April 25, 2024 • 46 mins
Women voters are less of a monolith than ever before. They make up 53% of the overall turnout which means you have to win women if you're going to win. So how does that impact the Biden and Trump campaigns? Longtime Political strategist and founder of Zelt Communications, Lauren Zelt joins for a lively conversation on what women want when it comes to presidential politics.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:03):
Hi, this is Jennifer Horn,your host at Is it just me or
have we all lost our minds.I'm very excited to have our next guest
with us today. This is thefirst time she's joined us on the podcast,
and she's here to talk about somethingthat I think is going to be
a critically impactful influence on the electionthis year, and that of course,
(00:25):
is women voters. It occurred tome as I was putting some notes together
over the weekend that we've had alot of people on the show to talk
about it, but no women,and you would be surprised, and we
should talk to our guests about this. You'll be surprised how hard it is
to find women who are fully engagedin the political arena in a professional in
a professional manner of any kind.Our guest today is the founder of Zelt
(00:51):
Communications. She is a longtime politicalcommunications consultant, done a ton of work
on the right side of the aisle, which is how I know her,
known each other for almost ten yearsnow, which is hard for me to
believe. I am very pleased tohave my friend and smart political lady Lauren's
Delt with us today. Hey,Lauren, thank you so much. For
(01:11):
joining us. Hey, Jennifer,thank you so much for having me.
It's great to be here. Itis great to have you here. It
blows my mind when I think backhow far, how long you and I
have known each other, and howfar we have both come in different ways
since then, and just the degreeto which my you know, we I,
(01:32):
at least I won't speak for youhave changed in how I see politics
and what I believe about, whatis good and bad and strong and weak
about the political system and things likethat. You and I have known each
other all the way back to whenI became chairman in New Hampshire, which
is wild for me to think about. Wild. Yeah, we were together
(01:53):
the last sane election cycle in twentyfourteen before things got weird. Did that
together, had a lot of funup in new Hamshore in twenty fourteen,
and you are a great party chairman, by the way, and I still
think, you know, I stilllook back on those days very fondly.
So I do too, I reallydo too. And even though my thoughts
(02:14):
about the Republican Party, the Republicanplatform, the principles, how the party
lives, principles today, things likethat have changed dramatically I'm very proud of
what we did. Like you andI were always in it for the right
reasons, trying to do good thingsfor good reasons. And I think there's
still a lot of people like thatin the Republican Party. They just unfortunately
(02:35):
are not the people whose voices arebeing heard. And that's that's an issue.
So yeah, I think that's right. Let's talk a little bit about
voters. You know, first,I just very quickly because I just thought
of it as I was introducing you. You know, it really is difficult
when you look at the list oflike political consultants and campaign managers and operatives
(02:57):
and you know, all the differentplaces is where you know you find employment
or activism in politics, women aregrossly underrepresented. And I can't really I
don't blame men for it. Youknow, for some reason women are just
not seeking this out. Is itjust because most women are smarter and more
(03:19):
sane than you and I and theyknow they know how to live a more
peaceful life? You know? Whatis that? Or is it like you
know, overall you know the sameissues with all sorts of areas that women
have had to sort of fight tocreate a footprint. No, I think
politics is still more of a boy'sclub than most professions. You know,
(03:43):
I've done my work primarily on theconservative side of the isle, so I
can't really speak to the consulting class, you know, around liberal activism and
anything like that. But you know, on the conservative side of the isle,
Yeah, there's not a lot oflady consultants, and especially not a
lot of ones that stick around fora long time. And I think that's,
(04:05):
you know, various I think that'sthere's a variety of reasons for that.
But you know, my business hasbeen around for five years and I
found really proud of that because youknow, for a long, a long
period of time before that, youknow, I worked for a larger firm,
and I just I knew that Iwanted to be somebody that was in
(04:27):
charge in making the decisions. Andso, you know, I don't know
what the reason is really that it'sstill a boys club, but it is
still very much a boys club,for sure, it really is. And
like you, I don't really knowwhat the structure is, you know,
to the left of center and andthe you know, folks who are led
by a more liberal principle as opposedto a more conservative principle, and but
(04:49):
I found my time in political leadershipas chairman and at the r n C
and a lot of other roles thatI played over the to be surprisingly old
boys network, you know, kindof a and it really took me by
surprise because it was the first time. I'm going to be sixty this year.
(05:10):
So when you look back on myyou know, my years in the
workplace that was politics is the onlyplace that I really personally confronted here and
there a little bits, but reallyhad to personally confront that kind of I
want to say chauvinism, but definitelyold boys kind of attitude. And it's
surprising how many women still embrace thatold boy sort of attitude, which is
(05:35):
very weird. But that's probably aconversation for another day. I really want
to talk to you like another daywith a glass of wine and nothing recording
us, right, So I reallywhat I want to talk to you about
is this upcoming election obviously Biden andTrump, and you know where I stand
on all of this and where mycommitment is, where my heart is when
(05:57):
it comes to democracy and a marrorand what kind of world future generations we'll
be living in here, So I'mfully committed to defeating Donald Trump uh in
this cycle. And one of themost you know, hyper focused issues lately,
actually the last several cycles of anyof them, but especially this year,
(06:17):
is women voters. And we alwayssay suburban women voters, but we
shouldn't limit it to just that,in spite of the fact that that's where
we're going to see a lot ofyou know, a tremendous amount of turnout
and influence. But it isn't justwomen. I mean urban women. And
what is what's the phrase they usefor not in the city but not in
the suburbs. There's like an inbetween word that they use. Now,
(06:39):
Oh, yeah, surbin or something. Yeah, that's right. Yeah,
but women, and I to sharea couple of numbers with you to sort
of lay the groundwork here for ourlisteners as well. Women have registered and
turned out in higher numbers than theirmale counterparts for decades. But women have
(07:00):
turned out and hire numbers to votesince nineteen sixty four. I was shocked
by that. I did not.Yeah, of course you're not, because
you know everything about politics. You'rethe you're one of the smart ones.
But that really surprised me. They'refifty three percent of the electorate. They
are fifty nine percent of the Democraticelectorate, which is key this year obviously.
(07:24):
But we had this bad habit.I think when we talk about women
and say we say women voters asif they're this one monolithic thing, and
it's not even close. You know, we can go back to soccer mom,
security moms, somebody for a littlewhile. Alore there's like Facebook moms,
there was, you know, allthese different things. But women,
as each year passes, become morediverse in their interests, in their priorities,
(07:47):
in their profession, and you know, all these different things. I
was just reading something as I wasgetting ready to talk to you, saying
soccer moms doesn't apply anymore, andI said, it's not that mom.
They aren't still moms, or theyaren't still going to a soccer game,
but they're on the phone in thecar on their way to the game,
and they're on a zoom meeting whilethere's you know, sitting in the suns
(08:09):
waiting for the game to start.And you know, it's a different world
than it was back in the daysof Bill Clinton and soccer moms. So
let me just kind of just giveyou sort of a general question to get
us started then and see what yourthoughts are, and we'll see where it
takes us. Talk to me aboutwomen voters in the twenty twenty four election.
Is it accurate to say that theyare going to decide who the next
(08:31):
president of the United States is goingto be? Well? Is that accurate?
Yeah? I mean it just givenI would say that is an accurate
statement, just given the numbers thatwe just talked about and the fact that
women are almost guaranteed to turn outmore than their male counterparts in our society,
(08:52):
I think the question becomes, youknow, I don't think that,
especially for this election cycle, Idon't think that we can look at female
vae voters as a monoliths, asyou discussed, and so I think it's
really important to break down the differentsections of the electorate. And you know,
look, all of us women arevery different, and I think,
you know, the boys club mentalityof politics has been putting us all into
(09:13):
one box for too long. SoI like the premise of you know,
this conversation overall, you know,I'd be happy to touch on some of
the specific issues I think that aregoing to be on voters' minds. This
fall. I mean, the onlyone that I'll put into kind of the
bucket of a monolith is the economy. I think that you know, in
(09:39):
this day and age, I stillthink it's primarily women who are going to
the grocery store, who are managingthe monthly budget, who are you know,
looking at rising insurance costs, whoare looking at you know, rising
health care costs, all these things, And so I do think on the
economy, you know, I thinka lot of women, if they're paying
(10:01):
attention, are at least questioning whetheror not we have the right leadership on
the economic issues themselves. I thinkthe question becomes and I think where this
breaks down into different groups is whatwhere the economic issues lie on the important
scale for different women? And that'show I think it's going to break down.
(10:24):
You know, you're seeing a lotwith Democrats message on you know,
the overturning of Roe versus Waded.We saw that a lot in twenty twenty
two. We're definitely going to seeit again in twenty twenty four. But
I think, you know, I'mnot in the habit of advising Democrats,
but I think that if I was, I would tell them they're making a
bit of a mistake by going allin on the social issues, because at
(10:48):
the end of the day, youknow, every person I talk to,
whether it's the clerk at CBS orthe hostess at the restaurant, everybody is
talking about how much more expensive lifehas gotten, right, And so I
think the question, and where youcan kind of break down into the different
demographic groups within the female voting blockis what kind of a priority do you
(11:11):
place on those issues versus on economicissues, versus what kind of a priority
are you placing on the social issues? And I think that's where we're going
to start to see some of thetrends sort of delineate between the different,
you know, types of women outthere. But you know, I do
think that the economy is something thatI think female voters are at least going
(11:35):
to have in mind when they goto the ballot box. For sure,
the economy is almost almost without exception, number one on the list with any
voter you've talked to, almost withoutexception, right, And that's decades,
for decades and decades, that's beenthe case. So let's just talk about
that issue a little bit before wemove on to the next one. Then
I and I love how you saidit, that you know, everybody's really
(11:56):
concerned about how expensive life is,and life has become clearly, statistically provably
much more expensive. And I thinkthe plagure you commented about women are still
the ones that are doing the groceryshopping, and that seems to be where
we see it most consistently, andthat's for people who have been doing the
grocery shopping every week for the lastten or fifteen or twenty years. You
(12:18):
see it when milk has doubled inprice, and butter has doubled in price,
and bread has doubled in price,and all of those those are all
real numbers. Because I do thegrocery shopping at our house so that I
know that it's doubled. I canremember when I ran for Congress being very
conscientious about the cost of a gallonof milk, because you know, to
be able to say that in aconversation. People want to understand that the
(12:41):
politics of the day feels their painand understands what's important to them. But
so try to let's put ourselves onthe left side here on the Biden side.
When you look at the majority ofthe traditional economic indicators were actually truly
doing fairly well. Wages are increasing, inflation is decreasing a little bit.
(13:07):
You know, employment is unemployment isvery low. You know, employment is
very high, like all these traditionalindicators, but it still feels expensive because
some of those numbers have gone upand they're never going to go back.
You know, we don't pay thesame for a loaf of bread that we
did in nineteen thirty six. Right, So how should somebody like a Joe
(13:28):
Biden or the Democratic Party, howdo they message on that in a way
when people it's not that people aremisinformed. You know, like I said,
milk has you know, gallon ofmilk has doubled in costs. We
know that's real. How do youmessage that or connect to a voter when
that's the case. It's like someof this is it's hard to blame Joe
(13:50):
Biden for that, and he isthere are good things in the economy,
but you know, how so foras a consultant, I guess what's the
mess had done that? Well?I think the biggest mistake that they're making
is that they're not I would sayeveryone from the White House to the President
Biden's re election campaign, they're notacknowledging the strife that people are feeling economically
(14:16):
right now, and so I thinkit would go a long way for the
President to acknowledge you know what,I know, life is a little bit
more expensive. Let me tell youhow we got here, let me tell
you why it is this way,and let me tell you what I'm going
to do to try to ensure thatour economy remains healthy moving forward. Like
(14:37):
at the end of the day,people, that's the way the acknowledgment,
and they're not acknowledging it. Itwas really interesting to me. I was
watching the Today Show during the dayof the Easter egg role and they had
Al Roker there to interview President Bidenand doctor Joe Biden, and even Al
(14:58):
Roker said something along on the linesof, you know, people's Easter budgets
didn't go as far this year.What do you have to say to that?
And the President's response was, well, the United States has the strongest
economy in the world. That mayvery well be true, right, But
he didn't acknowledge the question. Andhe didn't he And from what I'm seeing,
(15:20):
Democrats just aren't acknowledging the economic painthat people are feeling. And I
think it would do them, youknow, a good service to their effort
if they did, because I thinkat the end of the day, if
somebody feels like they've been heard onan issue, they might be more willing
to move on from that issue andconsider some of the other issues that the
(15:43):
Democrats are messaging on. But ifthe Dems don't acknowledge it at all,
I think, I think it's abig mistake for them, I really really
do. Yeah, I agree withyou, and I think that that's you
know, that that's just part ofhumanness, humanity to have your concerns,
especially when it's a concern or afear, you know, but to have
your thoughts and your experience acknowledge andvalidated in some way. I also think
(16:08):
that women need that, not needed, that's the wrong worry. But I
think that they respond to validation evenmore strongly than them, do you know,
And that when a man is notyou know, I don't want to
get real deep into some of theyou know, the psychology of all this,
but the truth is, when aman does not validate a woman's concerns,
(16:30):
that is a much stronger feeling andimpact than if you and I are
chatting you know a couple of femalefriends and I say something and you kind
of miss it, and we keepgoing like it's not the same experience.
And when you have so one ofthe things that has changed so much about
women voters, they are more ofthem are in professions, more of them
have been have college degrees, moreof them are a full time in the
(16:51):
workplace, more of them are thetop way journer in their home. Things
like that. So when they havea male president, ignore what is possibly
their number one concern, even ifit's subconscious, that is going to impact
how they see that individual, whichis going to impact how they vote.
Yeah, I agree with that wholeheartedly. But I would also, you know,
(17:14):
to play devil's advocate. I thinkthat Democrats would come back and say,
okay, fine, but Republicans aren'tacknowledging, you know, the overall
fact that the landscape of abortion politicsin America has fundamentally shifted. Republicans don't
acknowledge that. For women like,I'm a millennial, right, and so
(17:37):
I was born after Rome versus Wadewas decided. So if you're a millennial
woman, it's it's pretty confusing whenthe decided law of the land suddenly is
different. And I think that youknow, I know, Republicans are not
going to acknowledge that there's you know, they're not going to and again,
(17:59):
I think it does them a disservice. I think, you know, it
would do Republicans well to acknowledge,we understand that you have some concerns that
your healthcare may be changing, ifyou know, or your access to healthcare
may be changing if you're a womanin one of these XYZ states. Here's
what I would propose, you know, at the federal level, to work
(18:22):
something out in Congress, to doyou know, the fifteen week band,
to do something that people think issomewhat moderate, somewhere in the middle.
So I think both parties are failingfemale voters by not acknowledging some of the
issues that are at the forefront oftheir mind. I mean, same with
national security. You may just keepsaying that the border is secure. I
(18:45):
mean I live in the Florida Keys, and we get migrant boats here all
the time, right right, youknow, And I say, Bill and
I spend the cold months down inFlorida as well. There's a big story,
just like a day ago, ofa cruise ship pulling out of the
harbor or in Tampa picking up rescuingI think a dozen Cubans who were trying
(19:06):
to come over and makeshift vote.So this whole idea of I love what
you're saying, because there are twosides to this. You know, this
whole idea that you can't just ignoreit and pretend it doesn't exist and think
that that will convince your voters thatit doesn't exist. You can't do that.
But over the years, you knowthat in some campaigns that is a
(19:27):
conscious choice too, there, youknow, to a conscious political strategy to
say we're not going to acknowledge it, we aren't going to be the ones
to keep, you know, tobring it, to forward it to the
attention of the voters. So thatnever works. I mean, I mean
for some people it seems like thatworks. But for me, and so
I don't know if this is ame thing or a women thing, but
(19:48):
for me, that never works.I become more aggravated and more angry when
there's something that is bothering me thatI want an answer to and it's just
completely being ignored. Yeah, andI would agree with that for sure.
And you know, I just Ithink and it's funny because I really don't
like talking about the social issues.But like, even you know, ten
(20:11):
years ago, Democrats were messaging,you know, before the Dabbs decision,
before you know, everything changed,they were still messaging on women's health care
and against planned parenthood and all thesekind of things. And I think if
you're a whole woman, you mightget a little bit offended that somebody's messaging
to you only on that. Idon't want to be message to only on
(20:32):
social issues. I want to bemessaged to on everything, but on the
economy. Yeah, absolutely, right, yeah, And so I think I
think that, you know, someof the biggest mistakes both parties are making
is they're not acknowledging the real concernsthat people have that you know, find
themselves more in the independent camp.And I think this election will be won
(20:56):
by, you know, the candidateat the top of the ticket that can
really persuade the most independent voters tosay, you know what, I know
you don't like, you know,you may not love me, but here's
why. You know, I'm betterthan the other guy on one, two,
three, four, and five,right, you know, And and
(21:17):
I think that's I think that's reallyimportant. And I think it gets lost.
And so that's why, like,I love conversations like this one longer
form podcast because it gives us theopportunity to have these discussions. You know,
we haven't even talked about Ukraine,we haven't talked about the unrest in
the Middle East. Uh, youknow, there's there's so many different things
going on in our world that again, I think it goes back to the
(21:40):
point that you made at the beginningof the pod where it was just like,
you can't view female voters as amonolith. You just can't. Right,
There's different you know, sets ofissues, there's different sets and demographics
of women within the female voting block, and it's just really important to take
the time to understand, you know, each one. And I do think
think down ballot candidates that are reallyin touch with their constituents on these various
(22:07):
issues, I think we'll do thebest. You know, we'll see what
that's And that's interesting by itself whenyou talk to start talking about down ballot
candidates and you know, you thinkabout state level candidate, state legislators,
state legislatures, and the degree towhich they have a much more direct impact
(22:29):
on individual voters on their lives onhow they live every day in their own
state. But they but it's stillthe top of the ticket, the presidential
candidates who are going to have thebiggest influence on how that down ballot goes.
It's not, as you know,it is not. It's it's not
common for people to zigzag back andforth down the down the ballot, you
(22:52):
know, on the ballots when they'revoting, if they've decided they're in for
Trump there it's more likely that they'regoing to go straight down the Republican side,
and of course the same for Biden. So I think you know that's
why we and we are one ofthe reasons why we ended with so much
detention on the top of the ticket. Well, let's talk about some of
those other issues. Actually, beforewe move on, let's talk about the
the pro choice pro life issue veryquickly first, because that is one that
(23:18):
we can see in the exit pollsfrom the last couple of cycles has had
a significant impact on how women havevoted both in the midterms and even before
that, before we had a problembefore Roby Wade was overturned, and you
said something that I thought was reallyinteresting that I could relate to you said,
I don't like to talk about thesocial issues. I don't like to
talk about the social issues issues eitherbecause I don't fit neatly into one little
(23:42):
square box, and how I feelabout things doesn't fit neatly into I'm a
Republican or I'm a Democrat or anythinglike that. And I think that that
experience is more common with women sometimesthan the parties realize, you know,
than they're willing to acknowledge, youcan be. I am a person who
is pro life, who believes thatwomen should have autonomy over their bodies and
(24:06):
should be able to make decisions independently. And I'm also somebody who doesn't believe
that my faith decisions should become lawthat is imposed on other people. So,
you know, am I incorrect?As I looked at the numbers again
getting ready for this conversation, Iget the impression based on, you know,
where the polling at the moment is, and the polling from twenty twenty
(24:30):
and the exit polls from twenty twentytwo, I get the impression that even
though we don't want to talk aboutit, it's going to be an influential
issue. Oh, it's going tobe a huge issue, especially in states
where basically, you know, thechoice if you will is on the ballot.
You know, in the state ofFlorida, the six week abortion man
(24:52):
that was passed is going to beon the ballot this fall. I absolutely
think that Democrats are going to usethat issue as a wedge issue to drive
out as much turnout as they possiblycan, because they know that, you
know, in the state of Florida, it has gone increasingly read in past
(25:12):
election cycles, recent election cycles,although I'm old enough to remember when it
was a swing state. Yeah,but I think that I think that any
place that it is on the ballot, I think Democrats are going to use
that as a turnout machine. Ithink Republicans will as well, but historically
(25:33):
Democrats use that issue to turn outvoters much better than their Republican counterparts to
an extent. I mean, everyelection itself is different, but I do
think that we're going to see,you know, a lot of messaging on
that. But I think if theDemocrats are only messaging on that, I
think they're setting themselves up to lose. Agreed, And that goes to what
(25:57):
we were sort of leading into justbefore we circle back to the the the
abortion issue. So it's not enoughto just talk about that, and it's
not enough, to your point,for the Republicans to just talk about that,
because there aren't enough Republican women towin the presidential election. Uh,
(26:17):
there aren't enough firmly pro life orstaunchly pro life Republican women to win the
election. They need those Republican womenwho are pro choice or who consider themselves
like I do you know, kindof in this weird gray area or so
there are other issues that traditionally wedon't talk about that when we're talking about
women voters, and maybe in partit's because on the polling statistically they don't
(26:45):
necessarily identify they'll sit my toe oneof my top three concerns, you know,
the economy, right to your rightchoice, choice, you know,
free choice, and the border orsomething like that. But maybe maybe issue
number four is things like our relationshipswith our foreign allies, are NATO relationships
preserving democracy? What's happening in Ukraine? What does it mean if the United
(27:08):
States doesn't support Ukraine financially at thispoint? What's happening in Israel? So
there was a poll that just cameout like a week or so ago that
showed that the overwhelming, not themajority of Americans support supporting Ukraine. I
think it was fifty three percent orfifty eight percent something like that of all
(27:33):
voters. And then when you brokeit down Independence and Democrats, particularly Democrats
seventy four percent. Independence I thinkwas fifty one percent. So again,
we're talking about a lot of womenvoters there. How do issues like that,
especially when they get more attention inthis cycle than they might normally get
(27:53):
because the Republicans are so dysfunctional inhow they're managing the House. I mean,
that's republishing a Democrat. That's Ithink that's a hard one to argue.
I mean, Johnson, Mike Johnsonjust, you know, put something
forward to get the aide to Ukrainethat they need. And it was such
(28:15):
a weird experience for me because Ithought he just did the right thing,
and I think he's doing it forthe right reason if I understand correctly,
And it was just such a disconnectfrom everything that's been happening with the republic
majority for the last two the lasttwo cycles. But talk to me about
issues like that. Is there aninstinctive empathy or compassion in women that might
(28:41):
which I think is Okay to say, like, we're genetically different than guys,
We're wired differently than guys, andthat influences when they think about things
like that. Is it. Arethese issues that you're seeing conversations on or
influence from, you know, talkto me more about some of those issues.
Yeah. I think a lot ofthese issues are breaking down, specifically
(29:04):
on the foreign policy issues. Imean again, you know, I don't
know, maybe doing this pod makesme feel old, but like I'm old
enough to remember when Republicans were theones that were standing up to support our
allies and that we're more you know, isolationists. We need to take care
of things at home, right Yeah, absolutely, me too. But I
(29:29):
think these the foreign policy issues inparticular, I think really are are something
that's breaking down more along party linesthan anything else. I think this cycle
in party lines, I mean tosay, where they stand right now.
I think, you know, I'vetalked to some Republicans to say, I
(29:52):
don't get why we're trying to secureyou know, Ukraine's border when we can't
secure our border at home. Okay, you know, And at the same
point, you know, you talkto different and I think it's breaking down
a lot on party lines and kindof older school party lines, especially with
the conflict in the Middle East.I think to your point, I think
(30:15):
women do have more empathy than theirmale counterparts. I do think that's just
how we're wired. I think thequestion becomes who are you listening to on
who deserves the most empathy, Andso I think, you know, you're
seeing a lot of traditional pro Israelconservatives come down on that side, and
whereas you're saying more liberal, youknow, activist types come down on you
(30:40):
know, the side of Gaza andthe Palestinians. I do think that that
is q is one that is breakingdown along party lines. But to your
point, I like, I likethis idea and where we're going in the
conversation that you know, women arealmost more wired to have these issues top
of mind just because we're seeing,you know, the atrocities that are that
(31:03):
are happening in in you know,all different kinds of places overseas you know
as well. And I do thinkthat does extend a bit to the border
crisis. And I do think thatif you actually have a conversation with women
and you and you talk to themand and try to get try to identify
(31:26):
the different you know, kind ofstances on securing our border, what what
we need to do with the migrants? If you ask any woman, okay,
but if that was you and youyou know, we're living in an
unsafe place and there was a bountyon the head of your of your son,
or your daughter, or your husbandor what would you do? And
(31:48):
I think everybody you know can kindof say, well, I would emigrate
legally. Oh really, well,you know what if you easy to opportunity,
easy to say sitting in Starbucks,right right, right? Yeah?
And so you know, I thinkwhen you and this is one thing that
I love about your influence in politics, Jennifer, is that, you know,
I think we need to have theseconversations. I think they're important to
(32:12):
get back to seeing the humanity ofall the people involved in these different complex
right, you know. And soI think that's really important. And I
think that's something that female voters arevery good at, is looking at the
humanity involved in each topic and saying, Okay, you know, how do
I feel based on you know,who I am as a person and what
I would like to see moving forward? Yeah, and I and you make
(32:35):
a great point about you know,when you when you ask women. If
you start asking women some of thesemore specific questions, it reminds me of
the conversation I had last week witha friend of mine, a woman who's
approximately my age. She's a formerDemocrat who's now an independent. I'm a
former Republican now an independent. We'reboth tired of our former parties and had
issues with them. And it wasinteresting because we started talking about some of
(32:58):
these things we talked about. Wetalked about the border. She and her
husband are legal our citizens now,but they came here legally, you know,
when they were children decades ago.And it was very interesting to me
because it was a very very goodconversation. No you know, no raised
voices, no you know, overlyimpassioned or anything like that. Until and
(33:22):
we talked, like I said,Ukraine, the border, a couple other
things, and then the issue ofrov Wade being overturned came up. And
when she was oh, no,she said, that is something I feel
so strongly about, too strongly aboutto compromise. She's very much a pro
she she believes that full rights,very much a woman's rights, pro choice,
(33:47):
and and and but she became moreanimated than she had been through the
whole conversation, and it just makesme think you and I are sitting here
saying, well, we want it, we want We know that women care
about a lot more things, andwe know we don't want, you know,
our politicians to ignore all these otherissues because we care about them.
But I saw it in that oneexample that there is this one very animating
(34:10):
issue right now and it seems tobe the pro choice issue. Well,
and that's what Democrats are counting on. That's exactly they're counting on people like
that not only to vote, butto call their neighbors to go vote to
you know, give their elderly neighbor, or ride to the pool. There.
They're counting on people like that todo get out the vote efforts,
(34:30):
to knock on doors, to makeget out the vote calls. That's what
they're counting on. It worked inthe most recent midterm election cycle, but
our economy is a lot worse offthan it was during the midterms. Oh
and so I think, I don'tknow, I think it's going to be
different this time, you know,but I think it. And as far
(34:54):
as the top of the ticket goesoverall, who knows, maybe the top
of the ticket is not going tobe the motivating influence that it has been
in previous election cycles because you know, as we both know, sixty five
percent of American don't want the Trumpversus Biden rematch. So maybe these other
issues are going to matter more.That's a good thing point in yeah,
(35:15):
in non election, non presidential electionyears, because nobody's terribly enthusiastic about the
top of the ticket as it is. So maybe these other issues, you
know, and especially maybe the Democratsare right. Maybe they're putting all you
know, their trips on this oneissue of abortion access, and you know,
maybe it's going to work for them. I don't you know, it's
(35:36):
still too soon to tell, itis I think only April we still have
such but you know, so we'llsee. I don't know. I don't
know. Yeah, I And I'mwith you. I you just made a
great point again. I know.I keep saying that we've everybody in the
news, in the in the youknow, pundit world and commentary, everyone's
talking about this. The fact it'snot this idea, it's a statistical fact
(36:00):
that the majority of Americans wish thatthe race was between somebody other than Biden
and Trump, and it's not justTrump or just Biden. They're looking at
this as you've got to be kiddingme again, and and so it'll be
interesting to see to what degree theyare able to kind of that they sort
of dismiss that part of the politicsand start looking at things as being more
(36:25):
issue by issue by issue. Sohere's my last issue for you. And
and this is just because it's it'snot I haven't done any I have no
numbers on this, I have noidea, but it's my personal passion in
this, in this race, andit's that I truly believe that Donald Trump
poses an existential threat to a stableAmerican democracy going forward. And so that
(36:50):
is my that is my personal that'smy focus, that's where that's what's going
to motivate me when I when whenI vote, it motivates me in all
of these podcasts, Is there anydata out there that you've seen or maybe
not even talk about data? Howdo we make the issue? I feel
like the issue of democracy is kindof you know, it's like a cloud
(37:15):
almost, you know, like weyou sort of just you can't grab it,
you can't hold it. And howdo you make it personal? What
do we say about democracy. Howdo we talk to people about democracy?
And I know this isn't just awomen's issue versus a man's issue or anything
like that, right, but howdo we talk about democracy in a way
(37:36):
that makes it personal and impactful,because I don't think it is right now
to most voters. Yeah, that'sa really good question. I think one
thing that's important to do is toremind voters that the American experiment is in
terms of you know the world historyof democracies and all different other kinds of
(38:00):
governments, the American experiment is ayoung one. It is, and if
you look at you know, otherdemocratic experiments, you know ours is ours
still has a long way to go, and I think people would do well
to remember that. I think bothsides kind of feel that the Republic is
(38:22):
at stake. I do think bothsides feel that. I think they both
feel it for very different reasons.I think if you are talking to,
you know, someone that is aTrump supporter, they're going to point to,
you know, the variety of courthearings with which he finds himself busy
these days and say, look,this is you know, American justice gone
(38:44):
wrong, and our republic is atstake. Because if we can do this
to a former president, imagine whatwe can do to you. And and
so I don't mean to make youuncomfortable by saying that. It's just I
listen, I'm not at all uncomfortable. I think we have to be honest
with our else. So that doesn'tmake me uncomfortable at all. And the
fact that and people don't have toagree, we don't have to agree with
(39:07):
each other on that's sort of athing. You know. I look at
this and say, you know,and I've said this many times, you
got to meet people where they are. If you if you think that somebody
is an honest player in the concernfor preserving democracy and they disagree with me
about this, I have to beable. I need I need as many
(39:27):
I need as many cohorts, asmany teammates and preserving democracy as I can
get, right sure. And Ithink that's one of the big issues,
frankly, in politics, is thatif somebody you know deeply disagrees about a
particular issue that's really important to you, you don't want to work with them
anymore, and you forget that there'sone hundred and twenty seven other issues that
are also really important right, right, No, I agree with that for
(39:52):
sure, and I think you know, look, consultants and candidates loves to
say this is the most important electionof our lifetime, right, But it
feels that Yeah, But I thinkit feels that way every time, to
be honest, if you're paying attention, it feels that way every time.
You know, whether whether or notthis is actually the most important election of
(40:14):
our lifetime, I'm not sure.I think history will tell us if it
is or not. You know,I think if if we have some kind
of a breakdown of government, youknow, whether or not the current president
wins again or if former President Trumpwins again, I think, you know,
if something very serious does happen toour republic, I think we will
(40:36):
look back at it and say,you know what, yeah, actually that
was the most important election, andthey screwed it up for whatever reason,
you know, in certain reason here. But I think what scares me a
little bit about and I know I'mbeing KOI on some of my views,
and I apologize for that. Youknow, what scares me a little bit
(40:57):
about the potential reelection of former PresidentTrump is that there are a lot of
better angels involved in the first administrationpeople that I know didn't vote for him,
you know, didn't didn't really supporthim, but thought, okay,
this is what we got, andI'd like to make a difference. And
I'm you know, a lifelong professionalon talking you know the swamp creatures,
(41:20):
if you will, But you know, people from the Bush administration, people
from you know, all walks ofgovernment, some very very talented people went
into that administration, and they wentin and they tried, they tried.
My concern if he wins again isthat I don't know who's going to be
around this time, just given howa lot of his former staff ends up
(41:45):
getting treated. And so I havea concern about that issue in particular,
because if if you have a foxin the henhouse and nobody's watching the hen
house, well then there's going tobe trouble. And so that's can to
be untethered in this administration. AndI think that I think you're expressing something
(42:06):
that a lot of people on bothsides of the aisle are experiencing, are
feeling. Yeah, and and andtwo. I again, I I don't
mean to, you know, toput on the other hat. I think
I think a lot of Americans wouldfeel a lot better if our current president,
you know, didn't seem so aged, didn't you know there there weren't
(42:28):
rumors that he's not really running theshop. I think a lot of independent
leaning or I'm sorry, conservative leaningindependence are genuinely scared about the idea of
a vice President Harris presidency because sheis so progressive, right, so much
more progressive than Joe Biden, noquestions about it, and so, you
(42:50):
know, I think that's you know, if you're coming from a conservative lens,
I think that you could look atthe potential that someone that progressive could
become our president. I think thatscares people in a similar way. I'm
not saying it's the exact same waythat you know, you you feel that
the Republic is on the line shouldPresident Donald Trump get re elected to office,
(43:14):
but to you know, to kindof put on the other side of
it, I do think that thereare a lot of people that think that
we cannot become that progressive of anation because look at what's happened to some
other industrialized countries that have gone thatfar left right, And so, you
know, I think people on bothsides of the aisle are kind of feeling
(43:35):
like this is the most important electionof our lifetime, and again is it
I don't know. We'll see,right, God, there's so much we
could talk about along that line aswell, and that's just that's just not
what we're going to get into forthe rest of the day today. That's
just just well, you know,we're running out of time and it's not
what we're here for. I wouldsay that to balance that a little bit,
because I think you and I dorespect each other enough to disagree that,
(44:00):
you know, this thing with youknow, their concern about Joe Biden
being aged and you know, who'sreally running the show there. I get
so frustrated with that because I knowthat a lot of people are genuinely concerned
about it, that they do listento the you know, the comments or
you call them rumors about things likethat, And to me, that just
(44:20):
seems like the most shallow political attack, you know, political you know things
that we make up and manifest andmanipulate that Oh, look at him,
he's too old, he's too old, he's too old. Well, I
look at Trump, and the guycan't get a clear sentence out half the
time when he's in front of amicrophone anymore. And it's just you know,
and it's not that it's I justit feels like the kind of thing
(44:43):
that's so easy to say you can'tprove it, but you don't have to
prove it. You know, it'spolitically so, but I think that you're
absolutely right that those kinds of impressionsreally matter and they do influence how people
look at at any election, youknow, when it can parent candidates one
to the other. So, Lauren, you are awesome. I'm really grateful
(45:05):
for you being here and being partof this conversation. I think it's terrific,
uh to we need more women voices, not you know, in the
not just in the conversation, butin the profession, you know, on
the ground, in the in theyou know, in the whole process of
politics. And so I'm going toask you to help me to find more
(45:27):
and more of them to come inhere and be part of our show.
I'm really grateful that you were here. Lauren Zelt she's the founder of Zeut
Communications. She's a long time politicalconsultant. Does most of her work on
the right side with the Republicans andalthough probably with the Conservatives, I suppose
I think might be a more accuratedescription these days, and again that's that's
(45:50):
me, not you saying it thatway. So but people should know that
you and I are also longtime friends, and I'm just I'm very very happy
to have you here. It's reallybeen a productive conversation and I appreciate it.
Thank you so much for being partof it. Thank you for having
me folks. Thanks for tuning inyou've been listening to Is it just Me?
(46:12):
Or have we all lost our minds? I am Jennifer Horn, and
we will be back again with anotherepisode next week. We thank you for
caring about the issues that are soimportant. We thank you for being part
of the conversation, and I lookforward to being here and continuing mid all
with all of you again
Hi, this is Jennifer Horn,your host at Is it just me or
have we all lost our minds.I'm very excited to have our next guest
with us today. This is thefirst time she's joined us on the podcast,
and she's here to talk about somethingthat I think is going to be
a critically impactful influence on the electionthis year, and that of course,
(00:25):
is women voters. It occurred tome as I was putting some notes together
over the weekend that we've had alot of people on the show to talk
about it, but no women,and you would be surprised, and we
should talk to our guests about this. You'll be surprised how hard it is
to find women who are fully engagedin the political arena in a professional in
a professional manner of any kind.Our guest today is the founder of Zelt
(00:51):
Communications. She is a longtime politicalcommunications consultant, done a ton of work
on the right side of the aisle, which is how I know her,
known each other for almost ten yearsnow, which is hard for me to
believe. I am very pleased tohave my friend and smart political lady Lauren's
Delt with us today. Hey,Lauren, thank you so much. For
(01:11):
joining us. Hey, Jennifer,thank you so much for having me.
It's great to be here. Itis great to have you here. It
blows my mind when I think backhow far, how long you and I
have known each other, and howfar we have both come in different ways
since then, and just the degreeto which my you know, we I,
(01:32):
at least I won't speak for youhave changed in how I see politics
and what I believe about, whatis good and bad and strong and weak
about the political system and things likethat. You and I have known each
other all the way back to whenI became chairman in New Hampshire, which
is wild for me to think about. Wild. Yeah, we were together
(01:53):
the last sane election cycle in twentyfourteen before things got weird. Did that
together, had a lot of funup in new Hamshore in twenty fourteen,
and you are a great party chairman, by the way, and I still
think, you know, I stilllook back on those days very fondly.
So I do too, I reallydo too. And even though my thoughts
(02:14):
about the Republican Party, the Republicanplatform, the principles, how the party
lives, principles today, things likethat have changed dramatically I'm very proud of
what we did. Like you andI were always in it for the right
reasons, trying to do good thingsfor good reasons. And I think there's
still a lot of people like thatin the Republican Party. They just unfortunately
(02:35):
are not the people whose voices arebeing heard. And that's that's an issue.
So yeah, I think that's right. Let's talk a little bit about
voters. You know, first,I just very quickly because I just thought
of it as I was introducing you. You know, it really is difficult
when you look at the list oflike political consultants and campaign managers and operatives
(02:57):
and you know, all the differentplaces is where you know you find employment
or activism in politics, women aregrossly underrepresented. And I can't really I
don't blame men for it. Youknow, for some reason women are just
not seeking this out. Is itjust because most women are smarter and more
(03:19):
sane than you and I and theyknow they know how to live a more
peaceful life? You know? Whatis that? Or is it like you
know, overall you know the sameissues with all sorts of areas that women
have had to sort of fight tocreate a footprint. No, I think
politics is still more of a boy'sclub than most professions. You know,
(03:43):
I've done my work primarily on theconservative side of the isle, so I
can't really speak to the consulting class, you know, around liberal activism and
anything like that. But you know, on the conservative side of the isle,
Yeah, there's not a lot oflady consultants, and especially not a
lot of ones that stick around fora long time. And I think that's,
(04:05):
you know, various I think that'sthere's a variety of reasons for that.
But you know, my business hasbeen around for five years and I
found really proud of that because youknow, for a long, a long
period of time before that, youknow, I worked for a larger firm,
and I just I knew that Iwanted to be somebody that was in
(04:27):
charge in making the decisions. Andso, you know, I don't know
what the reason is really that it'sstill a boys club, but it is
still very much a boys club,for sure, it really is. And
like you, I don't really knowwhat the structure is, you know,
to the left of center and andthe you know, folks who are led
by a more liberal principle as opposedto a more conservative principle, and but
(04:49):
I found my time in political leadershipas chairman and at the r n C
and a lot of other roles thatI played over the to be surprisingly old
boys network, you know, kindof a and it really took me by
surprise because it was the first time. I'm going to be sixty this year.
(05:10):
So when you look back on myyou know, my years in the
workplace that was politics is the onlyplace that I really personally confronted here and
there a little bits, but reallyhad to personally confront that kind of I
want to say chauvinism, but definitelyold boys kind of attitude. And it's
surprising how many women still embrace thatold boy sort of attitude, which is
(05:35):
very weird. But that's probably aconversation for another day. I really want
to talk to you like another daywith a glass of wine and nothing recording
us, right, So I reallywhat I want to talk to you about
is this upcoming election obviously Biden andTrump, and you know where I stand
on all of this and where mycommitment is, where my heart is when
(05:57):
it comes to democracy and a marrorand what kind of world future generations we'll
be living in here, So I'mfully committed to defeating Donald Trump uh in
this cycle. And one of themost you know, hyper focused issues lately,
actually the last several cycles of anyof them, but especially this year,
(06:17):
is women voters. And we alwayssay suburban women voters, but we
shouldn't limit it to just that,in spite of the fact that that's where
we're going to see a lot ofyou know, a tremendous amount of turnout
and influence. But it isn't justwomen. I mean urban women. And
what is what's the phrase they usefor not in the city but not in
the suburbs. There's like an inbetween word that they use. Now,
(06:39):
Oh, yeah, surbin or something. Yeah, that's right. Yeah,
but women, and I to sharea couple of numbers with you to sort
of lay the groundwork here for ourlisteners as well. Women have registered and
turned out in higher numbers than theirmale counterparts for decades. But women have
(07:00):
turned out and hire numbers to votesince nineteen sixty four. I was shocked
by that. I did not.Yeah, of course you're not, because
you know everything about politics. You'rethe you're one of the smart ones.
But that really surprised me. They'refifty three percent of the electorate. They
are fifty nine percent of the Democraticelectorate, which is key this year obviously.
(07:24):
But we had this bad habit.I think when we talk about women
and say we say women voters asif they're this one monolithic thing, and
it's not even close. You know, we can go back to soccer mom,
security moms, somebody for a littlewhile. Alore there's like Facebook moms,
there was, you know, allthese different things. But women,
as each year passes, become morediverse in their interests, in their priorities,
(07:47):
in their profession, and you know, all these different things. I
was just reading something as I wasgetting ready to talk to you, saying
soccer moms doesn't apply anymore, andI said, it's not that mom.
They aren't still moms, or theyaren't still going to a soccer game,
but they're on the phone in thecar on their way to the game,
and they're on a zoom meeting whilethere's you know, sitting in the suns
(08:09):
waiting for the game to start.And you know, it's a different world
than it was back in the daysof Bill Clinton and soccer moms. So
let me just kind of just giveyou sort of a general question to get
us started then and see what yourthoughts are, and we'll see where it
takes us. Talk to me aboutwomen voters in the twenty twenty four election.
Is it accurate to say that theyare going to decide who the next
(08:31):
president of the United States is goingto be? Well? Is that accurate?
Yeah? I mean it just givenI would say that is an accurate
statement, just given the numbers thatwe just talked about and the fact that
women are almost guaranteed to turn outmore than their male counterparts in our society,
(08:52):
I think the question becomes, youknow, I don't think that,
especially for this election cycle, Idon't think that we can look at female
vae voters as a monoliths, asyou discussed, and so I think it's
really important to break down the differentsections of the electorate. And you know,
look, all of us women arevery different, and I think,
you know, the boys club mentalityof politics has been putting us all into
(09:13):
one box for too long. SoI like the premise of you know,
this conversation overall, you know,I'd be happy to touch on some of
the specific issues I think that aregoing to be on voters' minds. This
fall. I mean, the onlyone that I'll put into kind of the
bucket of a monolith is the economy. I think that you know, in
(09:39):
this day and age, I stillthink it's primarily women who are going to
the grocery store, who are managingthe monthly budget, who are you know,
looking at rising insurance costs, whoare looking at you know, rising
health care costs, all these things, And so I do think on the
economy, you know, I thinka lot of women, if they're paying
(10:01):
attention, are at least questioning whetheror not we have the right leadership on
the economic issues themselves. I thinkthe question becomes and I think where this
breaks down into different groups is whatwhere the economic issues lie on the important
scale for different women? And that'show I think it's going to break down.
(10:24):
You know, you're seeing a lotwith Democrats message on you know,
the overturning of Roe versus Waded.We saw that a lot in twenty twenty
two. We're definitely going to seeit again in twenty twenty four. But
I think, you know, I'mnot in the habit of advising Democrats,
but I think that if I was, I would tell them they're making a
bit of a mistake by going allin on the social issues, because at
(10:48):
the end of the day, youknow, every person I talk to,
whether it's the clerk at CBS orthe hostess at the restaurant, everybody is
talking about how much more expensive lifehas gotten, right, And so I
think the question, and where youcan kind of break down into the different
demographic groups within the female voting blockis what kind of a priority do you
(11:11):
place on those issues versus on economicissues, versus what kind of a priority
are you placing on the social issues? And I think that's where we're going
to start to see some of thetrends sort of delineate between the different,
you know, types of women outthere. But you know, I do
think that the economy is something thatI think female voters are at least going
(11:35):
to have in mind when they goto the ballot box. For sure,
the economy is almost almost without exception, number one on the list with any
voter you've talked to, almost withoutexception, right, And that's decades,
for decades and decades, that's beenthe case. So let's just talk about
that issue a little bit before wemove on to the next one. Then
I and I love how you saidit, that you know, everybody's really
(11:56):
concerned about how expensive life is,and life has become clearly, statistically provably
much more expensive. And I thinkthe plagure you commented about women are still
the ones that are doing the groceryshopping, and that seems to be where
we see it most consistently, andthat's for people who have been doing the
grocery shopping every week for the lastten or fifteen or twenty years. You
(12:18):
see it when milk has doubled inprice, and butter has doubled in price,
and bread has doubled in price,and all of those those are all
real numbers. Because I do thegrocery shopping at our house so that I
know that it's doubled. I canremember when I ran for Congress being very
conscientious about the cost of a gallonof milk, because you know, to
be able to say that in aconversation. People want to understand that the
(12:41):
politics of the day feels their painand understands what's important to them. But
so try to let's put ourselves onthe left side here on the Biden side.
When you look at the majority ofthe traditional economic indicators were actually truly
doing fairly well. Wages are increasing, inflation is decreasing a little bit.
(13:07):
You know, employment is unemployment isvery low. You know, employment is
very high, like all these traditionalindicators, but it still feels expensive because
some of those numbers have gone upand they're never going to go back.
You know, we don't pay thesame for a loaf of bread that we
did in nineteen thirty six. Right, So how should somebody like a Joe
(13:28):
Biden or the Democratic Party, howdo they message on that in a way
when people it's not that people aremisinformed. You know, like I said,
milk has you know, gallon ofmilk has doubled in costs. We
know that's real. How do youmessage that or connect to a voter when
that's the case. It's like someof this is it's hard to blame Joe
(13:50):
Biden for that, and he isthere are good things in the economy,
but you know, how so foras a consultant, I guess what's the
mess had done that? Well?I think the biggest mistake that they're making
is that they're not I would sayeveryone from the White House to the President
Biden's re election campaign, they're notacknowledging the strife that people are feeling economically
(14:16):
right now, and so I thinkit would go a long way for the
President to acknowledge you know what,I know, life is a little bit
more expensive. Let me tell youhow we got here, let me tell
you why it is this way,and let me tell you what I'm going
to do to try to ensure thatour economy remains healthy moving forward. Like
(14:37):
at the end of the day,people, that's the way the acknowledgment,
and they're not acknowledging it. Itwas really interesting to me. I was
watching the Today Show during the dayof the Easter egg role and they had
Al Roker there to interview President Bidenand doctor Joe Biden, and even Al
(14:58):
Roker said something along on the linesof, you know, people's Easter budgets
didn't go as far this year.What do you have to say to that?
And the President's response was, well, the United States has the strongest
economy in the world. That mayvery well be true, right, But
he didn't acknowledge the question. Andhe didn't he And from what I'm seeing,
(15:20):
Democrats just aren't acknowledging the economic painthat people are feeling. And I
think it would do them, youknow, a good service to their effort
if they did, because I thinkat the end of the day, if
somebody feels like they've been heard onan issue, they might be more willing
to move on from that issue andconsider some of the other issues that the
(15:43):
Democrats are messaging on. But ifthe Dems don't acknowledge it at all,
I think, I think it's abig mistake for them, I really really
do. Yeah, I agree withyou, and I think that that's you
know, that that's just part ofhumanness, humanity to have your concerns,
especially when it's a concern or afear, you know, but to have
your thoughts and your experience acknowledge andvalidated in some way. I also think
(16:08):
that women need that, not needed, that's the wrong worry. But I
think that they respond to validation evenmore strongly than them, do you know,
And that when a man is notyou know, I don't want to
get real deep into some of theyou know, the psychology of all this,
but the truth is, when aman does not validate a woman's concerns,
(16:30):
that is a much stronger feeling andimpact than if you and I are
chatting you know a couple of femalefriends and I say something and you kind
of miss it, and we keepgoing like it's not the same experience.
And when you have so one ofthe things that has changed so much about
women voters, they are more ofthem are in professions, more of them
have been have college degrees, moreof them are a full time in the
(16:51):
workplace, more of them are thetop way journer in their home. Things
like that. So when they havea male president, ignore what is possibly
their number one concern, even ifit's subconscious, that is going to impact
how they see that individual, whichis going to impact how they vote.
Yeah, I agree with that wholeheartedly. But I would also, you know,
(17:14):
to play devil's advocate. I thinkthat Democrats would come back and say,
okay, fine, but Republicans aren'tacknowledging, you know, the overall
fact that the landscape of abortion politicsin America has fundamentally shifted. Republicans don't
acknowledge that. For women like,I'm a millennial, right, and so
(17:37):
I was born after Rome versus Wadewas decided. So if you're a millennial
woman, it's it's pretty confusing whenthe decided law of the land suddenly is
different. And I think that youknow, I know, Republicans are not
going to acknowledge that there's you know, they're not going to and again,
(17:59):
I think it does them a disservice. I think, you know, it
would do Republicans well to acknowledge,we understand that you have some concerns that
your healthcare may be changing, ifyou know, or your access to healthcare
may be changing if you're a womanin one of these XYZ states. Here's
what I would propose, you know, at the federal level, to work
(18:22):
something out in Congress, to doyou know, the fifteen week band,
to do something that people think issomewhat moderate, somewhere in the middle.
So I think both parties are failingfemale voters by not acknowledging some of the
issues that are at the forefront oftheir mind. I mean, same with
national security. You may just keepsaying that the border is secure. I
(18:45):
mean I live in the Florida Keys, and we get migrant boats here all
the time, right right, youknow, And I say, Bill and
I spend the cold months down inFlorida as well. There's a big story,
just like a day ago, ofa cruise ship pulling out of the
harbor or in Tampa picking up rescuingI think a dozen Cubans who were trying
(19:06):
to come over and makeshift vote.So this whole idea of I love what
you're saying, because there are twosides to this. You know, this
whole idea that you can't just ignoreit and pretend it doesn't exist and think
that that will convince your voters thatit doesn't exist. You can't do that.
But over the years, you knowthat in some campaigns that is a
(19:27):
conscious choice too, there, youknow, to a conscious political strategy to
say we're not going to acknowledge it, we aren't going to be the ones
to keep, you know, tobring it, to forward it to the
attention of the voters. So thatnever works. I mean, I mean
for some people it seems like thatworks. But for me, and so
I don't know if this is ame thing or a women thing, but
(19:48):
for me, that never works.I become more aggravated and more angry when
there's something that is bothering me thatI want an answer to and it's just
completely being ignored. Yeah, andI would agree with that for sure.
And you know, I just Ithink and it's funny because I really don't
like talking about the social issues.But like, even you know, ten
(20:11):
years ago, Democrats were messaging,you know, before the Dabbs decision,
before you know, everything changed,they were still messaging on women's health care
and against planned parenthood and all thesekind of things. And I think if
you're a whole woman, you mightget a little bit offended that somebody's messaging
to you only on that. Idon't want to be message to only on
(20:32):
social issues. I want to bemessaged to on everything, but on the
economy. Yeah, absolutely, right, yeah, And so I think I
think that, you know, someof the biggest mistakes both parties are making
is they're not acknowledging the real concernsthat people have that you know, find
themselves more in the independent camp.And I think this election will be won
(20:56):
by, you know, the candidateat the top of the ticket that can
really persuade the most independent voters tosay, you know what, I know
you don't like, you know,you may not love me, but here's
why. You know, I'm betterthan the other guy on one, two,
three, four, and five,right, you know, And and
(21:17):
I think that's I think that's reallyimportant. And I think it gets lost.
And so that's why, like,I love conversations like this one longer
form podcast because it gives us theopportunity to have these discussions. You know,
we haven't even talked about Ukraine,we haven't talked about the unrest in
the Middle East. Uh, youknow, there's there's so many different things
going on in our world that again, I think it goes back to the
(21:40):
point that you made at the beginningof the pod where it was just like,
you can't view female voters as amonolith. You just can't. Right,
There's different you know, sets ofissues, there's different sets and demographics
of women within the female voting block, and it's just really important to take
the time to understand, you know, each one. And I do think
think down ballot candidates that are reallyin touch with their constituents on these various
(22:07):
issues, I think we'll do thebest. You know, we'll see what
that's And that's interesting by itself whenyou talk to start talking about down ballot
candidates and you know, you thinkabout state level candidate, state legislators,
state legislatures, and the degree towhich they have a much more direct impact
(22:29):
on individual voters on their lives onhow they live every day in their own
state. But they but it's stillthe top of the ticket, the presidential
candidates who are going to have thebiggest influence on how that down ballot goes.
It's not, as you know,it is not. It's it's not
common for people to zigzag back andforth down the down the ballot, you
(22:52):
know, on the ballots when they'revoting, if they've decided they're in for
Trump there it's more likely that they'regoing to go straight down the Republican side,
and of course the same for Biden. So I think you know that's
why we and we are one ofthe reasons why we ended with so much
detention on the top of the ticket. Well, let's talk about some of
those other issues. Actually, beforewe move on, let's talk about the
the pro choice pro life issue veryquickly first, because that is one that
(23:18):
we can see in the exit pollsfrom the last couple of cycles has had
a significant impact on how women havevoted both in the midterms and even before
that, before we had a problembefore Roby Wade was overturned, and you
said something that I thought was reallyinteresting that I could relate to you said,
I don't like to talk about thesocial issues. I don't like to
talk about the social issues issues eitherbecause I don't fit neatly into one little
(23:42):
square box, and how I feelabout things doesn't fit neatly into I'm a
Republican or I'm a Democrat or anythinglike that. And I think that that
experience is more common with women sometimesthan the parties realize, you know,
than they're willing to acknowledge, youcan be. I am a person who
is pro life, who believes thatwomen should have autonomy over their bodies and
(24:06):
should be able to make decisions independently. And I'm also somebody who doesn't believe
that my faith decisions should become lawthat is imposed on other people. So,
you know, am I incorrect?As I looked at the numbers again
getting ready for this conversation, Iget the impression based on, you know,
where the polling at the moment is, and the polling from twenty twenty
(24:30):
and the exit polls from twenty twentytwo, I get the impression that even
though we don't want to talk aboutit, it's going to be an influential
issue. Oh, it's going tobe a huge issue, especially in states
where basically, you know, thechoice if you will is on the ballot.
You know, in the state ofFlorida, the six week abortion man
(24:52):
that was passed is going to beon the ballot this fall. I absolutely
think that Democrats are going to usethat issue as a wedge issue to drive
out as much turnout as they possiblycan, because they know that, you
know, in the state of Florida, it has gone increasingly read in past
(25:12):
election cycles, recent election cycles,although I'm old enough to remember when it
was a swing state. Yeah,but I think that I think that any
place that it is on the ballot, I think Democrats are going to use
that as a turnout machine. Ithink Republicans will as well, but historically
(25:33):
Democrats use that issue to turn outvoters much better than their Republican counterparts to
an extent. I mean, everyelection itself is different, but I do
think that we're going to see,you know, a lot of messaging on
that. But I think if theDemocrats are only messaging on that, I
think they're setting themselves up to lose. Agreed, And that goes to what
(25:57):
we were sort of leading into justbefore we circle back to the the the
abortion issue. So it's not enoughto just talk about that, and it's
not enough, to your point,for the Republicans to just talk about that,
because there aren't enough Republican women towin the presidential election. Uh,
(26:17):
there aren't enough firmly pro life orstaunchly pro life Republican women to win the
election. They need those Republican womenwho are pro choice or who consider themselves
like I do you know, kindof in this weird gray area or so
there are other issues that traditionally wedon't talk about that when we're talking about
women voters, and maybe in partit's because on the polling statistically they don't
(26:45):
necessarily identify they'll sit my toe oneof my top three concerns, you know,
the economy, right to your rightchoice, choice, you know,
free choice, and the border orsomething like that. But maybe maybe issue
number four is things like our relationshipswith our foreign allies, are NATO relationships
preserving democracy? What's happening in Ukraine? What does it mean if the United
(27:08):
States doesn't support Ukraine financially at thispoint? What's happening in Israel? So
there was a poll that just cameout like a week or so ago that
showed that the overwhelming, not themajority of Americans support supporting Ukraine. I
think it was fifty three percent orfifty eight percent something like that of all
(27:33):
voters. And then when you brokeit down Independence and Democrats, particularly Democrats
seventy four percent. Independence I thinkwas fifty one percent. So again,
we're talking about a lot of womenvoters there. How do issues like that,
especially when they get more attention inthis cycle than they might normally get
(27:53):
because the Republicans are so dysfunctional inhow they're managing the House. I mean,
that's republishing a Democrat. That's Ithink that's a hard one to argue.
I mean, Johnson, Mike Johnsonjust, you know, put something
forward to get the aide to Ukrainethat they need. And it was such
(28:15):
a weird experience for me because Ithought he just did the right thing,
and I think he's doing it forthe right reason if I understand correctly,
And it was just such a disconnectfrom everything that's been happening with the republic
majority for the last two the lasttwo cycles. But talk to me about
issues like that. Is there aninstinctive empathy or compassion in women that might
(28:41):
which I think is Okay to say, like, we're genetically different than guys,
We're wired differently than guys, andthat influences when they think about things
like that. Is it. Arethese issues that you're seeing conversations on or
influence from, you know, talkto me more about some of those issues.
Yeah. I think a lot ofthese issues are breaking down, specifically
(29:04):
on the foreign policy issues. Imean again, you know, I don't
know, maybe doing this pod makesme feel old, but like I'm old
enough to remember when Republicans were theones that were standing up to support our
allies and that we're more you know, isolationists. We need to take care
of things at home, right Yeah, absolutely, me too. But I
(29:29):
think these the foreign policy issues inparticular, I think really are are something
that's breaking down more along party linesthan anything else. I think this cycle
in party lines, I mean tosay, where they stand right now.
I think, you know, I'vetalked to some Republicans to say, I
(29:52):
don't get why we're trying to secureyou know, Ukraine's border when we can't
secure our border at home. Okay, you know, And at the same
point, you know, you talkto different and I think it's breaking down
a lot on party lines and kindof older school party lines, especially with
the conflict in the Middle East.I think to your point, I think
(30:15):
women do have more empathy than theirmale counterparts. I do think that's just
how we're wired. I think thequestion becomes who are you listening to on
who deserves the most empathy, Andso I think, you know, you're
seeing a lot of traditional pro Israelconservatives come down on that side, and
whereas you're saying more liberal, youknow, activist types come down on you
(30:40):
know, the side of Gaza andthe Palestinians. I do think that that
is q is one that is breakingdown along party lines. But to your
point, I like, I likethis idea and where we're going in the
conversation that you know, women arealmost more wired to have these issues top
of mind just because we're seeing,you know, the atrocities that are that
(31:03):
are happening in in you know,all different kinds of places overseas you know
as well. And I do thinkthat does extend a bit to the border
crisis. And I do think thatif you actually have a conversation with women
and you and you talk to themand and try to get try to identify
(31:26):
the different you know, kind ofstances on securing our border, what what
we need to do with the migrants? If you ask any woman, okay,
but if that was you and youyou know, we're living in an
unsafe place and there was a bountyon the head of your of your son,
or your daughter, or your husbandor what would you do? And
(31:48):
I think everybody you know can kindof say, well, I would emigrate
legally. Oh really, well,you know what if you easy to opportunity,
easy to say sitting in Starbucks,right right, right? Yeah?
And so you know, I thinkwhen you and this is one thing that
I love about your influence in politics, Jennifer, is that, you know,
I think we need to have theseconversations. I think they're important to
(32:12):
get back to seeing the humanity ofall the people involved in these different complex
right, you know. And soI think that's really important. And I
think that's something that female voters arevery good at, is looking at the
humanity involved in each topic and saying, Okay, you know, how do
I feel based on you know,who I am as a person and what
I would like to see moving forward? Yeah, and I and you make
(32:35):
a great point about you know,when you when you ask women. If
you start asking women some of thesemore specific questions, it reminds me of
the conversation I had last week witha friend of mine, a woman who's
approximately my age. She's a formerDemocrat who's now an independent. I'm a
former Republican now an independent. We'reboth tired of our former parties and had
issues with them. And it wasinteresting because we started talking about some of
(32:58):
these things we talked about. Wetalked about the border. She and her
husband are legal our citizens now,but they came here legally, you know,
when they were children decades ago.And it was very interesting to me
because it was a very very goodconversation. No you know, no raised
voices, no you know, overlyimpassioned or anything like that. Until and
(33:22):
we talked, like I said,Ukraine, the border, a couple other
things, and then the issue ofrov Wade being overturned came up. And
when she was oh, no,she said, that is something I feel
so strongly about, too strongly aboutto compromise. She's very much a pro
she she believes that full rights,very much a woman's rights, pro choice,
(33:47):
and and and but she became moreanimated than she had been through the
whole conversation, and it just makesme think you and I are sitting here
saying, well, we want it, we want We know that women care
about a lot more things, andwe know we don't want, you know,
our politicians to ignore all these otherissues because we care about them.
But I saw it in that oneexample that there is this one very animating
(34:10):
issue right now and it seems tobe the pro choice issue. Well,
and that's what Democrats are counting on. That's exactly they're counting on people like
that not only to vote, butto call their neighbors to go vote to
you know, give their elderly neighbor, or ride to the pool. There.
They're counting on people like that todo get out the vote efforts,
(34:30):
to knock on doors, to makeget out the vote calls. That's what
they're counting on. It worked inthe most recent midterm election cycle, but
our economy is a lot worse offthan it was during the midterms. Oh
and so I think, I don'tknow, I think it's going to be
different this time, you know,but I think it. And as far
(34:54):
as the top of the ticket goesoverall, who knows, maybe the top
of the ticket is not going tobe the motivating influence that it has been
in previous election cycles because you know, as we both know, sixty five
percent of American don't want the Trumpversus Biden rematch. So maybe these other
issues are going to matter more.That's a good thing point in yeah,
(35:15):
in non election, non presidential electionyears, because nobody's terribly enthusiastic about the
top of the ticket as it is. So maybe these other issues, you
know, and especially maybe the Democratsare right. Maybe they're putting all you
know, their trips on this oneissue of abortion access, and you know,
maybe it's going to work for them. I don't you know, it's
(35:36):
still too soon to tell, itis I think only April we still have
such but you know, so we'llsee. I don't know. I don't
know. Yeah, I And I'mwith you. I you just made a
great point again. I know.I keep saying that we've everybody in the
news, in the in the youknow, pundit world and commentary, everyone's
talking about this. The fact it'snot this idea, it's a statistical fact
(36:00):
that the majority of Americans wish thatthe race was between somebody other than Biden
and Trump, and it's not justTrump or just Biden. They're looking at
this as you've got to be kiddingme again, and and so it'll be
interesting to see to what degree theyare able to kind of that they sort
of dismiss that part of the politicsand start looking at things as being more
(36:25):
issue by issue by issue. Sohere's my last issue for you. And
and this is just because it's it'snot I haven't done any I have no
numbers on this, I have noidea, but it's my personal passion in
this, in this race, andit's that I truly believe that Donald Trump
poses an existential threat to a stableAmerican democracy going forward. And so that
(36:50):
is my that is my personal that'smy focus, that's where that's what's going
to motivate me when I when whenI vote, it motivates me in all
of these podcasts, Is there anydata out there that you've seen or maybe
not even talk about data? Howdo we make the issue? I feel
like the issue of democracy is kindof you know, it's like a cloud
(37:15):
almost, you know, like weyou sort of just you can't grab it,
you can't hold it. And howdo you make it personal? What
do we say about democracy. Howdo we talk to people about democracy?
And I know this isn't just awomen's issue versus a man's issue or anything
like that, right, but howdo we talk about democracy in a way
(37:36):
that makes it personal and impactful,because I don't think it is right now
to most voters. Yeah, that'sa really good question. I think one
thing that's important to do is toremind voters that the American experiment is in
terms of you know the world historyof democracies and all different other kinds of
(38:00):
governments, the American experiment is ayoung one. It is, and if
you look at you know, otherdemocratic experiments, you know ours is ours
still has a long way to go, and I think people would do well
to remember that. I think bothsides kind of feel that the Republic is
(38:22):
at stake. I do think bothsides feel that. I think they both
feel it for very different reasons.I think if you are talking to,
you know, someone that is aTrump supporter, they're going to point to,
you know, the variety of courthearings with which he finds himself busy
these days and say, look,this is you know, American justice gone
(38:44):
wrong, and our republic is atstake. Because if we can do this
to a former president, imagine whatwe can do to you. And and
so I don't mean to make youuncomfortable by saying that. It's just I
listen, I'm not at all uncomfortable. I think we have to be honest
with our else. So that doesn'tmake me uncomfortable at all. And the
fact that and people don't have toagree, we don't have to agree with
(39:07):
each other on that's sort of athing. You know. I look at
this and say, you know,and I've said this many times, you
got to meet people where they are. If you if you think that somebody
is an honest player in the concernfor preserving democracy and they disagree with me
about this, I have to beable. I need I need as many
(39:27):
I need as many cohorts, asmany teammates and preserving democracy as I can
get, right sure. And Ithink that's one of the big issues,
frankly, in politics, is thatif somebody you know deeply disagrees about a
particular issue that's really important to you, you don't want to work with them
anymore, and you forget that there'sone hundred and twenty seven other issues that
are also really important right, right, No, I agree with that for
(39:52):
sure, and I think you know, look, consultants and candidates loves to
say this is the most important electionof our lifetime, right, But it
feels that Yeah, But I thinkit feels that way every time, to
be honest, if you're paying attention, it feels that way every time.
You know, whether whether or notthis is actually the most important election of
(40:14):
our lifetime, I'm not sure.I think history will tell us if it
is or not. You know,I think if if we have some kind
of a breakdown of government, youknow, whether or not the current president
wins again or if former President Trumpwins again, I think, you know,
if something very serious does happen toour republic, I think we will
(40:36):
look back at it and say,you know what, yeah, actually that
was the most important election, andthey screwed it up for whatever reason,
you know, in certain reason here. But I think what scares me a
little bit about and I know I'mbeing KOI on some of my views,
and I apologize for that. Youknow, what scares me a little bit
(40:57):
about the potential reelection of former PresidentTrump is that there are a lot of
better angels involved in the first administrationpeople that I know didn't vote for him,
you know, didn't didn't really supporthim, but thought, okay,
this is what we got, andI'd like to make a difference. And
I'm you know, a lifelong professionalon talking you know the swamp creatures,
(41:20):
if you will, But you know, people from the Bush administration, people
from you know, all walks ofgovernment, some very very talented people went
into that administration, and they wentin and they tried, they tried.
My concern if he wins again isthat I don't know who's going to be
around this time, just given howa lot of his former staff ends up
(41:45):
getting treated. And so I havea concern about that issue in particular,
because if if you have a foxin the henhouse and nobody's watching the hen
house, well then there's going tobe trouble. And so that's can to
be untethered in this administration. AndI think that I think you're expressing something
(42:06):
that a lot of people on bothsides of the aisle are experiencing, are
feeling. Yeah, and and andtwo. I again, I I don't
mean to, you know, toput on the other hat. I think
I think a lot of Americans wouldfeel a lot better if our current president,
you know, didn't seem so aged, didn't you know there there weren't
(42:28):
rumors that he's not really running theshop. I think a lot of independent
leaning or I'm sorry, conservative leaningindependence are genuinely scared about the idea of
a vice President Harris presidency because sheis so progressive, right, so much
more progressive than Joe Biden, noquestions about it, and so, you
(42:50):
know, I think that's you know, if you're coming from a conservative lens,
I think that you could look atthe potential that someone that progressive could
become our president. I think thatscares people in a similar way. I'm
not saying it's the exact same waythat you know, you you feel that
the Republic is on the line shouldPresident Donald Trump get re elected to office,
(43:14):
but to you know, to kindof put on the other side of
it, I do think that thereare a lot of people that think that
we cannot become that progressive of anation because look at what's happened to some
other industrialized countries that have gone thatfar left right, And so, you
know, I think people on bothsides of the aisle are kind of feeling
(43:35):
like this is the most important electionof our lifetime, and again is it
I don't know. We'll see,right, God, there's so much we
could talk about along that line aswell, and that's just that's just not
what we're going to get into forthe rest of the day today. That's
just just well, you know,we're running out of time and it's not
what we're here for. I wouldsay that to balance that a little bit,
because I think you and I dorespect each other enough to disagree that,
(44:00):
you know, this thing with youknow, their concern about Joe Biden
being aged and you know, who'sreally running the show there. I get
so frustrated with that because I knowthat a lot of people are genuinely concerned
about it, that they do listento the you know, the comments or
you call them rumors about things likethat, And to me, that just
(44:20):
seems like the most shallow political attack, you know, political you know things
that we make up and manifest andmanipulate that Oh, look at him,
he's too old, he's too old, he's too old. Well, I
look at Trump, and the guycan't get a clear sentence out half the
time when he's in front of amicrophone anymore. And it's just you know,
and it's not that it's I justit feels like the kind of thing
(44:43):
that's so easy to say you can'tprove it, but you don't have to
prove it. You know, it'spolitically so, but I think that you're
absolutely right that those kinds of impressionsreally matter and they do influence how people
look at at any election, youknow, when it can parent candidates one
to the other. So, Lauren, you are awesome. I'm really grateful
(45:05):
for you being here and being partof this conversation. I think it's terrific,
uh to we need more women voices, not you know, in the
not just in the conversation, butin the profession, you know, on
the ground, in the in theyou know, in the whole process of
politics. And so I'm going toask you to help me to find more
(45:27):
and more of them to come inhere and be part of our show.
I'm really grateful that you were here. Lauren Zelt she's the founder of Zeut
Communications. She's a long time politicalconsultant. Does most of her work on
the right side with the Republicans andalthough probably with the Conservatives, I suppose
I think might be a more accuratedescription these days, and again that's that's
(45:50):
me, not you saying it thatway. So but people should know that
you and I are also longtime friends, and I'm just I'm very very happy
to have you here. It's reallybeen a productive conversation and I appreciate it.
Thank you so much for being partof it. Thank you for having
me folks. Thanks for tuning inyou've been listening to Is it just Me?
(46:12):
Or have we all lost our minds? I am Jennifer Horn, and
we will be back again with anotherepisode next week. We thank you for
caring about the issues that are soimportant. We thank you for being part
of the conversation, and I lookforward to being here and continuing mid all
with all of you again
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Cardiac Cowboys
The heart was always off-limits to surgeons. Cutting into it spelled instant death for the patient. That is, until a ragtag group of doctors scattered across the Midwest and Texas decided to throw out the rule book. Working in makeshift laboratories and home garages, using medical devices made from scavenged machine parts and beer tubes, these men and women invented the field of open heart surgery. Odds are, someone you know is alive because of them. So why has history left them behind? Presented by Chris Pine, CARDIAC COWBOYS tells the gripping true story behind the birth of heart surgery, and the young, Greatest Generation doctors who made it happen. For years, they competed and feuded, racing to be the first, the best, and the most prolific. Some appeared on the cover of Time Magazine, operated on kings and advised presidents. Others ended up disgraced, penniless, and convicted of felonies. Together, they ignited a revolution in medicine, and changed the world.