Retired Soldier Explains the Difference Between Lashkar, Jaish and Hizbul Terrorists | IOD S3 E6

In this gripping episode of In Our Defence, host Dev Goswami sits down with Major LS Chaudhary (Retd.) to explore the reality of counter-terror operations in Jammu and Kashmir, and the rigorous training life at the National Defence Academy (NDA) and Indian Military Academy (IMA). From close-quarters combat against Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorists to the psychological toll of surviving a life-altering injury, Major Chaudhary gives a rare, first-person account of what it truly means to serve in a conflict zone.

The episode also focuses on the reality of counter-terrorism in Jammu and Kashmir, especially in the aftermath of the Pahalgam terror attack, and what people usually get wrong about such operations.

Finally, the episode dives deep into the discipline, myths, and unfiltered truths of military training—the relationship between cadets and drill ustaads, the secret rule-breaking, iconic NDA/IMA moments, and the real story of actor Hrithik Roshan being corrected on set by a drill instructor during the filming of Lakshya.

Produced by Prateek Lidhoo

Sound mix by Aman Pal

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is India Today, podcasts Operation your Bilfana. So don't
lose a limb. Either lose your life or come back
one hundred percent in time, Rose Terrace, Saab technics, change Correa,
Apkaba's limited mentaw or Forge as a foggy, I would say,

(00:22):
you want to remove Forge from there?

Speaker 2 (00:24):
Do it?

Speaker 1 (00:25):
If you've got guts, do it, And I say it
open on open TV. You know I've seen you have
I don't know, legs and legs of followers. If you've
got guts, do it. In nineteen nineties, Rush Rifles was
created and it is because of Rush Rifles that we
still have jamushmin in India. And then the kind of
pressure that term forces have Chilrese civilian Killaki, then vote

(00:47):
who's there to protect love? There is a lot of
confusion when the operations take place. You know, firefight breaks out,
So now firefight Chilka and firefight Keba mirimobile, pey Bosca,
colms a civilian Tonimara. Now I get confused and Terrish
Maria I should feel happy about it. The marit wealthy
is civil and Maria original. What should I think about?

(01:08):
So this is the kind of pressure that you have
what could.

Speaker 3 (01:11):
Have gone wrong? Attack up, fodge, postium, attack side pasic.

Speaker 1 (01:21):
Again depending on other the many there would be stages.
The most stages say cross beach Man, they would be guides,
so local guides on way though those guys will be
guiding them. Mature is so those kind of things. So
there will be people who will be reading the pattern.

(01:42):
So it becomes for Forge also, it becomes like we
have to be so innovative and so creative that Rojimera Drill.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
Welcome to season three of Another Defense, the podcast that
takes you inside the world of conflict. I'm your host
Deve Goswami and every week I sit down with experts
and retired officers from the Army, Navy and Air Force
to decode all things to do with India security and
explore what it truly means to serve. Get ready for

(02:13):
stories of strategy, sacrifice and strength. This is In Our Defense.
Welcome to another episode of In Our Defense. I'm your
host Ave Goswami and on this podcast, I bring in
retired officers from either the Indian Army, the Navy or
the Air Force to talk about their experience in the services,

(02:34):
to talk about their lived life that lived experience and
sort of stories that they can tell us from what
they have learned while being in the forces and give us,
like you know, just a look into what really happens
and what is actually like to be on the front
lines today with me is Major als Chradri. Major, thank
you so much for being on this podcast. How are you?

Speaker 1 (02:57):
I'm very well and thanks there for having me here
at all.

Speaker 3 (03:00):
Major Shrowdhary is a veteran of the Indian Army. He
was in this in service for over a decade. He
was commissioned in two thousand and three from the Military
Academy UH and he had to seek premature retirement in
around twenty fourteen because of an injury he suffered during
a ct of counter terrorism of in Jamshmira that have
been talked about in the country right now. Is that

(03:21):
you know what could have gone wrong? Stap nefodge beis
but pastium attack site psicosick there from you if you
would like to know and understand what it is like
to be operating in train like that and how complex
such operations really are. But first we'll talk about Jamshmir.

(03:42):
We will talk about your time there and we'll talk
about especially an injury you suffered during a counter terrorism
of now major h Having bullets fired at you sounds scary,
scary as hell, So I want to begin with that
directly right now before we go to the larger aspect.
I'man to talk about that one particular operation, what it

(04:05):
is like to have bullets coming at you and when
you do get injured the way you did. Thankfully it
was not a bullet injury, but you suffered permanent damage
to your shoulder. So when you are in an encounter,
when you have bullets flying at you, what do you
actually go through?

Speaker 1 (04:24):
Well with this question, you know you pushed back me
almost a decade back when I was actually there in
that operation, So let me tell you, Like, there are
two aspects of it. When you see as a third person,
you might see the bullets flying and you know all
the action as we see in the movies. But when
you're actually on the ground, so you've been trained for something,

(04:46):
so you know how the bullets are fired, what kind
of sound it is. So we undergo an extensive training
both at NDA as well as I am, and then
when I got injured, so I already had one full
counter terrorism tenure at back of me. So I had
that experience. I had that knowledge and all the training.

(05:08):
Now when you go in there, so you go with
very clear mind. So there is a task that you
have to do. It's just like some other task. The
only thing is you know there is a certain level
of risk involved. But then that is what the whole
nation is entrusted us with. Now when you go, you
see the terrisk coming and you engage into the firefight.

(05:32):
Now those bullets are coming at you. Actually you don't
think much. You don't think much. A lot of people
have asked me next day, who are so whose time pay?
While I'm planning for the operation, while I'm in the
operation where that firefight is going on, nothing comes to
the mind. There's only one thing. It is my duty

(05:54):
and I have to do it the best I can.
So bullets are a Now I can obviously, you know,
I can describe everything like this guy is sitting right
in front. You know, thus meter door bat came and
knealing position. He's aiming at me and firing those bullets.
Those can muscle, mysays, a flesh nickele tie could see that.
The cry. But now when you ask me, I can

(06:15):
explain to great depths, but time pay it's like all
happening in fractions of seconds. It's like it's all firecre flesh.
I'm a may fire cutchucom So my muscles, my spine
is acting faster than even my brain. And that's all
because of the training that we undergo, so all thanks

(06:35):
to NDA I AM the other courses and training that
we do at different institutions. So thanks to that that
my reflexes were like this, and it's not just about me,
it's about any soldier. So we are trained and groomed
in that way to Athia. Bullet next day is the
other filo. It was so close.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
So the next day, like you talked about, so before
we began recording, you were telling me how that accident
happened when a bullet hit your bulletproof further west and
you think you fell. I felt felt because of which
you hurt your shoulder, and you didn't know even for
a few days that how bad the injury was. I
think it was only a trip to the hospital where
the doctors finally said that's it. So can you tell

(07:20):
us what you went through when you heard those heard
that assessment from the doctors that you know this is
it for you will not probably be able to be
in the infantry. At least you might you know, end
up doing some administrative role within army, but infantry on
the field Janape cops janau.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
So I tell you, like there are two parts to it,
So before going to the doctor, I'll tell you what
exactly happened on that time. So the firefight begins. I
fall from that. So there's something like, you know, you
have those fields and there are partitions. So in mountains
you have those stone partitions. We call it bunt the
cape bun bunny is there and there is that that

(08:03):
corn fields. So they are like seven eight feet Highkika.
It's like seven eight feet high up visibility and amilty
and when you move so it's clearly visible. You know,
the crops they move and make a lot of noise.
And we had very limited time, so we took the
bunny and started going a firefight. SA I just fall
down and along with me, my buddy also falls and

(08:26):
make the shooting. Pain is there the bud and then
firing is going on, so you forget the pain and
injury and you get into the firefight. So we just
take cover of that bunny and we start firing at
the terrace. Now firefight has broken. Everybody knows a lot
of noise and we passed the messages and all under officercumps. Abi, okay,

(08:51):
I'm injured, and you get that lull in the firefight
to Masami October it was first, So it's then I
talked to my buddy. But he's the only person who
I can talk to actually at that point of time.
So I tell him he was Sanjeef, so, I said Sanjeefer.
So he takes out a pain killer he hands over

(09:13):
to me. I consume that and we are into five
fight oppreationential. That is back then four five days go by.
I talked to the doctor in between. Doctor says, sir,
muscle injury yoga engineer, muscle injury yoga. You have a
pain killer? I said, have pain killer. Fine, So this
thing continues and then the pain doesn't go. The doctor says,

(09:35):
so there has to be something serious. I go to
ninety two based hospital, Schirnagar Mahape. I meet with the
specialist and he does some test and he says, Chadi,
he made a signal like this, I said, Sir Matlepka.
He says, uh, game over. Now what he meant is

(09:55):
possibly your promotions and careers that seized almost and that
happened also, So that's the time. You know, when you're
in the operations, nobody goes and you know nobody wants
to get killed or something. So you go into an
operation with the mindset that I'll go I'll do my best,
I'll be successful or your operation. Those kinds of things

(10:21):
you go with that and mary career profile tiltreasure. I'm
a major shub, I have to get into my a period.
I have to get good reports, I have to do
very good staff college, the colonel one night, and you
know those kinds of things. So you start thinking up
a senior. So your thought process goes there and beach mass.
Suddenly everything stops when somebody tells you thank you, so

(10:45):
like an army, you know when officers among officers, when
we used to talk there, uh gossip child the operation
your bil okay mc lou medical category M. So don't
lose a limb, either lose your life or come back

(11:07):
one hundred percent intact. And then the first happens to
you that you sustain some kind of injury, which is.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
Life loud at any point did you think of that,
by the way, that you were better off having that
injury and not having that bullet actually pierce your body
fatally wounding.

Speaker 1 (11:31):
You one hundred times every day, in fact, every morning
when I get up, So whenever there is a cold
breeze or something, I have this pain, or whenever you know,
I'm like AC temperature is low enough, I get that pain.
And every time this thought comes, I wish I was
not wearing a bulletproof that day. Wow, I wish I
got a GSW. You know, the GSW is the way George,

(11:57):
So you always get that thought. And once, like I
was sitting with my friends and we were right outside
my house and in a chalk charaha, and I said,
you know what others didn't prove me panata to is
pay major LSU three mark. So right now we can,
you know, love it out. And that's perfectly fine. But

(12:20):
this goes to I think almost every soldier, nobody wants
to get injured or hurt or come back that somebody's
having pity on you. Thankfully, I did not lose my
arm or something. It's just an injury which nobody can
easily see unless I show it to somebody. But there
are people who lose their limbs, who lose their eyes,
and a lot of things happen, and you know, for

(12:41):
a few days everybody talks good and then everybody forgets
and this guy has to live his life with that
problem every day. So it's something like that with the
small injury like mine. If I take a turn and
you know, it pains. If I lift something, it paints,
and I go back those ten years back. Imagine somebody

(13:01):
who doesn't have a limb or doesn't have an eye,
and he has to look into the mirror every morning shave.
So no soldier wants to get injured. He says, ya yahya,
that's better.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
When you reach that sort of folk. If I may
see in your life where you now had to decide
kiare I was help bent on a career in this
but upmga, what was that like for you?

Speaker 1 (13:24):
So I tell you like I'm an X n DA
so X and D is like you've done your twelfth
and you go into a kind of a different stream altogether.
Now you don't know anything. You just know defense, you
talk of, you know, those kind of things, which is
a total different world than ninety percent of the world.
Doesn't even talk about it. So the only thing I

(13:46):
knew was fortune. And now suddenly I realize I cannot
go up the ladder. Now I have to make a choice.
Either I keep doing administrative work everywhere wherever, like I
was in Deli when I quit, or because now that
fun is gone. The fun is no more there in
my life. That risk that you know, rush of the adrenaline,
it's no more there. So watch next. So should I

(14:11):
become a clerk? Like maybe we use this word for
like I s officers, they are baboos, So the same
thing I'll also be doing because they are also sitting
in the office and doing policy work. They're doing good work,
great work. But then it does not have that rush
of adrenaline. It has more of your brain working, and

(14:32):
you know those kind of your eyes are working with
specs and all. I started imagining myself, I'll be wearing
specs and sitting with some papers and files, and I'll
be I'll drown in the files. Maybe, so I thought,
you know what, if I have to do this kind
of a job, why not you know, quit and go
out and corporate. So that kind of thought came to
my mind, and that's why I took this calling. Otherwise

(14:55):
I was extending I could have stayed in the first
forever almost so still I still would have been in
the forge. But then sometimes you know, you should listen
to your heart. So I did some introspection. I said,
you know what everybody thinks, you are no good for
the outside world. Let's go outside and do something good.

Speaker 3 (15:16):
Yeah, and what you're doing now is very great. Actually
you are kind of, you know, helping the aspirants sort
of achieve their dreams. And like you said, you want
to build that warrior mindset in them. And we'll get
to that obviously when we talk about your time in
the ND and the IMA. But staying with Jamuncashmi for
a bit, because again, like I said, we are recording

(15:37):
this podcast in the aftermath of what's happened there with
the pal Come terror attack, where you had twenty six
people being shot dead at point blank range, by the
way by terrorists. Major what do you think everybody, almost
everybody in the country, whether it's in media or whether
it's in civil life, they get wrong about what a
counter terrorism operation in jam it is all about. Because

(16:02):
Yah maybetness say, it's very easy for us to you know,
give give, I would say yan on how such an
operation should be carried out? But what is it like
in reality on the ground there? How do you get
the information about potential terrorists in some some area? How
often is it that it's it is banged on accurate

(16:23):
or is it just very vague? Is area makeuch hong?
And then you have to go and find it? So
what actually happens physically in a counter terrorism up And second,
like I said the larger question, what do you think
everybody us included when I say us in the media
included get wrong about such operations?

Speaker 1 (16:41):
All right? So uh can I give a lengthier answer?

Speaker 3 (16:44):
Yes? Yes, please.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
So first of all, we have to understand what is
a terroristical life cycle. So it's very easy to say,
you know, and nobody got information and nobody could see anything.
So you have to understand we are talking of almost
is like one hundred and twenty hundred and thirty kilometers
long and when you go in the depth also, so

(17:06):
it's hundreds of kilometers of jungles, high altitude mountains, rugged terrain.
That is per number one. Now let's see what actually happens.
So in Pakistan, somewhere Islamabad issue some kind of instructions.
Some boys are collected and they are trained in some
places in Poky, right, they are getting trained there. Then

(17:27):
they move to someplace called launch beds, which is right
behind the Pakistani defenses. Again, high altitude, rugged mountain, very
bad areas. Even in summers. You need to run heaters
throughout Karo. Heaters we have throughout twenty four by seven
otherwise you'll freeze. And now the heights altitudes we are
talking of like fifteen eighteen, twenty thousand feet okay, and

(17:51):
then there are valleys which are tough. Now from these
launch beds. Somedays some Pakistani you know, general I s I.
Somebody will say launch Perdson and now launch forty guys,
fifty guys, hundred whatever with some target. Now nobody knows
this a general order Paskia Pakistan can and officer Ju

(18:16):
and a line of control and they'll give them a guide.
So I'm talking like how they are coming in. So
they're trained, properly trained, launched launch ped sobola now abi
beach man that there was no shelling, so cea abi.
Now ceasefire is lifted to post. So keep to keep

(18:39):
your heads down. There's the term that we use. They'll
do some artillery shelling, some medium machine guns and a
mortars fire ahga. So you are practically very limited in
your observation that you can really observe and with the
kind of valleys and jungles that you have well Exca

(19:00):
and bar and we are talking like to just to
give you an example, a post mountain top pay that
would be like say fourteen thousand and fifteen thousand feet
pay Nala would be like eight thousand feet high seven
thousand to beach foot here. It's that steep climb jap.

(19:23):
If you are climbing going up, sometimes you have to
use all fours, all four limbs of yours map. It's
easier said than done. And Maha beach chalia depending on
the post. So again I'm not giving any excuse, but

(19:46):
I'm saying Monotoneslina every day was jaana ajk ambushmaks both
thermally majors or Jobi devices for use, Karaga use and
rose Terris techic change ABA's limited men or cross line

(20:13):
of controls if he has been lucky, Za line of
control for if he's been lucky or that group. So
they come in, you go to the next year or
second year Ajata Co Infantry battalion, a battalion. They'll be
in the hinter Lenka city role may ambush again problem

(20:36):
length or just type terin visibilster heini and then akela betancta.
You start getting hallucinated hallucinations, so that I've seen myself
triesa moving at least rooted due to the fig So

(21:01):
those kind of practical challenges come in place, right again,
depending on other In many there would be stages to
those stages, say cross beach May they would be guides,
so local guides. Those guys will be guiding them. So

(21:27):
those kinds of things, so there'll be people who will
be reading the pattern. So it becomes for forge. Also
it becomes like you have to be so innovative and
so creative that rouje mera drill mara operation. Right, So

(21:48):
there are so many things that nobody should know you
are moving out, especially just say I was in town,
so town iria meto, like we are banging this market,
our companies banging the market to Juba. Everybody knows you're
walking out and there and like you know, colonies. It's

(22:11):
so very difficult that nobody sees you and chupn is
so simple. Up jungle yuga up quick shop numbers. That's it.
Nobody can see you. No thermally major can pierce through
a free You couldn't do anything. And then the kind

(22:32):
of pressure that m forces have or civilian gala, than
what who's there to protect me? In fact, this happened
in an operation with me, so love. There is a
lot of confusion when the operations take place. You know,
firefight breaks out. So now there is a guy and
the firing starts. I have my ambush Tomria ambush. There
are different shapes in which we lay ambush to Maria

(22:54):
ambushka side or not many. So now firefight chealta and
firefight kiba marimobile poscam a civilian tonimara. Now I get confused,

(23:14):
Terrish Maria, I should feel happy about it, ya may
wealth is civilian? What should I think about? So this
is the kind of pressure that you have like a
b pale gamkya, like you know, to terrorist reach there.
So intelligence I'll come back to that. So this is
the kind of route they have taken hundreds of klometers

(23:37):
na Laya eight Battalionata douceree Battalion Russian Magayahoga hide out Banayahoga,
the firvans. He moves on to third, fourth, fifth A battalion. Sorry, amikity,
not necessary. That's Battalion Garias Nicla Fair infenty Battalion Garias

(23:57):
Fair Police Carreas a Fair for final Shir. Just giving
an example, Shirnakar is not under Forge. It's totally under
the CRP F n J Police operate Karta. So I
do not know the information is not shared. It may
have been shared at I G and core commander and

(24:17):
unke level pay, but company commanders who are actually doing
the technical operations information. And then there are so many
like agencies that are operating meeting agency. So seriously that happens,

(24:40):
and everybody's got some dots, but there's nobody sitting together
making them sit together and join those dots to storming party.
And then this pelgam thing happens. Now that point you
asked me about time. See, there are certain areas JA

(25:06):
like I give you an example of Shirnagar town to
Shinnaga Town for whatever reason, makis, but this is what
it is to Shinaga town. May Forge does not operate.
We only operate as in when required or called upon
right like in Bakiju areas. In just a hinter line
line of control to line of control Mahabe Curry operations.

(25:30):
So no ambiguity hinterland Majo Mahbi is Arthur Foggiato not
an issue. Jaba town. Now the story changes. Now there
is j K Pulis, there is CRPF, there is bs F,
There is a lot of things, and then there is
rush rifles and then there are some infantrys. So it
is hurrey agencies because the load is so much and

(25:52):
will I don't know you and guidelines or whatever that
you cannot have certain concentration of forces beyond a certain point.

Speaker 3 (26:03):
And for.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
So it just to you know, balantly Manajack police Krabe,
I think it is nonsense. The task these guys are doing,
it's very overwhelming. The kind of information you get is overwhelming.
The workload you have is again to the level of

(26:26):
breaking point. And then the men power you every day
that you know what your men power, cut power cut
crew area Bahado. The companies are moved, are battalions are
moved to? Are our battalions. They have their institutional knowledge.
It's in their DNA. So again they are starting I

(26:52):
would not say starting afresh, but again you've pushed them.
You know five ten years back are study. So for example,
I was in Kangan now manko Bokogi made badjo officer,
I am and hand over kak. It has all the
details consource con doubtful, kiss rasta kan all those details

(27:18):
kiss kick hide out. Many don't to those kind of things.
Is lucky. There are a lot of things you are doing,
y marin next officer. So it goes in the DNA
of rust rifles and same thing would be with the
j pullis Abu continued to Abia h Concert District. But

(27:45):
it's like table cub about section Painia. What nonsense? You
are talking just because somebody else is there facing the bullets.
You can talk any ship you want to talk. This
is not just because when you when you see as
a nation all the things which are happening today. I'm
roaming around freely here because somebody else is facing bullets

(28:08):
for me, and now I want to you know, tying offens.
So when you when you are displacing them, when you
are breaking their continuity, you know when you are you know,
telling them of those kinds of things. You are men
powers tomorrow area stretch, You're thinning out the forge, and

(28:29):
then you expect a suppos nothing goes wrong. No, you
are you are waiting for a disaster to happen.

Speaker 3 (28:38):
There is a counter view to that. Counter argument to
that is that, uh, not a counter view per se,
but a different take is that then Jammu and Kashmi
is always going to be stuck in this cycle because
there is this one view that what happened to Hellcam
was also sort of a tactic by Pakistani Army I

(28:59):
s SI to go back to how things were, because briefly,
for the last few years you've had this, especially since
the abrogation of Article three seven zero, you've had this
positive outlook of j Kshmir and there has been talked
like you said, perhaps it's time has come for the
n Army to sort of reduce its deployment, and in
fact it even has not necessarily because of that, but

(29:21):
because it had to shift to face China along the LC.
But then an attack like this happens and then you
go back into that same cycle as somebody who served there,
as an officer of the army who's been there, what
do you what do you have to say about that?

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Okay, I'm like my friends. They say, I give very
vague examples. So maybe if your audience can understand. Once
I got flu and I went to a doctor. He
gave me some antibiotics for five days. I took one
dose and I felt very fine. The next morning I said,
nothing is there. I threw rest, you know, four days

(29:57):
of those, and after three days I again got fre
m hm.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
Get your point.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
So see as a foggy I would say, you want
to remove fogs from there?

Speaker 3 (30:09):
Do it?

Speaker 1 (30:11):
If you've got guts, do it. And I say it
open on open TV. You know I've seen you have
I don't know, legs and legs of followers. If you've
got guts, do it, I said to somebody else. In
nineteen nineties, Rush Rifles was created. And it is because
of Rush Rifles that we still have Jammu Kashmir in India.

(30:32):
So if you are well prepared to lose something so
important and so dear to you, take a chance. We'll
cry together later on because you cannot afford. It's all
nonsense that people talk. I started an adventure company. We
used to go to Kashmir. I don't remember even a

(30:57):
single officer told me that you should do. They said,
you know what is there, you know what happens, you
know what peace people are talking, and what is the
actual state.

Speaker 3 (31:07):
You know it.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
I'm still in touch with a lot of obviously FORGI officers,
a lot of police officers that I've worked with. Everybody
told me, and some of the officers gave me phone numbers,
of personal phone numbers of some local officers that in
case of a problem, do this. I don't want to
name anybody, but during one of my tracks, an officer

(31:31):
like send somebody to talk to him over a radio set.
I spoke to some commanding officer and he said, sir,
you will not take that route. Change your route right now.
The guy who worked with me when I was in
Rush Rifles, who again accompanied me on a track. We
reached some place and then a lot of people could

(31:51):
identify me, and they all came and shaking hands and
hugging and all those things. This guy got scared, he said,
sirrarokok he got so scared, nerokog. So after ten years,
somebody is getting so scared. People could identify me. People
know what I have done there everything people know, and

(32:11):
people get local people are getting scared, those who know
who were terrorists, those who know what all happened since
their childhood, they have seen, they got scared. And then
somebody talks to me or tells me, you know, we
want to thin down the forge. So I can just
laugh about it right now, because we know, I know

(32:34):
every one of us will be crying after a few years.
That's why I say my Mather challenge, because we know
the reality.

Speaker 3 (32:45):
Right major. I want to talk briefly about the enemy,
the terrorists themselves, and especially about Las Careta.

Speaker 1 (32:54):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (32:54):
The encounter that you had that led to your injury
was against I think four or five of terrorists. UH.
And recently, when I was reading about some of the
post Pahagam analysis, I came across this expert. I forgot
who it was. I would have named him otherwise, but
he was talking about how the Lashkaraba, unlike let's say
a Jessha Muhammad, is almost like the paramilitary wing of

(33:19):
the ISI and the Pakistani Army because of the level
of integration it has with the Pakistani Army, whereas whereas
the Josh is most kind of independent. They have their
own training centers, they have their own sources of funding.
But the Lashka is properly, properly directly backed by the
Pakistani Army, trained by the Pakistani Army, which is very
very important, especially about what happened in Pahlgam, because that

(33:41):
person's take was that for anybody, even if you're a terrorist,
for you to be able to shoot people at point
blank range, that requires another level of indoctrination that is
usually not there among let's say, terrorists of the Jesshi Mohamad.
Now you your service obviously was you know, over a
decade ago, but you had experience Kashmir. You've had face

(34:01):
to face encounter in town, encounters with terrorists. I'm not
sure if you ever came across terrorists of JH Muhammad,
But would you agree with this analysis and can you
tell us more about a lashka's level of training because
you know, log ok the mark, it's just terrorists, but
lab you know they can Muhammad your own gay. But
you also have to see that as an officer, as

(34:23):
I said, somebody who's been a soldier, what how do
you assess their level of training?

Speaker 1 (34:28):
Okay, so you rightly brought out this is a very
important point. So primarily there there have been only three
groups terrorist groups, So one is HM, then JH Jessh
Mohammad and then LE. Now they differ in ideology, they
differ in their cards, they differ in their training, and

(34:52):
they differ in their murder's operati. Okay, the first encounter
ever in my life was with terrorists, so I seen
them then. Mostly I've been in North Kashmir, so most
of the encounters that I had were with the Lushkar
guys and some with the Higbol guys. So differentiate k

(35:14):
is very important. Now, Joehuga, that's a Kashmiri guy, mostly
very few. Pakistanis mostly all Kashmiri's and they would mostly
be seen in the South Kashmiri area. So now when
this Pelgram thing happened, and they were Lusker guys, they
would have come in somewhere from North Kashmir. This is

(35:35):
what I'm thinking. Maybe they came from somewhere somewhere else. Now,
the Lushker guys, as you rightly said, they are mostly Pakistani.
They are directly controlled by I SI, directly by Pakistani.
Like in the news, I was seeing the Koita Special
Forces KA Pakistana. One of those guys. Now those special forces.

(35:58):
That was to keep the group. They would have been
trained together. Now their tactics is more like a foggy tactics.
So like for example, if I'm going with my forge
and I'm ambushed, I'm a foggy I'll do a counter ambush.
I'll not run away. Same thing is done by the
Lusker guys. You kill one of our guys, we are

(36:21):
not going to spare you. You kill one of the
Lusker guys, they'll try and come back to you. So
now now the number of operations has gone down drastically.
But till the time I was there, like when we
kill these Lusker guys, we were told like they'll try
and do a stand up attack, they'll try to do
something funny, you know, be prepared, be prepared, be prepared,
so those kinds of things. So we used to change

(36:42):
our tactics. Let them come, we are ready for them.
So difference up makeoutlative. Like jesh Va he's totally isolated
or kashm he comes for a task, he exploits whatever
he can, whether it's resources, whether it's money, whether it's

(37:04):
Kashmiri people, whether it's any guy security forces who's not
very attentive right, so they will try to exploit all
the opportunity that they give. Whether it's Kashmiri women, jash
is number one in exploitation. Now when you come to Leshkar,
now Leshka does not have any love lost Pakistania. Who

(37:28):
can mind my kashmir problem? Now, these Lushka guys, there
are two categories. So one are those ghazi so who
have traveled multiple times, funny characters, So those will be there,
and under them there will be some younger guys. Those
guys will come and there is no love lost. But

(37:53):
on the other end to Kashmiri, he has the kind
of feel you made a neighbor Americ local. So Hisbule
guys you will see very less edible guys into suicide
bombings and these kinds of attacks. His book, guys are
very less they'll come and do it in Delhi. But

(38:18):
mindset is like that. And when you listen to these stories,
he abe you didn't have to pick up a gun, idiot,
So those kinds of things, this is not a job.
You'll get killed. And these are the guys on which

(38:42):
you know some senior commanders have really spent time, can
go rehabs, surrender, parents say so those kind of guys.
So I think when it comes to HBoL, this surrender
thing is fine, it's good, right, But Lash and Jes
I think there's only one treatment for them, just knock

(39:03):
them off. Because these guys are like this. They are
dirty guys. They did this. This is a henious crime,
innocent locus. So we need to identify them and we
need to have a separate treatment. So give them different.

Speaker 3 (39:25):
Uh. One last point on this aspect of knowing the
enemy the M for rifle. Now, recently you've had several
headlines of you know, Key Army Police or CRP I
have have read this location terrorist location and they've they've
found an m f ri fle and counter I fil Melgia.

(39:45):
There is suspicion that one of the terrorists in the
Pahlkama attack was also carrying an MPO rifle from you,
I want that nerdy, sort of technical answer of what
makes an m FO I feel so different from in
Ak forty seven, Like US left Afghanistan, they left their
weapons over there and now those weapons are making their

(40:06):
way to jump and I understand that, but what is
it about the time for rifle that you know makes
it so different? From what the traditionally used to use
A forty seven rifles.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Okay, so let's break it down then, all right, AK
forty seven is everybody's favorite, right, you have a folded
bird fixed. But you know, chotas are easy to carry,
easy to handle, easy to fire, all that stuff. Now,
when it comes to special operations, are there are special
forces and special forces across the world. They were using aks,

(40:36):
they were using VSS right, then we graduated from there
and we moved to Tevor for special ops. Then M
four comes in, you know, then some carbine versions have
come in, so a lot of new weapons have come in.
So basically what's happening is weapons are shrinking, like their
size is reducing, their maneuverability is improving. So basically it's
like when you go into built up areas, you have

(41:00):
to fire, so you want to have very acuate fire,
very rapid fire, and a small weapon to carry. And
then when it comes to CQB, CQB is like close
quarter battles. So when just so when you two guys
are fighting together, so you need a weapon which is
very easily handleable and you know somebody is so close
to you, just like a pistol. You can take out

(41:20):
a pistol and just shoot somebody. So that kind of
manuability comes in. Now all these weapons AKA is equally good.
But like again, special forces are using those weapons. So
when mphour comes in place, it's like market. So because

(41:40):
it's not an AK, it's an m FO imported weapon,
expensive weapon. I can't say so this changes or maybe
you can say it directly points that there has to
be an you know, involvement of the Park Army direct
and then we subsequently discovered that this guy was from PARKSPY.

(42:01):
So these are the dots that I was talking about.
You know, somebody has to join those dots. So you know,
since you asked what is special? So it's not the
weapon which is so special. It is a man who's
handling the weapon is more important. Oh, because that guy's
will happens to be from special Forces.

Speaker 3 (42:18):
We'll now move on to your time in the academy
because I really want to know more about your life there,
sort of training that you had, the discipline that you've learned,
whether it's at the NDA or at the DIM, and
the fact that you were at IM when the shooting
of Lux happened. If I'm not wrong because you also
have a picture with profile. But we'll do that after
a quick break.

Speaker 4 (42:37):
Since we're talking about the five hundred, why don't we
talk about it's spiritual success which you have ridden the
Royal and Field Classics six fifty twoin I think we
should get to that in a bit, but.

Speaker 1 (42:48):
Can you give us a little hint of what what
what's that bike about?

Speaker 2 (42:53):
It's the spiritual successor of the Classic five hundred end off,
definitely the spiritual successor of the five one, And initially
I had thought that they will put the four to
eleven engine into a Classic frame and call it the
spiritual successor, but no, they have not. They've gone the
full length and they've done the six fifty. If you

(43:15):
like the Classic or the Bullet, you just can't not
turn around when you park that bike. For me, if
you've parked a bike and notot look back, that's a
zero point one sort design. If you like retro motorcycles,
you cannot but turn around for a Classic six fifty.

(43:40):
You might be an asair, which is fine. I mean
there are people who will say what budget, No, it's
okay if you like a good looking motorcycles, it's a
good looking motorcycle. Whether you like to enjoy riding it
or not is a different point. But is it a
good looking motorcycle? Yes, it is, even after all these years.
The classic still side the six fifty does that right.

(44:03):
And they've made certain little little things, you know, like
the switch cube is chrome, okay, right, the tribe clamp
is beautifully drafted chrome, absolute like it's a polishous delight.
Like you have to keep that bike clean, you know,
it's like the Parsival. You go before I, do you clean?
After IDE do you clean? So that is what you

(44:25):
have to So as far as design is considered, it's ethnic.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
It just looks fantastic. Next is performance.

Speaker 3 (44:36):
Now.

Speaker 2 (44:36):
Being a five hundred owner, I used to miss out
on the top end, right, anything about.

Speaker 3 (44:45):
Eighty and you do vibrate like crazy.

Speaker 5 (44:54):
But six fifty twin it's absolutely muck even compared to
its own six fifty siblings.

Speaker 1 (45:05):
Yes it is.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
I don't know why, but I felt it to be
smoother than the super media and the shotgun.

Speaker 3 (45:18):
Welcome Back with Me is major l S trade. He's
been talking in the first half of this episode about
his time in counter test operations in Jammun Kashmir. We've
talked about also briefly about what happened in Pehelgam a
few days ago where twenty six people were shot dead
at at point blank range, but there is major I

(45:40):
now want to talk about your academy days, especially the
NDA the IM because my interest lies in the fact
that I actually had applied for the NDA after my
last twelfth I went for the SSB, but I was
confidenced out I could not clear that. But ever since then,
I have, you know, had a fascination for life at

(46:00):
the I man try to find everything that I can
to read about it and to find out about what
actually goes down an academy like that, which is also
why one of my favorite movies military movies is Luxury
uh Where, and it was shot at ime and you
were at during in the course at time when it happened.

(46:20):
So we'll also talk about that briefly. But first I
want to understand and talk about every photo I've seen
of officers posting from their academy days, whether it's you,
whether it's your batch made comander and Ian Pandita, who
was an episode a few episodes that go you all
look so thin, which is a bit weird for me.

(46:40):
Make to throw the PT hotel. They are being trained to,
you know, you know, to join the army, navy or
the air force. So they must be well built. I
can get it. Maybe in the first six months seven
months you're not, but eventually too well built. But even
until the last term, you guys.

Speaker 1 (46:57):
Are just thin.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
How is that happening?

Speaker 1 (47:00):
Okay? So I'll start with this. When I passed out
from im A, I was fifty kilose. Wow. So if
you see my picture with the retic Russian, I would
have been like fifty to fifty two clothes at that
point of time.

Speaker 4 (47:13):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (47:14):
So coming back to it now, I'm telling you a
cadet at NYA would be eating at least ten times
of his counterpart who's at home.

Speaker 3 (47:26):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
Okay, at least I'm saying, hum purchase, purchase bread, breakfast,
hum ache jug cold coffee. You cannot compare. At least
ninety nine percent of the population in India upnail as

(47:49):
Jasame and Milton, and same goes for Ima also Andy,
im A both up waity. So when you are eating
ten fifteen, twenty thousand calories a day, you're burning out.
Also forty fifty thousand calories a day. Wow, and especially
in junior dams. You are running, you don't walk. You

(48:10):
run twenty four by seven. You want to go to
a class, oh anywhere, okay between the classrooms. Also you
are running, you're not walking. And then you are doing
pet you are doing drill. So just to give you
an example, NDA parade ground, the parade ground oska joe
perimeter that is two point four kilometers I jababku Mafkarnata

(48:33):
to judant upcot run Batata. You run from Sudan block,
go to Convagate and come back does the skythod that
is one point three three kilometers from one side, so
two point six kilometers are daughter hoto in ten minutes
ten seconds before going for lunch after your classes julinaba.
And you have to do this if you are in

(48:55):
some punishment. So it might be going for et after
the lunch. That is endurance tests and that is for
seven kilometers or if you're going for restriction run it
is five kilometers in peak of summers and pour a
forty forty two degree temperature. You are doing that and
skibad other cross country and i evalier. You will be
going for crock country bactis also okay, and your night

(49:21):
could go into two o'clock two am, or maybe your
morning could start at three am in the morning. So
when you're doing so much of stuff American, I guess
I think that's.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
A very also good way to note that then perhaps
strength is not all about just muscle and body building.
It's got much it's got to do a lot with
your mental strength, which is I think what these academies
do to you. Because I have the story and I
think recently re counted on one of my previous episodes
as well, one of my relatives was that was at

(49:57):
NDA and you told me the story of how he
was caught with his lights on after lights out hours
and as punishment, what happened was he was told that
that particular weekend he could not go to Pony the
City because every thing weekend you're allowed to go about Liberty,
but that weekend he'll be running up the hill the
singer for the singer for Hill that's that's there. And

(50:19):
he said, key, So there are a bunch of people
who've done something or the other wrong during that one week,
so all of them are running up and as sort
of so called assurance. He said, they sent an ambulance
along with you. So major tell us about this routine. So,
I mean, obviously, you know, talking about all the three

(50:40):
years of NDA, talking about the year and a half
of I am I'm guessing is going to be impossible
in one episode and on one podcast. But if you
were to tell us about these before four and a
half years of training that you've had at both these academies,
tell us what an average day for you was like
and what did that do to you as a How
has the training at these two academies changed you forever?

Speaker 1 (51:04):
So I'll take a word from your question. He said,
somebody told you it's more mental, right, this is what
you actually learn at DA. It's all mental. So we
used to, you know, joke around this that somebody says
it's all mental. The forget that I have become a
mental So the fun is one aspect of it. But

(51:25):
actually it's like your day is starting. You don't know.
It may start at three am in the morning, right,
so unofficial that DRAUGDA, some senior has called you and
all that starts, you are already half exhausted. So I'm
telling you before the official day starts at NDA. You've
already consumed the amount of calories somebody would do in

(51:46):
a whole day, somebody who's very active. Right, bathway too.
Things starts now you're going for PT or drill. Right,
you do that, and so you know, every minute is
like a breaking point your SKTA. And then you do
three years at DA and this is what is being

(52:06):
instilled into you. It's all mental up. Drinkerk. You come back,
you take a shower, you go running, You have your
breakfast and go for the classes. Everything is on the
run and NDA is eight thousand plus acres of land
between the blocks. You are running. You are running kilometers
and kilometers every you know, forty to fifteen minutes. Your

(52:28):
class is changing. You have one classes in the science block,
then you go to Soudan block, then you go to
social science. Then okay, afternoon at swimming and you go
for swimming. So you don't know. You are just running around.
You're burning so many calories. And one thing which is
going into your mind is you are studying. You're doing parade,
you're doing weapons training, you are doing tactics, you are
doing all sorts of funny things and you've not broken down.

(52:50):
So what does it mean, there is no limit to
human endurance. It's all mental. So if mentally you have
thought I can do, you will do it. If I
give you my own example, and they must be like
everybody would have gone through this. I'm assuming. So when
you are you know in the mountains, you have a
new shoe or something, or maybe you know you you

(53:13):
couldn't change your socks. After it's like four days, you'll
get a blister, but you're climbing. Your blister will break,
it will burst, the skin will peel and roll again.
Another blister will come that will also break, and then
your you know, your foot will become so rough and
hard that nothing affects anymore. But you continue. Why because

(53:36):
it's all mental. So this is what the training has
taught us. That people say, you know that tough times
don't last, the tough men do. So that's what is
being taught to Usctive start believing to forge Indiana, believe
they put us through that kind of hardships. Okay, a

(53:57):
normal person will break, but this is what is tested
in the s SB, the process that you go through.
Right Lako paper, they are like six seven like people
up here for the exam and how much the so
they reach and DA. So that kind of filter is
there and the S s B they can see through, yes,

(54:18):
whether you will be able to you know, survive that
or not. And then when you are there you go
through that thing. It's like reassuring and re testing and
so basically fogpata you can do it, but that you
should also be knowing you know about yourself. You should
have that confidence Karlonga. In fact, Camp Provers is considered

(54:43):
to be one of the toughest MNI camp provers Kara
Camp Provers. Then Captain Gotham, you know whata and is
like six one six two. So I said, aga, life
problem now begun the problem I Camp provers complete care

(55:10):
and that you know, reassures you to problem the operation.
I have difficulties there victory. Yeah, so this is what
the difference NDA creates.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
You know mejure, I would imagine that a big part
of this training are the people who are training you,
because it is just one thing to how you repeat
that PTA day after day you go on those long runs.
But for you not to researt breaking point to do
what did in lust that is run away from the academy.
We'll come to that in a bit, uh are the
people training you and then known mostly as you starts

(55:48):
at the academies. Now before coming for this recording, you
know one of my colleagues whose father was in the military,
he was asking me a con here is by episode?
So I showed a profile and I said, okay, by
the way, why I am a methal time pay? He
was training there as a as a cadet and he said, oh,
even I was there because his dad was father was
posted in that at the academy at that point of time.
And he told me to definitely ask you about this

(56:10):
person called Usta Davis Rathhood who's apparently a legend at im.
So can you tell us more about him the person?
And second the larger question about how and what role
do these stars play into molding young cadets like you
were back in the day into what you eventually become.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Okay, so any officer of my generation and few courses
up and down as a yoga Joe Davis, he was
not start at that time. He was a superhar so

(56:50):
and funny moment now es he's he was from eleven
rajriv if I'm not wrong, So eleven double first, so
first tragedy when we are double first, and he was
very proud of his regiment and very true to his

(57:15):
profession to the core. And now see imagine he's a
subadar with something like, you know, thirty years of service
and we are boys, young boys, twenty one years, twenty
two years of age, we yet to become officers. And
they would come and they would they would take pride

(57:38):
that they are training future officers of Indian Army. And
then he was like checking you for everything, so forcing
you to go into details. Trouser Ki Sly or Shirtky Sly,
match cover Wow Belts Alignment by Hekean Buttonka. There is
a like in Forge Sugar Le Carika right, who teaches

(58:03):
that these starts and are starts. They teach us this
to interest technically wup in a peace posting player. He's
in a peace posting posting.

Speaker 4 (58:17):
Right.

Speaker 1 (58:18):
And Vapi the kind of dedication they're showing. So this
is what goes into USA. But you absorb from them,
Uniform Drilla, how to respect too, get Chetwood ground Mare
when you are doing this Vape Chetwood and Moto. The
safety and welfare of my country comes first always and

(58:40):
every time. It's very very connected, and these Drillo starts
are very emotional, but they're even more so. I'll give
you one example. I was posted in Kashmir and Mera
I d blast war. I was young officer two thousand
and four KA I d blast one and there was

(59:04):
twenty nine r R one k H. I survived. I
was safe, so Wahape. We went to the gate Makola
get into twenty nine rush rifles and I was there
and suddenly called Or. I'm in uniform and I think,

(59:26):
who's then Pelia t v P as my hands were
half in blood. I think when sleeves roll up, Karate
Dogra Richmond came star spanning with him in a lieutenant
k or and somebody lifted me up. I said those
type and Nara and I turned back. There's a tall

(59:50):
smart c h M standing there, and the kind I
could imagine like IOMs identify Karake. He's my drill start
from Nda. And we hugged each other and we cried
as if so he was my instructor. They're my start.
There in the NBA bod stricter we got shots taking

(01:00:11):
a bury teak, stocking teak. But all that is happening
Tom monster, Am Milt. If you are well dressed, we
are doing good with It's more than a family member,
So that is the bonding. Same thing d s Sake

(01:00:31):
Davis or was the SA, so you know they're indirectly
pushing you to do even better. So there is a
lot of scope to improve. There's a lot of scope
to you know, excel at what we are doing. So
stipechies or bossary officers impress okay on regiment Davis Majani.

(01:01:06):
So this is how of you know, get motivated. My
time with the YouTube been.

Speaker 3 (01:01:13):
H you know, I think I had a similar experience
at my ss B. I'm not sure because it was
so long ago, so I forgot his rank, but I
think he was a j C o U and I
think he would be he would be like an ustar
if he were posted at an academy. So he was
responsible for, you know, shepherding the batch that was there.
So on the first day we were around one fifty people,
one fifty boys Pasia. After that first sort of screening

(01:01:37):
test that they do, fifty of us were left. And
I had this one memory of him telling us about
the rules and procedures to follow at the at that
This was in Mopal, at the Mopal Cantonment area. Uh.
And this one sentence that kind of, you know, gave
out sort of that instinct that they have to sort
of be very strict with you but also sort of
pamper you. So he said he's a rules a phone,

(01:02:00):
not a lot of stuff like that. And then he
said ski bathroom PI, but bottle miller, and that that
sort of you know, that warm sort of feeling you get. Okay,
this guy is there, but he's gonna be very strict
with you, but he also is sort of like, you know,
he wants to be pally with you as well. That
sort of feeling is what I got, and I can
imagine is what Auta would be at one of these academies.

(01:02:25):
I wanted to talk also about breaking down. So you
said that everything that is happening at these academies obviously uh,
making you mentally tougher. But I'm pretty sure you must
have had those days, that one day that that with
one moment where you must have felt like did that
ever happen with you? Or maybe with a batch made

(01:02:46):
of yours or courts made of yours.

Speaker 1 (01:02:48):
I think this is a regular thing, but this happens
in junior job up and especially if you're not from
military schools or sening schools jai, you get that little
hang of the things like somebody like me who goes

(01:03:09):
from a civil background, right, and I a t M
and r ry exams pass and somebody motivates you ande
joint officer and then monkey up ins and then you realize,
ok are j K. So it's like job app you know, AAA, jeans,

(01:03:32):
T shirt, pan brush ress you know do and suddenly
you reach ny A and right, so just let me
code something NYM A first day of classes, Sudan block
Metski class mema bet or from a book issue with

(01:03:54):
karaoke sorry credit new stype pay you get that book
the page. But like that binding is there binding? We
all come here as a bunch of dopes. First we
lose our hair, and then all hopes and and uh,

(01:04:16):
you know, coming from a civil background to kilometer beneath
right now, suddenly you have to run cross country and
maritime the first terms a cross country first term say equestrian. God,
now you have to mount a horse. Sorry ride right,
and so if I coat something from there and equestrian

(01:04:43):
and my host pay back home to got out of
the border border thigh a thousand not excuse to late
or I think Minarka famous within seconds man of stars

(01:05:14):
start at types. So he looked at me, he said credit.
So if you want to ride the horse, you have
to make him understand cap I said, okay, Arya and

(01:05:37):
bar Mayfair one day even speaking a tent pegging, car
show jumping Saraka. So basically for somebody like me to
manage and coming from a normal middle class background, you
know master, so you are tolder Soda Baki activities to

(01:05:59):
Kabuk swimming past and say you know those kinds of things,
tennis hills, golfs facility, theening Echustrian was a far fast
dream ABS riding, so I couldn't have imagined. But you get,

(01:06:23):
you know, skosh Olympic sized swimming pool we didn't know.
And you have best of the instructors Joe swimming swimming expert,
drill drill expert. You Weapona weapon training, weapons exported. So

(01:06:44):
you get all the facilities together in one place, indoor
basketball first time and then you realize, so all this
facility you get and plus four guidance for a Harby Milray.
So best of the things that you can imagine is

(01:07:05):
all there at India. So they really take those kids
now and they really frame you into somebody that you
gain that confidence, you gain that knowledge, and you are
ready to lead the men in battle.

Speaker 3 (01:07:18):
Major A couple of last points on this on this episode,
one is how often did you break rules? And when
I say that, I mean intentionally j not the ones
where you know, like you said dakka but Shu saida
bandi and then you got punished for it. I meant
the rules that was laid down and you actually broke them.
For example, you were told during your weekend visits to

(01:07:41):
Pune you cannot do X y Z things. You cannot
visit a particular let's say restaurant, or you cannot visit
a particular location upload tobi Ja. I remember back when
I was applying for applying for NDA, I used to
read about what sort of things you can take with
you and what things are not allowed. So I think
back in my time, they do not allow radios. I

(01:08:04):
think that could communicate. They did not allow phones of
any kind and you could only carry one sort of
CD or cassette player. If I'm not wrong, For some
leisurely music, but MOBI ruled a smuggle contra band type cutchies.
Did that stuff like that ever happened? And second also
a very important question. This is also by the way,
that very that very tender age when a majority of

(01:08:25):
people in life also tend to end up getting hooked
onto vices because of the kind of colleges they go to,
the kind of crowd that they have because you know,
you have those raging hormones and it's a very tough period. Usually,
what's that situation like at ND?

Speaker 1 (01:08:41):
Okay? So first question, did I ever break rules? Day?
You do break rules by mistake? Okay, okay? And now
coming to that tender age, so sublo, the opportunities are

(01:09:02):
well less and by the time you pass your drill
Square Test TSD and you are eligible for going out
on liberty, it takes a little time, and with somebody
like me it takes whole two terms. So for the
first one year I could only go on special liberties,
I could go almost one year, and after that when
we started going. So now you know what happens at

(01:09:23):
en So you want to break rules, but they are
very calculated. You know what to break and what not
to break. Okay, so and but there is a problem.
So in Forge, what happens is some of the people
are going to kill me for this. So Foge tells
you what not to do, like first rule will be

(01:09:45):
out of bound places, curiosity trigger why not to visit
You are at that age, right, and somebody like me monarch,
so there must be some being good is and uh,
then you explore a lot of places. But the guys

(01:10:07):
who are at and if they are listening to me,
fergusion is much better than any of those out of
bounds places, stay there, stick there. So yeah, but unfortunately
it's like you start exploring care care just say, uh,

(01:10:28):
I don't know, opt to America court martialing cortector. But
like oshu is out of bounds.

Speaker 3 (01:10:35):
Okay maybe, And.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
Then you ask some people and they'll tell you a
lot of funny things. You now you start imagining and
then this is like you know, probing slowly pro so
those kinds of things happen. But let me tell you,
Andy is very strict like Mafini, right, so it's better

(01:11:09):
German advisy, Milt, So don't venture into areas which are
somebody must have experienced, right, So it's a lesson learned
from somebody, and you know that's funny. Again my perspective,

(01:11:36):
I was in third Battalion, and I was in Juliet
for most of the time, and six term I went
to Alfas Con and uh's a lot of people have
asked me. So I passed out as c q M
s Alfas Corn and most of the time I was
in Juliet to third Battalion, says m H or m H.
It's called hamsaa mahapik that chocolate rumballs, milt or chawman.

(01:12:06):
But what we call chowman Chinese who sub types n
despite the the best food you can ever have is
there in nd A. But still but yeah, yeah, and
it was. It used to be out of bounds to val,

(01:12:28):
especially in senior arms. So you just sneak out sentricotic
secret right, So you are being trained Pakistan by special
forces centric silence sentry should not be able to detect you.

(01:12:48):
You are practical k J M H sentry And where
were fencing? So sorry experiments or basically m H. And

(01:13:12):
I'm a training team, So I'm a training team and
he could identify hospital admitted val. Well, did you remove

(01:13:33):
your T shirt? Remove your vest, sit down, start, Wow,
duty the entertainment. So those kinds of things happened to vald.

Speaker 3 (01:13:50):
For last point to discuss with you is about the
shooting of the film Luxure. It happened at the time
when you were there. I want to know what was
that like for you? And you know, as we sort
of recap the entire thing, now, how close to reality
do you think that movie came to depicting not just
training at time, but also generally speaking, life in the

(01:14:12):
Indian Army and also the combat scenes because a lot
of films, a lot of movies tend to exaggerate the
visual aspect of what being in combat is all about,
of what being in the army or or military training
academy is all about. So how close did you think
lux came to it? What was their experience while being
on campus? You had these people coming in, you had

(01:14:34):
someone like critic Rossian coming in and shooting happening when
you were when you were training there. And if you
can confirm this, there is this There is this story
told by Lieutenant Colonel Cousin theres sing on on Instagram
where he says the legendary Davising Rathhord apparently had a
constant critic Rossian and you know held his belt and

(01:14:54):
the other because apparently ritic Rossian was making some sort
of sound when a drill was going on. If you
can confirm that ever happened.

Speaker 1 (01:15:01):
Okay, So Colin there is a dear friend, and Koshl
is my coasemate. Their name comes together. Yes, So all right,
I'll not comment on the head because Davis could have
very much done it. He could have done it to
anybody made ground. So parade ground is like a holy place. Sorry,

(01:15:28):
and two thousands so ninety nine. It's not long back
woodman or Davis student credit. So maybe that kind of
emotional thing for these are emotional right to paradeground and

(01:16:02):
the experience that we had with them. So up they
gentleman cads body senior to made a coffee intaction and
uh then uh then wife, I think so then wife

(01:16:26):
or there were a couple of other guys also and
I'm sorry so shooting the time they were like three
more actors Michal and sorry look better to briefing feeling

(01:16:52):
new actor you look director U there airs about it.
But I let me give you an example. Hum uh caffeter,
I am a caffeter pass and gutter so and so

(01:17:19):
I just went there better was a lady setting mcaf better?
Hell so it buddy family say it whatever? Actors Kay,
look he right new years around it right right, same thing?

(01:17:53):
M Yi So noaning that was very nice problem should
we jump shooting?

Speaker 3 (01:18:14):
So?

Speaker 1 (01:18:15):
But otherwise it was very nice memory and in fact
manager Instagram photo man millions.

Speaker 3 (01:18:24):
Look, I just thought, did you guys ever have a
sort of a peat competition with con was very very
fat that you guys were better?

Speaker 1 (01:18:45):
Uh and chin up and chest. He was very fat,
very fair, but.

Speaker 3 (01:18:54):
Obviously exactly right. Major one last, which is very quick
question because in the second half of this episode you've
talked lots about you mentioned not talk lots, mentioned lots
about the food at India, not so much at time.
So I want to know at both these academies Mahakana actually.

Speaker 1 (01:19:17):
Okay, so others short. So I've I've had food and
a lot of five stars, including India, America or Bosari parties.
I am yet to find a place which can serve
me food better than what I ate at India, whether

(01:19:38):
it's French, Continental, Indian, you name it, Bajaja actually mena
Sikha kick Continental food, he fourteen coast meal, seven coast meal, toast,
How the dinner starts, how it ends right, dinner, May supper, May,
dinner night, guest night, maka for it's so crockery cutlery. Sorry,

(01:20:05):
so you know, it's a class. It's a class. It's
like when you go to Indiana up because you are
going to lead the man in battle and get them
back safe. So feel up. Love that royalty your profession.

(01:20:29):
In fact, that reminds me. I am a uh. We
were having dinner, a dinner, shoot, a lux movie man,
a white colors. What the lucky you guys are? I
don't know, he told me these things. So food though

(01:20:57):
unmaged everything, everything is unmissed.

Speaker 3 (01:21:07):
Right, Major, I think we'll end the episode there. Thanks
a lot of fantastic talk with you. It was just
what I wanted, uh, you know, to know about your
life at the academies and also about like we discussed
in the first half, about what it's like to be
in a CT open. Thank you so much. I hope
you also had a lot of fun on this on
this episode with us.

Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
It was very nice for me. It was like a
very casual this thing conversation and I didn't realize even
the cameras are.

Speaker 3 (01:21:35):
Great. That's what we aim for actually on in our defense.
So thank you so much, thank you. That's it for
this week's defense toes for more, tune in next week.
Till then, stay safe and do not cross any boundaries
to the passport