September 30, 2024 • 52 mins
Tom Fox is passionate about podcasting and compliance. He is the Leading Voice in Compliance, having founded the only podcast network in compliance, the award-winning Compliance Podcast Network. Tom is also a co-founder of the award-winning Texas Hill Country Podcast Network, which focuses on a rural area of Texas. Tom has won 33 awards for podcast hosting and producing podcasts. He is also an award-winning blogger, having posted the FCPA Compliance and Ethics Report daily since 2010.
Tom is also a best-selling author, having written 30 books in the areas of compliance, business ethics and leadership. He is the author of the seminal compliance work, The Compliance Handbook, now in its 4th edition. He is author of two other international best-sellers on compliance; Lessons Learned on Compliance and Ethics and Best Practices Under the FCPA and Bribery Act. He is most proud of his 3 best-selling children’s books on compliance Being a Compliance Officer is Awesome, Speaking Up is Awesome and Compliance Saves the Galaxy. All 3 were published by Dinosaur House and are available at Amazon.com.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/inspiring-stories--2917948/support.
Tom is also a best-selling author, having written 30 books in the areas of compliance, business ethics and leadership. He is the author of the seminal compliance work, The Compliance Handbook, now in its 4th edition. He is author of two other international best-sellers on compliance; Lessons Learned on Compliance and Ethics and Best Practices Under the FCPA and Bribery Act. He is most proud of his 3 best-selling children’s books on compliance Being a Compliance Officer is Awesome, Speaking Up is Awesome and Compliance Saves the Galaxy. All 3 were published by Dinosaur House and are available at Amazon.com.
Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/inspiring-stories--2917948/support.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Thank you for listening to the Pictures Media Radio. Welcome back, everybody.
(01:40):
Our next guest is also a podcaster. An award winning podcaster,
Tom Fox is the Voice of Compliance, having the only
podcast network in Compliance, the award winning Compliance to Podcast Network.
It is currently has sixty podcasts. Tom has won multiple
(02:04):
awards for podcast hosting and producing and was honored with
a Webby for his series Looking Back on nine to eleven.
He is an executive leader and at the c Suite Network,
(02:25):
the world's most trusted network of c suite leaders, and
he is also a co founder of the Texas Hill
County Podcast Network. So hey, it's be quite the honored
(02:47):
to introduce him to the show and to interview him.
It should be fun. So let's ask some Tom some
questions about podcasting and what the Voice of Compliance really
means you want, So, welcome to the show. Tom. It's
(03:40):
glad to meet. Good to meet an award winning podcaster.
And you said it's said in in in the intro
that you won a Webby, So.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Uh well, I was actually one of the five finalists
for a Webby's, so you know when they say and
the nominees are, I was one of the nominees, but
I didn't actually win it. Oh so close to the winter,
close to the winner, but not there yet.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, I remember that one in a film festival that
the nominees are and oh we didn't get this one.
But that's okay. But you didn't start out podcasting. You
started out in another industry altogether, so right.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
So yeah, I am a lawyer by professional background, and
I started a new law practice in twenty ten. I
was laid up from a bad accident and so the
only time I left my house was to go physical therapy,
and the only thing I had on my hands was time.
At that point in my life, I knew nothing about
(04:51):
social media, Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, you name it. So I
started exploring social media, and as a part of that
social media marketing outreach, I started blogging. Well, a couple
of years later, somebody emailed me and said, hey, let's
start a podcast. So I started podcasting in twenty twelve,
and it was just a natural outgrowth from blogging.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that. So it says that
you are the also the only compliance network, compliance podcast network,
and what does compliance really mean?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Sure? So that's correct, I'm the only I have the
only podcast network in legal and regulatory compliance. I started
that in twenty seventeen. But compliance means the program that
you have inside your corporation to comply with laws, whether
that's a law about export control, ani'm money laundering, trade sanctions,
(05:52):
workplace violence, anti discrimination, anti harassment, whatever that laws you
have to follow might be. And so I have been
practicing law in that field, or started in seven or
maybe a little bit earlier. And so I mentioned I
started podcasting in twenty twelve, and so it was about compliance,
(06:16):
and I got the bright idea, you know, I'll start
a network where we can shake and bake and slice
and dice all forms of compliance because they're multiple forms.
So that's what I did.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Okay, Well, you know, because many people here listening their entrepreneurs,
they have numbered or named corporations. So why don't we
(06:49):
dive into into that compliance just a little bit to understand,
you know, the different different ways we need to keep
our businesses in compliance keep the government off.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Right. So, if you're a US public company, meaning you're
you have stock listed on a stock exchange, that being
a public company means you have to have a compliance
program that's written into a US law. Uh, but even
if you're a private company, if you want to do
business basically with anyone in the United States, you have
(07:23):
to have a compliance program. And so yes, it's a
legal and regulatory compliance requirement, but businesses see the value
of doing business with other companies that do business ethically
and in compliance. So it's now really business driven. But
it's all kind of goes back to the same place
(07:44):
do you have do you do business ethically? And do
you do business and compliance? And what I wanted to
do with my network, as you said, Michael, it was
to talk about not only the different types of compliance,
but I love telling stories, and so I started thinking,
what about Shakespeare compliance, what about Star Trek in compliance?
(08:05):
What about Sherlock Holmes and compliance? What about Star Wars
in compliance? What about the MCU in compliance? What about
sports and compliance? What about women in compliance? And so
I look at compliance from all of those different angles
and many many more, which gives the listener the ability
to listen to the one that interests them. June one
(08:28):
I started every year. On June one, I started a
series called Trekking through Compliance, which is I do all
seventy nine episodes of the original series of Star Trek
so Star Trekrek Tos started in twenty seventeen. My numbers
in twenty twenty three were twice what they were in
twenty seventeen. And that's just repeating the same series. So
(08:51):
it's just crazy. You know, people can't get enough of this.
And this year I completely redid it, so it's a
whole new series, but it's still episode of the original series.
Or as my wife said, this is just an excuse
for you to rewatch this, isn't it? So yeah you bet?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Oh yeah, why not rewatch it? Hey, I have a
DVD myself, right it would of thestas presents I ever
got exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
So I just like telling stories. And if if you're
an entrepreneur out there and you want to own your space,
you can do that with a network. But the key
is to be as niche as possible. So we had
the chance to visit before we started recording this podcast,
(09:38):
and you were like, I don't get it. I mean,
compliance who would listen to that. I'm like, well, there's
a small, detigate, dedicated group of people who that's that's
important to them. So if you can find a very small, passionate,
dedicated group and put out things that they want. You're
going to be very successful. The other thing you can
(09:58):
do in this was I can't really say I thought
of it. I can say I did it. And it's
the following. If you want to own your space, and
I mean own it, start a daily news show. So
I have the Daily Compliance News. It's three minutes of
four stories and people love it. It's, you know, by far,
(10:22):
my most popular podcast. And I you know, a guy
asked me at a podcast conference. He said, I do
a podcast on PTSD for Iraqi war veterans. I said,
that's exactly the kind of news you need to talk about.
You know, everyone who has that issue will listen to
your podcast every day and doesn't matter what the stories are,
(10:45):
you're just keeping them up to date. So whether you
say the niches, the riches are in the niches, or
go nish to go big, you can do that in
whatever your space is, don't you know, don't say just
I'm an entrepreneurs like no, I'm an entrepreneur in housing
or I'm an entrepreneur in innovation or whatever it is,
(11:05):
it doesn't matter. And then start a daily news podcast
and you'll own your space.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, well that that is very true. Is especially there's
there's a whole host of reasons why you want to
do that daily news thing, from the Google searches to
just putting it, putting the next episode up there on
(11:31):
on Instagram or something, right, and it shows how relevant
you are, right, absolutely, So yeah, so you do a
daily news on compliance exactly?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
And so what were the day today's stories? Well, I mean,
just looking, I'll tell you the daily compliance news for
June six, twenty twenty four. The Securities in Exchange Commission
was closing a Salt Lake City office, the wirecard boss
lost as lawyer, a bank in England got in trouble
(12:10):
for terrorists financing, and Toyota got raided in Japan. That's it.
Three minutes and I just read the stories. I cite
to the newspaper that ran the story, and that's it,
and people absolutely love it.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
What about commentary, Well, I mean I give a few
words of commentary, but that's not the point of the news.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
It's just reporting the news. I do lots of commentary podcasts.
Typically I have a guest, although I have one that's
a round table where we have five people, so almost
the news is a solo podcast. My Sherlock Holmes series
is a solo podcast, and My Star Trek is a
solo podcast, and literally every other series is commentary with
(12:58):
me and someone else.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, okay, and.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
You want to know that. Even crazier thing people emailed
me and said, hey, we don't have time to listen daily,
could you do a weekend wrap up of your news?
So I take the top ten stories I've already talked
about during the week and do something called ten for
ten on Saturday. And it's as big as any other
podcast I am. It's just crazy.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, Well, people want the information, right and when it's
something I know you're in a niche and everything with compliance,
but if that if your niche, it's something important to people,
(13:49):
then they're going to keep tending in, aren't they?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
They are they are And that's the secret.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, so how did you Well, I guess you're a
lawyer working in this area to begin with, so you
knew that it knew that there was a need right right. So,
because that's one of the things is is people they say, oh,
(14:19):
I'm going to do something, Uh, I'm going to do
a podcast about this, is they? Well, is anybody have
you checked to see if anybody wants that information, is it?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Well, I mean that's certainly part of it. But there's
really a lot more and many more reasons to do
a podcast. Number One, I get to talk to cool
people like you. Sometimes I'm on your side of the mic,
and sometimes I'm on my side of the mic. Yeah,
but I get to all I talked to people in
this field all day. Number one. Number two is you
(14:53):
may want to show your subject matter expertise in an area,
and frankly, there's no better way than I think through
a podcast, and you know, pick your topic and talk
about it to show people, show why people should buy
your services or buy a product from you. Three is
it is a great customer development tool or client development strategy.
(15:20):
And by that, I mean if I send you an
email and said, Michael, my name is Tom Fox, I've
got this. I want to talk to you about a
compliance product. You know, here's a scheduling link. Pick a time,
maybe or maybe not or probably not, You're not going
to answer that email. But if I send you an email,
say Michael, I want you to come on my podcast
and talk about yourself. Here's a scheduling link. Pick a time.
(15:43):
You know you're going to get a pretty good response
from something like that. So if there are people you
want to do business with and you can't figure a
way to get an introduction to them, just have them
on your podcast and get comfortable. Get them comfortable with you. One,
everybody wants to tell their story right to the interaction
you'll have at least gives you some sort of relationship
(16:06):
with them. And three, you can show your not simply
technical mastery of podcasting, but also a subject matter expert
in expertise in your questions. So you know, just like
you and I had a you know, pre recording call,
we got comfortable with each other, We had a lot
of fun, realized we we both had a lot of
(16:29):
similar interests, although we came from very different backgrounds, and said, hey,
let's do this thing.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yeah. One of them, of course, being a star Trek
star Wars, and is, hey, who doesn't love a good
sci fi? Right right? Right? Well, And that leads into
the whole thing about the story thing, right is, everybody
(16:56):
wants to hear a good story, So.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
So can you craft a story the people are going
to be interested in? And I'll just give you the
most recent example because it happened this week. I have
one podcast. It's a commentary podcast about compliance with a
friend and he emailed me and he said, look, I
want to talk about the Trump conviction from the compliance perspective.
(17:22):
And I thought, well, that's going to be interesting. And
this guy is he's much more liberal than me, and
I was just afraid we were going to go way
off the rails, but we didn't. He kept it directly
focused on compliance. He laid out the compliance violations that
he saw and why are what companies could do to
(17:45):
prevent some of those things happening in their organizations. It
was incredibly professional. It was spot on for compliance professionals,
and as he told me later, it was completely cathartic
for him because he got to talk about it showtration,
but do it in a way that was professional. So
and it was a great story. And he framed it
(18:07):
in a way that I didn't think or I hadn't
thought of, So I thought it was a great story. So, uh, anyway,
there's lots of different ways to tell stories. And you know,
if you want to talk about Star Trek, I'm I'm
your guys, So back on man.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, we we do have a have a political podcast
on my end of things, and the whole thing with Trump.
That was an interesting thing because of how it was
politically fueled.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Well, and so I'm a recovering trial lawyer, so I
looked at it from the trial lawyer's perspective, and the
prosecution told a very cogent, coherent story. The defense basically
said all of its lies, but they didn't frame it
in terms of a story that the jury could relate to.
(19:03):
And so I hope it's taught from you know, the
trial strategy and tactics perspective.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah. Well, well, I was going to say, as a lawyer,
you must be really good, especially if you're actual litigator.
You said, trial lawyer, you have to be really good
at telling stories.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Well, I'm much better now through podcasting. But yeah, that's
what I did when I was a trial lawyer, and
that's that's what I do now. I just did it podcasting.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yeah, yeah, it would be a natural fit because you
you're used to telling the telling those stories.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Right, So right.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
It how do you how do you actually go about
framing the framing a story out so that so that
people stay, they keep their ear glued to glued to
what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
So I have two criteria and two criteria only for
a successful podcast. Number one how much did I learn?
And number two how much fun did I have? That's it.
And the reason is there's a guy named Gary vander Chucker,
Gary Vee, and he's a famous entrepreneur in New York City.
(20:24):
And if I am engaged, the audience can tell that
in my voice. So they say in podcasting, people come
for the host. Excuse me, come for the guest, but
stay for the host. And so if I'm learning something,
I am a subject matter expert in compliance. But if
I'm learning something, my audience is learning something. But even
(20:46):
more importantly, if I'm having fun, my audience is having
fun listening. And you know, if we go down a
rabbit hole on Star Trek, they're gonna love it and like, wow,
you know, Tom got somebody else going down Star Trek
rabbit holes. Let's check it out. No matter what the
podcast is, So if if it's engaging and if it's informative,
(21:07):
and if it's fun, people are gonna come back. And
so I try to give them that. And that's how
I judge the success of a podcast.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yeah, let me ask you just on the on the
on the Star Trek level. How many? Uh, let's see,
have you have you met any of any of the
actors like well, of course William Shatner is still alive,
But I.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Have not met any of the Star Trek actors. I
have met the son of Gene Roddenberry, a guy named
Rod Roddenberry who has a whole you know, uh business
around the Star Trek universe, and he's got several podcasts. So,
but in terms of any of the actors, none. Wow.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
But you met the son of the of the creator, right, wow,
that's that's an amazing thing.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
It was pretty cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
We we have up here, uh what we call fan Expo,
and of course William Shatner shows up every just about
every year there because he lives in this area. So
so it's it's pretty If you go, you're pretty certain
to actually meet the guy. So it's it's pretty he's
(22:32):
a pretty interesting person. But to meet the originator's son,
that's gotta be a treat and a half to hear
how Geene Rottenberry went about with the creations from from
his son's point of view. That must have been pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yeah, And I went to what, I went by their offices.
It's in somewhere in Los Angeles, and they had some
of the original set from the original Star Trek, so
I got to sit in Captain Kirk's chair and you know,
do all that cool stuff. So yeah, it was it
was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that must have been because well, I
just like, I like, I can go all day about
different different things in sci fi and everything. Is the
(23:28):
Original Trick your favorite?
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yes, it's the one I grew up with, and it's
my favorite.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah. I said it said something about the area that
you grew up in. Two it does.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
You're right. I can still remember when the first one
went in on air in September of nineteen sixty six.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah, I was a little too young. Well, let's put
this way. I was born in October sixty six, So.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
You missed the first episode yea for the October Yeah,
you were tuning in in October there, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
There you go, and they kept watching ever since then,
right there you go.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
So you started to start up podcasting one one to
fill the time. But it sounds like, uh that the
fun of actually talking to people and and uh and
creating the story has has kept kept you going.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
It really has. And like I said, you know, I
get to talk to cool people all day, But professionally,
what it's done for me, Michael, is I say that
I can either connect the dots or I can see
around corners. It's not because I'm super human. It's just
because I'm talking to everyone, and I'm literally talking to
the top experts and compliance every day, so I can
(24:58):
put together these different things I'm hearing in patterns. So
it's really given me. It's up my professionalism in the
compliance arena.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah. But with that being said, in compliance it's it's
it's a it's not a one size fits all and
it's not something that's ever going to be static, is it.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
No, it's incredibly dynamic, always evolving, And you're absolutely right.
What you need for a fifty million dollar company is
not what you need for a two hundred billion dollar multinational.
Tom Fox Law Firm does not need the compliance that
Walmart needs and vice versa.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yeah, with that being said, but you understand why Walmart
needs a different level of compliance than say Joe's Eatery
up the street?
Speaker 2 (25:56):
You bet so?
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah. Does being an international company mean that you did did?
Did you also have to because you have to be
in compliance in every nation you're in, right.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Well, if you're a US company, there's a US law
which says you cannot bribe companies outside the US. So
there's that law in Canada. You shouldn't get the name, right, Well,
it's a c f p O A. Canada has a
(26:34):
similar anti corruption law. So a Canadian company doing business
in Mexico can't pay bribes in Mexico and that because
that violates a Canadian law law. So simply because you're
located in the US, if you do business outside of
the United States, you're going to have laws apply to
you that are US laws.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yeah, well, okay, you brought up were part of I
just sort of a really good example of this one
because it's a Chinese company, Yahweh, and they detained well yeah, yeah,
they detained here in Vancouver. Uh, the CFO of Yahweh
(27:17):
as she landed here in Vancouver heading to Boston to
go see her son. But it was on a mail
fraud charge that that the I think it was the
US attorney issued the warrant for.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Well done, Michael, Yes, So the Canadian government arrested a
corporate officer from officer of Huahwei, a Chinese company in
Canada on a US warrant and absolutely and it was
alleging that Huawei had created or done lending or borrowed
(27:57):
money from banks through fraud because as they said, they
were not doing business with Iran, and the U s
government alleged they were. And I don't know why or
how Canada got in the middle of this, but they did.
But it just shows the power of compliance and what
you have to watch for literally on a worldwide basis.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah, how Canada had gotten fobbed doing it is there
is a treaty or something that the Canadian federal government
can impose or ask for the US the US government
to serve a warrant and vice versa. There's a treaty
(28:40):
there between the two countries.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
For a law non lawyer. You're incredibly well informed politics.
There you go.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Like I said, we do a political podcast and we
and I actually had to get into of that in sake.
But how But with that being said, the reason why
I bring them up is because there's also there were
some arguments back and forth about how they stole technology
(29:15):
and in China there are no such things as copyright laws.
In the US and Canada have very strict copyright laws.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Right. So I as part of my former life as
a lawyer, I represented a company and we had business
with Chinese companies and we sold technology into Chinese companies.
And this was the first decade. This is twenty years ago,
so you know, it's a while back, but we knew
that China was stealing our ip and that was just
(29:48):
either that was a risk you accepted or a cost
of doing business. So the answer, or the business response
or the risk management strategy, if you want to call
it a business process, was that the we would only
sell them technology that was two generations old, right, so
(30:09):
that it wasn't our most current technology. And whether they
were able to reverse engineer from that that I don't
know the question too. But that's been a problem with
doing business with China for a long time.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Yeah, like you said, the reverse engineering part, and it
was something that I discovered U. In a former life,
I was a analytical chemist and I worked for Mitsubishi,
which is another country that has very lax copyright laws.
(30:44):
And I remember going into a movie theater and seeing
these video cameras up if we're there simply just recording
the movie, and like, isn't there a law against that,
and the guy that was taking me to the movie
he said, Nope, no law, We're allowed to do that.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
So do you would you help as a lawyer? Would
you would you help a company understand that those practices
so that uh so that they stay within compliance or
they or they know what the risk series that you're taking.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Sure, So that's one of the things I do. What
I focus on is I help build compliance programs inside
of companies. So I call myself the nuts and bolts
guy because that's really my expertise. Uh. Lawyers either they
do what I do, or they typically will do internal
(31:46):
investigations or negotiate with the government. If you're going to
do the investigations, you need bodies. Rankly, you're gonna have
to go to a lot of a lot of places
and talk to a lot of people. I'm a solo,
so I'm not the right person for that. If you're
going to sit across the table and negotiate from with
the government, I think you need to have been a
(32:08):
government lawyer at some point. And I've never worked for
the government. I've always been in private practice, and I
think that's a level. It's just a level of expertise
I don't have. Well, what I have done is build
compliance programs inside of corporations and I know how to
do that, and so that's that's what I focus on
in my practice of compliance.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Right, that makes sense, you know, they find the right
guy for the for the right job.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
That's what I try to be.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah. Of course, leading back to the podcasting thing though,
it means that you get to network with a lot
of different people and a lot of different skill sets.
So if absolutely, if ABC company comes to that came
out wrong. But anyway, they come to you and say, hey,
(33:05):
this is what we need, and you can say, honestly, hey,
I don't actually do that, but I know this guy
and I actually interviewed him. Why don't you listen to
his interview and see if he's a fit for what
you want.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
You're absolutely spot on, and that's that's why people should
come on my podcast and talk to me.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Absolutely so, I think that the podcasting is a very
valuable tool in today's marketplace.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
I am in one agreement with you, Michael. I think
every business needs a podcast, and at least in America,
over sixty percent of Americans have listened to a podcast
that's between one hundred and eighty million and two hundred
million people. You simply cannot get that kind of exposure
in any other medium. It's not going to replace television
(34:03):
marketing or written you know, advertising, but it certainly supplements that,
and it gives you the ability to do the things
we talked about earlier. So showcase yourself as a subject
matter expert, reach out to customers or potential customers, reach
out to other subject matter experts so that you can
learn from them, and then you know, develop your own
(34:24):
audience through social media marketing. So for all of those reasons,
I'm one hundred percent with you that every business needs
a podcast, every entrepreneur needs a podcast. You need to
get a podcast going to do all of the things
that you can do in the social media realm.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Now, yeah, would you say that even if you're you know,
you don't have the time or patience to to to
to do your own podcast, but to get interviewed on
as many podcasts.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
As possible, Absolutely, I would start there. I think we
met through podmatch, and even if we didn't, I'm going
to shout out to pod match because they are exactly
what their name says. They match up podcasters with people
who want to be guests, and so that's just one
(35:17):
avenue that I use. But anytime you get the chance
to go on a podcast, there are lots I get.
You know, PR pitches on a daily basis.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
So yeah, yeah, I was going to see if for
those listening, if you can't afford a PR person if,
pod match is probably the number one spot to get
interviewed several times.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
I think I paid I don't know, twenty bucks a month.
I mean it's relatively minor, and you get, like I said,
I as a potential guest, get matched up with a
potential host like yourself. We exchange information to see if
it would be a good fit we can. Then I
have a pre interview call to see if you know
(36:04):
we want to move forward, and then then we do
the podcast. So it's a it's a great service, and
I think pod match has been great for me and
the compliance community.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah, very valuable tool. Do you have a favorite story
of of of of an interview that you just learned
lots of.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
So probably two. I mentioned Rod Roddenberry, Well he he
uh not himself personally. This company has a podcast where
they're going through every episode of every Star Trek, everything,
TV movie spin offs, you name it, and those guys
(36:51):
I have met, and so when I was out in
Los Angeles, I interviewed them and you know, we went
through every original series, every TNG, every DS nine. I
mean we didn't go through every episode, but it was
like fifty years of Star Trek and they know much
(37:13):
more than I do. So that was just heavenly for me.
That was probably my favorite, just because it was full geekness.
You could not have geeked out more and that was
probably my favorite.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
So, yeah, it sounds like you follow all of this,
all of the tracks.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
I do, So.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
I'll be honest with you. Right now, I have sitting
in my DVD player Picard.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Well and I'm doing with two other people. We're doing
our fifteen top episodes from DS nine. Oh I love
DS nine.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yeah, yeah, I like. I like Avery Brooks. He was
great actor, you know. Uh. And that's one of the
one of the things I always liked about the tracks
is like, Okay, yeah, the the original trick was was
(38:18):
very much of a spaghetti western, but but some of
the some really excellent actors and and then spians in
in the other tracks. So so yeah, they have a
(38:38):
great way of rounding up talent. So you have a
process too to getting people onto your podcast. Since we're
talking about rounding up talent, how do you how do
you round up the right guests for for the right uh,
for the right topic and compliance?
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Well, One, I know everybody, So if there's some specific
thing I want to talk about, I know, you know
the top ten people who will know about that thing,
whatever that thing might be, whether it's a court case,
whether it's a new law, whether it's a new regulation,
whatever it might be. Two is I am an addict
(39:22):
on LinkedIn and I'm always reading LinkedIn and if somebody
posts something that interests me, I DM them and say, hey,
that's an interesting idea. Would you like to come on
a podcast and talk about that? Like this woman she
wrote a I don't know two or three paragraphs on
LinkedIn and the question was do you know your hotline number?
(39:42):
And so I DMed her and I said this is fascinating,
Tell me more. And she said, well, I used to
do hotline training, meaning internal reporting training, and the first
question I would ask the audience is do you know
your hotline number? And I thought that's effing brilliant. Where
did you learn that? And I just thought it up?
(40:02):
So I ended up interviewing her about that. She's not
a lawyer, and you know, she had a very different
perspective than me and just a you know, a regular
person or what you know, the lawyers would call civilians.
And she just said she started training that way and
people understoo where she was coming from.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Wow, do you know your hotland? Wow, that's a pretty
good one.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yeah. I mean, I know you came out of the
corporate world at one point, and you know, did you
know your hotline number way back then? No?
Speaker 1 (40:30):
I didn't. There you go, I didn't. Well one our
our our home office was, uh was in Tokyo and
I was in Queen Creek, Arizona. So yeah, so we're
talking like how many different time zones? So no, I
(40:59):
didn't know it. Yeah, you know, and they and it
probably would have been good to have.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yeah, So that would be something that that that you
want to make sure that for those of you listening
and they make sure your your employees have have that
that that hotline number two to get whatever help they need, right, right? So,
(41:31):
is there a how to put this? Is there a
favorite uh? Compliance topic, did you did you like? No?
Speaker 2 (41:44):
I like them all and sometimes I like some more
than others, you know, And right now, probably my favorite
is data analytics because that's relatively new and compliance, So
how do you look at how do you analyze the
data that your company has as and then how do
you make decisions about how do you use that data?
So that's that's something I'm very focused on AI right now.
(42:08):
What's the role of AI and compliance? How do you
use AI? Is there a role things like that? How
do you govern AI usage inside of a corporation? Those
are just two of the hottest topics right now.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Yeah. On the on the topic of AI. Since we
were back, we talked a little bit about I P.
It's kind of a hot button thing because how do
you determine whose I P the the AI is when
it produces, say say a document or or an image.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Uh, you're you're absolutely right. And this whole deal with
you know, Scarlet Johanson and the voice that's got everybody
kind of up in arms. But the other thing is,
how do you know the answer AI has given you
is correct? Now, if I ask in a compliance question, frankly,
(43:07):
I'm going to know the answer. But so I'll give
you this example because it happened to me this week.
I was writing about a trial that happened in the
eighties and the defendant, a gentleman, was married to the
original wonder Woman, Linda Carter, and I knew that, and
(43:29):
it was himself and a co defendant, and the AI
report I got when I put in what I want
information I wanted about the trial, said that he was
the son in law of the other defendant, that he
was married to the daughter of the other defendant. And
I thought that that's not right, and so I started
(43:52):
doing queries, you know, what's the relationship of Robert to Nancy?
And it came back, well, Nance, he was the daughter
of so and so. And then I said, okay, what's
the relationship of Nancy to the original wonder woman Linda Carter?
And it came back and said, well, there were sisters
(44:13):
in law. And I said, this is not making sense.
And I did one more query and I get the answer,
We are sorry, we gave you an incorrect answer. Robert
Alman was married to Linda Carter. Are bad? And I went, wow, now,
chat GP is telling you when they were wrong. But
(44:33):
if I hadn't gone through those detailed additional queries, I
wouldn't have gotten an answer. And if I hadn't known
that that defendant was married to wonder woman when at
the time, I wouldn't have ever started that. So you know,
you have to do research. You have to see if
what AI has told you is correct. And I mean
(44:55):
the big example in the States is there was a
lawyer and he had AI write some chiefs and he
got they were wrong, and he got in big trouble
with the court and we all went, ah, how stupid. Well,
except the learning point is you've got to check what
they give you. It's a first draft of something, but
if there's information in there, you you know, it's on
(45:16):
you to verify it's correct.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Right, right, Hm, that's I'd like to say this about
AI that if you're going to use chat, GPT for
or whatever else is it falls into open AI for
(45:43):
for something, make sure that you did that. Maybe you
should leave it to the expert to do that, to
use that tool because he knows how to do it better.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Well here's what I've felt like, and uh uh, maybe
this will resonate with you. When I was eleven, my
parents bought my sister and I had cyclopad Encyclopedia Britannica
for the first time. We never had an encyclopedia, and
I thought it was the greatest thing I had ever seen.
I literally had the world from A to Z at
(46:17):
my fingertips and I could read, I could study, I
could write a report. I've been a geek a long time,
so you know, I enjoyed stuff like that, and that's
what I felt like with chat GPT. But your point
is exactly right. You have to double check it. Yeah,
doesn't mean you can't use it, but if there's a
fact in there and you want to make your argument
(46:37):
turns on that fact, you have to make sure that
fact is correct.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Yeah. Yeah, I do remember Encyclopedia Britannica because I remember
doing all sorts of reports and everything from it, with
all the volumes from A to z. So yeah, yeah, yeah.
That may beest thing with with AI though, is if
(47:04):
you don't know to check how to check it, then
maybe you should leave it to the expert, or go
to the expert with with the question and or somehow
fact check whatever it is that you're that you're doing.
And it doesn't seem like a lot of people want
to do that. So all right, So if you wanted
(47:32):
to create this world with your podcast, what would it look.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Like, Well, it would look like more people listening to
compliance related podcasts than there are. So because I see,
I mean, we've both been in corporate America and we
both understand business process and we we were I would say,
(47:58):
more creative now, But doesn't mean we don't understand what
a business process is. In the purpose for a business process,
I see compliance as a business process, and if I
can convince people this is just how you should do business,
it will make you a better business and make you
a more profitable business. That's what I'm trying to communicate.
And the more people I can communicate that to the
(48:19):
happier and better off than I am. The world loses
three trillion dollars annually to bribery and corruption. It loses
two trillion dollars annually to money laundering, theft through money laundering.
Every day that I do compliance, I'm moving the ball forward,
you know, two steps, one step, three steps, whatever it is,
(48:41):
a half a step, I don't care. But I'm part
of that fight of those two really horrible worldwide scourges.
Because if we could put five trillion dollars back into
the world's economy. We could solve a lot of the
world's problems. So I feel like I'm a part of
something that's bigger than me. Uh And I get to
(49:01):
tell stories, get to talk to people like you, and
I get to help businesses be more profitable. So that's
what it would look like. But that's what I'm doing now.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Yeah. Well, honestly, on that one, a business that is
making profit the right way is in the long run
helping its community, helping its employees into a whole lot
more good than just whatever the basic product is that
they're putting out there, right, So yeah, all right, Well,
(49:35):
it's been great having you on. We just need one
last item, and that is how to find the Compliance
Podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Sure, so, the Compliance Podcast Network is found at www
Appliance Podcastnetwork dot net. You can find me on LinkedIn
as Thomas R. Fox. You can email me at T
Fox at T Foxlaw dot com. I love to talk
to you if you want to be on a podcast,
let me know, all right, Thanks Tom Michael, thank you
(50:06):
so much for having me on.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
The show has been produced by Depictions Media. Please contact
us at Depictions dot media for more information,
Thank you for listening to the Pictures Media Radio. Welcome back, everybody.
(01:40):
Our next guest is also a podcaster. An award winning podcaster,
Tom Fox is the Voice of Compliance, having the only
podcast network in Compliance, the award winning Compliance to Podcast Network.
It is currently has sixty podcasts. Tom has won multiple
(02:04):
awards for podcast hosting and producing and was honored with
a Webby for his series Looking Back on nine to eleven.
He is an executive leader and at the c Suite Network,
(02:25):
the world's most trusted network of c suite leaders, and
he is also a co founder of the Texas Hill
County Podcast Network. So hey, it's be quite the honored
(02:47):
to introduce him to the show and to interview him.
It should be fun. So let's ask some Tom some
questions about podcasting and what the Voice of Compliance really
means you want, So, welcome to the show. Tom. It's
(03:40):
glad to meet. Good to meet an award winning podcaster.
And you said it's said in in in the intro
that you won a Webby, So.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Uh well, I was actually one of the five finalists
for a Webby's, so you know when they say and
the nominees are, I was one of the nominees, but
I didn't actually win it. Oh so close to the winter,
close to the winner, but not there yet.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
Yeah, I remember that one in a film festival that
the nominees are and oh we didn't get this one.
But that's okay. But you didn't start out podcasting. You
started out in another industry altogether, so right.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
So yeah, I am a lawyer by professional background, and
I started a new law practice in twenty ten. I
was laid up from a bad accident and so the
only time I left my house was to go physical therapy,
and the only thing I had on my hands was time.
At that point in my life, I knew nothing about
(04:51):
social media, Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, you name it. So I
started exploring social media, and as a part of that
social media marketing outreach, I started blogging. Well, a couple
of years later, somebody emailed me and said, hey, let's
start a podcast. So I started podcasting in twenty twelve,
and it was just a natural outgrowth from blogging.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that. So it says that
you are the also the only compliance network, compliance podcast network,
and what does compliance really mean?
Speaker 2 (05:29):
Sure? So that's correct, I'm the only I have the
only podcast network in legal and regulatory compliance. I started
that in twenty seventeen. But compliance means the program that
you have inside your corporation to comply with laws, whether
that's a law about export control, ani'm money laundering, trade sanctions,
(05:52):
workplace violence, anti discrimination, anti harassment, whatever that laws you
have to follow might be. And so I have been
practicing law in that field, or started in seven or
maybe a little bit earlier. And so I mentioned I
started podcasting in twenty twelve, and so it was about compliance,
(06:16):
and I got the bright idea, you know, I'll start
a network where we can shake and bake and slice
and dice all forms of compliance because they're multiple forms.
So that's what I did.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
Okay, Well, you know, because many people here listening their entrepreneurs,
they have numbered or named corporations. So why don't we
(06:49):
dive into into that compliance just a little bit to understand,
you know, the different different ways we need to keep
our businesses in compliance keep the government off.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
Right. So, if you're a US public company, meaning you're
you have stock listed on a stock exchange, that being
a public company means you have to have a compliance
program that's written into a US law. Uh, but even
if you're a private company, if you want to do
business basically with anyone in the United States, you have
(07:23):
to have a compliance program. And so yes, it's a
legal and regulatory compliance requirement, but businesses see the value
of doing business with other companies that do business ethically
and in compliance. So it's now really business driven. But
it's all kind of goes back to the same place
(07:44):
do you have do you do business ethically? And do
you do business and compliance? And what I wanted to
do with my network, as you said, Michael, it was
to talk about not only the different types of compliance,
but I love telling stories, and so I started thinking,
what about Shakespeare compliance, what about Star Trek in compliance?
(08:05):
What about Sherlock Holmes and compliance? What about Star Wars
in compliance? What about the MCU in compliance? What about
sports and compliance? What about women in compliance? And so
I look at compliance from all of those different angles
and many many more, which gives the listener the ability
to listen to the one that interests them. June one
(08:28):
I started every year. On June one, I started a
series called Trekking through Compliance, which is I do all
seventy nine episodes of the original series of Star Trek
so Star Trekrek Tos started in twenty seventeen. My numbers
in twenty twenty three were twice what they were in
twenty seventeen. And that's just repeating the same series. So
(08:51):
it's just crazy. You know, people can't get enough of this.
And this year I completely redid it, so it's a
whole new series, but it's still episode of the original series.
Or as my wife said, this is just an excuse
for you to rewatch this, isn't it? So yeah you bet?
Speaker 1 (09:07):
Oh yeah, why not rewatch it? Hey, I have a
DVD myself, right it would of thestas presents I ever
got exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
So I just like telling stories. And if if you're
an entrepreneur out there and you want to own your space,
you can do that with a network. But the key
is to be as niche as possible. So we had
the chance to visit before we started recording this podcast,
(09:38):
and you were like, I don't get it. I mean,
compliance who would listen to that. I'm like, well, there's
a small, detigate, dedicated group of people who that's that's
important to them. So if you can find a very small, passionate,
dedicated group and put out things that they want. You're
going to be very successful. The other thing you can
(09:58):
do in this was I can't really say I thought
of it. I can say I did it. And it's
the following. If you want to own your space, and
I mean own it, start a daily news show. So
I have the Daily Compliance News. It's three minutes of
four stories and people love it. It's, you know, by far,
(10:22):
my most popular podcast. And I you know, a guy
asked me at a podcast conference. He said, I do
a podcast on PTSD for Iraqi war veterans. I said,
that's exactly the kind of news you need to talk about.
You know, everyone who has that issue will listen to
your podcast every day and doesn't matter what the stories are,
(10:45):
you're just keeping them up to date. So whether you
say the niches, the riches are in the niches, or
go nish to go big, you can do that in
whatever your space is, don't you know, don't say just
I'm an entrepreneurs like no, I'm an entrepreneur in housing
or I'm an entrepreneur in innovation or whatever it is,
(11:05):
it doesn't matter. And then start a daily news podcast
and you'll own your space.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
Yeah, well that that is very true. Is especially there's
there's a whole host of reasons why you want to
do that daily news thing, from the Google searches to
just putting it, putting the next episode up there on
(11:31):
on Instagram or something, right, and it shows how relevant
you are, right, absolutely, So yeah, so you do a
daily news on compliance exactly?
Speaker 2 (11:48):
And so what were the day today's stories? Well, I mean,
just looking, I'll tell you the daily compliance news for
June six, twenty twenty four. The Securities in Exchange Commission
was closing a Salt Lake City office, the wirecard boss
lost as lawyer, a bank in England got in trouble
(12:10):
for terrorists financing, and Toyota got raided in Japan. That's it.
Three minutes and I just read the stories. I cite
to the newspaper that ran the story, and that's it,
and people absolutely love it.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
What about commentary, Well, I mean I give a few
words of commentary, but that's not the point of the news.
Speaker 2 (12:35):
It's just reporting the news. I do lots of commentary podcasts.
Typically I have a guest, although I have one that's
a round table where we have five people, so almost
the news is a solo podcast. My Sherlock Holmes series
is a solo podcast, and My Star Trek is a
solo podcast, and literally every other series is commentary with
(12:58):
me and someone else.
Speaker 1 (13:00):
Yeah, okay, and.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
You want to know that. Even crazier thing people emailed
me and said, hey, we don't have time to listen daily,
could you do a weekend wrap up of your news?
So I take the top ten stories I've already talked
about during the week and do something called ten for
ten on Saturday. And it's as big as any other
podcast I am. It's just crazy.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
Yeah, Well, people want the information, right and when it's
something I know you're in a niche and everything with compliance,
but if that if your niche, it's something important to people,
(13:49):
then they're going to keep tending in, aren't they?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
They are they are And that's the secret.
Speaker 1 (13:55):
Yeah, so how did you Well, I guess you're a
lawyer working in this area to begin with, so you
knew that it knew that there was a need right right. So,
because that's one of the things is is people they say, oh,
(14:19):
I'm going to do something, Uh, I'm going to do
a podcast about this, is they? Well, is anybody have
you checked to see if anybody wants that information, is it?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Well, I mean that's certainly part of it. But there's
really a lot more and many more reasons to do
a podcast. Number One, I get to talk to cool
people like you. Sometimes I'm on your side of the mic,
and sometimes I'm on my side of the mic. Yeah,
but I get to all I talked to people in
this field all day. Number one. Number two is you
(14:53):
may want to show your subject matter expertise in an area,
and frankly, there's no better way than I think through
a podcast, and you know, pick your topic and talk
about it to show people, show why people should buy
your services or buy a product from you. Three is
it is a great customer development tool or client development strategy.
(15:20):
And by that, I mean if I send you an
email and said, Michael, my name is Tom Fox, I've
got this. I want to talk to you about a
compliance product. You know, here's a scheduling link. Pick a time,
maybe or maybe not or probably not, You're not going
to answer that email. But if I send you an email,
say Michael, I want you to come on my podcast
and talk about yourself. Here's a scheduling link. Pick a time.
(15:43):
You know you're going to get a pretty good response
from something like that. So if there are people you
want to do business with and you can't figure a
way to get an introduction to them, just have them
on your podcast and get comfortable. Get them comfortable with you. One,
everybody wants to tell their story right to the interaction
you'll have at least gives you some sort of relationship
(16:06):
with them. And three, you can show your not simply
technical mastery of podcasting, but also a subject matter expert
in expertise in your questions. So you know, just like
you and I had a you know, pre recording call,
we got comfortable with each other, We had a lot
of fun, realized we we both had a lot of
(16:29):
similar interests, although we came from very different backgrounds, and said, hey,
let's do this thing.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Yeah. One of them, of course, being a star Trek
star Wars, and is, hey, who doesn't love a good
sci fi? Right right? Right? Well, And that leads into
the whole thing about the story thing, right is, everybody
(16:56):
wants to hear a good story, So.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
So can you craft a story the people are going
to be interested in? And I'll just give you the
most recent example because it happened this week. I have
one podcast. It's a commentary podcast about compliance with a
friend and he emailed me and he said, look, I
want to talk about the Trump conviction from the compliance perspective.
(17:22):
And I thought, well, that's going to be interesting. And
this guy is he's much more liberal than me, and
I was just afraid we were going to go way
off the rails, but we didn't. He kept it directly
focused on compliance. He laid out the compliance violations that
he saw and why are what companies could do to
(17:45):
prevent some of those things happening in their organizations. It
was incredibly professional. It was spot on for compliance professionals,
and as he told me later, it was completely cathartic
for him because he got to talk about it showtration,
but do it in a way that was professional. So
and it was a great story. And he framed it
(18:07):
in a way that I didn't think or I hadn't
thought of, So I thought it was a great story. So, uh, anyway,
there's lots of different ways to tell stories. And you know,
if you want to talk about Star Trek, I'm I'm
your guys, So back on man.
Speaker 1 (18:21):
Yeah, we we do have a have a political podcast
on my end of things, and the whole thing with Trump.
That was an interesting thing because of how it was
politically fueled.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Well, and so I'm a recovering trial lawyer, so I
looked at it from the trial lawyer's perspective, and the
prosecution told a very cogent, coherent story. The defense basically
said all of its lies, but they didn't frame it
in terms of a story that the jury could relate to.
(19:03):
And so I hope it's taught from you know, the
trial strategy and tactics perspective.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Yeah. Well, well, I was going to say, as a lawyer,
you must be really good, especially if you're actual litigator.
You said, trial lawyer, you have to be really good
at telling stories.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Well, I'm much better now through podcasting. But yeah, that's
what I did when I was a trial lawyer, and
that's that's what I do now. I just did it podcasting.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
Yeah, yeah, it would be a natural fit because you
you're used to telling the telling those stories.
Speaker 2 (19:44):
Right, So right.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
It how do you how do you actually go about
framing the framing a story out so that so that
people stay, they keep their ear glued to glued to
what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
So I have two criteria and two criteria only for
a successful podcast. Number one how much did I learn?
And number two how much fun did I have? That's it.
And the reason is there's a guy named Gary vander Chucker,
Gary Vee, and he's a famous entrepreneur in New York City.
(20:24):
And if I am engaged, the audience can tell that
in my voice. So they say in podcasting, people come
for the host. Excuse me, come for the guest, but
stay for the host. And so if I'm learning something,
I am a subject matter expert in compliance. But if
I'm learning something, my audience is learning something. But even
(20:46):
more importantly, if I'm having fun, my audience is having
fun listening. And you know, if we go down a
rabbit hole on Star Trek, they're gonna love it and like, wow,
you know, Tom got somebody else going down Star Trek
rabbit holes. Let's check it out. No matter what the
podcast is, So if if it's engaging and if it's informative,
(21:07):
and if it's fun, people are gonna come back. And
so I try to give them that. And that's how
I judge the success of a podcast.
Speaker 1 (21:15):
Yeah, let me ask you just on the on the
on the Star Trek level. How many? Uh, let's see,
have you have you met any of any of the
actors like well, of course William Shatner is still alive,
But I.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Have not met any of the Star Trek actors. I
have met the son of Gene Roddenberry, a guy named
Rod Roddenberry who has a whole you know, uh business
around the Star Trek universe, and he's got several podcasts. So,
but in terms of any of the actors, none. Wow.
Speaker 1 (21:57):
But you met the son of the of the creator, right, wow,
that's that's an amazing thing.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
It was pretty cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
We we have up here, uh what we call fan Expo,
and of course William Shatner shows up every just about
every year there because he lives in this area. So
so it's it's pretty If you go, you're pretty certain
to actually meet the guy. So it's it's pretty he's
(22:32):
a pretty interesting person. But to meet the originator's son,
that's gotta be a treat and a half to hear
how Geene Rottenberry went about with the creations from from
his son's point of view. That must have been pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yeah, And I went to what, I went by their offices.
It's in somewhere in Los Angeles, and they had some
of the original set from the original Star Trek, so
I got to sit in Captain Kirk's chair and you know,
do all that cool stuff. So yeah, it was it
was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that must have been because well, I
just like, I like, I can go all day about
different different things in sci fi and everything. Is the
(23:28):
Original Trick your favorite?
Speaker 2 (23:30):
Yes, it's the one I grew up with, and it's
my favorite.
Speaker 1 (23:35):
Yeah. I said it said something about the area that
you grew up in. Two it does.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
You're right. I can still remember when the first one
went in on air in September of nineteen sixty six.
Speaker 1 (23:52):
Yeah, I was a little too young. Well, let's put
this way. I was born in October sixty six, So.
Speaker 2 (24:02):
You missed the first episode yea for the October Yeah,
you were tuning in in October there, Yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:08):
There you go, and they kept watching ever since then,
right there you go.
Speaker 2 (24:13):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
So you started to start up podcasting one one to
fill the time. But it sounds like, uh that the
fun of actually talking to people and and uh and
creating the story has has kept kept you going.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
It really has. And like I said, you know, I
get to talk to cool people all day, But professionally,
what it's done for me, Michael, is I say that
I can either connect the dots or I can see
around corners. It's not because I'm super human. It's just
because I'm talking to everyone, and I'm literally talking to
the top experts and compliance every day, so I can
(24:58):
put together these different things I'm hearing in patterns. So
it's really given me. It's up my professionalism in the
compliance arena.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah. But with that being said, in compliance it's it's
it's a it's not a one size fits all and
it's not something that's ever going to be static, is it.
Speaker 2 (25:19):
No, it's incredibly dynamic, always evolving, And you're absolutely right.
What you need for a fifty million dollar company is
not what you need for a two hundred billion dollar multinational.
Tom Fox Law Firm does not need the compliance that
Walmart needs and vice versa.
Speaker 1 (25:38):
Yeah, with that being said, but you understand why Walmart
needs a different level of compliance than say Joe's Eatery
up the street?
Speaker 2 (25:56):
You bet so?
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Yeah. Does being an international company mean that you did did?
Did you also have to because you have to be
in compliance in every nation you're in, right.
Speaker 2 (26:13):
Well, if you're a US company, there's a US law
which says you cannot bribe companies outside the US. So
there's that law in Canada. You shouldn't get the name, right, Well,
it's a c f p O A. Canada has a
(26:34):
similar anti corruption law. So a Canadian company doing business
in Mexico can't pay bribes in Mexico and that because
that violates a Canadian law law. So simply because you're
located in the US, if you do business outside of
the United States, you're going to have laws apply to
you that are US laws.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yeah, well, okay, you brought up were part of I
just sort of a really good example of this one
because it's a Chinese company, Yahweh, and they detained well yeah, yeah,
they detained here in Vancouver. Uh, the CFO of Yahweh
(27:17):
as she landed here in Vancouver heading to Boston to
go see her son. But it was on a mail
fraud charge that that the I think it was the
US attorney issued the warrant for.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
Well done, Michael, Yes, So the Canadian government arrested a
corporate officer from officer of Huahwei, a Chinese company in
Canada on a US warrant and absolutely and it was
alleging that Huawei had created or done lending or borrowed
(27:57):
money from banks through fraud because as they said, they
were not doing business with Iran, and the U s
government alleged they were. And I don't know why or
how Canada got in the middle of this, but they did.
But it just shows the power of compliance and what
you have to watch for literally on a worldwide basis.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Yeah, how Canada had gotten fobbed doing it is there
is a treaty or something that the Canadian federal government
can impose or ask for the US the US government
to serve a warrant and vice versa. There's a treaty
(28:40):
there between the two countries.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
For a law non lawyer. You're incredibly well informed politics.
There you go.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Like I said, we do a political podcast and we
and I actually had to get into of that in sake.
But how But with that being said, the reason why
I bring them up is because there's also there were
some arguments back and forth about how they stole technology
(29:15):
and in China there are no such things as copyright laws.
In the US and Canada have very strict copyright laws.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Right. So I as part of my former life as
a lawyer, I represented a company and we had business
with Chinese companies and we sold technology into Chinese companies.
And this was the first decade. This is twenty years ago,
so you know, it's a while back, but we knew
that China was stealing our ip and that was just
(29:48):
either that was a risk you accepted or a cost
of doing business. So the answer, or the business response
or the risk management strategy, if you want to call
it a business process, was that the we would only
sell them technology that was two generations old, right, so
(30:09):
that it wasn't our most current technology. And whether they
were able to reverse engineer from that that I don't
know the question too. But that's been a problem with
doing business with China for a long time.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Yeah, like you said, the reverse engineering part, and it
was something that I discovered U. In a former life,
I was a analytical chemist and I worked for Mitsubishi,
which is another country that has very lax copyright laws.
(30:44):
And I remember going into a movie theater and seeing
these video cameras up if we're there simply just recording
the movie, and like, isn't there a law against that,
and the guy that was taking me to the movie
he said, Nope, no law, We're allowed to do that.
Speaker 2 (31:02):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
So do you would you help as a lawyer? Would
you would you help a company understand that those practices
so that uh so that they stay within compliance or
they or they know what the risk series that you're taking.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
Sure, So that's one of the things I do. What
I focus on is I help build compliance programs inside
of companies. So I call myself the nuts and bolts
guy because that's really my expertise. Uh. Lawyers either they
do what I do, or they typically will do internal
(31:46):
investigations or negotiate with the government. If you're going to
do the investigations, you need bodies. Rankly, you're gonna have
to go to a lot of a lot of places
and talk to a lot of people. I'm a solo,
so I'm not the right person for that. If you're
going to sit across the table and negotiate from with
the government, I think you need to have been a
(32:08):
government lawyer at some point. And I've never worked for
the government. I've always been in private practice, and I
think that's a level. It's just a level of expertise
I don't have. Well, what I have done is build
compliance programs inside of corporations and I know how to
do that, and so that's that's what I focus on
in my practice of compliance.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
Right, that makes sense, you know, they find the right
guy for the for the right job.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
That's what I try to be.
Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah. Of course, leading back to the podcasting thing though,
it means that you get to network with a lot
of different people and a lot of different skill sets.
So if absolutely, if ABC company comes to that came
out wrong. But anyway, they come to you and say, hey,
(33:05):
this is what we need, and you can say, honestly, hey,
I don't actually do that, but I know this guy
and I actually interviewed him. Why don't you listen to
his interview and see if he's a fit for what
you want.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
You're absolutely spot on, and that's that's why people should
come on my podcast and talk to me.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Absolutely so, I think that the podcasting is a very
valuable tool in today's marketplace.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
I am in one agreement with you, Michael. I think
every business needs a podcast, and at least in America,
over sixty percent of Americans have listened to a podcast
that's between one hundred and eighty million and two hundred
million people. You simply cannot get that kind of exposure
in any other medium. It's not going to replace television
(34:03):
marketing or written you know, advertising, but it certainly supplements that,
and it gives you the ability to do the things
we talked about earlier. So showcase yourself as a subject
matter expert, reach out to customers or potential customers, reach
out to other subject matter experts so that you can
learn from them, and then you know, develop your own
(34:24):
audience through social media marketing. So for all of those reasons,
I'm one hundred percent with you that every business needs
a podcast, every entrepreneur needs a podcast. You need to
get a podcast going to do all of the things
that you can do in the social media realm.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
Now, yeah, would you say that even if you're you know,
you don't have the time or patience to to to
to do your own podcast, but to get interviewed on
as many podcasts.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
As possible, Absolutely, I would start there. I think we
met through podmatch, and even if we didn't, I'm going
to shout out to pod match because they are exactly
what their name says. They match up podcasters with people
who want to be guests, and so that's just one
(35:17):
avenue that I use. But anytime you get the chance
to go on a podcast, there are lots I get.
You know, PR pitches on a daily basis.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
So yeah, yeah, I was going to see if for
those listening, if you can't afford a PR person if,
pod match is probably the number one spot to get
interviewed several times.
Speaker 2 (35:44):
I think I paid I don't know, twenty bucks a month.
I mean it's relatively minor, and you get, like I said,
I as a potential guest, get matched up with a
potential host like yourself. We exchange information to see if
it would be a good fit we can. Then I
have a pre interview call to see if you know
(36:04):
we want to move forward, and then then we do
the podcast. So it's a it's a great service, and
I think pod match has been great for me and
the compliance community.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Yeah, very valuable tool. Do you have a favorite story
of of of of an interview that you just learned
lots of.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
So probably two. I mentioned Rod Roddenberry, Well he he
uh not himself personally. This company has a podcast where
they're going through every episode of every Star Trek, everything,
TV movie spin offs, you name it, and those guys
(36:51):
I have met, and so when I was out in
Los Angeles, I interviewed them and you know, we went
through every original series, every TNG, every DS nine. I
mean we didn't go through every episode, but it was
like fifty years of Star Trek and they know much
(37:13):
more than I do. So that was just heavenly for me.
That was probably my favorite, just because it was full geekness.
You could not have geeked out more and that was
probably my favorite.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
So, yeah, it sounds like you follow all of this,
all of the tracks.
Speaker 2 (37:31):
I do, So.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
I'll be honest with you. Right now, I have sitting
in my DVD player Picard.
Speaker 2 (37:42):
Well and I'm doing with two other people. We're doing
our fifteen top episodes from DS nine. Oh I love
DS nine.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yeah, yeah, I like. I like Avery Brooks. He was
great actor, you know. Uh. And that's one of the
one of the things I always liked about the tracks
is like, Okay, yeah, the the original trick was was
(38:18):
very much of a spaghetti western, but but some of
the some really excellent actors and and then spians in
in the other tracks. So so yeah, they have a
(38:38):
great way of rounding up talent. So you have a
process too to getting people onto your podcast. Since we're
talking about rounding up talent, how do you how do
you round up the right guests for for the right uh,
for the right topic and compliance?
Speaker 2 (38:57):
Well, One, I know everybody, So if there's some specific
thing I want to talk about, I know, you know
the top ten people who will know about that thing,
whatever that thing might be, whether it's a court case,
whether it's a new law, whether it's a new regulation,
whatever it might be. Two is I am an addict
(39:22):
on LinkedIn and I'm always reading LinkedIn and if somebody
posts something that interests me, I DM them and say, hey,
that's an interesting idea. Would you like to come on
a podcast and talk about that? Like this woman she
wrote a I don't know two or three paragraphs on
LinkedIn and the question was do you know your hotline number?
(39:42):
And so I DMed her and I said this is fascinating,
Tell me more. And she said, well, I used to
do hotline training, meaning internal reporting training, and the first
question I would ask the audience is do you know
your hotline number? And I thought that's effing brilliant. Where
did you learn that? And I just thought it up?
(40:02):
So I ended up interviewing her about that. She's not
a lawyer, and you know, she had a very different
perspective than me and just a you know, a regular
person or what you know, the lawyers would call civilians.
And she just said she started training that way and
people understoo where she was coming from.
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Wow, do you know your hotland? Wow, that's a pretty
good one.
Speaker 2 (40:23):
Yeah. I mean, I know you came out of the
corporate world at one point, and you know, did you
know your hotline number way back then? No?
Speaker 1 (40:30):
I didn't. There you go, I didn't. Well one our
our our home office was, uh was in Tokyo and
I was in Queen Creek, Arizona. So yeah, so we're
talking like how many different time zones? So no, I
(40:59):
didn't know it. Yeah, you know, and they and it
probably would have been good to have.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
Yeah, So that would be something that that that you
want to make sure that for those of you listening
and they make sure your your employees have have that
that that hotline number two to get whatever help they need, right, right? So,
(41:31):
is there a how to put this? Is there a
favorite uh? Compliance topic, did you did you like? No?
Speaker 2 (41:44):
I like them all and sometimes I like some more
than others, you know, And right now, probably my favorite
is data analytics because that's relatively new and compliance, So
how do you look at how do you analyze the
data that your company has as and then how do
you make decisions about how do you use that data?
So that's that's something I'm very focused on AI right now.
(42:08):
What's the role of AI and compliance? How do you
use AI? Is there a role things like that? How
do you govern AI usage inside of a corporation? Those
are just two of the hottest topics right now.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Yeah. On the on the topic of AI. Since we
were back, we talked a little bit about I P.
It's kind of a hot button thing because how do
you determine whose I P the the AI is when
it produces, say say a document or or an image.
Speaker 2 (42:46):
Uh, you're you're absolutely right. And this whole deal with
you know, Scarlet Johanson and the voice that's got everybody
kind of up in arms. But the other thing is,
how do you know the answer AI has given you
is correct? Now, if I ask in a compliance question, frankly,
(43:07):
I'm going to know the answer. But so I'll give
you this example because it happened to me this week.
I was writing about a trial that happened in the
eighties and the defendant, a gentleman, was married to the
original wonder Woman, Linda Carter, and I knew that, and
(43:29):
it was himself and a co defendant, and the AI
report I got when I put in what I want
information I wanted about the trial, said that he was
the son in law of the other defendant, that he
was married to the daughter of the other defendant. And
I thought that that's not right, and so I started
(43:52):
doing queries, you know, what's the relationship of Robert to Nancy?
And it came back, well, Nance, he was the daughter
of so and so. And then I said, okay, what's
the relationship of Nancy to the original wonder woman Linda Carter?
And it came back and said, well, there were sisters
(44:13):
in law. And I said, this is not making sense.
And I did one more query and I get the answer,
We are sorry, we gave you an incorrect answer. Robert
Alman was married to Linda Carter. Are bad? And I went, wow, now,
chat GP is telling you when they were wrong. But
(44:33):
if I hadn't gone through those detailed additional queries, I
wouldn't have gotten an answer. And if I hadn't known
that that defendant was married to wonder woman when at
the time, I wouldn't have ever started that. So you know,
you have to do research. You have to see if
what AI has told you is correct. And I mean
(44:55):
the big example in the States is there was a
lawyer and he had AI write some chiefs and he
got they were wrong, and he got in big trouble
with the court and we all went, ah, how stupid. Well,
except the learning point is you've got to check what
they give you. It's a first draft of something, but
if there's information in there, you you know, it's on
(45:16):
you to verify it's correct.
Speaker 1 (45:19):
Right, right, Hm, that's I'd like to say this about
AI that if you're going to use chat, GPT for
or whatever else is it falls into open AI for
(45:43):
for something, make sure that you did that. Maybe you
should leave it to the expert to do that, to
use that tool because he knows how to do it better.
Speaker 2 (45:56):
Well here's what I've felt like, and uh uh, maybe
this will resonate with you. When I was eleven, my
parents bought my sister and I had cyclopad Encyclopedia Britannica
for the first time. We never had an encyclopedia, and
I thought it was the greatest thing I had ever seen.
I literally had the world from A to Z at
(46:17):
my fingertips and I could read, I could study, I
could write a report. I've been a geek a long time,
so you know, I enjoyed stuff like that, and that's
what I felt like with chat GPT. But your point
is exactly right. You have to double check it. Yeah,
doesn't mean you can't use it, but if there's a
fact in there and you want to make your argument
(46:37):
turns on that fact, you have to make sure that
fact is correct.
Speaker 1 (46:40):
Yeah. Yeah, I do remember Encyclopedia Britannica because I remember
doing all sorts of reports and everything from it, with
all the volumes from A to z. So yeah, yeah, yeah.
That may beest thing with with AI though, is if
(47:04):
you don't know to check how to check it, then
maybe you should leave it to the expert, or go
to the expert with with the question and or somehow
fact check whatever it is that you're that you're doing.
And it doesn't seem like a lot of people want
to do that. So all right, So if you wanted
(47:32):
to create this world with your podcast, what would it look.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
Like, Well, it would look like more people listening to
compliance related podcasts than there are. So because I see,
I mean, we've both been in corporate America and we
both understand business process and we we were I would say,
(47:58):
more creative now, But doesn't mean we don't understand what
a business process is. In the purpose for a business process,
I see compliance as a business process, and if I
can convince people this is just how you should do business,
it will make you a better business and make you
a more profitable business. That's what I'm trying to communicate.
And the more people I can communicate that to the
(48:19):
happier and better off than I am. The world loses
three trillion dollars annually to bribery and corruption. It loses
two trillion dollars annually to money laundering, theft through money laundering.
Every day that I do compliance, I'm moving the ball forward,
you know, two steps, one step, three steps, whatever it is,
(48:41):
a half a step, I don't care. But I'm part
of that fight of those two really horrible worldwide scourges.
Because if we could put five trillion dollars back into
the world's economy. We could solve a lot of the
world's problems. So I feel like I'm a part of
something that's bigger than me. Uh And I get to
(49:01):
tell stories, get to talk to people like you, and
I get to help businesses be more profitable. So that's
what it would look like. But that's what I'm doing now.
Speaker 1 (49:11):
Yeah. Well, honestly, on that one, a business that is
making profit the right way is in the long run
helping its community, helping its employees into a whole lot
more good than just whatever the basic product is that
they're putting out there, right, So yeah, all right, Well,
(49:35):
it's been great having you on. We just need one
last item, and that is how to find the Compliance
Podcast Network.
Speaker 2 (49:46):
Sure, so, the Compliance Podcast Network is found at www
Appliance Podcastnetwork dot net. You can find me on LinkedIn
as Thomas R. Fox. You can email me at T
Fox at T Foxlaw dot com. I love to talk
to you if you want to be on a podcast,
let me know, all right, Thanks Tom Michael, thank you
(50:06):
so much for having me on.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
The show has been produced by Depictions Media. Please contact
us at Depictions dot media for more information,
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