In this episode of Indie Filmmaking: Truth & Reality, filmmaker Jeff Deverett sits down with Production Manager Kelli Lessie for an honest conversation about the real-life challenges behind indie film production. Kelli shares what it really means to manage a set, juggle chaos, and stay committed to the project no matter what.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
There are so many moving parts to an indie film production,
and one of the most important components is having a
great production manager who is super organized, knows what's going on,
and can get the job done. Today's guest is Kelly Lessie.
Kelly and I have been working on many films over
the past few years and she is always my production manager.
She does a great job. She anticipates what needs to
(00:21):
be done before I even e dress it with her.
That's what you look for in a production manager, and
I'm so excited to have Kelly on the show. If
you want to be a successful indie filmmaker, you need
to know a lot about not just the production of movies,
but the business. We are going to tell you the
truth and reality of what really happens in the indie
(00:43):
film business. Hello, Kelly, welcome to the show. Thanks for
taking the time to chat with myself and all of
my guests and all of the listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Well, the honor is mine. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So, Kelly, you and I worked on two movies last summer.
I called you the production manager and do you remember
what the job description was when I hired you? It
was a very simple job description. Do you remember what
that was.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Absolutely, You're going to do everything everything.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
It was a one word description, everything exactly. So actually,
the way I break it down on my shoots, and
this isn't necessarily standard for the whole industry, this is
how I do it, obviously. So I have two people
on set who have the everything job. One is the
line producer. She had the everything task of doing all
the administrative stuff, which would mean budgeting, scheduling, payroll, insurance,
(01:39):
legal contracts, finance, all of the background administrative stuff. And
then you, who I called the production manager. You had
the job of doing everything on set, which is basically
coordinating everything that happens on the set, the look of
the film, the production design, all the wardrobe people reported
to you, the here and makeup casting. Basically all the
(02:00):
artistic elements of the movie flowed through you. Obviously, we
have a cinematographer who sets up the shots and the
lighting and that kind of stuff, so you weren't involved
with that, but you were involved with almost everything else
to do with the artistic look of the film, and
that's kind of your forte. So why don't you just
describe sort of what you actually did on the shoots.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I what I did was juggling multiple crew positions. I
did everything from production design, location, scouting, props. I oversaw wardrobe, makeup, hair,
I oversaw a script supervisor, props, set design, catering, catering, beeding,
(02:40):
you know, a cast and crew of thirty.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah, So I would say that the major focus while
we were shooting. I mean everything was a focus, obviously,
but production design, which is working with the locations, making
them look good, dressing them so that they're appropriate for
the shots, and you know, and that was probably the
core focus, which is what we wanted it to be.
Of course, I'm not belittling all the other stuff, because
there was tons and tons of moving parts. But for
(03:05):
the most part, the most of the discussions that you
and I had, me being the director and you the
production designer, was what's it going to look like? So
you and I worked together on getting the locations, and
we got lucky with some of them. But even when
you get a great location, you still got to dress
it up a little bit, hopefully not too much. But
let's talk about one of the more complicated ones. So well,
(03:26):
the scene was supposed to be a convention center. I
mean they call it a convention center. But it's basically
a big empty room, So why don't you talk about
what went on? Because that's a big one.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I wanted to know what your vision was.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
So we did go to the location and I did
ask you, okay, what are you visualizing here?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
It was great.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
You were very clear on what you wanted, and so
we moved forth, but constantly keeping in touch with every step,
so we knew we were moving in the right direction
as far as pipe and drape and booths.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Just describe what the scene was going to be like,
the set of scenes and what you had to do.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
It was a medical convention, so it was just a
little challenging because you had to set up booths and
everything had to be high tech in the medical.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Industry, and we couldn't use real names. So you had
to create ten or twelve new companies, new signs, new banners,
new looks, in addition dressing the whole convention center you
were creating. Was it ten or twelve new companies or
maybe more? I can't remember.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
We had a total of sixteen sixteen and ten booths
and six tables.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Okay, so sixteen looks.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Sixteen different looks with different names, fictitious.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Names, banners, and stuff. Imagine you're going to this convention
where you walk around and you go to these different
booths and you meet with people and they give you
something a brochure, you know, some item or something like that.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
You had to create all of that, every little inch
of every little table.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Okay, so that's not only the look, but you had
to get all the props and all the you had
to dress people to make them look the right way.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, even name tags.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Name TI forgot about the name tags.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I had to create hundreds of name tags. And we
can't forget about background.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Well, let's talk about background.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
That was the challenge because we needed a lot and.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
I think we had one hundred hundred and ten people
there that way, we had.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
About one hundred and Look.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
I was very fortunate that the budget allowed me to
hire a background casting director or a background agent that
supplied me with background.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
If it's in your budget to do.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
That, please do because then your background are likely to
show up more than if you were to just book
them yourselves. If you don't have it in your budget
to get someone to bring in your background for you,
then get ready because a lot of background just won't
show up so it's a little bit of a challenge.
Not only that, you have to have a place for
(05:54):
them to PLoP down, so you have to have an
area for them to start filling out all the clipboards,
all the tables. You have to apply them with water
and with food. You have to go through all their wardrobe.
We asked them to bring three different selections of wardrobe.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
You have to go through all that wardrobe.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
So it's quite a handful to work with such a
large number of background.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, considering it was you and one other basically, well,
you know, we had the wardrobe person, but it's still
you're limited in your resources to deal with that kind
of stuff. And those are the big scenes in terms
of managing sort of the background. There's another episode that
I do on casting and that is sort of main
character casting. That's the cast. So just explain the difference
(06:39):
between sort of background casting and management and main casting,
because it's actually different. They're actually different casting directors, so
sometimes people don't understand.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
That it's true.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
When working with our background casting director, I had to
be very specific on gender, age, and ethnic so we
had to make sure or that.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
All those faces were covered.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I've worked with her before and so I could trust
her with her selection.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I'll give an example.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
There was one particular beautiful woman there, but her hair
was very, very blonde, very bright, and you could see
her in almost every scene that we shot, so eventually
I had to just tuck her in the back for
several scenes because she was so recognizable. So you have
(07:30):
to be kind of aware of what they're wearing, where
they're walking, when.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
They're crossing and back and forth in front of the.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Camera, because what you're explaining is that nobody understands what
we're talking about is that we are actually using the
exact same background for different scenes, as though they're in
different places with different people, So you're kind of mix
and matching them. Hence the reason they come with three
or four different wardrobe changes. It's very cost effective if
you're bringing in one hundred people to shoot out all
your big scenes on the same day if you can.
(07:59):
But if you different looks, then you've got to mix
and match the people in a way that it doesn't
look recognizable, like the same people are in different scenes
that they shouldn't be in.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Right, we had them go, we would stop, and then
in between shots we'd have them go go throw on
a jacket, go throw on a sweater, take off your vest,
you know, change your hairstrop, put your hair up, put
your hair down, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So yeah, yeah, but that's what you do on low
budget indie films to stay on budget. When you say
I'm dealing with the casting director, that's a special casting
director that just manages background people as opposed to the
other casting that we did for the main actors, which
are different. Casting people actually audition those people background casting.
You don't audition anybody. You just hope they show up.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Yes, you hope they show up. And it's amazing how
many do not show up?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Why? That's why?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Why do people not show up? I mean they're getting paid, They.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Are getting paid, and they're getting paid.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Well, I hear every excuse from I can't get my babysitter,
to my car broke down, to.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Some don't even give you excuses at all.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
So you you just got to move forward with what
you have. Sometimes I'll pull in some of my crew
members have in there. You have to do what you
have to do.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yeah, so, Kelly, wearing all these hats. You have to
be very organized, You have to be obviously diligent, conscientious,
you got to be able to solve a lot of
problems and you move at the right pace and not panic,
which is the case in a lot of positions. Do
you think it was my expectations were too much. I
mean you pulled it off royally. I mean there might
have been things that I wasn't aware we're going on
(09:31):
in the background, but you always had a smile on
your face and you're still talking to me. So I
feel like you were able to juggle a lot of stuff.
Is it realistic or not?
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Yes, I just have to be careful not to take
on too many tasks all at the same time. There
were times when we were working on your film, our
scenes had food. It's really difficult to work with food props.
It seems like every on projects where I'm hired and
there's food involved, I always kind of.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Forget about that.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
But I need to remember that if you're working with
food props, you need to take extra time and extra caution.
Just be aware that it's going to take a little
bit longer with food props.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Let's just talk about that. So food props meaning there
would be say a scene where two people are eating
a meal together, yes, and their plates always have to
kind of for continuity. If they eat half their meal,
we got to rejig the plate and make it look
like it's the same place in the scene if we're
doing another take. So you have to have lots of
extra food, keep loading it up, make it look the
exact same. I mean, that's the challenge, right, Yes it is, yep, yeah,
(10:36):
which and we had a lot of that in the movies.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
There a lot. We did have a lot of that.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Right, Of all the things you do, what would you
say is say, the most challenging or the most aggravating.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Let's say, other than the food, the most challenging is
when you're working with locations, because we're doing our part
and you're just hoping that when you get to your
designated low that you've booked, that they're doing their part.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And a lot of times things do fall through the cracks.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Okay, so you said, you know your book location, you
show up, but sometimes it doesn't work. I know exactly
what you're talking about, But for the audience, can you
give us an example.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
An example was in a film that you and I
did together last June.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Last summer.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
We had booked a hospital for five days and as
a production manager. You should always be the first person
there because I want to make sure everything is laid out,
is what we're expecting that I have working with our
not the crew member, but the communications or.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
The marketing director.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
We were at a hospital, so let me I'll just
say that we were at a hospital and I was
working with the marketing communications manager with this hospital.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
I arrived first, our first.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Day of shooting at this hospital, and he approaches and says,
we had a flood in one of our departments and
we had to move them to the area, the wing
where you were.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Booked to film, and this area was just it was perfect.
It was perfect.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
But now we don't have it, and you don't stop production.
As a production manager, you come up with something. You've
got to have a plan. I can't take credit for this,
but he did come back and say, we do have
a wing on the same floor.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
He says, it's older, but there's nobody in there, and
you can use that wing cold on.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
It's older, abandoned, and it had a huge flood in
it also, which was not repaired, so it's in disarray,
complete disarray.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
It was like it was haunted. Well, actually, there were
rumors that it was haunted. It was really bad. I mean,
in our original location, in the other wing, we had
access to beautiful rooms, we had medical equipment, monitors, oh,
we had all that. We get pushed into this wing
that had nothing like that at all, and so we
(13:05):
were really it was a challenge. It was a real challenge.
We were squeezed into closets we had to make look
like offices. We were scrambling to get the look that
we wanted for these scenes, these hospital scenes.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Okay, so I want to say that what you just
described goes on in every single shoot. It's almost like
you should almost assume that you're going to have one
of those kind of days where a loop gets thrown
at you. There's two ways to deal with it. You
go into a room, bang your head against the wall
and the show stops, or you take a deep breath.
Then you come up with a solution. It's not always
a great solution. We come up with the best solution
(13:41):
you can under the circumstances because on low budget any shooting,
you don't have the luxury of booking another day. Sometimes
you got your whole crew there, they got to get paid,
your cast there, everybody's there. You got to make do
You were good. You're good at juggling that stuff. I
mean you just figured out how to move furniture. Sure,
you and the cinematographer who you're good friends with, who
(14:03):
you do a lot of work with. You guys said
let's shoot this way from this angle to make it
look this way, and you just cheated a lot.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
We did, and we also, just Scott and I and
you would do this with us. Also. Sometimes we would
walk around the entire.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Hospital, which we weren't supposed to do, but we did anyway,
and we'd find rooms that would work for the scenes
that we needed, and we just sometimes grilled it.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, you have to do that. So, Kelly, you basically
do only low budget indie filmmaking.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah, you don't do any of the big budget stuff,
so you've never gotten used to the luxuries that they
have on big budget sets. So you're always juggling multiple
jobs and doing multiple things. What do you have to
be to do your role the way you do it
on a low budget set where you can really manage stuff.
If somebody's listening to this and they say, hey, I
want to do what she does, what direction would you
set them in?
Speaker 3 (14:53):
What I would say is is I started production. I
used to work in front of the camera, but I
started working in product fifteen years ago. You have to
learn everything if you want to be a production manager
or a producer, you have to learn everything. You have
to learn about the camera department, you have to learn
about lighting, production design, set design, locations, casting. Just get
(15:17):
your hands involved in every aspect of production as you can,
because when you're on set, one of those departments is
going to have an emergency and you need to be
able to.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Solve that problem.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
You know, but you're not going to step in and
shoot the movie like you're not going to be a cinematographer,
are you? I don't know? Can you do that?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
No?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
But there could be somebody involved in the camera department
that needs something, or somebody with lighting who one day
they ran out a tape and I happen to have
a roll of game tape on me and here you go.
So you've got to be able to figure out the
answers immediately.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Tell us about you know, this is another story, but
the actor who didn't show up, we lost it out.
How do you deal with that kind of thing?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Wow, that was really difficult because this particular actor had
a lead role. The character was a resident doctor. He
sent us a text at seven pm. We had just
almost wrapped, or we were wrapped at seven pm. He
sent a text saying, oh, sorry, I'm not going to
be there anymore. I got a better job offer. I mean,
(16:21):
it was just something so vague and just so out
of the blue. And his first day was supposed to
be in twelve.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Hours the next morning, the next morning, so we hadn't
shot him yet. He was His first day was the
next morning. He quit twelve hours before.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Okay, so now we are in production. The line producer,
you and me, we were all scrambling what to do.
Who can we get in twelve hours? Who looks the role?
Who can be in San Diego? Who has a ton
of dialogue they need to memorize. I pulled up all
the self tapes that I had for all our callbacks,
(16:55):
and we were just reading those to see if anybody
could fit that.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
And you ended up getting somebody, and you know, he did.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
We did get somebody, and believe or not, he we
sent him the script so he could start memorizing lines
because he had a lot of dialogue. The next morning
and so we sent him the script. He drove down
early the next morning.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I rejig the scene so that we could give him
a little bit of a break so we wouldn't go
into heavy scenes right off the tart, because you know,
he didn't know the script. Yeah, but that's the kind
of stuff you do. I call it juggling. You've got
five balls in the air, then somebody throws your wrench
and you got to put five more. Now you get
ten in the air, and you got to keep them
going because the show goes on. And relatively speaking, our
budgets were decent, like you had enough money to do
(17:39):
things you needed to do, but you've worked on much
smaller budget shows. So sort of as we were talking
about this morning, because I know you were going to
be starting a new show, the advice I was saying,
you know, is don't try to stretch it too much.
Don't try to look too big for a budget you
can't afford. So just kind of talk about that a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
That was very good advice.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
By the way, you always want your film to be
the best it can be, and every scene just look
like you had, you know, a million dollar budget every day,
and you can't do that because if you're trying to
do that with a small budget, You're not going to
have some of the things in these scenes that you need,
and it's going to look cheap, it's not going to
(18:21):
look real, And so you need to make sure that
your scenes conform to your budget. And it's best if
you can downsize that and then up the production value
of it and get the visuals from it with the
smaller budget versus not having the visuals that you want
(18:41):
with a bigger budget.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah. So an example I would give with that is
I shoot a lot of sports films, and you know
there's always going to be a big sort of like
competition seen in a stadium or something like that, and
you know you want these gigantic sediums, but you know
you can't afford to put enough extras in them, and
they're too big to shoot because you don't have the resources.
So it's better to actually shoot in a little bit
of a smaller venue and dress it up and make
(19:03):
it feel bigger and more exciting, even though you want
the bigger venue because you want it to look great
relative to the resources that you're working with. I know
you were in front of the camera for the first
part of your career and then you went behind the camera.
So what is the ultimate goal? What direction are you
heading in as a production manager? Do you want to
be a writer director?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I like what I'm doing.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
I would love to direct, but I don't know if
I have the talent or the ability to do that.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
So it's not a goal of mine. But I love what.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
I'm doing right now. I'm a problem solver. I feel
that I'm really good at it. I feel like if
i can make somebody else happy, then I've achieved my
goal for the day. So if there's a problem on
set and I can solve that problem, my goal has
been taken care of.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
We're good to go.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
When you finish a day and you can walk away
with that you're on budget, no over time, and that
you've left the location with the owner happy, then I'm
a success.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
So let's how I look at it.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
That's so important. We had an episode with location manager,
and so often the owner of the location is not happy.
I mean, I know you take great, great effort in
just talk about the links you go to make sure
that those locations are left in order.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Well, I'm the first one there first of all, just
to start a relationship with the owner, and then you're
hoping during the whole shoot that we're on that location
and everything goes smoothly, nothing breaks. And then I want
to make sure we leave on time because the owner
has a life too. So if you're at a restaurant
(20:45):
or on a yacht or in a hospital, wherever your
location happens to be, I'm the last one to leave,
and I'm the last one to check out with the
owner or the manager who's managing the facility, to make
sure that I left it better than when I arrived.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
And you take pictures and you do all videos and everything.
When you arrive, you know exactly what it looked like
when you arrive.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I want to make sure everything is bad.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, there's times we arrive in locations that they're messy
and you leave them super neat.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah that's me.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Which is great, you know, because it keeps the door
open for future shoots out Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
You never know when you want to go back on
another project and use that same location again.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah, okay, So just talk about what you do has
a huge impact on what the film looks like ultimately.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Well, I hope.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
So you know you work hard for that. I mean,
like when we were working for you, Jeff. We actually
had to hire rent a truck for all the props
and all the gear and catering, all the tables of
the I mean, there's just there's so much that goes
into those fifteen seventeen days of filming that people sometimes
(21:59):
don't realize.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
You know, Oh yeah, we need seating for our cast
and crew when they.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Have lunch, you know exactly. I mean, you know, often
I said with location scouts, like people say, Okay, that's
a great location, but there's nowhere to have lunch, there's
nowhere to park. The logistics sometimes don't work out. Just
talk a little bit about catering because I know you're
very involved in that. You know, some people are very
appreciative that they're getting fed. Some aren't. Some have, you know,
lots of complaints.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Catering.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Another word for it in the film industry is craft
or craft services. We want to make sure that the crew,
the cast and crew always has a way to go snack.
So we always have a table or an area set
up with drinks, with food, all kinds of snacks, everything
from nuts to you know, chocolate cake, you mention it.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
We try to provide.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Every kind of snack for all those who are vegan
or non.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
GMO or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
And I want to tell you that was the challenging
part because when you're providing lunch.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
We were a low budget indie film.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
We don't have a catering truck coming up every lunch
day and you can put in your order. That's not
what we did. We actually ordered lunch from Rubios from.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Luney Grill Subway. Yeah, so it.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Was difficult to please those who.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Have special dietary needs.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
That's always a challenge and you do have to be
sensitive to it.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Kelly. As the production manager, you do like to partake
in the artistic side of the film, and I actually
appreciate your participation. But every once in a while you'll
come wandering over to me and give me some script
notes about say some actors or some scenes and something
like that, and sometimes I take them and sometimes I don't.
So how does that dynamic kind of figure itself out?
Speaker 3 (23:58):
There are times and you know, I'll look at the
monitor and look at a scene and go, I think
that needs you know, a flag on the other side
of the window, and you say no, no, no, no,
it's okay, And I remember one time I did it
anyway and you got mad at me. But there are
times when if the dialogue doesn't seem right, or if
(24:21):
the scene doesn't look right, or there's just something wrong,
I will go and whisper in your.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Ear and you may use it and you may not.
Doesn't hurt my feelings.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
I'm hoping that sometimes my thoughts are suggestions, maybe of help.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
I don't know if they are.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Sometimes I'll say, wait, stop, we are missing something on
this table, and I'll run in and put something on
a table or on a desk, and then it slowed
down production for thirty seconds.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
I know, but it's often made it a lot better.
So here's what I'm going to say about your role.
When you do it properly, like you know, the way
I would use a production manager who is kind of
overlooking the artistic side of the shoot, You're paying attention
to the way we're telling the story. I mean, that's
what a director does. Obviously, they tell the story right,
So you are really paying attention to all the elements
(25:15):
of telling the story, everything from the look of the
sets to the look of the actors, the way they're dressed,
their makeup, their hair, to the whole script. Actually, what
they're saying, you're actually paying attention. Now, how many people
on set are actually doing that. It's me, the director, you,
and maybe the script supervisor. That's it. Everybody else is
just paying attention to the component that they're doing. Even
(25:38):
the cinematographer is only kind of looking at the shots.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
I often tell my friends who asked me about filmmaking,
I say, you believe it or not, I'm going to
tell you that most of the crew doesn't even read
the script. They could go through a whole shooting day.
They could say, oh, yeah, we shot in a kitchen,
we shot in an office, we shot this, but they
don't really know what the scene was. Then they don't
really know what the story is until after they go
to the pre you're screening and see the whole movie
(26:01):
put together, which is okay with me. I don't have
a problem with that as long as they're you know,
lighting it properly and setting up the grip equipment, all
this kind of stuff. If everybody's doing their job, great,
But you you need to be involved in the storytelling.
You need to see it all come together. You need
to almost have the vision that a director has because
all of these components that you're working on matter, and
(26:23):
the little things make a big difference in how the
film's going to ultimately look. So I do appreciate that,
and I think that being a production manager the way
I define a production manager, Again, not everybody defines a
production manager that way. A lot of people there's a
crossover in sort of the line producing and more administrative stuff.
But the way I use you, it's almost like you
(26:43):
almost are like a co director in that you're paying
attention to a lot of the artistic elements. So even
though you know, I don't always agree on maybe some
of the directions of the storytelling, and you know, the
director gets the final say on that, and it's really
good to have somebody who's actually paying attention and saying, hey,
did you think about this or what about this? Because
there's so many things coming at you, so having an
(27:04):
extra set of eyes, you know, like obviously the script
supervisors paying attention to continuity a lot, as were you.
I mean, you really look out for continuity. Those are
things that are really important to do. So I asked
you the sort of the most challenging, aggravating part of
script producing, but what would you say would be the
reason why some low budget indie films are more successful
(27:24):
than others in terms of the shoot, not necessarily in
terms of the distribution of marketing, but in terms of
kind of staying on time and on budget and getting
the film to look as good as possible, even with
micro budgets.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Well, there are a lot of aspects to that. First
of all, getting your core team together so we can
get your vision on camera. So that's our key point
is to make sure your vision.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
You mean being the director, the director, you being.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
The director, that we make sure that we get everything
you need there on and get those visuals, everything that
you have up here for this scene that it comes
to reality.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Let me just stop you there for a second. So
my style is I generally have a production meeting with
you guys every day so that we can share what's
going on, what little things are important. I do that
on a daily basis with you and the cinematographer and
the script supervisor.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Right, that's you know, your core team.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
So now we're all aware of what's going to be
happening that day. We should have anyway, but we want
your input because you'll go home at night and think, wow,
I think we should do this also in Chinese.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
You know more.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Or you know, wow, it'd be great if we had
just this little you know, it's so great to be
able to communicate with you so we know what your
vision is and that makes our job a little easier.
So it's just you know, having that communication and the resources.
Like I said, if you're a production manager, I also
a set design I was like, you know, I was
handling props and I just had to make sure that
(29:01):
I had everything there just in case we needed it.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Right. So obviously being organized, but having a good team
that is so critical. Having people around you who you trust. Actually,
you know, it's great if you have good chemistry and
you enjoy working with them, but trusting them knowing when
you say to do this or do this, they actually
get it done. And you know, I think a key
component to being successful and a low budget in you shoot.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
I agree, I totally agree.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Okay, many closing thoughts on people who are thinking of
being a production manager.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
My like I said earlier, my only closing thought would
be to learn everything because, as Jeff says, my job
was everything. So learn as much as you can, even
if it's a department that may not interest you. Just
figure out the basics on some of those things. So
(29:54):
when problems do arise on set, it's your job, my job,
to be the problem solver and figure it out.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
You've got to figure it out.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Because there is a crew waiting, there are actors waiting,
and you've got to have a solution.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
I agree, I totally agree. Er Well, Kelly, thank you
so much for taking the time to share your thoughts
and your experiences on the show. And I've always enjoy
working with you, as you know, and I hope to
next time I see on be on set.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Agame
There are so many moving parts to an indie film production,
and one of the most important components is having a
great production manager who is super organized, knows what's going on,
and can get the job done. Today's guest is Kelly Lessie.
Kelly and I have been working on many films over
the past few years and she is always my production manager.
She does a great job. She anticipates what needs to
(00:21):
be done before I even e dress it with her.
That's what you look for in a production manager, and
I'm so excited to have Kelly on the show. If
you want to be a successful indie filmmaker, you need
to know a lot about not just the production of movies,
but the business. We are going to tell you the
truth and reality of what really happens in the indie
(00:43):
film business. Hello, Kelly, welcome to the show. Thanks for
taking the time to chat with myself and all of
my guests and all of the listeners.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Well, the honor is mine. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
So, Kelly, you and I worked on two movies last summer.
I called you the production manager and do you remember
what the job description was when I hired you? It
was a very simple job description. Do you remember what
that was.
Speaker 2 (01:11):
Absolutely, You're going to do everything everything.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
It was a one word description, everything exactly. So actually,
the way I break it down on my shoots, and
this isn't necessarily standard for the whole industry, this is
how I do it, obviously. So I have two people
on set who have the everything job. One is the
line producer. She had the everything task of doing all
the administrative stuff, which would mean budgeting, scheduling, payroll, insurance,
(01:39):
legal contracts, finance, all of the background administrative stuff. And
then you, who I called the production manager. You had
the job of doing everything on set, which is basically
coordinating everything that happens on the set, the look of
the film, the production design, all the wardrobe people reported
to you, the here and makeup casting. Basically all the
(02:00):
artistic elements of the movie flowed through you. Obviously, we
have a cinematographer who sets up the shots and the
lighting and that kind of stuff, so you weren't involved
with that, but you were involved with almost everything else
to do with the artistic look of the film, and
that's kind of your forte. So why don't you just
describe sort of what you actually did on the shoots.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
I what I did was juggling multiple crew positions. I
did everything from production design, location, scouting, props. I oversaw wardrobe, makeup, hair,
I oversaw a script supervisor, props, set design, catering, catering, beeding,
(02:40):
you know, a cast and crew of thirty.
Speaker 2 (02:42):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah, So I would say that the major focus while
we were shooting. I mean everything was a focus, obviously,
but production design, which is working with the locations, making
them look good, dressing them so that they're appropriate for
the shots, and you know, and that was probably the
core focus, which is what we wanted it to be.
Of course, I'm not belittling all the other stuff, because
there was tons and tons of moving parts. But for
(03:05):
the most part, the most of the discussions that you
and I had, me being the director and you the
production designer, was what's it going to look like? So
you and I worked together on getting the locations, and
we got lucky with some of them. But even when
you get a great location, you still got to dress
it up a little bit, hopefully not too much. But
let's talk about one of the more complicated ones. So well,
(03:26):
the scene was supposed to be a convention center. I
mean they call it a convention center. But it's basically
a big empty room, So why don't you talk about
what went on? Because that's a big one.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I wanted to know what your vision was.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
So we did go to the location and I did
ask you, okay, what are you visualizing here?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
It was great.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
You were very clear on what you wanted, and so
we moved forth, but constantly keeping in touch with every step,
so we knew we were moving in the right direction
as far as pipe and drape and booths.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
Just describe what the scene was going to be like,
the set of scenes and what you had to do.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
It was a medical convention, so it was just a
little challenging because you had to set up booths and
everything had to be high tech in the medical.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Industry, and we couldn't use real names. So you had
to create ten or twelve new companies, new signs, new banners,
new looks, in addition dressing the whole convention center you
were creating. Was it ten or twelve new companies or
maybe more? I can't remember.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
We had a total of sixteen sixteen and ten booths
and six tables.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Okay, so sixteen looks.
Speaker 2 (04:37):
Sixteen different looks with different names, fictitious.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
Names, banners, and stuff. Imagine you're going to this convention
where you walk around and you go to these different
booths and you meet with people and they give you
something a brochure, you know, some item or something like that.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
You had to create all of that, every little inch
of every little table.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:56):
Okay, so that's not only the look, but you had
to get all the props and all the you had
to dress people to make them look the right way.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yeah, even name tags.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
Name TI forgot about the name tags.
Speaker 3 (05:06):
I had to create hundreds of name tags. And we
can't forget about background.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
Well, let's talk about background.
Speaker 2 (05:12):
That was the challenge because we needed a lot and.
Speaker 1 (05:16):
I think we had one hundred hundred and ten people
there that way, we had.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
About one hundred and Look.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
I was very fortunate that the budget allowed me to
hire a background casting director or a background agent that
supplied me with background.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
If it's in your budget to do.
Speaker 3 (05:31):
That, please do because then your background are likely to
show up more than if you were to just book
them yourselves. If you don't have it in your budget
to get someone to bring in your background for you,
then get ready because a lot of background just won't
show up so it's a little bit of a challenge.
Not only that, you have to have a place for
(05:54):
them to PLoP down, so you have to have an
area for them to start filling out all the clipboards,
all the tables. You have to apply them with water
and with food. You have to go through all their wardrobe.
We asked them to bring three different selections of wardrobe.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
You have to go through all that wardrobe.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
So it's quite a handful to work with such a
large number of background.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
Yeah, considering it was you and one other basically, well,
you know, we had the wardrobe person, but it's still
you're limited in your resources to deal with that kind
of stuff. And those are the big scenes in terms
of managing sort of the background. There's another episode that
I do on casting and that is sort of main
character casting. That's the cast. So just explain the difference
(06:39):
between sort of background casting and management and main casting,
because it's actually different. They're actually different casting directors, so
sometimes people don't understand.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
That it's true.
Speaker 3 (06:49):
When working with our background casting director, I had to
be very specific on gender, age, and ethnic so we
had to make sure or that.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
All those faces were covered.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
I've worked with her before and so I could trust
her with her selection.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
I'll give an example.
Speaker 3 (07:09):
There was one particular beautiful woman there, but her hair
was very, very blonde, very bright, and you could see
her in almost every scene that we shot, so eventually
I had to just tuck her in the back for
several scenes because she was so recognizable. So you have
(07:30):
to be kind of aware of what they're wearing, where
they're walking, when.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
They're crossing and back and forth in front of the.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Camera, because what you're explaining is that nobody understands what
we're talking about is that we are actually using the
exact same background for different scenes, as though they're in
different places with different people, So you're kind of mix
and matching them. Hence the reason they come with three
or four different wardrobe changes. It's very cost effective if
you're bringing in one hundred people to shoot out all
your big scenes on the same day if you can.
(07:59):
But if you different looks, then you've got to mix
and match the people in a way that it doesn't
look recognizable, like the same people are in different scenes
that they shouldn't be in.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Right, we had them go, we would stop, and then
in between shots we'd have them go go throw on
a jacket, go throw on a sweater, take off your vest,
you know, change your hairstrop, put your hair up, put
your hair down, you know.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
So yeah, yeah, but that's what you do on low
budget indie films to stay on budget. When you say
I'm dealing with the casting director, that's a special casting
director that just manages background people as opposed to the
other casting that we did for the main actors, which
are different. Casting people actually audition those people background casting.
You don't audition anybody. You just hope they show up.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Yes, you hope they show up. And it's amazing how
many do not show up?
Speaker 2 (08:45):
Why? That's why?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
Why do people not show up? I mean they're getting paid, They.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
Are getting paid, and they're getting paid.
Speaker 3 (08:50):
Well, I hear every excuse from I can't get my babysitter,
to my car broke down, to.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Some don't even give you excuses at all.
Speaker 3 (09:02):
So you you just got to move forward with what
you have. Sometimes I'll pull in some of my crew
members have in there. You have to do what you
have to do.
Speaker 1 (09:10):
Yeah, so, Kelly, wearing all these hats. You have to
be very organized, You have to be obviously diligent, conscientious,
you got to be able to solve a lot of
problems and you move at the right pace and not panic,
which is the case in a lot of positions. Do
you think it was my expectations were too much. I
mean you pulled it off royally. I mean there might
have been things that I wasn't aware we're going on
(09:31):
in the background, but you always had a smile on
your face and you're still talking to me. So I
feel like you were able to juggle a lot of stuff.
Is it realistic or not?
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Yes, I just have to be careful not to take
on too many tasks all at the same time. There
were times when we were working on your film, our
scenes had food. It's really difficult to work with food props.
It seems like every on projects where I'm hired and
there's food involved, I always kind of.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Forget about that.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
But I need to remember that if you're working with
food props, you need to take extra time and extra caution.
Just be aware that it's going to take a little
bit longer with food props.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
Let's just talk about that. So food props meaning there
would be say a scene where two people are eating
a meal together, yes, and their plates always have to
kind of for continuity. If they eat half their meal,
we got to rejig the plate and make it look
like it's the same place in the scene if we're
doing another take. So you have to have lots of
extra food, keep loading it up, make it look the
exact same. I mean, that's the challenge, right, Yes it is, yep, yeah,
(10:36):
which and we had a lot of that in the movies.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
There a lot. We did have a lot of that.
Speaker 1 (10:40):
Right, Of all the things you do, what would you
say is say, the most challenging or the most aggravating.
Speaker 3 (10:47):
Let's say, other than the food, the most challenging is
when you're working with locations, because we're doing our part
and you're just hoping that when you get to your
designated low that you've booked, that they're doing their part.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
And a lot of times things do fall through the cracks.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
Okay, so you said, you know your book location, you
show up, but sometimes it doesn't work. I know exactly
what you're talking about, But for the audience, can you
give us an example.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
An example was in a film that you and I
did together last June.
Speaker 2 (11:20):
Last summer.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
We had booked a hospital for five days and as
a production manager. You should always be the first person
there because I want to make sure everything is laid out,
is what we're expecting that I have working with our
not the crew member, but the communications or.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
The marketing director.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
We were at a hospital, so let me I'll just
say that we were at a hospital and I was
working with the marketing communications manager with this hospital.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
I arrived first, our first.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Day of shooting at this hospital, and he approaches and says,
we had a flood in one of our departments and
we had to move them to the area, the wing
where you were.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
Booked to film, and this area was just it was perfect.
It was perfect.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
But now we don't have it, and you don't stop production.
As a production manager, you come up with something. You've
got to have a plan. I can't take credit for this,
but he did come back and say, we do have
a wing on the same floor.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
He says, it's older, but there's nobody in there, and
you can use that wing cold on.
Speaker 1 (12:37):
It's older, abandoned, and it had a huge flood in
it also, which was not repaired, so it's in disarray,
complete disarray.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
It was like it was haunted. Well, actually, there were
rumors that it was haunted. It was really bad. I mean,
in our original location, in the other wing, we had
access to beautiful rooms, we had medical equipment, monitors, oh,
we had all that. We get pushed into this wing
that had nothing like that at all, and so we
(13:05):
were really it was a challenge. It was a real challenge.
We were squeezed into closets we had to make look
like offices. We were scrambling to get the look that
we wanted for these scenes, these hospital scenes.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
Okay, so I want to say that what you just
described goes on in every single shoot. It's almost like
you should almost assume that you're going to have one
of those kind of days where a loop gets thrown
at you. There's two ways to deal with it. You
go into a room, bang your head against the wall
and the show stops, or you take a deep breath.
Then you come up with a solution. It's not always
a great solution. We come up with the best solution
(13:41):
you can under the circumstances because on low budget any shooting,
you don't have the luxury of booking another day. Sometimes
you got your whole crew there, they got to get paid,
your cast there, everybody's there. You got to make do
You were good. You're good at juggling that stuff. I
mean you just figured out how to move furniture. Sure,
you and the cinematographer who you're good friends with, who
(14:03):
you do a lot of work with. You guys said
let's shoot this way from this angle to make it
look this way, and you just cheated a lot.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
We did, and we also, just Scott and I and
you would do this with us. Also. Sometimes we would
walk around the entire.
Speaker 3 (14:17):
Hospital, which we weren't supposed to do, but we did anyway,
and we'd find rooms that would work for the scenes
that we needed, and we just sometimes grilled it.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, you have to do that. So, Kelly, you basically
do only low budget indie filmmaking.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Correct.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah, you don't do any of the big budget stuff,
so you've never gotten used to the luxuries that they
have on big budget sets. So you're always juggling multiple
jobs and doing multiple things. What do you have to
be to do your role the way you do it
on a low budget set where you can really manage stuff.
If somebody's listening to this and they say, hey, I
want to do what she does, what direction would you
set them in?
Speaker 3 (14:53):
What I would say is is I started production. I
used to work in front of the camera, but I
started working in product fifteen years ago. You have to
learn everything if you want to be a production manager
or a producer, you have to learn everything. You have
to learn about the camera department, you have to learn
about lighting, production design, set design, locations, casting. Just get
(15:17):
your hands involved in every aspect of production as you can,
because when you're on set, one of those departments is
going to have an emergency and you need to be
able to.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
Solve that problem.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
You know, but you're not going to step in and
shoot the movie like you're not going to be a cinematographer,
are you? I don't know? Can you do that?
Speaker 2 (15:35):
No?
Speaker 3 (15:35):
But there could be somebody involved in the camera department
that needs something, or somebody with lighting who one day
they ran out a tape and I happen to have
a roll of game tape on me and here you go.
So you've got to be able to figure out the
answers immediately.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
Tell us about you know, this is another story, but
the actor who didn't show up, we lost it out.
How do you deal with that kind of thing?
Speaker 3 (16:00):
Wow, that was really difficult because this particular actor had
a lead role. The character was a resident doctor. He
sent us a text at seven pm. We had just
almost wrapped, or we were wrapped at seven pm. He
sent a text saying, oh, sorry, I'm not going to
be there anymore. I got a better job offer. I mean,
(16:21):
it was just something so vague and just so out
of the blue. And his first day was supposed to
be in twelve.
Speaker 1 (16:27):
Hours the next morning, the next morning, so we hadn't
shot him yet. He was His first day was the
next morning. He quit twelve hours before.
Speaker 3 (16:34):
Okay, so now we are in production. The line producer,
you and me, we were all scrambling what to do.
Who can we get in twelve hours? Who looks the role?
Who can be in San Diego? Who has a ton
of dialogue they need to memorize. I pulled up all
the self tapes that I had for all our callbacks,
(16:55):
and we were just reading those to see if anybody
could fit that.
Speaker 1 (17:00):
And you ended up getting somebody, and you know, he did.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
We did get somebody, and believe or not, he we
sent him the script so he could start memorizing lines
because he had a lot of dialogue. The next morning
and so we sent him the script. He drove down
early the next morning.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
I rejig the scene so that we could give him
a little bit of a break so we wouldn't go
into heavy scenes right off the tart, because you know,
he didn't know the script. Yeah, but that's the kind
of stuff you do. I call it juggling. You've got
five balls in the air, then somebody throws your wrench
and you got to put five more. Now you get
ten in the air, and you got to keep them
going because the show goes on. And relatively speaking, our
budgets were decent, like you had enough money to do
(17:39):
things you needed to do, but you've worked on much
smaller budget shows. So sort of as we were talking
about this morning, because I know you were going to
be starting a new show, the advice I was saying,
you know, is don't try to stretch it too much.
Don't try to look too big for a budget you
can't afford. So just kind of talk about that a
little bit.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
That was very good advice.
Speaker 3 (17:59):
By the way, you always want your film to be
the best it can be, and every scene just look
like you had, you know, a million dollar budget every day,
and you can't do that because if you're trying to
do that with a small budget, You're not going to
have some of the things in these scenes that you need,
and it's going to look cheap, it's not going to
(18:21):
look real, And so you need to make sure that
your scenes conform to your budget. And it's best if
you can downsize that and then up the production value
of it and get the visuals from it with the
smaller budget versus not having the visuals that you want
(18:41):
with a bigger budget.
Speaker 1 (18:43):
Yeah. So an example I would give with that is
I shoot a lot of sports films, and you know
there's always going to be a big sort of like
competition seen in a stadium or something like that, and
you know you want these gigantic sediums, but you know
you can't afford to put enough extras in them, and
they're too big to shoot because you don't have the resources.
So it's better to actually shoot in a little bit
of a smaller venue and dress it up and make
(19:03):
it feel bigger and more exciting, even though you want
the bigger venue because you want it to look great
relative to the resources that you're working with. I know
you were in front of the camera for the first
part of your career and then you went behind the camera.
So what is the ultimate goal? What direction are you
heading in as a production manager? Do you want to
be a writer director?
Speaker 2 (19:24):
I like what I'm doing.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
I would love to direct, but I don't know if
I have the talent or the ability to do that.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
So it's not a goal of mine. But I love what.
Speaker 3 (19:36):
I'm doing right now. I'm a problem solver. I feel
that I'm really good at it. I feel like if
i can make somebody else happy, then I've achieved my
goal for the day. So if there's a problem on
set and I can solve that problem, my goal has
been taken care of.
Speaker 2 (19:57):
We're good to go.
Speaker 3 (19:58):
When you finish a day and you can walk away
with that you're on budget, no over time, and that
you've left the location with the owner happy, then I'm
a success.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
So let's how I look at it.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
That's so important. We had an episode with location manager,
and so often the owner of the location is not happy.
I mean, I know you take great, great effort in
just talk about the links you go to make sure
that those locations are left in order.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Well, I'm the first one there first of all, just
to start a relationship with the owner, and then you're
hoping during the whole shoot that we're on that location
and everything goes smoothly, nothing breaks. And then I want
to make sure we leave on time because the owner
has a life too. So if you're at a restaurant
(20:45):
or on a yacht or in a hospital, wherever your
location happens to be, I'm the last one to leave,
and I'm the last one to check out with the
owner or the manager who's managing the facility, to make
sure that I left it better than when I arrived.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
And you take pictures and you do all videos and everything.
When you arrive, you know exactly what it looked like
when you arrive.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
I want to make sure everything is bad.
Speaker 1 (21:16):
Yeah, there's times we arrive in locations that they're messy
and you leave them super neat.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Yeah that's me.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Which is great, you know, because it keeps the door
open for future shoots out Absolutely.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
You never know when you want to go back on
another project and use that same location again.
Speaker 1 (21:30):
Yeah, okay, So just talk about what you do has
a huge impact on what the film looks like ultimately.
Speaker 2 (21:36):
Well, I hope.
Speaker 3 (21:37):
So you know you work hard for that. I mean,
like when we were working for you, Jeff. We actually
had to hire rent a truck for all the props
and all the gear and catering, all the tables of
the I mean, there's just there's so much that goes
into those fifteen seventeen days of filming that people sometimes
(21:59):
don't realize.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
You know, Oh yeah, we need seating for our cast
and crew when they.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
Have lunch, you know exactly. I mean, you know, often
I said with location scouts, like people say, Okay, that's
a great location, but there's nowhere to have lunch, there's
nowhere to park. The logistics sometimes don't work out. Just
talk a little bit about catering because I know you're
very involved in that. You know, some people are very
appreciative that they're getting fed. Some aren't. Some have, you know,
lots of complaints.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Catering.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
Another word for it in the film industry is craft
or craft services. We want to make sure that the crew,
the cast and crew always has a way to go snack.
So we always have a table or an area set
up with drinks, with food, all kinds of snacks, everything
from nuts to you know, chocolate cake, you mention it.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
We try to provide.
Speaker 3 (22:50):
Every kind of snack for all those who are vegan
or non.
Speaker 2 (22:56):
GMO or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 3 (22:59):
And I want to tell you that was the challenging
part because when you're providing lunch.
Speaker 2 (23:04):
We were a low budget indie film.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
We don't have a catering truck coming up every lunch
day and you can put in your order. That's not
what we did. We actually ordered lunch from Rubios from.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Luney Grill Subway. Yeah, so it.
Speaker 3 (23:21):
Was difficult to please those who.
Speaker 2 (23:25):
Have special dietary needs.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
That's always a challenge and you do have to be
sensitive to it.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Kelly. As the production manager, you do like to partake
in the artistic side of the film, and I actually
appreciate your participation. But every once in a while you'll
come wandering over to me and give me some script
notes about say some actors or some scenes and something
like that, and sometimes I take them and sometimes I don't.
So how does that dynamic kind of figure itself out?
Speaker 3 (23:58):
There are times and you know, I'll look at the
monitor and look at a scene and go, I think
that needs you know, a flag on the other side
of the window, and you say no, no, no, no,
it's okay, And I remember one time I did it
anyway and you got mad at me. But there are
times when if the dialogue doesn't seem right, or if
(24:21):
the scene doesn't look right, or there's just something wrong,
I will go and whisper in your.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Ear and you may use it and you may not.
Doesn't hurt my feelings.
Speaker 3 (24:32):
I'm hoping that sometimes my thoughts are suggestions, maybe of help.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
I don't know if they are.
Speaker 3 (24:40):
Sometimes I'll say, wait, stop, we are missing something on
this table, and I'll run in and put something on
a table or on a desk, and then it slowed
down production for thirty seconds.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
I know, but it's often made it a lot better.
So here's what I'm going to say about your role.
When you do it properly, like you know, the way
I would use a production manager who is kind of
overlooking the artistic side of the shoot, You're paying attention
to the way we're telling the story. I mean, that's
what a director does. Obviously, they tell the story right,
So you are really paying attention to all the elements
(25:15):
of telling the story, everything from the look of the
sets to the look of the actors, the way they're dressed,
their makeup, their hair, to the whole script. Actually, what
they're saying, you're actually paying attention. Now, how many people
on set are actually doing that. It's me, the director, you,
and maybe the script supervisor. That's it. Everybody else is
just paying attention to the component that they're doing. Even
(25:38):
the cinematographer is only kind of looking at the shots.
Speaker 3 (25:41):
You know.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
I often tell my friends who asked me about filmmaking,
I say, you believe it or not, I'm going to
tell you that most of the crew doesn't even read
the script. They could go through a whole shooting day.
They could say, oh, yeah, we shot in a kitchen,
we shot in an office, we shot this, but they
don't really know what the scene was. Then they don't
really know what the story is until after they go
to the pre you're screening and see the whole movie
(26:01):
put together, which is okay with me. I don't have
a problem with that as long as they're you know,
lighting it properly and setting up the grip equipment, all
this kind of stuff. If everybody's doing their job, great,
But you you need to be involved in the storytelling.
You need to see it all come together. You need
to almost have the vision that a director has because
all of these components that you're working on matter, and
(26:23):
the little things make a big difference in how the
film's going to ultimately look. So I do appreciate that,
and I think that being a production manager the way
I define a production manager, Again, not everybody defines a
production manager that way. A lot of people there's a
crossover in sort of the line producing and more administrative stuff.
But the way I use you, it's almost like you
(26:43):
almost are like a co director in that you're paying
attention to a lot of the artistic elements. So even
though you know, I don't always agree on maybe some
of the directions of the storytelling, and you know, the
director gets the final say on that, and it's really
good to have somebody who's actually paying attention and saying, hey,
did you think about this or what about this? Because
there's so many things coming at you, so having an
(27:04):
extra set of eyes, you know, like obviously the script
supervisors paying attention to continuity a lot, as were you.
I mean, you really look out for continuity. Those are
things that are really important to do. So I asked
you the sort of the most challenging, aggravating part of
script producing, but what would you say would be the
reason why some low budget indie films are more successful
(27:24):
than others in terms of the shoot, not necessarily in
terms of the distribution of marketing, but in terms of
kind of staying on time and on budget and getting
the film to look as good as possible, even with
micro budgets.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
Well, there are a lot of aspects to that. First
of all, getting your core team together so we can
get your vision on camera. So that's our key point
is to make sure your vision.
Speaker 1 (27:51):
You mean being the director, the director, you being.
Speaker 3 (27:54):
The director, that we make sure that we get everything
you need there on and get those visuals, everything that
you have up here for this scene that it comes
to reality.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Let me just stop you there for a second. So
my style is I generally have a production meeting with
you guys every day so that we can share what's
going on, what little things are important. I do that
on a daily basis with you and the cinematographer and
the script supervisor.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Right, that's you know, your core team.
Speaker 3 (28:23):
So now we're all aware of what's going to be
happening that day. We should have anyway, but we want
your input because you'll go home at night and think, wow,
I think we should do this also in Chinese.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
You know more.
Speaker 3 (28:39):
Or you know, wow, it'd be great if we had
just this little you know, it's so great to be
able to communicate with you so we know what your
vision is and that makes our job a little easier.
So it's just you know, having that communication and the resources.
Like I said, if you're a production manager, I also
a set design I was like, you know, I was
handling props and I just had to make sure that
(29:01):
I had everything there just in case we needed it.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
Right. So obviously being organized, but having a good team
that is so critical. Having people around you who you trust. Actually,
you know, it's great if you have good chemistry and
you enjoy working with them, but trusting them knowing when
you say to do this or do this, they actually
get it done. And you know, I think a key
component to being successful and a low budget in you shoot.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
I agree, I totally agree.
Speaker 1 (29:28):
Okay, many closing thoughts on people who are thinking of
being a production manager.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
My like I said earlier, my only closing thought would
be to learn everything because, as Jeff says, my job
was everything. So learn as much as you can, even
if it's a department that may not interest you. Just
figure out the basics on some of those things. So
(29:54):
when problems do arise on set, it's your job, my job,
to be the problem solver and figure it out.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
You've got to figure it out.
Speaker 3 (30:06):
Because there is a crew waiting, there are actors waiting,
and you've got to have a solution.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
I agree, I totally agree. Er Well, Kelly, thank you
so much for taking the time to share your thoughts
and your experiences on the show. And I've always enjoy
working with you, as you know, and I hope to
next time I see on be on set.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
Agame
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