May 21, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode, Jeff Deverett sits down with wardrobe specialist and organizing expert Maribeth Moy to dive into the realities of managing wardrobe on a tight budget in indie filmmaking. Together, they explore the creative ways filmmakers can dress their actors without breaking the bank—often relying on items actors already own, thrifted pieces, or repurposed wardrobe elements.
Maribeth Moy shares insights on the resourcefulness and conscientiousness it takes to succeed in wardrobe for indie productions. From understanding character through clothing to building trust with actors while working within financial constraints, she emphasizes the importance of communication, creativity, and smart planning.
Whether you’re outfitting a cast with zero dollars or trying to make modern clothes look period-appropriate, this episode is packed with practical advice for filmmakers and wardrobe enthusiasts alike.
Key Takeaways:
Maribeth Moy shares insights on the resourcefulness and conscientiousness it takes to succeed in wardrobe for indie productions. From understanding character through clothing to building trust with actors while working within financial constraints, she emphasizes the importance of communication, creativity, and smart planning.
Whether you’re outfitting a cast with zero dollars or trying to make modern clothes look period-appropriate, this episode is packed with practical advice for filmmakers and wardrobe enthusiasts alike.
Key Takeaways:
- How to stretch your wardrobe budget without sacrificing quality
- The importance of working collaboratively with actors on their look
- Tips for organizing wardrobe racks and maintaining continuity on set
- Why a good wardrobe person is equal parts artist, planner, and problem solver
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
You want to make a great looking indie film, obviously
fantastic performances from your actors, but your actors have to
look great, and that's all about wardrobe or just look
the part. In today's episode, we're going to meet Mary
Beth Moy. She was the wardrobe person on my last
two films and she did a fantastic job. So I've
invited Mary Beth to tell us all about the trials
(00:21):
and tribulations of doing wardrobe properly and getting it done,
making your actors look great, and staying on budget. If
you want to be a successful indie filmmaker, you need
to know a lot about not just the production of movies,
but the business. We are going to tell you the
truth and reality of what really happens in the indie
(00:42):
film business. I think, hello, Mary Beth, welcome to the show.
Thanks for coming on. So, Mary Beth, you did wardrobe
on my last two movies, but in addition to that,
I think you did some other stuff. But why don't
you introduce yourself, tell us kind of who you are
and what you do in the movie business.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Okay, Hello, I'm Mary Beth, and I actually wear a
lot of hats in the film industry. I work as
a production coordinator for our church and I basically do
all of the live stream camera operation, conference organizations, anything live.
I do that. And I also work as an assistant
(01:24):
to a producer in Hollywood. So we've done movies like
Tarzan South Paul, so I've been his production coordinator for
like the last five years. And I do my own
little independent film production too. I've done a documentary myself
and my family and I have a small media marketing agency.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Mary Beth. First of all, I didn't know that about
the production coordinator thing because you did wardrobe on art.
I did wardrobe, did wardrobe, and you did a great job.
I thought, that's what's your specialty. But I'm learning more
about you. But your signature says the hustler queen. What's
not all about?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So I don't want to say like I wear a
lot of hats like it's actually I just corrected it.
It should be like the hustle queen because I can
wear a lot of hats. Like I said, my family
and I are building our own media company, so I can.
I can kind of do a little of everything. So
my first introduction to film is actually shooting my own documentary,
(02:26):
and obviously with that, I wore a lot of hats,
and the wardrobe and the costume actually came from us
as a family, again having our own clothing brand. And
I think because I just understand fabric and look and
feel and working with models and procuring materials and learning
(02:52):
where to shop, I think that's the reason why I
are you PM Kelly brought me into right.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Okay, Well, just because this episode is going to focus
primarily on wardrobe for low budget indie films, I'm going
to ask you a bunch of questions about that, but
then we're going to go back and you can fill
in all the gaps with all the other things you
do because you are multi talented. I can vouch for that.
I worked with you, and I know that you can
wear a lot of hats. Because ultimately, I'm going to say,
the most important skill that most people bring to the
(03:20):
movie industry, in probably any industry, is organization, and you
are extremely organized.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Oh thank you.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Okay, So I want to talk about wardrobe as it
relates to low budget indie filmmaking. You know a lot
of indie filmmakers often have no budget for wardrobe or
very limited funds. I didn't give you a big budget
on our shoot, but you were able to work with
the actors and figure things out. And so just explain
to somebody who's trying to manage the wardrobe department on
(03:47):
a low budget indishue kind of the things they have
to focus on and what they have to do to
be successful.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Well, first and foremos you actually have to speak with
the actor as far as their vision and what we
sent or ses stay have. For our principal actor, Marina,
you know, we told her that we had like a
certain look book and a certain feel for the film,
and she had her own set of wardrobe. I actually
(04:13):
met with her in person before the shoot and she
drove down from la and she gave me all of
her clothes.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Like suitcases full of clothing.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
She brought suitcases of clothes, And I know that initially
I needed to make that personal connection with the actor,
especially if you don't have any budget. I just wanted
to determine what's in their closet and whatever is not
in their closet. I need to figure out what I
need to borrow, and I needed to figure out what
I needed to be thrifted. So that's basically what we
(04:44):
did with God is good.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Can you tell me how do actors generally feel about
when you say to them, what do you have in
your wardrobe? Like what can we use? Are they generally
respectful and cooperative?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Oh? They are extremely extremely cooperative. Immediately they would start
sending me pictures of like certain outfits. I mean, they
would like, Okay, what do you think of this? What
do you think of that? What do you think of that?
And they generally, because they want to look good on
the screen, they want to work with you. And that's
(05:16):
just the first thing I really tell the actors when
I work with them is like, Okay, I want you
to look good, so please show me the best that
you have.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
And relative to sort of what the story is and
the period and you know, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Relative to what the story is and relative to what
your role is. And then and let me know what
I need to either thrift, borrow or write or borrow
from Jeff exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Okay. So as in contrast, a big budget shoot would
never even ask the actors to bring wardrobe. They just
come for a fitting. Then the wardrobe department either create
or buy outfits for them. Nobody would ever be asked
to bring their own. That's a big contrast between big
budget and low budget filmmaking.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yes, that's right.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
But you know, my experience is that is that actors
are totally cooperative in terms of wardrobe. So, now I
saw you on set. There were times when you had
I don't know, ten to fifteen characters going at a
time on those racks, and how do you organize it?
So you make sure that number one, you have everything
you need when you need it, and number two continuity.
Let's talk a little bit about that. So the first
(06:26):
in terms of organizing, making sure that it's there, like
do you just collect all the clothes at the beginning
of the shoot or what do you do?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
So, yes, I do. I collect all of the clothes
in the beginning of the shoot, and if I don't
have them, I would definitely have pictures. And the way
that Marina and I like it was definitely a team
effort between Marina and I.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Marina was the lead actor in one of the movies
we shot, so that's who that is.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, And then the way that I approached it is
I really had to do my pre planning, so I
took the score and I really broke it down seen
by seeing character by character, and I put it into
a spreadsheet and then I wrote down, per line item,
what that particular outfit looks like. I just kind of
(07:12):
need to look at the big story, like from a
macro level and also from a micro level. And it
also helped me organize and I knew what I needed
to if there was a hole, and based on a
spreadsheet that I created, I can sort and filter and
I knew exactly the number of outfits or in a
number of combinations I needed, And based on that, then
(07:35):
I can tell the actor, like, hey, you know, you're
going to be wearing ten unique combinations, but not necessarily
unique pieces. And that's kind of when their creativity comes in,
Like you know, you just kind of need to Like
sometimes you don't really know until you have it, because
they may send you a photo and it looks good
(07:55):
and then they bring it in and the color doesn't match,
or the principal actor is wearing something that's quite a contrast.
So just always ask for extra outfits for them to
bring and most of them just have lots of options.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Right, you have options? Okay, Now continuity, let's talk about that.
So continuity like movies aren't shot in order for those
of you who don't know that, and meaning you could
shoot let's say a scene where the lead actor, Marina
goes to an office and then the next scene she's
walking to her car in the parking lot, but she
needs to be wearing the same outfit because they're back
to back scenes. But we're not going to be shooting
(08:33):
them back to back. Yeah, so how do you manage
continuity in make because it's so important because if you
get that wrong, then we can't use the shot. Then
the edit.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
So I was using an app and I was also
using my phones. I take a picture of everybody, and
then I would edit on the fly. The actual photo
would just you know, I would actually write scene thirteen.
And then not only do I take a picture of
their outfit, I take a picture of their hair and
(09:02):
their makeup too, because I work side by side with
hair and makeup, right, And then when I do that,
I just kind of file it day by day. I mean,
I really can't stress how organized you have to be.
And then if we're shooting the following day, I double
check with our script supervisor because there's a redundancy there,
(09:24):
So I check with our script supervisor to make sure
that we're in line as far as continuity, we're coordinated.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah, you're coordinated. Our script supervisor. Her name was Laurie.
She was fantastic. I know you guys have a really
good relationship, you and Laurie, and I know that the
two of you were paying very close attention to continuity,
which is your jobs. You know, Laurie's job. Part of
script supervising is continuity obviously, So what challenges came up? Like,
were there times when Laurie would say, no, no, I
(09:51):
think it's this, and you would say, no, here's the photos.
I remember you guys going back to old photos and
checking things out, because it can get confusing when you're
shooting a.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, it can get confusing. And it happens more with
men's attire because the suits are also dark, like sometimes
a navy blue looks like black. Like with women's clothes,
like a floral dress is pretty easy to spot. So, like,
I know that one challenge I had was I had
Mark actually switched his jacket. I had it clearly labeled
(10:23):
on a rack, and then we came back from lunch
and he grabbed the one that's not labeled and I
couldn't tell because the one that I labeled was a
black jacket and he put on a navy blue jacket.
So for me, that was like the challenge.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Well, how did we catch that? Did LORI catch it?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Well? I took a picture of it, and I like
really double checked myself, and I'm like, wait a minute,
wait a minute, why is the one that's tag still here?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Oh I see, okay, yeah, I shouldn't have fed a
tag on it.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Yeah, it looks like the one he's wearing. So I
actually had to stop. I actually had to tell you
to cut, and then I just set holed for or
wardrobe and I looked at my picture again, I'm like, oh, yeah,
indeed it was.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
I mean, as the director, I mean, I really appreciate
that you're paying that much attention, obviously, because I'm not.
I should be, but I got other things on my mind.
So you know, it's super helpful to know that you
and the script you are doing that kind of stuff,
because otherwise, like I said, you can't use the shot.
It won't match. Yeah, okay, So what would you say
is the most challenging component to wardrobe on a low
(11:28):
budget indie shoot?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
The most challenging. I think there are some certain items
that can't be borrowed or thrifted, and trying to find
those sometimes as could be a challenging. Let's just say,
if you're looking for like a specific evening gown, I
think high item and expensive pieces would be a challenge
to find sometimes.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Like you needed a tuxedo that time.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Well, I needed a tuxedo and immediately I thought, oh,
you know what, we can rent it for two hundred dollars,
which I thought was pretty reasonable. But then you told
me that you had a tuxedo yes, and I was like, okay,
I mean not everybody has a tuxedo. So I think
really being resourceful and being open and having time to
(12:14):
procure the item is key.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
How much time do you need leading into Like the
more time the better obviously leading into the shoot. Like
I always say, my rule of thumb is for every
week of shooting, you should give yourself at least three
weeks of pre production. Three to one. It's four to
one is better, five to one is better. It just
depends on how much you can afford, you know, to
bring people on earlier and pay people. But when it
comes to wardrobe realistically, again, trying to balance you know,
(12:40):
budget versus what the ultimate situation would be like, you know,
lots of time. How much time do you think a
wardrobe person needs a head of the shoot to prepare everything,
assuming it's not like crazy you know, special effects, costumes
and that type of thing.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Like in an indie situation. Yeah, minimum four weeks.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Four weeks, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Minimum four weeks. Yeah, Like my workflow for me to
break down the character and do the line item for wardrobe,
that took me like maybe eight hours, not continuous eight hours,
but eight hours total. And then to get in contact
with each actor and find out and get an inventory
(13:18):
of their wardrobe and then trying to just kind of
piece it together. But the magic doesn't really happen until
you have the pieces with you and you're actually touching
them and making those combinations.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
So you use the word thrifting meaning going to thrift
shops and that type of thing. Fine.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, Like for a Marina, I'll tell you a little
bit about the code that we use because in the movie,
we have we call it the Marina one point oh
where she was pre wealth, pre wealth, and then we
have a Marina two point oh, and then we have
the Marina three point oh. So that was our code,
That was my code between her and the makeup and actors.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
But I just explained that. Let me explain that to
the audience because I know the story well obviously. Yeah, yeah,
this is a rags to richest story if somebody's kind
of starting with nothing and living the American dream and
making it through the system becoming a very successful real
estate agent. So one point zero would be very basic,
simple clothing. Two point zero would be she's kind of
got a job now and she's working, and then three
point zero is she's made it and she's living bigger, right,
(14:24):
more or less.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, So the one point oh is what we thrifted,
which makes sense, yeah, and the two point zho is
some of her clothes, and the three point oh is
really all hers with just me combining them and giving
it like a little more flair that she thought that
she would never do as a combination.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
And that worked. I wasn't really paying attention for where
you were getting the clothes, but I should know this.
I'm going to ask you in front of my whole audience,
but this question, but what kind of budget were you
working on on that for the whole movie, not just
for her character.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I don't think I was actually given a budget jacket.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, because I know you were working for the production manager.
I wasn't really involved, and that was Kelly's job to
kind of work with you on that.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Well, I can tell you how much we spent thrifting,
because you know, you buy a piece for like three
dollars or five dollars. I don't think we spent more
than fifty bucks because each item is like three to
five dollars.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Thrifting stuff, Yeah, thrifting. But did we need to buy
some fancy Did we buy gown or anything like that?
Did we have to buy No?
Speaker 2 (15:30):
No, we didn't have to buy a gown because our actress,
Margaret Margaret, she actually owned several and it was just
a matter of us selecting which one was best for
the scene. But our actress, I mean typically an actress
or an actor would have something formal that they would
wear to a red carpet, right, So you're guaranteed that outfit,
(15:55):
and an actor typically has a suit, so you're guaranteed
that outfit. Multiple of those. Sometimes it's not guaranteed, but
typically an actor would have certain pieces.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Right there, was there anything sort of extraordinary unusual that
you'd have to you're not going to find in a
thrift shop or like like, I don't I'm just gonna
make this up like a fireman's outfit or you know,
character style stuff, uniforms or something. Did we need any.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Well, I know I can borrow those too.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Oh you can borrow if it's.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
A fireman, I know I can borrow. I mean I can.
I can kind of borrow pretty much a lot of things.
I think that's kind of where being you know, resourceful
comes in. I mean, I'm I'm a mother of three,
and between my boys and their friends, I feel like
someone knows a firefighter, someone knows a nurse, someone I
(16:45):
can borrow scrubs, you know, and my neighbors. I feel like,
if you have the time, really you can. You can
borrow a lot of the costume and the wardrobe.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Right, But then there is time sort of management too.
I remember times when like we were talking about the
lab coats we needed in the other film that we
were doing. I mean, it almost didn't make sense to
borrow them because they were so inexpensive to purchase them,
and we needed so many, and we just needed them
when we needed them. So it was just like scrubs
and lab coats and stuff like that, or those are
just easier to have on hand.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, well like lab coats. How much were they They
were like twenty bucks twenty five exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yes, we just needed, you know, six or seven of
them just to have them different sizes and fits. How
long have you been doing wardrobe in your career. I
know you've done a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Well, Jeff, that was that was my first rodeo.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
That was it really for wardrobe.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
That was my first time doing wardrobe. I mean I've
done like a lot of indie films where I do.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Yeah, you just haven't done it full time.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
But to be a dedicated wardrobe that was literally my first.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Okay, so I'm going to pay you a compliment. Then
we're gonna have a little discussion. You certainly on me fooled.
I mean, you did a great job. No, no, I
shouldn't even say it that way. You did a great job.
And as I said at the beginning the episode, I
mean it's because you're so organized, and I think when
somebody's organized the way you are and resourceful, then you
could probably do any job you want, which is like
what you said, and so does that what you think
(18:12):
the skill sets required to be a successful wardrobe person
or but you also said you know clothes, I mean,
you know fabrics, you know looks.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, I think I mean that definitely helps. And just
because I have my family and I have a clothing company,
that definitely helps. But I think it really just comes
down to being resourceful. You just got a hustle, and
I mean, I truly believe in a project, and I
truly believe in making an impact, and I just I
(18:41):
just want to do good and everything I do, I
really do.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, because you're conscientious. But I remember when Kelly said
that she's going to hire you. Kelly's our production court manager,
and she was the one who was looking for wardrobe
and make up on all these people. So and I
don't even think I asked her whether you had done
wardrobe before. I try us her so much that I
just assumed that she interviewed you. And and the truth
(19:04):
is you were a good choice. I would use you
on every one of my movies because of just thank you, Jeff.
I don't know if you want to do ardrobe in
every movie, because we're going to talk about the other
things you do in a second. But for you know,
for our listeners to be successful in that area, I
think i'm hearing you got to be resourceful and organized,
and you've got to know style a little bit, right, Yeah,
(19:24):
I think you understand. I have to understand the story.
And you know, our movies were pretty straightforward because they
were both contemporary. You know, the wardrobe was today. If
they're period pieces or special effects or other things you know,
that require a little bit more involved than it's I
think it's a little more I'm going to say, challenging
and intricate.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah. I think the one thing that I really wanted
with this film, as I wanted to have a really
good relationship with the actors, I just want them to
trust me and I want them to feel like they
look great. And I think ones I earn that trust,
they would just go out of your way to really
(20:06):
just be resourceful if you can't procure like a certain item.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
So there's something else that you take for granted that
I don't. And I maybe you haven't heard this before,
but I think it's very important for the wardrobe people
and the hair and makeup people to be friendly and
kind of chill because you guys are getting the actors
ready to come on set, and they need to be relaxed,
no anxiety. Especially the hair and makeup people have a
(20:33):
lot of time with them in that chair chit chat.
Sometimes I say, you're taking too much time, right, but no,
because remember they're dressing in front of you, and they
got to feel comfortable with you, and you got to
be friendly with them. So and you have that personality
type which is great. Were there any times on set
where it was just something crazy happened or really difficult situation,
(20:58):
or any times when you know, as opposed to when
it goes well, were there any moments when it was just,
holy smokes, we're in trouble here.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Well, sorry, Jeff, I'm gonna have to pick on you.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Is that? Okay? I was supposed to bring something that
I didn't bring.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Right, It wasn't quite hairy, But I remember it was
actually the second day of the shoot. And I'll tell
you this, when I did my spreadsheet, Margaret has sixty unique,
sixty outfits, just according to a spreadsheet, Okay, And I
think they actually prefaced me by saying, don't panic, We're
(21:33):
going to shoot a montage and we need seven outfits
like now and I'm like, okay.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Imber, I remember that, Dana, I remember. I remember.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I was like Cardigans. It's kind of like how I like,
fix it Cardigans, change your hair and like silly, take
off your jacket, let's borrow that. So, I mean, I
think that was one of the craziest moments. And I
think also when you have a client and they have
(22:07):
like a specific look that they're looking for and they're
on the set and if it's not quite aligned to what.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Their vision is.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
I took that one hard because I was like, oh, oh,
I wish I had more time. I wish I had
you know, I wish I had gotten this piece. But
sometimes in a grand scheme of the movie, like those
things that you worry so much about you'd think are
such a big deal, is such a micro second within
the film that it kind of balances itself out.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Okay, but you are I mean you have a very
even keeled personality. You're organized, and you're a doer, so
you're able to deal with challenges. You know, clearly, I
could see that on set. Okay, so I know that
you know, you weren't working on a big budget on
the shoot, but on average. Let's say I'm going to
just set the parameter. You know, everything's different, obviously, it
(22:59):
depends on the script, the setting, the scenes, every of
the characters, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, but let's say,
on say, on an average on a half a million
dollar budget film, what do you think the wardrobe budget?
What would be reasonable? Do you think would make sense?
And what would you normally be working with.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
For half a million dollar budget.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
It's funny, it's I think that's more of a line
producer question than it is a a wardrobe pise. Basically,
the producer going to say, here's what you got to
work with, and then you got to say I can
do it or I can't do it. Yeah, I'm going
to give an answer, though, I'm going to say, I'm
going to say twenty thousand. Twenty thousand, Yeah, that would
be the number that I would allocate. Now, you did
(23:37):
it for way less than that because of how conscientious
and you are in terms of, like you say, thrifting
and doing that. But also the films that we worked
on together really didn't require There weren't really any tremendous
special needs there.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right, it didn't really require.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Anything unusual unusual, but I would say twenty would be
twenty to twenty five. Yeah, that's what I say.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Is that like a certain percentage of like the budget.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Or I don't really do it as a percentage. I
kind of do it as a sort of a number
based on the style of film. So if it was
a period piece, I wouldn't even attempt to do it
that number. But a period piece would at least be
two and a half to three times that fifty to
sixty thousand, because you got to get it right, and
then you're eating up a good chunk of your budget
(24:24):
just with wardrobe and other things like you know, props,
cars and locations and stuff like that. So super super
expensive to shoot a period piece properly. You need more
money to do it properly. But it's all relative, right,
because you know, some people can make these epic, gigantic
films for half a million, Like a half a million.
People woulday, I'll make five films for you, right if
you're used to micro budget films, And then people who
(24:46):
work on big budget films would say, I mean that's
our catering budget, you know, that's like that is our wardrobe.
But five hundred thousands our wardrobe budget. You know that
the shooting budget is ten million, right, So it's a
it is all relative. Now let's just switch gears for
a second. So you've worn many hats, more so than
I knew about in indie filmmaking and just in general
(25:09):
the indie film business. I mean, what do you think
about it? I mean, I know you love filmmaking, but
it's challenging business. I mean, what's your perspective.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
I mean it is, it's truly challenging. But there's nothing
else I'd rather be doing. I mean, I make very
little money to sometimes you know, nothing, so I have
to just really have my hands on a lot of
things just to kind of even it out. There's some
(25:37):
gigs that I do that are like my bread and butter.
Being on a set is what I love, but there's
not a lot of production here in San Diego. And
also the challenge for me is because I have three boys,
I want to be home and I want to be around.
I don't have the flexibility of a single person who
could just like run off to New Mexico or Atlanta
(25:59):
or Montreal. So I mean I do what I can locally.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
What if one of your children said to Hi, mom,
I see what you're doing. Looks great. I want to
be a filmmaker. What's your advice.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Well, actually, my son right now, who attended call Poly
with a degree in Information systems, is in film. He
is doing a lot of social media, video and marketing.
And I tell him, you're twenty three years old, you
have this huge potential. I mean, I didn't get into
a film until I was early forties, so this is
(26:34):
a second early forties.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
You told me you were thirty nine.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Thanks, Jeff, I didn't. I mean, film is a second
career for me. But I truly deeply encourage my kids
to be creative. I think there's so many avenues, so
many ways to be creative nowadays. And we always collaborate too.
(26:59):
That's one thing that I love doing with them, was
the collaboration. They definitely have a certain style that I
truly admire, and I mimic and I love being around
I love being around young people. I just love their creativity.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
You know, I think it's important for young people to
have a nice balance between pursuing their creative dreams and
perhaps having more realistic path that might they might have
to take if the dreams don't actually come to be,
which is not often the case, but it's important to
pursue them.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
You can be a professor exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Okay, So Marybeth, tell me what else you do. What's
your favorite thing in the film business to do. I mean,
I got to say you're very good at wardrobe, and
as I told you, I would definitely use your gain.
But maybe there's other things that I didn't know about,
like where's your strengths and your interests.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I feel like my strength is kind of coordination and planning.
Laurie and I are actually producing a film along with
two other friends, and we're we're going to start filming
next Tuesday for two weeks. So I like kind of
like the coordination part of filmmaking. I'm not necessarily like
(28:10):
the camera or the editor, but I love like the
coordination aspect of things, working with budget, casting, figuring out location.
So from that producing sense, that's what I like. I
like working with people.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
And this film that you're doing with LORI are you
the line producer? What's your role?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I am Actually I'm the second AD. I'm also the
locations manager and I'm probably going to be the second
AC too. On the set and props master.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
So you do wear a lot of different hats.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
So it's going to be a lot a lot of hats.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Well, I got to say that that that's kind of
what you just defined is sort of indie filmmaking. I
mean generally a lot of people have to wear a
lot of different hats and be able to go and
take a pick up a role that somebody else has
isn't doing, or that you don't afford to hire somebody for.
So I find that in you know, depending on whether
it's low budget or micro budget, and depending on how
(29:11):
aggressive the shoot is, that people do wear lots of
different hats and you need to.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
You need to, like for this film that we're doing,
I mean, we have two gaffers, and one gaffer is
going to double as our boom operator. I mean one
light is set up, he's gonna be our boom operator.
And that's that's what you just have to do.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yeah, I think it's actually efficient and effective to do
that as long as people are okay with it, and
you know, people who are working a lot in indie
low budgeting films understand that that's what goes on and
needs to go on.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
And also in indie film, everybody wants to learn a
lot of skills. I think it just makes you more
more marketable.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
What's your final ultimate goal? Do you want to be
a director? Do you want to be a producer.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
I want to be a director.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Oh, you want to direct?
Speaker 2 (29:56):
I'm actually I mean I've been writing too, written like
three stream plays myself, but I want to direct.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Have you tried your hand at financing yet?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Not yet? When I get there, I know who to call.
I know who to call, I know who to contact.
Thank you for.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
That's that's sort of the gate keeper right there, the finance.
But I know that you're conscientious and you will figure
out a way around all of that.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
We'll figure it out once it's time.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yeah, okay, Well, I mean, once again, I got to
tell you had me fooled. You did a great job.
You were super organized, and I think you could teach
a lot of people how to do wardrobe properly because
we had no continuity issues we had. We had lots
of wardrobe changes and lots of set changes and stuff,
and everything went smoothly. And I attribute that to the
(30:49):
people who are managing it, like you and all the
others on the team. So well done, and I appreciate
you taking the time to come on the show. Any
final words that you want to share with the indie
making audience.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
I think he is a composure under pressure.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
I agree, that's just.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
That's that's just how you have to roll.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
When the heat gets turns up, you don't blow the gasket.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, and Jeff, I thank you. You're an amazing director.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yeah, well, thank you. Appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
It was truly a pleasure working with you.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Okay, Well, thanks again for coming on and I look
forward to the next time we work together. I agree
with Mary Beth that probably the most important component of
being a good wardrobe person is the same as it
is for most positions, which is just being super conscientious,
resourceful and really taking the job seriously and giving it
your best. And then of course having some talent and
(31:44):
a good eye helps a lot. But being a very productive, resourceful,
organized person is a game changer. All right, Well, that's
it for this week. I hope you learned a lot
about wardrobe and how their tips about indie filmmaking. As always,
if you have more questions or want more detail else,
feel free to email me directly. J Deverett J D.
(32:04):
E V E R e T T at Deverorrettmedia dot com.
I look forward to hearing from you. H
You want to make a great looking indie film, obviously
fantastic performances from your actors, but your actors have to
look great, and that's all about wardrobe or just look
the part. In today's episode, we're going to meet Mary
Beth Moy. She was the wardrobe person on my last
two films and she did a fantastic job. So I've
invited Mary Beth to tell us all about the trials
(00:21):
and tribulations of doing wardrobe properly and getting it done,
making your actors look great, and staying on budget. If
you want to be a successful indie filmmaker, you need
to know a lot about not just the production of movies,
but the business. We are going to tell you the
truth and reality of what really happens in the indie
(00:42):
film business. I think, hello, Mary Beth, welcome to the show.
Thanks for coming on. So, Mary Beth, you did wardrobe
on my last two movies, but in addition to that,
I think you did some other stuff. But why don't
you introduce yourself, tell us kind of who you are
and what you do in the movie business.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Okay, Hello, I'm Mary Beth, and I actually wear a
lot of hats in the film industry. I work as
a production coordinator for our church and I basically do
all of the live stream camera operation, conference organizations, anything live.
I do that. And I also work as an assistant
(01:24):
to a producer in Hollywood. So we've done movies like
Tarzan South Paul, so I've been his production coordinator for
like the last five years. And I do my own
little independent film production too. I've done a documentary myself
and my family and I have a small media marketing agency.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Mary Beth. First of all, I didn't know that about
the production coordinator thing because you did wardrobe on art.
I did wardrobe, did wardrobe, and you did a great job.
I thought, that's what's your specialty. But I'm learning more
about you. But your signature says the hustler queen. What's
not all about?
Speaker 2 (02:03):
So I don't want to say like I wear a
lot of hats like it's actually I just corrected it.
It should be like the hustle queen because I can
wear a lot of hats. Like I said, my family
and I are building our own media company, so I can.
I can kind of do a little of everything. So
my first introduction to film is actually shooting my own documentary,
(02:26):
and obviously with that, I wore a lot of hats,
and the wardrobe and the costume actually came from us
as a family, again having our own clothing brand. And
I think because I just understand fabric and look and
feel and working with models and procuring materials and learning
(02:52):
where to shop, I think that's the reason why I
are you PM Kelly brought me into right.
Speaker 1 (02:59):
Okay, Well, just because this episode is going to focus
primarily on wardrobe for low budget indie films, I'm going
to ask you a bunch of questions about that, but
then we're going to go back and you can fill
in all the gaps with all the other things you
do because you are multi talented. I can vouch for that.
I worked with you, and I know that you can
wear a lot of hats. Because ultimately, I'm going to say,
the most important skill that most people bring to the
(03:20):
movie industry, in probably any industry, is organization, and you
are extremely organized.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Oh thank you.
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Okay, So I want to talk about wardrobe as it
relates to low budget indie filmmaking. You know a lot
of indie filmmakers often have no budget for wardrobe or
very limited funds. I didn't give you a big budget
on our shoot, but you were able to work with
the actors and figure things out. And so just explain
to somebody who's trying to manage the wardrobe department on
(03:47):
a low budget indishue kind of the things they have
to focus on and what they have to do to
be successful.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Well, first and foremos you actually have to speak with
the actor as far as their vision and what we
sent or ses stay have. For our principal actor, Marina,
you know, we told her that we had like a
certain look book and a certain feel for the film,
and she had her own set of wardrobe. I actually
(04:13):
met with her in person before the shoot and she
drove down from la and she gave me all of
her clothes.
Speaker 1 (04:20):
Like suitcases full of clothing.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
She brought suitcases of clothes, And I know that initially
I needed to make that personal connection with the actor,
especially if you don't have any budget. I just wanted
to determine what's in their closet and whatever is not
in their closet. I need to figure out what I
need to borrow, and I needed to figure out what
I needed to be thrifted. So that's basically what we
(04:44):
did with God is good.
Speaker 1 (04:46):
Can you tell me how do actors generally feel about
when you say to them, what do you have in
your wardrobe? Like what can we use? Are they generally
respectful and cooperative?
Speaker 2 (04:56):
Oh? They are extremely extremely cooperative. Immediately they would start
sending me pictures of like certain outfits. I mean, they
would like, Okay, what do you think of this? What
do you think of that? What do you think of that?
And they generally, because they want to look good on
the screen, they want to work with you. And that's
(05:16):
just the first thing I really tell the actors when
I work with them is like, Okay, I want you
to look good, so please show me the best that
you have.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
And relative to sort of what the story is and
the period and you know, yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Relative to what the story is and relative to what
your role is. And then and let me know what
I need to either thrift, borrow or write or borrow
from Jeff exactly.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
Okay. So as in contrast, a big budget shoot would
never even ask the actors to bring wardrobe. They just
come for a fitting. Then the wardrobe department either create
or buy outfits for them. Nobody would ever be asked
to bring their own. That's a big contrast between big
budget and low budget filmmaking.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Yes, that's right.
Speaker 1 (06:04):
But you know, my experience is that is that actors
are totally cooperative in terms of wardrobe. So, now I
saw you on set. There were times when you had
I don't know, ten to fifteen characters going at a
time on those racks, and how do you organize it?
So you make sure that number one, you have everything
you need when you need it, and number two continuity.
Let's talk a little bit about that. So the first
(06:26):
in terms of organizing, making sure that it's there, like
do you just collect all the clothes at the beginning
of the shoot or what do you do?
Speaker 2 (06:32):
So, yes, I do. I collect all of the clothes
in the beginning of the shoot, and if I don't
have them, I would definitely have pictures. And the way
that Marina and I like it was definitely a team
effort between Marina and I.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Marina was the lead actor in one of the movies
we shot, so that's who that is.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, And then the way that I approached it is
I really had to do my pre planning, so I
took the score and I really broke it down seen
by seeing character by character, and I put it into
a spreadsheet and then I wrote down, per line item,
what that particular outfit looks like. I just kind of
(07:12):
need to look at the big story, like from a
macro level and also from a micro level. And it
also helped me organize and I knew what I needed
to if there was a hole, and based on a
spreadsheet that I created, I can sort and filter and
I knew exactly the number of outfits or in a
number of combinations I needed, And based on that, then
(07:35):
I can tell the actor, like, hey, you know, you're
going to be wearing ten unique combinations, but not necessarily
unique pieces. And that's kind of when their creativity comes in,
Like you know, you just kind of need to Like
sometimes you don't really know until you have it, because
they may send you a photo and it looks good
(07:55):
and then they bring it in and the color doesn't match,
or the principal actor is wearing something that's quite a contrast.
So just always ask for extra outfits for them to
bring and most of them just have lots of options.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Right, you have options? Okay, Now continuity, let's talk about that.
So continuity like movies aren't shot in order for those
of you who don't know that, and meaning you could
shoot let's say a scene where the lead actor, Marina
goes to an office and then the next scene she's
walking to her car in the parking lot, but she
needs to be wearing the same outfit because they're back
to back scenes. But we're not going to be shooting
(08:33):
them back to back. Yeah, so how do you manage
continuity in make because it's so important because if you
get that wrong, then we can't use the shot. Then
the edit.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
So I was using an app and I was also
using my phones. I take a picture of everybody, and
then I would edit on the fly. The actual photo
would just you know, I would actually write scene thirteen.
And then not only do I take a picture of
their outfit, I take a picture of their hair and
(09:02):
their makeup too, because I work side by side with
hair and makeup, right, And then when I do that,
I just kind of file it day by day. I mean,
I really can't stress how organized you have to be.
And then if we're shooting the following day, I double
check with our script supervisor because there's a redundancy there,
(09:24):
So I check with our script supervisor to make sure
that we're in line as far as continuity, we're coordinated.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
Yeah, you're coordinated. Our script supervisor. Her name was Laurie.
She was fantastic. I know you guys have a really
good relationship, you and Laurie, and I know that the
two of you were paying very close attention to continuity,
which is your jobs. You know, Laurie's job. Part of
script supervising is continuity obviously, So what challenges came up? Like,
were there times when Laurie would say, no, no, I
(09:51):
think it's this, and you would say, no, here's the photos.
I remember you guys going back to old photos and
checking things out, because it can get confusing when you're
shooting a.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Yeah, it can get confusing. And it happens more with
men's attire because the suits are also dark, like sometimes
a navy blue looks like black. Like with women's clothes,
like a floral dress is pretty easy to spot. So, like,
I know that one challenge I had was I had
Mark actually switched his jacket. I had it clearly labeled
(10:23):
on a rack, and then we came back from lunch
and he grabbed the one that's not labeled and I
couldn't tell because the one that I labeled was a
black jacket and he put on a navy blue jacket.
So for me, that was like the challenge.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
Well, how did we catch that? Did LORI catch it?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Well? I took a picture of it, and I like
really double checked myself, and I'm like, wait a minute,
wait a minute, why is the one that's tag still here?
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Oh I see, okay, yeah, I shouldn't have fed a
tag on it.
Speaker 2 (10:53):
Yeah, it looks like the one he's wearing. So I
actually had to stop. I actually had to tell you
to cut, and then I just set holed for or
wardrobe and I looked at my picture again, I'm like, oh, yeah,
indeed it was.
Speaker 1 (11:06):
I mean, as the director, I mean, I really appreciate
that you're paying that much attention, obviously, because I'm not.
I should be, but I got other things on my mind.
So you know, it's super helpful to know that you
and the script you are doing that kind of stuff,
because otherwise, like I said, you can't use the shot.
It won't match. Yeah, okay, So what would you say
is the most challenging component to wardrobe on a low
(11:28):
budget indie shoot?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
The most challenging. I think there are some certain items
that can't be borrowed or thrifted, and trying to find
those sometimes as could be a challenging. Let's just say,
if you're looking for like a specific evening gown, I
think high item and expensive pieces would be a challenge
to find sometimes.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
Like you needed a tuxedo that time.
Speaker 2 (11:54):
Well, I needed a tuxedo and immediately I thought, oh,
you know what, we can rent it for two hundred dollars,
which I thought was pretty reasonable. But then you told
me that you had a tuxedo yes, and I was like, okay,
I mean not everybody has a tuxedo. So I think
really being resourceful and being open and having time to
(12:14):
procure the item is key.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
How much time do you need leading into Like the
more time the better obviously leading into the shoot. Like
I always say, my rule of thumb is for every
week of shooting, you should give yourself at least three
weeks of pre production. Three to one. It's four to
one is better, five to one is better. It just
depends on how much you can afford, you know, to
bring people on earlier and pay people. But when it
comes to wardrobe realistically, again, trying to balance you know,
(12:40):
budget versus what the ultimate situation would be like, you know,
lots of time. How much time do you think a
wardrobe person needs a head of the shoot to prepare everything,
assuming it's not like crazy you know, special effects, costumes
and that type of thing.
Speaker 2 (12:52):
Like in an indie situation. Yeah, minimum four weeks.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Four weeks, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
Minimum four weeks. Yeah, Like my workflow for me to
break down the character and do the line item for wardrobe,
that took me like maybe eight hours, not continuous eight hours,
but eight hours total. And then to get in contact
with each actor and find out and get an inventory
(13:18):
of their wardrobe and then trying to just kind of
piece it together. But the magic doesn't really happen until
you have the pieces with you and you're actually touching
them and making those combinations.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
So you use the word thrifting meaning going to thrift
shops and that type of thing. Fine.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, Like for a Marina, I'll tell you a little
bit about the code that we use because in the movie,
we have we call it the Marina one point oh
where she was pre wealth, pre wealth, and then we
have a Marina two point oh, and then we have
the Marina three point oh. So that was our code,
That was my code between her and the makeup and actors.
Speaker 1 (14:01):
But I just explained that. Let me explain that to
the audience because I know the story well obviously. Yeah, yeah,
this is a rags to richest story if somebody's kind
of starting with nothing and living the American dream and
making it through the system becoming a very successful real
estate agent. So one point zero would be very basic,
simple clothing. Two point zero would be she's kind of
got a job now and she's working, and then three
point zero is she's made it and she's living bigger, right,
(14:24):
more or less.
Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, So the one point oh is what we thrifted,
which makes sense, yeah, and the two point zho is
some of her clothes, and the three point oh is
really all hers with just me combining them and giving
it like a little more flair that she thought that
she would never do as a combination.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
And that worked. I wasn't really paying attention for where
you were getting the clothes, but I should know this.
I'm going to ask you in front of my whole audience,
but this question, but what kind of budget were you
working on on that for the whole movie, not just
for her character.
Speaker 2 (15:00):
I don't think I was actually given a budget jacket.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
Yeah, because I know you were working for the production manager.
I wasn't really involved, and that was Kelly's job to
kind of work with you on that.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Well, I can tell you how much we spent thrifting,
because you know, you buy a piece for like three
dollars or five dollars. I don't think we spent more
than fifty bucks because each item is like three to
five dollars.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
Thrifting stuff, Yeah, thrifting. But did we need to buy
some fancy Did we buy gown or anything like that?
Did we have to buy No?
Speaker 2 (15:30):
No, we didn't have to buy a gown because our actress,
Margaret Margaret, she actually owned several and it was just
a matter of us selecting which one was best for
the scene. But our actress, I mean typically an actress
or an actor would have something formal that they would
wear to a red carpet, right, So you're guaranteed that outfit,
(15:55):
and an actor typically has a suit, so you're guaranteed
that outfit. Multiple of those. Sometimes it's not guaranteed, but
typically an actor would have certain pieces.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Right there, was there anything sort of extraordinary unusual that
you'd have to you're not going to find in a
thrift shop or like like, I don't I'm just gonna
make this up like a fireman's outfit or you know,
character style stuff, uniforms or something. Did we need any.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
Well, I know I can borrow those too.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Oh you can borrow if it's.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
A fireman, I know I can borrow. I mean I can.
I can kind of borrow pretty much a lot of things.
I think that's kind of where being you know, resourceful
comes in. I mean, I'm I'm a mother of three,
and between my boys and their friends, I feel like
someone knows a firefighter, someone knows a nurse, someone I
(16:45):
can borrow scrubs, you know, and my neighbors. I feel like,
if you have the time, really you can. You can
borrow a lot of the costume and the wardrobe.
Speaker 1 (16:57):
Right, But then there is time sort of management too.
I remember times when like we were talking about the
lab coats we needed in the other film that we
were doing. I mean, it almost didn't make sense to
borrow them because they were so inexpensive to purchase them,
and we needed so many, and we just needed them
when we needed them. So it was just like scrubs
and lab coats and stuff like that, or those are
just easier to have on hand.
Speaker 2 (17:18):
Yeah, well like lab coats. How much were they They
were like twenty bucks twenty five exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:23):
Yes, we just needed, you know, six or seven of
them just to have them different sizes and fits. How
long have you been doing wardrobe in your career. I
know you've done a lot of stuff.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Well, Jeff, that was that was my first rodeo.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
That was it really for wardrobe.
Speaker 2 (17:38):
That was my first time doing wardrobe. I mean I've
done like a lot of indie films where I do.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Yeah, you just haven't done it full time.
Speaker 2 (17:44):
But to be a dedicated wardrobe that was literally my first.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
Okay, so I'm going to pay you a compliment. Then
we're gonna have a little discussion. You certainly on me fooled.
I mean, you did a great job. No, no, I
shouldn't even say it that way. You did a great job.
And as I said at the beginning the episode, I
mean it's because you're so organized, and I think when
somebody's organized the way you are and resourceful, then you
could probably do any job you want, which is like
what you said, and so does that what you think
(18:12):
the skill sets required to be a successful wardrobe person
or but you also said you know clothes, I mean,
you know fabrics, you know looks.
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Yeah, I think I mean that definitely helps. And just
because I have my family and I have a clothing company,
that definitely helps. But I think it really just comes
down to being resourceful. You just got a hustle, and
I mean, I truly believe in a project, and I
truly believe in making an impact, and I just I
(18:41):
just want to do good and everything I do, I
really do.
Speaker 1 (18:44):
Yeah, because you're conscientious. But I remember when Kelly said
that she's going to hire you. Kelly's our production court manager,
and she was the one who was looking for wardrobe
and make up on all these people. So and I
don't even think I asked her whether you had done
wardrobe before. I try us her so much that I
just assumed that she interviewed you. And and the truth
(19:04):
is you were a good choice. I would use you
on every one of my movies because of just thank you, Jeff.
I don't know if you want to do ardrobe in
every movie, because we're going to talk about the other
things you do in a second. But for you know,
for our listeners to be successful in that area, I
think i'm hearing you got to be resourceful and organized,
and you've got to know style a little bit, right, Yeah,
(19:24):
I think you understand. I have to understand the story.
And you know, our movies were pretty straightforward because they
were both contemporary. You know, the wardrobe was today. If
they're period pieces or special effects or other things you know,
that require a little bit more involved than it's I
think it's a little more I'm going to say, challenging
and intricate.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah. I think the one thing that I really wanted
with this film, as I wanted to have a really
good relationship with the actors, I just want them to
trust me and I want them to feel like they
look great. And I think ones I earn that trust,
they would just go out of your way to really
(20:06):
just be resourceful if you can't procure like a certain item.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
So there's something else that you take for granted that
I don't. And I maybe you haven't heard this before,
but I think it's very important for the wardrobe people
and the hair and makeup people to be friendly and
kind of chill because you guys are getting the actors
ready to come on set, and they need to be relaxed,
no anxiety. Especially the hair and makeup people have a
(20:33):
lot of time with them in that chair chit chat.
Sometimes I say, you're taking too much time, right, but no,
because remember they're dressing in front of you, and they
got to feel comfortable with you, and you got to
be friendly with them. So and you have that personality
type which is great. Were there any times on set
where it was just something crazy happened or really difficult situation,
(20:58):
or any times when you know, as opposed to when
it goes well, were there any moments when it was just,
holy smokes, we're in trouble here.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
Well, sorry, Jeff, I'm gonna have to pick on you.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Is that? Okay? I was supposed to bring something that
I didn't bring.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Right, It wasn't quite hairy, But I remember it was
actually the second day of the shoot. And I'll tell
you this, when I did my spreadsheet, Margaret has sixty unique,
sixty outfits, just according to a spreadsheet, Okay, And I
think they actually prefaced me by saying, don't panic, We're
(21:33):
going to shoot a montage and we need seven outfits
like now and I'm like, okay.
Speaker 1 (21:41):
Imber, I remember that, Dana, I remember. I remember.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
I was like Cardigans. It's kind of like how I like,
fix it Cardigans, change your hair and like silly, take
off your jacket, let's borrow that. So, I mean, I
think that was one of the craziest moments. And I
think also when you have a client and they have
(22:07):
like a specific look that they're looking for and they're
on the set and if it's not quite aligned to what.
Speaker 1 (22:14):
Their vision is.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
I took that one hard because I was like, oh, oh,
I wish I had more time. I wish I had
you know, I wish I had gotten this piece. But
sometimes in a grand scheme of the movie, like those
things that you worry so much about you'd think are
such a big deal, is such a micro second within
the film that it kind of balances itself out.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Okay, but you are I mean you have a very
even keeled personality. You're organized, and you're a doer, so
you're able to deal with challenges. You know, clearly, I
could see that on set. Okay, so I know that
you know, you weren't working on a big budget on
the shoot, but on average. Let's say I'm going to
just set the parameter. You know, everything's different, obviously, it
(22:59):
depends on the script, the setting, the scenes, every of
the characters, all that kind of stuff. Yeah, but let's say,
on say, on an average on a half a million
dollar budget film, what do you think the wardrobe budget?
What would be reasonable? Do you think would make sense?
And what would you normally be working with.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
For half a million dollar budget.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
It's funny, it's I think that's more of a line
producer question than it is a a wardrobe pise. Basically,
the producer going to say, here's what you got to
work with, and then you got to say I can
do it or I can't do it. Yeah, I'm going
to give an answer, though, I'm going to say, I'm
going to say twenty thousand. Twenty thousand, Yeah, that would
be the number that I would allocate. Now, you did
(23:37):
it for way less than that because of how conscientious
and you are in terms of, like you say, thrifting
and doing that. But also the films that we worked
on together really didn't require There weren't really any tremendous
special needs there.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
Yeah, I mean, you're absolutely right, it didn't really require.
Speaker 1 (23:53):
Anything unusual unusual, but I would say twenty would be
twenty to twenty five. Yeah, that's what I say.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
Is that like a certain percentage of like the budget.
Speaker 1 (24:02):
Or I don't really do it as a percentage. I
kind of do it as a sort of a number
based on the style of film. So if it was
a period piece, I wouldn't even attempt to do it
that number. But a period piece would at least be
two and a half to three times that fifty to
sixty thousand, because you got to get it right, and
then you're eating up a good chunk of your budget
(24:24):
just with wardrobe and other things like you know, props,
cars and locations and stuff like that. So super super
expensive to shoot a period piece properly. You need more
money to do it properly. But it's all relative, right,
because you know, some people can make these epic, gigantic
films for half a million, Like a half a million.
People woulday, I'll make five films for you, right if
you're used to micro budget films, And then people who
(24:46):
work on big budget films would say, I mean that's
our catering budget, you know, that's like that is our wardrobe.
But five hundred thousands our wardrobe budget. You know that
the shooting budget is ten million, right, So it's a
it is all relative. Now let's just switch gears for
a second. So you've worn many hats, more so than
I knew about in indie filmmaking and just in general
(25:09):
the indie film business. I mean, what do you think
about it? I mean, I know you love filmmaking, but
it's challenging business. I mean, what's your perspective.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
I mean it is, it's truly challenging. But there's nothing
else I'd rather be doing. I mean, I make very
little money to sometimes you know, nothing, so I have
to just really have my hands on a lot of
things just to kind of even it out. There's some
(25:37):
gigs that I do that are like my bread and butter.
Being on a set is what I love, but there's
not a lot of production here in San Diego. And
also the challenge for me is because I have three boys,
I want to be home and I want to be around.
I don't have the flexibility of a single person who
could just like run off to New Mexico or Atlanta
(25:59):
or Montreal. So I mean I do what I can locally.
Speaker 1 (26:04):
What if one of your children said to Hi, mom,
I see what you're doing. Looks great. I want to
be a filmmaker. What's your advice.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Well, actually, my son right now, who attended call Poly
with a degree in Information systems, is in film. He
is doing a lot of social media, video and marketing.
And I tell him, you're twenty three years old, you
have this huge potential. I mean, I didn't get into
a film until I was early forties, so this is
(26:34):
a second early forties.
Speaker 1 (26:35):
You told me you were thirty nine.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Thanks, Jeff, I didn't. I mean, film is a second
career for me. But I truly deeply encourage my kids
to be creative. I think there's so many avenues, so
many ways to be creative nowadays. And we always collaborate too.
(26:59):
That's one thing that I love doing with them, was
the collaboration. They definitely have a certain style that I
truly admire, and I mimic and I love being around
I love being around young people. I just love their creativity.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
You know, I think it's important for young people to
have a nice balance between pursuing their creative dreams and
perhaps having more realistic path that might they might have
to take if the dreams don't actually come to be,
which is not often the case, but it's important to
pursue them.
Speaker 2 (27:28):
You can be a professor exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
Okay, So Marybeth, tell me what else you do. What's
your favorite thing in the film business to do. I mean,
I got to say you're very good at wardrobe, and
as I told you, I would definitely use your gain.
But maybe there's other things that I didn't know about,
like where's your strengths and your interests.
Speaker 2 (27:47):
I feel like my strength is kind of coordination and planning.
Laurie and I are actually producing a film along with
two other friends, and we're we're going to start filming
next Tuesday for two weeks. So I like kind of
like the coordination part of filmmaking. I'm not necessarily like
(28:10):
the camera or the editor, but I love like the
coordination aspect of things, working with budget, casting, figuring out location.
So from that producing sense, that's what I like. I
like working with people.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
And this film that you're doing with LORI are you
the line producer? What's your role?
Speaker 2 (28:28):
I am Actually I'm the second AD. I'm also the
locations manager and I'm probably going to be the second
AC too. On the set and props master.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
So you do wear a lot of different hats.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
So it's going to be a lot a lot of hats.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Well, I got to say that that that's kind of
what you just defined is sort of indie filmmaking. I
mean generally a lot of people have to wear a
lot of different hats and be able to go and
take a pick up a role that somebody else has
isn't doing, or that you don't afford to hire somebody for.
So I find that in you know, depending on whether
it's low budget or micro budget, and depending on how
(29:11):
aggressive the shoot is, that people do wear lots of
different hats and you need to.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
You need to, like for this film that we're doing,
I mean, we have two gaffers, and one gaffer is
going to double as our boom operator. I mean one
light is set up, he's gonna be our boom operator.
And that's that's what you just have to do.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Yeah, I think it's actually efficient and effective to do
that as long as people are okay with it, and
you know, people who are working a lot in indie
low budgeting films understand that that's what goes on and
needs to go on.
Speaker 2 (29:43):
And also in indie film, everybody wants to learn a
lot of skills. I think it just makes you more
more marketable.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
What's your final ultimate goal? Do you want to be
a director? Do you want to be a producer.
Speaker 2 (29:55):
I want to be a director.
Speaker 1 (29:56):
Oh, you want to direct?
Speaker 2 (29:56):
I'm actually I mean I've been writing too, written like
three stream plays myself, but I want to direct.
Speaker 1 (30:07):
Have you tried your hand at financing yet?
Speaker 2 (30:09):
Not yet? When I get there, I know who to call.
I know who to call, I know who to contact.
Thank you for.
Speaker 1 (30:18):
That's that's sort of the gate keeper right there, the finance.
But I know that you're conscientious and you will figure
out a way around all of that.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
We'll figure it out once it's time.
Speaker 1 (30:29):
Yeah, okay, Well, I mean, once again, I got to
tell you had me fooled. You did a great job.
You were super organized, and I think you could teach
a lot of people how to do wardrobe properly because
we had no continuity issues we had. We had lots
of wardrobe changes and lots of set changes and stuff,
and everything went smoothly. And I attribute that to the
(30:49):
people who are managing it, like you and all the
others on the team. So well done, and I appreciate
you taking the time to come on the show. Any
final words that you want to share with the indie
making audience.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
I think he is a composure under pressure.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
I agree, that's just.
Speaker 2 (31:06):
That's that's just how you have to roll.
Speaker 1 (31:09):
When the heat gets turns up, you don't blow the gasket.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Yeah, and Jeff, I thank you. You're an amazing director.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Yeah, well, thank you. Appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
It was truly a pleasure working with you.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
Okay, Well, thanks again for coming on and I look
forward to the next time we work together. I agree
with Mary Beth that probably the most important component of
being a good wardrobe person is the same as it
is for most positions, which is just being super conscientious,
resourceful and really taking the job seriously and giving it
your best. And then of course having some talent and
(31:44):
a good eye helps a lot. But being a very productive, resourceful,
organized person is a game changer. All right, Well, that's
it for this week. I hope you learned a lot
about wardrobe and how their tips about indie filmmaking. As always,
if you have more questions or want more detail else,
feel free to email me directly. J Deverett J D.
(32:04):
E V E R e T T at Deverorrettmedia dot com.
I look forward to hearing from you. H
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