I P Specials: Tales Of The Land with Charles Christian

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Episode Transcript

(00:16):
Good morning in the UK. Yesit's morning this time I have a UK
guest. Yes, no time zones, no time zones. Welcome to Inception
Podcast Special. Today I have anamazing guest, Charles Christian. I will
get back to him in a second, but first of all, I'd like

(00:39):
to say, you know where togo Forbidden Knowledge News Network to find amazing
podcasts, amazing shows, conscious,expanding, controversy anything. There's something for
everybody on the Forbidden Knowledge News Network. And you'll find me there with Inception

(01:00):
Podcast Inception Special. So, withoutfurther ado, I have my auto que
guys as you know, memories youknow, not too good at the moment.
So this morning I have Charles Christian, who is a writer, a
barrister, a journalist, an editor, a storyteller of weird tales for weird

(01:23):
times. Welcome to the show,Charles. Oh might delight to be here.
Gloria, brilliant, brilliant. Sowe're just going to get down with
it, and I'm going to say, where did your amazing journey begin?
Oh? I think it began inmy childhood. I grew up in the

(01:46):
nineteen fifties time when we only hadone channel on television. It was in
black and white, yes, andwe all stood up at the end of
cinema movies to listen to God's theQueen. Strange times by modern comparisons,
and strange times by what happened adecade later, with the sixties that came

(02:07):
along. I suppose the issue,I suppose it starts. I lived.
It was brought up in an oldhouse by the harbor side in Scarborough,
which were people who don't know ison the northeast coast of Yorkshire, and

(02:30):
it was a very old house.Parts of it were medieval and then there
was a Georgian bit built on thefront. When we had very high tides,
the sellers would flood from the seawhere we were that close to the
harbor. And funny enough, theplaces still standing amazingly given all the weather
that's happened to it now, butno longer in my family, but it

(02:54):
was the family home and it hadthe family legends, and it was i'd
say spooky. A friend of mymother's who reckoned she was a bit of

(03:14):
a medium, had skills that way, said she could detect the sound of
large boots marching around, hear thesound through the ceiling and what with a
bit of scratching of the heads,because it was originally my father's house.

(03:38):
My mother moved there when she marriedhim. His granny back in the days
of fishing boats and small ships wouldtake in any sailors who were caught by
the storm and didn't have anywhere tostay, and fishermen in those days wore

(04:01):
great, big um thigh high wadingboots and heavy boots of various sorts,
and so the idea, the thoughtwas that this medium friend was actually picking
up the sound of their boots marchingaround fifty hundred years later after the events

(04:27):
had happened. How did you stop? I got to say, how did
you as a young child, um, sort of take that in? And
what was your father? Your mother? Were they open to this as well?
Ah? My father, I thinkis was a lifelong skeptic. My

(04:47):
mother definitely believed in weird things.For want of a better, Nert termed
the paranormal. And she and shefrom a strange family of a sort of
matriarchal family where all the men,the husbands, had either died, being

(05:11):
divorced, vanished, and so itwas this. Never ever was a grandfather
mentioned or any men mentioned in thefamily I like or vanished. Yes,
you would say, we would saytoday under the patio, but however just
vanished. Oh wonderful. Do yougo on? And so I say,
there was this strong matriarchal line goingthrough and various tales that they passed down.

(05:41):
And I say, when I wasin the child, my granny was
still alive and her mother, mygreat grandmother, was still alive, and
she was a sort of connection backinto the mid nineteenth century, and she
had her tails from her mother andso on, so we had this link

(06:05):
going back into a long way.And there were, you know, various
tales of you know, one ofthe grannies being out in her backyard doing
some washing, and um, aformer boyfriend of hers came by, well

(06:28):
he was an old man by themand sort of said hello, Jenny,
how are you getting on and sortof nodded, and she said, finally
he wandered off, and she thenlearned that that was almost the precise moment
he died in hospital, and youknow, had he been making his last
calls to say his goodbyes to people, so so, you know, and

(06:54):
they were I think with with withthe grannies, they were quite down to
worth people. They weren't fanciful.I mean, I remember when we used
to watch horror movies on TV,you know, Frankenstein and things like that.
My grandmother would be saying, there'sno need to be frightened because the
other side of that monster, there'sa camera crew, there's somebody with a

(07:15):
t stall, there's somebody making sandwiches, there's a makeup person. I used
to say that to my children whenthey were young. I mean, you
know, because I would allow themto watch like Vincent Price and things like
that, you know, that theold scary one. And I would sit
there and say exactly the same,Yeah, exactly, that's that's weird.

(07:36):
It must be a generational thing thatpasses down. Its weird. It must
be a woman thing, I think, because I think it's oh yeah,
I think it's no thing. Butwe won't digress. Yeah, okay,
let's pull it back. Yeah,you go on. And so, you
know, they were all very practical. So they weren't the sort of people

(08:00):
and I think we've all encountered themwho the moment they hear the central heating
pipes creaking in the morning, it'soh, there's something in the attic.
There's it's a spirit or whatever,or you know, the moment you see
a plane fly over late at night, that's a youtho. You know that
they were they were very they werevery grounded. I think the phrase was

(08:22):
so when they would come out withphrases like that and things like that,
you took more notice of it.Yeah, you might do otherwise that somebody
who was always seeing ghosts and hearingsolutely. Yeah, So that must have really
set you in your foundation to whereyou eventually ended up, because you know,

(08:45):
in that environment where it's a naturalphenomena, it's hard to say that
word isn't it's it's resonate. They'venormalized it for you. There's no spooky
action at a distance like I horrorfilm. Don't worry. There's a camera,
so it's normalized. So I thinkwhat an environment like that, What

(09:07):
it does? It drops the fearfactor. Yeah, there's still going to
be a view when you do experiencea paranormal experience, there's going to be
oh, what's that? However,and it normalizes it. Would you say
that was true with you? Itsort of set you in stone to where
you would be going eventually. Ithink it did. I think it did.
I mean, there was a strangeincident that recurred throughout the time I

(09:33):
used to live in the what wouldbe my childhood home, and it would
be this sensation when I was lyingin bed that somebody was getting the bottom
of the bed. These were thebeds with the sort of headboard at one
end and a footboard at the otherend of it. That someone was grabbing
the footboard of my bed and shakingit. So I was going backwards and

(09:58):
forwards, and obviously I looked andthere was nobody there. And I did
once mention it to my father,and he said, oh, it's just
the wind catching the house. Andthat made sense, because the seafront did
get the wind, and the houseactually stood out from the rest of the

(10:20):
property line, so if there wasa strong gale coming along, it would
catch the house. However, itwas only many, many years later that
it dawned on me that if thatwas true, the way my bedroom was
laid out, I would have beenshaken from side to side the house.

(10:41):
The wind would have hit the sideof the house and it would have shaken
my bed that way backwards and forwards. So I've never quite been able to
work out what happened then, andI just wonder whether there was something going
on again with with with as wewere saying, you know, there's the
cameraman there behind the monster. Yourfather says, Oh, it's just the

(11:05):
wind heading the house. Yeah,just the wind hitting time. But yeah,
when you look back, I supposewith maturity and research and it's more
experiential power, normal moments and youstart to piece it together. I mean,
coming from you me hearing the story, coming from my trip, being
a psychlopedia amount say, now,they were there, they were just letting

(11:28):
you know they were there, noharm to you, but we're here and
you've never forgotten experience, which reallyis quite poignant that you haven't forgotten it.
It's it's a connection that you keepadding two parts of the puzzle.
So yeah, I don't think itwas. Yeah, it definitely. You

(11:48):
know, even sitting here now,I can recall the sensation of the bed.
Yeah, just just shaking, youknow, So you know, there
was that element of it. AndI suppose the other factor that was important
I mentioned at the very outset welived in primitive times with only one television

(12:11):
channel, was that, you know, to use the corny phrase, we
made our own entertainment. The TVused to shut shut down at ten o'clock
or something like that. And sowe were great ones for reading. My
father would read any book whatsoever.My mother would, you know, gain

(12:35):
it was the great days of thepublic library, and you know, we'd
stagger back with the maximum number ofbooks we would have and consume them all.
And it was also a time when, uh in winter, we'd sit
around the fire and these were youknow, open coal fires, sit around

(12:56):
the fire, you know, eatingnuts, drinking cups of tea and coffee
and whatever. And people would tellstories, and they would tell ghost stories,
and they would tell tales of thisnature. And you know, it's
very much the older approach, youknow, particularly say Christmas, we'd have

(13:22):
friends around and you'd all gather aroundthe fire and tell tales, and you
just as a child. Obviously,I said nothing because I didn't have anything
particularly much to add. But Iwas always a great listener. I always
found I've always found it fascinating tolisten to people. I'd rather listen to
people than talk to them. Andyou know, you just pick up these

(13:43):
stories. So I suppose we livedstill in an oral age in and it
was oral history that was being pastdown. Would you say, oh,
when you say oral history like butto say as well in the morning or
um community history like you know,culture history. It's not the history we're

(14:09):
talking about that's in the history bookisodeto speak. But it's about the area
geographically where you live, about otherother other humans experiences with these ghosts or
these entities. So it's for methat is more richer because it's like if
if you're with family members and they'resharing oh my god, when I was

(14:31):
sixteen, it's more rich. It'sit's more I think it more resonates because
it's a loved one or family memberor a neighbor because back in the day
and we are from the same era, and um, it was it was
a small knit community which really wasan extended family community. That makes sense

(14:54):
to you. So the richness ofthese tales that you were being shared with
you were not just out of abook of whatever. It was a living
history, so to speak. Wouldyou agree with that? Oh, definitely,
definitely, lots of stuff that wasn'tin any you'd never find in any
of the history books. And youknow, again they frequently rent off into

(15:22):
the macabre. I mean, mygrandmother game one of those tales logged in
my memory, as you know withhindsight, what a bizarre thing to tell
a child. But I was goingout one day with on my bike and
I was heading off to the outskirtsof Scarborough where it meets the Yorkshire Moors

(15:46):
and becomes rural very quickly. Iwas going out there and I picked up
an apple to take with me inmy saddle bag. And my grandmother said,
oh, where you're going, AndI told her the location and said,

(16:07):
oh, and you're taking an apple. That reminds me of a story
I heard all abated, and thestory was that during the First World War,
which I suppose for my grandmother wouldhave been she would have been a
teenager stroke early twenties, so itwas, if you like, a defining

(16:33):
time in her life. Said afriend of her brothers came home from leave
and went out for a walk oneday and was never seen again. And
they thought he'd run away, goneabsent without leave from the army, but

(16:56):
thought it was a bit unlikely.It wasn't really in his character, and
nothing was heard or seen of himagain until years later. Somebody was going
for a hike through this particular woodwhere I was about to go on my

(17:17):
bicycle and spotted an apple tree growinghalfway up a hill, and he could
see it was a proper apple treeas opposed to a crab apple tree.
Clamber up to look at it,and when he got there there was an
apple tree, but it was growingout of the chess cavity of a skeleton,

(17:41):
and the skeleton an obvious lead hecomposed, but still had a cap
on it, and the cap wasidentified as the missing man from the First
World War. And the thought washe'd gone for a walk there, accidentally
slipped, fallen off the hillside therecracked his head, either died there or

(18:08):
shortly afterwards, but it had hadan apple with him, and the apple
had subsequently fertilized, grown and grownup through him. Now again, you
know, with the benefit of folkloreand doing research, I know there are
variations of that tale to be foundelsewhere. But you know, for me

(18:29):
then, I mean there's two thingsthere. One how widespread that tale must
have been. Yeah, But againfor me as a child hearing that,
that was one of those draw droppingmoments. I mean, did you did
you go for your walk after that? No? I didn't actually now,
oh, I mean, I'm honestly. I mean if I was, you

(18:51):
know, someone expressed that to me, now, I would say, hell,
yeah, let's go. But Ihad to tell him, even as
what I called myself a para normalchild, I wouldn't have gone. Especially
if it a respected and peer relatedfamily member like a grandmother had told this.
I would take that as an omenas a warning exactly that that was

(19:12):
my view that that was going upthere might not be such a good idea,
and a plenty of other places maynot be really about the gentleman,
the brother and the apple and theapple tree. But it may be that
the grandmother. Because I've done thismany times with my children. The grandmother
is aware of something don't go there, but doesn't quite know. So we'll

(19:34):
come up with a narrative to say, well, do you know what,
just to not say you can't doit or don't do it. But it's
like a narrative just think about it, because the grandmother is, you know,
I've had this fully aware, donot go there, but you can't
say sometimes to it a child,don't go there? Why I don't know,

(19:56):
So you're you know. I wouldcome up with some sort of narrative
to I think that's beautiful. Ithink that's wonderful, and I'm so glad
you didn't go out there and turninto an aptory. So moving on,
I mean, so we can we'vegrasped the richness of your younger childhood.
What comes next? What comes next? Charles Well, I suppose what comes

(20:22):
next? You know, as thena teenager in the nineteen sixties, more
interested in pop music and girls,and so things drifted that way. But
I had got an interest in andit may well have been the way the

(20:42):
book industry was, but there werean awful lot of ghost stories and horror
stories being published in I think itwas pan paperbacks. That was a sort
of golden era for it in thenineteen sixties, and there was a large
covered market in the town and therewere you know, shops they're selling second

(21:04):
hand books. So again myself andmy father were consuming large numbers of these
books. So I think the horrorstyle of ghosts and supernatural mystery element got
in, and the the newspapers aswell were quite interested in that. I

(21:29):
remembered there would there'd still be storieseven though he'd been it was long dead
then of Alista Crowley, the famousoccultist. And because we had Queen Elizabeth
on the throne and her mother wasthe Queen Mother and she was from the
bows Lyons family, every so oftenthe legends of Glam's Castle would come out

(21:51):
and you know the secret room,and was there a deformed monster ancestor of
the royal family there and all ofthese things. I just think it was
It was just one of the disabledfamily members, That's what I think.
Yeah, that's what I thought.It wasn't because we've found I know,
we've digressed slightly, but it happenson my show. We found out later

(22:14):
on how the Queen mother was itHit had one of her sisters in a
mentor asylum and do you remember thator something? And there was there was
a young um a son of orsomewhere around about George the fifth. I
think he had a brother as well, who was Yea and they would lock

(22:38):
him away in mental asylum so thatno one would know that in breeding obviously
we knew why that. But yeah, so I've digressed, but it's very
fascinating. So let's come out.You were exposed to it and then um
again the Irish comedian. Now you'regoing to have to help me with this

(23:02):
one with a missing finger. That'sthe one. He was hilarious. He
would tell ghost stories. He didhe used to do on his show.
At the end, he would takedown the lighting. Yes, with both
scratch scratching out. Oh my god, I can visualize him and he's missing

(23:22):
finger. I would riveted to Ohmy god. M oh, I'm going
to google it. I'm giving iton the show. You tell me about
him? What I see? Well, I say it was he would do
the show and it was a comedyshow and he was part of his act.

(23:45):
He dimmed the lights and straight tocamera he would tell a ghost story
and you know they were very effectivebecause there was no special effects or anything
on. It was just somebody tellingit. And again yeah, yeah,

(24:06):
and I say, yes, brilliantcomedian. But I say, he used
to do that. And then ifyou recall the BBC were doing their ghost
story at Christmas, Yes theories whichwere in black and white, and the
m R James tails whistler and I'llcome for the my lad with its imagery

(24:32):
again very striking all of those.And I say, we were taking them,
taking them in And I suppose Igrew up with that interest, if
you like, my interest in thesupernatural had been wetted. Yes, but

(24:52):
the family and culture, and then, as you said, as you got
older, we all go through thesex, drugs and rock and roll,
whatever you do, it doesn't matterif you've admitted one. But then the
reality seems to reflect then what we'veexperienced. And so instead of like an
inward which i'd call family and local, then it starts to your reality,

(25:15):
then starts to reflect externally like theDave Allen Show or the newspaper. So
it's like it's just gently bringing youinto you know, and keeping this like
I don't know you can call ita passion. I think it must be
a passion if we start in childhoodand then we're still carrying on in maturity,

(25:37):
darling as we are. So youcan see how that now comes towards
you from newspapers, TV shows,especially Dave Allen, he used to scare
I'm sorry, he used to scamyship that sometimes. He was a really
good storyteller. He was, indeed, it really was, he really was.
I think more so I preferred hisstorytelling to being a comedian because I

(26:02):
have to say I remember his storytelling. I could not remember any of his
comedy skits or anything like that.I can't remember the joke, but the
storytelling his presence. He had thatpresence. When he told a story,
you knew it was him. Youwere waiting for something to come out.

(26:23):
But you would then get lost inthe tale and forget he was the comedian
and forget who he was. Andit was enthralling. That's how I describe
it. And then all of usand he whoa, he was brilliant.
He was brilliant. Yeah, butI suppose it's that that those things I

(26:45):
was picking up on. You know, I'm going back to the sixties again.
There's a Bonzo Dogs song about thestrange boy at school who didn't like
sport. I was that person.Never read the sport pages of a newspaper
in my life, never watched sportsbroke. Never doesn't interest you at all.

(27:07):
But something that's spooky, mysterious,something of that nature, then I'd
be intrigued. And let's say myfamily had They all had an interest in
history, and so I was ingrainedwith it and the place we lived,

(27:27):
Scarborough, For those of you whodon't know it, there's a castle Headland
that dominates the two Bays. It'sbeen excavated. And before the Norman castle
was there, there was a Romansignal station there. And before the Roman

(27:48):
signal station there was a settlement ofCelts, the Beaker folk, they were
there. There was a very earlyChristian chapel there. The Vikings came and
burned the place down, as theydo. And so you know, you
can't you couldn't hide from me ifyou're like the history of the place.

(28:14):
I mean, yeah, I've saidjust before when we spoke before, as
you narrated some of these stories tome in tales, and it was like,
you know, like we have inspirituality, you have sacred, sacred
spots. It could be stone ended, it could be the pyramid. And
as you were telling me before,I kept saying, it seems like that
that geographical area holds an energy thatis just so powerful that it is paranormal

(28:41):
energy. And it is you know, for me, that's beautiful. I
mean, you know, who knows. One day maybe I'll come to Scarborough
Fair. Who knows, however,But that's how it resonates with me.
Rich and fertile history, but it'snot just the history in the history books.
It's a living history still to thisday, is it not? It

(29:03):
is? It is? And yes, I mean you know very much the
ritual landscape if you like. Andmoving south just a few miles onto what
I called the Yorkshire Wolves. Thatis full of old burial mounds cumuli.

(29:30):
A lot of them have been lostto plowing, but there are still the
remains of some big I mean,I could stay just here, but we
can't because we've got so much topack in here. So what comes next?
Is it the writer and the journalismor is it the barrister? Where

(29:51):
does that come in? Well,I suppose the next bit is I left
home and went to university. Andthen we guy who I was sharing a
house with, as you did inthose days. You know, you rented
a house and four or five ofyou'd be in there sharing the rent.

(30:11):
We used to go ghost hunting aroundthe Leeds and West Riding area. Hold
on, what was what were youstudying at university? Funnily enough, I
was studying politics. I mean,this is what I needed to bring out.
So now after all of that,Okay, I'm going to study politics

(30:32):
at university. And then you comeup and say, well, actually we
went off ghost hunting. So Ijust want to express how it still comes
in and feeds the narrative for yourjourney on. Yeah. Yeah, um.
I'm not quite sure why I chosepolitics with hindsight as opposed to history
or anything else, but it wasthe course was a nice, nice mix

(30:55):
if you like, and it wasit was mainly modern history actually the course
anyway. And we used to goghost hunting and we would stake out old
churches that were said to be haunted, visit sites that were said to be
haunted, and essentially spent a lotof time sitting out in the cold in

(31:18):
the middle of winter and we sawnothing, unfortunately, but we we we
tried, we tried, were training, Yeah, we were training. Um.
And I mean, you know thatthe spooky element remains because Leeds University,

(31:41):
um, the core part of it, it's expanded a lot since my
day. Was built around an oldgraveyard and there were holes of residents on
one side, signs, labs onanother side, library on another side.
But there was this anomalous space inthe middle that was a graveyard that was

(32:06):
a graveyard up until the early twentiethcentury I think ceased being used. So
you know, you even went tothe right university, you even went to
I mean, you've you've got tosay, well, hindsight's a bitch.
Let's look back. So you know, you go to university, you're for

(32:28):
some unknown reason, you're going forpolitics. It just attracted you. But
it seems like that attracted you toget you into that space. Then you're
into a university that just happens tohave this ancient graveyard there, and you
just happen to go off doing ghosthunting. You can see how this unfold
with more lifetime. Yeah, yeah, and you know the places like Ilkley

(32:54):
Moor which has a lot of mysteriousum standing stones and carved stones. Again
we're talking Neolithic era three thousand yearsago located there, and we did a

(33:15):
UM one of the porch watching.You know, have you heard of the
concept of porch watching? Where awareof it but not in great details.
You sitting at um a church porchand I'm not sure if it's I'm trying

(33:38):
to remember which they was, UM, I think it's the day that the
church is um the Saints Day relatingto that particular church, and this was
a Saint Michael and sent Michael.I think is it's got a couple of

(34:01):
festivals anyway, it doesn't matter.But the idea is that you sit in
the porch on this specific night andbetween the hours of eleven at night to
one in the morning, legend hasit, you will see a parade of

(34:25):
I suppose they'd be doppelgangers coming intothe church, and they are all the
people who are doomed to die overthe next twelve months and will have their
funerals and be buried in the churchyard. Yeah, and I say this used
to be a thing. It seemsto be a more of a northern thing,

(34:49):
but porch watching was a big feature. And you know, Matt,
can you imagine you know? Imean, I obviously I spent most of
my childhood in early years and raisedall my children in graveyards. Never would
I do a porch watch or anythinglike that. Never, I mean,
because I've always had this sort oflike it. I don't want to know

(35:12):
when it's the time's up, becauseif I know when the time's up,
I'm not going to enjoy the journey. So I would never even to this
day, if you said, Gloria, come on, let's go, I
would say, you can just geton that camera and ride off, because
I wouldn't want to know because therewould be there is an excitement in me

(35:32):
that would go real. I'd loveto do that, but however, I
think that would just play with mybrain and my mind and then I'd focus
on, oh my god, I'mgonna so no. But it's tantalizing thought.
And I can understand back in theday, and you know, when
you go back in history why peopledid what they did. I mean,

(35:53):
we didn't have internet, they didn'thave tempts. Some of them didn't have
books. I had no money andthey had to already telling or maybe when
we were younger, we'd go applescrumping. I no idea, hego,
it's illegal. I did it,and we'd do things like that, and
some areas they would go and inventtheir games. And you know, it's

(36:15):
quite possibly that there were some kidsand they went, you know what,
let's see, you know, andit could have started off watching the dead,
because yes, you can be ina graveyard and if you are tuned
into the spirit, well you cansee them all bloody walking in and out.
I have to tell you I Itook someone to a graveyard recently for

(36:35):
sort of it's like an initiation justto feel this book, and I'm stood
there and I was seeing eighteenth centurywalking, but I'm so used to that,
so I can then imagine how thatwould have come about and Chinese whispers.
But it's rich, I would say, it's rich cultural living history that

(36:57):
still exists, and it's manical forchildren especially. But I'm weird, So
it's okay, you know. Soright, we've got to the porch Watcher,
We've still got a long way togo. We're into politics, so
we think, yeah, where doyou where does this barrister come in?

(37:17):
What happens? Well, I realizedonce I'd got my politics degree, I
wasn't quite sure what I wanted todo next. Obviously needed to earn some
money at some point, and it'snot something that you right to the House

(37:39):
of Commons and say, I've gota degree in politics, can I become
an MP? Well, the worldwasn't worked like that. I don't think
I particularly wanted to be an MP. I had met quite a few during
my time at university and reinforce myopinion of them, which continues to be
at very low level through to thepresent day. So I wasn't quite sure

(38:01):
what to do. But I'd alreadystarted doing some writing at the time for
university newspapers and things of that nature. And I suppose realized I had a

(38:22):
kind of analytical mind that I couldtake a number of yeah, diverse facts
and string them together to make astory. And you know, somebody,
you know that in those days itwas always get a profession behind you,
and the idea of becoming an accountantjust didn't appeal to me, or you

(38:46):
know, a surveyor or something Idid, like architectural survey I did.
I did touch upon that because I'man artist. I love doing the design
and work that I did. Buthowever, I do agree with you and
I didn't want to be particularly asort of solicitor working in an office selling

(39:07):
houses is just what they largely didin those days. And again I suppose
the the idea appealed to be abarrister. You know you dress up in
a wig and gown. Well thatsays a lot there, yes, yeah,
yeah, yeah, And you knowthat there's the history element the ends

(39:29):
of court that you're a member of. And so I studied. I also
had the advantage that because of thecourse I'd done at university, I was
exempt a number of um modules modulesfor being a barrister, so I could

(39:52):
do it slightly more leisurely. SoI opted to be a barrister, and
I due course I became a barrister. I was called to the bar,
as it's called, and I practicedfor a couple of years and realized I'd

(40:13):
made the wrong decision. This reallywasn't for me. It was then again.
However, however, however, let'sdigress slightly here. You wore the
week, didn't you. I did? You did? And when you first
put that week on? I betthat felt good? It did it did?
Oh? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I mean that's what it's about.
You did all of that just toget that bloody wig on. However,

(40:36):
I'm going to stay there slightly.Is I think the history of law,
because obviously I studied criminology, andyes, I found not so much
the political part of it, butthe history of you know, these these
beings, these people years ago,and how they went about, you know,

(40:57):
the power they had, these barristerswere. So I would have,
you know, been really interested inthe historical when did the barrister begin?
And I would have loved that narrative. So I can understand, you know,
because I do have a fascination forcertain history. I can understand why
that would entice you in not justdressing up where in a week, Oh

(41:19):
yeah, exactly, exactly. Yeah. But I say, as you say,
the history. I was then livingin London and I practice in a
set in Gray's Inn, and thatwhole area of Hoburn and the edge of
the city of London again is thickin history, yes, and interesting history.

(41:44):
The the the Middle and Inner Temples, which are barristers sets are built
around the Templar Church. You know, you know, you've got that element
of it. Yea. It's avery ancient part of London. Um that's

(42:06):
unchanged, and that was that wasfascinating. But I say, yeah,
yeah, yeah around there, andyou know there's just up the road.
It was still relatively novel. Um. It's now being completely redeveloped and um

(42:28):
preserved in a far better way.But there was the Temple of Mithress that
was found, you know, andall the stories around Saint Paul's and Ludgate
Hill and things. So you wereyou were steeped in history, and when
a mysterious type of history. Yeah, when you say steeped in history,
coming from my truth is it's notjust the history, it's the vibration,

(42:52):
the energy, you know, theliving experience. I you know when I
mean I I have been up inthose areas obviously I'm from I've actually come
from Chelsea, Kensington. However,oh yes, I'm very potious. You
can tell um. But it's it'sI always keep going back to the duographical

(43:14):
location, like with you know,your childhood home in that area in London.
There is an energy, there isa narrative, there is a live
experience that's continually evolving, and Ithink we can learn a lot. And
it's fascinating because it's so mysterious andwhich we love mystery, which is we

(43:37):
love the Paranormally, the paranormal isjust another word for mystery. I suppose
we could, you know, wecould say that so I can imagine how
you, you know, with yourwig on, I'm going to really rip
your part forever now, you know, wearing your wig. I've never wore
wig anyway, I can imagine howthat would enrich you and in use you

(44:00):
and would only eat for me.It would only encourage me to go deeper,
to deeper in two mysteries or paranormal. So now where this barrister last
time dies with a week yep,what what comes after that? Well?
I discovered much as it was fascinatingthe tradition of the law, it really

(44:28):
wasn't a profession for me. Itwas how can I put it, It
was too brown nosing. It wasvery much yes, connections, deference,
barrister's cow tow to QCs, QC'scow tow to judges, judges you know,

(44:51):
not what you know, yeah,cow tow to higher level judges,
and so on all the way up. And it was just not just not
me, It was just I realizedit was wrong. So Um, through
circuitous routes, namely drinking in adrinking den in Fleet Street called the City

(45:15):
Golf Club, which I which Ishould stress, has nothing to do with
golf and nowhere near any golf,I met Um a journalist, and he
suggested a couple of things that Imight be able to write about, and
so I became eventually a freelance journalist, and I would write about everything and

(45:39):
anything, And I suppose one ofmy more interesting gigs was I used to
write a legal column for a weeklymagazine for doctors, and we'd occasionally go
off and I would write about doctorsas murderers, and they're an awful lot
of class cases off there. AndI wrote and wrote, and then I

(46:07):
got involved with computer technology. Thesewere the days when the first PCs were
coming out, things like the Commodorepet and dial up, dial up,
Get off the phone, I'm tryingto connect to the internet. Put the
I need to put I remember that'sit, yep, yep, exactly.

(46:30):
And I then made a career formyself basically putting the two sides of the
my knowledge together, my writing skillsplus my legal knowledge. I launched.
I became a specialist in technology forlawyers, technology for barristers, technology for

(46:53):
listeners, and launched a news letterabout it, and then did that for
a very long time. And Isuppose that was, if you like,
the rude appearance of the day jobsqueezing out a lot of other interests.
And so I'm afraid the ghost huntingand the interest in the occult was always

(47:19):
there, but actively pursuing it wasnot was not an option because there just
weren't enough hours in the day.And you know it happens to a lot
of people. Give the day jobgets in the way, you're worrying about
paying the mortgage and things of thatnature, and so it all slightly went

(47:42):
away, and it wasn't until muchlater. So we've chopped a large lump
out of the history here, butit wasn't till till much later that I
then had time to start once moreexploring it, and I wrote fiction,
ghost stories, horror stories, andthe life if you become a storyteller,

(48:07):
Yes, so we're now at thestoryteller. So we're like one, two,
three, four, number five inthe storyteller with the weird tales for
the weird time. Yeah. Well, I mean it all follows through the
storytelling because when you're a journalist,you're telling a story. Yeah, you've

(48:28):
got to keep the reader interested,carry the story through. When you're a
barrister and you're doing your summing upfor the jury, you are telling a
story and you want them to believeyour story in it to be more convincing
than on the other side story becauseit could be a true story or fiction.

(48:50):
Either way storytelling. It's storytelling,so you know, um, it
follows the way through and anyway.Um. I I wrote about those things
and then I started writing non fictionand going back to some of the stories

(49:10):
from my youth and where I grewup, and exploring the areas where I
grew up, and putting them togetheras a book and talking about them.
And then I got approached by variousonline magazines to write for them on a
regular basis about such matters ghostly,witchcrafty, spooky, folk glory, paranormal,

(49:37):
and then I was doing that.I then for a number of years.
I've now recently stopped it to focuson other projects, but I was
running a podcast, a weekly podcastabout the paranormal and po claw. And

(50:00):
then, you know, as thisis another element I suppose that I've noticed,
as as a writer or storyteller,your medium changes with time. So
when I first started, it waseverything was written on a typewriter and I'd
keep a carbon copy and I woulddeliver the hard copy to the newspaper that

(50:22):
they would use. Then we movedto computers and I would send floppy disks,
and then Internet, and then youknow, the written word gives way
to the spoken word with podcasting,and more recently I've now started experimenting doing
some YouTube videos. But I've alsogot a number of book projects on which

(50:47):
again are of folklore legends, ghosts. And I'm now writing a book as
well, looking at sorcerers, andwhich is through history and details. So
you know, I'm doing that.So the storytelling, the writing, all

(51:09):
of those elements are following through.But I suppose the key thing is for
me looking back, none of itwas planned. I didn't sit down and
say, right, I'm going togo to university and I'm going to get
a degree and I'm going to becomea chartered accountant and eventually I will have

(51:30):
my own practice and i will makea lot of money. That was never
the issue. And indeed, Irealized there are several points in my career
when I could have gone another wayI made a shedload of money, but
they just didn't appeal to me orit wasn't me. And so you know,
life has been a a rolling journeywhere I've never quite known where I'm

(51:55):
going next or what the future holds. Excuse me, I mean, obviously
I do resonate with that as well, because I was just thinking before we
come on to record the zoom andjust thinking as you do. I was
looking at the tree outside the window, and I'm in a village, it's
quiet, and and it just howthe hell did I get here what I'm

(52:21):
doing? The podcast? Who would? And I said, wow? And
then you start doing oh yeah,that one, that one, that one,
that one. So listening to yourjourney which is just so fascinating and
we couldn't go into all of it, you can just see how it just
evolved and all of you know,I always say, by going to university

(52:42):
and doing you know myself, theyouth justice system, social science and criminology
and its goo, they were justskill sets for the mind. I was
picking up like a training. Youknow. I never ever was going to
go off and be this one ina million criminologist or whatever trevel or change

(53:05):
the world that way. I hadan awareness I wasn't going to be,
but I was. I needed.I knew I needed for some reason.
These skill sets, all of theskill sets that I've had are now transferable
and I've transferred them to this stage. And I can see how going through
your university years, your politics andyou know, the barrister and wearing the

(53:29):
wig, I'm never going to letthat go now. But then skill sex
because it's very similar to as withwhat I've gone through is when i'd write,
you know, reports or child protectionreports or whatever I was writing for.
It was telling a story, tellinga narrative, but in a very
you know, context and precise waythat had to flow, so it's,

(53:53):
you know, to be presented.It had to have some form of professionalism
and big words going to universities,like learning a new language. I recall
that. So all of your skillsets that you went through, you know,
from politics to being a barrister,they've just all they're transferable skills that

(54:14):
you've taken now back into the workthat you're doing. Does that resonate with
it? Does no? Exactly it? And I say, I suppose.
One of the things I've always foundexciting and one of the reasons why possibly
I have chopped and changed and movedaround, is I like to be able

(54:36):
to get up in the morning andthink, now, what's going to happen
today? Yes, I don't wantto know it's going to be the same
as yesterday before, and the sameas the last twenty years. No,
no, no, yeah, Iagree with you. I get up and
I don't. Please, I don'twant a groundhog day. Yeah it is.

(54:57):
It is a sort of groundhole dayin a way, but it's not
because I do say, right,what am I going to experience today?
What's going to happen? Is itgoing to be shit? Is it going
to be good? Is it goingto be light bulb moment? But I'm
ready for the experience, And soI resonate with that too, that you're

(55:17):
at a point now I can't sayI'm always going to be a podcast host.
I had no idea I was cominghere to do this. I have
and that excites me the So itbasically is the mystery of my human experience.
Now it's a para normal human experience. It's a mystery because I don't
know the ending. And in fact, when you look back in hindsight,

(55:43):
you never knew. We never knewwhere we were going to go. Does
that make sense? We just blowedit? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
yeah, I mean I I didthat with the podcasting. I thought,
oh, it'll, you know,maybe a few weeks or something. But
I did it for four and ahalf years. Yeah, and I thought
I've been doing this too long.I do. One of the things I

(56:04):
do recognize that is that with someof the worked projects I did with the
if you're like the day job,I did stay too long and I should
have got out sooner, And I'malways conscious I don't want to do something
and then become stale. So youknow, I decided to pull the rug
on it and move on to trysomething else. And I've always been a

(56:28):
firm believer that as one door closes, another one opens. But if you
aren't prepared to close that door behindyou, you don't see any future opportunities
because you're blocking yourself out. You'renot allowing yourself the time is. I
couldn't possibly do that, you know, how would I find the time?
Well, that's because you're not makingthe jump. You've got to have I

(56:52):
suppose a leap of faith and sayit's time to go on and move something,
move and try and do something else. I mean many times we don't.
We don't even have a conscious awarenesswe're doing that. And I will
say, again, hindsight's a bit, you know, And I can look
back and go, well, Inever made a decision to move from that
job to that job, to thatfield to this film. How did that

(57:15):
happen? And I'm going you know, there were you could say there was
maybe a reality issue. It couldbe a divorce, it could be this
if you can see that, ButI don't. I don't remember making I'm
going to shut the door on this. I for my truth is like I've
done many projects in my life andI get this feeling you you you,

(57:36):
you touched upon it is. Ifelt that I was stagnating. So I
did make a conscious decision, Oh, I need to go and find So
I had to come to the realizationthat I wasn't feeling it anymore. There
was something and you know, mebeing me, i'd say, okay,

(57:57):
guys, guide show me synchronicity,whatever it is. I think when you
try to control shutting that door orthen sometimes you may go through a period
of turbulence because I think, Idon't know, maybe it could be a
little bullshit I'm saying, but mytruth is it has to be an organic,

(58:17):
natural recognition. Okay, this isnot serving me no more. I
don't want to experience this no more. Yeah. So does that resonate with
you? Definitely? Definitely, yeah, yeah, Yes, it's not as
if. Yeah, I did meeta guy and he actually wasn't accountant,
though he was working in a slightlydifferent area. I mean, my thing

(58:42):
about accountants is a bit like yourswith my wig. Yes, but he'd
he'd actually drawn up a schedule ofhow he saw his life progressing, with
sort of targets. By the ageof forty, I will be doing this.
By the age of fifty, I'llbe doing this. And um,
you know, something came along andcompletely blew it all out of the water

(59:06):
and he was definitely lost. Youknow, he got his plan. But
I'm supposed to be doing this now. No, you're not. That's that's
the thing. I mean, theuniverse will stop you if you're trying to
control your life. There is anelement of control, you know, there
is that normal, natural, organic, But if you're really trying to control,

(59:29):
you're going to lose. I meanthese people that you know that's I'm
going to be this, and I'mgoing to be that. You may slowly,
slowly get there, but the harderyou go, the harder you fall,
because you're trying to control the situationthat is that you really should not
be controlling. There are elements ofcontrol. Yes, we can marry you,
we won't if we you know,and sometimes you think, oh,

(59:50):
I've got the love of my life, and then you go, fuck,
I can need a divorce. Youknow. We always think we know what's
best I always come from. Maybeit's old sports. I have in my
experience tried to control situations and thatwas a waste of time. However,
the more organic you are, themore you let it flow. Okay,
like you said, what am Igoing to experience today? This arises,

(01:00:15):
Wow, what's going to happen?And if you're open to whatever comes to
you first, you've got no fear. Then you've got oh, I've got
this long term outcome like your accountant, and you can then let's say,
animate it and play with the experienceand enjoying go then you can get no.

(01:00:37):
But it's not a negative. It'snot pushing your back or because you
if you I always say, ifyou set your goals in the future,
it's a waste of time because bythe time you get to this lanear future,
you're going to be thinking of thenext future and you're going to be
missing every goddamn experience that experiencing.Does that resonate with you? Definitely?

(01:01:02):
Definitely, Yeah. No, I'vealways believed that that's you know, not
quite live in the moment, butcertainly live in the here and now.
Rather than yes, you know thatthe the I will I will do this
and I will not have fun duringmy life because I'm going to save up
and then go on a cruise whenI retire. Yeah, and when you

(01:01:28):
retire, you drop dead exactly.You didn't get the cruise because yeah,
I mean, you know, butmany people still do this, and if
they're free choice to do that,and if they wish to do that,
then that's their choice. However,I've you know, I watched Coming from
my age, which we are similar. Again, we're not Victorian, by
the way, even though he wearsa wig. You know it's and I

(01:01:52):
saw my elders back in the day. You know, you need to do
this and you've got to set thatand you need to and you need too
And for me, never fitting intothis one, I thought, God,
that's boring, most excitement if youknow what's coming. And then half the
time I'd watch the elder's divorce,die, bankruptcy and all of these why

(01:02:15):
has this happened? And so itwas like on the job through the experience,
by observing others and how it playedfor them. Being a youngster,
I thought, I don't fit inhere. That doesn't fit for me.
So I've been more of an organicoften fucked it up. And often made

(01:02:36):
the wrong decision and gone down,you know, the wrong path, only
come back to our side. Butthat's the journey, that's exactly exactly.
Yeah. So as we come tothe conclusion of this is just a fascinating
podcast, and we're going to haveto do another one, and we're really
going to go deep, a deepdive on something para normal because I love

(01:02:59):
the par and all as I would. Um, So where are you at
now? Um? Name your sellyour wares shamelessly you may put the wig
on as well. Where are younow? What are you creating now?
What's your projects? And if peopleare interested in your book, for your
writings or anymore, and you sellyourself on the show, right, Well,

(01:03:23):
my current book, I'm just goingto yes, just going to pop
out and show you the book.That's it. And I'm here home alone
my guest as he f the room, Um, and I'm going to admire
his magnificent fireplace over there. Right, he's back. I was admiring your
fireplace, all right. My currentbook is this one. It's called Haunted

(01:03:52):
Landscapes, and I'm turning it thewrong way and this is going to be
a series and it's really picking upwhat we were talking about earlier, about
places that are steeped in atmosphere ritualmagic. Oh, yes, there's there's

(01:04:15):
a history to them. There.They are places where I suppose the phrase
I use as a sort of axisof weird this You think, how did
this place that's a relatively small partof the country nobody's ever heard of,
how did it get to be likethis? And it just looks at them
all and brings everything together and wonder. What intrigues me is how it once

(01:04:42):
you start scratching the surface, justhow much there is there. That is
the book. It's available on Amazonum and it's also available in various bookshops.
Um My. There will be moreof those coming out. But my
immediate project is a book called Allof Them Witches, which is an almanac

(01:05:09):
of witches and sorcerers, but givingsome historical context. Now I mean I
did, yeah, going way wayback to ancient times. Oh god,
that's also also featuring more modern practitioners. I mean, I'm into the ancient.
I remember, you know, throughmy journey and I'd study, I

(01:05:30):
used to research, and I wasfascinated. I mean maybe because you know,
I was a medium, which isthe same thing as a witch.
I suppose the oracles of the OracleDelphy. I'd go, I'd go everywhere,
and I would read everything, andI would just so I love this,
and I had this love to hearall these these stories and what they

(01:05:55):
would do and how they would cometo the oracle. And I remember someone
was trying to poo because I like, to me, it's all true.
Sorry, I'm still a charge.And someone wrote sank years ago kind of
call in good job. I haven'tremembered their name, so that's good because
they don't deserve it. It wasabout the Oracle Delphi or somebody or Mithross

(01:06:16):
or somewhat one of them and themagic, and it was so so beautiful,
and this so called you know,scientific whatever to ever come up and
said, well, the reason thatthis happened is because in the geograph,
in the geology of the landscape,there was this chemical coming now and he
went all down that road. AndI'm telling you what to say, Yes,

(01:06:40):
why are you taking the magic out? It's the magic that's real because
we are magical beings, we arewe can interact with this. So that's
going to be a fantastic book.And I want one right, I shall
get you one. The other thingim, I've got to finish writing it
first, the pressure pressure. Um. The other thing I'm doing are a

(01:07:05):
series of short YouTube videos and youcan find them on YouTube on Weird Tales
Show, which is the name ofthe channel. Okay, and shortly later
today there's a new one going upwhich is about the Witches of Franderston,
which is a little place. Ohobviously I'm not a very good researcher.

(01:07:30):
Could you please say the name ofthat channel again, because I know what
I'm viewing today, Weird Tales Show. Right, Weird Tales Show, I
know who you are with the weekon, so I'm going to be on
the YouTube. Yeah, and Isay, there's there's one there about the
Witches of Franderstone, which is achurch where they have carvings of two witches

(01:07:53):
there looking at the background and thetie in with the lowest stuff which try
in the seventeenth century. Wow,there's even a connection with Salem and the
witch trials there. Wow. NowI have researched that and a couple of
years ago. I'm in Buckinghamshire,so I'm in a village in one of
the villages in Buckinghamshire. A coupleof years ago, some friends of mine

(01:08:16):
who were mediums, which is whateveryou want to call them, they took
me. I can't remember the place, but it was it's in Buckinghamshire and
they took me to this area andthere was a pond, there was an
old pub and it was a duckingpond and in this area where they would
duck the witches and there's a lotof history. But at the time I

(01:08:38):
didn't have you know, that wasn'tenough hours in the day. You know,
I want to go there, butI can't because I've got I've got
to work, I've got to dothis, I've got to raise my children.
I've got you know. But Iam aware and one day where there
are more hours in a day,I would love to get, you know,
the history on that. So ifyou ever find anything about the local

(01:09:00):
area to in Buckinghamshire of witches,there were witches trials and you know in
this area of it's got a lotof history here. We had the Knights
templates here by the way, becauseI found them. We searched them in
the archives, found their names andeverything. We've got a lot of history
here, but no one's apart fromweirdomi is to be interested in and I

(01:09:25):
with you know, if anyone findsany history of witches and warlocks and wizards,
and you know, and another oneI've got to say before we close,
because I'm just now, I'm inmy passion. You know, I
believe in Merlin. I'm so sorry. I think it's just the Chinese whisper
slightly change. I believe because I'vewitnessed spiritual alchemy for real, that is

(01:09:51):
real, that is scientifically proven byquantum physics. Or now I can look
back at all these beautiful stories isand what you call mysteries and say,
when now I can validate that itwasn't mythology. And when I studied mythology,
I mean the Greek gods, Ifell in love with it. I

(01:10:11):
mean I was like, oh myGod, the superpowers. And but now
I can look up and say,the mythology is the truth. That's the
truth, and the others a lie. And you can see how the current
modern historical narrative has attempted, andvery successfully in a lot of places,

(01:10:36):
taken away the truth of the expressionof being a human being here on this
wonderful planet. And how connected throughmythology, we were to nature. Does
that make sense to you? Well? Granting off here, but it does.

(01:10:56):
Now. I know we're drawing tothe end of the show, but
I just thought I would carry areyou because I still have it? Here?
Your wig? The wig? Ohmy god? Oh, come on,
you've got to do it just forme. Come on, right,
here we go. Do I callyou your lordship? What do I call
you? Oh? My gosh,oh my lord. Oh, I'll get

(01:11:25):
it right, darling, get yourwig on here we are right? Do
I call you your lordship? No, you don't work to de side.
Oh you don't know. You don'tcall me my ship? What do I
call you? If you? Ifyou are, I think you just the
the the way, the way theway barristers do it. Actually, they

(01:11:46):
refer to themselves by their um surnames. Um. This is this is the
ten it comes the wig comes in. So you would call yourself J.
C. Christians. That's that's thetitle. There's a whole there's a whole
history too. There's a whole historyto the esquire thing as well. Yeah,

(01:12:09):
which is when you when you nameyourself, do you have put a
plum in your mouth? There's men. You don't I know how to be
postarling with my birthright? Yeah?Um wow, how did that make you
feel? I mean, you know, I don't know. I just could
never. I'd never want to attainto such human grandiose. Really. Um,

(01:12:35):
I've always wanted to put off abarrister's wig since childhood. Every one
day when meat where meat? Orgo and adventure in your lands. You
can take me on a spooky paneland we're video it. Oh, we
can go spooky and you'll put yourwig on a largest I've always wanted two
things to do. This is stillthe child in me. Put off a

(01:12:57):
barrister's wig. Yeah, because throughstudying law the law is corrupt and knock
a policeman's helmet off. But anold school bobby, I know. Did
you ever want to go? Becausethey did grab you as children and gar
and they you know, so I'vealways wanted to do that. Yeah.

(01:13:23):
Yeah, I never had that opportunityas a child because the local police in
Scarborough, Yorkshire, they all worethe flat caps, they didn't wear the
pointed bobby ones. That's where youmake the our country bread, isn't it?
Is it? Is it? Tetleyor somebody or the foreign parts of

(01:13:45):
it. In London, they hadthese like beacons and they all walked all
the same And as a child,you know, many of you know.
I think my brother did it once, God rest his soul, I think.
And he did it when he wasolder. Actually he knocked their hats
off. Yes, got arrested forit. That however, it was the

(01:14:06):
thing. It was a giggle toknock. And back in the day you
never went to prison, you neverwent to call if you did something cheeky.
And they knew in London, childrenespecially, they knew you were just
daring. You'd been dead by thegroup, the gang and others would go
and do something to a bobby andthey chase you. You got away if

(01:14:28):
they couldn't run very fast because weknew the backstreets of London, we knew
the underground, we knew where togo. They had no ideas. So
it's just one of my weird thingsthat come out. And I'm gonna pull
your wig off, you know what, Charles. It has been a fascinating
show, and I'm so grateful foryou coming on. That's my pleasure,
Glauria, and and I'm going tohave you back on there's no doubt about

(01:14:55):
that. It's been a great conversationand I hope you've all enjoyed the show
as much as I have. It'snot always a word about me, but
it's fascinating and you can get holdof it Charles's books and to find out
more, and I'm going to stalkCharles on the YouTube channel. I'm going

(01:15:15):
to get myself up to watch theseand give my critique. And until next
time, everybody, thank you forwatching Inception Podcast special and remember guys on
the Forbidden Knowledge News Network. It'sby for now.