January 15, 2025 • 59 mins
“the rapidity and noiselessness of a serpent” [STUD] Sherlock Holmes, Dr. Watson, and Bonnie MacBird are back! In the sixth book in her series, Bonnie once again finds firm footing in London as Sherlock Holmes investigates a strange mystery involving a disfigured body, Windsor Castle, and some rather unpleasant reptilian encounters.We talk with Bonnie about the creative process, including the expert advice she received from two knights, her extensive research, and — wait for it — smoke enemas. No, we're not joking. Discover why The Times called this "a treat for all Sherlockians."We've moved the Sherlockian News to an exclusive bonus track for supporters (watch for that to drop), and added a new segment: "The Learned Societies," all about activities going on in in Sherlockian groups.Of course, Madeline Quiñones is back with another installment of "A Chance of Listening," her review of Sherlockian podcasts. And wind up the year with another Canonical Couplet quiz for you to test your Sherlockian knowledge. The winner, chosen at random from all correct answers, will receive something from the IHOSE vaults. Send your answer to comment @ ihearofsherlock .com by January 14, 2025 at 11:59 a.m. EST. All listeners are eligible to play.If you become a supporter of the show, not only will you help to ensure we can keep doing what we do, covering file hosting costs, production, and transcription services, but we have thank-you gifts at certain tiers and ad-free versions of the episodes for all patrons.
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Download [Save As] | File size: 57.3 MB, 59:21
Listen to I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere anywhere you get podcasts
Leave I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and Spotify; listen to us wherever you listen to podcasts.
Sponsors
- Exclusive for IHOSE listeners from MX Publishing: codes for 5 free audio books.
Would you care to advertise with us? You can find more information here. Let's chat!
Links
- The Serpent Under (Amazon | Bookshop.org)
- Bonnie MacBird's website
- Links mentioned in "The Learned Societies"
- Links mentioned in "A Chance of Listening"
- The Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes Podcast
- Episode 203: The Jeremy Brett Sherlock Holmes Podcast
- Episode 284: BrettCon
- Previous Episodes:
- Episode 83: Art in the Blood <
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Support for I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere comes from MX Publishing,
with the largest catalog of new Sherlock Holmes books in
the world. New novels, biographies, graphic novels, and short story
collections about Sherlock Holmes find them at MS publishing dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And listeners like you who support us on Patreon or
substack sign up for exclusive benefits at Patreon dot com,
slash I Hear of Sherlock or I Hear of Sherlock
dot Substack dot com.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere, Episode three hundred and three,
The Serpent under I Head.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Of shelocke it very well, since you became a strumming man.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
In a world where it's always eighteen ninety five. It's
I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere. A podcast for devotees of
mister Sherlock Holmes, the world's first unofficial consulting detective.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I've Heard of you before, Holmes, The Medland Holmes, The
Busybody Homes, the stockland Yard, Jacket Office.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
The Game's afoot As we interview authors, editors, creators, and
other prominent Sherlockians on various aspects of the great detective.
In popular culture.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
As we go to press, sensational developments have been reported.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
So join your hosts Scott Monty and Burt Walder as
they talk about what's new in the world of Sherlock Holmes.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
A time.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I'm Mill Curtis. This is I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Now Here are your hosts, Scott Marty and Bert Walder.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Hello, and welcome to I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere, the
first podcast for Sherlock Holmests Where It's always eighteen ninety five.
I'm Scott Monty, I'm Bert Wilder and Bert are you
feeling over or under today?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Over or under? The over under? That's sort of like
I mean, in the old days, you know, you'd go
to a Turkish bath, but here in America it's just
evolved to sporting pools.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I like that. I like that. Well, you, to me
will always be over the oak. You are the tops.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Over the olk, and I'm feeling under the table. Where
was the reverend under the table?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Under the table? I remember that one. Well, let's not
get into that. We are looking forward to a wonderful
conversation with author Bonnie mcbird today. Bonnie is well, I'll
give you her bio in just a little bit. But
she has her sixth book out in her series, her
pastiches of Holmes and Watson the Serpent under so it
(02:57):
should be a wonderful conversation with her. And well, if
you haven't picked up the book yet, here's your chance
to get up to speed on things and to join
us in this conversation. And of course we ask that
you join us on Patreon or substack, whatever you happen
to choose, that is fine with us. You can go
to Patreon dot com, slash I Hear of Sherlock, or
(03:20):
I Hear of Sherlock dot substack dot com, and of
course we have all of these links that I Hear
of Sherlock dot com and in the show notes for
wherever you happen to listen to us. We have a
growing community in each of those areas, and we have
features for our paying subscribers, features that include ad free episodes,
(03:45):
features that include bonus content, additional conversation that you won't
hear anywhere else, or additional pieces of media that we
have for you to check out. And of course, starting
here in season nineteen, we are going to be running
Sherlockian News just for our Patreon and substack supporters. So
(04:08):
if that isn't enough of an incentive to get you
to support us, I don't know what is as little
as a dollar a month you can become a supporter,
So thank you in advance, Welbert. One of the things
that we are starting this time around is a snapshot
(04:31):
of what's going on with Sherlockian societies. We thought that
since we remove the news feature, that a look at
Shrilocian societies might be in order, And quite frankly, I
think it's important to look at what's going on at
the local level because this is where people get involved,
and there are all kinds of science societies really all
(04:54):
over the world that do things differently. They have fun
with what they've done, and we've talked about how to
get involved with sherlock in societies or what Sherlockian societies
are like in the past. I think episode one hundred
and ten has a feature on that, and I've been
(05:15):
seeing a lot of chatter online about people who are
curious about this or simply are not informed, they have
no idea that this stuff is going on. I thought
that I hear of Sherlock everywhere. Since we are supposed
to hear of Sherlock everywhere would provide a great service
to our listeners by featuring activities that are ongoing and
(05:40):
perhaps upcoming with Sherlockian science.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Well, it's a great idea, and you know, look at
it's amazing what goes on. And in fact, my personal
experience too is you can learn a lot about things
that are going on in your own neighborhood that you
have no idea are happening. So, for example, when I
looked at the Scion meetings that are happening in January,
(06:10):
I was very surprised to find in my own state,
and we have a nicely active group that meets twice
a year called the Redheaded League of Jersey. But I
saw on the list that towards the end of January
in Middlesex, New Jersey, there's a group I didn't know
existed that is meeting where my contact is my friend,
(06:33):
our friend, Paul Hartnett. So you can learn a lot
there and I'm looking forward to those discussions.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Oh that's wonderful. And just so folks know, we are
drawing our inspiration from two links, primarily the Sherlockian Calendar,
which is heroically established upkept and updated by Ron Fish
that is at Sherlockianclendar dot com, and by the geographical
(07:03):
listing of Sherlockian Societies, which is done as part of
a Google map, that is up kept by Mike mcswiggan,
and we have that via the Beacon Society website. We'll
have links to both of those in the show notes,
so you can go and check them whenever you want.
But we will be highlighting Scion activities from episode to episode.
(07:27):
This is kind of the way the Baker Street Journal
used to feature Scion reports, and we don't want to
be as pedantic as that and formulaic as that, but
we thought every two weeks here in our episodes, we'd
call out some interesting activities, whether they were upcoming or
whether they recently happened. And folks, if you are part
of a scion part well not even a scien, a
(07:50):
Sherlockian society. Scion means that you've officially been recognized by
the Baker Street Journal. It's really just a matter of paperwork,
anything very formal at all. But just know when we
say scion or society, we're using them interchangeably. But if
you are part of a Sherlockian Society, and you've had
(08:11):
an activity that you'd like to report on, or you
have an activity coming up that you would like us
to share, please.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Let us know.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
This is a great format for us to reach out
to the community and make more of a community feature
here on I hear of Sherlock everywhere.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, and we're interested too in all kinds of meetings.
You know, many of the meetings that go on today
are virtual, and so just looking at the January calendar,
I see the Chicago group the South Downers as a
virtual meeting on the fifteenth, which, as you're listening to
this you've missed, unfortunately. But the Montague Street Incargibles have
(08:49):
Dangling Prussian pub Night virtual meeting on the seventeenth, and
Norwegian Explorers have the Study Group on the eighteenth of January.
So there's just a lot going on. In another virtual meeting,
the Sound of the Baskervilles on the nineteenth, and then
some formal meetings later in the month, Watson's Tin Box,
(09:09):
the Middlesex Constabulary in Middlesex, New Jersey, the Scotland Yards,
the Ribston Pippens meet in Royal Oak, Michigan on the
twenty fifth of January Bootmakers of Toronto of a virtual meeting,
and when Williamsburg the Sherlock Holmes Birthday celebration by the
Dog Irregulars, and then the Scourers a virtual meeting of
the Scours and Molly McGuire's later in the month on
(09:32):
the twenty sixth, plenty going on.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
That is really encouraging, and typically January is a busy
month for Sherlock ends, being that it is the month
in which we celebrate Sherlock Holmes's birthday. And I would
be remiss if I didn't point out Eric Deckers, our
very own Eric Deckers from Canonical Couplet Fame has contributed
an article on I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere refuting the
(09:58):
fact the fact that Sherlock Holmes' birthday is on January sixth. No, no, no,
Eric says it is not January sixth. He did the
math and figured it out. When is it. Well, we'll
leave that for Eric to explain. We'll have a link
to that in the show notes. And by the way,
(10:19):
Eric has written me privately and is interested in forming
a Sherlockian society in the Orlando, Florida area and if
there are any Floridian Sherlockians who would like to join
Eric in that well, drop us a note and we'll
make sure you get connected. Since you are a listener
(10:48):
of I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere, we can be fairly
certain that you enjoy audio. And if you enjoy audio
as it relates to Sherlock Holmes, then guess what you
are in life. Our friends at MX Publishing have over
three hundred and ninety books that are available on Audible
(11:09):
as part of the MX Publishing platform, and we here
at I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere have a code to
share with you that you can claim four five free
audio books. All you have to do is follow the
link in the show notes under our sponsorship section. Click
(11:31):
on that link and it'll take you to a form
that you can fill out to claim your five titles.
You can look through the full list of Audible titles
from MX Publishing so you can see what you are getting.
There are titles there like The Selected Cases of Doctor
Watson by Martin Daly narrated by Kevin Green, The Further
Memoirs of Sherlock Holmes by Caden Cooper Miles narrated by
(11:55):
Luke Barton, who you may remember, appeared here on an
episode of I Hear Sherlock Everywhere and The Recollections of
Sherlock Holmes by Arthur Hall narrated by Michael Langan. Again,
there are over three hundred and ninety titles to choose from.
Put in the five that you like in that form
and you will get an email describing what you need
(12:17):
to do to claim your free codes. We hope you
appreciate this free offer from MX Publishing, our longtime sponsor
and friend of the program. Be sure to visit their
entire website at MX publishing dot com. Bonnie mcbird is
(12:47):
best known as the author of an ongoing best selling
series of Sherlock Holmes Adventures for HarperCollins. She received her
BA in Music and MA in Film from Stanford University
and worked in development at Universal Studios, where she became
a story editor for feature films. She left to write
the movie Tron, then sold numerous other screenplays to various
(13:09):
studios and indies. Her own production company, Creative License, later
won three Emmys and eleven Cynic gold Eagles for creative
documentary and scripted work. Bonnie taught screenwriting for ten years
at UCLA extension, numbering among her students several now famous
(13:30):
producers and writers. After thirty years in the entertainment business
in Los Angeles, she now lives in London with her husband,
computer scientist Alan Kay, where she writes, acts, paints, sings,
an a choir, and volunteers for the Crime Writers Association and
the Sherlock Holmes Society of London. Bonnie received her investiture
(13:53):
art in the Blood in the Baker Street Irregulars in
twenty seventeen. Bonnie mcbird, welcome back to I hear of
Sherlock everywhere.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Well, it's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Now this is your fourth time we have. We ought
to put together an exclusive club of multiple appearing I
hear of Sherlock everywhere. Yes, you are among them, and
it's great to have you back.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Could we could we afford the club jacket or sweater
if we did that, like for Saturday Night Live?
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Right? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Well we got to get.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Swag, yeah, yeah, definitely like that.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I'm a Fordy regular. If you're going to get a
giant me too, that's perfect. We'll get to then.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Wow, this is the sixth book in your series, and Bonny,
I need to ask you straight away are these sequential
for anyone who hasn't read your books before? Are these sequential?
Do they need to be read in publication order?
Speaker 3 (14:54):
No, they actually don't have to be read in order
at all. Their standalones. I mean they sometimes they'll refer
to something, but you don't need to know it. You
don't need to know anything that has happened before. I
placed them specifically in time, and they jump around a
little bit, but so no, they're standalones. And I do
have a couple of continuing characters. But like I said,
(15:16):
each time I bring them in again, I remind the
reader in case they didn't see the first time they appeared.
So no, you don't have to read them in any order.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Well that's helpful. I mean, looks Arthur Conan Doyle forgot
that he brought Moriarty in before, and we were reintroduced
to him in the Valley of Fear. So yeah, well
I think there's.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
A reason for doing that, because you know, you don't
know that the reader has necessarily read that one before,
you know. But I was trying to introduce them in
a way that works for both people who know who
it is, but also maybe fraud or people who just
haven't met that character, but keep that very short intest,
but that my continuing characters are Hefi, Heffy, O'Malley, Hefsbi,
(16:02):
O'Malley and then this character name is Jean v DC,
although he's not in this one, but Hefi is.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Really has your process changed as you've written these books?
I noticed that. I mean, here, it seems to me
the story now is so expansive. It may be the
most expansive of the stories that you've done so far,
and you've structured it in quite a beautifully beautifully structured
I mean, it's a great book because you can just
go in and read, you know, a chapter, but you're
(16:31):
you've got the story organized in seven parts. So as
you as you think about and create these things, has
your own process changed or you.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Know, it's changed a little bit. But actually, all of
the all all of the books are have more than
one mystery going on. There's usually like one main one.
Uh oh are you still there?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yes, because my screen went somewhere else and I've lost
you on the screen. Hold on, okay, there you're back. Yeah.
So so they all have like three mysteries, usually convolving,
but there's one a story you know. So, uh so
my process has it hasn't changed, but I guess it's
(17:15):
evolved and kind of firmed up over the seven over
the seven books. So people ask me do I pre
plot or do I outline? And no, I don't. You know,
I've attended a lot of mystery writing conferences, and you'd
think that people that write mysteries would be plotters, you know,
they'd be planning these out with maps, and some people do,
(17:36):
but a larger majority of mystery writers don't do that,
and I'm one of those. So there's something called pantsying,
which I'm sure you've heard of, flying by the seat
of your pants. Then there was you don't pre outline, however,
I do start with some really specific things like I
know the a crime, the big you know, juicy crime,
(17:57):
I know who did it, I knew how they did it,
and I know why they did it. And then I
pick a place or an area, you know, location or locations,
and then I pick a theme at a time of year.
And then I go back to the canon and I
go I use there's a million chronologies, of course, I
(18:19):
think I use less as compilation one and try to
place like where so it doesn't conflict with canon, because
one of my one of my lines in the sand
about these books is I don't want to conflict with
anything in canon. You know, say something that he wouldn't say,
or you know, or or just just you know, have
(18:40):
something that contradicts something in canon. So I try to
try to be careful about that. So I try to
place the thing in time, and then I just start writing.
And however, I as I'm writing along, I just have
an instinctive knowledge when this chapter is done. I write
fairly short chapters. And I think all of my structuring
(19:03):
thinking is from screenwriting, because I not only was I
screenwriter for about eight years, but I was a story
editor at Universal Studios in feature films for four years.
So I read countless screenplays and I worked and I
gave notes on all of these, and I've got sort
of ingrained into me the long form storytelling structure that
(19:25):
underlies most good movies. So a scene is a scene,
you know, and it needs to fly along. And that's
a chapter for my books.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah. Well, And I think one thing that is compelling
about your writing, Bonnie, is that from chapter to chapter,
we find ourselves being drawn along in the story, which
I would imagine is your intention that we get to
the end of one chapter. We can't. I want you
to put it down in the water exactly, but we
(19:56):
can't wait to see what's happening next. So, you know,
and as we find ourselves in the opening of The
Serpent under I think it's a time frame, a date
that will resonate with Sherlockeans because we find ourselves a
late winter early spring of eighteen ninety one, that consequential year,
(20:19):
we only have a few months left of Sherlock Holmes
in London until he heads off to Switzerland with Watson.
So it's a really compelling time time frame in which
defined ourselves with the characters.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Yeah, and they know each other quite well at this point,
Holmes and Watson. You know, I like, I've generally set
them in the eighteen eighties and early eighteen ninety but
because I like the I like thinking of them as
young men in their thirties.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
You know, active, spry.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Yeah, they're very active men of action. I'm madly in
love with them. Also, well, that's helpful.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
That's helpful because it shows that you, you know, you
care a great deal about these characters. I think you're
faithful once again, and so inevitably what we I think,
(22:22):
what we think of when we see the serpent under
as a title, when we see the cover of the
book with the snakeskin, obviously Sherlockeans are going to think
of the Speckled Band, and Bert and I both members
of the Speckled Band of Boston, so it's deep within
our hearts. But tell us a little bit, because I
know there's some professional help that you got with respect
(22:46):
to writing about snakes and whatnot, But talk a little
bit about your your inspiration and how you got well
informed in this area.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Sure, well, the initial inspiration was the notion of snakes
as treacherous. So the quote from Lady m is, uh,
seem like the innocent flower, but be the serpent under it,
And that's from Shakespeare. So that was the That was
(23:16):
the initial kind of thematic statements. So it's sort of
about treachery became the kind of theme. But then I
also wanted actual snakes in it, and so yes, I
always do research, usually like on the spot or on
location or with people who are experts and so forth,
(23:37):
you know what. So, for example, in the three locks
lock locks we're part were one of the locks that
was referring to, and I went to the National Lock Museum,
which is in Rugby, England, and you know, so I
try to find experts in their fields. And this time,
I of course started online. As I started this as
(23:59):
a pandemic, were still in lockdown, and I started looking
at snakes and seeing videos of snakes, and I had
questions like do they make noise? And how do you know?
Et cetera. Lots of questions and I found an expert
(24:21):
online and I'm corresponding with him and he goes, no, no,
the person you need to talk to is Professor Sir
David Worrell. It's like Sir David. Yes, he's a knighted
herpetologist from Oxford. So I wrote to this man, quite
intimidated before I've even contacted him, and I was like, yeah,
with this very polite, tended letter explaining what I was doing.
(24:43):
And I got this lovely response from this man and
he became my consultant. And I went up to Oxford
and took him out to a nice lunch and he
handed me a little thumb drive and he said, here,
hold my notes. They're quite pedantic, but that's what we
do but he's so nice. I mean, he's funny. He's
(25:10):
a very very nice man. I took most of his notes,
not all of them, because and he also understood that
you have to take dramatic license when you write these things.
So so you know, Conan Doyle, they don't snakes don't
drink milk, they don't get trained to food like that.
In fact, you really can't train a snake. You can.
(25:31):
In fact, one of the things I learned at the
Fairmount about snake charmers for this book. And you know,
there's there's quite a bit of lore about it. But
when they come out of the basket, they're kind of
sleepy and so they're less likely to strike. And then
they're distracted by that that musical instrument, and you think
(25:51):
it's from the music, but now they can't really even
hear very well. It's the movement of the actual thing
that they're looking at. So in one point in the
in the story, in my story, they're they're confronted by
a snake, and so they know this, So homes is
some uh, some sort of deflective activity which I won't
(26:12):
go into because the wreck the scene. But but anyway,
there's a lot of interesting facts about snakes, and so
one other one is is that the venom is. Snakes
don't always inject venom. It's you never know. They can
inject a full on fatal dose in a single bite,
or they can inject just a little venom or none,
(26:33):
which is called a dry bite. And there's no way
to predict that. And there's not really a rhyme or
reason to it, because I don't know if they're thinking
of this, these snakes, but I mean, you know, the
little pea brains. But anyway, so it's a it's a
very interesting thing. Another one was somebody in an Amazon review,
(26:55):
but oh, this woman has Google at her fingertips and
doesn't she know that snakes don't make noises. I literally
said that, I'm like, what they do? I do have
Google at my fingertips and an expert, and I spent
a fair amount because i wanted it to make a noise.
Of course, I'm writing for dramatic effect. But when I
(27:16):
read that it they can very rarely though cobris can
make this sound, which is really scary. Let me do
they can't make that sound? So I had to make
that sound. Wow, you know, But the research is some
of the fun, the really fun stuff to.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Do your research comes comes through in the story, and
the research that you've done and how you animate it
and how you present it in the tale is really
thrilling to the reader. That now, without giving anything away
because we don't want to give away any spoilers, we've
just talked about snakes and they're the somewhat approaching the book.
(27:57):
Might well imagine that somewhere along the line, somebody gets
bitten by a snake. Well, the interesting thing also that
I saw as a reader here is the cure. Because typically,
you know, people say, oh, I'm going to suck that
venom mount and so on and so forth. Well, for
a variety of reasons, that doesn't happen here. But what
does happen here is Yeah, well I want you to
(28:20):
talk about that, But I also want you to talk
about the invention of the iron lung, which pops up here.
And it's another one of these points that really locates,
you know, the reader in the time and makes it
very authentic. I thought it was a lovely touch.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
I that is what's in there is true. Now I
stretched it slightly and placed it in a different location
than it actually was. But when I was doing my
research and understood that the venoms, the different venoms and
poisons of these reptiles behave differently in the body. But
the cobra venom acts by paralyzing the respiratory system, so
(28:58):
you basically just suffocate. You can't breathe and so and
it's pretty horrifying. Actually, uh oh am, I still here,
You're okay. My screen went play. So I thought, well,
I got very interested in artificial respiration for one of
the previous books, where I learned some really crazy stuff about.
(29:21):
First of all, artificial respiration was was performed differently in
homes this time than it is now. The person's face
down and all kinds of things. There's different ways to
do it. And just prior to the Victorian era, in
like the Georgian era, for some reason, they thought that
if you drowned, if you blew smoke up the person's ass,
(29:45):
if you eave them as smoke enema, they would revive.
This probably happened once or something, I don't know, so
this is true. They used to I'm diverting reading here
a little bit, but they used to have all along
the Thames, these stands, these boxes where there was the
equipment for a smoke enema, because you found a drowned person,
you could quickly give them that and they would revive.
(30:08):
This is true. I know you can't make this step
up anyway. That wasn't still the case at Holmes's time,
but nevertheless they did have a different theory about how
you gave artificial respiration.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Well, and so I can imagine how you would market that.
You know, if you were if you were by the seaside,
you know, you have a little placard and people would
come by and say does it really work? And you
would say, well, two things, sir. Imagine the look of
surprise on their face and it couldn't hurt, right.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
But I know it's just so crazy. But I also
love Victorian medicine. I have a bunch of books and
I go to the welcome library. It just fascinates me.
I think I'm somebody who wanted to be a doctor
at one time, and I just that whole all that
subject matter. So I started reading it, like what actually
happens with snake bite? And uh, and what was the
(31:03):
science at the time. Now, I actually came up with
the idea like, well, if your respiratory system is paralyzed
as like polia really and then I thought, well, I
wonder if they I wonder if the what was the
iron lung would work, and in fact it would and
then it but it wasn't really happening yet, but it
(31:24):
was the early prototypes of it were did exist at
that time. And then I came across some something somewhere
that a guy in India had used it once for
snake bite and it worked. So one guy did it once,
so I love it and because and then my expert professor,
(31:46):
Sir David Worrel, who was his his expertise was actually
in the medical end of this anyway, and I did
honestly take some liberties with what he gave me. And
he knows that. I mean, he was like, okay with that,
because it's it's drama, it's it's it's entertainment. But but
in fact, this isn't totally crazy idea at all. And
(32:09):
and he but then he corrected me like if okay,
if this is if he's turning blue with this, and
he you know, he talked about how much time a
person would have before they would be dead and so forth.
So he gave me some very good clues about that,
but it's actually based on it's it's it's extended reality,
(32:29):
but it is reality. So there were these there were
these early prototypes of the iron lung, and and they
were very they were different at the time too. So
the one was the thing you sat in, and then
later on they were they encompassed your whole body, and
then later on it was more like we then later
(32:49):
had like in the fifties and sixties, where it was
a long wrecktionle your head was out of it. But anyway,
they they I sort of got very interested in the
in the science of this, uh. And also there's also
a lot of lore around snags and that was really
interesting too. You know, of course they symbolize treachery and
(33:11):
you know, sneakiness and you know something dangerous underneath that
you don't see coming, and that kind of thing. So
I thought that had good thematic resonance and and would
be fun fun to explore. And I do mention this
happens after in the in the canonical chronology, it happens
after I think it happens after the Specs band. So
(33:36):
they're like, I thought we had enough snags.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Well, and you know, Bonnie, this is what I love
about your books is that you take such great care
in your research in the time and the place and
the you know, the the parallel universes that we're looking at,
and managed to weave them together in such a convincing
way that you know, as a reader, it doesn't feel forced,
(34:06):
it doesn't feel like it's unrealistic in any way. You know,
this is this is part real history and part hole
Mesian history. And I think that's just such a wonderful
talent you have here.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Well, thank you. It's you know, it's like we all
all almost Sherlock in, I mean sort of play the game.
This is my version of playing the game. And and
you know Conan Duyle obviously he had a lot of
real science in his in the works, and then he
also you know, got a little fantastic at times, and
you know, that's what you do as an entertainer. These
(34:40):
are entertainment. I just want to be aware of when
I'm going, you know, being fanciful and when I'm in.
But it's much more interesting to the reader if it's
really based in reality. You feel that you sense it,
and so I think it's and it's fun for me
to just especially I put some vic Torrian medicine and
(35:00):
every single one of my books because I like it.
I just find it so fascinating.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Well, and for Conan Doyle, he was he was living
his reality in real time. For you, you have to
go back and actually do the research and place yourself
in his shoes, so to speak.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Right, right, And yeah, it's interesting because you know, you
have to look up so much stuff. You know, he oops,
did I go away again? Okay? Oh man, this is
the computer is doing weird things. Let me just see
okay there. Yeah, So so for him, you know, I
have to look up everything like what the name of
(35:37):
this kind of hat, you know, and just like all
the little details and uh. And the readers are really
ready to nail you on that if you don't get
that right, Like so they're really looking to nail me
on being American. Now I live here, I'm really immersed
in the language. I of course read this stuff all
(35:59):
the time about it still makes some mistakes because you know,
I'm not really I'm not content Doyle, I'm not English.
The latest one was because at one time I said
a sidewalk instead of pavement. That you know, I've never
made that mistake again. But I have my books vetted
by several British readers, including Catherine Cook and others who
(36:22):
you know kind of I said, nail me. If you
find anything says American to you, tell me. So I've
run this by several people for that, just for that alone,
and I also run it by, like I said, science
advisors and experts on whatever I'm touching in on. And
(36:43):
but this one was, let's say, talked with someone instead
of talked to someone. Someone got upset about that. I
haven't actually looked at whether that they were justifiably upset.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
I'm not sure of it anyway, But this raises an
interesting question. Are are Sherlockians more critical? Are say that
your British audience is more critical? Where do you see
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Who was that person recently, but there's always somebody I think,
you know, I'm not sure. I'm not sure what it is,
but you know, Sherlockians generally are very you know, they
have high ideals, and they're they're discerning, they're intelligent across
(37:28):
the board, and you know they they don't want to
have the journey disrupted by some anachronism, you know. And
I don't want it to be disrupted by an anachronism
or Americanism or something. I really wanted to feel seamless,
that you're just in the story. You know, it's my
job to not leave any pebbles for you to slip on,
(37:49):
you know, yeah, just so you can enjoy the story.
And so that's what I try to do, is be
as time period correct as I can. But also I'm
writing for modern reader, don't forget that, and you know,
so then you're walking kind of a fine line with
attention span and vocabulary, et cetera. I never dumbed down
(38:10):
the vocabulary, though Victorian literature uses a lot more bigger
words than we do now typically typically not entirely, but
more typically and longer sentence structure and that kind of thing.
So I kind of I feel like I'm walking kind
(38:30):
of a fine line there. But I'm trying to write
a book that I would enjoy reading. And I love
Conan Doyle and I love Sherlock Home. So I'm trying
to give the experience that feels like that.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Well, clearly you've been successful, because we want to point
this out and you're welcome to blush. This is an
audio recording, so they'll need to worry about how it appears.
But you got a review in the Times, and of
course for our America and listeners, that's the London Times,
(39:02):
not the New York Times. If I met the New
York Times, I would have said the New York Times,
the London version of the Times, which is huge, and
allow me to read just an excerpt from it, if
you would. There's been no shortage of Sherlock Holmes pastiches
over the decades, but some of the finest new adventures
(39:23):
featuring Conan Doyle's great detective recently have been those written
by Bonnie mcbird. This one begins, as all good home
stories should, in the cozy confines of two two one
b Baker Street, Holmes and Watson her summoned to Windsor Castle,
where a young woman in the royal household has been
found murdered with mysterious tattoos carved into her face. They
(39:46):
are also drawn into the mystery surrounding the drowning of
the serpentine of one of the in the serpentine of
one of the Baker Street irregulars, The detective's band of
Street urchin intelligence gatherers, combining a convincing imitation of Watson's
narrative style with a labyrinthine plot for Holmes to navigate.
Mcbird's sixth excursion into Victorian London is a treat for
(40:10):
all Sherlockians. Wow, Bonnie, you must be so pleased with that.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
I'm astounded, really and very gratified, because I wasn't expecting that.
You know, you just put the thing out there and
you don't know, you don't know what people are going to.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Think or if I like it the six times a
charm I guess.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Well, I was. I was very pleasantly surprised by that review.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
What a wonderful legacy. And we should touch on this
as we are recording here in between the Sherlock Holmes
Society of London Dinner and the Baker Street Irregular's Annual Dinner.
You had your book launch in London. Yes, tell us
about how that went.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Oh, that was a load of fun. I have some
actor friends here, and I a couple of professional actors
that I've used to do readings for my books. There's
one particularly lovely Sherlock comes here named Jonathan Lebill, and
in fact the figure on the cover of the book
is him. He's also a dancer, and so I had
(41:20):
him costumed and we went to a local park and
I had actually I had him leaping and like you know,
confronting a snag basically, and he was I had all
kinds of action, seeing leaps and things. But the publishing
company picked picked the image that you see you see
on the front of the book. But anyway, that's him.
So he's a professional actor. And I have another young
(41:41):
man who's a wonderful actor too, who plays my Watson.
So I had them do a reading. And then this
last summer I did a play myself. I was in
a play and it was Romeo and Juliet and I
played the nurse. It's a fabulous role and it was
a great and I'm getting to the point here sort of,
(42:03):
but it's a great but the guy, young guy who directed,
that young Cambridge guy who was in Footlights, a very
funny man. Uh, he played the role for me. And
so the three of them read a scene from the
book from the Serpent under in in the book party
and it was they were they were delightful. You know,
(42:24):
actors really get the humor that you know, they are
trained to look for the emotional turns, and the conflict
and then the surprise. You know, they they they just
mine each scene for you know, the magic of it,
and they find it. And these these three were just
so delightful.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Well, that's wonderful to hear. Now, will you be doing
any Oh sorry, Bert, go ahead, No, no, Well.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
I'm just curious. There's so much going on in the book,
and I wanted to make sure our readers know how
faithful you are to Holmes and how you draw out
and add to what we know about him. And one
of the things you have in the book that it's
really lovely is his background and familiarity with horses. And
we know that, of course from Scandal in Bohemia when
(43:14):
he mess garades as a groom, but here you have him.
You know, there's a marvelous scene sort of early on
in the book that gives you yet another dimension to
his experiences and has him remind Watson that his ancestors
were country squires.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Country squires, yep, yep. It's also makes me think of
it a little bit about Alan, my husband, because he
grew up in a fairly rural area at least for
part of his childhood, and he I think he did
a summer during school working on a farm, which he
said which made him decide he would never want to
(43:51):
live in a rural area again. But nevertheless, having had
that experience of actually, you know, mocking into things and
really understanding how animals are treated, are taken care of,
and so forth, you know, he would he would have
known that. And like you said, in Uh, he posed
as a groom, and you know, he was clearly very
(44:14):
alert and aware of horses and how they behaved. And
I thought Jeremy Brett performed that beautifully in the Granada
series because I think he himself was also very familiar
with horses. Yeah, and I was an archer and all
these other things. But anyway, so so yes, that was
kind of fun because one of the things I love
about the character of Holmes is you keep finding that
(44:37):
he's an expert in this and then this and this
other thing and then this other thing, you know, and
because he's got these grand capabilities, and so that's kind
of the delight of the character. And Connadrill does do
that sometimes feels like a rabbit out of the hat, like, oh,
he can also do this, but you figure the man
reads everything and he remembers everything, and he's just very talented.
(45:02):
So the fact that he knows how to help in
the sort of horse emergency that appears in this book, yeah,
fits him. I think.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Yeah, and we should tell our listeners too that that there.
You've got some easter eggs, you know, throughout the story,
and one of the ones that I really enjoyed seeing,
there's a scene here involving some hypnosis. Oh, and you
have a I'm not going to explain what's going on,
but you have a reference there that if anyone has
seen any of the Universal films with Nigel Bruce, you know,
(45:35):
you would remember a scene about hypnosis. And you've got
a lovely little easter egg there about that.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
Well then there was Nick. You know Nick's in percent.
So yeah, I mean, and well, hypnosis was hugely popularized
right then anyway, and it was just a topic of
conversation both medically and also you know kind of that's
a parlor game almost, I mean, it had it just
(46:04):
there was the spiritualists. I mean, there was just all
kinds of talk about that at that time. So, so yes,
that does in fact, that's the scene that I had
read in the in the book party.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Oh yes, it was.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
It was the hypnosis scene. I think we could tell
what it is, can't we tell it?
Speaker 2 (46:26):
So basically send them to send them to look for it,
send the reader to look for it.
Speaker 3 (46:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
So Bonnie you you you're coming over to the States
or you'll be in the States by the time our
listeners hear this. Any any book events planned while you
are on this side of the pond.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
I don't have any planned. Actually, I was hoping to
plan one, but it just didn't come through. So no.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Well, well, folks will miss the charm of your personality
in person, but they can certainly still get it through
the book. It is published by was it HarperCollins?
Speaker 3 (47:07):
HarperCollins. Yeah, and they have an imprint called Collins Crime Club.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
Yes. And there are also additional notes supporting material at
MacBird dot com, which folks, I have to be honest.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
They're not up yet. I just redid my website and
all the annotations have to be reinstalled on there. But
there will be notes because I usually include historical notes
that things that explain some.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Of the science and so for what a great incentive
for people to keep checking it out and see what
it get's updated? Well, Bonnie mcbird, author of The Serpent
Under and five other Sherlock Holmes pastiches from HarperCollins Crime
Club imprint, once again, thank you for being here on
(47:54):
I here of Sherlock Everywhere, and we'll see you soon.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
Nice to see you and nice to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Beyond just the joy of talking to Bonnie, you know,
the book is really very very entertaining, and that comes
through in her description of what her approach is here.
But readers will find that there's no shortage. Many of
the cases of Sherlock Holmes that we know from Watson
do not involve a murder. Well, friends, we make up
(48:32):
for that here because there are account of I think
ten murders in this particular case. But the start of
the story is going to grab people too, because right
away you're engaged in Windsor Castle in the Palace, and
so it's really a lovely effort here.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
It really is. And you know, Bonnie being in London
and having access to so many of these places and
having done the research. I think back to the heroic
efforts that Bonnie made and her research around Whiskey for
one of her previous books that was She's So Brave
so brave she is. That was Unquiet Spirits her second
(49:14):
installation there.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
That was.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
I really have to tip the Deer Stalker to Donnie
Bonnie for that.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Yeah, yeah, well, I'm sorry she didn't get to use
her original title for that, which was set him up again, barkeep.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Line them up. It's a chance of listening with your correspondent,
Madeline Kenyonez.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
Hello everyone, I'm Madeline Kenyanis and today I'm here to
talk about the other podcast focused on the Granada series.
I am, of course, speaking of the Jeremy Brett Charlock
CULMBS podcast. Sidebar. This is the moment to say that
Scott and Bird have interviewed Gus and Luke holwarda twice
(50:00):
and if you haven't listened to those episodes, you absolutely should.
The episode numbers are two hundred and three and two
hundred and eighty four. The funny thing is that two
podcasts about Granada came out within months of each other,
and apparently with that either ever being aware of each other,
(50:22):
there was also no spark in the Sherlockian zeitgeist that
led to either podcast creation, but by twenty eighteen and
twenty nineteen BBC Sherlock had aired its final season, the
third Robert Danny Junior movie was already feeling less and
less possible. CBS Elementary was wrapping up its run, and
(50:43):
there were no other major Sherlockian adaptations on the horizon.
There was more room to talk and obsess about other
things and older things. So when two brothers started a
podcast taking a detailed look at the Granada series Sherlockiana
was more than ready for for it. Gus and Luke
aren't just fanboys, they're also independent filmmakers. That factor is
(51:06):
one of the things that made the show so special
from the beginning, because they could analyze the show not
only from a fan's perspective, but also from a technical perspective.
And then they started interviewing cast and crewe. What began
as a super detailed look at the show became a
tremendous oral history of it. From the beginning, Gus would
(51:28):
give bios of the guest stars, writers and directors, and
he would dig into the published accounts of the series.
But with the addition of the interviews, the show became
something tremendously special, to the point where now the brothers
and their producer, David Yule, are hosting events where fans
can gather together and listen to Canston Krue talking about
(51:49):
the Granada series in person. It's gone from being a
fun and super nerdy show to being an important body
of work that is so fun and super nerdy in mind.
Let's get to some recommendations. As far as normal episodes go,
I would say that if you're already a Granada fan,
just dive into an episode that covers one of your
(52:11):
favorite Granada episodes. If you're not a Granada fan but
you're curious, same basic idea, go for one of your
favorite Cannon stories. But as far as interviews go, well,
that's an embarrassment of virches. They're all wonderful, but the
single out a handful. Prim Hardwick, wife of the late
(52:31):
Edward Hardwick in season two twenty twenty, David Burke in
season four twenty twenty two, and June Wyndham Davies in
season five, twenty twenty three. I could keep on gushing
about this show, so I will just shut up now
and let you get on with your New Year's festivities.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
Tears. Well, that is just again a lovely contribution from
madd life. You know that we're a little more than
halfway through this series that she is producing for us,
looking at all of these Sherlockian podcasts across the spectrum,
(53:11):
and I have to say, as we've round the corner
toward this second half or so, I'm going to miss
this when it's over. It's a lovely little feature.
Speaker 2 (53:24):
Yeah, well, we need to be creative about what else
we might do along the same lines. Why don't we
just give her a bunch of plane tickets and ask
her to travel around and meet Sherlockians.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
Well, you know that would be a nice tie in
with this new Sherlockian Society feature. We could have correspondents locally. Oh,
that's picking up some sounds and some sights and some observations.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
Well that's a good idea.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
Well, we'll put it out there for the universe. We'll
see what happens. Well, you know that sound means that
it is time for everyone's favorite Sherlockean quiz program. That's right,
it's canonical couplet where we give you two lines of
poetry and you give us which Sherlock Holme story we
(54:10):
are talking about. In the last episode, you may recall
that we left you with this clue enough for him
to kiss her garments, hems and cheer while millions tumbled
in the Thames. Bert, I'm gonna risk it. I'm gonna
(54:31):
put myself out there and ask you to put yourself
out there. Do you know which Sherlock Holme story we're
talking about.
Speaker 2 (54:40):
Oh, yes, absolutely, it's a terrific case. It's where Holmes
gets a client named Hilton Cubit, who comes to him
because his wife is mystifying him. She's trained a chicken
to tap out a secret code. That's the case Watson
called the Dancing Hen.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
Oh god, I should have seen it coming. Oh boy,
you know it's it's January. The cold has frozen my brain.
I wasn't you know. As a matter of fact, it
is so cold last night, old it.
Speaker 2 (55:17):
It is so cold.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
It is so cold last night I saw a chicken
walking with a capon. I'm sorry, Ah, let's not double
up on the pain here. No, that is not it.
In fact, I know it's surprising. But Eric Deckers once
again has come to the rescue. He says, I've solved it,
(55:39):
and it's one of my favorite home stories from the nineties.
It's the story where Watson falls for an American woman
in a pearl necklace after meeting her at a friend's
wedding and then again that other major life ceremonies. It's
the story he called the sign of four weddings and
a few funeral Oh my god, except I may be
(56:03):
confusing this with my favorite nineties rom com and this
is actually the sign of four. That is correct, the
sign of form. Well, Eric was joined by a number
of other listeners. It seems this was one of our
easier ones. So we have an extra large prize wheel
(56:25):
to spin. So we'll bring it in and give it
a spin and around it goes slowing on number eighty one,
eighty one, and that looks like it is a Martin
Schwartz sw Yes, congratulations to you, Martin. We will be
(56:50):
sending you a prize in the mail, something from the
ihose vaults. And so this time around, we have a
copy of Bonnie mcbird's new book book The Serpent Under
for the winner of this canonical couplet. A jealous wife
whose charms were on the wayne endowed her rival with
(57:13):
the brand of Cain. If you know the answer to
this episode's canonical couplet, put it in an email addressed
to comment I hear of Sherlock dot com with canonical
couplet in the subject line. If you are among all
of the correct answers, and we choose your name at random,
you'll win. Good luck. Well, Bert, here we are. We've
(57:38):
done it again. Are you having a nice time at
the BSI weekend?
Speaker 3 (57:40):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (57:41):
I'm having a great time, you know, just missing you.
It's a shame that you're someplace else talking into a microphone.
Speaker 1 (57:49):
Well I am right now, but in the future I
will be with the future you on the fifteenth seventeenth.
Speaker 2 (57:55):
Yes, when you see me, let me give you a
lottery ticket. Oh no, no, we should have done that.
Speaker 1 (58:00):
Now it's too late. I hate these these split time
travel things that we're working on. Me too.
Speaker 2 (58:07):
Well, you know, no matter when you are, there you be.
Speaker 1 (58:13):
And I suppose this is the eternal being Scott Monty.
Speaker 2 (58:18):
Yeah, and I was here just a minute ago.
Speaker 1 (58:20):
I'm Bert Wolder, and together we say.
Speaker 2 (58:26):
The game games.
Speaker 1 (58:31):
Off a foot, the games of the foot.
Speaker 3 (58:41):
I'm afraid that in the pleasure of this conversation I'm
neglecting business of importance, which awaits me.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
Thank you for listening. Please be sure to join us
again for the next episode. Of I hear of Sherlock everywhere.
The first podcast us dedicated to Sherlock Holmes.
Speaker 2 (59:05):
Goodbye and good luck, and believe me to be my
dear mother. That is sincerely yours, Sherlock Holmes
Support for I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere comes from MX Publishing,
with the largest catalog of new Sherlock Holmes books in
the world. New novels, biographies, graphic novels, and short story
collections about Sherlock Holmes find them at MS publishing dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And listeners like you who support us on Patreon or
substack sign up for exclusive benefits at Patreon dot com,
slash I Hear of Sherlock or I Hear of Sherlock
dot Substack dot com.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere, Episode three hundred and three,
The Serpent under I Head.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Of shelocke it very well, since you became a strumming man.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
In a world where it's always eighteen ninety five. It's
I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere. A podcast for devotees of
mister Sherlock Holmes, the world's first unofficial consulting detective.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I've Heard of you before, Holmes, The Medland Holmes, The
Busybody Homes, the stockland Yard, Jacket Office.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
The Game's afoot As we interview authors, editors, creators, and
other prominent Sherlockians on various aspects of the great detective.
In popular culture.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
As we go to press, sensational developments have been reported.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
So join your hosts Scott Monty and Burt Walder as
they talk about what's new in the world of Sherlock Holmes.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
A time.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I'm Mill Curtis. This is I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
Now Here are your hosts, Scott Marty and Bert Walder.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
Hello, and welcome to I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere, the
first podcast for Sherlock Holmests Where It's always eighteen ninety five.
I'm Scott Monty, I'm Bert Wilder and Bert are you
feeling over or under today?
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Over or under? The over under? That's sort of like
I mean, in the old days, you know, you'd go
to a Turkish bath, but here in America it's just
evolved to sporting pools.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I like that. I like that. Well, you, to me
will always be over the oak. You are the tops.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Over the olk, and I'm feeling under the table. Where
was the reverend under the table?
Speaker 1 (02:36):
Under the table? I remember that one. Well, let's not
get into that. We are looking forward to a wonderful
conversation with author Bonnie mcbird today. Bonnie is well, I'll
give you her bio in just a little bit. But
she has her sixth book out in her series, her
pastiches of Holmes and Watson the Serpent under so it
(02:57):
should be a wonderful conversation with her. And well, if
you haven't picked up the book yet, here's your chance
to get up to speed on things and to join
us in this conversation. And of course we ask that
you join us on Patreon or substack, whatever you happen
to choose, that is fine with us. You can go
to Patreon dot com, slash I Hear of Sherlock, or
(03:20):
I Hear of Sherlock dot substack dot com, and of
course we have all of these links that I Hear
of Sherlock dot com and in the show notes for
wherever you happen to listen to us. We have a
growing community in each of those areas, and we have
features for our paying subscribers, features that include ad free episodes,
(03:45):
features that include bonus content, additional conversation that you won't
hear anywhere else, or additional pieces of media that we
have for you to check out. And of course, starting
here in season nineteen, we are going to be running
Sherlockian News just for our Patreon and substack supporters. So
(04:08):
if that isn't enough of an incentive to get you
to support us, I don't know what is as little
as a dollar a month you can become a supporter,
So thank you in advance, Welbert. One of the things
that we are starting this time around is a snapshot
(04:31):
of what's going on with Sherlockian societies. We thought that
since we remove the news feature, that a look at
Shrilocian societies might be in order, And quite frankly, I
think it's important to look at what's going on at
the local level because this is where people get involved,
and there are all kinds of science societies really all
(04:54):
over the world that do things differently. They have fun
with what they've done, and we've talked about how to
get involved with sherlock in societies or what Sherlockian societies
are like in the past. I think episode one hundred
and ten has a feature on that, and I've been
(05:15):
seeing a lot of chatter online about people who are
curious about this or simply are not informed, they have
no idea that this stuff is going on. I thought
that I hear of Sherlock everywhere. Since we are supposed
to hear of Sherlock everywhere would provide a great service
to our listeners by featuring activities that are ongoing and
(05:40):
perhaps upcoming with Sherlockian science.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
Well, it's a great idea, and you know, look at
it's amazing what goes on. And in fact, my personal
experience too is you can learn a lot about things
that are going on in your own neighborhood that you
have no idea are happening. So, for example, when I
looked at the Scion meetings that are happening in January,
(06:10):
I was very surprised to find in my own state,
and we have a nicely active group that meets twice
a year called the Redheaded League of Jersey. But I
saw on the list that towards the end of January
in Middlesex, New Jersey, there's a group I didn't know
existed that is meeting where my contact is my friend,
(06:33):
our friend, Paul Hartnett. So you can learn a lot
there and I'm looking forward to those discussions.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Oh that's wonderful. And just so folks know, we are
drawing our inspiration from two links, primarily the Sherlockian Calendar,
which is heroically established upkept and updated by Ron Fish
that is at Sherlockianclendar dot com, and by the geographical
(07:03):
listing of Sherlockian Societies, which is done as part of
a Google map, that is up kept by Mike mcswiggan,
and we have that via the Beacon Society website. We'll
have links to both of those in the show notes,
so you can go and check them whenever you want.
But we will be highlighting Scion activities from episode to episode.
(07:27):
This is kind of the way the Baker Street Journal
used to feature Scion reports, and we don't want to
be as pedantic as that and formulaic as that, but
we thought every two weeks here in our episodes, we'd
call out some interesting activities, whether they were upcoming or
whether they recently happened. And folks, if you are part
of a scion part well not even a scien, a
(07:50):
Sherlockian society. Scion means that you've officially been recognized by
the Baker Street Journal. It's really just a matter of paperwork,
anything very formal at all. But just know when we
say scion or society, we're using them interchangeably. But if
you are part of a Sherlockian Society, and you've had
(08:11):
an activity that you'd like to report on, or you
have an activity coming up that you would like us
to share, please.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Let us know.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
This is a great format for us to reach out
to the community and make more of a community feature
here on I hear of Sherlock everywhere.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yeah, and we're interested too in all kinds of meetings.
You know, many of the meetings that go on today
are virtual, and so just looking at the January calendar,
I see the Chicago group the South Downers as a
virtual meeting on the fifteenth, which, as you're listening to
this you've missed, unfortunately. But the Montague Street Incargibles have
(08:49):
Dangling Prussian pub Night virtual meeting on the seventeenth, and
Norwegian Explorers have the Study Group on the eighteenth of January.
So there's just a lot going on. In another virtual meeting,
the Sound of the Baskervilles on the nineteenth, and then
some formal meetings later in the month, Watson's Tin Box,
(09:09):
the Middlesex Constabulary in Middlesex, New Jersey, the Scotland Yards,
the Ribston Pippens meet in Royal Oak, Michigan on the
twenty fifth of January Bootmakers of Toronto of a virtual meeting,
and when Williamsburg the Sherlock Holmes Birthday celebration by the
Dog Irregulars, and then the Scourers a virtual meeting of
the Scours and Molly McGuire's later in the month on
(09:32):
the twenty sixth, plenty going on.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
That is really encouraging, and typically January is a busy
month for Sherlock ends, being that it is the month
in which we celebrate Sherlock Holmes's birthday. And I would
be remiss if I didn't point out Eric Deckers, our
very own Eric Deckers from Canonical Couplet Fame has contributed
an article on I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere refuting the
(09:58):
fact the fact that Sherlock Holmes' birthday is on January sixth. No, no, no,
Eric says it is not January sixth. He did the
math and figured it out. When is it. Well, we'll
leave that for Eric to explain. We'll have a link
to that in the show notes. And by the way,
(10:19):
Eric has written me privately and is interested in forming
a Sherlockian society in the Orlando, Florida area and if
there are any Floridian Sherlockians who would like to join
Eric in that well, drop us a note and we'll
make sure you get connected. Since you are a listener
(10:48):
of I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere, we can be fairly
certain that you enjoy audio. And if you enjoy audio
as it relates to Sherlock Holmes, then guess what you
are in life. Our friends at MX Publishing have over
three hundred and ninety books that are available on Audible
(11:09):
as part of the MX Publishing platform, and we here
at I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere have a code to
share with you that you can claim four five free
audio books. All you have to do is follow the
link in the show notes under our sponsorship section. Click
(11:31):
on that link and it'll take you to a form
that you can fill out to claim your five titles.
You can look through the full list of Audible titles
from MX Publishing so you can see what you are getting.
There are titles there like The Selected Cases of Doctor
Watson by Martin Daly narrated by Kevin Green, The Further
Memoirs of Sherlock Holmes by Caden Cooper Miles narrated by
(11:55):
Luke Barton, who you may remember, appeared here on an
episode of I Hear Sherlock Everywhere and The Recollections of
Sherlock Holmes by Arthur Hall narrated by Michael Langan. Again,
there are over three hundred and ninety titles to choose from.
Put in the five that you like in that form
and you will get an email describing what you need
(12:17):
to do to claim your free codes. We hope you
appreciate this free offer from MX Publishing, our longtime sponsor
and friend of the program. Be sure to visit their
entire website at MX publishing dot com. Bonnie mcbird is
(12:47):
best known as the author of an ongoing best selling
series of Sherlock Holmes Adventures for HarperCollins. She received her
BA in Music and MA in Film from Stanford University
and worked in development at Universal Studios, where she became
a story editor for feature films. She left to write
the movie Tron, then sold numerous other screenplays to various
(13:09):
studios and indies. Her own production company, Creative License, later
won three Emmys and eleven Cynic gold Eagles for creative
documentary and scripted work. Bonnie taught screenwriting for ten years
at UCLA extension, numbering among her students several now famous
(13:30):
producers and writers. After thirty years in the entertainment business
in Los Angeles, she now lives in London with her husband,
computer scientist Alan Kay, where she writes, acts, paints, sings,
an a choir, and volunteers for the Crime Writers Association and
the Sherlock Holmes Society of London. Bonnie received her investiture
(13:53):
art in the Blood in the Baker Street Irregulars in
twenty seventeen. Bonnie mcbird, welcome back to I hear of
Sherlock everywhere.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
Well, it's great to be here.
Speaker 1 (14:07):
Now this is your fourth time we have. We ought
to put together an exclusive club of multiple appearing I
hear of Sherlock everywhere. Yes, you are among them, and
it's great to have you back.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Could we could we afford the club jacket or sweater
if we did that, like for Saturday Night Live?
Speaker 3 (14:26):
Right? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Well we got to get.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Swag, yeah, yeah, definitely like that.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
I'm a Fordy regular. If you're going to get a
giant me too, that's perfect. We'll get to then.
Speaker 1 (14:37):
Wow, this is the sixth book in your series, and Bonny,
I need to ask you straight away are these sequential
for anyone who hasn't read your books before? Are these sequential?
Do they need to be read in publication order?
Speaker 3 (14:54):
No, they actually don't have to be read in order
at all. Their standalones. I mean they sometimes they'll refer
to something, but you don't need to know it. You
don't need to know anything that has happened before. I
placed them specifically in time, and they jump around a
little bit, but so no, they're standalones. And I do
have a couple of continuing characters. But like I said,
(15:16):
each time I bring them in again, I remind the
reader in case they didn't see the first time they appeared.
So no, you don't have to read them in any order.
Speaker 1 (15:27):
Well that's helpful. I mean, looks Arthur Conan Doyle forgot
that he brought Moriarty in before, and we were reintroduced
to him in the Valley of Fear. So yeah, well
I think there's.
Speaker 3 (15:38):
A reason for doing that, because you know, you don't
know that the reader has necessarily read that one before,
you know. But I was trying to introduce them in
a way that works for both people who know who
it is, but also maybe fraud or people who just
haven't met that character, but keep that very short intest,
but that my continuing characters are Hefi, Heffy, O'Malley, Hefsbi,
(16:02):
O'Malley and then this character name is Jean v DC,
although he's not in this one, but Hefi is.
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Really has your process changed as you've written these books?
I noticed that. I mean, here, it seems to me
the story now is so expansive. It may be the
most expansive of the stories that you've done so far,
and you've structured it in quite a beautifully beautifully structured
I mean, it's a great book because you can just
go in and read, you know, a chapter, but you're
(16:31):
you've got the story organized in seven parts. So as
you as you think about and create these things, has
your own process changed or you.
Speaker 3 (16:40):
Know, it's changed a little bit. But actually, all of
the all all of the books are have more than
one mystery going on. There's usually like one main one.
Uh oh are you still there?
Speaker 2 (16:54):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (16:55):
Yes, because my screen went somewhere else and I've lost
you on the screen. Hold on, okay, there you're back. Yeah.
So so they all have like three mysteries, usually convolving,
but there's one a story you know. So, uh so
my process has it hasn't changed, but I guess it's
(17:15):
evolved and kind of firmed up over the seven over
the seven books. So people ask me do I pre
plot or do I outline? And no, I don't. You know,
I've attended a lot of mystery writing conferences, and you'd
think that people that write mysteries would be plotters, you know,
they'd be planning these out with maps, and some people do,
(17:36):
but a larger majority of mystery writers don't do that,
and I'm one of those. So there's something called pantsying,
which I'm sure you've heard of, flying by the seat
of your pants. Then there was you don't pre outline, however,
I do start with some really specific things like I
know the a crime, the big you know, juicy crime,
(17:57):
I know who did it, I knew how they did it,
and I know why they did it. And then I
pick a place or an area, you know, location or locations,
and then I pick a theme at a time of year.
And then I go back to the canon and I
go I use there's a million chronologies, of course, I
(18:19):
think I use less as compilation one and try to
place like where so it doesn't conflict with canon, because
one of my one of my lines in the sand
about these books is I don't want to conflict with
anything in canon. You know, say something that he wouldn't say,
or you know, or or just just you know, have
(18:40):
something that contradicts something in canon. So I try to
try to be careful about that. So I try to
place the thing in time, and then I just start writing.
And however, I as I'm writing along, I just have
an instinctive knowledge when this chapter is done. I write
fairly short chapters. And I think all of my structuring
(19:03):
thinking is from screenwriting, because I not only was I
screenwriter for about eight years, but I was a story
editor at Universal Studios in feature films for four years.
So I read countless screenplays and I worked and I
gave notes on all of these, and I've got sort
of ingrained into me the long form storytelling structure that
(19:25):
underlies most good movies. So a scene is a scene,
you know, and it needs to fly along. And that's
a chapter for my books.
Speaker 1 (19:34):
Yeah. Well, And I think one thing that is compelling
about your writing, Bonnie, is that from chapter to chapter,
we find ourselves being drawn along in the story, which
I would imagine is your intention that we get to
the end of one chapter. We can't. I want you
to put it down in the water exactly, but we
(19:56):
can't wait to see what's happening next. So, you know,
and as we find ourselves in the opening of The
Serpent under I think it's a time frame, a date
that will resonate with Sherlockeans because we find ourselves a
late winter early spring of eighteen ninety one, that consequential year,
(20:19):
we only have a few months left of Sherlock Holmes
in London until he heads off to Switzerland with Watson.
So it's a really compelling time time frame in which
defined ourselves with the characters.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Yeah, and they know each other quite well at this point,
Holmes and Watson. You know, I like, I've generally set
them in the eighteen eighties and early eighteen ninety but
because I like the I like thinking of them as
young men in their thirties.
Speaker 1 (20:52):
You know, active, spry.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Yeah, they're very active men of action. I'm madly in
love with them. Also, well, that's helpful.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
That's helpful because it shows that you, you know, you
care a great deal about these characters. I think you're
faithful once again, and so inevitably what we I think,
(22:22):
what we think of when we see the serpent under
as a title, when we see the cover of the
book with the snakeskin, obviously Sherlockeans are going to think
of the Speckled Band, and Bert and I both members
of the Speckled Band of Boston, so it's deep within
our hearts. But tell us a little bit, because I
know there's some professional help that you got with respect
(22:46):
to writing about snakes and whatnot, But talk a little
bit about your your inspiration and how you got well
informed in this area.
Speaker 3 (22:56):
Sure, well, the initial inspiration was the notion of snakes
as treacherous. So the quote from Lady m is, uh,
seem like the innocent flower, but be the serpent under it,
And that's from Shakespeare. So that was the That was
(23:16):
the initial kind of thematic statements. So it's sort of
about treachery became the kind of theme. But then I
also wanted actual snakes in it, and so yes, I
always do research, usually like on the spot or on
location or with people who are experts and so forth,
(23:37):
you know what. So, for example, in the three locks
lock locks we're part were one of the locks that
was referring to, and I went to the National Lock Museum,
which is in Rugby, England, and you know, so I
try to find experts in their fields. And this time,
I of course started online. As I started this as
(23:59):
a pandemic, were still in lockdown, and I started looking
at snakes and seeing videos of snakes, and I had
questions like do they make noise? And how do you know?
Et cetera. Lots of questions and I found an expert
(24:21):
online and I'm corresponding with him and he goes, no, no,
the person you need to talk to is Professor Sir
David Worrell. It's like Sir David. Yes, he's a knighted
herpetologist from Oxford. So I wrote to this man, quite
intimidated before I've even contacted him, and I was like, yeah,
with this very polite, tended letter explaining what I was doing.
(24:43):
And I got this lovely response from this man and
he became my consultant. And I went up to Oxford
and took him out to a nice lunch and he
handed me a little thumb drive and he said, here,
hold my notes. They're quite pedantic, but that's what we
do but he's so nice. I mean, he's funny. He's
(25:10):
a very very nice man. I took most of his notes,
not all of them, because and he also understood that
you have to take dramatic license when you write these things.
So so you know, Conan Doyle, they don't snakes don't
drink milk, they don't get trained to food like that.
In fact, you really can't train a snake. You can.
(25:31):
In fact, one of the things I learned at the
Fairmount about snake charmers for this book. And you know,
there's there's quite a bit of lore about it. But
when they come out of the basket, they're kind of
sleepy and so they're less likely to strike. And then
they're distracted by that that musical instrument, and you think
(25:51):
it's from the music, but now they can't really even
hear very well. It's the movement of the actual thing
that they're looking at. So in one point in the
in the story, in my story, they're they're confronted by
a snake, and so they know this, So homes is
some uh, some sort of deflective activity which I won't
(26:12):
go into because the wreck the scene. But but anyway,
there's a lot of interesting facts about snakes, and so
one other one is is that the venom is. Snakes
don't always inject venom. It's you never know. They can
inject a full on fatal dose in a single bite,
or they can inject just a little venom or none,
(26:33):
which is called a dry bite. And there's no way
to predict that. And there's not really a rhyme or
reason to it, because I don't know if they're thinking
of this, these snakes, but I mean, you know, the
little pea brains. But anyway, so it's a it's a
very interesting thing. Another one was somebody in an Amazon review,
(26:55):
but oh, this woman has Google at her fingertips and
doesn't she know that snakes don't make noises. I literally
said that, I'm like, what they do? I do have
Google at my fingertips and an expert, and I spent
a fair amount because i wanted it to make a noise.
Of course, I'm writing for dramatic effect. But when I
(27:16):
read that it they can very rarely though cobris can
make this sound, which is really scary. Let me do
they can't make that sound? So I had to make
that sound. Wow, you know, But the research is some
of the fun, the really fun stuff to.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Do your research comes comes through in the story, and
the research that you've done and how you animate it
and how you present it in the tale is really
thrilling to the reader. That now, without giving anything away
because we don't want to give away any spoilers, we've
just talked about snakes and they're the somewhat approaching the book.
(27:57):
Might well imagine that somewhere along the line, somebody gets
bitten by a snake. Well, the interesting thing also that
I saw as a reader here is the cure. Because typically,
you know, people say, oh, I'm going to suck that
venom mount and so on and so forth. Well, for
a variety of reasons, that doesn't happen here. But what
does happen here is Yeah, well I want you to
(28:20):
talk about that, But I also want you to talk
about the invention of the iron lung, which pops up here.
And it's another one of these points that really locates,
you know, the reader in the time and makes it
very authentic. I thought it was a lovely touch.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
I that is what's in there is true. Now I
stretched it slightly and placed it in a different location
than it actually was. But when I was doing my
research and understood that the venoms, the different venoms and
poisons of these reptiles behave differently in the body. But
the cobra venom acts by paralyzing the respiratory system, so
(28:58):
you basically just suffocate. You can't breathe and so and
it's pretty horrifying. Actually, uh oh am, I still here,
You're okay. My screen went play. So I thought, well,
I got very interested in artificial respiration for one of
the previous books, where I learned some really crazy stuff about.
(29:21):
First of all, artificial respiration was was performed differently in
homes this time than it is now. The person's face
down and all kinds of things. There's different ways to
do it. And just prior to the Victorian era, in
like the Georgian era, for some reason, they thought that
if you drowned, if you blew smoke up the person's ass,
(29:45):
if you eave them as smoke enema, they would revive.
This probably happened once or something, I don't know, so
this is true. They used to I'm diverting reading here
a little bit, but they used to have all along
the Thames, these stands, these boxes where there was the
equipment for a smoke enema, because you found a drowned person,
you could quickly give them that and they would revive.
(30:08):
This is true. I know you can't make this step
up anyway. That wasn't still the case at Holmes's time,
but nevertheless they did have a different theory about how
you gave artificial respiration.
Speaker 2 (30:20):
Well, and so I can imagine how you would market that.
You know, if you were if you were by the seaside,
you know, you have a little placard and people would
come by and say does it really work? And you
would say, well, two things, sir. Imagine the look of
surprise on their face and it couldn't hurt, right.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
But I know it's just so crazy. But I also
love Victorian medicine. I have a bunch of books and
I go to the welcome library. It just fascinates me.
I think I'm somebody who wanted to be a doctor
at one time, and I just that whole all that
subject matter. So I started reading it, like what actually
happens with snake bite? And uh, and what was the
(31:03):
science at the time. Now, I actually came up with
the idea like, well, if your respiratory system is paralyzed
as like polia really and then I thought, well, I
wonder if they I wonder if the what was the
iron lung would work, and in fact it would and
then it but it wasn't really happening yet, but it
(31:24):
was the early prototypes of it were did exist at
that time. And then I came across some something somewhere
that a guy in India had used it once for
snake bite and it worked. So one guy did it once,
so I love it and because and then my expert professor,
(31:46):
Sir David Worrel, who was his his expertise was actually
in the medical end of this anyway, and I did
honestly take some liberties with what he gave me. And
he knows that. I mean, he was like, okay with that,
because it's it's drama, it's it's it's entertainment. But but
in fact, this isn't totally crazy idea at all. And
(32:09):
and he but then he corrected me like if okay,
if this is if he's turning blue with this, and
he you know, he talked about how much time a
person would have before they would be dead and so forth.
So he gave me some very good clues about that,
but it's actually based on it's it's it's extended reality,
(32:29):
but it is reality. So there were these there were
these early prototypes of the iron lung, and and they
were very they were different at the time too. So
the one was the thing you sat in, and then
later on they were they encompassed your whole body, and
then later on it was more like we then later
(32:49):
had like in the fifties and sixties, where it was
a long wrecktionle your head was out of it. But anyway,
they they I sort of got very interested in the
in the science of this, uh. And also there's also
a lot of lore around snags and that was really
interesting too. You know, of course they symbolize treachery and
(33:11):
you know, sneakiness and you know something dangerous underneath that
you don't see coming, and that kind of thing. So
I thought that had good thematic resonance and and would
be fun fun to explore. And I do mention this
happens after in the in the canonical chronology, it happens
after I think it happens after the Specs band. So
(33:36):
they're like, I thought we had enough snags.
Speaker 1 (33:41):
Well, and you know, Bonnie, this is what I love
about your books is that you take such great care
in your research in the time and the place and
the you know, the the parallel universes that we're looking at,
and managed to weave them together in such a convincing
way that you know, as a reader, it doesn't feel forced,
(34:06):
it doesn't feel like it's unrealistic in any way. You know,
this is this is part real history and part hole
Mesian history. And I think that's just such a wonderful
talent you have here.
Speaker 3 (34:18):
Well, thank you. It's you know, it's like we all
all almost Sherlock in, I mean sort of play the game.
This is my version of playing the game. And and
you know Conan Duyle obviously he had a lot of
real science in his in the works, and then he
also you know, got a little fantastic at times, and
you know, that's what you do as an entertainer. These
(34:40):
are entertainment. I just want to be aware of when
I'm going, you know, being fanciful and when I'm in.
But it's much more interesting to the reader if it's
really based in reality. You feel that you sense it,
and so I think it's and it's fun for me
to just especially I put some vic Torrian medicine and
(35:00):
every single one of my books because I like it.
I just find it so fascinating.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Well, and for Conan Doyle, he was he was living
his reality in real time. For you, you have to
go back and actually do the research and place yourself
in his shoes, so to speak.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
Right, right, And yeah, it's interesting because you know, you
have to look up so much stuff. You know, he oops,
did I go away again? Okay? Oh man, this is
the computer is doing weird things. Let me just see
okay there. Yeah, So so for him, you know, I
have to look up everything like what the name of
(35:37):
this kind of hat, you know, and just like all
the little details and uh. And the readers are really
ready to nail you on that if you don't get
that right, Like so they're really looking to nail me
on being American. Now I live here, I'm really immersed
in the language. I of course read this stuff all
(35:59):
the time about it still makes some mistakes because you know,
I'm not really I'm not content Doyle, I'm not English.
The latest one was because at one time I said
a sidewalk instead of pavement. That you know, I've never
made that mistake again. But I have my books vetted
by several British readers, including Catherine Cook and others who
(36:22):
you know kind of I said, nail me. If you
find anything says American to you, tell me. So I've
run this by several people for that, just for that alone,
and I also run it by, like I said, science
advisors and experts on whatever I'm touching in on. And
(36:43):
but this one was, let's say, talked with someone instead
of talked to someone. Someone got upset about that. I
haven't actually looked at whether that they were justifiably upset.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
I'm not sure of it anyway, But this raises an
interesting question. Are are Sherlockians more critical? Are say that
your British audience is more critical? Where do you see
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Who was that person recently, but there's always somebody I think,
you know, I'm not sure. I'm not sure what it is,
but you know, Sherlockians generally are very you know, they
have high ideals, and they're they're discerning, they're intelligent across
(37:28):
the board, and you know they they don't want to
have the journey disrupted by some anachronism, you know. And
I don't want it to be disrupted by an anachronism
or Americanism or something. I really wanted to feel seamless,
that you're just in the story. You know, it's my
job to not leave any pebbles for you to slip on,
(37:49):
you know, yeah, just so you can enjoy the story.
And so that's what I try to do, is be
as time period correct as I can. But also I'm
writing for modern reader, don't forget that, and you know,
so then you're walking kind of a fine line with
attention span and vocabulary, et cetera. I never dumbed down
(38:10):
the vocabulary, though Victorian literature uses a lot more bigger
words than we do now typically typically not entirely, but
more typically and longer sentence structure and that kind of thing.
So I kind of I feel like I'm walking kind
(38:30):
of a fine line there. But I'm trying to write
a book that I would enjoy reading. And I love
Conan Doyle and I love Sherlock Home. So I'm trying
to give the experience that feels like that.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
Well, clearly you've been successful, because we want to point
this out and you're welcome to blush. This is an
audio recording, so they'll need to worry about how it appears.
But you got a review in the Times, and of
course for our America and listeners, that's the London Times,
(39:02):
not the New York Times. If I met the New
York Times, I would have said the New York Times,
the London version of the Times, which is huge, and
allow me to read just an excerpt from it, if
you would. There's been no shortage of Sherlock Holmes pastiches
over the decades, but some of the finest new adventures
(39:23):
featuring Conan Doyle's great detective recently have been those written
by Bonnie mcbird. This one begins, as all good home
stories should, in the cozy confines of two two one
b Baker Street, Holmes and Watson her summoned to Windsor Castle,
where a young woman in the royal household has been
found murdered with mysterious tattoos carved into her face. They
(39:46):
are also drawn into the mystery surrounding the drowning of
the serpentine of one of the in the serpentine of
one of the Baker Street irregulars, The detective's band of
Street urchin intelligence gatherers, combining a convincing imitation of Watson's
narrative style with a labyrinthine plot for Holmes to navigate.
Mcbird's sixth excursion into Victorian London is a treat for
(40:10):
all Sherlockians. Wow, Bonnie, you must be so pleased with that.
Speaker 3 (40:17):
I'm astounded, really and very gratified, because I wasn't expecting that.
You know, you just put the thing out there and
you don't know, you don't know what people are going to.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
Think or if I like it the six times a
charm I guess.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
Well, I was. I was very pleasantly surprised by that review.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
What a wonderful legacy. And we should touch on this
as we are recording here in between the Sherlock Holmes
Society of London Dinner and the Baker Street Irregular's Annual Dinner.
You had your book launch in London. Yes, tell us
about how that went.
Speaker 3 (40:59):
Oh, that was a load of fun. I have some
actor friends here, and I a couple of professional actors
that I've used to do readings for my books. There's
one particularly lovely Sherlock comes here named Jonathan Lebill, and
in fact the figure on the cover of the book
is him. He's also a dancer, and so I had
(41:20):
him costumed and we went to a local park and
I had actually I had him leaping and like you know,
confronting a snag basically, and he was I had all
kinds of action, seeing leaps and things. But the publishing
company picked picked the image that you see you see
on the front of the book. But anyway, that's him.
So he's a professional actor. And I have another young
(41:41):
man who's a wonderful actor too, who plays my Watson.
So I had them do a reading. And then this
last summer I did a play myself. I was in
a play and it was Romeo and Juliet and I
played the nurse. It's a fabulous role and it was
a great and I'm getting to the point here sort of,
(42:03):
but it's a great but the guy, young guy who directed,
that young Cambridge guy who was in Footlights, a very
funny man. Uh, he played the role for me. And
so the three of them read a scene from the
book from the Serpent under in in the book party
and it was they were they were delightful. You know,
(42:24):
actors really get the humor that you know, they are
trained to look for the emotional turns, and the conflict
and then the surprise. You know, they they they just
mine each scene for you know, the magic of it,
and they find it. And these these three were just
so delightful.
Speaker 1 (42:45):
Well, that's wonderful to hear. Now, will you be doing
any Oh sorry, Bert, go ahead, No, no, Well.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
I'm just curious. There's so much going on in the book,
and I wanted to make sure our readers know how
faithful you are to Holmes and how you draw out
and add to what we know about him. And one
of the things you have in the book that it's
really lovely is his background and familiarity with horses. And
we know that, of course from Scandal in Bohemia when
(43:14):
he mess garades as a groom, but here you have him.
You know, there's a marvelous scene sort of early on
in the book that gives you yet another dimension to
his experiences and has him remind Watson that his ancestors
were country squires.
Speaker 3 (43:30):
Country squires, yep, yep. It's also makes me think of
it a little bit about Alan, my husband, because he
grew up in a fairly rural area at least for
part of his childhood, and he I think he did
a summer during school working on a farm, which he
said which made him decide he would never want to
(43:51):
live in a rural area again. But nevertheless, having had
that experience of actually, you know, mocking into things and
really understanding how animals are treated, are taken care of,
and so forth, you know, he would he would have
known that. And like you said, in Uh, he posed
as a groom, and you know, he was clearly very
(44:14):
alert and aware of horses and how they behaved. And
I thought Jeremy Brett performed that beautifully in the Granada
series because I think he himself was also very familiar
with horses. Yeah, and I was an archer and all
these other things. But anyway, so so yes, that was
kind of fun because one of the things I love
about the character of Holmes is you keep finding that
(44:37):
he's an expert in this and then this and this
other thing and then this other thing, you know, and
because he's got these grand capabilities, and so that's kind
of the delight of the character. And Connadrill does do
that sometimes feels like a rabbit out of the hat, like, oh,
he can also do this, but you figure the man
reads everything and he remembers everything, and he's just very talented.
(45:02):
So the fact that he knows how to help in
the sort of horse emergency that appears in this book, yeah,
fits him. I think.
Speaker 2 (45:12):
Yeah, and we should tell our listeners too that that there.
You've got some easter eggs, you know, throughout the story,
and one of the ones that I really enjoyed seeing,
there's a scene here involving some hypnosis. Oh, and you
have a I'm not going to explain what's going on,
but you have a reference there that if anyone has
seen any of the Universal films with Nigel Bruce, you know,
(45:35):
you would remember a scene about hypnosis. And you've got
a lovely little easter egg there about that.
Speaker 3 (45:41):
Well then there was Nick. You know Nick's in percent.
So yeah, I mean, and well, hypnosis was hugely popularized
right then anyway, and it was just a topic of
conversation both medically and also you know kind of that's
a parlor game almost, I mean, it had it just
(46:04):
there was the spiritualists. I mean, there was just all
kinds of talk about that at that time. So, so yes,
that does in fact, that's the scene that I had
read in the in the book party.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Oh yes, it was.
Speaker 3 (46:18):
It was the hypnosis scene. I think we could tell
what it is, can't we tell it?
Speaker 2 (46:26):
So basically send them to send them to look for it,
send the reader to look for it.
Speaker 3 (46:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
So Bonnie you you you're coming over to the States
or you'll be in the States by the time our
listeners hear this. Any any book events planned while you
are on this side of the pond.
Speaker 3 (46:46):
I don't have any planned. Actually, I was hoping to
plan one, but it just didn't come through. So no.
Speaker 1 (46:55):
Well, well, folks will miss the charm of your personality
in person, but they can certainly still get it through
the book. It is published by was it HarperCollins?
Speaker 3 (47:07):
HarperCollins. Yeah, and they have an imprint called Collins Crime Club.
Speaker 1 (47:11):
Yes. And there are also additional notes supporting material at
MacBird dot com, which folks, I have to be honest.
Speaker 3 (47:20):
They're not up yet. I just redid my website and
all the annotations have to be reinstalled on there. But
there will be notes because I usually include historical notes
that things that explain some.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
Of the science and so for what a great incentive
for people to keep checking it out and see what
it get's updated? Well, Bonnie mcbird, author of The Serpent
Under and five other Sherlock Holmes pastiches from HarperCollins Crime
Club imprint, once again, thank you for being here on
(47:54):
I here of Sherlock Everywhere, and we'll see you soon.
Speaker 3 (47:58):
Nice to see you and nice to talk to you.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Beyond just the joy of talking to Bonnie, you know,
the book is really very very entertaining, and that comes
through in her description of what her approach is here.
But readers will find that there's no shortage. Many of
the cases of Sherlock Holmes that we know from Watson
do not involve a murder. Well, friends, we make up
(48:32):
for that here because there are account of I think
ten murders in this particular case. But the start of
the story is going to grab people too, because right
away you're engaged in Windsor Castle in the Palace, and
so it's really a lovely effort here.
Speaker 1 (48:50):
It really is. And you know, Bonnie being in London
and having access to so many of these places and
having done the research. I think back to the heroic
efforts that Bonnie made and her research around Whiskey for
one of her previous books that was She's So Brave
so brave she is. That was Unquiet Spirits her second
(49:14):
installation there.
Speaker 3 (49:15):
That was.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
I really have to tip the Deer Stalker to Donnie
Bonnie for that.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
Yeah, yeah, well, I'm sorry she didn't get to use
her original title for that, which was set him up again, barkeep.
Speaker 1 (49:29):
Line them up. It's a chance of listening with your correspondent,
Madeline Kenyonez.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
Hello everyone, I'm Madeline Kenyanis and today I'm here to
talk about the other podcast focused on the Granada series.
I am, of course, speaking of the Jeremy Brett Charlock
CULMBS podcast. Sidebar. This is the moment to say that
Scott and Bird have interviewed Gus and Luke holwarda twice
(50:00):
and if you haven't listened to those episodes, you absolutely should.
The episode numbers are two hundred and three and two
hundred and eighty four. The funny thing is that two
podcasts about Granada came out within months of each other,
and apparently with that either ever being aware of each other,
(50:22):
there was also no spark in the Sherlockian zeitgeist that
led to either podcast creation, but by twenty eighteen and
twenty nineteen BBC Sherlock had aired its final season, the
third Robert Danny Junior movie was already feeling less and
less possible. CBS Elementary was wrapping up its run, and
(50:43):
there were no other major Sherlockian adaptations on the horizon.
There was more room to talk and obsess about other
things and older things. So when two brothers started a
podcast taking a detailed look at the Granada series Sherlockiana
was more than ready for for it. Gus and Luke
aren't just fanboys, they're also independent filmmakers. That factor is
(51:06):
one of the things that made the show so special
from the beginning, because they could analyze the show not
only from a fan's perspective, but also from a technical perspective.
And then they started interviewing cast and crewe. What began
as a super detailed look at the show became a
tremendous oral history of it. From the beginning, Gus would
(51:28):
give bios of the guest stars, writers and directors, and
he would dig into the published accounts of the series.
But with the addition of the interviews, the show became
something tremendously special, to the point where now the brothers
and their producer, David Yule, are hosting events where fans
can gather together and listen to Canston Krue talking about
(51:49):
the Granada series in person. It's gone from being a
fun and super nerdy show to being an important body
of work that is so fun and super nerdy in mind.
Let's get to some recommendations. As far as normal episodes go,
I would say that if you're already a Granada fan,
just dive into an episode that covers one of your
(52:11):
favorite Granada episodes. If you're not a Granada fan but
you're curious, same basic idea, go for one of your
favorite Cannon stories. But as far as interviews go, well,
that's an embarrassment of virches. They're all wonderful, but the
single out a handful. Prim Hardwick, wife of the late
(52:31):
Edward Hardwick in season two twenty twenty, David Burke in
season four twenty twenty two, and June Wyndham Davies in
season five, twenty twenty three. I could keep on gushing
about this show, so I will just shut up now
and let you get on with your New Year's festivities.
Speaker 1 (52:50):
Tears. Well, that is just again a lovely contribution from
madd life. You know that we're a little more than
halfway through this series that she is producing for us,
looking at all of these Sherlockian podcasts across the spectrum,
(53:11):
and I have to say, as we've round the corner
toward this second half or so, I'm going to miss
this when it's over. It's a lovely little feature.
Speaker 2 (53:24):
Yeah, well, we need to be creative about what else
we might do along the same lines. Why don't we
just give her a bunch of plane tickets and ask
her to travel around and meet Sherlockians.
Speaker 1 (53:34):
Well, you know that would be a nice tie in
with this new Sherlockian Society feature. We could have correspondents locally. Oh,
that's picking up some sounds and some sights and some observations.
Speaker 2 (53:46):
Well that's a good idea.
Speaker 1 (53:48):
Well, we'll put it out there for the universe. We'll
see what happens. Well, you know that sound means that
it is time for everyone's favorite Sherlockean quiz program. That's right,
it's canonical couplet where we give you two lines of
poetry and you give us which Sherlock Holme story we
(54:10):
are talking about. In the last episode, you may recall
that we left you with this clue enough for him
to kiss her garments, hems and cheer while millions tumbled
in the Thames. Bert, I'm gonna risk it. I'm gonna
(54:31):
put myself out there and ask you to put yourself
out there. Do you know which Sherlock Holme story we're
talking about.
Speaker 2 (54:40):
Oh, yes, absolutely, it's a terrific case. It's where Holmes
gets a client named Hilton Cubit, who comes to him
because his wife is mystifying him. She's trained a chicken
to tap out a secret code. That's the case Watson
called the Dancing Hen.
Speaker 1 (55:00):
Oh god, I should have seen it coming. Oh boy,
you know it's it's January. The cold has frozen my brain.
I wasn't you know. As a matter of fact, it
is so cold last night, old it.
Speaker 2 (55:17):
It is so cold.
Speaker 1 (55:18):
It is so cold last night I saw a chicken
walking with a capon. I'm sorry, Ah, let's not double
up on the pain here. No, that is not it.
In fact, I know it's surprising. But Eric Deckers once
again has come to the rescue. He says, I've solved it,
(55:39):
and it's one of my favorite home stories from the nineties.
It's the story where Watson falls for an American woman
in a pearl necklace after meeting her at a friend's
wedding and then again that other major life ceremonies. It's
the story he called the sign of four weddings and
a few funeral Oh my god, except I may be
(56:03):
confusing this with my favorite nineties rom com and this
is actually the sign of four. That is correct, the
sign of form. Well, Eric was joined by a number
of other listeners. It seems this was one of our
easier ones. So we have an extra large prize wheel
(56:25):
to spin. So we'll bring it in and give it
a spin and around it goes slowing on number eighty one,
eighty one, and that looks like it is a Martin
Schwartz sw Yes, congratulations to you, Martin. We will be
(56:50):
sending you a prize in the mail, something from the
ihose vaults. And so this time around, we have a
copy of Bonnie mcbird's new book book The Serpent Under
for the winner of this canonical couplet. A jealous wife
whose charms were on the wayne endowed her rival with
(57:13):
the brand of Cain. If you know the answer to
this episode's canonical couplet, put it in an email addressed
to comment I hear of Sherlock dot com with canonical
couplet in the subject line. If you are among all
of the correct answers, and we choose your name at random,
you'll win. Good luck. Well, Bert, here we are. We've
(57:38):
done it again. Are you having a nice time at
the BSI weekend?
Speaker 3 (57:40):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (57:41):
I'm having a great time, you know, just missing you.
It's a shame that you're someplace else talking into a microphone.
Speaker 1 (57:49):
Well I am right now, but in the future I
will be with the future you on the fifteenth seventeenth.
Speaker 2 (57:55):
Yes, when you see me, let me give you a
lottery ticket. Oh no, no, we should have done that.
Speaker 1 (58:00):
Now it's too late. I hate these these split time
travel things that we're working on. Me too.
Speaker 2 (58:07):
Well, you know, no matter when you are, there you be.
Speaker 1 (58:13):
And I suppose this is the eternal being Scott Monty.
Speaker 2 (58:18):
Yeah, and I was here just a minute ago.
Speaker 1 (58:20):
I'm Bert Wolder, and together we say.
Speaker 2 (58:26):
The game games.
Speaker 1 (58:31):
Off a foot, the games of the foot.
Speaker 3 (58:41):
I'm afraid that in the pleasure of this conversation I'm
neglecting business of importance, which awaits me.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
Thank you for listening. Please be sure to join us
again for the next episode. Of I hear of Sherlock everywhere.
The first podcast us dedicated to Sherlock Holmes.
Speaker 2 (59:05):
Goodbye and good luck, and believe me to be my
dear mother. That is sincerely yours, Sherlock Holmes
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