May 28, 2024 • 29 mins
Republican Geoff Duncan was the GA Lt. Governor in 2020 when Donald Trump tried to steal a presidential election. Duncan refused to go along with the "Stop the Steal" effort and has now endorsed Joe Biden for re-election in 2024. But why is he the only high-ranking Republican who has done so? Join us for an engaging conversation about how Duncan hopes his public support of the Democrat candidate can make it easier for others to do the same.
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(00:02):
Is it just me? Or havewe all lost our minds? It's a
question I've been asking myself on repeatfor the last eight years, and I
know I'm not alone in that.Is it the politics, is it the
culture? Or am I just gettingold? Hi? I'm Jennifer Horn and
I'm a former Republican strategist and partyleader turned independent sanity activist. I decided
(00:24):
to do this podcast so we couldexplore these questions. I'll bring experts to
the table from politics and media andculture. We'll have raw, insightful conversations
with the clear goal of getting tothe bottom of it all. One way
or another. We've all lost ourminds, and I hope you'll join us
on the journey to find them again. Hi, this is Jennifer Horn and
(00:48):
you're listening to Is it just me? Or have we all lost our minds?
And I have to say I'm waitingfor the day when I make that
introduction and I can say, no, I don't think I've lost my mind.
It's always something. And we've gota great guest joining that particular part
of the conversation with us today.He's been here before. You all know
who he is. Jeff Duncan isthe former lieutenant governor of Georgia. He
(01:11):
has authored a really insightful book.By the way, we talked about this
last summer, but if you haven'tgotten it, I recommend it GOP two
point zero. He's a contributor atCNN, and just recently, just in
the last week or two, thisformer Republican lieutenant governor of Georgia endorsed sitting
(01:33):
Democratic President Joe Biden for president.It's great to have you back with us,
Jeff, thank you so much.Absolutely glad to be here. And
that was quite a warm up toa great conversation. So good, I
hope. So we're all about heregreat conversations. So I've read your endorsement
of Joe Biden a couple of times, and I just said to you off
(01:53):
the air, you know, thelast time we talked, you weren't really
quite there yet where you thought youwould be endorsing Democrats, but you were
very You've always been very clear Ithink about how you feel about Donald Trump.
And one of the lines that kindof stuck with me in your endorsement,
and it was early on in thefirst two or three paragraphs where you
said conservatives not angry conservative but notangry Republicans are left with no choice but
(02:20):
to pull the lever for Joe Biden. And you talked about that last time
we were together. The difference betweenbeing an angry person, you know,
being an angry Republican or not beingangry. It's an important distinction to you,
and I would love to start withyou just explain to me why that
distinction is so important and then maybelead into what is it that has led
you to decide not just to votefor Biden, but to publicly endorse him.
(02:45):
That's a whole different step. Yeah. I think there's two separate factions
of the Republican Party that are reallystarting to poke their heads up and become
evident. One is the group thatI'm in, and that's just folks who
are a conservative that we believe conservativeanswers to policy questions are really the best
leaning ways to go right, whetherit's fiscal policy, social policies, governing
(03:07):
policies, foreign policy. I'm abig fan of conservatism. But then there's
this other quadrant that Donald Trump seemsto obviously be the chief spokesman for,
and that's his angry crowd. Theyreally can't articulate for you any sort of
conservative strategies to go forward to kindof fix inflationary issues, border control issues,
foreign policy, monetary issues. Theyjust are angry. And to me,
(03:29):
that's the chaos and confusion that DonaldTrump continues to stoke. And so
unfortunately, we've in the just levelheaded, non angry conservative crowd have been
outnumbered in the past few elections,and certainly in this one in the primary,
but we're not outnumbered nationally. Ithink that's important to kind of look
at since twenty sixteen, that brandof conservatives, which are angry and not
(03:52):
very articulate, keep getting beat.And they not only get beat at the
president level, they got beat inthe US House. We're supposed to have
massively, you know, raging majoritiesin the House, but they picked a
cast of characters that were angry,angry and loud. They were certainly good
at that, and of course welost the majorities, and so it just
continues on and on and on.I think for certain we'll lose again.
(04:14):
The Republican Party will lose no matterwhat happens in this election. Right if
Trump is the nominee and then ultimatelywins the election, we're gonna watch the
brand of Republicans get destroyed whatever's leftof it, because Donald Trump will run
it in the ground or as acard carrying conservative. You've got Joe Biden,
who obviously is not a card carryingconservative, and so we just have
(04:34):
to work with the best of ourabilities to try to try to change the
trajectory of his administration. But kindof going back to your second part of
the question was, yeah, Ididn't get here lightly as a lifelong Republican.
You know, I certainly have triedeverything I could possibly do other than
endorsing Joe Biden. Right. Isupported Nikki Haley, I wrote her a
(04:56):
check, I campaigned for I saidas many nice things as I could.
I told all my friends about it. I shared social media posts that obviously
didn't work. Then I even entertainedthe idea of running as a New Labels
candidate for president. I spent twoor three weeks of my life traveling the
country, meeting, you know,my family, meeting with people, trying
to understand was there a pathway tovictory there? And the answer that I
(05:17):
came up with was no. Andso now I've got this criminal defendant with
no moral compass and I've got somebodyI disagree with on policies on the other
side, but is a decent humanAnd my heart is angling towards I think
a decent human is a best isa better of the two selections, And
I'm going to go work to thebest of my abilities to try to soften
and you know, marginalize some ofthe far left leaning policies of the Biden
(05:43):
administration and try to work with themas much as I possibly can. And
you know, I just think that'sthe best place for us to be to
give us the time we need asRepublicans for the next four years after the
election to actually go do the workto find a leader, to find a
message, to find policies that wecan actually lean into, and try to
try to rebuild this party from theground up. Well, you just said
(06:08):
something I want to get into alittle bit of that, This about the
Republican Party and going forward and howI still say we I you know,
to be clear, I'm an independentnow. I left the party in twenty
twenty and I'm registered independent. Butyou just used a couple of words that
I've used for for as long asI've been in politics. Before Trump was
part of the conversation a decency,and I think you said about Trump,
(06:31):
no moral compass. I grew upin upstate New York with Donald Trump on
the front page of the tabloids everytime I went to the grocery store with
my mother, you know, Andso when he got into the political world,
I knew who Donald Trump was andthere was no way I was ever
going to endorse him or support himin any manner. And a lot of
people who thought I was wrong thenhave come to that same position. And
(06:55):
you know a lot of people whoall I was wrong men and still think
I'm wrong. I don't care aboutthat part of it. But what I
do care about are those two wordsthat those two phrases you just use,
no moral compass and decency. Isthat really what's at the heart of where
the the problems in politics are today? Where you know where the differences are
coming together or where the divisions arecoming together. Do we have a growing
(07:19):
population of Americans who don't value decencyor don't expect decency in their politicians anymore.
Yeah? Absolutely, I mean that'sthe heart of the problem. I
think both sides of the isle wouldpoint to that. In that is long.
A win is a win is awin in some people's minds. But
really, truly, what makes thiscountry unique, what makes you know,
(07:42):
us special, is that we havewe have a history of electing great leaders
that understand how to build consensus,that under understand how to solve world problems,
economic problems, social issues. Andyou know, it feels as though
our country continues to lose its way. I've been quoted a million times as
calling Donald Trump a fake Republican becauseas a as a card carrying, lifelong
(08:05):
Republican, I can say that becauseI'm honestly looking at the facts. We
just wanted a win. So DonaldTrump was an overnight, you know,
success inside the Republican Party because hewas you know, all those things right.
I took the bait right. Justjust for the record, I took
the bait too, of course,not he was the last I think he
was the seventeenth Republican that I finallygot behind. But shame on me,
(08:28):
I ended up getting behind him earlyin his presidency. But a win is
so important that we'll just cast allof the Republican principles at the door.
He printed eight trillion dollars worth themoney we didn't have. That's not a
conservative principle. He told us hewas going to secure the border. His
rhetoric was extremely strong, and Igive him credit for the rhetoric actually proved
to us. He made South Americascared to death to migrate north and didn't
(08:52):
build a wall. He built aselfie station, right. He built Republican
politicians to show up and talk aboutit. Joe Biden comes in and basically
tell us the southern hemisphere, Hey, we're open for business, come on
up, and they did by themillions. And that's really the influx that
we've created. There's more work tobe done on the border, regardless of
who the president is. COVID right, We act like Donald Trump got COVID
(09:15):
right, He didn't. Ryan kempI and several others in the state opened
Georgia back up and got berated forit by Donald Trump because he was listening
Anthony Fauci and others. There's betterways to be a Republican than Donald Trump.
And we've just given him a hallpass because he's created this cult following
that has confused chaos and anger withconservatism, and they're two totally separate subjects,
(09:39):
and it does seem and I likethat you keep going back to the
anger part. At least beak.It does seem that people like ourselves wherever
each of us are here on theanti Trump side of the line, it's
become very difficult to have this conversationwith others with out the anger exploding.
(10:01):
And as I think about it andlook back, it's not just the last
couple of years, it's not justsince January sixth, and that's always been
what Trump has used as his fuelfor the fire. I guess, you
know, he's figured out how toidentify and magnify the anger. Joe Biden,
on the other hand, is definitelyI don't want to say he's soft
(10:22):
or soft spoken. He's you know, he's clearly a tough guy. He's
and he's made it to the presidency. But he has a very different approach.
He doesn't care about numbers, hedoesn't care about these big rallies.
He doesn't campaign the same way.He doesn't try I've never seen him at
least where I thought he was tryingto intentionally stoke anger as a way to
(10:43):
motivate people. How do how dothose two how do they match up head
to head as candidates, and whatdoes Joe Biden have that's going to be
able to sort of overcome. Imean, the anger thing has worked for
Trump. He won with the angerthing. Now of course he lost with
it. But I guess kind ofcompare them as candidates and are as leaders
(11:05):
and these different tones that they had, these different demeanors that they bring to
the table to thee Both candidates Bidenand Trump have more headwinds than they have
tailwinds. Okay, I've ad nauseumtalked about Donald Trump and all the shortcomings.
I mean, just just to knowthat you got to turn on the
TV and listen to this horrific personalpersonal story play out of porn stars and
(11:30):
fake hush money payments and affairs andbankruptcies and crooked deals like that. That's
hard to listen to it and actuallyexpect somebody to be a good leader.
The headwinds for Joe Biden is he'sway further left than I am. I
think he's way further left than thecountry. Is. Part of that is
because he had to make a politicalcalculus, you know, calculation that he
needed those votes to become president,and so you know, those those policies
(11:52):
are far left, and also hisage right, I would say it if
he was sitting here. He isolder than what I would expect an average
leader of the most powerful, importantcountry in the world to face the toughest
decisions of the day. But eitherway, we've got to pick one or
the other. For me, justgravitated towards the decent humans going to make
better decisions. The decent human isgoing to do what you're asking or what
(12:15):
you just highlighted, and that wasto have cordial conversations with people you disagree
with. I actually got to experiencethat. I wrote my opinion piece a
couple of weeks ago, and nextthing, you know, I get a
phone call from President Biden and wehad a great discussion. We had a
discussion about how do we you know, yes, we disagree on a lot,
but we do agree Donald Trump's dangerousfor the country. And I also
(12:35):
had, you know, an openconversation that I would like to lean into
some of those policies dragged his administrationback more towards the middle than the far
left. I just think that's amore workable, palatable solution for this country
and the times that we face heretoday, which are global conflict, in
every region of the world. Aneconomic you know, I feel like every
(12:56):
the economy's never been so good asfar as the numbers, but never been
so poorly as to people's you know, perception of it, right, that
there's a divide there of epic proportionin really both administrations are are are to
blame for Donald Trump printed eight trilliondollars worth the money we don't have.
Joe Biden continued to put coal onthe fire that we didn't have in the
(13:18):
tune of you know, upwards ofnine trillion dollars. All of that put
together has created an inflationary environment thatreally feels uncomfortable, not just from a
from a dollars and cents standpoint,not just from a paycheck standpoint, but
from a we're all smart enough toknow our houses probably shouldn't be worth as
much as they're worth today. Brockleyshouldn't be as much as it's worth today,
Gasoline, all of that, itshouldn't be worth as much as it
(13:41):
is today, but it is,and so that's created this uncomfortable angst amongst
all of us. That's a goodpoint. And the way you just laid
it out, like we all know, looking at because I keep looking at
it thinking, you know, oneof the lines that Biden uses is that
we have the best post COVID recoveryeconomy in the world. And he's right,
but people who look in our countrydon't feel it. And you just
(14:01):
made that point very you know,succinctly, and when it is the idea
like we know that our houses.I think that's a great point, you
know, especially for those of uswho live in you know, cute little
cottages in a nice little neighborhood,and suddenly the price tag for that feels
insane, feels insane. For mydaughter, she talks all the time about
(14:22):
the grocery store, like, eventhough some of the prices have gone down,
she can't get over what she's spendingat the grocery store. So how
do we communicate with voters, withcitizens when that's the overwhelming feeling? The
truth that our economy is not asbad as it feels to all of us
(14:43):
on election day doesn't matter, doesit. It doesn't matter what that truth
is on election day. It matterswhat it feels like to the people who
are casting their ballots. How doyou the economy, I think is the
hardest thing to convince people that whatthey feel might not be accurate. Yes,
to your point, it's hard foranybody to justify the economy right now.
(15:03):
Whether you're sitting in a house that'sworth two and a half times which
you paid for it a few yearsago, whether you're sitting on a plethora
of four oh one K cash thatis absolutely skyrocketed, or you're just simply
walking in the grocery store every twodays and trying to buy, you know,
enough food to feed your three orfour person family. Nobody can justify
the economy right now. And that'sa sign of really a symptom of seventeen
(15:26):
eighteen, nineteen twenty trillion dollars worthof money just showing up out of nowhere
to try to stimulate through COVID,which turned out to be a hiccup and
not the flu. And then also, you know, even before that,
an accelerated multi decade period of timewhere we had low to zero percent interest
rates, all because nobody wanted tofall on the sword as a president and
(15:50):
you know, be in charge whenthere was a recession. Economy's ebb and
flow. But all that to besaid, the voters just are looking at
a snapshot in time, and forme, that snapshot in time is starting
to fade. For Donald Trump,I mean, we've proven him to be
a loser. We've proven this brandto be a loser, We've proven his
strategies to be a loser. Ithink there's going to be tens of millions
(16:12):
of Republicans or former Republicans or independentsthat just show up on election Day in
November and they're like, you knowwhat, a lot like that, Jeff
Duncan, guy, I'm going tovote for a decent person over that,
and just hope that this all goesbetter than it is right now. I
really truly think that's where we're going, and both parties will wake up from
(16:33):
this twenty twenty eight. I hopewe have the most talent rich election on
both sides of the isle we've everhad. I hope young, energetic leaders
that have vision and strategy and passionand connectivity with the voters show up on
both sides of the isle and demandthat Americans pay attention to real leaders and
(16:55):
not just folks that show up becausethey win. You know, a couple
of straw polls in a couple ofimportant I am with you. I've said
that many times one hundred percent.The other thing is I have faith in
the people, and I think you'reThat's part of what you're saying now too.
This is one of the things Iget the most pushback on social media.
I say, like, how canyou be optimistic? Or what makes
(17:15):
you think this? Like, Igenuinely have faith in the people. I
think that when folks like you,who are elected leaders, who have some
you know, some gravitas, comeforward and can speak in a patriotic and
optimistic manner about the future to peoplewho feel stuck in what feels like a
very destructive present, I think thatI think that makes a difference. I
(17:38):
was asked on one of the interviewsI gave after you endorsed right, and
did I think it was going toopen the door to a whole bunch more
elective Republicans doing the same thing.And I said, no, I don't
think that it will. But Ithink that when you do it, that
it makes that it opens the mindsand the hearts of a lot of voters
out there, a lot of regularfolks out there. I think I'm right
(18:00):
when I say that I don't thinkthere's going to be a whole you know
crush of Republicans coming out to publiclyendorse Biden, and I would ask you
why is that? Because you andI both know that you are not alone
in what you believe and how youthink. Why aren't the others coming forward?
There's no short term incentives for beinghonest with the voters at this point
(18:22):
in calling balls and strikes for aRepublican elected official to do what I've done,
step up and say, hey,look, this is an honest evaluation
of what's going on. Donald Trump'swrong for the future of the party,
and Joe Biden is a Democrat.But I'm willing to go that direction.
There's no short term incentives. Butwe're not going to ever fix this if
we're looking right one inch in frontof our face and just trying to win
(18:44):
the next election. Right, That'show we got here. We got here
with a series of cuts every twoyears. We've watered down our expectations of
somebody actually leading us. And sothat's why I just feel like, to
your point, yeah, I don't. I don't expect this long list of
elected leaders to start coming off theshelf and being like that. Jeff Duncan
was right, I'm gonna follow hislead. What I do, Hey,
(19:06):
Jeff, Yeah, that's right,that's right. But when I do think
and actually starting to confirm is inthe two weeks I've done this, I
mean, it's one hundred to onethe ratio of people in my community,
whether it's at my kid's games orat my kids graduation, or pick up
the phone or handwrite a letter andsend it to me. The one hundred
to one of saying hey, wayto be honest, or Hey, I'm
(19:26):
not with you, but I appreciateyour courage to say the right thing,
or hey, I'm actually tracking inthat direction. As a Republican, I'm
starting to think that might be thebest effort. Because if we hired a
bunch of really expensive consultants to say, solve the problem of fixing the Republican
Party, they would say, well, problem number one is Donald Trump,
and the faster you get rid ofthem, the quicker you can rebuild,
no matter what you have to doto beat them, beat them. And
(19:48):
that's what I'm doing. I'm acceleratingto fix it stage and trying to beat
Donald Trump as quickly as I possiblycan and eliminate the shrapnel. Well,
speaking of shrapnel, Donald Trump hasspent the last several weeks in sitting in
a courtroom in Manhattan with There areno cameras in that courtroom, but there
is an extraordinary amount of reporting comingout of it, really minute by minute
(20:11):
sometimes, you know, including whetheror not Trump's eyes are closed, is
he asleep? Is he thinking?You know, Stormy Daniels, the company
accountant, Michael Cohen is just wrappingup his cross examination. I believe today
there's been a lot you references alittle while ago just I want to say
(20:32):
unpleasant, but that is so notstrong enough a word, right, some
really dirty, yucky stuff that isbeing spoken about, and not just the
affair and the relationship with Stormy Daniels. You know, we've learned a lot
about what was just kind of businessas usual behind the scenes in Trump organization
and in the Trump campaign. Andthe more I think about it, I
(20:53):
start to wonder how much of whatwas business as usual there? Business as
usual in a lot of places thatjust don't get the same, you know,
the same kind of attention that thisis getting because of because of Donald
Trump. What is coming out ofthat from your perspective, what's coming out
of that that trial? As faras Is it undermining Trump? Is it
(21:15):
making him stronger with his base?How is it impacting the way the general
American voter is thinking about this election. Do you think it's going to actually
move the needle for or against DonaldTrump in the long run or is it
just everyone looking at it going youknow, big surprise. Donald Trump is
is not a great guy. Sotwo things are disgusting to me. One,
(21:37):
the actual raw information coming out isdisgusting right now, how this guy
operated, how he was so sneaky. You know, he talks about election
interference, I mean hiding this,this those details from America was was election
and interference one on one. ButI think what's more disgusting is is nonchalant
embrace of all of it. Right, It's like, hey, it's just
(21:57):
business as usual how people operate,even down to the point where it's obvious,
Like nobody in the world is disputingwhether or not he actually had this
inappropriate relationship with a porn star.But him, he's still in denying it,
right, nobody's inside it. Themaga world is holding him accountable.
It's like, what else is helying about? Where else is he?
(22:18):
You know, maybe we should applythis same thinking to the election conspiracy theories
that he's talked about. And that'sthe part that no matter what happens this,
I'm going to call him thirty tothirty five percent of the of the
MAGA c you know, the crowdthat supports him. He could do anything
and they would support him. Andthat's not that shouldn't be a litmus test
on who we pick as a leader. And this is just going to continue
(22:42):
to roll out and roll out androll out. The next trial will come
online, the next grueling detail,the next expose of just poor decision making.
You know, I often refer tohim as having no moral compass.
I've even called him an axe youknow, he's got the moral compass of
an axe murderer. He really trulydoes, like there is no nothing below
his you know, his his hismorality, and I just don't ever my
(23:07):
life is life. Experience has neverbeen leaders that are worthy to follow,
ever fit into that category. Theyjust will take you to the right spot
on the big decisions. You say, no moral compass, and we know
if people look up the definition ofsociopath, he's he's just not far off
of it. You think about thethings that we've learned over the years about
(23:29):
about serial killers. And I'm notsuggesting that Donald Trump is a serial killer.
Everybody take a breath. But themindset, the decision making trees that
they go, that they use,you know, the he truly it continues,
I guess to It continues to surpriseme to this day that he was
elected to begin with, that thatmy party that I felt so deeply about,
(23:51):
you know, Abraham Lincoln, andforward from there on. Our principal
is that we ever nominated him,we're elected him to begin with. And
let's right, go ahead. It'sinteresting, Yeah, just just to play
on that. Jerry Seinfeld, thepolicy expert himself, Jerry Seinfeld gave the
Duke commencement, addressed and dealt withsome of the Palacinian protest stuff. But
(24:11):
he made an interesting point listening toit. He said, you know,
this is like opposite world. Thethings we should be embarrassed about, we're
proud about. The things we shouldbe proud about were embarrassed about. Right
And there's never been such a morepoignant moment in time inside the Republican Party
where that that is, that's likethe operating motto that we have right now.
Right, Donald Trump's re election campaigntook off when he got mug shotted
(24:33):
for like, you know, seventeenfelonies, which I know a majority of
them in my opinion, in myinteractions, actually happened, right Like,
I mean, he was, hewas from Georgia, lieutenant governor of Georgia.
You do have knowledge about a lotof this. Yeah, So then
he gets a mug shot and wereward that. Right, take ten years
(24:56):
ago, twenty years ago. Ifa president or a CEO of a com
or anybody gets mugshotted for all ofthese felonies, it's like instant doomsday,
right, you know, four hundredor eighty million dollars settlements for sexual harassment
or whatever the final verdict was inthe Eging Carol case, Right like those
used to be death nails for anybodythat was in political office or any sort
(25:18):
of public facing office. The thingswe should be embarrassed about were now proud
about. Things we're proud about weshould be embarrassed about. And that is
the operating the m of the GOPright now. And it wasn't just politics,
I mean, and I think it'sstill today. You know, the
chairman of a major organization gets introuble for something like that, they're out.
You know, people in education,they get in trouble for something like
(25:41):
that, they're out. It's onlyin politics that we seem to accept from
our leaders the things that we wouldnever tolerate in our personal lives, that
we would never tolerate from our husbandsor our wives, or our bosses or
whatever. And I find that tobe discouraging. That's something we really that
I feel like as a nation,we have to think about more. So
(26:03):
let's wrap up with this thought lookingforward. Now we're in the middle of
May. The election is going tobe not very long. To me,
it feels like not that long offit's in November. So what are you
going to be? You know,we've referenced you used a different phrase,
but we reference like persuadable Republicans,people who you know, said I'm leaning
toward where you're headed With all ofthis. We know there are a lot
(26:25):
of independent voters out there that youknow, traditionally could possibly go either way.
What are you going to do now? As a you know, a
nationally recognized name now and you've endorsedthe guy from across the aisle, what
are you going to do? Tohelp make sure that the outcome is correct,
that Trump is defeated, and thatBiden has the supporting needs. I
(26:48):
don't know what everybody thinks, youknow, whether it's five percent, ten
percent. He needs those persuadable Republicansto show up. So what is your
action going to be? Yeah,I stumbled into this analogy a couple of
days ago on a television interview,and it's about providing air cover. I
think my job feels like right nowis to provide air cover for the tens
of millions of Republicans that want tocontinue to remain Republicans like I do,
(27:11):
that believe in conservative principles, butthat are willing to take the risk of
not voting for a Republican because thelong range vision of fixing the party slash
the country means we got to beatDonald Trump right square in his tracks.
And if that means voting for JoeBiden and doing all we can do to
work with him to move his policiestowards the middle, then so be it.
That to me feels like an easierriddle to solve than trying to un
(27:34):
weaponize Donald Trump and the MAGA wingof the Republican party, which just seems
dead set on complete scorge to Earthpolicy destruction. And so that's what I'm
doing. I'm going to try toprovide as much air cover, whether it
be opinion pieces that catch fire andkind of run coast to coast, it's
interviews that I do on TV,it's podcast like this that allow me to
share my message and give some folkssome air cover and to give them some
(27:56):
pause. It says, you knowwhat, it's actually been sitting on the
edge of my brain for a coupleof months to just change my vote because
it just, you know what,he is, right, A decent person
is a better narrative than somebody likeDonald Trump. And I'm just going to
go do it and work with mycolleagues and the best of my ability to
try to change where we're at withthe policies. I love it, and
(28:18):
I think that's the most encouraging thingthat we can say to people. It's
like, just do it. Andone of the things I used to back
in twenty twenty, one of thethings I was involved with was talking to
persuadable Republicans and one of the thingsyou would say is you don't have to
discuss it with the whole world.You don't have to tell everybody who you
voted for. You don't have tobe the person that goes out there and
publicly takes the fight to the streets. If you don't want to, just
(28:41):
do it. Just show up andbe the person who votes for Biden because
you know it's the right thing todo. And I think having more people
like you out there providing air covermakes that message a lot more palatable to
a lot more people. So Ithank you for what you're doing, and
I thank you for being here withus on the show today. Folks you're
listening to Is it just me orhave we all lost our minds? I
(29:03):
am grateful for you tuning in,for everyone being part of what I think
is an incredibly important effort this year, the preservation of democracy and I would
say decency in politics. Thanks verymuch to our friend Jeff Duncan. Thank
you, Thank you,
Is it just me? Or havewe all lost our minds? It's a
question I've been asking myself on repeatfor the last eight years, and I
know I'm not alone in that.Is it the politics, is it the
culture? Or am I just gettingold? Hi? I'm Jennifer Horn and
I'm a former Republican strategist and partyleader turned independent sanity activist. I decided
(00:24):
to do this podcast so we couldexplore these questions. I'll bring experts to
the table from politics and media andculture. We'll have raw, insightful conversations
with the clear goal of getting tothe bottom of it all. One way
or another. We've all lost ourminds, and I hope you'll join us
on the journey to find them again. Hi, this is Jennifer Horn and
(00:48):
you're listening to Is it just me? Or have we all lost our minds?
And I have to say I'm waitingfor the day when I make that
introduction and I can say, no, I don't think I've lost my mind.
It's always something. And we've gota great guest joining that particular part
of the conversation with us today.He's been here before. You all know
who he is. Jeff Duncan isthe former lieutenant governor of Georgia. He
(01:11):
has authored a really insightful book.By the way, we talked about this
last summer, but if you haven'tgotten it, I recommend it GOP two
point zero. He's a contributor atCNN, and just recently, just in
the last week or two, thisformer Republican lieutenant governor of Georgia endorsed sitting
(01:33):
Democratic President Joe Biden for president.It's great to have you back with us,
Jeff, thank you so much.Absolutely glad to be here. And
that was quite a warm up toa great conversation. So good, I
hope. So we're all about heregreat conversations. So I've read your endorsement
of Joe Biden a couple of times, and I just said to you off
(01:53):
the air, you know, thelast time we talked, you weren't really
quite there yet where you thought youwould be endorsing Democrats, but you were
very You've always been very clear Ithink about how you feel about Donald Trump.
And one of the lines that kindof stuck with me in your endorsement,
and it was early on in thefirst two or three paragraphs where you
said conservatives not angry conservative but notangry Republicans are left with no choice but
(02:20):
to pull the lever for Joe Biden. And you talked about that last time
we were together. The difference betweenbeing an angry person, you know,
being an angry Republican or not beingangry. It's an important distinction to you,
and I would love to start withyou just explain to me why that
distinction is so important and then maybelead into what is it that has led
you to decide not just to votefor Biden, but to publicly endorse him.
(02:45):
That's a whole different step. Yeah. I think there's two separate factions
of the Republican Party that are reallystarting to poke their heads up and become
evident. One is the group thatI'm in, and that's just folks who
are a conservative that we believe conservativeanswers to policy questions are really the best
leaning ways to go right, whetherit's fiscal policy, social policies, governing
(03:07):
policies, foreign policy. I'm abig fan of conservatism. But then there's
this other quadrant that Donald Trump seemsto obviously be the chief spokesman for,
and that's his angry crowd. Theyreally can't articulate for you any sort of
conservative strategies to go forward to kindof fix inflationary issues, border control issues,
foreign policy, monetary issues. Theyjust are angry. And to me,
(03:29):
that's the chaos and confusion that DonaldTrump continues to stoke. And so
unfortunately, we've in the just levelheaded, non angry conservative crowd have been
outnumbered in the past few elections,and certainly in this one in the primary,
but we're not outnumbered nationally. Ithink that's important to kind of look
at since twenty sixteen, that brandof conservatives, which are angry and not
(03:52):
very articulate, keep getting beat.And they not only get beat at the
president level, they got beat inthe US House. We're supposed to have
massively, you know, raging majoritiesin the House, but they picked a
cast of characters that were angry,angry and loud. They were certainly good
at that, and of course welost the majorities, and so it just
continues on and on and on.I think for certain we'll lose again.
(04:14):
The Republican Party will lose no matterwhat happens in this election. Right if
Trump is the nominee and then ultimatelywins the election, we're gonna watch the
brand of Republicans get destroyed whatever's leftof it, because Donald Trump will run
it in the ground or as acard carrying conservative. You've got Joe Biden,
who obviously is not a card carryingconservative, and so we just have
(04:34):
to work with the best of ourabilities to try to try to change the
trajectory of his administration. But kindof going back to your second part of
the question was, yeah, Ididn't get here lightly as a lifelong Republican.
You know, I certainly have triedeverything I could possibly do other than
endorsing Joe Biden. Right. Isupported Nikki Haley, I wrote her a
(04:56):
check, I campaigned for I saidas many nice things as I could.
I told all my friends about it. I shared social media posts that obviously
didn't work. Then I even entertainedthe idea of running as a New Labels
candidate for president. I spent twoor three weeks of my life traveling the
country, meeting, you know,my family, meeting with people, trying
to understand was there a pathway tovictory there? And the answer that I
(05:17):
came up with was no. Andso now I've got this criminal defendant with
no moral compass and I've got somebodyI disagree with on policies on the other
side, but is a decent humanAnd my heart is angling towards I think
a decent human is a best isa better of the two selections, And
I'm going to go work to thebest of my abilities to try to soften
and you know, marginalize some ofthe far left leaning policies of the Biden
(05:43):
administration and try to work with themas much as I possibly can. And
you know, I just think that'sthe best place for us to be to
give us the time we need asRepublicans for the next four years after the
election to actually go do the workto find a leader, to find a
message, to find policies that wecan actually lean into, and try to
try to rebuild this party from theground up. Well, you just said
(06:08):
something I want to get into alittle bit of that, This about the
Republican Party and going forward and howI still say we I you know,
to be clear, I'm an independentnow. I left the party in twenty
twenty and I'm registered independent. Butyou just used a couple of words that
I've used for for as long asI've been in politics. Before Trump was
part of the conversation a decency,and I think you said about Trump,
(06:31):
no moral compass. I grew upin upstate New York with Donald Trump on
the front page of the tabloids everytime I went to the grocery store with
my mother, you know, Andso when he got into the political world,
I knew who Donald Trump was andthere was no way I was ever
going to endorse him or support himin any manner. And a lot of
people who thought I was wrong thenhave come to that same position. And
(06:55):
you know a lot of people whoall I was wrong men and still think
I'm wrong. I don't care aboutthat part of it. But what I
do care about are those two wordsthat those two phrases you just use,
no moral compass and decency. Isthat really what's at the heart of where
the the problems in politics are today? Where you know where the differences are
coming together or where the divisions arecoming together. Do we have a growing
(07:19):
population of Americans who don't value decencyor don't expect decency in their politicians anymore.
Yeah? Absolutely, I mean that'sthe heart of the problem. I
think both sides of the isle wouldpoint to that. In that is long.
A win is a win is awin in some people's minds. But
really, truly, what makes thiscountry unique, what makes you know,
(07:42):
us special, is that we havewe have a history of electing great leaders
that understand how to build consensus,that under understand how to solve world problems,
economic problems, social issues. Andyou know, it feels as though
our country continues to lose its way. I've been quoted a million times as
calling Donald Trump a fake Republican becauseas a as a card carrying, lifelong
(08:05):
Republican, I can say that becauseI'm honestly looking at the facts. We
just wanted a win. So DonaldTrump was an overnight, you know,
success inside the Republican Party because hewas you know, all those things right.
I took the bait right. Justjust for the record, I took
the bait too, of course,not he was the last I think he
was the seventeenth Republican that I finallygot behind. But shame on me,
(08:28):
I ended up getting behind him earlyin his presidency. But a win is
so important that we'll just cast allof the Republican principles at the door.
He printed eight trillion dollars worth themoney we didn't have. That's not a
conservative principle. He told us hewas going to secure the border. His
rhetoric was extremely strong, and Igive him credit for the rhetoric actually proved
to us. He made South Americascared to death to migrate north and didn't
(08:52):
build a wall. He built aselfie station, right. He built Republican
politicians to show up and talk aboutit. Joe Biden comes in and basically
tell us the southern hemisphere, Hey, we're open for business, come on
up, and they did by themillions. And that's really the influx that
we've created. There's more work tobe done on the border, regardless of
who the president is. COVID right, We act like Donald Trump got COVID
(09:15):
right, He didn't. Ryan kempI and several others in the state opened
Georgia back up and got berated forit by Donald Trump because he was listening
Anthony Fauci and others. There's betterways to be a Republican than Donald Trump.
And we've just given him a hallpass because he's created this cult following
that has confused chaos and anger withconservatism, and they're two totally separate subjects,
(09:39):
and it does seem and I likethat you keep going back to the
anger part. At least beak.It does seem that people like ourselves wherever
each of us are here on theanti Trump side of the line, it's
become very difficult to have this conversationwith others with out the anger exploding.
(10:01):
And as I think about it andlook back, it's not just the last
couple of years, it's not justsince January sixth, and that's always been
what Trump has used as his fuelfor the fire. I guess, you
know, he's figured out how toidentify and magnify the anger. Joe Biden,
on the other hand, is definitelyI don't want to say he's soft
(10:22):
or soft spoken. He's you know, he's clearly a tough guy. He's
and he's made it to the presidency. But he has a very different approach.
He doesn't care about numbers, hedoesn't care about these big rallies.
He doesn't campaign the same way.He doesn't try I've never seen him at
least where I thought he was tryingto intentionally stoke anger as a way to
(10:43):
motivate people. How do how dothose two how do they match up head
to head as candidates, and whatdoes Joe Biden have that's going to be
able to sort of overcome. Imean, the anger thing has worked for
Trump. He won with the angerthing. Now of course he lost with
it. But I guess kind ofcompare them as candidates and are as leaders
(11:05):
and these different tones that they had, these different demeanors that they bring to
the table to thee Both candidates Bidenand Trump have more headwinds than they have
tailwinds. Okay, I've ad nauseumtalked about Donald Trump and all the shortcomings.
I mean, just just to knowthat you got to turn on the
TV and listen to this horrific personalpersonal story play out of porn stars and
(11:30):
fake hush money payments and affairs andbankruptcies and crooked deals like that. That's
hard to listen to it and actuallyexpect somebody to be a good leader.
The headwinds for Joe Biden is he'sway further left than I am. I
think he's way further left than thecountry. Is. Part of that is
because he had to make a politicalcalculus, you know, calculation that he
needed those votes to become president,and so you know, those those policies
(11:52):
are far left, and also hisage right, I would say it if
he was sitting here. He isolder than what I would expect an average
leader of the most powerful, importantcountry in the world to face the toughest
decisions of the day. But eitherway, we've got to pick one or
the other. For me, justgravitated towards the decent humans going to make
better decisions. The decent human isgoing to do what you're asking or what
(12:15):
you just highlighted, and that wasto have cordial conversations with people you disagree
with. I actually got to experiencethat. I wrote my opinion piece a
couple of weeks ago, and nextthing, you know, I get a
phone call from President Biden and wehad a great discussion. We had a
discussion about how do we you know, yes, we disagree on a lot,
but we do agree Donald Trump's dangerousfor the country. And I also
(12:35):
had, you know, an openconversation that I would like to lean into
some of those policies dragged his administrationback more towards the middle than the far
left. I just think that's amore workable, palatable solution for this country
and the times that we face heretoday, which are global conflict, in
every region of the world. Aneconomic you know, I feel like every
(12:56):
the economy's never been so good asfar as the numbers, but never been
so poorly as to people's you know, perception of it, right, that
there's a divide there of epic proportionin really both administrations are are are to
blame for Donald Trump printed eight trilliondollars worth the money we don't have.
Joe Biden continued to put coal onthe fire that we didn't have in the
(13:18):
tune of you know, upwards ofnine trillion dollars. All of that put
together has created an inflationary environment thatreally feels uncomfortable, not just from a
from a dollars and cents standpoint,not just from a paycheck standpoint, but
from a we're all smart enough toknow our houses probably shouldn't be worth as
much as they're worth today. Brockleyshouldn't be as much as it's worth today,
Gasoline, all of that, itshouldn't be worth as much as it
(13:41):
is today, but it is,and so that's created this uncomfortable angst amongst
all of us. That's a goodpoint. And the way you just laid
it out, like we all know, looking at because I keep looking at
it thinking, you know, oneof the lines that Biden uses is that
we have the best post COVID recoveryeconomy in the world. And he's right,
but people who look in our countrydon't feel it. And you just
(14:01):
made that point very you know,succinctly, and when it is the idea
like we know that our houses.I think that's a great point, you
know, especially for those of uswho live in you know, cute little
cottages in a nice little neighborhood,and suddenly the price tag for that feels
insane, feels insane. For mydaughter, she talks all the time about
(14:22):
the grocery store, like, eventhough some of the prices have gone down,
she can't get over what she's spendingat the grocery store. So how
do we communicate with voters, withcitizens when that's the overwhelming feeling? The
truth that our economy is not asbad as it feels to all of us
(14:43):
on election day doesn't matter, doesit. It doesn't matter what that truth
is on election day. It matterswhat it feels like to the people who
are casting their ballots. How doyou the economy, I think is the
hardest thing to convince people that whatthey feel might not be accurate. Yes,
to your point, it's hard foranybody to justify the economy right now.
(15:03):
Whether you're sitting in a house that'sworth two and a half times which
you paid for it a few yearsago, whether you're sitting on a plethora
of four oh one K cash thatis absolutely skyrocketed, or you're just simply
walking in the grocery store every twodays and trying to buy, you know,
enough food to feed your three orfour person family. Nobody can justify
the economy right now. And that'sa sign of really a symptom of seventeen
(15:26):
eighteen, nineteen twenty trillion dollars worthof money just showing up out of nowhere
to try to stimulate through COVID,which turned out to be a hiccup and
not the flu. And then also, you know, even before that,
an accelerated multi decade period of timewhere we had low to zero percent interest
rates, all because nobody wanted tofall on the sword as a president and
(15:50):
you know, be in charge whenthere was a recession. Economy's ebb and
flow. But all that to besaid, the voters just are looking at
a snapshot in time, and forme, that snapshot in time is starting
to fade. For Donald Trump,I mean, we've proven him to be
a loser. We've proven this brandto be a loser, We've proven his
strategies to be a loser. Ithink there's going to be tens of millions
(16:12):
of Republicans or former Republicans or independentsthat just show up on election Day in
November and they're like, you knowwhat, a lot like that, Jeff
Duncan, guy, I'm going tovote for a decent person over that,
and just hope that this all goesbetter than it is right now. I
really truly think that's where we're going, and both parties will wake up from
(16:33):
this twenty twenty eight. I hopewe have the most talent rich election on
both sides of the isle we've everhad. I hope young, energetic leaders
that have vision and strategy and passionand connectivity with the voters show up on
both sides of the isle and demandthat Americans pay attention to real leaders and
(16:55):
not just folks that show up becausethey win. You know, a couple
of straw polls in a couple ofimportant I am with you. I've said
that many times one hundred percent.The other thing is I have faith in
the people, and I think you'reThat's part of what you're saying now too.
This is one of the things Iget the most pushback on social media.
I say, like, how canyou be optimistic? Or what makes
(17:15):
you think this? Like, Igenuinely have faith in the people. I
think that when folks like you,who are elected leaders, who have some
you know, some gravitas, comeforward and can speak in a patriotic and
optimistic manner about the future to peoplewho feel stuck in what feels like a
very destructive present, I think thatI think that makes a difference. I
(17:38):
was asked on one of the interviewsI gave after you endorsed right, and
did I think it was going toopen the door to a whole bunch more
elective Republicans doing the same thing.And I said, no, I don't
think that it will. But Ithink that when you do it, that
it makes that it opens the mindsand the hearts of a lot of voters
out there, a lot of regularfolks out there. I think I'm right
(18:00):
when I say that I don't thinkthere's going to be a whole you know
crush of Republicans coming out to publiclyendorse Biden, and I would ask you
why is that? Because you andI both know that you are not alone
in what you believe and how youthink. Why aren't the others coming forward?
There's no short term incentives for beinghonest with the voters at this point
(18:22):
in calling balls and strikes for aRepublican elected official to do what I've done,
step up and say, hey,look, this is an honest evaluation
of what's going on. Donald Trump'swrong for the future of the party,
and Joe Biden is a Democrat.But I'm willing to go that direction.
There's no short term incentives. Butwe're not going to ever fix this if
we're looking right one inch in frontof our face and just trying to win
(18:44):
the next election. Right, That'show we got here. We got here
with a series of cuts every twoyears. We've watered down our expectations of
somebody actually leading us. And sothat's why I just feel like, to
your point, yeah, I don't. I don't expect this long list of
elected leaders to start coming off theshelf and being like that. Jeff Duncan
was right, I'm gonna follow hislead. What I do, Hey,
(19:06):
Jeff, Yeah, that's right,that's right. But when I do think
and actually starting to confirm is inthe two weeks I've done this, I
mean, it's one hundred to onethe ratio of people in my community,
whether it's at my kid's games orat my kids graduation, or pick up
the phone or handwrite a letter andsend it to me. The one hundred
to one of saying hey, wayto be honest, or Hey, I'm
(19:26):
not with you, but I appreciateyour courage to say the right thing,
or hey, I'm actually tracking inthat direction. As a Republican, I'm
starting to think that might be thebest effort. Because if we hired a
bunch of really expensive consultants to say, solve the problem of fixing the Republican
Party, they would say, well, problem number one is Donald Trump,
and the faster you get rid ofthem, the quicker you can rebuild,
no matter what you have to doto beat them, beat them. And
(19:48):
that's what I'm doing. I'm acceleratingto fix it stage and trying to beat
Donald Trump as quickly as I possiblycan and eliminate the shrapnel. Well,
speaking of shrapnel, Donald Trump hasspent the last several weeks in sitting in
a courtroom in Manhattan with There areno cameras in that courtroom, but there
is an extraordinary amount of reporting comingout of it, really minute by minute
(20:11):
sometimes, you know, including whetheror not Trump's eyes are closed, is
he asleep? Is he thinking?You know, Stormy Daniels, the company
accountant, Michael Cohen is just wrappingup his cross examination. I believe today
there's been a lot you references alittle while ago just I want to say
(20:32):
unpleasant, but that is so notstrong enough a word, right, some
really dirty, yucky stuff that isbeing spoken about, and not just the
affair and the relationship with Stormy Daniels. You know, we've learned a lot
about what was just kind of businessas usual behind the scenes in Trump organization
and in the Trump campaign. Andthe more I think about it, I
(20:53):
start to wonder how much of whatwas business as usual there? Business as
usual in a lot of places thatjust don't get the same, you know,
the same kind of attention that thisis getting because of because of Donald
Trump. What is coming out ofthat from your perspective, what's coming out
of that that trial? As faras Is it undermining Trump? Is it
(21:15):
making him stronger with his base?How is it impacting the way the general
American voter is thinking about this election. Do you think it's going to actually
move the needle for or against DonaldTrump in the long run or is it
just everyone looking at it going youknow, big surprise. Donald Trump is
is not a great guy. Sotwo things are disgusting to me. One,
(21:37):
the actual raw information coming out isdisgusting right now, how this guy
operated, how he was so sneaky. You know, he talks about election
interference, I mean hiding this,this those details from America was was election
and interference one on one. ButI think what's more disgusting is is nonchalant
embrace of all of it. Right, It's like, hey, it's just
(21:57):
business as usual how people operate,even down to the point where it's obvious,
Like nobody in the world is disputingwhether or not he actually had this
inappropriate relationship with a porn star.But him, he's still in denying it,
right, nobody's inside it. Themaga world is holding him accountable.
It's like, what else is helying about? Where else is he?
(22:18):
You know, maybe we should applythis same thinking to the election conspiracy theories
that he's talked about. And that'sthe part that no matter what happens this,
I'm going to call him thirty tothirty five percent of the of the
MAGA c you know, the crowdthat supports him. He could do anything
and they would support him. Andthat's not that shouldn't be a litmus test
on who we pick as a leader. And this is just going to continue
(22:42):
to roll out and roll out androll out. The next trial will come
online, the next grueling detail,the next expose of just poor decision making.
You know, I often refer tohim as having no moral compass.
I've even called him an axe youknow, he's got the moral compass of
an axe murderer. He really trulydoes, like there is no nothing below
his you know, his his hismorality, and I just don't ever my
(23:07):
life is life. Experience has neverbeen leaders that are worthy to follow,
ever fit into that category. Theyjust will take you to the right spot
on the big decisions. You say, no moral compass, and we know
if people look up the definition ofsociopath, he's he's just not far off
of it. You think about thethings that we've learned over the years about
(23:29):
about serial killers. And I'm notsuggesting that Donald Trump is a serial killer.
Everybody take a breath. But themindset, the decision making trees that
they go, that they use,you know, the he truly it continues,
I guess to It continues to surpriseme to this day that he was
elected to begin with, that thatmy party that I felt so deeply about,
(23:51):
you know, Abraham Lincoln, andforward from there on. Our principal
is that we ever nominated him,we're elected him to begin with. And
let's right, go ahead. It'sinteresting, Yeah, just just to play
on that. Jerry Seinfeld, thepolicy expert himself, Jerry Seinfeld gave the
Duke commencement, addressed and dealt withsome of the Palacinian protest stuff. But
(24:11):
he made an interesting point listening toit. He said, you know,
this is like opposite world. Thethings we should be embarrassed about, we're
proud about. The things we shouldbe proud about were embarrassed about. Right
And there's never been such a morepoignant moment in time inside the Republican Party
where that that is, that's likethe operating motto that we have right now.
Right, Donald Trump's re election campaigntook off when he got mug shotted
(24:33):
for like, you know, seventeenfelonies, which I know a majority of
them in my opinion, in myinteractions, actually happened, right Like,
I mean, he was, hewas from Georgia, lieutenant governor of Georgia.
You do have knowledge about a lotof this. Yeah, So then
he gets a mug shot and wereward that. Right, take ten years
(24:56):
ago, twenty years ago. Ifa president or a CEO of a com
or anybody gets mugshotted for all ofthese felonies, it's like instant doomsday,
right, you know, four hundredor eighty million dollars settlements for sexual harassment
or whatever the final verdict was inthe Eging Carol case, Right like those
used to be death nails for anybodythat was in political office or any sort
(25:18):
of public facing office. The thingswe should be embarrassed about were now proud
about. Things we're proud about weshould be embarrassed about. And that is
the operating the m of the GOPright now. And it wasn't just politics,
I mean, and I think it'sstill today. You know, the
chairman of a major organization gets introuble for something like that, they're out.
You know, people in education,they get in trouble for something like
(25:41):
that, they're out. It's onlyin politics that we seem to accept from
our leaders the things that we wouldnever tolerate in our personal lives, that
we would never tolerate from our husbandsor our wives, or our bosses or
whatever. And I find that tobe discouraging. That's something we really that
I feel like as a nation,we have to think about more. So
(26:03):
let's wrap up with this thought lookingforward. Now we're in the middle of
May. The election is going tobe not very long. To me,
it feels like not that long offit's in November. So what are you
going to be? You know,we've referenced you used a different phrase,
but we reference like persuadable Republicans,people who you know, said I'm leaning
toward where you're headed With all ofthis. We know there are a lot
(26:25):
of independent voters out there that youknow, traditionally could possibly go either way.
What are you going to do now? As a you know, a
nationally recognized name now and you've endorsedthe guy from across the aisle, what
are you going to do? Tohelp make sure that the outcome is correct,
that Trump is defeated, and thatBiden has the supporting needs. I
(26:48):
don't know what everybody thinks, youknow, whether it's five percent, ten
percent. He needs those persuadable Republicansto show up. So what is your
action going to be? Yeah,I stumbled into this analogy a couple of
days ago on a television interview,and it's about providing air cover. I
think my job feels like right nowis to provide air cover for the tens
of millions of Republicans that want tocontinue to remain Republicans like I do,
(27:11):
that believe in conservative principles, butthat are willing to take the risk of
not voting for a Republican because thelong range vision of fixing the party slash
the country means we got to beatDonald Trump right square in his tracks.
And if that means voting for JoeBiden and doing all we can do to
work with him to move his policiestowards the middle, then so be it.
That to me feels like an easierriddle to solve than trying to un
(27:34):
weaponize Donald Trump and the MAGA wingof the Republican party, which just seems
dead set on complete scorge to Earthpolicy destruction. And so that's what I'm
doing. I'm going to try toprovide as much air cover, whether it
be opinion pieces that catch fire andkind of run coast to coast, it's
interviews that I do on TV,it's podcast like this that allow me to
share my message and give some folkssome air cover and to give them some
(27:56):
pause. It says, you knowwhat, it's actually been sitting on the
edge of my brain for a coupleof months to just change my vote because
it just, you know what,he is, right, A decent person
is a better narrative than somebody likeDonald Trump. And I'm just going to
go do it and work with mycolleagues and the best of my ability to
try to change where we're at withthe policies. I love it, and
(28:18):
I think that's the most encouraging thingthat we can say to people. It's
like, just do it. Andone of the things I used to back
in twenty twenty, one of thethings I was involved with was talking to
persuadable Republicans and one of the thingsyou would say is you don't have to
discuss it with the whole world.You don't have to tell everybody who you
voted for. You don't have tobe the person that goes out there and
publicly takes the fight to the streets. If you don't want to, just
(28:41):
do it. Just show up andbe the person who votes for Biden because
you know it's the right thing todo. And I think having more people
like you out there providing air covermakes that message a lot more palatable to
a lot more people. So Ithank you for what you're doing, and
I thank you for being here withus on the show today. Folks you're
listening to Is it just me orhave we all lost our minds? I
(29:03):
am grateful for you tuning in,for everyone being part of what I think
is an incredibly important effort this year, the preservation of democracy and I would
say decency in politics. Thanks verymuch to our friend Jeff Duncan. Thank
you, Thank you,
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