April 23, 2025 • 28 mins
In this episode, Jeff dives into one of the biggest challenges indie filmmakers face: securing financing. He shares insights on the uphill battle of finding funding and breaks down practical steps to help you attract third-party investors—whom he affectionately refers to as “Uncle Charlies.”
Jeff also explores alternative financing options, such as reaching out to family and friends, and offers valuable tips on how to effectively pitch your first indie film to improve your chances of getting the funding you need.
Key Takeaways:
Jeff also explores alternative financing options, such as reaching out to family and friends, and offers valuable tips on how to effectively pitch your first indie film to improve your chances of getting the funding you need.
Key Takeaways:
- Understanding the challenges of indie film financing
- Who are the “Uncle Charlies” and how to find them
- The pros and cons of family and friend investors
- Tips to craft a compelling pitch for potential backers
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
In this episode, we are going to learn about one
of the hardest, most challenging things about filmmaking, and that
is financing, getting the money to make your movie. So
many indie filmmakers struggle with this. There are so many
great indie films that don't get made because indie filmmakers
struggle with getting the financing for their movies. I am
(00:23):
going to debunk how this works. I'm going to explain
to you where the money comes from and how to
get it. So pay attention, hold on to your seats
because this one is one of the super challenging components
of indie filmmaking. Let's get into it. If you want
to be a successful indie filmmaker, you need to know
(00:43):
a lot about not just the production of movies, but
the business. We are going to tell you the truth
and reality of what really happens in the indie film business. Okay,
so we spoke about last episode about you have a
great idea for a movie. You figured out who your
(01:05):
audience is, you figured out how you're going to be
able to market to them. You are ready to make
this great movie. Now you got to get money to
make the movie. Getting money is so challenging. All Right,
this is the area that most indie filmmakers struggle with
the most. This is the area that I do the
(01:25):
most amount of consulting on, because it is super, super
difficult to get money, not just for indie filmmaking, for
any entrepreneurial upstart. That's what making an indie film is.
It's an entrepreneurial upstart. You're basically creating a new business
and you've got to figure out how to get it financed.
(01:46):
So let's look at the various ways to get money
for an indie film. Okay, So I am going to
tell you from experience that most indie films, Remember we're
talking about films in the budget range of approximately let's
call it seven hundred thousand. Okay, that's the amount of
money we're talking about. We're not talking twenty five thousand
dollars from your parents. We're not talking ten million dollars
(02:09):
from some venture capital company or something like that. We're
talking seven hundred thousand dollars. Most times, ninety nine times
out of one hundred, that money is going to come
from private investors otherwise known as high net worth individuals,
otherwise known as rich people. All Right, That's where the
(02:31):
money generally comes from for an indie film. Rich people
say I believe in this concept, and I believe in
this filmmaker, and I'm willing to fund it. That's where
most of the money comes from for indie filmmaking. All Right,
People will tell you other things, all right. People tell
you about crowdfunding. People are going to tell you about
(02:51):
tax credits. People are going to tell you lots of
other things. And I'm going to tell you all about
those things too. We're going to talk a little bit
about crowdfunding and tax credits and things like that in
this episode, and then in future episodes we're going to
talk in more detail. But I am telling you from experience,
having financed and made nine indie feature films, ninety nine
percent of the time the money is coming from high
(03:12):
net worth individuals rich people. Okay, so collectively I just
use this term. I call rich people Uncle Charlie, rich
uncle Charlie. Okay, Rich Uncle Charlie could be one person,
or it could be a group of people I just
call uncle Charlie. Is what we're gonna call the group
of high net worth individuals instead of calling them rich
(03:33):
people and high net worth individuals I call them Uncle Charlie. Okay,
that's the group of investors and gain. It could be
one person or a group of people. So the first
question is, and I'm telling you that's where you're gonna
get the money from Uncle Charlie. The first question is
who is Uncle Charlie. Where does Uncle Charlie live? Who
(03:55):
is Uncle Charlie? So, depending on your life and who
you are, Uncle Charlie could be very obvious. You could
actually have a rich uncle Charlie. You could have an
uncle his name is Charlie and he could be super rich.
And maybe that's where you're going to get the money
from your rich uncle Charlie, all right, or somebody like that,
(04:17):
some very very rich relative or friend who knows you
really well and trusts you and is willing to take
a chance with you. So in that case, you're lucky
because you have what we call a network which to
tap into. So maybe you know you've got, you know,
a friend who is a very rich financial investment banker
(04:40):
or real estate mogul, and they have other friends, or
you run in those circles. You know, maybe you are
a member of a posh golf club where you have
lots of high net worth individual Uncle Charlie's around you,
who have the ability, who have extra cash available, who
can take a chance on an entrepreneurial venture like a film.
(05:02):
If you have that network around you, you're lucky. Those
are the people you're gonna want to go to. Those
people and their friends and associates, all right. So some
people have that. Some people are either born into it
or have figured out how to get into those circles,
all right. So these are circles of rich people of
Uncle Charlie's. If you don't have that, if you aren't
(05:25):
surrounded by Uncle Charlie's rich people, then you're going to
have to go find them, and you're gonna have to
go and kind of get into their circles and their world.
That is not easy. That is very, very, very difficult.
Probably the most challenging thing is getting into the network
(05:47):
of Uncle Charlie because generally speaking, Uncle Charlie doesn't want
you in his network. He's got enough people in his
network and he doesn't need somebody else muddling around in
his network with his high net worth ind visual friends.
So who are these high net worth individuals, these Uncle Charlie's.
If you don't have them. You're not in your world.
(06:08):
They are people like real estate people, investment banker people, lawyers, doctors, professionals,
other people who generally have you know, a lot of
net worth. But you don't know them. But you're going
to get to know them. Now, how do you do that.
(06:29):
You don't go up to them in the parking lot
of a Bloomingdale's waiting outside. You don't accost them. You
don't wait outside their driveways as they're getting into their
porsches and driving away. That doesn't work, all right. You
definitely don't stalk anybody. What you got to do is
you got to figure out how to get yourself into
(06:51):
their circles. Now, what are their circles? There are many, many,
many circles. You just have to get creative, and you
have to do it politely and professionally. So I'll give
you an example of a circle. I said it before.
A posh golf club. All right. Lots of rich people
(07:11):
are members of country clubs, golf and country clubs or
tennis clubs or something like that. All right, that's what
rich people like to spend their money on. A lot
of people just join a high end club and they're there,
so you can't afford to join that club. How are
you going to get in? As crazy as this sounds,
and you're not gonna love it, but maybe it's what
(07:34):
you're gonna have to do. Maybe you're gonna have to
take a job working at that club. So let's talk
about a golf club, all right. Maybe you're gonna have
to take a part time job working on the weekends
or the evenings or something in the dining room or
maybe in the golf club backroom or the pro shop
or something like that. And you know, part of that
(07:54):
job is you're going to make some money, but the
other major reason you're going to do that is so
that you can start to meet people at that income level.
And it's not gonna happen overnight. All right, You're gonna
have to work there for six months to a year.
They're gonna have to get to know you. You're gonna
have to be friendly, you're gonna have to be very professional.
(08:18):
But then you're gonna get to know them and at
the right time, at the right moment, if the right
moment appears. But you're going to create the right moment,
which we'll talk about in a few minutes what the
right moment is. Then you are going to say, hey,
I'm a filmmaker and I'm working on this film and
I'd like to pitch you and show you kind of
(08:38):
what it's all about. And you're going to show them
a super professional investor pitch package, which we're going to
talk about in the next episode. I'm going to go
through all of the detailed elements on how to create
an investor pitch deck that's super compelling and will be
interesting to potential investors. But right now, we're talking about networking.
(09:00):
Right now, you say, but I don't want to spend
a year, you know, working in a country club cleaning
people's golf clubs, And I say, okay, then go work
in a high end restaurant, maybe be the maitre d
or a waiter or something like that. But the golf club,
you're going to meet people better and you're going to
get to know them better because they're going to be
(09:21):
more familiar with you. So you got to do something.
You can't just sit there and assume that they're going
to find you, because they're not. And this is super
aggravating and can be super frustrating for indie filmmakers because
they just weren't born into a circle of high net
worth individuals. I get it, I totally get it. But
(09:42):
if you aren't, you got to come up with a
strategy to get in there. And I'm telling you that's
a strategy that I've seen work before if you can
get a job there. And again, that's just one of many,
all right, there's other places where Uncle Charlie go, and
you got to go where I'm Charlie's are because you've
got to get in front of them and you got
(10:02):
to meet them, all right, And that's the way to
do it. So if and when you have the opportunity,
they get to know you over the course of six
months or a year. Like I say, and here's the
reason that they're going to potentially listen to your pitch
and potentially invest with you. It is because they like you,
(10:24):
all right. Remember, they don't know anything about your project.
They probably don't even know that you're an aspiring filmmaker.
They just know that you are a nice person, all right.
So I'm gonna go with a guy as opposed to
a girl, because I'm a guy, all right. They're gonna say, Wow,
he's a nice guy. He's polite, he's professional, he takes
good care of me, and there's a relationship there. Now
(10:48):
you're the worker, they're the guest. There's a professional distance
you have to keep. But every once in a while
you find the right person who is willing to believe
in you actually take a chance. Now, I'm going to
tell you what rich people are looking for when they
want to take a chance in an entrepreneurial venture. All right.
(11:10):
As an investor, rich people they want two things. One,
they want return on investment, meaning they want to make
their money back with a profit. That's called return on investment,
all right. They want their money back, and they want
to make a profit in addition to that. That's number one.
That's why they're rich. Not necessarily they could have inherited
(11:32):
it or whatever, but but they don't like to part
with their money. These aren't donations you're looking for. Remember
we'll talk about donations soon. But what we're looking for
is investors. Investors like to get return on investment. Number two,
they want to deal with people who they trust, like
and trust. All right. If they don't like you, and
(11:54):
they don't trust you, it doesn't matter how potentially good
your investment. Is going to be. They're not going to
invest with you rich people. When it comes to entrepreneurial
investments like low budget indie films like this kind of thing,
they are investing in the filmmaker, not the film. You've
got to understand that. Or in other words, what people
(12:17):
say is they're betting on the jockey, not the horse. Right,
they are not betting on the film. They're betting on
the filmmaker. They're going to invest with you because they
like and trust you. They don't know anything about filmmaking.
They don't know anything about the indie film business, they
don't know how films get made. They're not going to
(12:40):
even read your script because they don't really care about
the movie. As long as it's not something that they're
going to be embarrassed about, like you know, they're probably
not going to invest in porn or maybe super violent
thrasher horror or I don't know, something that's racist obviously, Okay,
if it's normal everyday entertainment that they think is cool,
(13:01):
you just have to tell them a little bit about
the movie. But what you've got to convince them is
is that you are a super professional, trustworthy person who
is going to take care of their money and give
it your best shot. They know that it's a high risk,
they know there's a big chance of losing, and you're
going to tell them that, all right. That's one of
the things that's going to make you credible is you're
(13:23):
going to actually tell them the truth about how high
risk it is. If they like you and they trust
you and believe that you are going to give it
your best shot, then you have a chance to get
money from them, all right, and make your film and
make it enjoyable for them. So again, we're going I'm
gonna explain how to do a pitch package properly and
(13:43):
how get them to focus on the right things in
a very short period of time because they are very
busy people or they're also add attention deficit disorder, they
have very short attention spans. So we're going to talk
about how to pitch them properly. But the thing that
you have to understand is you're not pitching a film.
You're pitching yourself. They're investing in you, the filmmaker, not
(14:09):
the film. That is the case with most entrepreneurial new startups.
They invest with the entrepreneur. They believe that the entrepreneur,
has vision, has persistence, has talent, has skills, and they
want to take a shot because they generally don't know
the business all right. They know their own businesses doctors,
(14:30):
no medicine, real estate people know real estate, investment bankers
no money, they don't know filmmaking. They assume that you
know filmmaking, and they assume that you're going to be
good at it, and you are, hopefully all right, but
they need to trust you. They need to see that
you're credible, that you're honest, that you're straightforward, you're hard working,
(14:51):
You're going to give it your best shot. That is
what you're selling to them. That's what Uncle Charlie wants
to invest in, all right. So over the course of
that six months to a year, when you are potentially
working at that golf club, and again that's just one example,
you're gonna be super polite, you're gonna be nice, you're
gonna be friendly, you're gonna be honest, you're gonna be real.
(15:13):
You've got to make them feel good about you. That
is the mission. You are not trying to pull the
wool over anybody's eyes. You are trying to have develop
a relationship with somebody who is willing to say, hey,
this is a good person. Unfortunately they weren't born into
Uncle Charlie's circles. But that doesn't mean they can't give
it a shot and do the rags to riches story
(15:35):
and be super successful. They're willing to try. They're willing
to try if you are the right chemistry for them,
the right personality, the right fit, and they trust you.
That's what it's all about, all right. So trust and
credibility is what you're trying to create with Uncle Charlie.
When you have trust and credibility, then Uncle Charlie will
(15:56):
let you pitch to him. He will not only let
you pitch to him, He'll put you in front of
his friends. He'll give you the ability. He'll open the
door to let you pitch your project, which is your
indie film, to people who have the ability to give
you the money. That's the secret. Now, how you do
the pitch is super important, and we're going to talk
(16:17):
about that in the next episode. I Am going to
go element by element and teach you how to build
a proper pitch and teach you how to pitch it properly.
All right, As I say to my students. There's the story,
So the story is the pitch deck, and then there
is the telling of the story, which is basically how
you pitch the pitch deck. It's kind of like me
talking to you right now. All right, there's the material
(16:40):
that I'm talking about, and then there's how I'm delivering
the material. Am I using my hands? Am I using
my voice a certain way? Am I passionate? What's the
speed at which I'm talking? You know? Am I paying
attention to who I'm pitching to? This is about pitching properly,
So we'll talk about that in the next episode. But
right now we're talking about how to get in the
room with Uncle Charlie. So that's how you get in
(17:02):
the room now. Also, Uncle Charlie might be one person,
and you might need more than one, meaning you have
to ask Uncle Charlie very politely to put you in
with his friends and other people other uncle Charlie's and
Uncle Charlie will do that. If he likes you, he
will connect you or he'll put you in front of
other people. That is called networking. So networking is once
(17:24):
you get into the network, you work it. Do not
be obnoxious, Do not be that person at the cocktail party.
Who is too big, too obnoxious? Now, you do need
to be friendly. Sometimes it's going to take you out
of your comfort zone. Sometimes you're gonna have to do
things that you normally wouldn't do, like approach somebody and
(17:45):
have a nice conversation with them that you'd normally maybe
be too shy to do. The trick is just always
be professional and classy and honest, all right, be real
And if you can't be, then get a wingman. Get
somebody who can help you. Get a nice girl that
they're gonna want to talk to. That'll be your wing Matt,
(18:05):
all right. Get somebody who maybe work as a team
and be a good team together. Because remember, as I
told you, uncle Charlie wants to like you. He wants
to like you and your associates whatever, and trust you.
So make sure that the chemistry is right. Now. That
is where most of the money is going to come
(18:25):
from for your indie films. There are either places, all right.
There's family and friends. So remember I said, uncle Charlie
is somebody who're not related to It's not your family
and friends. I mean it could be it could be
your uncle Charlie, right, But Generally these are third party
people who are investors who potentially have the money and
are willing to take a chance with you. But they
(18:47):
also could be your family and friends. All right. Here
is the secret with family and friends, and with everybody,
by the way, even non family and friends. Never ever
ever take money from people who can't afford to lose it,
especially family and friends. Never take their money. I know
(19:07):
you really want to make a film, and I know
that they want you to make a film. They want
you to live your dream, especially say your parents. Okay,
your parents, and your sisters and your brothers, Okay, they
love you. They want to support you. They know you
have this dream of wanting to make this movie, and
you've had it for a decade or two decades, your
whole life. So they just want to see you live
(19:29):
your dream. They love you so much, they're willing to
give you a lot of money to do it. Don't
take their money unless they can afford to lose it.
The last thing you want to do is take your
parents retirement money, make a film and not be able
to pay them back. And I'll tell you why. And
this is from experience. I am telling you this. Okay,
(19:50):
it is way more difficult, challenging and trying on you
to lose somebody else's money than it is to lose
your own. When you lose somebody else's money who you
care about, and that it matters to that their money
matters to them, you can never forget that. You will
always know that you robbed your parents of their retirement.
(20:13):
You'll never sleep at night. You'll feel terrible, all right,
if you were to lose your own money, then you're
gonna feel bad. But you don't have anybody else's answer
to or worry about. It's just yourself. Yeah, you're gonna
feel terrible, but you'll make it up. You'll figure it
out in your life. When you lose your parents or
your brothers, or your sisters, or your uncle's money and
they couldn't afford to lose it, and now all of
(20:34):
a sudden their life is changed and they can't retire
properly or whatever, you're god gonna sleep at night. Not
only that, the relationship will never be the same. So
I am telling you don't take money from people unless
they can afford to lose it, meaning that if they
lose the money, all of the money, it will not
have any effect on their lifestyle. Right, That's what I'm
(20:57):
talking about. When I say they can afford to lose it,
it means that if they lose the money, nothing changes
in their life. This is disposable income that's not going
to affect how they live. So do not take money
from people, private investors money unless they can afford to
lose it. Now, rich uncle Charlie generally can afford to
lose it, all right, And rich Uncle Charlie is smart
(21:18):
enough to only give you an amount that he can
afford to lose, because rich Uncle Charlie isn't sort of
related to you. He's a third party person. But your
parents and your friends and your close associates, they'll do
it out of love. Those will be more donations than
they will be investments. They're going to give it to
you because they love you. Yes, would they like it back,
(21:38):
of course they would. Would they like a return on
their investment, Yes, of course they would. But they're going
to do it out of love. Because that's why I
say it's more of a donation. They want to help
you out, They want you to live your dream. So
I'm saying, be very very cognizant of that. You can
take money from them, but only at the level that
they're comfortable and that it's not going to change their lifestyle.
(21:58):
I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. Okay, Now here's
a couple of other tips. First of all, are there
other ways to get money? Yeah, people talk about crowdfunding.
We're going to do an episode on crowdfunding. Crowdfunding is
what I would say, is more development money. It's money
that you're going to use to develop your project at
the beginning. Because remember we're talking about seven hundred thousand
(22:18):
dollars budgets. Here a good, really good crowdfunding campaign, If
it's really, really good, you're gonna get fifty thousand. Right,
that's a really good one. Now, have people raised seven hundred, Yes,
the odd person. Have people want a lottery, yes, the
odd person. You don't make a business plan being the
odd person. You don't make it being you know, based
on the anomaly. You do it based on the reality.
(22:41):
All right, So crowdfunding is just not going to raise
enough money to actually do the production of a feature film.
It might be for development, it might be for marketing,
it might be finishing funds, it might be some other stuff,
but it's not the production of a seven hundred thousand
dollar feature film. So in any case, I will do
a crowdfunding episode, but don't think that that's going to
(23:01):
be your primary source of financing. It isn't tax credits. Okay.
People say, well, tax credits, that's twenty five percent of
my budget, and I say, yes, it is, but it's
not your financing because a tax credit comes sometimes two
years after you make your movie, and you need financing
to make the movie. So tax credits are going to
(23:24):
be revenue that come back to you. And I'm going
to do a whole episode on tax credits and other
financial incentives, and I'm can explain to you how that works,
how the timing works. So tax credits, do not consider
them a form of financing. They're a form of revenue
to recoup your investment afterwards. Because they come after the fact,
(23:47):
like a year or two afterwards, you can't use that
money to make your film. Now. People say, oh, but
I will lend against the tax credit, and I say,
maybe you will, but chances you won't on a slow
budget indie film. And when I do the tax credit seminar,
I'll explain to you why it's way too expensive. And
not viable to finance a tax credit at that level.
(24:10):
The cost of financing the legals, all this kind of
stuff are almost prohibitive when you're doing a seven hundred
thousand dollars film. So I will go into detail in
another episode when we talk about tax credits and why
you shouldn't consider that as a source of financing upfront.
So financing is coming from Uncle Charlie and networking with
Uncle Charlie. That's the secret, all right, And I explain
(24:33):
that some people are born into the Uncle Charlie world
and some aren't, and some have to try much harder
to get into that world. So networking is everything, and
it's not easy. Now here's the other thing, all right.
This is what I said before. Investments are about trust,
they're about honesty, they're about credibility. Credibility is the key thing.
(24:56):
So let me explain why people believe other pe people
are credible. Here's the short list. Okay. Number one, you
got to be able to do what you say you
can do. If you say that you are able to
make a movie, you better darn well be able to
make it. So sometimes people say, oh, I'm going to
(25:16):
make a movie, and they've actually never made a movie before,
and then they take the money and they have good intentions.
Their intentions are honorable and very good, but they don't
have any experience and they actually don't have the proper
skill set. And in some ways, that's a lie that
you said you know what you're doing, So just make
sure you know what you're doing, or make sure you
surround yourself with people who know what they're doing, because
(25:39):
when Uncle Charlie gives you that money, he's going to
expect that you actually know what you're doing. That's on
the making of the movie. He's also going to expect
that once you make the movie, you know how to
get it properly distributed, because that's part of the process,
all right, making the movie. You're only halfway there, maybe
(26:00):
in less than halfway. Selling the movie is where Uncle
Charlie's getting his money back, So he needs to know
and feel comfortable that you actually know how to navigate
that process. Now chances are you don't, so you're gonna
need to figure it out. And that's why you're gonna
have to listen to all of my episodes because I'm
gonna get to that. We're gonna do tons of episodes
(26:21):
on dealing with how to get things distributed so that
when you tell Uncle Charlie you know what you're talking about,
then hopefully you do know what you're talking about. Okay.
That's the biggest part of credibility is the skill set
to be able to deliver what you told Uncle Charlie
you were able to do. Here's the other thing that
people struggle with, and honestly, I'm telling this. I tell
(26:43):
my kids this, I tell my students. This is the
one sort of mantra that I live by, hopefully, is
just be honest. Honesty is so important, all right. Honesty
is the foundation of all trust and all credibility. If
you don't know what you're doing, just be honest and
(27:03):
say you don't, but you're gonna learn it, all right.
If something goes wrong, tell people went wrong, but you're
going to fix it. Just tell the truth. It's so
much easier to tell the truth and be honest and
not get caught up in lies and tangled in webs
of deceit than it is to just be upfront and honest.
If you're not honest, you're not going to be credible.
(27:25):
People are going to read through it. So there are
going to be things that you're going to struggle with,
and just tell them that. Say, there's a couple of
things that I still have to learn, there's a couple
people I have to f filly myself. I'm gonna put
a great team together because there's a few things that
I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm going to
surround myself with people who do. It's credible to say that,
(27:47):
it's honest to say that. It's professional to say that.
All right, to say you can't know everything. But if
you are honest about it and you say, here's what
I'm really good at, and now I'm surrounding myself with
other people who are better at these things, and we're
going to be a great team. That's how that's going
to work. Uncle Charlie is going to respect that, and
(28:10):
he's going to believe that you're credible because you told
the truth to him, and that's what he really wants
to see. So is networking easy. No, it's crazy difficult.
But you can do this. You can do it. You
just have to step back, be a good, honest, straightforward person,
try your best, be very persistent, be patient, be friendly,
(28:33):
be professional, and it will come. It will come. If
you're lucky, it'll come quickly. If you're not, it might
take a little bit of time, but you will get there.
Good luck,
In this episode, we are going to learn about one
of the hardest, most challenging things about filmmaking, and that
is financing, getting the money to make your movie. So
many indie filmmakers struggle with this. There are so many
great indie films that don't get made because indie filmmakers
struggle with getting the financing for their movies. I am
(00:23):
going to debunk how this works. I'm going to explain
to you where the money comes from and how to
get it. So pay attention, hold on to your seats
because this one is one of the super challenging components
of indie filmmaking. Let's get into it. If you want
to be a successful indie filmmaker, you need to know
(00:43):
a lot about not just the production of movies, but
the business. We are going to tell you the truth
and reality of what really happens in the indie film business. Okay,
so we spoke about last episode about you have a
great idea for a movie. You figured out who your
(01:05):
audience is, you figured out how you're going to be
able to market to them. You are ready to make
this great movie. Now you got to get money to
make the movie. Getting money is so challenging. All Right,
this is the area that most indie filmmakers struggle with
the most. This is the area that I do the
(01:25):
most amount of consulting on, because it is super, super
difficult to get money, not just for indie filmmaking, for
any entrepreneurial upstart. That's what making an indie film is.
It's an entrepreneurial upstart. You're basically creating a new business
and you've got to figure out how to get it financed.
(01:46):
So let's look at the various ways to get money
for an indie film. Okay, So I am going to
tell you from experience that most indie films, Remember we're
talking about films in the budget range of approximately let's
call it seven hundred thousand. Okay, that's the amount of
money we're talking about. We're not talking twenty five thousand
dollars from your parents. We're not talking ten million dollars
(02:09):
from some venture capital company or something like that. We're
talking seven hundred thousand dollars. Most times, ninety nine times
out of one hundred, that money is going to come
from private investors otherwise known as high net worth individuals,
otherwise known as rich people. All Right, That's where the
(02:31):
money generally comes from for an indie film. Rich people
say I believe in this concept, and I believe in
this filmmaker, and I'm willing to fund it. That's where
most of the money comes from for indie filmmaking. All Right,
People will tell you other things, all right. People tell
you about crowdfunding. People are going to tell you about
(02:51):
tax credits. People are going to tell you lots of
other things. And I'm going to tell you all about
those things too. We're going to talk a little bit
about crowdfunding and tax credits and things like that in
this episode, and then in future episodes we're going to
talk in more detail. But I am telling you from experience,
having financed and made nine indie feature films, ninety nine
percent of the time the money is coming from high
(03:12):
net worth individuals rich people. Okay, so collectively I just
use this term. I call rich people Uncle Charlie, rich
uncle Charlie. Okay, Rich Uncle Charlie could be one person,
or it could be a group of people I just
call uncle Charlie. Is what we're gonna call the group
of high net worth individuals instead of calling them rich
(03:33):
people and high net worth individuals I call them Uncle Charlie. Okay,
that's the group of investors and gain. It could be
one person or a group of people. So the first
question is, and I'm telling you that's where you're gonna
get the money from Uncle Charlie. The first question is
who is Uncle Charlie. Where does Uncle Charlie live? Who
(03:55):
is Uncle Charlie? So, depending on your life and who
you are, Uncle Charlie could be very obvious. You could
actually have a rich uncle Charlie. You could have an
uncle his name is Charlie and he could be super rich.
And maybe that's where you're going to get the money
from your rich uncle Charlie, all right, or somebody like that,
(04:17):
some very very rich relative or friend who knows you
really well and trusts you and is willing to take
a chance with you. So in that case, you're lucky
because you have what we call a network which to
tap into. So maybe you know you've got, you know,
a friend who is a very rich financial investment banker
(04:40):
or real estate mogul, and they have other friends, or
you run in those circles. You know, maybe you are
a member of a posh golf club where you have
lots of high net worth individual Uncle Charlie's around you,
who have the ability, who have extra cash available, who
can take a chance on an entrepreneurial venture like a film.
(05:02):
If you have that network around you, you're lucky. Those
are the people you're gonna want to go to. Those
people and their friends and associates, all right. So some
people have that. Some people are either born into it
or have figured out how to get into those circles,
all right. So these are circles of rich people of
Uncle Charlie's. If you don't have that, if you aren't
(05:25):
surrounded by Uncle Charlie's rich people, then you're going to
have to go find them, and you're gonna have to
go and kind of get into their circles and their world.
That is not easy. That is very, very, very difficult.
Probably the most challenging thing is getting into the network
(05:47):
of Uncle Charlie because generally speaking, Uncle Charlie doesn't want
you in his network. He's got enough people in his
network and he doesn't need somebody else muddling around in
his network with his high net worth ind visual friends.
So who are these high net worth individuals, these Uncle Charlie's.
If you don't have them. You're not in your world.
(06:08):
They are people like real estate people, investment banker people, lawyers, doctors, professionals,
other people who generally have you know, a lot of
net worth. But you don't know them. But you're going
to get to know them. Now, how do you do that.
(06:29):
You don't go up to them in the parking lot
of a Bloomingdale's waiting outside. You don't accost them. You
don't wait outside their driveways as they're getting into their
porsches and driving away. That doesn't work, all right. You
definitely don't stalk anybody. What you got to do is
you got to figure out how to get yourself into
(06:51):
their circles. Now, what are their circles? There are many, many,
many circles. You just have to get creative, and you
have to do it politely and professionally. So I'll give
you an example of a circle. I said it before.
A posh golf club. All right. Lots of rich people
(07:11):
are members of country clubs, golf and country clubs or
tennis clubs or something like that. All right, that's what
rich people like to spend their money on. A lot
of people just join a high end club and they're there,
so you can't afford to join that club. How are
you going to get in? As crazy as this sounds,
and you're not gonna love it, but maybe it's what
(07:34):
you're gonna have to do. Maybe you're gonna have to
take a job working at that club. So let's talk
about a golf club, all right. Maybe you're gonna have
to take a part time job working on the weekends
or the evenings or something in the dining room or
maybe in the golf club backroom or the pro shop
or something like that. And you know, part of that
(07:54):
job is you're going to make some money, but the
other major reason you're going to do that is so
that you can start to meet people at that income level.
And it's not gonna happen overnight. All right, You're gonna
have to work there for six months to a year.
They're gonna have to get to know you. You're gonna
have to be friendly, you're gonna have to be very professional.
(08:18):
But then you're gonna get to know them and at
the right time, at the right moment, if the right
moment appears. But you're going to create the right moment,
which we'll talk about in a few minutes what the
right moment is. Then you are going to say, hey,
I'm a filmmaker and I'm working on this film and
I'd like to pitch you and show you kind of
(08:38):
what it's all about. And you're going to show them
a super professional investor pitch package, which we're going to
talk about in the next episode. I'm going to go
through all of the detailed elements on how to create
an investor pitch deck that's super compelling and will be
interesting to potential investors. But right now, we're talking about networking.
(09:00):
Right now, you say, but I don't want to spend
a year, you know, working in a country club cleaning
people's golf clubs, And I say, okay, then go work
in a high end restaurant, maybe be the maitre d
or a waiter or something like that. But the golf club,
you're going to meet people better and you're going to
get to know them better because they're going to be
(09:21):
more familiar with you. So you got to do something.
You can't just sit there and assume that they're going
to find you, because they're not. And this is super
aggravating and can be super frustrating for indie filmmakers because
they just weren't born into a circle of high net
worth individuals. I get it, I totally get it. But
(09:42):
if you aren't, you got to come up with a
strategy to get in there. And I'm telling you that's
a strategy that I've seen work before if you can
get a job there. And again, that's just one of many,
all right, there's other places where Uncle Charlie go, and
you got to go where I'm Charlie's are because you've
got to get in front of them and you got
(10:02):
to meet them, all right, And that's the way to
do it. So if and when you have the opportunity,
they get to know you over the course of six
months or a year. Like I say, and here's the
reason that they're going to potentially listen to your pitch
and potentially invest with you. It is because they like you,
(10:24):
all right. Remember, they don't know anything about your project.
They probably don't even know that you're an aspiring filmmaker.
They just know that you are a nice person, all right.
So I'm gonna go with a guy as opposed to
a girl, because I'm a guy, all right. They're gonna say, Wow,
he's a nice guy. He's polite, he's professional, he takes
good care of me, and there's a relationship there. Now
(10:48):
you're the worker, they're the guest. There's a professional distance
you have to keep. But every once in a while
you find the right person who is willing to believe
in you actually take a chance. Now, I'm going to
tell you what rich people are looking for when they
want to take a chance in an entrepreneurial venture. All right.
(11:10):
As an investor, rich people they want two things. One,
they want return on investment, meaning they want to make
their money back with a profit. That's called return on investment,
all right. They want their money back, and they want
to make a profit in addition to that. That's number one.
That's why they're rich. Not necessarily they could have inherited
(11:32):
it or whatever, but but they don't like to part
with their money. These aren't donations you're looking for. Remember
we'll talk about donations soon. But what we're looking for
is investors. Investors like to get return on investment. Number two,
they want to deal with people who they trust, like
and trust. All right. If they don't like you, and
(11:54):
they don't trust you, it doesn't matter how potentially good
your investment. Is going to be. They're not going to
invest with you rich people. When it comes to entrepreneurial
investments like low budget indie films like this kind of thing,
they are investing in the filmmaker, not the film. You've
got to understand that. Or in other words, what people
(12:17):
say is they're betting on the jockey, not the horse. Right,
they are not betting on the film. They're betting on
the filmmaker. They're going to invest with you because they
like and trust you. They don't know anything about filmmaking.
They don't know anything about the indie film business, they
don't know how films get made. They're not going to
(12:40):
even read your script because they don't really care about
the movie. As long as it's not something that they're
going to be embarrassed about, like you know, they're probably
not going to invest in porn or maybe super violent
thrasher horror or I don't know, something that's racist obviously, Okay,
if it's normal everyday entertainment that they think is cool,
(13:01):
you just have to tell them a little bit about
the movie. But what you've got to convince them is
is that you are a super professional, trustworthy person who
is going to take care of their money and give
it your best shot. They know that it's a high risk,
they know there's a big chance of losing, and you're
going to tell them that, all right. That's one of
the things that's going to make you credible is you're
(13:23):
going to actually tell them the truth about how high
risk it is. If they like you and they trust
you and believe that you are going to give it
your best shot, then you have a chance to get
money from them, all right, and make your film and
make it enjoyable for them. So again, we're going I'm
gonna explain how to do a pitch package properly and
(13:43):
how get them to focus on the right things in
a very short period of time because they are very
busy people or they're also add attention deficit disorder, they
have very short attention spans. So we're going to talk
about how to pitch them properly. But the thing that
you have to understand is you're not pitching a film.
You're pitching yourself. They're investing in you, the filmmaker, not
(14:09):
the film. That is the case with most entrepreneurial new startups.
They invest with the entrepreneur. They believe that the entrepreneur,
has vision, has persistence, has talent, has skills, and they
want to take a shot because they generally don't know
the business all right. They know their own businesses doctors,
(14:30):
no medicine, real estate people know real estate, investment bankers
no money, they don't know filmmaking. They assume that you
know filmmaking, and they assume that you're going to be
good at it, and you are, hopefully all right, but
they need to trust you. They need to see that
you're credible, that you're honest, that you're straightforward, you're hard working,
(14:51):
You're going to give it your best shot. That is
what you're selling to them. That's what Uncle Charlie wants
to invest in, all right. So over the course of
that six months to a year, when you are potentially
working at that golf club, and again that's just one example,
you're gonna be super polite, you're gonna be nice, you're
gonna be friendly, you're gonna be honest, you're gonna be real.
(15:13):
You've got to make them feel good about you. That
is the mission. You are not trying to pull the
wool over anybody's eyes. You are trying to have develop
a relationship with somebody who is willing to say, hey,
this is a good person. Unfortunately they weren't born into
Uncle Charlie's circles. But that doesn't mean they can't give
it a shot and do the rags to riches story
(15:35):
and be super successful. They're willing to try. They're willing
to try if you are the right chemistry for them,
the right personality, the right fit, and they trust you.
That's what it's all about, all right. So trust and
credibility is what you're trying to create with Uncle Charlie.
When you have trust and credibility, then Uncle Charlie will
(15:56):
let you pitch to him. He will not only let
you pitch to him, He'll put you in front of
his friends. He'll give you the ability. He'll open the
door to let you pitch your project, which is your
indie film, to people who have the ability to give
you the money. That's the secret. Now, how you do
the pitch is super important, and we're going to talk
(16:17):
about that in the next episode. I Am going to
go element by element and teach you how to build
a proper pitch and teach you how to pitch it properly.
All right, As I say to my students. There's the story,
So the story is the pitch deck, and then there
is the telling of the story, which is basically how
you pitch the pitch deck. It's kind of like me
talking to you right now. All right, there's the material
(16:40):
that I'm talking about, and then there's how I'm delivering
the material. Am I using my hands? Am I using
my voice a certain way? Am I passionate? What's the
speed at which I'm talking? You know? Am I paying
attention to who I'm pitching to? This is about pitching properly,
So we'll talk about that in the next episode. But
right now we're talking about how to get in the
room with Uncle Charlie. So that's how you get in
(17:02):
the room now. Also, Uncle Charlie might be one person,
and you might need more than one, meaning you have
to ask Uncle Charlie very politely to put you in
with his friends and other people other uncle Charlie's and
Uncle Charlie will do that. If he likes you, he
will connect you or he'll put you in front of
other people. That is called networking. So networking is once
(17:24):
you get into the network, you work it. Do not
be obnoxious, Do not be that person at the cocktail party.
Who is too big, too obnoxious? Now, you do need
to be friendly. Sometimes it's going to take you out
of your comfort zone. Sometimes you're gonna have to do
things that you normally wouldn't do, like approach somebody and
(17:45):
have a nice conversation with them that you'd normally maybe
be too shy to do. The trick is just always
be professional and classy and honest, all right, be real
And if you can't be, then get a wingman. Get
somebody who can help you. Get a nice girl that
they're gonna want to talk to. That'll be your wing Matt,
(18:05):
all right. Get somebody who maybe work as a team
and be a good team together. Because remember, as I
told you, uncle Charlie wants to like you. He wants
to like you and your associates whatever, and trust you.
So make sure that the chemistry is right. Now. That
is where most of the money is going to come
(18:25):
from for your indie films. There are either places, all right.
There's family and friends. So remember I said, uncle Charlie
is somebody who're not related to It's not your family
and friends. I mean it could be it could be
your uncle Charlie, right, But Generally these are third party
people who are investors who potentially have the money and
are willing to take a chance with you. But they
(18:47):
also could be your family and friends. All right. Here
is the secret with family and friends, and with everybody,
by the way, even non family and friends. Never ever
ever take money from people who can't afford to lose it,
especially family and friends. Never take their money. I know
(19:07):
you really want to make a film, and I know
that they want you to make a film. They want
you to live your dream, especially say your parents. Okay,
your parents, and your sisters and your brothers, Okay, they
love you. They want to support you. They know you
have this dream of wanting to make this movie, and
you've had it for a decade or two decades, your
whole life. So they just want to see you live
(19:29):
your dream. They love you so much, they're willing to
give you a lot of money to do it. Don't
take their money unless they can afford to lose it.
The last thing you want to do is take your
parents retirement money, make a film and not be able
to pay them back. And I'll tell you why. And
this is from experience. I am telling you this. Okay,
(19:50):
it is way more difficult, challenging and trying on you
to lose somebody else's money than it is to lose
your own. When you lose somebody else's money who you
care about, and that it matters to that their money
matters to them, you can never forget that. You will
always know that you robbed your parents of their retirement.
(20:13):
You'll never sleep at night. You'll feel terrible, all right,
if you were to lose your own money, then you're
gonna feel bad. But you don't have anybody else's answer
to or worry about. It's just yourself. Yeah, you're gonna
feel terrible, but you'll make it up. You'll figure it
out in your life. When you lose your parents or
your brothers, or your sisters, or your uncle's money and
they couldn't afford to lose it, and now all of
(20:34):
a sudden their life is changed and they can't retire
properly or whatever, you're god gonna sleep at night. Not
only that, the relationship will never be the same. So
I am telling you don't take money from people unless
they can afford to lose it, meaning that if they
lose the money, all of the money, it will not
have any effect on their lifestyle. Right, That's what I'm
(20:57):
talking about. When I say they can afford to lose it,
it means that if they lose the money, nothing changes
in their life. This is disposable income that's not going
to affect how they live. So do not take money
from people, private investors money unless they can afford to
lose it. Now, rich uncle Charlie generally can afford to
lose it, all right, And rich Uncle Charlie is smart
(21:18):
enough to only give you an amount that he can
afford to lose, because rich Uncle Charlie isn't sort of
related to you. He's a third party person. But your
parents and your friends and your close associates, they'll do
it out of love. Those will be more donations than
they will be investments. They're going to give it to
you because they love you. Yes, would they like it back,
(21:38):
of course they would. Would they like a return on
their investment, Yes, of course they would. But they're going
to do it out of love. Because that's why I
say it's more of a donation. They want to help
you out, They want you to live your dream. So
I'm saying, be very very cognizant of that. You can
take money from them, but only at the level that
they're comfortable and that it's not going to change their lifestyle.
(21:58):
I'm not saying you shouldn't do it. Okay, Now here's
a couple of other tips. First of all, are there
other ways to get money? Yeah, people talk about crowdfunding.
We're going to do an episode on crowdfunding. Crowdfunding is
what I would say, is more development money. It's money
that you're going to use to develop your project at
the beginning. Because remember we're talking about seven hundred thousand
(22:18):
dollars budgets. Here a good, really good crowdfunding campaign, If
it's really, really good, you're gonna get fifty thousand. Right,
that's a really good one. Now, have people raised seven hundred, Yes,
the odd person. Have people want a lottery, yes, the
odd person. You don't make a business plan being the
odd person. You don't make it being you know, based
on the anomaly. You do it based on the reality.
(22:41):
All right, So crowdfunding is just not going to raise
enough money to actually do the production of a feature film.
It might be for development, it might be for marketing,
it might be finishing funds, it might be some other stuff,
but it's not the production of a seven hundred thousand
dollar feature film. So in any case, I will do
a crowdfunding episode, but don't think that that's going to
(23:01):
be your primary source of financing. It isn't tax credits. Okay.
People say, well, tax credits, that's twenty five percent of
my budget, and I say, yes, it is, but it's
not your financing because a tax credit comes sometimes two
years after you make your movie, and you need financing
to make the movie. So tax credits are going to
(23:24):
be revenue that come back to you. And I'm going
to do a whole episode on tax credits and other
financial incentives, and I'm can explain to you how that works,
how the timing works. So tax credits, do not consider
them a form of financing. They're a form of revenue
to recoup your investment afterwards. Because they come after the fact,
(23:47):
like a year or two afterwards, you can't use that
money to make your film. Now. People say, oh, but
I will lend against the tax credit, and I say,
maybe you will, but chances you won't on a slow
budget indie film. And when I do the tax credit seminar,
I'll explain to you why it's way too expensive. And
not viable to finance a tax credit at that level.
(24:10):
The cost of financing the legals, all this kind of
stuff are almost prohibitive when you're doing a seven hundred
thousand dollars film. So I will go into detail in
another episode when we talk about tax credits and why
you shouldn't consider that as a source of financing upfront.
So financing is coming from Uncle Charlie and networking with
Uncle Charlie. That's the secret, all right, And I explain
(24:33):
that some people are born into the Uncle Charlie world
and some aren't, and some have to try much harder
to get into that world. So networking is everything, and
it's not easy. Now here's the other thing, all right.
This is what I said before. Investments are about trust,
they're about honesty, they're about credibility. Credibility is the key thing.
(24:56):
So let me explain why people believe other pe people
are credible. Here's the short list. Okay. Number one, you
got to be able to do what you say you
can do. If you say that you are able to
make a movie, you better darn well be able to
make it. So sometimes people say, oh, I'm going to
(25:16):
make a movie, and they've actually never made a movie before,
and then they take the money and they have good intentions.
Their intentions are honorable and very good, but they don't
have any experience and they actually don't have the proper
skill set. And in some ways, that's a lie that
you said you know what you're doing, So just make
sure you know what you're doing, or make sure you
surround yourself with people who know what they're doing, because
(25:39):
when Uncle Charlie gives you that money, he's going to
expect that you actually know what you're doing. That's on
the making of the movie. He's also going to expect
that once you make the movie, you know how to
get it properly distributed, because that's part of the process,
all right, making the movie. You're only halfway there, maybe
(26:00):
in less than halfway. Selling the movie is where Uncle
Charlie's getting his money back, So he needs to know
and feel comfortable that you actually know how to navigate
that process. Now chances are you don't, so you're gonna
need to figure it out. And that's why you're gonna
have to listen to all of my episodes because I'm
gonna get to that. We're gonna do tons of episodes
(26:21):
on dealing with how to get things distributed so that
when you tell Uncle Charlie you know what you're talking about,
then hopefully you do know what you're talking about. Okay.
That's the biggest part of credibility is the skill set
to be able to deliver what you told Uncle Charlie
you were able to do. Here's the other thing that
people struggle with, and honestly, I'm telling this. I tell
(26:43):
my kids this, I tell my students. This is the
one sort of mantra that I live by, hopefully, is
just be honest. Honesty is so important, all right. Honesty
is the foundation of all trust and all credibility. If
you don't know what you're doing, just be honest and
(27:03):
say you don't, but you're gonna learn it, all right.
If something goes wrong, tell people went wrong, but you're
going to fix it. Just tell the truth. It's so
much easier to tell the truth and be honest and
not get caught up in lies and tangled in webs
of deceit than it is to just be upfront and honest.
If you're not honest, you're not going to be credible.
(27:25):
People are going to read through it. So there are
going to be things that you're going to struggle with,
and just tell them that. Say, there's a couple of
things that I still have to learn, there's a couple
people I have to f filly myself. I'm gonna put
a great team together because there's a few things that
I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm going to
surround myself with people who do. It's credible to say that,
(27:47):
it's honest to say that. It's professional to say that.
All right, to say you can't know everything. But if
you are honest about it and you say, here's what
I'm really good at, and now I'm surrounding myself with
other people who are better at these things, and we're
going to be a great team. That's how that's going
to work. Uncle Charlie is going to respect that, and
(28:10):
he's going to believe that you're credible because you told
the truth to him, and that's what he really wants
to see. So is networking easy. No, it's crazy difficult.
But you can do this. You can do it. You
just have to step back, be a good, honest, straightforward person,
try your best, be very persistent, be patient, be friendly,
(28:33):
be professional, and it will come. It will come. If
you're lucky, it'll come quickly. If you're not, it might
take a little bit of time, but you will get there.
Good luck,
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.