January 30, 2025 • 56 mins
“One of the most precious public possessions of the empire” [BERY]
Joel Meadows began what eventually became Sherlock Holmes and the Empire Builders: The Gene Genie in 2002 while working on Tripwire as a quarterly print magazine.He tells us the story of how it took two decades to bring this vision to life with illustrator Andy Bennett, and what the plans are for part two of the story. The initial Kickstarter for part one was wildly successful, and the Kickstarter for the sequel is under way. The praise has been effusive:
Download [Save As] | File size: 57.3 MB, 59:21
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Joel Meadows began what eventually became Sherlock Holmes and the Empire Builders: The Gene Genie in 2002 while working on Tripwire as a quarterly print magazine.He tells us the story of how it took two decades to bring this vision to life with illustrator Andy Bennett, and what the plans are for part two of the story. The initial Kickstarter for part one was wildly successful, and the Kickstarter for the sequel is under way. The praise has been effusive:
- “A darn good romp” – Guillermo del Toro, Oscar-winning director
- “Classic Sherlock Holmes! You can smell the chimney-smoke and feel the clatter of hooves. Here’s the character we all know and love, given a fresh polish for the 21st century!” – Ian Rankin, Rebus
Download [Save As] | File size: 57.3 MB, 59:21
Listen to I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere anywhere you get podcasts
Leave I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere a five-star rating on Apple Podcasts and Spotify; listen to us wherever you listen to podcasts.
Sponsors
- Exclusive for IHOSE listeners from MX Publishing: codes for 5 free audio books.
Would you care to advertise with us? You can find more information here. Let's chat!
Links
- Sherlock Holmes and the Empire Builders: The Gene Genie (Kickstarter)
- Tripwire Magazine
- Social media links: Joel Meadows on Twitter, BlueSky, Sherlock Holmes and the Empire Builders Facebook Group, Tripwire Magazine on Facebook
- Previous episode mentioned:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Support for I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere comes from MX Publishing,
with the largest catalog of new Sherlock Holmes books in
the world. New novels, biographies, graphic novels, and short story
collections about Sherlock Holmes find them at MS publishing dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And listeners like you who support us on Patreon or
substack sign up for exclusive benefits at Patreon dot com,
slash I Hear of Sherlock or I Hear of Sherlock
dot Substack dot com.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere, Episode three hundred and four,
Sherlock Holmes and the Empire Builders.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I head a Shlockain very well since JU became as
drumming man.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
In a world where it's always eighteen ninety five. It's
I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere, a podcast for devotees of
mister Sherlock Holmes, the world's first unofficial consulting detective.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I've Heard of You Before, Holmes, the Medland Holmes, the
Busybody Homes, the scockland Yard, Jacket Office.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
The Game's afoot As we interview authors, editors, creators, and
other prominent Sherlockians on various aspects of the great detective
in popular culture.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
As we go to press, sensational developments have been reported.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
So join your hosts Scott Monty and Bert Walder as
they talk about what's new in the world of Sherlock Holmes.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
Time.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
I'm Mill Curtis.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
This is I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere. Now here are
your hosts Scott Marty and Bert Walder. Well, thank you,
Joel Curtiz. It's a pleasure to be here once again.
This is Scott Monty from I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere,
the first podcast for Sherlock Holmes Devotees, where it's always
(02:06):
eighteen ninety five. I'm Scott Monty.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I'm also Bert Wolder from the first podcast for Sherlock
Holmes Devotees. How are you, Scott?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Thank goodness, Oh, thank goodness. We build this little empire
of ours, brick by.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Brick, brick by brick, Yes, and soon we'll be colonizing
and taking over smaller podcasts and showing them the right
way to manage and to do things.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Oh. I was hoping to just kind of do the
cask of a manteado and keep us solitary and confined
in this little alphabet here.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
What's the national liqueur of Denmark? I think we should
be looking at because look, Denmark, you know, has been
really vulnerable ever since Shakespeare. I mean, look what happened
to all those kings? And so you know, to be
or not to be? I mean we let's cut to
the chase. We have the answer.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
The answer is aquavite, aqua vitai No that the aqua
vita is what kept Fu Manchu alive, water of life
as it should be. Slane Avak, Well, we want to
keep our listeners alive here and paying attention, so we
have a lovely show for you today. It's comprised of
(03:17):
a number of things, including, of course, an interview with
Joel Meadows from Sherlock Holmes and The Empire Builders the
gene Genie. We'll be talking about his graphic novel approach
there and the history of how he's gotten here, including
(03:38):
other publications and Tripwire. It's a fantastic online resource and magazine,
so stay tuned for that. We also have what do
we have? The canonical couple of quiz. We have a
copy of Sherlock Holmes and The Empire Builders available for
you if you participate in our quiz We also have
(04:01):
the lovely Madeline Kinnonez, who is back with another installment
of A Chance of Listening where she highlights some Sherlockian
podcast and tells us why it is worth listening and
what they do. And then finally, we are going to
talk about what we saw and perhaps participated in at
(04:24):
the Baker Street Irregulars Weekend earlier this month in New
York City. All that and more is just ahead. Just
a reminder, you can support the show on Patreon or
substack for as little as a dollar a month. Those
contributions give you the right to listen to the show
(04:45):
ad free, so you don't have to worry about slowing
down in your effort to consume more content about Sherlock
Holmes any way you can. Your contributions help us to
do the research, quiz prizes, together all kinds of things
that go into hosting a quality program like this, So
(05:08):
just get over to Patreon dot com, slash I Hear
of Sherlock and I Hear of Sherlock dot substack dot com.
We also have communities there where we have commentaries and
other bonus content for our community as you participate, So
check it out and see what works for you. Well, Bert,
(05:28):
are you fully recovered after the BSI weekend?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Fully fully recovered? No, no, that Oh, but I like
the glow. I like the glow to last. It was
a terrific weekend. You know, I live much more, much
closer to New York City than you do, and many
of the other hundreds of people who came to New
(05:53):
York City for the Biker Street I regulars weekend. But
I knew that I was on my way to a
special experience when I was driven into Manhattan by Oscar,
who was an Uber driver who was an aspiring actor,
a videographer and a podcaster, and we just spent the
(06:17):
whole drive talking about podcasts and video and Sherlock Holmes
and so from the moment I left my house, I
knew it was going to be a special, special couple
of days.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
And was it.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah, Well, as soon as I got into you know,
as soon as you get into the city, because I
got in on the Wednesday, you immediately bump into people
and it's just wonderful. And that is if you want
to sum up the whole weekend. It's just seeing you know,
people that I've known for a very long time, and
many people I've just met within the last couple of
months or years. But I bumped into oh boy, Rosemary
(06:54):
Herbert and my pal Michael Barton, and I remember Peter
and this was just in the Peter Blou in the
first couple of minutes, and Monica Schmidt, Matt Madeleine, you know,
just in the first maybe thirty seconds of arriving in
New York.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, and that's really what this is all about. You know,
we talk about the world of Sherlock Holmes and Sherlock
Holmes enthusiasts, and it's this coming together that really makes
a difference. And it doesn't matter who the names are,
they're going to be different for everyone who's listening to
this show. But it's it's about sharing this and having
(07:30):
that common bond. And particularly when we go to something
like the BSI Weekend, there are familiar sites, things that
we've been doing year after year, and there are also
new additions. You know, there's a wonderful exhibit at the
Grolier Club and I know you went to see this, Bert,
but the way you came back so excited about having
(07:52):
seen this exhibit made it was infectious. Why don't you
tell our listeners about what was going on at the
Grolier Club this year.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
It's the Grower Club is a you know, a private
club for book lovers. It's in you know, a little
bit north of where the the Baker Street irregulars kind
of gather in New York, but very easy to get to.
And I walked up there and the Grollier Club, though,
is open to the public even though it's a private club,
and you can see all sorts of things, so you
(08:21):
just walk in. There's no fee. And they had an exhibition,
two exhibitions actually, but the one that really stuck with me,
as you say, is the exhibition on imaginary Books. And
we'll have a link to that in the show notes.
And the good news is, folks, you can see a
lot of the exhibition online and the Growier Club website
(08:42):
and what it is. It's curated by a fellow named
read Buyers, who I happened to bump into. He wasn't
injured at the club, but he you know, explained a
good deal of it. And what he has done is
collect over one hundred, I think examples. He's created these
things working with our artists and crafts people of books,
(09:03):
imaginary books that don't really exist, but are mentioned in
fiction of all sorts. So on the one hand, from
if you read The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by
Douglas Adams, you will have read about the actual Hitchhikers
Guide to the Galaxy, which is a device, you know,
(09:23):
and this is something Adams dreamed up in the years
before kindles and so on existed. But it's there, along
with Arthur dense Towel. If you're a fan of Doctor Who,
you know about Rassalon, Well, he's got a book there
with an appropriate description of the laws of Galafray. Buy Rassalan,
(09:47):
so you can see that. And these things look absolutely authentic.
So on the one hand you have these modern things.
On the other hand, one of the great lacks of
the classical era is that there isn't more of the
right as an example of Aristotle that survived. What about
what about Aristotle on comedy? Oh, if only we could
(10:07):
have read that. Well it's there, he's produced. You know what. Now,
there's nothing really inside these things, as I understand, but
everything from and from a Sherlockian standpoint, the issue of
the Strand magazine featuring the giant rat of Sumatra Ah
is on display Holmes's monograph of the Polyphonic Motets of Lasses,
(10:32):
the books in the Peter Whimsy series by Dorothy Sayah's
written by Harriet Vane. It's just remarkable, and it's just
a lot of fun and very whimsical it is.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
And just for our supporters, our Patreon and sub stack supporters,
we have exclusive photos of some of these books, these
these fake, rare imaginary books. So if you'd like to
have a glimpse of those, just make sure that you
join us as a member. Now. We don't want to
(11:04):
go through the whole weekend and bore you line item
by line item, or even the BSI Dinner and bore
you with all of that, but it is worthy of
note a couple of things. One of our former guests
here on I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere was given an
investiture Rosemary Herbert, with whom we spoke on episode one
(11:28):
hundred and seventy three about her famous crashing of the
dinner of the Speckled Band of Boston back in the
mid nineteen seventies when they were still all male. She
assumed male costume and inveigled her way into the band,
and she was given the investiture a slim youth in
(11:50):
an ulster. Maybe worth going back and listening to her
talk with us about that and just learn a little
bit about Rosemary as well. The other thing I wanted
to mention is of the papers that were given, we're
going to try to bring one of the speakers to
(12:11):
our other podcast, to Trifles, to talk about Pinkerton's and
that is Ross Davies, who really gave a nice expose
about the Pinkerton Detective Agency and their connections both in
America and over in the UK.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Give away the game, but Ross is a delightful speaker
and that was one that particularly stood out to me.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Now you got to tell Ross, yeah, he'll be surprised.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Since you are a listener of I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere,
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(14:48):
Joel Meadows has been editor in chief of trip Wire
since nineteen ninety two. He's also a very experienced journalist
who's written about comics, film, and genre for publications like
Time Magazine, The Times Independent on Sunday, The Guardian, The
Big Issue in the North, SFX, Comic Heroes and Variety.
(15:09):
Joel is a photographer who mainly shoots portraits of creative people.
He's produced a number of photography books. On top of that,
he was the co author of Studio Space, a book
which looked at the way twenty of the world's best
comic artists and illustrators work, including Mike Minyola, Walt Simonson,
(15:32):
Frank Miller, Dave Gibbons, and Moore. In twenty nineteen, Joel
wrote Masters of Comics, another book which covered comic artists
and their workspaces. Joel Meadows, Welcome to I hear of
Sherlock everywhere.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
It is a treat. So let's begin at your very
beginning with Sherlock Holmes. How did you first meet this
iconic character?
Speaker 5 (16:02):
Well, I guess I was. I was quite young.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
I was in my I guess it was in my
sort of late teens, and I started to watch sort
of TV and film with the characters. So I remember
seeing the Jeremy Brett the Return of Sherlock Holmes on ITV,
and I admit I saw the young Cherlock Holmes slightly
later when it was on television many years later. But
you know, I encountered homes As in my sort of teens,
and you know, as the years progressed, I would watch
(16:27):
you know, film and TV and and and read you know,
homes stories and it just the character just really engaged
with me for you know, for many years now.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
M You mentioned the return, so you would have come
in during the Edward Hardwick era. Yes, that's correct, Okay, Yes,
did you go back and see the earlier ones with
David Burke?
Speaker 5 (16:49):
Yes, yes, actually I have seen some of those.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
I mean, I admit I'd probably have a preference for Hardwick,
but that might just have been because I saw those
the first time around.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
So yeah, we always remember our first well.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Exactly, Joe, when did you read the stories or when
did you get to Conan Doyle.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
It was a little bit later.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
I think it was from my twenties, so it would
have been it would have been later on, and I
dipped I read the classic, so you know, I dipped
in and read you know, the more kind of the
more famous sort of Doyle stories. But and I tried
to sort of fit in the gaps. I mean, I
I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge. I do have a
few gaps, but I definitely read them in my twenties.
And and I mean the comic goes back to the
(17:32):
early two thousands. And we developed the comic and we
didn't get any interest from the two publishers we pitched
it to, and then we put it down, and then
we picked it up again because the website, which is
also a magazine that we run a trip while we
do a thing called Lost Tales. And then my writer,
Scott Braden, said, if you've got any comic projects that
you know never saw the light of day, So I said,
(17:54):
I thought that the Homes project would be perfect. And
having discussed it after sort of fifteen year gap, I thought,
you know, maybe I should give it another go. And
then we went back and we tested the waters with
three shorts which were very well received in our magazine,
and then we decided to jump in and publish what
is now a two part sort of graphic novel story basically,
(18:15):
with the second part coming sort of later this year.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
So that first time around when the publishers were reticent
about your material, was it was it something specific with
your project? Was it that we were, say, in between
different resurgences of Holmes? What do you think it?
Speaker 5 (18:39):
I don't know. It is possible.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
I also hadn't done because I've worked as a journalist
for many years and I wasn't quite as established at
that point. I mean, admittedly we are publishing it's ourselves,
but it could be a number of different factors. It might,
as you say, have been between because you know, there's
always interesting homes. But maybe in sort of two thousand
and one when we pitched it, maybe it was one
of those periods when it was sort of a fallow
(19:00):
period for interesting homes at the time.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
And you mentioned Tripwire and yes, the Lost Tales series.
What other maybe characters or genres have been part of
that well?
Speaker 3 (19:17):
As I said, our writer Scott Brain has covered everything
from coord of Batman to you know, he's written sort
of twenty five or thirty of these. So these are
these are sort of light series that were mooted but
never came to fruition.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
So there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
There's at least sort of twenty to thirty different series
that never saw the light of day. So there's things
like a Green Lantern series and a Batman and a
Dare Devil. So there's a there's a range of them
which are available on our website. We also run them
in our magazine from time to time as well. So
it was just but, as I said, just re examining
the you know that the series made me think that
(19:51):
maybe it was time to give it another go after
such a long break, you know, with a sort of
fresh pair of eyes.
Speaker 5 (19:57):
Fifteen years later.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Joel, we've got we've got less listeners, you know, from
all around the world who were interested in graphic novels
and many other things. For those folks who don't know,
can you just talk a little bit about trip Wire,
because I know Tripwire. You know, you position Tripwire as
the genre magazine, and that's been editor in chief for
a very long time. Yeah, and Tripwire talks about graphic
(20:22):
novels and TV and film and genre and all sorts
of things. Can you just for the folks who might
not know what that is, can you talk a little
bit about it, and especially how you got into all of.
Speaker 5 (20:32):
This, Yes, with pleasure.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
It started life as a fairly basic fanzine that I
did with an ex neighbor of mine back in nineteen
ninety two, and it originally had comics and music, and
then we sort of parted company, and then we brought
in sort of TV and film and art. So we
ran a print magazine from nineteen ninety two to two
thousand and three. We took a slight break, went back
in two thousand and seven, took another slight break in
(20:57):
sort of twenty eleven, and then we went back in
twenty twenty because I missed having a print magazine, and
we also started the website in twenty fifteen. So yeah,
as you rightly say, we cover comics, film, TV, art
and illustration. So it's interviews with creators, reviews of the titles.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
And putting things into historical context as well.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
It has changed, It's become a lot more you know,
the production values have become a lot more sophisticated.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
Over the last few years. I mean I designed it myself.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
It's one hundred page full color magazine now that we
do sort three times a year, so we interview comic people,
also interview illustrators, people like Robert McGinnis who did the
Diamonds Are Forever Poster and Breakfast at Tiffany's. And guy
called Phil Hale who's done loads of sort of Stephen
King books, and he's also an artist, painter and illustrators.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
So our range of interest is quite.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Broad because I like to think the people who like
comics they like illustration as well, and obviously film and TV.
Over the last fifteen to twenty years there's been a
greater connection between that and comics, so it was a
no brainer really to cover both.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
How many writers do you have working with you on
the magazine.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
We have sort of three or four, but we have
a few others that we use occasionally as well. I
mean I designed and I edited. We have my friend
Scott Braden who writes for us, and Stephen Dalton needs
to write for Enemy, who's also written for The Guardian
and he does a TV in film stuff for us,
and my sort of second in command, Andy Coleman, sort
of the senior editor, and he writes stuff for us.
(22:28):
The last issue that we put out, which came out
last week, we had a big history of Daredevil because
it's sixty years of the characters. He wrote a history
of the character, and I did some interviews with certain
writers who worked.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
On the book.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
So we have between SAT three and six writers who
sort of well, we also have a strip section at
the back, which we've used to preview homes. I mean,
it's a wonderful vehicle to run strict content and also
to give people the flavor of the Sherlock Holmes thing, which,
as I said, is we started running it in the magazine.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
I wrote three.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Shorts before I started the script for the long story,
and I think it's great training ground because just like
you know, going back to comics, people who worked on
two thousand and eight over here, you know, you can
really hone your skills on a six or an eight
page comics story because there's no flab. You can't mess around,
there can't be any padding. You have to, you know,
(23:17):
really cut to the chase.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
Basically.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, well that is really impressive. You know, anytime these
days someone can still pull off print. We're impressed.
Speaker 5 (23:32):
Well, thank you, I miss.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
I mean, I've worked as a journalist as well, things
like newspapers and magazines, places like The Times and the
Sunday Times and Time Magazine and another place.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
I like having it. I mean, the website is fine.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
I'm not disparaging our website because obviously it serves a purpose.
But it's something about getting it, having a physical print
object in your hands.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
That it's hard to beat.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Its interesting because back on episode two hundred and six,
we spoke with Adrian Brady, of.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
Course, the editor of the show at Holmes Magazine.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
I've written a piece for them, and I've actually I'm
pitching another piece for which I think he might well
take up about the novel. It's a wonderful magazine.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
I think he does a phenomenal job.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Oh, it really is. It's very impressive. And again, he
like you came from a journalism background, and I was
going to say that if the two of you didn't
know each other, I was going to suggestion.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
You know, I am familiar with him, and as I said,
he does great work. It's a wonderful magazine for fans
of homes, and I'd recommend it if any of your
listeners haven't seen the magazine is well recommended.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yes, it is, so, Joel, Is this project something I
mean you mentioned you know, I have been working on
this for a long time. Is this something that you
and Andy have been working on together for a long
time or when did.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Any Yes, I mean basically I had another artist on
board which didn't quite work out for a number of
different reasons, and I was recommended to Andy from a
mutual friend and we just got chatting and we created
an eight page short in our proposal, which looks quite
sort of primitive now and it doesn't quite work, but
it's an interesting artifact to look at considering sort of
(25:09):
the history of the series. And then basically round about
let me get this right, about fifteen, it's about twenty
seventeen or eighteen. I started to think about what we
could do, how we could get people into the world,
how we could get readers interested into the world that
I've created, you know, with Andy. And so the three
shorts are you know, one deals with Holmes returning to
(25:30):
Baker Street because one of the mcguffins of this story
is that Holmes has lost the house. I mean, basically
he lost the house because he didn't. The other thing
about this story is it does blur into reality and
the reason why he lost the house is because he
didn't solve the Jack the Ripper murders, and so his
reputation was basically not what it was, and so you know,
(25:52):
people stopped hiring him as a detective, and so he
loses the house and so he's had to move somewhere else.
So the first story is about returning to Baker Street
to pick up an object, and then the other two stories.
One is a chase between a new character I've created.
He was this girkher agent who figures quite prominently in
the comic, so he's chasing his victim. And then the
(26:13):
third story is because I've got Oswald Moseley, who was
the well known sort of right wing sort of British
neo Nazi, and he's basically the prime.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
Minister in this story.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
So the third story is the secret Files of Oswill Moseley,
which is basically him looking sort of cursing people like
Holmes and his compatriots. But you know, I really enjoyed
doing those and they fitted well, and I just thought
it was time to jump in and do the longer story.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Well, I mean it's brilliant. You know what you've what
you've brought together here, Holmes. You know the impact of
not solving the Ripper murders. Going back to Baker Street Chase.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
And it also has stuff to do with the underraveling
of the DNA helix because you might be aware of
this because of Watson and Craik, who were the two
scientists unraveled. So it just seems it just it just
seemed like a fortuitous, you know, occasion. It just seems
like synchronicity, I guess is the words that we can have.
It's a different Watson, but you know, it's it seems
(27:13):
to work well, and it's and it's you know, the DNA.
I'm not a scientist, and my knowledge of science is
quite limited, but it just seemed to be it seems
to it seemed to fit in really nicely because it was,
you know, it was such a major thing in sort
of twentieth century history. And and I said, blowing the
lines between the fictional world that Homes.
Speaker 5 (27:31):
In habits and having real life.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Figures lends it an extra sort of tone that other
homes stories don't.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I like to think, well, yes, absolutely. And and you know,
with the the tie, this is volume one, this is
the gene Jessy And so we're not giving away any
spoilers by talking about DNA. But one of the things
I was delighted, many delighted things to see in this
is Resamond Franklin. You know you've put right again.
Speaker 5 (27:58):
I wanted a ground I wanted to ground it in reality.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
I wanted to have a prominent female She doesn't have
a major role, but you know, I talked to a
friend of mine who's written about science, so I worked
with it guinnesswel Records, and I said, who would you
pick as a prominent real life female scientist who had
a pivotal role.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
Admittedly this is slightly earlier.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Than when she was actually in you know, real history,
but you know, this is a fictional story, so I'm
playing a little fast and loose with some of the facts. Anyway,
I mean, it wasn't it wasn't Dr Watson obviously who
unraveled the DNA. It was the other Watson. But and
I just thought it would be fun to have her
in there so.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Well, and to me, that is where something like this
and and and similar things. I mean, we saw Nicholas
Meyer do this with the seven percent solution bringing I'm.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Trying to write an interview with him, which hasn't quite
happened for a number of different reasons. And also he's
in La So obviously because of the horrible things of
the fires, it's not quite it's not quite the right
time at the moment.
Speaker 5 (28:58):
If I'm hoping picked that.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Time over the weekend. So if there's any way we
can help put you in touch with him and make I.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Would love to about it. About his home's career, sure,
phenomenal career writing. You know Holmes books and I have
read seven Percent Solution. I keep meanings to pick up
the others because he is he's a great writer. And again,
just like you know our story, he uses people like
Freud and real historical figures because I think it gives
it a very different flavor. It grounds it in reality,
(29:25):
but it makes it fantastical at the same time.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Well that's that's just it. That That was what I
was going to ask you about, is you know, taking
reality and you know, morphing that into this other world,
a world that ostensibly started in the fictional realm. But
Conan Doyle was so convincing at the time people thought
that Sherlock Holmes walked among them. So I talk to
(29:49):
us a little bit about the challenges looking at this
from a historical historical perspective and how you're able to
draw these threads together so convincingly.
Speaker 5 (30:00):
Well, there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
I mean, it's crazy to fall into a rabbit hole
with research, you know, because we are I think the
difficult thing is, you know, before this started, I didn't
have any structure to play with. And the thing about
this is that you could be because I've set my
own parameters. There's basically you can have anything. You know,
you could think about what happened during these periods and
(30:21):
you can think, you know, you could you could draw
on anything at all. But I just thought I thought
Mosley was a good figure because he.
Speaker 5 (30:27):
Was a rather infamous figure.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
And you know, and the second book has got George
the Fifth in this as well, because I wanted to
touch on the royal family.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
And I mean this is I mean, I remember when the.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Pennyworth series which spun off ouse as the Batman that
HBO did, which was kind of what happened, if you know,
if Pennyworth occupied a slightly different space. So in this
it's almost like taking a step off the pavement and
going in a slightly different direction to what happened in reality.
So you know, with this as well, I mean Second
World War isn't it's not likely to happen in this world.
(31:00):
There was the First World War, but there's that period
where everything changed, and even things like the church. There's
I think it's called White Friars, there's a church in
near Saint Paul's which has a bomb during the Second
World War, but at this point it's slightly earlier, so
it's intact. So the artists had to have a look
at some old illustrations of the church to basically draw
(31:20):
drawers as if it was, you know, intact. But it
has been fascinating to go in and you know, and
it's tough because it's a home story, but there are
a hell of a lot of supporting characters. So my
rariri was to go, people are going to go this
isn't really a home story because you've got you've got
the Girkher agent, you've got Watson, you've got Watson's son
(31:41):
in the second book, You've got you know, you've got
five or six, got Franklin Miller, who is the Mohawk
because the Mohawks were a regency gang in London in
the eighteenth century. Caused all manner of havoc basically, and
I thought he'd be an interesting character to include into
the mix.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
So talk to us a little bit about the Kickstarter
project here, because what I can tell by looking at
it is we are anticipating volume two at some point
throughout this year. But how have you set things up
and how can people get involved?
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Well, basically, we've our first campaign through another platform called
zoop which is just purely comics, but I decided to
do this one on Kickstarter because you get there are
more eyes and it's not as it's not a criticism
of zoo because zop is they were very helpful and
it was a great crowdfunding platform.
Speaker 5 (32:35):
But we did the first book.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
It was originally going to be a single volume, but
there was a so much plot that I said to
the artist, I'd like to split this. So the first
volume did really well. So the second volume will be
out so a round about May or June time. So
it's going to be around about ninety six pages of story,
and there's going to be lots of extra material like
character sketches.
Speaker 5 (32:56):
They're going to be some of my script pages.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
We've commissioned some original pieces as well, some pin ups
from some certain artists. So we've got two different covers
for the second book, like we did with the first one.
We've got pinups from a guy called Tom Koker, who's
work with sort of DC and Image. A guy called
George Pratts who's an amazing painter who used to be
a traditional comic artist but he now teaches illustration down
at the Ringling School in Florida. So yeah, it's on
(33:19):
Kickstarter at the moment, it's we've extended. The campaign ended
on the thirteenth of December, but the kickstars have produced
thing called late pledges, which means that people can continue
to support it until the people who run the campaign
decide to stop it. So it's currently available. We've got
just under a month left. People can still grab the book.
There's two incredible covers from one from a guy called
(33:40):
Dan Panosi and who's an American comic artist who's worked
for DC and Marvel and everybody's own covers for con
Nan and these are original. Another British artist called Fraser Irving,
who's been around for years, worked at two thousand and
eight and Batman. And you know the nice thing about this,
we're also offering paperbacks, so we have a recap in
the second book where people want to read the first book.
We're making an available in paperback for the first time,
(34:02):
and we're doing a new printing of the hardback of
the first volume, offfering this in payback too, So there's
there's a lot of options, and there's also a digital
so if people don't want a hardback, if they just
want the book, you know, there's just like there's a
more reasonable, you know, way of picking it up.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah, there literally is something for everyone.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
So I would I would like to think.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
So this is marvelous, Joe.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
I've enjoyed it because it's you know, the journalism, moving
from journalism to writing was a bit daunting, but it's
it's been very satisfying, Joe.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
What you know, you talk about moving from journalism to writing,
What was your entry point as a as a young
person into this. What were the first comics that you
looked at? When did when did this man really imprint
itself on you?
Speaker 5 (34:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (34:52):
I mean, basically I blame my brother for this because
he had he had a friend who was in hospital,
and he start he was reading loads of comics, you know,
sort of Superman comics and things, and so he got
my brother into it, and my brother got me into it,
so it was I read things like New Teen Titans
and Superman in DC Comics resents. But I also read
Steve Goerbers How the Duck, which is a very strange,
(35:14):
very surreal comic, when I was about eight or nine
years old, which is a heavily satirical comic.
Speaker 5 (35:21):
So I was quite young when I got into comics.
It was. And also because there.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
You can't get them here, but they're not quite as
easy to get as easy now, but when I was
a kid, they were harder to get than they are
in the States, so you really had to you had
to hunt them down over here.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I was.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
So it must be wonderful to be wrapping this project up.
What's next on your horizon?
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Well, actually, I'm planning a novella which bridges the gap
between basically the Cannon of Doyle's stories and the first
graphic novel. So basically Holmes, as I said, Holmes lost
the house in Baker Streets and said that the novella
deals with him living homeless on the streets. So so
homes is homeless, and so his reputation is sort of
(36:10):
in tatus, and he's trying to find that case that
will get him sort of back on his feet. So
that's that sort of one hundred and fifty odd page
pros novella which I'm going to be launching next basically
probably on.
Speaker 5 (36:22):
Kickstarter as well.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
And I'm also I'm actually thinking about a third comic
project as well, which will be a second actually because
this is obviously a two parties so which will be
featuring a prominent adversary of Homes but not Moriarty, and
another prominent adversary of Homes who I think I won't
mention my name because I like to keep a little
bit of a secret hunder wraps, okay, but it's a
(36:45):
character I think it's very interesting who would fit in
very well with the world that we've created here.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
So as you are looking to spec out that novella
and get it ready for publication, I hope you're going
to call it Sherlock Homeless.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
Well actually going to be called down and Out in London.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Obviously to mister all Well, which I thought would be
I thought that would be appropriate.
Speaker 6 (37:12):
Yes, but I'm.
Speaker 5 (37:15):
Looking forward to getting into it.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
I mean, it is it is daunting, you know, to
you know, the standing on the shoulders of giants. Obviously,
Doyle was a great writer, and he created this wonderfully
rich world, which is you know, much loved by people
around the world. So I really I was a little
bit daunted, but you know, because I've I've already written
a volume already, and I feel like I'm getting a
(37:37):
good feel as to what our take is. You know,
it's a different take. You know, it isn't It isn't
strickly speaking, a detective story. I mean, the second book
might well be more of a detective story, and actually
the novelop might be more of a detective story. But
you know, this is the comic, as it's down to
the moment, is more of a kind of sci fi
steampunk adventure basically. So it's you know what happens, you know,
(37:59):
if Holmes is in a world that he doesn't really
fit in, you know, with a man who is this
kind of monstrous figure, you know, ruling the country, and
he has to use all of his wits, and he's
not physically as strong as he was because he's a
slightly he's an older man now, so he has to
rely on the skills of others to assist him.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Talk to us a little bit about the difference from
your perspective in creating a novella versus working on a graphic.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Novel, well, obviously it's different. I mean, it's it's all
down to me because it's pros. You know, the comic
is very much you know, Andy Bennett's efforts are on
monumental and you know, without his incredible art, he wouldn't
have any of the impact. You know, with this is
it's all down to me, you know, if it stands
or falls on the quality of my writing and also
(38:48):
the structure and the plots. So it's it's it's a
slightly different beast. It has to be an enjoyable story,
and I wanted to tap into some of the things.
I want to answer some of the questions that have
been thrown up by you know, the first the graphic
novels that people have read to fill in the gaps,
and I just.
Speaker 5 (39:04):
I've written a little bit of prose.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
I mean, there was a in the the first graphic
novel there's a short which focused on one of the
characters that I really enjoyed it, which is a two
thousand word pros short, and I kind of feel like
I'm ready to write something a little bit longer and
I'm looking forward to really get I made. I haven't
properly started it because I'm still working through the graphic novel,
(39:26):
but I'm very good at multitasking.
Speaker 5 (39:28):
So but no, it is it's a different beast.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
But you know, I'd like to think that it's hopefully
enjoyable in its own way as the comic, and it
hits in and hopefully it will fill in the gaps
and you know, people who enjoyed the comic will hopefully
enjoy the prose story as well, because it's it's a
similar approach. I mean, the homes, the slightly kind of
crotchety homes that I have created, it's going to be
(39:53):
very much in evidence here. But he's going to be
on the very much on the back foot. You know,
he's not going to have the he's going to you know,
he's living in a in a you know, an environment
that he's not comfortable in and he's not his reputation
is not what it was, so he has to readjust
to a slightly different lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Well, it certainly sounds like you've got hidden by the bug.
Speaker 5 (40:13):
Oh I have. I have. I've always been a huge fan.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
And another thing about the character is you know, just
like James Bond, just like Batman, just like Scarlet Pimpernel.
These are all characters that are iconic, but they are
flexible enough that there are so many, you know, different
takes that people can you know, so many different approaches
that people can can take to put their own spin
on these creations. And that's what's so wonderful, that's there's
(40:39):
such of rich characters.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Yeah, you ever consider taking them out of their timeline
or out of their usual geography or is Sherlock Holms
in London and late Victorian era just where you want
to see him?
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Well, I mean, he's obviously an Edwardian in this story
all fictional wards and but possibly, I mean it's I wouldn't.
Speaker 5 (41:02):
I wouldn't rule it out.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
I mean, I guess it could work in a in
another setting, I wouldn't.
Speaker 5 (41:07):
I wouldn't say no.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
But at the moment, I'm just focusing my attention because
I feel like he's he does fit that best. I mean,
obviously there have been you know, loads of there's been
loads of films and TV where they take him out
and you know, the fish House of Water thing does
work well. But as I wouldn't I wouldn't say never,
but but not currently.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Yeah, wonderful. So where either other than trip Wire or
a Kickstarter which we will have links to these in
the show notes. Is there any other place where people
can follow you or find you or or the team?
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Well, I mean, I'm on, i am on the various
social media platforms. I am on i am on the
I'm on Blue Sky, and I'm on Twitter, and i'm
we have a Facebook. We have a Sherlock Holmes Empire
Builders group on Facebook. We also have a trip Wire
group also on Facebook. So if people so, you know,
for me by name, they should find me on the
(42:04):
various social media platforms.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Okay, well, we will make sure that we get those
in the show notes. Very much wonderful, Joel Meadows any
any last minute words of wisdom, encouragement, et cetera for
all the listeners out there.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Well, I mean we have, We've We've managed to accumulate
a lot of incredible quotes from people about homes, and
I think I would be I would be remiss if
I didn't at least share a couple. So I'm going
to say the first one is from in ranking Creative
Rebus classic Sherlock Holmes. You can smell the chimney smoke
(42:44):
and feel the classic class of who's Here's the character
we all known love, given a fresh polish for the
twenty first century.
Speaker 5 (42:50):
So that's and I'm very, very proud. Obviously, that's incredible.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
I mean, and I have a very from Germa del Toro,
who described it as don good romp. So we've got
some pretty and we've got a lot of love for
this book. And then from Michael Molcock, a fantasy legend.
When you think there is nothing more to be said
or done with Sherlock Holmes, along comes Meadows and Bennett
to breathe fresh life into the great detective brother.
Speaker 5 (43:14):
I'm thoroughly enjoying this original tale.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
And I might give you one more quote from Jeff Lowe,
who's worked on television but also in comics on Batman, The.
Speaker 5 (43:22):
Long Halloween and The Last Halloween. The game is indeed
a foot.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
It's no small feet to take on the works of
Conan Doyle, and yet Joel and Andy have done a
neat job of it. Holmes feels quite like the Sherlock
we know and love, except he's found himself out of
his element. Meanwhile, like every great heroic story, there's a
villain who where you just have to read it for yourself.
Gorgeous art work by Andy that captures the mood and
spirits of Joel's page turner.
Speaker 5 (43:44):
Enjoy it all.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
So yes, I think that's that's a few little snippets
for people to consider. But I'd like to think that
if we've managed to if we manage to attract that
sort of caliber of fans, I'd like to think that
some of your listeners will definitely appeal to some of them.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Excellent well Sherlock Holmes and the Empire Builders The gene
Genie by Joel Meadows and Andy Bennett. Look for it
on Kickstarter, and certainly check out everything that trip Wire
has to offer. Maybe even subscribe to their print magazine
whatever floats your boat. As they say, Joel, thank you
(44:21):
so much for joining us here on out here of
Sherlock Everywhere.
Speaker 5 (44:24):
Thank you, it's been my pleasure. Thank you for having
me on your show. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
What a terrific idea you know, and what's what he's
put together here. But the couple of the two things
that really stand out to me is, first of all,
the enthusiasm from Guillermo del Toro. I mean, it's not
every project like this that gets a rave from an
Oscar winner Oscar winning director and filmmaker. But also the story,
(45:04):
you know, Watson leaves Holmes to help Francis Crick unravel
the DNA helix and finds himself working for the most
evil man in England. I mean, it's just terrific and
it's great to hear his enthusiasm for this and the
evolution of it, you know, the novella to come. It's
(45:25):
really something.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah, it really is. And you know, as much as
we've had other graphic novel artists and writers on the
show or that we say feature regularly, and you know,
of course we talked to Joanna Draper Carlson from Sherlock
Holmes Comics dot com. There doesn't seem to be any
(45:51):
two projects like this that are the same. They all
have a unique angle on them, certainly unique art. And
I love the way that Joel talked about the different
Kickstarter tears and selections. There is literally something for everyone
(46:11):
in these kinds of offerings. Now, before we launch into
a chance of listening this time, I oh, well, both
our listeners and Madeleine An apology. It seems that in
my rush to get to New York, I grabbed the
wrong file and dropped it into the last episode, so
(46:32):
you had a repeat of the previous chance of listening
with Madeline, when she had gone to such great lengths
to prepare her correspondence with us and to prepare this
episode so it would meld perfectly with the goings on
at the BSI weekend. So, Madeleine, I'm sorry that the
timing doesn't work out here, but it's still just as charming.
(46:55):
So we'd like to give you a chance. It's a
chance of listening with your correspondent, Madeline kim Yonez.
Speaker 6 (47:07):
Hello everyone, I'm Maddelin Kiyanis and live from New York.
It's ash Wednesday. Sorry, I've always wanted to do that. Okay,
I am live in New York when this episode will drop,
but it's not live. I can imagine that would be
(47:27):
a tricky I HOS episode to pull off. I am
instead coming to you from the past to tell you
about a wonderful little podcast called Talk About Sherlock. Talk
About Sherlock is a solo adventure by Swedish Sherlockian scholar
Matthias Bostrom. Now, if you're familiar with Matthias's work, you
(47:47):
know he is always intelligent, thoughtful, and charming, and he
always has something interesting to say, so of course his
podcast is no different. Each episode is no longer than
half an hour, and unfortunately there are only eight episodes.
One can only imagine that editing a certain book series
cut in the way of podcasting. Each episode dives into
(48:10):
a different Sherilokian or Doilian topic or moment. The very
first episode is an account of how the entertainment media
might have hurt the chances of the twenty eighteen film
Holmes and Watson, Yes, the Will Ferrell movie. Do not
skip this episode. Matthias does a deep dive into the
(48:32):
online articles covering the film's box office performance and then
presents what I think is a compelling argument for why
even a movie like Holmes and Watson is important in
the grand scheme of things. So that is actually in
my episode recommendation. Start with the first episode, and heck,
listen to the whole thing. Like I said, it's eight episodes,
(48:54):
it's under four hours of audio content, so it's really
easy to get through and a pleasure to listen to,
and that's all I've got for this BSI weekend at
the moment, see y'all around Manhattan.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
Oh that's terrific.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
Yeah, I'm sorry we missed that the last time around,
but it's just as charming either way. And I suppose
we won't be seeing you around Manhattan currently pattling unless
you've made it back east.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
Yeah. How interesting? You know a reference to Holmes and
Watson with Will Farrell. Well, I think she really frames
that up very well.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
And speaking of Holmes and Watson, you will want to
check out the bonus content for this episode of our
News of this Month. It's a new feature that we
have just for our supporters. We're gonna give you a
few minutes of Sherlockian news that you can use and
hopefully it's something that will catch on. So check that
(50:04):
out over on Patreon or sub stack. Okay, it's time
for everyone's favorite with this show. It's canonical couplet, where
we give you two lines of poetry and ask you
to identify the Sherlock home story that we are talking about.
(50:29):
The Last time around these parts, we left you with
this clue. A jealous wife whose charms were on the
Wayne endowed her rival with the brand of Cain. Oh Bert,
do you know do you know which Sherlock Home story
we're talking about?
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Of course, of course, of course, of course that's the
case where a great US senator who's made a lot
of money mining gold takes his beautiful governess. He's fallen
in love with this beautiful woman, and he takes her
to a murderous dentist. And that's the case Watson called
the problem of the sore Bridge.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
Eyoy, I saw that one coming and I still couldn't
dodge that bullet, much like Maria Gibson. Okay, yeah, bang, hey,
you know I was. I've been reading the the book
by Frank Case, Tales of a Wayward Inn.
Speaker 5 (51:32):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
Great Frank Case was, of course the owner of the
Algonquin Hotel where we used to have where we used
to stay during the BSI weekend. And he realized, and
I can't remember who gave him this idea, it was
somebody that was in the restaurant there who wanted to
tell a joke about a gun. And he said, bang, oh,
(51:59):
that sounds like a speaking of guns, and he would
launch into his joke. So there are numerous instances in
various chapters where Case says, bang, oh, that sounds like
a gun, and then he's off to a new topic.
He uses that as a paragraph break of.
Speaker 2 (52:16):
Sorts, and try it's a charming book. I'm so glad you're.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
Reading it, really is. I'm really enjoying it. But in
that case, we would like to turn our attention to
Eric Deckers, who gave us his usual contribution Eureka, I've
solved it. Probably it's the story of the time when Watson,
who was between wives at the time, engaged in a
(52:42):
torrid love affair with a housewife in Iowa, even while
Holmes was trying to clear a local babysitter of murder.
It's the story Watson called the problem of the Bridges
of Madison County. Although that's a pretty big stretch even
for me, so it's more likely the problem of Thorbridge.
(53:07):
There you go, Eric, you you finally came came around
to it. That is correct. Well, we have a number
of people who also joined you in that answer. So
we're going to bring out the prize wheel and give
it a spear. It goes around and lands on number
(53:31):
eighty two. Eighty two. That's a high one, and that
looks like it's would you look at that? It's Eric
Deckers himself.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
Eric.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Congratulations, we have a copy of The Serpent under Bonnie
mcbird's latest Sherlock Holmes book coming to you, so thank
you for that. Well, this time around we have another
canonical couplet clue. Would you like to join Eric and
try to win a prize? It's a copy of Sherlock
(54:07):
Holmes and the Empire Builders. Get ready. The cigarettes were
by Ionides. Holmes settled this one with the utmost ease.
If you know the answer to this canonical couplet, put
it in an email just to comment and I hear
at Sherlock dot com with canonical couplet in the subject line.
(54:30):
If your answer is among all of the correct ones,
and you choose, and we choose your name of random,
you'll win. Good luck, goodness, I haven't gotten tongue tied
on that one in quite a while.
Speaker 4 (54:43):
No, no, no, it happens, it does great.
Speaker 6 (54:48):
Well.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
This is as always lovely way to round out January
with you. The Earth's longest month, I think has to
do with the rotation of the Earth, I believe, sir.
Now it's it's still dark, it's thirty one days, it's
the new year. It's all kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (55:09):
That is, all kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
I couldn't imagine spending it with a more delightful individual.
Speaker 2 (55:15):
Well, I'm so sorry to hear that. What a limited
acquaintanceship you must have with people. But I'm happy if
I can fill that small role. I'm happy, well if
I can sing those songs, as Jolson says, I could
sing those popular songs, and I'm happy.
Speaker 1 (55:33):
Well, this is the always happy Scott Monty.
Speaker 2 (55:37):
And I'm the perpetually cheerful.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
Bertwolder, and together we say the games.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
Of a foot.
Speaker 5 (55:49):
But the games and a foot.
Speaker 1 (55:58):
I'm afraid that in the place to this conversation, I
am neglecting business of importance which awaits me.
Speaker 4 (56:08):
Thank you for listening. Please be sure to join us
again for the next episode of I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere,
the first podcast dedicated to Sherlock Holmes.
Speaker 2 (56:22):
Goodbye and good luck, and believe me to be my
dear Fema. That is Sinceni yours, Sherlock Holmes
Support for I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere comes from MX Publishing,
with the largest catalog of new Sherlock Holmes books in
the world. New novels, biographies, graphic novels, and short story
collections about Sherlock Holmes find them at MS publishing dot com.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And listeners like you who support us on Patreon or
substack sign up for exclusive benefits at Patreon dot com,
slash I Hear of Sherlock or I Hear of Sherlock
dot Substack dot com.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere, Episode three hundred and four,
Sherlock Holmes and the Empire Builders.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I head a Shlockain very well since JU became as
drumming man.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
In a world where it's always eighteen ninety five. It's
I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere, a podcast for devotees of
mister Sherlock Holmes, the world's first unofficial consulting detective.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
I've Heard of You Before, Holmes, the Medland Holmes, the
Busybody Homes, the scockland Yard, Jacket Office.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
The Game's afoot As we interview authors, editors, creators, and
other prominent Sherlockians on various aspects of the great detective
in popular culture.
Speaker 4 (01:23):
As we go to press, sensational developments have been reported.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
So join your hosts Scott Monty and Bert Walder as
they talk about what's new in the world of Sherlock Holmes.
Speaker 5 (01:39):
Time.
Speaker 4 (01:42):
I'm Mill Curtis.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
This is I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere. Now here are
your hosts Scott Marty and Bert Walder. Well, thank you,
Joel Curtiz. It's a pleasure to be here once again.
This is Scott Monty from I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere,
the first podcast for Sherlock Holmes Devotees, where it's always
(02:06):
eighteen ninety five. I'm Scott Monty.
Speaker 2 (02:09):
I'm also Bert Wolder from the first podcast for Sherlock
Holmes Devotees. How are you, Scott?
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Thank goodness, Oh, thank goodness. We build this little empire
of ours, brick by.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Brick, brick by brick, Yes, and soon we'll be colonizing
and taking over smaller podcasts and showing them the right
way to manage and to do things.
Speaker 1 (02:31):
Oh. I was hoping to just kind of do the
cask of a manteado and keep us solitary and confined
in this little alphabet here.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
What's the national liqueur of Denmark? I think we should
be looking at because look, Denmark, you know, has been
really vulnerable ever since Shakespeare. I mean, look what happened
to all those kings? And so you know, to be
or not to be? I mean we let's cut to
the chase. We have the answer.
Speaker 1 (02:57):
The answer is aquavite, aqua vitai No that the aqua
vita is what kept Fu Manchu alive, water of life
as it should be. Slane Avak, Well, we want to
keep our listeners alive here and paying attention, so we
have a lovely show for you today. It's comprised of
(03:17):
a number of things, including, of course, an interview with
Joel Meadows from Sherlock Holmes and The Empire Builders the
gene Genie. We'll be talking about his graphic novel approach
there and the history of how he's gotten here, including
(03:38):
other publications and Tripwire. It's a fantastic online resource and magazine,
so stay tuned for that. We also have what do
we have? The canonical couple of quiz. We have a
copy of Sherlock Holmes and The Empire Builders available for
you if you participate in our quiz We also have
(04:01):
the lovely Madeline Kinnonez, who is back with another installment
of A Chance of Listening where she highlights some Sherlockian
podcast and tells us why it is worth listening and
what they do. And then finally, we are going to
talk about what we saw and perhaps participated in at
(04:24):
the Baker Street Irregulars Weekend earlier this month in New
York City. All that and more is just ahead. Just
a reminder, you can support the show on Patreon or
substack for as little as a dollar a month. Those
contributions give you the right to listen to the show
(04:45):
ad free, so you don't have to worry about slowing
down in your effort to consume more content about Sherlock
Holmes any way you can. Your contributions help us to
do the research, quiz prizes, together all kinds of things
that go into hosting a quality program like this, So
(05:08):
just get over to Patreon dot com, slash I Hear
of Sherlock and I Hear of Sherlock dot substack dot com.
We also have communities there where we have commentaries and
other bonus content for our community as you participate, So
check it out and see what works for you. Well, Bert,
(05:28):
are you fully recovered after the BSI weekend?
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Fully fully recovered? No, no, that Oh, but I like
the glow. I like the glow to last. It was
a terrific weekend. You know, I live much more, much
closer to New York City than you do, and many
of the other hundreds of people who came to New
(05:53):
York City for the Biker Street I regulars weekend. But
I knew that I was on my way to a
special experience when I was driven into Manhattan by Oscar,
who was an Uber driver who was an aspiring actor,
a videographer and a podcaster, and we just spent the
(06:17):
whole drive talking about podcasts and video and Sherlock Holmes
and so from the moment I left my house, I
knew it was going to be a special, special couple
of days.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
And was it.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
Yeah, Well, as soon as I got into you know,
as soon as you get into the city, because I
got in on the Wednesday, you immediately bump into people
and it's just wonderful. And that is if you want
to sum up the whole weekend. It's just seeing you know,
people that I've known for a very long time, and
many people I've just met within the last couple of
months or years. But I bumped into oh boy, Rosemary
(06:54):
Herbert and my pal Michael Barton, and I remember Peter
and this was just in the Peter Blou in the
first couple of minutes, and Monica Schmidt, Matt Madeleine, you know,
just in the first maybe thirty seconds of arriving in
New York.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Yeah, and that's really what this is all about. You know,
we talk about the world of Sherlock Holmes and Sherlock
Holmes enthusiasts, and it's this coming together that really makes
a difference. And it doesn't matter who the names are,
they're going to be different for everyone who's listening to
this show. But it's it's about sharing this and having
(07:30):
that common bond. And particularly when we go to something
like the BSI Weekend, there are familiar sites, things that
we've been doing year after year, and there are also
new additions. You know, there's a wonderful exhibit at the
Grolier Club and I know you went to see this, Bert,
but the way you came back so excited about having
(07:52):
seen this exhibit made it was infectious. Why don't you
tell our listeners about what was going on at the
Grolier Club this year.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
It's the Grower Club is a you know, a private
club for book lovers. It's in you know, a little
bit north of where the the Baker Street irregulars kind
of gather in New York, but very easy to get to.
And I walked up there and the Grollier Club, though,
is open to the public even though it's a private club,
and you can see all sorts of things, so you
(08:21):
just walk in. There's no fee. And they had an exhibition,
two exhibitions actually, but the one that really stuck with me,
as you say, is the exhibition on imaginary Books. And
we'll have a link to that in the show notes.
And the good news is, folks, you can see a
lot of the exhibition online and the Growier Club website
(08:42):
and what it is. It's curated by a fellow named
read Buyers, who I happened to bump into. He wasn't
injured at the club, but he you know, explained a
good deal of it. And what he has done is
collect over one hundred, I think examples. He's created these
things working with our artists and crafts people of books,
(09:03):
imaginary books that don't really exist, but are mentioned in
fiction of all sorts. So on the one hand, from
if you read The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by
Douglas Adams, you will have read about the actual Hitchhikers
Guide to the Galaxy, which is a device, you know,
(09:23):
and this is something Adams dreamed up in the years
before kindles and so on existed. But it's there, along
with Arthur dense Towel. If you're a fan of Doctor Who,
you know about Rassalon, Well, he's got a book there
with an appropriate description of the laws of Galafray. Buy Rassalan,
(09:47):
so you can see that. And these things look absolutely authentic.
So on the one hand you have these modern things.
On the other hand, one of the great lacks of
the classical era is that there isn't more of the
right as an example of Aristotle that survived. What about
what about Aristotle on comedy? Oh, if only we could
(10:07):
have read that. Well it's there, he's produced. You know what. Now,
there's nothing really inside these things, as I understand, but
everything from and from a Sherlockian standpoint, the issue of
the Strand magazine featuring the giant rat of Sumatra Ah
is on display Holmes's monograph of the Polyphonic Motets of Lasses,
(10:32):
the books in the Peter Whimsy series by Dorothy Sayah's
written by Harriet Vane. It's just remarkable, and it's just
a lot of fun and very whimsical it is.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
And just for our supporters, our Patreon and sub stack supporters,
we have exclusive photos of some of these books, these
these fake, rare imaginary books. So if you'd like to
have a glimpse of those, just make sure that you
join us as a member. Now. We don't want to
(11:04):
go through the whole weekend and bore you line item
by line item, or even the BSI Dinner and bore
you with all of that, but it is worthy of
note a couple of things. One of our former guests
here on I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere was given an
investiture Rosemary Herbert, with whom we spoke on episode one
(11:28):
hundred and seventy three about her famous crashing of the
dinner of the Speckled Band of Boston back in the
mid nineteen seventies when they were still all male. She
assumed male costume and inveigled her way into the band,
and she was given the investiture a slim youth in
(11:50):
an ulster. Maybe worth going back and listening to her
talk with us about that and just learn a little
bit about Rosemary as well. The other thing I wanted
to mention is of the papers that were given, we're
going to try to bring one of the speakers to
(12:11):
our other podcast, to Trifles, to talk about Pinkerton's and
that is Ross Davies, who really gave a nice expose
about the Pinkerton Detective Agency and their connections both in
America and over in the UK.
Speaker 5 (12:28):
I don't want to.
Speaker 1 (12:29):
Give away the game, but Ross is a delightful speaker
and that was one that particularly stood out to me.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
Now you got to tell Ross, yeah, he'll be surprised.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
Since you are a listener of I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere,
we can be fairly certain that you enjoy audio. And
if you enjoy audio as it relates to Sherlock Holmes,
then guess what you are in luck. Our friends at
MX Publishing have over three hundred and ninety books that
(13:06):
are available on Audible as part of the MX Publishing platform,
and we here at I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere have
a code to share with you that you can claim
four five free audio books. All you have to do
is follow the link in the show notes under our
(13:28):
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Selected Cases of Doctor Watson by Martin Daly narrated by
(13:49):
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(14:10):
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free codes. We hope you appreciate this free offer from
MX Publishing, our longtime sponsor and friend of the program.
Be sure to visit their entire website at mxpublishing dot com.
(14:48):
Joel Meadows has been editor in chief of trip Wire
since nineteen ninety two. He's also a very experienced journalist
who's written about comics, film, and genre for publications like
Time Magazine, The Times Independent on Sunday, The Guardian, The
Big Issue in the North, SFX, Comic Heroes and Variety.
(15:09):
Joel is a photographer who mainly shoots portraits of creative people.
He's produced a number of photography books. On top of that,
he was the co author of Studio Space, a book
which looked at the way twenty of the world's best
comic artists and illustrators work, including Mike Minyola, Walt Simonson,
(15:32):
Frank Miller, Dave Gibbons, and Moore. In twenty nineteen, Joel
wrote Masters of Comics, another book which covered comic artists
and their workspaces. Joel Meadows, Welcome to I hear of
Sherlock everywhere.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
It is a treat. So let's begin at your very
beginning with Sherlock Holmes. How did you first meet this
iconic character?
Speaker 5 (16:02):
Well, I guess I was. I was quite young.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
I was in my I guess it was in my
sort of late teens, and I started to watch sort
of TV and film with the characters. So I remember
seeing the Jeremy Brett the Return of Sherlock Holmes on ITV,
and I admit I saw the young Cherlock Holmes slightly
later when it was on television many years later. But
you know, I encountered homes As in my sort of teens,
and you know, as the years progressed, I would watch
(16:27):
you know, film and TV and and and read you know,
homes stories and it just the character just really engaged
with me for you know, for many years now.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
M You mentioned the return, so you would have come
in during the Edward Hardwick era. Yes, that's correct, Okay, Yes,
did you go back and see the earlier ones with
David Burke?
Speaker 5 (16:49):
Yes, yes, actually I have seen some of those.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
I mean, I admit I'd probably have a preference for Hardwick,
but that might just have been because I saw those
the first time around.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
So yeah, we always remember our first well.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Exactly, Joe, when did you read the stories or when
did you get to Conan Doyle.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
It was a little bit later.
Speaker 3 (17:10):
I think it was from my twenties, so it would
have been it would have been later on, and I
dipped I read the classic, so you know, I dipped
in and read you know, the more kind of the
more famous sort of Doyle stories. But and I tried
to sort of fit in the gaps. I mean, I
I don't have an encyclopedic knowledge. I do have a
few gaps, but I definitely read them in my twenties.
And and I mean the comic goes back to the
(17:32):
early two thousands. And we developed the comic and we
didn't get any interest from the two publishers we pitched
it to, and then we put it down, and then
we picked it up again because the website, which is
also a magazine that we run a trip while we
do a thing called Lost Tales. And then my writer,
Scott Braden, said, if you've got any comic projects that
you know never saw the light of day, So I said,
(17:54):
I thought that the Homes project would be perfect. And
having discussed it after sort of fifteen year gap, I thought,
you know, maybe I should give it another go. And
then we went back and we tested the waters with
three shorts which were very well received in our magazine,
and then we decided to jump in and publish what
is now a two part sort of graphic novel story basically,
(18:15):
with the second part coming sort of later this year.
Speaker 1 (18:19):
So that first time around when the publishers were reticent
about your material, was it was it something specific with
your project? Was it that we were, say, in between
different resurgences of Holmes? What do you think it?
Speaker 5 (18:39):
I don't know. It is possible.
Speaker 3 (18:40):
I also hadn't done because I've worked as a journalist
for many years and I wasn't quite as established at
that point. I mean, admittedly we are publishing it's ourselves,
but it could be a number of different factors. It might,
as you say, have been between because you know, there's
always interesting homes. But maybe in sort of two thousand
and one when we pitched it, maybe it was one
of those periods when it was sort of a fallow
(19:00):
period for interesting homes at the time.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
And you mentioned Tripwire and yes, the Lost Tales series.
What other maybe characters or genres have been part of
that well?
Speaker 3 (19:17):
As I said, our writer Scott Brain has covered everything
from coord of Batman to you know, he's written sort
of twenty five or thirty of these. So these are
these are sort of light series that were mooted but
never came to fruition.
Speaker 5 (19:28):
So there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (19:29):
There's at least sort of twenty to thirty different series
that never saw the light of day. So there's things
like a Green Lantern series and a Batman and a
Dare Devil. So there's a there's a range of them
which are available on our website. We also run them
in our magazine from time to time as well. So
it was just but, as I said, just re examining
the you know that the series made me think that
(19:51):
maybe it was time to give it another go after
such a long break, you know, with a sort of
fresh pair of eyes.
Speaker 5 (19:57):
Fifteen years later.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
Joel, we've got we've got less listeners, you know, from
all around the world who were interested in graphic novels
and many other things. For those folks who don't know,
can you just talk a little bit about trip Wire,
because I know Tripwire. You know, you position Tripwire as
the genre magazine, and that's been editor in chief for
a very long time. Yeah, and Tripwire talks about graphic
(20:22):
novels and TV and film and genre and all sorts
of things. Can you just for the folks who might
not know what that is, can you talk a little
bit about it, and especially how you got into all of.
Speaker 5 (20:32):
This, Yes, with pleasure.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
It started life as a fairly basic fanzine that I
did with an ex neighbor of mine back in nineteen
ninety two, and it originally had comics and music, and
then we sort of parted company, and then we brought
in sort of TV and film and art. So we
ran a print magazine from nineteen ninety two to two
thousand and three. We took a slight break, went back
in two thousand and seven, took another slight break in
(20:57):
sort of twenty eleven, and then we went back in
twenty twenty because I missed having a print magazine, and
we also started the website in twenty fifteen. So yeah,
as you rightly say, we cover comics, film, TV, art
and illustration. So it's interviews with creators, reviews of the titles.
Speaker 5 (21:15):
And putting things into historical context as well.
Speaker 3 (21:18):
It has changed, It's become a lot more you know,
the production values have become a lot more sophisticated.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
Over the last few years. I mean I designed it myself.
Speaker 3 (21:25):
It's one hundred page full color magazine now that we
do sort three times a year, so we interview comic people,
also interview illustrators, people like Robert McGinnis who did the
Diamonds Are Forever Poster and Breakfast at Tiffany's. And guy
called Phil Hale who's done loads of sort of Stephen
King books, and he's also an artist, painter and illustrators.
Speaker 5 (21:45):
So our range of interest is quite.
Speaker 3 (21:47):
Broad because I like to think the people who like
comics they like illustration as well, and obviously film and TV.
Over the last fifteen to twenty years there's been a
greater connection between that and comics, so it was a
no brainer really to cover both.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
How many writers do you have working with you on
the magazine.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
We have sort of three or four, but we have
a few others that we use occasionally as well. I
mean I designed and I edited. We have my friend
Scott Braden who writes for us, and Stephen Dalton needs
to write for Enemy, who's also written for The Guardian
and he does a TV in film stuff for us,
and my sort of second in command, Andy Coleman, sort
of the senior editor, and he writes stuff for us.
(22:28):
The last issue that we put out, which came out
last week, we had a big history of Daredevil because
it's sixty years of the characters. He wrote a history
of the character, and I did some interviews with certain
writers who worked.
Speaker 5 (22:38):
On the book.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
So we have between SAT three and six writers who
sort of well, we also have a strip section at
the back, which we've used to preview homes. I mean,
it's a wonderful vehicle to run strict content and also
to give people the flavor of the Sherlock Holmes thing, which,
as I said, is we started running it in the magazine.
Speaker 5 (22:56):
I wrote three.
Speaker 3 (22:57):
Shorts before I started the script for the long story,
and I think it's great training ground because just like
you know, going back to comics, people who worked on
two thousand and eight over here, you know, you can
really hone your skills on a six or an eight
page comics story because there's no flab. You can't mess around,
there can't be any padding. You have to, you know,
(23:17):
really cut to the chase.
Speaker 5 (23:18):
Basically.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Yeah, well that is really impressive. You know, anytime these
days someone can still pull off print. We're impressed.
Speaker 5 (23:32):
Well, thank you, I miss.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
I mean, I've worked as a journalist as well, things
like newspapers and magazines, places like The Times and the
Sunday Times and Time Magazine and another place.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
I like having it. I mean, the website is fine.
Speaker 3 (23:45):
I'm not disparaging our website because obviously it serves a purpose.
But it's something about getting it, having a physical print
object in your hands.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
That it's hard to beat.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
Its interesting because back on episode two hundred and six,
we spoke with Adrian Brady, of.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
Course, the editor of the show at Holmes Magazine.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
I've written a piece for them, and I've actually I'm
pitching another piece for which I think he might well
take up about the novel. It's a wonderful magazine.
Speaker 5 (24:11):
I think he does a phenomenal job.
Speaker 1 (24:12):
Oh, it really is. It's very impressive. And again, he
like you came from a journalism background, and I was
going to say that if the two of you didn't
know each other, I was going to suggestion.
Speaker 3 (24:22):
You know, I am familiar with him, and as I said,
he does great work. It's a wonderful magazine for fans
of homes, and I'd recommend it if any of your
listeners haven't seen the magazine is well recommended.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
Yes, it is, so, Joel, Is this project something I
mean you mentioned you know, I have been working on
this for a long time. Is this something that you
and Andy have been working on together for a long
time or when did.
Speaker 3 (24:47):
Any Yes, I mean basically I had another artist on
board which didn't quite work out for a number of
different reasons, and I was recommended to Andy from a
mutual friend and we just got chatting and we created
an eight page short in our proposal, which looks quite
sort of primitive now and it doesn't quite work, but
it's an interesting artifact to look at considering sort of
(25:09):
the history of the series. And then basically round about
let me get this right, about fifteen, it's about twenty
seventeen or eighteen. I started to think about what we
could do, how we could get people into the world,
how we could get readers interested into the world that
I've created, you know, with Andy. And so the three
shorts are you know, one deals with Holmes returning to
(25:30):
Baker Street because one of the mcguffins of this story
is that Holmes has lost the house. I mean, basically
he lost the house because he didn't. The other thing
about this story is it does blur into reality and
the reason why he lost the house is because he
didn't solve the Jack the Ripper murders, and so his
reputation was basically not what it was, and so you know,
(25:52):
people stopped hiring him as a detective, and so he
loses the house and so he's had to move somewhere else.
So the first story is about returning to Baker Street
to pick up an object, and then the other two stories.
One is a chase between a new character I've created.
He was this girkher agent who figures quite prominently in
the comic, so he's chasing his victim. And then the
(26:13):
third story is because I've got Oswald Moseley, who was
the well known sort of right wing sort of British
neo Nazi, and he's basically the prime.
Speaker 5 (26:20):
Minister in this story.
Speaker 3 (26:21):
So the third story is the secret Files of Oswill Moseley,
which is basically him looking sort of cursing people like
Holmes and his compatriots. But you know, I really enjoyed
doing those and they fitted well, and I just thought
it was time to jump in and do the longer story.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Well, I mean it's brilliant. You know what you've what
you've brought together here, Holmes. You know the impact of
not solving the Ripper murders. Going back to Baker Street Chase.
Speaker 3 (26:51):
And it also has stuff to do with the underraveling
of the DNA helix because you might be aware of
this because of Watson and Craik, who were the two
scientists unraveled. So it just seems it just it just
seemed like a fortuitous, you know, occasion. It just seems
like synchronicity, I guess is the words that we can have.
It's a different Watson, but you know, it's it seems
(27:13):
to work well, and it's and it's you know, the DNA.
I'm not a scientist, and my knowledge of science is
quite limited, but it just seemed to be it seems
to it seemed to fit in really nicely because it was,
you know, it was such a major thing in sort
of twentieth century history. And and I said, blowing the
lines between the fictional world that Homes.
Speaker 5 (27:31):
In habits and having real life.
Speaker 3 (27:33):
Figures lends it an extra sort of tone that other
homes stories don't.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
I like to think, well, yes, absolutely. And and you know,
with the the tie, this is volume one, this is
the gene Jessy And so we're not giving away any
spoilers by talking about DNA. But one of the things
I was delighted, many delighted things to see in this
is Resamond Franklin. You know you've put right again.
Speaker 5 (27:58):
I wanted a ground I wanted to ground it in reality.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
I wanted to have a prominent female She doesn't have
a major role, but you know, I talked to a
friend of mine who's written about science, so I worked
with it guinnesswel Records, and I said, who would you
pick as a prominent real life female scientist who had
a pivotal role.
Speaker 5 (28:13):
Admittedly this is slightly earlier.
Speaker 3 (28:16):
Than when she was actually in you know, real history,
but you know, this is a fictional story, so I'm
playing a little fast and loose with some of the facts. Anyway,
I mean, it wasn't it wasn't Dr Watson obviously who
unraveled the DNA. It was the other Watson. But and
I just thought it would be fun to have her
in there so.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Well, and to me, that is where something like this
and and and similar things. I mean, we saw Nicholas
Meyer do this with the seven percent solution bringing I'm.
Speaker 3 (28:48):
Trying to write an interview with him, which hasn't quite
happened for a number of different reasons. And also he's
in La So obviously because of the horrible things of
the fires, it's not quite it's not quite the right
time at the moment.
Speaker 5 (28:58):
If I'm hoping picked that.
Speaker 1 (29:00):
Time over the weekend. So if there's any way we
can help put you in touch with him and make I.
Speaker 3 (29:04):
Would love to about it. About his home's career, sure,
phenomenal career writing. You know Holmes books and I have
read seven Percent Solution. I keep meanings to pick up
the others because he is he's a great writer. And again,
just like you know our story, he uses people like
Freud and real historical figures because I think it gives
it a very different flavor. It grounds it in reality,
(29:25):
but it makes it fantastical at the same time.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
Well that's that's just it. That That was what I
was going to ask you about, is you know, taking
reality and you know, morphing that into this other world,
a world that ostensibly started in the fictional realm. But
Conan Doyle was so convincing at the time people thought
that Sherlock Holmes walked among them. So I talk to
(29:49):
us a little bit about the challenges looking at this
from a historical historical perspective and how you're able to
draw these threads together so convincingly.
Speaker 5 (30:00):
Well, there's a lot.
Speaker 3 (30:01):
I mean, it's crazy to fall into a rabbit hole
with research, you know, because we are I think the
difficult thing is, you know, before this started, I didn't
have any structure to play with. And the thing about
this is that you could be because I've set my
own parameters. There's basically you can have anything. You know,
you could think about what happened during these periods and
(30:21):
you can think, you know, you could you could draw
on anything at all. But I just thought I thought
Mosley was a good figure because he.
Speaker 5 (30:27):
Was a rather infamous figure.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
And you know, and the second book has got George
the Fifth in this as well, because I wanted to
touch on the royal family.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
And I mean this is I mean, I remember when the.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Pennyworth series which spun off ouse as the Batman that
HBO did, which was kind of what happened, if you know,
if Pennyworth occupied a slightly different space. So in this
it's almost like taking a step off the pavement and
going in a slightly different direction to what happened in reality.
So you know, with this as well, I mean Second
World War isn't it's not likely to happen in this world.
(31:00):
There was the First World War, but there's that period
where everything changed, and even things like the church. There's
I think it's called White Friars, there's a church in
near Saint Paul's which has a bomb during the Second
World War, but at this point it's slightly earlier, so
it's intact. So the artists had to have a look
at some old illustrations of the church to basically draw
(31:20):
drawers as if it was, you know, intact. But it
has been fascinating to go in and you know, and
it's tough because it's a home story, but there are
a hell of a lot of supporting characters. So my
rariri was to go, people are going to go this
isn't really a home story because you've got you've got
the Girkher agent, you've got Watson, you've got Watson's son
(31:41):
in the second book, You've got you know, you've got
five or six, got Franklin Miller, who is the Mohawk
because the Mohawks were a regency gang in London in
the eighteenth century. Caused all manner of havoc basically, and
I thought he'd be an interesting character to include into
the mix.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
So talk to us a little bit about the Kickstarter
project here, because what I can tell by looking at
it is we are anticipating volume two at some point
throughout this year. But how have you set things up
and how can people get involved?
Speaker 3 (32:19):
Well, basically, we've our first campaign through another platform called
zoop which is just purely comics, but I decided to
do this one on Kickstarter because you get there are
more eyes and it's not as it's not a criticism
of zoo because zop is they were very helpful and
it was a great crowdfunding platform.
Speaker 5 (32:35):
But we did the first book.
Speaker 3 (32:37):
It was originally going to be a single volume, but
there was a so much plot that I said to
the artist, I'd like to split this. So the first
volume did really well. So the second volume will be
out so a round about May or June time. So
it's going to be around about ninety six pages of story,
and there's going to be lots of extra material like
character sketches.
Speaker 5 (32:56):
They're going to be some of my script pages.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
We've commissioned some original pieces as well, some pin ups
from some certain artists. So we've got two different covers
for the second book, like we did with the first one.
We've got pinups from a guy called Tom Koker, who's
work with sort of DC and Image. A guy called
George Pratts who's an amazing painter who used to be
a traditional comic artist but he now teaches illustration down
at the Ringling School in Florida. So yeah, it's on
(33:19):
Kickstarter at the moment, it's we've extended. The campaign ended
on the thirteenth of December, but the kickstars have produced
thing called late pledges, which means that people can continue
to support it until the people who run the campaign
decide to stop it. So it's currently available. We've got
just under a month left. People can still grab the book.
There's two incredible covers from one from a guy called
(33:40):
Dan Panosi and who's an American comic artist who's worked
for DC and Marvel and everybody's own covers for con
Nan and these are original. Another British artist called Fraser Irving,
who's been around for years, worked at two thousand and
eight and Batman. And you know the nice thing about this,
we're also offering paperbacks, so we have a recap in
the second book where people want to read the first book.
We're making an available in paperback for the first time,
(34:02):
and we're doing a new printing of the hardback of
the first volume, offfering this in payback too, So there's
there's a lot of options, and there's also a digital
so if people don't want a hardback, if they just
want the book, you know, there's just like there's a
more reasonable, you know, way of picking it up.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah, there literally is something for everyone.
Speaker 5 (34:23):
So I would I would like to think.
Speaker 1 (34:25):
So this is marvelous, Joe.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
I've enjoyed it because it's you know, the journalism, moving
from journalism to writing was a bit daunting, but it's
it's been very satisfying, Joe.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
What you know, you talk about moving from journalism to writing,
What was your entry point as a as a young
person into this. What were the first comics that you
looked at? When did when did this man really imprint
itself on you?
Speaker 5 (34:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (34:52):
I mean, basically I blame my brother for this because
he had he had a friend who was in hospital,
and he start he was reading loads of comics, you know,
sort of Superman comics and things, and so he got
my brother into it, and my brother got me into it,
so it was I read things like New Teen Titans
and Superman in DC Comics resents. But I also read
Steve Goerbers How the Duck, which is a very strange,
(35:14):
very surreal comic, when I was about eight or nine
years old, which is a heavily satirical comic.
Speaker 5 (35:21):
So I was quite young when I got into comics.
It was. And also because there.
Speaker 3 (35:25):
You can't get them here, but they're not quite as
easy to get as easy now, but when I was
a kid, they were harder to get than they are
in the States, so you really had to you had
to hunt them down over here.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
I was.
Speaker 1 (35:38):
So it must be wonderful to be wrapping this project up.
What's next on your horizon?
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Well, actually, I'm planning a novella which bridges the gap
between basically the Cannon of Doyle's stories and the first
graphic novel. So basically Holmes, as I said, Holmes lost
the house in Baker Streets and said that the novella
deals with him living homeless on the streets. So so
homes is homeless, and so his reputation is sort of
(36:10):
in tatus, and he's trying to find that case that
will get him sort of back on his feet. So
that's that sort of one hundred and fifty odd page
pros novella which I'm going to be launching next basically
probably on.
Speaker 5 (36:22):
Kickstarter as well.
Speaker 3 (36:23):
And I'm also I'm actually thinking about a third comic
project as well, which will be a second actually because
this is obviously a two parties so which will be
featuring a prominent adversary of Homes but not Moriarty, and
another prominent adversary of Homes who I think I won't
mention my name because I like to keep a little
bit of a secret hunder wraps, okay, but it's a
(36:45):
character I think it's very interesting who would fit in
very well with the world that we've created here.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
So as you are looking to spec out that novella
and get it ready for publication, I hope you're going
to call it Sherlock Homeless.
Speaker 5 (37:04):
Well actually going to be called down and Out in London.
Speaker 3 (37:08):
Obviously to mister all Well, which I thought would be
I thought that would be appropriate.
Speaker 6 (37:12):
Yes, but I'm.
Speaker 5 (37:15):
Looking forward to getting into it.
Speaker 3 (37:16):
I mean, it is it is daunting, you know, to
you know, the standing on the shoulders of giants. Obviously,
Doyle was a great writer, and he created this wonderfully
rich world, which is you know, much loved by people
around the world. So I really I was a little
bit daunted, but you know, because I've I've already written
a volume already, and I feel like I'm getting a
(37:37):
good feel as to what our take is. You know,
it's a different take. You know, it isn't It isn't
strickly speaking, a detective story. I mean, the second book
might well be more of a detective story, and actually
the novelop might be more of a detective story. But
you know, this is the comic, as it's down to
the moment, is more of a kind of sci fi
steampunk adventure basically. So it's you know what happens, you know,
(37:59):
if Holmes is in a world that he doesn't really
fit in, you know, with a man who is this
kind of monstrous figure, you know, ruling the country, and
he has to use all of his wits, and he's
not physically as strong as he was because he's a
slightly he's an older man now, so he has to
rely on the skills of others to assist him.
Speaker 1 (38:17):
Talk to us a little bit about the difference from
your perspective in creating a novella versus working on a graphic.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Novel, well, obviously it's different. I mean, it's it's all
down to me because it's pros. You know, the comic
is very much you know, Andy Bennett's efforts are on
monumental and you know, without his incredible art, he wouldn't
have any of the impact. You know, with this is
it's all down to me, you know, if it stands
or falls on the quality of my writing and also
(38:48):
the structure and the plots. So it's it's it's a
slightly different beast. It has to be an enjoyable story,
and I wanted to tap into some of the things.
I want to answer some of the questions that have
been thrown up by you know, the first the graphic
novels that people have read to fill in the gaps,
and I just.
Speaker 5 (39:04):
I've written a little bit of prose.
Speaker 3 (39:06):
I mean, there was a in the the first graphic
novel there's a short which focused on one of the
characters that I really enjoyed it, which is a two
thousand word pros short, and I kind of feel like
I'm ready to write something a little bit longer and
I'm looking forward to really get I made. I haven't
properly started it because I'm still working through the graphic novel,
(39:26):
but I'm very good at multitasking.
Speaker 5 (39:28):
So but no, it is it's a different beast.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
But you know, I'd like to think that it's hopefully
enjoyable in its own way as the comic, and it
hits in and hopefully it will fill in the gaps
and you know, people who enjoyed the comic will hopefully
enjoy the prose story as well, because it's it's a
similar approach. I mean, the homes, the slightly kind of
crotchety homes that I have created, it's going to be
(39:53):
very much in evidence here. But he's going to be
on the very much on the back foot. You know,
he's not going to have the he's going to you know,
he's living in a in a you know, an environment
that he's not comfortable in and he's not his reputation
is not what it was, so he has to readjust
to a slightly different lifestyle.
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Well, it certainly sounds like you've got hidden by the bug.
Speaker 5 (40:13):
Oh I have. I have. I've always been a huge fan.
Speaker 3 (40:16):
And another thing about the character is you know, just
like James Bond, just like Batman, just like Scarlet Pimpernel.
These are all characters that are iconic, but they are
flexible enough that there are so many, you know, different
takes that people can you know, so many different approaches
that people can can take to put their own spin
on these creations. And that's what's so wonderful, that's there's
(40:39):
such of rich characters.
Speaker 1 (40:41):
Yeah, you ever consider taking them out of their timeline
or out of their usual geography or is Sherlock Holms
in London and late Victorian era just where you want
to see him?
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Well, I mean, he's obviously an Edwardian in this story
all fictional wards and but possibly, I mean it's I wouldn't.
Speaker 5 (41:02):
I wouldn't rule it out.
Speaker 3 (41:03):
I mean, I guess it could work in a in
another setting, I wouldn't.
Speaker 5 (41:07):
I wouldn't say no.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
But at the moment, I'm just focusing my attention because
I feel like he's he does fit that best. I mean,
obviously there have been you know, loads of there's been
loads of films and TV where they take him out
and you know, the fish House of Water thing does
work well. But as I wouldn't I wouldn't say never,
but but not currently.
Speaker 1 (41:25):
Yeah, wonderful. So where either other than trip Wire or
a Kickstarter which we will have links to these in
the show notes. Is there any other place where people
can follow you or find you or or the team?
Speaker 3 (41:42):
Well, I mean, I'm on, i am on the various
social media platforms. I am on i am on the
I'm on Blue Sky, and I'm on Twitter, and i'm
we have a Facebook. We have a Sherlock Holmes Empire
Builders group on Facebook. We also have a trip Wire
group also on Facebook. So if people so, you know,
for me by name, they should find me on the
(42:04):
various social media platforms.
Speaker 1 (42:06):
Okay, well, we will make sure that we get those
in the show notes. Very much wonderful, Joel Meadows any
any last minute words of wisdom, encouragement, et cetera for
all the listeners out there.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Well, I mean we have, We've We've managed to accumulate
a lot of incredible quotes from people about homes, and
I think I would be I would be remiss if
I didn't at least share a couple. So I'm going
to say the first one is from in ranking Creative
Rebus classic Sherlock Holmes. You can smell the chimney smoke
(42:44):
and feel the classic class of who's Here's the character
we all known love, given a fresh polish for the
twenty first century.
Speaker 5 (42:50):
So that's and I'm very, very proud. Obviously, that's incredible.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
I mean, and I have a very from Germa del Toro,
who described it as don good romp. So we've got
some pretty and we've got a lot of love for
this book. And then from Michael Molcock, a fantasy legend.
When you think there is nothing more to be said
or done with Sherlock Holmes, along comes Meadows and Bennett
to breathe fresh life into the great detective brother.
Speaker 5 (43:14):
I'm thoroughly enjoying this original tale.
Speaker 3 (43:16):
And I might give you one more quote from Jeff Lowe,
who's worked on television but also in comics on Batman, The.
Speaker 5 (43:22):
Long Halloween and The Last Halloween. The game is indeed
a foot.
Speaker 3 (43:26):
It's no small feet to take on the works of
Conan Doyle, and yet Joel and Andy have done a
neat job of it. Holmes feels quite like the Sherlock
we know and love, except he's found himself out of
his element. Meanwhile, like every great heroic story, there's a
villain who where you just have to read it for yourself.
Gorgeous art work by Andy that captures the mood and
spirits of Joel's page turner.
Speaker 5 (43:44):
Enjoy it all.
Speaker 3 (43:44):
So yes, I think that's that's a few little snippets
for people to consider. But I'd like to think that
if we've managed to if we manage to attract that
sort of caliber of fans, I'd like to think that
some of your listeners will definitely appeal to some of them.
Speaker 1 (43:58):
Excellent well Sherlock Holmes and the Empire Builders The gene
Genie by Joel Meadows and Andy Bennett. Look for it
on Kickstarter, and certainly check out everything that trip Wire
has to offer. Maybe even subscribe to their print magazine
whatever floats your boat. As they say, Joel, thank you
(44:21):
so much for joining us here on out here of
Sherlock Everywhere.
Speaker 5 (44:24):
Thank you, it's been my pleasure. Thank you for having
me on your show. Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
What a terrific idea you know, and what's what he's
put together here. But the couple of the two things
that really stand out to me is, first of all,
the enthusiasm from Guillermo del Toro. I mean, it's not
every project like this that gets a rave from an
Oscar winner Oscar winning director and filmmaker. But also the story,
(45:04):
you know, Watson leaves Holmes to help Francis Crick unravel
the DNA helix and finds himself working for the most
evil man in England. I mean, it's just terrific and
it's great to hear his enthusiasm for this and the
evolution of it, you know, the novella to come. It's
(45:25):
really something.
Speaker 1 (45:26):
Yeah, it really is. And you know, as much as
we've had other graphic novel artists and writers on the
show or that we say feature regularly, and you know,
of course we talked to Joanna Draper Carlson from Sherlock
Holmes Comics dot com. There doesn't seem to be any
(45:51):
two projects like this that are the same. They all
have a unique angle on them, certainly unique art. And
I love the way that Joel talked about the different
Kickstarter tears and selections. There is literally something for everyone
(46:11):
in these kinds of offerings. Now, before we launch into
a chance of listening this time, I oh, well, both
our listeners and Madeleine An apology. It seems that in
my rush to get to New York, I grabbed the
wrong file and dropped it into the last episode, so
(46:32):
you had a repeat of the previous chance of listening
with Madeline, when she had gone to such great lengths
to prepare her correspondence with us and to prepare this
episode so it would meld perfectly with the goings on
at the BSI weekend. So, Madeleine, I'm sorry that the
timing doesn't work out here, but it's still just as charming.
(46:55):
So we'd like to give you a chance. It's a
chance of listening with your correspondent, Madeline kim Yonez.
Speaker 6 (47:07):
Hello everyone, I'm Maddelin Kiyanis and live from New York.
It's ash Wednesday. Sorry, I've always wanted to do that. Okay,
I am live in New York when this episode will drop,
but it's not live. I can imagine that would be
(47:27):
a tricky I HOS episode to pull off. I am
instead coming to you from the past to tell you
about a wonderful little podcast called Talk About Sherlock. Talk
About Sherlock is a solo adventure by Swedish Sherlockian scholar
Matthias Bostrom. Now, if you're familiar with Matthias's work, you
(47:47):
know he is always intelligent, thoughtful, and charming, and he
always has something interesting to say, so of course his
podcast is no different. Each episode is no longer than
half an hour, and unfortunately there are only eight episodes.
One can only imagine that editing a certain book series
cut in the way of podcasting. Each episode dives into
(48:10):
a different Sherilokian or Doilian topic or moment. The very
first episode is an account of how the entertainment media
might have hurt the chances of the twenty eighteen film
Holmes and Watson, Yes, the Will Ferrell movie. Do not
skip this episode. Matthias does a deep dive into the
(48:32):
online articles covering the film's box office performance and then
presents what I think is a compelling argument for why
even a movie like Holmes and Watson is important in
the grand scheme of things. So that is actually in
my episode recommendation. Start with the first episode, and heck,
listen to the whole thing. Like I said, it's eight episodes,
(48:54):
it's under four hours of audio content, so it's really
easy to get through and a pleasure to listen to,
and that's all I've got for this BSI weekend at
the moment, see y'all around Manhattan.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
Oh that's terrific.
Speaker 1 (49:14):
Yeah, I'm sorry we missed that the last time around,
but it's just as charming either way. And I suppose
we won't be seeing you around Manhattan currently pattling unless
you've made it back east.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
Yeah. How interesting? You know a reference to Holmes and
Watson with Will Farrell. Well, I think she really frames
that up very well.
Speaker 1 (49:42):
And speaking of Holmes and Watson, you will want to
check out the bonus content for this episode of our
News of this Month. It's a new feature that we
have just for our supporters. We're gonna give you a
few minutes of Sherlockian news that you can use and
hopefully it's something that will catch on. So check that
(50:04):
out over on Patreon or sub stack. Okay, it's time
for everyone's favorite with this show. It's canonical couplet, where
we give you two lines of poetry and ask you
to identify the Sherlock home story that we are talking about.
(50:29):
The Last time around these parts, we left you with
this clue. A jealous wife whose charms were on the
Wayne endowed her rival with the brand of Cain. Oh Bert,
do you know do you know which Sherlock Home story
we're talking about?
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Of course, of course, of course, of course that's the
case where a great US senator who's made a lot
of money mining gold takes his beautiful governess. He's fallen
in love with this beautiful woman, and he takes her
to a murderous dentist. And that's the case Watson called
the problem of the sore Bridge.
Speaker 1 (51:13):
Eyoy, I saw that one coming and I still couldn't
dodge that bullet, much like Maria Gibson. Okay, yeah, bang, hey,
you know I was. I've been reading the the book
by Frank Case, Tales of a Wayward Inn.
Speaker 5 (51:32):
Oh.
Speaker 1 (51:32):
Great Frank Case was, of course the owner of the
Algonquin Hotel where we used to have where we used
to stay during the BSI weekend. And he realized, and
I can't remember who gave him this idea, it was
somebody that was in the restaurant there who wanted to
tell a joke about a gun. And he said, bang, oh,
(51:59):
that sounds like a speaking of guns, and he would
launch into his joke. So there are numerous instances in
various chapters where Case says, bang, oh, that sounds like
a gun, and then he's off to a new topic.
He uses that as a paragraph break of.
Speaker 2 (52:16):
Sorts, and try it's a charming book. I'm so glad you're.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
Reading it, really is. I'm really enjoying it. But in
that case, we would like to turn our attention to
Eric Deckers, who gave us his usual contribution Eureka, I've
solved it. Probably it's the story of the time when Watson,
who was between wives at the time, engaged in a
(52:42):
torrid love affair with a housewife in Iowa, even while
Holmes was trying to clear a local babysitter of murder.
It's the story Watson called the problem of the Bridges
of Madison County. Although that's a pretty big stretch even
for me, so it's more likely the problem of Thorbridge.
(53:07):
There you go, Eric, you you finally came came around
to it. That is correct. Well, we have a number
of people who also joined you in that answer. So
we're going to bring out the prize wheel and give
it a spear. It goes around and lands on number
(53:31):
eighty two. Eighty two. That's a high one, and that
looks like it's would you look at that? It's Eric
Deckers himself.
Speaker 2 (53:44):
Eric.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Congratulations, we have a copy of The Serpent under Bonnie
mcbird's latest Sherlock Holmes book coming to you, so thank
you for that. Well, this time around we have another
canonical couplet clue. Would you like to join Eric and
try to win a prize? It's a copy of Sherlock
(54:07):
Holmes and the Empire Builders. Get ready. The cigarettes were
by Ionides. Holmes settled this one with the utmost ease.
If you know the answer to this canonical couplet, put
it in an email just to comment and I hear
at Sherlock dot com with canonical couplet in the subject line.
(54:30):
If your answer is among all of the correct ones,
and you choose, and we choose your name of random,
you'll win. Good luck, goodness, I haven't gotten tongue tied
on that one in quite a while.
Speaker 4 (54:43):
No, no, no, it happens, it does great.
Speaker 6 (54:48):
Well.
Speaker 1 (54:49):
This is as always lovely way to round out January
with you. The Earth's longest month, I think has to
do with the rotation of the Earth, I believe, sir.
Now it's it's still dark, it's thirty one days, it's
the new year. It's all kinds of things.
Speaker 2 (55:09):
That is, all kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (55:11):
I couldn't imagine spending it with a more delightful individual.
Speaker 2 (55:15):
Well, I'm so sorry to hear that. What a limited
acquaintanceship you must have with people. But I'm happy if
I can fill that small role. I'm happy, well if
I can sing those songs, as Jolson says, I could
sing those popular songs, and I'm happy.
Speaker 1 (55:33):
Well, this is the always happy Scott Monty.
Speaker 2 (55:37):
And I'm the perpetually cheerful.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
Bertwolder, and together we say the games.
Speaker 2 (55:48):
Of a foot.
Speaker 5 (55:49):
But the games and a foot.
Speaker 1 (55:58):
I'm afraid that in the place to this conversation, I
am neglecting business of importance which awaits me.
Speaker 4 (56:08):
Thank you for listening. Please be sure to join us
again for the next episode of I Hear of Sherlock Everywhere,
the first podcast dedicated to Sherlock Holmes.
Speaker 2 (56:22):
Goodbye and good luck, and believe me to be my
dear Fema. That is Sinceni yours, Sherlock Holmes
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