June 16, 2024 • 49 mins
What if cutting off our curiosity ensures our demise? Both individually and collectively, and I mean that LITERALLY. What if curiosity could heal the world?
If investing in curiosity results in the honoring and the cultivation of life, represented in healthy ecosystems, maybe the natural result of cutting off curiosity is homogeneity which slowly cuts off the possibility of life.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/inspiring-stories--2917948/support.
If investing in curiosity results in the honoring and the cultivation of life, represented in healthy ecosystems, maybe the natural result of cutting off curiosity is homogeneity which slowly cuts off the possibility of life.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/inspiring-stories--2917948/support.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:04):
Thank you for listening to de picturesMedia radio. You rat you readything to
(00:31):
me? Oh well, jus wellnot a bad stop along at need sol
(01:15):
smash stop along? Is it dead? These imensity? What if cutting off
(01:38):
our curiosity ensures our demise both individuallyand collectively? And our next guest literally
means, what if our curiosity couldheal the world? If investing in our
curiosity results in on and the cultivationof life represented in healthy ecosystems. Maybe
(02:09):
the natural result of cutting off curiosityis homogeny, which is slowly cutting off
the possibility of life. So ournext guest as Shauna Francis. She is
a keynote speaker and she also facilitatesworkshops and is a scholar of an ethical
(02:36):
Leadership and Living. She is thefounder and CEO of Consostinate LLC. Shauna
has been interviewed by more than onehundred other podcasters in the world trying to
spread her message about exactly what we'vejust talked about. She wants to cultivate
(03:04):
our human power into things that willbring us back to some oneness with nature,
ecosystems, and also help promote maybeeven diversity. So why don't we
welcome Shanna to the to the show, and let's hear a little bit about
(03:25):
her story and what it is thatshe wants to do for people. We
can one Seana, welcome to theshow, and you have a fantastic story.
(04:11):
And just wait, I also remembersomething else. You have a neual
diversity, don't you. Yeah,I'm nerd divergent. Yeah I have ADHD.
Yeah. Hey, I love Ilove having nerdivergent people on the show.
It's it makes it that much morefun, right because hey, it's
like he as a lot of mylisteners know, I'm extremely dyslexic, so
(04:35):
you are also nerd evergente. Itjust means our brains work, right.
So, yeah, tell us alittle bit about how you got started with
the keynote speaking and how you cameabout your message and all. Yeah.
Absolutely, So, first, thanksfor having me. I appreciate being on
(04:58):
the show. So. I wasborn into an abusive household and raised inside
of an evangelical Christian cult, andin those environments you experience extremely unethical,
very coercive, and controlling leadership ifwe won't even call it leadership, in
which your humanity is not honored,you are not respected, and the people
(05:20):
in positions of power do not haveto take accountability, but you always do.
And in those environments, you know, I realized that I wasn't safe.
I realized I couldn't show up asmy full self. I realized I
needed to protect myself constantly. Andwhen when you're in a constant state of
(05:42):
protection, it's really hard to growinto your creativity, into the things that
empower you into and discover your purpose, discover what you want your purpose to
be, Discover how you want tochange the world or be a part of
the world, and show up inthe world. World it's very stifling,
right, There's no humanity in it. And so when I left those environments
(06:09):
at twenty six, I started toask myself who I wanted to be,
and how I wanted to show upin the world, and what I wanted
to believe what actually resonated with mewhen I actually believed allow myself to sit
with that. I also, atthe same time begin to recognize there was
reflections of the environments I had grownup in. In the environment, like
in our society at large, right, there was reflections of that. There
(06:30):
was instances that I could see allaround me, and I was like,
oh, okay, right, Andso that began me leaving and me you
know, beginning the process of discoveringwho I am. Also had me asking
a lot of important questions of like, how do I want to show up
in the world, how do Iwant to empower the people around me?
(06:54):
What is healthy relationship? Because noneof those things had been modeled for me.
Right. Part of child is thatyou have healthy humans around you providing
a model for what's possible or healthyrealities. I didn't have that, and
so I had to create that understanding. And I looked for models in books
(07:14):
and in you know, it lookedfor incredible organizations and incredible people where I
could understand leadership from a healthy andethics standpoint. And that started. Now
what's become more than a decade worthof learning and study on what is it
to be an ethical human and whatis it to be an ethical leader?
And ultimately about three years ago,I finally gave myself permission to fully step
(07:39):
into that. So I had beenworking with entrepreneurs and business owners, longtime
business owners all the way, youknow, from my early thirties into my
mid thirties, and in kind ofa coaching capacity both you know, individual
and group coaching. Lots of peopleare coming to me for advice and so
on and so forth, and Iand I recognized it was valuable, but
(08:03):
I didn't I didn't know how tomonetize it. I didn't know how to
step into that fully. And youknow, it took me some time,
and I sought out some mentors,and then I was like, Okay,
this is you know, this iswhere I think I need to be spending
my time. This is really importantwork. Because what I didn't realize as
I was doing all of this research, all of this learning along the way,
(08:26):
you know, and distilling it throughmy particular understanding of the world and
having grown up in such severe courseof environments. Right, so my interpretation
of these things was very specific,is that other people didn't know these things
already. I thought I was learningthings that other people, in some way,
shape or form already knew, andmaybe I understood them a little bit
(08:46):
bit differently. But I didn't understandthat a lot of people were looking for
the language that I had also beenlooking for, that a lot of people
were also trying to discover how toshow up this way, you know,
how to empower their leadership. Theycould empower their people so that they could
drive innovation and profitability. Right,they just didn't have the models. And
so you know, that kind ofbroke open three years ago where I stepped
(09:11):
into that FULLI and I was like, okay, this is what we're doing.
What we're going to be doing publicspeaking, consulting, and workshop facilitation.
And I was developing my workshops,started dispilding this information and giving it
finite language. I mean, that'sthe thing. You can know a lot,
but until you hone that language andyou know how to share it with
people around you, it's powerful foryou, but it's difficult to relay it
(09:37):
to other people. And so Ihad to spend a lot of time learning
how to hone the language and shareit with people in ways that were really
impactful. Right, it makes sense. Hang on a second. You know,
we all we're all seeking for thatpurpose. But when if you grow
(10:03):
up an environment that suppresses your growthin only or try I say, it
suppresses your self power and only empowerssomeone else. Yeah, then you have
an an interesting obstacle to get around, shall we say? I don't only
you can answer how difficult that obstaclewas? Sure, Yeah, I mean
(10:30):
The interesting thing that I recently satdown and was really thinking about this because
I wrote an article that was specificallyasking about confidence and how I gained confidence,
you know, became who I amtoday, and I was like,
oh, that's a really good question. I definitely want to answer that,
right, And it made me sitdown and really think about it. And
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for a long time, I was, you know, growing up in the
environments that I did, I wasforced and required to look for approval outside
of myself. I was I wasalways having to seek the approval of God,
of men who would put themselves inpositions of power over me. I
was always having to seek this approvalso I would be seen deemed good and
(11:13):
worthy. Right, can you hearthat background noise? I'm so sorry.
Okay. So, in finding youknow, in grounding myself in who I
wanted to be and how I wantedto show up in the world, I
realized that I that I never actuallyneeded anyone else's approval, right, that
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I just needed to sit with myown approval. I need to decide how
I wanted to show up in theworld, and that no one had authority
over me. I didn't give themright, not as especially not as an
adult, right as a child.You don't really necessarily have a choice.
But people only have authority over youthat you give them. And so when
I took back authority over my ownlife, I gained confidence because confidence comes
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from within, you know. It'seager that constantly seeks exterior approval and constantly
needs to be reassured. It's confidencethat continues to blossom and grow from within
ourselves. You can only find thatwhen you can sit with and be present
with who you are and how youwant to show up in the world,
and you're no longer seeking external validation. The only mean we don't meet each
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other, because we absolutely do,and we need to live in community with
one another. But living in communitywith one another is not constant approval seeking.
Those are not the same thing,right. It's like the difference between
say, a codependent situation versus aindependent but I'm leaning on you sort of
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situation. Yeah, I mean youcan say, you know, because even
just a group of two or threepeople can be community, right, it's
the difference between codependency and community.Community is based on healthy relationship, and
in my work I posit that allhealthy ethical relationship requires curiosity, respect,
and accountability to be constantly fostered andconsistently invested in in ourselves and in our
(13:09):
relationships. And so when you dothat, then you're fostering healthy community as
opposed to codependence. Codependence lacks accountability, it lacks respect, it lacks boundaries.
You know, I'm not a mentalhealth professional, but grew up in
a codependent relationship with my mother,So you know, I absolutely recognize,
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you know, for myself what showedup there. Well in that culture situation,
of course, I guess your motherwas code dependent, and then whoever
the leadership was was trying to pushcodependence upon you, yeah, and put
you in a situation where you don'tnecessarily you have a choice, obviously,
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but you don't really, especially asa child, because you have no healthy
models. You don't know how tonot be codependent. You don't know how
to show up as a healthy person. You don't know how to hold boundaries
from adults who literally hold your lifein their hands. So you develop codependency
as a means of survival. Andyou know, codependency hurts both people or
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all of the people who were involved, because it's unhealthy. It's unhealthy,
and it's a sort of crabs ina barrel situation. Right, in order
for you to survive, you justkind of both have to stay stuck,
right, So you must have hadat some point you had to have some
(14:33):
light bulb moment? What did thatlook like? Sure I had lots of
them. I had lots of them, but they're kind of gas lit out
of you. Right, you startedto like second guess yourself. It's very
it's hard to explain unless you've grownup in it. It's really hard to
explain. But yeah, there waslots of light bulb moments in which I
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tried to assert that I had rightto have my thoughts and feelings. I
had a right to be, youknow, to have the questions, to
bring forth the questions they did.I had a right to point out the
holes in the information being relayed tome that I needed to be submissive to
and obedient too, and and soI would, I would assert myself.
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But in those moments, there wasso you know, there was so much
push back, in so much trauma. Pushback would be the nicest way to
say it. There was so muchpain that was incurred on my part to
put me back in my place rightby the people in authority over me that
(15:43):
I you know, you just stuffit down. You stop sharing with the
world, You stop telling the worldyou know what you wish could be or
what you even observed, because yourecognize that it's not safe, right.
You recognize that you are seeing somethingthat other people also see, but they're
(16:04):
actively ignoring the harm it's causing them, actively perpetrating harm on purpose. They
know they're harming me, and soyou bringing it to their attention. That's
like looking a narcissist in the faceand telling them they're a narcissist. You
should never do that, because theyfind a way to turn it back on
you and make you the bad guy. Right. At some point, you
(16:27):
realize I'm being harmed by using myvoice. It's being turned on me,
it's being manipulated, and I knowthat's not my voice, and I know
that's not what I meant, butthat's what that's what you're keeping told you
meant, right, And so youat some point just like recede into yourself.
So there was these light bulb momentsall along the way, probably starting
(16:49):
when I was ten or eleven twelveas the oldest, but eventually right,
eventually I was old enough and Iwas. My father left and then I
was able to leave. So Ileft at twenty six. My father like
literally just abandoned the family and ransackedour house with other people from the church.
By the way, strange men ransackedour house with him. And so,
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you know, I left at twentysix and then was able to you
know, actually show up in theworld or figure out try to figure out
how to show up in the worldas myself. So who is Shanna?
So I'm a deeply curious person.I'm someone who wants to spend the rest
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of my life questioning what I knowand what I believe, expanding my perspectives,
connecting with the world and the peoplearound me. I'm somebody who wants
to continue to share what I've learnedwith people who want to understand it.
You know, I'm somebody who insistson using my voice to speak truth to
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power. I'm someone who insists thatthe people who are part of my life
be deeply invested in curiosity, respect, and accountability. It's a really good
way of telling whether or not you'resafe with someone, specifically long term.
Right then you really find out ifyou're safe with someone when there's a moment
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that they need to take accountability forand if they do so without prompting,
and they do so. And bythe way, accountability is not an apology,
and it's not punishment. It isyeah, it's taking responsibility for the
impact of our actions on the peopleand the lives that have been impacted,
and then learning more and doing better. So accountability is deeply tied to curiosity.
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So it's in those moments that youdiscover that, right, So that's
who I am. I'm somebody whowill spend the rest of my life learning
and know that I still won't knowa fraction of what there is to know
in the world, and sharing thelearning with people around me, as as
they asked me to, really,what are some of the biggest things that
you have learned? I think allof our journeys are really very personal journeys,
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right like your journey in owning abusiness, your journey in running a
business, your journey in whatever itis in your public life is a direct
reflection of your journey in your personallife. So one of the biggest things
I learned was that I could trustmyself and that my making a mistake or
making a bad decision was not areflection that I couldn't trust myself. It
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just meant I had more learning todo because failure, our mistakes are not
yes they are, they're harmful,but they become excessively more harmful and we
become somebody who is more committed toto protecting ourselves, whether showing up in
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a real relationship with the people aroundus when we deflect our responsibility, you
know, and accountability. So yeah, actually that's a pretty it's a pretty
large shrink of learning. And uhyeah, yeah, yeah, I mean
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I think I think there's some somepeople, some life coaches out there that
they take that and they and theyturn it into a t year program.
Yeah. I mean, you know, we all learn, we all learn
at our own pace, and Ithink at which somebody is able to really
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connect with somebody with something. It'salso like in finding a language that connects
with the client. You know,coaching is an aspect of my work.
It's not the main focus of mywork. What is an aspect of my
work, But ultimately the process ofcoaching is like finding the lifelanguage that specifically
connects to the person or persons you'retalking to. And sometimes that takes a
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while, you know, and italso then takes that person time to distill
that and figure out how to applyit to their own life and practice applying
it to their own life consistently.So you know, it could take some
It's definitely not going to take youtwo minutes, definitely not going to take
you two days to make that change. But you know, it could take
you two months, six months,two years. It could take the rest
(21:27):
of your life just to pend youknow. Well, that's the interesting part
about life and learning is we haveour lifetime to live and learn, right,
So there's no rush, Right,there's no rush. You know.
It's not about perfection, but itis about learning more and doing better consistently.
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Right, It's about consistent action,consistently leaning into our humanity. Yeah,
well, I was gonna say,also, is it doesn't take two
minutes to take the first step.It's only takes a couple of milliseconds to
take the first step towards it.Yeah. Yeah, but that's a vulnerability,
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and that's something that is that hasbeen weaponized against some people. And
so for some people, they needto go to therapy before they can even
begin that first step because they haveto learn how to trust themselves. And
learn how to surround themselves with peoplethey can also trust so they can take
that step. You know, yes, I understand that. But in that
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and of itself, if we ifwe see on the philosophical route, that
of itself is a step. Oh, it absolutely is to important to right.
Yeah, no, that is astep that becomes the first step is
the getting recognized, the help,the support, and we all need help
and support, we all need tofunction of community. But yes, that
(22:55):
is absolutely because you could you couldhave not taken that step, and you
could have stayed in whatever that religiouscult. I know, sometimes you call
it cult, sometimes you call thechurch. Yes, uh, but just
for my own definition, the churchto me is a community, not an
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entrapment. Yeah. I think communityis something that's healthy where all people are
honored and empowered and respected. Itbecomes a cult when you remove it starts
to slip into cultiness, when youstop investing in healthy and ethical relationship,
when respect is only reserved for thoseimpositions of power, and where accountability is
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only reserved for those people who haveno power. Yeah right, yeah,
yeah, I mean there's there's somuch for us to learn out there,
and you seem like a really goodteacher. I help, so I work
(24:03):
on it all the time. Imean sometimes I'm like, because my nervous,
spicy brain gets ahead of itself sometimes, So I've had to spend so
much time just practicing honing the languagein a way that keeps my brain engaged
and keeps my brain on track.If my brain loves so like pull it
(24:23):
threads and bring them together. Andthen and then sometimes the main message gets
lost and I'm like, hold on, we deviated too many times. Let's
get back on track, right.So you know, I spend a lot
of time rehearsing my workshops and mykeynotes. My keynotes are all written out
because my nerves, spicy brain.If I just tried to like go off
the cuff, like some speakers havelike a like a whole bunch of stories
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if they've memorized these little like versionsof stories that are you know, anywhere
thirty seconds to a couple of minuteslong, right, and they'll put them
together. I can't do that.My speeches are all written out. They're
all They're all something that I endup memorizing or having to use a teleprompter
to go through because otherwise I would, you know, an hour worth of
me talking and no one asking meany questions and helping getting me back on
(25:08):
track. I wouldn't Probably, itwouldn't be a disaster, but but after
a while I'd be exhausted just tryingto keep myself on tray. I totally
totally understand that even Okay, okay, let's pull the curtain back behind it,
behind the show. I have notesout for you on the screen somewhere
(25:30):
right. Good. I mean,you got it. I mean that's the
thing sometimes also like helps you bepresent, you know what I mean,
I'm not worried about what you needto say, and you have those it
helps you to be present and cantruly connect with the people. Like one
of my favorite things about delivering mykino or being giving a workshop or anything
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like that is that to me,it's it's it's like me and every single
individual in that room. I'm talkingto every single person, just me and
them, right, it becomes thisreally personal thing. I am not the
person who's afraid to look people inthe eyes. I'm the person who's actively
looking for the people who are lookingat me back in the eyes. Right.
So I love connecting with the audience. I love those moments of like,
(26:15):
is this resonating right? So thatI can learn? If I'm teaching
people well, because that's where Ifind out, I'm like, are they
not in along? Did they seemto be processing right? So that I
can I can hone my skills asa teacher, because you know, we're
always learning, We're always we canalways do better. Yeah, the learning
doesn't stop it at the twelfth gradeor something now, or even out of
(26:41):
college, or even after your master'sor even after a PhD. Like you
know, just staying curious and continuingto learn. It's such a powerful thing.
So what do you think of astatement that I hope today I stop
learning? Is today that I actuallystop breathing? Oh for sure that will
be true for me, That willbe I mean, I think I will
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learn right up to the very secondI stop breathing. Yeah, I mean
that's the thing is. That's thething is I like, I will I
will be learning as the lights goout, you know, I I yeah,
because to me, that's to me, that's how we connect to our
humanity. Curiosity is deeply connected toour humanity. Like curiosity is how we
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learn. Learning is how we grow, how we expand how we learn,
how we are interconnected with every livingthing around us. We and those living
things around us work as mirrors,reflecting back to us possibilities and understandings of
ourselves, and so on and soforth. I mean, curiosity is deeply
connected to hope. It's connected tojoy. I mean there's studies on the
(27:49):
fact that how connected to curiosity hopeis. Like, you know, it's
it's for me, it is whatmy It's where my humanity is found.
Me being curious about the world aroundme, me wanting to connect with the
people and the lives around me andthe living world around me. Like,
that's where I find my humanity overand over again. So for sure I
(28:11):
will be I will be learning forthe rest of my life. Oh yeah,
it's I'm just thinking to myself.That's that's where it is. That's
where the life actually is. Yeahyeah, no, Wait, what do
you think makes our world beautiful?It's a really good question. No one's
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ever asking that before. When Ilook around and I watch people, When
I when I watch people interact withpeople or the living world around me,
and I and I watch the waythat we learn from each other and the
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way we gain perspective and the waywe fall in love with each other because
of what we learn about one another, and we find out the ways that
we align in the world or connecton the ways we want to show up
in the world. To me,that's tremendously beautiful. There's something so magical
about that, about connecting with oneanother, about finding true relationship with one
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another. Yeah, that's it.I think that's Oh. Oh did we
freeze up? Can you still hearme? Oh? I can't. Okay,
(29:48):
I thought we've we Well, youryour picture froze So I'll edit this
this piece a little bit. Yeah. Oh and fuzzy Nope, nope,
(30:11):
as it went fuzzy. Crap,hang on, I'm gonna log back and
log out and log back in againbecause I went fuzzy on my end.
Oh oh, there you go.Now you're moving slowly hope. Yeah,
(31:19):
you can keep doing that. Hm hm oh yeah, okay, mm
(33:27):
hmm, okay, there we go. Like I think, I think yours
crushed on your end. And thenmy internet like I don't know if my
internet it said my internet's a littleunstable, and I was like, oh
(33:50):
boy, you can't have problems onboth end. Yeah, I think we
had problems on both ends, soso I just don't think did record again?
Yeah, we're going to start torecord over again from here, all
right, recording in progress? Allright? So okay, yeah, next
(34:22):
question and we'll start it now.Okay, how do you want to cause
beauty in our world? How doyou want to want to affect people and
in that positive way? Oh?No, can you hear me now?
(35:02):
I hear you? Oh, andI am certain to think you hear me.
I hear you? Now? Whatis going on? I hear Are
(35:24):
you saying something's going on? Okay? Wait, I could hear you now?
Can you hear me now? Yes, I hear you. All right,
(35:44):
one of our internets are being aband in the butt. Okay,
So how do I want to causebeauty in the world? Yes, I
don't know about most people, butno one ever sat me down and said,
this is how you show up inrelationship with people around you. This
is how you build healthy relationship,This is how you show up consistently.
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No one taught me that. Noone even showed me that. I had
to discover it for myself. Andthen as I discovered it for myself,
I realized that so many people weretrying to discover some aspect of that for
themselves. And there's so much beautyin relationship. There's so much beauty in
our connection to one another and knowinghow to show up in a way that
(36:25):
empowers yourself and empowers the people aroundyou. Because showing up in the world
as curious connects us to hope andjoy, It connects us to understanding the
world around us. But it hasto balance out by respect. That's when
the people around us can begin totrust us, but they can't. There's
a real deepening of a relationship,and real trust shows up when accountability shows
(36:46):
up. And again, I don'tknow about anybody who's listening or anybody else,
but when I know I've done somethingthat might have harmed someone, that
might have taken up too much space, in too much space in the conversation,
right, you know, in someway been harmful to them. Maybe
(37:07):
that wasn't my intention, but Inoticed that it bothered them. Or I
said something and I didn't really meanit the way that it came out,
or whatever it is, right,Or if I did something that actually did
harm someone, I knew it harmedthem right in the minute, in the
moment when I've carried that around andI haven't invested in accountability, I haven't
been willing to be uncomfortable enough andvulnerable enough to take accountability. That stays
(37:30):
with me. I carry it aroundwith me, whether we do consciously or
unconsciously. Then we're being careful abouthow we approach the person, or being
careful about what we say and don'tsay. We're protecting ourselves and at the
same time separating ourselves from that person. It puts it says to lay brick,
you know, the bricks for awall between us and that person in
(37:52):
real relationship with them, and wecan feel it, and so can that
and so bringing for me, empoweringpeople to understand and have the language for
what real relationship is is an extremelypowerful thing and it brings so much beauty
into our lives. So that's howThat's how I want to and that's how
(38:13):
I That's what I hope the impactof my work already is. Wow,
you you truly believe in an amazingworld. Yes, I know that by
us really understanding what relationship is andinvesting in it, we will change the
world. We will change the world. It's just going to take us time
(38:36):
to work through the messiness of actuallyshowing up as the people we need to
and want to. Yeah. Iusually don't ask these questions on this particular
show, but I'm going to askthis aview. Okay, what do you
think of what is going on rightnow in the world in our country?
(39:00):
Why? What? What? Jeez? Because uh, why don't we do
school with the world, Because ofcourse I'm broadcasting you from from Canada and
you're in the United States. Yes, while we're brother brother brother in sister
(39:20):
countries. Yeah. Yeah, Sowhat I see going on in the world
is a lot of harm being causeda lot of people in order to continue
(39:43):
producing and to continue making money,you know, for certain people and organizations
to keep being able to sell theirproducts, because at the end of the
day, it seems to all bedriven by money, by the accumulation of
wealth, whether it's by a governmentor an organization or whatever it is.
(40:10):
I don't see people in positions ofpower being truly invested in accountability. I
don't see them even caring to knowor sit with or embody the impact of
their actions. I see tremendous,horrifying examples of dehumanization harm. I see
(40:38):
things that cause me a tremendous amountof pain to see, let alone knowing
or trying to fathom the amount ofpain that the people who are experiencing them
are going through. And I knowthat much of it is happening with my
tax dollars, with my support throughcorporations because of the products I'm buying from
(41:02):
different corporations, and I do myvery best to consume as ethically as possible.
But there doesn't seem to be anywayto truly exist in our world in
a thoroughly ethical way. To knowthat none of your money is going to
harm someone, to know that everybodyin the company is making ethical wages.
(41:25):
There's just so there's just so fewexamples of that, And that's the horrifying
part. It's really it's really hardto exist in this world right now and
be connected to your humanity. Iunderstand why people seek to disconnect and numb
(41:46):
themselves because the reality of our worldis one that feels so daunting, and
there's so much pain in it forus and so many other people people are
in pain in this world that arenot And so when I get to that
(42:06):
place where I'm like, this justfeels so overwhelming, How in the world
do we make change, How inthe world do we stop this pain?
How in the world do we makea world in which people are honored simply
because they exist and we don't decidethat we get an opinion, and how
they show up in the world aslong as they're not harming other people?
(42:27):
How do we do that? Andthat's why I come back to my work,
is that the more we understand whatreal relationship is and what it requires
of us, the most revolutionary thingwe can do is be invested in true
relationship with ourselves and the people aroundus. Build community because community and hierarchy
and systems of oppression are in directopposition. But in order to form true,
(42:51):
powerful community, we have to understandwhat relationship is. First. You
can't skip the steps. You can'tjust think, okay, here, I'm
here in community, No, becauseyou don't even know how to be in
You've got to do the work.You've got to be invested in curiosity,
respect, and accountability. People askme, you know, as we form
community, what happens when you knowpeople come into that community in order to
(43:15):
disrupt, in order to be agitators. They're not always so obvious and I'm
like, but I think they arewhen you are deeply and truly invested in
curiosity, respect and accountability, andyou engage with people in the world that
way and you not require but butthat's your boundary that people to engage with
(43:35):
you have to engage from that place. It's going to become really obvious who
isn't engaged in that way where they'rethey're manipulating information rather than honoring how the
intentions of you know what I mean, Like, it starts to become really
obvious, and then we've got totrust our intuition, our God. Right.
(43:58):
So, I I'm horrified by thethings I see. I'm horrified by
the pain, horrified by knowing thatchild slave labor exists all over the world,
including our own country and including inAmerica. You know, I'm horrified
by it all. And I knowthat I can only do what I can
do. I can't change the world, but I could change the world if
(44:21):
I could change myself. And sothat's what I'm committed to. Right.
Wow, Wow, that is extremelypowerful what you just said. Okay,
so we're going to leave it atthat, and I'm going to ask you
to tell everybody the best way isto get a hold of you and work
(44:42):
with you, because I think thatthat working with people like you is going
to bring that change about, soI hope. So yeah, the best
way to engage with me is througheither through my website or you can email
me blame me who responds It's Shanas h A n A at consonate dot
(45:06):
world c O N C I Nn A t E dot World. I'm
sure my website will also be taggedin the show notes so that you can
find my contact information through the website. Those are the best ways to engage
with me. Also, you cansubscribe to my email lists on my website
that goes out once a week.And the what I love about that is
that you can also reply directly tothat and ends up writing my inbox.
(45:32):
So yeah, definitely reach out.Those are those are the best and easiest
ways. Thank you for joining us. It has been wonderful having you and
I hope to have you back again. We're in your near future. Yeah,
absolutely just love to come back.Thanks for having me, all right,
all right, thank you for everybodyfor listening today. Please find that
subscribe button wherever it is and ifyou happen to hit our support page.
(45:55):
Please leave us some sort of supportso that we can can continue bringing people
like Shauna who do wonderful work inour world to you so that we can
learn from wonderful people doing wonderful things. Thanks everybody, help us to about
(46:27):
So. I don't know Jowah fromaction. What this says to save me?
(47:07):
Cho shows we can't tres serve.Wait, so she got the star
(48:07):
ship in Stall and now streams Shestarted to speak, She was not speak.
(49:43):
The show has been produced by DepictionsMedia. Please contact us at depictions
dot media for more information
Thank you for listening to de picturesMedia radio. You rat you readything to
(00:31):
me? Oh well, jus wellnot a bad stop along at need sol
(01:15):
smash stop along? Is it dead? These imensity? What if cutting off
(01:38):
our curiosity ensures our demise both individuallyand collectively? And our next guest literally
means, what if our curiosity couldheal the world? If investing in our
curiosity results in on and the cultivationof life represented in healthy ecosystems. Maybe
(02:09):
the natural result of cutting off curiosityis homogeny, which is slowly cutting off
the possibility of life. So ournext guest as Shauna Francis. She is
a keynote speaker and she also facilitatesworkshops and is a scholar of an ethical
(02:36):
Leadership and Living. She is thefounder and CEO of Consostinate LLC. Shauna
has been interviewed by more than onehundred other podcasters in the world trying to
spread her message about exactly what we'vejust talked about. She wants to cultivate
(03:04):
our human power into things that willbring us back to some oneness with nature,
ecosystems, and also help promote maybeeven diversity. So why don't we
welcome Shanna to the to the show, and let's hear a little bit about
(03:25):
her story and what it is thatshe wants to do for people. We
can one Seana, welcome to theshow, and you have a fantastic story.
(04:11):
And just wait, I also remembersomething else. You have a neual
diversity, don't you. Yeah,I'm nerd divergent. Yeah I have ADHD.
Yeah. Hey, I love Ilove having nerdivergent people on the show.
It's it makes it that much morefun, right because hey, it's
like he as a lot of mylisteners know, I'm extremely dyslexic, so
(04:35):
you are also nerd evergente. Itjust means our brains work, right.
So, yeah, tell us alittle bit about how you got started with
the keynote speaking and how you cameabout your message and all. Yeah.
Absolutely, So, first, thanksfor having me. I appreciate being on
(04:58):
the show. So. I wasborn into an abusive household and raised inside
of an evangelical Christian cult, andin those environments you experience extremely unethical,
very coercive, and controlling leadership ifwe won't even call it leadership, in
which your humanity is not honored,you are not respected, and the people
(05:20):
in positions of power do not haveto take accountability, but you always do.
And in those environments, you know, I realized that I wasn't safe.
I realized I couldn't show up asmy full self. I realized I
needed to protect myself constantly. Andwhen when you're in a constant state of
(05:42):
protection, it's really hard to growinto your creativity, into the things that
empower you into and discover your purpose, discover what you want your purpose to
be, Discover how you want tochange the world or be a part of
the world, and show up inthe world. World it's very stifling,
right, There's no humanity in it. And so when I left those environments
(06:09):
at twenty six, I started toask myself who I wanted to be,
and how I wanted to show upin the world, and what I wanted
to believe what actually resonated with mewhen I actually believed allow myself to sit
with that. I also, atthe same time begin to recognize there was
reflections of the environments I had grownup in. In the environment, like
in our society at large, right, there was reflections of that. There
(06:30):
was instances that I could see allaround me, and I was like,
oh, okay, right, Andso that began me leaving and me you
know, beginning the process of discoveringwho I am. Also had me asking
a lot of important questions of like, how do I want to show up
in the world, how do Iwant to empower the people around me?
(06:54):
What is healthy relationship? Because noneof those things had been modeled for me.
Right. Part of child is thatyou have healthy humans around you providing
a model for what's possible or healthyrealities. I didn't have that, and
so I had to create that understanding. And I looked for models in books
(07:14):
and in you know, it lookedfor incredible organizations and incredible people where I
could understand leadership from a healthy andethics standpoint. And that started. Now
what's become more than a decade worthof learning and study on what is it
to be an ethical human and whatis it to be an ethical leader?
And ultimately about three years ago,I finally gave myself permission to fully step
(07:39):
into that. So I had beenworking with entrepreneurs and business owners, longtime
business owners all the way, youknow, from my early thirties into my
mid thirties, and in kind ofa coaching capacity both you know, individual
and group coaching. Lots of peopleare coming to me for advice and so
on and so forth, and Iand I recognized it was valuable, but
(08:03):
I didn't I didn't know how tomonetize it. I didn't know how to
step into that fully. And youknow, it took me some time,
and I sought out some mentors,and then I was like, Okay,
this is you know, this iswhere I think I need to be spending
my time. This is really importantwork. Because what I didn't realize as
I was doing all of this research, all of this learning along the way,
(08:26):
you know, and distilling it throughmy particular understanding of the world and
having grown up in such severe courseof environments. Right, so my interpretation
of these things was very specific,is that other people didn't know these things
already. I thought I was learningthings that other people, in some way,
shape or form already knew, andmaybe I understood them a little bit
(08:46):
bit differently. But I didn't understandthat a lot of people were looking for
the language that I had also beenlooking for, that a lot of people
were also trying to discover how toshow up this way, you know,
how to empower their leadership. Theycould empower their people so that they could
drive innovation and profitability. Right,they just didn't have the models. And
so you know, that kind ofbroke open three years ago where I stepped
(09:11):
into that FULLI and I was like, okay, this is what we're doing.
What we're going to be doing publicspeaking, consulting, and workshop facilitation.
And I was developing my workshops,started dispilding this information and giving it
finite language. I mean, that'sthe thing. You can know a lot,
but until you hone that language andyou know how to share it with
people around you, it's powerful foryou, but it's difficult to relay it
(09:37):
to other people. And so Ihad to spend a lot of time learning
how to hone the language and shareit with people in ways that were really
impactful. Right, it makes sense. Hang on a second. You know,
we all we're all seeking for thatpurpose. But when if you grow
(10:03):
up an environment that suppresses your growthin only or try I say, it
suppresses your self power and only empowerssomeone else. Yeah, then you have
an an interesting obstacle to get around, shall we say? I don't only
you can answer how difficult that obstaclewas? Sure, Yeah, I mean
(10:30):
The interesting thing that I recently satdown and was really thinking about this because
I wrote an article that was specificallyasking about confidence and how I gained confidence,
you know, became who I amtoday, and I was like,
oh, that's a really good question. I definitely want to answer that,
right, And it made me sitdown and really think about it. And
(10:50):
for a long time, I was, you know, growing up in the
environments that I did, I wasforced and required to look for approval outside
of myself. I was I wasalways having to seek the approval of God,
of men who would put themselves inpositions of power over me. I
was always having to seek this approvalso I would be seen deemed good and
(11:13):
worthy. Right, can you hearthat background noise? I'm so sorry.
Okay. So, in finding youknow, in grounding myself in who I
wanted to be and how I wantedto show up in the world, I
realized that I that I never actuallyneeded anyone else's approval, right, that
(11:35):
I just needed to sit with myown approval. I need to decide how
I wanted to show up in theworld, and that no one had authority
over me. I didn't give themright, not as especially not as an
adult, right as a child.You don't really necessarily have a choice.
But people only have authority over youthat you give them. And so when
I took back authority over my ownlife, I gained confidence because confidence comes
(11:58):
from within, you know. It'seager that constantly seeks exterior approval and constantly
needs to be reassured. It's confidencethat continues to blossom and grow from within
ourselves. You can only find thatwhen you can sit with and be present
with who you are and how youwant to show up in the world,
and you're no longer seeking external validation. The only mean we don't meet each
(12:20):
other, because we absolutely do,and we need to live in community with
one another. But living in communitywith one another is not constant approval seeking.
Those are not the same thing,right. It's like the difference between
say, a codependent situation versus aindependent but I'm leaning on you sort of
(12:45):
situation. Yeah, I mean youcan say, you know, because even
just a group of two or threepeople can be community, right, it's
the difference between codependency and community.Community is based on healthy relationship, and
in my work I posit that allhealthy ethical relationship requires curiosity, respect,
and accountability to be constantly fostered andconsistently invested in in ourselves and in our
(13:09):
relationships. And so when you dothat, then you're fostering healthy community as
opposed to codependence. Codependence lacks accountability, it lacks respect, it lacks boundaries.
You know, I'm not a mentalhealth professional, but grew up in
a codependent relationship with my mother,So you know, I absolutely recognize,
(13:31):
you know, for myself what showedup there. Well in that culture situation,
of course, I guess your motherwas code dependent, and then whoever
the leadership was was trying to pushcodependence upon you, yeah, and put
you in a situation where you don'tnecessarily you have a choice, obviously,
(13:52):
but you don't really, especially asa child, because you have no healthy
models. You don't know how tonot be codependent. You don't know how
to show up as a healthy person. You don't know how to hold boundaries
from adults who literally hold your lifein their hands. So you develop codependency
as a means of survival. Andyou know, codependency hurts both people or
(14:13):
all of the people who were involved, because it's unhealthy. It's unhealthy,
and it's a sort of crabs ina barrel situation. Right, in order
for you to survive, you justkind of both have to stay stuck,
right, So you must have hadat some point you had to have some
(14:33):
light bulb moment? What did thatlook like? Sure I had lots of
them. I had lots of them, but they're kind of gas lit out
of you. Right, you startedto like second guess yourself. It's very
it's hard to explain unless you've grownup in it. It's really hard to
explain. But yeah, there waslots of light bulb moments in which I
(14:56):
tried to assert that I had rightto have my thoughts and feelings. I
had a right to be, youknow, to have the questions, to
bring forth the questions they did.I had a right to point out the
holes in the information being relayed tome that I needed to be submissive to
and obedient too, and and soI would, I would assert myself.
(15:20):
But in those moments, there wasso you know, there was so much
push back, in so much trauma. Pushback would be the nicest way to
say it. There was so muchpain that was incurred on my part to
put me back in my place rightby the people in authority over me that
(15:43):
I you know, you just stuffit down. You stop sharing with the
world, You stop telling the worldyou know what you wish could be or
what you even observed, because yourecognize that it's not safe, right.
You recognize that you are seeing somethingthat other people also see, but they're
(16:04):
actively ignoring the harm it's causing them, actively perpetrating harm on purpose. They
know they're harming me, and soyou bringing it to their attention. That's
like looking a narcissist in the faceand telling them they're a narcissist. You
should never do that, because theyfind a way to turn it back on
you and make you the bad guy. Right. At some point, you
(16:27):
realize I'm being harmed by using myvoice. It's being turned on me,
it's being manipulated, and I knowthat's not my voice, and I know
that's not what I meant, butthat's what that's what you're keeping told you
meant, right, And so youat some point just like recede into yourself.
So there was these light bulb momentsall along the way, probably starting
(16:49):
when I was ten or eleven twelveas the oldest, but eventually right,
eventually I was old enough and Iwas. My father left and then I
was able to leave. So Ileft at twenty six. My father like
literally just abandoned the family and ransackedour house with other people from the church.
By the way, strange men ransackedour house with him. And so,
(17:14):
you know, I left at twentysix and then was able to you
know, actually show up in theworld or figure out try to figure out
how to show up in the worldas myself. So who is Shanna?
So I'm a deeply curious person.I'm someone who wants to spend the rest
(17:37):
of my life questioning what I knowand what I believe, expanding my perspectives,
connecting with the world and the peoplearound me. I'm somebody who wants
to continue to share what I've learnedwith people who want to understand it.
You know, I'm somebody who insistson using my voice to speak truth to
(18:02):
power. I'm someone who insists thatthe people who are part of my life
be deeply invested in curiosity, respect, and accountability. It's a really good
way of telling whether or not you'resafe with someone, specifically long term.
Right then you really find out ifyou're safe with someone when there's a moment
(18:22):
that they need to take accountability forand if they do so without prompting,
and they do so. And bythe way, accountability is not an apology,
and it's not punishment. It isyeah, it's taking responsibility for the
impact of our actions on the peopleand the lives that have been impacted,
and then learning more and doing better. So accountability is deeply tied to curiosity.
(18:45):
So it's in those moments that youdiscover that, right, So that's
who I am. I'm somebody whowill spend the rest of my life learning
and know that I still won't knowa fraction of what there is to know
in the world, and sharing thelearning with people around me, as as
they asked me to, really,what are some of the biggest things that
you have learned? I think allof our journeys are really very personal journeys,
(19:14):
right like your journey in owning abusiness, your journey in running a
business, your journey in whatever itis in your public life is a direct
reflection of your journey in your personallife. So one of the biggest things
I learned was that I could trustmyself and that my making a mistake or
making a bad decision was not areflection that I couldn't trust myself. It
(19:40):
just meant I had more learning todo because failure, our mistakes are not
yes they are, they're harmful,but they become excessively more harmful and we
become somebody who is more committed toto protecting ourselves, whether showing up in
(20:00):
a real relationship with the people aroundus when we deflect our responsibility, you
know, and accountability. So yeah, actually that's a pretty it's a pretty
large shrink of learning. And uhyeah, yeah, yeah, I mean
(20:23):
I think I think there's some somepeople, some life coaches out there that
they take that and they and theyturn it into a t year program.
Yeah. I mean, you know, we all learn, we all learn
at our own pace, and Ithink at which somebody is able to really
(20:44):
connect with somebody with something. It'salso like in finding a language that connects
with the client. You know,coaching is an aspect of my work.
It's not the main focus of mywork. What is an aspect of my
work, But ultimately the process ofcoaching is like finding the lifelanguage that specifically
connects to the person or persons you'retalking to. And sometimes that takes a
(21:06):
while, you know, and italso then takes that person time to distill
that and figure out how to applyit to their own life and practice applying
it to their own life consistently.So you know, it could take some
It's definitely not going to take youtwo minutes, definitely not going to take
you two days to make that change. But you know, it could take
you two months, six months,two years. It could take the rest
(21:27):
of your life just to pend youknow. Well, that's the interesting part
about life and learning is we haveour lifetime to live and learn, right,
So there's no rush, Right,there's no rush. You know.
It's not about perfection, but itis about learning more and doing better consistently.
(21:49):
Right, It's about consistent action,consistently leaning into our humanity. Yeah,
well, I was gonna say,also, is it doesn't take two
minutes to take the first step.It's only takes a couple of milliseconds to
take the first step towards it.Yeah. Yeah, but that's a vulnerability,
(22:10):
and that's something that is that hasbeen weaponized against some people. And
so for some people, they needto go to therapy before they can even
begin that first step because they haveto learn how to trust themselves. And
learn how to surround themselves with peoplethey can also trust so they can take
that step. You know, yes, I understand that. But in that
(22:32):
and of itself, if we ifwe see on the philosophical route, that
of itself is a step. Oh, it absolutely is to important to right.
Yeah, no, that is astep that becomes the first step is
the getting recognized, the help,the support, and we all need help
and support, we all need tofunction of community. But yes, that
(22:55):
is absolutely because you could you couldhave not taken that step, and you
could have stayed in whatever that religiouscult. I know, sometimes you call
it cult, sometimes you call thechurch. Yes, uh, but just
for my own definition, the churchto me is a community, not an
(23:18):
entrapment. Yeah. I think communityis something that's healthy where all people are
honored and empowered and respected. Itbecomes a cult when you remove it starts
to slip into cultiness, when youstop investing in healthy and ethical relationship,
when respect is only reserved for thoseimpositions of power, and where accountability is
(23:40):
only reserved for those people who haveno power. Yeah right, yeah,
yeah, I mean there's there's somuch for us to learn out there,
and you seem like a really goodteacher. I help, so I work
(24:03):
on it all the time. Imean sometimes I'm like, because my nervous,
spicy brain gets ahead of itself sometimes, So I've had to spend so
much time just practicing honing the languagein a way that keeps my brain engaged
and keeps my brain on track.If my brain loves so like pull it
(24:23):
threads and bring them together. Andthen and then sometimes the main message gets
lost and I'm like, hold on, we deviated too many times. Let's
get back on track, right.So you know, I spend a lot
of time rehearsing my workshops and mykeynotes. My keynotes are all written out
because my nerves, spicy brain.If I just tried to like go off
the cuff, like some speakers havelike a like a whole bunch of stories
(24:47):
if they've memorized these little like versionsof stories that are you know, anywhere
thirty seconds to a couple of minuteslong, right, and they'll put them
together. I can't do that.My speeches are all written out. They're
all They're all something that I endup memorizing or having to use a teleprompter
to go through because otherwise I would, you know, an hour worth of
me talking and no one asking meany questions and helping getting me back on
(25:08):
track. I wouldn't Probably, itwouldn't be a disaster, but but after
a while I'd be exhausted just tryingto keep myself on tray. I totally
totally understand that even Okay, okay, let's pull the curtain back behind it,
behind the show. I have notesout for you on the screen somewhere
(25:30):
right. Good. I mean,you got it. I mean that's the
thing sometimes also like helps you bepresent, you know what I mean,
I'm not worried about what you needto say, and you have those it
helps you to be present and cantruly connect with the people. Like one
of my favorite things about delivering mykino or being giving a workshop or anything
(25:51):
like that is that to me,it's it's it's like me and every single
individual in that room. I'm talkingto every single person, just me and
them, right, it becomes thisreally personal thing. I am not the
person who's afraid to look people inthe eyes. I'm the person who's actively
looking for the people who are lookingat me back in the eyes. Right.
So I love connecting with the audience. I love those moments of like,
(26:15):
is this resonating right? So thatI can learn? If I'm teaching
people well, because that's where Ifind out, I'm like, are they
not in along? Did they seemto be processing right? So that I
can I can hone my skills asa teacher, because you know, we're
always learning, We're always we canalways do better. Yeah, the learning
doesn't stop it at the twelfth gradeor something now, or even out of
(26:41):
college, or even after your master'sor even after a PhD. Like you
know, just staying curious and continuingto learn. It's such a powerful thing.
So what do you think of astatement that I hope today I stop
learning? Is today that I actuallystop breathing? Oh for sure that will
be true for me, That willbe I mean, I think I will
(27:04):
learn right up to the very secondI stop breathing. Yeah, I mean
that's the thing is. That's thething is I like, I will I
will be learning as the lights goout, you know, I I yeah,
because to me, that's to me, that's how we connect to our
humanity. Curiosity is deeply connected toour humanity. Like curiosity is how we
(27:26):
learn. Learning is how we grow, how we expand how we learn,
how we are interconnected with every livingthing around us. We and those living
things around us work as mirrors,reflecting back to us possibilities and understandings of
ourselves, and so on and soforth. I mean, curiosity is deeply
connected to hope. It's connected tojoy. I mean there's studies on the
(27:49):
fact that how connected to curiosity hopeis. Like, you know, it's
it's for me, it is whatmy It's where my humanity is found.
Me being curious about the world aroundme, me wanting to connect with the
people and the lives around me andthe living world around me. Like,
that's where I find my humanity overand over again. So for sure I
(28:11):
will be I will be learning forthe rest of my life. Oh yeah,
it's I'm just thinking to myself.That's that's where it is. That's
where the life actually is. Yeahyeah, no, Wait, what do
you think makes our world beautiful?It's a really good question. No one's
(28:37):
ever asking that before. When Ilook around and I watch people, When
I when I watch people interact withpeople or the living world around me,
and I and I watch the waythat we learn from each other and the
(29:00):
way we gain perspective and the waywe fall in love with each other because
of what we learn about one another, and we find out the ways that
we align in the world or connecton the ways we want to show up
in the world. To me,that's tremendously beautiful. There's something so magical
about that, about connecting with oneanother, about finding true relationship with one
(29:26):
another. Yeah, that's it.I think that's Oh. Oh did we
freeze up? Can you still hearme? Oh? I can't. Okay,
(29:48):
I thought we've we Well, youryour picture froze So I'll edit this
this piece a little bit. Yeah. Oh and fuzzy Nope, nope,
(30:11):
as it went fuzzy. Crap,hang on, I'm gonna log back and
log out and log back in againbecause I went fuzzy on my end.
Oh oh, there you go.Now you're moving slowly hope. Yeah,
(31:19):
you can keep doing that. Hm hm oh yeah, okay, mm
(33:27):
hmm, okay, there we go. Like I think, I think yours
crushed on your end. And thenmy internet like I don't know if my
internet it said my internet's a littleunstable, and I was like, oh
(33:50):
boy, you can't have problems onboth end. Yeah, I think we
had problems on both ends, soso I just don't think did record again?
Yeah, we're going to start torecord over again from here, all
right, recording in progress? Allright? So okay, yeah, next
(34:22):
question and we'll start it now.Okay, how do you want to cause
beauty in our world? How doyou want to want to affect people and
in that positive way? Oh?No, can you hear me now?
(35:02):
I hear you? Oh, andI am certain to think you hear me.
I hear you? Now? Whatis going on? I hear Are
(35:24):
you saying something's going on? Okay? Wait, I could hear you now?
Can you hear me now? Yes, I hear you. All right,
(35:44):
one of our internets are being aband in the butt. Okay,
So how do I want to causebeauty in the world? Yes, I
don't know about most people, butno one ever sat me down and said,
this is how you show up inrelationship with people around you. This
is how you build healthy relationship,This is how you show up consistently.
(36:05):
No one taught me that. Noone even showed me that. I had
to discover it for myself. Andthen as I discovered it for myself,
I realized that so many people weretrying to discover some aspect of that for
themselves. And there's so much beautyin relationship. There's so much beauty in
our connection to one another and knowinghow to show up in a way that
(36:25):
empowers yourself and empowers the people aroundyou. Because showing up in the world
as curious connects us to hope andjoy, It connects us to understanding the
world around us. But it hasto balance out by respect. That's when
the people around us can begin totrust us, but they can't. There's
a real deepening of a relationship,and real trust shows up when accountability shows
(36:46):
up. And again, I don'tknow about anybody who's listening or anybody else,
but when I know I've done somethingthat might have harmed someone, that
might have taken up too much space, in too much space in the conversation,
right, you know, in someway been harmful to them. Maybe
(37:07):
that wasn't my intention, but Inoticed that it bothered them. Or I
said something and I didn't really meanit the way that it came out,
or whatever it is, right,Or if I did something that actually did
harm someone, I knew it harmedthem right in the minute, in the
moment when I've carried that around andI haven't invested in accountability, I haven't
been willing to be uncomfortable enough andvulnerable enough to take accountability. That stays
(37:30):
with me. I carry it aroundwith me, whether we do consciously or
unconsciously. Then we're being careful abouthow we approach the person, or being
careful about what we say and don'tsay. We're protecting ourselves and at the
same time separating ourselves from that person. It puts it says to lay brick,
you know, the bricks for awall between us and that person in
(37:52):
real relationship with them, and wecan feel it, and so can that
and so bringing for me, empoweringpeople to understand and have the language for
what real relationship is is an extremelypowerful thing and it brings so much beauty
into our lives. So that's howThat's how I want to and that's how
(38:13):
I That's what I hope the impactof my work already is. Wow,
you you truly believe in an amazingworld. Yes, I know that by
us really understanding what relationship is andinvesting in it, we will change the
world. We will change the world. It's just going to take us time
(38:36):
to work through the messiness of actuallyshowing up as the people we need to
and want to. Yeah. Iusually don't ask these questions on this particular
show, but I'm going to askthis aview. Okay, what do you
think of what is going on rightnow in the world in our country?
(39:00):
Why? What? What? Jeez? Because uh, why don't we do
school with the world, Because ofcourse I'm broadcasting you from from Canada and
you're in the United States. Yes, while we're brother brother brother in sister
(39:20):
countries. Yeah. Yeah, Sowhat I see going on in the world
is a lot of harm being causeda lot of people in order to continue
(39:43):
producing and to continue making money,you know, for certain people and organizations
to keep being able to sell theirproducts, because at the end of the
day, it seems to all bedriven by money, by the accumulation of
wealth, whether it's by a governmentor an organization or whatever it is.
(40:10):
I don't see people in positions ofpower being truly invested in accountability. I
don't see them even caring to knowor sit with or embody the impact of
their actions. I see tremendous,horrifying examples of dehumanization harm. I see
(40:38):
things that cause me a tremendous amountof pain to see, let alone knowing
or trying to fathom the amount ofpain that the people who are experiencing them
are going through. And I knowthat much of it is happening with my
tax dollars, with my support throughcorporations because of the products I'm buying from
(41:02):
different corporations, and I do myvery best to consume as ethically as possible.
But there doesn't seem to be anywayto truly exist in our world in
a thoroughly ethical way. To knowthat none of your money is going to
harm someone, to know that everybodyin the company is making ethical wages.
(41:25):
There's just so there's just so fewexamples of that, And that's the horrifying
part. It's really it's really hardto exist in this world right now and
be connected to your humanity. Iunderstand why people seek to disconnect and numb
(41:46):
themselves because the reality of our worldis one that feels so daunting, and
there's so much pain in it forus and so many other people people are
in pain in this world that arenot And so when I get to that
(42:06):
place where I'm like, this justfeels so overwhelming, How in the world
do we make change, How inthe world do we stop this pain?
How in the world do we makea world in which people are honored simply
because they exist and we don't decidethat we get an opinion, and how
they show up in the world aslong as they're not harming other people?
(42:27):
How do we do that? Andthat's why I come back to my work,
is that the more we understand whatreal relationship is and what it requires
of us, the most revolutionary thingwe can do is be invested in true
relationship with ourselves and the people aroundus. Build community because community and hierarchy
and systems of oppression are in directopposition. But in order to form true,
(42:51):
powerful community, we have to understandwhat relationship is. First. You
can't skip the steps. You can'tjust think, okay, here, I'm
here in community, No, becauseyou don't even know how to be in
You've got to do the work.You've got to be invested in curiosity,
respect, and accountability. People askme, you know, as we form
community, what happens when you knowpeople come into that community in order to
(43:15):
disrupt, in order to be agitators. They're not always so obvious and I'm
like, but I think they arewhen you are deeply and truly invested in
curiosity, respect and accountability, andyou engage with people in the world that
way and you not require but butthat's your boundary that people to engage with
(43:35):
you have to engage from that place. It's going to become really obvious who
isn't engaged in that way where they'rethey're manipulating information rather than honoring how the
intentions of you know what I mean, Like, it starts to become really
obvious, and then we've got totrust our intuition, our God. Right.
(43:58):
So, I I'm horrified by thethings I see. I'm horrified by
the pain, horrified by knowing thatchild slave labor exists all over the world,
including our own country and including inAmerica. You know, I'm horrified
by it all. And I knowthat I can only do what I can
do. I can't change the world, but I could change the world if
(44:21):
I could change myself. And sothat's what I'm committed to. Right.
Wow, Wow, that is extremelypowerful what you just said. Okay,
so we're going to leave it atthat, and I'm going to ask you
to tell everybody the best way isto get a hold of you and work
(44:42):
with you, because I think thatthat working with people like you is going
to bring that change about, soI hope. So yeah, the best
way to engage with me is througheither through my website or you can email
me blame me who responds It's Shanas h A n A at consonate dot
(45:06):
world c O N C I Nn A t E dot World. I'm
sure my website will also be taggedin the show notes so that you can
find my contact information through the website. Those are the best ways to engage
with me. Also, you cansubscribe to my email lists on my website
that goes out once a week.And the what I love about that is
that you can also reply directly tothat and ends up writing my inbox.
(45:32):
So yeah, definitely reach out.Those are those are the best and easiest
ways. Thank you for joining us. It has been wonderful having you and
I hope to have you back again. We're in your near future. Yeah,
absolutely just love to come back.Thanks for having me, all right,
all right, thank you for everybodyfor listening today. Please find that
subscribe button wherever it is and ifyou happen to hit our support page.
(45:55):
Please leave us some sort of supportso that we can can continue bringing people
like Shauna who do wonderful work inour world to you so that we can
learn from wonderful people doing wonderful things. Thanks everybody, help us to about
(46:27):
So. I don't know Jowah fromaction. What this says to save me?
(47:07):
Cho shows we can't tres serve.Wait, so she got the star
(48:07):
ship in Stall and now streams Shestarted to speak, She was not speak.
(49:43):
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