Scott Linden: The Voice of Upland Hunting

On this episode of Hunting Matters, we sit down with Scott Linden, the creator and host of Wingshooting USA, the most-watched upland hunting TV series in America. Scott is a seasoned outdoorsman, writer, and media expert with a deep passion for bird dogs, bird hunting, and the great outdoors. We’ll talk about his journey through television, his Upland Nation podcast, and his mission to help hunters access public lands and wild birds. Plus, we’ll discuss his latest initiatives and what’s next for the world of upland hunting. Tune in for an insightful and entertaining conversation with one of the most influential voices in the field!

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:05):
This is Joe b.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Tar, this is Ramon Roeblist, and we talked to fascinating
people about their love of hunting, shooting, sports.

Speaker 3 (00:11):
And the outdoors. This is Honey Matters.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Well, folks, this week on this episode of Honey Matters
brought about the Houston Spire Club Foundation. We're Joy bar
guest Scottland and of Scotland and outdoors.

Speaker 3 (00:31):
Scott, thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker 4 (00:33):
It's good to be here. We're just talking about Houston
Safari Club this morning at breakfast.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
In fact, yeah, tell us about that conversation, if it was.

Speaker 4 (00:41):
Good, If it was good good, Yeah. Yeah. Everybody's jealous
that you guys have a great gathering every year and
legendary in many respects. And in fact, one of my
friends may be headed your way for that very soon.

Speaker 3 (00:56):
Oh cool, cool, that's awesome. Scott. Where are we talking
to you from? Where are you based out up?

Speaker 4 (01:01):
I'm south and east of the town of Bend, Oregon. Yeah,
Ski Capital of the Northwest. Next season will be the
golf capital, then after that it becomes the mountain biking capital.
So it's all of the above.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah, My oldest son lives in Portland. Yeah, so I'm
familiar with the Bend air a beautiful country up there.
That's so that part of the world has always been
one of my favorites because you can, like you said.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
You can.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
You can be in the mountains in a day, you
can be in the wine country today, you can be
at the beach in a day or less.

Speaker 3 (01:34):
And have you always lived in Oregon?

Speaker 4 (01:37):
No, I was telling Ramona earlier, I'm a kind of
a gypsy. Started in La worked my way up through California,
got as far north as Portland, and then back south
and then over to here. Finally decided I like the
dry climate and the fly fishing here.

Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, I bet, I bet.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
Is it true that part of Oregon isn't going to
secede from the state still and then form its own
independent territory.

Speaker 4 (02:05):
It already has, at least in in spirit. Uh. There
is truly a divide. Uh, it is the divide that
everybody thinks it is. But whether or not would become
part of Idaho or not is debatable.

Speaker 1 (02:22):
And we're talking Oregon versus Oregon State. Is that the
divide there is that one too?

Speaker 4 (02:29):
Go Ducks?

Speaker 1 (02:30):
Okay?

Speaker 4 (02:31):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Does Oregon State even have a college team? Anymore. I
haven't heard anything in a while.

Speaker 4 (02:35):
Yeah, there, they are a powerhouse in some sports. Uh. Football,
they didn't have much of a year. Basketball, we're in
the middle of it. We'll see. But they are a
They're a perennial Top ten baseball team.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
Okay, all right?

Speaker 3 (02:52):
Huh. And I had no clue. I had no clue
with that.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
And of course your money. He was referring to the
conservative side of the state. You know, I have a
and that lives on a farm in southern Illinois, and
he has the same issue in Illinois that you know,
the Chicago thinks there's the state of Chicago and then
there's the rest of the country or the rest of
that state, which is it didn't really matter, I guess
in some of their eyes.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
But Washington is that way too, right with seattlef I'm
not mistaken.

Speaker 4 (03:19):
You know, you could divide the entire West coast, take
the big mountain ranges that start up in Canada and
run down the middle of Washington, down the middle of Oregon,
and pretty much down the middle of California. Put those
of us on the east side of that. Huh, in
southern Illinois, at least politically, Yeah, you know, we all

(03:41):
learned to get along, and the pendulum never stopped swinging.
So you just got to you know, Grinn and Barrett.

Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, I heard the name.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
Greenland's going to be available soon for any up and
coming states.

Speaker 3 (03:55):
Oh my, So Scott, tell us.

Speaker 2 (03:58):
A little bit about yourself. Of course, we want to
talk about what you're doing now. But growing up, did
you grow up in the outdoors or kind of what
was your journey to that world?

Speaker 4 (04:08):
Well before there was a term for it, I was
the poster boy for adult onset hunting. I didn't take
it up until pretty much into my fourth career in
my fifth hometown. But I was lucky enough, and I
think this is where it all started. I was lucky
enough as a kid in Los Angeles of all places,

(04:31):
to have a great scout master who took us all
the entire troop under his wing and led us to
places we'd have never gone otherwise. And I got to
tell you I was down in that country where we
used to spend a lot of time two weeks ago,
hunting for the first time, and thought of Jim Wells

(04:52):
and thank you again, Jim, if you're still with.

Speaker 2 (04:55):
Us, Yeah, yeah, it's And so you mentioned you had
four different careers.

Speaker 3 (05:03):
How did you end up in the career or the.

Speaker 2 (05:06):
Life pathway if you will, of hunting and fly fishing.

Speaker 4 (05:12):
Well, you know, I did a lot of other things.
I was a pretty fast rat in many races over
the years, from the music business, education to publishing, which
led to radio, which led to television. All those things
have kind of prepared me for whatever I've done next.

(05:34):
Learned to write of all places while in music school.
But all of those skills have come together, and at
one point in time, I just said, to hell with this,
I'm going to do what I want to do. I'm
going to talk about the things I want to talk
about and let's see if anybody wants to listen to them.
And started in radio in the outdoor world. I've been

(05:57):
in radio in the business where I'd started a business newspaper,
became the voice of the business newspaper, the face of
the business newspaper, on television, sold it all off to
a big chain. Decided I liked radio and TV, but
I'd rather talk about fishing and hunting, and so that's
what I did. That led in turn to more and

(06:19):
more opportunities. I was the guinea pig along with two
other producers in other topic areas, Michael Bain, Robin Berg
and I created the first outdoor television shows in high
definition and beyond that have developed nine different TV series

(06:41):
over the years, and now I do those. I do
some of those, plus I do a satellite radio show
and a podcast, and I still write for most of
the magazines in our world. I've just narrowed my focus
now to fly fishing a little bit and bird dogs
and bird hunting.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
That is, are we keeping you from something's guid man always?

Speaker 4 (07:04):
Yeah, you kind of glossed over it a bit.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
But I, having having some experience in outdoor television, I
know that you guys were poneers in the in the
high depth world for hunting and fishing TV shows. What
was that journey? Like, how did how did you come
up with that? How did you pitch you know, a
network on that? Because uh, I know, I know all
the ends the pitfalls ab outdoor television, but you know
you guys were are on the front end of that.

Speaker 4 (07:29):
Yeah, we weren't. It was It was a fascinating adventure.
Of course, because I'm not a technology kind of I'm
just a music major. But I had lots of help
once I got into that world and learned flying by
the seat of my pants, but the origins of high
deaf with us and what I did maybe a little

(07:50):
different than most everybody else.

Speaker 3 (07:52):
I had been.

Speaker 4 (07:54):
Creating some specials for Outdoor Channel, and I'd been guest
hosts steing somebody else's TV series for a while on
Outdoor Channel, and they came to me, threw me down,
winded nine me and said we like what you do.
You want to do a fly fishing show for us?

(08:15):
And I said, let me think about nevermind, yes, So
we signed a deal and I got to thinking about
it and called him back and said, you know, I
don't know that I can make a fly fishing show
that everybody else will watch, because you know, I think
I think we want as many people as possible watching it,

(08:37):
So why don't you let me put some bird hunting
and bird dogs in there? And they said okay. So
I called my music school buddy that night and I said,
guess what I'm going to do a fly fishing and
bird hunting TV show And he says, well, you're going
to call it cast in blasts, right, I said, right?

(08:59):
And I write it down that becomes a title. They
call a week later and they say, we like the idea.
We want another show because we think the bird dog
thing is is real workable. So all of a sudden,
I was creating the first two shows in fishing and hunting,
Robin did stuff on scuba diving, and Michael Bain is

(09:20):
still doing stuff on shooting right, and it's just going
great from there. We're lucky. We're kind of the only
guys they actually bought content from. Everybody else was buying
their airtime and putting on whatever they you know, financing
with a four oh one K or you know, second
mortgage or something. We didn't have to do any of that.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
Wow, that's yeah, that's unheard of.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
I mean then and now you know that you're not
buying buying slots and time on television. What changes have
you seen that have surprised you the most in outdoor
television over the years.

Speaker 4 (09:55):
That one, you know, and to this day, most people
think that we're all getting rich because the network's are
are so big and they're just throwing money at us
by the shovelful, when most most of those producers out
there are barely getting by. If they're getting by at all.
Most of them are losing money. The whole high definition

(10:15):
thing has gone around the world at least three times,
has been several massive changes in that world. And then
now it's distribution. You know, back in the day, cable
TV was the be all and end all. Now now
it's about fourth place. We got free advertising supported television,

(10:40):
streaming of various sorts, video on demand, and I'm still
on two hundred over the air television stations, so it's everywhere.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Do you guys do any streaming, any streaming with your programming?

Speaker 4 (10:55):
Yeah? Yeah, my stuff is on about if depending on
how you define it. I've got about four distribution partners
who combine are probably putting it on twenty different streaming services.

Speaker 3 (11:11):
Got it? Got it?

Speaker 2 (11:12):
And your your Your main TV show now is Wing
Shooting USA?

Speaker 3 (11:15):
Correct?

Speaker 4 (11:16):
Yeah, in fact, that's the that's the only TV show
I'm I'm I'm focusing on right now.

Speaker 3 (11:21):
Okay, what's your what's your schedule like with that?

Speaker 2 (11:24):
I mean, you know, I've been involved with some big
game hunting shows, but as far as wing Shooting, I'm
sure the opportunities are endless.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
So are you guys just shooting year round or how
do you manage that television show.

Speaker 4 (11:36):
Well, I'm to the point now where I have so
much material in house I don't I don't even have
to make new episodes. Most of them are in syndication
in one way, shape or form, and I have a
library that will last me another ten years. They've only
been aired once, so when you watch a show, it's
probably brand new to you. It might have been produced

(11:59):
through four or five years ago, and that's worked out
extremely well. That's the that's the model that I think
is going to really do outdoor show producers the best
because it is stuff that you know. In the old days,
we'd see a few what they used to euphemistically call

(12:21):
classic episodes from Jimmy Houston or Roland Martin or Jim
Zumbo or whatever. Those were great shows, and that's why
they were classics back in the day. There aren't a
lot that are produced well enough to stand the test
of time. But some streamers some other platforms don't care.

(12:46):
They just want content, and so they'll fill up their
schedule with anything they can get their hands on. And
and like the other versions of television, often now they're
selling that to these guys. So it works for everybody
in one way, shape or form right.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
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dot com slash Hunting matters. Do you think this explosion
of content in ways that we can consume media has
helped overall quality or hurt overall quality and programs and

(15:25):
what we receive.

Speaker 4 (15:27):
Well, Ramon, I think it's done both. And the analogy
I use because I was in it and I was
just thinking about a session I was in LA a
long time ago. In the music business is it's quite
often really helpful to the consumer to have filters or

(15:48):
a gatekeeper or whatever you want to call it. Back
in the day, if you wanted to make it as
a pop star, you paid your dues and you're saying
it bar Mitzvah's and then you worked your way up
to a showcase, and then you got a label deal
and then you made an album. There are no gate
keepers anymore, even in that world. It's the same in TV.

(16:10):
In TV there used to be one, maybe two networks,
and then they started splitting off more and more, but
still there were program directors who decided whether your show
was good enough to get on or not. Now there's
so much content and there's so much need for content.
It's you know, how can I say this diplomatically? The

(16:34):
standards have been lowered.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Yeah. Yeah, and you know what, there's an audience for
that too, I guess.

Speaker 4 (16:42):
Yeah. You know, if you're a fanatic Gould's Turkey Hunter,
somebody out there is going to make your show and
you're gonna watch every episode and that's the joy of this.
That's the opposite. The other side of that same coin
is if you've feel creative and you feel there's a
need and you're passionate about your topic, just like if

(17:05):
you're passionate about the music you just wrote, somebody's going
to listen to it because it's going to be somewhere.

Speaker 1 (17:13):
What did you do in the music industry?

Speaker 4 (17:16):
I was a performer and an educator.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
What instruments? Let me guess, Let me guess brass?

Speaker 4 (17:24):
Well, yeah, you're right.

Speaker 1 (17:26):
Okay, Well that was that was That's a wide pain brush.
I'm gonna say, I'm gonna narrow it down. I'm gonna
say trumpet.

Speaker 4 (17:34):
Not very often. In fact, I thought, man, I'm looking
in the screen now, thinking is the picture of my tuba?

Speaker 1 (17:42):
Was it? Was it a tuba?

Speaker 4 (17:44):
I was? I was a pretty good tuba player, and
so I was a scholarship kid, and I got all
the gigs and all that and had a lot of
fun doing it, and not just playing symphonies and not
just playing brass. When tests, I probably made more money
play in october Fest than anything else.

Speaker 1 (18:01):
As a tuba player, I have no doubt.

Speaker 4 (18:04):
Yeah, And it was a lot of fun, and I'm
grateful for it. And in fact, one of my mentors
to this day who I thank for every bit of
the fact that I stick to things and I practice
hard whatever I'm working at, is David Godeck. David was
a mentor early on in my music career, and his
lessons are sticking with me to this day.

Speaker 1 (18:26):
Well, I'm a big fan of music of all sorts,
and I know just enough about music and reading music
and writing music. I know just enough to know that
it's not easy, and anybody who can do it with
a little proficiency is a very talented person. So my
hat's off to you.

Speaker 4 (18:42):
Well, thank you. I had a good time in that industry,
enjoyed the heck out of it, capped off a career
teaching at the University of Oregon Go Ducks, and to
this day apply the lessons I learned there to almost
everything I do.

Speaker 3 (19:00):
That's awesome. And he's got an Octoberfest mustache. I'm jealous.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
Oh, remote just likes to wear leader hosing around and
he thinks July is Octoberfest around the house.

Speaker 4 (19:14):
Well, you know, there's there could be a worse attitude
than than a July Octoberfest.

Speaker 3 (19:20):
That's true. That's true.

Speaker 2 (19:24):
So you know, you you've You've done You've done a
lot of outdoor television and things like that. What is
your favorite what is your I might ask you. It's
kind of a loaded question, But what's your favorite bird
hunt to do? What's your favorite bird species to chase?

Speaker 4 (19:38):
That's a hard question because it's as as somebody as
somebody responded to my version that question yesterday, it's the
one I'm hunting tomorrow right right, which is absolutely true.
If I had to narrow it down, it would be
probably a dead heat chuckers and sharp tailed grouse. The

(20:05):
joy of that is you can hunt chuckers until your
knees give out, and you can walk the flats and
the bottoms of the creeks for valley quail on the
way back to the truck. So it's it's almost always
a two fur Yeah, And when the rest of you
breaks down. You go to South Dakota or Montana and
you can walk those gentle slopes with no lavarrock on

(20:29):
them for a bird that is it's really capturing my heart,
and that's the sharp tailed grouse.

Speaker 2 (20:37):
What do you what do you think? I got a
question for you. I heard ugly rumor about you. I'll
go ahead and ask you. Now, is it true that
you've been after every upland bird exceptarmigan?

Speaker 4 (20:49):
No? No, I'm not a bucket list guy, I know,
but I mean, I mean, if I was presented with
the opportunity, I probably would never see me chasing himalay
and snowcock up at the fourteen thousand foot level.

Speaker 3 (21:05):
But.

Speaker 4 (21:07):
I'd do some ptarmigan. But I'm you know, what I'm
shooting at is to a degree less important than why
I got into this world and why people watch my
TV show, listen to my podcasts, or for that matter,
read the magazine articles I write. I like to think
what I'm doing is what they all want to do,

(21:31):
and that is watch my dog's work, you know. And
I do a survey every year. I've been doing it
for fourteen or fifteen years now. I send out a survey,
and I ask all my followers, why do you bird hunt?
And number one on the list is always the same,
watch my dog work Number two and coincidentally, the reasons

(21:53):
I'm in this world Number two is to be with
friends and family in the field. Number three beautiful places,
So one or more of those things is always gonna
happen no matter what kind of bird I end up
getting a shot at. I'll take them all and I have.
I've hunted in incredible places. I added it up. Oh,

(22:17):
I gave a speech Saturday night. I added it up.
I hunted twenty six states. In every one of those hunts,
barring the blizzard and the forest fire and things like that,
they're all incredible. Yeah, and mainly because there's always dogs involved.

Speaker 1 (22:38):
Yeah see, I never thought of that aspect of bird
hunting before. I'm a horrible shot and I've only hunted deer,
and I thought, well, heck, if I'm gonna shoot and miss,
I might as well hunt birds too, because I at
least get to watch dogs.

Speaker 4 (22:53):
That's exactly right. And you know, there's a saying in
the fly fishing world that someday I should make an
exercise of adapting to the bird hunting world. The fly
fishing version is the first thing you want to do
when you try fly fishing is catch a fish, any fish,
and then you want to then you want to catch
a big fish. Then you want to catch a lot

(23:14):
of fish. Then it's not about catching fish anymore. And
we all make that evolution at some point, some of
us because we are bad shots. And I'm television's worst
wing shooter, so I've made a study of that too.
But but it's it is so seldom about a pile

(23:37):
of bodies on a tailgate. It's about all that other stuff.

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Speaker 2 (26:52):
Yeah, you know, I recall I don't do it as
much anymore of a growing up. I grew up in
Louisiana and Northeast Louisiana. We dot hunted a lot. I mean, ye,
that's kind of our existence. And I, you know, and
recalling those memories as the kids sneaking.

Speaker 3 (27:04):
Out of the house.

Speaker 2 (27:05):
My mom knew I was always but just crawling out
of the house at four am. She'd rather me be
in a dougline than be out on the streets, trust me. Yeah,
I can remember us, you know, four or five of
us getting together with our dogs, sitting in a blind,
freezing to death and having the best time.

Speaker 3 (27:19):
Just the camaraderie of it all. Of course, I grew
up watching.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
A lot of black labs work the water duck eating
all our all of our our group had had labs
but what is one of your favorite breeds to watch
and why?

Speaker 4 (27:33):
I'll answer that in that order. I'm a German wirehead
pointer guy.

Speaker 3 (27:39):
Gorgeous.

Speaker 4 (27:40):
My first dog was, and every dog since has been.
And it started out for a very odd reason. Uh.
We moved up here, we both started a business. We
lived in the country, and my wife said, you're we're
getting a dog.

Speaker 3 (28:00):
Sure.

Speaker 4 (28:01):
I tried my best, it didn't work, So we're getting
a dog. She finally relents and says, you can pick
the dog out. So we're driving down the main street
in town and in this red pickup parked along next
to the bank is the ugliest animal I've ever seen.
So I tell her that's the kind I want, hoping

(28:24):
against hope that she'll say, well, then forgot it. But no,
she says, pull over and we park. We get out,
We start walking over to the red truck. About then
my wife's long lost sorority sister comes out of the bank.
They hug, they kiss, they do the secret handshake, and
then my wife says, is.

Speaker 5 (28:45):
That your dog?

Speaker 4 (28:46):
Yes, and it's pregnant.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
How about that come on?

Speaker 4 (28:52):
So eight weeks later or whatever it was, we pick
up this squirming ball of fluff take it home. As
we start exer sizing it. We're living in the country,
so there's fields everywhere. He's running back and forth in
this field and then he stops and one foot comes up,
and then his tail comes up, and then there goes

(29:18):
a pheasant. I said, Man, if he'll do that for me,
I guess I'll go buy a shotgun. I was thirty
five years old.

Speaker 3 (29:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (29:29):
Wow, so I'm still learning every day.

Speaker 3 (29:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:34):
Yeah, that's a that's a gray breath. I love that story.
That's awesome. Yeah, there's just there's something about, uh, I
don't want to be cliche, meditative, introspective, whatever. When you
watch those dogs work and watch a good dog work,
and you know, I never trained train or bread working
dogs for hunting purposes, but I'm always amazed by by

(29:54):
these animals and seeing what they can. Not only what
they know and what they're they're just in eight senses
them to do, but the way they perform to please,
you know, these different breeds.

Speaker 4 (30:06):
Yeah, and you know, think again of the Safari Club
and we all we all get it, but our first
hunting companions were dogs. You know, we've we've been feeding
the tribe together. Are dogs and us for millennia and
somebody that'll be a book by the way, But but

(30:29):
it all comes back to us. It's still baked into us.
The DNA that we have goes all the way back
to whatever they decide is now our earliest ancestor. And
that whole time we've been working with dogs, I had
a writer, We had a writer trail along behind us
on a TV shoot years ago, and we're sitting in

(30:51):
the lobby of this place afterwards, and she says, you know,
watching you guys work is like watching a jazz You
look at Lynn, Lynn looks at Ted, Tad looks at Lynn.
They both look at you. You don't say anything, and
then you all look at the dog.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Mhm.

Speaker 4 (31:12):
It's it's a it's it is a dynamic that the
hair standing up on the back of my neck right now,
there's nothing like it. Working with another critter in pursuit
of a mutual objective. Is it's magical?

Speaker 3 (31:29):
Yeah, it really is, It really is.

Speaker 2 (31:31):
And it's uh, you know, I feel bad for people
have not been able to watch them work to any
extensive degree.

Speaker 3 (31:37):
But it's you know, you you forget, you feel you
forget what a what.

Speaker 2 (31:41):
A masterful skill it is, and how beautiful is to
watch them work. And now I have the images of
a kid of these uh you know, these labs jumping
off a tree stump to retree birds and splashing in
the water, and I'm like, man, these dogs never give up.
I mean, they just they're constantly wanting to have a
good time and please please the owners.

Speaker 3 (31:59):
On another tone, different topic, you know, Ramona and have
had the Ramona and I have had.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
This conversation with several of our guests, but you being
a bird guy and having traveled over so much of
the US and other areas, and it's a real annoyance
to me, especially in these wide open areas of the country.
I flew into Kodiak, Alaska last year and saw one
but these windmills, yeffect on habitats and populations, these turbines,

(32:26):
and we have all over the state of Texas now
as far as you can see in some areas, and
it's just I kind of wanted to get your take
on it. You know, we hear the stories about oh,
well it's you know, it's decreasing, our bird populations are
decreasing greatly.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
And things like that.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
So I'm kind of kind of relying your expertise and
experience to kind of inlign our audience a little bit
about about these turbines and these energy fields.

Speaker 4 (32:46):
Well, it's a two edged sword. Number one. I'm not
convinced that that energy is actually renewable. And now we're
seeing the pictures of all the buried turbine blades. After
ten years, they're obsolete. They have to be thrown away,
thrown away. But barring that and the inefficiencies of that industry,

(33:07):
there's no doubt in my mind it's impacting our bird population.
You put any anything vertical in game bird country or
bird country of any sort, and all the avian predators
are going to use that perch. That's a perch they
didn't have before. Most of our windmills are in pheasant country,

(33:29):
rolling fields of wheat, so there aren't any vertical perchase.
Now that there are, there's a lot more avian predators
then those spinning turbine blades. And I'll give you a
perfect example. So I'm calling somebody to interview them on
the podcast. A few years back, he says, I can't

(33:50):
do it between this time of year and this time
of year, because I'm down in that place. I said, really,
what are you doing down there? There's no bird hunting?
He said, no, my dogs and I have been contracted
by the wind Energy company to pick up all the
dead birds that were killed by the blades. Geez, So

(34:11):
that does happen as well?

Speaker 2 (34:13):
Yeah, I mean are we talking you know, graveyards full
of these birds.

Speaker 4 (34:18):
I mean, how you guys got a full time job
for four months a year.

Speaker 3 (34:22):
Wow? Yeah, that's hard to believe. I'm glad.

Speaker 2 (34:25):
I'm glad you share that with us, because that's I
think that's the thing. People they see one thing and
they think, well, it's great, but they don't understand the repercussions.
And for the life of me, I can't understand why.
You know, people see dead whales and dead birds that go, oh,
this is the best thing since life spread. You know,
this is our next alternative energy source. Here, no effect
on no effect on the environment whatsoever. And then you know,

(34:46):
when they start putting these things up six months later,
you start getting reports a year, two years later, getting
reports where, oh, the population of birds in the US
has been cutting half.

Speaker 3 (34:54):
Well, I wonder what one of those factors could be. Yeah.

Speaker 4 (34:57):
Well, and just for the record, another one of those
factors is housecats. The average housecat outside house cattle kill
a bird a.

Speaker 3 (35:08):
Day, right, Yeah.

Speaker 4 (35:11):
Now most of them are junkos and canaries and whatever else,
but some of them are game bird chicks.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
I never even thought about the predator perch. And I
mean I never thought about it.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
You know that these birds are basically operating whatever out
of whatever tree or telebuon, polling, get on. But now
they've got a variety of cipher positions, if you will,
that they can operate from. That's I never really thought
about that. Switching over here to fly fishing. Fly fishing
you did all your life or is that something that
came later in life?

Speaker 4 (35:41):
And then when I was in the education world, at
lunch one day, my friend across the table said, man,
you are really stressed out. Your head's going to explode.
Let me show you something. After school. He pulled out
a fly rod and he started casting right there on
the lawn at the school, and he said, you should

(36:02):
try some of this, And I did, and it might
have might have kept me slightly more sane than it
would have been otherwise. Again, full on adult, grown up
kid who didn't learn all of that as a youngster.
Didn't have an adult male in my life, per se

(36:26):
in the family situation. So all this stuff, you know,
you find it out of desperation or motivation and then
it just clicks. And that's that's how it worked for me.

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but the first one is what is the appeal to

(39:25):
you specifically about fly fishing? I mean, everybody, the people
who do it that I've talked to all give me
different answers. But what is it about fly fishing that
appeals to you the most?

Speaker 4 (39:38):
You know what I've written on this topic. I've done
a lot of seminars on it. I've taught hundreds of
people how to fly fishing groups and that sort of thing.
And I think the things that keep coming back to
me are Number One, you seldom fly fish in an
ugly place. Some scientists will tell you that the moving

(40:02):
water in a trout stream creates negative ions with me
which make us feel good. I'm a big believer. There's
a bit of a challenge. There's some strategy involved. A
famous author that I used to talk to with once
in a while called it a three dimensional chess game.

(40:22):
So there's all of those aspects of it, and you
can take it as far as you want, or you
can just go out and have a good time. It's
very it's meditative, and as Robert Travers says in Testament
of a Fisherman, someday I might catch a mermaid.

Speaker 2 (40:46):
Awesome, Hey, Scott, So if if somebody's listening and they
kind of they want to, you know, pardon the pun,
and test the waters on this and start getting the
fly fishing. What are your recommendations they get a local
fly shops, they try to find an expert close by.

Speaker 3 (40:59):
How does someone get started?

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Because fly fishing, to me, I've done it a little bit,
not to any extensively. It seems expensive and overwhelming to
begin to be end with it can be, and.

Speaker 4 (41:10):
That keeps a lot of people away from it. And
so that would be the first thing I'd suggest is
it doesn't take a lot of work, it doesn't have
to be expensive, and just blow off all the pipe
smoking tweed wearers out there and have fun with it.
Find a shop that can help you with those aspects
of it. There's a trillion YouTube videos on how to

(41:33):
do everything, but for a couple hundred bucks, you can
be a fly fisher and you can go to someplace
that's beautiful. You may or may not catch a fish,
but it's worth it even if you don't.

Speaker 3 (41:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:48):
Yeah, it's a few times I've done it up thoroughly enjoyed.
I mean, I've done redneck fly fishing. We've actually cast
for panfish and bass and stuff in the Bayous. But
I definitely would like to take at some point take
on more of a you know, the grown up version
of fly fishing where I'm standing in a river. What
are you thinking about, Ramon?

Speaker 4 (42:05):
Well, no, I forget, and then I do have one
other recommendation. I'm a big believer, and I love this guy.
He was taken to us, taken from us too soon.
But his name is Sheridan Anderson, and he wrote a
comic book called the Curtis Creek Manifesto. I carry a

(42:27):
half dozen of those in my truck during trout season,
and I hand them out to anybody who looks like
they're having trouble fishing. It is the ultimate graphic rendition
of all the fundamental things you need to know to
become a fly fisher. Eight bucks and you've got manual
right there. No hoidi TORTI talk, no Latin names for

(42:52):
the insects. It's a comic book, but it's the best
beginners fly fishing annual I've ever seen.

Speaker 6 (43:02):
MM.

Speaker 3 (43:03):
That's incredible. What's the man? What's the name? Once again?

Speaker 4 (43:06):
Curtis Creek Manifesto.

Speaker 3 (43:10):
Curtis Creek Manifesto.

Speaker 4 (43:11):
Okay, it's probably in his one hundred and first printing
by now.

Speaker 3 (43:16):
Got it? So I've never you Yeah, go ahead, Ramon.

Speaker 1 (43:20):
I've never fly fished before, and I've never seen it
done up close. I've seen people, I guess tie bait
tie line that I've seen people, you know, work real
close with the magnifying glass doing stuff. So it's going
to sound like a really stupid question, Scott, and Joe's
used to my stupid questions. So you have what is

(43:40):
supposed to be a bug at the end of this
line and you're just dropping it on the top of
the water. Is that what's going on when you're five fishing?

Speaker 4 (43:46):
Yeah? For for the most part, fly fishing is instead
of a spinner or a worm or a power bait
or something like that, you're using a little imitation of
a real insect. It could be an insect that is
floating on the top of the water. It could be
an insect that's below the surface of the water, could

(44:07):
be a little minnow like critter, something like that. And
the fundamental difference between fly fishing and other kinds of
fishing is the weight of your fly line is what
propels the fly to where you want to put it.
So you need to unlike regular spin casting or spinning

(44:29):
or anything like the bait casting, you have to kind
of learn to work the rod in a different way.
It's a real simple physics lesson. But that's the difference.
The weight of the line moves the fly that's tied
to the end of the line. It takes ten minutes.

(44:50):
You know, some of the best fly fishing students I've
ever had from people from ten years old to one
hundred and ten, quite often women, who understand that it's
not about brute strength. It's about manipulating that rod to
move the fly line, to put your fly right in
front of the fish.

Speaker 2 (45:13):
Yeah, it's a it's a it's definitely a delicate dance,
and I think it's the most frustrating fly fishing trip
I ever had. We were in Arkansas one time and
it was windy, and I was like, oh, this is
not this is not.

Speaker 4 (45:26):
Let me show you the star right about here.

Speaker 3 (45:28):
Oh oh yeah, yeah.

Speaker 4 (45:30):
Yeah, that's a classic. You know, I'm surprised you didn't
tell me about hooking your nostril or something.

Speaker 2 (45:35):
Well, I'm not going to ever admit to that public.
Thanks for pointing that out, Scott. You know, you've been
a writer for many years. I've read your stuff, most
notably in Field and stream and outdoor life. You've been
in sporting classics and all the major magazines. What what
was your impetus behind wanting to be a writer in

(45:55):
an Outdoor Writer.

Speaker 4 (45:57):
Well, you know, it's funny, I've done everything ass backwards.
I was in the PR business before I went into journalism.
That might be the only one. I was in the
radio and TV business before I decided. You know, I
got a lot of material here that other people might
find useful. And luckily, when I was in syndicated radio,

(46:25):
I created and hosted shows for Outdoor Life and Field
and Stream magazines, so I, you know, I could go
to those guys and say, you know, I know I've
never done this before, but you know, you want to
at least try something by me. And and it turns
out that I've I got a lot of experience and
I'm you know, the only thing I'm qualified to do

(46:46):
is teach. So what I find myself doing, and it
doesn't matter whether it's a podcast, satellite radio, TV show writing.
I'm trying to help people become better at something they
really want to become better at. And I guess I'm
okay at it.

Speaker 2 (47:04):
Yeah, you've been You've been around for quite a bit,
quite a while, and you're an excellent writer.

Speaker 3 (47:09):
Thanks the.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
You know, I mean, I write articles from and things
from time to time, and I sometimes I'm kind of like,
I mean, you you've.

Speaker 3 (47:20):
Generated a lot of material, Scott. Let me. Let's be
honest here over the years.

Speaker 2 (47:25):
How do you keep how do you keep from how
do you keep it fresh? How do you keep from
repeating yourself? Because I know you've probably written on X
topic thirty five times, you know, So how do you
keep it new and fresh and exciting for your for
your reader?

Speaker 4 (47:40):
How are you looking over my shoulder this morning? I'm
writing a piece now for gun Dog Magazine, for example,
and it's it's it's on a topic that continues to
come back around this time of year, getting ready for
next bird season. But there is so much information out there,
and there are so many ways to present it that

(48:02):
I never I try not to repeat myself. No editor
wants the second version of what I did for that
other guy. So you've got to make it fresh, and
you've got to think about the topic and how you're
presenting it in a way that's going to appeal to
the editor and more importantly, the reader. So it's about

(48:27):
taking a moment or ten days, or a year and
a half and saying, you know, what do they need
and how can I help them accomplish whatever they're trying
to accomplish. It's truly marketing.

Speaker 3 (48:43):
One oh one.

Speaker 4 (48:45):
I'm just lucky. I only write in subject areas that
I know pretty well. So I'm one of those guys.
I'm my audience. So I think, well, what do I
need to do in February of twenty twenty five. I
need to get ready for October of twenty twenty five.
Or I need to tell people a story about one

(49:05):
of the hunts I went on, because out of that
story will come a tip, a hack, some advice, or
just a chance for them to go. Yeah. I remember
when that happened to me. Wasn't it cool?

Speaker 3 (49:20):
Yeah? Yeah? Yeah? Absolutely?

Speaker 2 (49:23):
You know do you You know these days of social
media and immediate gratification and open lones of communication before.
I'm guessing you probably heard about your articles and your
pieces usually through letters, letters to the editor and things.
Are you Are you able to get more feedback from
your readers now than before?

Speaker 4 (49:41):
Yeah? And I love it. Like I said, I actually
survey my followers every week. I take it back every
other week.

Speaker 3 (49:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (49:53):
I have a newsletter that goes out to twenty thousand people,
and there's a little survey in every one of those,
plus that big one the end of the year. So
I know what they're thinking all the time, and then
I talk with them all the time. They're sending me emails,
a correspond on social media, one big fraternity, and people
want to tell you about their hunting stories, and I

(50:13):
want to tell them about mine. I'm just lucky enough
that they'll listen to mine, but I listen to theirs
as often as possible. And I think that's that's the
joy of technology today, is it. There's no roadblocks, there's
fewer gatekeepers. Yes, we still have editors or a programming

(50:39):
director somewhere at a TV station or radio station, but
we also have alternate roots to communicate directly with with
the source on both ends. And I love it because
again I'm passionate. I'm not going to write about zen

(50:59):
and the art of motorcycle maintenance, but if you want
to know how to keep your dog's feet in good shape,
I got some thoughts for you.

Speaker 3 (51:10):
Yeah, you're the.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
Guy, well being the guy Scott and being somebody who's
been in the business, you know, who is well seasoned
as you are. How would you judge Joe and I
as podcast host so far?

Speaker 4 (51:24):
First off, I don't know if well seasoned is an
insult or compliment. I'll take it as a compliment.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
That's what it was meant.

Speaker 4 (51:32):
And I'll tell you in a minute. But he speaking
of those. So when I was doing local radio, I'm
in the grocery store and I'm talking to this one.
I'm probably saying, get out of the way, you're you're
in front of my beer. And she says, oh, you're Scotland. Yeah,
I said yeah. She says, oh, you sound taller on
the radio. But you're doing great. I'm having a great time,

(51:56):
you know. I you know, I love talking about the
stuff we're talking about. I apprecid that.

Speaker 1 (52:03):
Joe has an ego problem, so it needs to be
rubbed every now and then.

Speaker 4 (52:07):
Well, you know, it's funny. We all we all have one.
It's all in how we manage it. And I'm going
to tell you about twelve years ago, I decided, you know,
I want to I want to do more of this.
I want to be face to face. So I created this.
I guess today we call them brands called feathers. Friends

(52:33):
think about bur dogs Feathers Birds Friends. That's one of
those top three things, so we got all the stuff
we want. It started out as a gathering. I would
tell everybody I'm going to be in Topeka, Kansas on
these days. Come on out, let's go hunting, or at
least let's have a beer after the hunt and trade stories.

(52:56):
That turned into an incredible opportunity. It's it's now called
the somewhat annual for Feathers Friends thing, and it's changed
in various ways over the years. We had a mass gathering.
We had hunting guides from fifty states I'm sorry, twenty
one states. Fifty hunting guys from twenty one states come

(53:16):
out and guide veterans and active duty military at one
of our hunts. We've had variations on that, and we'll
have more variations this year. Forfeathersfriends dot Com is all
about individuals having their own hunts and taking somebody new
hunting to show off their dog. Let me say it
one more time for Feathersfriends dot Com.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
Very clever also, and Scott, you know, I think we
had traded some notes before the show. You mentioned New
York three Initiative Recruitment Retention Reactivation that definitely falls in
line with that initiative across the country.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
How long have you guys been doing that?

Speaker 4 (53:56):
Well, that particular effort's been about twelve years, okay. But
the very first TV show I created for Outdoor Channel
Casting Blast had a segment called take your Kid Hunting,
And that was back in the early two thousands. We
were doing R three before they came up with a

(54:17):
name for it.

Speaker 3 (54:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:19):
Yeah, yeah, I've had that conversation with several people, like, oh,
we've been doing this for years.

Speaker 3 (54:24):
Yeah, and we didn't have to call anything take a
Buddy Hunting?

Speaker 4 (54:26):
Yeah, yeah, we just did it.

Speaker 3 (54:29):
Got What is your What is your outlook on the
future of outdoor writers in this country?

Speaker 2 (54:37):
Because I know I've been part of I've been part
of outdoor writing organizations over the years that have kind
of come and go and changed and modifying things like that.

Speaker 3 (54:43):
Always you know what I hear, Oh gosh.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
We need you know, we can't find younger people coming
up through the ranks to do this, that and the
other are to be part of an organization.

Speaker 3 (54:52):
What is your what is your outlook on it?

Speaker 4 (54:55):
Much like the music business I was in, and then
much like TV, anybody can be a writer. Now there's
you know, if nothing else, you start your own blog
and you just put all your stuff up there, or
if you can only strain together twenty five words or so,
you start an Instagram. So everybody can be a writer.

(55:16):
And and that's wonderful. This is, you know, a different
world that it was fifty years ago. Sure, so we've
all got distribution. Some of that distribution is good, some
is not. You know, we'll ask consumers, will decide what
we like and what we don't like, and and it'll
be either dead trees with ink on them and those

(55:39):
are the guys we like to read, guys and gals,
or it'll be some you know, snippet on Twitter. But
whatever it is, I think it's important that everybody tries it,
you know. And I tell a lot of people that
I get I get asked advice about writing all the time,
and I'm the wrong guy to ask. I just say

(56:00):
down and I spill, and I get lucky. But even
if all you do is write it and put it
on your blog, and you and your grandma and your
wife read it, it's still got value. You've expressed yourself.
You've maybe focused on some things that are important to you,

(56:23):
that's what writing is becoming. More to your point, though, Joe,
the market for writing has expanded, the compensation for writing
has tanked. You know, there was a point in time,
and I was there during those days, right on the

(56:46):
tail end of that, when you could make a full
time living writing for one or two magazines. If your
name was on the mass head at Field and stream,
that was your job.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
Right.

Speaker 4 (56:58):
The pay has gone down the toilet, yeah, and uh
and and it will continue to go down the toilet
because everybody wants to be a writer, and more power
to them. Yeah, the cream always rises to the top,
and some people are going to get paid pretty good
money to be in the bigger outlets, but there's always

(57:22):
room for more.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
Right, Yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
You know, I kind of liking I like, and I
kind of like an NFL football to outdoor writing. And
I know it's a weird analogy, but you know, when
I was a kid, I followed one team in the
Pro and I could expect to see the same quarterback
until he retired, and I knew all the players.

Speaker 3 (57:38):
That sort of thing. Same thing with outdoor magazines. You
fill the stream and outdoor life.

Speaker 2 (57:42):
I always knew if there was going to be Gritz
Gresham and yourself and other people like that that were
always in those magazines, and I was looking for those
articles as a kid every time.

Speaker 3 (57:49):
What did he write? What did she write?

Speaker 4 (57:51):
That?

Speaker 2 (57:51):
You know this issue and that you know it's it's
like you said, that's that's a perfect description to that.

Speaker 3 (57:56):
It's like, there's my favorite writer.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
Now, Oh well, he's trying to make a living somewhere
somehow wherever he can. So you know, you've you've seen,
I mean, you've been a pioneer and outdoor writing as
well as the television outdoor television industry. And now we've
all found ourselves in the podcast world. So not to
be not to be outdone your you have a podcast
as well, tell us a little bit about it.

Speaker 3 (58:18):
What's it called, what's it about? And where can we
find it?

Speaker 4 (58:20):
Well, it is the ultimate iteration of what I did
for twenty years. I made radio shows for Field and
Stream and Outdoor Life and and in one of their
many ownership changes, they pulled out of everything except print.
So I stayed out of it for a while. Then
I got interviewed on a couple other podcasts and I thought,

(58:42):
you know, this is kind of fun. It's kind of
like syndicated radio, but it can be as long or
as short as you want it to be. And so
I thought, you know, there's I listened to everybody else's podcasts,
and in our world, I haven't listened to a lot
of non bird hunting podcasts, and I thought, there's really

(59:03):
need for a different, uh take on how the content
is provided, a more professional, better pacing, better audio. All
those things that I learned from making thousands and thousands

(59:25):
of radio shows, I thought I could apply to the
podcast world. Turns out there is a demand for that,
and I'm grateful for everybody who listens. I've tried to
serve them well. And that's the lesson I learned from magazines.
Back in the day. Duncan Barnes was the editor in
chief at Field and Stream Radio and he said one
day to me, he said, you know, all all we're

(59:46):
doing is serving the needs of our audience. And that's
so that's been my, you know, my overriding concern with
everything I do, including the podcasts, and it is fun
to be back in that world. You know, the thing
I like about your podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:00:06):
We're not an educational podcast by any means, We're just
guys people talking to people and catching up and figuring
out what's what everybody's doing in the world. But I
like the fact that your your podcasts are varied. I mean,
you know there, I think the Central Corps education you
you can learn a lot of stuff. I listened to
an episode of your podcast Uplin Nation.

Speaker 4 (01:00:23):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:00:24):
It's it's uh, you know, it's one of those things
where I I I sit in traffic to Scott listen,
I said, we're live in Houston. I sit in traffic
two hours a day going to and from the office
at a minimum. So I listened to a lot of
books and podcasts, and uh, most of them, I I
don't know, remote is laughing, but most of them, I'm like,
I need to unplug my brain and listen to a

(01:00:45):
comedian or somebody talk about something that's really not reality.
But occasionally I do like to listen to podcasts to
learn things. And I think your you know, upland Nation
has definitely go to a resource for if I need
if I need to learn something in a in a
in a quick comment packed format, definitely. I think you
guys have definitely hit the hit the recipe there.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
Well.

Speaker 4 (01:01:05):
Thank you. And that's kind of like I said, that's
I learned that from Duncan Barnes so long ago. You
better offer up something for for most of your followers
most of the time. Uh, we don't have a lot
of rules. I tell everybody who's on the podcast. The
number one rules, have a good time. Number two rule
is never insult the intelligence of the listener. And those

(01:01:28):
are two rules that I guess you know a lot
of people don't care to follow, right right, Well, keep
trying promote rules.

Speaker 3 (01:01:36):
Don't insult him, so rule.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
And I'm offended by everyone not to what was that.
I'm offended by everything too.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Yeah, No, it's it's a great podcast, and it's definitely
you know, it's it's one that kind of jumped out
of me right off the bat because it's because of
the content. I mean, there's so many out there, you know,
we all get lost in the shuffle now because everybody
is run to it. But it's I agree with you, Scott,
it's it's a great way to have a conversation about
stuff in a long, long format where you can dig

(01:02:08):
into stuff if you want to. People always email us
like what are we talking about? Can you give me
some questions like no, I can't. I learned really quickly.
I don't have time to put together a list of
questions for you. And we're just going to talk and
see where it leads us, which is what That's what
I enjoy about doing the podcast is you just never
know where it's going to go.

Speaker 4 (01:02:24):
Yeah, and you know, that's kind of fun. And we've
done a few of these around the campfire after a hunt,
for example. I'm not going to make a habit of that,
but but they it's the same idea even when we're
sitting here in rooms across the country. It's it's just
a few guys sitting around talking about stuff we like
to talk about. And out of that, my job as

(01:02:45):
a host on my show and your jobs at that
end today is to kind of get some of the
useful stuff to the top of the discussion.

Speaker 3 (01:02:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
Absolutely, absolutely. Let's let's wrap up our conversation today. Let's
talk about your website, find bird hunting Spots dot com.

Speaker 3 (01:03:04):
That's a unique name.

Speaker 4 (01:03:06):
Well, jeez, what a concept. You know, when you ask,
when you ask my followers what they want help with,
what their highest priorities are in terms of what they need.
Number One on the list find new places to hunt.
When I basically revamped my website, I thought, you know, well,

(01:03:28):
that's what I do every day, whether it's on TV,
podcast or anything else. Why don't we just make a
whole website devoted to that. I'll tell stories about the
places I go, give advice on finding those places. That
has served everybody extremely well. And you're right, nobody's thought

(01:03:50):
of the name before. I can't believe it was available,
but it seems to work well.

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
Pretty much pretty much says it all.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
And I think it's great the way the way that
you know, your television and writing experience can tie into
the podcast. Podcast of course ties into the into the
website as well.

Speaker 3 (01:04:07):
But yeah, it's a very cool website. And that's I
guess that's probably the number one thing I.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
Hear from people too, you know, even in Texas where
it's big game whatever, I need to find a place
to hunt. I mean, if you if you're not fortunate
to own, you know, own a ranch or own a
piece of property, which in Texas we're ninety nine percent
privately owned. You know, the question I get asked all
the time that is, I want to hunt this, and
where can I do it, you know, Well, it's find
your place.

Speaker 4 (01:04:30):
Well, I did a seminar on that Saturday, and these
were hardcore wild bird hunters, and half of the places
I suggested they might want to look for more information
on that topic they they never thought of before. For example,
we all know about Bureau of Land Management and the
US Forest Service, but there's great hunting on Bureau of

(01:04:54):
Reclamation land, Army Corps of Engineer land, State school Fund lands.
All of those are wide open, we own them. Nobody
looks at those.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
Yeah, that's true. Yeah, and there's a lot of public
there is public land in Texas to hunt. I'm like, here,
let me send you to this website because there's all kinds.
If you want to go out and shoot a dough
or take your kid hunting on their first ship, there's
places to go and there's good opportunities.

Speaker 4 (01:05:20):
If I remember correctly, you can it's probably fifty or
sixty bucks. I think you can buy a bill, whatever
kind of a permit it is that allows you access
to all sorts of walk in land in Texas. It
may not be near as big a variety as it
is in South Dakota, but there is such a thing.

Speaker 2 (01:05:39):
Yeah, we can, and a lot of times Texas Parks
of my Life will shut down state parks in certain
areas certain times of the year and allow hunting for
a short short periods of time as well. And I
think there's I think there's there's a It's probably one
of our best kept secrets is the hunting the public
hunting program in the state of Texas, because everybody's hunting
on our own property, but there are lots of opportunities
out there. So yeah, you just got to, like you said,

(01:06:02):
find bird hunting Spots dot com. You got to go
out and find them. You got to look around to
do a little research that they are out there. Scotland
and of Scotland and Outdoors has been our guest this week.
Go to the website find bird hunting Spots dot com,
check out Wing Shooting USA television and of course the
upland Nation podcast and Scott's many writings over some of
the best outdoor magazines out there. Scott, it's been a pleasure.

(01:06:24):
Thank you so much for taking time to join us
this week on Honeymatters.

Speaker 4 (01:06:27):
That's my line. I enjoyed the heck out of it.
Thank you to you both.

Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
You bet you bet, Thanks so much, Scott. Yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:06:36):
Honeymatters is a Houston Safari Club Foundation production hosted by
HSCF Executive director Joe Bitar and Ramone Robus, produced by
Ramone Roebus. Please rate, review, and subscribe wherever you listen
to podcasts. For questions or more information, email us at
info at we hunt, wee give dot org

Speaker 4 (01:07:00):
And