Bedrock is an international Data Science & AI services practice specialising in data-driven business change.
We design and manage tailor-made programs from ideation to execution and ongoing support.
Data Stand-up! is a podcast Produced by our team at our global HQ at LA PIPA Studios that strives to share the knowledge acquired through our extensive experience. Guests to this show join this knowledge transfer by sharing their own experience and knowledge.
Before founding MetaMeta, Scott was the Master Data Market Development and Innovation Lead at Dun & Bradstreet, where he reimagined, redefined and repositioned the company’s master data offering and took the service to a whole new level. He has also worked with some of the world’s most popular data brands including Nielsen, Microsoft, Kantar, NPD and also some start-ups such as Qoints and Spiceworks.
When he is not directly working with businesses to sort out their master data journey, he is busy spreading the word through conferences, speaking events, webinars, podcasts, blogs, and his own YouTube channel.
Here comes the storytelling aspect as you will also need to convince your business leaders and stakeholders on investing in data management. Thanks Scott!
We design and manage tailor-made programs from ideation to execution and ongoing support.
Data Stand-up! is a podcast Produced by our team at our global HQ at LA PIPA Studios that strives to share the knowledge acquired through our extensive experience. Guests to this show join this knowledge transfer by sharing their own experience and knowledge.
Before founding MetaMeta, Scott was the Master Data Market Development and Innovation Lead at Dun & Bradstreet, where he reimagined, redefined and repositioned the company’s master data offering and took the service to a whole new level. He has also worked with some of the world’s most popular data brands including Nielsen, Microsoft, Kantar, NPD and also some start-ups such as Qoints and Spiceworks.
When he is not directly working with businesses to sort out their master data journey, he is busy spreading the word through conferences, speaking events, webinars, podcasts, blogs, and his own YouTube channel.
Here comes the storytelling aspect as you will also need to convince your business leaders and stakeholders on investing in data management. Thanks Scott!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:28):
Good morning. It's called how are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Friday's us? How are you nice to talk to you?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
It's been a busy morning, to be honest. Here it's
two pm already in Spain. It's been a busy day.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
How are you doing there? You're in New York right.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
I'm in Connecticut, which is not too far from New York,
about fifty miles.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
It's going to be a busy day for me too.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
I've got a couple of podcasts, I have a couple
of live presentations going on, so ready to kick off
the day with you.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
You sound optimistic guy like I could feel that you're
used to doing podcast especially when we started recording like
five minutes ago, so I feel it's going to be
a good one anyhow, Yes, to set up a brief
context on where you come from in terms of professional background,
I know that you started on Nielsen quite a few
(01:18):
years ago, right, a company that has a strong focused
on gathering data and monetizing it. You also did some
work for countermedia, so I like to know how you
got immersed in the data discipline and how did you
evolve to the professional adventure where you are now, which
(01:41):
is meta meta consulting.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Matamatic consulting.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
We're about what it's about. I've spent my career talking
about data. That's what I'm really good at. I tend
to focus on the data management side of the space,
determining the truth in data before people derive meaning from it,
which is more analytics, data science, you know, that gets
all the attention. People tend to really get excited about
(02:08):
where data ends up. I try to get people excited
about where data starts. So my beginning, my start in
my data journey, if you will, Yes, was that a
company that became part of Nielsen.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
We were very early.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
I think, you know, folks like Nielsen then a Bradstreet,
who I worked for at Kantar. They've been monetizing data forever.
That's their business. So I really came from decades of
experiencing what it's like to explain the strategic value of
data to.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
The business side.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
That's something that has helped me succeed today because a
lot more people want to spend a lot more time
explaining the value of data of the business side. So
I seem to have, you know, stumbled onto a way
to really leverage my decades of experience in data management.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
But at the same time and just recopying on what
you said. Even though there are many talking about data
science like we do. For instance, an important and a
key foundational part of feature on every brick that we
do for our clients is gathering the right data, merging
it correctly, making sure that you have the write infrastructure
(03:22):
to support.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
The data management. So I guess that's the important part.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
On how you communicate that, right, Not many organizations know
that this is the foundation of all of the analytics
work that may come later on Right, that's.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Why we call it the foundation. Try and remind people
through that very simple metaphor. You want to build a
house of insight, you've got to make sure you've got
a solid foundation of standardized master data reference data metadata underneath.
Otherwise things aren't going to integrate correctly. The way you
(03:57):
aggregate stuff isn't going to work. Hierarchies are going to
be broken, categorizations are going to be missing a lot
of the really basic basic stuff that causes a ton
of data problems.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
From my own experience, a lot of maybe not failed,
but delayed initiatives are delayed just because of this, right
because they are looking at how they can monetize or
utilize that data to derive insights, but they haven't really
paid attention to the different data sources that are at hand,
(04:31):
how to make the data imagenious, how to make sure
that you are using the data that is fit for.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Purpose, and all of that. So I really agree with that. Okay,
And now quick question.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Because I do know that you come from a major
in history, and I wonder if you ever thought of
being immersed in this discipline or in this practice or
you did.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Not, of course ever ever, ever will put that right outside.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
When I was any history and dramatic arts in college,
I did not think I was going to end up
in the data business. But those disciplines that I learned
from a good solid liberal arts background.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
You know, a lot of people talk about stam.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
It's important, but I come from probably the other side
of the educational spectrum, from the liberal arts side. Studying arts,
history literature, you start to figure out and understand how
to look for the reasons that things happen. You know,
(05:31):
very simple historical technique is the looking for the immediate
cause of a situation and then the underlying cause what
made it happen at that moment, But what were the
things that built up to that that allowed that moment to.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Explode into whatever it happened to be. So talking very
theoretically here, the same thing with arts.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
You look for motifs, you look for patterns, you look
for style. All of these things inform what I do
every single day and the data space. So I'm really
pleased with the background that I had, even though, as
you suggest, I had no idea it was going to
lead me to a career in data.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
No, but you're I mean, you're completely right.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
I mean those techniques that relate to consolidly and to
correlation are very valid.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I think we tend to say that, you know, when.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
You work or you participate in data related trades or initiatives,
you must come from a step subject.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I don't think that's the case.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
I know a few really strong data professionals that come
from the art space, and I think it all comes
down to really having that mindset to appropriately framing the
problem right, which of course you do have. And another
really key aspect in this kind of projects technical practice,
(06:55):
really communicating the value of all of the investments that
you may make in human resources, right, specific human resources
that are able to launch your predics, and if you
have those communication skills so that you can communicate those
insights also when that bread is finished or throughout the
operational phase.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I think that's also really useful.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
In my case, I do miss not having studied some
of the statistical concepts right within my degree. I come
from an aerospace engineering degree, and I didn't have that opportunity,
and sometimes I do miss that key part in data science.
Is there something that you miss even though you're really
(07:41):
strong at knowing how to manage data sets and how
to make sure that companies know how to do it.
Do you miss any of that professional background in your
current days?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Interesting question.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
I'm struggling to find something that I do miss because
I really draw on those things that I practiced and
learned and techniques that I had in my formal education.
I do a lot of presentations. I did a lot
of dramatic arts when I was in college theater, community
theater around San Francisco. After I graduated, I went to Berkeley,
(08:17):
and I draw on that kind of expertise all the time.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
All that kind of training, knowing how to.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Find your spot on the stage, knowing how to convey
a message, in a believable fashion, learning how to use
in todation with your voice, all these kind of techniques
that are really dramatic arts techniques. I think I missed
doing some of that through parts of my career where
I was much more focused on business building.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Today, as a consultant, I do only that.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
So I am really pleased and certainly thrilled at this
point in my career to be able to just do
the funnest stuff possible for me, which is or events content.
You've seen my puppet shows. I write white papers. The
puppet shows get a lot more engagement, let me tell you,
than the white paps.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
And finding new ways to talk about something that people
already know. And that was one of the biggest.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Compliments I got early on when I entered this phase
of my career, which was somebody told me, You've just
given us a new way to talk about what we
already know. And that's what I'm trying to do to
the broader data management community, help them articulate the strategic
value of proper data management. To the business stakeholders and
(09:35):
C level leadership who are going to support it, we're
going to fund it, who are going to allow it
to happen. It doesn't happen throughout an enterprise unless you've
got senior level support to convince those people of the
benefits of what that program is.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Takes a whole lot of soft skills.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
You don't do it by just showing somebody your beautiful
new data model, convey in a narrative in a story
like way that captures their hearts and minds. And you're
competing if you're in the data management part of the business.
You're competing against initiatives from marketing, from sales, from even
the analytics side that tend to be more exciting stories
(10:20):
and more accessible to business folks than what we do
in data management. So it's incumbent on that part of
the world to really be able to tell that story.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Which is why I wrote a whole book about it.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
So I really kind of, you know, the summation of
a lot of my experience and techniques and approaches came
together in the book that I put out last year,
Telling Your Data Story, Data Storytelling for Data Management to
really help that side of the business succeed.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
And I agree it's so important just because I think
traditionally or historically everything in regards to data or analyite
has been perceived as something maybe quite quite techy or geeky,
and telling that data story in the right way, not.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Only sounding optimistic or enthusiastic as you do, but also
convincing as you do too. I think that's important, bit,
and I guess that's how you really got that success,
from being able to communicate it in that way. Okay,
tell me more about meta metic consulting.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
How it started. What are you currently doing apart from
the puppet.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Shows, the podcasts, everything that you do, and if you
want to recap on previous breads that you did in
the past that you don't know you feel proud of
where you took part on or add I like to
know about those, I know in terms of accomplishments, for learnings,
anything that may came to mind.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
We're just the POUW tickets say.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
It's me and my partner. She does the business side.
I do the kind of go to market and consulting work.
It started off a couple of years ago and I
began to look at ways that I could really focus
on the stuff I like doing the best, which were events, content, marketing.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
I mean it started off in sales, so that's where
I got it from.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
I don't I'm not a data management practitioner, even I
don't get my hands into the data itself. I just
am really good at helping people understand why.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
It's so important. So focusing on that why rather than
the how.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Gave me a really tight niche to go after and
try to stake my claim or bring my voice to it.
And when we started off about the business was about
fifty to fifty.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Events, content marketing stuff, and then.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Another the other fifty percent was actually product and so
working internally with companies, mostly data providers, helping them position
or look for data monetization.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Opportunities that they might have.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
And the consulting part kind of faded away for a
variety reasons, a combination of COVID and also it was
a lot less fun.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I was having a lot more fun and.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Getting a lot more satisfaction out of doing the event
side than I was about hardcore consulting a little harder
to find those consulting opportunities. It's so super niche what
I do from a product development perspective, and versus lots
more companies, it was much more accessible.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
To just be part of somebody's.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Event or do a podcast, or do an interview, or
write some content or do a video, all those kinds
of things, which, again I find a lot more satisfying,
a lot more fun.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
When you're consulting, you know, you got to go in there.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
You got to dig into somebody's business. You've got to
find some sort of edge to get them to pay attention.
I learned very quickly, at least in my case. They
didn't hire me to say yes. They didn't hire me
to agree with everything they were doing. You have to
find opportunities. And sometimes it's very political, and sometimes it's
very complicated, and you've got to go deep into there.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I liked it, I enjoyed it. I was good at it.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
But the event stuff and the content stuff, thought leadership,
however you want to characterize it, is so much more fun.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
And I'm starting to do so.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Now we're starting to shift a little bit because we're
getting a lot of opportunities to do internal meetings for companies.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
So I do a lot of.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
External events, but more and more we're finding that companies
have either seen me in an event and said, you
know what, we want to bring that message internally to
our own organization. I've got a session next week with
a global company. They're pulling together about thirty country managers
to talk about a revitalization of a lot of their
(14:58):
systems and better use of data in their business, and
they wanted me to help them establish. Look, before we
get too far on this initiative, we've got to set
a standard.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
We've got to reinforce.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
The value of having this standardized foundational data and everything
we do. So that's my part of the agenda, is
to really reinforce that part and validate what they're already
telling their stakeholders, which is we've got to have data governance,
we've got to have data management, data Stewardship, Master Data
Reference Data MDM R, DMPM, all these foundational parts that
we've got to get going. So for me, that's particularly
(15:33):
exciting to begin to evolve the business a little bit
and expand it to some of these internal meetings with.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
These enterprises who struggle. They all tend to struggle from
the same thing.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
So, yeah, how is it going so far? Because I
guess that what you said earlier is really active.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
There is always a lot of political stuff.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Going on, and you know egos even you know how
things have been done traditionally, and you're coming in and
saying how it's supposed to be to be done. So
if you come as a speaker into those internal meetings,
are you perceived as a consultant that wants to change
how things are doing? Or are you perceived as someone
(16:17):
providing advice and then your message comes across in a
more smooth way.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
What's your feeling right now?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
It's more of the latter.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
It's more okay, I'm validating what that company is. The
folks that brought me in want that company to understand
the hardcore product consulting part. That's where I really have
to push against some culture and it gets like you mentioned,
and I mentioned more political, but speaking at a company
event isn't political at all. It's all you know, there's
(16:48):
a lot more positivity around that potentially.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
So I've found that that's a lot more it's a
lot more fun.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yep. And how do you think this is going to you? Both?
For you? Would you in the future consider, I don't know,
taking some of those technical roles internally and then outsource
those two whoever needs them. After you serve that message
(17:17):
or you provide that advice, or it isn't in your
pipeline or roadmap.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Yeah, I don't touch anything, so I don't get technical
at all.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I'm not schooled in the how to do it, so
I stay away from that stuff.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
And what I've learned in my career is, you know,
you find your position, play it as well as possible,
but also understand your position. Where do you fit in
the broader scheme of things, and how can you become
as effective at that as possible? That at least is
my choice.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
You know, I get it, and I'm really it's really
fun to work. You know, I'm on my own now,
which is a blast.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
I work for very large global companies that has a
lot of plusses and a lot of buses talk about politics.
I was brought into dun and Bradstreet to help them
change the story they had about something that they always did.
It was a foundational part of their business. It was
a piece that touched everything they do. In that case,
(18:19):
it was master data. They had syndicated master data, and
they didn't know how to talk about it as a company.
They didn't position it correctly, they didn't label it correctly.
They barely touched on it in their website. Yes, yet
it was their second biggest business. I ran into all
kinds of buzz saws in terms of cultural pushback from
(18:41):
especially the folks who were already in charge of the story.
I was trying to change the way the company spoke
and positioned one of its major assets, and that took
a lot of you know, without any authority. It wasn't
like they brought me in as you know, a head
of a division or I had to use just your influence.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
And it worked.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
I got to the CEO, I got to the whole
upper level of the company. They started using the language
that I helped them put together and investor day presentations
and investor calls.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
With their clients.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
That vocabulary began to spread across the organization. It was
amazing and ridiculous every single day because there were great
successes and then there were huge conflicts at the same
time about what I was trying to do. But that's
(19:34):
why I started picking up on doing videos. Because it
was a big company. They're i don't know, ninety countries
or something, that they had offices through partners and also directly.
I had to learn how to scale my message. I
had to learn how to be able to get in
front of lots and lots of people without actually having
to get there.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
So that's why that's.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
When I started doing videos, and that's one of my
key deliverables today is you know, being able to do
vid as for folks.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Quick question, how did COVID change your approach?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
In the sense that my own feeling is that sometimes
when you are going through a commercial phase and you're
trying to build up proposition, right, you're going through the
proposal stage of a breat it's sometimes harder to do
it through a conference call, right, even with the video
(20:27):
and everything.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
You're trying to convey a message. Do you miss or
have you? Did you? Did you feel that it's harder nowadays?
Do you miss that physical presence? Sort of say?
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I think everybody does.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
Everybody missed that physical presence When you go up on
stage and you in front of a live audience and
you don't have that anymore, it's a different experience, just
like everybody else. You know, my whole year changed without
any warning. I had events planned for good portion of
the year in twenty nineteen. I had built up enough
(21:04):
of enough exposure and did a whole bunch of things
to then prepare for twenty twenty, went into twenty twenty
with a different set of objectives in terms of where
what I wanted to do, and then all evaporated really quickly.
I had to shift immediately to be able to do
(21:24):
what I did in some compelling way through zoom calls,
through webcams, whatever it happened to be. It gave me
an unusual amount of time to practice those techniques to get.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Better at it.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Lighting, sound, composition editing, all these things that people need
to do when, you know, and I'm by myself, so
I'm watching YouTube videos on how to light your room
and all kinds of you know, camera techniques and all
that kind of stuff. Upgraded a bunch of my equipment,
and I was still relatively successful last year. So I
(22:05):
did as well last year as I had done the
year before. I thought it was going to do better,
but at least we kept kind of that that that
revenue level the same, did a lot of events online,
found uh, and then came into this year going all right,
how do I want to how do I want to
change it again? And so strategically it's been moving along nicely,
(22:27):
but just like everybody, you had to, you know, you
had to figure out how to make do I couldn't
just sort of shut down and now physical events, you know,
I think I've I've expanded.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
My repertoire so I can absolutely you know.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Deliver on camera, deliver the kind of interviews that people
are looking for events you're trying to look for. I
found different techniques to use in presentations. I use some
software now exploring a couple other ones that don't you know,
allow you to be next to your slide instead of
a little thumbnail picture on the bottom. These things have
a disproportionate amount of effect I found, and.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
So so far, so good.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
I mean, but it was I've got my first physical
event coming in the middle of July. There's a session
that people are doing in person, so that'll be that'll
be fun to get back, you know, with people in.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
The same in the same room again.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
But I see an absolute mix going forward of the
physical and digital, and you got to be able to
do both. You know, people go to place and they
also watch TV. So it's not like I'm inventing anything new.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I'm just for me. I'm just trying to find out
ways to improve those techniques.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
No, I completely agree, I mean, we completely agree. A
spect truck.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
We experienced the same feeling and we also had to adapt.
I must say congratulations if you if you were able
to keep the same levels of revenue without that physical presence,
because based on on.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
On your approach, it must have been hard. But it
also gives you wings in.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
This new scenario right where everything is sort of mixed
and you need to play it well in both worlds
sort of say, and those small techniques in regards to lighting,
audio quality, video quality, everything, it's so important and it
makes so much of a difference. And I feel and
(24:22):
I see it from my experience speaking with other organizations
that many still haven't figured out that this is so important,
and they are not turning their camera on and they
aren't using the right microphone.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
You know, it's right.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
I know now it sounds so silly for us in
the past, it didn't, but still many haven't figured it out.
And I think this still poses an advantage for those
that have paid attention to this new paradigma.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
That's how I see it.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
And now back onto the data management bads.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
You know that we had uh these new legal frameworks
which relate to you know, I know these are boring
chronyms like g d PR ccp A. There is another
one coming up. I think it's in Europe. It's going
it's going to it's gonna be called d O r.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
A like DORA.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
All of these, I mean, do you also take this
into account when you're trying to convey that message and
your I wouldn't say presentations, but your consultancy preaks with
your with your clients.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
It's all just a growing trend in terms of data,
you know, controlling data. So I boil those down to say, okay, privacy,
data privacy.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
A lot of data privacies.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Based on be able to manage and protect that data,
make sure the right people see it, make sure the
wrong people don't, make sure you do the right thing
with it.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
If you're doing things with data, then you need.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
To understand where that data comes from and where it's going,
whether it's keeping yourself from being in the newspaper or
on you in the news for a data breach, or
just simply leveraging it for better internal analytics. At its core,
it's still data management. All these new trends, these new regulations,
(26:17):
whatever is coming up next, if it has to do
with technology, and it has to do with data, it
is going to need data management as part of its,
as part of it, And for me that leads to
the conclusion that data management is macro trend agnostic. No
matter where we were, no matter where we are today,
(26:38):
no matter what new is coming, You're still going to
need data management. So that gives me a really solid
place to speak my part of the data journey in
any context.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
That took me a while to figure out. So all
these new.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Things are happening, You're in the space for twenty years,
you wonder if you're still relevant. And if you look
and look and look and listen and listen and listen
to everything new that comes out, you can kind of
decompose it. If it's technology, technology is hardware, software, data.
If there's data, it needs data management. That's a natural
(27:21):
law as far as I'm concerned, And so I find
that little hook. But that's my piece. Am I an
expert in data privacy regulations? Absolutely not. Do I know
that it needs data management? Certainly does? Can I speak
to that in that context without hesitation?
Speaker 3 (27:36):
It makes sense, to be honest, if you try to
putts into everything that is happening and being published and
going out there, it feels a little bit overwhelming. It
is good to be aware of everything that's happening, and
as law as you sort of adapt that message to
make sure that you take those speeds of information into account.
(27:59):
I think, of course it is still relevant and based
on your experience working with clients from different industries, different verticals,
and even different business operations right as business areas. What
are the biggest challenges in regards to DADA management? What
are the largest obstacles that companies are facing right now?
Speaker 4 (28:21):
In your view, I think one of the top ones,
whether it's you know one, two, or three, is how
they talk about it, how they articulate it. Are they
explaining it correctly? Are they getting the support they need?
So it's not so much that implementation and how it
is the why. Once you get support from your organization,
you'll figure out how to do it. If you're constantly
(28:44):
selling it and constantly convincing people, you don't actually have
the time to do it. My whole book was written
to help people tell that story to their non technical
business partners in a way that it aligns with what
those business partners are already trying to do. What you
(29:04):
do in data management must enable the strategic intentions of
your enterprise. You don't have a data management strategy. You
have data management to support your business strategy. I think
there's a lot of folks who are great at data
management who need help figuring out what their business strategy is.
(29:25):
Not that they have to create it, but just understanding
their own companies direction in a way that they can
connect what they're doing to data management to it. That's
the exercise. You don't go to your CEO and say
we need higher data quality. You can kick that out
of the office, like what you're talking to mean about
that for oh, But you do go to your CEO
and say, all right, we're trying to You've mentioned and
(29:46):
you've stated that one of our objectives is to be
the premier partner of choice with our customers and vendors.
We don't have the right data to back that up.
We need customer three sixty. We're trying to improve our
quote to cash process. We're moving from selling our our
widgets to licensing the value of our widgets as a service.
Name an initiative doesn't matter if it's got data in
(30:07):
it or technology in it, then the data management folks
have a seat at that table. I'm trying to help
them get into the room and get the conversation focused
on what they do and why it's so important to
the organization. I see it everywhere. To answer your question
around is it what do I see at these different organizations?
I see the same thing. I see the same issues,
(30:30):
the same problems, the same challenges.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Not exactly the same. But let's just say they're.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
More the same than they are different. And you get
folks who come up to you. I'm in banking and
I have all these duplicates.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
I'm in manufacturing, where you know our product hierarchy is
a mess. I'm in media and we've got this categorization process.
Like you can mixmatch those those industries, you'll find the
same problem.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Duplicates, hierarchies, categorizations, geographies, these four basic kind of the
four horsemen of data, of master data.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
And quick question, do you feel it's not only about
how you communicate that message and how you serve its
importance throughout the organization, but do you think it's also
key to identify the right people to help you say
that message?
Speaker 4 (31:18):
You know?
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Like I know, we we like to call it champions
ourselves in within Metrock, but.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
It may be I don't know those those those people
as speakers that do understand what you're trying to say,
and do understand the technical bits, and they are aware
of the organizational strategy. Do you think it's it's it's
a Valuti approach. Do you think it's something that you
consider doing in the future. Have you already done it?
Speaker 2 (31:46):
You can't do it long.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
You got to find your data champions, your data heroes,
your partners across an organization. HM. They're the ones who
are going to spread your message. If you're talking about
the sales department as a data person, you should have
a salesperson there too, talking about why data is so
important to what they do. That combination is going to
(32:10):
be very powerful. If it's just the data people, whether
it's from analytics or data management, we'll just kind of
mush it all together, because that's how it's seen from
the business.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
They don't split those hairs between.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
Analytics and bi and data management, data governance and data stewardship.
We spend a lot of time in our own echo
chamber talking about these really small differences that really don't
make a difference.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
To the business.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
If they see that their own department representatives are having
success with something that the rest of the audience hasn't explored.
That's going to help a lot. Spread that message, get
that support, win those folks over. I call what I
do data evangelism as a service because and in evangelism,
(32:58):
you've got to do two things.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
You got to get people to believe. Then you got
to get them to practice.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
They've got to be able to understand it and believe
in it when you're not in a row. That helps
by having whoever those partners are.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
I completely agree. I mean, finding those lies is key. Okay, Scott,
I think it's been a wonderful conversation. I really like
how you convey that message. I really like how convincing
and optimistic you sound.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
What's our family superpower? Our families. I come from a
whole long line of storytellers.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
We decided our superpower is our ability to convince people
of things.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Would you agree? You know? Yeah, so it's the just
what we all do. We're all storytellers in my family
one way or the other.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
I mean, I mean, you have to be as I
said before, especially when you are talking about data, data science,
data management, whatever it is, everything in regards to data
sometimes sometimes creates I know, a bit of uncertainty within
a conversation, right, not many people feel comfortable discussing this
(34:06):
because they don't understand it and they feel.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
How would I say, not very attracted by the topic.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
Right.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
It's like for them they have that fear of change
and that fear of evolution.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
So the way you communicate and the way you can
pay that message, I think it's really important because.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
You help by telling a story. Okay, thank you so much,
no problem, And before we close the cough, I always
ask for a couple of things, and if you don't
have something in mind, please forgive me and you can
send me an email. But I always ask which person
would you recommend me to speak to in our podcast?
(34:48):
And please give me one book recommendation or a newsletter
that you're subscribed to that you think it's useful too.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
I mean, somebody comes right up my last and always
a great data friend of mine.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
I'm met him in LinkedIn. He does tremendous content.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
If you want to continue to explore the data management
side of the space, you got to talk to George Furican.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
He runs a site called Lights on Data. He does
tremendous work.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
We met because we both admired our videos, and I
forget which one of us reached out to the other first,
but when we did, we both said, oh yeah, we're
trying to get a hold of you. And he takes
it to the next he takes it deeper than I do.
I'm good at kind of getting people in the room.
He's great at all. Right, Now here's what you do.
(35:33):
He's awesome at the how So, I've got a lot
of great friends in the data space. There's you know,
tons of them, but I had to pick one right
away off the top of my list in terms of
what they do in data management. Talk to George's he's
great on camera, he's got his own show. He does
a bunch of tremendous video content, writing and all the
rest of it.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
And he's an actual practitioner. He actually does the stuff
he talks about. So check him out.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Interesting. I'll get in touch with him, reach out.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
He's got newsletters, he's got content like crazy. So I'll
answer about your questions with one.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
I answer, it felt like you were prepared for this,
wonderful Scott, nothing else really, Really, I really appreciate you
taking the time.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
It's been wonderful forty forty minutes. I hope you enjoyed
this call too, and I look forward to speaking.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
With you again. Wonderful. Thank you so much for the
time today.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
This was fun, Yes it really was. Thank you, Scott.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Take her.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
Instrument the destructed to the students Statut
Good morning. It's called how are you doing today?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Friday's us? How are you nice to talk to you?
Speaker 3 (00:33):
It's been a busy morning, to be honest. Here it's
two pm already in Spain. It's been a busy day.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
How are you doing there? You're in New York right.
Speaker 4 (00:43):
I'm in Connecticut, which is not too far from New York,
about fifty miles.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
It's going to be a busy day for me too.
Speaker 4 (00:48):
I've got a couple of podcasts, I have a couple
of live presentations going on, so ready to kick off
the day with you.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
You sound optimistic guy like I could feel that you're
used to doing podcast especially when we started recording like
five minutes ago, so I feel it's going to be
a good one anyhow, Yes, to set up a brief
context on where you come from in terms of professional background,
I know that you started on Nielsen quite a few
(01:18):
years ago, right, a company that has a strong focused
on gathering data and monetizing it. You also did some
work for countermedia, so I like to know how you
got immersed in the data discipline and how did you
evolve to the professional adventure where you are now, which
(01:41):
is meta meta consulting.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Matamatic consulting.
Speaker 4 (01:45):
We're about what it's about. I've spent my career talking
about data. That's what I'm really good at. I tend
to focus on the data management side of the space,
determining the truth in data before people derive meaning from it,
which is more analytics, data science, you know, that gets
all the attention. People tend to really get excited about
(02:08):
where data ends up. I try to get people excited
about where data starts. So my beginning, my start in
my data journey, if you will, Yes, was that a
company that became part of Nielsen.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
We were very early.
Speaker 4 (02:22):
I think, you know, folks like Nielsen then a Bradstreet,
who I worked for at Kantar. They've been monetizing data forever.
That's their business. So I really came from decades of
experiencing what it's like to explain the strategic value of
data to.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
The business side.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
That's something that has helped me succeed today because a
lot more people want to spend a lot more time
explaining the value of data of the business side. So
I seem to have, you know, stumbled onto a way
to really leverage my decades of experience in data management.
Speaker 3 (03:00):
But at the same time and just recopying on what
you said. Even though there are many talking about data
science like we do. For instance, an important and a
key foundational part of feature on every brick that we
do for our clients is gathering the right data, merging
it correctly, making sure that you have the write infrastructure
(03:22):
to support.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
The data management. So I guess that's the important part.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
On how you communicate that, right, Not many organizations know
that this is the foundation of all of the analytics
work that may come later on Right, that's.
Speaker 4 (03:37):
Why we call it the foundation. Try and remind people
through that very simple metaphor. You want to build a
house of insight, you've got to make sure you've got
a solid foundation of standardized master data reference data metadata underneath.
Otherwise things aren't going to integrate correctly. The way you
(03:57):
aggregate stuff isn't going to work. Hierarchies are going to
be broken, categorizations are going to be missing a lot
of the really basic basic stuff that causes a ton
of data problems.
Speaker 3 (04:10):
From my own experience, a lot of maybe not failed,
but delayed initiatives are delayed just because of this, right
because they are looking at how they can monetize or
utilize that data to derive insights, but they haven't really
paid attention to the different data sources that are at hand,
(04:31):
how to make the data imagenious, how to make sure
that you are using the data that is fit for.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Purpose, and all of that. So I really agree with that. Okay,
And now quick question.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Because I do know that you come from a major
in history, and I wonder if you ever thought of
being immersed in this discipline or in this practice or
you did.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Not, of course ever ever, ever will put that right outside.
Speaker 4 (04:59):
When I was any history and dramatic arts in college,
I did not think I was going to end up
in the data business. But those disciplines that I learned
from a good solid liberal arts background.
Speaker 2 (05:09):
You know, a lot of people talk about stam.
Speaker 4 (05:11):
It's important, but I come from probably the other side
of the educational spectrum, from the liberal arts side. Studying arts,
history literature, you start to figure out and understand how
to look for the reasons that things happen. You know,
(05:31):
very simple historical technique is the looking for the immediate
cause of a situation and then the underlying cause what
made it happen at that moment, But what were the
things that built up to that that allowed that moment to.
Speaker 2 (05:48):
Explode into whatever it happened to be. So talking very
theoretically here, the same thing with arts.
Speaker 4 (05:54):
You look for motifs, you look for patterns, you look
for style. All of these things inform what I do
every single day and the data space. So I'm really
pleased with the background that I had, even though, as
you suggest, I had no idea it was going to
lead me to a career in data.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
No, but you're I mean, you're completely right.
Speaker 3 (06:15):
I mean those techniques that relate to consolidly and to
correlation are very valid.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I think we tend to say that, you know, when.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
You work or you participate in data related trades or initiatives,
you must come from a step subject.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
I don't think that's the case.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
I know a few really strong data professionals that come
from the art space, and I think it all comes
down to really having that mindset to appropriately framing the
problem right, which of course you do have. And another
really key aspect in this kind of projects technical practice,
(06:55):
really communicating the value of all of the investments that
you may make in human resources, right, specific human resources
that are able to launch your predics, and if you
have those communication skills so that you can communicate those
insights also when that bread is finished or throughout the
operational phase.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
I think that's also really useful.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
In my case, I do miss not having studied some
of the statistical concepts right within my degree. I come
from an aerospace engineering degree, and I didn't have that opportunity,
and sometimes I do miss that key part in data science.
Is there something that you miss even though you're really
(07:41):
strong at knowing how to manage data sets and how
to make sure that companies know how to do it.
Do you miss any of that professional background in your
current days?
Speaker 2 (07:52):
Interesting question.
Speaker 4 (07:53):
I'm struggling to find something that I do miss because
I really draw on those things that I practiced and
learned and techniques that I had in my formal education.
I do a lot of presentations. I did a lot
of dramatic arts when I was in college theater, community
theater around San Francisco. After I graduated, I went to Berkeley,
(08:17):
and I draw on that kind of expertise all the time.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
All that kind of training, knowing how to.
Speaker 4 (08:24):
Find your spot on the stage, knowing how to convey
a message, in a believable fashion, learning how to use
in todation with your voice, all these kind of techniques
that are really dramatic arts techniques. I think I missed
doing some of that through parts of my career where
I was much more focused on business building.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
Today, as a consultant, I do only that.
Speaker 4 (08:50):
So I am really pleased and certainly thrilled at this
point in my career to be able to just do
the funnest stuff possible for me, which is or events content.
You've seen my puppet shows. I write white papers. The
puppet shows get a lot more engagement, let me tell you,
than the white paps.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
And finding new ways to talk about something that people
already know. And that was one of the biggest.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
Compliments I got early on when I entered this phase
of my career, which was somebody told me, You've just
given us a new way to talk about what we
already know. And that's what I'm trying to do to
the broader data management community, help them articulate the strategic
value of proper data management. To the business stakeholders and
(09:35):
C level leadership who are going to support it, we're
going to fund it, who are going to allow it
to happen. It doesn't happen throughout an enterprise unless you've
got senior level support to convince those people of the
benefits of what that program is.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Takes a whole lot of soft skills.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
You don't do it by just showing somebody your beautiful
new data model, convey in a narrative in a story
like way that captures their hearts and minds. And you're
competing if you're in the data management part of the business.
You're competing against initiatives from marketing, from sales, from even
the analytics side that tend to be more exciting stories
(10:20):
and more accessible to business folks than what we do
in data management. So it's incumbent on that part of
the world to really be able to tell that story.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Which is why I wrote a whole book about it.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
So I really kind of, you know, the summation of
a lot of my experience and techniques and approaches came
together in the book that I put out last year,
Telling Your Data Story, Data Storytelling for Data Management to
really help that side of the business succeed.
Speaker 1 (10:51):
And I agree it's so important just because I think
traditionally or historically everything in regards to data or analyite
has been perceived as something maybe quite quite techy or geeky,
and telling that data story in the right way, not.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
Only sounding optimistic or enthusiastic as you do, but also
convincing as you do too. I think that's important, bit,
and I guess that's how you really got that success,
from being able to communicate it in that way. Okay,
tell me more about meta metic consulting.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
How it started. What are you currently doing apart from
the puppet.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
Shows, the podcasts, everything that you do, and if you
want to recap on previous breads that you did in
the past that you don't know you feel proud of
where you took part on or add I like to
know about those, I know in terms of accomplishments, for learnings,
anything that may came to mind.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
We're just the POUW tickets say.
Speaker 4 (12:00):
It's me and my partner. She does the business side.
I do the kind of go to market and consulting work.
It started off a couple of years ago and I
began to look at ways that I could really focus
on the stuff I like doing the best, which were events, content, marketing.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
I mean it started off in sales, so that's where
I got it from.
Speaker 4 (12:23):
I don't I'm not a data management practitioner, even I
don't get my hands into the data itself. I just
am really good at helping people understand why.
Speaker 2 (12:34):
It's so important. So focusing on that why rather than
the how.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
Gave me a really tight niche to go after and
try to stake my claim or bring my voice to it.
And when we started off about the business was about
fifty to fifty.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Events, content marketing stuff, and then.
Speaker 4 (12:57):
Another the other fifty percent was actually product and so
working internally with companies, mostly data providers, helping them position
or look for data monetization.
Speaker 2 (13:07):
Opportunities that they might have.
Speaker 4 (13:10):
And the consulting part kind of faded away for a
variety reasons, a combination of COVID and also it was
a lot less fun.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
I was having a lot more fun and.
Speaker 4 (13:21):
Getting a lot more satisfaction out of doing the event
side than I was about hardcore consulting a little harder
to find those consulting opportunities. It's so super niche what
I do from a product development perspective, and versus lots
more companies, it was much more accessible.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
To just be part of somebody's.
Speaker 4 (13:45):
Event or do a podcast, or do an interview, or
write some content or do a video, all those kinds
of things, which, again I find a lot more satisfying,
a lot more fun.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
When you're consulting, you know, you got to go in there.
Speaker 4 (13:56):
You got to dig into somebody's business. You've got to
find some sort of edge to get them to pay attention.
I learned very quickly, at least in my case. They
didn't hire me to say yes. They didn't hire me
to agree with everything they were doing. You have to
find opportunities. And sometimes it's very political, and sometimes it's
very complicated, and you've got to go deep into there.
Speaker 2 (14:18):
I liked it, I enjoyed it. I was good at it.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
But the event stuff and the content stuff, thought leadership,
however you want to characterize it, is so much more fun.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
And I'm starting to do so.
Speaker 4 (14:30):
Now we're starting to shift a little bit because we're
getting a lot of opportunities to do internal meetings for companies.
Speaker 2 (14:37):
So I do a lot of.
Speaker 4 (14:37):
External events, but more and more we're finding that companies
have either seen me in an event and said, you
know what, we want to bring that message internally to
our own organization. I've got a session next week with
a global company. They're pulling together about thirty country managers
to talk about a revitalization of a lot of their
(14:58):
systems and better use of data in their business, and
they wanted me to help them establish. Look, before we
get too far on this initiative, we've got to set
a standard.
Speaker 2 (15:11):
We've got to reinforce.
Speaker 4 (15:12):
The value of having this standardized foundational data and everything
we do. So that's my part of the agenda, is
to really reinforce that part and validate what they're already
telling their stakeholders, which is we've got to have data governance,
we've got to have data management, data Stewardship, Master Data
Reference Data MDM R, DMPM, all these foundational parts that
we've got to get going. So for me, that's particularly
(15:33):
exciting to begin to evolve the business a little bit
and expand it to some of these internal meetings with.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
These enterprises who struggle. They all tend to struggle from
the same thing.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
So, yeah, how is it going so far? Because I
guess that what you said earlier is really active.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
There is always a lot of political stuff.
Speaker 3 (15:56):
Going on, and you know egos even you know how
things have been done traditionally, and you're coming in and
saying how it's supposed to be to be done. So
if you come as a speaker into those internal meetings,
are you perceived as a consultant that wants to change
how things are doing? Or are you perceived as someone
(16:17):
providing advice and then your message comes across in a
more smooth way.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
What's your feeling right now?
Speaker 2 (16:24):
It's more of the latter.
Speaker 4 (16:25):
It's more okay, I'm validating what that company is. The
folks that brought me in want that company to understand
the hardcore product consulting part. That's where I really have
to push against some culture and it gets like you mentioned,
and I mentioned more political, but speaking at a company
event isn't political at all. It's all you know, there's
(16:48):
a lot more positivity around that potentially.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
So I've found that that's a lot more it's a
lot more fun.
Speaker 1 (16:56):
Yep. And how do you think this is going to you? Both?
For you? Would you in the future consider, I don't know,
taking some of those technical roles internally and then outsource
those two whoever needs them. After you serve that message
(17:17):
or you provide that advice, or it isn't in your
pipeline or roadmap.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Yeah, I don't touch anything, so I don't get technical
at all.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
I'm not schooled in the how to do it, so
I stay away from that stuff.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
And what I've learned in my career is, you know,
you find your position, play it as well as possible,
but also understand your position. Where do you fit in
the broader scheme of things, and how can you become
as effective at that as possible? That at least is
my choice.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
You know, I get it, and I'm really it's really
fun to work. You know, I'm on my own now,
which is a blast.
Speaker 4 (17:55):
I work for very large global companies that has a
lot of plusses and a lot of buses talk about politics.
I was brought into dun and Bradstreet to help them
change the story they had about something that they always did.
It was a foundational part of their business. It was
a piece that touched everything they do. In that case,
(18:19):
it was master data. They had syndicated master data, and
they didn't know how to talk about it as a company.
They didn't position it correctly, they didn't label it correctly.
They barely touched on it in their website. Yes, yet
it was their second biggest business. I ran into all
kinds of buzz saws in terms of cultural pushback from
(18:41):
especially the folks who were already in charge of the story.
I was trying to change the way the company spoke
and positioned one of its major assets, and that took
a lot of you know, without any authority. It wasn't
like they brought me in as you know, a head
of a division or I had to use just your influence.
Speaker 2 (19:02):
And it worked.
Speaker 4 (19:03):
I got to the CEO, I got to the whole
upper level of the company. They started using the language
that I helped them put together and investor day presentations
and investor calls.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
With their clients.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
That vocabulary began to spread across the organization. It was
amazing and ridiculous every single day because there were great
successes and then there were huge conflicts at the same
time about what I was trying to do. But that's
(19:34):
why I started picking up on doing videos. Because it
was a big company. They're i don't know, ninety countries
or something, that they had offices through partners and also directly.
I had to learn how to scale my message. I
had to learn how to be able to get in
front of lots and lots of people without actually having
to get there.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
So that's why that's.
Speaker 4 (19:53):
When I started doing videos, and that's one of my
key deliverables today is you know, being able to do
vid as for folks.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
Quick question, how did COVID change your approach?
Speaker 3 (20:07):
In the sense that my own feeling is that sometimes
when you are going through a commercial phase and you're
trying to build up proposition, right, you're going through the
proposal stage of a breat it's sometimes harder to do
it through a conference call, right, even with the video
(20:27):
and everything.
Speaker 1 (20:28):
You're trying to convey a message. Do you miss or
have you? Did you? Did you feel that it's harder nowadays?
Do you miss that physical presence? Sort of say?
Speaker 2 (20:41):
I think everybody does.
Speaker 4 (20:42):
Everybody missed that physical presence When you go up on
stage and you in front of a live audience and
you don't have that anymore, it's a different experience, just
like everybody else. You know, my whole year changed without
any warning. I had events planned for good portion of
the year in twenty nineteen. I had built up enough
(21:04):
of enough exposure and did a whole bunch of things
to then prepare for twenty twenty, went into twenty twenty
with a different set of objectives in terms of where
what I wanted to do, and then all evaporated really quickly.
I had to shift immediately to be able to do
(21:24):
what I did in some compelling way through zoom calls,
through webcams, whatever it happened to be. It gave me
an unusual amount of time to practice those techniques to get.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
Better at it.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
Lighting, sound, composition editing, all these things that people need
to do when, you know, and I'm by myself, so
I'm watching YouTube videos on how to light your room
and all kinds of you know, camera techniques and all
that kind of stuff. Upgraded a bunch of my equipment,
and I was still relatively successful last year. So I
(22:05):
did as well last year as I had done the
year before. I thought it was going to do better,
but at least we kept kind of that that that
revenue level the same, did a lot of events online,
found uh, and then came into this year going all right,
how do I want to how do I want to
change it again? And so strategically it's been moving along nicely,
(22:27):
but just like everybody, you had to, you know, you
had to figure out how to make do I couldn't
just sort of shut down and now physical events, you know,
I think I've I've expanded.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
My repertoire so I can absolutely you know.
Speaker 4 (22:39):
Deliver on camera, deliver the kind of interviews that people
are looking for events you're trying to look for. I
found different techniques to use in presentations. I use some
software now exploring a couple other ones that don't you know,
allow you to be next to your slide instead of
a little thumbnail picture on the bottom. These things have
a disproportionate amount of effect I found, and.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
So so far, so good.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
I mean, but it was I've got my first physical
event coming in the middle of July. There's a session
that people are doing in person, so that'll be that'll
be fun to get back, you know, with people in.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
The same in the same room again.
Speaker 4 (23:18):
But I see an absolute mix going forward of the
physical and digital, and you got to be able to
do both. You know, people go to place and they
also watch TV. So it's not like I'm inventing anything new.
Speaker 2 (23:30):
I'm just for me. I'm just trying to find out
ways to improve those techniques.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
No, I completely agree, I mean, we completely agree. A
spect truck.
Speaker 3 (23:39):
We experienced the same feeling and we also had to adapt.
I must say congratulations if you if you were able
to keep the same levels of revenue without that physical presence,
because based on on.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
On your approach, it must have been hard. But it
also gives you wings in.
Speaker 3 (23:59):
This new scenario right where everything is sort of mixed
and you need to play it well in both worlds
sort of say, and those small techniques in regards to lighting,
audio quality, video quality, everything, it's so important and it
makes so much of a difference. And I feel and
(24:22):
I see it from my experience speaking with other organizations
that many still haven't figured out that this is so important,
and they are not turning their camera on and they
aren't using the right microphone.
Speaker 1 (24:34):
You know, it's right.
Speaker 3 (24:36):
I know now it sounds so silly for us in
the past, it didn't, but still many haven't figured it out.
And I think this still poses an advantage for those
that have paid attention to this new paradigma.
Speaker 1 (24:51):
That's how I see it.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
And now back onto the data management bads.
Speaker 3 (24:58):
You know that we had uh these new legal frameworks
which relate to you know, I know these are boring
chronyms like g d PR ccp A. There is another
one coming up. I think it's in Europe. It's going
it's going to it's gonna be called d O r.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
A like DORA.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
All of these, I mean, do you also take this
into account when you're trying to convey that message and
your I wouldn't say presentations, but your consultancy preaks with
your with your clients.
Speaker 4 (25:30):
It's all just a growing trend in terms of data,
you know, controlling data. So I boil those down to say, okay, privacy,
data privacy.
Speaker 2 (25:39):
A lot of data privacies.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
Based on be able to manage and protect that data,
make sure the right people see it, make sure the
wrong people don't, make sure you do the right thing
with it.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
If you're doing things with data, then you need.
Speaker 4 (25:53):
To understand where that data comes from and where it's going,
whether it's keeping yourself from being in the newspaper or
on you in the news for a data breach, or
just simply leveraging it for better internal analytics. At its core,
it's still data management. All these new trends, these new regulations,
(26:17):
whatever is coming up next, if it has to do
with technology, and it has to do with data, it
is going to need data management as part of its,
as part of it, And for me that leads to
the conclusion that data management is macro trend agnostic. No
matter where we were, no matter where we are today,
(26:38):
no matter what new is coming, You're still going to
need data management. So that gives me a really solid
place to speak my part of the data journey in
any context.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
That took me a while to figure out. So all
these new.
Speaker 4 (26:56):
Things are happening, You're in the space for twenty years,
you wonder if you're still relevant. And if you look
and look and look and listen and listen and listen
to everything new that comes out, you can kind of
decompose it. If it's technology, technology is hardware, software, data.
If there's data, it needs data management. That's a natural
(27:21):
law as far as I'm concerned, And so I find
that little hook. But that's my piece. Am I an
expert in data privacy regulations? Absolutely not. Do I know
that it needs data management? Certainly does? Can I speak
to that in that context without hesitation?
Speaker 3 (27:36):
It makes sense, to be honest, if you try to
putts into everything that is happening and being published and
going out there, it feels a little bit overwhelming. It
is good to be aware of everything that's happening, and
as law as you sort of adapt that message to
make sure that you take those speeds of information into account.
(27:59):
I think, of course it is still relevant and based
on your experience working with clients from different industries, different verticals,
and even different business operations right as business areas. What
are the biggest challenges in regards to DADA management? What
are the largest obstacles that companies are facing right now?
Speaker 4 (28:21):
In your view, I think one of the top ones,
whether it's you know one, two, or three, is how
they talk about it, how they articulate it. Are they
explaining it correctly? Are they getting the support they need?
So it's not so much that implementation and how it
is the why. Once you get support from your organization,
you'll figure out how to do it. If you're constantly
(28:44):
selling it and constantly convincing people, you don't actually have
the time to do it. My whole book was written
to help people tell that story to their non technical
business partners in a way that it aligns with what
those business partners are already trying to do. What you
(29:04):
do in data management must enable the strategic intentions of
your enterprise. You don't have a data management strategy. You
have data management to support your business strategy. I think
there's a lot of folks who are great at data
management who need help figuring out what their business strategy is.
(29:25):
Not that they have to create it, but just understanding
their own companies direction in a way that they can
connect what they're doing to data management to it. That's
the exercise. You don't go to your CEO and say
we need higher data quality. You can kick that out
of the office, like what you're talking to mean about
that for oh, But you do go to your CEO
and say, all right, we're trying to You've mentioned and
(29:46):
you've stated that one of our objectives is to be
the premier partner of choice with our customers and vendors.
We don't have the right data to back that up.
We need customer three sixty. We're trying to improve our
quote to cash process. We're moving from selling our our
widgets to licensing the value of our widgets as a service.
Name an initiative doesn't matter if it's got data in
(30:07):
it or technology in it, then the data management folks
have a seat at that table. I'm trying to help
them get into the room and get the conversation focused
on what they do and why it's so important to
the organization. I see it everywhere. To answer your question
around is it what do I see at these different organizations?
I see the same thing. I see the same issues,
(30:30):
the same problems, the same challenges.
Speaker 2 (30:33):
Not exactly the same. But let's just say they're.
Speaker 4 (30:35):
More the same than they are different. And you get
folks who come up to you. I'm in banking and
I have all these duplicates.
Speaker 2 (30:41):
I'm in manufacturing, where you know our product hierarchy is
a mess. I'm in media and we've got this categorization process.
Like you can mixmatch those those industries, you'll find the
same problem.
Speaker 4 (30:51):
Duplicates, hierarchies, categorizations, geographies, these four basic kind of the
four horsemen of data, of master data.
Speaker 3 (31:01):
And quick question, do you feel it's not only about
how you communicate that message and how you serve its
importance throughout the organization, but do you think it's also
key to identify the right people to help you say
that message?
Speaker 4 (31:18):
You know?
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Like I know, we we like to call it champions
ourselves in within Metrock, but.
Speaker 3 (31:25):
It may be I don't know those those those people
as speakers that do understand what you're trying to say,
and do understand the technical bits, and they are aware
of the organizational strategy. Do you think it's it's it's
a Valuti approach. Do you think it's something that you
consider doing in the future. Have you already done it?
Speaker 2 (31:46):
You can't do it long.
Speaker 4 (31:47):
You got to find your data champions, your data heroes,
your partners across an organization. HM. They're the ones who
are going to spread your message. If you're talking about
the sales department as a data person, you should have
a salesperson there too, talking about why data is so
important to what they do. That combination is going to
(32:10):
be very powerful. If it's just the data people, whether
it's from analytics or data management, we'll just kind of
mush it all together, because that's how it's seen from
the business.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
They don't split those hairs between.
Speaker 4 (32:23):
Analytics and bi and data management, data governance and data stewardship.
We spend a lot of time in our own echo
chamber talking about these really small differences that really don't
make a difference.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
To the business.
Speaker 4 (32:35):
If they see that their own department representatives are having
success with something that the rest of the audience hasn't explored.
That's going to help a lot. Spread that message, get
that support, win those folks over. I call what I
do data evangelism as a service because and in evangelism,
(32:58):
you've got to do two things.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
You got to get people to believe. Then you got
to get them to practice.
Speaker 4 (33:04):
They've got to be able to understand it and believe
in it when you're not in a row. That helps
by having whoever those partners are.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
I completely agree. I mean, finding those lies is key. Okay, Scott,
I think it's been a wonderful conversation. I really like
how you convey that message. I really like how convincing
and optimistic you sound.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
What's our family superpower? Our families. I come from a
whole long line of storytellers.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
We decided our superpower is our ability to convince people
of things.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
Would you agree? You know? Yeah, so it's the just
what we all do. We're all storytellers in my family
one way or the other.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
I mean, I mean, you have to be as I
said before, especially when you are talking about data, data science,
data management, whatever it is, everything in regards to data
sometimes sometimes creates I know, a bit of uncertainty within
a conversation, right, not many people feel comfortable discussing this
(34:06):
because they don't understand it and they feel.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
How would I say, not very attracted by the topic.
Speaker 4 (34:13):
Right.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
It's like for them they have that fear of change
and that fear of evolution.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
So the way you communicate and the way you can
pay that message, I think it's really important because.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
You help by telling a story. Okay, thank you so much,
no problem, And before we close the cough, I always
ask for a couple of things, and if you don't
have something in mind, please forgive me and you can
send me an email. But I always ask which person
would you recommend me to speak to in our podcast?
(34:48):
And please give me one book recommendation or a newsletter
that you're subscribed to that you think it's useful too.
Speaker 4 (34:55):
I mean, somebody comes right up my last and always
a great data friend of mine.
Speaker 2 (34:59):
I'm met him in LinkedIn. He does tremendous content.
Speaker 4 (35:02):
If you want to continue to explore the data management
side of the space, you got to talk to George Furican.
Speaker 2 (35:06):
He runs a site called Lights on Data. He does
tremendous work.
Speaker 4 (35:12):
We met because we both admired our videos, and I
forget which one of us reached out to the other first,
but when we did, we both said, oh yeah, we're
trying to get a hold of you. And he takes
it to the next he takes it deeper than I do.
I'm good at kind of getting people in the room.
He's great at all. Right, Now here's what you do.
(35:33):
He's awesome at the how So, I've got a lot
of great friends in the data space. There's you know,
tons of them, but I had to pick one right
away off the top of my list in terms of
what they do in data management. Talk to George's he's
great on camera, he's got his own show. He does
a bunch of tremendous video content, writing and all the
rest of it.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
And he's an actual practitioner. He actually does the stuff
he talks about. So check him out.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Interesting. I'll get in touch with him, reach out.
Speaker 4 (36:00):
He's got newsletters, he's got content like crazy. So I'll
answer about your questions with one.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
I answer, it felt like you were prepared for this,
wonderful Scott, nothing else really, Really, I really appreciate you
taking the time.
Speaker 1 (36:16):
It's been wonderful forty forty minutes. I hope you enjoyed
this call too, and I look forward to speaking.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
With you again. Wonderful. Thank you so much for the
time today.
Speaker 1 (36:26):
This was fun, Yes it really was. Thank you, Scott.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Take her.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
Instrument the destructed to the students Statut
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