20 Near Death Experience Commonalities that Align with the Bible

What do near death experiences (NDEs) from people around the world have in common, and how do they align with what’s written in the Bible? In this video, we explore 20 near-death experience commonalities I've found after studying close to 1500 NDEs.

Listen as Dr. Mary Neal, a spine surgeon pinned under a waterfall and dead for 30 minutes, along with Captain Dale Black, an airline pilot who came back from a horrific plane crash, vividly describe the commonalities of Heaven and the afterlife that overlap with so many NDEs around the world. 

Follow their parallel journies into heavenly realms, describing the spiritual body with its new powers, glorious reunions, and the wonders of the city of God, bustling with life. Discover how these experiences mirror ancient biblical truths.

Could near-death experiences be evidence of the afterlife described in Scripture? And why do some Christian pastors say near-death experiences contradict the Bible? Which of these extraordinary accounts does the Bible confirm? Listen now to dive into this fascinating connection between NDE commonalities and the Bible. 

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Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I'm going to let you hear from several Neurotath experience people that I have interviewed

(00:05):
together they make up most of the elements of a full-blown Neurotath experience.
I'll pause along the way to explain the commonalities and how they align with the
Bible so that you can see it for yourself. I'm John Burke, author of the New York Times Best Selling
Book, Imagine Heaven and Imagine the God of Heaven and this is the Imagine Heaven podcast.

(00:29):
Well Dr. Neal, thanks for being here with us. You had a pretty amazing experience while kayaking
on a river in Chile. Your kayak got lodged in some boulders and you were underwater. How many minutes?
The people who were cessated me would say I was underwater 30 minutes. Wow. Talk us through that day
what happened. I went over a waterfall that had a tremendous volume and a lot of current and as my

(00:58):
boat rocketed down the front end became stuck or pinned in the rocks underwater and the boat and I
were immediately and completely submerged under about eight or ten feet of water. And I very
quickly knew that I was likely going to die and at that point I completely surrendered the outcome

(01:20):
to God's will and the moment I asked that God's will be done I was immediately
and very physically held by Christ and reassured that everything would be fine. How did you know it was
Jesus holding you? It's an absolute pure knowledge. It would be as though I saw my husband in the

(01:44):
grocery store and I knew it was my husband. I don't have to ask if it's my husband. I knew that it was
Christ old me and it was a very pure absolute knowledge and that was one of the first very
profound aspects of this experience for me because I knew that I didn't deserve to be held by Christ.

(02:07):
I certainly didn't deserve his love or his reassurance but that's the beauty of it. None of us
actually deserve God's love. Well welcome to the Imagine Heaven podcast where we explore near-death
experiences, the Bible, the commonalities and the controversies and how it can help us be the best

(02:27):
version of ourselves today. I came at this whole topic as a skeptic. I believed that Jesus was
probably just a legend. God, I mean who could possibly know? And near-death experiences actually
opened my mind to begin to search. What I found was overwhelming evidence. Not only for the

(02:51):
truthfulness of near-death experiences and what they point to the reality of a life to come but also
how they align with what God has been revealing throughout history. Now I understand agnostic
skeptics and I addressed some of their concerns in our last episode. In this episode I want to address

(03:12):
some of the Christian skeptics because I was one of those as well. What a bit of all the people who
claim to have died and gone to heaven. What are near-death experiences anyway? It's time to learn the lies.
God has given us His word and if we will not listen to Moses in the prophets then why would He send
someone back to write a New York Times bestseller about heaven? We shouldn't listen to fanciful

(03:34):
tales from people who claim to have gone to heaven because they are not compatible with the word of God.
You know many YouTube preachers and theologians are out there saying that near-death experiences
contradict or go against what the Bible teaches like Lex who you just heard from. And now I need to
be honest. I don't know Lex. I haven't watched his channel. I don't know anything about him. We might

(03:59):
agree on more than we disagree on. I don't really know. But what I find is that Lex and some other
Christian pastors and theologians who say things like this really haven't taken the time
to look at the connections and the commonalities like we're going to do today. Over my years of study

(04:20):
I've traced about 40 commonalities of what near-death experiences commonly report that overlap with
the claims of the Bible. And as I said that goes across about 1500 near-death experiences that I've
studied. But there are millions out there according to the Gallup poll and and other research. Not all

(04:44):
near-death experiences report all the same elements. Each one is unique in many ways and yet they have
these common percentage of overlapping elements. For instance about 57% of near-death experiences say
they encounter deceased relatives on the other side. About 48% encounter this same God of light and

(05:06):
love. 32% have a life review in this God's presence. This is actually one of the things
that convinced me of the veracity or the truthfulness of these claims. Because if these experiences
are really just brain-based then why don't all human brains produce pretty much the same experience?

(05:26):
You know why wouldn't 100% of humans encounter deceased relatives if this is just a brain thing
using our passing. You know why wouldn't 100% encounter a life review? And how do you explain people
encountering this God of light and love when there had no cultural understanding that would have been

(05:50):
in their brain? There's something to this that's beyond just brain-based. But this also points out
something important. The difference between what near-death experiences report versus how they
interpret what they report. For instance someone might only have four of the say 40 or so

(06:11):
commonalities that I've traced of near-death experiences. They may leave their body, they
feel peace, they feel more alive than ever before. They can see and report what's happening in
the operating room and boom they're back in their body. They can report these things but then they

(06:31):
can interpret that pretty much any way their worldview would want them to. You know if they're an atheist
they could say well look I felt great. It was all good. You know atheists go to heaven. It's all you
know doesn't matter what you think or what you believe or what you do. And so what we have to understand
is we have to look at what people report not necessarily how they interpret what they report.

(06:56):
And I find that that is one of the things that many Christians misunderstand is they hear what
people are interpreting out on YouTube or when they report their near-death experience and they're
not taking the time to dig deeper to see that the commonalities underneath really do align with

(07:18):
the scriptures. Today I'm going to let you hear from several near-death experience people that I
have interviewed who have become good friends of mine. And I'm going to let you hear most of their
stories because together they make up most of the elements of a full-blown near-death experience.
I'll pause along the way to explain the commonalities and how they align with the Bible so that

(07:43):
you can see it for yourself. So Dr. Mary Neal who you just heard from is a spine surgeon. She's
married to a doctor. They lived together in Jackson Hole, Wyoming. Captain Dale Black is who you're
also going to hear his pretty much as full story. He was a career commercial airline pilot. He also
has a PhD in aeronautical engineering and started several multi-million dollar businesses in the aviation

(08:10):
industry. And I tell you that because these two people have absolutely nothing to gain and a whole
lot to lose by making up wild stories like you're going to hear. And yet they say nothing was more
real or more important and nothing has changed their lives more than what happened.

(08:31):
Well Dale thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. Let's start at that day. You were
supposed to take off into a blue LA sky in Assessina? Well no but close it was a private aircraft but we
were in a tin passenger aircraft. We take off on runway 15. The engines were at full power

(08:56):
and the aircraft climbed up what looked semi-normal to about a hundred, 110 feet off the ground
and then for some reason we weren't climbing anymore. You could tell something was wrong.
Something was wrong and then within a second after that something was horribly wrong. But what happened
was our left wing tip I found out later. Clipped, clipped the top of several very tall trees

(09:21):
and it just splintered them like kindling. When we hit the trees it turned us just about 10 degrees
this way now. Instead of going this way we now started going that way. And right in front of us
was a seven story tall cemetery mausoleum. That's it's 70 feet high. Yeah yeah it's 70 feet high

(09:46):
right to the top. Now we slammed into this at 135 miles an hour so it just exploded open
and the three pilots and everything in it just exploded. Dale I mean hitting 135 miles an hour into
a cement wall dropping 70 feet. What do you remember about that day? The next thing after the impact

(10:08):
of the crash the next thing that happened to me was I was looking down at a airplane that had crashed.
I had seen a body over here that was dead and then there's another body over here also dead
but I knew this body really well and that was Chuck. And then there was another body

(10:31):
inside the basically squished into the instrument panel and that was obviously me.
But the fun you could tell it was you. Oh yeah oh yeah I recognized my slacks. I recognized my shirt.
I recognized my hair and I remember that that's me and I wasn't worried. I had a lot of questions

(10:57):
so what the and then I began to realize right then it hit me. I am not my body. There's my body
but here's me. And how did you feel? I felt like I had a lot of questions but I did not feel
really worried. I didn't feel worried. I didn't feel panicky. I felt I guess like wow I mean

(11:25):
gee this is wow. Because you tell you were yourself did you have a body? My body was down there. Your
physical body. Yeah my body was there and I didn't notice my legs or hands or whatever but I knew
who I was and I was the one looking down and that's when everything started changing and I don't
know where I got this information at least at the time I didn't know but I realized this okay

(11:52):
I am day old black. That's me and I have a personality and I have a mind. I have a will and I have
emotions and that's not my body. So I'm a spirit and I have a soul and I live normally in that body

(12:13):
but now my body appears to be dead but I never felt more alive. An ambulance arrived. Fire trucks
arrived and they put me in an ambulance but I just knew I was to follow my body. And so you're
following the ambulance where are you and what are you are you seeing earth the same is everything

(12:33):
the same? Right at this point following the ambulance I would actually go into my body and then
come out of my body and still stay inside the ambulance. It's happening so fast. It didn't seem like
time was going fast but yet I couldn't quite keep up with all that was happening. The next thing I

(13:00):
know I'm on a gurney and the same thing happens racing through the hospital corridor. I'm seeing
the body I'm looking at the lights I'm seeing the tials. I remember this vividly I get into the
hospital ER room apparently and doctors and nurses are start working on me and I mean I can remember
it's like somebody had taken a picture I just remember that even to this day.

(13:26):
Picture a picture picture and I still have the pictures. Oh what they were doing working on your
body. So you were out of your body observing the recetation attempts? Yeah yeah at one time I looked
down and said okay I'm obviously dead. So this is while they don't even know they're dead

(13:46):
and this is a common alley they feel more alive than they ever have. You know think about that
what you feared most death and the cessation of life turns out to be the opposite. It turns out
to be stepping into more life something Jesus I believe called abundant life. You know it's

(14:09):
interesting Jesus was speaking with the religious sagacies at one point they were among the group
of religious leaders that would ultimately turn against Jesus and have him crucified but they didn't
believe in life after death and at one point he said to them that God is not the God of the dead
but of the living. You're badly mistaken and Jesus on his last night on earth he said

(14:35):
soon the world will no longer see me but you will see me since I live you also will live. Jesus
talks about life that is to come and this is what Indieeers are saying and it's a life that surpasses
this life. You know there's this passage in John 10-10 that I've taught on and quoted many times

(15:00):
talking about how Jesus wants us to have an abundant life more and better life meaning in this life
and I think that's true but I think he meant more than that. You know when he said that
thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy I've come so that they may have life and may have it
abundantly. And yes I think it is better walking with him here but there's a lot that's still wrong

(15:25):
here but what Indieeers tell us is that the life to come is abundantly more than this life and we're
still ourselves as as Dale alluded to we are still we're spirit but we have a spiritual body.
You know Dale said he realized I'm a spirit I have a soul our soul is our our mind and will and

(15:48):
emotions. I had a body an earthly body and interestingly first that's salonians 5-23 Paul talks about
this this kind of three parts of us as well he's he prays may your whole spirit and soul and body
be kept blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ comes again. You know Paul talks about a spiritual body

(16:13):
and I think Paul may have actually had a near death experience himself recorded in Acts chapter 14
when he was stone to death in Lestra they dragged him out of the city and left him for dead
and then he resuscitates the people around him said he gets back up and in second Corinthians 12 he

(16:33):
talks about himself 14 years ago whether in the body or out of the body I don't know God alone
knows but I was taken up to heaven and he talks about a spiritual body he calls it an eternal body in
second Corinthians 5 verse 1 where he says for we know that when this earthly tent we live in is
taken down that is when we die and leave this earthly body Paul saying this we'll have a house in

(17:01):
heaven an eternal body made for us by God himself not by human hands we grow weary in our present
bodies and we long to put on our heavenly bodies like new clothing and that's exactly what people say
it's like it's like an upgrade to this body for we will put on heavenly bodies we will not be

(17:24):
spirits without bodies it's not that we want to die and get rid of these bodies that clothes rather
we want to put on our new bodies so that these dying bodies will be swallowed up by life
more life is what Indie Ears talk about in ourselves but with a new spiritual body

(17:45):
that has new powers as well and that's another commonality near death experiencers sometimes they'll
say I didn't just have five senses I had you know more like 50 senses or 100 senses new senses
blended senses eyesight that's enhanced telescopic that can see thousands of miles as if right up close

(18:08):
communication that's just impeccably pure thought to thought heart to heart travel that is described
different ways sometimes gliding or flying or sometimes with a thought in an instant interestingly
in 1 Corinthians 15 Paul says our bodies are buried in brokenness they'll be raised in glory

(18:33):
they're buried in weakness but they'll be raised in strength but the Greek word is duname
which from which we get dynamite it's they'll be raised in power so these new powers
and and they're buried natural human bodies but they'll be raised spiritual bodies so that's
what Dale talks about he he's in this body but he's following the ambulance somehow Mary you're

(18:57):
going to hear her describe gliding along others travel just like in an instant at the at the speed of
thought now this is not unbiblical is it strange yes you know is it supernatural definitely
but it's not unbiblical in Acts chapter one verses nine after the crucifixion you know Jesus

(19:20):
it's reported appeared over a period of 40 days to over 500 eyewitnesses and at one point it says
they were standing there and after he said this Jesus was taken up before their very eyes
and a cloud hid him from their sight they were looking intently up into the sky as he was going
so apparently Jesus is there with them and remember in this new resurrected spiritual body they

(19:46):
could touch him they could hug him he could eat fish but then he just floats up out of their sight as
they watch a cloud hides him and then he goes from I guess our dimensionality into heaven's dimensionality
so this is not unbiblical fill up in Acts chapter eight verse 39 baptizes this Ethiopian

(20:09):
unique this this guy who was in service of the queen of Africa and then it says the spirit of the
Lord snatched Philip away the unique never saw him again but went on his way rejoicing meanwhile
Philip found himself farther north at the town of azotus all this indie east of sounds weird but

(20:29):
so does the bible many times right so it's not incompatible and it aligns in most most ways another
commonality that near death experience is discussed is this unearthly piece that they feel Dale said
I didn't feel worried I was just like wow Mary will say a similar thing I had one person who had a

(20:52):
near death experience actually quote Philippians four that says the peace of God that surpasses
understanding she said I think that must be what I was experiencing in John 1427 Jesus last night on
earth he says I'm leaving you with a gift peace of mind and heart and the peace I give is the is a
gift the world cannot give so don't be troubled or afraid and it this is an other worldly piece

(21:19):
that near death experience is described Dean Braxton said to me the the peace he felt was beyond peace
he said all I could think of is I fit it was like this everything fits and I'm at so at peace
Karina the woman from Columbia that I interviewed said it was so peaceful and I felt like I was

(21:42):
home it's where I belong now just imagine feeling that you know because we never fully feel
at peace on earth we we have moments of peace and then worry and anxiety come screaming in you know
sometimes we feel like we're where we belong and we fit and and then we feel out of place again

(22:02):
and and nothing's ever just completely right the way it's supposed to be and yet one day it will be
God wants to give you more and more of that even today as we learn to do life with God the peace of
God and that sense of we do belong we do fit even if not always here in this world we fit with him

(22:27):
and as a result it can give us that peace that can help us just like Jesus said to not fear to not
be troubled even when circumstances are anything but peaceful well another commonality that you
heard Dale kind of refer to Mary will talk about as well as time time works differently on the other
side this also is very common some near death experiences have told me there was no time but others

(22:54):
have said no there was time but there was all the time you needed nothing was rushed and I talk
about in the book of magic heaven how you know time we our time is on a one-dimensional timeline
but if if there was even a second dimension of time at each point on that timeline we'd have another
timeline going infinitely in all the time needed at each point and so it feel like every point

(23:23):
on our time would be all the time we needed to spend at each moment and interestingly that's
what the bible says or seems to say as well Peter one of Jesus disciples in second Peter 3/8 says
but do not forget this one thing dear friends with the Lord a day is like a thousand years
and a thousand years are like a day and near death experiences say the same thing and in the bible

(23:48):
in the book of Revelation it says all of heaven was quiet for an hour so there's some semblance of time
and yet there's all the time that you'll ever need listen to how dr. Mary kneels experience is
different from captain Dale blacks but overlaps as well and I also was still me I've been asked whether I

(24:10):
could recognize when I was conscious and then unconscious but for me it was being conscious
and then being more conscious and more aware and at the same time my thought balloon off to
the side was watching all of this thinking wow this is really strange what's going on yes so you knew

(24:31):
you were dead well I didn't at first I was immediately greeted by a group of people spirits beings
welcoming committee what was it that's what some people talk about I absolutely knew that they were
there to welcome me and greet me and make me feel loved and comfortable and I also knew that

(24:53):
they were there to protect me and protect you from what I don't know but you knew that I absolutely
knew that that was part of it even though I don't know from what they were protecting me I mean
what fascinating is I've heard multiple people say that those exact words they're to greet me

(25:13):
welcoming and protect me right like on my journey and that I knew to be true
but at no part during my experience did I see anything from which I needed to be protected
but perhaps they were doing a really good job yeah but you intuitively knew that somehow I did know that

(25:34):
even the communication with these with these people or these beings was not like we're talking
we didn't use our mouths but it was a very pure communication it was just thought to thought
I suppose but even that it's more than that it's almost like a pressure wave I mean it's

(25:54):
almost like just this very pure communication and it wasn't communication meaning I heard it or
thought it in my brain it was more than that they were they look like they had physical form
and like humans they had head arms legs they were wearing robes of sort but they were

(26:20):
absolutely exploding with a pure pure love they were radiating a brilliance that
is certainly indescribable it sort of translucent, pearlescent,
a brilliance of light a brilliance of light just exploding in it and the light was not just

(26:43):
something you would see if you look at the sun you see light and it's blinding this was really a
a light born out of love I don't know quite how else to explain it but it was brilliant and
overpowering I mean it permeated everything and I could be with them and I knew without any doubt

(27:12):
that I had known them and loved them as long as I've existed I knew that they knew me and loved
me as long as I existed there was some sort of shift in terms of time or dimension so that I could
rejoice with them and simultaneously look back at the scene in the river I could
and you were seeing your body being risked? I did I saw my body being pulled ashore I saw the guys start

(27:37):
CPR and I could look at my body and recognize that that was my body that that represented my life
here that it represented my husband my four young children so you still had continuity with your
memories and I did and it was only then that I looked at the river and I thought well I guess I'm dead

(28:01):
that was actually the first time that I sort of recognized that I was dead is you didn't feel
some sense no what did you feel well I I never felt a sudden disconnect from my body it was

(28:22):
some people describe a pop or some sort of violent disconnect and for me it was just this very
seamless transition and I was really really surprised again I had not thought about death in the
context of me and I have a great life I had a great life I had a husband I loved dearly I had four

(28:45):
children that I loved more than I can imagine loving everything anything I had a great job I had
all of the reasons in the world to go back to my body yet I looked at my body and I knew that
I had no intention of returning because in the context of God's love

(29:06):
I wasn't coming back I was absolutely filled with a sense of being home of being where I really
belong where we all really belong it was as though I'd been on this long journey to earth and it was
a great adventure but now I was home death is defeated you know that's that's what these in the

(29:28):
ears are testifying to Paul said when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that
will never die this scripture will be fulfilled death is swallowed up in victory oh death where is
your victory oh death where is your sting had so cool to think about you know that for all those who

(29:51):
trust God who call on the name of God it's just a seamless transition from this life
into more life into abundant life the place that finally feels like home just as Mary said
you know in the ears commonly say this and it's because we were all meant to be

(30:12):
God's children living at home with him that's where we are ultimately meant to be you know
Paul says in that passage we looked at about our new bodies in 2nd Corinthians 5 he says we
would rather be away from these earthly bodies for then we will be at home with the Lord so whether
we are here in this body or away from this body our goal is to please him you know while you're

(30:36):
here on earth make that your goal to please God he's not hard to please as as we just love him
and pay attention and walk with him by faith he says that is what what pleases him
because love requires faith or trust and what God ultimately wants is your heart your love but you

(30:57):
know so many of us we live to please people and many times people that don't even love us
and yet no one loves you more no one cares about you more than God no Peter tells us just how much
God loved you and me and every person he said Christ suffered for our sins once for all time

(31:18):
to bring you safely home to God there's nothing that he wouldn't do no price he wouldn't pay
to bring you and me and everyone who's willing safely home to God a doctor Neil talked also about time
and how there was a time shift a shift in time and distance where even though she was turns out

(31:40):
far away at the the very gates of heaven as we'll see she could also see and be like zoomed up right
there where her body was by the river and Dale talked about a similar experience as we've already
talked about now Mary introduced this new commonality this new concept called the welcoming committee

(32:03):
indie ears commonly described being welcomed usually by family relatives who have died before them
or friends who have gone before even distant relatives I think in Mary's case and Dale's who hadn't
had a lot of people that they knew die it was probably distant relatives who were there to greet them

(32:25):
but in Luke 16 9 Jesus talks about this welcoming committee he says use your worldly resources to
benefit others and make friends then when your possessions are gone they will welcome you to an
eternal home it's amazing isn't it you know this welcoming committee that's what near death
experienced call them but that's what Jesus seems to be referring to and imagine what a great reunion

(32:52):
that's going to be I mean understanding this really changes everything Dale met his grandparents one
that he had never known before so imagine what that's going to be like and imagine how it changes grief
on this earth you know when when my dad died I was first I wasn't sure there was a God I was just

(33:18):
starting to open up to the idea and then he died and I was like forget you God you know because of my
grief because of my pain and I was about to just you know say well you know if that's the way you
treat me forget it you know even if you do exist I'm not following you because I was in pain

(33:38):
but I had a thought in that moment and the thought was you know if there is no God this is all I get
it is just a life of some good but a lot of grief and pain and ultimately it all goes away
and there is no redemption and there's there's no resolution to all the grief and all the sorrow

(34:02):
but if it's true that there is a God and if it's true that there will be this great reunion
then one day it'll all be made right one day I will be welcomed by my dad and my mom now
right there in the front and there will be just like Mary experienced hugging and dancing and

(34:23):
celebration and we will still be ourselves with our memories of earth and we will pick up
where we left off and all of this on earth will change will see grief in the light of life
eternal doesn't change grief you know Mary after she had this near death experience

(34:45):
about 10 years later her 18 year old son was killed and she told me she said I know where he is I know
what it's like it doesn't take away grief we all have to go through grief but it changes the way
we grieve we have hope there's gonna be a great reunion so what are these robes of white

(35:08):
that this welcoming committee are usually wearing and I'll be honest when when I was researching
this and I was hearing it from many different people around the world seeing these people in robes
white as like I don't know where a robe of white forever that sounds horrible right and you won't
don't worry in fact Marv best of an a bank president that I interviewed and many other people

(35:30):
said most of the time we wear and look just like we look and wear the things today you know you don't
always wear the same thing you don't always wear the same thing on the other side marv said he was
wearing like what looked like his favorite golf outfit and he's there at the at the gates of heaven
and he sees people in their cultural garb African togas Indian sari's but sometimes people see

(36:00):
these robes of white now what are they well interestingly in Revelation 7 9 John who saw a vision of
heaven and one in Jesus disciples he says I saw a vast crowd too great to count from every nation
and tribe and people and language standing in front of the throne and before the lamb before Jesus

(36:22):
they were clothed in white robes and held palm branches in their hands they have washed their
robes in the blood of the lamb and made them white okay sounds weird I know but here's what this means
that what Jesus did dying spilling his blood to pay for our wrongs for our sins in order to make

(36:44):
everyone who is willing to accept this gift of forgiveness to make us right with God it talks
about they will be clothed in a robe of white now I believe this is what the Bible refers to is the
robe of righteousness or of right standing with God Isaiah 61 10 says God has dressed me with the

(37:05):
clothing of salvation and draped me in a robe of righteousness I'm like a bridegroom dress for
his wedding or a bride with her jewels now I discovered something interesting about this robe of white
it's not actually white I believe it's actually shining with light and love and this is another

(37:27):
commonality of what people say so I discovered this hearing you know Indians Americans Australians
all these different people and they're describing these these robes but they talk about
how they are translucent I mean when people see them up front they describe them as either
translucent or sometimes a robe made of light and what I believe they are is they allow the glory of

(37:55):
God to shine through us toward others and that's what Mary experienced that's also what Dale
will talk about experiencing talked about that they were just exploding with this light that was
palpable that was love and Mary said there was this there was a celebration they danced and they hugged
and you know all of this when I first heard it you know and I think I think this happens to some

(38:21):
Christians who haven't really studied it sounds so new agey and you know like people of light that's
not biblical but actually I discovered it is the Jewish prophet Daniel who wrote in about 400 to 500
BC says an angel told him this this is in Daniel chapter 12 multitudes who sleep in the dust of the
earth will awake some to everlasting life others to shame and everlasting contempt those who are wise will

(38:49):
shine like the brightness of the heavens and those who lead many to righteousness like the stars forever
and ever there it is in the Old Testament Jewish prophets but Jesus said the same thing he said then
the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their father whoever has ears to hear

(39:10):
let them hear and indie ears around the world are confirming all these things with their testimonies
maybe because Jesus day is coming soon I don't know but what I do know is we will share in God's glory
he promises that and that is a commonality of what near death experience or say this light

(39:34):
and this love coming through people indie ears experience in themselves but they also experience
sharing with one another now God is love that's what John one of Jesus disciples said and the glory of
God is this light and love and life that fills everything in heaven in Revelation 21 says

(39:57):
the city shown with the glory of God okay and then Paul tells us in Romans 8 we share in his
sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory our present sufferings are not worth
comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us now just think about this you know what could be

(40:21):
greater than the love and the life of the source of everything we love about life imagine sharing
in that love and that life and that's exactly what Paul is saying all our our sufferings all our
trials you know they're but for a moment but when we use them to lean into God not to curse God and

(40:47):
turn away from them but instead to ask him to help us through it it's producing something in us which
I believe is expanding our our capacity to share in the glory of God the very love and life and light
of God that one day we will exchange we will share with one another and you'll see there is no reward

(41:10):
on earth there's no amount of money there's no power there's no anything no ecstasy on earth that can
compare with what it feels like to share in God's glory I was looking at my body again and a
image came that occurred at it happened in my life it's strange but I saw an image that flashed

(41:37):
into my mind and it was like a little YouTube video being played for me and I was 11 years old
and I was kneeling at a church summer camp in Southern California a place called Cedar
Creston I had I had asked God to forgive me of my sins I had invited Jesus into my heart as a little

(42:05):
kid and man I was sincere about that decision and I remembered it now looked at myself in a sense and
go wow man I was genuine are you are you experiencing this like as a review of your life or is it just
that particular scene in this case it was one scene and that was the scene there were no other

(42:27):
scenes at that time nothing else happened but boy was it revealing because I realized that I was
no longer that tender hearted kid and I had become so selfish and so self absorbed and I felt horrible
ashamed that my life had come to this and I was actually thinking at the moment gosh I'm so young

(42:52):
to have died at 19 and look what has happened and then all of a sudden the guilt the shame that I
was feeling started to disappear I started feeling lighter and and I started moving out of the room
backwards still looking forwards but moving out backwards and then down the hallway and moving

(43:15):
backwards and then sideways and then started moving forward and now I'm looking forward ahead of me
eyes moving my eyes in the same direction as my movement and hard to explain but I know you're an
expert at this subject but so you'll understand this but I started moving just very rapidly out of

(43:41):
the hospital out of the atmosphere and started moving into what appeared to be outer space that's
what it looked like so so you you leave your body or your spiritual body leaves the hospital you're
still seeing the environments of earth yeah I'm looking at earth because I'm seeing the hospital

(44:04):
the room and then almost like taking off in a rocket ship and you're sitting on the nose of the
rocket you know not inside of a capsule but on the nose of the rocket and yet if you can imagine
looking forward not backwards anymore just everything looking forward and I do remember seeing

(44:28):
just lights lots of little spheres of light could not determine the size but thousands and then
perhaps hundreds of thousands and then millions and I am where were they they were zooming past and I

(44:48):
was thinking these thoughts what is that and I began to realize these are not planets these aren't
suns these are angelic beings and they're going where I just came from and they were going to
you know toward earth as I was going toward away from earth of course I still didn't know where I
was going but I realized these were angelic beings how did you know that I knew it in my heart

(45:14):
so there's a way of knowing that yeah I began to realize that this is the way it's done
this is how it's done is that I would have a question and the answer would come right through
my heart interesting I took my mind with me but now my brain my brain's back on earth but I still
have a mind so what do you moving toward a moving toward an incredible I began to see a small bright

(45:44):
brilliant glow that got bigger and bigger and bigger in the center of the glow was the most intense
bright white light but that's the earthly words hard to put that into a better term but
my eyes were obviously completely enhanced completely strengthened it I must have had my eyes

(46:10):
couldn't have been a human I couldn't see all of this with the brightness of the of the light
would be so bright that it would burn and destroy a human eye and yet the light as bright as it was
made me only want to look more into it and the warmth of it made me attracted to it and it didn't burn

(46:35):
it it didn't hurt it was it was like medicine you know there was life in that light and I begin to
learn later but a more about what is in that light and I saw that and I get closer to it and closer
to it and I knew of course I'm wondering what is that light the basic and I knew that it was the white

(47:01):
was God he was the source I wasn't looking at some rabie or some sun I was looking at God the source
and this light the light is not God the light is what emanates from God and in that light there's
life in the light there's love in that light and they're all connected they're intertwined you cannot

(47:30):
separate it's like talking about God you can't take the light out of God without taking the love
and the life you you have it all you either have all of it or you have none of it you can reject God
and go your own way and do your own thing but when you embrace God fully you will get his light
you will get the life and the love and the love is transforming but I was beginning to recognize

(47:58):
that I'm being infused with power like there's some nuclear power plant on the inside of me you know
or something but the the strength and the power is coming from the light and that light is giving
energy and the light was within you too it was coming to and through me one of the things that

(48:20):
happened as I was being held was that my life was laid bare and I'd never really thought about a
life review other than the Hollywood version you know your life flashing across the sky and feeling
good about some things and not so good about other things but we did go through a life review and
it was nothing like I would have imagined what was the life review like my life was laid bare

(48:46):
for all it's good and bad and one of the things we did was look at many many many events
throughout my life that I would have otherwise called terrible or horrible or sad or bad or tragic
and instead of looking at an event in isolation or looking at how it impacted me and my little world

(49:10):
I had the most remarkable experience of seeing the ripple effects of the event when seen
25 30 30 35 times removed what do you mean you mean one life to another impact an event had
on me on my little world but then also on other people in the world and looking at

(49:33):
how an event that I would have said was bad changed me and changed others such that again and again
and again I was shown that indeed it's true that beauty comes of all things and it was really a life
changing experience you know there's there's that verse that always gets quoted when bad things

(49:57):
happen right that God works all things together for good for those who love him I mean you almost
think it was like seeing how that happens or yes it was being shown very concretely again and again
and again the problem of course is that we don't generally have the ability to see things

(50:19):
from a distance right we see things only from our own perspective or how perhaps we think it might
affect someone else I've had many many people over the years approach me and say oh boy I heard about
that kayak accident that must have been the most horrible thing ever but in fact it's the greatest

(50:41):
gift I've ever received and it's like that for everything we can look at events or obstacles or set
backs in our own life that happened 10 years ago you lose a job and you're devastated but you look
back 10 years and you're so grateful because loss of that job set you up for the next opportunity

(51:01):
and it was remarkable to be shown so many times the truth of that verse the truth of God's promise
that there really is beauty that comes from all things so as you're as you're seeing your life are
you are you seeing all the events of your life all at once and is Jesus commenting or what

(51:26):
what's the conversation or was there one there's conversation but not exactly like you and I
are having it was more of a sort of a pure communication and I I never like to use the word telepathy

(51:49):
because it sounds a little too out there for me but it was this sort of immediate sense of communication
what made me understand how God can speak to each person in their own language because it wasn't
using words it was communicating on a very essential level I don't know how else to describe it

(52:18):
and yes we were talking about these events and Jesus was showing me this and saying look at what it did
look at how that event impacted this person that impacted that person that impacted that person
you know this life review that Mary talked about in Dale as well as the most profound impact

(52:44):
on people having near death experiences we could do an entire podcast on it I'm sure we will
but the life review is varied many people because time doesn't work the same way they re-experience
every moment of their life as if in an instant but they're reliving it and it's like this three
dimensional panoramic they're watching it they're with God experiencing all their thoughts and feelings

(53:09):
but there are also many times able to experience how it impacted other people the thoughts and the
feelings that every act of kindness or every mean thing how that affected other people and even how
it rippled through humanity as Mary was talking about she saw how God used everything for good

(53:32):
you know just like it says in Romans 828 that when we seek him when we follow him
even the things that we would have said were tragic or horrible or bad he can use for good it doesn't
mean those things were necessarily good but the life review just reminds us of what Jesus said first
of all in Matthew 22 when he reiterated what God said to Moses that you know he's asked what's the

(53:59):
greatest commandment and he said the first and greatest commandment is to love God with all you have
but the second he said is like it in other words it can't be you know taken away from what it means to
love God love your neighbor as you love yourself and then he said this he said do those two love God
and love people and you fulfill all the commands of scripture so that's what the the Bible and all

(54:25):
its commands are really about this is consistent near death experiencers whether they knew God or not
in his presence having a life review come back saying two things God is love and what he cares most about
is how we treat or how we love one another thoroughly biblical but also what Jesus says in Matthew 25

(54:46):
when he said but when the son of man comes in his glory and all the angels with him he will sit upon
his glorious throne and all the nations will be gathered to his presence and then the king the Lord
will say to those on his right come you who are blessed by my father inherit the kingdom prepared for you

(55:06):
from the creation of the world for I was hungry and you fed me I was thirsty you gave me drink I
was a stranger you invited me into your home I was naked and you gave me clothing I was sick and you
cared for me I was in prison and you visited me he says then the righteous ones will reply Lord
when we ever see you hungry and feed you or all these other things and the king will say truly I tell

(55:32):
you when you did it for one of the least of these my brothers and sisters in the words the least
people you were doing it to me so this near death experience testimony of the life review is
thoroughly biblical now one of the things that trips up Christians and and honestly

(55:54):
caused me a lot of confusion for many years is that near death experiencers many of them would say things
like as I'm watching this I'm seeing all my good and all my bad and they said but God wasn't judging
me you know God was not condemning me God was loving me he was supporting me I was judging myself
and now some of them insane that will then make an interpretation and say see there is no judgment

(56:21):
we only judge ourselves so we just have to stop judging ourselves and it's all good well that's
an interpretation because what the near death experience shows is that people clearly see their
good and their bad there is no hiding from the truth in this life we can rationalize we can pretend

(56:41):
you know we can make excuses but on the other side consistently near death experiencers know there's
no hiding from the truth now consistently God does love them God is love he cannot love the children
he made even when they do wrong and and that's the difference between God and us you know when

(57:03):
when our children do wrong sometimes we withdraw our love because of their behavior well God is not
imperfect like we are you know the right thing is that we never withdraw our love we we try to
correct but love is differentiated from their behavior and so of course God loves them he doesn't

(57:23):
withdraw his love even when people do things with thought or action that are against his will people
would say we'll see there is no judgment so this is not the God of the Bible but Matthew 1236 Jesus says
I tell you that everyone will give an account on the day of judgment for every empty word they have

(57:44):
spoken for by your words will you be acquitted and by your words will you be condemned in other words
this is what the what the the life review which I think is just a preview is telling us that you
know if we if we say we've done no wrong we don't need God's forgiveness we don't need what Jesus

(58:08):
did for us by our own words we will see that we were wrong on the other hand by our own words of
acknowledging our need for God and and wanting his forgiveness we will be acquitted God never withdraws
his love though and by the way this is what it says you know in that famous verse John 3 16 God

(58:31):
so loved the world he gave his only son whoever believes in him will never perish but have eternal life
but what it says after that John 3 17 God sent his son into the world not to judge the world
but to save the world through him so we shouldn't be surprised that this is exactly what near death
experiences feel from God and experience in the life review but the life review is not the judgment of

(59:01):
God that doesn't happen until the end of human history that's what the Bible tells us so this is just
evidence of the truth of what Jesus said in Matthew 10 26 there is nothing concealed that will not
be disclosed or hidden that will not be made known and Paul says in 1 Corinthians 4 5 therefore judge

(59:21):
nothing you know we're not to judge judge nothing before the appointed time wait until the Lord comes
he will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart
and that's what people experience in their life review at that time each will receive their praise
from God now this is really important because people miss this the life review is not just

(59:48):
it's not to punish all our wrongs have been forgiven if we've accepted God's forgiveness
and what he's done in through Christ so this life review for the child of God is to reward
it's to receive praise from God that's what Paul says here for every little act of kindness

(01:00:10):
every loving thing done in order to please God and to serve humanity it counts and let that
encourage you every little thing counts and nothing will be missed and interestingly it's angels that
many Neurodeth experiencers tell us are recording all these things in books that it says in the book of

(01:00:32):
Revelation will one day be opened so our our lives are being recorded by angels I believe because they
too are learning from our experience but angels the encounter of angels is another commonality
Neurodeth experiencers have Dale talked about two angels that were actually flanking him he didn't say it

(01:00:55):
in the video here but he he did in other places as he was you know shooting off through the universe
toward what will be heaven but he also sees these lights moving toward him that he asked the question
and this knowledge comes to him that they're angels now interestingly in the book of Acts Peter

(01:01:16):
is in prison and says suddenly there was a bright light in the cell what was the bright light from
an angel the Lord stood before Peter and so angels also apparently shine with the the light of
God like like Indieeers describe that to his biblical and then both Mary and Dale talked about this

(01:01:38):
perfect communication that happens many call it telepathic that is trip Christians up in the past
for some reason but as Mary said it's it's not just thought to thought it's more than that
it's imagine being able to communicate not only all your thoughts but all the connected thoughts

(01:01:59):
and your feelings and your heart and all of it nothing missing and you understood that from the other
and that the other understood that from you I mean can you imagine I want to do a whole podcast
on that because so many of the problems that marriages face relationships face is that our
communication is so limited and we're so impatient we're so quick to speak and want to be understood

(01:02:26):
but so slow to try to slow down and listen and understand the communication of heaven reminds us of
that we need to be more patient with one another but even now this is how God speaks to us you know
in 1 Corinthians 2 16 it says who can know the Lord's thoughts who knows enough to teach him

(01:02:47):
but we understand these things for we have the mind of Christ now think about this you know we want
God to speak audibly to us because we think that'll be that's more direct but it's actually not
I mean right now I'm trying to get my thoughts into your mind but I'm having to use you know
the the microphone and my limited words and your ears to hear and you're probably thinking other things

(01:03:13):
what would be way more direct is if I could put all my thoughts and feelings of what I'm trying to
communicate directly into your mind now you could be thinking about something else you could you
could say let's a dumb thought and reject it but that would be more direct communication if I could
put all my thoughts and impressions into your mind directly I can't do that thank God for you for

(01:03:38):
your sake but but God can and it is how he communicates with us now many times Jesus said whoever has
ears to hear let him hear what the Spirit says and that's because we have to learn how to hear
that what's called a still small voice by the prophet Isaiah in our thoughts in in our heart and learn

(01:04:01):
to respond but that's probably another podcast in and of itself another commonality that
Dale and Mary talked about is this complete knowledge that people say they have Dale said you know
he started to understand that that's the way it works he has a question and as soon as he has the
question the answer would come directly into his heart Mary said the same thing that on the on the

(01:04:26):
threshold of this city of God every question she ever had was answered now this two trips up Christians
or has in the past because near that the experiences will say like on the other side I was like God I
knew everything I had universal knowledge okay well not so much and Mary even pointed out and other

(01:04:50):
near-death experienceers have pointed out what it was is as soon as you have a question the answer comes
and so in terms of all the questions we've ever had it would feel like universal knowledge but she
said she didn't have divine knowledge sometimes it sounds like that's what they're saying she said I

(01:05:12):
didn't know everything God knows and I didn't know everything about God but it would feel like you know
everything because every question you have as fast as you have it is answered Dale said though we will
be learning forever more and more about God the knowledge of God is endless but it is interesting
first Corinthians 1312 says all that I know now this is Paul speaking is partial and incomplete

(01:05:38):
but then I will know everything completely just as God knows me completely so again even this
sense of knowing every question every answer to every question is biblical and isn't that encouraging too
because to think that there will be a day when all of these confusing questions all these wise

(01:06:03):
why God you know I've asked my my fair share of why God and there have been many things that I've
been very confused about but when you realize that one day these questions that haunt us will
find answer they will be resolved that can give us a sense of patience of endurance of trusting God

(01:06:25):
even when we don't understand the day that we live together in God's world our exploration and
our learning it will be awesome and it will be endless so in your book you describe flying into
is it the New Jerusalem what is it and and describe the beauty and what you saw I get this incredible

(01:06:49):
airborne view a descending slowing down airborne view of the city of gold and it's city it's a city
that's walled over over the city were majestic mountains that were as gorgeous as any that could
be ever seen however they did not look that different than earth I wasn't disappointed by them I'm

(01:07:13):
not saying that inside the city I could see we'll start from foreground to back if you like I could see
the townships as I called them homes that people lived in homes that were likely to be created for

(01:07:34):
the people of heaven there were small what we would call like condos here there were
single family residences that we would call here there were huge palaces and I could see that but
and this is all inside the wall right on the other side of the wall I saw another thing and how big
is this city I mean can you tell I could not tell other than it was beyond the horizon both directions

(01:08:00):
there's countryside inside so that it's a it's gorgeous beautiful all of the adjectives times a thousand
so you live in Jackson whole Wyoming one of the most beautiful places on earth how did that compare to
the this beautiful path leading to heaven one of the problems that I and most people had when they

(01:08:26):
came back from a near death experience is that even the most intense beauty here on earth even the most
intense love here on earth is very very pale in comparison to the intensity of the love and to the
intensity of the beauty in God's world everything was far more intense the colors were beyond anything

(01:08:49):
we could ever experience and I will say that I was able to see many again people angels very busy
and I don't know what they were doing inside the inside they were all very busy I don't know what they
were doing but they were doing something and clearly doing God's work you know I don't know if you

(01:09:12):
caught all of that but I want to remind you these are these are spine surgeons commercial airline pilots
why would they be making this stuff up and yet they're talking about this other worldly city and
even the the archway and the gates that they go through into the city and they're in agreement but

(01:09:36):
they've never talked about it they had never even met when I interviewed each one of them but many
near death experiences talk about seeing this this city they call it a a crystal city or some say it
was a city of of gold but you know kind of like Dale said gold it look gold from a distance but up

(01:09:58):
close it looked solid and other colors but also transparent and clear what's fascinating is this is
exactly what John one of Jesus disciples was trying to describe when he said he was taken to heaven
and he writes the book of Revelation and look at what he writes in Revelation 21 it's a little long but

(01:10:21):
I'm going to point out the the commonalities here John says so he took me in the spirit to a great
high mountain and he showed me the holy city and this is the same mountain range Dale described he
said it was you know beyond the Himalayas but not unlike earth but just beautiful and the city

(01:10:44):
John says shown with the glory of God sparkled like a precious stone like Jasper as clear as crystal
so again these two different things see God has prepared a place for you and for me for all of his
children for all who want him and you were made to be his unique one of a kind specially loved

(01:11:08):
child do you realize there is no other that God made for his love like you so you have a unique
role to play in the heart of God in the city of God in the kingdom of God you know Jesus said believe
in God believe also in me in my father's house there are many dwelling places if it were not so would

(01:11:34):
I've told you that I go to prepare a place for you and if I go and prepare a place for you I
will come again and will take you to myself so that where I am there you may be also this is a place
that as Mary and as Don Piper said it's it's bustling with life they said it's it's people that are

(01:11:56):
busy it's not a boring place people are in the zone you know when you're in the zone you're
you're you're creating or you're doing some project and you're just lost time is gone because you're
you're so enamored with it that's what heaven is like it's exploration it's creating it's work
it's play it's parties and festivals that's all in the Bible Jesus said that Jesus said there will be

(01:12:20):
roles and responsibilities he said some will be given the responsibility of governing nations
and Jesus said whoever is faithful to God with what we've been given here on this earth the things
that won't last he said that's who can be trusted with more there with things that will last God will
say well done good and faithful servant you've been faithful with a few things I will put you in

(01:12:43):
charge of many things come and share your master's happiness listen to how Mary and Dale talk about
another Indie commonality seen Jesus all right so let's go back to when Jesus was holding you your
underwater you're aware of his presence did you see him during that particular experience I was

(01:13:09):
being held so I wasn't looking at him during a subsequent experience I did see him what did you
look like everybody wants to know everybody asks I know and my answer is very clear even though
it's nonsensical and I would say that he looked like bottomless kindness and compassion

(01:13:30):
and those are not words that make sense because those aren't words that we use visually but that is
what he looked like it wasn't a matter of looking at someone and saying oh you know he had brown hair
and you know whatever he looked like bottomless kindness and compassion and in terms of

(01:13:51):
his outward appearance I would say the same thing as the other people I saw which is a
a physicality head arms legs and again this this filamentous robe exploding with love
but I also will say that I'm not entirely sure that that's how he always is I mean I think that

(01:14:16):
well he says he fills the universe right I mean there must be something yeah what I understood
and if he had looked like something else maybe I wouldn't have understood yeah but in terms of hair
eyes that sort of thing everyone asked well okay what a clear eyes did he have and I would absolutely

(01:14:37):
say that he does not look like the childhood pictures you know with the nice blonde hair and
blue eyes I never saw blonde Jesus oh I have you're up you're up with the Swedes and Scandinavians
that's exactly right it is true my childhood picture is blonde hair and blue eyes really yes

(01:14:57):
but I would say that just like the colors of the pathway it was as though his hair his eyes his
skin were all the colors simultaneously it was as though he he was everything he is everything
and that made sense to me at the time because if you look around any room let alone any any part

(01:15:23):
of the world there are so many hair colors eye colors skin shades we are all created beings and why
wouldn't we all be reflected in him yeah yeah but was there a physicality yes no he was sitting on a
rock and I was sitting on this did you touch him embrace or no not for most of it we were I was sitting

(01:15:50):
in this field that again was just so beautiful I mean just beyond my own ability to explain it with
that sort of that late afternoon sun that is just so incredibly beautiful and I was sitting and he
was sitting on a rock we were just chatting and we were talking more about some of the reasons I had

(01:16:13):
been sent back to earth and we talked about this mandate to share my experiences with other people
did you did you see Jesus later I did that was the last thing that happened after going through
the city and asking questions and going through at the very last moment I had been ushered closer

(01:16:36):
and closer toward the light toward the light toward the light the light that's in the center of the city
yeah and then there was a stairway that was near the glass sea which it looked like a sea and a
stairway that went up and a large angel with the most power if we would say that and it was clear

(01:17:01):
that he was basically in charge of that stairway and I began to communicate to this angel heart to
heart again it's hard to say did we talk it seemed like it but then it seemed like we didn't this
communication was just impeccably pure and I began to recognize I can't go up there I can't go up

(01:17:26):
I can't go up and still go back and I was thinking go back go back what do we meet what's that mean
and as soon as I'm thinking go back the angel moved just to the side but I looked into the eyes of
the warmest kindness most wonderful I knew this was the son of God I knew this was my savior

(01:17:54):
in all of a sudden my knees buckled my legs lost their strength and I just went down I couldn't stand
I was I was not worthy this I was not worthy to stand in this presence funny that I didn't feel
worthy to be in heaven yet I knew I was worthy in the early part I was somehow given this granted

(01:18:17):
this authority but I had this supernatural gift that I was worthy somebody had done something for me
he had yes and so I'm down on my just falling down and I see his feet and I grabbed them

(01:18:38):
and I hold his feet and I see the scars and I know this is the son of God he's my savior he's my Lord it is
because of him he died for everybody it's so cool Jesus said that I have come not to condemn the

(01:18:58):
world but that the world through me will be saved and it was because of that he was he's not
condemning anybody it doesn't matter what you've done in your life what sins you've done including
murder it doesn't matter what you've done all of it is is forgivable God can forgive anybody of

(01:19:20):
anything and then we have this free gift that we call salvation you and I know and that's what you
felt in his feet was I just but to describe this experience I just stopped at his feet and I
was worshipping him in down on the ground there and I heard the voice Dale do you love me

(01:19:48):
that's it do you love me and I'm trying to think of all these words to say
and I'm getting ready to say in a sense I'm getting ready to say but I've said nothing
and I'm getting ready to say of course I love you Lord I remember who you are what you do I'm

(01:20:11):
getting ready to say that and he bends down a whisper into my ear and I'm now back
do you love me you know that's really all God wants to know do you love me do you love me enough to turn

(01:20:32):
back to me to to admit your wrongs and that you need my forgiveness but also do you want my
leadership do you want me to be God that's what it means to love God do you love me
and all he needs is a heart telling him that what I hope you've enjoyed this podcast I hope you'll
share these podcasts with your friends and your family to help them if they're skeptics they're

(01:20:59):
like I was or you know just to encourage them in their faith as well so be sure to like it and
subscribe and you know do all that and hope to see you in the next podcast
(upbeat music)