It Would Seem As Though Holidays are What You Make Them

This week we talk about going no contact with family members, choosing your own holiday traditions and chosen family.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:16):
It was Hi, good morning, are you this morning? I'm here?
Didn't sleep.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
Some, I did sleep some, so better than the night before,
better than the night before.

Speaker 1 (00:33):
I mean, still not great, but we're doing it. She's winning,
She's winning.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
I'm going to get this out right at the top,
because otherwise, you know, I'll be halfway through the show.

Speaker 1 (00:43):
Who show?

Speaker 2 (00:43):
We are welcome to another episode of It would seem
as though the podcast where we talk about anything, everything
and nothing mostly nothing.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
I'm Vesta and I'm Anaka.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
And the reason we're talking about her sleep is because
night before last she barely slept at all. Yeah, which
every time we talk about it, I always the Fifth
Dimension song last night I didn't get to sleep.

Speaker 1 (01:06):
It all always comes into you.

Speaker 2 (01:07):
Yeah, yeah, I was always of course such and it's
a classic and if you don't know it, go look
it up. It's amazing what you Fifth Dimension, amazing group,
everything they did, gold perfection, Marilyn McCoo, Marilyn Manson stepping
very different. Yeah, when Marilyn mcou stepped down as a group,
Marilyn Manson stepped in, and nobody noticed that this beautiful,

(01:27):
you know, black woman with an amazing voice left in
a pasty white guy who screams stepped down.

Speaker 1 (01:33):
You know, not that I have an issue with Marilyn Manson,
not a musical issue. I don't have a music I
have a personal issue with it anyway. So she hasn't
been sleeping, right, and uh, me too, but for different reasons.

Speaker 2 (01:45):
I mean with me, it's years and years of insomnia
for sure, and being old and fat.

Speaker 1 (01:50):
And everything everything hurting. Yeah, right, But for me, do
we want to talk about what's going on? I mean,
we've already brought it up, so it's fine, we've already
brought up me not sleeping. And there's a reason. In
the night before Thanksgiving, you know, there was not a
sound in the house or however that before I discuss
it anyway, not a creature was stirring, not even not

(02:11):
even a mouse.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
If there were two dogs and a fat cat, yes.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Probab, they're probably sleeping. Anyway.

Speaker 2 (02:17):
It was I don't know, eight o'clock at night maybe
and I get a phone call and it's I don't
answer my phone.

Speaker 1 (02:25):
You know who would? Yeah? I do if I know
who's calling, or if I'm expecting a phone call, like
oh wait, my hospital is gonna call me I'm gonna
wait for that, you know, but I answer and then I'm.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Gonna pause you for a second. I thought that was
a generational thing. I thought that that was mostly like
folks of your generation and younger who don't answer their
phone because they consider actually someone calling you like offensive. Yeah,
you know, but I know people my age who also
don't answer their phone. So when texting became a thing,
because remember Grandma, Grandma used to love you call her.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
She would chat chat chat for hours. Right once texting
became available. When Grandma got older, she was like, I
don't want people. You don't call me, you just text me.
I don't want to answer my phone, which is so funny. Anyway,
So I got a phone call and it was them.
I didn't recognize. He listened to the message and it
was this woman who is the neighbor and friend of

(03:14):
my birth mother who lives in Montana and her we'll
call her Sandy. Sandy took my birth mother to the
hospital for several reasons. She's in like intensive care. She
there's all the things. She has a heart condition, she
has lung damage, she has pneumonia. Mind you, she's an alcoholic,

(03:36):
so she's super puffy, she's retaining water. The bloodox level
was like forty eight percent. Yeah, so she's for all
intents and purposes, what feels like dying. Yeah. And she
has like alcoholic dementia, you know. So there's a lot
she's not doing well. So she contacted me, and I

(03:57):
my birth mother and I have had a relationship that
has been very tumultuous at best. There are times when
she's great and then times when she's not great because
she has a lot of unchecked mental illness on top
of addiction, you know. And so.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
She has right and for many many years now, it's
been you know, I'm going to get help.

Speaker 1 (04:19):
I'm going to stop drinking. And she may stop drinking
for a day maybe, yeah, totally. And like she one
time I went to California and she told me and
I didn't see her for a while, and she was like, oh,
I started going to a therapist. I'm gonna stop drinking.
Like so she knows what she needs to do, but
she just says what she has to to play kate
people anyway, So she's not doing well. So this woman

(04:41):
contacted me. I do not talk to my birth mother,
and I haven't for quite some time, and and not
the first time. There are many times when I've gone
no contact and then like you need to clean up
your act, and then you know, it'll be okay for
a while, and then she'll I won't talk to her,
and then she'll be like I'm sorry, or won't say
I'm s and just be like a me see you,

(05:02):
and everything's fine for a hot minute. Well this time,
this last time, I haven't talked to her for two years,
over two years, and yeah, so I'm being contacted and
I don't know what's going on in her life. I
can tell you she doesn't stop drinking, right the things
that I know.

Speaker 2 (05:17):
So then I but I was this well, and her
idea of fixing your relationships throwing money at it ye
not ever changing, but just like let me pay for
your school or here, let me buy you this thing.
And it's like, how does that fix anything?

Speaker 1 (05:31):
It doesn't fix anything really at all. And so I
became the point person for this for Sandy, and I
have had to I don't have to do anything, but
I did what I thought was right, and I told
the people who were like my siblings and my cousins
who were related to my birth mother and nobody really cares.

(05:59):
And that's a I mean, it's kind of hard for
me to say because I actively have to not care, right,
I have to actively make it so I don't give
a shit because I have too much empathy and it's stabilitating.
And I give empathy when I think people are sad, tortured,
you know whatever, whether or not there it's deserving, right,
So I have to actively not care. I care, she's

(06:21):
a person whatever, but this is you know, of her
own making. She's in this, you know, but it's like
someone being sad and alone in a hospital. Like the
thought of my birth mother being alone in a hospital
dying is not what I ever thought I would say,
do you know what I mean? And that kind of shit.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
And I'm gonna have to disagree with you because I
don't think it's that you make yourself not cares, that
you make yourself disengage, because I don't think you.

Speaker 1 (06:47):
Can possibly make yourself not care. No, no, no, because it's
been kicking your ass, you know, because that whole conflict
of I don't have a relationship with this person because
of this person, not because you know.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
She didn't buy me the computer I wanted for Christmas.
Or you know, some dumb ass reason. It's real reasons
because when she is on a tear, she is brutal
and toxic.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
And yeah, yeah, yeah, vicious.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
So it is I'm gonna say that, it's really you
just trying to disengagetal, you know, and remain disengaged.

Speaker 1 (07:22):
Which is the hard part. It is the hard part
because I feel I do feel sad, right, I feel
sad and angry. I feel annoyed. I feel like all
of this could have been avoided. I feel there's so
many conflicting feelings. But I now when people are just like, okay, well,
if you give me more information, I guess let me know.

(07:42):
You know, like my two brothers are that way. A
lot of people are like, I can't talk to her.
I'm sorry this is happening in your feeling this way,
but I can't. And I get it. I do, because
I again am actively staying disengaged. But then I think
about it, and this is the problem is thinking, and
that's a huge issue. But you know, it only seems
like it movies and television show where there was someone
so horrible and I cut everyone off that no one

(08:04):
shows up, you know, in the eleventh hour, and you know,
and I in my mind and that movie in my mind,
it's it breaks my little heart. It is a sad
thing to think that she's this sick and or possibly
dying alone, right like, no matter who it is, that
is a sad thing. But I also know that, like,

(08:25):
I can't be the one responsible for this. I can't
be the one who ghost her to what end? No exactly.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
I mean, you know you have done what you can do,
and you've tried to repair this relationship over and over
and over.

Speaker 1 (08:39):
And over for many many years. And you know the
damage started when she walked out when you were six,
I know, you know, and just disappeared off the face
of the earth. And I was talking to Gavin about that.
I was like, I never for the longest time, I
didn't blame her, right like, and you know I didn't.
I was I my whole youth after she left it,
I didn't see her. I like asked about her. I

(09:00):
wanted to find her. And it was like my birth father,
who was like, but I don't worth shows can't find her,
right But I didn't blame her. I blamed him. And
of course the older I got when I finally reconnected
with her. I didn't want to bring it up because
I didn't want to leave again whatever, But like, there
came to a point where I did talk about it,
and her reasoning for leaving was weak, you know, of course,
but as a kid, I didn't see it that way.

(09:22):
I saw it as like this man forced her to leave. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (09:26):
Well, because according to her side of the story that
when they broke up, he told her to go away
and you wanted nothing to do with her, And then
he told you that she wanted nothing to do with him.

Speaker 1 (09:42):
It was like four.

Speaker 2 (09:43):
Yeah, okay, I was think six, but four brutal, brutal,
you know, devastating.

Speaker 1 (09:48):
But here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, if for whatever reason, I was, you know, breaking
up with my husband, sure, which will never happen, no, no,
But and he said, well, the children want nothing to
do with you, I'd be like, well that's tough.

Speaker 1 (09:59):
Fuck, yeah, bitch, those are my babies.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
And they can be mad at me for all they want,
or disappointed or sad or whatever, but I ain't going nowhere.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
Those are my babies. Yeah right, But yeah, so I think,
But she.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
Walked away from you after she'd already walked away from
her own her other two, you know, the older ones,
because she just so she left with their stepfather. Who
why wouldn't be leave anybody with that man, you know,
and leaving you with him and knowing what the situation was. Yeah,

(10:35):
she made all kinds of fucked up choices. And one
of the choices I if you don't mind, that I'd
like to talk about, is when you were going to
get married and you were very clear you wanted just
a handful of people there and.

Speaker 1 (10:51):
The venue was very small, and she was like, well,
I want to She didn't tell me she was. She
had already just invited, but didn't she She like, by
your ring? Yeah, yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
She was coming and she was excited and she was
gonna do all this stuff. But then, excuse me, she
invited people that Anika didn't want there.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Yeah, and it was also just going to be too
many fucking people. Yeah, you know right.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Well, so Anaka foolishly put up a boundary and said, no,
I don't want those.

Speaker 1 (11:21):
People there, and you get to tell them that they can't.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
Because you invited them, and that became her going, well
then I'm not.

Speaker 1 (11:30):
Coming and I'm cutting you off and I'm not speaking
to you, and it.

Speaker 2 (11:33):
It was one of the many times that her own
actions got her. You know, in trouble, we'll say we'll
use that and then she took it out on you.

Speaker 1 (11:43):
Yeah, it's like in days before me.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
And that thinking, that thinking is like, well, I'm entitled
as your parent to do whatever i want around your wedding.

Speaker 1 (11:54):
I was like, no, well, and it was like days
before my wedding, and she just freaked the fuck out
and said, oh, you think of me as a cash
cow and you don't even like me, and you just
want money for me. And I was like, I didn't
ask for any of this from you, do you know
what I mean? Like you offered you and my stepfather
offered to pay for this, like whatever. But I was like,
he doesn't give you a full fucking right to just

(12:14):
do whatever you want, right. That's still crazy for me.

Speaker 2 (12:18):
That's kind of like if if I said, well, I'm
going to pay for your college, but only if you
go to the college I want you to go.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
To and study what I think you should study exactly.
It was like, that's not how that worked. That shouldn't
be helped. Either you don't offer or you offer with
no strength listen. And if that was the deal where
she was like, I'll pay for the wedding or whatever,
but I can bite who I want. That would have
been like the negotiation, the negotiation part right of that
whole dealing, and we could have went back and forth.

(12:45):
But the fact that she just started to invite people
Annaka's getting married, you want to come is insane to me, Like, right, bananas? Well,
then to cut you off, yeah, you know, one of
the many times, one of the many times. So this
at this late stage in the game, it has been
years and years and years of the repeated behavior. Yeah,

(13:05):
I mean really, it's shampoo. It's repeat It is the
same thing. It is. Hey, I'm coming back into your life.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
Oh you said something I don't like or you did something,
and I'm gonna know, berate you and talk shit to
you and tell you what a horrible person you are. Yeah,
and then be surprised that you cut me out.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
Yeah. It's like and it is such addict behavior, it
really is, and it's too much. And so this last
time several years and I was like, enough is finally enough,
you know, like I have. We've gone back and forth
and it doesn't seem to work out. But until you
get genuine help, and there's proof of that. I'm all done,
and so I haven't. I've had in contarr like I

(13:48):
don't talk to her, but yeah, it's it's a lot, girl,
It's just a lot because I'm like, obviously in my
mind because pattern seeking behavior, I see like, you don't
have a relationship, you have a relationship, you don't you do?
So now I'm like, oh no, oh no, this whole
pattern of her, and I don't want to have a

(14:09):
relationship if she's going to continue to have that behavior. Right.
But now I'm like, if something does happen where she,
you know, is unable to live or be able to communicate,
I'm like, oh, the idea of a relationship is impossible.
Do you know what I mean?

Speaker 2 (14:26):
I do because there is the thing with all I
think unfinished business, and you know, it's like, well, now
they're gone, and now there can.

Speaker 1 (14:39):
Be no resolution. Now the chance of resolution is off
the table. And I know that.

Speaker 2 (14:43):
I the only reason I didn't feel that with my
father's because I had already resolved with him myself to whatever.
But like with Tea, my husband and his mother, who
was also an addict when we had children, he send
her a letter saying, listen, I would love for you
to be part of my children's life.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
But after you get help, you know.

Speaker 2 (15:07):
And you have to not only quit drinking and using
whatever you're using at this moment, but you also have
to go to see a therapist.

Speaker 1 (15:15):
You have to actually get help. And she died, oh.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Gosh, I'm not even sure how many years ago, but
she died alone and completely unresolved because she chose I
don't know, or the addiction was too strong.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
I do not know.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
I have not dealt with that particular kind of addiction.
I do not know, but I know that a couple
times during that time, he actually saw her, like once
when he went to see his grandmother at the hospital
and she was like, well, can I can I at
least write you letters or something like absolutely, and here's

(16:02):
my po box.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
Uh, not one letter, not ever, you know.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
And it's like, so you talk a big game about
wanting something, but then you don't want to make any
kind of effort. And even if the letter said I,
you know, I haven't started AA yet, or you know,
I haven't started recovery yet, but I'm working on it
or whatever, and I'll keep you in the loop. Whatever, Yeah,
admitting you have a problem. And I remember so clearly.

(16:30):
The last conversation, the big conversation that he had with her,
is he was just trying to get her to accept.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
Some responsibility for her behavior. Yeah, and he was like, my.

Speaker 2 (16:43):
Childhood fill in the blank. You did this and this
and this and this, and I need you to own that.
But she wouldn't even let him speak because every time he's, well,
the past, the past. You can't do anything about the past.
You got to just let the pass go with the past.
The pout, you know, it's like and then at one point,
and so I'm hearing all of this because he's talking
to her in our room. It's just jos and he

(17:05):
was trying. Every time he had tried to talk to talk,
she would interrupt him. And finally she says, I do
want to hear what you have to say, to which
me in my big mouth, I was like, no, she
fucking doesn't. If she wanted to hear, she would stop interrupting.
And so I hear her on the.

Speaker 1 (17:21):
Other end, go, that's not fair.

Speaker 2 (17:23):
It's absolutely fair based on your behavior. I'm just basing
it on what I'm hearing right this moment. You don't
want to hear what he has to say, because then
you might have to accept some responsibility for your behavior
or which.

Speaker 1 (17:35):
Just makes you feel bad and you can't handle.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
That, right, you know, right, yeah, And you know what
that's that's one of the things that I learned kind
of as an adult that it is not the person
who you offended, is not their job to make you
feel better, to lessen your guilt, to go it's okay,
it's not okay, you know, if you apologize, you know, yes,

(17:58):
you can either accept or not accept her apart. But
I know that for a lot of people, when someone
says I'm sorry, they'll say that's okay, but it's not okay. No,
I say, you know, it's like now in my older
I've learned a few things days, I say thank you
or I accept your apology. Not it's all better, No,

(18:19):
it's all good, No, because it probably isn't.

Speaker 1 (18:21):
It probably isn't. No, And I think obviously apologizing is
like the step to making things better if you can.
But then, yeah, you have to mean it. The apology
has to come with change behavior, right, yeah, it because
then I don't believe it's a real apology. No, no, no,
and that's why, you know, I often say sorry, but
mostly if like I'm in your way or i've you know,
I'm reaching for something you're reaching, and it's not like

(18:43):
a true apology, right, it's mostly just saying.

Speaker 2 (18:45):
Oh, it's more like excuse me, yeah, yeah, yeah, but no,
I hate that the.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
I'm so sorry. I had two things to say when
you were talking about go ahead mis mom my birth mother, Becky,
when I was late teens, early adulthood. She would start
doing this thing after we reconnected, once we started talk
about why she left, and she would just break down
and want to sob and apologize and apologize and apologize.

(19:12):
But she wanted to do it every time I saw her,
and I was like, you have to fucking stop, right,
Like you can't keep breaking down and crying and apologizing,
Like you've apologized, apologized, I accepted your apology, Like we
have to move on. You can't keep breaking down and
crying about it. Like if you don't relish we have now,
you're just going to destroy itch. Look where we are.

(19:35):
And so that was the thing that she did. You know,
you bring it up, you give her any responsibility, she
would freak out and then it would turn into like
a ad I dying, like you're not sorry, you're embarrassed,
you know, you don't want to take responsibility and thinking
about like mister T's mom or my mom in the

(19:57):
hospital alone dying. I think sometimes it's just like such
like uh, righteous indignation, like they're like, well, no one's here,
but I'm in the right, you.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Know what I mean, We'll see I knew that nobody
could be here for exactly well and absolutely the last
time Becky freaked the fuck out on me, she was like,
I've just come to terms I'll never see my family again.

Speaker 1 (20:22):
But but you made damn sure.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
You would never see them, right, You moved to the
middle of nowhere, and you cut several states away and
where it's like frozen for half a year, more than
half a year, you know, and you're.

Speaker 1 (20:33):
Not even near a town. So it's like, let's pretend
that you were going to go see her, sure, so you.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
Have to fly into where the fuck ever, Montana and
then drive for hours hours to get there. So it's
like she has made damn sure that she cut because
when her husband died, everybody said, why don't you come
back to Oregon? Everybody, and she was like, nope, this
this was what Fred wanted.

Speaker 1 (21:01):
Well, Fred's dead.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
He's dead, you know, God rest his soul, but he's dead,
and so he no longer should be in the driver's
seat of where you live.

Speaker 1 (21:08):
And if this, and.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
I believe, and I've always believed that this was part
of her thing. It's like, well, I'm gonna test everyone
by moving the middle of nowhere and become a big
fucking martyr. And if I live so far away that
they can't get to me, they're never gonna come see me.

Speaker 1 (21:23):
They're not gonna make the effort.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
Well who would I know, No, I know, And I
mean it is too far away, and she has made
zero effort to be a part of anybody else's life
in a healthy manner.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
I agreed, And I if you remember, I did go there,
I did drive there after, and I went there with
our doubts. I just I think whenever I think about that,
I think of the.

Speaker 2 (21:46):
Person who you heard saying that, you know, the Democrats
are all about, you know, abortion, and like, even for
the first four years after the baby's.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
Born years old, that's just me abortion. What are you
talking about? Yeah? Crazy?

Speaker 2 (22:01):
And I don't know if in Montana. I know, Lorileay
you live there, and I know, honestly we love you.

Speaker 1 (22:06):
You're awesome. Yeah, of course.

Speaker 2 (22:08):
But I don't know why anybody would believe that murdering
a three year old is okay or that it happens. Well,
I just had people go, well it was an abortion. No, No,
that's murder. Yeah crazy, I'm sorry. But if they're old
enough to talk, yeah, bananas. I mean, I don't believe
life begins at conception, but I do believe once they're
outside of your body, yea, once they that all you

(22:33):
and they're a fully formed human.

Speaker 1 (22:36):
And I know you don't want one, like I know
they're gross and everything, but you can't kill it and
just say I just I just really needed an abortion. No,
that's wrong, that's not the right word. Those are the words.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah, that's when you go, I can't take care of
this baby. I'm going to take it to the fire
station or whatever, the hospital. Absolutely, you know, a garage sale,
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (22:56):
Yeah, no, I get a gas sale. I just I
put a little sticker on that baby, and I'm not
gonna bargain for it. It's gonna be ten bucks or nothing.
Ten whole dollars. Gross. But yeah, so that's the situation.
People are gross. Yeah, so that's the situation going on.
Why I'm not sleeping, Why I just feel very my

(23:17):
head feels full of cotton. I just feel very out
of it, very conflicted. There, you know, there are moments
it comes in waves, right, it felt like And this
is the shittiest part of of course, none of these
what I'm about to mention has anything to do with me, right,
But like Grandma going into a home and weeks later

(23:38):
than Becky's dying, and I'm like, can we do one
thing every six months? Can we not like pile it
all up? Yeah? So, you know, again, thinking about Grandma
too hard. I still think about my dog who died
two years ago. I think they're too hard. I'll cry,
So like Grandma, if I think are too hard, I'll cry,
you know. And so now Becka'm just like, I gotta

(23:59):
I gotta find things that just make me feel okay.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
You know so well, and in this particular time in
the world that's few and far between, right already on
top of the world being fucking destroyed by hateful biggest like,
it's just a lot, man.

Speaker 1 (24:12):
So I just I barely feel like a person. Yeah,
but I last night I listed the things that I'm
doing every day. I eat a shower, I take my meds. Yeah,
I drink water. It's good, you know I'm eating. When
Gavin's like, have you had dinner today? Or have you
had food?

Speaker 2 (24:32):
And I'm like, yeah, maybe, I pretty sure.

Speaker 1 (24:35):
I had a cookie for breath. You know what I had.
I had a Do Buy chocolate bar. It was delicio.
It is so good. I ate it while she was
isn't it so good? It's pistache and I like it.
Pistasha and chocolate is good. I don't like peanut butter
and chocolate. Pistachio butter and chocolate.

Speaker 2 (24:50):
It's different, totally different. Yeah, we're those weirdos who think
Reese's peanut butter cups are gross.

Speaker 1 (24:56):
Well, yeah they are.

Speaker 2 (24:57):
There's only like once every six years as I crave
like a bite of peanut butter and chocolate, you know,
and then I'm like no, still.

Speaker 1 (25:05):
For me, it has to be two very specific things.
It has to be dark chocolate and good dark chocolate.
All chocolate has to be dark chocolate, yes, but it
also then has to be a really good quality peanut butter,
not some like nastiness that you're putting in mass in
a candy bar. That's like, you know, the low quality.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
No, I have to have like good peanut butter and
preferably crunchy peanut butter. Yeah, you know, so when I've
made this recipe that is like a peanut butter cup,
it's dark chocolate and Graham cracker and good peanut butter
and whatever, and it's delightful.

Speaker 1 (25:40):
Sure, but yeah, Reese's peanut butter cup. I just can't
you know me either. When we were at Costco yesterday,
which is I love Costco, but going there when you're
feeling like sad, depressed butt head, I'm like, you know what,
I need some madelins. I need. I need this ugly
stuffed animal with Oh my god, she bought the ugliest

(26:02):
it is so it is so hideous it is.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
It's called a fuggler, and there's a reason. Honestly, it
looks like it crawled out of a swamp.

Speaker 1 (26:11):
It's kind of shaped like a dog chew toy, like
a person dog chew toy, but bigger, you know what
I mean, the giant head, the giant and fucking teeth,
and yeah, like and teeth. It actually looked like teeth.
It's really big.

Speaker 2 (26:23):
It's got a mouthful of teeth, and it looks kind
of like it looks like if Oscar of the Grouch
was run over by a car multiple times and then.

Speaker 1 (26:34):
Someone's denture teeth right right, and his teeth teeth, his
eyes are he's really he's moss green. Yeah, his eyes
are half flitted. He's wearing little camel underwear, by the way,
I want you to know that they come off, and
he has a little button where his butthole should be.
But I brought it home and I'm Gaviner unloading groceries

(26:55):
and putting stuff away. So I sat it on the
couch and my little dog, I.

Speaker 2 (26:59):
Mean, is like for me, and she picks it up
in her little mouth and starts dragging it.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
Away like dis it for me? Because it shaped like
a toys bigger. So I have to keep watching him.
They keep licking it like it's not Him's not real,
and him's hideous. He's so cute.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
I know listening I and I you know, I understands.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
Ye right, I have a little miss no name what
she is? Look her up? Yeah, hideous, And I was
just saying the other day.

Speaker 2 (27:31):
How really, what I would love to if I could
be a fly on the wall for anything, I would
love to have been in the meeting where that toy
idea was.

Speaker 1 (27:39):
And we want to stab girl crying and rash. So listen,
dirty panties.

Speaker 2 (27:45):
I want us to produce in mass this doll who
is raggedy because she's homeless.

Speaker 1 (27:53):
Already great ry.

Speaker 2 (27:56):
She's wearing a burlap sack that doesn't even close all
the way. She has a little plastic tear, and she
has she's oh, the big eyed kids. We're gonna jump
in on that bandwagon. So she's gonna be like one
of the big eyed kids. But to make it even better,
she's gonna have dark circles at her eyes because she's
homeless and sleep and she has one hand out begas,
stringy fucking grows hair and no shoes and no shoes

(28:18):
and panties don't really fit and panties and what do
you think should we sell that?

Speaker 1 (28:23):
For Christmas? All the girls will be begging for it.

Speaker 2 (28:25):
And it's like, for whatever reason, whatever genius is, it
has bro We're like, let's do it.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
Let's put let's put the little match girl on sale
for Christmas, and I don't know. Did it do well.
I don't know. I don't think so.

Speaker 2 (28:38):
I mean it did well enough that they're still around
and that now they're a coveted kind of thing. But
they sell for quite a bit on eBay, of course.
And I have one that is in perfect condition that
Annak has told me a thousand times.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
When I die, it's hers and not.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
Are two things not even to try to get everyone,
are two things that are my inheritance. It's a little
miss no name and your full vinyl picture Rocky Hart
picture show.

Speaker 1 (29:01):
Yeah, that's all I want. That's it. What's funny to
me is you I would think that maybe it'd be
like some of my jewelry that's actually worth something. You know,
I'll take that too. But the two things that on
the top of this is a hideous doll I get
first picking.

Speaker 2 (29:16):
So when my nieces were young, like six seven, they
had in their house because their father loves sci fi
and has a huge doll of the alien from the
Alien and xenomoreph Yeah, they had the name, yeah, the aliens.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
Those type of aliens are called xenomores.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Okay, Well, they had one and it looked like the
real thing, even with like the it was like an
art collector toy.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Right, Oh, yeah, it was not a toy. It was
a figurine. Yeah, they were fine with that.

Speaker 2 (29:50):
They saw they were walking down the street one day
and saw a little mist no Name in a store window.

Speaker 1 (29:54):
Entered well, I think because it's because sometimes, like an alien,
you look at that and you're like, oh my god,
that's otherworldly. I will never see that my real life.
You'll call a little miss no Name and it's uncanny,
you know what I mean? The whole uncanny valley thing
where you see like a mannequin that looks too real
or you're like, looks unreal. Do you know what I'm

(30:15):
talking about? Yeah, I love uncanny valley because it makes
me fucking uncomfortable.

Speaker 2 (30:19):
But when when I've never heard that, is that an
uncanny valley? Okay, let me look up the actual term.

Speaker 1 (30:24):
But uncanny valley is when something you're looking at something
and you're like, and when I say something, I mean
like a person, right, a robe or whatever, and you're
looking at it a doll and you're like, it looks real,
but something is off.

Speaker 2 (30:40):
I don't know when got back in the nineties, I
think the early nineties, maybe late eighties.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
Yeah, one of my friends had this doll.

Speaker 2 (30:50):
Her name was I think your name was Cathy, and
she was put out by the same people to put
out Teddy Ruxman.

Speaker 1 (30:58):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
So she was one of the first, like smart kind
of dolls because you would pick her up and she'd go,
are we going somewhere?

Speaker 1 (31:07):
And if you.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
Covered her eyes, she was like, who turned out the lights?
Or she would be like if you different things, like
if the room got colder, she'd be like, it's cold
in here, can you.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
Put on my jacket?

Speaker 2 (31:20):
No, it's like and if you said her name, I
don't think her name was Kathy. I know, I can't
remember her name was. But if you said her name,
she would be like, yes, I don't like.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
So she was a little crazy. It is unsettling because
it sounded like she actually knew what you were saying.
I don't like that.

Speaker 2 (31:39):
But they had this whole program where when you first
got her, there was a list of prompts that you
were supposed to say to her and then so that
she could learn your voice and learn how you said things,
so that if your cadence was maybe different from somebody
else's she would understand that it was you and know
how to respond.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Okay, yeah, I don't like that. I feel like that's unsettling.
You know, I had a ferbie when I was a kid,
I remember, But you would like push its little tongue
button atal, don't you know? You would cover its size
because it had a sensor in its forehead. Yeah, that's
less creepy to me, right when I can see the sensor.
Her name was Julie, Julie fucking anyway. So Uncanny Valley,

(32:22):
it's a phenomenon where human like artificial objects such as
robots or CGI characters illicit feelings of unease, revulsion, or
creepiness rather than empathy. So like this occurs because the
entities are close to but not perfectly human, causing discomfort
when the brain detects subtle flaws in the appearance, motion,

(32:42):
or behavior, which raises but then fails to meet expectations
of human likeness. So like an sister, is you the
polar express the movie? Oh yeah, the Tom Hanks character, right,
very Uncanny Valley, right where things start to characters in
that Yeah, but I hated it. I didn't like that
kind of animation. No, I didn't like looking at any

(33:04):
of them. That woman, I'm showing her a picture right
now of a woman just looks like a woman, but
there's something kind of wrong about her face right right,
about her features. And that's uncanny Valley. It's like what
they say, I've never heard that term. It's because it's
more modern. I don't think it's like only a couple
decades old. It's been her because there's the uncanny x men, right, Okay,

(33:26):
that was what x Men started as as a comic.
They were called the Uncanny x Men. And uncanny means
mysterious or like we can't figure it out. So if
you're the opposite, are you canny? I'm canny? I'm real canny.

Speaker 2 (33:40):
You know, there's a whole lot of words that I
that I think are there if if this is like if.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
You're underwhelmed or overwhelmed, can you just be whelmed? Yeah?
What is opposite? I mean? If if something's uncanny, couldn't
something else be canny? It doesn't sound right, But so
the opposite of uncanny is ordinary or normal? It's not.
But any canny can uncanny be used positively? I don't know?

(34:10):
Can is what is canny? Canny means shrewd.

Speaker 2 (34:14):
Okay, these are look, yeah, I don't know, it's we
are American idioms where it's like, what what does that
even mean?

Speaker 1 (34:23):
Oh? But I love this ship because the other day
I was watching what was I watching? Oh, Stargate SG
one because I'm a nerd, and there was a dog
in it and someone was all sick, sick them, And
I looked at Gavin, I said, why do the people
say that to dogs? What is sick? It's because during
dog training and accent and shortening of words, when you

(34:46):
were training a dog, it was seek him, to seek
your prey, seek what you were looking for. So seek
him became sick and sick. Isn't that crazy? So it
doesn't sick because I've.

Speaker 2 (34:55):
Heard people say, well I'm gonna sick that personal on you.
So okay, going to seek so seeking them out, finding them?
So hunting looking for escaped enslaved people.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
Yeah right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
I remember, many many years ago, I was at the
place where it was a summer camp and this woman
was the mother of one of my friends that I
was in camp. It came to pick up her kids
at a normal time, like most normal parents.

Speaker 1 (35:23):
Did not better anyway.

Speaker 2 (35:26):
But she had her dog with her and I had
very very little experience around dogs because we always had
cats and chickens and rabbits and.

Speaker 1 (35:35):
Every fun you know, everything other other than dogs.

Speaker 2 (35:39):
And so I was asking her. I was like, so
does your dog know like commands and stuff? And she
was like, yeah, he very well trained. And so me,
being the dumb ass who doesn't know anything about dogs,
decided to tell it sick okay, and it came after me.
Wait a minute, No, I don't know what I felt
was going to happen. It's like, who exactly are you

(36:01):
trying to turn the dog on its owners? I mean,
I was a dumb kid.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
I know what I know.

Speaker 2 (36:06):
I love it, you know, that's funny. And then I
have my dogs now who don't understand any.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
Commands other than sit. Yeah, they all know sit. Two
of them know shake. Yeah you know, but that's about it.
Yeah that's great. My my puppy knows more. But we
went to training, so she has very she has more
knowledge and randomly will be all touch, you know, and
she'll come and touch our hand with her nose just
to see if she remembers she does. Emily Jean, my

(36:34):
older girl. She does. I have to be more stern
with her for her or she's just patrol. I know.
In other news, I watched Frankenstein and it was everything
I could ever want and more. Okay, So the director's
name is Germo. I for some reason, I can always

(36:55):
remember his last.

Speaker 2 (36:56):
Name William, but I struggle for sing and the only
name that always pops into my head is of the
actor Benizzio del Toro. And I'm like, that's not right,
that is not right. But Germo del Toro, it's a
beautiful movie.

Speaker 1 (37:11):
Well, he's brill He's tot's brill. I love him. He's brilliant. Sorry,
I'm sorry. I think everybody knew what brill meant.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
Seems like real cream.

Speaker 1 (37:21):
But people like, what, what's a brill? But Mia goth
Adore Mia Goth I think she's fantastic. Oscar Isaac's mmm,
kiss your face, Jacob a Lordie amazing. They're also Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
I I I know that we talked about this a
little bit a few weeks ago because I watched it
and I'm not I don't usually watch horror films.

Speaker 1 (37:46):
And did you think it was scary? No? Yeah, there
were moments I had to close my eyes because of
the of the gore. Gross. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:56):
Well, and when somebody like got thrown across the room
in their head smashed on a marble thing and they
made this is that sound? Yeah, I was like, people,
But I thought it was a beautiful movie, and I
thought that it was such a nice adapt adaptation of
the book, whereas most of the times when you see

(38:17):
a movie, you're like, and you've read the book, it's like, hmmmm,
well they took a lot of liberties there.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
Yeah, you know.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
It's like when I first time I saw the play
of Wicked, I was actually disappointed because I had just
finished the.

Speaker 1 (38:29):
Book and I loved the book. But the book and
the play are like distant cousins. Yeah, the book is
a lot darker. It is a lot darker, and there's
four children.

Speaker 2 (38:41):
No, no, no, And they just got a's vagina in
the book as being purple.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
By the way, well what's wrong with that? A purple
vagina on a green lady.

Speaker 2 (38:56):
But this I thought was such a true adaptation of
Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. And by the way, the movie Mary
Shelley's Frankenstein is also a pretty true adaptation, and I
highly recommend it.

Speaker 1 (39:10):
It is so good.

Speaker 2 (39:11):
I'm currently reading the book and I thoroughly enjoy it.
I'm about a quarter of the way through it, but
I really enjoy it. I started reading it before I
watched the movie.

Speaker 1 (39:23):
But yeah, I think it's brilliant. It's beautiful well, and
it's it's another movie that he's made where absolutely the
human is the monster, because in the Shape of Water
they talk all the way through the movie about this
monster who almost ruined everything and whatever. The monster was
a human man, as it tends to be so.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
But I yes, I think he's brilliant and his movies
are visually stunning, and they're all They're just usually well
done well and.

Speaker 1 (39:54):
I feel like a lot of the stories he often
chooses a story where like the human is the because
also the Pans Labyrinth, the humans are the monsters. You know,
I think he's and I guess because he directed created Coraline,
I think so maybe he did it. I could be

(40:15):
on crack cocaine. You might be I'm smoking the crack cocaine.
But Coraline is such not a little kids movie.

Speaker 2 (40:23):
Coraline is really dark and creepy.

Speaker 1 (40:26):
I enjoyed it thoroughly.

Speaker 2 (40:27):
I also several years ago here at the Portland Art Museum.
They had a lot of the sets and props from
Coraline because it was filmed here.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
It well, I can recognize, you know, I can recognize
outside it looks just.

Speaker 2 (40:41):
Like the movie it was. It was filmed in my backyard. No,
the studio where it was filmed is here in Portland.
But they also did oh god, what's the name of
that movie, Box Trolls and several other movies, so we
got to see props.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
From all of them.

Speaker 2 (41:01):
But the props from Coraline, like the garden prop, is
fucking huge. But yeah, so but that movie Dark, Yeah,
I saw it in theater when it came out in
San Francisco and I was I may or may not
have been on marijuana, was at high and I was

(41:28):
a thing.

Speaker 1 (41:29):
Well it was medical and Mara, oh my god, it
was medical in San Francisco before it was here. And
so I was friends had their cards and they were
going to dispensaries and I was eating cookies. Sure, but yeah,
it was incredible. It was subuki zabuki. I remember seeing
movies talking about going to the movies high. I saw

(41:50):
the movie District Nine in San Francisco and District nine
is about like in South Africa there's aliens Land or something,
and it seems like it's real aliens Land, but then
they are used as slaves or it's something like that.
But I was so like gacked out of my mind
that I'm leaving and I was with my friend Paul,

(42:11):
and I was like, what is that really happening in
South Africa? And then like as I'm walking back to
my apartment. I lived in San Francisco's crowded streets, but
I'm like dodging people like actively, like they're trying to
get me. Yeah, sure, yeah, because I knew how to
handle drugs well.

Speaker 2 (42:29):
So the director of Quarreling's Henry sellek okay, and it
was a story by Neil Gamon. I knew that because
Neil Gamon is the creator of Quarreling and a creep.
He is a creep, which it sucks because his work
is so good. Piss me off, Neil Gamon, Yeah yeah,
piss well. Listen, god, men are awful. Since we since

(42:53):
we started out talking about family dynamics and you know,
cutting off family overers, I wanted to read this am
I the Asshole story because Am I the asshole for
continuing to refuse to attend family holidays because I had
no contact with my brother over a betrayal that happened
five years ago. Okay, now I'm going to tell you

(43:14):
that I did not read it first because I like
to react to it in real time.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Yeah, you know, totally. But I saw that headline and
I was like, that makes me think so much of
what is going on? And my the asshole far continuing
to refuse to attend family holidays because I have no contact.

Speaker 2 (43:29):
With my brother over a betrayal that happened five years ago.
So far, No, Yeah, I thirty three male and having
an issue with my family. They're pressuring me to resume
contact with my brother thirty five mail after I went
no contact years ago. Five years ago, my brother and
I were working at the same company. I had been
there for three years and he had been there for two.
He was hired because I referred him when they were

(43:51):
looking for new employees. When a management position came open,
he and I both applied for it and told each
other that it would be no hard feelings if the other
one got it. He was hired for a position and
I was genuinely happy for him and did not have
any negative feelings about him getting hired. I was proud
of him and thought he deserved it. A few months
after he was hired for the position, my former boss,

(44:14):
who I have a great relationship with, left the company
and asked me out for lunch. He told me in
confidence that the reason my brother was hired over me
was that my brother took an email that I sent
him venting about a work issue, and forwarded it to
the hiring manager to explain why I was not a
good fit for the position. I confronted him about this,

(44:35):
and he admitted it. He said he thinks it wasn't
an underhanded thing to do because it simply showed how
I wasn't meant for management, because that's not how managers act.

Speaker 1 (44:48):
Her brother's an asshole.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
I'm sorry, but if he just went and got hired
on his own, merit fine, right?

Speaker 1 (44:55):
Awesome for you? Good for you, Yeah yeah, yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (44:58):
But you did it by undercutting someone else and throwing
them under this.

Speaker 1 (45:02):
Also, you're not good fit for management, bitch. That's a
horrible thing to do. So I was devastated. I cut
him out of my life completely.

Speaker 2 (45:08):
I told him that he was no longer my brother
and to forget that I even exist. Well, he tried
to justify his betrayal and told me that it wasn't
as serious as I was making out to be. I
refused to be swayed. Despite massive pressure for my family
to make peace with him. Well, I found another job
and I seldom interact with my family due to how
I feel. I was shown very little sympathy for what

(45:31):
he had done to me. The attitude I got for
my family was essentially that it wasn't a nice thing
to do, but he has children to take care of,
and so it was understandable that he'd do anything to
make more money to provide a better.

Speaker 1 (45:42):
Life to them. My mother said this to me, almost verbatim.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Oh my god, so family, because he has children and
you don't, then he's perfectly fine and screwing you over
and being an asshole. He has attempted to contact me
several times over the years, and we once ran into
each other at a store, but I ignored him and
kept walking. He was not invited to my wedding, and

(46:07):
he and his wife have not met my wife or
my firstborn ten months old. My parents have been allowed
to come and visit, but my mother told me that
the holidays aren't right without my family there, and they
have begged me to put the pass behind us and
let this go so that we can be a family
in My wife sides with me and thinks that my
brother is an asshole. We spend Christmas with her family

(46:31):
instead of visiting mine. Am I the asshole for continuing
this grudge? It doesn't sound to me, though, like the
brother ever asked for your forgiveness. He just justified his behavior.
Sorry for the interruption. It was a phone that I
did not shut off because I forgot about it even
being there, because it was the phone that was my

(46:54):
mother's phone, and when she went to.

Speaker 1 (46:56):
Live in the memory care facility, they.

Speaker 2 (46:58):
Were like, yeah, no phones because it will get lost instantly. Yeah,
or you know someone else will take it, or who
knows what.

Speaker 1 (47:03):
Their booty calls. We're going to break them out, right.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
I have a friend whose mother in memory care was
calling nine to one one frequently so she could get
out and they would come, and the ambulance would come
and they would have to take her wherever, and so
the family kept having to go find her at the hospic.
So yeah, not having a phone anyway, back to this,

(47:32):
I don't think he's an asshole.

Speaker 1 (47:33):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
I think what his brother did is not only I mean,
I don't think i'd forgive you either, but he never
asked for forgiveness. And it was super backhanded. It was
very it was very like covert. If you were like, listen,
I don't think you're right for management. No, I think
the whole thing's fucked to be hard. But if I
said to you, I don't think that you're right for

(47:54):
this position, here's why. Then I've said what I need
to say whatever. But to then take this to someone
else and be like, here's why my brother sucks and
you shouldn't hire him.

Speaker 1 (48:05):
Yeah, yeah, that. I want you to know that someone
who's hiring for a managerial position, if a candidate comes
in and says, well, let me tell you why you
shouldn't hire that other candidate, and here's some dirt on them,
You're you're disqualified, right like, because that is not how
managers should act, first of all, and second of all,
you're not trying to get hired on your own merit.

(48:26):
You're trying to throw your uh, the other candidates under
the bus. To me, it's that shows weakness, right, and.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
One of the one of the people comment and said
forgiveness is generally reserved for those who ask for it. Yeah,
the op's brother maintains that he's done nothing wrong and
has never apologized. The brother is untrustworthy and unrepentant. The
parents are toxic for siding with him.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:53):
I mean, if the parents have said, yeah, that was
fucked up, he should have never do to say, well,
he has kids and you don't, so he did when
he needed to do so, cutting your brother's throat to
suit yourself.

Speaker 1 (49:04):
So okay, Yeah, Yeah, that to me is like that's crazy.
It's so funny because I mean, you know, we've cut
off so many people in our family that I'm like,
what cut them off because you want to, I don't know,
like cut them off because you woke up that day
and felt like it, Like I have no qualms of
people who don't want to talk to their family. Listen,
I'm gonna tell you something. Do you like everybody? No?

Speaker 2 (49:24):
No, Because you're born into a group of people who
you share blood with does not mean that you're going
to like them.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
That you have to like them.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
That you have that you even have to care about them.
I'm telling you, You're I'm living proof that you don't
have to. You know, there's so many people, most of
my blood family, I don't talk to, I don't interact with,
I don't care. And that's where I'm at is I'm
just indifferent about most of them, you know. So like
I think this person, I think you should maintain having

(49:56):
no contact with your brother. If that's how you feel,
I would too, you know what I mean. I would
continue to hate my brother as well. Yeah, and actually
probably because I have siblings that I.

Speaker 1 (50:10):
Do not speak to. I don't hate them. It's just
super indifferent. I am completely indifferent to them.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
I will tell you though, when all this stuff came
up with putting my mother in a mental memory care.

Speaker 1 (50:24):
Facility, and.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
I was contemplating as like what to do, who to
you know, make the effort to tell and my two
younger brothers, one who has seen her literally once in
the last eight years and the other who's seen her
I think twice in the last eight years and have
neither one made.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Any effort to ever have any kind of relationship, you.

Speaker 2 (50:49):
Know, I was like, why why would I bother. Why
am I going to make an effort when they don't,
you know, It's like and.

Speaker 1 (50:59):
I don't care. It's not like they're going to go
see her.

Speaker 2 (51:02):
No they haven't. They didn't come see her when she
was at my house. No, they didn't come see her
all this time they could. They didn't invite her to
any of their family things. So why why?

Speaker 1 (51:13):
Why? You know?

Speaker 2 (51:15):
I told two of my nieces. I told my two
brothers who do have stuff to do with her, who
see her on the regular.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
Yeah. And I told a couple of my nieces and said,
tell your family, Yeah, because I don't want to No,
So no, right, And I don't have contact with any
of them, right, But I don't hate them. I would
take too much energy. Yeah, for I mean, for me
lots of things. If I don't like you or love

(51:43):
you or whatever, and I do hate people, it just
burns off into indifference though, because like going back to
the situation I'm in with my birth mother right now.

Speaker 2 (51:54):
You asked me the other day, like if this was
my birth father, would I be feeling the same way
if he was in intensive And the answer is no, right,
Like I don't have any feeling toward him at all,
good or bad.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
I just don't care, you know. And much like the
brother of that, am I the asshole. He's never once
tried to be a decent human being or a father.
So and he one thing I can say about him,
at least he's consistent. Yeah, you know, there is that.
So I never felt like, oh I'm missing a relationship

(52:26):
with him. Never so uh yeah. But I did have
a sister that I fucking hated because I don't know
how you lie about having fucking cancer to your children,
to your grandmother, to your whole family that you play
act having cancer, that you lie about dying, that you
lie about all of that. So that was because we
as a family put in a lot of energy to

(52:47):
be there for her. Yeah. So when we found out
this was all a facade, Yeah, I would would have
put hands on her had I seen her, you know. Yeah.
It made me angry. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, there was
a lot of that.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
So listen, and as the holidays approach, I know that
is one of the things that people really struggle with
because we are told, you know, Christmas and Thanksgiving and
these are like time for family and their time you know,
for whatever. You know, it's like you're supposed to get
to because the Norman Rockball version of Christmas is big

(53:21):
family around the table, everybody you know, enjoying their ridiculously
large dinner with way too much food. The truth of
it is, you put that many people in a room,
there are many people who just don't like each other,
because that's reality. Just because you share some DNA, you know,

(53:42):
as we've talked about many, many times, doesn't mean you're
automatically I don't like anybody, you know. So for us,
I know, it's been much better, much healthier to pick
and choose. Be like, I'm gonna go because like we
usually spend like Christmas and Thanksgiving with my one cousin
who lives enough that we can do that, hut, And
we love them and their children, and they're all weirdos,

(54:08):
so it's great. You know, nobody is judging anybody for
being queer or for being weird, because most of them
are queer, you know, and weirdness fucking that's great, right
with their multicolored hair and their tattoos and their piercings
and their whatnot. And it's like, so we fit right
edd with our multicolored hair, tattoos and piercings and whatnot,

(54:29):
you know, but we don't ever feel judgment there, you know,
and so it's a much better thing for us than
you know. The only other person I would spend time
with like that, if if she lives to Dan far away,
would be my sister who lives in Washington. And that's
been really I haven't been able to go anywhere for

(54:50):
all the years I was taking care of my mother,
especially the last year where it got you. I really
couldn't go anywhere, you know, and and couldn't take her
because if she if it was an overnight thing, things
went all kinds of bad.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
Well, you know, definitely sundowning. She was like, where am I?
Who am I? This is my bedroom?

Speaker 2 (55:11):
But you know, it's like people feel that that is
like you're obliged, you know.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
And I feel that.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
If you, as a grown ass person, don't want to
do something, don't do it. Do it, you know, Or
if you think, well, I'm going to give this a try,
I'm you know, it's been a while since I've seen
my family.

Speaker 1 (55:34):
Maybe I will go, but.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
Have your exit strategy. And I don't mean make up something.
I mean if you get there and it is toxic,
or even if you're just uncomfortable, remember that you have
car keys in your pocket or a bus passer. However,
you got there and get out.

Speaker 1 (55:51):
You know.

Speaker 2 (55:51):
I watched that one movie with what's her name from
Christmas Christmas. I was like, I could come with every
other Christmass like Stuart Lesbian Christmas Hallmark movie.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
I think it is called the Best Time.

Speaker 2 (56:07):
Of the Year or something sure whatever, where her girlfriend
takes her to her family's house for the holidays and
her family doesn't know she's a lesbian, oh god, and
doesn't know that this girl's her girlfriend soon to be
her wife, whatever, And when she gets there, she makes
it real clear that I'm not telling anybody. You just

(56:27):
have to play along with it. And that's when I
would have been all, peace out, girl, scout.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
I'm going home.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Yes, I mean, it's gonna cost me five thousand dollars
for a uber because we're in the middle of nowhere.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
But that's gonna be on your dime.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
For bringing me out here and humiliating me. But that's
also why I make sure I always have some way
to leave escape. I go to a party, I make
sure I drive. Also, I mean, look, I have lived
away from home a lot and have lived away from
home during holidays and it's not a great time.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
It kind of sucks. But I have also had Christmases
and whatever thanksgivings, whatever holidays with friends that I hadn't met,
people who don't have any where I would go. I've
invited friends to our thanks giftings, to our Christmases because
I was, like, they don't have anywhere to go. They're
coming with us, you know, And I feel that feels
more important to me than going and finding someone that

(57:21):
I share blood with them being like, you know whatever,
Like I would much rather hang out with people who
I give a shit about. Yeah, you know, I don't know,
I don't know. Weird weird of me?

Speaker 2 (57:30):
I know well, And my thought is, uh, And we've
talked about this before. If your whole feeling towards me
is that you're just tolerating me because you'll have to
I don't want anything.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
To do, bitch, no talk you. You either like me
or you hate me, but don't. Everyone loves me. So
if you're tolerating me, you have zero fucking tastes, bitch.

Speaker 2 (57:50):
And if I have to be in the same household
with someone who's gonna talk about shit that is diametrically
opposed to what I believe. You know, I'm not going
to be there.

Speaker 1 (58:01):
I'm either not going to be there or this is
the day we're all fighting, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah,
and I want.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
No part I really because you know, that's also what
we've learned in this day and age is you're going
to change nobody's mind. Nobody no, because if you say,
here's why you're wrong, or here's the facts, you know,
like that, there's tons and tons of and we've talked
about this a million times. There's tons of legislation being
written for one percent of the population. Yeah, you know,

(58:27):
it's like, why aren't you focusing on the people who
can't feed their children?

Speaker 1 (58:31):
Fuck them people.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
Why aren't you focusing on the people who are losing
their homes or losing their you know, centuries old farms
or whatever. Why are you focusing on helping people instead
of hurting a very small group of people for real?

Speaker 1 (58:46):
You know.

Speaker 2 (58:47):
So I realized that in this day and age, it's
easier to pick, you know, a group of people that
are going to be unliked by the religious right and whatever.

Speaker 1 (58:57):
Go Look, they're the trouble.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
Yeah there, yeah, and again still not on Jeffrey Epstein and.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
Listen, there are a bunch of people who don't celebrate
the holidays in the traditional way. There's lots of things
you can go do in like the cities you live in,
you know what I mean. There are lots of people
who are alone or gatherings and shit like that that
they do for people in situations such as your family
sucks or you don't everwhere to go look them up,
you know what I mean. And there's also festival like

(59:23):
festive things to do that you don't necessarily need a family.
I am going to say one of my favorite Christmas
things ever was when we adopted a family for Christmas
and bought them gifts and a meal and whatever.

Speaker 2 (59:36):
And on that note, because we're nearing the end of
what we're doing today, I would like to suggest go to.

Speaker 1 (59:42):
Wherever in your town has an angel tree.

Speaker 2 (59:46):
And an angel tree is just a tree where they
have like little ornaments on it with somebody's name, and
in that ornament it has a list of what they
want for Christmas that they if somebody doesn't pick.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
That ornament, are not going to get.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
And oftentimes it's just necessities because a lot of times
these people don't say, well I want a dolt or
I want this that. It's usually like I would really
love a warm winter coat, you know, I would love
some boots or whatever. So if you decide that you
would like to spend some of your hard earned money
on doing a good thing for Christmas and you know,

(01:00:21):
having a little Christmas cheer, find your local angel tree.

Speaker 1 (01:00:24):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:27):
And if you have kids like the age of my kids,
have them pick ornaments off the tree because.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
We've done it before.

Speaker 2 (01:00:33):
We haven't done it in a couple of years, but
they used to have it at their school and so
that was always fun, nothing to do. So, you know,
do something nice for somebody else. I agree, Yeah, And
then you know, it's a.

Speaker 1 (01:00:46):
Great way to have that holiday kind of feeling without
having to deal with toxic people. Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
No, quicker way to ruin a holiday than dealing with
toxic family members.

Speaker 1 (01:00:55):
No, And holidays aren't meant to be fucking ruined. No,
they're meant to have a good time. I'm y'all.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Yeah, eat too much food and get presents that you
have no need of.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Yeah, because, honest to God, if I need it Ilady
bought it. That's what I'm saying. I think honestly, I
think I toyed this idea of like presence. Why like,
why do we get presents anymore? It should be like
here's we're gonna go on a movie day, or I
love that and let's go get dinner. Because I again
buying gifts for people. It's like anymore, somebody want something,

(01:01:28):
they're gonna buy it. Unless I know a rich person
who wants to like buy me something extravagant. I can
buy everything almost on my own.

Speaker 2 (01:01:36):
All right, So before we cut out here, what what
one extravagant thing would you want?

Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
Oh? God see? And I don't want for nothing. I
don't want anything, girl, I don't want anything. I don't
know if there's well one extravagant thing. Ooh well, I
think that if someone wanted to pay for me to
go to Disneyland, right, and I mean not having to
fly so I get to be in like a luxury
fucking be driven Cory, and I can sleep and shower

(01:02:05):
and poop and pee love it, you know what I mean.
And everything is on them tickets, all the merchandise I want,
all the food. I want all the stops I want
to make. That's what I want. So, you know, billions
of dollars I see now that to me sales like
a cool you know, a great ory. And I'm they're
buying things like I want this and this and this,
but it's all just presents for other people, being like, no,

(01:02:27):
I really need that, I will say, because you know,
we talk about all the time that we love Disneyland.
Have been million times.

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
I don't generally buy stuff at Disneyland because it is
too expensive, you know, and I.

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
Will buy like a thing.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
Sure, I will buy myself a souvenir, but it has
to be a practical souvenir for me, like a jacket
that all wear or something that I will actually use
because it's just something I'm gonna hang on the wall,
probably not gonna really appreciate it, because that's me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
You're just a hater.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
No, I'm just it's hard for me to spend money
on stuff that is like because I am for years
was a collector of stuff and now I've like paired
that way back. But that's so if anybody wants to
spend a lot of money on us, buy us a trip.

Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
To Disney Leon I'm saying, in.

Speaker 2 (01:03:14):
Like some luxury motor home kind of thing where we
stop at hotels every girl, every day whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:03:22):
And it could be a caravan, because I'm not having
all of us in one. No, no, it would have
to be a caravan. Yeah, Gab and I will have
our own with our babies. And then when we wed
also have to bring our dogs. Well, and that's the thing.
When we get to where we're going, though, we can
I can rent like a giant airbnbi. This rich person
can rent a giant Manta in Anaheim, right, because we're

(01:03:43):
again paying for nothing. I'm paying for nothing. It's well,
you say all expense paid trips. When you said, what
is the most extravagant gift you want? Yeah, I told
you there, we are here, we are all right. So
it's on her list, it's on her angel tree list. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
So also, you know what I would like. I would
like for y'all, anybody to send us an email and
tell us.

Speaker 1 (01:04:05):
What you want for Christmas. Yeah, and we're not gonna
get it. I'm not gonna buy your ship, but I
would like to hear I wish.

Speaker 2 (01:04:12):
For Yeah, yeah, there you are, so send that to
It would seems the gmail dot com and then you
can listen to us every single week because our show
comes out every Wednesday.

Speaker 1 (01:04:21):
It does, It does whether you want it to or not.
It's gonna be here, bitch. We're gonna be roaches, share
and us. That's about it. That's it, all right, We're
all done. Yeah, all right, we'll see you later. Bye.
It would