July 4, 2025 • 50 mins
Starting this week with a letter from the Zodiac Killer after a great deal of silence. Jack has been convicted of a crime, placed on probation, and gone through a divorce that I am sure has stifled his abilities to commit crimes. Texas has seen an uprise in unsolved murders in an area near the League City Field of Deaths. It boggles me that Nora would introduce this Jack into her children’s lives. More communications looked at by the FBI, and Harriette Sucher will give us her solves on them.
Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
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Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac is broadcast live Fridays at 10AM PT on K4HD Radio - Hollywood Talk Radio (www.k4hd.com) part of Talk 4 Radio (www.talk4radio.com) on the Talk 4 Media Network (www.talk4media.com). Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac TV Show is viewed on Talk 4 TV (www.talk4tv.com).
Hit the Road Jack: Finding the Zodiac Podcast is also available on Talk 4 Media (www.talk4media.com), Talk 4 Podcasting (www.talk4podcasting.com), iHeartRadio, Amazon Music, Pandora, Spotify, Audible, and over 100 other podcast outlets.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/hit-the-road-jack-finding-the-zodiac--5297837/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You should seek the services.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Good morning, True Seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
I'd like to welcome to the show today, Harriet Souche.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Good morning, and Pappy Forth.
Speaker 5 (01:07):
Happy fo yes exactly.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Happy fourth of July to everybody and all the men
and women out there that ensure our freedoms and our liberties.
We appreciate and thank you so much. I had an
interesting actual YouTube comment that popped up, so I thought
that it was worth at least addressing at the beginning here.
I'm going to go ahead and flip over to the
(01:31):
presentation and kind of just give you a brief on
my pictures here. So this first picture in the center
with this great, big, huge flag that's being dawned by
a crane over the top of the road was when
I first started this particular podcast. So it was the
first fourth of July and I had gone to Alturas
(01:53):
for a family reunion and I just thought, what an
amazing picture that this would make with the flag hanging
over the top off of the road.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
And of course this one to the right here was
one that I actually took because I took a different
I went I.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I went three ninety five out of Reno instead of
I five, so I got to see this one on
I five and then once I arrived in Alturas in
an opposite manner, I was able to capture this picture
of a flag again, obviously celebrating the fourth of July season.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
So I love your hat. I love your outfit. You're
so festive.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Yeah, before I take the head off the showing you
of the lights, but you know, and then it's going
to mess up my hair.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
A don't do that.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
I think it looks adorable, all right. So this YouTuber
Pepper state nine five five and I actually answered a
few of the questions on the YouTube channel, but told
them that I was going to be addressing the majority
of this here on the show today. So he says,
why are we trying to tie Jack to the Lipstick
(03:03):
killings and the text Arcana Phantom murders. This kind of
makes me think that he's in the beginning stages. But
if he's in the beginning stages watching these podcasts, then
I think that we were fairly clear on these particular
murder spreeze what it was that we volte connected Jack.
So I'm not sure where he's at or why this
(03:23):
question is coming up at this point in time, But
he says, the survivors of Texarcana Phantom on two twenty two,
nineteen forty six, the male victim described attacker as tanned,
white male. The female victim described attacker as light skinned
black male. Now, the female, who unfortunately had more contact
with the killer due to be in sexually assaulted, would
(03:45):
be assumed to be able to provide a better description.
But my point is, why is everyone always attempting to
put murders like the Texarcana Lipstick killings to the Zodiac.
The Zodiac committed four known crimes in the San Francisco
area and there were no sexual assaults. You know that
former Detective Hodel says his father was the Zodiac and
also the person responsible for the black.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
Dahlia and a bunch of other murders.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Why is it so difficult for people to understand that
there are always multiple serial killers loose in the US
at the same time, not to mention a bunch of
other people who commit murders in a one off type
situation where opportunity and desire are just in charge. How
tall was Jack? How do we confirm he was in
Chicago at the time and place of the lipstick murders
(04:30):
or Intexarcana at the time and place of the phantom murders.
The only reason we know Samuel Little killed all over
the place was because he said he did. I think
these were some really great questions, So you want to
take a stab at that area?
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Well? Number one. To our surprise, the anagram was for
the lipstick killing, saying, my name is Jack darn is
Lain JBR. I see more of them, You'll see more
of me. And we all felt kind of, you know,
like hitting our heads. I said, is this how simple
it can be if you just anagramm it?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Then technically he's kind of right about the George Hodell thing,
because I've seen George Hodell's name brought up in the
early ones and from my view, George Hodell was the
older guy training the younger crew. But Jack is definitely
associated with so many of these and it has everything
(05:27):
to do with the Intel community and being a hired
gun and slaying some people. And he's even admitting that
he's killed people. So that's my that's my three cents
right there.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Well, my explanation to him was because the handwriting was
a match. We know that I took this particular examination
to the FBI and showed them how the handwriting on
the wall in the Francis Brown.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
I believe it was.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Yes if we or whatever yet, but it was consistent.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Was consistent with Jack's handwriting. Their response, Hopkins or agent Hopkins,
indicated that I couldn't place Jack in Chicago, Illinois simply
because the handwriting matched. And of course I thought to myself,
then what am I doing? If I can't make an
identification of handwriting?
Speaker 5 (06:22):
Am I in the wrong business? Do I have?
Speaker 4 (06:24):
You know?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Is there any science basically to handwriting? If we could
make such a mistake. Now, three weeks later, Dennis and
I on the phone with Jack's aunt. She indicates that
Flova sold the farm, the family farm in Texas, in
nineteen forty four and moved to Chicago, Illinois. That aside
from the fact that we have pictures in his Jack
(06:48):
and his Navy uniform in the Chicago, Illinois area, we
also have him in front of the Northern Public Power
Company of Illinois. We had so several key indicators that
showed that he had proximity during this timeframe. And of
course we know that he always went home to Mom,
so he's going to be back and forth wherever she's at.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
And Chicago is no different than Texas for Jack.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
He will hop on the road in one of his
fits in and just drive for as long as he can.
Probably I bet he pulled off twenty eight hours like
it was nobody's business. And Dennis even indicated he did
this a lot right.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Well, yes, and I can just quickly say something when
my father was out to see a lot and he
was a Navy reserve, Yeah, he drive thirty hours, no problem.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
So it's done okay, exactly, And everybody has to has
to also realize that we did map out Jack's happenstances.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
Good morning, Nolan, Good morning, Good morning Mirror, Happy fourth
of July.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yes, we're just covering a YouTuber's comment at this point
in regards to hying Jack to the Texarcana phantom murders
and the lipstick killings. So I also wanted everybody to
realize is that the murders of these gals and Susan
Dagnan happened on the outs or on times when Jack
was not in service with the military.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
So there it's.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Very probable that he had the opportunity, and we know
that he had the proximity. So as far as the
Texarcana phantom murders, there were some other indicators there that
kind of put things together. One of them was the
wearing of the mask, which is something that we saw in.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
The Lake bary Essa murders. There was the.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Fact that it was basically happening around another army base
read I think it was Red Arsenal. Trying to remember,
I know, I'm so far out of nineteen forty six,
I would literally have to get it's something or depot.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
I don't know, I have to go back and look.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
But these murders of these individuals and these young couples
occurred in and around within minutes of an army base.
So there was a few things that we put together
I think also that the gun that was used in
the tax ar Can of Phantom murders was said to
be a particular type. Jack had gotten himself in some
trouble at one point and had his gun confiscated, and
(09:18):
Dennis had indicated that Jack had went to the local
judge and asked for the judge to get him that
gun back because he's afraid that that gun could be
tied to murders such as Texarcana phantom or even possibly
the Florida murder which was on Darnia Beach. I believe,
so there was something. We're just saying that that Jack
(09:39):
is in this area.
Speaker 5 (09:40):
Jack is a.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Bootlegger at the time the text ar Can of phantom
murders occur. Here's lots of time on his hand if
he's not running liquor back and forth.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
So they.
Speaker 5 (09:54):
Sorry, no, that's okay, that's okay.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
I'm just wanted to say really quick, if they're doing
things like that as a spy, then they're getting the
goods of other people. Let's say he's running some laquer
to the governor's nephew, right right right. It's it's diabolical,
but it's the way it happens well.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
And also, as you had mentioned in the Lipstick Killings,
that particular message that was on the wall was rewritten
several times in lipsticks. So if you have a clear
image of this particular writing on the wall, you'll see
that the killer starts to write, then a rasis starts
to write, then a rasis, and probably an attempt to
actually conceal his handwriting, or at least he thinks he's
(10:39):
manipulating his handwriting so that it doesn't come back to him.
But that anagram done by Lauren's swearing him actually turned
out to yield the fact that it had Jack Terrence's
name in it, which is why Lauren's swearing them even
contacted me in the first place, because my suspect was
the only name that came out of this message with
an a complete message about having killed Francis Brown.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
And having committed these murders.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
And then we have to crossover between the Black Dahlia
and the Lipstick Killings, which is that Susan Dagnan was dumped.
Her body parts were dumped, so mind you, her body
has been bisected and and she has been dumped down
Hollywood Bullvlo Hollywood Boulevard. And then Black Dahlia is dumped
(11:26):
near Dagnan Boulevard in Hollywood.
Speaker 5 (11:28):
She's also been bicect It's a.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Version of laying out code.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
She's you know, and just now, didn't you think, Harriet
that the Sauls had said something to the effect that
Hodell's father had been part of that bisection of Black Doahia.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
I believe I have one that we may have covered,
but you know, we'd have to go back and look,
because I've got stacks of page I saved all my work.
I'm like, but I believe there was a chin where
and that's how come William harens Uh couldn't take it
and started crying and took off and then they caught him.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
So, oh, gotcha. He was part of the group as well.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Yeah, well yeah, but he he wasn't strong enough to
handle and who really would be strong enough being a
butcher child with their leg over here? You know, so
we would be ghost because people might be eating right now.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
Yeah, yes, did Jack Jack.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Jack was an avid hunter. He bisected animals all the time.
The pictures of him actively doing this stuff. So now,
as far as the.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Series that Ray was involved.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
The artist, yes.
Speaker 5 (12:51):
Or somebody minded man Ray's.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
I've seen his name in there.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
Sorry, yeah, yeah, no, we we have.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
So as far as the description is concerned, it's you know,
I think that somebody's being traumatized late at night. I'm
not sure what it was that this person saw. The
male sees one thing, the woman sees another thing. But
what I do know with the Atlanta, Georgia child killers
case is that one of the victims called and said
(13:19):
she was with a nice white man.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
However, they wanted to charge a blackmail for this.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
So it's kind of back and forth as to what
the truth is behind, you know, who these suspects truly
are and what the media has presented. And everybody has
to remember that any information out there that we can
glean is from the media, and we're saying that there's
a heavy involvement in the media, so distorting me things
and yeah, and creating the narrative for what it is
(13:49):
that they want us to believe has been easily done.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
Over the years.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
We've seen stuff taken down, we've seen stuff added, we've
seen new stuff come up that nobody's ever heard of before,
and each and every time the story just gets blown
up to another degree where people are just completely confused,
which is why I do the podcast, not only to
out the fake suspects or the false people who are
trying to, you know, push their narrative, but also to
say that Jack should be looked at it for these things.
(14:18):
Let's see, Yes, we know about that, So why is
it okay? So he says, why is it so difficult
for people to understand that there are always multiple serial
killers loose in the US at the same time. This
isn't the same time, Buddy text Art, Canna Lipsticks, Zodiac,
Black DOLLI.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
All of these.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Happened in different eras, and all of them contain handwriting.
And what I wanted to say is that the Zodiac
didn't wake up one day try to kill you know,
seven people, eleven months, write hundreds of communications, only to
fall off the face of the earth, having not done
it before this and never having done it again.
Speaker 5 (14:52):
I just simply don't buy that.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
But I do find that this particular YouTuber is their
comment is perfect for this episode because we're going to
to get into to see he says that I don't
know who I don't know who Samuel Little is, but
it says he killed all over the place because he
was because he said he did. Well, we're about to
see today in some of the communications that the zodiac
(15:16):
indicates that he's killed more than one hundred people over
California and Nevada. So I say, let's move on into
it now. I know that I'm not sure how far
we got into these particular murders, but I'm going to
read them off anyways, just in case. On January fourteenth
and nineteen eighty six, we have seventeen year old Regina Sakamoto.
Of course, this is another Honolulu murder, and again I
(15:39):
did not feel heavily that this was Jack, but anything
that was unsolved I was literally thrown into this presentation
in case it could be so. Over the next three months,
Denise Hughes, Louis Maderos, and Linda Pesky are also killed.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
I believe in Honolulu.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
January nineteen eighty six, sixty eight year old and Anna
Carom is a Frankfurt neighborhood of Philip, Philadelphia.
Speaker 5 (16:01):
She stabbed to death in her apartment.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Like the first victim, she is nude from the waist
down with her shirt pushed up to exposure chest. Over
the next four years, the Frankfort slasher would claim seven
more lives. I need to do research on this because
I'm not sure who those seven are. Some of the
victims were seen with a middle aged white male before
their deaths. So middle aged, that's you know pretty much, Jack, you.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Know it is?
Speaker 5 (16:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
So Carol Dowd was a nineteen ninety victim found behind
a fish market in nineteen ninety and Leonard Christopher was convicted.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
Of her death.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
However, it is believed that he is innocent since he
was a black male and did not match the description
of the suspect and other crimes, and another crime was
committed while he was incarcerated, instilling the notion that he
was not the Frankfort slasher. So here we have another twist.
We have a black mail that's being convicted for a
crime when the witnesses saw white mail. So you tell me, yeah,
(16:58):
there's always an issue here. So we had some communications
come in March seventh, nineteen eighty six. It was postmarked
in Los Angeles. The name was redacted, but it went
to Ambler Tours at ten ten Second Avenue, Sweet nineteen hundred,
San Diego, California, nine.
Speaker 5 (17:16):
Two one zero one.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
The FBI foil files only indicated high then they redacted
the name we are, so this premise of a WE
faction once again. And a second one was mailed on
March twelfth, nineteen eighty six, postmarked from Los Angeles as well.
Name was redacted again to Ambler Tours. So with these
two communications, I haven't had the opportunity to actually see
(17:40):
I just know that the FBI took a look at
these communications believing that there was a potential for them
being a communication from the Zodiac Killer, which kind of
makes some of the other communications we're going to talk
about make sense because it's like he's back in action again.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
So he's back to Can I say one thing that
stands out to me is the one that's redacted and
then says Ambler Jools, we've done assault on this, but
I mean, we've done a show. But he's saying the
reason why he had to go after the kids, Uh,
(18:19):
Fara Day and Jensen was because Fara Day's father bought uh.
But the rambler that belonged to the pain and Uh
that I mean there's a link there and somebody. Yeah,
so that was the rambler was the rambler was the
(18:40):
was the reason for the killings. But anyway, So you
got something there. Maybe maybe he's still trying to catch
up on the past, but anyways, that was something that
stood up to me, especially when we got san Diego
there too.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
What were you saying, Nolan.
Speaker 6 (18:59):
Yeah, Ruth day Uhna lived with her and yeah, she
put her up and she was a part of uh well,
she was heavily connected. Her family was with c I,
a FBI, that type of thing.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Oh, even again they weren't linking her as officially.
Speaker 6 (19:25):
Is that she's the one that recommended that Lee Harvey
applied for the job of the school but depository. So
a lot of theories, theories say that he was she
injected herself into their lives for the purpose of helping.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Manipulate gotcha, and so she owned the rambler that you
then believed Faaraday's father purchase.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah, And I don't know which that was a solve
in in which communication believe.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
I think it's the fair Field letters very early as
like nineteen seventy one, seventy two, So it's early stuff
that I did. And I was like shocked to find
out that that's but he felt very guilty for killing
those kids. He's saying his conscience was coming up as
the gun went down.
Speaker 6 (20:16):
On them, and that's the Lake German Road once. Yes, yeah, okay, all.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Right, Well, in March nineteenth to nineteen eighty six, Nor
receives a nurse assistant certificate and it's mailed to the
Kirby Street address, so we know that she is currently
in Roseville, California, which is literally about ten minutes.
Speaker 5 (20:35):
That way from me. On March.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
March thirtieth, nineteen eighty six. Easter is generally spent in Texas,
with Texas with Flova, Jack's mother, but I don't have
anything for Jack during this time. However, the location and
nature of the next crime should be considered due to
who Jack was and the propensity to visit his mother
every single Easter pretty much that I can tell. So
this just sits means I maybe didn't have an actual
(21:02):
picture of him there for Easter, but it doesn't mean that.
It doesn't that he didn't visit her. On April of
nineteen eighty six, we have a headless woman recovered from
a garage a garbage bag in State Park in Galveston.
Body remains unidentified at this point. Now I know that
we've had skulls so this always flashes me back. You know,
(21:23):
is this the body of Donna Lass? You know, we
found her skull, but we didn't find her remains. And
now there are remains that are headless found back in
Texas and are still unidentified. So I'm assuming that I
need to I guess there was also a Scholl found
in Massachusetts in a lake or near a lake, should
(21:46):
I say, And I thought maybe that was a good.
Speaker 5 (21:49):
Cross connection too for trying to put figure.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Out whether or not those remains go to that Scholl
so headless, which is consistent with the bisection of Dagen
and Elizabeth Short and the two girls in the Arizona
area that occurs in nineteen ninety two to nineteen ninety three,
while Jack is in Arizona. The I forty five killings
in California killings where partial remains one victim was found
in the grave with another or partial remains found in
(22:13):
one location where the rest of the remains were found
twenty miles or more away. So separating the body parts
is definitely a type of mo that has happened to
end some of these crimes breed some of the.
Speaker 6 (22:27):
Hy Bob size or Harriet at least that the Donaldas's
body parts were somewhere in uh near, They're like.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
No, yeah, but you know what, I got quite a
few songs where he is pleading, you know, with through
somebody else to get to Reagan. But he's pleading for
the boat because he wasn't supposed to kill those Catholics,
blah blah blah. But it stops after a while. So
it's almost as if and now you're seeing that if
(22:55):
they claim they found somebody and parts and everything, you know,
I'd like to know where do they get Are they
still there? Did they get buried? Because I think I
think they actually found them, and the Pope wanted the
Catholics that were killed to be buried under the juniper
tree on a hill like Mount Hocm where there's tons
(23:17):
of juniper trees there.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
So well, and I think is where they did find
actual body parts exactly. They just didn't have the they well,
the FBI believed it was too intrusive to test every
single family member of the victims.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
You determine who those remains went back to.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
But if they could test that school found in nineteen
eighty seventy of Donna lasses in twenty twenty four, then
they could certainly test these bones that they found on
the jax Ol property.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
See if they match. But I'm just going that out
there because I.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Like or the California series.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Alcome is up near Somerset, up near plac Oh yeah,
California outside.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
Okay, Yeah, it's just below.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
It's basically, I think within an hour of South Lake Tahoe.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
It's not that far away. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Wow, on Sunday, I'm my way up there.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
Oh there you go, have some fun.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Some of the eyewitness accounts for the I forty five
killings was a person dressed in authentic police or security
guard type uniform. And Jack so happens to be a
security guard at this point. And I know that we
mentioned that before, but it came back up, so I
figured it was.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
Good to throw it out there. Now we have this new.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Letter that came about, and I now believe that it
likely I used to I wasn't sure if it was
May or March that this was mailed, but it's now
starting to look like if it's consistent with the two
murders that we're going to talk about here, that it
is consistent with May of nineteen eighty six. And to
give you some background on this letter. Dennis had brought
it to me and indicated that this was a Zodiac letter.
(25:00):
Now I want everybody to take notice that it says
minus one hundred plus and it says the body count
is growing now one hundred plus all over the state
of California and Nevada. So I'm now not going to
take this as a minus one hundred plus. As much
as every time the Zodiac made the symbol, he always
made the hyphen and then he indicated a number for him,
(25:21):
and he indicated a zero four SFPD as if they'd
not caught anybody for these crimes, this one says one
hundred plus, which.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Does a hyphen and not a minus sign.
Speaker 6 (25:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Yeah, And because he says it in the letter, he says,
this is the Zodiac speaking.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
I am still out here in Crackproof.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
And now Crackproof runs in tandem with the herb Cane letters,
the one that Tashi was accused of forging, and then
another one we're going to talk about here shortly, but
it says I want you to know about my latest
slaves that I have collected about two weeks ago up
by Sacramento, California. I will give you a clue to
help you with the mystery. They were killed by a freeway.
(26:04):
The blue minis almost caught me. The body count is
growing now, one hundred plus all over the state of California, Nevada,
SFPD zero Zodiac one hundred plus.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
Now.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
When I questioned Dennis in regards to this letter, because
obviously the handwriting on this is a little more manipulated
than some of the other handwritings that we've seen by
the Zodiac, but he actually told me that he was
told that this was the Zodiac from Terrence Pascal, which
was one of the original document examiners in the Zodiac.
Speaker 5 (26:36):
Case back in the day.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
So I told him I wanted to hear this from
Terrence Pascal's mouth myself, and I went and I visited
Terrence Pascal.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
We had a very nice meeting, and.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
He indicated that yes, the document examiners on the case
at the time believed that this nineteen eighty six letter
was from the Zodiac, and it had never been produced
to the public before.
Speaker 5 (26:57):
So back to the YouTuber's.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Comment about how the guy little had claimed, you know,
he killed all over the place, we have the Zodiac
basically doing the same exact thing. He's taking credit for
far more than the four crimes that is attributed to
him in this particular letter. And again it's mailed to
the editor San Francisco Chronicle, the Mission Street for France
(27:20):
and Francisco, California, so he doesn't even put in the sand.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
So it's a little bit different.
Speaker 6 (27:27):
But that's all is a double entendre too, because in
eighty six, that's when Crack was blowing up. And I
think he's a little inside joke by him, he thought,
and maybe they tried to use Crack on I mean
(27:47):
he rejected it or something.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I wondered what triggered this communication, and of course I
know that he obviously needed to kill somebody for it
to be taken seriously. And on April twenty second, approximately
two weeks probably before this letter, cooy I and Say
Chow and Choi Fou Say Lee were shot to death
in their car on the side of the freeway at
Highway ninety nine and I five, which was Sacramento basically
(28:13):
back in this day now it's more like Natomas, but
it was not an Atomis back in the nineteen eighties.
I'm really interested in when they found the skull of
don Alas, because we know that they found her in
nineteen eighty six, but I don't know if I have
any information that leads me to an actual date for
that finding. So that may have been a trigger for
(28:36):
him to have sent this out because she had long
since been believed to be a Zodiac victim, and maybe
his way of popping his little, you know, rearing his
little ugly head when they find the skull and in
a way to take credit for it. But we're going
to hear about Harriet Toouchet's salve here in a few minutes,
so let's take this board. This is kind of some
(28:58):
of the information that I gleaned from as far as
the linguistics were concerned. We had the letter e spelling
errors in mystery. Mystery is also a word that's used
in the Corvette concepts fiasco mystery, and it's used in
the finale letter as the one of the addresses that's
on the actual envelope to the Tim Miller letter.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
We had still out here.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
In Crackproof, which is the Crackproof reference from Herbkane letters,
we have a referencing to having collected the slave latest
Slaves two weeks Ago, which is a Zodiac reference. Nevada
is spelled incorrectly as far as the acronym is concerned,
and it is should have been abbreviated NV, but we've
often seen that the Zodiac did not abbreviate the state references.
Speaker 5 (29:43):
He typically write out a portion of.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
It any v C A l IF, because I think
he had an issue actually with the actual acronyms. So
it helps to explain why Zodiac Jack prefers to spell
out the state partially.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
We had blue Mini's in there.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
We know that that is definitely adjective to describe the
police by the Zodiac. And he claims to have killed
one hundred plus bodies all over California and Nevada.
Speaker 5 (30:09):
Again. The envelopes to.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
The editor San Francisco Chronicles is on the top again
fifth and Mission Street, which is again another spelling error.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
He writes ann a N instead of fifth an.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
But that I got I think I got it as
E N. But he's he's his his whole code, so
but he knows how to spell. That's the point.
Speaker 5 (30:35):
Oh my god, it's still all here in crack proof.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Police are speculating that the night Stalker and the East
Bay rapist are either dead or in prison, and we
see this being addressed by the Zodiac and his own
messages as well as those of the Atlanta child killer cases.
Speaker 5 (30:50):
He's letting them know about his latest slaves.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
And two weeks ago up by Sacramento, the only murders
that I could find or see that anybody had reached
searched was those two particulars.
Speaker 5 (31:02):
And I think there was some reference.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
To the possibility that that was very closely knit to
the soy bottle.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
Was that you that said that areat no.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
I know the Tomboite receiving the fingerprints and kisou Choi packets.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
It's all.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
It's almost the same spellings at you because I never
did look at the keisou Choi packets. I mean I
looked at everything else. But I think he was probably
dropping a hint about those people.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Right, Well, that'll be interesting once we get to those
because I did not take that into consideration or make
that cross connection.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
So the clue to help with the mystery.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
We see mystery several times throughout these escapades and killed
by a freeway, which is similar to the DC Freeway
phantom and the I forty five, and many others that
were found in or around Reway.
Speaker 5 (32:01):
Locations.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
So that brings us to the actual solve that you
have in regards to the letter itself.
Speaker 5 (32:09):
So I believe the letters.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Yeah, the first one is just on the letter and
basically this was what just a simple anagram.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
It's pretty much I was. I think I did that
in an hour. It was easy to put into the
first book.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
But I'm asking, okay, so you basically took all the
information that is on the letter and then you anagrammed
it out to the message that you're about to read
to us, So go ahead.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
It says it says it's saying, amw on Walsh missing
the j but we know it's John Walsh, do my
one story told plus ZK Code, Sam g and Konna
teeth ate my six Bullets Circle Circle X ten am
(33:02):
in the morning, so ten it's anyways by one Torrance
and then it's just pretty much he's he's daring John
Walsh to do this. Now, his show wasn't on in
eighty six, but the test market of Texas most wanted,
I believe, had started airing in so that's why I
(33:25):
said I have to put this in there. Either way,
they were doing a test market for America's Most Wanted,
and everything meant they were preparing for shows a couple
of years in advance. So that's what How did you know?
Speaker 5 (33:38):
So was John Walsh in.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
The beginning the ages he was in?
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Yeah, yeah, they said, what was it eighty three eighty
four that Rupert Mordock through Fox wanted to do a
most Wanted show format with them, So there's Texas most Wanted.
I believe it was definitely by eighty six and the
format was planned hers in advance. So Jack Neil, so
(34:06):
you say one story told.
Speaker 6 (34:10):
I know when I was in law school in the
late eighties, it was already a thing America's most wanted.
So it started dajan wide as America's most wanted right
around eighty six.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Maybe yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
So anyway, things he's daring John Walsh to do his story.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Well, and it's only short five years from this letter
that he's actively writing. John Walsh in regards to the
real story, you're not going to catch me, and I
know countermeasures he's sending sniphers and codes, so we're going
to see those in nineteen ninety one, which isn't too
far off. Now you have another Let's see another solve
(34:48):
over here to the right, and it says something facsimile
to United States President George Washer Book George Walker Bush
carbon copy to Robert gray Smith and Tom Voight, Zodiac
Killer dot Com Incident Commander center.
Speaker 5 (35:04):
Do you do you recall this solve that you just sent?
We lost your sound, Harriet, all.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
Right, that's right off. That's doing the envelope. And I
always thought it was strange because the stamp is is
a different age anyways. I mean, so it is pretty
much definitely saying let's try to read this. It's he's
he's actually blackmailing tom Boite, which I think is funny. Sorry,
(35:34):
we know he's been so.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Was Tomboy running the Zodiac dot com at this time
in nineteen eighty six.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
No, this is actually when you're anagram by now that's
coming out as March twenty, two thousand and five, and
he's just been hired by Bush to go and get
Robert Abel. So he's he's that's why it's coming out
as March twentieth, two thousand and five. Bacsimile to Unite
the State's President George Walker Bush carbon copy to Robert Graysmith,
(36:04):
who was used to being blackmailed by him. Sorry, hello,
mister Raysmith anyways, and Tom boyd Zodiac Killer dot com.
And then this incident command center the location at zip
code nine four one zero three, and Dennis had the
phone number. Okay, he had the phone number in two
thousand and five to Raysmith, that's what I know. Anyways,
(36:28):
it's saying I was in very historic Hurst Frisco prefect
gig of nineteen forty two. What's that? That's the slew.
That's the Slumac mystery sul that's saying is nineteen forty two.
And the prefect at the time was the cardinal that
(36:49):
they all knew, all the president. This is a big deal.
He's saying he got started in nineteen forty two under
that cardinal in the Holy See of New York. Okay, anyways,
Then it goes on to say was with General Electric
Prescott Bush MP Alder. There's a lot of pauses because
(37:10):
Jack is dying now, so he's having a hard time breathing.
He's trying to recap. I sent me bell I envelope.
Thomas Jefferson stamp punched in the face aka Bullseye Consolation.
We did a show on that those six stamps. Oh
my god. Anyways, booklet pain printed by Bureau Printing and
(37:31):
Engraving printing method, engraved by Edward Silver issue date. Then
it just pauses in nineteen sixty eight perforations eleven pause eleven.
Richard Nixon resigned, switched my President, Jimmy Carter ordered November
twenty at nineteen seventy eight GMC this General Motors Company Company,
(37:54):
sorry son, the neo Nazi Christopher hit with eleven forty
four Dan Cooper body because there was a real Dan
Cooper anyways, shot and then he's saying the sheet, the
show him under the sheet at the place in Michigan anyways,
as my Pope John Paul two said to do so.
(38:15):
The new Pope had come in and he said, you
can't kill those people anyways. Then he's mentioning that he
killed or and Donna last and Tattletale. That's Lauren swearing
and there is a real one. He's dead anyways, kept
asking please for Pope John Paul two, who's now in
the ICU, dying, and then he was begging President Reagan.
(38:38):
Ronald used GSII that's the geospatial image interpretation and helped
find the remains. He's screaming, what was going on for years?
Tahoe National Forest Mountains. Then he's very guilty. He's filling
it in nineteen ninety nine, I killed trader Nora. There's
Salts that has Trader Nora, and he's trying to confirm
(39:00):
that it's him and he's done this anyways in Ice
You and then he's saying, to tell the truth, I
will die too in Ice You August two thousand and six.
If I may ask, if I'm on a mission, can
I will I really get the m efferror Robert Abel
(39:21):
and then he's saying ia Intrey alias as means in
disguise and Texas has a Nomanescio protected name again soon
two thousand and five. And then he's signing off as
j W. Torrens gr for John Walker Terrence. That is
all in the envelope. That's the missage.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
So and one of the things that I I what
did I just see there that I thought, wow, okay,
So the geospatial image interpretation, what is that?
Speaker 5 (39:50):
What is that?
Speaker 4 (39:52):
That's the eyes in the sky that Robert Abel helped
get the process of getting into the satellites.
Speaker 5 (40:01):
And so because Stephen.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
Yes, yes, what's his name? He knew about.
Speaker 5 (40:06):
Steven Stephen Dohurst.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
I was just going to say he was a professor
at Arizona State University, which is one of the places
that Jack was a security guard at.
Speaker 5 (40:16):
In the nineties.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
It had indicated that that was his job basically, was
to make identification of photographs and for such situations.
Speaker 4 (40:27):
Because they're constantly especially at the time, and I'm going
like this, I'm trying to see my hand, this is
this is above the earth. You can't see if you
can't hear it. Sometimes there's the jets at the time
that were flying above and if they were tracking some people,
which there was on drugs, a lot of complicated things. Anyways,
this would eventually get to people like Stephen Doohurst, who'll
(40:50):
be asked, you know, can you identify this and see
what you got? And so with the proper identification after
steering at something for animal, yeah, this is later to
longitude bla blah blah.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Well, I see what I did. Then I actually put
the work after this solve. So I just placed it.
Speaker 5 (41:10):
On the wrong side.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Here's you picking apart all that different information from that envelope,
signing it a number and then once you win a GRANMT,
you then turn around and mark which number that letter was.
Speaker 5 (41:23):
That was taken from the original information.
Speaker 4 (41:26):
Now I saved my I say what I called the
puzzle pieces too. If you saw that, you'd be like
calling me name, saying how do you work like that?
But I don't know processes, I.
Speaker 5 (41:39):
Beg I don't even begin to understand.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
All right, Well that brings us onto our next.
Speaker 6 (41:49):
On the on the cover, on the envelope writes out
San Francisco Chronicle, but on the addressing rights Francisco, California.
Speaker 7 (42:01):
But cal That's that was That told me right then
and there, And you know what, And Innette, I looked
at these, I looked at the ones you'd asked me
to do recently, and it's like I would start to do.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
Them and there would be a fire or something would happen.
I'd have to run. So anyways, I'm finally getting I
was glad to get to that one. I know, I
saw that what.
Speaker 5 (42:22):
Was the lights out? What what was that.
Speaker 4 (42:27):
Lights out? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (42:30):
I thought I thought you said lights out and no one,
Oh no, oh okay, lights out.
Speaker 5 (42:39):
Well here's another murder that happened in Irvine.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
I removed it because there was that discovery and match
in DNA that yielded Sacramento County a suspect named Joseph
James DeAngelo, and that was Janelle Li Sacruz and Irvine.
So we've I literally had already excluded this as a
p it's a case as a possible for Jack. But
again at the time, I believed it to be unsolved,
(43:04):
and I had placed every unsolved murder that I thought
of into this presentation.
Speaker 5 (43:09):
So I thought of or should I say.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
Found May seventh of nineteen eighty six, there's an article
written again something I don't have a copy of, but
it was something I found in the FOYA files, and
it says maybe these strings of newspaper articles stirred the Zodiac.
So the headline reads old murders of peninsulins still a puzzle.
And then on May eighth, nineteen eighty six, article probably
(43:34):
the same day as the next letter or around the
time of the letter for the Zodiac, and the headline
read murders still haunt.
Speaker 5 (43:43):
Him because he had no proof? By Dave Murphy.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
So I'm wondering if these particular articles coming out in
the newspaper were something that the zodiac saw, so he thought, oh,
let me, you know, tiptoe back into the water of
communications and murders. On May twenty fourth, and nineteen eighty
we had Shelley Kathleen Sykes. She disappeared on I forty
five on her way home to Texas City. Her car
was found blood splattered and the windshields smashed in. John
(44:10):
Robert King, and Gerald Peters Worst were charged with aggravated
kidnapping in this case because there was no body to
charge for the murder. So evidently we have some remains
that are missing, but they believe they found the people
who had killed her. And this is probably one of
the few times that a murder charge or a conviction
(44:30):
can come down when they don't even have a body.
Speaker 5 (44:33):
I mean, how often does that happen.
Speaker 4 (44:36):
I think I have something on Sykes, but it has
something to deal with unfortunately. Robert Abele again, Yeah, so,
and Jack is at the time, I think getting a
lot of him and his crew are just getting information. Sorry,
it's makes you shake your head.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
Everything about this makes me shake my head. So in
nineteen eighty six, right nineteen eighty six, we have summer
It's as summer of eighty six front yard on Kirby
our house Jack and Down. So we see that Jack
and Down are back together once again, and I believe
at this particular point in time that they are.
Speaker 5 (45:18):
Both living in the Roseville area, and.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
Dawn had originally been in the Riverside area, which is
where Jack returned to in nineteen sixty six when he
came back from his stay in Texas where he was
supposed to rent two mobile homes.
Speaker 5 (45:36):
August third of nineteen.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
Eighty six, we have a twenty to thirty year old
unidentified dead mail on Crater Lake off Crater Road, FM
thirty eighty three, Conrod, Texas. So again more murders in
that Conroe area. The body had been weighted down by
two cinderblocks and on an electrical cord, multiple gunshot wounds,
possibly had a street name of New York. Billy shirt
(45:58):
had mss US eight DASH zero one seven eight dash
two five Wilson written on the label inside. So I'm
not sure if that is a military number. I don't
recognize it to be, but I'm not up on my
military numbers or a prison inmate number, because in either case,
(46:23):
I would think that you would probably have identified or
written things on the tags of your clothing.
Speaker 5 (46:33):
Yeah, mental hospital.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
The individual was five foot six inches, one hundred and
thirty three pounds, small build, collar length, red, red slash,
brown hair, decayning teeth, left ear was pierced.
Speaker 5 (46:47):
Left upper arm had a tattoo Liz.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
Left forearm has a small devil with a tail figure
on it, and right upper arm had a tattoo that
said baby Dawn and had a petal flame flower design.
So I did not find a picture on it, though
I would have liked to, just to be able to
show those tattoos and see if somebody you know now
recognizes or recalls or maybe even has any pictures in
(47:12):
their belongings of family members or people from back in
the day that might have matching tattoos. So we're going
to see a pickup in crimes in Texas and and
Sacramento as a matter of fact. So September twenty sixth
of nineteen eighty six, Laura Lee Tremley was going to
(47:33):
a bus stop. I don't have any idea where this
was actually at. She was fifteen years old. Many of
these victims were children taken from or on their way
to bus stops. She was strangled. She was strangled. Anthony
Allen Shore is said to be the suspect in that
particular case. But on September twenty seventh, nineteen eighty six,
we have sixteen year old Dianna Lynn Ogg seventeen thousand
(47:56):
block of Old Houston Road in Conrod, Texas seen at
a convenience store located on FM thirteen fourteen at Sordiers Road.
Porter A seven PM. Body is found in a heavily
wooded area off a logging road. But this is very
similar to the Laura Miller case Tim Miller's daughter, where
she was at a convenience store, taken and then dumped
(48:18):
in an area well off the beaten path.
Speaker 5 (48:24):
October twelfth, nineteen eighty six.
Speaker 3 (48:25):
Kathleen Thomas and Rebecca Andandowski on Colonial Parkway in Virginia
was strangled with their throats cut, found in a car
pushed down an embankment. November twenty fourth, nineteen eighty six.
Teresa don Clark, Sacramento. The contact for this person is
joe Enlow for anybody who has information. She was last
(48:46):
seen buying groceries at Albertson's on eighth East eighth Street.
Environmental toxicology study from UC Davis and Sacramento.
Speaker 5 (48:54):
Was on a job interview for this place.
Speaker 6 (48:57):
Pool its leveast eighth street.
Speaker 5 (49:02):
What's that?
Speaker 2 (49:02):
I have never heard of street? Odd?
Speaker 3 (49:10):
I well, this is information we've got to remember. I'm
getting from stuff on the internet, and who knows how
correct that absolutely is.
Speaker 5 (49:20):
But it says she plays pool at a club.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
And then goes grocery shopping. Some of her clothes were
found in Sacramento. Her backpack was dumped near Mace Boulevard
overpass on I eighty. Body was found in Yolo Bypass,
badly beaten. Badly beaten was not on the murder map
for bets. And then the Zodiac basically goes silent after
(49:42):
this particular uh murder. But it's interesting to note that
they're finding her property in locations along the freeway again,
because that's another Zodiac thing or another moo in some
of these yep leaving the trail and you know, a
backpack here, a purse there, these kind of things all
(50:02):
over the place. December eighth, nineteen eighty six, twenty nine
year old Rita May Hughes Houston, Texas bus station went missing.
Speaker 5 (50:11):
White.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
Oh, we were overtime, guys. We're at fifty twenty five.
Right now, I gotta same today, we'll come back and
finish off this last murder. I want everybody to enjoy
their Fourth of July weekend. I hope the holiday is
great for you, and we will see you the following Friday.
Speaker 5 (50:27):
Thank you guys for being here.
Speaker 4 (50:30):
Bye bye
This program is designed to provide general information with regards
to the subject matters covered. This information is given with
the understanding that neither the hosts, guests, sponsors, or station
are engaged in rendering any specific and personal medical, financial,
legal counseling, professional service, or any advice.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
You should seek the services.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Of competent professionals before applying or trying any suggested ideas.
Speaker 3 (00:52):
Good morning, True Seekers and true crime junkies. Welcome back
to another episode of Hit the Roadjack Finding the Zodiac.
I'd like to welcome to the show today, Harriet Souche.
Speaker 4 (01:04):
Good morning, and Pappy Forth.
Speaker 5 (01:07):
Happy fo yes exactly.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Happy fourth of July to everybody and all the men
and women out there that ensure our freedoms and our liberties.
We appreciate and thank you so much. I had an
interesting actual YouTube comment that popped up, so I thought
that it was worth at least addressing at the beginning here.
I'm going to go ahead and flip over to the
(01:31):
presentation and kind of just give you a brief on
my pictures here. So this first picture in the center
with this great, big, huge flag that's being dawned by
a crane over the top of the road was when
I first started this particular podcast. So it was the
first fourth of July and I had gone to Alturas
(01:53):
for a family reunion and I just thought, what an
amazing picture that this would make with the flag hanging
over the top off of the road.
Speaker 5 (02:01):
And of course this one to the right here was
one that I actually took because I took a different
I went I.
Speaker 3 (02:08):
I went three ninety five out of Reno instead of
I five, so I got to see this one on
I five and then once I arrived in Alturas in
an opposite manner, I was able to capture this picture
of a flag again, obviously celebrating the fourth of July season.
Speaker 5 (02:26):
So I love your hat. I love your outfit. You're
so festive.
Speaker 4 (02:30):
Yeah, before I take the head off the showing you
of the lights, but you know, and then it's going
to mess up my hair.
Speaker 5 (02:41):
A don't do that.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
I think it looks adorable, all right. So this YouTuber
Pepper state nine five five and I actually answered a
few of the questions on the YouTube channel, but told
them that I was going to be addressing the majority
of this here on the show today. So he says,
why are we trying to tie Jack to the Lipstick
(03:03):
killings and the text Arcana Phantom murders. This kind of
makes me think that he's in the beginning stages. But
if he's in the beginning stages watching these podcasts, then
I think that we were fairly clear on these particular
murder spreeze what it was that we volte connected Jack.
So I'm not sure where he's at or why this
(03:23):
question is coming up at this point in time, But
he says, the survivors of Texarcana Phantom on two twenty two,
nineteen forty six, the male victim described attacker as tanned,
white male. The female victim described attacker as light skinned
black male. Now, the female, who unfortunately had more contact
with the killer due to be in sexually assaulted, would
(03:45):
be assumed to be able to provide a better description.
But my point is, why is everyone always attempting to
put murders like the Texarcana Lipstick killings to the Zodiac.
The Zodiac committed four known crimes in the San Francisco
area and there were no sexual assaults. You know that
former Detective Hodel says his father was the Zodiac and
also the person responsible for the black.
Speaker 5 (04:06):
Dahlia and a bunch of other murders.
Speaker 3 (04:09):
Why is it so difficult for people to understand that
there are always multiple serial killers loose in the US
at the same time, not to mention a bunch of
other people who commit murders in a one off type
situation where opportunity and desire are just in charge. How
tall was Jack? How do we confirm he was in
Chicago at the time and place of the lipstick murders
(04:30):
or Intexarcana at the time and place of the phantom murders.
The only reason we know Samuel Little killed all over
the place was because he said he did. I think
these were some really great questions, So you want to
take a stab at that area?
Speaker 4 (04:45):
Well? Number one. To our surprise, the anagram was for
the lipstick killing, saying, my name is Jack darn is
Lain JBR. I see more of them, You'll see more
of me. And we all felt kind of, you know,
like hitting our heads. I said, is this how simple
it can be if you just anagramm it?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Okay?
Speaker 4 (05:06):
Then technically he's kind of right about the George Hodell thing,
because I've seen George Hodell's name brought up in the
early ones and from my view, George Hodell was the
older guy training the younger crew. But Jack is definitely
associated with so many of these and it has everything
(05:27):
to do with the Intel community and being a hired
gun and slaying some people. And he's even admitting that
he's killed people. So that's my that's my three cents
right there.
Speaker 3 (05:42):
Well, my explanation to him was because the handwriting was
a match. We know that I took this particular examination
to the FBI and showed them how the handwriting on
the wall in the Francis Brown.
Speaker 5 (05:59):
I believe it was.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Yes if we or whatever yet, but it was consistent.
Speaker 3 (06:04):
Was consistent with Jack's handwriting. Their response, Hopkins or agent Hopkins,
indicated that I couldn't place Jack in Chicago, Illinois simply
because the handwriting matched. And of course I thought to myself,
then what am I doing? If I can't make an
identification of handwriting?
Speaker 5 (06:22):
Am I in the wrong business? Do I have?
Speaker 4 (06:24):
You know?
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Is there any science basically to handwriting? If we could
make such a mistake. Now, three weeks later, Dennis and
I on the phone with Jack's aunt. She indicates that
Flova sold the farm, the family farm in Texas, in
nineteen forty four and moved to Chicago, Illinois. That aside
from the fact that we have pictures in his Jack
(06:48):
and his Navy uniform in the Chicago, Illinois area, we
also have him in front of the Northern Public Power
Company of Illinois. We had so several key indicators that
showed that he had proximity during this timeframe. And of
course we know that he always went home to Mom,
so he's going to be back and forth wherever she's at.
Speaker 5 (07:09):
And Chicago is no different than Texas for Jack.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
He will hop on the road in one of his
fits in and just drive for as long as he can.
Probably I bet he pulled off twenty eight hours like
it was nobody's business. And Dennis even indicated he did
this a lot right.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
Well, yes, and I can just quickly say something when
my father was out to see a lot and he
was a Navy reserve, Yeah, he drive thirty hours, no problem.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
So it's done okay, exactly, And everybody has to has
to also realize that we did map out Jack's happenstances.
Speaker 5 (07:44):
Good morning, Nolan, Good morning, Good morning Mirror, Happy fourth
of July.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yes, we're just covering a YouTuber's comment at this point
in regards to hying Jack to the Texarcana phantom murders
and the lipstick killings. So I also wanted everybody to
realize is that the murders of these gals and Susan
Dagnan happened on the outs or on times when Jack
was not in service with the military.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
So there it's.
Speaker 3 (08:18):
Very probable that he had the opportunity, and we know
that he had the proximity. So as far as the
Texarcana phantom murders, there were some other indicators there that
kind of put things together. One of them was the
wearing of the mask, which is something that we saw in.
Speaker 5 (08:35):
The Lake bary Essa murders. There was the.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Fact that it was basically happening around another army base
read I think it was Red Arsenal. Trying to remember,
I know, I'm so far out of nineteen forty six,
I would literally have to get it's something or depot.
Speaker 5 (08:54):
I don't know, I have to go back and look.
Speaker 3 (08:56):
But these murders of these individuals and these young couples
occurred in and around within minutes of an army base.
So there was a few things that we put together
I think also that the gun that was used in
the tax ar Can of Phantom murders was said to
be a particular type. Jack had gotten himself in some
trouble at one point and had his gun confiscated, and
(09:18):
Dennis had indicated that Jack had went to the local
judge and asked for the judge to get him that
gun back because he's afraid that that gun could be
tied to murders such as Texarcana phantom or even possibly
the Florida murder which was on Darnia Beach. I believe,
so there was something. We're just saying that that Jack
(09:39):
is in this area.
Speaker 5 (09:40):
Jack is a.
Speaker 3 (09:41):
Bootlegger at the time the text ar Can of phantom
murders occur. Here's lots of time on his hand if
he's not running liquor back and forth.
Speaker 4 (09:48):
So they.
Speaker 5 (09:54):
Sorry, no, that's okay, that's okay.
Speaker 4 (09:59):
I'm just wanted to say really quick, if they're doing
things like that as a spy, then they're getting the
goods of other people. Let's say he's running some laquer
to the governor's nephew, right right right. It's it's diabolical,
but it's the way it happens well.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
And also, as you had mentioned in the Lipstick Killings,
that particular message that was on the wall was rewritten
several times in lipsticks. So if you have a clear
image of this particular writing on the wall, you'll see
that the killer starts to write, then a rasis starts
to write, then a rasis, and probably an attempt to
actually conceal his handwriting, or at least he thinks he's
(10:39):
manipulating his handwriting so that it doesn't come back to him.
But that anagram done by Lauren's swearing him actually turned
out to yield the fact that it had Jack Terrence's
name in it, which is why Lauren's swearing them even
contacted me in the first place, because my suspect was
the only name that came out of this message with
an a complete message about having killed Francis Brown.
Speaker 5 (11:03):
And having committed these murders.
Speaker 3 (11:06):
And then we have to crossover between the Black Dahlia
and the Lipstick Killings, which is that Susan Dagnan was dumped.
Her body parts were dumped, so mind you, her body
has been bisected and and she has been dumped down
Hollywood Bullvlo Hollywood Boulevard. And then Black Dahlia is dumped
(11:26):
near Dagnan Boulevard in Hollywood.
Speaker 5 (11:28):
She's also been bicect It's a.
Speaker 4 (11:33):
Version of laying out code.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
She's you know, and just now, didn't you think, Harriet
that the Sauls had said something to the effect that
Hodell's father had been part of that bisection of Black Doahia.
Speaker 4 (11:48):
I believe I have one that we may have covered,
but you know, we'd have to go back and look,
because I've got stacks of page I saved all my work.
I'm like, but I believe there was a chin where
and that's how come William harens Uh couldn't take it
and started crying and took off and then they caught him.
Speaker 3 (12:09):
So, oh, gotcha. He was part of the group as well.
Speaker 4 (12:14):
Yeah, well yeah, but he he wasn't strong enough to
handle and who really would be strong enough being a
butcher child with their leg over here? You know, so
we would be ghost because people might be eating right now.
Speaker 5 (12:29):
Yeah, yes, did Jack Jack.
Speaker 3 (12:35):
Jack was an avid hunter. He bisected animals all the time.
The pictures of him actively doing this stuff. So now,
as far as the.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Series that Ray was involved.
Speaker 4 (12:47):
The artist, yes.
Speaker 5 (12:51):
Or somebody minded man Ray's.
Speaker 4 (12:54):
I've seen his name in there.
Speaker 5 (12:55):
Sorry, yeah, yeah, no, we we have.
Speaker 3 (12:58):
So as far as the description is concerned, it's you know,
I think that somebody's being traumatized late at night. I'm
not sure what it was that this person saw. The
male sees one thing, the woman sees another thing. But
what I do know with the Atlanta, Georgia child killers
case is that one of the victims called and said
(13:19):
she was with a nice white man.
Speaker 5 (13:20):
However, they wanted to charge a blackmail for this.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
So it's kind of back and forth as to what
the truth is behind, you know, who these suspects truly
are and what the media has presented. And everybody has
to remember that any information out there that we can
glean is from the media, and we're saying that there's
a heavy involvement in the media, so distorting me things
and yeah, and creating the narrative for what it is
(13:49):
that they want us to believe has been easily done.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
Over the years.
Speaker 3 (13:54):
We've seen stuff taken down, we've seen stuff added, we've
seen new stuff come up that nobody's ever heard of before,
and each and every time the story just gets blown
up to another degree where people are just completely confused,
which is why I do the podcast, not only to
out the fake suspects or the false people who are
trying to, you know, push their narrative, but also to
say that Jack should be looked at it for these things.
(14:18):
Let's see, Yes, we know about that, So why is
it okay? So he says, why is it so difficult
for people to understand that there are always multiple serial
killers loose in the US at the same time. This
isn't the same time, Buddy text Art, Canna Lipsticks, Zodiac,
Black DOLLI.
Speaker 5 (14:34):
All of these.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Happened in different eras, and all of them contain handwriting.
And what I wanted to say is that the Zodiac
didn't wake up one day try to kill you know,
seven people, eleven months, write hundreds of communications, only to
fall off the face of the earth, having not done
it before this and never having done it again.
Speaker 5 (14:52):
I just simply don't buy that.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
But I do find that this particular YouTuber is their
comment is perfect for this episode because we're going to
to get into to see he says that I don't
know who I don't know who Samuel Little is, but
it says he killed all over the place because he
was because he said he did. Well, we're about to
see today in some of the communications that the zodiac
(15:16):
indicates that he's killed more than one hundred people over
California and Nevada. So I say, let's move on into
it now. I know that I'm not sure how far
we got into these particular murders, but I'm going to
read them off anyways, just in case. On January fourteenth
and nineteen eighty six, we have seventeen year old Regina Sakamoto.
Of course, this is another Honolulu murder, and again I
(15:39):
did not feel heavily that this was Jack, but anything
that was unsolved I was literally thrown into this presentation
in case it could be so. Over the next three months,
Denise Hughes, Louis Maderos, and Linda Pesky are also killed.
Speaker 5 (15:52):
I believe in Honolulu.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
January nineteen eighty six, sixty eight year old and Anna
Carom is a Frankfurt neighborhood of Philip, Philadelphia.
Speaker 5 (16:01):
She stabbed to death in her apartment.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
Like the first victim, she is nude from the waist
down with her shirt pushed up to exposure chest. Over
the next four years, the Frankfort slasher would claim seven
more lives. I need to do research on this because
I'm not sure who those seven are. Some of the
victims were seen with a middle aged white male before
their deaths. So middle aged, that's you know pretty much, Jack, you.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Know it is?
Speaker 5 (16:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:26):
So Carol Dowd was a nineteen ninety victim found behind
a fish market in nineteen ninety and Leonard Christopher was convicted.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
Of her death.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
However, it is believed that he is innocent since he
was a black male and did not match the description
of the suspect and other crimes, and another crime was
committed while he was incarcerated, instilling the notion that he
was not the Frankfort slasher. So here we have another twist.
We have a black mail that's being convicted for a
crime when the witnesses saw white mail. So you tell me, yeah,
(16:58):
there's always an issue here. So we had some communications
come in March seventh, nineteen eighty six. It was postmarked
in Los Angeles. The name was redacted, but it went
to Ambler Tours at ten ten Second Avenue, Sweet nineteen hundred,
San Diego, California, nine.
Speaker 5 (17:16):
Two one zero one.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
The FBI foil files only indicated high then they redacted
the name we are, so this premise of a WE
faction once again. And a second one was mailed on
March twelfth, nineteen eighty six, postmarked from Los Angeles as well.
Name was redacted again to Ambler Tours. So with these
two communications, I haven't had the opportunity to actually see
(17:40):
I just know that the FBI took a look at
these communications believing that there was a potential for them
being a communication from the Zodiac Killer, which kind of
makes some of the other communications we're going to talk
about make sense because it's like he's back in action again.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
So he's back to Can I say one thing that
stands out to me is the one that's redacted and
then says Ambler Jools, we've done assault on this, but
I mean, we've done a show. But he's saying the
reason why he had to go after the kids, Uh,
(18:19):
Fara Day and Jensen was because Fara Day's father bought uh.
But the rambler that belonged to the pain and Uh
that I mean there's a link there and somebody. Yeah,
so that was the rambler was the rambler was the
(18:40):
was the reason for the killings. But anyway, So you
got something there. Maybe maybe he's still trying to catch
up on the past, but anyways, that was something that
stood up to me, especially when we got san Diego
there too.
Speaker 5 (18:56):
What were you saying, Nolan.
Speaker 6 (18:59):
Yeah, Ruth day Uhna lived with her and yeah, she
put her up and she was a part of uh well,
she was heavily connected. Her family was with c I,
a FBI, that type of thing.
Speaker 4 (19:17):
Oh, even again they weren't linking her as officially.
Speaker 6 (19:25):
Is that she's the one that recommended that Lee Harvey
applied for the job of the school but depository. So
a lot of theories, theories say that he was she
injected herself into their lives for the purpose of helping.
Speaker 3 (19:40):
Manipulate gotcha, and so she owned the rambler that you
then believed Faaraday's father purchase.
Speaker 5 (19:50):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (19:52):
Yeah, And I don't know which that was a solve
in in which communication believe.
Speaker 4 (19:58):
I think it's the fair Field letters very early as
like nineteen seventy one, seventy two, So it's early stuff
that I did. And I was like shocked to find
out that that's but he felt very guilty for killing
those kids. He's saying his conscience was coming up as
the gun went down.
Speaker 6 (20:16):
On them, and that's the Lake German Road once. Yes, yeah, okay, all.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
Right, Well, in March nineteenth to nineteen eighty six, Nor
receives a nurse assistant certificate and it's mailed to the
Kirby Street address, so we know that she is currently
in Roseville, California, which is literally about ten minutes.
Speaker 5 (20:35):
That way from me. On March.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
March thirtieth, nineteen eighty six. Easter is generally spent in Texas,
with Texas with Flova, Jack's mother, but I don't have
anything for Jack during this time. However, the location and
nature of the next crime should be considered due to
who Jack was and the propensity to visit his mother
every single Easter pretty much that I can tell. So
this just sits means I maybe didn't have an actual
(21:02):
picture of him there for Easter, but it doesn't mean that.
It doesn't that he didn't visit her. On April of
nineteen eighty six, we have a headless woman recovered from
a garage a garbage bag in State Park in Galveston.
Body remains unidentified at this point. Now I know that
we've had skulls so this always flashes me back. You know,
(21:23):
is this the body of Donna Lass? You know, we
found her skull, but we didn't find her remains. And
now there are remains that are headless found back in
Texas and are still unidentified. So I'm assuming that I
need to I guess there was also a Scholl found
in Massachusetts in a lake or near a lake, should
(21:46):
I say, And I thought maybe that was a good.
Speaker 5 (21:49):
Cross connection too for trying to put figure.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Out whether or not those remains go to that Scholl
so headless, which is consistent with the bisection of Dagen
and Elizabeth Short and the two girls in the Arizona
area that occurs in nineteen ninety two to nineteen ninety three,
while Jack is in Arizona. The I forty five killings
in California killings where partial remains one victim was found
in the grave with another or partial remains found in
(22:13):
one location where the rest of the remains were found
twenty miles or more away. So separating the body parts
is definitely a type of mo that has happened to
end some of these crimes breed some of the.
Speaker 6 (22:27):
Hy Bob size or Harriet at least that the Donaldas's
body parts were somewhere in uh near, They're like.
Speaker 4 (22:35):
No, yeah, but you know what, I got quite a
few songs where he is pleading, you know, with through
somebody else to get to Reagan. But he's pleading for
the boat because he wasn't supposed to kill those Catholics,
blah blah blah. But it stops after a while. So
it's almost as if and now you're seeing that if
(22:55):
they claim they found somebody and parts and everything, you know,
I'd like to know where do they get Are they
still there? Did they get buried? Because I think I
think they actually found them, and the Pope wanted the
Catholics that were killed to be buried under the juniper
tree on a hill like Mount Hocm where there's tons
(23:17):
of juniper trees there.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
So well, and I think is where they did find
actual body parts exactly. They just didn't have the they well,
the FBI believed it was too intrusive to test every
single family member of the victims.
Speaker 5 (23:34):
You determine who those remains went back to.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
But if they could test that school found in nineteen
eighty seventy of Donna lasses in twenty twenty four, then
they could certainly test these bones that they found on
the jax Ol property.
Speaker 4 (23:50):
See if they match. But I'm just going that out
there because I.
Speaker 2 (23:54):
Like or the California series.
Speaker 3 (24:00):
Alcome is up near Somerset, up near plac Oh yeah,
California outside.
Speaker 5 (24:07):
Okay, Yeah, it's just below.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
It's basically, I think within an hour of South Lake Tahoe.
Speaker 5 (24:12):
It's not that far away. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (24:15):
Wow, on Sunday, I'm my way up there.
Speaker 5 (24:19):
Oh there you go, have some fun.
Speaker 3 (24:21):
Some of the eyewitness accounts for the I forty five
killings was a person dressed in authentic police or security
guard type uniform. And Jack so happens to be a
security guard at this point. And I know that we
mentioned that before, but it came back up, so I
figured it was.
Speaker 5 (24:35):
Good to throw it out there. Now we have this new.
Speaker 3 (24:38):
Letter that came about, and I now believe that it
likely I used to I wasn't sure if it was
May or March that this was mailed, but it's now
starting to look like if it's consistent with the two
murders that we're going to talk about here, that it
is consistent with May of nineteen eighty six. And to
give you some background on this letter. Dennis had brought
it to me and indicated that this was a Zodiac letter.
(25:00):
Now I want everybody to take notice that it says
minus one hundred plus and it says the body count
is growing now one hundred plus all over the state
of California and Nevada. So I'm now not going to
take this as a minus one hundred plus. As much
as every time the Zodiac made the symbol, he always
made the hyphen and then he indicated a number for him,
(25:21):
and he indicated a zero four SFPD as if they'd
not caught anybody for these crimes, this one says one
hundred plus, which.
Speaker 2 (25:30):
Does a hyphen and not a minus sign.
Speaker 6 (25:33):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
Yeah, And because he says it in the letter, he says,
this is the Zodiac speaking.
Speaker 5 (25:38):
I am still out here in Crackproof.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
And now Crackproof runs in tandem with the herb Cane letters,
the one that Tashi was accused of forging, and then
another one we're going to talk about here shortly, but
it says I want you to know about my latest
slaves that I have collected about two weeks ago up
by Sacramento, California. I will give you a clue to
help you with the mystery. They were killed by a freeway.
(26:04):
The blue minis almost caught me. The body count is
growing now, one hundred plus all over the state of California, Nevada,
SFPD zero Zodiac one hundred plus.
Speaker 5 (26:15):
Now.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
When I questioned Dennis in regards to this letter, because
obviously the handwriting on this is a little more manipulated
than some of the other handwritings that we've seen by
the Zodiac, but he actually told me that he was
told that this was the Zodiac from Terrence Pascal, which
was one of the original document examiners in the Zodiac.
Speaker 5 (26:36):
Case back in the day.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
So I told him I wanted to hear this from
Terrence Pascal's mouth myself, and I went and I visited
Terrence Pascal.
Speaker 5 (26:45):
We had a very nice meeting, and.
Speaker 3 (26:47):
He indicated that yes, the document examiners on the case
at the time believed that this nineteen eighty six letter
was from the Zodiac, and it had never been produced
to the public before.
Speaker 5 (26:57):
So back to the YouTuber's.
Speaker 3 (26:59):
Comment about how the guy little had claimed, you know,
he killed all over the place, we have the Zodiac
basically doing the same exact thing. He's taking credit for
far more than the four crimes that is attributed to
him in this particular letter. And again it's mailed to
the editor San Francisco Chronicle, the Mission Street for France
(27:20):
and Francisco, California, so he doesn't even put in the sand.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
So it's a little bit different.
Speaker 6 (27:27):
But that's all is a double entendre too, because in
eighty six, that's when Crack was blowing up. And I
think he's a little inside joke by him, he thought,
and maybe they tried to use Crack on I mean
(27:47):
he rejected it or something.
Speaker 2 (27:49):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (27:50):
I wondered what triggered this communication, and of course I
know that he obviously needed to kill somebody for it
to be taken seriously. And on April twenty second, approximately
two weeks probably before this letter, cooy I and Say
Chow and Choi Fou Say Lee were shot to death
in their car on the side of the freeway at
Highway ninety nine and I five, which was Sacramento basically
(28:13):
back in this day now it's more like Natomas, but
it was not an Atomis back in the nineteen eighties.
I'm really interested in when they found the skull of
don Alas, because we know that they found her in
nineteen eighty six, but I don't know if I have
any information that leads me to an actual date for
that finding. So that may have been a trigger for
(28:36):
him to have sent this out because she had long
since been believed to be a Zodiac victim, and maybe
his way of popping his little, you know, rearing his
little ugly head when they find the skull and in
a way to take credit for it. But we're going
to hear about Harriet Toouchet's salve here in a few minutes,
so let's take this board. This is kind of some
(28:58):
of the information that I gleaned from as far as
the linguistics were concerned. We had the letter e spelling
errors in mystery. Mystery is also a word that's used
in the Corvette concepts fiasco mystery, and it's used in
the finale letter as the one of the addresses that's
on the actual envelope to the Tim Miller letter.
Speaker 5 (29:19):
We had still out here.
Speaker 3 (29:20):
In Crackproof, which is the Crackproof reference from Herbkane letters,
we have a referencing to having collected the slave latest
Slaves two weeks Ago, which is a Zodiac reference. Nevada
is spelled incorrectly as far as the acronym is concerned,
and it is should have been abbreviated NV, but we've
often seen that the Zodiac did not abbreviate the state references.
Speaker 5 (29:43):
He typically write out a portion of.
Speaker 3 (29:45):
It any v C A l IF, because I think
he had an issue actually with the actual acronyms. So
it helps to explain why Zodiac Jack prefers to spell
out the state partially.
Speaker 5 (29:57):
We had blue Mini's in there.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
We know that that is definitely adjective to describe the
police by the Zodiac. And he claims to have killed
one hundred plus bodies all over California and Nevada.
Speaker 5 (30:09):
Again. The envelopes to.
Speaker 3 (30:10):
The editor San Francisco Chronicles is on the top again
fifth and Mission Street, which is again another spelling error.
Speaker 5 (30:18):
He writes ann a N instead of fifth an.
Speaker 4 (30:24):
But that I got I think I got it as
E N. But he's he's his his whole code, so
but he knows how to spell. That's the point.
Speaker 5 (30:35):
Oh my god, it's still all here in crack proof.
Speaker 3 (30:38):
Police are speculating that the night Stalker and the East
Bay rapist are either dead or in prison, and we
see this being addressed by the Zodiac and his own
messages as well as those of the Atlanta child killer cases.
Speaker 5 (30:50):
He's letting them know about his latest slaves.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
And two weeks ago up by Sacramento, the only murders
that I could find or see that anybody had reached
searched was those two particulars.
Speaker 5 (31:02):
And I think there was some reference.
Speaker 3 (31:03):
To the possibility that that was very closely knit to
the soy bottle.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
Was that you that said that areat no.
Speaker 4 (31:11):
I know the Tomboite receiving the fingerprints and kisou Choi packets.
Speaker 5 (31:21):
It's all.
Speaker 4 (31:24):
It's almost the same spellings at you because I never
did look at the keisou Choi packets. I mean I
looked at everything else. But I think he was probably
dropping a hint about those people.
Speaker 3 (31:38):
Right, Well, that'll be interesting once we get to those
because I did not take that into consideration or make
that cross connection.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
So the clue to help with the mystery.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
We see mystery several times throughout these escapades and killed
by a freeway, which is similar to the DC Freeway
phantom and the I forty five, and many others that
were found in or around Reway.
Speaker 5 (32:01):
Locations.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
So that brings us to the actual solve that you
have in regards to the letter itself.
Speaker 5 (32:09):
So I believe the letters.
Speaker 3 (32:11):
Yeah, the first one is just on the letter and
basically this was what just a simple anagram.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
It's pretty much I was. I think I did that
in an hour. It was easy to put into the
first book.
Speaker 3 (32:24):
But I'm asking, okay, so you basically took all the
information that is on the letter and then you anagrammed
it out to the message that you're about to read
to us, So go ahead.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
It says it says it's saying, amw on Walsh missing
the j but we know it's John Walsh, do my
one story told plus ZK Code, Sam g and Konna
teeth ate my six Bullets Circle Circle X ten am
(33:02):
in the morning, so ten it's anyways by one Torrance
and then it's just pretty much he's he's daring John
Walsh to do this. Now, his show wasn't on in
eighty six, but the test market of Texas most wanted,
I believe, had started airing in so that's why I
(33:25):
said I have to put this in there. Either way,
they were doing a test market for America's Most Wanted,
and everything meant they were preparing for shows a couple
of years in advance. So that's what How did you know?
Speaker 5 (33:38):
So was John Walsh in.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
The beginning the ages he was in?
Speaker 4 (33:44):
Yeah, yeah, they said, what was it eighty three eighty
four that Rupert Mordock through Fox wanted to do a
most Wanted show format with them, So there's Texas most Wanted.
I believe it was definitely by eighty six and the
format was planned hers in advance. So Jack Neil, so
(34:06):
you say one story told.
Speaker 6 (34:10):
I know when I was in law school in the
late eighties, it was already a thing America's most wanted.
So it started dajan wide as America's most wanted right
around eighty six.
Speaker 2 (34:22):
Maybe yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
So anyway, things he's daring John Walsh to do his story.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
Well, and it's only short five years from this letter
that he's actively writing. John Walsh in regards to the
real story, you're not going to catch me, and I
know countermeasures he's sending sniphers and codes, so we're going
to see those in nineteen ninety one, which isn't too
far off. Now you have another Let's see another solve
(34:48):
over here to the right, and it says something facsimile
to United States President George Washer Book George Walker Bush
carbon copy to Robert gray Smith and Tom Voight, Zodiac
Killer dot Com Incident Commander center.
Speaker 5 (35:04):
Do you do you recall this solve that you just sent?
We lost your sound, Harriet, all.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
Right, that's right off. That's doing the envelope. And I
always thought it was strange because the stamp is is
a different age anyways. I mean, so it is pretty
much definitely saying let's try to read this. It's he's
he's actually blackmailing tom Boite, which I think is funny. Sorry,
(35:34):
we know he's been so.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Was Tomboy running the Zodiac dot com at this time
in nineteen eighty six.
Speaker 4 (35:40):
No, this is actually when you're anagram by now that's
coming out as March twenty, two thousand and five, and
he's just been hired by Bush to go and get
Robert Abel. So he's he's that's why it's coming out
as March twentieth, two thousand and five. Bacsimile to Unite
the State's President George Walker Bush carbon copy to Robert Graysmith,
(36:04):
who was used to being blackmailed by him. Sorry, hello,
mister Raysmith anyways, and Tom boyd Zodiac Killer dot com.
And then this incident command center the location at zip
code nine four one zero three, and Dennis had the
phone number. Okay, he had the phone number in two
thousand and five to Raysmith, that's what I know. Anyways,
(36:28):
it's saying I was in very historic Hurst Frisco prefect
gig of nineteen forty two. What's that? That's the slew.
That's the Slumac mystery sul that's saying is nineteen forty two.
And the prefect at the time was the cardinal that
(36:49):
they all knew, all the president. This is a big deal.
He's saying he got started in nineteen forty two under
that cardinal in the Holy See of New York. Okay, anyways,
Then it goes on to say was with General Electric
Prescott Bush MP Alder. There's a lot of pauses because
(37:10):
Jack is dying now, so he's having a hard time breathing.
He's trying to recap. I sent me bell I envelope.
Thomas Jefferson stamp punched in the face aka Bullseye Consolation.
We did a show on that those six stamps. Oh
my god. Anyways, booklet pain printed by Bureau Printing and
(37:31):
Engraving printing method, engraved by Edward Silver issue date. Then
it just pauses in nineteen sixty eight perforations eleven pause eleven.
Richard Nixon resigned, switched my President, Jimmy Carter ordered November
twenty at nineteen seventy eight GMC this General Motors Company Company,
(37:54):
sorry son, the neo Nazi Christopher hit with eleven forty
four Dan Cooper body because there was a real Dan
Cooper anyways, shot and then he's saying the sheet, the
show him under the sheet at the place in Michigan anyways,
as my Pope John Paul two said to do so.
(38:15):
The new Pope had come in and he said, you
can't kill those people anyways. Then he's mentioning that he
killed or and Donna last and Tattletale. That's Lauren swearing
and there is a real one. He's dead anyways, kept
asking please for Pope John Paul two, who's now in
the ICU, dying, and then he was begging President Reagan.
(38:38):
Ronald used GSII that's the geospatial image interpretation and helped
find the remains. He's screaming, what was going on for years?
Tahoe National Forest Mountains. Then he's very guilty. He's filling
it in nineteen ninety nine, I killed trader Nora. There's
Salts that has Trader Nora, and he's trying to confirm
(39:00):
that it's him and he's done this anyways in Ice
You and then he's saying, to tell the truth, I
will die too in Ice You August two thousand and six.
If I may ask, if I'm on a mission, can
I will I really get the m efferror Robert Abel
(39:21):
and then he's saying ia Intrey alias as means in
disguise and Texas has a Nomanescio protected name again soon
two thousand and five. And then he's signing off as
j W. Torrens gr for John Walker Terrence. That is
all in the envelope. That's the missage.
Speaker 3 (39:41):
So and one of the things that I I what
did I just see there that I thought, wow, okay,
So the geospatial image interpretation, what is that?
Speaker 5 (39:50):
What is that?
Speaker 4 (39:52):
That's the eyes in the sky that Robert Abel helped
get the process of getting into the satellites.
Speaker 5 (40:01):
And so because Stephen.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
Yes, yes, what's his name? He knew about.
Speaker 5 (40:06):
Steven Stephen Dohurst.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
I was just going to say he was a professor
at Arizona State University, which is one of the places
that Jack was a security guard at.
Speaker 5 (40:16):
In the nineties.
Speaker 3 (40:18):
It had indicated that that was his job basically, was
to make identification of photographs and for such situations.
Speaker 4 (40:27):
Because they're constantly especially at the time, and I'm going
like this, I'm trying to see my hand, this is
this is above the earth. You can't see if you
can't hear it. Sometimes there's the jets at the time
that were flying above and if they were tracking some people,
which there was on drugs, a lot of complicated things. Anyways,
this would eventually get to people like Stephen Doohurst, who'll
(40:50):
be asked, you know, can you identify this and see
what you got? And so with the proper identification after
steering at something for animal, yeah, this is later to
longitude bla blah blah.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Well, I see what I did. Then I actually put
the work after this solve. So I just placed it.
Speaker 5 (41:10):
On the wrong side.
Speaker 3 (41:12):
Here's you picking apart all that different information from that envelope,
signing it a number and then once you win a GRANMT,
you then turn around and mark which number that letter was.
Speaker 5 (41:23):
That was taken from the original information.
Speaker 4 (41:26):
Now I saved my I say what I called the
puzzle pieces too. If you saw that, you'd be like
calling me name, saying how do you work like that?
But I don't know processes, I.
Speaker 5 (41:39):
Beg I don't even begin to understand.
Speaker 3 (41:43):
All right, Well that brings us onto our next.
Speaker 6 (41:49):
On the on the cover, on the envelope writes out
San Francisco Chronicle, but on the addressing rights Francisco, California.
Speaker 7 (42:01):
But cal That's that was That told me right then
and there, And you know what, And Innette, I looked
at these, I looked at the ones you'd asked me
to do recently, and it's like I would start to do.
Speaker 4 (42:12):
Them and there would be a fire or something would happen.
I'd have to run. So anyways, I'm finally getting I
was glad to get to that one. I know, I
saw that what.
Speaker 5 (42:22):
Was the lights out? What what was that.
Speaker 4 (42:27):
Lights out? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (42:30):
I thought I thought you said lights out and no one,
Oh no, oh okay, lights out.
Speaker 5 (42:39):
Well here's another murder that happened in Irvine.
Speaker 3 (42:42):
I removed it because there was that discovery and match
in DNA that yielded Sacramento County a suspect named Joseph
James DeAngelo, and that was Janelle Li Sacruz and Irvine.
So we've I literally had already excluded this as a
p it's a case as a possible for Jack. But
again at the time, I believed it to be unsolved,
(43:04):
and I had placed every unsolved murder that I thought
of into this presentation.
Speaker 5 (43:09):
So I thought of or should I say.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
Found May seventh of nineteen eighty six, there's an article
written again something I don't have a copy of, but
it was something I found in the FOYA files, and
it says maybe these strings of newspaper articles stirred the Zodiac.
So the headline reads old murders of peninsulins still a puzzle.
And then on May eighth, nineteen eighty six, article probably
(43:34):
the same day as the next letter or around the
time of the letter for the Zodiac, and the headline
read murders still haunt.
Speaker 5 (43:43):
Him because he had no proof? By Dave Murphy.
Speaker 3 (43:46):
So I'm wondering if these particular articles coming out in
the newspaper were something that the zodiac saw, so he thought, oh,
let me, you know, tiptoe back into the water of
communications and murders. On May twenty fourth, and nineteen eighty
we had Shelley Kathleen Sykes. She disappeared on I forty
five on her way home to Texas City. Her car
was found blood splattered and the windshields smashed in. John
(44:10):
Robert King, and Gerald Peters Worst were charged with aggravated
kidnapping in this case because there was no body to
charge for the murder. So evidently we have some remains
that are missing, but they believe they found the people
who had killed her. And this is probably one of
the few times that a murder charge or a conviction
(44:30):
can come down when they don't even have a body.
Speaker 5 (44:33):
I mean, how often does that happen.
Speaker 4 (44:36):
I think I have something on Sykes, but it has
something to deal with unfortunately. Robert Abele again, Yeah, so,
and Jack is at the time, I think getting a
lot of him and his crew are just getting information. Sorry,
it's makes you shake your head.
Speaker 3 (44:59):
Everything about this makes me shake my head. So in
nineteen eighty six, right nineteen eighty six, we have summer
It's as summer of eighty six front yard on Kirby
our house Jack and Down. So we see that Jack
and Down are back together once again, and I believe
at this particular point in time that they are.
Speaker 5 (45:18):
Both living in the Roseville area, and.
Speaker 3 (45:22):
Dawn had originally been in the Riverside area, which is
where Jack returned to in nineteen sixty six when he
came back from his stay in Texas where he was
supposed to rent two mobile homes.
Speaker 5 (45:36):
August third of nineteen.
Speaker 3 (45:37):
Eighty six, we have a twenty to thirty year old
unidentified dead mail on Crater Lake off Crater Road, FM
thirty eighty three, Conrod, Texas. So again more murders in
that Conroe area. The body had been weighted down by
two cinderblocks and on an electrical cord, multiple gunshot wounds,
possibly had a street name of New York. Billy shirt
(45:58):
had mss US eight DASH zero one seven eight dash
two five Wilson written on the label inside. So I'm
not sure if that is a military number. I don't
recognize it to be, but I'm not up on my
military numbers or a prison inmate number, because in either case,
(46:23):
I would think that you would probably have identified or
written things on the tags of your clothing.
Speaker 5 (46:33):
Yeah, mental hospital.
Speaker 3 (46:36):
The individual was five foot six inches, one hundred and
thirty three pounds, small build, collar length, red, red slash,
brown hair, decayning teeth, left ear was pierced.
Speaker 5 (46:47):
Left upper arm had a tattoo Liz.
Speaker 3 (46:50):
Left forearm has a small devil with a tail figure
on it, and right upper arm had a tattoo that
said baby Dawn and had a petal flame flower design.
So I did not find a picture on it, though
I would have liked to, just to be able to
show those tattoos and see if somebody you know now
recognizes or recalls or maybe even has any pictures in
(47:12):
their belongings of family members or people from back in
the day that might have matching tattoos. So we're going
to see a pickup in crimes in Texas and and
Sacramento as a matter of fact. So September twenty sixth
of nineteen eighty six, Laura Lee Tremley was going to
(47:33):
a bus stop. I don't have any idea where this
was actually at. She was fifteen years old. Many of
these victims were children taken from or on their way
to bus stops. She was strangled. She was strangled. Anthony
Allen Shore is said to be the suspect in that
particular case. But on September twenty seventh, nineteen eighty six,
we have sixteen year old Dianna Lynn Ogg seventeen thousand
(47:56):
block of Old Houston Road in Conrod, Texas seen at
a convenience store located on FM thirteen fourteen at Sordiers Road.
Porter A seven PM. Body is found in a heavily
wooded area off a logging road. But this is very
similar to the Laura Miller case Tim Miller's daughter, where
she was at a convenience store, taken and then dumped
(48:18):
in an area well off the beaten path.
Speaker 5 (48:24):
October twelfth, nineteen eighty six.
Speaker 3 (48:25):
Kathleen Thomas and Rebecca Andandowski on Colonial Parkway in Virginia
was strangled with their throats cut, found in a car
pushed down an embankment. November twenty fourth, nineteen eighty six.
Teresa don Clark, Sacramento. The contact for this person is
joe Enlow for anybody who has information. She was last
(48:46):
seen buying groceries at Albertson's on eighth East eighth Street.
Environmental toxicology study from UC Davis and Sacramento.
Speaker 5 (48:54):
Was on a job interview for this place.
Speaker 6 (48:57):
Pool its leveast eighth street.
Speaker 5 (49:02):
What's that?
Speaker 2 (49:02):
I have never heard of street? Odd?
Speaker 3 (49:10):
I well, this is information we've got to remember. I'm
getting from stuff on the internet, and who knows how
correct that absolutely is.
Speaker 5 (49:20):
But it says she plays pool at a club.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
And then goes grocery shopping. Some of her clothes were
found in Sacramento. Her backpack was dumped near Mace Boulevard
overpass on I eighty. Body was found in Yolo Bypass,
badly beaten. Badly beaten was not on the murder map
for bets. And then the Zodiac basically goes silent after
(49:42):
this particular uh murder. But it's interesting to note that
they're finding her property in locations along the freeway again,
because that's another Zodiac thing or another moo in some
of these yep leaving the trail and you know, a
backpack here, a purse there, these kind of things all
(50:02):
over the place. December eighth, nineteen eighty six, twenty nine
year old Rita May Hughes Houston, Texas bus station went missing.
Speaker 5 (50:11):
White.
Speaker 3 (50:11):
Oh, we were overtime, guys. We're at fifty twenty five.
Right now, I gotta same today, we'll come back and
finish off this last murder. I want everybody to enjoy
their Fourth of July weekend. I hope the holiday is
great for you, and we will see you the following Friday.
Speaker 5 (50:27):
Thank you guys for being here.
Speaker 4 (50:30):
Bye bye
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