Episode 46: Mary Anne Urlakis interviews Dr. Alan Moy, founder of Cellular Engineering Technologies (CET) (March 12, 2024)

In this episode of Inter Vitam et Mortem, Dr. Mary Anne Urlakis interviews Dr. Alan Moy, founder of Cellular Engineering Technologies (CET) (March 12, 2024)

In 2005, Dr. Moy left his tenured academic career  to start a private solo pulmonary practice at a nearby Catholic hospital and started, on the same day, Cellular Engineering Technologies (CET), a biotech company with a modest goal of manufacturing adult stem cels. In 2006, he founded the non-profit John Paul II Medical Research Institute (JP2MRI). Initially the mission was to educate society on pro-life medical research ethics and advocate for the US to pursue adult stem cell research. 

CET/JP2MRI developed biotechnology that is now superior and has the future potential to replace embryonic stem cells and aborted fetal cells that now commonly are used in the biopharmaceutical industry. While this change will not occur overnight, the scientific and business foundation is in place to support this vision. See the paper that was published in the Linacre Quarterly that describes Dr. Moy's journey.  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32549639/

Dr. Moy was recently asked to publish a paper on the challenges of induced pluripotent stem cells for the European Medical Society.  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38188933/

Both CET/JP2MRI are at an inflection point in their science and business to take off and hopefully achieve the vision that Dr. Moy started 2 decades ago.  

Dr. Moy recently published an honest criticism directed towards Catholic and pro-life institutions.  https://thefederalist.com/2024/02/12/this-one-abortion-story-changed-medicine-forever-but-pro-lifers-hardly-talk-about-it/

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
You're listening to wc AT radio,your home for authentic Catholic programming. Good
afternoon, and welcome to w CATRadio and this edition of Intervetum at Mortem
between Life and Death Interviews and discussionwith the Catholic bioethicist. I am your
host, doctor Mary Andre Lacis.I'm a classically trained and degreed bioethicist,

(00:21):
and today I have with me adistinguished guest, doctor Alan Moy. Before
we begin, let us start aswe always do, with the prayer the
name of the Father and the Sonin the Holy Spirit. Dear God,
our heavenly Creator, You are theauthor of life and of truth. The
reality that you will each and everyhuman person into being created from the moment
of conception, buring the dignity andimprint of your own image and likeness within

(00:44):
the very essence of our being isa mystery beyond human understanding. Please help
us to have a greater appreciation forthe gift of being created in your image
and likeness. Help us to reverencethat reality in our brothers and sisters,
especially the tiniest and most vulnerable amongthem. And help us to defend this
sanctity of every human life from conceptionto natural death through the intercession of our
Lady, the ever Pure and allImmaculate, Blessed Virgin Mary, the name

(01:07):
of the Five and the Son andthe Holy Spirity Man. Again, thank
you for tuning into this episode ofInterview to mcmordhem between life and Death Interviews
and discussion with the Catholic bioethicist.I am your host, Doctor Marianner Lacus,
and today i'd like to welcome tothe show a distinguished guest, Doctor
Alan Moy. In two thousand andfive, doctor moy left his tenured academic
career to start a private, solopulmonary practice at a nearby Catholic hospital.

(01:30):
On the same day, he startedCellular Engineering Technologies c ET, a biotech
company with a modest goal of manufacturingadult stem cells. A year later,
in two thousand and six, doctormoy founded the not for profit John Paul
two Medical Research Institute JP two MRI. Initially, the mission was to educate
society regarding pro life medical research ethicsand advocate for the US to pursue adult

(01:55):
stem cell research. Subsequently, throughCET and JP two MRI, doctor moyan
is team developed biotechnology that is nowsuperior and has the future potential to replace
embryonic stem cells and aborted fetal cellsthat are now commonly used in the bio
pharmaceutical industry. The potential of thebiotechnology that doctor moyan is colleagues at CET

(02:15):
JP two MRI have developed is revolutionary. However, as the two potential of
this work unfolds, doctor moy hasencountered a number of challenges. He has
published essays detailing some of these issuesin both the Federalists last month and the
Leonardkerk Quarterly in twenty nineteen. Intoday's interview, I especially wish to focus

(02:36):
on this aspect of his work.Welcome, doctor moy thank you so much
for taking time for today's interview.Well, thank you a pleasure to agree
with you in layman's terms. Couldyou explain a bit about the biotechnology that
you have developed and why it issignificant? Sure? So, there are

(02:59):
humane technical aspects that have been developedin collaboration with the aforementioned UH Cellar Engineering
Technology and JP two m RI Ito address the the the twombing problems that
are h in in separabile technology.They had impact on the Catholic healthcare system.

(03:23):
One was obviously as you mentioned theembryon scam cell issue, and the
other is the use of a borderfield cell lines that have been around for
decades in terms in terms of usingthe manufacturing of medical medications. So the
first the first task that we pursuedwas to come up with a better essentially

(03:46):
a better mouse trap than the needfor using an embryon scam cell. And
so from a obviously the ethical issuesare clear. I don't need to go
into that people I think Catholics arewhere that what that means is that we're
destroying human embryosy deshoying life to producea therapy. But from a scientific standpoint,

(04:11):
from a very lament standpoint, andthere are scientific deficits, deficiencies issues
with both of these types of cellsthat are that we pursued because ultimately we
want to see the replacement of thesecell lines with something that not just as

(04:31):
moral acceptable within the health the Catholicfaith, but we want to have something
that is going to be adopted bythe mainstream of biopharmaceutical industry. So getting
back to the ambulanch stem cell,it was it came out back in nineteen

(04:51):
ninety eight. It was first introduced. It took off. But the problems
with the ambryanch stem cell was onefrom a scientific notwithstanding the ethical issue that
there's a major state, there's amajor safety issue. The safety issue.
The safety issue is that these thesestem cells have an inherent genetic instability that

(05:17):
when you put them into a andwhen you put them in put them into
a mouse or animal model, itwill form a tumor. And so these
these these cells have inherent genetic instability. They also when you're trying to make
a credit product, you're not goingto get a uniform reproducible product. So

(05:42):
because you've got all sorts of geneticaberrations, cells that are not the same
as you know what they started outto be. So from a from A
simply from a uh A, simplyfrom a standpoint of bioto technology quality control,
those were obviously a major of safetyissues. So the next milestone that

(06:10):
was graded in two thousand and sixto sort of overcome this was the advent
of something called an induced peropotent scamcell, what we call it as an
acronym iPSCs and so here. AniPSC was founded by a Japanese scientist,

(06:30):
doctor Simon Yamanaka, and he introducedthis technology in two thousand and six,
and what he basically did is hetook a handful of genes and then inject
him into a human adult cell andtransformed it into an embryonic like scam cell,

(06:53):
which looks like and behaved like anembryonic scam cell. And so it
it had the ability of having thesame performance, but it also avoided that
that that safety risks excuse me,that ethical risk associated with embryonic stem cells.

(07:15):
The problem with the IPS, theearlier IPS cells was that it because
the some of the genes that wereused in that methodology, it formed a
tumor just like an embryonic stem cell. And the way the way you had

(07:36):
to introduce these foreign genes into aadult skin cell in this case, it
said you had to use viruses.And obviously when you use viruses and cancer
genes, that's a safety issue.And a lot of these viruses are produced
from an abortive field cell line calledthe h K two ninety rade. So

(07:59):
you have you don't necessarily eliminate theethical issue altogether, and you have this
these significant safety issues with using virusesand having these cancer genes are being introduced
to produce the cell. So theinnovation that we pursued was, Okay,

(08:20):
can we can we eliminate the ethicalissue? Can we eliminate the viral issue?
Can we eliminate the cancer the needfor cancer gene and still produce a
IPS cell that is com completely freeof ethical controversy and also would not have
the same safety risks, which obviouslyno one wants to have this risk of

(08:46):
being exposed to the potential for viralinfection or viral immune risks and cancer risks.
So that's what we pursue. That'swhat we pursued, and we solve
the problem. Back in twenty andseventeen, we published that in a similar
article and show that if you takesay skin cells from the newborns a newborn

(09:11):
circumcision, you can we we couldproduce those cells, and we can do
it very efficiently and reproducibly. Andso then in the following year we extended
a method to using cells that aremore available, like blood cells, and

(09:35):
so we use cord blood, weuse cord blood, we use cells from
patients with clinical diseases, and weasked the question, can we can that
method work for a different cell thatit might be more amenable and more readily
available. Obviously, you don't wantto if you want to do research on
children, you don't want to subjectup to a necessary skin biopsy. So

(10:01):
we wanted something that could be moreeasily You can use a cell one that
could be more easily used. Sowe did that and we published that and
the method was a little bit oftweaking. We were able to get that
method reproduced very efficiently also in bloodcells. So that was published and subsequently

(10:26):
we filed and received the US tattenback in twenty twenty two, and that
work was a collaboration between our twoorganizations CT and JP two. So that
that solved I think the controversy ofwe really need using embryon scam cells and

(10:50):
so we I think we have nowcreated a better mouse trap with better safety,
super more reliable, has scientific superioritythan they need to use and we
under stem cells. So that wasthat was goal wine we accomplished that.
The second one was okay. Theis that how do we deal with a

(11:11):
cell line that is ubiquitous in thebiopharmaceutical industry, that is currently been used
for the production of a whole varietyof different advanced medicines, and that was
the cell line called the h GKtwo ninety three cell. And for those

(11:33):
who don't know, for the latepersons who don't know, for the background
of the HK two ninety three cell, it was created in the nineteen seventies
by scientists from the Netherlands, andthat sell created from the a first trimester
unborn female using the using kidney tissueand that UH and so hence the name

(12:03):
human embryonic kidney or h K isthe cell the tissue which it was originally
derived. The two ninety three justrefers to the number of attempts that that's
that was needed by the scientific teamto produce that cell line, which subsequently

(12:24):
has taken off and is now usedin a whole variety of products and services
for the bio pharmaceutical industry UH.For example, UH it's used in UH
in the production of gene therapy.So just about every gene therapy currently used
in medical resource or or in treatmentuses the at K two ninety three cell.

(12:50):
The h K two ninety three cellis used in the production of about
a third of the proteins that areproduced by the bottle pharmaceutical industry, and
so the so it's a Currently it'sover one hundred billion dollar market and it's

(13:11):
and we we predect that by twothousand in uh in five years it will
double. And so it doesn't getthe ah K T ninety doesn't get a
lot of attention, and the problemdoesn't get receive a lot of attention in
terms of the scope within the CatholicChurch or within the Catholic healthcare system.

(13:35):
But I think you got to putthis in perspective, is that Planned Parenthood
is is generating one and a halfbillion dollars a year from its abortion services.
But you know, we're talking abouta cell line that's producing one hundred
times more in terms of revenue forthe biopharmaceutical industry. And so the thing

(13:56):
was, how do we solve thatproblem? And so I again the Institute
took the lead on that problem.The Institute had established sort of a legacy
in producing adult stem cells, andso what we did is that we asked,
can we make a cell line aHGK two ninety three replaceable cell line?

(14:22):
And so one of the problems withthe HECT ninety three is that it's
fifty years old, obviously, andso the technology that was used to create
it is it's so antiquated. Butone of the ways which it was originally
created was it used a large fragmentof a virus to transform that cell into

(14:45):
a state where it can be immortalized. That is, immortalized means that it
can live forever. But that cellhas problems, one of which is that
it's not really a human cell anymore. It's been transformed so where it is
produces probably fifty times more chromosomes thanwhat's in a normal human cell, so

(15:13):
fifty four chrome fifty four chromosomes.It has been the turb and has has
viral elements in it because it usedviral elements and so and there are a
number of other scientific and complicated thingsthat are shortcomings of that cell line.
But it's was it also passed throughwas it also passed through Vero kidney cells

(15:37):
and the Viero monkey cells, andtherefore has potential to be contaminated by any
of the cancer causing agents that mayhave come from the Vero monkey cell line
too. Well, you know,I'm not aware of that. I think
the VIA cell had its own vagranciesand its own history that it was contaminated

(16:02):
with uh uh with with with awith the viruses that had cancer propensity.
But I'm not I don't know ifthere I'm not aware whether there was any
cross contamination with between the verel celland the HECT two ninety three, not
as a say, not as theysay, there's a lot of things that

(16:23):
have been done with the HEAD twoninety three, but one of the things
that has been done with the originalHECT two ninety three, it has been
transformed with a virus called the SCforty, which which made you may be
referring to the sty and the SCfourty was also was was contaminated in the

(16:45):
original vara cells. So the SCfoury was done to uh was used in
the HECT two ninety three to sortof give it this additional kick, to
make it grow faster, to makeit bill to grow in a way to
increase the production capabilities, the scaleof making a product. So yes,

(17:10):
there there, there, there is. There has been transformation with the HECT
two ninety three. So we werereally we don't from a regulatory standpoint,
we don't really have. If youhave, you know, we know everything
what's in the HECT two ninety threeand their derivatives. From a regulatory standpoint,

(17:32):
No, I think there are alot of still unknowns about that.
So obviously we would like to havesomething that's clear. We want something that
then transformed with autavirus. Do youwant to know from a regulatory standpoint,
when we do something to a cell, we know we want to know exactly
what was put in until that cellto transform it. So what we did,

(17:56):
So what we did we took astem cell from cord blood that we
had expertise and experience in and wetook these postmatal cells stem cells, and
we use a method called Crisper.And so what Crisper is is a is
a is a new genetic method thatallows you to insert very specific modifications.

(18:22):
You can you can add in oryou can remove specific genes in a very
very specific way, and make thesemodifications and transform them these cells and you
now know exactly what you did.So from a regular story standpoint, you

(18:42):
know that would be really nice.And so what we did is we took
we used Crisper, and we madethese changes and these One of the things
we wanted to ask is can canwe get these cells, these stem cells
to grow as fasts and robust asa HECT two ninety three and so that

(19:03):
was the first thing. So wedid that and we found that we can
we can get these cells to reducetheir We could see up their growth rate
to a level that is very comparableto HECK two ninety three, because obviously,
from a pharmaceutical perspective, you wantto be able to have a cell

(19:25):
that can grow as staff and turnout exactly the HECK two ninety three is
because because it's a cost issue obviouslyfor making a product. So we were
able to do that and the cellsmaintain their normal chromosomal number, and we

(19:48):
we ask whether or not, okay, can we produce a product a protein
like a HECT two ninety three.He does, And so we did that
and we show that we can produceproteins from this new cell ie. So
we were able to so far hcreate a HEC two ninety three replacement CELLI

(20:15):
that we we have fought the institutehas fled a patent eye and we are
now moving that technology into a commercialoperation. And so using these two tech
complimentary technologies, we are trying tomove it into UH into an area where

(20:40):
we want to sort of get apenetration on a sort of a beachfront where
we can science find an opportunity topromote uh this technology into some type of
therapeutic operation or at least or atleast in a commercial operation. How difficult

(21:02):
do you think it will be toreplace the HECT two ninety three in existing
biotechnology? How difficult do you thinkit will be to transform the industry to
accept that clearly this technology is cleanerand scientifically superior, but there's a cost

(21:22):
with retooling and going back to priorproducts and reintroducing them. How big of
a challenge is that, Well,I think that's that's the frequently frequently asked
question, and it is a It'snot going to happen overnight, and so
pharmacutic companies are not going to simplyabandoned their their workflow and say, well,

(21:48):
we made this product, you knowit's going to prove and we're going
to simply replace it, because there'sa certain consumer religious, consumer group out
there that's had the problem with that. So what we're looking for is there
are there segments within within the thebiopharmacical industry where the industry, the scientists

(22:17):
are unhappy with the current some ofthese current products the way they're made,
and can we find a market segmentwhere we can get some penetration, and
I think there are we have donemarket research, we have been speaking with

(22:37):
the industry, and there are conficienciesin how some of these proteins are made.
And they're not just made from HEEPtwo ninety three, they're made from
other types of cells which carry aninherent quality control issue. And so I

(22:59):
think that I think where I envisionedthe two areas where we can penetrate is
make taking these cells and producing certainUH peptiz what we call growth factors that
are important important in in the inin a variety of different applications. And

(23:29):
that's acessarily very large market segment,and so we're looking to penetrate in that
that that market segment, and we'vespoken to there's a lot of this statistics,
the satisfaction among the industry on thequality of those growth factors as it
stands today. UH. The otheris that if you have growth factors,

(23:56):
then the those growth factors are UHare very important in the routine production manufacturer
of stem cell therapies. And sothe way stem cell therapies are currently being
developed is they're using UH cell linesjust not just had two ninety three,

(24:18):
but cell lines from bacteria that justhave quality controls. And so what we
have so what we have found,we've done, we've done which received brand
federal brands to look at how thoseuh, if if you use a higher
quality growth factor that that you wouldexpect to try to be reproducible, what

(24:45):
you would see in uterol that inthe development the mother is going to be
the fear of development is going torely on multiple stages of development, all
them using growth factors that are humangrowth factors that are important in normal human

(25:07):
development. Well, it doesn't.It's those growth factors are very species specific.
It's it's what's grown out of whatmanufacturer out of bacteria is not the
same that's seen in in in inthe in the womb, and so there's
a there's a there. We knowthat from our research that using a more

(25:32):
native human growth factor provides better abetter quality product. Sure, how how
eagerly have Catholic pro life groups andthe episcopate welcomed your biotechnology. I think

(25:53):
that it's been a mixed back.As I've written in a recent essay in
a stialists, it has it hasbeen a very difficult message to communicate and
a part of it is, Ithink depends upon who that audience is,

(26:18):
from the established, from the establishedCatholic u institutions like the Vatican, like
US Catholic bishops, from the onesto who you would think should be stakeholders
in this whole process. There hasbeen very little interests and why that's there's
very very little interests, you know, I think there are just competing interests

(26:40):
compreting problems that they have priorities,and so so I think it's one is
a very complicated topic. Yeah,it's not as clear as abortion, and
it's a it's a it's a complicatedtopic for the problem of movement, but

(27:00):
uh, it's it's a topic thatit's going to have significant ramification on on
Catholics, from whether they're not aCatholic hospital is going to be able to
maintain their Catholic identity, whether healthcareproviders who are going to be administering these

(27:22):
types of agents are going to bewhen they're when when they become aware,
how comfortable are they going to bein administering it. And these products are
because of their nature, their advancedare complicated. These are not drugs that
you're going to get from your localpharmacists and Walgreen pharmacy and take home.

(27:44):
They have to be administered and deliveredprobably in a hospital setting. And so
that those are the things that we'regoing to raise the complexity and are going
to make it more complicated, andthey're going to touch to intrude in through
our healthcare, a Catholic healthcare system. Do you think there's a component of
scientific literacy that is weighing in onthis? Oh, I think there is

(28:11):
a significant literacy. I think peopledon't understand some of the science of me.
Admittedly, there is a there isit's a complexity to it. But
I also think that you know,the pro life movement tends to be preoccupied

(28:33):
with abortion, and it needs tobe. I mean, it obviously needs
to be, but there needs tobe some level of advocacy and education among
the pro life movement to at leasttell pro educative provide uh uh members of

(28:56):
our society, because those a lotof people who would probably considered pro life
and you ask them whether they wouldsupport that type of research, I think
they wouldn't, but they don't knowthat the vast majority of research foundations support

(29:18):
the use of these technologies, andso they're actually uh financing uh these organizations,
and they're not putting pressure on theseorganizations to try to persuade them persuade
them from continuing in this area.So there's there's a I think a need

(29:40):
within the pro life community to doa better job in educating. I think
you're absolutely right, and I've foundthe same thing in the work that I
do. I gave a talk tobishops several years ago on the subject of
chimeras UH and they were shot,ah if we and I said at that

(30:03):
point, if we don't even knowthese issues exist, we can't even begin
to pray on them, and thatat the very least, you know,
we need to educate both scientifically andcatechetically regarding what the issues are, and
to ask people to begin to prayabout these issues as we try and move

(30:23):
forward with them. What do youthink ought to be done to ameliorate the
situation. Well, I think itwould be helpful if we had the Pro
Life Committee of the USCCB to stepup and do a better job of telling

(30:47):
our bishops and educating them that theyneeded they needed to start educating their dioceses.
I think that and we have togive them the tools to provide make
it clear to them how to UHcommunicate this message, this complicated message to

(31:11):
Catholics. I think if we don'thave our bishops start to advocate and educate
people, then people are just gotgoing to say, well, why is
it important? Why should we careabout this? So I think that it
would help if our if we canstart it, we can get our bishops

(31:33):
to educate, and if we canstart getting the Pro Life Committee at from
the USCCB to do a better job, I think that would be important.
So I think the second thing wouldbe we need to start getting our pro
life our natural region, in ourregional UH pro life organizations that you know,

(32:00):
you need to spend some amount ofresources to educate because when I look
at the websites of these pro lifeanti abortion organizations, there's hardly anything there,
hardly any educational information about this.And so I think the major problem

(32:25):
is just simply better education, betteradvocacy in this area. Well, actin
Moore, you have given us muchto ponder. I have a great deal
of respect for you and the workthat you do, and I'm also respectful
of the time that you have,so thank you so much for taking the

(32:45):
time to speak with us today.Please be assured of our prayers and support.
You know, my God bless youand the work that you do.
Thank you so much for taking thetime to be on interview to m Mordam
with me today. Well, thankyou and God bless you. Hello,
God's beloved. I'm Annabel Moseley,author, professor of theology and host of

(33:07):
then Sings My Soul and Destination Sainthoodon WCAT Radio. I invite you to
listen in and find inspiration along thissacred journey. We're traveling together to make
our lives a masterpiece and with God'sgrace, become saints. Join me Annabel
Moseley for then Sings My Soul andDestination Sainthood on WCAT Radio. God bless

(33:32):
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you for listening to a production ofWCAT Radio. Please join us in our
mission of evangelization and don't forget Lovelifts up when knowledge takes flight.