Live Interview With My Familiar!

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Speaks to the bards the first together.

Speaker 2 (01:01):
Hey, everybody, Welcome back to hit Point, an anime new show,
a JRPG news show, a niche new show, a show
where Baku and I will be talking about anything and
everything that catches our interest and or ire. We stream
live every single Sunday at seven pm Central eight pm
Eastern Time. Will be previewing some pretty cool trailers, including
a worldwide hang On, hang On, a worldwide premiere of

(01:25):
a very cool trailer that you'll be very excited to see.
And we'll also be interviewing a developer of an upcoming
indie RPG called My Familiar. It might be something that
you might have heard a little bit about but once
or twice before. And that is, in fact, where the
intro theme of today's show came from is the trailer

(01:47):
from one of their earlier videos that.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
Was so cool. Baku, how are you doing, man? I
am doing great, other than my nose because allergy is
just kicking my butt. Yeah, the nose is difficult. That's allergy, Man.
Allergy is killing me. I'm taking In case anyone's wondering, yes,
I am taking meds. By the way, I want to

(02:13):
ask fairly early I had recently made some changes to
my mic, and so if I'm still sounding a little low,
please let us know. I'm trying my best here to
try to fix this thing. But yeah, but other than that,
things are going well. I bought myself a new little
fat head that I can attach to the MIC, and

(02:34):
hopefully that will solve some problems. Nice.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
Well, that's super cool. By the way, I did forget
to mention at the top of the show that we
will also be responding to super chats at the end
of the show. That's That's one of the other things
that I'm usually supposed to say when I nail the intro.

Speaker 3 (02:50):
But but that did not necessarily do. Uh. Yeah, that's
not something that I did this time.

Speaker 4 (02:56):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
I just like to change it up every now and then,
like we changed up our theme song. Yeah, I'm just
going to co opt that from now on. But uh
but yeah, that was in fact the cover of House
of the Rising Sun.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
Oh man, So yeah, I.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Guess, uh, I guess at this point, Baku, what did't
you got going on this week? Did you do anything
anything fun? Anything cool?

Speaker 3 (03:20):
Let's see what did I do?

Speaker 2 (03:22):
Oh, Today's Easter? I forgot to mention that happy.

Speaker 3 (03:25):
Easter, Happy Easter, everybody. Yeah, well, I I have a
really big interview coming up. Oh as a matter of fact,
for new Jobs.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
So well, oh you know, okay, I was gonna say
I have a pretty big interview coming up, but it's
tonight during our show.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
Oh that's that's the other big interviews. So imagine how
uh you know, how how how excited I am for
all these crazy things happening.

Speaker 5 (03:54):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
But there's a lot of preparation for this interview and
also the one afterwards, so you know, hopefully we can
get this. So good vibes only tonight. Yeah, send me
all your all your best vibes, send me your best
vibes absolutely. All right.

Speaker 2 (04:12):
Well, I didn't really have a whole lot going on
this week. I was just been swamped with work and
didn't actually end up getting to put out JBG Weekly Update,
this video or this week.

Speaker 3 (04:22):
So that's on me. But that's all right.

Speaker 2 (04:26):
Let's go ahead and shift gears here. I think it's
I think we've kept him waiting long enough. Let's go
ahead and bring on today's interview.

Speaker 3 (04:35):
Wee e, there we go.

Speaker 6 (04:38):
It is.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
Aka Chinsey. You might have heard us referring to Chinsey
often on and off throughout that we finally learned today
he does have an in fact, a real name. Welcome
producer Executive producer of Chinsey, Inc.

Speaker 3 (04:54):
Preston. It's good to see you and good to have
you on the show.

Speaker 6 (04:59):
Hey, yeah, thanks for having me, guys. I know it's
a long road to get me here, but you guys
did it.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
Congratulations ladies and gentlemen, we got him. Oh man, so oh,
and there's a Tyler in the chat. Good to see
you guys. So yeah, it's good to see it, good
to have you on. But before we actually start going
through our exhausted list of a thousand questions, and I

(05:29):
do have a lot of questions because well, i'll preface this.
A couple of weeks ago, Baku and I got a
chance to actually get hands on with a special demo
of My Familiar and it has been living rent free
in my head ever since. And and I cannot wait
to like dive in and pick the brain of the

(05:50):
person behind all of this, because this is just it's
just been so wild. But let's go ahead and watch
the trailer together, just so that the audience, if you've
somehow missed it. I don't know why you would have
missed it. But if you somehow missed that demo that
we got to play together, uh, this this will give you.

Speaker 3 (06:07):
A good idea of what to expect.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
This is, by the way, this is the worldwide premiere
trailer in case you didn't catch the guys, I.

Speaker 4 (06:20):
Mean worldwide premiere city where everyone gets busy because wait,
share something like six ranting, changing hands like pamphlets, government
case seem to understand it.

Speaker 3 (06:32):
God, look at that pixelar man future.

Speaker 6 (06:35):
It's for the shoot. It's an alcohol This is mega
ran by the way. You know sitilar core wrapper manus.

Speaker 3 (06:42):
Oh that's awesome.

Speaker 4 (06:43):
Man, you'll make it up the ladder, but you better
get away before your dome gets flated. Everybody got a plan.
Who they cross in the mouth When the damas right
in front of them, they run in the house. Make
a wish.

Speaker 2 (06:54):
Watching back through all of these fights right here is
just like going down memory lane. No possible to feel
nostalgic for like a few weeks ago.

Speaker 6 (07:06):
I think it is now where things are going in
the world, Like you know, yeah we learned futes ago.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
Yeah, I feel that.

Speaker 4 (07:18):
Yeah, they know who we are.

Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah, and there's Chinzy a endgame chintzy.

Speaker 6 (07:24):
Because they know who we are.

Speaker 4 (07:25):
The Deed took a spell and then the Pump first
looked he was clumsy boy, broken the laws. Now he's
crapped out on the street shelf covered in gauze. Behind
you climb, it's the harder you fall. They can't protect
your rights if they don't exist at all. Man, another day,
you wish city were the poor getting bored? Didn't the

(07:45):
Fitch get bit?

Speaker 2 (07:48):
So we never actually got to play with the other
characters yet.

Speaker 3 (07:53):
To see them here.

Speaker 6 (07:57):
To add some new footage and there where it is
getting in the process of kind of like updating another trailer.
You know in the next couple of months that I
could give some content creators or some sneak peek the
next couple of characters future hands on it. I'll let
y'all know. Whenever we got that bill rolling.

Speaker 3 (08:14):
Around Heck yeah, yeah, okay, what's okay?

Speaker 2 (08:25):
First question has to be what's what the avocado?

Speaker 6 (08:27):
Uh?

Speaker 3 (08:28):
That's the strangest Uh. There he is Okay. I had
to get him back before he ran out of oxygen.
That's that was scary.

Speaker 6 (08:41):
Kind of like how in games you have you tie
in your your own unique branded items and whatnot. And
I think that like that is actually called a glock pop. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (08:50):
It is just like a.

Speaker 6 (08:52):
Like a our version of an elixir, a single party,
a single person elixir. And it just you know, had
some text X of course no one's going to eat
you know, a frozen avocato.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
Well, so you think you might have just started a trend.

Speaker 6 (09:08):
Well, I'm not going to be the first one to
market with that one.

Speaker 3 (09:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:14):
Oh man, well man, that game was so much fun
to play through. It has such a fun mix of
of like the I want to say, like kind of
almost super Mario RPGs, like timing based button presses to
like do extra damage or the follow up kind of
hits and stuff.

Speaker 3 (09:31):
And the sprites are big and beautiful.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
It's such a I already gushed about this game for
so long during our playthrough women, but man, it has
just left quite the impression. So man, yeah, all right,
all right, I'll start asking, I guess what inspired you

(09:54):
to create Chinzy Ink and to start developing this this
monstrosity of of this Buddy cup Issa Kai Fish out
of Water, nineties cartoon mishmash what how?

Speaker 6 (10:11):
Well, first, well, I'm saying that I thought that rpugs
were going to be smaller scope than this. So I thought, oh,
I'll just do an RPG for my first one, right,
Oh well, But once I started getting into it, it's
like I couldn't imagine making any other kind of game. Like,
I don't want to just be a game dev. I

(10:33):
want to be in a turn based RPUG game dev
because these are the games that really like hit home
with me. Like I grew up as a latchkey kid
in the eighties and the nineties. Oh yeah, video games
were just everything. I'm sure everybody else in this chandos too.
It's just like it's like a portal to another world.
You learn from reading books and you know, watching movies,

(10:54):
but video games is like kind of like the sum
of all art, the kind of like peak where you
get be you know, involved. And so I just knew
that I wanted to be a part of video game industry.
I just didn't know at where to approach and so like,
and how to even get involved. What skills did I
need to kind of get started? So like I just

(11:14):
kind of like looked at some of these other indies
that were coming out now back when I was started looking,
it was more like Undertail. Yeah, the landscape has already
changed so much since then. I mean Undertail now compared
to some of these other indies that are out like
Chained Echoes and Kingdom of the Dumps and just you know,
see the Stars, It's just it's a whole another level. So,

(11:37):
like I just saw this like renaissance period of everyone
was getting in and just making their dream game and
doing the thing that they wanted to do with their life.
And right before the pandemic, I was like, you know what,
I want to be there, So I want to I
want to get this ball rolling. I want to see
I'm no longer content with playing games. I want to
get out there and make a game.

Speaker 3 (11:57):
I want to be to be a player in the
in the larger game, so to speak.

Speaker 6 (12:03):
Exactly. It just a place I don't have to be
the best or whatever, but I want to leave my
mark in my story and you know, and essentially make
the game that I wanted to play since a kid
and as an adult but just doesn't exist anymore.

Speaker 3 (12:19):
Well, it looks like you're off to a fantastic start.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
I don't know if like you're achieving exactly what you
set out for, But man, I think whatever. Based on
my playthrough of the demo, it feels like you're onto
something really special and and everybody who's here please be
sure to go wish list my familiar. We have a
link in the description of the video, but I'll also
post a link here into the chat, or maybe Baku

(12:43):
can if he's got a second.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
I got it.

Speaker 2 (12:46):
So, how did your collaboration with like something Classic actually
get started and sword Monkey Games and how is it
working across multiple teams like this? How did how did
all this kind of come about?

Speaker 6 (12:59):
Well? So this is actually I could probably talk for
an hour just on this one subject, just because there's
so many moving pieces. Like when they say networking is everything, Yeah,
in the indie space, it really is. And I know
that some people who have all the talents in their
wheelhouse and on their belt and tools on their belt,
that they can just sit back and do it all themselves.
But you know, for me, for someone who's outside of

(13:23):
this industry, who had a clear idea clear budget and
those kind of things, but I didn't have the talent.
I knew it pretty early on that I was going
to need to reach out in network and find some
of these key players for these keystone kind of like
roles that I was going to need to tell the
scope of the story that I wanted this title essentially,
So I reached out. I was actually just doing some

(13:46):
research and I was reading what was it, reverse design
right here, you'll do a little book plug from a
buddy here, Patrick Holloman. I was just reading some of
his reverse design game game design books, kind of getting
a feel for like what kind of skills I needed
to list of what type of of you know, players

(14:07):
I needed in the game to create all these moving pieces,
you know. So I reached out to him through his
contact information, and he happened to be making a video
game of their own. So he was partnered up with
Something Classic, who also shares member with Sword Monkey Studios,
who's they are programmers from from Canada. Yeah, you know,

(14:27):
America's hat and we're They were already had that synergy,
they were already working on a game. They'd already done
Shadows of Adam together. So, like, I was very lucky
to kind of meet them at the point that they
were at their game development where they were willing to
take on some more work and sort of you know,

(14:49):
use working for my game to help fund some of
their game, and it just kind of seemed to share
technology and just kind of riff back and forth and
test each other's games. It just was like a perfect fit.
Kind of one of those really weird, serendipitous kind of
moments where That's why I say networking is everything, because
if you don't find your right people, or if you're

(15:09):
not the right person, but just keep moving. There's so
many talented people in this space, especially.

Speaker 3 (15:14):
Now, it is surprising.

Speaker 6 (15:16):
I know, there's just so many people out there that
are just amazing talents that could do any one of
these roles. And so like, if you don't have the
right group, keep looking. You'll find them. You just got
to keep on, you know, making the thing that you enjoy,
and you know, finding the people who are in the
space that are also making those same kind of moves
that reach out. Don't be afraid. I mean I have

(15:38):
anxiety and a lot of other issues, but like, send
an email. You know, you don't have to go face
to face, you don't have to just go down to
a calm, just send an email. If you like someone's book,
send an email if you like someone's art. Who knows
those conversations lead all kinds of crazy places that end
up you know some of my now fast friends and
work colleagues.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
Yeah, well it's really wild seeing such like beautiful games
coming out in the indie space at this point. Like
you said, it's a completely different game than it was
when like Undertail first came out. Undertail was, you know,
foundational in a lot of ways, but it's not exactly
like the best looker if you like put it up

(16:19):
in a lineup against like a lot of modern indie RPGs.
It's it's very kind of uh, subdued or coint in
some ways as far as like the visual presentation. But
like the people out there that you can find that
can do these incredible pieces of pixel art, it's like
it's like this this talent or skill that was like

(16:40):
on a once in a generational beautiful thing you could
see and maybe on a Superintendo or PlayStation. It's like
now like there are so many people who are able
to do such fantastic, phenomenal creative work.

Speaker 3 (16:53):
So like it's just.

Speaker 2 (16:55):
Yeah, anyways, it's just wild how many more people there
are today that can do this sort of thing than
I ever expected. Uh and uh yeah, I don't know
where I was going with that other than just like days.

Speaker 6 (17:08):
It's everywhere, like you have access to talented people from Brazil,
in Russia, China and Japan. It's just like everyone's all
these people converging all these mutual you know, creative spaces nowadays.
And it's just besides being on a different time schedule.
If you can make the work, you could hire anybody.
You could kind of Swiss army knife your best perfect

(17:31):
dream team if you have the budget and if you
have the time and you find the right people.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
So what's the story behind the name of your studio
Chenzy Inc? I Because like I know that there's a
Chenzy character who came first, the chicken or the egg?
I guess that's the question here.

Speaker 6 (17:53):
The Chintzy or the ink. Huh yeah, Chenzy for sure.
Like the company name came after my familiar had had
its kind of identity, and so like, you know, we're
pretty much making the company just to have your game
hosted for Steam. You know, it's my company is literally
just me, yeah, you know, And I freelance art to

(18:16):
I have freelance contracts with artists all over the place.
But it is Tensey's anxious me. You just happened to
be one of those characters that, like, we made him
earlier in pre production, and I just gravitated towards him
because he's kind of like the what is it like
the Turks and Final Fantasy seven, the kind of like
group that follows you and harasses you. They're not really

(18:38):
top tier threats. They're more just like kind of an
annoyance that sometimes become bigger threats over time. And I
just like the idea of, like my company mascot being
this instead of being like some wise person or someone
to give you an enchanted sword, it's just some jerk
who kind of follows the heroes around it kind of
gives them a hard time. So think that to me

(18:59):
fits my personality more. Not that I'm exactly a shirt,
but I'd like to push buttons and I like to
see how the player reacts. And that's sure interesting to
me than you know, looking like a you know, being
a Merlin, so to speak. No morelins here, just just chanceies.

Speaker 3 (19:16):
It makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 2 (19:18):
I mean they say that like to be a good
like dungeon master in the in the Realm of d
and d if you're if you're you know, into that
is Uh. For the DM is to to make problems,
not solutions, And it feels like that's the perfect role
for a game developer. You're just here to throw problems
at people and and that kind of works. Kind ofminds
me of a Sultan Pepoor from from Kronocross as far

(19:40):
as like the the people who just show up to
harass you all the time.

Speaker 6 (19:45):
It's one of my favorite tropes, I think. And with
my familiar we get to lean into all the tropes
that normally you're trying to like avoid, like the plague.
But with us, it's like just pile on tropes. It's
a buffet of tropes and they all are intersecting with
each other, and we don't even try and like mask
it or hide it.

Speaker 3 (20:00):
We just don't know, you lean into it. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker 4 (20:03):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (20:04):
And I've said it before and I'll say it again,
but I feel like tropes are tropes for a reason.
It's because they're they're crowd pleasers. And as much as
some people like to say that, oh, you know, they're
passe or whatever, it's just you know, I don't think
that's always the case. I think that it's uh, I
think tropes have a solid purpose.

Speaker 6 (20:23):
And especially in the era that I'm leading into, the
eighties and the nineties, pop culture and stuff like it
was nothing but tropes. Duc take to other tropes like
that they were that was entertained with.

Speaker 2 (20:34):
It's it's you know, it's like the the the story
about like the turtle that holds up the earth and
what's underneath the turtle.

Speaker 3 (20:41):
It's just another turtle. It's just tropes all the way down.

Speaker 6 (20:44):
Ropes all the way down for sure.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Uh So, before making my familiar, I mean, this looks
like a incredibly complex game.

Speaker 3 (20:54):
What did you do before this?

Speaker 2 (20:55):
Like, did you have you had any prior experience in
game dev before my familiar? Like, because this this looks
like and it and it feels like when you're playing
it a very well developed and well rounded sort of system.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
Have you have you done this before? Because I didn't
find anything.

Speaker 6 (21:14):
Absolutely not. I this is this is my first entry
into game dev, and I kind of picked up, you know,
bit off like one of the biggest asks that you
can do, you know, creating like RPGs, which are turn
based rpugils are like three games hot, Yeah, together to
be one giant game. So I've never done anything like that.

(21:36):
I've done projects, larger projects, you know, in my own profession,
I do real estate and from a finance background, so
like I've been project manager on a team. I know
what it's like to have all these different moving cogs
and what, but never in this industry. So I mean
it kind of gave me an advantage learning how to
run a team, which I think that maybe like a
lot of indie deavs don't have because they're usually by

(21:57):
themselves or they're like not used to running the team themselves,
of being like a cog in the machine as opposed
to the person at the top. So it gave me
a lot of insight to find the right people. That's
I think my number one job is to find the
right people to make this game the best version of
itself that it can be. That's kind of like my trustament,
no ego, nobis just like we don't have this, who

(22:21):
do I need to get this? And luckily for me,
I was able to find a Patrick Collman Sword Monkey
Guys and Something Classic Guys and him Windorf who is
my creative director, so like he's had experience working you know,
managing teams and whatnot before, So I like to lean

(22:44):
I put the right people in the right position, and
then I lean on their experience and then I just
try and hover over them, but not too much to
where you know, it affects productivity and whatnot. So this
is a new experience. But I'm actually hoping, hoping that
this is you know, a door through the industry, because
I would love to be here. It's a lot of stress,

(23:04):
but I have a lot of stress in my day
job too, so I'm used to high stress situations, high risk,
high reward, and so I feel at home. And this
is something I'm passionate about. Real estate. You're not passionate
about every house you see, every people land you see,
you know, finances, you're not really thrilled about every you know,
every investment or especially in hindsight, right, But with this,

(23:29):
I'm proud of everything from the ground up. We built
it from scratch, and I think that we've built something
that's pretty amazing, you know that in the in the
indie space, something that's competing for the same shelves as
some of these bigger, newer rpugs that are swinging for
the fences that have these massive teams that have done
this forever. So I feel like I'm honored to have

(23:51):
the right people to kind of help me make this
big push. And I think it helps that you choose
a career that you're passionate, and if not, then move
that passion something else, you know, and find that career,
find something, keep moving. Don't be afraid to fail upwards
or downwards or whatever, because through failure you pick yourself up.
I mean when I first started doing this, I didn't

(24:11):
immediately hire a team. I thought, oh my gosh, I'm
going to beat make the mixed undertail. I've never made music,
I've never drawn a single sprite, but I'm going to
do it right. I'm going to go over there for
a year come out the other side. And got two
three months into it, I was like, I cannot do this.
I don't have the between the ADHD, the lack of expertise.
It's just making the game program wise. Isn't my passion

(24:34):
Drawing pictures, making story outlines, meeting new people, creating larger
you know, a large that's that's my passion. I want
to be in the industry in a bad way. I
want to be there and I want to be working
in the you know, in the trenches with people I respect,
and making something that we all you know, you know,
or just thrilled to create through the blood, sweat and tears.

(24:56):
Because life's hard, works hard, you might as well put
those sweat and tears into something that that you're proud
of and yeah, that you're proud of at the end
of the day.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
Absolutely couldn't have sent it better myself. Oh that, So,
let's let's shift gears a little bit and talk a
little bit about like the game design process that you
guys have been going through for my familiar Uh. I
already kind of touched on this before, about like how
it feels reminiscent of like Super Mario RPG with the
time button attacks, but also like in like how large

(25:26):
the sprites are, and just like, man, I could gush
for a while, I'm trying to hold back, but how it's.

Speaker 6 (25:34):
One of those things that you're gushing about are they
have a lot of purpose behind it too, Like the
Sprights were very much inspired by more like the Capcom
style fighter games instead of traditional RPGs, because we wanted
to go bigger and go better, you know.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
Yeah, well, I Baco noticed this. I didn't even notice
it at first. How Actually the player characters are displayed
on the left facing to the right during combat, which
you know, in my mind is like, oh yeah, that
makes sense because it's kind of like, you know, like
a beat him up r or not a beat them
up RPG, but like a beat them up from like

(26:09):
you know, you progress from left to the screen to
the right of the screen and like and that kind
of in a way looks like a beat them up
but with turn based mechanics, which is super interesting. But
it's so it works so well, but it's so counter
to like the typical like everybody on the right facing
to the left, Like I don't I don't know why

(26:30):
we have that sort of weird convention in the RPG space,
but but yeah, what are your I guess how did
you go about like balancing the the the gameplay here
with this, because it feels pretty well balanced as well
just from the demo at least.

Speaker 6 (26:49):
Well first of all, with like the sprites, you know,
they're more like catcom style, Like we we don't have
the CRT filters, so we wanted to go big and
go or go home with like the big squishy sprites.
We want to to be in elevation out. I didn't
want this to just be you know, a reimagined or
I didn't want to be just a you know, a
retelling of like the older kind of stories. And I
don't want to have to be you know, strict about

(27:12):
the limitations, which those games kind of were made by
the limitations at the time. So now that we don't
have those same technical limitations, I kind of wanted to
just do what you would expect if these you know,
great artists had these technology to do these kind of things,
Like what what decisions would they have made? And we
wanted to do just do like more like I guess

(27:35):
the idea is hyper polished, smooth, buttery systems. I don't
want to reinvent the wheel. I just wanted to be
a good time our Our game is more about style
and vibe and having fun and forward momentum. I didn't
want to like be so worried about like paying homage
to like the the shoulders of the Giants were standing

(27:57):
on that we're afraid to like, you know, going a
new and interesting way, and especially with all these RPGs
that are out, a new game's coming out it doesn't
hurt to have on your own style, and you really
kind of have to swing for a fence to differentiate yourself,
even your left to right thing. Like sometimes those things
are just kind of like we're so used to RPGs
with this language being told in this certain way that

(28:18):
something like that kind of throws you off. And then
at first you're like, I don't know how I feel
about this, but by the time you've kind of got
used to it a couple of battles, you're like, Okay,
I dig this, I get what this is coming from.
I totally am over it. It's like reading like me
reading a manga, you know, like oh yeah, like I
have to read this way. Well, now I don't have
to play a Western rpug this way.

Speaker 3 (28:40):
Yes, I was gonna say it might have something to
do with that, Derek, because like how term base a
lot of it came from Japan, and then the books
are written from that right, that does make sense, right,
And yeah, now the English language is left to right,
so actually makes sense. I think for most people that

(29:03):
would make sense unless you're just you know, like a
long time like RPG player would be like wait, hold
on this, like that kind of yeah, but I don't think. Yeah,
it reminded me of so after after our play through
the few weeks ago, I was talking about and was like, man,
it'd be so cool if like, at the end, if
he ever so this is Anaikai, by the way, and

(29:25):
if the character ever happens to exit the isakai area,
if it flips back to being like right to left again,
just just randomly at the end, like in the in
the real world that's right to left, but in the
Isakai it's left to right. I don't know.

Speaker 6 (29:39):
That's kind of like a mirror world situation. Actually, I
remember whenever you said that, I remember writing it down
like that when people say some fun interesting ideas and
we just kind of throw them on a piece of
paper and we'll revisit them if it makes sense, because
things like that really are kind of fun, you know,
just things that like you don't think of until someone else.

(29:59):
It's kind of like going read it. You know, someone's
already said a comment that's way funnier than you could
every week before you get there, Like, yeah, the same
one joke, and it's already been said ten different ways.
So like having that kind of like you can watching
people have the feedback back from the games they play.
You'd be surprised how many devs are just sitting there like,

(30:19):
h hmmm, what did he say? With paper and ready
to just like you know, I love that steal preemptively,
you know, I don't think you're stealing.

Speaker 3 (30:28):
Still like an artist, yea.

Speaker 2 (30:29):
You guys offered it up right, Yeah, still like an artist,
but totally offered it.

Speaker 6 (30:33):
Up exactly inspired by.

Speaker 2 (30:36):
Yes, exactly inspired by So you know. It also reminds
me of a phrase that you know, none of us
are as smart as all of us. And I think
that also ties into a lot to like your method
of like building a team of people who have, like
their areas of expertise and drawing upon that rather than
just like forcing no, this is how I want it
and and that's so cool and it seems to be

(30:59):
working really well. So, what's like one of the more
toughest challenges that you've had to overcome so far in
this development? I assume that you might have encountered a
few tough challenges tackling a whole new brand, nude beast
of game development. Huh, And what are you most proud of?

Speaker 6 (31:18):
Honestly, there's so much to be proud of. There's so much,
Like the game industry is so infinitely complex, and it's
so many, so many moving pieces, and it's so hard
to even get ahead of it or even to say, ah,
I know what this is going because technology is always changing,
you know, cultural trends are always changing. All these things

(31:39):
that direct the game industry this way or that are
just happening and happening so fast now, so I don't
think you really can you know, get ahead of that
kind of thing, you know. So all right, So what
was the question again?

Speaker 3 (31:57):
I just challenges that you've overcome, that you're proud of.

Speaker 6 (32:02):
Okay, too many challenges, I guess it's so many. I
could sit here and talk for another hour too.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
So I'll just go we have hours for you. Just
just just so you're aware, we have hours for you.

Speaker 6 (32:16):
No, I haven't give me a handful of hours tonight.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
Sorry guys, all right, morning kidding, No, go ahead, sir.

Speaker 6 (32:25):
But like the hardest part I think so. Also, there's
like a coin, you know, the other side of the
coin to having you can hire artists from all over
the world, hire the best of the craft, that kind
of thing. The other side of that coin is that
there's different time periods and people are going through different
things in your life culturally, physically, mentally, you know, just

(32:49):
trying to keep everyone on the same ball and kind
of on the same page across all of that throughout years,
and most of us are like, have a day job,
a full time job. Even where I'm transitioning out of
mind to where this is my familiar, I'm full time there.
You know, I bear well have to go and check
my investments and stuff. It's the point where I'm trying

(33:10):
to put as much energy into this right now. But
the first four years of production and pre production and
whatnot wasn't the case. You know, we all have our
day jobs, and even these devs, they all have multiple
projects they're working on Quartet and Forge the Fay, and
sometimes we share artists and sometimes we share tech. So
there's just all these moving pieces to where it's infinitely beneficial.

(33:33):
But because there's so many moving pieces, it's so hard
to get everyone on the same page the same schedule.

Speaker 4 (33:39):
And so.

Speaker 6 (33:41):
My most proud achievement, I think, is building this team out.
Like you know, it's not the game is itself is great,
but the game itself is great is because of the
team that I've built. And I say, I like, I
built it like you know, like Teddy war Box over
here with like a real road tycoon type situated. No,
it's like I found these people who were also you know,

(34:04):
pursuing their dreams and putting the band together exactly. It
was looks like a like a heist movie. You know, yeah,
the Son of a Gun I'm in you know, like
that that kind of moment where and so like it,
it was very chaotic until I found the right people.
And then the more people you find that you're your tribe,

(34:27):
it becomes more crystal clear, and before you know it,
you've built something really substantial. And then you'll have built
the vertical slice and that's really substantial. And so I
think having all of those moving pieces and trying on
all these different hats. Sometimes you wear a new hat
for the day, like trying to set up Kickstarter pages

(34:47):
or this that kind of thing. Everything is a brand
if you've never done it before, it's a brand new job.
There's someone out there that specializes in that thing. They've
done it for months, years, whatever. So like game development
scene to be for me as a producer more about
all the things I never imagined about being in the
industry is my reality. Then the things that like kind

(35:08):
of drew me to the industry in the first place.

Speaker 4 (35:11):
You know.

Speaker 6 (35:11):
It's like I'm down there, you know, in the pipes
and stuff, with the grease on my face, like just
running this paper over to this person. Like I'm not
a producer. I am like a grunt at the bottom,
but I'm also a producer at the top. I'm like
a person climbing the ladders in between. It's like burger
time over here. I'm just like trying to hit the
patty at the right time and capture this saucage. You know,

(35:32):
it's the social improving things that it's just chaos incarnate.
And if you can't embrace that kind of idea of
just like working in that stressful kind of all over
the place with that same kind of morning excitement like hey, okay,
what do I get to do this morning? As opposed
to oh my gosh, I have all these things I
have to do. It really just you know, That's what
I'm most proud of is just like Okay, I wake up,

(35:55):
I have these tasks, new things, but I'm not scared anymore.
You know, just got to put this fire out over here,
draw this picture, write this outline. You know, Like just
being able to move around all these different talented artists
and create something substantial is just you know, the experience
of a lifetime.

Speaker 3 (36:14):
Yeah, we call that servant leadership, and it's it's the thing.
And a lot of people are very proud of being
able to do that, and takes a very special person
to be able to do that. So I just want
to call that out. But also, uh, maybe for some
of the folks who are watching now, Like I mean,
if you've seen our interviews from before, you get a

(36:35):
sense but just hearing the kind of team makeup you
know from from Preston right, Like a lot of these
developers they have their full time jobs, right, and so
when these indie games are taking more time to you know,
come to market, for example, it's like, well what's taking you?

(36:57):
It's like, well, they're not working time, Like you may
forget that these people don't do this full time. We
see a game on Steam, right, Like from a maybe
from a regular consumer standpoint, you see a game on Steam,
You're like, well, that's a game on Steam. And then
Square and access this game on Steam. Capcom is a
game on Steam. The all just games, like I don't

(37:17):
really care from a consumer standpoint, right, yeah, but we've
got to remember that like unlike Square Innex and the
Capcom and the you know ea or whatever companies that
they're going to buy next, Uh, those people are full
time with a giant studio with like people working nine
to five on getting this thing to market. Any games

(37:40):
not so much. And so there lies the passion in
you know, taking a lot longer to reach, like the
goal you know, of actually releasing this thing all the
blessed sweat and tear and like cannot be understated. So

(38:00):
thanks for you know, doing it for some of us
who dream but never you know, actually took the time
to you know, do these things. A lot of us,
I'm sure, like you know, I want to make a game,
but me you know, like and I have said maybe
I have not said it enough to the other indie depths,
but it's just it's inspirational to hear that you have

(38:24):
actually gone and done that, you know, but in a
way that's realistically like feasible, like financially speaking, you know,
it's not like a reckless endeavor right, and so well,
hold on and you're right.

Speaker 6 (38:40):
It can be That's that's another part of the coin though,
is inherently it is kind of reckless to create art.
Is you can do it safer, you can, you can
do it the best you can. You cross all your
p's and dot all your eyes the best you can,
but you can't predicting and at the end of the day,

(39:01):
you don't know how it's going to be received.

Speaker 3 (39:03):
Like, yeah, there's definitely risk.

Speaker 6 (39:07):
The reason they're hard to do is because it's not
a guaranteed investments. If anything, it's the opposite. In the
real estate world, the finance world, the risk rewards are
usually more cut and dry. You know, you have your
your your interest rates, and so to speak, you can
kind of calculate where you're going to be in a
couple of years, you know, making a movie, making a game,

(39:27):
making art, it's like you could go through burn through
your entire budget and might maybe never make a dollar back.
You have to be able to risk it all. You know,
you have to have something to risk as well, whether
that's your time, your blood, sweat, and your tears. That
kind of that's a lot too. You know, you're given
your your your best years to something that who knows
how it's paid off, So like opportunity. Look at game

(39:49):
developers and it's like it's like the typical art kind
of thing, like oh, someone's a musician or that they've
imagined to live like a rock star. Is like, no,
not really, we live like mostly like starving artists. Like
we have to budget our food. Yeah, we budget everything,
you know, like we have to make sure that we
have to budget in an industry that is volatile to budget.

(40:11):
So like, I don't recommend that if you're going to
get into a game and build a game and put
your time and money into it, it just has to
be your passion. It has to like if you're gonna
hit a wall at any point in there and be like,
you know, this just isn't for me. It kind of
it's okay. You don't know that until you get to
that point sometimes too, because you but you know hindsight

(40:33):
looking back, like you have to be able to just
risk it all and lose it all and put everything
on the line to put yourself out there. I think
that maybe other people have different ways of doing it,
but that's just from my position. That seems like to
be my only entry point, Like just got to go
stay around for fifteen twenty years and build these soft

(40:53):
skills to kind of create this thing. Or but in
for an industry who knows what it's going to be like,
or I can get in now. Well, there's this renaissance
period where there's a bunch of amazing artists who are
just you know, willing to put their whole souls into
these games, you know, And so I try to remind people,
even if it's a big budget game, like these are
all our passions, So tread lightly on our passions. It

(41:15):
doesn't mean you can't, you know, give us feedback, you know,
because the feedback is the lifeblood of the indie death.
I mean, that's our QA. Those are quality assurance right there.
You guys testing our game. You guys think we're giving
you a free demo, and it's actually you guys are
giving us free you know, bug fixes and finding all
that kind of stuff that we really can't afford to
do one hundred percent, you know.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
So well, surprisingly I didn't find any bugs. I tried.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
I didn't try that hard. I probably two years ago.
Actually the true story, I think it might have been
just the guys over something classic. They had corte end
my Familiar running at Macfest and now was at MACFESTU
and I found a couple of bugs on my Familiar,
but they were like fixing it like right there, and

(42:01):
then oh yeah, we find it's a bug. But it's
it's so cool guys to be part of that process,
and I think that's the that's the part of the
fun with the indie game culture too. Like you have
these in person meetings with some developers. Sometimes you're able
to talk to them, ask questions, play the game, find bugs.

(42:22):
You see them at work, Like here's the like if
you imagine, like here's the monitor that you play with
right and you're controlling it, you're playing the game. Behind
that monitor is a developer with a laptop looking at
the game code as it's being played, just watching. Yeah,
you let them know. I'm like, hey, sorry, there's like
a bug, there's like a freeze or whatever. They're like,

(42:44):
oh yeah, here monitor da da da dude check is
oh yeah, okay cool, you know, like and then they'll
like reset it for you. So yeah, see if you
can do this again, and like they'll see rhet or not.
You're able to recreate the bug immediately so that they
can like fix it right there, and then it's so cool.
It's so cool. It's an experience.

Speaker 6 (43:01):
And so digital trenches. Man. That's where a lot of
the camaraderie comes from too. Like even if you're not
in your team, Like you see a dev struggling at
some of those events, You're like, hey, man, you need
this tape, you need this screwdriver? What do you need?

Speaker 4 (43:13):
Man?

Speaker 6 (43:13):
You need this screen over here? I can move this over.
Like y'all are all kind of struggling, kind of like
oh yeah, saying zero dollars. I mean, you're paying your
money to be there at most of those events unless
you got selected or whatever, or even just for travel stuff.
So like y'all are all just there because of your passion.
Andy'll are leaning on each other, and that the trenches.

(43:33):
That mentality, it really kind of carries over into the spirit.
I think of some of these games, and we all
just want to see each other succeed, even the ones
that we're competing with directly, I just want them. I
want them to break through the glass ceiling for all
of us. You know, I'm cheering on everybody who's doing
these kind of things. I love to look at things
from a competitor standpoint because I just love businesses and

(43:54):
like looking at them dissecting the you know, your angle
and this and that. But I'm always one of those
people who will be the first person to like, you know,
tell someone my insights and not trying to keep it
to myself or whatever. I just want us all to
do better. I want us get that seat at the
table that I think the indie artists are really you know,

(44:14):
deserving to be a I think.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
It right, you know, like it doesn't competition doesn't have
to be malicious, like it could be a friendly competition
and right, Well, I.

Speaker 2 (44:24):
Was gonna say, I think when we were talking to
what the developer was it Forge of the Fay. They
were saying that it's, uh that indie RPG development at
this point is is collaborative way more than it is competitive,
and uh, and the just it's kind of this kind
of big group effort and in a lot of ways
to just help each other make the best things that

(44:46):
you can.

Speaker 3 (44:47):
Was it a Forge of the Fay or no? Well,
the thing is I think multiple a lot of people
have said that, Yeah, in the view that we've talked
to had similar sentiment like either express like expressly or not,
like we see that one way or another.

Speaker 2 (45:04):
Because Nostalgia's dev definitely also said something along those same lines,
Uh just last week. Yes, So yeah, it's I'm getting
a lot of the same vibes.

Speaker 3 (45:15):
It's like a it's.

Speaker 2 (45:16):
Almost like a weird kind of well, I mean, we're
all kind of weird, but kind of a weird big
family of developers who you know, can kind of lean
on each other's expertise.

Speaker 6 (45:27):
So you mean Forge the Face specifically, you're saying that
we we you know, we we lean on each other
all the time. No only do we share some you know,
key members like our creative director you know, and sword
Monkey and just a bunch of artists and whatnot. Like,
for instance, the tech for My Familiar, like where your
your partner follows you, your ally follows you around. You know,
that started in My Familiar And I was like, hey,

(45:49):
you know, you know David at Forge to the Fay
was like, hey, do you think that we could kind
of like work together and kind of use that kind
of tech and kind of build off each other. And
I was like yeah, for sure, man, Like you know,
go put it in your game, and you know, any
anything that you guys find on y'all's in, you know,
bring it back into ours. And so we help each
other kind of make a better a feature better than

(46:10):
if we were just doing it on our own. It's
kind of like a like Naruto with the Shadow Clones
or something, kind of go out and just like do
a bunch of things and that information you get back
is so key and it's all useful and it's all
not just theoretical. It's like, you know, tested and true
and you're like, hey, this works better than this, and
the programmers just swap that over to your game. You're

(46:30):
using the same programs and stuff. So like it really
there is a lot of that. It's not just camaraderie.
It's just something else, Like it's uh, kind of like
almost a coding bigger than yourself. Like I thought you
were about to say cult, and I was like, exactly,
that's it, where we're like the cult and we're all
just like here, drink the kool aid. Man, this is

(46:52):
good cool aid over you. So it's like like like
help each other.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
Oh man, So speaking of cults, I don't know I
have a good segue here, so beneath the humor and
quirkiness of my familiar there's definitely some kind of.

Speaker 3 (47:10):
Darker narrative edge.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
How how are you kind of balancing these tones?

Speaker 3 (47:16):
Uh? Throughout the game?

Speaker 2 (47:17):
Because it feels like a fun mix of this like
really humorous side of things, but then there's also like
this really very dark undertone of like how the how
the game even starts And I'm not even gonna, you know,
spoil that for anybody who didn't see the demo, but
it's it's it's jarring, and it's like, wow, that's that's

(47:37):
how this starts, and it's it's great.

Speaker 3 (47:40):
Uh. How do you strike that balance? Man?

Speaker 4 (47:45):
Well?

Speaker 6 (47:46):
I think it becomes one of those things where I
have so many sources of like inspiration that they all
kind of like contribute into like a greater, bigger picture.
And I would say my first inspiration, well, when I
think of a turn based arpgen if I think about
it just like the old ones, they're almost to me

(48:07):
as a as a consumer, as a you know, someone
watching and playing, I feel like it's almost like literally
like an anime you're playing through with combat that you
get to so to me, like turn based RPGs, that
are JRPG narratives mixed with anime. They me that's already
kind of like they're they're one of the same, just
different mediums almost totally. And I feel like anime does

(48:32):
this really well. It's one of the things I love
about anime so much is it can be everything. It
could have a universe where things are super goofy and
playful but also super dark and creepy, and like all
that changes is one character or one situation or whatever.
And the art style that allows the room to you
don't know, if it could be goofy, giant eyeballs that

(48:53):
pop up, or blood splatters everywhere. There's just it's almost
like the Western cartoons that they're learning from too, that
you can just make things just you can make up
your own kind of visual language with the anime, you know, kind.

Speaker 3 (49:07):
Of yeah, look.

Speaker 6 (49:10):
And then also I think a lot of inspirations outside
of stuff like RPGs and narrative, the things you would
normally think in an RPG. I would say stuff like
I'm a really big fan of Jim Henson, Oh, like
everything like Labyrinth Love It's dark, crystal like anything that.

Speaker 3 (49:27):
That guy a storyteller, you ever watched that series.

Speaker 6 (49:31):
Oh yeah, yeah, I love I love anthology series of
all kinds, especially the storyteller that kind of so like
those worlds where you weren't really sure even as a kid,
Like I mean, if you look at it now, like
some of that stuff is pretty traumatizing, like oh yeah,
Laborrinth with my kids and it's like I forgot about
like the predator who steal the goblin king who steals

(49:52):
the child, and then the goblins are running around, and
I was like, when I was a kid, we're like, oh,
this is great, like this is the best thing ever.
But now kids are and it's like all dark and
like puppetty and stuff. Oh gosh, I don't know if
I like this. This is uncomfortable to me. My kids
immediately like nope, you know, turn that stuff off. So
I had to fast forward to some of the good parts,
you know, to get them into it. Like see they're fine,

(50:13):
Like you're trying to get your kid to take a
picture of Mickey Mouse at the park or something now.
But unlike those universes, dude, you don't know how to feel.
It's a all up to the character and the person interacting,
the player interacting like some characters are nice and they
look cool and fun, but then they kind of have
this dark element to them where they start to be

(50:34):
creepy and they really don't have the character's best interests.
So that changes the context of it all. And some
of those characters from Jim Henson are both like look
at the sketchies in Dark Crystal, like absolutely horrifying. Oh yeah,
also absolutely hilarious. So it's like this weird like juxtaposition
of these kind of like elements, fantasy elements, and you know,

(50:57):
just I also feel like there's another level of that
kind of with the Eastern and Western. Like I love JRPGs.
We're from the Eastern world and they were so influential
to me, but I also wanted to kind of do
the Western take on that. I mean, what does it
look like from our point of view, not just a
parody like this is Earthbound, which is hilarious in its
own stuff too, but like what if I up the

(51:19):
production value instead of an Earthbound but until the kind
of you know, setting in that more teenage muting ninja
turtle eighties nineties, gut the modern fantasy world.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
You know, I love it, man, I love it.

Speaker 2 (51:32):
So much, you know, and just like looking through this
right now, like so many things are coming to mind,
Like I mean, where the generation and grew up watching Bambi. God,
I think All Dogs Go to Heaven was one of
my favorite movies growing up.

Speaker 6 (51:49):
Dude.

Speaker 3 (51:49):
I watch the ending scene for that the other day
and I was just like, what is this so sad?
Like the whole like our I don't know.

Speaker 2 (51:57):
I feel like I was a lot denser as a
child when it comes to a lot of the like
emotional storytelling. And I was just like, oh yeah, just
like like I see through the sad stuff. Maybe as
a kid that's something that you have to do, I
don't know, Like brave Little toaster.

Speaker 6 (52:15):
Oh, brave little toaster. That that that one alone, Like.

Speaker 2 (52:17):
The scene with the fire height that the firefighter guy,
like what the heck that? Or the flower Oh man,
the whole thing is just so like gut wrenching and
in so many ways but also so bright and cheerful
and colorful. I feel like there's this this generation of
like entertainment for children that just has this sort of

(52:39):
like twisted cynicism, like just baked in under its core
and and it I love it.

Speaker 6 (52:46):
But I hate it.

Speaker 3 (52:48):
Ah.

Speaker 6 (52:49):
I think it's also just a product of the art
of our times. Like when we were kids, when a
movie came out for the months, that was the movie
you saw. Whether you're adult for a child, you know,
oh yeah, Little Mermaid came out, You're seeing Little Mermaid
every time you went to the theater for the next
four months or whatever. You know. Yeah, same thing with
like I remember seeing Trimmers when I was a kid,

(53:11):
and now, like kids, my son watches it and he's
like laughing at me, you know, like this is what
used to think was scary. I was like, yeah, any
minute a word could come up and grab me through
the ground. This is terrifying, you know, And if under
the right circumstances, it kind of was. You know, like
if with no context, all of a sudden, you're afraid
to go anywhere as an eight year old after seeing
one movie, you.

Speaker 2 (53:31):
Know, oh dude, Like, oh dude, I was afraid to
take a shower after watching The Shining for fear that
there'd be some like corpse in the bathtub. Like, yeah,
I get what you're saying. Anyways, childhood trauma aside.

Speaker 3 (53:48):
I could go on. I have a big sister who
definitely pushed me to way too much horror. That's actually
why I hate horror games.

Speaker 2 (53:55):
Baku horror games you talking about? Okay, so, oh gosh, okay,
just a child. By the way, you watched what as
a child?

Speaker 3 (54:09):
Alien?

Speaker 6 (54:10):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (54:10):
Yeah, that explained. Yeah. It swings a lot.

Speaker 6 (54:15):
So like old fashioned nineteen seventy nine body horror to
keep you up night as a child.

Speaker 2 (54:21):
Oh jeez, yes, So is it Jesse Myers or is
it mirrors?

Speaker 6 (54:26):
Who's Tyler Mirror? Tyler Mirror?

Speaker 3 (54:29):
Tyler?

Speaker 2 (54:30):
Okay, I totally watched the the here let me write
that correctly. It was as Tyler Mirror. Okay, Tyler, Yeah,
thank you.

Speaker 6 (54:38):
I think you might have. You might have probably just
picked up some We have so many different musicians that
worked on some of these tracks, and a lot of
them get you know, put pushed up to the title,
and a lot of them have Tyler's And as a
matter of fact.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
How many Tylers do you have on the team? By
the way, that is that is one of the Tylers?

Speaker 6 (54:55):
Have at least four?

Speaker 2 (54:57):
I think Okay, okay, that's I think got it be
one of our highest tyler.

Speaker 6 (55:02):
It's like the Grimlins, you know, you feed him after midnight,
and they're.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Just so Tyler's soundtrack, it gosh, it matches the game's
tone so perfectly. What kind of direction did you give
to achieve like that kind of sound? I mean, I mean,
obviously it's it's not just direction, it's also incredible amounts

(55:26):
of work and talent and creativity.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
But how did you what did you say?

Speaker 6 (55:31):
Do you like just have at it or I like
to imagine that like we were partners climbing that mountain.
I was just on his back like a backpack as
he was making the climb, you know, giving him some
suggestions here and there.

Speaker 3 (55:44):
Yeah, but he was the as you're ascending everest exactly.

Speaker 6 (55:48):
I'm the one up there, and who knows, you know,
I'll probably be the first person to be up with
the next landmark, you know, probably not make it back down.
Tyler's would survive for sure.

Speaker 3 (55:59):
Definitely he did some so he can.

Speaker 6 (56:03):
Do just about any music. I mean, I've I've never
heard him not kill a track. Personally, I love everything
that he does. But whenever I found out that like
he specialized in big band jazz, live instruments and stuff, like,
to me, I was like, that's where already wanted to go,
like I'm a huge fan of like big band jazz,
and with doing a Buddy Cot noir, it just made sense,

(56:25):
you know, like telling the story of America, I mean,
you can't tell it without jazz, without rock and roll,
without all these different elements that kind of like you know,
kind of boiled over over here and kind of created
a substance, a brand new way of art. And so
like when I knew he was doing that, I was like, perfect,
That's exactly what I wanted. It was another one of
those serendipitous things. It just felt like all the pieces

(56:48):
were already coming to place without even having to make
too much of a suggestion, and so I just leaned
into it. And we were at the beginning of the pandemic.
We started pre production, and then the pandemic hit and
I was like, you know what, we have all these
great artists who are looking for work I want to
do live. Let's lean into the live jazz as much

(57:10):
as possible. And oh man, it allowed us to kind
of like it just kind of built its own personality
or just we just what does a JRPG sound like
if you replace you know, the stock instruments with jazz.
How many of those do you need your replace before
it starts becoming bigger and bigger. And we also kind
of like lucked out with some things during the process.

(57:31):
First of all, it's more expensive, of course because you're
doing live band jazz, but in some ways it's actually
saves you money because you have paid this instrument, this
artist for app for at the hours you know already,
so they can do multiple solos. So one thing I'm
really proud about my Familiar is that, like you can
sit there and listen to one track that's looping, say

(57:52):
like the Twinkle Robe Seem, and you will hear new solos,
you know, for three or four iterations. So like I wanted,
it allowed us to kind of like expand the music
into something bigger. So you're not just hearing the same
three to four minutes over and over and over. You're
actually hearing like a thirty minute you know, chunk of
like of you know, unique music as you go when

(58:14):
you're backtracking. And so it was just enough to like
you feel like you hear something new, and so it
doesn't create a sense of fatiguingness. It's never running around. Yeah,
even as I'm developing it like I'm running around here.
I've played this game so much that I should be
sick of it, But I could listen to it every
single time. Not only are the bangers, but they're like
multiple ones and I'm like, oh, I forgot this one.

(58:35):
I remember this one, and then another one another solo
will just come and you're like, wow, I forgot we
we commissioned that one that was really something, you.

Speaker 2 (58:41):
Know, So man, I swear if this doesn't have I mean,
I understand that there's a lot up in the air
about whether or not you can make a physical release
of the game, but holy cow, buddy, uh, could I
get like a CD.

Speaker 3 (58:55):
Or a vinyl?

Speaker 6 (58:57):
Definitely? Okay, that's definitely planned. Like we're very music heavy,
Like I mean, yeah, the music is massive for a
it's so good. Not only a big part of the identity,
but it's also just you know, It's one of the
things I love about Rpugesus. Whenever you go from place
to place, you hear the new see the new sprites,

(59:18):
you see the new song. You know, it creates that
world building in your head. And I think that just
having that strong sense of the world with the music
layered on top of the conflict sprites. It just gives
you a more surreal kind of experience, more like you're
kind of wandering around in an interactive art experience, kind
of like one of those male Wolf kind of places

(59:39):
or something, as opposed to just playing another video game
that's two dimensional. Anything that sucks you into it. And
music is just one of those that does it.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
You know, it gives that sense of space for sure.

Speaker 6 (59:48):
Yeah, you can take away everything else and just have
good music. And that's good enough art on its own.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
I mean it really, it really could be. But they
they definitely synergize and create something greater than just the
some of its parts. And and I think that's also
part of it, is like I'm not just experiencing the music, like,
oh yeah, I'm listening to some jazz and it's good jazz,
but it's like I'm in this world and it sounds
like this, and and there's interplay between the visuals and

(01:00:18):
the audio and it's just it's so good. And in
the animated intro, by the way, was also really good. Yeah,
how did you get that made?

Speaker 3 (01:00:32):
What was that process?

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
Like you're just like, here's some some characters that look
like a bunch of little action figures.

Speaker 6 (01:00:38):
Go, oh, that's one of those, like many different hat situations.
I've never directed a music video before or an animation
like that. Now I can officially say that I have.
There was a lot of different iterations, but for the
most part, so I found who actually did the animation.
So if if, if y'all ever watched some of the

(01:01:00):
new anime coming up on Netflix. So Powerhouse Studios did
they do? What is it Castlevania Sace Monos. There's blood
gods and heroes or something like that, Blood of Heroes
or something. It was like a like a Greek mythology
style anime. So that studio that was doing that animation.

(01:01:23):
I just loved a lot of their work, and they
do a lot of trailers for games and whatnot. So
I decided, And they're an Austin studio, so they're pretty local.
I always thought, well cool, you know, if you know
what hits the fan, I could always just drive up
there and have a face to face meeting. Worst case scenario,
you know, it's not like out. So I called them
up and they just had their lucky enough to you know,
I was lucky enough that they had an opening for

(01:01:46):
you know, another project. And so I just got to
sit in and be like, hey, you know, I've got
X amount of budget to do a cartoon. I always
knew I wanted to do an animated intro all my
favorite games, especially like but I think of my favorite games,
I think of the Super Nintendo to PlayStation one era.
Those two systems right there and everything in between was
the perfect time.

Speaker 4 (01:02:06):
I know that.

Speaker 6 (01:02:07):
Like trying to get my kids to watch play Resident Evil,
They're like, this isn't scary. You know, Very Where's very
master of locks. Like They're just like, I can't believe
you see, I was like, no, I was terrified of
that dog jump through the window. Sun. You have no idea,
you know.

Speaker 2 (01:02:22):
I always used to joke that, like, if I ever
had a kid, I would just hide them from like
modern media until they turned twenty and then like they'd
got into the world and be like, what the heck
a television is actually flat these days? You know, just
just make them grow up like living my childhood. Like,
of course that would probably qualify as some kind of

(01:02:42):
cruel and unusual whatever, but at least at least they'd
understand the golden age of rpegees.

Speaker 6 (01:02:50):
Exactly and all those Golden Age had that intro, you know,
they had that, Like I think my favorite one, top
down was what definitely was wild Arms.

Speaker 3 (01:02:59):
Oh I'm hearing I'm hearing the sound of that intro
right now, but exactly that.

Speaker 6 (01:03:07):
And then inspired the old cowboy westerns but made better. Anyways.
I love, I really love that one, and I loved.

Speaker 4 (01:03:16):
All Like.

Speaker 6 (01:03:19):
People don't don't understand, like we were so hurting for
like any type of entertainment back in the day. We
would literally just watch those videos on repeat, over and
over over. I would get to a part in an
RPG where I couldn't be anymore and I'd stop, But
then I'd go back and I'd watch that intro like
a dozen more times, like Okay, let's go, let's let's
do this again. You know, like those are like hype trailers,
you know, like every time. I didn't never skip. I

(01:03:41):
like watched the thing every single time. For most games,
you know, some of them were garbage, but for the RPGs,
it was like early cinema. I was like, this is
a movie in a game. I was like trying to
explain it to my dad and He's like, oh, yeah, yeah, okay, son,
whatever dude.

Speaker 2 (01:03:55):
It was a mind blowing when so I couldn't get
Croninal Trigger on Super Nintendo for a long long time,
but I was able to find it out. My jaw dropped,
it hit the floor when I found it in like
a Walmart on PlayStation, like the Greatest Hits copy, and
I was just like, this is what And then I
plugged it and I play it, and I tried to

(01:04:16):
play Final Fantasy first, and I'm just like, eh, I
don't know, this looks weird. I put it back, put
in Corona Trigger perfect like it was it. Sure, there
was a load time, but I mean in the grand scheme,
like I'll wait a few seconds. It's fine, Like I'm
I got nothing to do. I'm not in a hurry.
And then like the cut scenes would kick in with

(01:04:37):
Akidatriyama's like anime art style, like straight out of Dragon
Ball Z but with extra shading and extra production, and
it's just like, dude, my I just I fell deeper
in love with Krona Trigger at that point. This is
it just it, it adds, it adds to the experience

(01:04:58):
so much terratory.

Speaker 6 (01:05:00):
I was actually probably with my biggest inspiration for creating
this universe too when when it comes from the Eastern Point,
because yeah, like we were talking about earlier with anime,
he made like the perfect worlds where like the goofy
ist shit and the most wild awesome shit happened in
these same like sometimes within episodes, you know, or just
in the next arc or whatever, and like that's something

(01:05:24):
that I'll always take away from from his art and
the only Dragon Warrior stuff and like that kind of
like it's just simple. It's all fun forward and also cool.
It's just like bright colors but also dark things. So
like all that makes sense, and like whenever you have
that introduction, the intro, that kind of like can like
open that world for you. Like you don't know anything

(01:05:45):
about this world, but all of a sudden you're invested.
You get like you see all these bullshots. You're like,
oh my god, now they're on a spaceship. Oh my god,
now they're fighting a dinosaur. Oh guys, they're fighting a
dinosaur on a spaceship. You're like, there's just too many
things to jump between one scene to another that like
you're like, this world must be massive if this is
just the tip of the iceberg. You know, that sense

(01:06:05):
of like you know, ready to dive in, which is
also what I like about the isakai genre too, Like, yeah,
there's a lot of terrible isakai out there, but I
still like a lot of them too, because it's that
sense of immersion in world building where you get, like
when you see a character who's ready to you know,
go into a new world and from the player's point
of view or from the viewers point of view, you're

(01:06:26):
learning the world with them. It just makes sense as
a storytelling, you know, I'm surprised that it's not used
more often. People like the lump of all together, but
it's like it's like a fish out of water scene,
as you know, typical fish out of water story with
like you know, all these other different stakes in imagination
behind it, because you can literally rewrite the entire universe

(01:06:47):
and just people just it's interesting to see how the
worlds differ from the regular world to even the fantasy world.
Like that's already intriguing as a concept.

Speaker 2 (01:06:55):
I remember seeing your post whereas like fish out of
Warner story and then he just has the flex tape.

Speaker 3 (01:07:02):
He's a guy.

Speaker 6 (01:07:04):
It's like.

Speaker 3 (01:07:06):
Perfect, Oh man, that's.

Speaker 6 (01:07:09):
How it feels, you know, like and I like that,
Like I love really in depth stories, but I also
like stuff that's just fun on the surface, like a
fun ride. I like, I missed the old popcorn flicks.
Now everything's like rotten tomatoes and like, oh, it's a
ten percent. I feel like the stuff that's like ninety
percent or one undred percent, I'm like eh. And the

(01:07:29):
stuff that's like twenty to thirty forty percent.

Speaker 3 (01:07:32):
Is like, you know what I really shot?

Speaker 2 (01:07:35):
Yeah, because I mean, like that's I you know what
I rewatched last night. I mean, I don't know if
you've ever heard of this movie. If not, it's a
crying shame. But it's called Surf Ninjas. Actually, of course,
just rewatched that last night with Amy uh losing it over,
you know Rob Schneider's money Can't Buy.

Speaker 3 (01:07:52):
A Knives monologue. Oh God, it's a terrible movie. But
it's also a fantastic movie. And yeah, and they all.

Speaker 6 (01:08:01):
Were terrible movies, Like even the best movies back then
were pretty terrible. Like I'll get a lot of crap
for this, but like the first couple of Star Wars,
they are great. But it is a bit silly if
you think about it from today's point of view. I
mean there's not one camera and the death Star. They're
like all hide and behind pillars like this the whole time,
and then hiding the ninch and up behind the others.
Like there's so many plot holes. If you're going into

(01:08:22):
a story like that looking for plotholes to blow up
your your fun, then you're always gonna find them. So like,
I like how isakai and anime and RPG is kind
of like, you know what, we don't need to look
over there. It's fine. There's just a monster here. Now,
there's just an orc now, and he's cool. You know,
it doesn't matter the rules. We're learning these rules because
these universes are completely different than our own, and we

(01:08:45):
get to make the rules and it can all be
equally that shit crazy or completely relevant at the end.
You never know.

Speaker 3 (01:08:52):
Yeah, tropes are schluck, but hey that's my schluck. I
like that schluck.

Speaker 6 (01:08:58):
Can't tell ano war story or a buddy cop story
without the tropes. It's just it's that's that's.

Speaker 3 (01:09:03):
That's how it is done. So let's shift gears once more.

Speaker 2 (01:09:07):
Let's talk a little bit about like your your business
and marketing and future plans here because with Q four
five is apparently kind of your your target release. How
is your development schedule looking right now with what's left
to tackle? I mean, is it is that still looking realistic?

Speaker 3 (01:09:27):
How are things?

Speaker 4 (01:09:28):
No?

Speaker 6 (01:09:28):
Not at all? I'm sorry, guys, That's what this is,
like the conversation I've been putting off like forever for everybody,
every all you four getting there like years ago. It
made sense, but like you said, we have all these
different projects going on, and I'm I'm also I'm financing

(01:09:48):
this thing completely myself. So it's like, oh, wow, I
could have had it made by now if I really
wanted to just burn up savings, but I have to
also like eat and pay for my kids.

Speaker 3 (01:09:58):
Oh that's so selfish, school and all that. So it's
just like, uh huh.

Speaker 6 (01:10:03):
I think that the problem with an RPG like this
is the scope. No matter what you do, it's gonna
get out of it's gonna be bigger than you ever imagined.
Like they say, like you take it and then you
double it, but it's more like triple it or whatever,
because their scope really never is done until you get
that vertical slice done. And then once you have the
vertical slice, you have a better look at like Okay,
this amount of time and this amount of talent and

(01:10:24):
budget translates into this amount of gameplay. But at the
same time, it also kind of guides you in the
direction of your project towards my Familiar. It's not going
to be a thirty to one hundred and fifty hour game.
That's not what I'm trying to do here. I want
to be more concise. I'm looking for more like a
twelve to sixteen hour gameplay, something like the classics like
Proto Trigger, Super Mario RPG. The games that like I

(01:10:47):
grew up and kind of were introducting, introduced me to
this kind of genre. So like to get to that
where this game needs to be to twelve sixteen hours,
it's gonna be at least next year, could linger more.
It also depends I'm looking for a publisher right now.
I would love to hit it consoles un launch, you know,

(01:11:08):
so like I could easily see PC being postponed more
than a year because I'm trying to launch with console
ports at the same time, you know, and trying to
hit like a maximum strategy because my Familiar is a
little bit unique. It's not just like a small mom
and pop and the kind of. It's not just one
person or two people with it and all the talent.

(01:11:30):
It is a it's a large machine, and it takes
a lot of money to run the machine. And it's
just it's bigger than me, and it needs to be
this thing, and it has to have this certain amount
of time to become the thing that it needs to be.
So I'd rather I'm not trying to push it. I
know some people be disappointed, but at the end of
the day, the game has to be the best version

(01:11:53):
of itself before I'm ready for it to be out,
and to do that, I'm probably gonna need a strategic partner.
I'm looking at publishers. You can help me get port
to consoles, get localizations, because it's realistic. Let's say I
did rush this and launched later this year or early
next year, and I would have to go one localization
at a time, one port at a time. Then I

(01:12:13):
couldn't make DLC. Then I'm talking about my familiar is
just not taking another year or year and a half
or two years. It's talking about five six years to
really get it to where it needs to be. I'd
rather get it somewhere, like to where in a year
and a half, two years. It's everything that everyone needs
it to be across the board, and I can get
all the markets at the same time, and then I
can just focus on my DLC because my thing is

(01:12:36):
I really want to use future sales to make free
DLC like I have this day. It's going to be
free DLC like as long as people will still keep
buying it, I will promise to keep making DLC for
it as long as I can fiscally afford it. Wow,
And unless you know, maybe you know two or three
of them, I drop and like, Okay, that's the story

(01:12:56):
I need to tell. I want to save something for
the next game or whatever. But my familiar to me,
I don't even really see it as needing a sequel.
I feel like I could just keep telling the story
the same way a good anime would have multi arcs,
you know, like a for instance, I think of like
the Bleach saga. But then if you just stop after Eisen,
you know, like just like that would be ideal for me.

(01:13:17):
You know, you have like the one, two and then
the last out kind of punchings.

Speaker 3 (01:13:24):
But are you not are you counting the filler or
you're counting the oh.

Speaker 6 (01:13:28):
No, sorry, no filler here, And that's some people might
not appreciate that this is going to be. This is
a very linear game, like you were going for momentum,
you're there is still there are hubs for exploration. There's
like twinkle row I like to I'm like to plan
these big hubs where you can go and take your time, yeah,
like and and progress the story and find secrets that

(01:13:49):
city that we always the dungeons in between there. They're
very linear. It's very very narrative driven form momentum even
for the story, like the ideas you're trying to get
the heck off this island, so like it just makes
sense that you're just trying to skid daddle through everything.
So like, yeah, i'd like at the end.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
So it was so fun to explore that first like town,
because I know that it opened up and I could
go in a lot of different directions and it felt
like I could just spend hours, like just exploring and
finding hidden things, and just because it the world definitely
has a lot of small hidden things to be found,
like that side trading quest that I stumbled upon and

(01:14:31):
then eventually you assisted with its conclusion. I appreciate that Uh,
it just feels like there's so much tucked into all
the different corners that you I definitely wanted to take
my time and explore as thoroughly as I could, knowing
even though that I was like on a time crunch
of like that was the night I had to stream it.

(01:14:53):
So I cannot wait to actually get hands on and
be able to cause I think when you say like
sixteen to twenty hours, I'm assuming that that also you
probably mean like sixty.

Speaker 6 (01:15:07):
Twelve, sixteen, sixteen, promising twenty hours.

Speaker 3 (01:15:11):
Bad, my bad.

Speaker 2 (01:15:11):
I'm in the way I play it, though, and I
think that I think something classic guys can tell you.
The way I play games is kind of like not
the way other people do, so I could probably stretch
it to thirty forty.

Speaker 3 (01:15:25):
Oh when when it comes to streamers, whatever hours you're saying,
is the developer times two exactly? Rule, it's whatever the
developer says, then you double it or triple it because
you're not gonna but not for everybody playing solo.

Speaker 6 (01:15:38):
No, Yeah, like doing free DLC and like doing some stuff.
So like there is a point in the game to
where you kind of have like that final Fantasy six
World of ruin moment where you're like, it's fun to
backtrack and see people like, Okay, how things have changed
and where this character is now kind of stuff. So
there's gonna be a lot of incentive I think to
go back and backtrack. Some of these hubs and some

(01:15:59):
of that stuff will change. Adding DLC, we'll add some
new zones. So like we but we just want to
make sure that, like it's a very dense ride, you
could always add things to add playability. For instance, like
if I really wanted to make my game like thirty
forty hours, I would just revamp the combat to make

(01:16:20):
take it, make it take longer. I mean that's a
most games kind of like you spend most of your
time in a lot of these RPGs in the combat system,
and some of them can kind of drag, at least
to me. I'm more I prefer things quicker and snappier.
I appreciate things like that that earth Bound system when
you out leveled something and you touch it and you disappeared.
So stuff like that, you know, a nice slice of
life kind of makes you momentum. It also kind of

(01:16:42):
gives you Okay, it's time to move on, you know,
kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:16:45):
So like, yeah, this is exactly something I was telling
my my viewers. Well it feels like not that long ago,
but I don't know how long the video came out,
but it was talking about how shorter RPGs are actually
a better value for your time because a lot of
people don't realize, uh that the the time that when
you buy a game, that is one of the costs.

(01:17:07):
And some people think that when you play the game
that the time that it fills is the is the output,
but no, that's actually also one of the costs, uh,
is your time, and the output is just the entertainment
and the experience that you get out of the game
when you're playing it, and the joy that it provides you.
And if that's diluted by having to fight the same

(01:17:30):
you know, three palate swaps of like one enemy in
an area for hours on end just to get to
the exit, then I mean you're just you know, not experience.
Your time could be spent better on denser games.

Speaker 6 (01:17:46):
With that in an RPG or game that this scope
is inevitable.

Speaker 3 (01:17:51):
Oh oh, I'm not criticizing that to kind.

Speaker 6 (01:17:54):
Not but it's okay, I undergo, I totally agree with
what you're saying too. That was kind of one of
the things we put into our thoughts too. It's like
we don't just throw another enemy and just reskin it,
you know essentially, I mean, or just recolor it slightly.
We will reskin key features, key animations and stuff to
where like we want to. We have kind of like
a set system toward like each enemy will use probably

(01:18:18):
two or three times, but they will be so vastly different,
different skills, and they just they just the only thing
that's similar is kind of a base bright that gets
altered wildly, you know, sure, or like we'll reuse buildings
with a different palette swap here and there, but we'll
add different items and stuff like that. So the reuse
is always going to be there. But with these shorter stories,

(01:18:39):
we can afford to put better art in it, more music,
denser music, better art, better writing, Like we get to
put the polish is so polished that everyone where it
feels better as opposed, you don't feel lacking from the
second to second. To me, RPGs are all about pacing.
Some people like to grind. I like hearts and RPGs

(01:19:00):
where I can grind if it makes sense, like mini
games here or there, like the Gold and Chocobo, or
you want all the material, that kind of stuff. I like,
I think those kind of things are more important to
me than just grinding through sheer amounts of energy enemies
to get the right you know, experience or this and that.
So yeah, I just want to I want to inmuate
this a different set of story. I don't want to
emulate the RPGs that are like, you know, stretching your

(01:19:23):
wallet to these days. I want to emphasize the RPGs
that I grew up playing. But the mercy to your
wallet is it's an indie game, so you know it's
going to be like twenty twenty five bucks versus like
paying all of your sixty to eighty you know allowance,
birthday money to dollars be saved up for years as
a kid, you know. Yeah, hopefully a lot more manageable.

Speaker 2 (01:19:45):
God, I mean, honestly, i'd i'd pay the twenty twenty
five for what I played already on the on the demo.
That was a heck of an experience. I want to
go back, but I might at some point when when
the game comes out, I'll do it. But uh, now
we've hinted at it a little bit before already, but
some players are pretty curious about the potential of a

(01:20:06):
console release, especially the Nintendo Switch. Can you share your
plans or hopes regarding the platforms?

Speaker 6 (01:20:15):
So you here here first, we will definitely come out
to Switch for sure.

Speaker 3 (01:20:20):
Oh.

Speaker 6 (01:20:22):
I don't know what the timeline looks like, but I
would like to do at I would like to launch
at least PC and Switch. That would be good for me.
If I find a different strategic partner, then I would
love to also be PlayStation five, you know, Xbox which two,
like all those things. I don't know how the switch
switch to thing works out yet, you know, that's a

(01:20:42):
whole other can of worms, I'm sure, but I'm sure
it's you know. But ideally, yes, I want to launch
on Switch. I would love to launch on everything. It
would be great to get some like game pass money
for you know, PlayStation and Xbox I'm not sure, yeah,
but consoles area. That's also one of the reasons why
we're definitely not launching this year, is because I want

(01:21:04):
to make sure I do this thing right. This is
also just like it's my savings and everything. I want
to hit this thing at the right time to have
the Maximum Input Pact and not for just selfish financial reasons,
delfish financial regions. They'll get me wrong, But I'm more
concerned about this game, the finances to continue the DLC,
and just I want this game to get out there

(01:21:25):
and be the best version of itself. So I think
that to me as a business minded person, I don't
think it's in the cards to just kind of like
do a completely strap campaign. I think I need to
find some people to kind of help me get this thing,
because I feel like it's such a good game. It's
such it has such quality to it that people kind

(01:21:46):
of expect more out of it too. Like a game
like Stars probably cost millions. You know, we're running on
like not even a fraction of any of that kind
of stuff, and so it's like, you know, like a
sticks a budget like that kind of a game, and
we're trying to compete with the same shelf space with
games that have that same kind of wow factor too.

(01:22:06):
So I really need to play to my strengths with
the design, the pacing, everything, but also the release strategy.
And I would rather take a little bit longer and
get everything right and upset everyone one system, one port
at a time, as I'm just like, you know, you know,
slowly drowning, and then I can't fulfill these promises to people.

(01:22:29):
Same thing with a kickstarter, Like last time, I was
going to come on here, I was going to be
ready to announce like a Kickstarter and we're going to
do this immediately, and then like I entered the wrong
banking information, so it ended up delaying the kickstarter and
I was like, Okay, I'm not going to hit this window. Okay,
I'll do it next week or a week after that,
and then the terroiffs hit. I'm like, oh my god.

(01:22:49):
My whole theme for my kickstarters were going to be
physical consoles, like I wanted. I'm already making my game,
I have the budget to make it. I just wanted
to do a great physical launch, you know for people
who wanted physicals have big collectors editions and all that stuff.
And now I'm just like, well, I guess I have
to sit and wait and see what all this craziness
kind of lands, because I can't afford to give someone

(01:23:11):
one hundred to three hundred dollars collector or whatever if
it's going to be double the price amount on the
logs you know of somebody you know like and stuff like,
I'd not only would it end up costing me money potentially,
but it would disappoint people, and then I'd have to
make I'd have to you know, under promise, over promised
the things that I couldn't and underdeliver, and I just

(01:23:31):
to me, I'd just rather sit back and make sure
the timing and everything makes sense to where I can
give people the best product and just hope that people
have the patience and understand that. You know, these games
they're not made and and I'm not just trying to
bull it in like they're not made overnight, like of course,
but no, it's it's more than that they are made
at night. They're made at night while we're losing all

(01:23:52):
our sleep. I get home from work and I do
five more hours of work after I put all the
kids to bed and make dinner and all these things.
So it's like, I feel that we want this game
to get out there, and we want this on as
many platforms and as many language as possible, but we
just have to take a realistic approach to how those
roll out. And I think for my familiar it's definitely

(01:24:14):
gonna be on consoles. I mean, I'm a console player
if I can sit back. I'm an Xbox player too,
someone of the rare Xbox RPG guys like ye, like
on the main pass or something.

Speaker 3 (01:24:27):
Yeah, oh man, But so can take it.

Speaker 6 (01:24:30):
Easy on my back and stretch it the other way
wrong as opposed to like, you know, hunched over the
computer screen all day and kind of counteract it. I'll
do that instead of playing over a PC.

Speaker 2 (01:24:39):
Oh yeah, Well, I mean the trick is you got
to get one of these lumbar support things, because you know,
at a certain age, lumbar support is like the most
like important.

Speaker 3 (01:24:48):
Thing in the world. Otherwise I'd never be able to
do what I do.

Speaker 6 (01:24:53):
Yeah, I've got like four or things. They just don't work,
and I'm just like weirdly like hunt By the like
I'll start here, oh yeah, slowly get there every single time.
You know, That's just how it is.

Speaker 3 (01:25:06):
Oh man.

Speaker 2 (01:25:07):
So I'd say that it seems to me like you've
effectively built quite a bit of buzz around my familiar
So what has been your favorite marketing approach for this
and achieving this buzz and what has has any feedback
around this surprised.

Speaker 6 (01:25:22):
You so far. Well, first of all, from my position,
it's almost like have I generated enough buzz? I mean,
have I generated a bus? Because like I do, I
remember these milestones. I remember back in the day when
we're just getting like a demo out and getting the
first few wish lists in. I was like, I got
three wish lists last night, you know, like I was

(01:25:44):
just like stoked for all these things. And it's just
slowly or even the building up Twitter unfortunately, and you know,
all these social media platforms, like I slowly was in
it felt and it was you're always in the trenches
and you can bear look up to see you kind
of lose objectivity of like I know, listening, I get
more shares, I get more whatever, I'm getting more wishless obvious,

(01:26:08):
but like you get to kind of feeling like you're
saying the same few things and the void and stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:26:12):
So like, I definitely feel like you guys are getting
some some traction here, at least from myself and back when.
I don't know what that counts for, but we are
incredibly hyped, and I know that our audience here on
hipoint is incredibly hyped, and I you know, it's just
ah yeah, anyways.

Speaker 4 (01:26:35):
I.

Speaker 6 (01:26:36):
Like, you know, like with with the building the buzz
or in the in the feedback and all that kind
of stuff, is like just building the game in general,
build the game you want to build. I know that
there's conflicting cancer it's like, oh, build the game you
want to play, or build the game that other people
want to play. This they all kind of have to
align in some weird way. Like you you can't build
the game unless it's the game you're passionate about, unless

(01:26:58):
you want to play it. You know, you can make
promises here and there along the way, but unless it's
ultimately the game you're excited about, you know, I don't
recommend building it. Yeah, but if you're building something that
you're excited about, it's not hard to get other people
excited about something, especially if it's a quality game. You know,
like yeah, sometimes you're you end up building the game

(01:27:20):
for other people or making a game that other people
didn't know they wanted to play along the way. And
I think that like people are ready for something interesting,
especially in kind of these spaces where we've seen it
all and so anytime you have something new, like the jazz,
the Western kind of like the modern stuff. Like any
of these kind of things on their own I think
are great, like verbs or or like things that like

(01:27:43):
pull people in, you know, like but at the end
of the day, you just got to build a thing
you're passionate about. And if it's a good game, if
you're it will be marketable. If it's a good game,
you will find your kind of niche to kind of
like build it towards and kind of like lean onto
support and feedback. And when you get that feedback As
an indie developer, like I said earlier, it's crucial. It's

(01:28:04):
like the lifeblood. Not only like I don't even play
video games anymore. I just watch other people play my
video game and then I'm like, yeah, you should do this,
and they're not even you know, it's a recorded session,
you know, like I'm sitting there like over the shoulder
someone to this foot is just long gone and there
all you should have been, you know, like all that
kind of like micromanaging. I love that kind of stuff.

(01:28:26):
I can just you know, sit back and have a
drink and just like totally watch other people play, you know,
play my game. That's my new kind of like you know,
new new hobby maker video games, watching other people play
VI games. I don't play video games anymore. I rarely
have the time. You kind of have to choose one
or the other. And unless you're in a place where
you need relax or whatever. But even then I'll play

(01:28:49):
a game. I either like it. I'm like, oh man,
I should go work on my game, or I hate
it and I'm like, oh man, I should work on
my game.

Speaker 2 (01:28:54):
You know, so m hm, you know that's funny like that,
the more I talk to you, and the more I
talk to other indie doves, I feel like I see
so many mirrors of like my own personal experience, like
making a YouTube channel, except obviously without the huge financial
investment that you guys have to make. And uh but
like in the sense that like it's it's a lot

(01:29:14):
of it is made, like you said, by candlelight, basically
when you're burning the candle. At the other end, it's
made overnight after work, when you're putting in all the hours,
and then eventually you realize you're not even playing the
games anymore. You're you're that that inspired you. You're already
you're working on this other thing that you're working on
and that's become the new hobby that takes up the
entirety of your time, and it's it's just.

Speaker 6 (01:29:36):
And then you start a new game on the back burner,
just for your hot seats. If you're like, oh, well,
what's the next project I'll do? You start making a
game design document.

Speaker 2 (01:29:45):
Oh yeah, that's that's the point, by the way for me. Yeah,
what about second YouTube channel?

Speaker 6 (01:29:53):
Well, I think that that's a lot of art kind
of grows. I mean, I look ye the Soul's games.
You're basically rebuying the same aim over and over and
over and over and over. But it's just a different world,
different characters, different bosses, you know, similar systems. They're just
repolishing the same kind of system that they excel at
and create a new new piece of art out of it.

(01:30:14):
And you know, I think that that's that's that's that's
not something to be looked down upon. I think that's amazing.
I think that if you're buildings, you should be moving
forward the more you create. I mean, look at all
these great I'm listening to all those like the Jason
Schreier kind of like game development books, and you just
you hear all the different horror stories like this industry

(01:30:35):
wasn't just volatile overnight. I mean, creative industries have always,
you know, been volatile, and they have periods of stability,
but you can never really plan for it, and you
have to, like it's one of those games you have
to have enough faith or you jump off a cliff.
To make a game, you have to have enough faith
to jump off a cliff and not be assured that
you know you're gonna find your your stride or even

(01:30:56):
make it.

Speaker 4 (01:30:57):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:30:57):
But then whenever you fall, at least you learn some
new stuff, You pick yourself up, you remove some things,
you change your project around. You're like, okay, well I'm
going to go in this direction. This is something I
want to do now. You don't know who or who
you are or what you want until you've kind of
pushed through those kind of limitations that were there before.
So it should be good to start a new channel,

(01:31:18):
to start a new thing, start a new hobby, start
a new dea. And I think everyone's so afraid of
failure that that's what keeps a lot of people from
really getting into a creative field. And you can't be
afraid of failure. You have to fail. So much that
you're no longer afraid of failure. You're just afraid to
talk to people in a large space or something like that.
Those fears don't always go away, but even then they work.

(01:31:39):
Like I've got tons of anxiety, But I would have
never done a podcast or any of these kind of
things five ten years ago.

Speaker 3 (01:31:45):
But you're nailings out of intrigue.

Speaker 6 (01:31:49):
It just back then, I didn't know anything, Like if
you would ask me this stuff five years agould have
made up a bunch of bullshit and just tried to
slap my face on it, like, yeah, I know what
I'm talking about now enough about this industry to know
that I don't know shit, and so like I'm trying
my best to just make plays to the best of
my ability and let people learn from my mistakes, and

(01:32:10):
I learned from other people's mistakes, because at the end
of the day, that's what all this failures for, is
for us to lean on each other and use it. Okay,
don't go down that path, and if you do, bring
an umbrella or whatever.

Speaker 4 (01:32:21):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:32:21):
Yeah, just those cautionary tales. And I think that you
can't be afraid of failure. You got to and if
you're going to fail, though, fail big fail on something
that you are proud of, and it doesn't feel like
a failure, you know. And whenever you have a game
like this big, it just grows. It's not just your
dreams and hopes and dreams, it's everyone else's and it

(01:32:43):
kind of becomes this big thing that that's larger than
itself and that I don't think I have the confidence
in myself as much where I have the confidence of
this project. I'm confident in this project, I'm confident in
my team. That gives me confidence to come out here
and be like, you know what, I could just weasel
out some sort of like, oh, this is a position
myself in the most perfect looking. Oh I just did

(01:33:04):
this because I know all these not it's that's unrealistic.
I think it's better to give people a look under
the hood and be like, it is hard work, it's
thankless work, but it's worth work that is worth doing.
Art alone has saved me many times in my life.
Dark depressions and you know, physical mental issues, all those

(01:33:27):
kind of things that art was the only thing that
kind of gave me that raft to kind of be.
And I want to make that for someone someone else,
you know. And that's why the feedback is so important.
It's not just my game at this point, it's everyone
else's game too, And I know where it needs to
go in certain directions when we get to these forking paths.
But ultimately that feedback is the lifeblood. And we all

(01:33:50):
the testers that we watch, we're watching it all. We're
taking notes and if there's enough, we don't try to
take look at just one thing. If there's an isolated incident,
you take it for what it is is. But if
there's the same dots are lining up in causition correlation
style of graph, then you know where your problem areas are.
And when you can't afford a quality assurance team, I

(01:34:12):
would all even argue that it's better than quality assurance.
So like we have one we have one testers handle
is Lea Grim but his name's an addict and uh
he I call him the hammer because he breaks shit,
any repair shit, you know, like he does both things equally.
And that's and I'm thankful for it, yeah, because I

(01:34:34):
know once he's gone in there with a hammer, I
can put the demo out and then we'll find that
the next round of bugs that are like really you know,
niche situations that just kind of oh I disabled this
and then this froze my game and that kind of thing.
But like every bit of feedback, we need it as
indies because otherwise we're just waiting till the last moment.
And if anyone's an indie developer and they're afraid of,

(01:34:57):
you know, putting their game out there because of all
the the feedback that they'll get, positive, negative, whatever it is,
don't you needed to do it yesterday, you know, make
your Steam page, immediately, get your your stuff out there. Start, start.
Don't be afraid to put yourself out there and your
footage out there because you don't want The worst thing
you can do is make a game that is just
for yourself. Otherwise that's the that that camp that were

(01:35:21):
kind of leads you stray. It's like, you're not making
a game just for yourself. You need to make a
game for yourself, but it's got to be fun for
everyone else. And the only way to do that is
to look at all this feedback, clind sight, take it,
disseect it, see what strengths your games lie. And then
you lose so much objective the ability to objectively look
at your project after even a few weeks or months

(01:35:41):
that you need that outside perspective constantly looking in and
don't take negative feedback as negative feedback. Just take it
as a challenge to be like it either will reassure
what you're going in the right path because you won't
want to go out of that path, or you know
it's worth looking into because maybe there's something there and
it's you can't put the blinders on to where you're

(01:36:02):
not willing to kind of you know, give it that perspective,
everyone's perspective and honest go you.

Speaker 3 (01:36:07):
Know, definitely, And we did talk about it last last
week as a matter of last last last interview, we
talked about this and it's it's it's lean, it's lean development.
Look into it, right, like guys for folks who are
you know and inspired and want to get into like
Indie Death's like, look into it. Lean lean development is

(01:36:29):
the thing, you know, get your mptp out, uh, get
get feedbacks a SAP if you're going to fail, and
you will fail, like it's not a question. You're not
gonna make a thing that is ultra polished and ready
to go in your first trial without failure. Yeah, it's
like learning to walk like you're going to trip and

(01:36:50):
fall like it will happen, and it happens to every
single person.

Speaker 2 (01:36:56):
Uh, just make sure you fall before you get too high. Yeah,
but yeah, best to do is just get it out there.

Speaker 3 (01:37:01):
Fail fast, fail early, fail cheap, because the earlier you fail,
the cheaper it is. Right the you don't want to
like spend like a couple, you know, years developing a thing,
never had anyone look at it, and then push it
out in all kinds of like, you know, bad things happening,
what us just to waste the years, right, so agile lean,

(01:37:21):
it's that kind of thing. I'm a PM, so I
get to throw those things out.

Speaker 6 (01:37:26):
You're not failing because of some massive conspiracy that the
world just like you know, paranoid delusion turning it on you.
If you if your project failed is because you know,
you either didn't make the right moves, you didn't put
it in the right places, it wasn't the right version
of itself. You probably didn't fail enough to get it
to the point to where it needed to be, to
where it's no longer a failure.

Speaker 2 (01:37:47):
You know that's yeah, yeah, I think never a failure
until you quit in general, Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:37:51):
Like I hate my art until like the last five percent,
and then I'm like, oh wow, that this is actually okay,
is a cool character? Like up until that the first
five ten percent, I'm like, eh, you know. Then then
then middle seventy everercenting, I'm like, what am I doing?
I want to race it, want to throw it away,
I want to start over. But if you push through
it sometimes and you're like, you know what, I'm glad
I've stuck with this piece, even this is just drawn

(01:38:13):
a picture, you know, think about if you did that.
Now we have game development, which is you know, dozens
hundreds of different points of view, different pieces of art
that all have the same kind of like sink or
swim kind of need, and you have to test it
all independently together. You cannot be afraid to put yourself
out there and then fail. Otherwise you are guaranteed you're

(01:38:34):
going to fail, and then you're going to fail on
the time that matters. You're going to fail at the
big time. Whenever you go up for your first stage
for your big performance. Who cares if you're out, you know,
go karaoke before you go, do you know whatever, the
America's got talent kind of stuffy. Start small and set
yourself up some like realistic wins along the way too,
Like you know, you go up three spaces, you go

(01:38:57):
back to you up one, you go back one. It's
it's it's a never ending process. And don't get frustrated.
Just know that through the frustration, through the fire and
the broomstone of it all, through the other side of
the gauntlet, you come out stronger. The art comes out stronger.
And then all of a sudden, you don't have to
sell it so hard because you listened and you emphasize

(01:39:18):
the things that people like, and it's you're not having
to sell someone a used car like a sleazy salesman.
You're like selling someone a brand new car for twenty
twenty five bucks. Slap that one on there, that sticker.
That's a really good point yourself.

Speaker 3 (01:39:34):
It's a really good point. You made all the critique,
Like you already know what point what angle to like
sell a thing too. So it's like that I've already
heard it all. I know exactly like the good points
that the points that are more unique, like I can
tell you I've heard so many feedbacks already, right, It's a.

Speaker 2 (01:39:52):
Really good point that you made earlier about like leaning
into what people enjoy, and you won't find out what
those are until you put something else out there too.

Speaker 3 (01:40:01):
Bucus quick question, did.

Speaker 2 (01:40:02):
You did you end up getting many or any questions
from chat that haven't already been in some uh and.

Speaker 3 (01:40:08):
Some were already answered just through the course of your uh,
you know, correspondence. But I do have a question from
Still Alive. We threw in a super chat to ask
this question. He says, funny question. Do you have your
characters finding hamburgers and food in trash cans to replenge
health like Earthbound in your game?

Speaker 6 (01:40:28):
O L there now they're they're Fiesta burgers. They're already
in play. Yeah, we find honestly, you find more things
in trash in this game than probably any other games.
Just my experience as an American is I've put so
much trash into my body.

Speaker 3 (01:40:47):
One man's trash another man's treasure. One man's trash can
is another treasure chest.

Speaker 6 (01:40:53):
There you go. Sometimes you throw away some steel donuts
or a burger, and then like two hours later, you're like,
you know, it didn't touch anything, It's still in the passage.
It happens. Not my proudest moments, but there are moments
in the game.

Speaker 3 (01:41:09):
Oh man, I do have one question. I kind of
want to go back to what Derek was asking before
well or touched on sure about just like the different
aesthetics and different aspects of the game really coming together.
Because that's the thing that strikes me the most about

(01:41:29):
My Familiar. Maybe that's my feedback after test playing this
thing like more times than I'd like to admit, and
having seen the trailer too many times. Also, the thing
that strikes me the most about My Familiar, it's beyond
obviously the beautiful visuals and the music, is how well

(01:41:53):
everything tied together, maybe more so than some other games
that I've seen in all the times that I play
at RPGs. You know, sometimes you have an RPG where
like the visual just really takes the cake, maybe the
music takes a step back, or vice versa. Maybe the
music is really good, the visuals that's okay, you know,

(01:42:15):
like it's never bad, but there's always something that sort
of takes the lead for me, right, And sometimes they
don't necessarily work together coherently, right, and I'm just like, oh,
why is this music playing? Even though, like the visuals
would suggest that it should be playing something else, but

(01:42:36):
you know, you let it go, like overall, the experience
is still good. Rarely do I see a game and
this is like the part that I want it for
out there. Rarely do I see a game where the
visual and the music and the story, the tonality, the
aesthetics work so well together in conjunction that I didn't

(01:42:58):
even feel like, well, you know, I don't want to.
At no point do I feel like, you know what
music is a strong suit? Oh, like you know the
story is a strong suit. No, they just all work together, so,
you know, in this perfect comedy, and it's hard to achieve.
Very few games, if I ever played, would I give
that distinction to Crawl Triggers one where I'm like the art,

(01:43:21):
the gameplay, the aesthetics, the tonality, everything works in conjunction,
in perfect harmony. I can't tell you which is better,
Oh which takes the lead? They all do?

Speaker 2 (01:43:35):
And I get that from my familiar hold on, No,
you need to hype responsibly here, Okay, I do. You
can go comparing gamess.

Speaker 3 (01:43:43):
Right, No, but but that's true, Like I don't say
that for every game, and I can't say that for
every game this is it's so good. I would uh
and and like look like don't take my words for
you guys can see our play through, you can. You
can see this game for yourself, like you after playing
the game, because I was smiling before. Yeah, so then
my question for you is you know in that sense

(01:44:07):
what came first for you?

Speaker 6 (01:44:08):
Right?

Speaker 3 (01:44:08):
Because here's the thing. Story is perhaps someone's supporte Like
you work with a team of professionals that work with
different things, and different things are sort of like they're
you know, strong serit obviously music, We've got Tyler, and
then you know, story, We've got Tyler, and then the art.
We've got Tyler, all the Tyler's every Tyler in the

(01:44:32):
game world. Tyler's all the way down. Yeah no, But
but the on the real like how do you get
them to work so well together? Like what do you
start with?

Speaker 6 (01:44:45):
This is kind of like a complicated, multifaceted you know,
I can answer this in a bunch of different ways,
but if I was gonna think realistically, like the reason
why my familiar stands out it's not just the inspiration
and the characters, and this is I think a lot
of it has to do with we spend a lot
of time in pre production. Like I don't think a

(01:45:07):
lot of indies have that kind of same luxury to
like spend time. They can just kind of finding the
right people having the budget for it, you know, finding
the right people, like the essentially the best in slot,
you know, Diablo style for your character build. You know.
So like we spend a lot of time putting together
a good team. And during that first year or so

(01:45:27):
of pre production, because everyone was working on their other
games too, So I didn't really feel like I needed
to really you know, light the ground on fire with
my familiar coming out the gate. I just wanted to
kind of sit back and let this thing evolve over time,
and then having the budget for my savings and my
day job. I mean, if someone wants to do this,
I would say, firstly, don't quit your day job, even
if you're doing it solo. Don't do it. Like I

(01:45:50):
know it's hard, but like you know what, fail fail
responsibly for a while, you know, you know, cheaply, Like
you said, their show, that's a good one. So I
think the pre production aspect and having the budget really helps,

(01:46:13):
you know, and also just we have clear you know,
great talent and so like I didn't fight the talent, like,
you know, I knew that like it was already gonna
be jazzy in noir. But then I found Tyler, one
of the Tyler's, Tyler Meyer, and he has the best stuff,
Like he had literally the best and slot like he

(01:46:34):
just big band, live jazz and stuff. So I was like,
I'm definitely gonna lean into that. So that changes how
I budget from this moment. Okay, I'm gonna allocate this
amount for music and this and that. And it really
helped that I had a handful of really talented artists
and kind of just helping hone in on that vision
along the way, and we knew I can't take you know,

(01:46:55):
it starts with my idea, but it really takes off
when I give to the next you know. Like my so,
I one of my creative the one creative thing that
I do from the ground up is I do a
lot of the concept art for these characters. So like
every character in this game, I've done pretty much every
single one of them. And if they're not me, then

(01:47:16):
there's occasional like a variation for an artist will take.
I'll say like, hey, you know, take this this enemy
and then run with it in this direction, and they'll
kind of put their own spin on it. But the
base characters, every main character, they're pretty much all characters
that I kind of built up in this world in
my mind a long time before the game even got started. Yeah,
just back whenever I was just like thinking of like
I always love the idea of like I go back

(01:47:38):
to teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle and like their their action figures.
And now every character was just worthy of an action figure.
I wanted every single one, even if you can't afford it.

Speaker 3 (01:47:46):
You know.

Speaker 6 (01:47:47):
It's like every character had its own story just the
way I looked at it, you know, And I designed
the characters in my familiar with that kind of thought,
like every character has to have some sort of it's
got to be a cool character. I got to be well,
will want to bit take one of any one of
these guys and swap them out with the hero and
be okay, playing is this character.

Speaker 4 (01:48:06):
And so.

Speaker 6 (01:48:09):
Even before the pre production, I put a lot of
thought into a lot of these characters and a lot
of this you know, a lot of these outlines I did,
but I never made it substantial, like I never went
too far. It was always outlines and maps, and I mentally,
you know, go in all these different rabbit holes by myself.
But then I come out of that rabbit hole and
I take the best of that stuff. And then I
take those things and I bring them to my team

(01:48:30):
and I let them, you know, I hand it off
and give them the so they can go with that
template and make their own version. And they every time
that they my teams put their own spin on it,
it's only gotten better. It also helps to have a
creative director, Like not many people are fortunate enough in
indie space that most people are just everything, you know,

(01:48:52):
they're creative director, coder, art artists. I'm gonna look at
the Toby Fox situation, like you're talking about how it's
not like the best graphically this and that, like, but
it was great and charming in every aspect because that's
all he could do, you know, and he had some
things that held excel at but at the end of
the day, the art was great because of that, and
so absolutely I was able to find someone to fit

(01:49:14):
even one of those key roles. So as much as
I'd like to be like, oh yeah, it's just the
genius of being a crew of executive Like it's not
it's a social thing. It's a dance. This making a
game is you hand it to someone and then they
handed it back, and they hand it to you, and
then you get feedback from an outside person and then
it changes along the way, and like every iteration, it

(01:49:35):
could be a better version of itself. And I tried
to take that with my familiar and because of how
our approach, we were able to make a really strong
vertical slice. So if people don't know exactly it is
okay if I explained it to some people don't know
exactly vertical horizontal. So like vertical slice is like almost
out the game, out the package of what the game

(01:49:55):
is going to look like, and that's kind of what
our demo is. There's gonna be some things that changed
here and there. We might have another system or something
that we implement, but for the most part, if you
play the demo now, it's ninety percent of what that
part of the game's going to look like at the end.
Another way to develop things is like the Horizontalzontal slice,
So you build a bunch of different pieces at the
same time, which is faster, but it also runs the

(01:50:16):
risk of, well, if you change your mind on something
and then all of a sudden you have all this
work that you can't really piece together, and then at
the end you don't know if it's all going to
sneak together and kind of fit and clasp together in
the right way. So I took a vertical slice approach
from the beginning because we had the time, the budget,
the talent, and so from the beginning we will always
allowed to stand it. Even our first iteration when we

(01:50:36):
went to MAGFest the first time, I think is probably
in a better shape than most demos even released by like,
you know, some of these Triple A companies that have
you know, allow you to have some of these stories.
So by the time it was already ready to be
seen by you know, any group of people, it already
had such a substantial lable of polish that like, we
wouldn't get any negative feedback, we'd only get feedback that's like, well,

(01:50:58):
I'd like to do this also, or and this would
be nice to add this feature in there too. So
like it kind of just lucked out with our approach.
And since not every studio gets the luxury of kind
of having that budget and having that team right out
the gate, we got to hit the ground running. And
we've done so much pre production that when we were
hitting the ground running, we're sprinting now. Even though we're

(01:51:18):
all on different projects in different games and different jobs
and stuff, for the most part, we've got a really hot,
a hot and ready pipeline of art pipeline, a tech
pipeline of all these things, and they're just kind of
working together and they intersect in the kind of an
elegant way that it's just very minimal, you know.

Speaker 3 (01:51:37):
And so yeah, that's why I feel like amusing because
I saw it at Backfast what you said about it
being so polished, and that was one of the first
thing that I said to Derek too, And I was like, Derek,
there's this game called My Familiar. I saw Macfest because
where were you doing, uh, you know, hit point at

(01:51:58):
the time, And I was like, this is one of
the most polished game that I saw in the entire
you know, their entire space, right, So remember like in
the middle of that hall, that's where we have, you know,
all the indie games. And I was like, I have
all the indie games that I saw, like this is
one of the most polished games, and it's still like,
so I don't know how they did it right. And

(01:52:20):
two years later we're talking now and the the it's
it's answered. It's so wild man. Yeah, I'm still shared.
Yeah right, I want to share it with a lot
of the indie developers who you know, So today's easter
and and and sure a lot of people are visiting
their family and thank you so much again for spending

(01:52:42):
time here to talk to us too. And but you know,
we do have a lot of indie developers who come
and watch the show every now and then to see,
you know, whether or not they can like glean get
some kind of guidance, learned something. So I'm glad that
you touched on a lot of these things, but I
I do you feel like that's one of the things
that we don't necessarily touch on. It's just like the

(01:53:05):
method of wish things are produced matters a lot, and
not even just for adie developers, any developers, And any
time you get a group of professionals to work together,
like how you execute that project, it's extremely important too.
It's outcome and a lot of the success and failures.
I can name a couple of games that I can

(01:53:27):
definitely see they had some production issue. It goes back
to this sort of thing where you know, aside or
they didn't plan it out right, or sometimes maybe they
just had that luck one way or another. Like you know,
it kind of comes back to this. So I'm glad
that we got to talk about it. But speaking of
demo and speaking of you liking watching people play the

(01:53:50):
demo and play the game, you did mention that you
wanted to drop the password for the Steam bilt would
extended demo. Did you want to do that now since
we're kind of oh, yeah for sure.

Speaker 6 (01:54:01):
So yeah, if you wanted to download the demo on
Steam right now, there's a password that you can enter
is Bad with the capital B, lowercase a D and
then capital C for sevice. The bad savice twenty twenty four.
I haven't got around updating the password yet, so it's
still twenty twenty four. It's an old password for a

(01:54:23):
new build though, so it's exactly the build that y'all played,
So they'll be able to go through all the way
through the sewers and play the new boss and kind
of get that extra forty five minutes hour long dungeon content,
and also you can complain about what bugs you run
into and save me some time and effort for my
quality assurance.

Speaker 3 (01:54:41):
Yeah, can you type that to us in the cop
and chutley We'll add it into the description. That way
people can just go and copy paste. They'll get it
in and they'll I got it here. So is it
is all inward bad cevice?

Speaker 6 (01:54:53):
Yes, sir bad from most spaces. Ok. I went ahead
and put it in another chat right there.

Speaker 3 (01:54:58):
Okay, okay, let me let me do that hero quick.
So yeah, we'll get that into description. We'll make sure
folks have it.

Speaker 6 (01:55:05):
There we go.

Speaker 4 (01:55:05):
Okay, you do the world exclusive, worldwide premiere of Bad Saviour.

Speaker 3 (01:55:17):
All your past?

Speaker 6 (01:55:19):
Like why why would you choose that disgusting word? Is
a password? It's like, I don't know, it just fits.
It makes sense, it does. And if you have bad
Savicia one time, you'll rebirth the rest of your life.

Speaker 2 (01:55:30):
So someone in Chad asks, will it make my stomach hurt? Yes,
you're you'll be belly laughing to the point of a
tummy ache. BACKA, did you have any other questions before
I ask my traditional question?

Speaker 3 (01:55:47):
No, I I think that's pretty much it, sir.

Speaker 2 (01:55:50):
Fire away, all right, So I got one more question
that I do like to sort of round out the
the overall developer interview question process. So normally this only
goes on for like an hour. We've been talking for
about two, So thank you so much for spending so
much of your time with us. But the big question

(01:56:11):
that I always like to end on is, you know,
what's the question that I should have asked? Is there
anything that that you've just kind of like been tying
to talk about but haven't had a chance to like
fit it into the conversation at some point? What's something that,
in a better world I would have given you an
opportunity to talk about something I should have asked you.

Speaker 6 (01:56:34):
Honestly, I think you asked pretty much all the questions
that needed to be for my project. For me, it's
just more about I'm more interested in other games and
what they're going on, you know what I mean that
kind of thing. I guess probably if you're gonna ask
me something that I'd be interested is like what games
are you looking forward to indie wise? You know like that,
because to me, indie gaming is like a completely different category,

(01:56:56):
So like that's probably that would probably be my favorite
and you can learn a lot from what kind of
games people are kind of deads are looking at and
their peripherals. For some of these games are competition, but
also you know, you know, you have a lot of
camaraderie with these teams. So I'm really you.

Speaker 3 (01:57:12):
Know, rooting for a lot of let's hear call my familiar.
I don't know if you're aware it's it's a it's
it's a pretty nifty title. I think you should take
a look at.

Speaker 2 (01:57:20):
And so in that case, yeah, let's hear what are
some games that you are that are on your periphery
because because it's it's a good point. Uh, you know,
there's a lot of indie devs out there, and like
sometimes oh man, like last year I went and I
just tried to going through like a big Twitter search
of just like indie j RPG, indie dev pixel art,

(01:57:43):
you know, uh, just screenshots Saturday or whatever it is,
and and like just going through all those things looking
for upcoming indies that that fly under the radar. There
are so many, so which ones are on your radar?

Speaker 3 (01:57:56):
Uh?

Speaker 6 (01:57:57):
And uh, so we get the obvious ones your quartet
for which are you know, my guys are working on
those and their own capacities too, So like not only
is it like a shameless plug, it's actually true, Like
those games are awesome. Like, you know, if you're looking
for a Final Fantasy six style game but with like
an Octopath traveler like Wild Arms kind of like prove
multiple stories fused in one, that's poor tete. You know,

(01:58:19):
if you're looking for like a Breath of Fire kind
of like big Pick Flart isometric just you know, really
interesting intricate systems, you know, that's Forge of the Fay,
you know, with a Celtic you know, that's got a
unique spin too. I mean there's some Celtic games out there,
but you don't really see traditional like Western Celtic turn
based JRPGs. So there's that one.

Speaker 3 (01:58:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (01:58:38):
The two that are probably I'm most looking forward to
that aren't related to our studios in any way. Kingdoms
of the Dump for sure, Like we got to play
just watching the trailer. Oh you did, I see? I
wanted to. I didn't go with MAGFest this year because
it was just like it didn't work out for me.
I was having some health issues and family issues and

(01:58:59):
all this stuff. So I was like, Okay, maybe I'll
skip this one. But then of course the one time
I went Kingdoms of the Dump is there and I'm.

Speaker 3 (01:59:05):
Like, are they're set up? Was so cool? You missed it?
Was so good?

Speaker 2 (01:59:11):
Those guys are so cool. We actually I think we've
we've talked to them, well, we've talked to them definitely,
both at a convention. I wasn't at MAGFest, but I
got to play it at too many games. But but
when we did talk to them, I think we might
actually get to interview them at some point. I think
we've we've broached the subject, and we're just waiting for

(01:59:34):
an opportune moment to coincide with like a something that
they're doing, like an update or maybe a really stated
or something or something.

Speaker 3 (01:59:43):
Well, we'll figure it out.

Speaker 6 (01:59:44):
Then they're just trucking along making like an absurd amount
of content From the screenshots I've seen, like I'm afraid
to even look under the hood because then I'm gonna
have to like, holy cow, how do they make this
quality of content? You know, this much of it? And
it's just like I'll get inside my own head about
my finiiliar about stuff I need not but someone swinging
for the fence as well, but like, how well, yeah,

(02:00:09):
but it's not just that. It's like you're talking about
the fusion of everything, like oh that looks perfect, Like
it's just the world the sound. They even went with
the more traditional like chip tune kind of style of
music and stuff, which it just fits really well my familiar.
I went with the different because it just seemed to
match the personality with the big band stuff. I agree,
But I love what they did with their music. It's

(02:00:30):
like that haunting chip tune, Like every single track just
hits the music. The art that they did. It's like
cute but also macabre and kind of weird and strange.
And they got their one of their lead pixel artists
who does all that stuff. I think he just released
like a weird horror based game through Devolver. I forget
the name of it.

Speaker 1 (02:00:49):
But.

Speaker 3 (02:00:51):
Look Outside or yeah, yeah, yeah that's the one.

Speaker 6 (02:00:55):
What's that? That's so that's one of the artists from
Kingdoms of the Dump too. So like he just that
just turned to take it from a game jam and
turned into a full game. Like people out here inventing
games some dance or stuff here making games just on
the sideline. There's out of nowhere that are massive hits.

Speaker 4 (02:01:09):
You know.

Speaker 6 (02:01:10):
Another one I'm looking forward to is like the Hymn
to the Earless God by the guys who maybe like
Jimmy and the pulsating Mass and.

Speaker 3 (02:01:16):
Yeah, yes, yes, I just love the look of it.
We gotta look that back up. I remember the name,
see the nice thing, the trailer, all those, Yeah, we
touched on all those in the past too. That's why
the game rings the bell to you. I didn't look outside,
but I did.

Speaker 6 (02:01:35):
I did.

Speaker 3 (02:01:37):
I think we know we did look at lookoutside as well.

Speaker 6 (02:01:39):
Like it's like bugs and like weird stuff. I just
love it. Ties back to like the stuff and why
I have a bunch of familiars for characters, like I've
always gravitated towards non human creatures and stuff like that.
I feel like, not just bad guys, but just people
with different poralities and different like life perspectives. It's like
more interesting writing to see people resting with tough choy

(02:02:00):
from different perspectives. What does a monster do in this situation?
And what does a world look like when the race
of creatures is like, you know, more sociopathic and empathetic,
like we are as humans, you know, And that's kind
of what I got from the Earless God game is like,
you know, it's like an alien bug like civilization that
like there's no room for empathy, but yet there's probably

(02:02:23):
there might be these warm moments or something. There's something
more intriguing to it. So like he created a great
atmosphere just in those like simple trailers. And from the
footage I've seen same thing Kingdoms of the Dump, Like
the more non human, the weirder the characters are, the better.
If people are bad guys or morally ambiguous. I love
that kind of that's more interesting to me. I like

(02:02:43):
the kind of like characters that toe the line, you know,
between where you have to make up your own opinion
about them, as opposed to there's like, okay, this is
the typical shown an anime hero who's just always like, oh,
I'm just gonna get by and make friends to the face.

Speaker 4 (02:03:00):
You know.

Speaker 3 (02:03:03):
That doesn't for that reason. Yeah, but I okay, So
while you're in a hot stage, question for you, okay,
if since you're since you're being Andrew right now, if
we get to interview one of these guys, who would
you nominate? Who should? Who should? I have been a
cold king those that don't. Okay, I'm talking to Matt already.

Speaker 6 (02:03:25):
I've just been I've been in love with it even
before my familiar really got it. When we're in pre production,
even I was just looking at their stuff, partly transpiration,
but also to like, I just wanted to make sure
I wasn't we weren't doing the same kind of things,
and I think that we're doing different things, but we
had similar ideas, and so like I feel like kind
of like a kindred spirit with I rarely have talked

(02:03:46):
with them, you know, maybe through a discord message here
and there, but like just by looking at their project
from a bird's eye view, from a consumer's point of view,
I see that they find a lot of the same
themes and feeling like they had the same kind of
sentiments in their art that it's genuine. But like finding
beauty in the mundane, in the non beautiful things in
the in the world we live in, you know, not

(02:04:06):
just we can't live in a perfect world. Not everything's
gotta be a perfect Tolkien esque fantasy. It's okay to
have some gritty, dark, eerie places that just make you
feel uncomfortable at time, but also peppered in with some lighthearted,
warm moments, you know, with humor in there. And and
I think that Kingdoms of the Dump, I'm just even

(02:04:27):
as a development points, I want to know like what
they're doing, Like everything about their project is just so
intriguing to me, and what they've done that like it definitely,
you know, it's one of those trailers they're just haunting,
you know. I read it, I watch it, and I'm like,
I have to play the game day one. I'm buying it.
I'm saying goodbye to my kids and wife for forty

(02:04:49):
eight hours or whatever, and I'm just gonna sit down
and play through the whole thing and drink a bunch
of you know, green tea. You know that that's that's
my goal when that game comes out, and then not
many games make me feel all that way, especially like
you know nowadays, like it's there's there's so much saturation,
so many amazing things, but there's nothing that just like
where I have that sense of, like you not even

(02:05:10):
the hyping responsibility aspect, just like the something that sets
my heart on fire, like I gotta get this thing.
I want to buy this game, this cover art, this
one thing. Kingdoms of the Dump has that for me,
you know as a.

Speaker 3 (02:05:23):
I'm gonna lip this. I think I'm gonna send it
over to Matt so their entire team can see this.
They were recovering from the conflu the last time I
talked to them back in like late gins.

Speaker 6 (02:05:34):
Oh, they didn't know what you know, I actually have.

Speaker 2 (02:05:38):
I do have one more question because it's just been
it's been stuck in the back of my mind. I mean,
today is today is Easter. It is also four twenty
and and that's got me thinking about whoop us here
the protagonist here he what is he inspired by exactly?
Because he reminds he's like a cracked out easter bunny
in some ways, but in other ways he reminds me

(02:06:01):
of thus from a real monsters.

Speaker 3 (02:06:03):
It's like, what is he exactly?

Speaker 6 (02:06:06):
That's actually very you know that a lot of that's
you could say that about twelve different things, and you're
actually be really right. It really is a malgamation of
like a lot of things in that time period. Yeah,
the all real monster kind of style was one of
the things we had on our like you know, our
dream board kind of like inspiration board stuff, you know,
Nin Turtles Straight Fight or that that was up there,
So he is more of an amalgamation of things in

(02:06:30):
which world we kind of like there's animals, there's like
object head type people, there's like you know things. It
doesn't have to be like a creature, so to speak,
but it could also be a mundane creature, a mythical creature.
There's all these different variations of different things. We kind
of made this rule set of like what kind of
creatures exist, And he is supposed to represent kind of
just like a like an amalgamation, like a wish from

(02:06:50):
someone who doesn't know exactly their identity or who they want,
but at the end it ends up making their identity
along the way. Rabbit, rat, goat horn. He's got like
impish kind of goblin like features too, So he's there
was at one point that I think we had like
a what is the dog of French whatever, not French poodle,

(02:07:11):
like the oh Boston, that's the one, the Boston, the
big old like hideous.

Speaker 3 (02:07:15):
Looking Oh yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:07:18):
At one point we had that kind of a face
kind of like super imposed on there for a little
bit for some of the contact part. So he's he's
just an amalgamy. He's supposed to actually make you ask
that question, like war is this thing. It's a rat,
it's a goblin, it's a rabbit.

Speaker 2 (02:07:31):
I see a bit of like the rank from Donnie
Darko also in him.

Speaker 6 (02:07:35):
Like yes, actually very much, there's a character that's inspired
by kind of like that. I love Donnie Darko by
the way, I mean everyone should love that movie. But uh,
that was that wasn't one of my top five Alien
and the original Alien Donnie Donald Donnie Darko, that one, yeah,
for sure, But like I like the idea of also
just the down the rabbit hole Isukai, So it's like

(02:07:55):
kind of like a weird like rabbit, you know. So
it is just my version of almost like a dystopian
Alice in Wonderland.

Speaker 7 (02:08:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:08:03):
Where the thing about wish is it's not just about
a representation of like the culture. It's about like, you know,
all the promises and wishes we were made. We were
promised as the kids, like you know, all the fairy
tales and if you just do this, you just get
to go to college, you just do all these things
that just kind of blow up in your face the
older you get and you realize that those are just
kind of like hopeful wishing kind of things. Yeah, and

(02:08:24):
a lot of that represents a lot of that kind
of like like we have, you know, for instance, like
you know, a lot of fairy tales. One of the
chapters is nursery Crimes. I mean, we make no joke
that a lot of these things are direct spoofs of
Western Eastern folklore. The main villain gang is bro Kai,
which is like the Yokai, but like with the bro
biker kind of attitude, like the like the Japanese I

(02:08:46):
don't know how to pronounce it, like whatever gangs. It
starts of the bee. There's like this old like fifties
Ozu kai or something weird.

Speaker 3 (02:08:55):
Yeah, there you go. Like I love that style that
the biker gangs basically.

Speaker 6 (02:09:00):
Oh yes, and they kind of took like some stuff
from Western and made their own kind of biker gang
culture over there. And so it's almost like I love
that it's like a parody of a parody of a parody.
These cultures are just kind of bouncing forth, and so
that's why I kind of wanted to bring back the
Yokai where and so like there's two characters. One of
them is you know more you know, Caucasian and the

(02:09:23):
other character is an Asian person from the Eastern, So
there's literally the Western and Eastern and so like this
is kind of an amalgamation of all of these fairy
tales bleeding into this kind of dystopian version of like America. Like,
this isn't the wish world your promised, this is the
wish world you would get if wish worlds exist. There's
a lot of selfish wishes. Sometimes wishing for you know,

(02:09:46):
a life changing thing is there's a lot more wishes
for just a hamburger or just you know, a new
pack of cigarettes, or I wish I didn't have to
I could call in sick today at work.

Speaker 4 (02:09:54):
You know.

Speaker 6 (02:09:54):
There's a lot of wishes that are just kind of yeah,
you know, there's there's a lot more of those, I
think than someone who knows exactly.

Speaker 3 (02:10:01):
What more mundane than grand wishes that I wish I
could play my familiar right now. That's the that's a
grand wish. It two grand back. Okay, So there you go.
That's that's the I think that's the Ultimately, that was
the answer that we were looking for. What Derek's question,

(02:10:22):
I like, what should have right there? Like that's that's
the unique thing.

Speaker 2 (02:10:26):
That, you know, that felt good. But I did also
like getting to talk about other games too.

Speaker 3 (02:10:32):
That's awesome, all right, yeah, thank you?

Speaker 2 (02:10:34):
So all right covers everything that I had on my
list to to kind of talk about at this point
if you so so. Last time we you know, somebody
stuck around to the rest of the show and that
was cool, and you can do that if you'd like.
But I totally understand if you've been on a two
hour joom call with somebody, if you just wanted to
like relax and take a break and maybe just relax

(02:10:56):
and watch the rest of the show.

Speaker 3 (02:10:57):
Whichever is cool, whichever you prefer to do. We till
presson one hour. Oh we did.

Speaker 6 (02:11:03):
I'm fine the ship and just kind of like being
a part of flying on Yall's wall if you don't mind,
that can. But at the same time, I would like
to take a quick bathroom break and get a couple
of you.

Speaker 3 (02:11:14):
Actually do want to do that too, So Derek, are
you gonna hold down to four?

Speaker 2 (02:11:18):
Well, if we run and you know, do a bathroom race,
you know what, maybe maybe I'm just gonna go get
a drink too.

Speaker 3 (02:11:27):
How about we go on a f K and then yeah,
we'll come back in like a couple of minutes next
to our to our other scene. Hero quick, everybody done this,
and then I'll jump back into the madness. Okay, all

(02:12:22):
right everybody, Sorry about that.

Speaker 2 (02:12:25):
Yeah, I figure that can just be the brief intermission.
Maybe i'll uh just cut that out for the audio version.
The most professional podcast on the entire innet exactly exactly.

Speaker 3 (02:12:37):
Thank you so much for sticking around here, guys.

Speaker 2 (02:12:40):
And I hope that you're having a good Easter Sunday there,
so I'll just solo this one for a minute here, guys.

Speaker 3 (02:12:50):
How are you guys doing most professional podcast? Hey, Fabian, welcome.

Speaker 2 (02:12:56):
I know, right, first of our kind, so still alive.
You mentioned earlier More Door. Hmmm, I think you might
have been referring to when he was saying like how
not every RPG needs to be sort of that tolkien
esque like high fantasy and bright and colorful. And I
think your question about more Door was specifically kind of

(02:13:19):
talking about like, well, more Door is like not bright
and cheerful. But I think he's just saying it doesn't
have to be like a fantasy world. That was my understanding,
That was my take. But there's mister Baku, good to
see me. Hello, welcome back.

Speaker 3 (02:13:33):
So I do want to for a question for our
viewers and all the other folks who may watch this
later on, and that is, if there's any kind of
indie RPG that you're looking forward to, please post them
in the commons section. Definitely.

Speaker 2 (02:13:54):
All right, So I'll switch back to here and well,
that way we can see when Preston gets back and
then we can get rolling. Man, I don't know about you,
but this was such such a fun interview.

Speaker 3 (02:14:07):
You know. We tried to do that for everyone, you
know what I mean. I mean they were, They're all
really fun.

Speaker 2 (02:14:13):
But sometimes sometimes I can't bring myself to stop asking
questions because this one just I I played this. I
played this for so long. It was like a four
hour stream that was supposed to like this is what
I was saying about earlier, when like I was told
by President, it's like, oh, some people will kind of

(02:14:33):
just blast through it in like an hour and a half,
two hours for the for that demo. I'm like, I'm
playing this for like four hours.

Speaker 3 (02:14:40):
Yeah, weird streamers a different breed of people. I think,
like most most gamers don't go through and it's fine,
Like it's it's what they do. Like it's not like
one's better than another. But we we like to take
we really like to take a sweet time and go
through yeah things, just take it all in.

Speaker 2 (02:15:01):
That's a solid pick there, Felix threads of time. He says, Oh,
that would be.

Speaker 3 (02:15:05):
A good time. Yeah, yeah, thres the time. Yeah, I've
got a lot, I've I've reached out to a couple
of developers and uh, yeah, So the thing that I
want to share with you all is, you know, when
it comes to these interviews, we try to do these

(02:15:25):
interviews around major events, right, so my familiar you know,
they were going to do a kickstarter you know, but
you guys heard some things fell out and work out.
But that's why I got scheduled the way they did.
Right with Seed of Nostalgia, they launched their kickstarter like
three four days before interview, right, So it's it's that

(02:15:48):
same kind of thing. So when it comes to other developers, Uh,
it's not that interviews can't happen, it's more like we're
just kind of waiting for a good time, like yeah,
you know, to to.

Speaker 2 (02:16:00):
Talk about it, waiting for a good moment to help
bring them some hype when they need it.

Speaker 3 (02:16:04):
Yeah, absolutely, And like there's kind of like a threshold
effect which you may hear other people, Hey yeah, welcome
back man. Uh where Basically, like you want to put
all of your marketing like around the same time to
like push to a certain threshold. If you do, if
you spend the same effort over time, you're not going
to get as much like effect as you concentrate it

(02:16:27):
to break through a certain threshold. So that's kind of
what we try to do. Hit that critical mass. Yeah,
hit that critical mass absolutely. Yeah, all right, So we're
just asking for chat to give us their most most
anticipated yea Indish And you know, there's a lot of

(02:16:48):
folks who end up watching this like the next day
or the day after, and they can leave it in
the comments, so you can take a look to see
what other people are throwing in there as for your reference,
for your research, but you know, and for your benefit,
we're actually going to be looking at a lot of
indie games. Oh yes, right, And the reason is because

(02:17:09):
there was something called the Indie Live Expo which happened
last week hours before our show, and where they showcased
more than one hundred indie games, and I'm like, guys,
I'm not a miracle quarter. I can't do I saw
like one or two games. No one, not one or two.
I saw like five games. I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna

(02:17:31):
talk about these five, but like, I promise that we'll
talk about it this week. I finally had a chance
to watch through that Indie Live thing and noted a
good amount of games, So we'll talk about those. But first,
let's talk about the games that are coming out this week,
starting with a game that's from the creators of the
dunk On Nomba series, from the Two Kill Games comes.

(02:17:55):
It's a new tactical RPG called The one hundred line
Last Defense Academy. The player follows a character named taking
Me Simeo, an average teenager. Of course, it always happens
to the most average of teenagers whose world gets turned
upside down when freakish monsters attacked the city out of nowhere,
launching all of assault and taking me and fourteen other

(02:18:18):
students are now tasked to defend the Last Defense Academy
for one hundred days. That's the premise story. Let's take
a look at the trailer. All right, Hey, this is Preston.
You were all transferred to this academy for a very
special reason. This is the guys. Yeah, it's not a

(02:18:49):
it's part of their series that they are still working out.
SPIKEE not no longer being affiliated with Spike turns off
like they broke away? Oh did they? Yeah, they're not
part of spect I did not realize whatever.

Speaker 6 (02:19:10):
Those little like weird little ghost guys were.

Speaker 2 (02:19:13):
A little mascot looking guys. Every game, every good game
needs a mascot, right everything.

Speaker 3 (02:19:25):
It's your futures stand.

Speaker 4 (02:19:27):
This is where we start.

Speaker 2 (02:19:29):
So that's supposed to be an average teenager.

Speaker 3 (02:19:31):
I don't know, man, Yeah, just average teenager. I shouldn't
feel way more disappointed.

Speaker 6 (02:19:38):
Teenagers old like right, rip.

Speaker 2 (02:19:45):
Power somewhere, average teenager.

Speaker 3 (02:19:50):
You have to have the most average teenagers.

Speaker 6 (02:19:53):
Working to you together. I want each and every Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:19:56):
But you can see the art styles just like straight
out of absolutely the people we care about it because
it's the same, it's basically the same team.

Speaker 6 (02:20:07):
You think you can screw with us assholes.

Speaker 3 (02:20:13):
So much gosh, I know, oh so much death, all
of these dying. It is the game. So yeah, it's
not a duncan nome play games? Sorry, I shouldn't say
that because it's not Dun developer. Yes, it's the same
development team, so you're gonna get that.

Speaker 2 (02:20:33):
Yeah, I'd like to see some of the gameplay, though,
I mean, this is this is good and all, but
least Okay, So there is a gameplay trailer, but it's
like seven minutes long.

Speaker 3 (02:20:41):
Wrong, wrong, Derek bringing back from the Pocket dimension. Yeah,
there's a there's a gameplate uh trailer, but it's like
seven minutes long. So I'm like, okay, you know what,
if you guys are interested in seeing the gameplay, definitely
check out the gameplay trailer. But what kind of play
is it?

Speaker 4 (02:21:00):
Is it?

Speaker 3 (02:21:00):
It's not a turn based RPG? Is it a tactical RPG?
It's a tactic so it is turn based. Yes, it's tactical. Yeah,
oh okay, yeah, yeah, it's the tactical ARPG.

Speaker 6 (02:21:10):
A lot of those games that like look like their
action but they're actually turn based coming.

Speaker 3 (02:21:14):
Out now it seems like, yeah, it's pretty cool. Well,
I mean they they're well, the tactical battle is only
like parts of the game, but then there are other
sections that are more like visual novels, but not without
being able to make choices and make some kind of management.
So I don't know how much of a percentage of

(02:21:35):
the game is tactical RPG, but it's like there's a
lot of things that's rolled in. Given that as a situation,
I would expect that there's a lot more behind the scene.
Uh So, don't expect this to be like a tactics
older kind of Deer where it's like, yeah, you just
manage your army and then you go fire and then

(02:21:55):
move on the stage. Like it's probably going to be
a lot more heavy in other air than tactical RPG.
Uh yeah, but as far as the battles concerned, that's
that's where the tactical RPG comes in. Anyway, this game
is coming out on April twenty fourth, and it's just
a couple of days on the Switch n PC via Steam,
so please check that out. And I think I don't know,

(02:22:17):
but I think the demos available on Steam. So yeah,
but anyways, check it out on Steam if you want
to see what this is about. Pretty next one, Oh boy,
everyone's excited about the next game, mister derekty Honors.

Speaker 2 (02:22:28):
Let's talk about some some indie RPGs starting now.

Speaker 3 (02:22:35):
No no, but funny, funny thing. Uh, there's a.

Speaker 2 (02:22:39):
Very much anticipated RPG here, Claire Obscure Expedition thirty three
by sand Full Interactive is finally imminently going to be released. Here, guys,
this three D turn based RPG that is a It
tells the story of a world where a priest, a paintress,
not a priest does a paintress us paints a cursed

(02:23:01):
number on once a year, and everyone of that age
turns to smoke and fades away. And players will be
following this expedition to destroy the priestess so that she
may paintress thank you, it's not a word you see
very often, destroy this paintress so she may never paint

(02:23:24):
death again.

Speaker 3 (02:23:26):
And we have a that's a proper term in the game.
Let's that is referred to as the paintress. Well, that's
it's been sixty seven years. That's a paintress to remember,
thank you. You see that like center and that's the paintress. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

(02:23:51):
After Expedition have tried to stop Dude, the future.

Speaker 2 (02:23:57):
How ridiculous is it that we're calling this an indie
RP reluctant to call this game, I mean, but it
is like in the technical sense, yes, but it is
at the same time though, I think that at least
I think this is one of those exceptions that like

(02:24:18):
proves the rule, you know, like it's it's like so
atypical in its in its presentation. It's it's definitely like
been independently funded by like a wealthy dude who's just
like I want this game, and I get that that's
that's wild, but holy cow man.

Speaker 6 (02:24:40):
Yeah, there's almost be like a different term for that
kind of even stuff like for my familiar like having
a budget and having a team versus like an individual
like and I think of indie indies. I think of like,
you know, one two developers, just people getting together and
kind of doing this in their time, trying to you know,
in a tough position and they want to make a
really different game or something.

Speaker 7 (02:25:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:25:02):
Now it's like there's the indie industry itself should have
like its own subcategories of like its own triple A
version and own double A kind of stuff. Because yeah,
because like look.

Speaker 2 (02:25:12):
At Larry and Studios, Like they're a tiny, tiny team, right,
but they made Bouldersgate three, and that's I don't know
if they're technically an indie, but like they did something
like wild for their size, So there's definitely like this
feels like a Bouldersgate three kind of ventures kind of

(02:25:34):
what I'm leaning toward, like not like I don't know it,
because there's like the garage developer indie, and then there's
like the we've rented out the the you know, this
skyscraper and filled it with developers for a while kind
of indie.

Speaker 6 (02:25:52):
Like Caviar and Martini's like, this is going to be
a Monocles there, Yeah, no time.

Speaker 3 (02:26:04):
Also, we've got the was it Lasani in in chat
who who was telling you about this game a lot
long ago? Piauce The game art style reminds them of
Dark Souls.

Speaker 2 (02:26:15):
So hmmm yeah, okay that was a direct direct message
to Preston, which was awesome. Oh from Lexani and chat
there they said that they were telling you about this
game not too long ago because it reminded them of
dark Souls.

Speaker 3 (02:26:33):
Is turning. He's like, which one is this? Alan? Alan?
There we go.

Speaker 6 (02:26:39):
All right, oh yeah, yeah, okay, I remember now, yeah,
I go with you. Yeah. To me, it almost kind
of looked like Lost Odyssey is like, you know one
the Xbox one.

Speaker 3 (02:26:48):
Ward's kind of got that yeah, like yeah early like other.

Speaker 6 (02:26:52):
Worldly kind of feel to it where everyone's kind of tense,
but the rules you don't know what they are kind
of I think you kind of remind like something then
mixed with that number thing kind of gave me like
the idea of death note sort of like you know,
like the yeah like I like the intrigue of both
of those kind of things.

Speaker 2 (02:27:10):
Definitely, now this game, everybody. This one's also coming out
just a few days from now on the twenty fourth,
is coming to PlayStation five, the Xbox series, and PC
via Steam same.

Speaker 3 (02:27:21):
Day and its same day. It's gonna be a busy day.
It's gonna be it's gonna be a hard day. Oh man,
it's it's It's good to be an RPG fan. I'm
telling you as like, this is sort of like if
there's like a Golden age, I think back in like
because a lot of people say like the Golden Age
like Superintendo PlayStation and there's like a second Golden age

(02:27:42):
just like ray about now like where like especially a
lot of the indies are coming in to fill the
void too, and good quality, but also the you know,
the the big studios are starting to understand that they're
they've been resting on their lores for a little bit
too much, so they're like stepping up. We're hitting that time.

Speaker 2 (02:28:01):
I feel we're hitting definitely a renaissance.

Speaker 3 (02:28:04):
Time, I think RPG fan. So now that we've talked
about games that were coming out this week, let's move
on to new game announcements. And again I did mention
that a lot of d's or actually all of them
were showcase in something called the Indie Live Expo, which
we briefly touched on last Sunday. Because guess what the

(02:28:27):
xpo happened last Sunday. Hours before show the showcased like
hundreds of indies, maybe post undred indies. Yeah, it was
like just like rapid fire, like three four seconds per indie.
It talks wow, next one. It's super fast. So I
sat there and I watch through all of them and

(02:28:48):
then like made a note of all the interesting ones
and then found their respective like long form trailer and
then do a little bit more research and weed out
some more things. The list that I had started, I
think with like fifteen games, and that like shrink it
down because I know that we're not gonna have time
to go through all of them. So here it is

(02:29:08):
the games that I think you guys should definitely know about,
starting with this one title from developer yody Oji that
is a size scrolling adventure game called in a World
After People. And this particular game was annoying to look
for the trailer because I think there is like another

(02:29:29):
like History Channel series or something called The World After People. Right,
So when something like searching for the trailer like that
series keep pumping off like no, no, no, I want
to find a freaking game trailer, so I have to
look for in Japanese. I finally found it. So what
is this game about? Nearly a thousand years after a
mysterious plague wiped out all of humanity alone, Road RelA

(02:29:51):
under the world, seeking an inevitable seeking the world fragments
of memories of humanity. It is a like a heartwarming
on the touching Philly kind of game. I think it's
gonna make you cry. Let's see, let's see the trailer. Okay,
it's gonna be one of those games. Oh yeah, it's
that kind of game. I love to pick the arts.

(02:30:15):
Oh yeah, there's a little puzzles, uh huh, but you
can see like a size scrolling adventure. He plays a robot.
You walk around, you pick up notes you find, has
a head.

Speaker 6 (02:30:33):
In King's Quest style games I used to play.

Speaker 3 (02:30:35):
Oh yeah, question for Glory is called it's a very
short trailer. Wrong scene, Derek Preston, Welcome back Preston.

Speaker 6 (02:30:46):
Uh, just embodied voice if you'll need me to No,
it's fine.

Speaker 3 (02:30:51):
We want to see your pretty face unless you don't
want to be on the scene, which is fine. So.

Speaker 4 (02:30:56):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (02:30:57):
There is no release time frame for this game as
if yet, but it is being developed for PC and
they will on Steam. Go wishless, guys, if you see
any of these games that you know you're interested in,
all the games that we talked about, the all available
on Steam to wishless and just make a little note.
I like wish listen games so that I don't forget them,

(02:31:17):
right because there's so many, so I wish listen and
then like whenever they're coming out, I was like, oh, yeah,
this game, I complaally forgot about it. Now that I
know is coming out, I get an announcement.

Speaker 2 (02:31:27):
Indeed, good indies are like the Breakfast Club. Don't you
forget about them? I'm sorry, I all right, I had
to Okay, let's.

Speaker 6 (02:31:37):
Go ahead, and I was like, wait, that's not profound.

Speaker 3 (02:31:41):
Oh, don't let them for you. Don't let them for you.

Speaker 2 (02:31:46):
It's all puns. It's puns all the way down. So
this next one comes from developer Fahrenheit two thirteen and
Scrap comes a new horror game. You did this to Me,
You did this to me, A new horror game called
Do Not Play. This game is a copy of the

(02:32:08):
browser game GEM G lower E Capitol M, which was
rumored to be banned on the Internet in the two thousands.
The provider was not involved with the creation of GEM
and is not responsible for any events that may occur
if you end up playing this game. So whatever you do,

(02:32:32):
do not play.

Speaker 3 (02:32:34):
Is the name of the game. So this game is
modeled after like that air of like flash games that
are very popular in like the two thousands. Uh huh oh.
And I think that's sort of like the main aesthetics

(02:32:57):
and sort of like the lore behind it around those
times where you know, it's like earlier parts of like
the Internet where you have like you know, chechen forums
and flash games and what are those what are those
like cha mails? Or Yeah, I feel like it's playing

(02:33:22):
on you know, glitchy aesthetics, those things of like yes, yes.

Speaker 6 (02:33:38):
You gotta have a clown of.

Speaker 3 (02:33:40):
Knives have of course, Derek's favorite genre.

Speaker 6 (02:33:50):
I gotta say is a business first kind of guy.
It's an interesting take to tell people not to play
your game.

Speaker 3 (02:33:56):
It's like the big red button, big red button, screaming.

Speaker 6 (02:34:03):
I don't know how much of that y'all get here.
I had a different kind of jumps here.

Speaker 1 (02:34:12):
There.

Speaker 2 (02:34:12):
Yeah, I mean that's that's that's wonderful. I cannot wait
to not play it. Uh, sometime in twenty twenty six.
It's currently being developed for PC and it's available on Steam.
Though if they really didn't want you to play it,
they probably shouldn't have put it there.

Speaker 3 (02:34:26):
Just say, oh, big red button. Here's a big red button.

Speaker 6 (02:34:29):
But I wonder how many people will read that and
be like okay. So it's like I would I would
run like rap in? How many people am I denying this?

Speaker 2 (02:34:40):
I'll have to try that on our next stream just
to find out.

Speaker 3 (02:34:43):
Do not watch this stream? Yep, I take us a
personal challenge.

Speaker 6 (02:34:47):
Uh, bloody knife clown bind you like this though? For
the thumbnail?

Speaker 3 (02:34:52):
Oh jeez? Yeah, the next game we have is called Killer. Yes,
it's not a horror game this time. It is a
three D adventure mystery game with multiple endings by Black Tangerine.
Let's take a look at that trailer and see what
we find this. I believe Black Tenderine is a Korean developer.

(02:35:13):
This time. It's got some really nice aesthetics to it.
You say, it's not a horror, No, it's not a horror.
It's a mystery game, but not a horror game. Yeah, okay,
and maybe thefts, but it's you know, because it's a
mystery game.

Speaker 6 (02:35:34):
This might be the first time I've seen like a
serious art style paper Mario kind of este.

Speaker 7 (02:35:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:35:43):
I think you might be right. I mean, bug Fables
was pretty serious in some ways, but not like that.

Speaker 6 (02:35:50):
Not with this one. Looks like it's going to lean
into a little bit more darker though.

Speaker 3 (02:35:54):
Yeah, it's it's probably gonna get dark, but not a horror.

Speaker 6 (02:36:00):
Streetly like that. What's that Princess game? Slay the Princess
from Slatinity?

Speaker 3 (02:36:06):
So good? Have you played Princes Me?

Speaker 6 (02:36:10):
No? I have not yet.

Speaker 3 (02:36:12):
That game is so good, you guys got to try it.

Speaker 6 (02:36:15):
I have a copy of it about a bunch of
things from Serenity Forge recently, so I'm kind of waiting
for all to get here.

Speaker 3 (02:36:21):
Let's go. That game is so good, so that is
called Killer uh and I think all the characters in
that in their their name starts with law, so that's
it's kind of a good play on board. Uh yeah.
And that this game is going to be available in

(02:36:42):
May of this year, so in just about a month,
but they didn't give me an exact day for some
strange reason. So in any case, hopefully it's not delayed.

Speaker 4 (02:36:49):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (02:36:50):
And it's going to be available on PCPs, just like
all the other games. All right. Well, Next up from
developer Geno and publisher Neo Wiz comes a new side
scrolling puzzle platform or called Goodbye Soul, as in the
country's capital city, Soul. Yes, yes, so uh yeah, let's

(02:37:13):
let's check out Goodbye Soul. You don't wis for anyone
who finds that name familiar?

Speaker 4 (02:37:19):
Is I do?

Speaker 3 (02:37:20):
Publisher for Eliza p Okay, Yeah, so not like a
tiny like no name Eliza p was that was like
the Souls like that was pretty sweet, right yeah? And
now based on Pochio. Oh yes, yeah, this is this

(02:37:41):
is good Bye Soul. I do believe it's about a
person who is trying to escape from the city.

Speaker 6 (02:37:51):
Hm hmm.

Speaker 3 (02:37:53):
This sort of pulls apocalyptic space. I I like the
juxtaposition of like this slow like rockabilly or or kind
of surfer rock m against the post apocalyptic vibe. Yeah,

(02:38:14):
it's a it's.

Speaker 6 (02:38:15):
Kind of got its own like nostalgia, kind of like
I leaned into the like older nostalgia.

Speaker 3 (02:38:20):
This is more like the well, like that surf rock
like Dick Dale. Not quite Dickdale, but.

Speaker 6 (02:38:30):
Yeah, fact, when all of this was doing all those movies,
like the surfer movies and.

Speaker 5 (02:38:35):
Stuff, Yeah, Blue Hawaii and all that, looks like there's
some kind of coup happening over there.

Speaker 3 (02:38:48):
Military cup hashtag relatable hashtag, very relatable, especially if you
know what's going on in like South Korea right now.

Speaker 6 (02:38:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 7 (02:39:00):
Yeah, it's too bad because I'm a I'm a big
fan of soul food, but I do like me some
dupchin and gogogi.

Speaker 3 (02:39:13):
Actually you say that. I literally had koreem you for
dinner today. Dude. It's so good.

Speaker 2 (02:39:18):
It is so underrated, Like everybody's like, you know, Japanese food,
Chinese food, you know, taig, but very few people know.

Speaker 3 (02:39:27):
Oh yeah, that's that's where it's at. Okay. Soul was
called The Soul Goodbye Soul.

Speaker 2 (02:39:38):
There's no release date for it right now. It is
currently being developed for PC and there are demos available
on Steam, so go check that out.

Speaker 3 (02:39:47):
Yes, all right. Next up, we've got a game from
a distany destiny bit and it gets this. They called
it a spaghetti anime tactical mac RPG called Nitro jen Omega.
This is good announced. In this game, you'll lead a
crew to mercenaries through the wastelands in a world where

(02:40:08):
humanity lost the war against the machines interest and the
machine has won. It's like Terminator with anime. All right,
let's just shake this out. Then this game looks good
like it? I was like, oh yeah, well, I picked
only the things that I thought were really cool.

Speaker 2 (02:40:29):
So is it called a spaghetti anime because it's like
made in Italy?

Speaker 3 (02:40:34):
I wonder a spaghetti western made in Italy? Yes that
maybe this is made in Italy.

Speaker 6 (02:40:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:40:44):
They were made in like the deserts of Italy in
order to because they were like cheaper I.

Speaker 3 (02:40:48):
Think at the time than filming them. Do you look
at that cell shade.

Speaker 2 (02:40:53):
Oh yeah, kind of reminds me a little bit of
the presentation of the.

Speaker 5 (02:41:02):
Ah.

Speaker 2 (02:41:03):
There was a dog fighting RPG that I played recently.
Mm hmm, well not that recently. Dang it, I can't
remember the name right now.

Speaker 3 (02:41:15):
I am very interested. It's it's hitting all the little
like checkboxes that is really cool. I like the mecha
stuff and you know, and and you got what turn
based RPG count me in, I mean not time turn
based tactical RPG flair kind of yeah. Well, now, the

(02:41:40):
early access for this game is coming this sprint. It
is currently being developed on PC. In fact, all the
games releases a PC steam Uh so, yeah, wish listen
if you think that this game looks interesting, because otherwise
you may forget it just because there's so many of them.

Speaker 2 (02:41:58):
Okay, this is interesting, This has my interest. This is
the one that I picked already. I just saw like
a screen shop and then I looked at the name
of this title.

Speaker 3 (02:42:08):
Okay, I picked it on purpose, I did it. Yes,
it was all right.

Speaker 2 (02:42:12):
He gives me the horror, but he gives me the
interesting too, all right. So this one's coming from New
More Games. They've just announced a new turn based RPG
called The Backworld. This game allows you to clip between
cracks of reality and play through the game in nonlinear ways.

(02:42:32):
Have you ever heard of the back rooms? Guys, the
the internet phenomenon of the back rooms and liminal spaces.

Speaker 3 (02:42:39):
Look into that.

Speaker 6 (02:42:40):
I've seen like those concept games where it's like you
gets stuck in like subway or a giant pole or
yeah whatever.

Speaker 3 (02:42:47):
This kind of plays I think into that sort of thing.
Let's absolutely does.

Speaker 2 (02:42:52):
Let's check out this chart so you don't want to
get caught in the back rooms. Whoa, okay, okay, okay, yeah,
definitely seeing some obvious inspirations here, and I'm here for it.

Speaker 4 (02:43:11):
Uh huh.

Speaker 3 (02:43:14):
I would admit this is also slightly horror RPG. But
you know, oh you son of a No, no, no,
it's fine, it's fine. This is the back room kind
of you had no choice.

Speaker 2 (02:43:26):
Sure, But that's also you know that the music, it
definitely fills in the vibe. It's it's doing the.

Speaker 3 (02:43:37):
The glitching. Oh yeah, that's definitely mother three ish h
and it's uh huh yeah.

Speaker 4 (02:43:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:43:49):
I have done Hit Point long enough to know Derek's
taste in games sometimes and I'm like throte this over
to Derek.

Speaker 2 (02:43:57):
Take a look at this, I mean, what is what
is I guess if not a you know, ethereal horror.

Speaker 3 (02:44:04):
You know so you do love horror games. That was right?

Speaker 2 (02:44:09):
Oh creeps? Yeah, yeah, this this gives me some of
the I don't like. But at least you can fight
back against it. I mean that's that's so.

Speaker 3 (02:44:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (02:44:26):
I think like the turn based stuff kind of takes
a hit to horror for me, which is.

Speaker 3 (02:44:30):
In a good way, like, you know, like it softens
the blow.

Speaker 6 (02:44:33):
Yeah, it's the same thing. It's like, yeah, kind of
like micromanaging your you know, your every movement.

Speaker 3 (02:44:42):
Yeah, I get that. That can get that can get
very tiring very quickly when you have to keep adjusting
uh stuff and like inventory and stuff.

Speaker 2 (02:44:52):
A man, that looks pretty cool. So you can expect
to be able to play this game and Q one
of twenty two six according to the developers, and it's
being developed by PC as.

Speaker 3 (02:45:05):
Long as not delayed.

Speaker 2 (02:45:06):
I mean, well, I don't know who who can say
I I you know, it's it's it'll be done when
it's done. Dude, I'm still I'm okay, let me be real,
I'm still waiting to hear an update on Oddity. Holy cow,
have you guys been following that at all? AKA and
once upon time the mother for fan Project they renamed

(02:45:29):
the Oddity several years ago.

Speaker 3 (02:45:31):
Oh my god. Yeah, yeah, I've been like waiting to
hear from them for ages, be like, hey, guys, what's
what's up.

Speaker 2 (02:45:41):
Well, it's an it's it's not just an indie project though,
it is, like it started off as a mother for
fan project, so like a lot of people just kind
of volunteering their time towards this project, and it's going
to be you know, probably not like a retail thing.
But dude, can I maybe we'll show you the trailer

(02:46:02):
a little later because it's yeah, it's it's pretty sick.

Speaker 3 (02:46:06):
Anyways.

Speaker 6 (02:46:07):
You know, there's adventure, and there's a couple.

Speaker 2 (02:46:09):
Of that's another one, Yes, that's that's that's the one
that I think has probably a much better chance of
actually coming to Fruition, And I'm really looking forward to Adventure.
But but Oddity is is this Yeah, it's it's a
it's a different kind of beast. It's not really I
can't call it an indie because it's like, uh, instead

(02:46:31):
of a shoe string budget it's like a no budget, right,
but it's a labor of love.

Speaker 3 (02:46:36):
Yeah. Anyways, anyways, Yeah, it's coming to PC. Honest, it
kind of does zero meets Indy shoe string Indye, that's
the whole category. It's more like a shoe shoe lace

(02:46:56):
whole Indy because there's nothing there the ring, just the Yeah,
it's just the islet all right.

Speaker 5 (02:47:05):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (02:47:05):
Next game is from developer and publisher Mouton.

Speaker 7 (02:47:10):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (02:47:11):
It is a new adventure game called Sofia in Exchangeful Lies.
In this game, you are a psychiatrist named Philip who
will interact with a girl named Sophia with five separate
personalities through the use of surveillance cameras, and her personality
kind of just changes on a dime. So it's kind

(02:47:33):
of a mystery game. You kind of have to figure
things out. Let's take a look at this game because
I thought it was very interesting. Uh primis and play
style and all that.

Speaker 2 (02:47:42):
Ah right, hmm, So it's about a guy who's interesting
with a with a gal who's like just changes a lot.

Speaker 3 (02:47:55):
Yeah, she's she's got whoa this is INDI But that's interesting.
Kind of reminds me of some PS two looks many personalities.
You're in a psychiatric ward, so you think they have

(02:48:22):
the ability to fix up those digs a little bit
for as much tech as they've shoved into that dungeon room.
Some nice lighting, lamp asked questions, testimony. It does feel

(02:48:44):
like a PS it's not.

Speaker 6 (02:48:47):
It's almost like looks like it like the same way
in the PlayStation and PlayStation those painterly scenes pixels, but
it doesn't look white PlayStation.

Speaker 3 (02:49:00):
I want to go all the way to PS three.

Speaker 2 (02:49:03):
You think, yeah, I guess I can kind of shading. Yeah,
it looks like it's got that intentionally almost like plasticy shading.

Speaker 3 (02:49:12):
You know, I'm actually waiting for this. Yes, so this
one is This one has an exact release date, which
is refreshing because all the other ones like, oh, we
don't know when this is coming out. This is coming
out on the third of July on PC vs theme
And I'll actually be playing this one because I love

(02:49:33):
weird games from the Japan land. I like RPGs, but
I also like these weird kind of games with different
kind of mechanics, darker games. But yes, this is again
Sophia and Exchange Full Lies and next that we've got
our last game. Take it away, mister Derrett.

Speaker 2 (02:49:51):
All right, let's take it away. A brand new two
point five D pixel well pixel art stealth game by
game Flow called Bandit Night has been announced and it's
where you sneak, pickpuck, and swipe treasures from the greedy
and corrupt.

Speaker 3 (02:50:10):
Uh and uh it's coming out Toper.

Speaker 7 (02:50:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (02:50:15):
Uh, let's check out the trailer because that system. Yeah,
I don't know how stealth it is. That's not a gameplay.
I'm like, this doesn't look that stealthy. He just walks
up and just picks stuff. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:50:37):
I don't see a whole lot of stealth here.

Speaker 6 (02:50:38):
But I mean maybe this is more like flash mob
looting than you know, what is it meddle gear solid.

Speaker 2 (02:50:49):
Super flesh boat, flesh mob what was it called super
flesh mob looting?

Speaker 3 (02:50:54):
The RPG Chased.

Speaker 6 (02:50:55):
By in Another World just that on it And it's
a good eat title for Piece of Guy.

Speaker 2 (02:51:02):
It reminds me of like Turnip Boy commits tax evasion,
something like that Turnip Boy robs a bank.

Speaker 3 (02:51:09):
I like, I like how two point five D is
becoming more accessible.

Speaker 2 (02:51:14):
Yeah, well that looks fun. I like the kind of
care free vibe that it has going on there.

Speaker 3 (02:51:21):
Yeah, now, oh man, two point five, that's not a
turn based RBG imagine that.

Speaker 2 (02:51:31):
Hmm all right, let me check something, okay, Okay, So yeah,
I was pulling up another.

Speaker 6 (02:51:37):
Like reminded me of like what does it you know,
those muthiest style dungeons or like the what is it
as your dreams? Where you move and then things move
around you depending on like are you you navigate the
gridge system. I really enjoy those kind of games because.

Speaker 3 (02:51:51):
It usually relax. I think it's called, yeah, like years
of things.

Speaker 6 (02:52:01):
And yeah, the parallaxing whatever they.

Speaker 3 (02:52:03):
Yeah, I love that. I love that so much.

Speaker 5 (02:52:07):
Man.

Speaker 2 (02:52:07):
Okay, So, since I brought up Oddity and since you've
never heard of it, I'll go ahead and show you
the trailer for it. Now, bear in mind again, it's
probably never coming out because it's been five years since
they did the trailer for it that I'm about to show,
and it's probably never going anywhere, but let's take a
look at it anyway, just because it's been a second

(02:52:29):
and I feel like watching it again now that it's
on my mind.

Speaker 3 (02:52:39):
Ooh already.

Speaker 4 (02:52:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:52:44):
This started off allegedly as a mother for fan project.
Actually that was the original name, was mother for fan Project. Yeah,

(02:53:04):
you should totally email them and be like, hey, guys,
I don't know if there's anybody to email though. That's
the thing, Like, it's if it's a bunch of people
like kind of loosely working together towards making this.

Speaker 3 (02:53:21):
I only only only makes it better to.

Speaker 6 (02:53:25):
We'll have I wonder how you would monetize something that's
been worked on by a collective.

Speaker 3 (02:53:30):
And see, that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (02:53:31):
I don't think that. I don't think that they were
planning to.

Speaker 3 (02:53:37):
And yeah, it's just that might be the problem exactly,
like if you can't page in mine and want to
monetize it.

Speaker 6 (02:53:48):
It's hard to imagine a game like this getting enough
polish for an end result without the idea of someone
getting compensated for the art like this, because this seems
like a lot of intricate work and a lot of blood,
sweat and tears to go in this thing. I would
imagine someone wants to be compensated other time working on
a game to this degree.

Speaker 3 (02:54:06):
If I mean nothing else, The conversation would be to
actually see it come through fruition, which begs the question again,
where are we with this game, I know, I gotta know,
I gotta find out, like at the very least, if
you're gonna do this for free, Like I want this
to be out there so people gonna enjoy it and
not just me doing a thing and let's wet and

(02:54:28):
tear and no one gets to see the end result, right, yeah,
one or the other, you know. See, this is the
one that like, I just.

Speaker 2 (02:54:38):
I mean, it'll say it'll be out when it's ready.

Speaker 3 (02:54:43):
You finally find a guide, you email them, so when's
it coming out? And then the response is when it's
ready exactly. So it looks till then this say isn't true.
I don't so don't do not email this?

Speaker 2 (02:55:01):
Yeah exactly. That is That is one hundred percent what
that that is if you were between the lines.

Speaker 3 (02:55:06):
So it's like, oh what what what what do you think?
Preston's what's your tick on that one?

Speaker 6 (02:55:12):
I like it. There's a there's a lot of those
kind of mother inspired projects that I've seen that had
that same kind of story going to Like they started
working out as a fan project and then it became
its own thing, so they had illegally like renamed its
own thing and giving its own kind of like Identity.
I like it. I think it looks amazing. I think, uh,
like the whole month, Like I said, getting the monetization.

(02:55:34):
I can't imagine someone putting that much time into a
game and not having a chance if you release it
is like like a benevolent gift everyone. That'd be pretty
pretty incredible, I think. But yeah, I have a lot
of work for benevolency, you know, or something.

Speaker 2 (02:55:50):
I mean, I'll tell you I like to be charitable,
but man, yeah, so I'll tell you, like when I
just do a search for like Audity RPG, like it's
a bunch of videos from people saying the game never
came out, it's never existed. Well it's been four years,
whereas the game, you know, and it's just like yeah, okay, sure.

Speaker 3 (02:56:10):
Well okay, so back to what we said. Look, if
if this game is truly not going to be modeled,
especially if it's not going to be monetized, and it's
truly just based on someone's like free time and just
feel like doing a thing, expect this thing to come
out in like ten years, you know, or never or never. Yeah,
And that's the thing.

Speaker 2 (02:56:31):
But why put out a trailer if you're not trying
to make hype.

Speaker 6 (02:56:34):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (02:56:34):
I don't know, but anyways, wanted to build something. Yeah,
that's true, incredible.

Speaker 6 (02:56:41):
I wonder how many of these are like like the
end result of whenever earth Bound sixty four got canceled,
you know, like because there's like the Umber Love and
earth Bound and I wanted I too kind of had that,
like I never got into like the Mother, you know,
the same scene as like the RPG Maker and Mother
indie type groups. They're super passionate. But I've always had

(02:57:04):
like a lot of respect for people who can kind
of keep those games alive and relevant and make out
and then the build off of something that someone has
kind of left off to the side and kind of
shelved for a while. I remember when Earthbound sixty four
was announced and it got canceled. I was pretty devastated
at that time, Like I was like looking forwards, like see,
they're bringing RPGs to the sixty four. This is going

(02:57:25):
to be awesome, you know. And then that one, just
like when they said now we're just not doing it.
I get that longing feeling. You can almost feel it
in those game trailers, like it's like that longing I
wanted to be able to play another Earthbound game, but
I can't because you know, whether there's not a translation
or the project that I was looking for to got canceled.
Like I think those groups seem like they're doing that

(02:57:48):
for the sheer art, like you know, those people who
used to live in groups and make an art as
a collective and just kind of like the experience itself
is the end result, where then as opposed to like
worried about like what comes at the end of the
d the tunnel. It's like the people that are kind
of riffing off each other and creating something that the
what what could have been? Kind of idea? I think
that's that's probably really that's a really intriguing, you know,

(02:58:11):
space to be in because you know what, it's hard
to imagine putting that much energy into something and just
knowing it it's just pro vibes and for fun, Like
I have a lot of respect for that.

Speaker 2 (02:58:22):
This this okay, So so this discussion has actually start
since you reminded me of Odd Venture. I'm like, what
is going on with Adventure?

Speaker 3 (02:58:30):
Did you know?

Speaker 2 (02:58:32):
Did you already know what they're doing right now? I
think we missed this Baku. I think we missed something
because because there's something from early March that I think
slipped past us. Okay, I'm gonna put on one more
trailer before we move on to industry news.

Speaker 3 (02:58:49):
Okay, all right, don't we can talk about Man, this
is odd venture.

Speaker 2 (02:58:58):
And apparently it has just come out into early access
in the beginning of March, and oh it says it's
said beginning of March is what the trailer says, so
maybe they pushed it back a little bit.

Speaker 3 (02:59:14):
Look at a steam. That's why the release date for
this is April third. Like we didn't miss it though, Yeah,
there's a lot. Let me let me tell you guys.

Speaker 2 (02:59:28):
Oh maybe I'm reading it wrong because it's like a
British for some reason.

Speaker 3 (02:59:32):
Oh no, because the trailer started playing on my sorry
the trailers on my uh my my browser. I was like, whoa,
why did he get so super loud?

Speaker 2 (02:59:43):
Okay, So yeah, okay, I missed. So the trailer title
says that it begins three four and that's I was like,
oh yeah, people from March fourth, But it's because it's
the British, Like yeah, I got it all right, wow,
So yeah, that's that's now an early bonus. Yeah, bonus

(03:00:05):
bone for the reminder that that exists. It slipped the
mind and it slipped past us.

Speaker 6 (03:00:10):
Man, So you know there's another one too. I think Glitched.
I saw that one a lot in like indie Twitter
and on indie Instagram back in the day, the same
kind of thing. I think they had like a card
based system though, but it had the same It looked
like an earth Bound style, you know, kind of like
the horror based almost like a derivative of a Mother

(03:00:32):
type game. Looked really cool.

Speaker 2 (03:00:33):
We'll have to look into that one. I I can't
find it when I do a search here, but maybe
next time I'll keep an eye out.

Speaker 3 (03:00:42):
I gotta tell you, guys, for every indie game, unless
we have like a somewhat if a working relationship already,
like you know with President or with like you know, Tyler,
over a quartet where we're like we're actively communicating sometimes
like it's every miss them. Yeah, for every one of
these indie games we talk about, there are ten that

(03:01:04):
we didn't get to talk about easily. Easily. There's so many,
it's it's so hard to catch them all. So, uh,
if you guys do find some interesting indies that we miss,
feel free to throw them in the commons. Sometimes it's like, hey,
did you guys hear about X y Z game? And
sometimes I'll tell you it's because it is the editorial decision.

(03:01:26):
We're like, yeah, no, we didn't feel like that really
vibe with like our audience, so we skipped it. Other
times like this one. Had I known about it, we
would have definitely talked about it, so it could kind
of go eight away. So but you know, just to
be safe, just throw them into comments if not for engagement.
By the way, all right, so here's a section change

(03:01:50):
to to do industry news because we only got one piece. Yeah, yeah,
we've only got one piece of industry news. That is
from Feudu, the folks who has the team Noir, and
they are the team who worked on the game Monarch.
Do you remember Monarch, mister, It sounds familiar. Yeah, yeah,

(03:02:15):
So Monarch is the turn base is a turn Base.
There's a JRPG that was made by some of the
members who had made person from Persona. Right, yeah, but
not three, one and two, and in the style is
you know, the storytelling is definitely more in line with
like Persona one and two, kind of style. So, and

(03:02:38):
that game was called Monarch. Now they are going to
announce a new School Life RPG on April twenty third
at eight am Pacific time, ten am Eastern. So what
what's that like? In three days? About three days they're
going to announce that, And there is a teaser website
that's available, so if you look for that, you maybe

(03:03:01):
we'll find it. But otherwise we're gonna wait until this
coming Sunday, whatever information day end up releasing, we'll talk
about it in the next hit point.

Speaker 2 (03:03:12):
Yeah, all right, awesome, well cool, cool, cool? All right,
So I think though that oh no, I was gonna
say that about does it for our show. But we
did actually get a super chat, another super chat from
Still Alive, So let's switch here and respond to that

(03:03:33):
super chat here real quick. So we already answered the
one about the question about the characters finding Hamburgers in
the trash cans, but they did also ask this question
is actually just for us too, but maybe you can
answer too. Have you heard that Elder Scrolls Oblivion remaster
has been pretty much confirmed? Kind of excited about that? Yes, yes,

(03:03:55):
I have absolutely been keeping my eyes on that. All
the screenshots that have been come out about this game. Dude,
I'm pretty stoked, and part of me, part of me
really wants to go play like Oblivion right now, partly
wants to go play Morowin right now.

Speaker 6 (03:04:14):
Yesterday again, I was like, man, in a while, it's
time to dust it off. And then I remember, like,
you know what, you should still have a sprint button.
You know. It's like you play games backwards, you forget
like all those slice of life things, the fact that
you're literally just like at the mercy of like walking
so slow, I don't know, just to get to the

(03:04:37):
next town.

Speaker 2 (03:04:38):
Well, the trick is to get yourself in the boots
of blending speed, cast immunity to status effects for like
a half a second, Like you create a super powerful
one for like a half a second, you cast it,
put on the boots of blending speed. The spellways off,
but you can still see, and you just somehere around
the countryside at like ultra speed.

Speaker 3 (03:04:57):
It's ridiculous.

Speaker 6 (03:05:01):
I just feeling like I have to like jump every
step of the way to level up my jumping, Like
oh gosh, like you know what, how much of this
was like more fun in theory. And then like back
in the day. I remember before the game came out,
like I had all these things like skill charts and
who what character I'm gonna roll in mid max And
then now going back, it's like just jump jump jump, jump, jump,

(03:05:24):
like level up. After fifteen minutes of that, you like,
you'll you'll, I'll go hop on something else.

Speaker 2 (03:05:30):
Oh well, at least in oblivion, you could, uh, you
could increase the rate at which you increase your athletics
ability from jumping by jumping up a hill and tapping
it repeatedly as you like on an incline. Say you
like land immediately as soon as you jump, and you
can just like jump up the thing and just like
and that's like, that's like fifteen jumps.

Speaker 3 (03:05:52):
It's like.

Speaker 2 (03:05:54):
It's not a it's not a glitch. It's just an
exploitation of because you didn't complete the whole jump because
you just you know, jumped, but you were on a
forward momentum. It's it's uh, it's a it's a quick
way to level up your athletics, it was, you know,
And then you're able to jump over houses and it's
like ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (03:06:13):
I love it.

Speaker 6 (03:06:14):
And then you get Skyrim where you're like just on
a horse just going horizontal vertically up a mountain. Just what,
it doesn't matter, just walk up the mountain on de yep,
Tod Todd.

Speaker 2 (03:06:26):
Todd did say that you could climb that mountain well,
especially your horse. All right, Well, guys.

Speaker 6 (03:06:34):
Got to ask if it was going to be fun
to climb that mountain or not?

Speaker 2 (03:06:40):
Well they yeah, they they didn't ask that part. Guys,
it has been a pleasure to stream for you all today.
If you enjoyed today's episode, well please give it a
like and hit the subscribe button or something. And if
you liked, uh, if you liked Preston here and you
know you did, go subscribe. I go wishless my familiar

(03:07:02):
over there on Steam. And if you're enjoying the podcasting
platform on some other platform like I don't know not Instagram,
that's not a thing, Spotify or Audible, leave us a
thumbs up in a review or something.

Speaker 3 (03:07:18):
It's very helpful.

Speaker 2 (03:07:19):
Helps us spread the news of awesome developers like Preston.

Speaker 3 (03:07:23):
Do it for Preston guys, familiar.

Speaker 6 (03:07:27):
For the tylers okay, yes, press all.

Speaker 2 (03:07:29):
The tylers, yes, so yeah, go go give it some
love and we appreciate you, guys. So much, and I
appreciate you, Preston for sticking with us the entire time.
You're an absolute trooper because we've been on this call
for gosh three and a half hours now.

Speaker 6 (03:07:46):
I mean it's been great though, fun talking about things
you enjoy, you know, talking about your passion.

Speaker 3 (03:07:51):
We do have a quick message from James over a
printed the games say, hey, all, my keyboard broke today,
so I'm typing with on screen nightmare here, so take
five minutes to type out that my familiar is beyond
gorgeous and exciting and gen Z is a real one.
The there you go. I think that's some James.

Speaker 6 (03:08:10):
Hey, I appreciate it man. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (03:08:15):
All right, guys, well, thank you so much, and we'll
see you guys all in a week. All right, have
a great night, everybody.

Speaker 6 (03:08:23):
Good night, Thanks you guys.

Speaker 1 (03:09:04):
St

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