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February 13, 2024 36 mins

Tech innovations have the power to transform our world. But how can we focus technology to help everyone?

In our kickoff episode of season two of Into the Singleverse, Raj sits down with Van Jones, an activist, CNN political commentator, and world-class changemaker.

Listen to Van share his story of how growing up in a rural community in Tennessee inspired him to dedicate his life to activism and how his foundation, Dream Machine, is using AI to drive for social change. 

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Episode Transcript

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(01:00:00):
[MUSIC]
This is Into the
Singleverse with Raj Verma.
Unfiltered conversations about the latest
trends and the
tangible effects of real-time
data on pivotal industries, our daily
lives, and the future of our world.

(01:00:20):
My guest this week is Van Jones.
In addition to his role as a CNN
political correspondent,
Van is a change maker and a
thought leader working towards building a
better society for everyone.
He's the founder and CEO of Dream
Machine, a nonprofit
organization that is looking to
change and create a harmonious society by

(01:00:41):
tackling issues in
technology, environment,
and renewable energy plus prison reform
and other critical 21st century issues.
Today I had the pleasure of meeting Van
and rapper Will.i.am,
who co-hosted Make Wakanda
Real, a tech summit that's shown a
spotlight on how we can

(01:01:02):
ensure that underrepresented
and overlooked communities are at the
forefront of the AI boom.
Van, welcome to Into the Singleverse.
It's great to see you again.
It's good to see you again, too.
That was a great night
and we had a good time.
Yeah, it was truly a great night.

(01:01:23):
So Van, we started a conversation which I
want to actually continue.
I'm an immigrant to this great country
and I bring with it my
own experiences, some good,
some not that good.
How was it growing up in
America as a black man?

(01:01:44):
Well, you know, I was born in 1968.
So that was the year they shot Dr. King,
killed Bobby Kennedy,
beat up a bunch of students
at the Democratic Convention who were
wanting peace in Vietnam.
So the year I was born, they were trying
to kill hope in America.
But that wave of hope was hard to stop

(01:02:06):
and it infected my
parents and infected me.
And I grew up in an America that was
trying to racially
integrate, desegregate.
I went to public
schools in the rural south.
In those days, black and white students
for that decade, black
and white students were

(01:02:26):
actually in the same buildings together.
It was segregated before and it's been
re-segregated since because
it's been so much of an exodus
to the private schools.
But I had the benefit in the 70s and 80s
of growing up side by
side with white kids.
We didn't have much money, they didn't
have much money, but we
got a chance to know each
other.
And that has affected me as a commentator

(01:02:47):
on television, having
grown up in a red state
on the edge of a small town.
I understand the Trump voters.
I understand as a young left-wing student
at Yale, I understand
the Bernie Sanders voters.
I understand a lot of
different kind of people.
But I'm so glad I was born when I was
born, where I was born.

(01:03:09):
I think I've got a good sense about where
people are coming from.
I faced my share of discrimination, but I
also was given a lot
of determination by my
family as a ninth generation American.
And when the doors opened for my
generation, we ran through
them and we're still running.
That's incredible.

(01:03:31):
The one thing that, as I said, I came in
about 20 years ago to this
country and my experience
has actually been great.
I live in the Silicon Valley, where
innovation actually happens.
Not all of it, but some pretty incredible
companies are formed there.
And I've just found America, and this is

(01:03:51):
my perspective, but it
does give an equal platform.
At least it gave me an equal platform.
Were all my experiences pleasant?
Like someone says, you always energize
certain experiences and
then forget about the others.
And it's typically the

(01:04:11):
harsh ones that stay with you.
And how you overcome those harsh
experiences determines
really how you turn out.
We see you, I see you as someone I look
up to, both because of
your articulation, because
of everything else that you do that you

(01:04:32):
hear every day, but also
because of your courage
and tenacity to be
able to speak your mind.
And that is a platform
that is uniquely American.
So share with us, if you don't mind, some
of the experiences
that you had to sort of
let go to be able to sit here in your

(01:04:54):
coveted position as an
opinion and a thought leader
in America.
I had all the same experiences that you
hear about as a young
African American man.
Look, I'm in my fifties now, and I'm on
TV, so people are
pretty nice to me wherever I
go.
And I have a different life than I had.
But you're a young African American man,

(01:05:16):
you walk into a store,
and people assume you're
there to steal something.
It's not a good feeling.
I remember when I had my son, Cabral,
who's now in his late
teens in college, when he
was a little bit of a baby, when I would
walk into a store and I
had him, suddenly everybody
was nice to me.
And I was like, "Oh, I guess they figure
I'm not here to rob

(01:05:37):
because I have a small baby
with me."
And so people would relax and
talk to me and be nice to me.
And I was like, it was proof to me that,
"Hey, I'm seen as a threat.
Just because I'm six feet one, I'm
African American, I'm a
man, and people, they've been
trained to see me as maybe somebody who's
going to do something negative.
So I'm kind of guilty
until proven innocent."

(01:05:58):
Those experiences scar you.
They really scar you, and you become
defensive, you become
hypervigilant, and it gets in the
way of being the creative, imaginative,
free person you were
when you were a little kid
and didn't know about all this stuff and
had an experience with all that stuff.
So I've had to do a lot of work on myself
to get back to just a

(01:06:21):
reset moment in my own
heart where I assume that whatever God
placed in me that I
think is good will eventually
win out.
I may have to work a little bit harder.
I may have to reassure some people.
I may have to get some other people who

(01:06:42):
don't look like me to
stand next to me to validate
me, but I'm willing to do that extra work
because I want to make a difference.
I want to make a positive difference.
When I grew up, my heroes were Bobby
Kennedy and Dr. King, even
though they had been killed
the year I was born.
They used their voices, they used their
presence, they used their
whole life to make America
better, to help people
who didn't have anything.

(01:07:03):
I don't want any of the scar tissue on my
soul from mean people
that said mean stuff
a long time ago to get in the way of my
contribution today and
what I can do for tomorrow.
But it was not easy.
And everybody doesn't get there.
Look, I've been rewarded
because I had great parents.

(01:07:24):
Even though I went to public schools in
the South, we had great teachers.
We didn't have any resources, but we had
resourceful teachers.
We didn't have many resources, but we had
resourceful teachers.
I was able to go to Yale Law School.
I was able to become a – I
was able to teach at Princeton.
I was able to be a
fellow at MIT Media Lab.
I've done all the great stuff, but I came
from a very different place.

(01:07:45):
And that tenacity you're talking about,
it didn't come from me.
It came from my parents, my grandparents,
who went through so
much worse than I did.
And they didn't give up.
They sharecropping and cleaning other
people's houses and all
those difficult things.
My father joined the military in the
middle of Vietnam just
trying to get out of poverty.

(01:08:06):
They had the tenacity, and
they gave me the opportunity.
And yes, I've had my bad days, but I've
done my best to put
them in perspective and
keep pushing.
You've just been incredible.
I remember, you know, I grew up going to
a private school in India.
We called them public
school, top school in the city.

(01:08:27):
Dad was in the army.
We didn't have much, but we
had access to a lot of resources.
So I had a pretty decent life.
And then I leave India,
and I come to America.
And this is a true story that I haven't
shared with too many people.
I had an American boss who walks into my
office, and he sits down,

(01:08:48):
puts his feet on my table,
and he hands me a can.
And I'm like, "What the hell is that?"
He says, "Look, man, I don't know you,
but you fucking Indians stink.
So here is a can of deodorant.
Make sure you use it
before you come to work."
This is 25 years ago.

(01:09:08):
And you know, I actually initially
thought it was a joke or a prank.
And then I realized he
actually wasn't joking.
He was mega serious.
And you know, it's so funny.
I actually, I had that moment to react as
to how I would react to this.

(01:09:32):
And I still actually have that deodorant
can in my bathroom
that I will never throw
away because it just shows how lack of
information, education, and
exposure makes people feel
so absolutely belittled by people who are

(01:09:56):
in positions of authority and power.
And as life has been much like yourself,
and I still have my
journey to take, as life
has gotten a little, how do I put it?
As I can probably influence more lives,
that can of deodorant

(01:10:17):
is something that I look
at practically a few times a week to
ensure that I'm never as
rude or almost borderline
cruel to people that are, that don't look
like me, feel like me,
talk like me, or behave
like me.
And so yeah, this, I just shared the
story just in the sake of reciprocity.

(01:10:38):
Well, I appreciate you saying that.
And first of all, that's horrible.
And that is, that is cruel.
And I think that what I would say to
somebody listening to
that story and to you is, you
know, in my faith, we would say, God
meant that for good.
Breakdowns can become

(01:10:59):
breakthroughs if we use them right.
You will never be cruel in your life ever
again because someone was cruel.
Now you're in a position of leadership
and authority you're gonna be so much
kinder you turn that bad into good you
turn that evil into good.

(01:11:19):
And i think that's what i want to say to
anybody who suffering from discrimination
or feels that they've had a somebody had
them a bad deck a mean can of deodorant a
dirty look an insert insult a slur.
Don't do those people the favor of
letting that then let you become better.
And stop you from doing what you're
supposed to do the most important thing

(01:11:40):
we can do is just what you did take that
can of the deodorant put it on the mantle
and every day when you walk out of your
home say i'm going to do good for people
that's the only thing we can do.
Is to is to turn all this pain into
promise for other people and and i'm glad
you told that story is a terrible story
but you've done great with it.
Yeah but you're right i think it

(01:12:00):
motivates me just basically propelled me
and and you articulate it so beautifully
that you know it rather than breaking me
down gave me a breakthrough which i think
has made me a better better human.
The one thing i'd love to understand from
your take your views on this is you know

(01:12:21):
i've lived in six different countries and
before i got here and.
No country has more of a innovation
platform or innovation culture than
America, it has all its problems and it
has all its challenges it truly is to me

(01:12:43):
one of the greatest countries in the world, if not the greatest country in the world.
And especially when you take the platform
that it offers for innovation, especially
here in the valley it's just incredible
incredible it doesn't matter what you say
what you wear how you look as long as you
have a smart idea it is appreciated and i have a narrow view since i live in the valley.

(01:13:04):
What do you think spurs that culture of
innovation there the valley in America
has led the world in innovation for the
last hundred hundred years or so where
does where is that basis of your opinion.
We get to cheat we get to cheat we get to

(01:13:31):
steal all the best talent from around the
world you know when you see when you look
at the olympics the chinese team comes
out everybody there is from china the
Kenyan team comes out everybody there is
from Kenya the Italian team comes out
everybody there almost is from it from
italy when the US team comes out.
We got every color in the rainbow every

(01:13:55):
color in the skittles bag we look like
the muppet show because we got all the
talent from everywhere so it's hard to
lose when you get to steal all the best
talent now the problem is you have people
now want to close off America and say we
don't want to need these geniuses to come
here we don't want any hungry hard
working people to come here when i keep
them all out and now i gotta be stuck

(01:14:16):
trying to win against the world with
people i went to high school with i'm gonna tell you right now.
People in high school with are not going
to beat the world i want people from
around the world to come here okay this
is reality i want people to come from
around the world and keep us going i
don't understand why people are anti
immigrant when it's the immigrant
population is coming in here refreshing

(01:14:36):
over and over and over again that hunger
that drive that determination that
innovation people are so happy to get
away from wherever they came from where
everything was you know locked down and
bureaucratic and you know who where you were born and who you could bring in here.
You were born and who you could bribe and
it was more important than what was in
your heart in your head now i think you
might overstate this case a little bit to
the extent that you know it there are

(01:14:58):
barriers are not fair
even in silicon valley.
You know if you're a female if you're a
person called there these
challenges are still there but.
The opportunity is unmatched even with
those barriers even with those scars and
scratches the opportunities on mash and i
think too many people in america forget
that number one on the right wing.

(01:15:19):
My conservative friends please remember
we're stealing the best talent don't
think you're that damn good you're not
that good i'm not that good we got we're
stealing the best talent and people on
the left wing please don't forget is for
all our our flaws and scars.
I don't i'm trying to find a better
country i think one i can't think of a
perfect country i'm trying to try to
think of one where if

(01:15:39):
you can deal with all the.
Some of the disappointments of the biases
that exists if you can figure out a way
to internalize that in a way that
empowers you and doesn't disempower you
the upside opportunity United States is
unmatched and so I think both wings of
our political discourse
are missing the point.
This is this is a.

(01:16:02):
it's a.
What we have here what we've been able to
do here in the United States.
You think about.
Liberty and justice for all just as a
concept, the right wing likes liberty
individual rights limited government the
left wing likes justice, you know up with
the poor and the oppressor whatever.

(01:16:24):
You put those two things together in the
right balance you get liberty the best of
capitalism and justice the best of
idealism you put those together you have
a great country and i
don't see another one like it.
Absolutely to to sort of questions that i
have just because i think you are.

(01:16:44):
The right person for me to be educated on
I hear from the right wing media.
That one of the biggest reason why they
get support for their anti immigration
policy is because immigrants come in and
heighten up crime right.

(01:17:07):
And and you have been involved in in a
prison reforms, etc.
How how what's your answer to a right
wing statement which says that we are for
stopping immigration because they they
escalate crime and we
feel unsafe around them.

(01:17:28):
Just not true I mean on a per capita
basis the our immigrant communities are
the least prone to crime now you might
say well you know they come here without
paperwork they're committing a crime
every day, but the kind of crime we're
talking about violent crime drug drug
crime on a per capita basis they're the
least likely to commit crime.
Some of the populations at the right wing

(01:17:52):
targets like say the muslim population
they have the lowest crime rate the
muslims they have the highest educational
attainment for women they have the
highest business formation rate.
The muslims are basically the model
american community if a muslim family
moved in next door to you you would say
hallelujah because the chance of your
kids getting in trouble just went way

(01:18:13):
down those kids are going to be studying and doing doing the right stuff.
So and then we talk about you know
mexican american kids and folks from
south of the border yeah some of those
people who come in here doing bad stuff
but they're not doing best up by
themselves they're doing best up bringing
drugs supplying drugs or which are the
massive demand here because of problems

(01:18:35):
on this side of the border with a big
demand for drugs but it's a mistake even
focus on that because of vast majority of people who are coming here coming here for work.
People who are coming here coming here
for work they're picking the fruit that
and the best for you today they're
working the service sector they're
working in the construction sector listen
i tell people all the time.

(01:18:55):
Do you have a house yes does ever rain
yes you ever had a leak
in your roof yes well.
Who do you think is fixing the roofs i'm
here in california every roofer was not
born here nine states.
On the person who's watching your
grandmother right now the nursing home
probably was not born
in the united states.

(01:19:16):
Other person is watching your kid right
now a day care play wasn't born in the
united states so you can say i'm pro
immigration i'm pro grandma's and babies
and roofs getting the help they need on
the net all comes people
not born in united states.
So some of this stuff
is just foolishness.
Yes there's some bad people in the
immigrant community they're bad people in

(01:19:36):
the non immigrant community as well does
bad people in every community but you
don't throw the baby out with bathwater.
What you why don't we expel all the why
don't we spell everybody in the domestic
person united states because some of us
commit crimes with that makes sense would
you want to push every.
Law binding american citizen often the
ocean because some of us commit crimes no
well then why are you going to turn fair

(01:19:56):
the whole immigrant population because
some of them commit crimes.
This is become kind of a tribal.
dividing line inside the united states
which doesn't have anything to do with
being fair we need immigrants.
The innovation comes from there the the
energy comes from there the passion comes

(01:20:18):
from there and you really want to leave
all these good people in other
countries compete against us.
Yeah you're dumb I don't want it you're
not happy in your country come here and
make us better if you can start your
business over there please come up here
start here you know that's that's that's
that's what's keeping us competitive it's
not the people I went to high
school with I tell you that.
love that.

(01:20:40):
You know I'm a father for and.
The sort of the all Americans and.
They grew up feeling American they are
American they are kind giving.
Naturally well educated and they have an
optimism for the future that the use of

(01:21:03):
technology will make the
world a better place all right.
Two of my older kids are pursuing data
science and cal berkeley.
And the two others in high one in high
school one is too young and they are
extremely optimistic about how they will
partake in the use of technology to make

(01:21:24):
the world a better place the society a better place and serve.
The underprivileged the vulnerable in
society and I know you're a big proponent
of how I and the upcoming technologies
would level the playing field for the
underprivileged the
underserved the downtrodden.
In in society please share your views and

(01:21:46):
on how you think that that's going to happen.
Well it may happen it may not it's it's
it's up to us you know reminds me of the
story we used to talk to tell us in
church where a little kid has a little
baby bird in his hands and he goes up to
the wise man and he says the wise man is this bird alive or this bird did in my hand.
And the wise man knew well he said the

(01:22:12):
bird was dead he would open his hand and
let the bird out if he said the bird was
alive he'd crush the bird and then show
it was a dead bird so it was a trick
question is this bird alive or dead.
So what the wise man says is well I don't
know for sure the answer but I can tell
you this it's in your hands it's in your
hands so it's in our hands it could we could have a great.

(01:22:33):
We could have a great future we have a
future we can imagine or it could be a
disaster it's in our hands and I think
it's important that those of us who.
Frankly want to see disruption need to
see disruption you care
about poor communities.

(01:22:55):
The school system needs to be disrupted
the way we educate poor kids of the health care system that needs to be disrupted.
The community safety level community
safety that needs to be disrupted.
But those communities by themselves don't
have the power to disrupt those systems
that are not serving them at the same
time the technologists they have the

(01:23:16):
power to disrupt everything you look at
AI you look at biotech you look at quantum computing you look at all of the technologies.
That are just exploding right now they
have the potential to disrupt everything
but what for what purpose.
It just greed and speed you just want
money just want to be first you want to

(01:23:37):
compete your competitors well you got a
lot of power you don't have much purpose.
At the same time you got communities have
a lot of purpose they need to disruption but they don't have a lot of power but if you bring those two trees together.
You bring the technologists who have the
power to really rethink and disrupt and
redesign everything but they don't
necessarily have a strong purpose.
With the people who lack that power but

(01:23:59):
have that purpose now
you've got something special.
Now you can start using this technology
to uplift communities you start using
this power to really tap into the great
potential of every child on earth you got the ability to deal with climate change you got the ability to deal with.
Chronic diseases got the ability to deal
with nutrition you got the ability to do
so much with technology if it is allied

(01:24:21):
to the people who need a
different newer and better system.
It's just a lie to the people who have
money for big contracts and who try to
figure out only how to be commercially
successful but they don't care ifthey're doing well while they're doing good.
They're doing good while they're doing
well well then you might have a disaster
but I have a great deal of confidence in

(01:24:41):
this young generation because they're so
aware like they do know about the
problems of the world they do want to
live meaningful lives.
They wanted to do well and make money but
they also want to do good and that's
really the hope in the future so when we
say make Wakanda real for all you Marvel fans you might see my Spider-Man up there.
For all you Marvel fans you may remember

(01:25:06):
Wakanda is the the country from which the
Black Panther comes and it's a
technological superpower but it's African
people with you know they're all their
traditions and all their beauty and all their culture but they also have technology.
Well that is what we should be trying to
create around the world indigenous people
black and brown people poor people let's

(01:25:28):
make Wakanda real let's put technology in
the hands of communities that have been
left out overlooked
underestimated help them bloom first.
I guarantee you whatever you do with
technology if you have a little bit of an
orientation for the people who are
usually overlooked your technology is going to be better your market is going to be better.
Your technology is going to be better
your market is going to be bigger your

(01:25:48):
feelings going to be prouder your brand
is going to be stronger it's a lot better
to use technology in service of the best
in people and that's what our whole make
Wakanda real campaign is all
about out of dream machine.
Yeah it was great being playing a very
very small part in that I enjoyed that
evening and in our interaction that I

(01:26:10):
think and I'm sure I'm
going to get this wrong but.
I think you have the belief that if you
could join the four pillars of federal
government education and I forget I think
political will and Hollywood which you
know provides the culture you can
actually do a lot of good I'm sure I got
one of those four pillars wrong.

(01:26:31):
That made a lot of sense and I do think
that generative AI for one does have the
ability to connect those powerhouses and
if we have the will to point it in the
right direction with the right.
Purpose I do think that we could do good
but I naturally butchered but I'll give

(01:26:53):
you an opportunity to really share how
you think of that that future.
Well.
Right now there when we talk
about four pillars of power.
You're right federal government.
The power of democracy the power of
government but that's only one power you
mentioned Hollywood media that the power

(01:27:15):
storytelling the other two
are what I call Wall Street.
Finance you know that's a big source of
power in New York City and then in
Northern California where you are
technology it's
actually a map of the country.
You know you look at the Bay Area that's
where the technology power is you look at
New York City that's where finance is you

(01:27:36):
look at Washington DC that's where
government power is you look here in in
LA that's where media
story to tell it those four.
Could be brought together those big
powerhouse centers
brought together for good.
There's nothing you can't get done and
it's you know listen it all those are
complicated power centers and have their
internal dynamics and what but just from

(01:27:57):
a conceptual point of view.
Remember we have all the power that we
need we've got the tools that we need the
technology that we need we have an open
system for innovation of an open system
for political change.
We're set up to do great here and we have
this incredibly diverse young generation
that's bringing so many different points
of view to the table so
many different ideas the table.

(01:28:19):
I just want to make sure that we keep
that optimism keep that keep our spirits
up it's so easy social media you know
you'll drive you crazy
you'll be depressed and just.
Distressed or distracted or divided.
We should be using these things as tools
and not toys for distraction tools to
bring us together and solve these

(01:28:39):
problems and and I
think the young generation.
Has a real real opportunity I think
people in our generations have to hold
the door open form and help them and
support them, but I think
you have a real opportunity.
We know change is coming.
We know change is coming nothing is going
to be the same 20 years from now 10 years

(01:29:00):
from now look 25 years now I didn't have
a pager let alone a smartphone I mean I
let me 25 years ago I
didn't even have a beeper.
I think we have fax machines 25 years
later I mean you can learn anything you
want to just sitting on the beach with
your phone so where are we going to be in

(01:29:21):
20 years in 25 years we
can't even imagine it.
Let's make sure we're bending it toward
good let's make sure we're bending I
can't make change anymore in the last
century of the good lawyer good activist
I could make change.
You're going to make the change
technology is going to make the change by
the time of Senate subcommittee finishes
introducing all the senators you've

(01:29:42):
updated my phone five times that's a
looking back so the
changes coming from technology.
So the question isn't how do I make
change the question is how do I make the
change that's coming help more people.
How do I make the change the technology
is going to drive help more people that's
this century's question not how do I in

(01:30:02):
government I as an activist I as a
protester I as a lawyer how do I make
change that's the last century.
The new century is how do I make the
change the technology is going to bring
help more people and that's what make
what kind of real is all about
recognizing the power of technology
government has a role to play but it's
going to play a much smaller role overall

(01:30:22):
just because you guys are going so dag
gone fast the government's not going to
be able to keep up anyway let's make sure
you're going fast in the right direction.
You know in this time next year we would
know who the next president of our great
nation is there's a lot
of trepidation around that.
And on both sides right and

(01:30:44):
and we we think those two.
Two sort of options are pretty dramatic
in terms of the outcomes and what's
what's your prediction and
how do you think it affects.
Specifically what you just said you know
we will have a lot of power through

(01:31:06):
technology and channeling it for good is
going to be more important
than ever ever ever before.
What do you what do you think is yeah if
you had a crystal ball this time next
year Raj and Van are having a chat what
do we see the world looking like.

(01:31:28):
We got some challenges now because
there's something called World War three
wherever that looks like we will say.
It started these past couple of years.
Because what it looks like is
lining up is the democracies.
United States European Union Israel.

(01:31:54):
On one side of the kind of a divide and
then on the other side is starting to
look like China Russia Iran North Korea.
And you start to see proxy battles break
out between those two camps Ukraine is
something of a proxy battle Hamas.

(01:32:14):
And you know the fight you know what's
going on over there something of a proxy
battle because Hamas is supported by Iran
Ukraine supported by the United States.
You start to see proxy battles break out
along these different lines and divisions
and but we have imperfect
democracies going up against.

(01:32:35):
Pretty from my point of view scary
autocracy that seems to be the clash the
problem that you have this.
If you dip into a more authoritarian
direction in the United States.
If you don't support Ukraine in the
United States if you don't stick up for

(01:32:56):
civil liberties and civil rights for
everybody in the United States.
You advantage on the world stage the
autocrats the authoritarians.
I think that's a bad outcome because you
really want actually more democracy more
openness more innovation more freedom.
Maybe you get enough energy to solve all

(01:33:18):
these problems when it comes to you know
poverty and pollution
and everything else.
So I worry I worry that this bright
future I see as possible through
technology does require some stability on
the world stage and does require the
continued expansion of democracy and open
societies and not the collapse thereof.

(01:33:40):
Long way of saying.
I worry about the
election that's coming up.
Look I work for Joe Biden when I was in
the Obama administration I worked with
Donald Trump on criminal justice black
colleges and opportunity zones.
And I work for Barack Obama and I was
successful in getting George W Bush to
sign my green jobs act and I even was

(01:34:01):
successful working with
Bill Clinton as a young guy.
So I work with Republican Democrats
everybody knows I'm as bipartisan as his left wing Democrat can be.
So it's not that I'm hyper partisan
sometimes you need to change a party but
you don't want to change of direction
away from democracy.
You don't want to change a direction away
from open society you don't want to

(01:34:23):
change of direction on the global stage
that leads democracy at risk
in Europe or in the Middle East.
So this is a this is a great challenge
and I don't make any predictions at all.
I don't make any predictions at all.
I'm not optimistic I'm not
pessimistic I'm determined.

(01:34:44):
I'm not optimistic.
I'm not pessimistic I'm just determined
that we have the future that your kids
deserve and my kids deserve some that's
about politics and that's about economics
and it's about technology some is about
innovation so it's about
just telling the right story.
I'm a storyteller.
The right story if I could write it

(01:35:05):
myself would be next year we get close to
the edge of looking at what it would mean
to have radically less democracy
radically less rule of law radically more
susceptibility
corruption in the United States.
And we pull back from that.

(01:35:25):
Whether it's the Republicans that pulls
back of Democrats that pulls back that we
that we pull back from that and we
recommit as a country both parties and
people outside the parties.
That at least the United States rule of
law matters democracy matters of society
matters tolerance matters inclusion
matters innovation matters and then we
recommit to that because we don't do it

(01:35:46):
here I worry about the rest of the world.
Well my friend this has been an
energizing conversation
very very very well said.
I hope you make your flight in time it's
an absolute pleasure to be with you this
afternoon and also look forward to
supporting some of your you know
initiatives that you that you lead it'll

(01:36:08):
be a privilege and an honor to do so.
And stay well and be well.
Thank you. Thank you for listening to the podcast if
you enjoyed it don't forget to subscribe
to automatically receive future episodes.
Additionally I would greatly appreciate
it if you can take a moment to leave a
review helping others
like you discover the show.

(01:36:29):
I'll see you next time
stay well and be good.
This was into the single verse with Raj
Verma to learn more about
Raj please go to Raj verma.com.
This is a single
store podcast production.
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