in love became inseparable. In fact, they only waited
till August of nineteen eighty eight to get married due
to their age. And it says and he was an
entrepreneur since he was thirteen years of age, and Darren
was doing very well at the time as an assistant manager. Okay, okay, yeah, well,
(42:33):
so then that means that I then map out the
why again does Jack keep these phone bills? If Jack
was notorious for keeping all his receipts, I wouldn't be
questioning it. But like my dad, who kept everything, he
had every bill and every receipt all the way back
to the Dawn's end of time, he had kept throughout
his entire life, and I had to discard it when.
Speaker 4 (42:55):
He passed here.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
With Jack, he only keeps certain things, and of course
these phone billspen to be two of the things he kept.
I thought the Boulder, Colorado stuff was going to relate
more to what he was doing with John Benney Ramsay,
but then it turns out to be this whole secret
banking system that's going on. So I then map quest
where the Rutier's crime occurred in relation to Big Springs
(43:21):
and Port Arthur, and it looks like both of these
areas are about as far away from the Rudiers crime
scene as the newspapers that ran are from Jack's house
about four hours and fifty two minutes. Literally, this one's
four hours and fifty three from Rolette, Texas to Port Arthur.
I don't know if that makes a succinct triangle or
(43:43):
what that's going on.
Speaker 4 (43:44):
Here, but then Big Springs to.
Speaker 2 (43:48):
Rolette, Texas is four hours and forty four minutes, so
roughly about the same timeframe as it is from Jack's
house to Port Arthur. All right, anybody have anything to
add to that, anything you want to talk about, lindsay
on that case, not on that case personally.
Speaker 7 (44:08):
But I just finished the I forty five docuseries on Netflix.
It's crazy on how many murders in Texas that people
got away with. I think several of those murders they
end on three different people, and rightly so, but there's way.
Speaker 3 (44:26):
More that are unsolved that we're solved.
Speaker 7 (44:29):
Correct And Jack that's his stomping ground too, so and
I don't know how close this was I forty five,
but it's Texas still, it's is there one.
Speaker 4 (44:40):
Of the guys.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
Yeah, if you want to get away with the murderer,
do it here.
Speaker 2 (44:44):
Do it in Texas? Clearly, do it in Texas. Why
are range is hundreds of thousands of millions of miles, the.
Speaker 7 (44:51):
Attitude of the of the of the law enforcement, and
the reluctance to pursue. And then when finally, when Arley
was a younger girl from a good family, then they
pursue it.
Speaker 4 (45:05):
Exactly.
Speaker 3 (45:06):
It's like a woman who worked in a bar, or
this is that a single bomb? Blah blah blah. They oh,
they brought it on themselves. This was the attitude of
the cops.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
Exactly.
Speaker 7 (45:18):
It's just, you know, you don't probably one life more
than the other. Your duty is to investigate a homicide.
Speaker 2 (45:24):
Well, and here's the thing that's the ad homin an argument.
When you can't do anything about with evidence or facts,
you then beat up on the character of the person. Right, Yeah,
you have to be little down because you're doing a
lousy job and you can't figure it out.
Speaker 4 (45:38):
So now you've got to make it sound as though.
Speaker 7 (45:41):
Or there's complicity with law enforcement, or maybe some of
the go over its affiliated with law enforcement. We see
Dan Angelo Williams law enforcement, and oftentimes people are either
affiliated or or are actual law enforcement, and it's weight
or or their security guards, their uniformed jack security are
(46:01):
a lot of different Thane Caesar.
Speaker 3 (46:03):
Was a security right.
Speaker 7 (46:05):
A lot of times uniformed people get away with more
shit than someone that's in playing.
Speaker 2 (46:10):
Clothes exactly, and we know that Suspicious too talked about
uniforms that were either security guards or cop like which
made the person almost trustable for the individuals who were
then victimized by that that particular individualized.
Speaker 7 (46:27):
And then when they're fleeing crime scenes or whatnot, they're
not thought of.
Speaker 4 (46:31):
As suspects exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (46:35):
Well, So climbing back into Jack, because I really thought
we were going to hit John in a Ramsey this week,
but it turns out we are. We had to push
that forward, and I'm not going to be upset by
that by any means, because I really did lose myself
down a rabbit hole and that was some great research, Lindsey.
I can't wait to see what we have in store
for John ben a Ramsey. But back to Jack. At
this point, we have a couple minutes left. We are
(46:56):
seeing I did not know AARP was around since nineteen
ninety six, did anybody else?
Speaker 4 (47:01):
I really that they were a long term I had
no clue.
Speaker 2 (47:05):
So it's funny to see some of the stuff you
aren't even realizing you know that has been around as
an insurance. So every time I see anything on insurance,
I automatically.
Speaker 4 (47:15):
Go to unions. I go to mob paid.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
Protection like I just and these insurance companies were the
ones that would like to give loans, right, I mean,
that's what they were doing back in these days.
Speaker 3 (47:29):
I was a member of aar Pizza n eight.
Speaker 6 (47:34):
But you are I'm old, and we have and we
have John Walsh doing ads for them too in the
in the two thousands.
Speaker 4 (47:43):
Oh really, go figure.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
Yeah, I have so many thoughts about insurance companies, it's unreal.
Uh So, Anyways, on October sixteenth of nineteen ninety six,
AARP forwarded mail from the ten forty seven PO box,
which I believe was Jack or Nora's I'm sorry Flova's
residence to the Nelda Street address, which is in sagein Texas.
Billion statements for landlines confirmed Nelda Street through at least
(48:09):
December of nineteen ninety six, and we see that on
November sixth of nineteen ninety six, Flova gives power of
attorney to Jack in Texas, so we know that he
is back in Texas at this point in time for
who knows how long I believe, at least until his
mother passes, which brings us to November eleventh, nineteen ninety six,
when Jack so he gets power of attorney of his
(48:32):
mother on November sixth, and on November eleventh, he takes
the entire family to California. That I guess also leads
me money, if you know what, possibly, but that leads
that leads me to believe once again that yes, in fact,
Flova is in a care home at this point. So
(48:53):
we see these are entries out of Nora's diary and
it is nineteen ninety six. Stress begins and unfortunately we're
down to about our last forty seconds here and we're
going to have to do our sign off. So we're
going to be getting into some of the heart of
the most interesting parts of nineteen ninety six, and that
is Christmas of nineteen ninety six, where Jack was and
what was going on. I want to thank you again
(49:15):
so much, Lindsay for all your research and Nolan for
being here. Is there anything you guys would like to
say before we head out.
Speaker 5 (49:24):
For the next one.
Speaker 2 (49:25):
All right, everybody, have a wonderful weekend and we'll see
you all next Friday.
Speaker 4 (49:29):
Pepe, thanks
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