Sinners: An In-Depth Discussion

In this powerful episode, the Hot Topix Podcast Team and guests take a deep dive into Sinners, the latest cinematic triumph from director Ryan Coogler, starring longtime collaborator Michael B. Jordan. The discussion breaks down the film’s bold narrative, its exploration of morality, redemption, and the burden of past choices. From the intense performances to the haunting cinematography and Coogler’s signature emotional layering, nothing is off-limits.

Join us as we explore how Sinners challenges viewers to confront uncomfortable truths and what this film says about the state of modern storytelling. Whether you’ve seen it or not, this conversation will have you thinking twice about the line between sin and salvation.

*** Spoiler Alert: We’re going all in. If you haven’t watched Sinners yet, pause now and come back after your screening.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
You're listening to the Hot Topics podcast Cycle forty one
Lovely Lady Lamb Chop and Fabulousonius. Let's get into it.
Good day everyone, Good morning, good afternoon, good evening to
all our listeners out there.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
This is been a while. I heard you say that.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Cycle forty eighty one here with my two co hosts,
the Lovely Lady Lamb Chop.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
Am I supposed to say hi? Now, I'm sorry hello, and.

Speaker 1 (00:34):
We had the Fabulous Blonious.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
I love everybody.

Speaker 2 (00:39):
She looks so cute today. I love Polka Dots.

Speaker 4 (00:41):
Oh you do?

Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yeah, I'm a Poka Dot fan.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Yeah, you do look really nice today.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
She always looks cute.

Speaker 3 (00:46):
Don't talk to me, you don't talk.

Speaker 1 (00:48):
To me, Poka Dots.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
Give me my boobs?

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Yeah? Yeah? Wow? Are you so special?

Speaker 5 (00:57):
Hey?

Speaker 2 (00:57):
Look, so we all saw the movie Sinners. Finally I
got it.

Speaker 3 (01:02):
When when did you see it?

Speaker 2 (01:05):
Let's let's take a week before a couple of weeks.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Okay, finally, so Sinners and we're going to go a
little plot recapsules for those out there. Now, let me
give you a warning if you have not seen the movie.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
This is spoiler.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Some sports.

Speaker 2 (01:21):
It might be time for you to yes, clock out?

Speaker 1 (01:24):
So all right, So apparently it's a film that confronts morality, judgment,
redemption in the great area in between. That's the academic
part of it. So it was a really good movie.
Did you like it?

Speaker 3 (01:36):
I liked it, but I feel like I kind of
feel like some things, like it.

Speaker 2 (01:41):
Was too hyped.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
Oh okay, all the hype that again more.

Speaker 6 (01:44):
Than yeah, I'm with you, because I left out thinking
I'm not sure how I feel.

Speaker 3 (01:50):
You yeah, the same way, the same way because he
hyped it like so like.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Oh, so me, I thought it was really good one
because not just because of what I saw was the
fact that it's a it's a horror movie that did
very well, and that's.

Speaker 6 (02:04):
It's a black horror movie that did well. You have
to you have to put that qualification that.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Ever happens, right, you know that since the great epic
film Blackula.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
Thought he was going for what was the one with
Peel with who get Out?

Speaker 5 (02:22):
Was that it?

Speaker 7 (02:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (02:23):
Yeah, I thought that's what he was gonna say. Blacular.

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Would you consider that one a horror?

Speaker 5 (02:27):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Absolutely?

Speaker 1 (02:29):
Okay? Get Out? Okay?

Speaker 2 (02:31):
That was that wasn't horror enough for you?

Speaker 6 (02:34):
It was just yeah, So did you con said if
it's gory's got that that what makes it horror.

Speaker 1 (02:40):
I think that was more like a drama.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Yeah, it was a scary drama, that's what it was.

Speaker 3 (02:45):
It was just called it was just like mind swisting.

Speaker 8 (02:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:48):
Yeah, yeah, even science fiction.

Speaker 6 (02:50):
Yeah, kind of okay, like a psychologic yeah, kind of
like horror.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (02:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
I didn't expect them to say blacular though, And you
guys see likely it's a classic.

Speaker 3 (03:01):
Probably something stupid.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
I mean, but back then it was everything. Back then,
it was everything.

Speaker 3 (03:09):
Yeah, because I seen movies he claims to be. Yeah,
and then I'm like, like, I also sleep.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
I'm like, that's because you're a new jack and you're
used to these newer movies that have a lot of you.

Speaker 6 (03:19):
Know, special effects, and yeah, yeah one is this scary
parts black and white and everybody's just acting the full
I'm like, okay, so have you.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
Seen Psycho, the first one with Anthony Perkins.

Speaker 3 (03:37):
Well, I'm not I'm not trusting to show me anymore
movies from the past.

Speaker 8 (03:41):
You know.

Speaker 3 (03:42):
The one you showed me.

Speaker 6 (03:43):
Was the Exorcist Exercise, and it was just like, I'm
not even scared of this.

Speaker 2 (03:48):
This movie scared.

Speaker 1 (03:50):
That you didn't. That's because you was tired. You didn't
really know it was boring. You didn't pay attention.

Speaker 2 (03:55):
It's so boring.

Speaker 6 (03:55):
And I think, like you said, I want to go
back then that was special effects for us, but for
you you've seen like tons of improvement away along the way.
But back then, there was another one you showed me
that was about a school teacher, the black school teacher man.

Speaker 1 (04:11):
That no black school teacher man.

Speaker 3 (04:14):
Yeah he was teaching. He was a black man teaching
white school.

Speaker 2 (04:17):
White.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
Yes, it's not horrible, but that was good.

Speaker 1 (04:23):
Yeah, And you was that You was crying at the end,
crying for what you was. You teared up for what
you mean, for what you was crying. I looked at you.

Speaker 2 (04:31):
You was.

Speaker 5 (04:38):
All right.

Speaker 1 (04:38):
So Sinners came out this year. Obviously still in.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
The movies, Yes, still in the movies.

Speaker 1 (04:45):
He directed by Ryan Cookler, and he has a nice
track record of putting out these good movies.

Speaker 8 (04:50):
Now.

Speaker 1 (04:50):
I haven't seen his first big one, Fruitvale talk about crying, Yeah,
I didn't see that much.

Speaker 6 (04:58):
Okay, let's let's say if you watch that, just be
prepared to be all the emotions.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Okay, just put it out there all the Emotions.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Well Sinners is a genre blending supernatural horror film set
in nineteen thirty to Clarksdale, Mississippi and probably nineteen eighty
two Clarksdale, Mississippi.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
That ain't right, I'm sorry, Mississippi.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
The story follows twin brothers, Elijah Smoke and Elias stack More,
portrayed both by Michael B. Jordan, which I thought was
great that he, you know, could play. They were former
soldiers and bootleggers who returned from Chicago to their hometown
to open a juke joint. And if anybody doesn't know

(05:43):
what the juke joint is, it's basically a nice nightclub
or whatever that's unlicensed ore unregulated, you know, and it.

Speaker 2 (05:50):
Usually plays the blues or some kind of southern.

Speaker 1 (05:54):
And they still have juke joint music.

Speaker 2 (05:56):
I wonder where the name came from. We have to
look that up. We have to look up.

Speaker 1 (06:01):
Look it up, look look it upper.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
Our social media, our media.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
Well, the adventure takes a dark turn when they encounter
a vampire clan led by Remick played by Jack O'Connell,
threatening their community and horror Southern gothic, and I just
messed up the whole thing forcing them to confront confront
both supernatural and societal evils. And that's the big thing
about the movie, right that the film intertwines elements of horror,

(06:28):
Southern Gothic, and historical drama, using vampirism as a metaphor
for racial exploitation and cultural appropriation during the Jim Crow era. Now,
I didn't pick that up, So that's good that they
mentioned that. I'm gonna talk about that.

Speaker 2 (06:42):
I kind of did, you know, we'll we'll talk about it.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
It delves into themes of power, legacy, and survival, highlighting
the resilience of black communities in the face of systemic oppression.
So today, yes, now the the tangible stuff is. It
received critical acclaim for innovative storytelling and cultural death, grossing
over three hundred and fifty million big worldwide and it's

(07:09):
still on strong.

Speaker 5 (07:12):
So.

Speaker 1 (07:13):
The soundtrack was produced by Ludwig Gorassing some I guess
in Norwegian and featuring artists like Brittany Howard and Buddy Guy.
They were lauded for its authentic representation of the Delta
blues music, which I do love blues.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
I love all types of blues, I.

Speaker 1 (07:31):
Do, and I'm more of a blues Lover when it's live. Okay, anyway,
let's get into to the discussion now. They said he's
he said he's not going to do a sequel. So
it was because it stands on its own, it pretty
much does.

Speaker 2 (07:48):
And what would he did?

Speaker 1 (07:48):
Well, I guess because there's some open ended things.

Speaker 6 (07:51):
It is some open ended things because the who was
that Stack, like, yes, back was the one that Stack
was vampire that turned into okay, so Stack and Rose
is that her name?

Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (08:05):
Okay, so they could know what was her name? Grace? No,
Grace was the Asian lady.

Speaker 1 (08:11):
I don't know, all right, Stack and the white girl.
That's that's culturally appropriate because it's easy. There is no
main character in the exceptable one white girl.

Speaker 6 (08:21):
Okay, So but they could their story. He did say
that he did, yeah, well what's she doing here? And
that that's part of that that thing that you were
saying you didn't didn't get the racial thing. That's that
was the whole part of it, because the black woman
was like, why she you know, what is she's trouble?

Speaker 2 (08:41):
The black woman told him.

Speaker 3 (08:42):
Man, it was her fault that will happened though, what
the whirl?

Speaker 1 (08:46):
The white girl Okay, So you and I talked about that, right,
and we're talking about the underlying themes, right, So that
was that underlying thing, all right? So what are the
central sins? It's called sinners? What are the central sins
that's depicted in the movie.

Speaker 6 (09:00):
I was just saying, like before you came in, I
was like, why isn't called centers? And I guess because
I'm going to hell because showing about the sins that
was happening, you know what I'm saying. But I guess
with the Blues was a sin back then, like you
weren't supposed to play the blues and illegal drinking.

Speaker 3 (09:16):
Drinking, so the preacher, yes, that's where he came from.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
It lined he lined it up.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
Okay, rubbing all on against each other, taking your money
and going out to you know, rub bodies and gotcha
listening to that devil music, which every every episode, I
mean every movie they seem to have devil music, going
from the old ones to the news.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
And let's see, so you have andication, fornication, adulterree.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yes, okay, definitely all right, So there was definitely adultery
in there, right. There was fornication that was drinking, not
just drinking, but over.

Speaker 6 (09:59):
That, okay, that's right, because you can, you know, drink
according to the bibble you can.

Speaker 1 (10:05):
And then there was uh so some of the sins
that we talked about. It was a fortification, adultree, adultrey,
over douges of alcohol or substance abuse.

Speaker 2 (10:19):
The double music, double music, uh, and.

Speaker 6 (10:22):
What do you call it when they were doing illegal
activities because bootlegen was illegal.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
So they also had the gambling, right, and they had
the lust. So what are you know, the seven deadly sins?

Speaker 3 (10:39):
Maybe all right, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (10:44):
I don't know all of them.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
So I think those were the you know, central sins
in the movie because they all tied together because joint.

Speaker 2 (10:55):
All of those conversion into one place.

Speaker 1 (10:58):
Now, you also had I don't know what's the sin
of Oh it was you said adultery. But when the
the vampires came, did you have like something like.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
Killing?

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yeah, wait, murder that part I don't say, uh, some
type of bias that's a technically a sin because they
didn't let the white folks in. That's one, right, okay,
And of course it was in Jim Crow Mississippi. That

(11:34):
was a central theme as well. So I don't know
if you would consider that that's one of the sins.
But that was that was central in that, you know, Now,
what did you think about the What did you think
about the the film?

Speaker 6 (11:52):
So, like, like I said, I walked out thinking, I'm
not sure if I like this or not. And I think,
like you said, they were just it was just overly hyped.
But I you know, aside from that. Aside from that,
Michael B. Jordan is one of my favorites and I've
been following him since his days are all my children.
So I thought he was really good distinguishing the two

(12:13):
brothers because they really did have different personality. Yeah, so
I thought he was really good in that sense. And
I also liked the what would you call her? I
don't want to say voodoo woman, but she was I'm
not sure the woman. Is that what you would call
because they weren't a louisiada, that's all. I wasn't sure
if that's what you call her. I know it's another term.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
I just don't know what it is because she's not
a Sharman, so I know it's another term. But I
liked her too, which is awesome.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Voodoo yeah, they yeah, they would healer, healer yeah, so
I liked her too, So all right, I'm a separated.
So we talked about the actual the content of the
movie versus the making of.

Speaker 2 (12:52):
Oh it was another part. I'm sorry.

Speaker 6 (12:54):
I did like the musical history, okay, how they showed
you all right, all of this music started in this place.

Speaker 2 (13:01):
So I did like that. Okay.

Speaker 1 (13:03):
So as far as the technical aspect of the movie.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
Were talking about the soundtrack, the color, yes, yes, the costumes,
you know, I thought that was very good. The acting
I thought was really good too. It was and there
was certain things in there that I picked up that
that was funny, like, so, what's the guy's.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
Name, the fat guy?

Speaker 2 (13:29):
Oh, what is his name in the movie? Corn Bread?

Speaker 1 (13:32):
Corn Bread corn Bread.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
Actual acting name.

Speaker 1 (13:37):
So when corn Bread goes out to you know, to
relieve himself, right, he starts hearing the stuff in the background,
and you can noticely noticeably, you can hear him peeing, right,
So every time the noise came out, he was like,
cut it off and then back to p I was like, okay,
that's that was pretty good. The sounds and stuff like that,
and I say, I do love the soundtrack.

Speaker 2 (14:00):
It definitely matched the movie perfectly. It really did.

Speaker 6 (14:04):
I'm not a fan of those movies that put in
modern day songs and it's it's yeah, and it's just like,
h my brain disconnects and I can't get it. So
it definitely matched the movie.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
Now, they did put in modern day song when they
were in the juke joint because they were showing you
how yeah, it transitions through and it brings it together.
So it had a little bit of that, right. I
thought that the funny part was about it when the
Chinese guy was out there doing his this little karate
things or whatever. But I thought that was pretty funny.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
Yeah, they did have a little bit of levity.

Speaker 6 (14:43):
You know, there were places that you and you also
explained to me because I thought, I was like, why
is this Asian family in this movie? But then you know,
we talked about it and you were saying that they
were ostracized too, and they could probably only set up
shop in the black neighborhoods, which had as created this
long history of them still being in mostly African American

(15:06):
African American neighborhoods.

Speaker 1 (15:07):
So you go to the African American neighborhoods and you'll
see the the hair that the.

Speaker 6 (15:15):
Liquor store, the Chinese food. Yeah, even sub shops, even
sub shops now, so yeah that I was just like.

Speaker 3 (15:24):
Ah, but what's the difference between a white person and
a Chinese person?

Speaker 5 (15:27):
Though?

Speaker 1 (15:28):
As far as what no Chinese, Well, when they when
you talk about color, let's kind of you're new to
this because you're not in this crazy world called the America. Right,
So there's black, which is African people of African descent,
and then there's white people from European descent. Then they
called them yellow, which wasn't really good, but the yellow

(15:49):
people were Asians. Yeah, so then even then that's doesn't match.
But they're total different cultures. Europeans when they came here
was about Europeans and not even all Europeans because because
the Italians.

Speaker 3 (16:03):
Uh was Wait, so you're saying even white people discriminate
against other weapons.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
The discriminant needed against other white people. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:13):
From the beginning when they left Europe, the English didn't
like the Irish to Irish like the English to Germans
like the French. So when it came here it was
the same thing until later on they found somebody else
they can shift that too, So yeah, it became white
people instead of the different you know, tribes of Europe.
So it was white people against the black people in

(16:35):
the in the Chinaman.

Speaker 3 (16:37):
So I say that because the movie there the black guys,
the brothers were friends. They allowed the Chinese people come in,
right or they said, white girl, white people know.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
So in the in the history of this country, all right,
So what happened even in the UK where they brought
in enslaved Africans right to build this country to this
to it's economic power that it is today. They did
the same thing with the Chinese. Put the Chinese in
to help build the railroads and stuff like that. And
then when it when it all came down to beinging

(17:11):
or benefiting from the rewards of your labor, they were,
they were not. That's the history of this country. So
it's it's the same thing with the African descendants, the Chinese.
Oh I'm gonna say Chinese, but the Asians, the Latinos, yeah,
you know, yeah, come in working the the the farming,
the agricultural business, right and then the first thing they

(17:33):
want to do now, especially today, boot them out right, right.
So that's that's been the theme of this country from
its beginning. So then you then you'll have those those
groups that actually come together because they have each other.
You know, they're not going to discriminate against each other.

Speaker 2 (17:49):
Because they got one time, right, That's all they had.

Speaker 1 (17:52):
And that was shown. You know, say about the movie.
So now is the film asking us to judge the
characters or ourselves?

Speaker 3 (18:04):
Hmmm, Well, I don't see any judging in the movie.
I can't really say.

Speaker 1 (18:09):
Well, all right, So basically, they give you a person,
they give you a personality. They have the the KKK guy, right,
that's the guy in the beginning, that could be that's
judgment you're judging racism or racists from the movie. You're
you have the the juke joint patrons, the the you're
judging them as the non church or people. You have

(18:33):
the brothers in their relationship with their fathers. They told
a story about that. You have the guy that you're judging,
the funny guy Delroy, where his character when he all
he can't was getting money his drink.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
And you had the brothers themselves, who you know, were
in the mob connections from Chicago and shot a guy
in the ass.

Speaker 6 (18:57):
Right.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
So it's a lot of things like that. Even something
as small as you know, when they were in the
cotton fields and that the person was asking him what
you got planned for the day that they was asking
them questions, it was like, you know, basically, maya business.

Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, I'm just getting my quota and I'm out of
here right.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
So and that was because he didn't want well, there's
a tendency for people to tell your business and then
talk about you. So it was a lot of that.
He brought up basically all the real societal ills.

Speaker 6 (19:26):
And that's the thing, like, I feel like we can
judge society based on this film, But I guess if
you're judging society, then you're judging people and you're judging yourself.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Because you're going to identify you.

Speaker 2 (19:38):
With somebody in that movie you can't.

Speaker 1 (19:39):
Identify, you know, or even that it was the woman
that was that was always in the mirror, the mirror, Like, wait.

Speaker 2 (19:52):
A minute, did I miss that part? I didn't can
go to the bathroom? I missed that part? What is
bro with you? Why are you so special?

Speaker 5 (20:03):
All right?

Speaker 1 (20:03):
So, all right, remember all the characters since we're talking
about the sins and the different things and judging, So did.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Each character represent a sin? Yes, okay, look at you.
So which character represented pride? Stack? Stack?

Speaker 6 (20:23):
You know, because he was always dressed in the nones.
And that's a prideful thing to me.

Speaker 5 (20:29):
Not.

Speaker 2 (20:29):
I mean, we all want to look good, well most
of us.

Speaker 6 (20:37):
Some prefer the homeless route, you know, but but I
can see some people saying that that's prideful.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
Especially white people felt like that was.

Speaker 6 (20:46):
Prideful for African Americans to think that they could look
like them, like them, and you know, dressed like them,
and that they felt like that was a level of
you being an up at the negro when you dressed appropriately. Okay,
well appropriately for them, I guess. Yeah, Okay, so I
would say he was proudful.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
How about what is the easy one? How about lust Stack?

Speaker 1 (21:13):
Well, he just like sta Stack, but he just like
the white girl.

Speaker 2 (21:20):
Oh no, I think he was laying it down all
over time.

Speaker 1 (21:22):
Remember, because he actually cut her loose. He was telling
her but yes, all right, so we got and he's
telling the what's the guys the mean character? Yeah, so
telling him you know, how to give oil? Yes, So
that was the last part, and you know he tried

(21:44):
it out and you know it worked for him. And
then also Stack was the one because he was lest
full goes into the back and you know, yeah, so yeah,
that's less. Also, you can talk about the the woman
that sings.

Speaker 2 (22:01):
Singing lust or hers could be adults. She was married,
so kind of both. Yeah. Yeah, talking about the.

Speaker 1 (22:10):
One that he met at the train station that he
invited to the to the Duke joint.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Yeah, she's like she started singing.

Speaker 1 (22:19):
And then let's see greed.

Speaker 6 (22:22):
Stack and and the other the other guy, the other
guy that was drinking.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Well also smoke because remember he didn't want to. He
didn't want to, Yeah, he didn't want to take the
Witten Nicholas. He was like, we gotta make this money.
Also greed was the girl, the white girl. I'm sorry
I don't know her name, but because she was she

(22:53):
went out there to pick the people up, the vampires
because they showed her some she wanted to bring right,
so that changed everything, like oh money and I guess
she was looking out for them. But still that's still greed.
Do you also have the the Asian folks with the
store was like, oh you got the money we got

(23:14):
you know, you could say that's greed or commerce.

Speaker 3 (23:17):
We can say everything is greed. Great greed because everybody's
trying to.

Speaker 1 (23:20):
To make a dollar. Yeah, so I guess greed would
be when you have the over indulgence for you doing
things that is not good, to chase the money. So
that so that would be both.

Speaker 2 (23:32):
They were chasing them.

Speaker 6 (23:33):
The Asian couple was chasing the money too, because they
were just like, we'll paint your sign, you know, she
did the whole haggling thing with him about painting a sign.
And they had a store for the white people across
the street from the store for the black people. So
they were absolutely chasing that dollar. Yeah, I think that
was a good sense though. That's probably the only way
they didn't get that store burned down, you know.

Speaker 2 (23:54):
And then let's see we got pride less greed envy
o the NB.

Speaker 3 (24:01):
In there, the one the preacher song was envious of
the two brothers though.

Speaker 2 (24:09):
Well actually he was. He was, so you think he
was just admir okay, yeah, but.

Speaker 1 (24:16):
Some of the envy would be with you, said Mary Mary,
Mary was that's jealous jealousy whatever. She definitely had some jealousy,
but it wasn't the the piano player a little envious
of Stack and Smoke. No, not of the preacher's kid
a little bit when yes, when he played they got

(24:38):
past that, so they resolved it.

Speaker 8 (24:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (24:42):
I think that's the only thing about the NB thing
that I could think of. Hm hm uh hmhmm. Okay.
The what was what was smokes woman's name? Pearl?

Speaker 1 (25:02):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (25:04):
Annie? She was Annie?

Speaker 1 (25:07):
And are you okay?

Speaker 2 (25:09):
Annie was not? Okay?

Speaker 1 (25:13):
What's some other the sins? Uh sloth?

Speaker 2 (25:21):
That's laziness, right, yeah, none of them people lazy. You
do that every day. That's retirement that every day. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
I don't feel like anybody was lazy.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
So they was out there picking cotton. Even corn Bread
was picking cotton, you know, he was working. And look,
even his wife was just like, go back to money.

Speaker 5 (25:44):
You know.

Speaker 6 (25:45):
She was like going going out of here. She didn't
want any parts. But then when he started talking money,
she was like how.

Speaker 2 (25:50):
Much money she paid? You know.

Speaker 6 (25:52):
So but then you have to think of their social
economic life.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Was just trying to survive.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Barely anything at the time, Yeah, which is kind of
still shown today. So we should have just picked up
the character and say, well, what did they represent?

Speaker 2 (26:17):
We did it back?

Speaker 1 (26:18):
Okay. Now in the overall movie, was there a theme
of justice being served? Or vengeance?

Speaker 2 (26:31):
Mm hmmm.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
So before before that, I'm trying to understand how to
survive which two? The two and the girl?

Speaker 1 (26:43):
You missed it?

Speaker 3 (26:45):
I know, I know, I know they didn't burn them
down and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (26:48):
But so Mary Rain at the end, Yeah, and then
Stack spared.

Speaker 6 (26:56):
Yeah, Smoke didn't kill Stag because he's said he would
spare the boy. He wouldn't mess with Sammy. That's his name, Samam.

Speaker 2 (27:04):
He wouldn't mess with the deal. Yeah, that was the deal.
So that's that's how they got away, all right.

Speaker 6 (27:09):
So now now were you saying vengeance or revenge?

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Justice?

Speaker 8 (27:14):
Yes?

Speaker 6 (27:15):
Okay, this is like probably unpopular, but I felt like
he got justice with killing the klansmen. You know, I
don't I don't preach killing anybody, right, but them m
efforts probably had killed the whole like like he said,
that was a slaughter house, so they had probably killed
a whole bunch of people before they got to them.
So I feel like they got their justice.

Speaker 1 (27:36):
So from the beginning, so what was that?

Speaker 3 (27:38):
What was the plug? Like they were going to come
back to kill everybody.

Speaker 2 (27:42):
And that's what I thought.

Speaker 6 (27:43):
They were going to kill everybody, But you said they
were only gonna kill stack and smoke.

Speaker 1 (27:47):
Well, they were going to come back and kill whoever
was still so they can so they can, so they
can re so they can re sell the place, right,
And that's what has been happened. That's but when he
was in the floor, they asked him, they said, well, hey,
did y'all clean the floors or what's this on the floor?

Speaker 7 (28:07):
Right?

Speaker 8 (28:07):
Right?

Speaker 1 (28:08):
So they would take the money and then you know,
over again. So overall there was revenge from from the
beginning to the end. But also that could be just
to serve too, That's what I said. I felt like
that was just the serves. I felt like they got
what they should have gotten because they have done that
probably years and years and years and years and killed

(28:29):
numerous people that way and took all their money.

Speaker 3 (28:32):
So I'm the story about the explain the story about
the voodoo lady and meaning they had a child, yes, yes.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
And and and and that's a little, you know, uh
little subplot also because you gotta figure the what was
it the whole dynamics between a relationship breaking down because
of loss.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
And lots of a child.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
There's you know, emotional content in there as well.

Speaker 2 (28:59):
But it's clear that they lost.

Speaker 3 (29:01):
Yeah, but at first I didn't I didn't understand what
the loss was about at the beginning. Yes, I knew
they lost somebody, but I couldn't tell if she was
their father, it was the boy's father, or I just
knew there was somebody.

Speaker 6 (29:15):
Yeah, okay, well they lost the father too, but I'm
not sure that would qualify as loss.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
Who lost the father? The twins?

Speaker 2 (29:22):
The twins killed their father, right, Yeah, And now.

Speaker 1 (29:26):
You know, that's one thing. I think it's a little
bit clear unclear because one of them lied. So he
lied about the guitar, and he said he got knocked
unconscious in the other the other right, brother, So I
don't know if that's actually what happened. I think it's
a little bit ambiguity in that. So I don't know,
what do you think?

Speaker 2 (29:45):
Yeah, I think they can't pick all the plots.

Speaker 6 (29:48):
You know, I think they wanted to give some back
history of how how they operate as a team, because
they were a team right from the beginning, from the beginning,
so I think that they wanted to give that how
they operated as a team.

Speaker 2 (30:00):
And then you know, you.

Speaker 6 (30:01):
Were talking about how when you would explain how America
has worked. But at some point English people didn't want
the Italian people coming, they didn't want Jewish people coming,
so they were ostracides too. But like you said, at
some point they figured it all out, saying, hey, if
we stick together against these people over here, then we'll

(30:22):
be better.

Speaker 2 (30:23):
So so.

Speaker 1 (30:26):
Justice I think yeah, I think definitely justice was served.
And there was some plots of a vengeance.

Speaker 2 (30:32):
Now then part so what do you mean the plots
of vengeance?

Speaker 1 (30:35):
What was a plot of vengeance was at the end
where he started sho.

Speaker 6 (30:39):
And that's why I felt like that was justice.

Speaker 2 (30:41):
Okay, two things could.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
Be, because they did they did survive all of that
at the end. So really, you know, he was getting
vengeance for for them trying to set them up right
and also.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
Remick the head vampire.

Speaker 1 (30:57):
He didn't did he serve justice? And what and what
said when he was he said he was going after
the old klansman. Oh said, we're going to go after
that clansman too and bring everybody into the happy family.

Speaker 6 (31:12):
But that was only if they came with him, only
if everybody at the juke joint came.

Speaker 1 (31:17):
I think they were going to do that anyway, but
they were just trying to get more people. Sammy.

Speaker 6 (31:23):
They were trying to get Sammy, okay, And that's what
I asked you. So let's talk about that. Why were
they after Sammy?

Speaker 8 (31:28):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (31:29):
So what was it about him?

Speaker 1 (31:30):
In the beginning? You remember that they was telling you
the stories about the Grios and all the different people
from the Native that they played music and it brought
together dimensions, brought together people from other dimensions. So he
wanted to bring you, saying me to bring in I

(31:52):
guess the spirits of his kindred spirits.

Speaker 6 (31:55):
So music, okay, okay, So and explain the date of
Americans because the guy was just like, ain't no Native
Americans been around here since blah blah blah.

Speaker 2 (32:07):
So I was just like, did.

Speaker 6 (32:09):
They see that man smoking when he knocked on the door,
like like it was born in right?

Speaker 2 (32:14):
Like didn't they see that part?

Speaker 3 (32:16):
And so you also felt like maybe he was enslaved
kind of okay.

Speaker 6 (32:20):
So so they felt like the Date of Americans had
done something.

Speaker 3 (32:23):
To yes exactly?

Speaker 2 (32:25):
And why did they say they had to get out
of they had to get.

Speaker 3 (32:27):
Gone because because it was almost time for it was
almost sunned out or sunset, yeah, for them to turn
for the guy to turn.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
Into Okay, okay, what is hey?

Speaker 1 (32:44):
So all right, we have went to we have three
guests that chimed in, and we're gonna you guys, you
can unmute yourself if there's no noise in the background,
and then we'll get into the question part. So we're
basically talking about the sinful part and then was it

(33:06):
justice or was it vengeance? When it comes to the movie,
what was those underlying themes? Was justice served or was
it just about vengeance? So that's what we're talking here.

Speaker 6 (33:19):
I think the underlying theme for me is that this
ship is still still going on happening like some of
this stuff with the racism and not the vampires, well
it depends on who you believe, but not the vampires,
but that underlying racism and separatism and all the isms

(33:39):
are still happening.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
Okay. So overall, you think justice was served in the movie,
you would say you, uh, felonious was just as served
in the movie.

Speaker 2 (33:51):
Yes, okay, okay, I think so too.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Does the film portray any institution as morally superior? It
must say institution, I mean church, the state, meaning the country,
the government, or family.

Speaker 5 (34:07):
Mmmm mmmm.

Speaker 1 (34:10):
You know I don't know, I'm gonna say. I'm gonna
say definitely the church, because basically everything was based off
of what the church deemed as moral. Okay, the singing
in the in the juke joint, the drinking, the smoking,
the adultery, right, Anthony, anything one chime in, oh me,

(34:34):
how you doing him?

Speaker 9 (34:37):
I would say the church. The church was like a
for my outlet. Okay, we gave us a sense of hope.
E though we go from Monday through Saturday, we go
through hell, but the church was our outlet.

Speaker 5 (34:49):
It was like the promised lane.

Speaker 6 (34:51):
Okay, well that's how some people felt like the juke
joint was their thing, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (34:57):
So okay, so you're.

Speaker 2 (34:59):
Asking which one?

Speaker 1 (35:01):
What did they they feel it was? In the film?
Did it seemed like the church or even the juke
joint was morally superior? When you talk about morals, I
think the church with the who sits morals?

Speaker 2 (35:16):
The churches who sets the morals?

Speaker 6 (35:18):
Right, So if you're talking about superiorder, you're right, it
would be the Church.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
Definitely couldn't been the state because that was what Jim
Crue error.

Speaker 1 (35:26):
Yeah, you know, yeah, and then obviously the role that
religion in the moral cold played a lot in this movie.
Matter of fact, from the beginning, because they said if
you and you keep, we said, we keep playing with
the devil.

Speaker 2 (35:46):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you keep one day.

Speaker 1 (35:49):
Invite them home? Yeah right, okay, and just so happens
he did. Now all rights as opposed to the day.
How do you think that manifest today, playing with the
devil and inviting them home? Same or or totally different, same, same, same,
okay in the words of what like say, I don't

(36:12):
think it could be mut well music today maybe, but.

Speaker 6 (36:16):
It is always somebody who is going to put sin
on music always. You know, we had a whole congressional
thing about metal music killing kids, you know, kids killing
themselves because they're listening to heavy metal, and the whole
thing with rap music. So it's always going to be
a certain segment of people putting sin on music, always,
forever and ever.

Speaker 1 (36:38):
So in today's society, could that be playing with the devil?
Meaning could that be substance abuse? Could be, and then
you're inviting that back into your home. Like even back then,
you had people, especially men, going out there drinking and
carrying on and then come back and beat the wife
and you know, things of that nature.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Or have a whole family across town.

Speaker 1 (36:58):
Yeah, my great Grandpather had that.

Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yeah, yeah, we got one.

Speaker 3 (37:02):
So ideally they say like drinking, going to bars always
has has absolutely.

Speaker 1 (37:10):
Absolutely well that part I disagree with what do any
every day? So I guess it's over indulgence. Okay, okay,
So all right, when we talked about the church in
in in symbolism, there's a lot of symbolism. There was

(37:30):
a lot of a lot of symbolism. And we'll get
to that last that I talked about, now, redemption.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
Mhmm.

Speaker 8 (37:39):
Right.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
Was there was there any possible redemption for anybody in there?
Or was it saying that regard everybody was damned?

Speaker 5 (37:49):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (37:49):
Say, redemption for brother for smoke?

Speaker 1 (37:59):
Smoke? He used to say he was redeemed.

Speaker 3 (38:01):
I guess because at the end of the day he
was reunited with his wife.

Speaker 1 (38:04):
And okay, okay, I can see that. But but he
killed people, did but he killed people for right, and
they was gonna kill him, so I guess, okay, I
can see that. Okay, So there was some redemption in there.
Who else? Who else gained redemption?

Speaker 2 (38:17):
The boy Sammy Sammy, that was only people. Laugh. I
want nobody else laught.

Speaker 6 (38:27):
I mean, that's not funny, but you know it was
only people laught seriously, you know, all.

Speaker 9 (38:34):
Right, So there was a lot of absolutely, but Sammy,
the redemption was I would say no, because the fact
that is, when he came into the church with the
piece of good thought left in his hand, and he
still made a decision to go back into the.

Speaker 1 (38:52):
World, right, so all of that would happen, all the
stuff that happened, and his and his father gave him
that that warning about bringing the double home, and he
returned to the church and he had that opportunity to
drop that guitar. So he didn't get redemption because he
went back to the same.

Speaker 6 (39:11):
I think that was the only move for him, the
only move. I felt like that he that's the only
car he could have played. He could not have stayed
in that town because they were going to keep coming
for him. Well then again though, because they made the
deal with Stack for them to not harm him. But
I felt like he had he had already outgrown that town,

(39:32):
He had already outgrown that church. The minute he started
playing that guitar that was his. He had to go
he had to go. But Smoke was just like, you
ain't never coming back here.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
He saw it. I think he saw it.

Speaker 6 (39:47):
You know, he's just like, you ain't doing this anymore.
You never coming back here. You need to do ABC
and D. So I think that was the only move
he had left.

Speaker 1 (39:56):
I see, I see your face, Anthony.

Speaker 5 (40:00):
I'm thinking, okay, you know.

Speaker 9 (40:02):
And after the first of the credits, yeah, and it
was cat Stack came back in and he said, you know,
we made a vow enough to touch you. But if
you know this, all three did not cast a reflection
in the mayor.

Speaker 2 (40:21):
I did not know. Oh okay, but when you got
me on that one, yeah, I did not notice time
well even Sammy.

Speaker 5 (40:27):
Sammy didn't cast a reflection either. You know.

Speaker 2 (40:30):
I sort of focused on it, but I missed that part. Yeah,
I did not.

Speaker 1 (40:34):
Now have to see it for the fourth time.

Speaker 9 (40:39):
Oh my, I enjoyed it to the utmost, but yeah.

Speaker 8 (40:44):
It four times.

Speaker 1 (40:46):
I saw it three.

Speaker 6 (40:48):
I'm just trying to pick out how how that happened
because he wasn't bitten.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yeah that's true, right, Okay, to the play the.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
Play the guitar the way that he did so, but
I didn't know there was an actual musician that Robert Johnson. Yes, yes,
that's exactly who it is that.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
Their modeling this after me. Then they was saying that,
I guess because he played so well and he had success,
that he actually sold himself to the devil.

Speaker 2 (41:21):
Okay, Okay, so that's the all right, So all right,
And I kept asking, like the whole time this thing
was going on, I kept asking myself parts of this
story true?

Speaker 6 (41:30):
Like I feel like parts of this story could have
possibly been true. And maybe it wasn't the vampires that
came for them. Maybe it was the Klansman or something else.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
So you know, the fires represented something as well. And
that's what I like his his movies, Ryan Coogler. It
it's so many things that you can miss, even when
when you talk about black panthers, you know little things
that you missed. So and I know every part of
that movie represented something.

Speaker 2 (42:01):
So I mean, maybe the vand parts of society coming
for them could be but all right, the wife, the
white society.

Speaker 1 (42:07):
Okay, so we're gonna get into the villain park because
this is this is gonna be the fun part. And
I would know herer your different opinions because I know
I'm gonna have a different opinion on this one.

Speaker 5 (42:19):
All right.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
Now, did religion serve as some sort of salvation or
control as displayed in the movie.

Speaker 6 (42:33):
Talk about a real life dilemma, talk about a current dilemma.
I guess it depends on who you are. I'll say
that I'm gonna take the Switzerland both, right.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
I'm gonna take this, take the Switzerland answer, because for
the father it was salvation. Before the son it was
it was control, right, it wasn't, okay?

Speaker 1 (42:54):
And what about the the the twins smoking.

Speaker 2 (42:59):
Stack, I'm not sure that they have religion.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
They totally you know, the family itself was you know, religious,
but they they left a long time ago, so I
guess they looked at it as control as well. Then
who was it salvation? That's really the only part of
you know that they looked at the Church of Salvation

(43:24):
was the it was the father, right, okay?

Speaker 8 (43:27):
Right?

Speaker 3 (43:28):
So what we called the other woman? The other woman
have powers and stuff?

Speaker 1 (43:33):
Which one?

Speaker 6 (43:34):
And Annie, yeah smokes wife, Oh oh yeah. I could
not think of the name. I know it's a name,
and I don't want to say she voodoo because that's
a different thing.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
I think we could settle on voodoo, I mean, because
that's that was actually religion from you know, they called
this uh boo doom. I think it was called voodoom.
You know how things get changed over here. But she
represented some things too, you know, she represented redemption just

(44:06):
in her relationship with him. You know, they broke up
and she you know, she gave him the what you
call that thing that she had around his neck.

Speaker 2 (44:12):
Oh, for god, what she called I call it lucky John.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
We'll go with that one, the lucky charm that she said,
you know, protected him, protected him, you know, and she
couldn't protect everybody. Obviously. He said, well, what did it
do for our son?

Speaker 2 (44:27):
I thought it was a daughter, the child, their child.

Speaker 5 (44:34):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (44:35):
Well yeah, but you know that that's the whole question
of God too, because you know, God is supposed to
be salvation, but he ain't saved them slaves, He didn't
save them Jews.

Speaker 2 (44:45):
You know.

Speaker 6 (44:45):
So people all the time are just saying, like they
questioned that, So that's that's the same thing he was questioning.
If you believe so highly in this God, why didn't
he save us? Why didn't he save our child?

Speaker 1 (44:59):
And I'm not sure I can't remember if He actually
mentioned that because usually when you have these type of movies,
they will bring that sort of element in there some
sort of way you know, why why me? Or you
know why me? God? Yeah? Yeah, So okay, I guess
that that depends on how you look at it in
your person.

Speaker 6 (45:19):
Yeah, and who you are in this film, because for
the Preacher it was everything.

Speaker 1 (45:24):
Now are the sinners the ones who were actually everybody
confessing or the ones who are judging?

Speaker 2 (45:31):
Everybody was centers in that movie, everybody.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
Everybody, But so who was doing the judging as.

Speaker 2 (45:38):
Far as what what do you mean who's saying that
you're sinning?

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Yeah? Like so there's a there's all there's an element
of judgment, like I'm judging you for your behavior, I'm
judging you for all these different things. Who were the
who were the who represented the element of judging the
p yeah, Preacher.

Speaker 2 (45:54):
The Preacher, yeah, the father Yeah okay.

Speaker 1 (45:57):
Then for well that it was the we talked about judging,
Well the sinners. You said everybody was a sinner.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
I felt like everybody was ever.

Speaker 6 (46:12):
Yeah, yeah, who you like, because when we broke it down,
like there was greed, everybody had a little bit of that.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
There was this. Everybody had a little bit of that.

Speaker 6 (46:20):
Maybe Grace and her husband didn't have lost, but they
loved each other so they you know, so everybody had
a little bit.

Speaker 2 (46:27):
I think the Asian people didn't have. Oh there might
have been greed.

Speaker 6 (46:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what we were saying. They had,
you know, money, they were looking out for that that
coin too.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
M okay, okay, I could assume with that. Now here's
there's the fun part. Oh lord, oh lord, who was
the real villain in this movie?

Speaker 2 (46:50):
Mm hmm.

Speaker 6 (46:52):
Grace, She's the Asian lady.

Speaker 2 (47:02):
Grace is the lady. Okay, So why would you say.

Speaker 6 (47:05):
Because because she was the one who's like, just let
him in, just let him in, like they might have
been able to survive in the morning.

Speaker 2 (47:12):
The white woman was the white woman, okay, because the.

Speaker 8 (47:16):
White man is the devil and that and that was
man she was. She caused everything, right, Okay, that's what
I said. She could talk to fellow devil exactly. She
ended up becoming the devil and came in.

Speaker 3 (47:32):
Yeah, they used her to come in.

Speaker 1 (47:35):
So let's go back to Greece real quick. So you
said Greece because she let she Yeah, she was she kicked.

Speaker 6 (47:42):
It up, she kicked it off, She invited them in.
She was the one who said just let them man,
just only and I want my husband.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Okay, yeah, okay, just what was the girl's name?

Speaker 5 (47:53):
Mary?

Speaker 2 (47:54):
Mary?

Speaker 5 (47:54):
All right?

Speaker 1 (47:54):
So pastor Dirty says Mary, because she was the you know,
he said that the theme was the you know, white
people being the devil, and she wanted to you know,
thought she could connect with that element, right, and she
got caught up and became Okay, she also was let
in to the the black bolts in the community and
whatever and started not now people okay, So okay, that's

(48:19):
that's could be a villain, felonious. Who did you say,
is the villain or.

Speaker 2 (48:25):
A villain in the movie?

Speaker 8 (48:27):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (48:30):
M hmm.

Speaker 1 (48:33):
I mean you got plenty to choose.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
Yeah, you definitely got I would say the brothers.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
But well, could they be considered the villain?

Speaker 3 (48:39):
M yeah, because they initiated all of.

Speaker 1 (48:41):
That with the having.

Speaker 2 (48:44):
And being up at the NIRO, right.

Speaker 5 (48:48):
Was our outlet?

Speaker 7 (48:49):
It was a yeah for us yea to be out right,
I would say, I mean it was the white people
AKK involved.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
The k Yeah, okay, I noticed one thing though.

Speaker 3 (49:03):
But the k K came until the end though at
the beginning, but there was they didn't have cost any troubles.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
Or whatever have been causing trouble all along.

Speaker 3 (49:13):
Women for that particle incident ed this in here in
the beginning.

Speaker 1 (49:17):
You remember when Remick went to that house, he saw
the KKK Rover in there, so they were planning on
doing something anyway. So he told him that. He said, well, yeah,
I got you know such and such. He could read
their mind, right, you know, So you had that, and
then you had the where he sold them the mill
knowing that they was going to come back and kill
him and then do it all over again.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
You know what I'm saying. They didn't get the opportunity
to even do that because stuff didn't happened.

Speaker 2 (49:44):
But but they kind of initiated things too, because they
could have not sold it to or.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
They could have not let that that guy in the
house because of the agreed one he showed the.

Speaker 2 (49:55):
White okay, the white couple in the beginning.

Speaker 1 (50:00):
Oh yeah, yeah, and you know that the chopp Taw
Indians were coming to grab to help.

Speaker 6 (50:06):
Yeah yeah, and grab the guy because you didn't look
like me.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
I was not gonna pay attention to.

Speaker 3 (50:13):
But No, I don't. I don't think that was the
case though, But I feel like they felt like the guy.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
Was in distress, you know, because he was white and distressed. Oh,
they didn't care because they didn't let him in. They
were initially they weren't let him in because he had gold.

Speaker 5 (50:28):
Right.

Speaker 6 (50:29):
Oh, he showed them the go right right right, and
then once he saw their robes, he was like, oh,
I got him, I got him.

Speaker 1 (50:36):
Okay. So I didn't notice though. This is the one
thing nobody said. Remick, no, the vampire.

Speaker 2 (50:42):
No. I did not know his name the entire time
until I googled Sinners cast right. Nobody said that Remick
was the actual villain of the movie. Oh, I thought
you were saying you didn't, was he though? Okay, I guess,
I guess he.

Speaker 1 (50:57):
So here's where here's what I'm saying. I'm gonna say no. Okay,
and for two reasons, well let me say opposite reasons.
Remick his whole thing was and remember he said he
saw the robe all right. Oh, he said I'm gonna
get them right. He also said, after all that was done,
after he got Sammy and rest them, they're gonna go

(51:19):
and get the Klan leader, right, right, So his whole
point was everybody who's who's who I killed or brought
back to life or gave everlasting life or whatever. They
were happy, they were singing, they were dancing. There was
no racism, he didn't there was no bias, and he
was like, well we can, we can make this world

(51:40):
a better place.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
He did say that.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
So technically, is he really the villain or a villain
even though he did kill people?

Speaker 3 (51:48):
Oh he technically he didn't kill anybody.

Speaker 1 (51:50):
Well he turned out.

Speaker 2 (51:53):
Yeah, yeah, all.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
Right, pastor dirty was going on.

Speaker 4 (51:57):
I'm just saying, I mean, if he's learning people and
then hey man, it's whatever you're going to.

Speaker 8 (52:04):
Way too deep for me. My whole idea is if.

Speaker 4 (52:08):
He's the guy out there turning people, I mean, in
the in the whole vampire world, everything is supposed to
be like demonistic, if that's a word, right, So if
he's turning regular people into demons, then you take away
their choices of redemption or being a bad person. So

(52:28):
if you are stealing someone's choice, I think that makes
you evil. I mean, and I think that makes you
the villain because once you're a vampire, you're going.

Speaker 8 (52:37):
To do a vampires dode. You're going to eat people.

Speaker 4 (52:42):
And the thing about the church aspect of it all
is the choice. You have the choice, but once you
become a vampire, there is no choice.

Speaker 1 (52:51):
So Anthony said, Anthony said, the real villain is the
love of money.

Speaker 3 (52:57):
Was going to say, that's what I was going to say,
because I feel like the vamp. So the vampire would
have not gone into their home if because because they
were greedy, they wanted the money, the coin, and they.

Speaker 2 (53:08):
Let him in.

Speaker 3 (53:09):
Those are the first people he turned. The girl also
came out because they had money to talk to them,
and then she got turned. So it started.

Speaker 2 (53:17):
From always money money, so.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
That I feel like turning them was like retribution for whatever,
for the greed.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
They're saying, you know what I'm saying. So that's what
I feel. And Smoke came the town to make money,
you know.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
So if those people already said oh, okay, yes someone
is here he came blah blah blah, none of this
would have happened, you know. But because they're like, Okay,
well there's plenty from where that came from.

Speaker 2 (53:40):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 3 (53:41):
There's plenty of coin from where that came from So
they wanted that and that's how it all spread and
got bigger and bigger.

Speaker 1 (53:48):
Okay, so that's good. Let's let's let's examine that. Sorry,
So Anthony, what when you say the real villain is
the love of money? Did you have any can you?

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Can you point out any specifics outside of polonious?

Speaker 1 (54:00):
It is he frozen. I think he's frozen.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
So all money ain't good money.

Speaker 1 (54:10):
That's true. Now if you then you think about it
going all the way to the beginning. Okay, the money
with the vampire, the money with smoking stacks, stealing still
from Chicago, the money for for the for the juke joint,
the money form getting the people to come in from

(54:33):
we call it from the from the cotton fields, the
money from oh the girl Mary going out there. So
Remick just kind of pointed all that out. He said,
this is I got this and I brought every you know,
everything out. Now at the end it was there's it
wasn't about money, you know. So I guess that's the

(54:56):
the you know, the defeat of the villain, right, you know.
Then again, like going back to what you said, it
was nobody left.

Speaker 6 (55:05):
There were noble villains like well, I guess you know,
Stack and Mary were left, but they were long gone
by then.

Speaker 1 (55:13):
So all right, so the villains could be it's not
just one person. It's not just one it's a concept.
It's the level of money, the Klan, they were definitely villains. Well,
the iss I'm gonna say, okay, racism okay, okay.

Speaker 2 (55:29):
Yeah, I'll say the iss okay.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
M hm okay. So that means that indict the whole system,
then the whole Jim Crow absolutely absolutely so.

Speaker 5 (55:39):
There was depression too.

Speaker 9 (55:41):
It was in the depression area, that's true.

Speaker 5 (55:44):
That's true.

Speaker 9 (55:45):
Crop was like the only main source of income.

Speaker 6 (55:48):
Right, and they probably weren't. They're paying the pennies, I'm
absolutely sure.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
Hmm. So at the end of everything was fool or
more or less a punishment. That was going back to
what Anthony brought up about the casting, the reflection in
the mirror. Here's one thing I now I'm gonna start
the second. Guess you know when he when Stack smelled him,

(56:13):
he said.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
He said, you don't have long for this world, right.

Speaker 1 (56:16):
He said, I can make you live longer. So maybe
he wasn't the vampire, but then maybe could he have
cast it, not cast the reflection because it wasn't the
proper angle.

Speaker 2 (56:27):
I don't know.

Speaker 6 (56:28):
I don't know, because he clearly said when it's my time,
it's my time.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Like yeah, he's like, I don't want to see this
world no more.

Speaker 1 (56:36):
Yeah, he did say that, you're right, you're right. Hmm.

Speaker 2 (56:39):
But the bartender was like, I'm getting out of head.
I was trying to bust out laughing. But he looked
at Merry and was like, Pierre, it was gone, which is.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
Which is funny because we tease, how like when you
see these little scenarios and you like, it's always the
white person that sees a tiger.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
Oh, let me go peck the cat.

Speaker 5 (57:02):
You know.

Speaker 3 (57:04):
Yeah, he was not playing, he was Okay, how about
the other guy that all unfortunately got cut up in.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
Oh you're talking about the piano player.

Speaker 3 (57:15):
No, the guy that was maybe drunk or whatever on
the floor. And then.

Speaker 6 (57:21):
Yeah, the wrong place at the right time, wrong place,
wrong time, all of those wrong place, wrong time because
they hadn't turned him yet. Yeah, he was, Yeah, we
ain't like nobody in here. I don't care, and I
probably would have did that same thing. Sorry, I love you, bro.

Speaker 1 (57:35):
Okay, So we picked up everybody's sins, right, if you
had to justify, just give me one. If you had
to justify anybody sending there, who would it be?

Speaker 2 (57:46):
Smoke?

Speaker 5 (57:47):
Smoke?

Speaker 1 (57:48):
Okay, why why you say smoke?

Speaker 2 (57:50):
Because he killed all of them, he got justice.

Speaker 1 (57:53):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (57:54):
If I had to pick one that, I agree smoke.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
Okay, for the same reason. Okay, Anthony, uh smoke self defense. Okay,
past the dirty.

Speaker 8 (58:12):
But now now wait a minute, what is the question again? Like,
break this question down to me. All right, So who
is the villain? Or so we who sinned?

Speaker 1 (58:22):
Was what you were asking he so we identified like
several villains in this whole thing, right, So which which
one of those characters sin? Would you say it's justifiable?

Speaker 4 (58:36):
Well, now, if you want my opinion again, I'm gonna
give it. The only person sin I believe was justifiable
was the white girls.

Speaker 1 (58:47):
The white girl, the white girl.

Speaker 8 (58:49):
And because you can't blame a white girl for being white,
that's just what they do. Okay, So it was justifiable.

Speaker 4 (58:55):
I believe everyone else, you know, still had the option
to do you.

Speaker 8 (59:00):
Know, right and or wrong. But she's just being herself.

Speaker 2 (59:03):
So yeah, okay, okay, okay, okay, you.

Speaker 8 (59:06):
Can't blame a dog for being a dog.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
No more than that, Okay.

Speaker 4 (59:09):
So I think it was okay for her to just
be that little nosy person. She felt like she was
the she was the go between even though she was mixed,
right she wasn't.

Speaker 5 (59:21):
Yeah, but when you use her, she used her.

Speaker 8 (59:23):
White whiteism again.

Speaker 4 (59:26):
She used her whiteism to try to do something that
ended up being totally wrong, because that's what white people do.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
Okay, women, day y'all gonna get it.

Speaker 1 (59:40):
Women, we're gonna talk about the team.

Speaker 5 (59:41):
So I say something real quick, this is Anthony on that.
I think what it was is her love for what
was it? Smoke that.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
Which one?

Speaker 5 (59:56):
Which? Because because I was Mary first of all, was
not black, I mean white, she was passable. That's the difference.
She was black, sheified and she identified as black. That's
why she an't have any problems with Stack. But I

(01:00:16):
just want to say it was like because she was
she was still in love with Stack, and she wants
the best for Stack. That's what led her outside because
she knew she wants that you joined to be a success.
She wants to be a success.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
I think the opposite.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
You think it's the opposite.

Speaker 6 (01:00:35):
I think it's the opposite. I think she was angry
at him. I absolutely think she was angry at him.

Speaker 5 (01:00:39):
She wouldn't know she had to be loved. She loved him. Yes,
she was angry because she waited for him. If you're
waiting for her for someone they never showed up, you
will be mad, you will be.

Speaker 2 (01:00:53):
Pushed, right, and sometimes that's not.

Speaker 5 (01:00:55):
Understand But that doesn't mean she didn't love him.

Speaker 6 (01:00:59):
Oh no, I didn't. I'm not saying that she didn't
love him. I'm saying that sometimes as a woman, in
your anger, you do dumb ship.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
Oh yeah, we talked about that before too, period.

Speaker 5 (01:01:09):
I don't think that just women. I just say, I
just say, when you're angry, you do dumb stuff. Right,
but let's not let's.

Speaker 6 (01:01:16):
I also feel like she knew her power. I also
feel like she knew her power.

Speaker 5 (01:01:20):
She knew because she knew, because she said she was
she could pass for white. She knew that they would
be she could get more information, they would be more
comfortable talking to her, right to your rest of them.
So yes, she understood that she could pass for white,
for she could passed in a white world, even though

(01:01:42):
to herself she might felt like that.

Speaker 8 (01:01:46):
So was she white? Was she black? Was she mixed?

Speaker 4 (01:01:50):
I mean wearing the movie, do they exactly tell you
she identified?

Speaker 5 (01:01:55):
She identified black and from now from honestand and she
identified as black, but she knew she could pass for white.

Speaker 1 (01:02:05):
Yeah. Her it was her father's father, her great grandma
grandfather was black. Yeah, so you know, and according to
those times, you only had to have a drop drop right,
So that's a.

Speaker 8 (01:02:17):
Fact, right, Okay, yeah, so it stood the case.

Speaker 5 (01:02:26):
Listen, I got I got some cousins that you know,
you look at you see if they look like a
bunch of white people, but they identified black?

Speaker 2 (01:02:36):
Did you just have dinner with my father? So yeah, yeah,
all right, so.

Speaker 8 (01:02:45):
Mm hmmm, I'm going to say, you think you have
enough time in this show because everyone has an opinion.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
So what I just ask about the what villain sin
was redeemable?

Speaker 1 (01:03:02):
Okay, So I'm gonna move on from that. Here's the
thing now in that in that movie, this is what
I picked out of it. So I don't know, we
have three black males here too, and two black females.
At any point in your life, did you were you
told by your parents or grandparents or whatever to say
leave the white women alone because they bring nothing but trouble.

Speaker 8 (01:03:25):
To me.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
Yeah, any of you.

Speaker 6 (01:03:27):
Absolutely told you, oh absolutely, yeah, I'm not white.

Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
I know you think I.

Speaker 8 (01:03:34):
Was told to think I was ever told that.

Speaker 4 (01:03:36):
But I think like history kind of teachers like like
today marks like I'm not sure how many years has been, but.

Speaker 8 (01:03:42):
Today is the anniversary of the pastal race ride, you
know what I mean?

Speaker 4 (01:03:47):
And I started that began yeah from uh an elevator ride.

Speaker 2 (01:03:51):
Yes, yes, with a white woman.

Speaker 4 (01:03:53):
So I think history showed me leave them white women,
or leave white people alone in general.

Speaker 8 (01:03:59):
You know that.

Speaker 4 (01:04:01):
What's the old boy named in Mississippi who went to Mississippi.

Speaker 8 (01:04:07):
I think that's just history.

Speaker 4 (01:04:10):
Rosewood in Florida, and like already events stemmed from messing
with white people, which I think also was the reason why.

Speaker 8 (01:04:18):
Was it smoke? It's not smoke? Which one was the
one that that's what married?

Speaker 4 (01:04:23):
Okay, kind of the reason why everyone's like you better
leave that woman alone. Anyway, getting back to what you
were saying, as far as if my parents or my mother,
she never said it, but I think history and we
knew enough history and we learned enough that it kind
of went without saying.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
Okay, Now, go back to nineteen thirty two Mississippi. You know,
everybody would have been told that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
Even when they said they didn't want to invite them.

Speaker 1 (01:04:49):
Right he said, they said, well, what will happened if
somebody brushes up against them or steps on their shoes
or whatever, It's gonna be problems. So the problem started
when I guess who came in? Okay, even though she
had to drop you know, still you know, and the
who represented the the antagonist of the movie was who

(01:05:10):
the white vampire right now? Was he was he?

Speaker 8 (01:05:13):
Just now?

Speaker 1 (01:05:14):
Was he just a victim, I mean a villain or
was he also a victim?

Speaker 2 (01:05:20):
Well he was. He was a vampire.

Speaker 6 (01:05:22):
So someone somebody turned him.

Speaker 2 (01:05:26):
So remember he said, they came in and took.

Speaker 6 (01:05:29):
They came and took my land. They came and killed
my family. So somebody turned another vampire turned him. So
at some point in his life, yes he was.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
And now he's just like as past the dirty said,
the vampires are just doing.

Speaker 6 (01:05:42):
What vampires did. You can't blame a vampire for being
a vampiret I.

Speaker 1 (01:05:46):
Just want to see that though perspective.

Speaker 5 (01:05:47):
There wa man, But I had something to say the vampire,
I mean the vampire because he said what drew him
to you? It was Sammy's music, right, because he knew
that music was again in touch with the ancestors or

(01:06:08):
whether they said that in the beginning. Yes, so it
was like the music. I was like, that drew him there.
Otherwise he will walk right on past. What if he
never heard Sammy saying right right?

Speaker 2 (01:06:22):
So yeah, so now you're saying Sammy's the villain.

Speaker 5 (01:06:27):
No, No, I ain't say Sammy's the villain. I was
just saying, like, that's what drew him there, But like,
that's what that was. I was. Let me see, I
forgot what term they used, I mean not used, but
I forgot what term movie term it is. But that's
what drew him there with the music.

Speaker 1 (01:06:48):
So could Sammy had been the villain because he was
warned by his father that says, keep dancing with the devil.
You're gonna you're gonna invite him home.

Speaker 5 (01:06:57):
Anyway, answer that question, who who? Who? Y'all say is
the hero? The protagonists?

Speaker 1 (01:07:03):
Oh that's a good that's a good question. So I'm
gonna say the protagonists in that would probably have to
be Smoke exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:07:12):
Yeah you think, yeah, why was he the protagonist.

Speaker 1 (01:07:16):
Why was he the hero of the story because he
got well, some people will consider justice at the end
for the for the people that caused all this. He
he's basically saved, saved sam Sammy, and he actually saved
his brother as well. He wouldn't call that, you know whatever,
but he eliminated that that that evil element of uh

(01:07:39):
for the time being, racist for the time being.

Speaker 6 (01:07:41):
Yes, And and the slaughter house burned down, so they know,
he knew that they weren't going to repeat that pattern.

Speaker 2 (01:07:47):
You know, they're dead, there's no more slaughter house. They're
not going to repeat that pattern, at least not this
group of men. You know.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
He also saved the the voodoo woman from yeah being
a vampire. Yeah, she died. He killed her because because
that's what she was.

Speaker 2 (01:08:05):
The agreement.

Speaker 1 (01:08:06):
She didn't want to be stuck, her soul stuck, as
she called right, right, So yeah, I would say that
that would be him. Now the other side of it,
I think it could also have been I hate, I
won't say it. I think it could have been remicked.
I knew that's what you're say because Remick was trying
to basically eliminate all the societal ills because you like
vampires only when they're sexy.

Speaker 6 (01:08:30):
Okay, I'm a vampire fan, and I hear what you're saying.

Speaker 2 (01:08:34):
I'm not sure I'm going to agree.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
Well that, but but you look at this way, like,
all right, so he wasn't racist.

Speaker 3 (01:08:40):
Nobody cares.

Speaker 1 (01:08:41):
He wasn't racist. That's that's big back then.

Speaker 3 (01:08:44):
Well, vampire is racist. They they what I'm saying.

Speaker 5 (01:08:48):
You know, the Irish was disenfranchised like they were. Yeah,
so that's so that's what this similarity has nothing to
do with, but between black and Irish.

Speaker 1 (01:09:03):
But if you look at what he was trying to do,
I don't think I don't think peak no no, no, no, no,
let me out, hear me out. If you look at
what he was trying to do, right, he was saying,
I'm going to get that bigot over there, right, he
got the first one that was his nephew, the clansman's
nephew whatever. So he was bringing everybody out so wanted
to give them what he Yes, he was trying to

(01:09:26):
give him life and and just eliminate all the biases
and everybody's supposed to be happy and this and that whatever.
So he could have been a protagonist in a weird
kind of way as well, and she's just so roll up,
you just racist against vampires.

Speaker 5 (01:09:46):
I would say, is I could understand his points because
the protagonist has a goal and what he wanted to
do was Sammy's music. And then it depends on how
you interpret it, because you could also flip that and
say the antagonists were everyone that was in the jute

(01:10:07):
joint because they he wasn't saying me that was his
goal and they were preventing him from getting Samy reaching
his goal. So okay, So I guess it depends on
what story are you specific talk about, right, because it's
it's like it's say, if like hearing y'all talk, it's

(01:10:28):
like made me think that that moble story y'all's going
on at the same time. Yeah, and it's not really
clear cut and dry who like who's the villain and
who's the hero.

Speaker 2 (01:10:41):
And that's isn't that how the world is today?

Speaker 1 (01:10:43):
Though that's true, That is true, you know, And that
was a beautiful thing about this movie because there was
so much that you can actually examine in that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:51):
And compared to what's happening today.

Speaker 8 (01:10:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
Yeah, So did any anybody have a particular character they
was rooting for from start to finish. I did the
twins plon.

Speaker 8 (01:11:05):
No no, the one I was.

Speaker 4 (01:11:09):
Really the one was really forward with the with the
drunk guy that played the piano. Wanted him to win, okay,
because he had to. He had to sober up to
help everyone out, you know, typical black man, old black man.

Speaker 8 (01:11:29):
And I like that.

Speaker 4 (01:11:30):
I really do like that, because he recognized that there
was something that needed to be done.

Speaker 8 (01:11:35):
He had to.

Speaker 4 (01:11:36):
Whatever happened sobered him up really really quickly, and he
had to start making moves. He came out of character
in order to do what he had to do.

Speaker 8 (01:11:47):
I didn't want him.

Speaker 4 (01:11:48):
I mean even even during his demise, you know, he
kind of took he kind of took the risk of
like sacrificing himself so everyone else can get away. I
didn't like the way he died, but I was rooting
for him because I thought he was entertaining, was fun,
and you know, he just came out of character.

Speaker 8 (01:12:07):
Now, of course, I know y'all going to talk about
all of the.

Speaker 4 (01:12:09):
Main characters and stuff like that, but I'm not a
main character type of type of dude.

Speaker 8 (01:12:14):
I like the background people, the people who do who
do what.

Speaker 4 (01:12:17):
They have to do to get ahead, you know, not
the hero like smoke and all.

Speaker 8 (01:12:23):
Of them know he's that drunk ride over there. He's
on he's on my team. I'm thinking, yeah, he's on
my team. Make sure you bring me a half a
pint when you come out.

Speaker 6 (01:12:33):
I'm with you on that, because I felt like his
life was so hard that he should have got.

Speaker 1 (01:12:38):
A windy, said the white corn Bread.

Speaker 5 (01:12:47):
I mean, I mean he had a good heart.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
He did.

Speaker 5 (01:12:51):
I mean, he had a wife back home, and so
you know he did it. But he did what he
did for.

Speaker 2 (01:12:58):
His family, right, that's right, that's right.

Speaker 5 (01:13:02):
He was he was being provided.

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
He was in the wrong place at the wrong time,
that's true.

Speaker 1 (01:13:06):
I can't blame him.

Speaker 4 (01:13:07):
Yeah, so he's one of the ones that weren't wasn't
actually greedy then, right?

Speaker 1 (01:13:11):
Not really?

Speaker 2 (01:13:12):
His wife pushed him because she was like how much money?

Speaker 6 (01:13:15):
The wife was, right, while she's trying to survive in
depression era Mississippi.

Speaker 5 (01:13:24):
They had a baby going away, right.

Speaker 1 (01:13:26):
Oh I didn't I missed that.

Speaker 2 (01:13:27):
Yeah, she was pregnant.

Speaker 1 (01:13:28):
Okay, I didn't.

Speaker 2 (01:13:28):
Okay, okay, so okay.

Speaker 1 (01:13:30):
Corate what what what's what was the other Anthony? What
did he say, Anthony Morris.

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
Why are you putting this whole coming in out?

Speaker 1 (01:13:38):
Because that's the only way I can separate. Becam Anthony
m and is a can.

Speaker 4 (01:13:46):
You I think his his screen name, well it's not
on head, but his screen name should be like be
more writer.

Speaker 5 (01:13:55):
Okay, this is my work, gotcha. I I had to
take I mean meet and soon to go.

Speaker 2 (01:14:07):
It's too funny.

Speaker 6 (01:14:08):
Well, guys, thank y'all so much. This was really a
lively discussion. I'm so glad y'all joined.

Speaker 5 (01:14:15):
I appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (01:14:16):
We had somebody else joined, but she didn't say anything,
so it would have been like three girls. And she
made a lot of valid points. But she was telling
me and I'm like what you're saying. So yeah, she
came on just to listen to be nosy.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
Okay, that's right.

Speaker 5 (01:14:36):
But then y'all said something I was I was. I
was sending my message in the chat. But then y'all say, shopping.
I had to come off from you. Like my mother said,
once I start talking, it's hard for me to shut up,
you know. But to somebody made a point earlier. I
think what you were talking about was Sammy May made

(01:14:58):
a deal with the Crossroad Demon. Okay, okay, that's what
because y'all mentioned Steve Johnson, because that's how it was.
Because they was like saying, when he first played, he
was horrible, and then he came back like a Yale
to later then he sounds so great. And still today
they can't figure out how he was able to make

(01:15:20):
it sound like it was two guitars playing at the
same time. They still can't figure out the technique. So
they because he died like I think a Yale two later,
you know, after he made his comeback that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:38):
I didn't know that, I didn't need to.

Speaker 2 (01:15:40):
I didn't.

Speaker 5 (01:15:42):
I d channel.

Speaker 2 (01:15:46):
It will be center channel.

Speaker 5 (01:15:49):
You know. That's where I heard the story from.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
Okay, okay, okay.

Speaker 5 (01:15:55):
So.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
What if you give guys, give us so today's word
of the day is sinners for this episode. So at
the end of the month we also we give a
prize for anybody who gets these words, words or phrases whatever,
So centers for June first. Well, thank you guys for
coming out, and please subscribe www. Dot Hot Topics.

Speaker 2 (01:16:22):
It's t O P I X podcast dot.

Speaker 1 (01:16:25):
Com and h feel free to join us in any
future episode.

Speaker 5 (01:16:30):
Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Speaker 6 (01:16:33):
Love, Thanks, thank you family for listening to the latest
episode of Hot Topics.

Speaker 2 (01:16:42):
As usual, listen, like, share, subscribe, time