Episode 301: Sherlock Holmes: Leviathan

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
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Speaker 2 (00:17):
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Speaker 1 (00:31):
I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere, Episode three hundred and one
Sherlock Holmes Leviathan.

Speaker 3 (00:38):
I Head of Sherlocke very well, since you became a
drumming man.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
In a world where it's always eighteen ninety five. It's
I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere, a podcast for devotees of
mister Sherlock Holmes, the world's first unofficial consulting detective.

Speaker 4 (01:01):
I've Heard of you before, Holmes, the Medland Holmes, The
Busybody Homes, the Scotland Yard Jacket Office.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
The Game's afoot As we interview authors, editors, creators, and
other prominent Sherlockians on various aspects of the great detective
in popular culture. Last we go to fess Sensational developments
have been reported, So join your hosts Scott Monty and

(01:32):
Bert Walder as they talk about what's new in the
world of Sherlock.

Speaker 5 (01:36):
Holmes a time.

Speaker 1 (01:42):
I'm Mill Curtis. This is I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere.
Now Here are your hosts, Scott Marty and Bert Walder.
I thank you very much, Bill Curtis as always, and
welcome everyone to I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere, the first
podcast for Sherlock Holmes devotees where it's always eighteen ninety five.

(02:05):
I'm Scott Monty.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
I'm Bird Wilder Ber.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
Are you feeling a little bit of levity today?

Speaker 2 (02:11):
Yes, I'm about six inches off my chair actually rising
straightforward up to the ceiling.

Speaker 1 (02:17):
Is that a rocker by any chat?

Speaker 2 (02:19):
No, No, it's because I put a lot of hot
air into my pants pockets today.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
Well that makes sense. I mean you're either full of
hot air or off your rocker, or in this case
both oth Yes, fantastic. Well, we have a wonderful program
ahead of us today. We're going to be speaking with
writer Mike Barron, author of the New Graphic novel Sherlock Holmes.
Leviathan be a wide ranging conversation and we'll talk about

(02:46):
his view of Sherlock Holmes and the world of mystery
and storytelling. Lots to do with storytelling, and of course
we will also have our usual features of Sherlockian News,
a chance of listening, and of course everyone's favorite quiz
show canonical couplet, where we give you two lines of
poetry and ask you to identify which Sherlock Holmes story

(03:10):
we're talking about, and I suppose if we play our
cards right, the winner for this canonical couplet we'll receive
a copy of Mike Baron's new book So Perfect. Stay
tuned for that. Meanwhile, if you'd like to support the show,
or if you'd like to make sure you have the
show notes, just go to Sherlock Holmes podcast dot com.

(03:30):
You can sign up for Patreon or substack updates as
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do we use the spinning prize with all? I forget?

Speaker 2 (03:52):
Actually it's a barrel. But the problem is we didn't
take the pickles out, and I don't want to be
the one this the winner anymore.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
You know, I was wondering what that smell was. We
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is a supporter of I Hear of Sherlock everywhere can
listen to the show ad free and receive bonus content.
That's what it is. It's over on trifles that everyone's
eligible for a drawing, So scratch that. But we do

(04:24):
have some news for you with regard to being a supporter.
Starting in twenty twenty five season nineteen, if you can
believe it, we are going to be moving the Sherlockian
News over to part of our bonus content. We'll focus
still on the interviews and we'll continue with Madeline's Chance

(04:46):
of Listening segment and of course our quiz, but we'll
do news and out takes another commentary there in our
bonus content, something a little extra for our supporters, So
get ready for that. In twenty twenty five, Ah, it's

(05:07):
news news you can use from the Sherlockian world we
have in the headlines this time around.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
Bert Well, there are still subscriptions yet available. I know
you're looking, friends, You're looking at the calendar and saying,
my goodness, it's the middle of December. Soon it will
be Christmas Day. But yes, there's still time if you
act quickly, hurry up right now to subscribe to the
Baker Street Journal for twenty twenty four because the extra

(05:39):
added incentive. Of course, the b S Journal BS Jay's
Christmas Annual for twenty twenty four is only available to subscribers,
and it is all about the Five Orange Pips, the
oldest Srilokian society bar none. It actually predates the Baker
Street of Regulars gather around the Sundial. A Night with

(06:02):
the Five Orange Pips. Is a selection of papers that
have been edited by the one and the only Rebecca Romney,
Oh lovely Well.

Speaker 1 (06:13):
Rebecca is a foremost scholar on rare books and has
been with us here on I Hear of Sherlock everywhere before.
You may recognize her name from Pawn Stars. She was
a resident book expert there. She's a member of the
Baker Street Irregulars and the only way you can get
this Christmas Annual, as you said, Bert, is through a subscription.

(06:36):
What happens is people end up coveting the Christmas Annual
later on and it's very, very difficult to find. So
this is the only way, or mostly the only way
that you're going to be able to get it. So
that is good. Well. Also of Jenny Peyton has news

(06:56):
from YouTube. Jenny Payton has long been a Sherlockian who
has cataloged all kinds of things on first VHS and
then disc and of course now across the internet, specifically
regarding video. As you found a series of Sherlock Holmes

(07:18):
radio stories from South Africa. It was broadcast by Springbok
Radio from nineteen seventy nine to nineteen eighty five with
Graham Armitage as Sherlock Holmes and Carrie Jordan as Watson.
There's twelve hours of programs in the Stories of Sherlock
Holmes and some of them are canonical and most of

(07:40):
them are not. But it might make for an interesting
listen for people who enjoy Sherlock Holmes on audio.

Speaker 2 (07:49):
And that's most of us. And you can plan ahead too.
Another interesting news item is it's not too soon to
start thinking about. March. March twenty one to twenty second
five will be the tenth Holmes, Doyle and Friends Conference
in Dayton, Ohio. Thanks to the work of the Agra Treasures.

(08:10):
It's the Holmes, Doyle and Friends Conference. It's going to
be held at the quality Dayton Airport in not the
average Dayton Airport in which is next door. This is
at the quality Dayton Airport in in Dayton, Ohio. Registration
is now open. You can find the link in the
show notes. I've already signed up, so if you would

(08:32):
like to avoid me, you can. You can be planning
which side of the conference room you want to huddle
over in the hopes that I'm not going to see you.
But it's a great conference and I'm looking forward to
it already.

Speaker 1 (08:47):
It is It certainly is quality Dayton in they put
the K in quality. Hmm. Well, if you missed the
BSI Trust lecture that was held back in September, given
by Mattias Bostrom, you missed a good one. Mattias talked

(09:08):
about Charles Hans, who was the managing director of the
Associated Press for many years, and how it was because
of Charles Hans's columns which were syndicated across the United
States that the BSI became fairly well known in those
days in the nineteen forties. It is now available. The

(09:30):
lecture that is is now available through the BSI Trust website,
and I think it links specifically to the University of
Indiana Digital Archive there. You can watch it there, and
also you can look through the past BSI Trust Lecture
series a couple of other presentations there, including from ROBERTA. Pearson,

(09:57):
Ray Betzner, and Stephen Rothman. So it's worth checking out.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
And the other thing you might be interested in checking
out is your bank balance, because there have been a
series of Schlocke and movie props at auction, including friends
Wait till you hear about this, The signed copy of
Professor Moriarty's The Dynamics of an Asteroid had been up

(10:26):
forbid at prop Store auctions on November seventeenth. Now that's
the reasonably authentic signed copy, but I'm sure they have
a provenance for it, and it was estimated at anywhere
from one thousand to two thousand British pounds and at
the current exchange, right, you know, that would be anywhere
from o say thirteen hundred dollars to twenty six hundred dollars. Well,

(10:49):
it went unsold when the bidding didn't get to the reserve.
It was used, of course in the Game of Shadows
Sherlock Holmes Game of Shadows Robert Downey Junior, twenty eleven.
And there's also a sword from Young Sherlock Holns that
was used by Nicholas Rowe and his battle at the
end of that film in nineteen eighty five, and that
was estimated at four thousand British pounds to eight thousand

(11:14):
British pounds, which amazingly also did not sell. So if
you're wondering what to do with all of that extra money,
you can bundle it up and keep your eyes peeled
for the next appearance of these things.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yeah, we'll see if they drop the reserve on those.
I guess Sherlockian's swords are not as in vogue as
they used to be.

Speaker 2 (11:39):
Now would I would be interested in bidding on Brigadier
General Gerard's sword, but only if there's providence.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Them or you know Basil Rathbone sword from Robin Hood
for example. Oh yeah, that would be.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
Actually I never didn't tell you this, but years ago
at auction. I was lucky enough to buy from that
old film Robinhood Basil rathbones mustache.

Speaker 1 (12:04):
Yeah, that's what you've been wearing all these years.

Speaker 2 (12:07):
Well yeah, and unfortunately now it's gone gray. I don't
know how that happened. Probably sun so it was.

Speaker 1 (12:13):
It was authentic. That's good to know.

Speaker 6 (12:16):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Well, on the back of it. On the back of it,
somebody had written love Una. You know.

Speaker 1 (12:22):
So it's a signed mustache. That's what everyone needs. Let's say,
you know it's authentic. Well, before we close up the
news bag here, we did have a couple of male
items that came in from our listeners. Brad Miller in
his missive to us answering the canonical couplet from the

(12:45):
last episode, Firstly, I have finally caught up to episode
three hundred. I suppose congratulations are in order went to
us or him all right, in order from one to
three hundred. In fact, bravo, gentlemen, if I may be

(13:05):
so bold as to use that term, I've begun this
month not only catching up on a year's worth of
ihose Is, but my annual reading of all things Sherlock Holmes.
I can get or have gotten my hands on original
canon pastiches scholarly works, and this will continue through the
end of January. I thank you too for making the

(13:27):
start of that annual literary journey a good one. Brad Miller, Oh,
isn't that nice? It is? And we also got one
from Bangalore, India. Ahman Bargava writes Hi, Scott and Bert.
As you may know, Spotify Wrapped released a few days ago.

(13:50):
I thought i'd share my podcasts Rapped with you. I
discovered ihose early this year and have been listening to
it every day from the first episode since. It's become
my favorite thing to do while on a run or
at work. Living in India, I feel a distinct lack
of a Sherlockian community and events. I've been a long

(14:11):
time Holmes fan since high school, but listening to your podcast,
it is only now that my interest has taken a
full plunge. Thanks for playing the game and thanks for
taking folks like me along. Best regards and wishes for
the holiday season. I'm on, Oh, it's lovely.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
It's lovely, but surely there's I know, don't call you, surely,
but surely there's Sherlockean doings afoot in India. Thanks to
the Scion Society there.

Speaker 1 (14:41):
Yeah, is it the Bengal Tigers of India. Is that
the name of the group or is it just the
Sherlock Holme Society of India. We're gonna have the touch
base with Jay Angouli if she's in New York, and yes, yes,
I talked to her. And of course there is an

(15:01):
expedition planned. Yes year, the Sherlock Holme Society of London,
I think, in collaboration with Jay's group, is doing a
trip to India. Is that twenty twenty five or twenty
twenty six?

Speaker 4 (15:18):
Uh?

Speaker 2 (15:19):
Oh boy, that's a good question. I thought it was
next year.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
Okay, next year has a way of creeping up on
us all this time. So yeah, well that we you
know what, that would make a great idea for an
episode talk about the planning for that trip. And I
guess I've committed to us us to it now that
I've said it out loud.

Speaker 2 (15:44):
Yes, you have here it is. It is in fact
in twenty twenty five. In fact, it's beginning soon February
twenty second to March ninth.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
Oh good goodness.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
Sherlocks in India tailored for the Society by specialists tour
operator Transcenduce not only visits the sites, but you'll enjoy
special events relevant to the world of Sherlock Holmes. And
you can find more about that at We'll have the
link in the show notes. It's probably it's maybe too
late to sign up, but it is Sherlock Holms in

(16:18):
India twenty twenty five, brought to you by the Sherlock
Holms Society of London, and I will send you the
link so you can put it in the show notes.

Speaker 1 (16:29):
We'll do that and that will do it. From around
these parts for Sherlockian news and correspondence. If you have
something you think we should cover, send us a note
comment did I hear of Sherlock dot The holiday season

(16:50):
is upon us in twenty twenty four is almost here,
which makes it the perfect time to get over to
MX Publishing dot com and get your off or someone
you care about a twenty twenty four page a day
Sherlock Holmes calendar. Following the success of the four volumes

(17:10):
of a Study in Illustrations by Mike Foyd, an interesting
collaboration surface between Mike and the best selling Sherlock Holmes
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Each of the three hundred and sixty six days of

(17:31):
twenty twenty four. Yes that's right, you get an extra
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a great way to celebrate Sherlock Holmes every day and
be reminded of the timeless canonical influence in our lives.

(17:53):
Stock is running low, so hurry and grab yours before
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link in the show notes, and if you mention the
code I hose col that's ihos c al I hose cal,
you're good five dollars off. That's an exclusive for I

(18:15):
hear of Sherlock Everywhere listeners. The twenty twenty four Sherlock
Holmes Page a Day calendar from MX Publishing. Put it
on your shopping list today. Mike barn is the creator

(18:37):
of Nexus with artists Steve Root and Badger, two of
the longest lasting independent superhero comics. Barron has won two
Eisner Awards and an Inkpot Award, and he has written
The Punisher, Flash dead Man, and Star Wars, among many
other titles. He's written for The Boston Phoenix, Boston Globe,

(18:59):
Cream Fusion, UI, and Ellery Queen's Mystery magazine. He began
Crown Funding with the Floridaman, graphic novel adapted from his novels.
Next came Thin Blue Line, about two police officers trying
to survive a night of rioting in a Midwest city.

(19:19):
Following that was Private American, about a vigilante on the
Southern border. Mike Barron has written numerous novels, The Biker
and floridamand series, Helmetthead, Whack Job, and Banshee's, which earned
a starred review from Publishers Weekly. Together with New York
Times bestselling author Blaine Pardot, Baron has written Tenure, which

(19:44):
will be released in January twenty twenty five. All of
his self published books can be found at Barrencomics dot com.
Mike lives in Colorado with his wife Anne and three dogs.
Mike Barron, Welcome to I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere.

Speaker 6 (20:04):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (20:06):
Well, let's begin at the beginning, as we do with
all of our guests, and put the question to you,
where did you first encounter Sherlock? Holmes.

Speaker 4 (20:16):
Oh, I was a kid, you know, I picked them
up as a curious youth would I started reading all
the classics at our local library, which was in Mitchell,
South Dakota. And then later when we moved to Madison, Wisconsin,
when I was in high school, they had a group
of the Baker Street Irregulars there, which is a catch

(20:38):
all name for fans of Sherlock Holmes, and we would
meet once a month to talk about the stories. And
so my interest was piqued. And then about three years ago,
I don't know why, but I suddenly decided to watch
all the Sherlock Holmes movies that I could, and I

(20:59):
probably saw it dozen of them before realizing that that
all the Sherlock Holmes movies added together would take about
one hundred years to watch. But you know, I enjoyed
most of them. Most of them were great, and of
course I formed strong feelings about who was the best
Sherlock and who wasn't.

Speaker 6 (21:20):
But that got me into it. And then about a
year ago.

Speaker 4 (21:25):
I got the idea, well, I could do a Sherlock
Homes story and so I did.

Speaker 1 (21:30):
Wow. So when you I mean, there's a lot to
unpacked there, But when you viewed those a dozen or
so movies. Was there any particular series or actor that
you focused on, and who among them were your favorites.

Speaker 4 (21:46):
Jeremy Brett is my favorite. I think he's the best
Homes ever, and of course that was the BBC series
that came out in the eighties. I thought he captured
Home's personality more faithfully then any other actor. Secondly was
Benedict Cumberbatch. I thought the reboot worked in the modern day,

(22:07):
and I thought Cumberbatch's portrayal was also very insightful. And
third's Basal Rathbone, who is the archtype of homes for everyone,
And of course the model on whom our graphic novel
is based. And you could shuffle those around at any time,
and I could agree to any one of them being

(22:28):
the best homes ever.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah, well, I think you can't go wrong with any
of them. And you know, it's interesting because over the
years we've noted that every generation seems to have its
Sherlock Holmes. There's so many people that we run into
in the Baker Streeter Regulars, of which we are both members,
by the way, got their start with Basil Rathbone. With

(22:55):
those maybe they didn't see them live in the theater
in the forties. Maybe they saw them in Saturday matinees
on television or whatnot, but that was kind of a
seminal moment. And of course in the nineteen eighties, as
you said, the Jeremy Bread series really brought new life
and faithfulness to the original character and the settings, the costumes, etc.

(23:16):
It was really well done. And then the reboot which
brought a whole new generation of fans to Sherlock Holmes
with Benedict Cumberbatch and Martin Freeman. So it's a nice
range there that you've got.

Speaker 4 (23:30):
I have a DVD set of Elementary, which is of course,
is the modern reboot that transposed to Sherlock to New
York and makes Lucy low Who's doctor watch and I've
watched a couple and they're highly entertaining, but you know,

(23:51):
they're missing it. In my opinion, they're just missing it.
It's an interpretation and homage and it's very well done
and they're highly entertaining, but to.

Speaker 6 (23:59):
Me, it's just not homes.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
Yeah, what do you you feel that you need that
Victorian surround and the gas lamps for sure.

Speaker 4 (24:07):
Like not necessarily because of the cumber Batch, right, But
but I do think we need an English accent at
the very and I don't like race swapping and sex swapping.
I think Doctor Watson should be a guy. I see
there's a new series on Netflix now called Doctor Watson,
and it's a black guy. You know, I'll give it

(24:29):
a shot. If it's got great writing, I'll stick with it.

Speaker 2 (24:33):
Well, that's a man. That's an interesting segue. A great
writing and characters, Because you know, you as a writer,
you've touched and written so many interesting characters. What do
you what's your thinking about Holmes as a character, as
a hero? I mean, do you can you relate Holmes,

(24:53):
you know, to some of the other work that you've done,
or some of the other huge characters that you've had
a chance to work on work with.

Speaker 4 (25:01):
Well, I can relate to Holmes personally. A lot of
people agree that he suffers from Asperger syndrome, which, as
you know, it interferes with a close emotional attachment to
other people, which is often compensated for in some other field.
And I think that that's true about Holmes. I don't

(25:23):
know if Conan Doyle was even aware that he was
doing that at the time. But Holmes learned to care
about other people through his special skill, which was deduction,
because he only came alive when he was working on
a case, and then he he came to care about
his clients, especially if they were sympathetic. And my wife says,

(25:49):
I have Asperger's and I suppose that I do to
a certain degree. I think a lot of writers do.

Speaker 2 (25:56):
Well. Yeah, I mean, you know, we've had an opportunity
to talk to a whole spectrum of people who have
written and been involved in things like Sherlock Holmes, and
you know who do you know deal with a different
whole range of neurological and other kinds of conditions.

Speaker 4 (26:18):
But just to say that, no, I don't think I
can't relate homes to any of my other characters, except
possibly the Badger, which is a character I created in
nineteen eighty two who's a multiple personality. But that's simply
a different psychological condition, vastly different from what Holmes has.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
It's interesting, have you have you encountered in your network
of fellow writers, you know, other people who have touched
Sherlock Holmes they thought about homes. The reason I ask
is that I know that in the past. You know,
you've mentioned people like Carl Barks, the illustrator, and phil Farmer,
Philip Jose Farmers influences on your own writing. And Philip

(27:08):
Jose Farmer did a pastiche I think the Adventure of
the Peerless peer about Sherlock Holmes. And I'm just curious
if you know, as part of your community is of
you know, you're sort of surrounded that there's been other
intersections with people who have done things on Sherlock Holmes.

Speaker 6 (27:29):
You bet.

Speaker 4 (27:30):
I have a friend here in town, and he's Ron
forty a and he's the publisher of Airship twenty seven,
which is one of the biggest pulp factories in the country.
And Ron has published a lot of Sherlock Holmes material,
most of which he's written.

Speaker 6 (27:47):
There's also Paul Bishop.

Speaker 4 (27:49):
Paul was a Los Angeles detective with the LAPD for
thirty years. He's a talented novelist and a huge Sherlock
Holmes fan. He's putting a book together now which consists
of essays on a number of Sherlock Holmes pastiches, which
is what they call a Sherlock Holmes novel not written

(28:10):
by Cody and Doyle. And I contributed an essay to it.
It was about the Holmes Dracula file, which is the
tone is perfect, but the emotional portrayal is way off
the charts for what people expect from Sherlock Holmes.

Speaker 6 (28:29):
It's a good book. I recommend it, but be prepared
to be shocked.

Speaker 1 (28:35):
So, Mike, I'm interested because your career has spanned both
traditional novels and graphic novels, and talk to us a
little bit about the difference in writing for each. It
seems to me that a graphic novel is almost like
a screenplay, But I'd be interested to hear your take

(28:58):
as someone who is a practitioner of it.

Speaker 4 (29:01):
Yeah. I always say that the difference between writing a
graphic novel and a novel is the difference between water
skiing and skiing down Mount Everest. But you know, one
of the bright spots in my life is I think
I keep getting better as a writer, so I look
forward to writing more. It was used to be I

(29:23):
was able to write two novels a year, and now
I think I can write three or four novels a year,
mostly because I have a friend who's pushing me to
write faster and faster. But a novel is completely different
animal because you can touch on so much more than
you can in a graphic novel. And that doesn't mean

(29:44):
a graphic novel is short change entertainment.

Speaker 6 (29:49):
It's not. It depends on the writing. The writing is
everything in.

Speaker 4 (29:52):
Any of this entertainment, in movies and TV shows, comics,
or novels, the writing is the key. You want to
grab the read by the throat and drag me into
the narrative to the exclusion of all else. And by
that I mean you want your reader to say, holy,
holy shit, what happens next? What happens next? And to
keep turning the pages until he's done. Uh. And that

(30:15):
takes a certain skill. You have to understand a story
to do that.

Speaker 6 (30:19):
But in a novel.

Speaker 4 (30:22):
There's so much more you can add to the milieu
or to the narrative voice. For instance, when I have
a character inter a scene, whether it's an established character
or a new character, I ask myself, what does he see?
What does he hear, what does he smell? What does
he feel? So that I can dress the scene and

(30:42):
make it realistic. Suspension of disbelief is key to all
these entertainments, and you want the reader to believe that
it's really happening.

Speaker 6 (30:52):
You want the.

Speaker 4 (30:52):
Reader to live the story and not even be aware
of the words, at least in a novel. In a
comic want to be you want him to be aware
of the words and the graphics because they produce a
different effect.

Speaker 6 (31:07):
Words are very important to comics.

Speaker 4 (31:09):
I don't believe in wordless comics, and I have a
bunch of them, and they take a short time to read,
and they're beautiful and yeah, it's a nice picture, but
you never remember them. It's the words in context. But
you can't use too many words.

Speaker 6 (31:23):
You have to.

Speaker 4 (31:24):
You have to duel those words out like gold coins.
And people that cover a page with one hundred words
in four caption boxes, they don't understand the medium. It's
the words in context that stick with you, and the
first time you hear it in context, if it's good writing,
it sticks with you. I think of Face Front, True

(31:45):
Believer is claw burn time in Dark Day and Brightest Light,
No Evil shall escape by sight. The first time those appeared,
they had a tremendous impact, so much so that they
keep resonate throughout comics, right down through the ages. Which
doesn't mean that you should write that you should be original.

(32:08):
You should strive for originality, uh in everything you write.
We're all unique human beings who we necessarily bring our
own life experience to what it.

Speaker 6 (32:16):
Is that we write.

Speaker 4 (32:18):
But even most most importantly in a comic or a
graphic novel, is you want the dialogue to sound like
real people talk. I can't say that often enough. And
that's one of the biggest failings in most comics is
that they you read it and you say, well, nobody
talks like this. This guy is just recycling old stan Lee,

(32:40):
and that's not how the how people talk.

Speaker 1 (32:42):
It was.

Speaker 4 (32:43):
It was great when stan Lee did it because it
was the first time we saw it, and he set
the tone, you know. And I'll give you an example
of that right now, because I have a collection of
here and I gotta I gotta just read you this
one dialogue he wrote his Doc Doom and I'm.

Speaker 6 (33:02):
Mister Fantastic or confronting.

Speaker 4 (33:04):
Each other, hang on, hang on, hang on, here we
go all right, and Doc Doom says, then turn and
stare in abject awe at Doom, the first the new
ruler of the world. And that's perfect for Doc Doom,

(33:25):
but it's also wrong for everybody else, and people are
still writing like that.

Speaker 2 (33:33):
That's a good man, It's a terrific example. So I'm
really curious, though, You're so eloquent about writing and about
the importance of characters talking as people really speak, and
your project Sherlock Holmes. Leviathan links Sherlock Holmes with Captain

(33:53):
Nemo and Jules Vern, and I'm curious. On the one hand,
character of Nemo is wonderful, but was there any baggage
for you?

Speaker 1 (34:03):
And looking at.

Speaker 2 (34:04):
Jules Vern, was Vern an important writer to you in
your past when you were.

Speaker 6 (34:09):
A kid, or absolutely.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
Talk a little bit about that. I mean, what did
because I also, you know, when I was a kid,
I read through Alexandre Dumont, all the Jules Vern and
all of that stuff.

Speaker 4 (34:23):
I began my long slog through classic science fiction as
a child, and I read everything I could get my
hands on. Clifford Simmeck, Robert Heinlein, Isaac Asimov.

Speaker 6 (34:40):
George Orwell H. G. Wills.

Speaker 4 (34:42):
I devoured them all, and of course Jules Vern is
right in there. I loved twenty Thousand Leagues under the Sea.
And one of the reasons I wrote this story was
because Sherlock Holmes and Jules Vern both exist in that
same time bubble of great Victorian characters whose lives overlapped.

Speaker 6 (35:03):
It's not a new idea. The League of.

Speaker 4 (35:06):
Extraordinary Gentlemen is an example of somebody else using that idea.
And of course philipose Farmer, as you pointed out, the
peerless peer and he also wrote Tarzan and Doc Savage,
only he called them Lord Tiger and Doc Caliban, and
he mixed them up with real characters like Sir Richard
Burton and Mark Twain, and he created the Wold Newton

(35:29):
universe where all these characters interact. And I admire that
Farmer is one of my favorite science fiction writers, and
he has inspired me, along with a handful of other writers,
probably more than anybody else. Although I'll read anything these days.
These days I mostly read crime fiction when I read fiction,

(35:51):
and I enjoyed very much, and I read a lot
of historical books.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
But what about the language I mean did is that?
The only reason I ask is that you know, when
my kids, you know, having them just sort of touch
on something, you know, written by Vern, I was always
dismayed to find it wasn't as immediately attractive to them

(36:17):
as it was to me.

Speaker 6 (36:19):
Yeah, that didn't bother me.

Speaker 4 (36:21):
Uh. And of course if you're going to write Slack Holmes,
you must follow Conan Doyle's style, which is the style
of Victorian language which she and it has certain conventions.
One is constant awareness of class differences. Another is circumlocution.

(36:44):
You never touch on on touchy subjects directly.

Speaker 6 (36:50):
You never say, well, he killed him with a butcher knife.

Speaker 4 (36:52):
You say the gentleman eliminated the fellow with kitchen cutlery
or something like. That's that's Victorian language. And if you
want to write Sherlock Holmes, you got to get into
that headframe and write it like that. Not necessarily Jules
vern he had a different style of talking, but it
was all nineteenth century which was not as frank and

(37:13):
vulgar as we talk today.

Speaker 2 (37:16):
Yeah, oh definitely not. Wow. Well, what about the illustrations,
I mean, did what went on in terms of thinking
through for Levia and you know, the look and the
feel and the characterization and the style. I mean, was
that something that you devoted some attention to or was
that just well, like.

Speaker 4 (37:35):
Very detailed instructions in my scripts, although they're not lengthy
at all, their spars I worked with Richard before he
did Private American, which I wrote to show people what
Punisher should be doing, and he wanted to do Sherlock.
And Richard Bonk is one of those very few artists
who's both fast and good. But what surprised me about

(37:56):
Sherlock was that Richard had been waiting his whole life
life to draw steampunk and he didn't even know it
until he started drawing it, and then he exploded and
you can see a hint of that in the video.
The video can be found at Barrencomics dot com. We're
very proud of our videos. Chris Brawley puts them together,

(38:17):
and Chris is a genius. He's a professional videographer. But
that gives you a good sample of the art style.
And rich you know, he just blew it out of
the park. When people see this book, they're going to
be stunned. So I write to my artist's strength. I
asked rich if he wanted to do Sherlock. He said yeah,

(38:40):
But we didn't realize that it would reveal this about him,
about his ability to draw steampunk. So I'm creating another
project for Richard which is going to play exit directly
to his strengths. Pat Broderick, the great artist who did
Bronze Star. That came about because I said, Pat, what
do you want to do draw? And he said, I

(39:01):
want to draw a supernatural Western, and that's how Bronze
Starr came about. I can write on virtually any subject
if I can find a way into it as a
story writer, and I usually can.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
Now that's fantastic. So this collaboration between between writer and illustrator.
I mean, obviously you mentioned that you have your instructions
that you have kind of laid out. But as you're
working with Richard, is there anything that he gives back

(39:42):
to you that makes you rethink how you've written it
or what a scene might entail.

Speaker 4 (39:48):
Richard is one of the most faithful artists I've ever
worked with. He never mentions any problem with the script
because by the time I give him the script, I've
been over at forty five times for every aspect. I
make sure that the dialogue sounds natural, that the portrayals

(40:11):
are consistent. It just wasn't always Thus, I mean, there
are books I wrote back in the eighties that I
would just soon clawback out of the market. It took
me a long time to write a novel because I'm
a slow learner. When I get it, I get it.
And that's informed my graphic novel writing as well. And
I'm pretty happy with my output. For my output for

(40:33):
the past twenty years, I don't let anything out of
the house unless I think it's a home run. And
I've refined my writing to a degree where it snaps
and pops on every page, and by that I mean
it holds your interests. There's something there in every page,
in every panel that furthers the story and does it

(40:55):
in an interesting way, which is what I think that
most people.

Speaker 6 (40:59):
Should be doing, who write fiction for a living.

Speaker 1 (41:03):
From your mouth to God's Ears. So this project is crowdfunded.
It's you can find it on barrencomics dot com, also
on Indiego, gofundmicomic dot com, and Kickstarter. What's your experience
been with crowdfunding before?

Speaker 4 (41:22):
Well, sometimes you hit the jackpot and sometimes you don't.
We hit the jackpot with Thin Blue Line a couple
of years ago, and the reason is when I announced
a graphic novel about two police officers trying to survive
the night in a riot torn city. And that's all
I said, and everybody knew what it was. They all

(41:46):
knew it was inspired by the riots of twenty twenty.
The left attacked, calling me a racist, homophote everything under
the sun, what they usually do, and somehow Fox News
got hold of that. They had me on their morning show,
and so that graphic novel went through the roof. The

(42:07):
same thing happened when I announced Private American because I
was disgusted with what Punisher had done with the Marvel
I excuse me, with what Marvel had done with Punisher.
They dragged him through the mud. They're embarrassed by him,
they humiliated him, they cocked in, they did everything but

(42:29):
just outright cancel him and completely remove him from their roster.
Because the people who are in charge of Marvel now
are not interested in entertainment. They're no longer in the
entertainment business. I don't know what business they're in. But
that's true not only of Marvel, but of so many

(42:50):
film studios too, like Disney, for example. Their films don't
seem to be entertaining or designed entertained.

Speaker 6 (42:57):
In my mind.

Speaker 4 (42:58):
They seemed designed to quote raise awareness unquote about one
social problem after another. And that's fine if you can
work that into the story.

Speaker 6 (43:08):
It can be the stuff of a vital drama.

Speaker 4 (43:10):
Just look at the grapes of wrath and to kill
a mockingbird. That's how you do it, because you care
about the characters first and foremost.

Speaker 6 (43:18):
But nobody cares about these characters.

Speaker 4 (43:21):
So I announced that Private America, if I were writing,
and I did, is on the southern border trying to
stem the flow of human traffickers, drug smugglers, and terrorists
that were pouring across the southern border unchecked and then
being flown in the dead of night to cities all
over the country that weren't even informed that they were coming.

(43:43):
As soon as that came out, a far left hate
site called The Daily Coast ran an article headline, Punisher
creator Mike Barron releases another racist AF comic book. And now,
first of all, I didn't create the Punisher, Jerry Conway did.
And secondly, the person wrote this, a purple haired Herodin,

(44:05):
has never read anything I've written, and that was evident
by her description of the book because the book hadn't
been released yet. So when it was finally done and lettered,
we contacted the Daily cost and said, would you like
to see the book? And the response is, well, we
can't stop you. So we sent them a link to

(44:26):
the book online. That was three years ago and as
of today they have not.

Speaker 6 (44:31):
Looked at it.

Speaker 1 (44:33):
Well, we'll give people something to look at. With regard
to Sherlock Holmes Leviathan, you know, wonderful illustrations by Richard
and some great panels by you, and as you say,
the video, the promotional video there, it's really worth checking out.
And you know, speaking of Disney, Mike, I couldn't help

(44:54):
but notice it looks like rich hughes the Disney version
of the Nautilus as his inspiration. And I just I
love that because it is it is so classically steampunk
and it immediately draws to mind, uh you know, people's
visualization of what the submarine looked like.

Speaker 4 (45:14):
Yeah, and I have that movie. I probably get around
to it in the next couple of weeks and watch
it again.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
That's a great point throwback. Yeah, so what's what's so?

Speaker 2 (45:24):
What's next? Mike? I mean, you know you're you're writing
more novels now you think you're writing is getting better
and better. Sherlock Holmes Leviathan is terrific. I mean, what
are you thinking about for the future more, Sherlock Holmes.

Speaker 4 (45:38):
Well, uh, you know it's it's struggling, frankly, and the
reason is that I should have known that comic book
fans have a very parochial target area. They want superheroes,
science fiction, horror and tits and homes has none of

(46:01):
those still offer except for little science fiction. It's outside
their parameters. It says this, neither Fish nor Fowl, well
Sherlock Holmes, And of course it surprised me. There are
a lot of people that aren't into homes, and a
lot of them are in the comic community. I'm working
on a couple of Nexus graphic novels with some world
class artists. I wish I could tell you they are,

(46:23):
but you're going to be excited when you learn about them.
Pat Broderick is well into the second issue of Braunze
Star and his art is just mind blowing. It's just
mind blowing for an artist of anyone's age, but at
his age, to keep getting better and better and to
do the greatest work of his career. It's just astonishing.

(46:46):
And Pat's astonished it himself.

Speaker 1 (46:48):
That's fantastic. Well, we will have links to Barrencomics dot
com and all the places you can support this project,
as well as to some of the items that we
mentioned in Mike's bio and the introduction there. Mike Barron,
thank you so much for telling your story and joining

(47:09):
us here on I hear of Sherlock everywhere.

Speaker 7 (47:11):
Thanks guys, Hey, thank you.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
You know, you never know what you're going to find
when you talk to highly creative people. And the thing
that sticks with me from talking to Mike is that
he's so articulate about storytelling and writing and about novels
and about engaging readers. And his writing is engaging and

(47:46):
thought provoking, and he is a significant voice, you know.
And he's really a craftsman at what he does. And
it's always interesting to talk to creative people. You never
know where conversation is going to go.

Speaker 1 (48:01):
Yeah, and I was particularly taken by the way he
described how it is writing for graphic novels versus traditional
novels and the importance of self editing, you know. And look,
I've had more than enough experience in this area, first

(48:22):
with one hundred and forty characters that Twitter gave us
and various media platforms. You learn to be economical with
your words, Unlike here, you need to be concise, you
need to draw people's attention, and you need to accomplish

(48:42):
something in a very short period of time or a
small bit of space. And that it takes practice, right,
and it is absolutely one that you improve at over time.
But you can tell who the experts are versus who
the novices are in that kind of practice, and it

(49:05):
really makes a difference when it finally hits the printed page.
It's a chance of listening with your correspondent, Madeline Kimonez.

Speaker 5 (49:18):
Hello, everyone, I'm Madeline Kenyonis and today I'm here to
talk about the podcast focused on the Granadi TV series. No,
not that one. As it turns out, the podcast that
you're probably thinking of wasn't the first to cover the
Granada series That Honor goes to a Study in Granada

(49:39):
started in twenty eighteen by Mike Nol and Jackson Efflyn.
Mike is a Sherlokian and Jackson is just starting to
get into both the show and the canon for the
sake of the podcast. It's not the first Scherlokian podcast
to have this dynamic of one host who knows more
than the other, but that kind of dynamics certainly has

(49:59):
its own entertainment value, especially if you, the listener, also
know more than one of the hosts. It's like sharing
a book or a movie with a friend and waiting
for them to react to certain parts. The hosts would
eventually cover a handful of other adaptations on the side,
and ultimately stop short of covering the entire Granada production,

(50:21):
stopping with the disappearance of Lady Francis Carfax in December
twenty twenty two, which is a shame because this was
a light, fun listen and most episodes aren't even an
hour long, so they're pretty easy to get through. If
you want to give it a try, I recommend the
first two episodes, which cover a scandal in Bohemia and

(50:42):
the Dancing Men. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going
to go rewatch the book carbone cul for the millionth time.
Happy holidays, everybody.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
Yeah, that's one of the lovely traditions I think we
Sherlockians have around this time of the year. Of course,
December twenty seventh is officially Blue Carbuncle Day, but the
entire holiday season seems an appropriate time to haul that out.
You know that I reread The Blue Carbuncle every year.

(51:15):
I also reread Charles Dickens a Christmas Carol every year,
just as part of that tradition of getting in the
holiday spirit and the literary spirit of the time.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
Oh, I like that very much. Excellent, very appropriate.

Speaker 8 (51:30):
Yeah, okay, that means it is everyone's favorite quiz show
coming up here in the Sherilockian world, of.

Speaker 1 (51:44):
Course, it's canonical couplet where we give you two lines
of poetry, we test your wits as we ask you
to identify which Sherlock Holmes story it is that we're
talking about. If you recall around these parts the last
we gave you this clue of a great evil, Holmes

(52:07):
unearthed the root. The game was undeniably a foot bert.
I will leave this one to you. Do you know
which story it is that we are talking.

Speaker 2 (52:20):
About, Yes, of course. It's a wonderful case. Holmes of course,
comes back from travels in France associated with another case,
with a recipe that he gives to missus Hudson, but
it doesn't turn out very well. It's the story about
Missus Hudson's damaged crem caramel. Watson called it the Crooked Flan.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Surely you can't be serious.

Speaker 3 (52:45):
I am serious, and don't call me. Surely you knew.

Speaker 1 (52:48):
I knew we'd come back to Shirley at some point.

Speaker 2 (52:51):
I knew we'd get that in there.

Speaker 1 (52:53):
The crooked flan. Wow. No, no, no, no, what, No,
you're not I'm the man in the grave flan null suit. Now,
Eric Deckers is going to help us out here. He's
a little gun shy after having been off the last
two times, and he says, I'm hesitant to say that

(53:14):
I've solved it, since I seem to have a history
of providing the right answer to the wrong question. But
I'll risk it and say that. This is the story
of the time that Holmes went undercover to work as
an administrative assistant at a fashion magazine whose editor was
killed with a deadly poison. It's the adventure of the

(53:35):
Devil's Foot wears Prada, except the Prada brand wasn't created
until nineteen thirteen, so it's probably more likely the adventure
of the Devil's Foot. But given my luck, it's a
scandal in Bohemia. Way to cover your bases there, Eric, No, yes,

(53:58):
it was the Devil's Foot, so thank you for that.
We did throw a few people off. Interestingly enough, who
guessed the adventure of the abbey Grange, which is where
that phrase was uttered. But of course the foot we
were looking of at was the devil's kind. So well,

(54:20):
let's see among the people who did respond correctly who
we will be picking to win the prize. So give
the prize wheel here a big spear, watching it go
around and land on number what is that forty six?

(54:44):
Forty six? Okay, and that looks like it is Joshua
Harvey who dant Harvey, And Josh writes interestingly enough, you
said love to hear more about my kids and my
week listen of Sherlock and Co. Which has become a
tradition to and from taekwondo. That's nice. I know you're

(55:08):
sharing that show with your kids. Josh great, and I
would imagine he doesn't subject his kids to this show.
That would be too cruel. But yes, Josh, we have
something for you from the I hose Walts, and I
should mention I don't know that he's gotten enough credit

(55:30):
for it, but Josh is the maestro behind the theme
to Madeline Kennonez's a Chance of Listening segment. That little
jingle that you hear there was written for that program,
specifically by Josh oh nice so and if you'd liked

(55:50):
if you can't get enough of Josh Harvey, because we can't.
He was actually on episode two fifty nine Sketches of Science,
where he talked with about his creative process behind creating
musical themes for a lot of these science societies that
were having zoom meetings during the pandemic, so they all
had their little musical signature there. So well, congratulations to you, Josh,

(56:16):
and now for the clue for the next canonical couplet.
Here we go. The words were said, and help came
rather late, and listen to that Preacher's Billingsgate. If you

(56:36):
know the answer to this episode's canonical couplet, put it
in an email addressed to comment and I hear at
Sherlock dot com with canonical couplet in the subject line.
If you are correct and your name is chosen at random,
you will win a prize. Good luck, and that prize
will be a copy of Mike Brethon Mike Baron's Sherlock

(57:00):
Holmes Leviathan, Well, yeah, it should be fun. Well, we
have one more show before the end of the season,
Bird Ray be wrapping it up rather quickly, and then
we rush into January. I think our first January episode

(57:23):
of season nineteen will drop while we are at the
BSI weekend, so that should be interesting, lots of fun,
and we will welcome seeing any of our listeners during
the BSI weekend. We certainly welcome you to come up
and buy us a drink.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
Yes, if you come up to me and mutter the
secret word IHO is in my ear, I will ask
Scott to buy you.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
A drink, and I will have conveniently forgotten my wallet upstairs.
Oh dear, well, well, whatever it is, we would delight
in seeing you and chatting with you and hearing your feedback,
maybe your ideas for what's to come. But I know
we're looking forward to a great season ahead and wishing

(58:13):
you all of the best this holiday season, whether you
celebrate Hanukah, Christmas, Festivus, or whatever it happens to be,
we wish you all the best, the compliments of the season,
and until next time. This is the holiday cheerful. Scott
Monty and.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
I'm full of egnag, I'm Bert.

Speaker 1 (58:34):
Wolder, and together we say the games of foot, But.

Speaker 9 (58:50):
The games of the foot, you know, I'm afraid that
the pleasure to this conversation I'm neglecting in business of
importance which awaits me.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
Thank you for listening. Please be sure to join us
again for the next episode of I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere,
the first podcast dedicated to Sherlock Holmes.

Speaker 1 (59:19):
Goodbye and good luck, and believe me to be my
dear FEMA. That is sincely yours, Shelock Holmes

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Episode 301: Sherlock Holmes: Leviathan

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