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April 30, 2025 28 mins
Indie Filmmaking with Jeff Deverett

In this episode, Jeff Deverett breaks down the essentials of pitching your movie to an investor—affectionately referred to as “Uncle Charlie.” Jeff emphasizes that when you’re in the room with a potential backer, you’ve got about 30 minutes to make your case—and it’s not just about the story.

He makes a key point: Uncle Charlie doesn’t actually care about your movie. What he does care about is the money—the numbers, the return on investment, and the financial logic behind your project. Jeff walks you through how to shift your pitch from passion to profit, showing that if you want funding, you need to sell the business, not just the art.
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Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Okay, welcome back today. We are going to be looking
at an actual investor pitch deck. We talked about networking
with rich uncle Charlie. That's where you're going to get
your money. But the question is when you get in
that room, what are you going to say to him?
How are you going to pitch him? How are you
going to entice him and excite him enough to want

(00:22):
to invest in your movie. This is the document that's
going to get you over the finish line. If you
want to be a successful indie filmmaker, you need to
know a lot about not just the production of movies,
but the business. We are going to tell you the
truth and reality of what really happens in the indie
film business. All right, So you're going to get in

(00:49):
the room with Uncle Charlie and he's going to give
you a half an hour to pitch him. Now here's
how a half an hour investor pitch meeting works. This
is the reality. I've been in these meetings many, many times.
The first five minutes, Uncle Charlie's going to be late,
or he's gonna be on his phone. He's going to
walk in, he's gonna sit down, but he's going to
be on a phone call, So the first five minutes

(01:10):
are blown, all right. He can't interrupt him. He's a
busy guy. He needs to take his call. And is
it rude, Yeah, it's very rude, but he's going to
do it, all right. So now you're down to twenty
five minutes. Then he's going to hang up. There's going
to be two to three minutes of pleasantries. Don't take
more than two to three minutes for the pleasantries. How
are you heard about you? You're a nice guy. What's

(01:32):
your family like this that, how's your dog? Whatever? Okay,
don't make it a whole conversation just because Uncle Charlie's
being friendly. You got to respect the fact that he
has a hard stop at whatever it is, three o'clock.
And even though he's being friendly and feels like he's
going to give you more time, he's not at three o'clock.
He needs to leave. If he wants to spend more time, sure,

(01:52):
keep the time, okay, but assume there's a hard stop.
So take two to three minutes, do the pleasantries, be
very friendly, be polite, and then get into it. So
now you've got basically about twenty two minutes working backwards
you're going to need two to three minutes for closing
pleasantries and maybe two to three minutes for questions and answers.

(02:14):
All right, so you're gonna have to give yourself at
least five minutes of grace time. So you had twenty
three minutes. So now you are down to eighteen minutes.
You've got to do this pitch in eighteen minutes. You
can do this now, I am telling you, and listen
to me. Look at me and listen to me. Don't
take more than eighteen minutes. You don't need to. Part

(02:34):
of what Uncle Charlie is gauging is not what you're saying.
He's gauging how professional you're saying it. Remember I said,
there's the story, So the story is the deck, all right,
It's the material in the deck. And then there's how
you tell the story. There's the delivery of the story,
the storytelling. Uncle Charlie, he wants to be entertained, he

(02:56):
wants to be informed, but he wants you to be
super professional because he's investing in you, not your material.
So he's only sort of listening to your material. This
is an interview. Yes, you're pitching him on a movie.
But he's interviewing you. He's gauging who is this person?
Are they professional? How are they delivering it? Do they

(03:16):
talk at the right pace? Do they rush? Do they go?
Do they read the room? As he's looking at me,
as he not think of this as an interview of
you being interviewed for a job, even though you're pitching
Uncle Charlie on a movie. But that's how this works,
all right, That's how these people think, that's how it works.
So I am going to go through the elements. I'm

(03:39):
not going to go through them at the speed at
which you would have to. You can have to go
through them a little bit quicker. I mean, maybe at
some point in the podcast, I will bring an Uncle
Charlie to the show like a rich person, and I
will pitch them on a new movie, and you can
watch exactly how that's done. I'm not going to do
it in this episode. I'm actually just going to tell
you the elements of what needs to be said to

(04:01):
Uncle Charlie. But I think it would be fun to
actually do that. So let's look at what an actual
pitch deck is. All right. It's going to be very succinct,
and I know everybody's gonna argue with me, Oh, you
got to do this, you got to do this. The
difference is that I have done this. I have done
these pitches too. I'm going to say, well over one
hundred investors through various films in order to get one,

(04:23):
Uncle Charlie. Usually a ten to one ratio. You got
to pitch ten people to get one. If you get lucky,
sometimes you know it's one to five. So you're pitching
a lot of people, and you've got to be good
at it. You got to be able to close. And
it's not that you're doing a bad pitch, it's just
that's the statistics. Okay, So let's look at a deck
and see what's in it. Generally, a deck is going

(04:44):
to be a PowerPoint presentation. The slides are going to
be well organized, very neat, very easy to look at,
not a lot of type on them, not a lot
of graphics, because you're going quickly, all right, So you
don't want the people to have to read too much
or focus too much. The only reason you have the
deck is so that you can lead them through the

(05:04):
information you want to give and then be able to
leave them with something afterwards, so that they can remind
themselves of what you spoke about. So you want to
keep it really simple and to the point. Now you're
going to talk about more than what your deck says,
and you're not gonna read your deck. Your deck is
just a reminder, a bullet point reminder as to the
things you're talking about. So here's the slides. Slide one

(05:28):
is the title of the movie, all right, and it
says movie ABC by Jeff Deverett. And on that slide
is going to be the title treatment. Now, I know
you haven't made the movie yet, but come up with
just sort of a draft title treatment and draft artwork.
So you're gonna need a piece of artwork like poster
art and image that you can put on the front

(05:51):
page of that presentation. Uncle Charlie needs to see the poster.
It's not the final poster. It's just a concept poster.
They need to see something. And the poster is so
important to keep it very, very simple and succinct so
that it tells sort of the message of the movie
in one glance. Now we're gonna do an entire show

(06:14):
just on poster artwork and trailers because it's so important,
by far, the most important marketing element is the poster,
and then secondly the trailer. All right, so it's super important.
So I'm not gonna go into tons of detail there,
but you will need a good compelling poster. That's on
the first slide. Okay, the second slide is going to
be about the movie. The first thing you're gonna have

(06:36):
on that slide is the title, and then there's going
to be a log line. Now, a log line is
one sentence that describes the core of the movie one sentence.
It's not two sentences, it's not three sentences. It's one sentence.
So many people get this wrong. If you can't say

(06:57):
what your movie is in one sentence, then I'm going
to tell you something. You actually don't know what your
movie's about. You really don't right now. Is there a
million things going on in your movie? Yes? Are there
a million characters? Yes? Are there a million subplots? Yes,
there's tons of stuff. I get it. But there's one
core thought, one core message, one core storyline. That's what

(07:17):
your log line has to say. Simple, one tiny, single
message sentence. That's your log line. That's gonna be in
bigger font below that you can put a two to
three sentence synopsis in, but you're not gonna read it
in the meeting. You're just gonna read your log line,
because your log line will say what your movie's all about.

(07:39):
This synopsis will be for later to remind Uncle Charlie
some of the more details, but not a ton. Uncle
Charlie doesn't need to know the whole movie. Just needs
to kind of get a sense of what it's about
just a little bit, all right. And you want the
core element, the core storyline. You don't need all the
other little stuff. It doesn't matter. You think it matters.

(08:02):
It matters to you because you're the storyteller, you're the director,
you're the writer, whatever. It doesn't matter to them. The
core element matters to them, all right. So you'll have
a second you'll have a synopsis, extremely brief, two to
three sentences, all right. Then the next thing is if
there is an overlying theme or message, especially in a documentary,

(08:24):
all right, But you know sometimes certain inspirational movies or
something have that if you're trying to share a message
with the world that Uncle Charlie could resonate with and
just feel warm and fuzzy about. On the next slide,
you can say what the message is, so you can
say the theme of the movie is this, we are
trying to share with the world that people should do

(08:45):
good things, not bad things. Simple again, one sentence, no
more than once. If you can't say the theme of
the movie in one sentence, you don't know the theme.
Log Lines and theme lines are super important to keep
them succinct. People can say super uber focused and saying, Okay,
now I know what it's about. Yes, there's lots of

(09:06):
other stuff going on. I've said it five times. There's
lots of other stuff going on. It doesn't matter. What
matters is this. This is where we need to keep
Uncle Charlie's focus not here. The next slide is what
we call comps or comparables. All right, So now you're
gonna put up a couple of popular movies, usually Hollywood

(09:27):
ask bigger movies that Uncle Charlie hopefully has seen over
the past. So you're gonna put the posters, the poster
artwork of those movies onto this slide, and you're gonna say,
my movie is kind of similar to these movies. Now
you're not gonna write out why it's similar. You're just
gonna put the poster art of each of those say

(09:47):
five or six movies, and you're gonna explain it's similar
to this movie because of this, or it's similar to
the genre because of this, and you're going to use
a game movies that are much bigger than your movie
is like going to be. Remember, you're making a small,
low budget indie film and you're going to compare it
to bigger movies. Why because Uncle Charlie hopefully has seen

(10:09):
those other movies and knows what they're about. And chances
are he's not seen a lot of indie films. So
you can't use smaller, lower budget indie films as your comparables,
your comps. You have to use bigger films that Uncle
Charlie sort of remembers and says, oh, now I understand.
So your movie's going to sort of be like that movie.
It's sort of a cross between the story of this,

(10:31):
the theme of that, the setting of this, that type of thing.
This is what gets Uncle Charlie's mind to understand sort
of the picture of what you're trying to make as
the movie. Now, that's it for the movie. Remember I said,
Uncle Charlie really isn't investing in the movie. He's investing
in the movie maker the filmmaker. That's it. That's all

(10:54):
you're gonna tell him. You are not telling Uncle Charlie
about all the plot lines. You're not telling him about
the characters, not about the character arcs, about the actors,
about anything. You're not telling him any of that stuff.
If he asks you at the end in the Q
and A, you can tell him, but you're not gonna

(11:14):
waste time on that, because guess what, he doesn't care.
He actually doesn't care about the movie you're making. He
understands it now. He sees the message, he sees the logline,
he sees the story. That's all he needs to know.
That's all he cares about. Okay, the rest of it
is important for storytelling, but don't waste any time on

(11:35):
who the characters are and what their motivations are, and
what the plot points are and all the you're excited
about it, he's not. Please understand that super important. If
he's excited later on, have another coffee with him and
go into all those details. That's when you do that,
But don't waste time in the meeting. The next slide
is what we're gonna call the production schedule and budget.

(11:59):
All right, this is going to summarize in bullet point,
and everything is bullet point when you're actually going to
make the movie, like sort of when you're going into
pre production, when you're going to shoot it, maybe where
you're going to shoot it just out of curiosity, like
which state or which city, Okay, but not details of
the location like the sets or anything like that. And

(12:21):
how much you plan on spending on the movie. What
is your overall budget? No details of the budget. This
is the overall spend now if you want to really
get Uncle Charlie excited. Depending on what industry Uncle Charlie
comes from, your budget is going to include two components.

(12:41):
So you're going to say, Uncle Charlie, my budget is
eight hundred thousand dollars and I'm obviously making this up.
This is just an example, okay, of which seven hundred
thousand is going to be for the production of the movie,
the making of the movie, and the other one hundred
thousand dollars is going to be for marketing the movie
after it's made. Uncle Charlie says, oh, you're including marketing.

(13:04):
You're gonna say, yeah, because when we make a great movie,
we're gonna need money to market it. And I'm raising
all of the money at once because this is a
package and it's important for the success of the movie
that we have the production funds and the marketing funds
all in place in order to do this properly. Uncle
Charlie's gonna go hmm. This guy really knows what he's doing.

(13:26):
Super important. And by the way, just a little tip.
When you get the money, don't spend your marketing dollars
on production. That's a no no, never do that. You
keep that marketing funds, you keep it tucked away for marketing.
But you show Uncle Charlie that you've already pre thought marketing,
which we're gonna get into a little bit more in
a second. And you're raising the money at this point,

(13:46):
not just the production. The next slide is what I
call the credibility slide. It's going to be about you,
the filmmaker. You're gonna put your picture on that slide.
Maybe the picture of one other person, maybe you know,
if you're the director, maybe the cinematographer or your producer
or whatever, all right, but chances are just you, and
you're gonna put your little mini point form bio up

(14:10):
there as what makes you credible as a filmmaker. Why
Uncle Charlie should trust you and what you have done
and who you are. Now, if you don't have an
exciting bio, which some of you won't because you haven't
done anything yet in the film business, all right, this
is your first time, then maybe you want to put

(14:30):
your bio up, make it really short, and put the
photo up and hire somebody like a co producer or
a co cinematographer or director, or somebody who has a
more credible bio than you do. Because remember, Uncle Charlie
is investing in the jockey, not the horse. He's investing
in the filmmaker, not the film or the filmmaking team.

(14:53):
This is where you got to sell Uncle Charlie. He's
got to believe that your team knows what they are doing.
Not put five people up there. Uncle Charlie can't focus
on five people. He can only focus on one or two.
If you're credible, put you up there. If you need
a little bit more credibility, choose the other most credible
person on your team and put them up and explain

(15:16):
that between the two of you you've got enough to
pull this off and make it really good. That's the
credibility side. About the filmmaker. The next few slides are
going to be the distribution of the movie, the distribution strategy.
That's correct, you're going to talk about the distribution strategy
to Uncle Charlie. You've already told them what movie you're making.
You already told him that you're good enough to make

(15:37):
the movie. Now you're going to tell them how you're
going to sell the movie when it's finished. There are
going to be three or four distribution slides here. The
first one is going to be the overview of what
the distribution plan is. You're going to maybe show how
you're going to get a distributor, or which distributors you're
looking at. So you might show some of the logos
of distributors who you think are going to be interested,

(15:59):
who you're talking to. Maybe you're going to suggest a
couple of streaming platforms that niche ones or even bigger ones.
Maybe there is a Netflix logo or a Disney Plus logo,
and you say, this is our ultimate target. This is
who we're going after for distribution. This is how we're
going to get the movie to audiences. Here's an overview
of the plan. Again, short, short, short bullet point points

(16:23):
about distribution. And this is going to come directly from
that distribution and marketing plan that I told you to
make in episode two we talked about in the concept phase.
Think about who your target audience is and how you're
going to get them. This distribution strategy you're going to
put in your deck is basically a summary of that.

(16:43):
So this is distribution plan Slide number one, Distribution plan
slide number two. Now, depending on what your distribution plan is,
as I said, you're going to need three or four
slides for that. See in the deck that I'm looking at,
and I'm looking at one of my decks right now.
The first slide talks about third party just distributors, so
who I'm going to use basically as a distributor to

(17:03):
help me get onto streaming platforms. The second slide is
self distribution. It's in addition to doing third party distribution,
I am going to do some self distribution to certain
core audiences. Like we talked about specifically focused on certain audiences.
So remember I gave the example of my gymnastics movie
full out. This would be the plan as to how

(17:25):
to target those gymnastics coaches to tell their students the
gymnasts where to go to stream the movie on transactional
video on demand, which would be different than getting the
movie onto Netflix. The first slide would be, we're going
to get a distributor. They're going to hopefully get it
onto Netflix. The second slide in this plan would be,

(17:46):
in addition to that, we're going to target our very
core niche audience with a self distribution marketing plan to
really really focus on that audience. And here's how we're
going to do it, to the point where you're actually
going to put numbers in. You're going to put some
forecasts and projections. You're gonna say, we believe the audience
is this big, we believe we can target five percent

(18:07):
of it. We believe that two percent of it will
actually transact with the movie, and they'll rent the movie
for five dollars whatever. And here's what that's gonna look like.
Here's the revenue from that distribution. Again, super super simple,
bullet point, super sustinct. But now Uncle Charlie is starting
to think, Okay, these guys have a plan to sell

(18:27):
this movie. This is a sales plan, Like these aren't
just people are gonna make a movie. They're throwing me
for a loop. Here they're talking about how they're gonna
sell the movie. That's unbelievable. Now in this deck that
I'm looking at, this movie that the deck is about
happens to have also a faith based component to it,
meaning that in addition to the secular streaming, say the

(18:49):
Netflix and the self distribution plan, in addition, we're gonna
go after the faith based crowd. Who's the faith based market?
How big is it? Does Uncle Charlie even know that
there's a faith based market out there? Did you even
know that? Maybe you don't, but maybe there is another
niche core audience out there that you can tap into.
In this case, there is. So there's another slide explaining

(19:12):
that we're going after this faith based cloud. We're going
to go after these streaming platforms. Here's what the numbers
look like. Here's what that's going to look like. All
of a sudden, this fifty million viewers just doubled to
one hundred million. I mean I made those numbers up.
That's big, all right, But all of a sudden, your
audience is much bigger because now you're thinking at another

(19:33):
level another strategy. Three slides just on the distribution strategy.
That's how to get the movie out there. Now we're
getting into marketing. The marketing campaign that one hundred thousand
dollars that we told Uncle Charlie that we're going to
be raising, how are we going to spend it. We're
going to do a paid social media marketing campaign. We're

(19:53):
going to pay fifty thousand dollars to influencers. Here's one
or two of the influencers that we're thinking about that
might be able to attract a huge audience. Plus, here's
the paid marketing campaign that we're going to do. And
we believe that that will work and attract audiences. And
here's the numbers. What we believe. This is Uncle Charlie's

(20:15):
sweet spot. Uncle Charlie loves numbers. Uncle Charlie loves the
idea that he's not listening to the storyline in the
plotline of the movie. He's listening to the marketing plan
of how you are going to hit the audience and
hopefully make a ton of money for him. This is
what Uncle Charlie's excited about. This is what really gets
him going. The marketing campaign all right, and the potential

(20:38):
audience size. Now all of that. The next slide is
what we call the revenue and profit forecast. So all
of this distribution and marketing is going to lead to
an audience of this size, and here's how much we
estimate they're going to spend, and here's what the revenue
of the movie is going to be based on that

(21:00):
distribution and marketing plan. Now do you know this for real? No,
it's an estimate. It's a guess. You do your best
to guess. Now, if you've done a good distribution of
marketing plan, it's a better guess than if you hadn't.
If you've spoken to people who do this for a living,
it's a better guess. So make the guests as good
as possible. But you call it an estimate or a forecast.

(21:22):
Uncle Charlie knows it's a forecast. He's been in business
long enough. You're not guaranteeing this. It is an educated guess,
a forecast. That's what a forecast is, all right, But
Uncle Charlie wants to see numbers. You're just gonna show
one level. You're gonna show the medium level. You're gonna say,
here's what we believe. This sort of conservative medium level
of revenue is going to be tucked away to the side.

(21:44):
You're gonna have a spreadsheet that shows five levels. The
worst case scenario medium, worse, medium, the one you're gonna
show in your deck medium, high, really high. All right,
Uncle Charlie, if he asks you, you better be prepared
to be able to say, oh, this is the conservative level.
You want to see the high level here it is.
You want to see the worst case scenario here it is.

(22:06):
So you have the numbers. You need to be rock
solid on the numbers. You actually don't need to be
rock solid on the story, because Uncle Charlie doesn't care
as much about that. The numbers he cares about. Remember,
this is an investment. An investment is about numbers. So
now you're going to say, here's our estimated revenue at
a conservative level. Here's the budget that we said we're

(22:29):
going to spend. The eight hundred thousand. The revenue minus
the budget is the profit. Here's the estimated profit. The
next slide we throw in just to get Uncle Charlie
excited because it's the movie business. I call it the
Hollywood dream slide. Because Uncle Charlie wants to know. He
wants to know about the Blair Witch Project. He wants
to know about that anomaly film that hit this home

(22:49):
run that nobody expected. This is why the movie business
is exciting, because it can happen. So we throw in
that one exciting Hollywood dream slide, and we say, Uncle Charlie,
if we get super lucky, if the thing goes viral,
if we hit a home run, if we get that
grand slam that everybody wants to get, here's what it

(23:10):
could look like. Here is that fifty million, one hundred
million dollar revenue scenario. We don't expect it. It's not
our business plan, but it could happen. It has happened before.
There's many times it's happened in Hollywood. We're obviously hoping
that it's going to happen. That is the dream. That's
why we call it the Hollywood dream. We hope that

(23:31):
it's going to happen. Our business plan is not based
on it. That here's what it could look like if
it happens, and we're all going to make a ton
of money. That's the put the smile on Uncle Charlie faceslide.
All Right, He's gonna love the fact that there could
be super, super big upside because even in his real
estate deals he could get a two or three or
four times return. Here, he's going to get a ten

(23:53):
to twenty times return. This is going to be that
monster return that people read about and dream about when
it happened. Yes, it can happen. Are you telling him
it's going to happen. No, you're saying it's a dream.
But dreams gonna happen in Hollywood. All right, So that's
the Hollywood dream side. That's the make you excited. That's
to show that gigantic ROI. Okay, So the next slide

(24:15):
is the investment scenario. How do you want to take
the money from Uncle Charlie. Is it going to be
equity or debt? Is he investing and getting a piece
of the action. Is he lending you the money and
he's going to get a return of his money and
then a profit share. This is this scenario that you're
basically saying to him, we want this much money, and
here's the number of units we're selling. If it's an

(24:38):
equity scenario or even a debt scenario, here's how you're
going to give us the money as debt or you're
gonna lend it, or here's how much time we need
it for. Here's when we think you're going to get
it back, and here's what your ROI is going to be,
your return on investment. That's the bottom line. He needs
to know what the overview looks like when you need

(25:01):
the money, how he's going to give it to you,
sort of what the cash flow is and when he's
going to get it back, and what the estimated profit
or ROI is going to be. That's the business slide.
The next slide is what we call risks. If everything
goes wrong, if the world turns upside down, how much
can Uncle Charlie lose. You need to be super, super

(25:23):
straightforward and honest on this, all right. You basically need
to say, uncle Charlie, you could lose it all. Now,
you're not going to lose it all. If you have,
say tax credits coming in, there's going to be some revenue.
Maybe you're investing a little bit yourself. You're going to
put in the first money, which is super credible to
have skin in the game. But you're going to say
to uncle Charlie, look, the film business is super high risk.

(25:46):
Some people can lose all their money. We don't expect
for you to lose it all, but you could lose
seventy five percent of it. Here's why, here's how the
numbers look. If you can't afford to lose this, we
appreciate you listening to our presentation, but it's better if
you don't invest. You say that to an investor. You
say that to Uncle Charlie because it's the truth. Remember

(26:06):
I said, tell the truth. People respect the truth. You
tell Uncle Charlie that this is the worst case scenario
that he can lose his money and not to invest
if he can't afford to lose it. And then the
last second, last light is what we call the fun stuff,
all right. Movie investing is a lot more fun than
real estate or than stocks and bonds. Why because there's

(26:28):
things you can give in the movie business you can't
give another businesses like, for instance, the investors could come
to the set. They can visit the set, watch the
movie being made. They could have maybe a cameo role
in the movie. You know, if they're an actor, they'd
have to audition, but a non speaking role in the background.
They love that. Investors love that. You can give them
a credit on IMDb. You could give them a credit

(26:51):
in the movie. Depending on the size of their investment.
Maybe they're an executive producer. They love that. You're gonna
have a red carpet screening of past and crew premier screening.
They're gonna be invited with all their friends and family.
It's gonna be a nice, fun, dress up event. They're
gonna get accolades at the screening. They're gonna love that.
They're gonna be a movie producer. Maybe there's a crew

(27:13):
jacket or something that you gave to your crew, You're
gonna give it to them. Maybe they have lunch with
the director on set. These are the fun things that
people love about the movie business that you can't get
in other businesses. And you've got to make it fun
for Uncle Charlie. That's one of the reasons that he
wants to invest is to have some fun. This is
a fun investment for him, all right. So that's why

(27:34):
we call it the Fun Stuff. And then the last
thing is your contact info. Make sure you remember you're
gonna send the deck to Uncle Charlie afterwards. Here's my
contact info, here's when we need the money, here's my
email and phone number. And we appreciate your time, thank
you for listening, and hopefully you'll want to be part

(27:55):
of our team and part of our dream. That is
a compelling investor deck. Remember you're going to do that
in eighteen minutes. I can easily do that. I could
do that in fifteen minutes. I mean I went into
a lot more detail obviously on this podcast. But if
you have it down pat and you know what you're
talking about, you do it quickly. Then if there's Q
and A, that's when you answer the questions and see

(28:17):
if Uncle Charlie has more time, but you respect the
fact that he has to be out of there at
that time, and you say, thank you very much. I'll
follow up with you in a week. Good luck. I
encourage all of my listeners to send me questions if
they're curious about certain topics or they want more information
on things that I've spoken about. So my email address
is Jdeverrett at devererettmedia dot com. It will be in

(28:40):
the show notes, and feel free to send in your
questions and we will hopefully be able to get to
them and expand and give you the answers.
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