June 18, 2025 • 24 mins
In this episode, Jeff Deverett dives into the different ways indie filmmakers can get a script—whether writing it themselves or hiring a writer. He breaks down the real costs, challenges, and whether it’s truly worth the investment. If you’re serious about indie filmmaking, you don’t want to miss this practical advice.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Scripts are the foundation of a good movie. You've got
a great script, you have a chance of making a
great indie film. But how do you get a script?
Do you write it yourself? Do you hire somebody to
write it? Do you find a script? This episode is
all about figuring out what script to use in your
indie film. If you want to be a successful indie filmmaker,
(00:21):
you need to know a lot about not just the
production of movies, but the business. We are going to
tell you the truth and reality of what really happens
in the indie film business. Hey, everybody, welcome back today's episode.
We're going to be talking about script writing. So a
(00:42):
lot of indie filmmakers often call themselves writer directors, and
that's because you know, that's what you really want to do.
You have an idea for a movie, you generally want
to write it and you want to direct it. I mean,
that's the fun part of indie filmmaking, which I totally agree.
So we're going to talk today about the writing part.
Here's how it works. You have a great idea or
(01:06):
you know a message you want to convey with the world,
or whatever the case may be, and you need a
script written. So here's the question, do you write it
yourself or do you hire somebody to write it. I'd
say that's up to you. It depends who you are,
depends how much time you have, depends what your skill
set is. If you want to take on writing, writing
is a big deal. I mean, it's definitely a skill set.
(01:27):
You have to learn how to write properly. Especially you
have to learn how to write a script properly, because
a script is written, you know, primarily in dialogue if
it's a drama, and there's certain formats that work well
and don't work well, and so you can't just sit
down and start writing and think that you're going to
get it right. You know, maybe you will, maybe you're
super talented and just comes naturally to you, but for
(01:47):
the most part, like most things in life, like, you've
got to have a little bit of training. So if
you're going to write your own script, I would suggest
that you one figure out the formats. You know, what
a script format really looks like, so that when you
actually shoot the movie it'll be in the right format.
Two that you know sort of the pacing, how scripts
work and everything. Listen, there's tons and tons of education
(02:11):
that goes on in script writing. There's tons of writers,
there's tons of stuff that you should really educate yourself
on to become a good script writer. And then of
course you got to take it on and it takes
I would say, on average, six to eight weeks to
write a script properly. Some people take a year, some
people take two years, depending on how much time you
have in your focus. Some people might say I can
write a script in a day or a week or
(02:31):
something like that. Also these days with AI, who knows
how fast you can write. But if you want to
take it on, kind of know what you're doing and
do it properly. So that's writing the script yourself. The
other way to get a script written is to hire
a scriptwriter, somebody who actually has done it before and
knows what they're doing. Obviously you're going to pay for that,
and there's different levels of payment. The highest level I
(02:53):
would say would probably be the WGA writer which is
the Writer's Guild of American Union. So these are professional
writers who have a lot of experience, a lot of training,
know what they're doing. They're part of that union and
for a good reason, because they've proven themselves and they've
earned sort of that level of distinction, but they charge
(03:13):
a lot. So there's minimums of how much it cost
to have a script written. You know, I didn't look
up what their current rates are, but they're in the
sixty to seventy thousand dollars range to get a first draft,
like a script written of a feature film. That might
be more than you want to spend. So that would
mean that you'd have to go to, say a non
union writer, somebody who charges less, but doesn't mean they're
(03:36):
not as talented. It means that maybe they just don't
have as much experience and haven't joined the guild, or
don't want to join the guild. Not everybody wants to
be part of it. So you got to go find
a writer, and you've got to interview them. It's just
like anything else, almost like dating, like do you like
this person, do you think that they have the skill,
do you think they share your vision? Do you think
that they can deliver? And then you have to negotiate
(03:58):
a fair deal. So the biggest question I get asked
about writing deals is how much how much should I
pay for a script? There's no hard fast number. There
are some people throw around different sort of percentages and
numbers and stuff like that. But I say it's number one.
It's budget dependent. It depends how much you're going to spend,
(04:18):
how much money you have to spend on your movie.
And then also, I'm a firm believer and you get
what you pay for. So if you're gonna have, say
a first time newbie student writer write a script, then
you're gonna pay a lot less because they might even
do it for free because they want that opportunity, they
want a writing credit on a feature film, but they
(04:39):
don't have the experience. So it's not going to be
a fantastic script, you know, although it could be right
think they could be super talented, and you never know.
Every once in a while you get these crazy, super
talented people who can just knock it off first time around.
But chances are it's not gonna be as good as
using a season writer who's had many goes at it
and done various scripts. So you're going to kind of
(04:59):
get to pay for So the general rule of thumb
that I use on an indie feature film, and again
this is not a hard fast rule. It is negotiable.
It's up and down. I say it's about five percent
of your budget is what the script's going to be.
So let's say you're shooting a five hundred thousand dollars feature,
I'd say you can get a script for twenty five thousand.
That's five percent. Can you get it for less, You
(05:21):
absolutely can get it for less. Can you pay more,
You certainly can pay more. Remember I said, it depends
on who you're hiring and their experience level and what
they're going to want to charge you, So it's all negotiable.
My general rule of thumb in hiring people and negotiating
with them is I just use one word fair. Just
be fair. So what does fair mean? Fair means that
(05:44):
both at the end of the day, both parties who
are negotiating with each other. So then in this case,
you know, maybe you're wearing the producer director hat and
you're hiring a scriptwriter. Fair means that both parties are
likely going to end up compromising a little bit on
their number, but walking away satisfied. That's what fair means.
So think of it. Here's the negotiation. So you the producer,
(06:07):
you say I want the script for ten thousand. The
writer says, okay, I understand you're working on a low
budget and everything like that. But it's a lot of work.
I have a lot of experience. I don't want to
write for ten thousand. I'll do it for forty thousand.
You say, I can't afford forty thousand. What can you afford?
I don't know. Maybe I can go up to fifteen. Well,
maybe I can come down to thirty five. And it's
back and forth, back and forth. So you see, everybody's compromising.
(06:30):
The producer's paying more than they ultimately wanted to pay,
the writer's going to take less than they ultimately want
it to take. And then you're going to find some
medium ground where everybody feels compromised but feels like that's
a fair deal and I can live with it. And
by the way, that's not just in script negotiations. That's
in life. You want the ultimate compromise, like finding fair ground.
(06:52):
Get married, that's all. That's what relationships are all about.
All right, I want to do this. I want to
do this. Okay, let's figure out what we can both
live with. I'll give on this, you'll give on this,
all right. So you come to a number, a fair number,
come to a time frame like always when you're if
you're hiring a scriptwriter or writing yourself. Set a time frame,
because if you don't, then it could go on for
(07:13):
a long time. People procrastinate. It's not a priority that
type of thing. So says, here's what I basically do.
I say, I want to treatment, So here's the idea,
here's what I want to do. Here's sort of the
message I want to portray. And maybe give even more
notes I generally give my writers. When I hire writers,
I give them tons of notes going into it. I say,
(07:34):
here's sort of the type of characters that I'm thinking of.
Here's the plot points, meaning here's what's going to happen
along the way. I'm looking for somewhere between ninety and
one hundred pages in terms of a first draft. And
you know, here's some other sort of thoughts and ideas
that I had about this story. So just to give
some direction, because it's ultimately your story, you're asking somebody
(07:56):
to write it for you, and I say, I'm going
to give you two weeks to write a synopsis, or
it's what we call a treatment, So that would be say,
an eight to ten page overview of what this story
is going to be. There's no dialogue necessary, It might
be a little few paragraphs here or there, but mostly
it's description, this happens, then this happens, then this happens.
(08:16):
You know, maybe a scene breakdown, not specific, but just
an overview of the direction that this is going to take,
the plot points, what's going to happen, when it's going
to happen. So it's a map basically, and then you
go back and for so they present you this synopsis
or the treatment in the first couple of weeks if
they have time. But if they don't have time, you know,
say what's reasonable three weeks for a treatment, and then
(08:39):
you give notes, you discuss it, and then you say, okay,
let's fine tune it, let's adjust this, this and this,
and then they go and they start writing the first draft.
And I generally feel like it's reasonable for a writer
to write a first draft within two months sixty days
after the treatment. Now, some people give three months, some
people give more. I feel like, on low budget indie filmmaking,
(09:00):
two months is a fair amount of time. And you know,
the writer might say, well, I'm busy, I got other
stuff on the go, and then you have to make
a decision. Okay, is that the writer you want to
use because they're busy, they have other priorities, or are
you okay with waiting the timeframe? So it's really up
to you. It's a discussion and negotiation. Then they write,
and generally that's what I keep using the term first draft.
So they are going to give you a first draft,
(09:21):
meaning they're going to give it back to you, and
they're going to say, okay, here's the script. Now. For sure,
you're gonna have notes. You're going to say, okay, this
reads well, I love this, I don't like this. Can
we adjust this, change this? And that's still what I
call the first draft, altering it a little bit. If
you're asking for a complete rewrite you don't like anything,
then obviously the relationship didn't work out. Maybe you hired
(09:42):
the wrong writer, maybe you didn't communicate well, maybe they
don't have the talent or whatever. If you have to
trash the whole thing and start again, that's a rewrite,
that's a whole new relationship. But adjusting a few things
here or there to get to sort of what you
feel good about is part of the first draft. That's
still draft number one, and that's what you paid for. Now,
is that the script you're ultimately going to shoot. Probably not,
(10:03):
it's probably going to go through a second draft or
what we call a polish when you're ready. I'll get
into that a little later on, but that's how you
get to the first draft. So you're either going to
write the script yourself or you're going to hire somebody
to write it. Now, the third option is you actually
don't have an idea for a movie, but somebody presents
a script to you that they've written and says, hey,
(10:24):
you should read the script. It's fantastic, and you, as
the producer, say, hey, I love this story, I love
this script. I will basically make your movie. So let's
just talk about that relationship for a second. So you
can basically buy the script out right and say I'll
give you this amount of money for this script. But
often what happens is the writer will say, okay, I'll
let you use the script here it is, pay me
this amount of money upfront, and then depending on you know,
(10:47):
based on your budget. I realize you have limited funds
and you can only pay me, I know, fifteen twenty
thousand dollars today. But if the movie gets made and
gets released and you make some money, I would like
some back end on it, you know, maybe five percent
of whatever your profits are. Something like that. Again, totally negotiable,
and as a producer, you have to make that decision
do you want to include the writer in the back end.
(11:09):
But it's not unreasonable because writing is the foundation of
a good movie. I don't know if writers get enough credit,
Like you know, the director these days is getting all
the credit for movies. But a director can't make a
good movie from a bad script. Some directors probably can't,
but generally speaking, you got to start with a good script.
It's got to be a compelling story. It's got to
(11:30):
be well told, it's got to be well paced. Script
Writing is a real art, and when you have a
great script to start with, it makes your life a
lot easier. When you're the director, production goes a lot
more smoothly because the script is so solid. Think of
it as like the foundation of a building. This is
the building is nice, but if it's not on a
solid foundation, it's gonna fall over. And that's what the
(11:52):
script is, is the foundation. Now we're gonna build on that.
We're gonna have actors actually play the parts. We're gonna
have directors you know, tell the story. We're going to
have editors who cut it all up at the end.
But I always say that the script is the story,
and then the rest of it is how you tell
the story. But the foundation of a movie is the story.
And a good story is really, really, you know, a
(12:15):
great asset to have if you can find it. So
sometimes you create that good story, sometimes you find it
and license it new somebody else's great story. But in
any case, you need a great story. And then you know,
the question is what's a great story? The question is
how high is high? Some people think this is a
great story. Some people think that's a great story. That's
(12:35):
why art is art. That's a personal opinion. And you know,
the irony is again, half of the foundation is the
great story, and half of movie making is the foundation.
But the other half is being able to tell the story,
which is directing, acting, editing. So think of this like,
here's what I always tell my writers. And again, this
(12:55):
is the world according to Jeff Everett. So you don't
have to listen to this, especially if you're a writer.
You might not like what I'm about to say, but
it's the truth. Okay, we're talking about truths. And realities here.
This is what actually happens, especially on low budget indie filmmaking.
You're going to give the production the script you're gonna write.
You're gonna have the script the foundation, and then as
you're shooting, lots of things are going to start to
(13:17):
change on it. So I say to my writer's look,
I'm going to give you the option of taking a
writing credit on this movie. And they say, what do
you mean the option? What does that mean? I say,
right now, you're the writer. You've written the script, so
your credit is going to be written by But by
the time the movie gets finished and goes through all
the iterations and I can explain what all those iterations are,
(13:39):
the story might be so different than what you wrote
that you maybe not even recognize it anymore. And therefore
you don't want to take a writing credit because you
don't believe it's actually your story anymore. So people say
that's nuts, and I say, yeah, it's nuts, but it's
what actually happens, and I'll explain why it happens. All right.
So you start with a great script, hopefully it's a
great script, and now you go and you do a
(14:02):
script breakdown, and you schedule your shoot based on that script,
and you do a budget and you realize that there's
certain things in the script that you can't afford because
you don't have enough money, Like certain sort of locations
maybe that we're too big. Now you got to write
them out. If you want to make the movie at
the budget you're working with, you're going to have to
alter and change the script a little bit so that
(14:22):
you can actually afford to shoot the scene. The way
you can afford it is suppose the way it was
originally written. So the writer has no limitations when they're writing,
Like there could be this line in the moo in
the script says actors getting a rocket ship, fly to
the moon, fly back. I mean that's a big scene
if you do it properly. Now on an indie film,
you probably don't have the money to actually do that scene.
(14:43):
So it's changed to they sit in a boardroom and
talk about flying to the moon, and there's something else
that's done, and that's what you can afford. So all
of a sudden, the script is different. That happens all
the time on indie shoots because of affordability budget limitations.
So that's number one. So the script gets written because
of that, because there's certain things you can't afford. Number Two,
(15:04):
the director says, I just I don't love it the
way it's written right now. I'm going to make some adjustments.
And on a big budget film, if the director says
that they bring the writer back in, they have a discussion,
the writer makes the changes. But generally on a low
budget indie film, they can't afford to bring the writer
back in, and the director just makes those changes unilatterly,
which I'm okay with and I think that makes sense
(15:25):
for indie filmmaking and hopefully writers you don't get your
nose at a joint because the director, you know, that's
their priority to do that, and that's generally how the
deals are written that they're allowed to make those changes.
So they're going to put their signature on it and
make those changes kind of how they want to tell
the story. So the producer is going to change it
for budget reasons, the director's going to change it for
(15:45):
storytelling reasons. Now you're going to start to shoot the movie,
and then the actors are going to probably do a
little ad libbing. They're probably like, you know, certain actors
go exactly verbatim, word for word the way the script is.
But sometimes an actor will say, can I try differently?
Or I have a different interpretation of my character, and
I think that they would say it this way, or
(16:06):
they wouldn't say this, or they would do this now.
Depending on what kind of director you are, sometimes you
embrace that. Like I love one actors, especially actors who
totally get into their role and understand their character really well.
I encourage them to give me sort of ideas and feedback,
and if they say, hey, can I try it this way?
And generally, as a director, I say, shoot it the
(16:26):
way it's written and then we'll do another take and
I'll let you try it your way and let's see
how it looks. So we'll have both options. But very
often a good actor is going to interpret their role
really well and add to it, and they're going to
change the dialogue and maybe change the character even a
little bit, and it's going to enhance the movie. So
that's what good actors do. They actually can elevate your
(16:46):
movie and enhance it by getting into their roles and
understanding it. So that's going to change the script a lot.
And then the biggest change is going to be an editing.
Now you've shot all the footage, you give it to
your editor, and the editor is going to tell the
story way differently. Like I'll give you a very tiny,
little small example. Let's say two people are having a conversation. Generally,
(17:06):
you're gonna have a master shot, you know, a two
shot of the two people talking. Right. Then you're gonna
have you know, standard coverage. You'll have a close up
shot of one person and a reaction shot of the other,
and then you'll reverse it close up of this and
a reaction to that. You know, maybe an over the shoulder,
you know, medium shot or something like that, so you'll
have some coverage. Now, what's the better shot when two
people are talking? Is it the shot of the person
(17:28):
who's talking, or is it the shot of the person
who's listening and reacting to the person who's talking. Now,
remember it's the exact same conversation, the exact same dialogue,
the exact same shot. Like take, But is it better
to see the reaction of the person who's listening because
that's more telling of sort of what the person's saying
and of the storytelling, or better to see the person
talking or a combination thereof or the two shot of
(17:52):
seeing both of them. So this is where editing basically
comes in and is storytelling. So now a scriptwriter's gonna
look at that and say, hey, what second, that's not
what I envision when I wrote the script. I envision,
you know, this person talking and I didn't even know
that there were other people in the room or this
or that type of thing. And that's why I say
often to the script writers, you might not even recognize
(18:15):
the story after it's all goes through all those processes,
the producer, the director, the actors, the editor. It's going
to change a lot. On big budget shoots, the writers
usually involved and they're part of the process. Like you
see in these movies where the writer's on set, Okay,
call on the writer, rewrite this line, do that kind
of stuff. It doesn't happen that way no budget indshoots,
because you can't afford to do that. You got to
(18:36):
move quicker. It happens more organically. So for the most part,
I think you're generally gonna end up with a better
product because everybody's going to put their signature on it.
You know. Hopefully, actors, like I said, are going to
do a good job. The directors going to help enhance
the story. The editor hopefully will step it up a
little bit. But sometimes the writer says, this isn't my right,
this isn't what I wrote, and that's why I say, okay,
(18:57):
then don't put your name on it. Now. Most writers
do because there's enough in it still. But sometimes, you know,
the names of the characters change, the names of the
you know, the plot points change, a lot of stuff changes,
and they don't agree with it. They don't feel comfortable,
and they say, I don't want to put my name
on it, and you say, okay, I understand. You know
that's part of the process, all right. So that's what
(19:18):
really goes on now in terms of let's just get
back to if you write the script. Now you're the
writer director, You've written a script and you want to
get it made. And so hopefully this is what I
tell especially first time writers, try to wear a producer's
hat when you're writing the script, meaning try to figure
(19:38):
out sort of how much money you're going to be
able to access as the producer, and then write the
script within that budget level more or less. Now, I
know a lot of scriptwriters don't have the experience as
to how much things cost, especially locations and equipment and
that kind of stuff. But if you're working on, you know,
a two hundred and three hundred thousand dollars low budget movie,
(20:00):
don't be writing epic, gigantic scenes like action adventure scenes.
You know, you're not writing Avatar here, all right. You're
writing a low budget drama that's mostly dialogue driven in
very simple locations because that's literally what you're going to
be able to afford. So don't be delusional and convince
yourself that you can afford to do these other things.
(20:22):
And I'll give you a great example. Okay, So I
do a lot of sports drama films, usually inspired by
true stories, and each of these films usually has one
or two really big, sort of the payoff scenes, which
would be say a big game in a stadium or
something like that. Now, do I want to shoot those
scenes in an eighty thousand person NFL stadium? Yeah, of
course I do, because that would be epic, that would
(20:44):
be unbelievable, make the film look gigantic. It would be
like a big Hollywood film. But guess what, I can't
afford that, Like, I'm shooting low budget edting films. This
is a half a million dollars, seven hundred thousand dollars film.
That one scene would eat up five times that budget.
And that's a five million dollar scene for a Hollywood movie.
You know, probably you're not gonna put eighty thousand people
in the stands, but you're probably gonna put ten in
(21:06):
and you're gonna shoot the angles, so ten thousand extras,
you're gonna big stadium, big production value, multiple cameras, all
this kind of stuff. I can't afford it. What I
love it, of course I would love it, but realistically
you can't afford it. So why write it in? Just
don't write that in. You write it in, and then
you're gonna feel bad that you can't do it. You
don't write it in because you can't afford it. You
(21:27):
put in something that is more realistic. Then you don't
fall in love with this scene that you ultimately have
to write out of the movie. It's kind of the
same what people do with music. So everybody does a
temp track with like these needle drop unbelievably great songs
just to see what it'll sound like, and then they
fall in love with those songs and they realize they
can't afford it, don't do it. Just don't put that
in so you don't have to fall in love and
(21:48):
be disappointed afterwards. So don't write in big stuff that
you don't think you can afford. Now, as new writers,
sometimes you don't know what you can afford. You haven't
had any producing experience, so you're not sure what things cost,
all right, So you just do your best. Now. You
want things to be epic, you want them to be big,
you want your story to be great, but you got
to be realistic within the means that you have. So
(22:10):
otherwise your script is not going to get shot the
way it's written. The story's not going to get told
that way, and the truth be told. Sometimes people will
pass on your script if you're a script writer you know,
not a writer director, because it's too big, it's too epic.
They can't afford it, and they'll instead of saying to
you rewrite it at this level, they just say, thanks
a lot, I got to go find something, you know,
more affordable. It depends what level you're writing for. So
(22:31):
that's the reality of what really goes on in script writing.
And I do have a lot of respect for good writing.
Like I said, it's the foundation of a good movie
years ago. I think writer's got a lot more credit
for the story. I think directors are taking a lot
of credit for credit that writers should probably have gotten.
I know it's a team effort, and sometimes it is
(22:52):
a writer director, but a good script is fantastic. It's
just how do I judge what a good script is.
It's kind of like most people say, you're reading it,
you don't want to put it down, you want to
see what's coming next. You're engaged by it. You're not like,
oh gosh, do I have to finish reading this? Like seriously,
you're you're already bored by page ten. A good script
(23:12):
keeps your attention and holds it. And it's not necessarily
because it's action adventure or anything like that. It's just engaging.
It could be a very melodrama with engaging dialogue. It's
not about what's going to happen next and the suspense
thriller that type of thing. I mean, I generally do
melo dramas, and it's like, am I interested in this conversation?
Are they these characters engaging to me? Is enough happening
(23:34):
to keep me interested? Now? Obviously, when you add all
the other elements of storytelling, you know, actors and sets
and props and wardrobe and all this kind of stuff.
It's going to enhance it and make it a lot
more interesting. But if you're starting with something that's weak
to start with and not even engaging, it's going to
be hard to tell that in an engaging way. So
can you make a good movie from a bad script?
(23:56):
I say Hollywood can, because they're going to spend a
ton of money on spend effects and other things that
engage audiences. But I don't think low budget indie filmmakers
can because you're not going to be able to dress
it up with all that other stuff. So you can't
really hide around the special effects and the makeup and
the wardrobe and the set design and all that kind
of stuff the way big budget films can. On low
(24:18):
budget indie films, you're going to need a decent story
and you need to tell it in a compelling way.
So that is script writing. And it's magical to write
a script, but it's a lot of work. Do not
underestimate how much work it is to do it properly,
and good luck or hope to have fun writing those
scripts or they're getting involved as writer. Directors are just
(24:39):
finding the right script.
Scripts are the foundation of a good movie. You've got
a great script, you have a chance of making a
great indie film. But how do you get a script?
Do you write it yourself? Do you hire somebody to
write it? Do you find a script? This episode is
all about figuring out what script to use in your
indie film. If you want to be a successful indie filmmaker,
(00:21):
you need to know a lot about not just the
production of movies, but the business. We are going to
tell you the truth and reality of what really happens
in the indie film business. Hey, everybody, welcome back today's episode.
We're going to be talking about script writing. So a
(00:42):
lot of indie filmmakers often call themselves writer directors, and
that's because you know, that's what you really want to do.
You have an idea for a movie, you generally want
to write it and you want to direct it. I mean,
that's the fun part of indie filmmaking, which I totally agree.
So we're going to talk today about the writing part.
Here's how it works. You have a great idea or
(01:06):
you know a message you want to convey with the world,
or whatever the case may be, and you need a
script written. So here's the question, do you write it
yourself or do you hire somebody to write it. I'd
say that's up to you. It depends who you are,
depends how much time you have, depends what your skill
set is. If you want to take on writing, writing
is a big deal. I mean, it's definitely a skill set.
(01:27):
You have to learn how to write properly. Especially you
have to learn how to write a script properly, because
a script is written, you know, primarily in dialogue if
it's a drama, and there's certain formats that work well
and don't work well, and so you can't just sit
down and start writing and think that you're going to
get it right. You know, maybe you will, maybe you're
super talented and just comes naturally to you, but for
(01:47):
the most part, like most things in life, like, you've
got to have a little bit of training. So if
you're going to write your own script, I would suggest
that you one figure out the formats. You know, what
a script format really looks like, so that when you
actually shoot the movie it'll be in the right format.
Two that you know sort of the pacing, how scripts
work and everything. Listen, there's tons and tons of education
(02:11):
that goes on in script writing. There's tons of writers,
there's tons of stuff that you should really educate yourself
on to become a good script writer. And then of
course you got to take it on and it takes
I would say, on average, six to eight weeks to
write a script properly. Some people take a year, some
people take two years, depending on how much time you
have in your focus. Some people might say I can
write a script in a day or a week or
(02:31):
something like that. Also these days with AI, who knows
how fast you can write. But if you want to
take it on, kind of know what you're doing and
do it properly. So that's writing the script yourself. The
other way to get a script written is to hire
a scriptwriter, somebody who actually has done it before and
knows what they're doing. Obviously you're going to pay for that,
and there's different levels of payment. The highest level I
(02:53):
would say would probably be the WGA writer which is
the Writer's Guild of American Union. So these are professional
writers who have a lot of experience, a lot of training,
know what they're doing. They're part of that union and
for a good reason, because they've proven themselves and they've
earned sort of that level of distinction, but they charge
(03:13):
a lot. So there's minimums of how much it cost
to have a script written. You know, I didn't look
up what their current rates are, but they're in the
sixty to seventy thousand dollars range to get a first draft,
like a script written of a feature film. That might
be more than you want to spend. So that would
mean that you'd have to go to, say a non
union writer, somebody who charges less, but doesn't mean they're
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not as talented. It means that maybe they just don't
have as much experience and haven't joined the guild, or
don't want to join the guild. Not everybody wants to
be part of it. So you got to go find
a writer, and you've got to interview them. It's just
like anything else, almost like dating, like do you like
this person, do you think that they have the skill,
do you think they share your vision? Do you think
that they can deliver? And then you have to negotiate
(03:58):
a fair deal. So the biggest question I get asked
about writing deals is how much how much should I
pay for a script? There's no hard fast number. There
are some people throw around different sort of percentages and
numbers and stuff like that. But I say it's number one.
It's budget dependent. It depends how much you're going to spend,
(04:18):
how much money you have to spend on your movie.
And then also, I'm a firm believer and you get
what you pay for. So if you're gonna have, say
a first time newbie student writer write a script, then
you're gonna pay a lot less because they might even
do it for free because they want that opportunity, they
want a writing credit on a feature film, but they
(04:39):
don't have the experience. So it's not going to be
a fantastic script, you know, although it could be right
think they could be super talented, and you never know.
Every once in a while you get these crazy, super
talented people who can just knock it off first time around.
But chances are it's not gonna be as good as
using a season writer who's had many goes at it
and done various scripts. So you're going to kind of
(04:59):
get to pay for So the general rule of thumb
that I use on an indie feature film, and again
this is not a hard fast rule. It is negotiable.
It's up and down. I say it's about five percent
of your budget is what the script's going to be.
So let's say you're shooting a five hundred thousand dollars feature,
I'd say you can get a script for twenty five thousand.
That's five percent. Can you get it for less, You
(05:21):
absolutely can get it for less. Can you pay more,
You certainly can pay more. Remember I said, it depends
on who you're hiring and their experience level and what
they're going to want to charge you, So it's all negotiable.
My general rule of thumb in hiring people and negotiating
with them is I just use one word fair. Just
be fair. So what does fair mean? Fair means that
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both at the end of the day, both parties who
are negotiating with each other. So then in this case,
you know, maybe you're wearing the producer director hat and
you're hiring a scriptwriter. Fair means that both parties are
likely going to end up compromising a little bit on
their number, but walking away satisfied. That's what fair means.
So think of it. Here's the negotiation. So you the producer,
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you say I want the script for ten thousand. The
writer says, okay, I understand you're working on a low
budget and everything like that. But it's a lot of work.
I have a lot of experience. I don't want to
write for ten thousand. I'll do it for forty thousand.
You say, I can't afford forty thousand. What can you afford?
I don't know. Maybe I can go up to fifteen. Well,
maybe I can come down to thirty five. And it's
back and forth, back and forth. So you see, everybody's compromising.
(06:30):
The producer's paying more than they ultimately wanted to pay,
the writer's going to take less than they ultimately want
it to take. And then you're going to find some
medium ground where everybody feels compromised but feels like that's
a fair deal and I can live with it. And
by the way, that's not just in script negotiations. That's
in life. You want the ultimate compromise, like finding fair ground.
(06:52):
Get married, that's all. That's what relationships are all about.
All right, I want to do this. I want to
do this. Okay, let's figure out what we can both
live with. I'll give on this, you'll give on this,
all right. So you come to a number, a fair number,
come to a time frame like always when you're if
you're hiring a scriptwriter or writing yourself. Set a time frame,
because if you don't, then it could go on for
(07:13):
a long time. People procrastinate. It's not a priority that
type of thing. So says, here's what I basically do.
I say, I want to treatment, So here's the idea,
here's what I want to do. Here's sort of the
message I want to portray. And maybe give even more
notes I generally give my writers. When I hire writers,
I give them tons of notes going into it. I say,
(07:34):
here's sort of the type of characters that I'm thinking of.
Here's the plot points, meaning here's what's going to happen
along the way. I'm looking for somewhere between ninety and
one hundred pages in terms of a first draft. And
you know, here's some other sort of thoughts and ideas
that I had about this story. So just to give
some direction, because it's ultimately your story, you're asking somebody
(07:56):
to write it for you, and I say, I'm going
to give you two weeks to write a synopsis, or
it's what we call a treatment, So that would be say,
an eight to ten page overview of what this story
is going to be. There's no dialogue necessary, It might
be a little few paragraphs here or there, but mostly
it's description, this happens, then this happens, then this happens.
(08:16):
You know, maybe a scene breakdown, not specific, but just
an overview of the direction that this is going to take,
the plot points, what's going to happen, when it's going
to happen. So it's a map basically, and then you
go back and for so they present you this synopsis
or the treatment in the first couple of weeks if
they have time. But if they don't have time, you know,
say what's reasonable three weeks for a treatment, and then
(08:39):
you give notes, you discuss it, and then you say, okay,
let's fine tune it, let's adjust this, this and this,
and then they go and they start writing the first draft.
And I generally feel like it's reasonable for a writer
to write a first draft within two months sixty days
after the treatment. Now, some people give three months, some
people give more. I feel like, on low budget indie filmmaking,
(09:00):
two months is a fair amount of time. And you know,
the writer might say, well, I'm busy, I got other
stuff on the go, and then you have to make
a decision. Okay, is that the writer you want to
use because they're busy, they have other priorities, or are
you okay with waiting the timeframe? So it's really up
to you. It's a discussion and negotiation. Then they write,
and generally that's what I keep using the term first draft.
So they are going to give you a first draft,
(09:21):
meaning they're going to give it back to you, and
they're going to say, okay, here's the script. Now. For sure,
you're gonna have notes. You're going to say, okay, this
reads well, I love this, I don't like this. Can
we adjust this, change this? And that's still what I
call the first draft, altering it a little bit. If
you're asking for a complete rewrite you don't like anything,
then obviously the relationship didn't work out. Maybe you hired
(09:42):
the wrong writer, maybe you didn't communicate well, maybe they
don't have the talent or whatever. If you have to
trash the whole thing and start again, that's a rewrite,
that's a whole new relationship. But adjusting a few things
here or there to get to sort of what you
feel good about is part of the first draft. That's
still draft number one, and that's what you paid for. Now,
is that the script you're ultimately going to shoot. Probably not,
(10:03):
it's probably going to go through a second draft or
what we call a polish when you're ready. I'll get
into that a little later on, but that's how you
get to the first draft. So you're either going to
write the script yourself or you're going to hire somebody
to write it. Now, the third option is you actually
don't have an idea for a movie, but somebody presents
a script to you that they've written and says, hey,
(10:24):
you should read the script. It's fantastic, and you, as
the producer, say, hey, I love this story, I love
this script. I will basically make your movie. So let's
just talk about that relationship for a second. So you
can basically buy the script out right and say I'll
give you this amount of money for this script. But
often what happens is the writer will say, okay, I'll
let you use the script here it is, pay me
this amount of money upfront, and then depending on you know,
(10:47):
based on your budget. I realize you have limited funds
and you can only pay me, I know, fifteen twenty
thousand dollars today. But if the movie gets made and
gets released and you make some money, I would like
some back end on it, you know, maybe five percent
of whatever your profits are. Something like that. Again, totally negotiable,
and as a producer, you have to make that decision
do you want to include the writer in the back end.
(11:09):
But it's not unreasonable because writing is the foundation of
a good movie. I don't know if writers get enough credit,
Like you know, the director these days is getting all
the credit for movies. But a director can't make a
good movie from a bad script. Some directors probably can't,
but generally speaking, you got to start with a good script.
It's got to be a compelling story. It's got to
(11:30):
be well told, it's got to be well paced. Script
Writing is a real art, and when you have a
great script to start with, it makes your life a
lot easier. When you're the director, production goes a lot
more smoothly because the script is so solid. Think of
it as like the foundation of a building. This is
the building is nice, but if it's not on a
solid foundation, it's gonna fall over. And that's what the
(11:52):
script is, is the foundation. Now we're gonna build on that.
We're gonna have actors actually play the parts. We're gonna
have directors you know, tell the story. We're going to
have editors who cut it all up at the end.
But I always say that the script is the story,
and then the rest of it is how you tell
the story. But the foundation of a movie is the story.
And a good story is really, really, you know, a
(12:15):
great asset to have if you can find it. So
sometimes you create that good story, sometimes you find it
and license it new somebody else's great story. But in
any case, you need a great story. And then you know,
the question is what's a great story? The question is
how high is high? Some people think this is a
great story. Some people think that's a great story. That's
(12:35):
why art is art. That's a personal opinion. And you know,
the irony is again, half of the foundation is the
great story, and half of movie making is the foundation.
But the other half is being able to tell the story,
which is directing, acting, editing. So think of this like,
here's what I always tell my writers. And again, this
(12:55):
is the world according to Jeff Everett. So you don't
have to listen to this, especially if you're a writer.
You might not like what I'm about to say, but
it's the truth. Okay, we're talking about truths. And realities here.
This is what actually happens, especially on low budget indie filmmaking.
You're going to give the production the script you're gonna write.
You're gonna have the script the foundation, and then as
you're shooting, lots of things are going to start to
(13:17):
change on it. So I say to my writer's look,
I'm going to give you the option of taking a
writing credit on this movie. And they say, what do
you mean the option? What does that mean? I say,
right now, you're the writer. You've written the script, so
your credit is going to be written by But by
the time the movie gets finished and goes through all
the iterations and I can explain what all those iterations are,
(13:39):
the story might be so different than what you wrote
that you maybe not even recognize it anymore. And therefore
you don't want to take a writing credit because you
don't believe it's actually your story anymore. So people say
that's nuts, and I say, yeah, it's nuts, but it's
what actually happens, and I'll explain why it happens. All right.
So you start with a great script, hopefully it's a
great script, and now you go and you do a
(14:02):
script breakdown, and you schedule your shoot based on that script,
and you do a budget and you realize that there's
certain things in the script that you can't afford because
you don't have enough money, Like certain sort of locations
maybe that we're too big. Now you got to write
them out. If you want to make the movie at
the budget you're working with, you're going to have to
alter and change the script a little bit so that
(14:22):
you can actually afford to shoot the scene. The way
you can afford it is suppose the way it was
originally written. So the writer has no limitations when they're writing,
Like there could be this line in the moo in
the script says actors getting a rocket ship, fly to
the moon, fly back. I mean that's a big scene
if you do it properly. Now on an indie film,
you probably don't have the money to actually do that scene.
(14:43):
So it's changed to they sit in a boardroom and
talk about flying to the moon, and there's something else
that's done, and that's what you can afford. So all
of a sudden, the script is different. That happens all
the time on indie shoots because of affordability budget limitations.
So that's number one. So the script gets written because
of that, because there's certain things you can't afford. Number Two,
(15:04):
the director says, I just I don't love it the
way it's written right now. I'm going to make some adjustments.
And on a big budget film, if the director says
that they bring the writer back in, they have a discussion,
the writer makes the changes. But generally on a low
budget indie film, they can't afford to bring the writer
back in, and the director just makes those changes unilatterly,
which I'm okay with and I think that makes sense
(15:25):
for indie filmmaking and hopefully writers you don't get your
nose at a joint because the director, you know, that's
their priority to do that, and that's generally how the
deals are written that they're allowed to make those changes.
So they're going to put their signature on it and
make those changes kind of how they want to tell
the story. So the producer is going to change it
for budget reasons, the director's going to change it for
(15:45):
storytelling reasons. Now you're going to start to shoot the movie,
and then the actors are going to probably do a
little ad libbing. They're probably like, you know, certain actors
go exactly verbatim, word for word the way the script is.
But sometimes an actor will say, can I try differently?
Or I have a different interpretation of my character, and
I think that they would say it this way, or
(16:06):
they wouldn't say this, or they would do this now.
Depending on what kind of director you are, sometimes you
embrace that. Like I love one actors, especially actors who
totally get into their role and understand their character really well.
I encourage them to give me sort of ideas and feedback,
and if they say, hey, can I try it this way?
And generally, as a director, I say, shoot it the
(16:26):
way it's written and then we'll do another take and
I'll let you try it your way and let's see
how it looks. So we'll have both options. But very
often a good actor is going to interpret their role
really well and add to it, and they're going to
change the dialogue and maybe change the character even a
little bit, and it's going to enhance the movie. So
that's what good actors do. They actually can elevate your
(16:46):
movie and enhance it by getting into their roles and
understanding it. So that's going to change the script a lot.
And then the biggest change is going to be an editing.
Now you've shot all the footage, you give it to
your editor, and the editor is going to tell the
story way differently. Like I'll give you a very tiny,
little small example. Let's say two people are having a conversation. Generally,
(17:06):
you're gonna have a master shot, you know, a two
shot of the two people talking. Right. Then you're gonna
have you know, standard coverage. You'll have a close up
shot of one person and a reaction shot of the other,
and then you'll reverse it close up of this and
a reaction to that. You know, maybe an over the shoulder,
you know, medium shot or something like that, so you'll
have some coverage. Now, what's the better shot when two
people are talking? Is it the shot of the person
(17:28):
who's talking, or is it the shot of the person
who's listening and reacting to the person who's talking. Now,
remember it's the exact same conversation, the exact same dialogue,
the exact same shot. Like take, But is it better
to see the reaction of the person who's listening because
that's more telling of sort of what the person's saying
and of the storytelling, or better to see the person
talking or a combination thereof or the two shot of
(17:52):
seeing both of them. So this is where editing basically
comes in and is storytelling. So now a scriptwriter's gonna
look at that and say, hey, what second, that's not
what I envision when I wrote the script. I envision,
you know, this person talking and I didn't even know
that there were other people in the room or this
or that type of thing. And that's why I say
often to the script writers, you might not even recognize
(18:15):
the story after it's all goes through all those processes,
the producer, the director, the actors, the editor. It's going
to change a lot. On big budget shoots, the writers
usually involved and they're part of the process. Like you
see in these movies where the writer's on set, Okay,
call on the writer, rewrite this line, do that kind
of stuff. It doesn't happen that way no budget indshoots,
because you can't afford to do that. You got to
(18:36):
move quicker. It happens more organically. So for the most part,
I think you're generally gonna end up with a better
product because everybody's going to put their signature on it.
You know. Hopefully, actors, like I said, are going to
do a good job. The directors going to help enhance
the story. The editor hopefully will step it up a
little bit. But sometimes the writer says, this isn't my right,
this isn't what I wrote, and that's why I say, okay,
(18:57):
then don't put your name on it. Now. Most writers
do because there's enough in it still. But sometimes, you know,
the names of the characters change, the names of the
you know, the plot points change, a lot of stuff changes,
and they don't agree with it. They don't feel comfortable,
and they say, I don't want to put my name
on it, and you say, okay, I understand. You know
that's part of the process, all right. So that's what
(19:18):
really goes on now in terms of let's just get
back to if you write the script. Now you're the
writer director, You've written a script and you want to
get it made. And so hopefully this is what I
tell especially first time writers, try to wear a producer's
hat when you're writing the script, meaning try to figure
(19:38):
out sort of how much money you're going to be
able to access as the producer, and then write the
script within that budget level more or less. Now, I
know a lot of scriptwriters don't have the experience as
to how much things cost, especially locations and equipment and
that kind of stuff. But if you're working on, you know,
a two hundred and three hundred thousand dollars low budget movie,
(20:00):
don't be writing epic, gigantic scenes like action adventure scenes.
You know, you're not writing Avatar here, all right. You're
writing a low budget drama that's mostly dialogue driven in
very simple locations because that's literally what you're going to
be able to afford. So don't be delusional and convince
yourself that you can afford to do these other things.
(20:22):
And I'll give you a great example. Okay, So I
do a lot of sports drama films, usually inspired by
true stories, and each of these films usually has one
or two really big, sort of the payoff scenes, which
would be say a big game in a stadium or
something like that. Now, do I want to shoot those
scenes in an eighty thousand person NFL stadium? Yeah, of
course I do, because that would be epic, that would
(20:44):
be unbelievable, make the film look gigantic. It would be
like a big Hollywood film. But guess what, I can't
afford that, Like, I'm shooting low budget edting films. This
is a half a million dollars, seven hundred thousand dollars film.
That one scene would eat up five times that budget.
And that's a five million dollar scene for a Hollywood movie.
You know, probably you're not gonna put eighty thousand people
in the stands, but you're probably gonna put ten in
(21:06):
and you're gonna shoot the angles, so ten thousand extras,
you're gonna big stadium, big production value, multiple cameras, all
this kind of stuff. I can't afford it. What I
love it, of course I would love it, but realistically
you can't afford it. So why write it in? Just
don't write that in. You write it in, and then
you're gonna feel bad that you can't do it. You
don't write it in because you can't afford it. You
(21:27):
put in something that is more realistic. Then you don't
fall in love with this scene that you ultimately have
to write out of the movie. It's kind of the
same what people do with music. So everybody does a
temp track with like these needle drop unbelievably great songs
just to see what it'll sound like, and then they
fall in love with those songs and they realize they
can't afford it, don't do it. Just don't put that
in so you don't have to fall in love and
(21:48):
be disappointed afterwards. So don't write in big stuff that
you don't think you can afford. Now, as new writers,
sometimes you don't know what you can afford. You haven't
had any producing experience, so you're not sure what things cost,
all right, So you just do your best. Now. You
want things to be epic, you want them to be big,
you want your story to be great, but you got
to be realistic within the means that you have. So
(22:10):
otherwise your script is not going to get shot the
way it's written. The story's not going to get told
that way, and the truth be told. Sometimes people will
pass on your script if you're a script writer you know,
not a writer director, because it's too big, it's too epic.
They can't afford it, and they'll instead of saying to
you rewrite it at this level, they just say, thanks
a lot, I got to go find something, you know,
more affordable. It depends what level you're writing for. So
(22:31):
that's the reality of what really goes on in script writing.
And I do have a lot of respect for good writing.
Like I said, it's the foundation of a good movie
years ago. I think writer's got a lot more credit
for the story. I think directors are taking a lot
of credit for credit that writers should probably have gotten.
I know it's a team effort, and sometimes it is
(22:52):
a writer director, but a good script is fantastic. It's
just how do I judge what a good script is.
It's kind of like most people say, you're reading it,
you don't want to put it down, you want to
see what's coming next. You're engaged by it. You're not like,
oh gosh, do I have to finish reading this? Like seriously,
you're you're already bored by page ten. A good script
(23:12):
keeps your attention and holds it. And it's not necessarily
because it's action adventure or anything like that. It's just engaging.
It could be a very melodrama with engaging dialogue. It's
not about what's going to happen next and the suspense
thriller that type of thing. I mean, I generally do
melo dramas, and it's like, am I interested in this conversation?
Are they these characters engaging to me? Is enough happening
(23:34):
to keep me interested? Now? Obviously, when you add all
the other elements of storytelling, you know, actors and sets
and props and wardrobe and all this kind of stuff.
It's going to enhance it and make it a lot
more interesting. But if you're starting with something that's weak
to start with and not even engaging, it's going to
be hard to tell that in an engaging way. So
can you make a good movie from a bad script?
(23:56):
I say Hollywood can, because they're going to spend a
ton of money on spend effects and other things that
engage audiences. But I don't think low budget indie filmmakers
can because you're not going to be able to dress
it up with all that other stuff. So you can't
really hide around the special effects and the makeup and
the wardrobe and the set design and all that kind
of stuff the way big budget films can. On low
(24:18):
budget indie films, you're going to need a decent story
and you need to tell it in a compelling way.
So that is script writing. And it's magical to write
a script, but it's a lot of work. Do not
underestimate how much work it is to do it properly,
and good luck or hope to have fun writing those
scripts or they're getting involved as writer. Directors are just
(24:39):
finding the right script.
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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.