June 11, 2025 • 30 mins
In this episode of Indie Filmmaking Truth & Reality, host Jeff Deverett sits down with professional sound designer and mixer Beto Cabral to dive into the often-overlooked world of production sound in indie filmmaking. They explore why sound is frequently underrated due to budget limitations and how high-quality audio can significantly elevate storytelling, even in low-budget projects.Jeff and Beto also discuss the challenges of capturing clean audio on set, the nuances of post-production mixing, and the critical role of the sound mixer in advocating for quality sound—balancing technical precision with the realities of tight schedules and limited resources.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You want to make a great movie, you got to
be able to see it, and you got to be
able to hear it. Today's guest is a professional sound
recorder and mixer. He's the guy who makes everybody able
to hear the movie properly. If you want to be
a successful indie filmmaker, you need to know a lot
about not just the production of movies, but the business.
(00:22):
We are going to tell you the truth and reality
of what really happens in the indie film business. Right today.
We have Beto Cabrel and he and I have worked
on many movies together. When you find somebody who's really
good at doing the sound recording and the mixing, you
(00:42):
keep going back to them because you want your movie
to sound good. And Beto has earned my trust many
many times over because he just knows what he's doing
and he does it really well and always keeps a
smile on his face. Beto, welcome to the show. Thank
you very much for coming on and sharing all your
experiences and thoughts with our audience. We've done three movies together,
(01:04):
three I think so far right and truth being known,
I mean, I'm not sure I'd even ever look for
anybody else because I like your style. I like how
quick you move. I like when you stop me and say, Jeff,
we need to do that again. You are a perfectionist
within the means, like not perfect perfect. Like you'll say
to me sometimes when we're shooting, you'll say, Okay, I'll say,
(01:26):
how was it. You'll say it could be better? But
it's usable. And you see a director when they're moving
at the speed I move at, likes to hear that
kind of thing. But sometimes you'll say to me, we
need to do it again, And I respect that, So
I like that a lot. All right, So listen, I
think a lot of indie filmmakers underestimate the importance of
recording sound properly, and nobody really wants to spend the
(01:47):
money to do it at the level you do it.
And I just think to myself, like, why do you
want to have dirty sound? You're not gonna be able
to hear it, nobody's going to be able to enjoy it,
So just talk to us. I mean, you dealt with
a lot of low budget indie films, Like we're talking
low budget any filmmaking here.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Am I right?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
That people just don't really pay enough attention to the sound.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah, that happens a lot. Actually, thank you Jeff for
the intro. That was like a super intro. Thanks for
the kind words. Yeah, that happens a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
You know.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Sometimes they did dedicate a lot of the budget and
the resources to camera, you know, like, oh, we're going
to get a good camera and we have a great camera.
But then I'm kind of towards the end of the
line on the hiring chain and then it's like they
don't want to kind of dedicate a proper budget for
it because you know, it gets to appoint. That is
(02:38):
a compromise, right, because Okay, I want to work with you,
but you know we could do this way, we could
do that way. And you know it also goes also
for like to have a second person, right, a dedicated
boon operator. Yeah, the movie would benefit so much if
the production cell mixer is just recording getting clean eye
sools thinking creatively, or we will help to enhance the
(03:01):
storytelling and the boom operator is kind of getting the
performance right. He has the mic on people on que
because if you're a one man band, it's like it's
a lot of stuff and it gets to a point
that gets some compromises.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, now you taught you actually taught me that, you know,
because there's a lot of sound mixer recorders. Do I
call it sound mixer sound recorders? I mean, what's the
actual term that we use.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
People say differently, but a production sound mixer usually, and uh,
you know, then sometimes people say a two or boom
operator or depends.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I'm gonna call it production sound mixer, all right. So
there are people in the industry, lots of them, who
work in the indie budget you know, low budget arena
that say I can do boom and record at the
same time. They wear those you know, portable packs, like
you have one of those, and they hold the boom
and they do a one stop shop. But you've said
to me right from the get go, I could do that,
but I don't want to do it because you're not
(03:51):
going to be happy, because you're not going to get
the quality of sound that you get. So spend the
extra money and let's go with a separate boom operator
who actually knows what they're doing, who can mike the
act quickly and we get it proper. And at first
I struggled with that because it's another expense, you know,
relatively big expense. But after seeing what the result was,
it's actually worth it. It's funny you say, you know,
(04:11):
you're kind of the last thought. Okay, let's get the camera,
Let's get the camera team, maybe the gaffer. And you know,
if I'm not mistaken, I think on the last movie,
I think I said to you, are you available these dates?
And you said I'm not. And I think I shifted
the dates just to accommodate you so that I could
have you on.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Not that there's other.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
People in the industry who can't do what you do,
but when you find somebody you trust and like and
you work with and you have good chemistry, it's worth it.
And I think I can't remember if I shifted the
dates a week or two just to accommodate, because I
know how important sound is and I want a good
sound and I don't want to have to mess with it,
and you said, this is what it takes, let's do it.
Your price is fairer. I mean, you're not the cheapest
(04:50):
guy on set or in the industry, but you deliver
good quality. So all right, how did you get into
this industry and why why did you want to do this?
Speaker 2 (04:59):
So goals way back in Brazil.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
I have a bachelor's in advertising and my thesis was
on a film school that just got to my hometown.
So that's that's how I kind of did the first
kind of taste. And I used to work on a
little ad agency. I don't know if you know any
of this.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
I don't. I actually known three films. I haven't asked
you this.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
So so it was a tiny agency, me and the
two owners, and they got to a point, hey, we
have to downsize fire. So okay, I'll try the film
school deal. Like, let's see that seems very interesting. And
the very first time that I, you know, like student films, right,
I I plug a shotgun mic too. I think it
(05:41):
was straight to camera to remember, I found some fascinating
that you point the mics different directions in different two
different things. And I've been playing drums since I was ten,
so I always sound tuned person, you know, and I always.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Enjoyed to work.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
And we've like on a group set up everyone for
a common goal. So I think was a mixture of that,
right of already liking sound and a group of people
for a common goal. And I think that kind of
what attracts me the most because I also do audio
post production, and I did more in the past. Nowadays
(06:18):
people know way more for production sound, which.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I also enjoy. But it's a different it's like.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
A lone journey right by yourself and all that most
of the time. And but yeah, on set, it's a
group of people on common set. And that's that's how
everything started to me. So from that student film, I
started working as a PA and always trying to go
for the sound direction. I never want to be a
camera or anything like that. So I was telling all
(06:44):
sound people, hey, I could help you, and eventually some
people like mentor me, and how everything started.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
For those people who are considering being sound people, you
think they should aim for being you know, the sound
mixer on set or post audio or both. I mean,
would just explain the difference and.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Okay, so yeah, the production sound mixer on set, it's
you know, like on another narrative setup, it's gonna be
the first group of people they're gonna record sound of.
You know, to that point you only have script and
lines and no performance. So we when we start shooting
is the team they're gonna record all the original performance
(07:23):
and all that and the post production sound.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
So we do all the shooting days, then go to
to editorial. So you as actually a production sound mixer.
You're also mixing.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
You know, that's what they're gonna use for the dailies,
what the editor is gonna use.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
So it's also a very important job.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Try to do a really good mix right so the
editor don't have to be worried about and just use
that one mixed track to edit the movie. And later
on they when the editor is done is locked, they
hand off to the audio post production team or person right,
and that person take whatever is added and it's gonna
(08:02):
do all the dialogue editing, and later on they're going
to do the re recording mixing, which is we have
dialogue effects which is sound effect and music and make
everything sound consistent and nice and balanced.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yeah, so much. How much post production work do you
do relative to sound production sound mixer?
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Oh, it depends from one year to the other. But
some year I will say it's like ten percent or
the post sound but never goes more than twenty percent
because I'm always on set and I tend not to
try to get involved in on a post production project.
Will take me a long time because I like both.
But the post production. There's more to back and forth
(08:45):
for approvals, and sometimes the timeframe is a little longer,
right to move the process, and when you're shooting is
like every day is different or like every chunk, every
you know, whatever time period. So yeah, it's I'll say
it varies from ten to twenty percent these days.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Okay, I'm going to say, and maybe this is the
wrong adjective to your the adverb whatever it is to use,
but I'm gonna say that your role on set as
the production sound mixer is to get the dialogue clean.
We want clean dialogue, meaning we're trying to separate all
the other outside sounds so that you can isolate that
dialogue and have it clean as the actors are saying it,
(09:28):
because for those of you who don't know, we're going
to add back everything anyways. We're going to add back
all the sound effects. We're going to add back the
ambient noise in the background. We're going to add everything back.
So the cleaner you can get the dialogue, the better
it is. That's the goal. But on low budget indie production,
as you know, we're not shooting on sound stages where
sound is you know, controlled, We're shooting usually on location.
(09:49):
Often outdoors, you're dealing with airplanes, you're dealing with boats
and harbors and trains in the background and all this
kind of stuff. So tell us some of the sort
of the nightmare situation that you know, you just want
to avoid an indie film production because you're just not
going to get clean sound, you know, like don't shoot
inside an airport for instance.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah, we've never done that, right, Jeff.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
I know enough not to do that. But remember we
were shooting and their planes kept coming. There was we
were in a flight path somewhere.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Yeah, you know San Diego. It's a big flight path.
Sometimes you think you're safe or not.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Location is like always a toss because.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Sometimes you're thinking, oh, no, this is a quiet neighborhood
and of course that they're going to shoot there.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
The next door neighbors is like the construction.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Right right exactly, they're renovating and like, oh.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
The dogs are super excited right here. So it's like
it's a.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Fact something's gonna happen, so whatever you are. But yeah,
so locations, Yeah, there are some tough locations as like
you know, Cloture Airport or.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
You know, the ocean.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
The thing is like the tough part is when you
try to portray something that is not what you see. Right,
You're like, oh, this is a beautiful house, but it's
right next to the freeway, so you're fighting that. Like
you're in the backyard beautiful scenery, but you're fighting all that.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
So it's the hardest way because when you're in front
of the ocean is.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
And you expect we're going to add it back anyways.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yeah, and it bleeds a little, but it's not a problem,
right Yeah, And it's like a common bed.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So when you're in.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Tough locations, you already have like I try to have
a conversation. Hey, you know, like these are the possible
outcomes or problems or not problems, like sound events that
may happen, and.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
We go through the day. Right.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
So, but when you're outside and it's really noisy, you
have to rely a lot on the love mics and
the moon sound better and natural. But when you're ex
tears and it's a tough one, you have to rely
a lot on the love and you just have to
make sure you do a good job because you're hiding it, right, So.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
You're always using both. You're using a boom mic, a
top kind of getting more natural ambient sound, and a
lavalier is on all the main characters that have dialogue,
you put labs on them.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Yes, yes, And even at least seems like like this
is a tough environment to fly boom. Don't even fly boom.
I always do because it sounds more natural, right, even
if it's not going to use that much, the editor
or the postperson could always punch in a little bit
of that.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
So always do both.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
So when you say you're mixing, you're mixing sort of
between the boom and the labs and the levels of
the labs compared to each other.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Okay, So people who are doing sign a location scouting
or directors or something like that, what should they be
looking out for because they're not really thinking sound, are
they They're thinking look, yes, I mean you're in you know,
so give us a tip, you know, and I've worked
with you enough to know what to expect now, But
just be cognitive, like stand at a location and listen.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yes, so something like everyone is watching. Jeff is pretty
good about it. He brings me to scouts. Sometimes people
do not bring sound to scout, and then when you.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Get there, like, oh okay, we have all this to
deal with.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
And you know, when sound directors and everyone and the
producers bring your sound mixer to the scout because.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
When he says the scout the locations scout.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
The location scout be prior shooting because you know, there's
you know, when you're by yourself and you're like the producer,
you're the director, you're thinking a lot of things, right,
you know, the logistics or the visuals and you know
all that, and then when you bring a sound person,
they're going to have like their own perspective, like okay,
I could see the generator here, we have their conditioning.
(13:40):
We start asking questions, we have control over this. I
hear a buzz here, and all the refrigerators sometimes you
have like refrigerators that are hidden inside closet and you
figure out like on take seventeen. So yeah, if you
bring a sound person to the scout, that helps. But
if you're by yourself, and I understand, the whole budget
(14:02):
like we were talking about in the film, is just
trying to also tune that part about.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
The sound right. Sometimes it could be.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
A beautiful location, but you know it could be a
rough place to record sound. And I understand sometimes it's
a unique look and you will go for it, but
sometimes you have like a better option. It's kind of similar,
but it will be a little better for sound and
other aspects.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Do you know that expression that a lot of people use.
Some people joke about it, but a lot of people
actually use it and say we'll fix it in post.
I don't love that. I don't believe in that. So
fixing it in post when it comes to sound is
often doing ADR, like alternate dialogue replacement where you bring
an actor in and you didn't get their lines clean
on set because airplanes were flying over whatever the case was,
(14:47):
and then you got to they got to say their
lines again, matching it to this pace and the I
just feel like you never get it right. I mean,
there's some people are really really good at it, but
it takes a lot of effort and time, and actors
aren't always in the moment the same as their performance.
So I don't love ADR. I try to avoid it,
like the plague, just because I just feel like it
(15:08):
never really matches well. Like I would rather take extra
time on set to get it right if we possibly can,
then fixing it in posts. But a lot of people
say we'll fix it and post. What's your experience with that?
Speaker 3 (15:20):
So, yeah, the whole DR thing, I'm with you. Like
the actor right there in the moment, they already like
shooting for a day. They're in the character when they're
going to do the ADR is like a year from
now or like you know, and they have to kind
of tried to get back to.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
That remember what they were feeling.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Yeah, so it's a really complex and and you know,
it's a different environment and you're trying to match is like,
there's a lot of cons onto it. But I understand
sometimes you get I don't know, like we haven't never
done movie that has a lot of fans or something
that is obnoxiously loud, but sometimes people working in movies
that had that kind of stuff, and we did one
(15:58):
for the visuals, Let's try to do one for safety,
you know, turn the fans out and just you know,
we could do like a variation that could be a
good one, you know, or it could be more usable
sometimes than the ADR.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
But there's something that you taught me also that that
makes a lot of sense, is that you've said sometimes
to me, I mean quite often actually you'll say to me,
it's gonna be too tough to get this dialogue as
clean as I want it. So let's shoot the scene
and then let's go right away and find a quiet room,
isolate the actors and have them do adr right there
on set, even though it's not an ADR sound studio
(16:33):
or anything like that, but they're in the moment, they
know their lines, the scene just happened, and you're right,
it's just better to do it that way. I think
it makes more sense. Now it doesn't exactly match, but
sometimes it's better than you're gonna get after the fact.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Yeah, it's like a safety, right, they just did it,
and okay, we did the scene.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Now we're gonna everyone do a company move.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
So we just go really quick with the actor right there,
do some variations of the line that they just said.
And sometimes you know, it could be like on the
other person coverage and you could get that line. So
it's like a it's a gold nugget that you could use.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, you just you have, like you said, you have
a safety you have just in case you need it,
and some you often do. Actually. Yeah, So now I
don't think it's you're gonna feel this way on my
sets because I have a super lot of respect for
what you guys do on the sound department, but on
a lot of indie, low budget indie films, you're the
guy who has to say, okay, we needed again, or
hold on stop or hold everybody hold because the plane's
(17:30):
going over and you're you're causing a lot of delay
and time, which is important because you're wasting your time
because you can't use the take anyways. But do you
feel like people get aggravated with you. I mean, you
are a nice guy and you can always say it
with a smile, but still you are slowing the shootdown often.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Yeah, Sometimes, you know, like on a longer project, like
a feature or like a multiple days project, you kind
of have to pick your battles sometimes, right, so like
oh that, like you you.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Already said it.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
That wasn't perfect, but it's usable, you know, Like I
don't want to hold everyone just because of this one
little aspect of the sound, you know, but sometimes you
have to pick your better like that was not good
and we I have to speak up and do my part,
and that would be the director's decision like okay, we're good,
or like okay, let's do it, because I just have
(18:22):
it's a lot about communication, right. You don't want them
to find out later all the problems. But sometimes you
have to pick your battles because sometimes they will stop
giving to you if you do like every five day,
because every scene you ask for that.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
So right, okay, they're gonna say enough is enough, we
need to keep moving. You're being too much of a perfectionist.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Yeah, so you have to pick your battles, like, yeah,
that was not usable, and I have to speak up
and go straight to the source, so to you or
the first eight second idis or whatever you know.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
But like you know you're saying, like on your said,
I love working with you because you're pretty good.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
And you always ask me before I say cut, usually
or certainly after I say cut, but usually before I
say cut, I say it to Scott, who's the cinematographer.
Are we good? He says good? And then I say beta,
are we good? And then you often say let's do
it again, or we need one more or we're good.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yeah. Sometimes I'll live it to you. I'll do a
little bit lucky.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, you say it now, but that's chemistry, And you know,
sometimes I say, shit, we have to do it again.
That's too bad. You know, I really like that take
blah blah blah. But you know, you're listening to things
that I'm not listening for. You're hearing things because you're
wearing your headphones, and I mean I'm wearing headphones too,
but I'm listening for story dialogue. You're listening for outside
sounds and stuff like that. But I mean it does
(19:40):
make a difference. I mean, I agree with you. Better
that we correct it and find it on set, then
give it to an editor and they get frustrated and
we can't use something, or we have to try to
correct it after the fact. It's way harder to correct
it and post, so anybody who's listening will figure it
out and post, or we'll fix it and post. Try
to avoid that as much as possible. Honestly, it's so
aggravating to do it and way more costly by the way,
(20:02):
having everybody on set and doing it right there. I mean,
you don't have to bring the actors back and book
the studio and do this and do that, so it
actually is is better. So what would you say the
most difficult part of your job is? Like, what is
the most aggravating or challenging part of your.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Job, like what we're just saying about pick your battles.
Sometimes that could be a tough one, right, But I
think sometimes other people don't know what it takes or
a little bit of education. So you have to be
really good about communication. And sometimes on the moment you
don't have time to explain a lot, but you just
have kind of be really good about communication and try
(20:41):
to get your message across why you need something.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
That could be tough sometimes, right because you're we are
like we're behind and all that, so sometimes you have
to be kind of really quick and you have to
make decisions really quick too if should I point that
out or not. And sometimes it's a technical aspect. Sometimes
the level is not working. Sometimes it's the range of
the equipment of the lab system, so it could be
(21:07):
different things. But yeah, it comes out sometimes with like
a technical challenge, but a lot is I think it's
like communication by that it's like in every group environment
set right.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
So you know what I also also always get a
laugh out of is that you and the boom people,
you know, your assistant are You're always reaching down people's
shirts to stick the wires and the labs, you know,
and all these beautiful women, and you got to excuse me,
do you mind if I reach down your shirt to
put the lab in? But people, you're so respectful and
so professional. You know, nobody gives you a hard time
(21:44):
about that, do they No, Like.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
It's it's a it's like they're a professional actors and
actress so they know, right. So it's it's more sometimes
easier to approach them then like someone like if you're
doing like a corporate job and it's a CEO or
like especially like female like and like you have to
kind of explain yourself and.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
You kind of give them on tutorial.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
They do everything like professional actors and actors, they kind
of hey, you know, go ahead, and but then it's
like it's easier to put a mic on them. But
sometimes you have to do readjustment. So you have to
be pretty good on like you just go when you
really have to, you know, to adjust because that could
be tiring for the talent. It's right when when you're
(22:30):
I have to readjust the mic so many times.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah, But and there's so many situations, like there's so
many styles like summer clips, right, so if you have
that situation where you can actually clip it that's the
easiest obviously, but then you sometimes you have to stick it.
Sometimes you have to put it to the side, the
shoulder that this, I mean all the stuff I've seen
you do, you know, underneath the buttons and all this
kind of stuff. Whereas you know, it's funny because I
go to a lot of theater, live theater and the mics.
(22:53):
They don't try to hide the mics as much as like,
you know, narrative film, you're going to hide the mic.
You don't want anybody seeing that.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Laugh.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
I've seen situations where you said, you know, we can't
hide it. It's not going to work because of the
wardrobe that they're wearing, and you just go boom. But
in live theater, you know, you see it on their head,
you see it on their side, you see it everywhere,
and nobody cares because they know it's a mic, Whereas
in a movie you'd never do that. It's too bad
because you get way cleaner sound in live theater. I mean,
you know, it's much easier to do that, not try
(23:21):
to hide the mic. Yeah, you put it the right spot.
So if you were to say you get in on
product I mean, you know, in my productions, you come
in early. You're one of the first people I hire.
Have you ever had the desire to actually make an
indie feature yourself?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
I was just thinking about that. I think.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Not a feature, because I think that's a lot I'll
start with short films you're seeing myself making like that.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Because what I'm going to say to you is, you know,
what advice would you give to indie filmmakers in terms
of if they want to make a feature? Like you know,
there's a lot of things I talk about in terms
of finance and organization and all the stuff that I
talk about all the time, right, but you're very involved
with one of the most important technical elements of the
film hearing it. If somebody's saying, Okay, I gotta I'm
(24:10):
gonna make a feature. Often you say, like people don't
think about the sound until after when you're on set.
What should they be thinking about leading into it? I mean,
like one of the things you said is take your
sound mix or do it location scouting. I one hundred
percent agree with that.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yes, yeah, I think it's like you were pretty good
about it, and that like it's thinking since the beginning.
That is a really important aspect of the filmmaking of
the whole process, like that's an important element, like they
all are, right, But I think like when you put
that in your mind, like okay, I should bring sound
to the conversation on on like scouting and early on
(24:49):
giving them the script and and things like that, and
also like budget wise, right, so not like I after
thought like oh I burn all the money, I have
just this for sound. Right, So if you dedicator or
your resources, that will help you also. But I understand
when you're like doing the indie filmmaking that you have
(25:11):
a limited amount of budget, but you know, kind of
like what I said in the beginning, like Okay, you
don't have the budget, but you're able to bring a
production sell mixer already thinking of having a dedicated boon
operator even though if it's apprentice or it's better to
have someone that knows, not like a PA that is
going to be doing this, but someone that realized even
(25:33):
though they're starting, they could be their apprentice or something
that's like you're gonna have like a department, not like
a one man band trying to do like everything on
their own, because you're going to get the compromises right.
They're recording, like how are the levels let me boom
at the same time, Like you know, I've done it.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
We all do it.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
But like when it's like a narrative like it's you
kind of have to slow down and not have like
that kind of mentality of.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
To just you know, skim things and compromise it.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
You know, it's funny, I'll be honest with you. So
sometimes I say to myself, should I take Beto on
the location scout? Because I know I know exactly what
he's gonna hear. He's going to hear those boats going by,
he's going to hear the train in the background. He's
going to hear all the time, and he's going to
tell me, don't lose this location. And I'm going to
want to use the location. It's almost like I prefer
not to bring you because you're going to tell me
(26:23):
what I already know. But you know, you and I
have kind of found this balance place where you know
that I am going to compromise certain things because I
want other things right, Like I want a certain look
on the location. So even though the sound's going to
be not as clean as you want it, because that's
your job and you're only focus basically it'll work, and
(26:43):
you'll figure out a way to make it work. We
could tell endless stories about how many times you have
to wait, wait, wait, wait wait, you know for certain
things which every every shot has that every single shoot,
I mean, our style is, I mean, you know, I'm
going to share this with the audience that I don't
cut the camera. I just let it run and I
say okay, ready, and you count it down. Usually you know, okay,
(27:04):
everybody ready five four, three, two one, and we go
because the camera's already running, because you don't want to
have to reslate and redo all that kind of stuff.
When because when you're in a tough sound situation, you
got to be in the moment. You got to be prepared.
You've got to grab it literally within the ten or
fifteen second window that you have. And so you're good
that way. I mean you're I think we're Meumian's got
(27:24):
are a good team that way in terms of figuring
those things out and knowing full well that we have
to just be ready and just grab it right there.
And so so that works out well because as a director,
I'm telling you, sometimes you do get aggravated as like gosh,
come on, seriously, can't we figure out a way to
make this sound better? You know, even though you know
you can't. You know, you can't stop a train from
(27:46):
running in the background. Any final thoughts, Beto, in terms
of people who are thinking of being going into the
sound side of the business.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Or yeah, I think like if if you're a really
interesting sound, you know, do your research, watch videos, study
and all that. But I think it's really important, especially
when you're starting out trying to find a mentor or
offer yourself to be their utility of boom operator, because
you learn so much from other mixers, right, because you're
(28:15):
going to get to a point that it's just you
or like you're the mixer getting hired. But when you're
starting out, you have the chance to learn so much
from other people, like you know, for me, I learned
so much like when I boom for other people in
the past, and I take that until this day. So
it's if you're an interesting sound, it's one advice I'll
(28:40):
give it to you.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yeah, I think that's good advice. Just learn from the best.
So Beto, thank you for first of all delivering really good,
clean sound on my movies, but secondly agreeing to take
the time to be a guest on the show. I
think a lot of people underestimate the value of sound,
and they shouldn't because it's just so you know. I
often say that if I had to choose between sound
(29:03):
and visuals in a movie, I think I'd choose sound.
Between the dialogue and the movie. I think the story
is told between the dialogue and the music. The music
creates sort of that emotional feeling. The dialogue obviously tells
the story. The picture shows stuff, but the sound in
some ways and more important in my estimation. So thank
(29:24):
you very much for your time and for being a
great teammate on our shoot, and I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Thanks for having me, Jeff, was a pleasure talking to
you and all the projects we work in the past,
and it was an honor that you consider having me
here on your podcast.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
And more to come, Beto, more to come. Alrighty, alrighty, okay, thanks,
thank you. Okay, Well, you just heard it from the expert,
and I said, heard it. Because sound is so important,
you got to hear it. As Beto said, you need
to take the time, spend the money to do it properly,
because if you don't have good sound, you don't have
a good movie. Remember, if you have questions you want
(30:03):
more details on everything, you can always email me at
Jdebrett at devrettmedia dot com. I look forward to hearing
from you. See you next time.
You want to make a great movie, you got to
be able to see it, and you got to be
able to hear it. Today's guest is a professional sound
recorder and mixer. He's the guy who makes everybody able
to hear the movie properly. If you want to be
a successful indie filmmaker, you need to know a lot
about not just the production of movies, but the business.
(00:22):
We are going to tell you the truth and reality
of what really happens in the indie film business. Right today.
We have Beto Cabrel and he and I have worked
on many movies together. When you find somebody who's really
good at doing the sound recording and the mixing, you
(00:42):
keep going back to them because you want your movie
to sound good. And Beto has earned my trust many
many times over because he just knows what he's doing
and he does it really well and always keeps a
smile on his face. Beto, welcome to the show. Thank
you very much for coming on and sharing all your
experiences and thoughts with our audience. We've done three movies together,
(01:04):
three I think so far right and truth being known,
I mean, I'm not sure I'd even ever look for
anybody else because I like your style. I like how
quick you move. I like when you stop me and say, Jeff,
we need to do that again. You are a perfectionist
within the means, like not perfect perfect. Like you'll say
to me sometimes when we're shooting, you'll say, Okay, I'll say,
(01:26):
how was it. You'll say it could be better? But
it's usable. And you see a director when they're moving
at the speed I move at, likes to hear that
kind of thing. But sometimes you'll say to me, we
need to do it again, And I respect that, So
I like that a lot. All right, So listen, I
think a lot of indie filmmakers underestimate the importance of
recording sound properly, and nobody really wants to spend the
(01:47):
money to do it at the level you do it.
And I just think to myself, like, why do you
want to have dirty sound? You're not gonna be able
to hear it, nobody's going to be able to enjoy it,
So just talk to us. I mean, you dealt with
a lot of low budget indie films, Like we're talking
low budget any filmmaking here.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
Am I right?
Speaker 1 (02:02):
That people just don't really pay enough attention to the sound.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
Yeah, that happens a lot. Actually, thank you Jeff for
the intro. That was like a super intro. Thanks for
the kind words. Yeah, that happens a lot.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
You know.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Sometimes they did dedicate a lot of the budget and
the resources to camera, you know, like, oh, we're going
to get a good camera and we have a great camera.
But then I'm kind of towards the end of the
line on the hiring chain and then it's like they
don't want to kind of dedicate a proper budget for
it because you know, it gets to appoint. That is
(02:38):
a compromise, right, because Okay, I want to work with you,
but you know we could do this way, we could
do that way. And you know it also goes also
for like to have a second person, right, a dedicated
boon operator. Yeah, the movie would benefit so much if
the production cell mixer is just recording getting clean eye
sools thinking creatively, or we will help to enhance the
(03:01):
storytelling and the boom operator is kind of getting the
performance right. He has the mic on people on que
because if you're a one man band, it's like it's
a lot of stuff and it gets to a point
that gets some compromises.
Speaker 1 (03:12):
Yeah, now you taught you actually taught me that, you know,
because there's a lot of sound mixer recorders. Do I
call it sound mixer sound recorders? I mean, what's the
actual term that we use.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
People say differently, but a production sound mixer usually, and uh,
you know, then sometimes people say a two or boom
operator or depends.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
I'm gonna call it production sound mixer, all right. So
there are people in the industry, lots of them, who
work in the indie budget you know, low budget arena
that say I can do boom and record at the
same time. They wear those you know, portable packs, like
you have one of those, and they hold the boom
and they do a one stop shop. But you've said
to me right from the get go, I could do that,
but I don't want to do it because you're not
(03:51):
going to be happy, because you're not going to get
the quality of sound that you get. So spend the
extra money and let's go with a separate boom operator
who actually knows what they're doing, who can mike the
act quickly and we get it proper. And at first
I struggled with that because it's another expense, you know,
relatively big expense. But after seeing what the result was,
it's actually worth it. It's funny you say, you know,
(04:11):
you're kind of the last thought. Okay, let's get the camera,
Let's get the camera team, maybe the gaffer. And you know,
if I'm not mistaken, I think on the last movie,
I think I said to you, are you available these dates?
And you said I'm not. And I think I shifted
the dates just to accommodate you so that I could
have you on.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
Not that there's other.
Speaker 1 (04:29):
People in the industry who can't do what you do,
but when you find somebody you trust and like and
you work with and you have good chemistry, it's worth it.
And I think I can't remember if I shifted the
dates a week or two just to accommodate, because I
know how important sound is and I want a good
sound and I don't want to have to mess with it,
and you said, this is what it takes, let's do it.
Your price is fairer. I mean, you're not the cheapest
(04:50):
guy on set or in the industry, but you deliver
good quality. So all right, how did you get into
this industry and why why did you want to do this?
Speaker 2 (04:59):
So goals way back in Brazil.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
I have a bachelor's in advertising and my thesis was
on a film school that just got to my hometown.
So that's that's how I kind of did the first
kind of taste. And I used to work on a
little ad agency. I don't know if you know any
of this.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
I don't. I actually known three films. I haven't asked
you this.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
So so it was a tiny agency, me and the
two owners, and they got to a point, hey, we
have to downsize fire. So okay, I'll try the film
school deal. Like, let's see that seems very interesting. And
the very first time that I, you know, like student films, right,
I I plug a shotgun mic too. I think it
(05:41):
was straight to camera to remember, I found some fascinating
that you point the mics different directions in different two
different things. And I've been playing drums since I was ten,
so I always sound tuned person, you know, and I always.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Enjoyed to work.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
And we've like on a group set up everyone for
a common goal. So I think was a mixture of that,
right of already liking sound and a group of people
for a common goal. And I think that kind of
what attracts me the most because I also do audio
post production, and I did more in the past. Nowadays
(06:18):
people know way more for production sound, which.
Speaker 2 (06:20):
I also enjoy. But it's a different it's like.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
A lone journey right by yourself and all that most
of the time. And but yeah, on set, it's a
group of people on common set. And that's that's how
everything started to me. So from that student film, I
started working as a PA and always trying to go
for the sound direction. I never want to be a
camera or anything like that. So I was telling all
(06:44):
sound people, hey, I could help you, and eventually some
people like mentor me, and how everything started.
Speaker 1 (06:51):
For those people who are considering being sound people, you
think they should aim for being you know, the sound
mixer on set or post audio or both. I mean,
would just explain the difference and.
Speaker 3 (07:01):
Okay, so yeah, the production sound mixer on set, it's
you know, like on another narrative setup, it's gonna be
the first group of people they're gonna record sound of.
You know, to that point you only have script and
lines and no performance. So we when we start shooting
is the team they're gonna record all the original performance
(07:23):
and all that and the post production sound.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
So we do all the shooting days, then go to
to editorial. So you as actually a production sound mixer.
You're also mixing.
Speaker 3 (07:33):
You know, that's what they're gonna use for the dailies,
what the editor is gonna use.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
So it's also a very important job.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
Try to do a really good mix right so the
editor don't have to be worried about and just use
that one mixed track to edit the movie. And later
on they when the editor is done is locked, they
hand off to the audio post production team or person right,
and that person take whatever is added and it's gonna
(08:02):
do all the dialogue editing, and later on they're going
to do the re recording mixing, which is we have
dialogue effects which is sound effect and music and make
everything sound consistent and nice and balanced.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Yeah, so much. How much post production work do you
do relative to sound production sound mixer?
Speaker 3 (08:22):
Oh, it depends from one year to the other. But
some year I will say it's like ten percent or
the post sound but never goes more than twenty percent
because I'm always on set and I tend not to
try to get involved in on a post production project.
Will take me a long time because I like both.
But the post production. There's more to back and forth
(08:45):
for approvals, and sometimes the timeframe is a little longer,
right to move the process, and when you're shooting is
like every day is different or like every chunk, every
you know, whatever time period. So yeah, it's I'll say
it varies from ten to twenty percent these days.
Speaker 1 (09:05):
Okay, I'm going to say, and maybe this is the
wrong adjective to your the adverb whatever it is to use,
but I'm gonna say that your role on set as
the production sound mixer is to get the dialogue clean.
We want clean dialogue, meaning we're trying to separate all
the other outside sounds so that you can isolate that
dialogue and have it clean as the actors are saying it,
(09:28):
because for those of you who don't know, we're going
to add back everything anyways. We're going to add back
all the sound effects. We're going to add back the
ambient noise in the background. We're going to add everything back.
So the cleaner you can get the dialogue, the better
it is. That's the goal. But on low budget indie production,
as you know, we're not shooting on sound stages where
sound is you know, controlled, We're shooting usually on location.
(09:49):
Often outdoors, you're dealing with airplanes, you're dealing with boats
and harbors and trains in the background and all this
kind of stuff. So tell us some of the sort
of the nightmare situation that you know, you just want
to avoid an indie film production because you're just not
going to get clean sound, you know, like don't shoot
inside an airport for instance.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Yeah, we've never done that, right, Jeff.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
I know enough not to do that. But remember we
were shooting and their planes kept coming. There was we
were in a flight path somewhere.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Yeah, you know San Diego. It's a big flight path.
Sometimes you think you're safe or not.
Speaker 2 (10:27):
Location is like always a toss because.
Speaker 3 (10:29):
Sometimes you're thinking, oh, no, this is a quiet neighborhood
and of course that they're going to shoot there.
Speaker 2 (10:34):
The next door neighbors is like the construction.
Speaker 1 (10:37):
Right right exactly, they're renovating and like, oh.
Speaker 2 (10:41):
The dogs are super excited right here. So it's like
it's a.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
Fact something's gonna happen, so whatever you are. But yeah,
so locations, Yeah, there are some tough locations as like
you know, Cloture Airport or.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
You know, the ocean.
Speaker 3 (10:58):
The thing is like the tough part is when you
try to portray something that is not what you see. Right,
You're like, oh, this is a beautiful house, but it's
right next to the freeway, so you're fighting that. Like
you're in the backyard beautiful scenery, but you're fighting all that.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
So it's the hardest way because when you're in front
of the ocean is.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
And you expect we're going to add it back anyways.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Yeah, and it bleeds a little, but it's not a problem,
right Yeah, And it's like a common bed.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
So when you're in.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Tough locations, you already have like I try to have
a conversation. Hey, you know, like these are the possible
outcomes or problems or not problems, like sound events that
may happen, and.
Speaker 2 (11:39):
We go through the day. Right.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
So, but when you're outside and it's really noisy, you
have to rely a lot on the love mics and
the moon sound better and natural. But when you're ex
tears and it's a tough one, you have to rely
a lot on the love and you just have to
make sure you do a good job because you're hiding it, right, So.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
You're always using both. You're using a boom mic, a
top kind of getting more natural ambient sound, and a
lavalier is on all the main characters that have dialogue,
you put labs on them.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Yes, yes, And even at least seems like like this
is a tough environment to fly boom. Don't even fly boom.
I always do because it sounds more natural, right, even
if it's not going to use that much, the editor
or the postperson could always punch in a little bit
of that.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
So always do both.
Speaker 3 (12:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
So when you say you're mixing, you're mixing sort of
between the boom and the labs and the levels of
the labs compared to each other.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Okay, So people who are doing sign a location scouting
or directors or something like that, what should they be
looking out for because they're not really thinking sound, are
they They're thinking look, yes, I mean you're in you know,
so give us a tip, you know, and I've worked
with you enough to know what to expect now, But
just be cognitive, like stand at a location and listen.
Speaker 3 (12:56):
Yes, so something like everyone is watching. Jeff is pretty
good about it. He brings me to scouts. Sometimes people
do not bring sound to scout, and then when you.
Speaker 2 (13:06):
Get there, like, oh okay, we have all this to
deal with.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
And you know, when sound directors and everyone and the
producers bring your sound mixer to the scout because.
Speaker 1 (13:17):
When he says the scout the locations scout.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
The location scout be prior shooting because you know, there's
you know, when you're by yourself and you're like the producer,
you're the director, you're thinking a lot of things, right,
you know, the logistics or the visuals and you know
all that, and then when you bring a sound person,
they're going to have like their own perspective, like okay,
I could see the generator here, we have their conditioning.
(13:40):
We start asking questions, we have control over this. I
hear a buzz here, and all the refrigerators sometimes you
have like refrigerators that are hidden inside closet and you
figure out like on take seventeen. So yeah, if you
bring a sound person to the scout, that helps. But
if you're by yourself, and I understand, the whole budget
(14:02):
like we were talking about in the film, is just
trying to also tune that part about.
Speaker 2 (14:09):
The sound right. Sometimes it could be.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
A beautiful location, but you know it could be a
rough place to record sound. And I understand sometimes it's
a unique look and you will go for it, but
sometimes you have like a better option. It's kind of similar,
but it will be a little better for sound and
other aspects.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Do you know that expression that a lot of people use.
Some people joke about it, but a lot of people
actually use it and say we'll fix it in post.
I don't love that. I don't believe in that. So
fixing it in post when it comes to sound is
often doing ADR, like alternate dialogue replacement where you bring
an actor in and you didn't get their lines clean
on set because airplanes were flying over whatever the case was,
(14:47):
and then you got to they got to say their
lines again, matching it to this pace and the I
just feel like you never get it right. I mean,
there's some people are really really good at it, but
it takes a lot of effort and time, and actors
aren't always in the moment the same as their performance.
So I don't love ADR. I try to avoid it,
like the plague, just because I just feel like it
(15:08):
never really matches well. Like I would rather take extra
time on set to get it right if we possibly can,
then fixing it in posts. But a lot of people
say we'll fix it and post. What's your experience with that?
Speaker 3 (15:20):
So, yeah, the whole DR thing, I'm with you. Like
the actor right there in the moment, they already like
shooting for a day. They're in the character when they're
going to do the ADR is like a year from
now or like you know, and they have to kind
of tried to get back to.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
That remember what they were feeling.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Yeah, so it's a really complex and and you know,
it's a different environment and you're trying to match is like,
there's a lot of cons onto it. But I understand
sometimes you get I don't know, like we haven't never
done movie that has a lot of fans or something
that is obnoxiously loud, but sometimes people working in movies
that had that kind of stuff, and we did one
(15:58):
for the visuals, Let's try to do one for safety,
you know, turn the fans out and just you know,
we could do like a variation that could be a
good one, you know, or it could be more usable
sometimes than the ADR.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
But there's something that you taught me also that that
makes a lot of sense, is that you've said sometimes
to me, I mean quite often actually you'll say to me,
it's gonna be too tough to get this dialogue as
clean as I want it. So let's shoot the scene
and then let's go right away and find a quiet room,
isolate the actors and have them do adr right there
on set, even though it's not an ADR sound studio
(16:33):
or anything like that, but they're in the moment, they
know their lines, the scene just happened, and you're right,
it's just better to do it that way. I think
it makes more sense. Now it doesn't exactly match, but
sometimes it's better than you're gonna get after the fact.
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Yeah, it's like a safety, right, they just did it,
and okay, we did the scene.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
Now we're gonna everyone do a company move.
Speaker 3 (16:53):
So we just go really quick with the actor right there,
do some variations of the line that they just said.
And sometimes you know, it could be like on the
other person coverage and you could get that line. So
it's like a it's a gold nugget that you could use.
Speaker 1 (17:08):
Yeah, you just you have, like you said, you have
a safety you have just in case you need it,
and some you often do. Actually. Yeah, So now I
don't think it's you're gonna feel this way on my
sets because I have a super lot of respect for
what you guys do on the sound department, but on
a lot of indie, low budget indie films, you're the
guy who has to say, okay, we needed again, or
hold on stop or hold everybody hold because the plane's
(17:30):
going over and you're you're causing a lot of delay
and time, which is important because you're wasting your time
because you can't use the take anyways. But do you
feel like people get aggravated with you. I mean, you
are a nice guy and you can always say it
with a smile, but still you are slowing the shootdown often.
Speaker 3 (17:48):
Yeah, Sometimes, you know, like on a longer project, like
a feature or like a multiple days project, you kind
of have to pick your battles sometimes, right, so like
oh that, like you you.
Speaker 2 (17:59):
Already said it.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
That wasn't perfect, but it's usable, you know, Like I
don't want to hold everyone just because of this one
little aspect of the sound, you know, but sometimes you
have to pick your better like that was not good
and we I have to speak up and do my part,
and that would be the director's decision like okay, we're good,
or like okay, let's do it, because I just have
(18:22):
it's a lot about communication, right. You don't want them
to find out later all the problems. But sometimes you
have to pick your battles because sometimes they will stop
giving to you if you do like every five day,
because every scene you ask for that.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
So right, okay, they're gonna say enough is enough, we
need to keep moving. You're being too much of a perfectionist.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Yeah, so you have to pick your battles, like, yeah,
that was not usable, and I have to speak up
and go straight to the source, so to you or
the first eight second idis or whatever you know.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
But like you know you're saying, like on your said,
I love working with you because you're pretty good.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
And you always ask me before I say cut, usually
or certainly after I say cut, but usually before I
say cut, I say it to Scott, who's the cinematographer.
Are we good? He says good? And then I say beta,
are we good? And then you often say let's do
it again, or we need one more or we're good.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Yeah. Sometimes I'll live it to you. I'll do a
little bit lucky.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
Yeah, you say it now, but that's chemistry, And you know,
sometimes I say, shit, we have to do it again.
That's too bad. You know, I really like that take
blah blah blah. But you know, you're listening to things
that I'm not listening for. You're hearing things because you're
wearing your headphones, and I mean I'm wearing headphones too,
but I'm listening for story dialogue. You're listening for outside
sounds and stuff like that. But I mean it does
(19:40):
make a difference. I mean, I agree with you. Better
that we correct it and find it on set, then
give it to an editor and they get frustrated and
we can't use something, or we have to try to
correct it after the fact. It's way harder to correct
it and post, so anybody who's listening will figure it
out and post, or we'll fix it and post. Try
to avoid that as much as possible. Honestly, it's so
aggravating to do it and way more costly by the way,
(20:02):
having everybody on set and doing it right there. I mean,
you don't have to bring the actors back and book
the studio and do this and do that, so it
actually is is better. So what would you say the
most difficult part of your job is? Like, what is
the most aggravating or challenging part of your.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Job, like what we're just saying about pick your battles.
Sometimes that could be a tough one, right, But I
think sometimes other people don't know what it takes or
a little bit of education. So you have to be
really good about communication. And sometimes on the moment you
don't have time to explain a lot, but you just
have kind of be really good about communication and try
(20:41):
to get your message across why you need something.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Right.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
That could be tough sometimes, right because you're we are
like we're behind and all that, so sometimes you have
to be kind of really quick and you have to
make decisions really quick too if should I point that
out or not. And sometimes it's a technical aspect. Sometimes
the level is not working. Sometimes it's the range of
the equipment of the lab system, so it could be
(21:07):
different things. But yeah, it comes out sometimes with like
a technical challenge, but a lot is I think it's
like communication by that it's like in every group environment
set right.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
So you know what I also also always get a
laugh out of is that you and the boom people,
you know, your assistant are You're always reaching down people's
shirts to stick the wires and the labs, you know,
and all these beautiful women, and you got to excuse me,
do you mind if I reach down your shirt to
put the lab in? But people, you're so respectful and
so professional. You know, nobody gives you a hard time
(21:44):
about that, do they No, Like.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
It's it's a it's like they're a professional actors and
actress so they know, right. So it's it's more sometimes
easier to approach them then like someone like if you're
doing like a corporate job and it's a CEO or
like especially like female like and like you have to
kind of explain yourself and.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
You kind of give them on tutorial.
Speaker 3 (22:08):
They do everything like professional actors and actors, they kind
of hey, you know, go ahead, and but then it's
like it's easier to put a mic on them. But
sometimes you have to do readjustment. So you have to
be pretty good on like you just go when you
really have to, you know, to adjust because that could
be tiring for the talent. It's right when when you're
(22:30):
I have to readjust the mic so many times.
Speaker 1 (22:32):
Yeah, But and there's so many situations, like there's so
many styles like summer clips, right, so if you have
that situation where you can actually clip it that's the
easiest obviously, but then you sometimes you have to stick it.
Sometimes you have to put it to the side, the
shoulder that this, I mean all the stuff I've seen
you do, you know, underneath the buttons and all this
kind of stuff. Whereas you know, it's funny because I
go to a lot of theater, live theater and the mics.
(22:53):
They don't try to hide the mics as much as like,
you know, narrative film, you're going to hide the mic.
You don't want anybody seeing that.
Speaker 2 (22:59):
Laugh.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
I've seen situations where you said, you know, we can't
hide it. It's not going to work because of the
wardrobe that they're wearing, and you just go boom. But
in live theater, you know, you see it on their head,
you see it on their side, you see it everywhere,
and nobody cares because they know it's a mic, Whereas
in a movie you'd never do that. It's too bad
because you get way cleaner sound in live theater. I mean,
you know, it's much easier to do that, not try
(23:21):
to hide the mic. Yeah, you put it the right spot.
So if you were to say you get in on
product I mean, you know, in my productions, you come
in early. You're one of the first people I hire.
Have you ever had the desire to actually make an
indie feature yourself?
Speaker 2 (23:37):
I was just thinking about that. I think.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Not a feature, because I think that's a lot I'll
start with short films you're seeing myself making like that.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Because what I'm going to say to you is, you know,
what advice would you give to indie filmmakers in terms
of if they want to make a feature? Like you know,
there's a lot of things I talk about in terms
of finance and organization and all the stuff that I
talk about all the time, right, but you're very involved
with one of the most important technical elements of the
film hearing it. If somebody's saying, Okay, I gotta I'm
(24:10):
gonna make a feature. Often you say, like people don't
think about the sound until after when you're on set.
What should they be thinking about leading into it? I mean,
like one of the things you said is take your
sound mix or do it location scouting. I one hundred
percent agree with that.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Yes, yeah, I think it's like you were pretty good
about it, and that like it's thinking since the beginning.
That is a really important aspect of the filmmaking of
the whole process, like that's an important element, like they
all are, right, But I think like when you put
that in your mind, like okay, I should bring sound
to the conversation on on like scouting and early on
(24:49):
giving them the script and and things like that, and
also like budget wise, right, so not like I after
thought like oh I burn all the money, I have
just this for sound. Right, So if you dedicator or
your resources, that will help you also. But I understand
when you're like doing the indie filmmaking that you have
(25:11):
a limited amount of budget, but you know, kind of
like what I said in the beginning, like Okay, you
don't have the budget, but you're able to bring a
production sell mixer already thinking of having a dedicated boon
operator even though if it's apprentice or it's better to
have someone that knows, not like a PA that is
going to be doing this, but someone that realized even
(25:33):
though they're starting, they could be their apprentice or something
that's like you're gonna have like a department, not like
a one man band trying to do like everything on
their own, because you're going to get the compromises right.
They're recording, like how are the levels let me boom
at the same time, Like you know, I've done it.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
We all do it.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
But like when it's like a narrative like it's you
kind of have to slow down and not have like
that kind of mentality of.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
To just you know, skim things and compromise it.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
You know, it's funny, I'll be honest with you. So
sometimes I say to myself, should I take Beto on
the location scout? Because I know I know exactly what
he's gonna hear. He's going to hear those boats going by,
he's going to hear the train in the background. He's
going to hear all the time, and he's going to
tell me, don't lose this location. And I'm going to
want to use the location. It's almost like I prefer
not to bring you because you're going to tell me
(26:23):
what I already know. But you know, you and I
have kind of found this balance place where you know
that I am going to compromise certain things because I
want other things right, Like I want a certain look
on the location. So even though the sound's going to
be not as clean as you want it, because that's
your job and you're only focus basically it'll work, and
(26:43):
you'll figure out a way to make it work. We
could tell endless stories about how many times you have
to wait, wait, wait, wait wait, you know for certain
things which every every shot has that every single shoot,
I mean, our style is, I mean, you know, I'm
going to share this with the audience that I don't
cut the camera. I just let it run and I
say okay, ready, and you count it down. Usually you know, okay,
(27:04):
everybody ready five four, three, two one, and we go
because the camera's already running, because you don't want to
have to reslate and redo all that kind of stuff.
When because when you're in a tough sound situation, you
got to be in the moment. You got to be prepared.
You've got to grab it literally within the ten or
fifteen second window that you have. And so you're good
that way. I mean you're I think we're Meumian's got
(27:24):
are a good team that way in terms of figuring
those things out and knowing full well that we have
to just be ready and just grab it right there.
And so so that works out well because as a director,
I'm telling you, sometimes you do get aggravated as like gosh,
come on, seriously, can't we figure out a way to
make this sound better? You know, even though you know
you can't. You know, you can't stop a train from
(27:46):
running in the background. Any final thoughts, Beto, in terms
of people who are thinking of being going into the
sound side of the business.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Or yeah, I think like if if you're a really
interesting sound, you know, do your research, watch videos, study
and all that. But I think it's really important, especially
when you're starting out trying to find a mentor or
offer yourself to be their utility of boom operator, because
you learn so much from other mixers, right, because you're
(28:15):
going to get to a point that it's just you
or like you're the mixer getting hired. But when you're
starting out, you have the chance to learn so much
from other people, like you know, for me, I learned
so much like when I boom for other people in
the past, and I take that until this day. So
it's if you're an interesting sound, it's one advice I'll
(28:40):
give it to you.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
Yeah, I think that's good advice. Just learn from the best.
So Beto, thank you for first of all delivering really good,
clean sound on my movies, but secondly agreeing to take
the time to be a guest on the show. I
think a lot of people underestimate the value of sound,
and they shouldn't because it's just so you know. I
often say that if I had to choose between sound
(29:03):
and visuals in a movie, I think I'd choose sound.
Between the dialogue and the movie. I think the story
is told between the dialogue and the music. The music
creates sort of that emotional feeling. The dialogue obviously tells
the story. The picture shows stuff, but the sound in
some ways and more important in my estimation. So thank
(29:24):
you very much for your time and for being a
great teammate on our shoot, and I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (29:31):
Thanks for having me, Jeff, was a pleasure talking to
you and all the projects we work in the past,
and it was an honor that you consider having me
here on your podcast.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
And more to come, Beto, more to come. Alrighty, alrighty, okay, thanks,
thank you. Okay, Well, you just heard it from the expert,
and I said, heard it. Because sound is so important,
you got to hear it. As Beto said, you need
to take the time, spend the money to do it properly,
because if you don't have good sound, you don't have
a good movie. Remember, if you have questions you want
(30:03):
more details on everything, you can always email me at
Jdebrett at devrettmedia dot com. I look forward to hearing
from you. See you next time.
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