May 21, 2025 • 51 mins
Baltej Dhillon is a retired career police officer, a community leader, and a lifelong advocate for diversity and inclusion. Emigrating from Malaysia in 1983, Mr. Dhillon made history in 1991 as the first Royal Canadian Mounted Police (RCMP) officer to wear a turban, advocating for the right to practice his faith while serving Canada. Mr. Dhillon went on to have a successful 30‑year career with the RCMP as an accomplished major crime investigator, police interrogator, polygraph examiner, intelligence officer, and emergency planner. He played a key role in several high-profile investigations, including the Air India Flight 182 tragedy and the Robert Pickton case. Mr. Dhillon also held various leadership roles, including overseeing the British Columbia RCMP Divisional Emergency Operations Centre and the federal Serious and Organized Crime’s Intelligence section, also in British Columbia, as well as establishing and managing intelligence operations at the Provincial Intelligence Centre of British Columbia (now the Real-Time Operations Centre of British Columbia), the first of its kind in Canada. In 2013, Mr. Dhillon led the Sikh Leadership and Police Committee on Gang Violence to support youth prevention strategies within the Sikh Community. Since retiring from the RCMP in 2019, he has worked as Program Manager for the Crime Guns Intelligence and Investigations Group with the Combined Forces Special Enforcement Unit of British Columbia, the province’s anti-gang agency. Mr. Dhillon is also deeply involved in community service. He serves on various committees and has led youth camps. He has received numerous distinctions and awards, including the Lifetime Achievement Award from The Times of Canada, the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal, the Queen Elizabeth II Golden Jubilee Medal, and the RBC Top 25 Canadian Immigrant Award. In addition to his extensive police education and training, Mr. Dhillon is the recipient of honorary Doctor of Laws degrees from McMaster University and Kwantlen Polytechnic University.
https://sencanada.ca/en/senators/dhillon-baltej-s/
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https://sencanada.ca/en/senators/dhillon-baltej-s/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Thank you for listening to the picture of the radiant rat.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
You readything to me? Oh well, well say, oh well,
(00:57):
not bad.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I just see you.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Solimash.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
So it says, welcome back everybody. Today we're going to
(01:40):
speak with Baldade Sing Dylan. He is a retired career
police officer. Well retired as it is an interesting word
because of what uh baldeg has has achieved and that
he is currently sitting as a senator in Canada, so
(02:06):
retired looks very different for him. But let's continue. He
retired from being a police officer and he's still a
community leader and a lifelong advocate for diversity and inclusion.
Immigrating from Malaysia in nineteen eighty three, mister Dylan made
(02:28):
history in nineteen eighty one as the first Royal Canadian
Mounted Police Officer or RCMP officer to wear a turban,
advocating for the right to practice his faith while serving Canada.
Mister Dylan went on to have a successful thirty year career.
(02:54):
During the interview, mister Dylan may actually correct that figure
of the thirty year career with the RCMP with an
accomplishment in major crimes. He was a police investigator a
polygraphic examiner, intelligence officer, and an emergency planner. He played
(03:16):
a role in several high profile investigations, which also include
the Air India flight and the Robert Picton case. Mister
Dillon also held various leadership roles, including overseeing the British
(03:36):
Columbia Arts and p Divisional Emergency Operations Center and the
Federal Series Organized Crime Intelligence Section also in British Columbia.
(03:57):
During our conversation, you're going to hear the mister is
an advocate for mental health and mental health also includes
addictions in his view and also leads to some of
the work that he actually did with organized crimes because
he was trying to stop drug traffic and the drugs
(04:22):
having an effect a very negative effect on our community
as well as people's mental health with addictions. In twenty thirteen,
mister Dylan led his Zeke Leadership and Police Community on
(04:44):
Gang Violence to support youth prevention strategies within the z community.
Since retiring from the RCMP in twenty nineteen, he has
worked as Program Manager for Crime and Guns Intelligence and
Investigation Group with Combined Forces, an enforcement unit of British Columbia,
(05:12):
to the province's Anti Gang Agencies. Mister Dillan has won
several awards, including a Lifetime Award from the Times of
Canada and the and the Queen Elizabeth to Diamond Jubilee Medal,
(05:40):
the Queen Elizabeth two Golden Jubilee Medal, and the RBC
Top twenty five Canadian Immigrant Awards. Mister Dylon just believes
in standing up for our community and standing up for
(06:10):
those people who need to be spoken for because our
society itself may be diminishing their voices. So why don't
we welcome Baldage to the show and listen to his
part of his life story as he tells us what
(06:32):
it is that he really wants to achieve and and
talks about the work that he has has done and
is has ongoing. H Well, it's it's an honor to
(07:21):
have you on the show. And you're when I consider
one of to be one of the great human beings
because you kept standing up for diversity, you kept standing
up for equality, and you continue to stand up for
inclusion in all the work that you do just for
(07:43):
the sake of what your daily routine looks like now
because you're no longer an Art and p officer and
you you have a you're serving the community in a
very different way. What does it actually mean to be
a senator in Canada?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Or A thank you Michael. First of all, thank you
for having me on your show. You know, it's such
a pleasure of privilege. And we met a little while ago,
and you know, I was very very much you know,
grateful for this opportunity to be able to share a
few words. Yes, so my world has changed a little bit.
I got appointed on February seventh, and that's the recommendation
(08:23):
of the Prime Minister to the Governor General, who is
the person that ultimately is the one that.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
Appoints the citizens Canadians to the Senate.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
So as a senator, I have yet to take part
in any parliamentary sessions because we have When I was appointed,
the Senate was provode, Parliament was provote, and since then
we've gone through an election, and while we were going
through election, the Senate in Parliament was dissolved. And so
we are going back into the forty fifth Parliament on
(08:56):
the twenty sixth of May, which is coming up in
about a week's time, and that is when we will
restart all of the work. In the meantime, During this time,
I have been attending various events.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Meeting with people.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Folks have reached out to me around a variety of issues,
whether it's on issues around equity that we just spoke about,
whether it's on issues of you know, personal harm that
they're experiencing or things that have systems that are not working,
or where they believe that they have been you know, wronged.
So I've certainly getting that type of those types of
(09:36):
emails and requests, and I've spoken to a lot of
people since then, and I'm trying to support and assist
them in some of the issues that they're experiencing. I've
also traveled across the country in different places, or was
in Montreal and Toronto, in Calgary.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
And attending different events and lending my.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Voice to various work that is being conducted around the country,
where it's law enforcement and you know, advancing various strategies
in confronting the challenge of organized crime and the opiate
crisis that we're that we're moving through and the toxic
dart supply, or whether it's around just supporting organizations that
(10:19):
are doing some fantastic work and building uh, you know,
the next generation, supporting youth providing support for community that
is struggling with mental health and addictions, that type of
that type of advocacy work has been certainly part of
the part of the duties, if you are, responsibilities that
(10:41):
have taken on here since uh since being appointed as
a senator in the Senate.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Yeah, well, on a mental health issue, what kind of
changes do you think we should see, especially after the
Lapou Lapoo incident where a person who was diagnosed with
mental health uh was out on a day pass from
(11:07):
wherever he was hospitalized, and this massive thing happens is
they are are we looking into how we can re
assess people or or make some major changes to to
mental health in diagnosis. That so that it's shameful what
(11:27):
happened to the people. It's also shameful that he was
allowed out. They could have been prevented, right, incredible tragedy.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
I mean, you know, I certainly my heart goes up
to the family members, the victims, the people of the community.
And I certainly was one of those people, and I
know many of us did picked up our phone the
next morning when we heard about the event and reached
out to all of our Filipino friends and just to
make sure that they were safe and uh and talk
(11:59):
to them and offer our both our support and connolences
and so the.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
And it would be it would be.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Inappropriate for me to comment on that case specifically, just
because their process is underweight. Now there's an investigation, there's
an inquiry, there's all kinds of work that's being done,
and I certainly don't want to derail it or misleaded
in any way, you know, and allow that process to
take take its a due course. What I think, generally speaking,
(12:31):
when it comes to mental health, there's a lot that
we still don't know in my view, and there's a
lot that we still are learning and our I mean
because if we did, you know, we would not allow
for tragedies like these to happen. If we did know
everything that we need to know about how mental health
(12:51):
impacts people and challenges folks, and you know, we had
an understanding of that, we wouldn't have these types of events.
So I think there's a lot there there's still being
an uncertain expert in the mental health field, and you know,
I wouldn't be able to comment too much on it.
But what I what I do know and what I
(13:12):
do understand is that this is an area that we
do need to turn our attention towards. There are many
that suffer that many that suffer from it, There are
many that struggle with it. And you know, firstly removing
the stigma round mental health and making sure that they're
safe spaces and low barrier you know, approaches that we
(13:34):
can provide for folks that are moving through a difficult
time in their lives, whether it's through long term trauma,
whether it's uh, you know, generational, or whether it's something
that has come about because of you know, addiction or
some other some other harm uh some other incidents. So
with that, I think there are many organizations that are
(13:56):
you know, already in place and we could use more UH.
And I know all the provincial government is certainly turning
their mind and their energy towards uh, you know, providing
that support UH. And I think we all know that
there are times where folks will not have you know,
all of their facility to be able to make good decisions.
(14:19):
And when that takes place and there are triggers or
signals or you know, flags that come forward, I think
we at that point as a community, as a society,
we owe it both to that individual into the into
society at large, to put in place measures that protects
(14:40):
both the individual and society uh as they move through
that time, and provide them with the support, provide them
with whatever it is that they need to move through
that period. Uh and to be able to come out
of it on.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
The other side better health here, being able.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
To back into society and contributed a way that we
all expect of each other and you know, honor the
contract that we have with each other of being good citizens.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah, yeah, well you answered answered the question. Exactly what
I was looking for was. It wasn't like that specific event.
It's like, how do we not have another one happen?
You know? And that's and that's the contract between all
of us as citizens, the citizens of our world. It
(15:31):
is not to do harm to each other. So so yeah,
and you're you're, you're, you are no stranger to people
doing harm with each other. Because with thirty years as
a police officer.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Yes, thirty five years, sorry.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
That's all right, three nine twenty nine years in the RCMP,
and then I spent another five and a half six
years the Organized Crime Agency also the law enforcement as
a police officer focused on organized crime and games.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, yeah, so I imagine that you did. You've seen
more than one of of of what of these types
of events happened? So you told a story when we
were in the Surrey Library when I first actually got
to meet you face to face instead of through uh,
(16:31):
through a film about your early experiences as an ARC
and P officer and someone who I would say was
trying to be prejudiced towards you, but it backfired on
it because you kept appearing doing your job. So maybe
(16:54):
fill in the blanks on that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Yeah, yeah, I think you know, And that's not just
one story. There are many instances like that, and I
think you know, we certainly my journey in the r
c MP was a little unique and to the journey
of many others, being the first to churven r c
n B also the first one to be allowed to
(17:19):
wear turven in the r c MP.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
You know, after a very long drawn out, you know,
sort of debate.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Within within within Canada, within within the within the public, you.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Know, over over a year and a half nineteen eighty
nine to about nineteen ninety.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Where you know, the question around symbols and religious religious articles,
traditional articles that we hold a deer and are important
to who we are as individuals, and it's part of
our identity and how we present ourselves daily. Uh, it
(18:01):
was being questioned, and you know, I certainly was challenged
by the RCMP to abandon my articles of faith and
shave my beard, remove my turban, and to comply with
the existing uniform at the time, which really was in
contraard was it was in contravention of the Charter of Rights, uh,
(18:25):
and the rights that we all hold as citizens of
this country. So I wasn't prepared to, uh, you know,
compromise who I was, my identity. And you know, I've
often said that if I was prepared to compromise something
so important to myself that I would give up my
(18:47):
identity and my faith, my way of life, then I
don't know what the RCMB. How could the RCM be
replace trust in me? How would they ever have confidence
in me to carry out the work on a daily basis?
If I could sell myself in a simple way, and
I guess I'd put it that way, why wouldn't I
then sell myself just to the next highest bidder that
(19:08):
came along and said, well, we'll give you this much,
and uh, you know, would be the r CNP. So
I think principles and values are important, and these were
my principles and these were my values that I was
not prepared to abandon and so but they you know,
classed with the r c MP's UH policy uniform policy
and UH. And there was a there was a period
(19:29):
of time where we needed to reflect and what is
it that we are hoping to accountlish share in Canada.
What is it that you know, multicultural multicultural resum really
means it was part of the constitution. What does it
mean to be a Canadian citizen with rights under the
Trumpet rights? All those questions were you know, and foreign
and center. So you know, there were many that felt
(19:50):
that I should comply and conform with the r CNP
uniform but that wasn't the law.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
The policy. The uniform policy is simply that policy.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
The law and the rights are what supersede all things,
even the laws of this country. The rights of citizens
supersede uh. You know, laws cannot be a laws cannot uh,
you know, supersede the rights of an individual. And so
the first thing that the RCMV officer does is make
sure that the rights of an individual are protected and
(20:23):
we have to have reasonable violence to arrest someone. We
must have you know, evidence to allow us to take
away the very uh, you know, an important right that
we all hold dear, which is our right to freedom.
And so when it comes to our rights, uh, they
are you know, they are supreme, they are the absolute
(20:47):
you know direction that that is the absolute instruction of
this country, that this is how we will behave So
when the policy of the r c MP came face
to face with the Charter of Rights, it did not
it could not withstand and that test, and that is
why the change was made. It's not because of me
or anything like that, but it was this is the
(21:07):
rule of law of this land. This is who we
are as Canadians, this is what Canada is about, and
this is what we fought for. This is these are
the rights that we fought for. These are the rights
that we hold dear and so and they should be
applied across the board to all Canadians. And it was
important that at that time, you know, that was announced
(21:30):
and so certainly by allowing me to uh, you know,
keep my articles of faith and serve was just the
technical process that we went through in making sure that
the Charter rights were uphold and my rights were UPHELDLD.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
What comes after that.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Is a human factor that you know, as I've said
many times before, you can legislate diversity, you can legislate
a change of the uniform, but including people in the
organization requires other people to be ready to include you.
So the first few years in the r CNP, of course,
you know, came with a lot of challenges, a lot
(22:14):
of you know, folks that were not ready for that change.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
I mean, look it, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
I had a lot of allies, so I had a
lot of friends, a lot of people that stood by me.
But similarly, there were also people that were not ready
to accept this change, and so they took it out
of me because I was the only person there at
the time, and that included you know, uh, not willing
to back me up when I was out on patrol,
(22:40):
not including me in different work when you know, when
I was clarity a member of the organization, and that
a member of that unit, uh, excluding me front files
and investigations where you know, they thought that I wouldn't
be able to contribute all of this driven by a bias,
a prejudice, you know, and and oftentimes racism. Uh so,
(23:05):
and I share with folks that, you know, one of
my my first complaint, my first probably complaint, uh you know,
came on the day that I graduated, because someone at
least saw me graduating. And you know, on the day
that we graduated, it's a pretty big deal. Six months
of hard work and you get your badge and you graduate.
(23:28):
Uh and so on that day, you know, you're with
your family. Your troopmates become your family. So on the
day of graduation, it's very emotional, you know, and through
that we congratulate each other, we hug each other. So
my first complaint was from a citizen out east who
thought that it was undecoming a police officer to hug
another police officer, and so they made the complaint and
(23:51):
a police officer, you know, an RCMPI officer, accepted the complaint,
which is I think the video travesty instead of saying
this is well, what are you talking about?
Speaker 4 (24:02):
This is not you know, this is not wrong.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
And then also accepting the complain against me but not
against all of my troop mates because the complaint suggested
that it was a it was a police officer with
the turbent that was you know, offending them and that
that was offensive.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
And so that complaint went from the you know, I
believe it.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Was out in Ontario someplace, and then from Ontario went
you know, Ottawa, the headquarters. From Ottawa, I came to Vancouver.
From Vancouver, it came to Prince George. And so there
were that many people who looked at that complainant still
allowed it to go ahead, uh to the you know,
uh to the commanding officer or at that time, the
(24:47):
district officer in in Prince George Randie, who looked at it,
and he phoned me and he said, Voltage Constable Dylon,
I'm calling you because there's a complaint against you.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
But I also once you know, you're not going to
see it. I said, okay.
Speaker 5 (25:03):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
He said, I am absolutely uh, you know, just floored
uh and disgusted by the fact that we actually accepted
this complaint. And I am going to send my remarks
back through the change so that everybody understands how how
I feel.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Exactly that this was not just a travesty that.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
People continue to propagate and continue to you know, fuel
this frivolous and vexations complaint.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
So that was my first complaint.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Michael, and I think that's that's the stage for many
other things that came along after that.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Wow, I'm thinking myself, A hug is like, oh, but
you're a human being. First human beings hug and for
that matter, it's like there aren't there are other beings
on this planet that also hug. It's like, so what
(26:01):
is wrong? Well that I did want to ask you
this because to hear from a devout zek person what
the turbine and the beard actually mean to you as
as a religious symbol, as as as a person of faith.
(26:22):
And I think it's important that people actually here here
you you state what your faith means to you, because
there are a lot of listeners who are faith driven.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
So of course, look, this is uh, this is my
way of life.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
I've not I've not never cut my hair, you know,
since since coming into this world, since.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
I was born.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Uh so my faith uh And so initially, you know,
my commitment to my way of life or my beard,
my turbine, my hair and sworn here was more because
of my commitment to my father. And my father was
a practicing Sikh. He was a devout sick and he
he passed on that identity and those principles and those
(27:07):
values to me. So I learned from him and I
he was my first robi, he was my mentor. I
absolutely held him in you know, such high regard. I uh,
you know, I respected all that he did, uh, you know.
And and so when and before his passing and before
(27:28):
we came to Canada, one of the last few things
that he had shared with me was that don't lose
your identity, stay true to who you are and so
and in growing up, I also got to learn about
my faith, and you know, became a very well versed
in our traditions and our culture and our history and
(27:49):
and so in the Sekh faith, our hair, you know those.
And again, this is not about judgment, This is not
about imposing, This is not.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
About anything but those who choose uh.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
To follow the Seek faith. And everyone is on their
own journey uh and follow the tenets of the Seek faith.
And one of the tenants is that you will keep
unshorn here Uh. So I have long hair. Both my
beer is tied up right now. It's not shaved or
anything like that, but it's just in a knot and
tied up underneath punch.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
And Uh, if you go on line and uh you know, and.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
You type in my name your wile, so on Google
you'll also see versions of me where where my beer
I'm nodded and longed into my down to my work
and so the and this is just to that professional
walk to be able to work in different spaces and
there's no restriction against that.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
The turban holds my hair, The turban protects my hair.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
And the turbun is considered within the seek faith our
crown and uh you know, uh a formal way and
appropriate way to manage our hair. But also the turbrene
was a gift from our teachers and especially our tenth Master,
Good Gobn Singh who you know, directed us to wear
(29:12):
turbrens to protect our hair.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
So the durven becomes an article of faith.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Through that process and through that direction instructions from our teacher,
from our Guru, from our profit. And that is why
the turbine holds such important uh you know reference within
for seeks within to seek faith. It's also tied to
our you know, identity and who we are, uh and
(29:38):
in our commitment to the way of life and the
Sacre way of life. And it's also a signal to
others that we stand for certain values and principles, that
we are guided by UH certain disciplines, and that we
can be counted on to serve in that way. So
and there are many many organizations around the world that
(30:01):
are you know, supported by, sponsored by and run by
UH six and sick organizations that meet the principles and
the discipline I mean cast one that comes to mind,
you know, UH here in Vancouver there's a good non
free kitchen and all of these organizations such as Another
(30:24):
One Foundation, all these organizations, their purpose is to give back,
Their purpose is to serve in service is a very
important you know anchor for six selfless service especially, and
it underpins all the things that we engage in. Now Again,
(30:45):
as I shared before, and I want to make sure
that I preface this and a cabot this that you know,
everyone is on their own journey. So you may not
see somebody that wears deterurbined or has long beer and
long hair, but considers themselves are sick.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
They are. They are sick.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
They're on their own journey to move to whatever stage
they want to move to. And so when I've been
to ask before, love, why can't you do that why
can't you, you know, be that, Well, I'll be regressing
if I did that, I'll be going backwards. And so,
you know, we want to be moving forward. We want
to be learning, We want to be you know, getting
(31:21):
closer to the principles and the discipline and the values
of our faith and our way of life and and
but there's no time going on it anyone and everybody
can be on their own journey and that's up to do.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Yeah, I totally agree. I like what you you answered
the question about why you couldn't be the person who
cut your hair so busy early earlier on when you
said you were also honoring the traditions they were passed
down through your father, and that you were honoring your
(31:56):
father by by remembering who you are. I thought that
was very valuable.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
You know, absolutely, you know who I am and who
I am today is UH has a lot to do
with the principle's values, discipline, guidance, you know, trust that's
been that was placed in me by my father and
and I carry that forward. UH, and I hope to
(32:23):
give some of that to my children.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Well from one from one I I know out of
the Zeke faith, it's a very peaceful service driven you know, humility, uh,
and being humble or part of that. It's not uh,
let's try to show I'm I'm greater than is no,
(32:49):
I am here equal to and willing to help. So
sort of sort of a faith which which is amazing.
You know we need more of that in our world, right.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
But you know, yeah, absolutely, Michael, I would say that,
you know, other than to see faith, All faiths, from
what I've seen and you know I have in my view,
are driven by from a place of doing good. H
you know, if we can, if you if we can
literally you know, bring it down to distill it to
(33:24):
you know, a very simple sort of sentence. It's about
doing good. And so in this sea, faith is no different.
I think the intention is to do good. Now, you know,
we as human beings can conoct even religion, even faith,
and by you know, allowing our own sort of biases,
(33:46):
our own prejudice, our own sort of thinking, in our
own uh you know, blind spots, and in our own
sort of thinking, get.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
In the way of.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
What the faith would have us do, what the health
would have us to, what the teachings would have us
to do. So I think it's uh it's about continually
reflecting back uh and resetting our own thinking against in
with the teachings of our life, our faith or and
(34:18):
these principles.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
And so that's what guides me.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
So if I am, you know, fearless in standing with
people being an ally, it's because I know that my
faith stands with me when I am standing with them.
So I don't have any worry. I don't know not
I'm not you know, in contradiction of anything. It is
who we are and what we are and what I
(34:43):
am and what my principles or values are. So it's
not in contradiction of anything. Rather it is alignment with
how we actually are supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Yeah, I say this, uh because I used to I
used to be on a rescue team and it was
steep terray, which meant I had to jump off of
cliffs in order to go save people because they fell
off that cliff or were trapped somehow. And it was
(35:17):
a trust that you had with your with your teammates. Right,
and you tell saying all those things that you did
about your faith being so important to you, your identity
being so important to you, and that you're not willing
to compromise those things. That tells me that if you're
standing on the other end of that ballet line and
I'm jumping off that cliff to go save somebody, You're
(35:40):
gonna hold tight.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
And I can't see how anyone could see that differently,
you know.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Yeah, Well, I'm with you. I I that's a great example.
That's a that's a great way to put it. You know,
I think folks were principles, were values, folks that you know,
in my view most of the time that you can
depend on because they will what will guide them or
their values and principle and they will not be swayed
by the moment or at the time or where the
(36:12):
winds that are you know, popular during that during.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
That period or whatever the pressure is.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
So uh in those instances, I think, you know, and
I've shared this with the young people and I go
and speak with kids and students and schools, is that
you know, your values are your anchors, and the storms
of life will come, uh, and if your anchors are
not in place during that storm, then you are going
(36:40):
to be uh, you know, beaten to the rocks.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
And you know you'll be in shambles trying to figure
out which way to go. So have those in place,
align with them, be clear, draw your you know, uh,
be very confident about those values. And then when the
storms come, you're ready. You're not going to be swayed,
You're not going to be taken advantage of. You will
be able to move through that strength and courage and
(37:05):
be ready for the next one.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
So those anchors in and of course your courage, they've
been the secret sauce to your success.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Well, yes, I would say one thousand percent. Uh, you know,
and I and I and I guess I would put
it this way, And this is the other thing and
share with students is that.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
First understand what your passions are.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
What is it that you're living for, What exactly is
it that you are looking to do? What you're what
are you looking to accomplish. When I first came into
the RCMP, you know, it was out of service. When
I when I started to make a decision in my
life of what career to pursue. Initially I wanted to
become a lawyer.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
And then they started volunteering. The RCMP saw what the
community needed. There was a lack of representation.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
There was a lot of folks within the community that
couldn't speak the language. I was providing the service. I
was buying support to them. There was a need and
so that became the objective. That became the desire to
serve a community that was being underrepresented or underserved. And
that's why I joined, not the RCMP, but I looked
to join a police force because my intention was to
(38:16):
become a police officer, not an RCNB officer. And I
applied to every police department in the Wormingland, and so
it just happened that there was this thing depriven thing
that happened, and there was this huge controversy that took place,
and the RCMP was the first, after all of that
was sorted to hire me. Once I came into the RCMP,
(38:38):
it you know, completed that work. I fulfilled that role
and I was able to serve. I was able to
be there and you know and support the community and
with my languages and my cultural background traditions, and they
saw themselves being represented in an organization that oftentimes it
(38:58):
was difficult to trust because there was no connection, there
was no relationship, there was no you couldn't see yourself
in that in that organization, and that's you know that
that's a large part of creating trust and creating confidence
in that organization. So that knew, UH that the organization
can be supported by the community as well. And so
(39:19):
that went on and soon after, you know, many years
after working within the rcn V, I then started to
see the issue around youth UH and UH and youth
criminality and gangs and organized crime and how you know,
South Asian young men were overrepresented within gangs and also
especially in the in the killings, and we've lost hundreds
(39:44):
of young men because of gang vitonce and and and
organized crime. So I started to turn my mind towards that,
and that became my passion. That became the thing that
I wanted to try to support, help and possibly resolve
and you know, find solutions towards.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
So I started doing that work. And with that work,
you know, I was able to create a variety of.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
Initiatives consent in place, and through that, you know, I
then went into the Organized crime Agency. So the success
you speak of, Michael is not what I chased. What
I chased was the service. The chase was around the passion.
The chase was around how can I support this, How
(40:32):
can I try to fix this? How can I lend
my voice to this, How can I contribute to it
so that it's it's less of an issue it there's
opportunities here, ways to resolve it.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
The success fodels, the success follows.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
And when you start to do that, then the places
where you can have your voice heard are places where
you then choose.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
To move towards. So I did not within the RCNP.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
I sought out spaces and also promotions that would help
me contribute towards the work that I had a passion around.
It wasn't just because I wanted to get promoted, but
I wanted to.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
Advance some of the work and from there.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
That is why exactly why I lend my name to
the provincial campaign and election last year, was.
Speaker 4 (41:26):
Because I wanted to join.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
I had done as much as I could in the RCNP,
in the Organized Crime Agency, and I felt that the
only other way that I could advance some of the
work that I wanted to do was to you know,
being in public service as a politician and as ann LA.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
That didn't turn out the way we wanted it to,
but that's okay. That's the part of the journey.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
And here I am now with this role as a
Senate as a senator in the Senate, and I'm still
pursuing that work, and I'm still working on advancing in
his and strategies and looking to meet with people and
talk about how we can bring about different approaches to
address the issue of organized crime and gangs in our
(42:10):
in our nation.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Yeah, organized crime and gangs is is a problem with
that I'm not unfamiliar with. I remember and many other
communities I've lived in with Native people trying to tell
them it's like, look, this isn't a way. That not
(42:34):
the way to do this. You don't have to keep
going through this revolving door in and out of jail
being able to say, oh I can do that kind
of time standing on my head. It's not a positive statement.
Find a way to Did you compassionately serve our community
(42:56):
and help others grow within that positivity? That's the way
to serve you know, Yes.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Yes, absolutely, And I think that's for anybody. And that's
what I say to young people is that don't you know,
don't chase the promotion, don't chase the position, chase the
work that drives you.
Speaker 4 (43:20):
What is it, What is it that you're looking to
bring change?
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Around what is it that you're looking to solve, what
is it that you're looking to contribute towards. And once
you're clear about that, then what position you need to
be in to do that work becomes clear and then
you're no longer having to be something that you're not to.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
Try to be in that role, but rather you're now.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
Speaking from a place of passion and a place of commitment,
and those positions you know, become available to you.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Yeah, so it's you. You are doing amazing work right now.
What's in the future for you?
Speaker 3 (44:00):
Well, thank you. I appreciate that. I'm very in my
role as as a senator, and I certainly hope that
you know, I will I'm able to advance some of
the some of the initiatives and some of the things
that I've been talking about for many, many years now
when it comes to organize crime and Geese as well,
and has continued to be an advocate for you know,
(44:20):
equity and diversity and create greater spaces that are inclusive
of all of us and also address systemic challenges systemic racism,
systemic discrimination in workplaces and informal spaces. So I certainly
want to continue to learn my voice to all of that.
What the future holds, well, we'll see. I certainly, you know,
(44:42):
I think I'm here for some time now, you know,
as a senator, we we're here for until the age
of seventy five, if you want to work that long.
So for now, I think my focus is to learn
everything that goes on the Senate and all of the rules,
all of the you know, the all of the workings
(45:05):
of the Senate, and then also leverage uh, this current position,
my office and this new role to advance some of
the some of the strategies that have been talking about,
some of the things that I would like to see,
uh come to fruition when it when it uh, you know,
and and address the challenges of organized crime in gainings.
(45:28):
Because as far as you operate, operrate, you know, crisis
is concerned the toxic drug supply, well it's it's a
it's directly linked to organized crime. Toxic drug supply doesn't
just show up, you know, magically. It's being brought here
or you know, being produced here by organized crime. So
if we don't deal with the wholesalers, if we don't
(45:53):
deal with the producers, we don't deal with the source
of the problem. We'll only treating the symptoms. We're only
treating the after effect, and so not that that's not important,
it is we continue, We need to continue to you know,
show up our clerks, our voters wherever we can to
(46:15):
both interfere and interrupt and reduce that toxic drug supply
and getting and prevent that toxic drug supply and getting
into our communities. At the same breath, we can also
do more, in my view, to combat directly those that
are responsible for this prison in our communities.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yeah, it is. It is truly truly poisoned in in
more than one way. It's tragic to have have such
things be in our in our society. Medications do great
things for people, but when they're misused as drugs, it's
(47:00):
a definite problem. So yeah, thank you for coming on
the show. It's been a real pleasure having you and
to finding such a like minded individual like you that
believes that service and community uh should be some of
our top priorities.
Speaker 4 (47:21):
You know, thank you, Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
Michael appreciate it real longer for me as well to
be able to share my thoughts here, and thank you
for making space and allowing my voice to be heard.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Yeah, So usually I ask people the best ways to
get a hold of you is if you live in
British Columbia and you need to get get a hold
of our senator, go directly to his website. I will
put put the website in the in the liner notes
(47:57):
for the episode. And if it's a real issue, I'm
sure that you'll hear about it. You'll hear back, because
that's the type person you are, right.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
So, yeah, absolutely lots of folks have reached out.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
There are some things that you know, we a senator
can provide assistance in and support and look at advancing
issues and try to find resolve for them.
Speaker 4 (48:28):
But there are other things that are.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
Certainly outside of our outside of our preview and not
something that we can and and I almost absolutely share
all of that. I mean, there's there's some things that
just are outside of our circle influence, ProView and our.
Speaker 4 (48:43):
And our power.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Yeah, all right again, thank you and thank you everybody
for listening, and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 5 (49:01):
Then stop back shoes.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
So I don't know.
Speaker 5 (49:19):
So I who from action?
Speaker 1 (49:23):
So ny.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
This he says a reason to.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Save me.
Speaker 5 (49:46):
Choose we can't tr curbit.
Speaker 4 (50:00):
Oh past.
Speaker 5 (50:24):
You can yes see. She goes to the strip stop stuff,
(50:48):
but now changes.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
The show has been produced by Depictions Media. Please contact
us at depictions dot media for more information.
Thank you for listening to the picture of the radiant rat.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
You readything to me? Oh well, well say, oh well,
(00:57):
not bad.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
I just see you.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Solimash.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
So it says, welcome back everybody. Today we're going to
(01:40):
speak with Baldade Sing Dylan. He is a retired career
police officer. Well retired as it is an interesting word
because of what uh baldeg has has achieved and that
he is currently sitting as a senator in Canada, so
(02:06):
retired looks very different for him. But let's continue. He
retired from being a police officer and he's still a
community leader and a lifelong advocate for diversity and inclusion.
Immigrating from Malaysia in nineteen eighty three, mister Dylan made
(02:28):
history in nineteen eighty one as the first Royal Canadian
Mounted Police Officer or RCMP officer to wear a turban,
advocating for the right to practice his faith while serving Canada.
Mister Dylan went on to have a successful thirty year career.
(02:54):
During the interview, mister Dylan may actually correct that figure
of the thirty year career with the RCMP with an
accomplishment in major crimes. He was a police investigator a
polygraphic examiner, intelligence officer, and an emergency planner. He played
(03:16):
a role in several high profile investigations, which also include
the Air India flight and the Robert Picton case. Mister
Dillon also held various leadership roles, including overseeing the British
(03:36):
Columbia Arts and p Divisional Emergency Operations Center and the
Federal Series Organized Crime Intelligence Section also in British Columbia.
(03:57):
During our conversation, you're going to hear the mister is
an advocate for mental health and mental health also includes
addictions in his view and also leads to some of
the work that he actually did with organized crimes because
he was trying to stop drug traffic and the drugs
(04:22):
having an effect a very negative effect on our community
as well as people's mental health with addictions. In twenty thirteen,
mister Dylan led his Zeke Leadership and Police Community on
(04:44):
Gang Violence to support youth prevention strategies within the z community.
Since retiring from the RCMP in twenty nineteen, he has
worked as Program Manager for Crime and Guns Intelligence and
Investigation Group with Combined Forces, an enforcement unit of British Columbia,
(05:12):
to the province's Anti Gang Agencies. Mister Dillan has won
several awards, including a Lifetime Award from the Times of
Canada and the and the Queen Elizabeth to Diamond Jubilee Medal,
(05:40):
the Queen Elizabeth two Golden Jubilee Medal, and the RBC
Top twenty five Canadian Immigrant Awards. Mister Dylon just believes
in standing up for our community and standing up for
(06:10):
those people who need to be spoken for because our
society itself may be diminishing their voices. So why don't
we welcome Baldage to the show and listen to his
part of his life story as he tells us what
(06:32):
it is that he really wants to achieve and and
talks about the work that he has has done and
is has ongoing. H Well, it's it's an honor to
(07:21):
have you on the show. And you're when I consider
one of to be one of the great human beings
because you kept standing up for diversity, you kept standing
up for equality, and you continue to stand up for
inclusion in all the work that you do just for
(07:43):
the sake of what your daily routine looks like now
because you're no longer an Art and p officer and
you you have a you're serving the community in a
very different way. What does it actually mean to be
a senator in Canada?
Speaker 3 (07:59):
Or A thank you Michael. First of all, thank you
for having me on your show. You know, it's such
a pleasure of privilege. And we met a little while ago,
and you know, I was very very much you know,
grateful for this opportunity to be able to share a
few words. Yes, so my world has changed a little bit.
I got appointed on February seventh, and that's the recommendation
(08:23):
of the Prime Minister to the Governor General, who is
the person that ultimately is the one that.
Speaker 4 (08:29):
Appoints the citizens Canadians to the Senate.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
So as a senator, I have yet to take part
in any parliamentary sessions because we have When I was appointed,
the Senate was provode, Parliament was provote, and since then
we've gone through an election, and while we were going
through election, the Senate in Parliament was dissolved. And so
we are going back into the forty fifth Parliament on
(08:56):
the twenty sixth of May, which is coming up in
about a week's time, and that is when we will
restart all of the work. In the meantime, During this time,
I have been attending various events.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
Meeting with people.
Speaker 3 (09:13):
Folks have reached out to me around a variety of issues,
whether it's on issues around equity that we just spoke about,
whether it's on issues of you know, personal harm that
they're experiencing or things that have systems that are not working,
or where they believe that they have been you know, wronged.
So I've certainly getting that type of those types of
(09:36):
emails and requests, and I've spoken to a lot of
people since then, and I'm trying to support and assist
them in some of the issues that they're experiencing. I've
also traveled across the country in different places, or was
in Montreal and Toronto, in Calgary.
Speaker 4 (09:53):
And attending different events and lending my.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
Voice to various work that is being conducted around the country,
where it's law enforcement and you know, advancing various strategies
in confronting the challenge of organized crime and the opiate
crisis that we're that we're moving through and the toxic
dart supply, or whether it's around just supporting organizations that
(10:19):
are doing some fantastic work and building uh, you know,
the next generation, supporting youth providing support for community that
is struggling with mental health and addictions, that type of
that type of advocacy work has been certainly part of
the part of the duties, if you are, responsibilities that
(10:41):
have taken on here since uh since being appointed as
a senator in the Senate.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Yeah, well, on a mental health issue, what kind of
changes do you think we should see, especially after the
Lapou Lapoo incident where a person who was diagnosed with
mental health uh was out on a day pass from
(11:07):
wherever he was hospitalized, and this massive thing happens is
they are are we looking into how we can re
assess people or or make some major changes to to
mental health in diagnosis. That so that it's shameful what
(11:27):
happened to the people. It's also shameful that he was
allowed out. They could have been prevented, right, incredible tragedy.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
I mean, you know, I certainly my heart goes up
to the family members, the victims, the people of the community.
And I certainly was one of those people, and I
know many of us did picked up our phone the
next morning when we heard about the event and reached
out to all of our Filipino friends and just to
make sure that they were safe and uh and talk
(11:59):
to them and offer our both our support and connolences
and so the.
Speaker 4 (12:06):
And it would be it would be.
Speaker 3 (12:07):
Inappropriate for me to comment on that case specifically, just
because their process is underweight. Now there's an investigation, there's
an inquiry, there's all kinds of work that's being done,
and I certainly don't want to derail it or misleaded
in any way, you know, and allow that process to
take take its a due course. What I think, generally speaking,
(12:31):
when it comes to mental health, there's a lot that
we still don't know in my view, and there's a
lot that we still are learning and our I mean
because if we did, you know, we would not allow
for tragedies like these to happen. If we did know
everything that we need to know about how mental health
(12:51):
impacts people and challenges folks, and you know, we had
an understanding of that, we wouldn't have these types of events.
So I think there's a lot there there's still being
an uncertain expert in the mental health field, and you know,
I wouldn't be able to comment too much on it.
But what I what I do know and what I
(13:12):
do understand is that this is an area that we
do need to turn our attention towards. There are many
that suffer that many that suffer from it, There are
many that struggle with it. And you know, firstly removing
the stigma round mental health and making sure that they're
safe spaces and low barrier you know, approaches that we
(13:34):
can provide for folks that are moving through a difficult
time in their lives, whether it's through long term trauma,
whether it's uh, you know, generational, or whether it's something
that has come about because of you know, addiction or
some other some other harm uh some other incidents. So
with that, I think there are many organizations that are
(13:56):
you know, already in place and we could use more UH.
And I know all the provincial government is certainly turning
their mind and their energy towards uh, you know, providing
that support UH. And I think we all know that
there are times where folks will not have you know,
all of their facility to be able to make good decisions.
(14:19):
And when that takes place and there are triggers or
signals or you know, flags that come forward, I think
we at that point as a community, as a society,
we owe it both to that individual into the into
society at large, to put in place measures that protects
(14:40):
both the individual and society uh as they move through
that time, and provide them with the support, provide them
with whatever it is that they need to move through
that period. Uh and to be able to come out
of it on.
Speaker 4 (14:56):
The other side better health here, being able.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
To back into society and contributed a way that we
all expect of each other and you know, honor the
contract that we have with each other of being good citizens.
Speaker 1 (15:10):
Yeah, yeah, well you answered answered the question. Exactly what
I was looking for was. It wasn't like that specific event.
It's like, how do we not have another one happen?
You know? And that's and that's the contract between all
of us as citizens, the citizens of our world. It
(15:31):
is not to do harm to each other. So so yeah,
and you're you're, you're, you are no stranger to people
doing harm with each other. Because with thirty years as
a police officer.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
Yes, thirty five years, sorry.
Speaker 3 (15:55):
That's all right, three nine twenty nine years in the RCMP,
and then I spent another five and a half six
years the Organized Crime Agency also the law enforcement as
a police officer focused on organized crime and games.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
Yeah, yeah, so I imagine that you did. You've seen
more than one of of of what of these types
of events happened? So you told a story when we
were in the Surrey Library when I first actually got
to meet you face to face instead of through uh,
(16:31):
through a film about your early experiences as an ARC
and P officer and someone who I would say was
trying to be prejudiced towards you, but it backfired on
it because you kept appearing doing your job. So maybe
(16:54):
fill in the blanks on that a little bit.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
Yeah, yeah, I think you know, And that's not just
one story. There are many instances like that, and I
think you know, we certainly my journey in the r
c MP was a little unique and to the journey
of many others, being the first to churven r c
n B also the first one to be allowed to
(17:19):
wear turven in the r c MP.
Speaker 4 (17:21):
You know, after a very long drawn out, you know,
sort of debate.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Within within within Canada, within within the within the public, you.
Speaker 4 (17:32):
Know, over over a year and a half nineteen eighty
nine to about nineteen ninety.
Speaker 3 (17:39):
Where you know, the question around symbols and religious religious articles,
traditional articles that we hold a deer and are important
to who we are as individuals, and it's part of
our identity and how we present ourselves daily. Uh, it
(18:01):
was being questioned, and you know, I certainly was challenged
by the RCMP to abandon my articles of faith and
shave my beard, remove my turban, and to comply with
the existing uniform at the time, which really was in
contraard was it was in contravention of the Charter of Rights, uh,
(18:25):
and the rights that we all hold as citizens of
this country. So I wasn't prepared to, uh, you know,
compromise who I was, my identity. And you know, I've
often said that if I was prepared to compromise something
so important to myself that I would give up my
(18:47):
identity and my faith, my way of life, then I
don't know what the RCMB. How could the RCM be
replace trust in me? How would they ever have confidence
in me to carry out the work on a daily basis?
If I could sell myself in a simple way, and
I guess I'd put it that way, why wouldn't I
then sell myself just to the next highest bidder that
(19:08):
came along and said, well, we'll give you this much,
and uh, you know, would be the r CNP. So
I think principles and values are important, and these were
my principles and these were my values that I was
not prepared to abandon and so but they you know,
classed with the r c MP's UH policy uniform policy
and UH. And there was a there was a period
(19:29):
of time where we needed to reflect and what is
it that we are hoping to accountlish share in Canada.
What is it that you know, multicultural multicultural resum really
means it was part of the constitution. What does it
mean to be a Canadian citizen with rights under the
Trumpet rights? All those questions were you know, and foreign
and center. So you know, there were many that felt
(19:50):
that I should comply and conform with the r CNP
uniform but that wasn't the law.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
The policy. The uniform policy is simply that policy.
Speaker 3 (20:00):
The law and the rights are what supersede all things,
even the laws of this country. The rights of citizens
supersede uh. You know, laws cannot be a laws cannot uh,
you know, supersede the rights of an individual. And so
the first thing that the RCMV officer does is make
sure that the rights of an individual are protected and
(20:23):
we have to have reasonable violence to arrest someone. We
must have you know, evidence to allow us to take
away the very uh, you know, an important right that
we all hold dear, which is our right to freedom.
And so when it comes to our rights, uh, they
are you know, they are supreme, they are the absolute
(20:47):
you know direction that that is the absolute instruction of
this country, that this is how we will behave So
when the policy of the r c MP came face
to face with the Charter of Rights, it did not
it could not withstand and that test, and that is
why the change was made. It's not because of me
or anything like that, but it was this is the
(21:07):
rule of law of this land. This is who we
are as Canadians, this is what Canada is about, and
this is what we fought for. This is these are
the rights that we fought for. These are the rights
that we hold dear and so and they should be
applied across the board to all Canadians. And it was
important that at that time, you know, that was announced
(21:30):
and so certainly by allowing me to uh, you know,
keep my articles of faith and serve was just the
technical process that we went through in making sure that
the Charter rights were uphold and my rights were UPHELDLD.
Speaker 4 (21:51):
What comes after that.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
Is a human factor that you know, as I've said
many times before, you can legislate diversity, you can legislate
a change of the uniform, but including people in the
organization requires other people to be ready to include you.
So the first few years in the r CNP, of course,
you know, came with a lot of challenges, a lot
(22:14):
of you know, folks that were not ready for that change.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
I mean, look it, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 3 (22:19):
I had a lot of allies, so I had a
lot of friends, a lot of people that stood by me.
But similarly, there were also people that were not ready
to accept this change, and so they took it out
of me because I was the only person there at
the time, and that included you know, uh, not willing
to back me up when I was out on patrol,
(22:40):
not including me in different work when you know, when
I was clarity a member of the organization, and that
a member of that unit, uh, excluding me front files
and investigations where you know, they thought that I wouldn't
be able to contribute all of this driven by a bias,
a prejudice, you know, and and oftentimes racism. Uh so,
(23:05):
and I share with folks that, you know, one of
my my first complaint, my first probably complaint, uh you know,
came on the day that I graduated, because someone at
least saw me graduating. And you know, on the day
that we graduated, it's a pretty big deal. Six months
of hard work and you get your badge and you graduate.
(23:28):
Uh and so on that day, you know, you're with
your family. Your troopmates become your family. So on the
day of graduation, it's very emotional, you know, and through
that we congratulate each other, we hug each other. So
my first complaint was from a citizen out east who
thought that it was undecoming a police officer to hug
another police officer, and so they made the complaint and
(23:51):
a police officer, you know, an RCMPI officer, accepted the complaint,
which is I think the video travesty instead of saying
this is well, what are you talking about?
Speaker 4 (24:02):
This is not you know, this is not wrong.
Speaker 3 (24:05):
And then also accepting the complain against me but not
against all of my troop mates because the complaint suggested
that it was a it was a police officer with
the turbent that was you know, offending them and that
that was offensive.
Speaker 4 (24:20):
And so that complaint went from the you know, I
believe it.
Speaker 3 (24:25):
Was out in Ontario someplace, and then from Ontario went
you know, Ottawa, the headquarters. From Ottawa, I came to Vancouver.
From Vancouver, it came to Prince George. And so there
were that many people who looked at that complainant still
allowed it to go ahead, uh to the you know,
uh to the commanding officer or at that time, the
(24:47):
district officer in in Prince George Randie, who looked at it,
and he phoned me and he said, Voltage Constable Dylon,
I'm calling you because there's a complaint against you.
Speaker 4 (24:59):
But I also once you know, you're not going to
see it. I said, okay.
Speaker 5 (25:03):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (25:04):
He said, I am absolutely uh, you know, just floored
uh and disgusted by the fact that we actually accepted
this complaint. And I am going to send my remarks
back through the change so that everybody understands how how
I feel.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Exactly that this was not just a travesty that.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
People continue to propagate and continue to you know, fuel
this frivolous and vexations complaint.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
So that was my first complaint.
Speaker 3 (25:35):
Michael, and I think that's that's the stage for many
other things that came along after that.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Wow, I'm thinking myself, A hug is like, oh, but
you're a human being. First human beings hug and for
that matter, it's like there aren't there are other beings
on this planet that also hug. It's like, so what
(26:01):
is wrong? Well that I did want to ask you
this because to hear from a devout zek person what
the turbine and the beard actually mean to you as
as a religious symbol, as as as a person of faith.
(26:22):
And I think it's important that people actually here here
you you state what your faith means to you, because
there are a lot of listeners who are faith driven.
Speaker 4 (26:33):
So of course, look, this is uh, this is my
way of life.
Speaker 3 (26:38):
I've not I've not never cut my hair, you know,
since since coming into this world, since.
Speaker 4 (26:44):
I was born.
Speaker 3 (26:45):
Uh so my faith uh And so initially, you know,
my commitment to my way of life or my beard,
my turbine, my hair and sworn here was more because
of my commitment to my father. And my father was
a practicing Sikh. He was a devout sick and he
he passed on that identity and those principles and those
(27:07):
values to me. So I learned from him and I
he was my first robi, he was my mentor. I
absolutely held him in you know, such high regard. I uh,
you know, I respected all that he did, uh, you know.
And and so when and before his passing and before
(27:28):
we came to Canada, one of the last few things
that he had shared with me was that don't lose
your identity, stay true to who you are and so
and in growing up, I also got to learn about
my faith, and you know, became a very well versed
in our traditions and our culture and our history and
(27:49):
and so in the Sekh faith, our hair, you know those.
And again, this is not about judgment, This is not
about imposing, This is not.
Speaker 4 (27:59):
About anything but those who choose uh.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
To follow the Seek faith. And everyone is on their
own journey uh and follow the tenets of the Seek faith.
And one of the tenants is that you will keep
unshorn here Uh. So I have long hair. Both my
beer is tied up right now. It's not shaved or
anything like that, but it's just in a knot and
tied up underneath punch.
Speaker 4 (28:21):
And Uh, if you go on line and uh you know, and.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
You type in my name your wile, so on Google
you'll also see versions of me where where my beer
I'm nodded and longed into my down to my work
and so the and this is just to that professional
walk to be able to work in different spaces and
there's no restriction against that.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
The turban holds my hair, The turban protects my hair.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
And the turbun is considered within the seek faith our
crown and uh you know, uh a formal way and
appropriate way to manage our hair. But also the turbrene
was a gift from our teachers and especially our tenth Master,
Good Gobn Singh who you know, directed us to wear
(29:12):
turbrens to protect our hair.
Speaker 4 (29:14):
So the durven becomes an article of faith.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Through that process and through that direction instructions from our teacher,
from our Guru, from our profit. And that is why
the turbine holds such important uh you know reference within
for seeks within to seek faith. It's also tied to
our you know, identity and who we are, uh and
(29:38):
in our commitment to the way of life and the
Sacre way of life. And it's also a signal to
others that we stand for certain values and principles, that
we are guided by UH certain disciplines, and that we
can be counted on to serve in that way. So
and there are many many organizations around the world that
(30:01):
are you know, supported by, sponsored by and run by
UH six and sick organizations that meet the principles and
the discipline I mean cast one that comes to mind,
you know, UH here in Vancouver there's a good non
free kitchen and all of these organizations such as Another
(30:24):
One Foundation, all these organizations, their purpose is to give back,
Their purpose is to serve in service is a very
important you know anchor for six selfless service especially, and
it underpins all the things that we engage in. Now Again,
(30:45):
as I shared before, and I want to make sure
that I preface this and a cabot this that you know,
everyone is on their own journey. So you may not
see somebody that wears deterurbined or has long beer and
long hair, but considers themselves are sick.
Speaker 4 (30:58):
They are. They are sick.
Speaker 3 (31:00):
They're on their own journey to move to whatever stage
they want to move to. And so when I've been
to ask before, love, why can't you do that why
can't you, you know, be that, Well, I'll be regressing
if I did that, I'll be going backwards. And so,
you know, we want to be moving forward. We want
to be learning, We want to be you know, getting
(31:21):
closer to the principles and the discipline and the values
of our faith and our way of life and and
but there's no time going on it anyone and everybody
can be on their own journey and that's up to do.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
Yeah, I totally agree. I like what you you answered
the question about why you couldn't be the person who
cut your hair so busy early earlier on when you
said you were also honoring the traditions they were passed
down through your father, and that you were honoring your
(31:56):
father by by remembering who you are. I thought that
was very valuable.
Speaker 3 (32:03):
You know, absolutely, you know who I am and who
I am today is UH has a lot to do
with the principle's values, discipline, guidance, you know, trust that's
been that was placed in me by my father and
and I carry that forward. UH, and I hope to
(32:23):
give some of that to my children.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Well from one from one I I know out of
the Zeke faith, it's a very peaceful service driven you know, humility, uh,
and being humble or part of that. It's not uh,
let's try to show I'm I'm greater than is no,
(32:49):
I am here equal to and willing to help. So
sort of sort of a faith which which is amazing.
You know we need more of that in our world, right.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
But you know, yeah, absolutely, Michael, I would say that,
you know, other than to see faith, All faiths, from
what I've seen and you know I have in my view,
are driven by from a place of doing good. H
you know, if we can, if you if we can
literally you know, bring it down to distill it to
(33:24):
you know, a very simple sort of sentence. It's about
doing good. And so in this sea, faith is no different.
I think the intention is to do good. Now, you know,
we as human beings can conoct even religion, even faith,
and by you know, allowing our own sort of biases,
(33:46):
our own prejudice, our own sort of thinking, in our
own uh you know, blind spots, and in our own
sort of thinking, get.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
In the way of.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
What the faith would have us do, what the health
would have us to, what the teachings would have us
to do. So I think it's uh it's about continually
reflecting back uh and resetting our own thinking against in
with the teachings of our life, our faith or and
(34:18):
these principles.
Speaker 4 (34:20):
And so that's what guides me.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
So if I am, you know, fearless in standing with
people being an ally, it's because I know that my
faith stands with me when I am standing with them.
So I don't have any worry. I don't know not
I'm not you know, in contradiction of anything. It is
who we are and what we are and what I
(34:43):
am and what my principles or values are. So it's
not in contradiction of anything. Rather it is alignment with
how we actually are supposed to be.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Yeah, I say this, uh because I used to I
used to be on a rescue team and it was
steep terray, which meant I had to jump off of
cliffs in order to go save people because they fell
off that cliff or were trapped somehow. And it was
(35:17):
a trust that you had with your with your teammates. Right,
and you tell saying all those things that you did
about your faith being so important to you, your identity
being so important to you, and that you're not willing
to compromise those things. That tells me that if you're
standing on the other end of that ballet line and
I'm jumping off that cliff to go save somebody, You're
(35:40):
gonna hold tight.
Speaker 4 (35:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
And I can't see how anyone could see that differently,
you know.
Speaker 3 (35:50):
Yeah, Well, I'm with you. I I that's a great example.
That's a that's a great way to put it. You know,
I think folks were principles, were values, folks that you know,
in my view most of the time that you can
depend on because they will what will guide them or
their values and principle and they will not be swayed
by the moment or at the time or where the
(36:12):
winds that are you know, popular during that during.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
That period or whatever the pressure is.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
So uh in those instances, I think, you know, and
I've shared this with the young people and I go
and speak with kids and students and schools, is that
you know, your values are your anchors, and the storms
of life will come, uh, and if your anchors are
not in place during that storm, then you are going
(36:40):
to be uh, you know, beaten to the rocks.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
And you know you'll be in shambles trying to figure
out which way to go. So have those in place,
align with them, be clear, draw your you know, uh,
be very confident about those values. And then when the
storms come, you're ready. You're not going to be swayed,
You're not going to be taken advantage of. You will
be able to move through that strength and courage and
(37:05):
be ready for the next one.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
So those anchors in and of course your courage, they've
been the secret sauce to your success.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Well, yes, I would say one thousand percent. Uh, you know,
and I and I and I guess I would put
it this way, And this is the other thing and
share with students is that.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
First understand what your passions are.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
What is it that you're living for, What exactly is
it that you are looking to do? What you're what
are you looking to accomplish. When I first came into
the RCMP, you know, it was out of service. When
I when I started to make a decision in my
life of what career to pursue. Initially I wanted to
become a lawyer.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (37:47):
And then they started volunteering. The RCMP saw what the
community needed. There was a lack of representation.
Speaker 1 (37:53):
Uh.
Speaker 3 (37:54):
There was a lot of folks within the community that
couldn't speak the language. I was providing the service. I
was buying support to them. There was a need and
so that became the objective. That became the desire to
serve a community that was being underrepresented or underserved. And
that's why I joined, not the RCMP, but I looked
to join a police force because my intention was to
(38:16):
become a police officer, not an RCNB officer. And I
applied to every police department in the Wormingland, and so
it just happened that there was this thing depriven thing
that happened, and there was this huge controversy that took place,
and the RCMP was the first, after all of that
was sorted to hire me. Once I came into the RCMP,
(38:38):
it you know, completed that work. I fulfilled that role
and I was able to serve. I was able to
be there and you know and support the community and
with my languages and my cultural background traditions, and they
saw themselves being represented in an organization that oftentimes it
(38:58):
was difficult to trust because there was no connection, there
was no relationship, there was no you couldn't see yourself
in that in that organization, and that's you know that
that's a large part of creating trust and creating confidence
in that organization. So that knew, UH that the organization
can be supported by the community as well. And so
(39:19):
that went on and soon after, you know, many years
after working within the rcn V, I then started to
see the issue around youth UH and UH and youth
criminality and gangs and organized crime and how you know,
South Asian young men were overrepresented within gangs and also
especially in the in the killings, and we've lost hundreds
(39:44):
of young men because of gang vitonce and and and
organized crime. So I started to turn my mind towards that,
and that became my passion. That became the thing that
I wanted to try to support, help and possibly resolve
and you know, find solutions towards.
Speaker 4 (40:04):
So I started doing that work. And with that work,
you know, I was able to create a variety of.
Speaker 3 (40:11):
Initiatives consent in place, and through that, you know, I
then went into the Organized crime Agency. So the success
you speak of, Michael is not what I chased. What
I chased was the service. The chase was around the passion.
The chase was around how can I support this, How
(40:32):
can I try to fix this? How can I lend
my voice to this, How can I contribute to it
so that it's it's less of an issue it there's
opportunities here, ways to resolve it.
Speaker 4 (40:45):
The success fodels, the success follows.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
And when you start to do that, then the places
where you can have your voice heard are places where
you then choose.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
To move towards. So I did not within the RCNP.
Speaker 3 (41:02):
I sought out spaces and also promotions that would help
me contribute towards the work that I had a passion around.
It wasn't just because I wanted to get promoted, but
I wanted to.
Speaker 4 (41:15):
Advance some of the work and from there.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
That is why exactly why I lend my name to
the provincial campaign and election last year, was.
Speaker 4 (41:26):
Because I wanted to join.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
I had done as much as I could in the RCNP,
in the Organized Crime Agency, and I felt that the
only other way that I could advance some of the
work that I wanted to do was to you know,
being in public service as a politician and as ann LA.
Speaker 4 (41:43):
That didn't turn out the way we wanted it to,
but that's okay. That's the part of the journey.
Speaker 3 (41:49):
And here I am now with this role as a
Senate as a senator in the Senate, and I'm still
pursuing that work, and I'm still working on advancing in
his and strategies and looking to meet with people and
talk about how we can bring about different approaches to
address the issue of organized crime and gangs in our
(42:10):
in our nation.
Speaker 1 (42:12):
Yeah, organized crime and gangs is is a problem with
that I'm not unfamiliar with. I remember and many other
communities I've lived in with Native people trying to tell
them it's like, look, this isn't a way. That not
(42:34):
the way to do this. You don't have to keep
going through this revolving door in and out of jail
being able to say, oh I can do that kind
of time standing on my head. It's not a positive statement.
Find a way to Did you compassionately serve our community
(42:56):
and help others grow within that positivity? That's the way
to serve you know, Yes.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
Yes, absolutely, And I think that's for anybody. And that's
what I say to young people is that don't you know,
don't chase the promotion, don't chase the position, chase the
work that drives you.
Speaker 4 (43:20):
What is it, What is it that you're looking to
bring change?
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Around what is it that you're looking to solve, what
is it that you're looking to contribute towards. And once
you're clear about that, then what position you need to
be in to do that work becomes clear and then
you're no longer having to be something that you're not to.
Speaker 4 (43:39):
Try to be in that role, but rather you're now.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
Speaking from a place of passion and a place of commitment,
and those positions you know, become available to you.
Speaker 1 (43:48):
Yeah, so it's you. You are doing amazing work right now.
What's in the future for you?
Speaker 3 (44:00):
Well, thank you. I appreciate that. I'm very in my
role as as a senator, and I certainly hope that
you know, I will I'm able to advance some of
the some of the initiatives and some of the things
that I've been talking about for many, many years now
when it comes to organize crime and Geese as well,
and has continued to be an advocate for you know,
(44:20):
equity and diversity and create greater spaces that are inclusive
of all of us and also address systemic challenges systemic racism,
systemic discrimination in workplaces and informal spaces. So I certainly
want to continue to learn my voice to all of that.
What the future holds, well, we'll see. I certainly, you know,
(44:42):
I think I'm here for some time now, you know,
as a senator, we we're here for until the age
of seventy five, if you want to work that long.
So for now, I think my focus is to learn
everything that goes on the Senate and all of the rules,
all of the you know, the all of the workings
(45:05):
of the Senate, and then also leverage uh, this current position,
my office and this new role to advance some of
the some of the strategies that have been talking about,
some of the things that I would like to see,
uh come to fruition when it when it uh, you know,
and and address the challenges of organized crime in gainings.
(45:28):
Because as far as you operate, operrate, you know, crisis
is concerned the toxic drug supply, well it's it's a
it's directly linked to organized crime. Toxic drug supply doesn't
just show up, you know, magically. It's being brought here
or you know, being produced here by organized crime. So
if we don't deal with the wholesalers, if we don't
(45:53):
deal with the producers, we don't deal with the source
of the problem. We'll only treating the symptoms. We're only
treating the after effect, and so not that that's not important,
it is we continue, We need to continue to you know,
show up our clerks, our voters wherever we can to
(46:15):
both interfere and interrupt and reduce that toxic drug supply
and getting and prevent that toxic drug supply and getting
into our communities. At the same breath, we can also
do more, in my view, to combat directly those that
are responsible for this prison in our communities.
Speaker 1 (46:38):
Yeah, it is. It is truly truly poisoned in in
more than one way. It's tragic to have have such
things be in our in our society. Medications do great
things for people, but when they're misused as drugs, it's
(47:00):
a definite problem. So yeah, thank you for coming on
the show. It's been a real pleasure having you and
to finding such a like minded individual like you that
believes that service and community uh should be some of
our top priorities.
Speaker 4 (47:21):
You know, thank you, Thank you for having me on.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
Michael appreciate it real longer for me as well to
be able to share my thoughts here, and thank you
for making space and allowing my voice to be heard.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
Yeah, So usually I ask people the best ways to
get a hold of you is if you live in
British Columbia and you need to get get a hold
of our senator, go directly to his website. I will
put put the website in the in the liner notes
(47:57):
for the episode. And if it's a real issue, I'm
sure that you'll hear about it. You'll hear back, because
that's the type person you are, right.
Speaker 4 (48:12):
So, yeah, absolutely lots of folks have reached out.
Speaker 3 (48:16):
There are some things that you know, we a senator
can provide assistance in and support and look at advancing
issues and try to find resolve for them.
Speaker 4 (48:28):
But there are other things that are.
Speaker 3 (48:29):
Certainly outside of our outside of our preview and not
something that we can and and I almost absolutely share
all of that. I mean, there's there's some things that
just are outside of our circle influence, ProView and our.
Speaker 4 (48:43):
And our power.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
Yeah, all right again, thank you and thank you everybody
for listening, and we'll see you next time.
Speaker 5 (49:01):
Then stop back shoes.
Speaker 2 (49:05):
So I don't know.
Speaker 5 (49:19):
So I who from action?
Speaker 1 (49:23):
So ny.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
This he says a reason to.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Save me.
Speaker 5 (49:46):
Choose we can't tr curbit.
Speaker 4 (50:00):
Oh past.
Speaker 5 (50:24):
You can yes see. She goes to the strip stop stuff,
(50:48):
but now changes.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
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