The Rapid Rise of AI in Indie Filmmaking

This episode explores the explosive acceleration of artificial intelligence within the film industry, focusing on how quickly the tools, capabilities, and creative possibilities are evolving. Jeff welcomes back guests David Vognild and Daniel Coté—two creators deeply immersed in AI-driven production—to unpack what’s changed since their last conversation and why every update seems to become outdated within months.

Together, they examine how AI is reshaping everything from story development to image generation, lip-syncing, character consistency, and even full narrative production. David shares his hands-on experience building a feature-length film using tools like Nano Banana, Sora, and Veo 3.1, while Daniel discusses creating episodic content and the challenges of realism, movement, and multi-character scenes. Both highlight the speed at which the technology improves—faster than creators can complete their projects.

The conversation expands into the broader implications of AI: the cultural pushback, the legal and ethical debates around likeness rights, and how younger generations are responding to AI’s growing presence. They discuss the shifting boundaries between real and synthetic performers, the potential for AI twins, and the concerns surrounding misinformation, deepfakes, and the future of authenticity in media.

Finally, Jeff, David, and Daniel look ahead at what the next few years may hold—whether AI-generated films will become indistinguishable from traditional productions, how creators might adapt, and what it means for filmmakers seeking to tell stories without million-dollar budgets. Despite uncertainty, one conclusion is clear: AI is not slowing down, and filmmakers who understand it will be better prepared for the industry’s rapidly approaching future.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Today we are going to do another deep dive into
probably the most pertinent subject in the film world, if
not the world, and that is AI, artificial intelligence. It
is changing at breakneck speed, and I feel like every
time I do an episode on AI, I have to
redo it because the changes happen so quickly. So I

(00:23):
have invited two guests back, David Vagnold and Daniel Kote,
who are experts in AI, who I'll introduce in a minute,
and we're going to kind of update where AI is at.
I trust that you know. We'll have to do another
episode in probably another two or three months because of
the speed of which technology is changing. But anyways, AI

(00:45):
is changing the world, is changing the film business, and
we all have to pay attention. So here we go.
If you want to be a successful indie filmmaker, you
need to know a lot about not just the production
of movies, but the business. We are going to tell
you the truth and reality of what really happens in

(01:06):
the indie film business. Hello, everybody, Welcome back to Indie
Filmmaking Truth and Reality. I'm your host, Jeff Deverett, and
today I have invited back David Vagnold, who is an
independent filmmaker who uses AI to make his films, and

(01:27):
Daniel Kote, who is an expert in AI development and
using systems, and we did an interview a few months ago.
As we were editing it, I realized that a lot
of it was out of date because I literally have
to publish it the next day just at the speed
at which AI is changing. So we're going to talk
about that. We're going to talk about some new developments

(01:47):
and just how AI is affecting filmmaking, not only the
making of films, but the distribution of films the whole industry.
The way I describe AI, especially in the academic world
where I teach at the two film schools I teach at,
I say, you got to think of AI as a
freight train that has left the station and is traveling

(02:09):
at one hundred miles an hour down the tracks. If
you're standing on those tracks waving your hand saying slow down,
slow down, you're just gonna get run over. As much
as you like it or don't like it, or as
a creator you're into it or you're not into it,
this train is moving at breakneck speed and it isn't
slowing down anytime soon. If anything, it might start to

(02:30):
speed up even more. And so my advice is you
got to get on board. You've got to understand what's
going on. I'm not saying you necessarily have to use
all the tools or embrace them all, but you just
need to know what's happening and sort of stay involved
because AI is going to change the world, not just
the film business. It's changing the whole world, and it's

(02:51):
changing it quickly. And as we talk today, as I
said in my opening, I'm not even sure that this
episode will be pertinent in a couple of months from now.
It could be that the technology even changes more. So, Daniel,
I'm going to start with you. Do you mind reintroducing
yourself to everybody and telling us what you do, who
you are, and how you're involved in the world of
AI and filmmaking.

Speaker 2 (03:12):
Yeah, thanks, Jeff. So my name is Daniel. I've been
you know, doing some corporate videos for the last ten years,
so with me and my partner Martin. We have a
company in Montreal in Canada, and we have been doing
you know, AI, playing around with AI for the last
you know, maybe two years now, and at first it

(03:33):
was you know, curiosity and right now it's really become,
you know, something we use in our daily work. So
basically images are become you know, better and better, and
videos are it's the same. So basically it's like we're
going to use it a lot more. I think more
and more in you know, corporate videos and also you know,

(03:57):
narrative filmmaking.

Speaker 1 (03:58):
I think, okay, have you made any narrative films yet
with AI?

Speaker 2 (04:04):
Yeah, we made. We started a series last year, so
we're really slow on producing and we did our first episode,
I think it was last November. It's called Save the World,
and it was a four or five minutes episode, and
we've just launched the second one, you know, another five
four or five minutes, and you can see if you
go see the two episodes, you're going to see the

(04:26):
big difference between the first one and the second one
because of the technology. So yeah, it's became you know,
becomes a lot more you know, crisp images. The quality
is better, and we still have a lot of problems
we can talk about it, but yeah, it's it's getting
better and better.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
Where can we see it? What's the name of your company?

Speaker 2 (04:47):
Just search Imagine Art Films in YouTube. You can find
our channel.

Speaker 1 (04:52):
Okay, imagine art films for those who want to see it. Okay, David,
I met you several years ago. You contacted me and
said that you're gonna be making a feature film using AI.
I mean this is two years ago probably, And I said, okay,
does that even exist today? I'm a believer one hundred

(05:12):
percent because you recently sent me sort of an updated
version of what you've been working on. So why don't
you tell us about your journey?

Speaker 3 (05:19):
Yeah? Sure, Yeah, I actually spent a year almost to
the date, Jeff.

Speaker 1 (05:22):
That was a year.

Speaker 3 (05:23):
Okay, it feels like reach out.

Speaker 2 (05:24):
I wrote it.

Speaker 4 (05:25):
I wrote a screenplay, and I was like kick some
you know, reviewing it with you and you kind of
actually I think we both joined talked about AI, and
you know, to get the millions of dollars you need
now to produce a and create a film is highly unlikely,
and there's a lot of no's in this industry.

Speaker 3 (05:41):
So went down the rabbit hole of AI.

Speaker 4 (05:43):
And just learning as much as I can about it,
and it just keeps on evolving, and it's getting more
and more cinematic, and we're getting to a point where
almost I think we can create a full length movie
using nothing bay Ai.

Speaker 3 (05:54):
So I think the.

Speaker 4 (05:54):
Doors and the boundaries and the walls are breaking down,
and you know, this gives more people to have a
story that want to tell, an opportunity to put it
out there. And the reason why I'm really interested in you, Jeff,
is because I think there's going to be a flood
of movies coming in. There's a lot of slop, there's
a lot of not grade AIGHTI I think it's all
about this story, but the marketing, the distribution, getting eyeballs

(06:15):
on it, that's the biggest challenge. I think that's the
biggest thing that you can offer and helping us, guiding
us through this process. I've watched every single one of
your videos and it's been very helpful. It also helps
with understanding marketing, like when you're creating this, like whoa
who's the audience going to be? Who's going to actually
watch this? And then try to make it not look Ai,
make it look cinematic. People hopefully will forget they're actually
watching an AI movie. And I think it's going to

(06:36):
open a lot of doors for a lot of people
that are interested, and especially in the indie industry. And
even if you don't want to go full AI like
w're ongoing. I think there's a lot of opportunity to
you know, storyboard or add VFX, or there's a lot
of great.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
Benefits to it.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
Okay, I can almost assure you that there's going to be.
As soon as people start to embrace the tools, understand
them a little bit better, you know, and and and
and the kings get smooths out, which I think is
going to happen very quickly, there will be a deluge
of like tons and tons of new films, all right,
because it levels the playing field, it makes it more affordable,

(07:11):
or you know, almost I don't know, you can almost
do it for free. I guess, sitting at your computer
make a full length feature film, whereas before you have
to spend hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars to
do more or less what you're going to be able
to do at your computer. Now, whether that's good or bad,
you know, a lot of creators have a lot of
issues with that. And I'm not going to pass judgment
one way or the other. I'm just going to say
it's going to happen, so there will be tons and

(07:33):
tons of content being created in the future. Some of
it obviously will be better than others, more entertaining because
there's still a storytelling element, although the AI is going
to help write the stories as well. Obviously, what you're
saying is right, David. You know, I'm involved in trying
to help people organize the clutter and decide what they

(07:54):
want to see and why they want to see it.
So that which is marketing and distribution. But that will
talk about afterwards. But let's just let's get into the tools,
all right, David, what did you make? You sent me
a new video recently, like yesterday about you know, the
most up to date version of what you're working on,
and you're using some new tools now like Sora too,

(08:16):
and I think nano banana. So can you just talk
about what you're using and then Daniel you'll comment on
sort of what else is out there.

Speaker 4 (08:22):
Yeah, so nano banana is used for editing. And I
used to create stuff in a tool called comfy uy
with Lauras and it's that was at the time probably
the most creative way to have consistent characters and environments.
But then with nano banana, you can take littally a
picture of yourself and you can storyboard it and do
same environment in different scenes and it looks photo realistic

(08:43):
and then you import those into I'm using VO three
point one. It just released, and it's great for lip sync,
which has been one of the most challenging things, so
you can have real environments with lip sync. And then
Sora to what I've noticed is great acting. It feels
like a real movie. The biggest problem is that's you
can't do consistent character. You can do one character, or
you can have friends join, so it's not you can't

(09:05):
build extra characters on top of it. But those three
tools right now are giving you pretty much everything you
need to start creating. There's other tools out there, but
those are the kind of the three, and those are
the ones that came out last week, and that's the
biggest challenges. You start building out, you know, I get
twenty thirty minutes into a movie and then a new
tool comes out, then you have to start all over
because it's so much better.

Speaker 3 (09:24):
And it's just that's kind of the way the game is.

Speaker 4 (09:26):
So I'll start this journey, I'll probably get twenty five
minutes in, then a new tool will come out.

Speaker 1 (09:31):
So Sora is the program from Open Ai that people
have created chet GPT correct, Okay, Daniel, what else is like,
what are the other major tools that you're seeing out
there right now that people are using? And of course,
you know we could be dating ourselves by even talking
about this stuff.

Speaker 2 (09:48):
Yeah, vial Tree, maybe it is right. Vialtree has been
a game changer because it's so realistic. Sora was you know,
the first one that came out last year, and you know,
it was good, but Valtry just you know from Google,
they just they're amazing. So basically the problems we had
before was creating consistent characters. That was the first, you know,

(10:11):
big part and this this it's not perfect yet, but
I think it's getting there. Uh And like David, David said, yeah,
the lip saying, you know, it's much better. So basically,
you want to have this realistic look. I think AI
still looks AI. You know, I'm not optimistic maybe about

(10:31):
you know, seeing a movie from Hollywood in the next
you know months. I think it's going to take a
couple of years. But with the speed that's going, it's
going to be you know, companies, they're not going to
be able to ignore this. I think there's a lot
of backlash right now. But I think people are going

(10:51):
to get used to and I think it's going to
be a you know, the AI is still there.

Speaker 1 (10:57):
Yeah, okay, that's a segue into where I want to go.
So a couple of weeks ago, I was teaching a
class on intellectual property. In one of my film classes.
I showed them a video of Tilly Norwood. We know
who Tilly Norwood is, so she is a full AI actress.
She doesn't exist, but there's all kinds of videos online

(11:20):
of her on talk shows doing scenes of movies, and
she was created by a company called Particle six in
the UK. I've been on their website. I've looked at
this and it's pretty good. Daniel. I mean, have you
seen this Tilly Norwood stuff?

Speaker 2 (11:36):
Yeah, sure, seen some good things. I think some less,
you know, not that all the images are great. I
think David can do. What I've seen from David, you know,
pretty realistic too. So basically, I don't think there's this
character is like something magical. I think it's when I

(11:57):
saw the news about you know, her and you know,
companies in the US and things like that, you know,
I was kind of it's kind of weird, you know,
as a news. So basically, I don't I don't get
it that she gets signed into a studio. I think
it's more a marketing you know thing. I'm not sure

(12:17):
about that it.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
Could be, but yeah, I mean the news the news.
The reason she made the news is because a major
city I think it was CA or some big studios
thinking of signing an AI actress on a contract. And
she's not even real, Like we're not even talking to
a real person. It's just the likeness and image of
this AI actress. David, have you seen the Tilly Norwood stuff?

Speaker 3 (12:38):
Yeah, I would say it's the five hundred dollars question.

Speaker 4 (12:40):
And the reason why I'm going to say that is
just about sixty thousand follower Instagram followers, So if you
were to pay her to Marketer, you'd pay about five
hundred bucks. So that's that's I mean, You're going to
see a ton of these coming out. And the interesting
thing is, I think the person that created that character
has a background in this industry. So if they push
out content that peopleeople like and enjoy and they grows,

(13:03):
I think then there's a possibility maybe that's a character
that people want to see. But right now, I think
I would say, hire who over that marketing team is
because to get this global, I mean, so many of
us are have similar characters, but this one person just
blew up, and so I would say, whatever they did
from a marketing level, that's capture that. That's probably the
most important piece of that. But yeah, I would say
in probably two months, you probably never hear that character, would.

Speaker 3 (13:25):
Be my guess.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
Okay, fair enough, fair enough, And as Daniel said, maybe
it's the fact that they somehow concocted that she's going
to be signed by an agency, like that's sort of
what made the news, right, because you're right, there's probably dozens,
if not hundreds, of these characters are already out there. I
thought the videos were pretty good, Like I looked at them,
I saw the newscasts, and then I went onto their

(13:46):
website and I saw the kind of the promo video
that they did for her, And again, you're probably right,
there's many more that I haven't seen. But David, let
me ask you this. We've talked about this before, you
and I. Do you think the world is ready to
watch non human actors?

Speaker 3 (14:03):
I don't know. That's a great question.

Speaker 4 (14:05):
This is where I think actually instead of having a
fully AI creation. So like in my movie, I'm one
of the stars. I have like my own character. I
can do my own I can actually do my own acting,
which I'm not very good at, I know.

Speaker 1 (14:16):
But you you photographed yourself and made yourself an AI character.

Speaker 4 (14:21):
Yeah, and so I think that'll be the thing that
you see as people actually putting themselves into it and
then you're a real person, you're just you don't have
I mean, they already do it today, Like if you
watch any superhero movie, it's all green screen because all
this AI is pretty much doing.

Speaker 3 (14:33):
It's a similar situation here.

Speaker 4 (14:35):
So I think that's where people would because you're a
real person really doing the acting and you can actually
have that performance there. And I think that's people would
enjoy that because they're already watching something similar today and
enjoy it. So I think as long as the story's there,
the editing's really good. Just like anything you watch cartoons
right now, right, people enjoy those. It's people will enjoy entertainment.

Speaker 3 (14:57):
That's good.

Speaker 4 (14:57):
And I think, yeah, I think people are just fearful
of it because it is so human realistic, so it's
kind of it's scary almost in some things, but any
new technology has always gone through this kind of mud,
and they have to go through this until people see
it and they enjoy it.

Speaker 3 (15:12):
So I think people will enjoy it. But there again,
there's can.

Speaker 4 (15:14):
Be a lot of slop. There's a lot of negative
stuff people will see. There's be a lot of stuff
when you now you came and watch anything on your
phone and know if it's.

Speaker 3 (15:21):
Real or not real, or why it was showing the
video and it was fake, I was like, that's not real.

Speaker 1 (15:25):
You can't no idea. It's it's hard to tell these days.
But Daniel, you said earlier that there's a lot of pushback.
I know there's a lot of legal pushback. I mean,
you know the whole strikes last year with the writers
strikes and the actors strikes, where a lot of it
had to do with the intellectual property rights of copying
or having your AI models being trained by actual people

(15:46):
and their images. But what are they pushback are you
hearing about?

Speaker 2 (15:50):
I feel in you know, people around me, not just
into our industry, but a lot of people mostly everybody
use chagipt from people I know, but nobody talks too
much about it. I went to a runway meeting a
meetup last week, last couple of months, and the first
one is in Montreal, and there were no young people there.

(16:14):
I feel, you know, talking to my kids, I feel
like the young people are more reluctant about AI. I'm
not sure if it's, you know, just an impression, but
I feel there's a lot of pushback about the younger
generation about and when we publish some videos we have.
I don't know if David you have the same, but
you know, we had a lot of comments, negative comments,

(16:35):
so a lot of good comments, but a lot of
comments that really harsh, you know about so pushback from
you know, the people. I think the AI look, I
think they don't like the AI look. I think it's
like for now.

Speaker 1 (16:51):
But for now, we know that's going to evolve. We
know that technology evolves a breakneck speed and it's going
to get much better every day. It gets better. We've
seen that. But the pushback I'm talking about is is
replacing humans. That's the pushback. It's maybe replacing jobs, like
taking jobs away, taking opportunities away, taking creativity away. Because

(17:14):
we're talking AI, not only you know, the animation, the actors,
We're talking the writing, if it goes in the direction
that I'm seeing it going, it could mean that there's
no more film production. It's all done on computers right now.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
It's a tool. So maybe in some you know, five years,
ten years from now, I think there's there may be
you know, a production that don't use any humans. But
I don't see that in the short terms, because you know,
when you start, you know, writing something with AI, you know,
you have to curate it, you have to make it

(17:49):
your own. It's like a good tool, but it's not
you know, perfect, And the same thing when you create images,
you have to create a lot of images to get
some you know, cinematic realistic images, and I don't see AI,
you know, being able to do that in the next
couple of years. So basically, yes, they're going to be
a shift, but I think it's in all the industries.

(18:10):
You know, people are gonna you know, people who don't
know how to use AI. I think they're going to
have a problem.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
Yeah, no, no, it's happening in every industry. I mean,
you know, I have a lot of friends who are
lawyers because of my legal background, and listen, there's ways
to integrate AI in a very cost effective way, you know,
writing briefs and stuff, the kind of the tedious, manual
labor stuff that people don't like to do. It's more
maybe a little more cost effective and quicker and more
accurate sometimes. I mean you have to check it, like

(18:39):
you know. We're at the tipping point right now. So
a lot of people say, no, he still it makes
errors and it doesn't do it properly. And I agree
there are, but that's going to get corrected. I mean,
and especially as machine learning is, as AI teaches AI
to do stuff, it's gonna That's why it's going to
be exponentially quick. Not that I'm an advocate one way
or the other. I'm just saying, this is the world.
I mean, I don't think my generation, it's gonna be

(19:01):
my kids generation. As you said, my kids are fully
embracing it. I can tell you that. I mean, all
of my students are. I mean, all my students are
writing all their papers with AI. And I'm okay with that.
I'm actually okay with it because I'm gonna start greeting
their papers with AI too, And I told them that,
so fair is fair, right, But David, you are you're
creating a full movie. You just said that you created

(19:23):
yourself as an AI character.

Speaker 3 (19:25):
Yeah, I put myself, my wife, my friends.

Speaker 1 (19:27):
Then it so yeah, I saw your whole families. Is
that your dog by the way.

Speaker 3 (19:31):
Yeah, it's my dogs. I put my dog in it too.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
It's a beautiful dog. I mean, you know, and that dog.
The dog looked great as an AI character.

Speaker 4 (19:37):
That you just take real pictures of your animal, use
nano banana, and I can put it in the pipelines
and you just do a start an end frame and
then it looks cinematic and that's like nothing. That's just
like that's I think it's gonna be mind blowing. And
then all the graphics you can put you can you know,
you can put any car you want to put in
your you could be flying any plane. Yeah, you know,
it's just it's it's a fun. It's a fun hobby.

(19:58):
It's it's it's truly enjoyable.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
Okay, but but you have I mean, first of all,
you had AI helped you write the script.

Speaker 3 (20:04):
Kind of yeah, so that's the original. I didn't.

Speaker 4 (20:06):
So I have zero background and in any of this,
and I just got inspired and so I started writing
the screenplay and I used chat, ChiPT and I didn't
know it actually did this, so I didn't know about
the formatting, and so I had to feed it in
and it started just helping me write it. It does
go rogue a lot, so like Daniel was saying, you
have to be on top of it. You can use
as a tool, but it's don't let it take over

(20:28):
if you want it to be your own story. Just
you can only feed it maybe five pages at a time.
Sometimes it'll start adding stuff that you don't want. You
need to have the vision the whole story you want
to tell kind of in your head, and then you
have to kind of drive it there. And sometimes I
get so frustrated with that to say it's easier just
to do it myself, and sometimes that's the way I go.
But it did help me create a full one hundred
and ten page screenplay that that's what I'm basing the

(20:49):
story off of. Okay, So it as a tool, it
definitely helped. I don't think I would have been able
to do it without it, to be honest.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
So okay, so now you take that tool and you
start to making it into a full length feature, of
which you showed me some of it. At what point,
how far out. Do you think that your film will
be finished using one hundred percent AI and actually looks
good that an audience would enjoy it. We talked.

Speaker 4 (21:12):
I'll say earlier I thought it would be end of
this year. I'll be realistic. I don't think that's going
to happen. I think it'll be about one year from
this date it'll be fully done. I think this year
I can complete probably twenty to twenty five minutes of
with the tools that we have today, I'd like to
release that to the world, get some feedback. It's not
going to be perfect. I think it will be entertaining

(21:33):
and cinematic, so and it's kind of holiday base, so
it's right around the holiday window. I'll put that out
there and then I can get feedback on it, see
if people like it that I can continue to work
on the story. Then I think by June July, maybe
August of next year, I could be done and hopefully
maybe you know, get it distributed somewhere out there. Worst case,
it'll be on YouTube, and that's that's I think that's

(21:54):
a realistic goal. But then the tools are changing so fast,
so I could I could take that back tomorrow and
say yeah, it'll be the end of the year. It's
just hard to say. It's just it's evolving very quickly.

Speaker 1 (22:03):
And do you feel like that you have special skills.
I know you're in the front. You come from the
technology world.

Speaker 4 (22:09):
I'm in technology, and I think that helps. So my
day to day job is I know, you know, I
take products from my life cycle from conception to in
market to you know, all the way to end of life,
so I kind of know how the flow goes. And
filmmaking is very similar, like understanding the story, the how

(22:30):
to produce it, how to do the whole like editing
piece of it, you know, you know, the sound, the coloring,
all that stuff. So I've learned all of this stuff,
so I kind of understand how to do the full
and I've done multiple videos. I just never release anything.
I just keep practicing and developing my skills. Enter contest.
I think that's a great thing if people are interested
in it, because a lot of them, like two minutes
are under kind of builds up your skills. Even if

(22:51):
you don't win, at least you get feedback and you
can see what other people are doing. I think that's
a great way.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
But yeah, but you don't need to have a tech background.
I mean, listen, I use chol GP all the time
and it's easy. It's very user friendly, and I think
a lot of these video tools are going to be
equally as easy. I think you've got to know how
to prompt them. Right now, I know the right things
to say.

Speaker 3 (23:11):
But you can ask Chat to prompt for you too.
You just tell that's true.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, but I said, I was at a seminar of
Google's Gemini, which is their version of AI fast. Unbelievable,
the tools and everything. I mean, everybody's got it. It's
just everybody's competing in this market in a big way. So, Daniel,
so you're you said that you think it's a few
years out right, But tell me a few years out

(23:36):
what it's going to look like. What's going to happen
in a few years if you know, I'm not sure.
I agree it's a few years, but let's say it is.
But two years is not a long time. You blink
in two years past. What's the world going to look
like in two years?

Speaker 2 (23:49):
The real question you ask is will people will Will
there be a backlash about people listening to a movie
done in pure AI? I don't add the answer to that.
I'm not sure about that. So it's going up for
the next few months and years. I think maybe we
can have an audience for that kind of movies at
some point, I don't think there's going to be people

(24:11):
are going to be able to notice. And that's going
to be another another thing to think about, because at
some point, do you tell people this is an AI
movie or this is traditional movie which is real actors
or part of it are AI. You know, how do
you manage that? But once it's really you cannot tell
the difference. Yeah, I think it's going to be if

(24:35):
people you know, are into it. I think it's going
to be a lot of production there.

Speaker 1 (24:39):
But as David said, like we've been kind of looking
at iterations of AI for years. I mean every superhero
movie is sort of an iteration of AI because human
beings can't do they can't become superheroes, they can't do
all that crazy stuff. Listen, one of my favorite movies
of all time, which has to be at least fifteen
years old, maybe twenty at this point, is the movie

(25:00):
three hundred, which was done fully animated years ago and
not even sophisticated animation. But it looked good enough and
I bought into it and you know, it felt real
to me. And that was you're talking, you know.

Speaker 2 (25:14):
Because it had a style, you know, specific style. So yeah,
people who like that style and in three hundred, you know,
they they're on board. But right now there's the AI look.
And if we you know, right now people you know
I hear from you know, when they look at AI,

(25:35):
something's wrong, you know, they look at the image. If
you want this to make something real, you know, realistic,
like David is doing, so you have to you know,
get some characters, you have to get some environments. Everything
has to look you know, pretty much as the same
as the reality. This is where I think we're going,
but we're not there yet. And also for you know, physics,

(25:58):
it's easy to do some shots at shots are most
easy to do. Movements, character movements. We tried in one
of our episode to make a character open a car
door or the door of a car and you know,
get into the car, and it was impossible. You know,
tools are right now getting there. But still it's just

(26:19):
one character with you know, a specific mapmen, But if
you have five characters in one scene talking to each
other at the same time, you know, it's really challenging.
So yeah, I think it's going to go there.

Speaker 1 (26:33):
Yeah, but I feel like what a comment like that
is going to be datedself within six months, Like in
six months from now, I feel like the technology will
be so easy to do exactly what you just talked about.
And again I'm not an AI expert. I'm just guessing.
Just I know that from the last time we talked,
the difference between what we were talking about in that
episode versut this episode is night.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
But struggle. We still struggle, you know, each day we
would we do AI and we still struggle with some
Sometimes it's really stupid things, you know, making a character
do something. It's it's really hard sometimes to do with
all the latest tools. So it's getting better and the
look is getting better, more realistic if you want to

(27:15):
do that style. But still it's like we struggle, struggle
again and again to do some basic things. So this
is where I think it's it's harder than we think,
you know, to make reality because if you want to
do a bunch of you know, small movies, small you know,
with no actors and things like that, and you can

(27:37):
do pretty realistic things and you know people are not
going to notice once you're going to do into a
real production. You need to have this consistency of character.
You need to have this consistency of you know, the clothing.
Everything has to be perfect. So this is where it's
it's hard to do. So maybe you see all we
see a lot of things that are amazing, you know AI,

(28:00):
but it's not in a real production environment.

Speaker 1 (28:04):
But David, you know, and I mean this an affectionate way,
what I'm gonna say is like a regular everyday guy. Yeah,
he comes from the tech world, but David, you're just
a regular guy who said I want to make a movie. Yeah,
and you didn't want to spend a ton of money
and hire a big crew and do all this kind
of stuff. And you've embraced these tools and it's coming
along pretty well. I mean some of the scenes you

(28:26):
sent me, I was convinced, especially because you put yourself
into it and your dog and your wife. I mean
it looked real those scenes. The stuff that's working well
are working really well.

Speaker 4 (28:36):
Yeah, that's yeah. And the interesting thing is, like everybody
has the same problem. So all of these big tech
giants are trying to fix that. So lip sync was
the biggest issue, so everybody's trying to fix that right now,
and it's getting better and better. So all these problems
are are good because that's everybody's having the same problems.
The interesting thing, if you watch most videos now, either
the face is completely covered or it'll be a voiceover.

(28:58):
So that's what we're kind of seeing now, and it's
like almost every AI video is a voiceover, and it's like,
we can do better than that. So it's really hard
to get that consistency. But like Daniel said, you will
spend like I'll get stuck on something like opening a carter.
Like you said, you're spending hours just trying to make
this character open a door and it's a silly stuff.
But then you can go blow up a building in
two seconds. It's kind of funny. So you kind of

(29:20):
just have to know what it can and can't do
and kind of go with the punches. But yeah, I
think it'll keep evolving, keep getting better and easier. So
but yeah, anybody's going be able to do this. It's
if you want to put the time dedication into it,
which I think a lot of people will stop. They'll
learn it, they'll do a couple of short clips and
they stop. If you really have the passion, if you're
up at two am doing this and you can't get
this out of your head, then I think anybody can

(29:40):
do it.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah, and listen. I don't want to date the episode
too much because you know, we talked about some of
the platforms, the sores and the nano bananas and stuff
like that that are here today and hopefully we'll continue
to evolve. But there's there's dozens and dozens of others,
probably hundreds of others that are in development right now.
Are any other ones that we should be keeping eye

(30:02):
on that you're I mean, you mentioned that other one,
to forget the name of it.

Speaker 3 (30:06):
I think. I think my one of my favorites is
Company UI.

Speaker 4 (30:09):
That's the open source most that the the tools come
there first. You know, Sora and bo or big big companies,
and they they're great, but Company I can do so
much and it's just keep an eye on that tool
just because it is. You know, there's a whole underground
group of people that are constantly developing and I shouldn't

(30:29):
call them underground, but it's kind of like a small
group of people just constantly building and developing it, and
they're very passionate about it, and they have great resources.
So that's I think if you can learn those skill
sets too, I think that's that's where I'm least. I
constantly learned from them and watch what they're doing, and
they come out with stuff a lot of times before
these big, big tech companies come out with stuff.

Speaker 1 (30:50):
So is the AI world, Daniel gonna go sort of
in the same direction that I'm going to say the
search engine world went in when the Internet was launched,
where all these people came up with big search engines
and some hit and some didn't, and some we know
about today, like obviously Google dominated it. But is that
I mean all these plat I mean, it's got to

(31:11):
be hundreds thousands of people developing AI platforms, right, how
many are going to survive? What's it going to take?

Speaker 2 (31:17):
I think the giants are going to have, you know,
the best platforms. I'm not sure. I see, you know,
some independent productions, maybe some form specific stuff like I
use a platform called ume Hume for narration and dialogues.

(31:38):
I think it's an independent platform. So yeah, so specific
things I think they're going to be you know, a
couple of great platforms for the hard stuff to do,
mostly video. I'm not sure that David, if you agree,
But if you want to do images with your computer
and confy UI, it's okay because you know, most computers
can handle it. Still, you need to have a good computer.

(32:01):
But if you want to do video and a lot
of videos because you have to create a lot, you know,
to create it, then pick the best. You have to
have a really really good computer. So basically most people
won't be able to generate a lot of videos. David,
I would I love to hear you about that.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (32:21):
No, yeah, so I would say that's true. And I
don't think I think everyody's gonna get rid of the computer.
It's all gonna be cloud. Like Comfy just launched company
UI Cloud, so you can go that way. So they
actually have the big computers on the cloud. Then there's
like running Hub that's another one, so there's multiple, And
there's also sites like there's Higgs Field, there's open Art.
Those are one you pay one subscription and you get

(32:42):
access to all the tools. So I think that'll be
growing more and more too. So I don't know growing,
but those tools will be more valuable because you have
one source where you can get everything you need, so
you know, almost every week there's a new update, new tool,
and it's hard to have subscriptions to all of them,
and you don't really want to do that. You want
to be able to try them and stuff. So those
are great, great ways to get your feet wetness.

Speaker 1 (33:01):
But there are always is going to be maybe technology blips,
like as we talk today on this episode, we're using
Zoom when we normally use riverside, which is an AWS app,
and AWS servers are down, which is all cloud based,
so who knows, there's always you know, there's that side
of it too. Now do you guys know about AI

(33:24):
safety and sort of integrating AI into the world safely? Daniel,
you're nodding. People are talking about crazy stuff with AI
applications and how to integrate it into certain industries safely.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
I think depending on the company. There's there's rail guards
for you know, using the likeness of people. So basically
you cannot do you cannot take some picture of you know,
actors and things like that and create them. You can
do it on you know, your own computer and things

(33:56):
like that, but you know, tech giants, you know, like
Google hoping they don't. They don't. They're really strict about that,
and it caused us a lot of problems because sometimes,
you know, you can create a pure AI character and
it looks like, you know, somebody who's real in the
real world, and they're gonna stop the So yeah, I
think they're trying to get but you don't.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
I mean, that's an intellectual property question. You don't necessarily
own your own image, because what happens if you if
there's like a doppel gang or identical somebody who looks
identical to you, And I can tell you case in point,
I actually have an identical twin brother. We look identical.
So do I own the way I look? Does he

(34:38):
own it? Do we mutually own it? And could there
be a third one who looks like us?

Speaker 2 (34:43):
It's a good question and the thing that you're going
to see about. You know, David uses himself as a
character in his movie. But right now, Sora too, just
launch into kind of kind of TikTok platform and you
can use yourself as a character.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
That's my understanding. Is they call it your your AI twin.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
Yeah, you can use yourself. You can create yourself. Back
back a few months ago, it was really difficult and
art to do, we know, with Lauras and things like that.
Right now, you know, you can create your persona with
Sora and the thing that they did. It's like you
can use your friend if your friend did the same thing.
So you can make videos about all your gang, the

(35:27):
people you know. And I think there's going to be
a lot a lot of videos like that. So basically
everybody is going to create their own double and they're
going to create some videos about you know, funny videos
and things like that. So it's not production type Hollywood
style movie, but it's going to be There's gonna be
a lot of content of people using themselves as characters.

Speaker 1 (35:48):
I mean, think about the advantage of that. Like, let's
say you want to have a big social media following
or something like that. Your twin could respond to everybody,
could always be in a good mood, can you know,
be receptive to every comment everything. I mean, there's no
sort of emotion or time frames involved with that. You
could be your AI twin could be responding to tens

(36:11):
of thousands of people in a nanosecond when it takes
a human twenty years to do that.

Speaker 2 (36:18):
Of course, of course there's gonna be a lot. But still,
you know when it's it's when you cannot tell the
difference between somebody and is double. It's going to cause
some problems because you know, people are gonna asking am
I talking to the real Daniel or talking to your double?
And things like that. So it's gonna be funny.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
And you know, Daniel, what do you have to say
about that?

Speaker 3 (36:39):
I'm complete? I mean, David, Yeah, no, I can potally agree.

Speaker 4 (36:42):
I even watch YouTube and I'm like, is this a
real person or is this AI person? That's it that's
going on. It's kind of funny. The other thing to
add on top of it with your AI character, they
can go twenty four to seven, they don't ever sleep,
and they also can do different languages, so you could
Actually I've learned the US market's pretty small, so like,
as I make this movie, I'm already thinking like how
do I, you know, do it in Spanish? How do

(37:03):
I do it? And Chinese? And you know all these
different language like how do I support it? And globally,
So that's that's another thing to considered, like with this
whole trend. But yeah, it's it's it's going to happen
it's just it's.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
So I had originally asked you about sort of the
world of AI safety, like integrating AI safely, we kind
of gravitated into copyright and intellectual property infringement. Listen, in
other industries there's a lot of safety and issues. There's
like AI in the military, AI in government, AI in
big industry. There's a lot of concerns in those worlds.

(37:36):
Are there concerns in the entertainment industry other than intellectual
property rights and copyright infringement.

Speaker 4 (37:44):
Like Daniel's thing, I would use like a probably if
you're creating a movie, you want to probably go with
one of the bigger tech companies because they've hopefully have
done their vetting and you know, have sign off on
all the stuff you create with it because you actually
own it and most of these So I definitely I've
done this, but most of the tools I look at,
look at what they're legally allowed to you know, am
I allowed to post this stuff? Can I can I

(38:04):
actually have like a movie? What what am my restrictions
around that? So I do I do that currently with
what I'm creating. My goal is if I do honestly
produce a full length movie, then I would actually probably
need to hire on a legal as a specialist just
to kind of review it, give me feedback on the
tools I use, and kind of sign off on it,
so I will put a set of money.

Speaker 1 (38:23):
Everybody's thinking this. Everybody's thinking the same thing that I'm
thinking after you just said that, Like, why wouldn't you
just have an AI legal platform review it for you.

Speaker 3 (38:31):
Yeah, they might be available at the time.

Speaker 4 (38:32):
Yeah, you give them twenty bucks and they sign off
and they take accountability. Sure, yeah that's possible, but it's
something to consider because you don't want to. I mean,
like with with Sora too, when they launched, they basically
open the floodgates that they had. You could put any
character you could put. You know, they I don't know
how they got away with it, but you saw all this.
It got flooded, and I think they did it on purpose.

(38:53):
So that's that makes me reluctant to use that company
right off the bat, because they already are, you know,
in violation of.

Speaker 3 (38:59):
So many anything.

Speaker 4 (39:00):
So I'm using it now just for storyboarding, but I
don't know if I'd actually create something with them and
post it just knowing that, you know, you could create
any character like you could put yourself with superheroes that
have IP and stuff like that. They kind of I
think they got in a lot of trouble and handslapped
a week later. They got a ton of pre promotion
from it. But that's that that makes you leery of
what you're gonna what tools you're gonna use. So yeah, yeah,

(39:21):
it's something I think about and consider because obviously, if
you put something out there, you don't want to get
sued or or be violating or putting people's faces that
aren't approved.

Speaker 2 (39:29):
David, I'm surprised that there's a lot of videos out there,
you know, with characters, with main people you know where
you know politicians and you know actors. There's a lot
of videos out there. So basically they use some platforms
to you know, to do this anyway, but they don't
get banned on YouTube. They don't get you know, legal.

Speaker 1 (39:51):
And social media, especially in politics. The stuff I've seen lately,
I mean, first of all, I don't know what's real.
I don't know if it's real people speaking or if
they've just been pirated or dubbed or something and they're
doing crazy stuff that like, I don't know if it's
them wanting to do it to promote themselves or other
people being negative. It's just my problem is I don't

(40:15):
know what's real anymore. I just I'm super skeptical about
everything that I watch, especially on social media, because it's
just so easy to put it up and get away
with it.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
But there's a lot of videos that just are have
that AI look. You know that they're just funny. You know,
they're just some politicians playing around, and you know people
have been publishing them from you know, you know who
I'm talking about, So it's in the news. Well, basically,
I'm not sure if the genie is out, So I'm

(40:48):
not sure if it's ever going to be you know,
if we're going to have a real AI safety that
you know, no ever politicians will be able. We are
not going to be able to do that. I think
it's it's like people are going to have to rely on,
you know, other sources to know if a video is

(41:10):
real or not.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
But Daniel, you're in the world of production, all right,
what direction is your company taking? How much like at
some point do you want everything to be AI or
do you still want to use humans and crews and
all this kind of stuff.

Speaker 2 (41:25):
What's your plan we're going. I think we're going where
it's the most realistic, where the production is the most realistic.
We've played around with you know, Runaway act one and
act two, which is you know, you take a real
actor and you may make a scene and after that

(41:46):
you translate that into AI character. Right now, this technology
is not as good as what you get with you know,
pure AI on Google, let's say Tree. So basically we're
just taking the best there, and I think when the
technology is there, I think there that actors are going

(42:09):
to still be needed because it's really hard to do
some real emotions, and AI can do that in certain ways.
You know, you can prompt it and you can say,
well this person, make this person cry, or make this person.
It's not bad. So if you look at it at
a certain level, you know it seems real. But in
a real production environment, you still need to have a

(42:32):
special you know, magic about the actor. And this is
the difficult part. I think I'm not sure if David
you experienced this, do you use yourself as an actor
or do you prompt you know Google.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
Or yeah I was before, but with VO three point one,
I haven't. So it's weird. You put.

Speaker 4 (42:51):
Now with the new tools, you put first end frame
the same and then I put what I want them
to speak with the emotion, and it actually captures the
motion better than I can personally act. So and even
Soora too does a really good job with acting. It's
just unfortunately because unless, like you said, unless you have
your character or somebody that's already on the platform, the
acting's really good.

Speaker 2 (43:10):
It's just the.

Speaker 3 (43:11):
Character consistency is not there. So that's coming. So I
think I think I would.

Speaker 4 (43:15):
I was actually blown away how good the performance is
and how emotional and like you can say funny lines
actually say sound funny and you can actually feel emotion now,
which you never were able to do that really in
the past, unless what you're saying, Daniel, unless you had
the character portraying it. So I think that's going to change,
or already has changed this last week with those new tools.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
So you know, I mean that that Telly Norwood video
she cried. She cried on a talk show and they
said can you cry? And she started crying and looked
looked real to me like that. The whole that company,
Particle six that created her in the UK, they did
a whole promotional video where every single person on the
video was an AI character talking about the creation of

(43:56):
creating everything looked real like I I. Had they not
said it's AI, I would have never known. And then
you add obviously some music and effects in and make
it cinematic, and I just would not have known. And
were I still feel like at the tip of the
iceberg here.

Speaker 3 (44:14):
I don't know about you, Daniel, but I can tell
what I see it.

Speaker 4 (44:16):
I know it's AI, just maybe because our eyes are
now trained for it, so I can tell.

Speaker 3 (44:21):
So I can tell, like.

Speaker 1 (44:22):
You spend a lot of time on those platforms, David,
with all due respect, I mean you're got a more
trained eye. And Daniel, you too. You're in the business.
I'm you know, I just look at it and I'm
a filmmaker, but I'm just a human being, like an
audience member, and I'm struggling. I'm not sure I can tell.

Speaker 2 (44:43):
You're struggling because I think what you have saw I've
seen is been curated and you can prompt a lot
of you know, different videos in there.

Speaker 1 (44:53):
It's also been edited very.

Speaker 2 (44:55):
Well exactly, so basically this is really different. You can
it was pick and shoes whatever you want, you know,
and this looks good, Let's keep that. And you know,
you can create a video in a real film production environment.
You have a script, you have something, you know what.

Speaker 1 (45:10):
You're doing editing. Also, you're not you're using a fraction
of what you shoot in a movie. Yeah, sure, you're shooting,
you know, an hour footage. You might use two minutes
of it.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
But once you get what you want, this is the
game changer, because right now I don't get what I want.
You know, I want to do a scene with three
characters doing something, you know, having a conversation and back
and forth and things like that. It's really really hard still,
but like you said, maybe in six months, maybe in
a year. I think it's more like two or three years.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Yeah, so it'll be interesting to see the speed at
which this technology starts to evolve more in the meantime.
I mean, do you feel like who is adapting this stuff?
Who is really going at it? I mean, I know
my kids are interested in it. I know all my
students are. I feel like younger people are getting involved.
I mean, David, no disrespect intended, You're not that young,

(46:03):
but you're really involved. So maybe there's a lot of
people your generation who feel like, hey, this is a
way to maybe live their dream at this point in
their life, a dream that may have already passed them
because of money or time or whatever. I mean, David,
what you're feeling on that is it.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
I'm almost the opposite of Daniel. I feel like the
oldest person in the room.

Speaker 4 (46:22):
So whenever I'm the discord, like, I didn't really even
know how to use discord, so I don't learn how
to use accepts.

Speaker 3 (46:26):
Everybody's on, and.

Speaker 4 (46:27):
Everybody that's on there is I would say, in their
early twenties thirties, and that's like most of the people
that I kind of communicate or work with and stuff
are in that range. There are some like I'm in
my late forties, but most everybody that I would say twenty
to thirty. And I think it's just if you're part
of that group, that's who it is. I don't see
too many people that are like in my age that
are looking at this.

Speaker 1 (46:47):
Stuff just because it's too hard to learn it at
that point.

Speaker 3 (46:50):
Or I think they're is not interested yet or they
just don't know about it.

Speaker 4 (46:53):
A lot of people this is like a god I've
learned is this is kind of a small corner group,
like there's not a lot of us that are really
interesting in this. It's growing, but it's you know, you're
talking thousands of people. It's not it's not it's not
hundreds of thousands at this point. It's and you know,
you hear the buzzword AI and stuff and people see
like a little clip but that's all that's kind of
extended and the kind of ends. But yeah, most of

(47:14):
the people, I at least I am aware of our
younger that are into it.

Speaker 1 (47:18):
Okay, So I know that you want to be a filmmaker,
like I mean, that's your dream. And so if given
the choice right now, if I said, you know, somebody
will fund you for whatever you need to make your film,
you know, the traditional way with crews and actors and
all this kind of stuff, or the resources to make
it through AI and you know hopefully that the tools

(47:40):
will evolve enough so you can do it. What direction
would you take?

Speaker 4 (47:43):
I would do AI right now, just less risk, to
be honest with you, just because I know, I know how,
I know how much would cost me.

Speaker 3 (47:49):
I could get it out there. It's it's I think.

Speaker 4 (47:52):
By the time I got a crew, which I would
have no idea how to do like what what you
do day to day, Jeff is like, is beyond what
I think I could copy. But in this little world,
I can control everything and I'm I'm the director. I
know exactly my vision.

Speaker 3 (48:06):
It's contains, Yeah, it's very contained.

Speaker 4 (48:08):
I think if I bring on one hundred people, I
would lose that vision and lose I would get too
too much. And and nice thing with Ai it's it's
you know, you can do it for almost free, like
you know, you're hundreds of dollars and and you can
get it out there and see people like it.

Speaker 3 (48:23):
So I think that's the advantage of it.

Speaker 4 (48:24):
I don't want to spend half a million dollars to
make something that nobody picks up and I lose that investment.

Speaker 3 (48:30):
It just when I would. It just doesn't seem like
the rolls.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
There, which is kind of full circle. Like at the beginning,
you said there's going to be tons and tons more content,
and I agree for that reason that there's not a
huge financial investment. There's a time investment, which probably will
get less and less because the tools will get better,
but there's not that big financial investment of the crew,
the actors, the locations, the equipment, all this kind of
stuff that you need to do traditional filmmaking, which.

Speaker 4 (48:56):
I'd rather take the I would rather take the half
million dollars hire you and put it all to marketing.

Speaker 3 (49:01):
I think that would be a much better return.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
So I appreciate that. I appreciate that. But the marketing
tools are going to become AI generated also.

Speaker 4 (49:08):
I mean, but you have to get you have to
pay to get that like commercial or you have to
pay to get that out there.

Speaker 1 (49:13):
And I think that for now, for now, let's see
what a technology, what direction technology goes in terms of
connecting with the audiences too. There might be like everybody's
looking at different forms of delivery now too. Who knows
what the world is going to look like in ten, fifteen,
twenty years. As as I always say, I mean the
joke I say, and it's not really a joke, it's

(49:35):
you know, at some point, maybe there will be you know,
Elon Musk will come up with like a chip and
I think he has it already where you because I
watched maybe a little too much Black Mirror, where you
put a little chip in the side of your temple
here and you receive all your technology that way.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
Maybe it's already there and we don't know it.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
It could be like it could be, you know, so
I am not assuming anything. Who knows what the future
has and at some point the realities of what are real.
We have even no concept of what it could be.
We can't even dream it up. But maybe the tech
guys can, I mean, Daniel, final words on you know,

(50:13):
on your view of the use of AI going forward.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
I think, like David, I would choose you know, AI
production over traditional production because, like like you said, you know,
we control everything right now, it's really frustrating because we
cannot do what we want exactly. But on the way
there's going to be you know, new tools and everything.
So basically, yeah, I think I'm not sure the really

(50:41):
talented directors right now are you know, playing maybe playing
around with AI, but you know they're not full in.
But when those people because right now what we see
it's a lot of people that are like to play
with AI because of the technology. But when you get
some really good die directors and you know crews and

(51:01):
you know special effects of people playing around with that,
I think there's the results are going to take you know,
another level. So what I see is like when there's
no stigma on the on AI, you know, not as
much as right now. I think it's going to be,
you know, the way to go, and I think people
are going to get used to it, and at some point,

(51:22):
you know, it's they're not going to be able to
do the difference. And maybe, like you said, in ten
twenty years, you know, maybe you're going to open Netflix
and ask I would like to you to create me
a movie with that kind of you know feel, And
maybe it's going to be able to do that. But
I think it's like ten or ten years or more.

Speaker 1 (51:40):
What might not even be Netflix. It might be you
just blink your eyes when it comes in there is
no Netflix. Maybe who knows. It's hard to say, but
here's what I can tell you is there's a lot
of creative Like filmmaking to me is about storytelling and
being creative. I know, I deal with a lot of
indie filmmakers, and I can tell you a lot of
them are super talented, great storytellers, and even though they

(52:00):
didn't get their break, like they're not the Christopher Nolan's
or the Tarantinos or whatever, they're just equally as talented
no offense Nolan and Tarantino. But there's a lot of
talented people out there who are just waiting for to
get a break, and this could be the break. This
could be like, Hey, I don't need a studio behind
me for fifty million or one hundred million dollars so
I can make my epic movie. I'm just going to

(52:22):
make it on my computer, you know, with a team
of computer programmers using AI tools, and it's going to
be just as epic, and I'm going to tell the
story in as compelling a way as these other big
filmmakers because I'm just as talented. That's where I say
that the playing field's going to get leveled. Is that
And you know, and it's always going to boil down
to storytelling, as you said earlier, David, because people want

(52:44):
good entertainment. So if you can't tell a story in
a compelling way or a good story, then nobody's going
to want to watch it. So that I think isn't
going to go away. But what I think is it's
going to allow a lot of very creative people access
to telling good stories at the level that they weren't
able to before. That's the future that's see I.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
Can compare it to music because when I was younger,
music like you have to go to the studios to
record your music and it was expensive. After that, the
you know, the computers and everything, so basically you can
do a record on a music record at home. But
the thing is, even if there's a lot more people

(53:30):
creating music right today, I'm not sure that you know,
there's there's a lot of opportunities for new you know, musicians.

Speaker 1 (53:39):
Okay, space space gets crowded, There's no question the space
gets more crowded. I think that the quality still rises
the top somehow. It involves, as David says, marketing, this
is kind of what I focus on, and audience access.
You still have to be very involved with that. But
good quality hopefully will rise to the top because people

(53:59):
want quality. So here's my take. I just want to
make no mistake about my take on AI, because listen,
ideal in the art world. I am an artist, I'm
a filmmaker first and foremost. I am not fearful of
AI at all. All Right, I believe that it is
going to provide opportunity for so many filmmakers who otherwise

(54:20):
wouldn't have the opportunity and so many good storytellers who
are locked out of the system in order to tell
their stories and share them with the world. It will
be a crowded space, I agree, But in some ways
I feel like that's leveling the playing field, giving people
opportunities that didn't otherwise exist. And you know a lot

(54:40):
of people in Hollywood who listen to this, A lot
of the actors, a lot of the writers. Everybody will say, oh,
you know what, Jeff, that's not right. You know your
copyright infringement in this and that. And I'm saying, wait
a second, you've locked out all these tens of thousands,
millions of story writers and directors and talented people. You've
locked them out for years because they haven't had a
access to your vertical integration, your streaming platforms, your production funds,

(55:06):
your marketing funds, everything. They've had to go it alone.
And now they're going to have a fighting chance to
tell their stories. Why is that bad for the world.
I think it's good for the world. Albeit it's not
with real people because they can't afford it. They just
can't afford it. But they have great ideas for stories,
and this maybe will open up the door for them
to tell them. So in that respect, that's the direction

(55:27):
I see this going in. And I think the world's
going to get a lot of great content as a
result of it, tons of it. Then you know, albeit,
there's gonna be a lot of bad content too, so
you're gonna have to sort through it. That's the whole
distribution thing. But there's a lot of great artistic people
out there who are going to be able to share
their stories with the world. Now, Zavid, final.

Speaker 4 (55:48):
Words, Yeah, no, I would I'd completely agree with that.
I would say, if you're a storyteller, if you're a screenwriter,
learn the tools, you're good. If you're a director, editor,
anything else, learn how to story right, and then you'll
be good because it's going to be almost a single
person can create this stuff. So as long as the
story is there, I think that's where you want to
focus in on. And then after you get the story,

(56:10):
you can create it. And then figuring out how to
get eyeballs on it, that's the biggest thing. So I
think it's going to open doors for so many people.

Speaker 3 (56:17):
I think it's a great thing. It's a good thing.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
Yeah, listen, my focus. As you know, David, you've seen
all my videos is just how to get eyeballs onto
when you tell that great story, how to get eyeballs.
So I'm not really focused on telling the great story.
I know a lot of people are, you know, most
filmmakers are. I'm focused on how people hear about that
great story that you told. So I'm looking at how

(56:41):
to integrate AI into marketing more so than into storytelling,
because it's equally, if not more challenging. So okay, gentlemen,
thank you very much. It's been eye opening. I fear
that we're going to have to talk, like I said again,
in a couple of months. I don't fear. I look
forward to it. But everything's changing so quickly. You know, Daniel,

(57:03):
you kept saying two years. I'm not sure. I agree.
I'm thinking it's more like two to three months. But
time will tell. We shall see where this goes the direction.
Maybe I'm watching too many YouTube videos about what's happening
in AI, because I do watch a lot, and some
of them frightened me. Just the direction other industries are

(57:23):
going in, especially you know, the Defense department. That scares me.
But in terms of creativity, I feel like we're about
to see a lot of different changes So, David Daniel,
thanks a lot for coming on. I appreciate your time.
All right, so you heard what I had to say
about AI. I just feel it's going to create opportunities

(57:45):
for storytellers and lots of other very creative, artistic people
to hopefully be able to share their content with the world.
I feel like that's a positive thing. The negative part
is there might it might eat up jobs, it might
take away human interaction with other human beings. That's negative.
I'm not sure my generation is gonna love that. But

(58:08):
whatever direction this takes, we'll see and we'll keep you
posted because, as I said, this is a free train
traveling really quick and it's not turned around anytime soon.
Thanks for listening and remember to subscribe. We'll see you
next time.