May 8, 2025 • 48 mins
Money makes the world go 'round - and many heads to spin. Fears and traumas related to money are commonplace and may lead us to make poor decisions - or indecision - which negatively affect our lives. Liana talks to financial planner Natasha Janssens about finding the root of your money trauma and tips to control and overcome your financial fears. Check out Natasha's book Wonder Woman's Guide To Money
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The views expressed in the following program are those of
the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of
SAGA nine sixty AM or its management.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
The following program is a peer to peer advice show
and does not diagnose mental health conditions. If you're seeking
social services, please call or text two to one one
or go to two one one dot CA. Hello listeners
around the world on radio, streaming and podcast services. This
is not therapy. I'm Leanna Kerzner, and I am not
(00:30):
a therapist, but I am your source for navigating the
madness of mental health. Use my top ten sayings for
going good crazy. This week, we're talking money drama, trauma
and money, money and trauma, some combination of money and
or trauma, because well, okay, it's impossible to avoid the
news lately. Right every day it's some new headline about
(00:52):
some financial chaos and I'm not even gonna give examples
because it may have changed between like now and the
last time I looked at four coup So I've got
an expert on money management. Natasha Jansen's on for the
interview later, but first, let's unpack our internal financial screaming.
(01:13):
Money stress cuts deep. That's an understatement, because well, we
need money to live, but success is also connected to
our self esteem, our identity. So sudden shocks, losses and investments,
having to take a job that earns less money, changes
in financial circumstances, or even income bracket, these things can
(01:37):
really hit us hard in the proverbial squishy bits. You know. Yeah,
I can hear those of you who don't have investment
portfolios protesting that you're having trouble even paying your bills,
and I hear you. Like I said from the start,
this stuff cuts deep. I can't think of anything more
(01:58):
personal to talk about. Money insecurity might be more difficult
to talk about for some people than sex, but for
you know, some people, money goes beyond stress. It goes
beyond embarrassment into full blown trauma. Financial abuse is a
(02:21):
thing for one. Economic abuse is something that is, you know,
somewhat widespread. You'll hear things about, you know, elder abuse,
but you know it happens in domestic relationships, even among
friends taking advantage of you know, your good nature. A
lot of people like me, who didn't grow up with
(02:45):
much money have had a very bumpy relationship with the stuff.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
It takes a lot of work a lot of effort,
a lot of pain, a lot of mistakes to change
your relationship with money.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Certain things about money still freaks me out. I went
shopping recently. Okay, it was the bay closing the sale. Right,
It's like, Okay, saved a lot of money, but spent
a lot of money too. I haven't really bought proper clothes, like,
I haven't updated my wardrobe since COVID, like since before COVID,
(03:27):
So it's like six years old, right, and hit without fail.
Whenever I spend money on clothes, Guaranteed, I'm gonna get
hit with an unexpected emergency expense. It I don't go,
oh my god, it's gonna happen. But every single time,
like I don't even believe in this stuff. It's like,
(03:49):
why what did I do? This time? I scratched my glasses,
and my glasses are freaking expensive, so I just lost
my ish lost it right now. Apparently they're under warranty,
and God, because I can't afford it, I envy those
people who can go get like the ninety nine dollar glasses. No,
(04:09):
my prescription is too complicated, and I'm for sure they're
under warranty. I'm hoping, right, I can't afford to replace
these things, but I need to replace them. I see
the stupid scratches all the time, But I mean, this
is simple compared to stuff like real estate investments, retirement planning.
(04:32):
I wasn't raised with awareness of any of this stuff.
It was just get a job with benefits, and the
job with benefits world. I mean, good luck with that
that world shrinking in some sectors, it's gone, and I'm
(04:53):
finding myself now sponsoring events, doing charity fundraisers. I have
moments of who is this person? What? What is my life?
It's so easy to just be cheap and hide in
that mantra current afford it, right, you hear that. It
drives me crazy. People in these three thousand foot like
(05:15):
square foot homes in the suburbs, all those ridings that
flip conservative the last election. They're in these giant homes
and care and afford it. They probably say can't afford it,
because well they really can, They just don't want to.
It feels tough to go. I can't afford that, right.
(05:37):
But the flip side of that, the reason they're living
in these big homes and going can't afford it is
we live in an image obsessed culture, where how you look,
where you live, how big your house is possibly matters
more than what you know or how hard you work.
But you also have to spend money to money. That
(06:01):
is true, but there are a ton of scams out
there these days, and learning as you go the way
I did when it comes to money management is terrifying,
and the tough times they mark you. And I know
I'm doing a lot better than a lot of people
are these days, So I don't want to make this
(06:21):
about me, because everyone's pain on this topic is, like
I said, so deeply personal. There's so much raw out
there these days. It's okay to want better for yourself,
but it's also okay to not be where you want
it to be because the world blew up, then fell apart,
then blew up again, and it's landed especially bad on
(06:43):
Generation Z. If you think you need it, it's absolutely
okay to ask for help with money things. In fact,
a financial advisor is a good person to connect with
sooner as opposed to later. Not sure what a financial
advisor does well, I've brought one on as a guest.
Natasha Jansen's will join us after the break to discuss
(07:04):
how trauma affects your relationship with money. It's gonna be great.
I love it. Do you have a story you think
would be a good idea for the show. Are you
interested in sponsoring the show? Sponsor money? See I ask, oh,
that guts me every time I do it, so weird.
Leanna at not Therapyshow dot com. Not Therapyshow dot com
is my website at not Therapy Show on socials. We'll
(07:27):
be back money trauma, trauma, money after this and it's not.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Therapy, no radio, no problem. Stream is live on SAGA
ninety six am dot C.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
The following program is a peer to peer advice show
and does not diagnose mental health conditions. If you're seeking
social services, please call or text two to one one
or go to two one one dot CA. We're back
in as the therapy. I'm Stillleanna curs and I'm still
not a therapist. We're still talking trauma and money and
(08:02):
it is the interview this week. As I said off
the top, we have Natasha Jansen excuse me, finance expert,
founder of Women with Sense and the author of the
book I love this title, Wonder Woman's Guide to Money,
The Busy Woman's Guide to money management and wealth building. Natasha,
thanks for coming on. It's not therapy.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited
about this conversation.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Awesome, I am too, because I mean this is a
big topic, right and obviously everybody has some triggers when
it comes to money. Now, you came at it from
very personal experience. You've been through a lot in your life.
So how did you initially become interested in the idea
of early life trauma or adverse childhood experiences and money habits.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
It was a real evolution for me. Actually, So I
grew up in Eastern Europe, so until the Ende of
eighteen really wore poverty, you know, economic instability, that was
the reality was all I knew. And it was always
my dream to one day move to someplace like Australia,
which I finally one day managed to succeed at when
I was eighteen years old. And so I from there
(09:11):
I kind of really fell into the land of accountancy
and from their financial planning, mortgage breaking. I really wanted
to understand everything that there was to do with money
because I noticed, you know, even growing up in Serbia
that sort of it was sort of seemed to be
like those who understood all these systems and how things
worked that sort of managed to do better. So I
just wanted I set out to sort of understand as
(09:32):
much as I could about it, and then I wanted
to share that knowledge and help others around me. And so,
working as a financial planner, what I began to realize
is that, you know, as much as I tried, I'd
put together plans for people, I wrote a book, I
ran webinars, I did everything I could, many people still
weren't creating any real change in their lives. You know,
they'd have a plan, but they just wouldn't stick to
(09:54):
it or it would go off the rails quite quickly.
And that then got me interested into why was that happening?
So I then opened the Pandora's box of economic psychology
and looking at behavioral finance and what is it that
drives our behaviors? And the more I started to work
in this space as a money therapist and a money coach,
(10:14):
I began to notice that common thread of just how
much our childhood's impact the way we view ourselves, the
way we view the world around us, and the way
we view our relationship with money and the habits that
formed from that, And so yeah, that's sort of how
it came to be. It certainly wasn't something that I
set out to do from the get go, but just
the more I learned about it, the more I realized,
(10:35):
this is sort of the part that we really need
most focus on.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, because you've connected it to attachment styles, right, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
So looking at it from a few different angles, But
certainly our attachment styles also play a part in that
because really looking at the way that we bond with
others and the way that we deal with the relationships
around us, and the way that we cope with stress,
all of that translates to how we use money, because
we use money to self soothe, right, so all of
(11:03):
that ends up being interconnected.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Right, And I mean financial avoidance is an obvious one, right,
Like people just that's too big, so I'm not going
to look at it, and they get into trouble, the
debt piles up. Impulse spending, how does that connect to attachment?
Would that like connected to anxious attachment?
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Look, what I've found is that impulse spending takes place
when any emotion gets too much. Okay, so that could
be that anxiety and the overwhelmed, So then we make
an impulsive decision just to make that anxiety go away.
I just want to be done with that, right. It
could be you know, anger, could be sadness, frustration, feeling powerless,
(11:44):
any number of things. But the impulsiveness comes when those
emotions are just too much for us and we just
get reactive. And then how we get reactive that then
depends on what were the other habits that we formed,
how did we learn to cope with certain situations. So
for some people, you know, we might end up if
we're an avoidant, if we want to escape, we might
(12:05):
then book a holiday. It's like I just need to
get myself out of this situation. I just want to
do with it. But if we're there and our focus
is around people pleasing, we might compensate over over doing
things for others and just sort of wanting to gain
that acceptance. So it can play out in any number
of different ways.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
And shame figures heavily in how people spend money, right,
I mean, I know my own upbringing, there was the
sphere of debt in my family, and obviously you can't
grow well without taking on some debt. I mean a
mortgage is debt, but it's the sort of debt that
actually works for you, you know sometimes. This was a big
change of my thinking that sometimes it's better to take
(12:46):
on debt than spend money you have based on interest
rates and a whole, you know, bunch of very complicated factors.
This is why we have financial planners, money managers and
so on. But the psychology of taking on debt is
definitely something I had to learn. So for people who
(13:08):
might not have grown up with much, whose sort of
the idea of debt is very scary, the idea of
having five figure debt is even scarier. I mean, now
it's six figure debt to afford a house. How do
you start with somebody where it isn't just unease, it's trauma.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Yeah, yeah, Look, it starts off and regardless of what
their challenge is, whether it's around debt or around something else.
The approach that I found to be most effective is
we start, first of all by looking backwards. So I'll
typically get clients to write down like a chronological biography,
looking at it through a little bit of a lens,
through finances. But money overlaps so many things, so we
(13:49):
start to look through what were their life experiences. What
were the emotions that were attached to those particular memories,
and then we start to notice trends and patterns and
beliefs that started to form. So you really, in order
to shift something around shame or around fear of having
debt or whatever it might be, we need to understand
(14:09):
where that fear stems from and what is it really about.
You know, has something happened in the past that made
you think that, Okay, if I go and take on
this step, then there's going to be a series of
negative events that all take place. Did you observe someone
going through it? Were there times in your life where
people just told you that nothing will ever come of you,
(14:30):
You know, you won't be able to succeed and what
you set out? Maybe that fear is then that going,
do I actually have what it takes to succeed in
this plan that I have set out? So we need
to have that context and understanding to what it's about.
When it comes from, then you can start to challenge
those beliefs because you can go, well, based on that situation, well,
was that really you know, that might be one story
(14:52):
that I made to make sense of the situation as
to this is what this means. But are there different
ways to look at it? And one way that can
be really power to shift someone's thinking is I say
to them, change the buyer, because you have your name
sitting there at the top. So put the name of
someone that you really admire, like maybe it's Oprah, maybe
it's a friend, maybe whoever. Put a name of someone
you admire and read that again, and you'll notice just
(15:15):
how much differently you view all those experiences that this
person had overcome. Suddenly they weren't being fools or irresponsible
or whatever it is. Suddenly they're, oh my gosh, they're resourceful.
They've had all these challenges come their way, and look
they've managed to go and succeed and they've tried again
and picked themselves up and all of that. So, starting
to look at it from a few different ways, we
start to smash that thinking. Once we start to introduce
(15:38):
a little bit of a seed of doubt to belief system,
it becomes easier to let it go.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Now. The other thing with women, uniquely is that idea
of risk and threat. We're trained by society to just
stay safe, and that has a negative impact when it
comes to as somebody who started multiple businesses, some of
them work, some of them didn't. That idea of taking
a risk and possibly be wrong, that's sort of existential
(16:05):
for women, right, because the way we're trained by society,
how do you teach calculated risk or healthy risk as
opposed to just what some people do and just throw
the doors off and start being reckless and finding out
the hard way. That's not good either.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Yeah. So, and look, that's a really interesting point because
we actually have a really strong fear response around money,
both men and women, because money at its core is
attached to our survival. You know how you get food
and shelter, right, so we'll automatically get have a really
strong fear response to anything that takes us out of
our comfort zones. Then you start to overlay those natural
(16:46):
instincts with what you just mentioned, which is societal conditioning
as well as to what are you capable of. You
know best that you play it safe and sort of
do x, y and Z in. So the way that
I would address that is by first all you want
to start taking small steps of practicing imperfection and practicing risk,
and that can be in areas that aren't related to money.
(17:09):
Had I've said to clients, you know, I'll often give
people tasks as far as doing a little bit of creativity.
I find that as we become older, we sort of
lose that creative part of ourselves. And a common objection is, well,
I'm not a good artist and I don't know how
to draw well, so we go, let's practice imperfection. Doesn't matter.
Practice drawing something badly, right, Go draw, take a coloring
(17:31):
and book and draw outside of the lines, right, and
do it messy, just getting used to that whole thing around.
It doesn't have to be perfect. That's a big thing
for women as well. We're sort of condition that it
all has to be perfect. And then we translate that
to investments, Right, it has to be the perfect investment, right,
But there's no such thing as a perfect investment, right,
So we need to get comfortable at being imperfect. Then
(17:54):
we look at, Okay, if there's an investment that I'm
wanting to take, let's look at how much risk I
afford to take, Like from a financial perspective, how much
can I afford to risk? But also from an emotional perspective,
what is it that I need in order to feel safe?
Do I need to have a mound saved up. Do
I need to say, well, I'm only going to put
this portion with this investment. Do I need to research
(18:18):
it a little bit more? Right? And then we sort
of go and start to take those little baby steps.
But yeah, coming at it from a few different angles
ends up being the key to really shifting that.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah, there's a reality of it was just expensive to
be a woman too. With influencer, second, Instagram, TikTok, all
that stuff, it's really easy to throw a lot of
money at, you know, one click purchases and not plan
because I mean there is so much pressure when somebody's
got a twenty thousand dollars face and you're comparing yourself
(18:48):
to that online money can sort of disappear shockingly quickly,
And does that tie into your idea of practicing and
perfection that hey, that is a priority for that person,
It's not a priority for me, And I'm allowed to
have my priorities absolutely.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
So getting comfortable with running your own race, which is
really challenging now when we have social media in our face.
I mean, we're naturally why to want to fit in
and do what everyone else is doing. But it's just
been oh, it's just exploded right with social media everywhere,
and it's all that perfection, it's all perfectly curated. So yeah,
giving yourself permission to run your own race. Getting curious
(19:29):
around what it is that's making me feel like I'm
not enough unless I have hair that looks like this,
or unless I have the perfect nails, or whatever it
might be. Because again, when we look at it as far
as from a gender lens, you know, men have been
trained that it's their job to provide and to protect,
so they're being conditioned to be comfortable with risk taking.
(19:52):
And for women and for girls. I look at my
daughter who's eight years old and already and even though
she doesn't have her own phone and access to social media,
this it still getting to her as far as constant
feeding of you need these perfect nails, and that all
comes at a cost. Right, So we then look at
how much time do we as women spend on making
ourselves look perfect. That could be time I could be
spending researching, investments, starting a business. Instead I'm spending an
(20:15):
hour before I've even gotten out the door on my appearance.
Then we add to that how much money are we
putting towards achieving that look, whereas I could take a
fraction of that money and put it towards something else.
So I used to say to women, and this would
sort of trigger investors, because when you're a pure investor,
(20:36):
you know you want to reduce the cost of the investment,
you want to reduce your brokerage fees and all those
sorts of things. But I'm looking at it from a
perspective of I just want you to shift your habits.
So I used to say to women, I'm like, go,
if you have that fifty dollars that you were going
to spend on a handbag or a nails or whatever,
go and just buy a share, Buy whatever you can
without fifty dollars. Just go. And so the investors would
(20:58):
lose their minds because now spent an extra ten or
twenty dollars in brokerage on top of it. But I'm going,
but you would have spent that money anyway on a
handbag that you weren't going to use. You go and
buy those shares. You're learning something. You're now watching that
money grow, or you're getting the experience of the volatility.
That's still an investment in yourself in a different way. Right,
(21:19):
So yeah, really starting to question everything that we have
been taught because we're at a disadvantage at the moment
in that technology is so powerful at exploiting our natural
instincts and vulnerabilities. We have to be taught and practice
and train how to disconnect from that and to go, Okay,
this machine knows how to get to me. It knows
(21:41):
now when I'm having a bad day. It knows, oh hey,
maybe this all thing will perk you up to actually
go back and go, actually, what is my bad day about?
Let's connect back with me and what do I really
feel right now. Work with so many clients who, for example,
loneliness and disconnect is it? You know, it's growing And
they say, well, if that's what I'm feeling right now,
and I take the time to observe that, then once
(22:04):
I've acknowledge it, I'll go and pick up the phone, right,
I'll go for a walk, Wren. I'll actually meet that
need in a way that will actually heal me long
term as opposed to that impulse purchase that will have
a fleeting sort of experience of joy, and then we'll
be back to the state where I was so again,
starting to disconnect from technology from social media and tune
(22:26):
back into ourselves, into our bodies and noticing what is
it that I'm feeling, what is it that I truly
need right now? And that'll then start to pay that
way towards running your own race as well.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
On the subject of your own needs versus other people's needs,
I want to talk about money relationships for first. I
want to go to break everybody Natasha Jensen's finance expert,
founder of Women with Sense, author of Wonder Woman's Guide
to Money. Love that title. We are talking about early
life financial habits, relationships, all that good stuff. More on
(22:56):
that when we come back and it's not therapy. Questions
comments concernedly at notherapyshow dot com, not therapyshow dot com
website with contact form at not therapy show on social media.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Back in a bitstream US live at SAGA nine six
am dot CA.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
The following program is a peer to peer advice show
and does not diagnose mental health conditions. If you're seeking
social services, please call or text two to one one
or go to two one one dot CA. We're back
in this not therapy. I'm Stillleana Curzoner. I'm still not
a therapist. We're talking trauma, money, life, everything with Natasha
(23:42):
Jansen's finance expert, finance coach, founder of Women with Sense
ce NTS, and the author of Wonder Woman's Guide to
Money Now. Natasha, it tas before the break that we're
going to talk about relationships and money because nothing tests
any relationship hip like money. Been married for twenty five years,
(24:04):
so I've been through quite a bit. My husband and
I have very very different money habits and it clashes sometimes.
But I've also seen a lot of families torn apart
by things like inheritance. People get ugly when it comes
to money. Big question, But where do we start going?
(24:25):
What the heck is going on here?
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Yeah? Well, look, if you're in a relationship, I think
taking the time to get to know first of all
yourselves and your own relationship with money, and reflecting on
that past and then having a chat with each other
and even with your kids. You know, what was life
like growing up and starting to look at and what
were the what is the meaning that you took away
from all of this? So it's one thing to look at,
(24:49):
Oh these are the things. Oh my father used to
always say, money doesn't grow on trees or is but
what is the meaning that you took away from it?
Because it's more that that will effect than what you
went to did as a result of it. So starting
to understand each other and coming at it from a
place of compassion, because the reason why money is such
a trigger and relationship is because money is tied so
(25:10):
closely to our sense of self worth and our sense
of safety. And so what happens then is there will
inevitably something that our partner does that will affect one
or both of those things, and that then creates a reaction.
So when we think about inheritance being such a big
(25:31):
thing and relationships getting into fight, that at the heart
of it is how much was I worth to them?
Like is this the meaning? Like oh my gosh, and
I did all these things and this is all that
I got while this other person got that it's affected
my sense of worth, right, So it's really starting at
that and going and noticing, Okay, so when my spouse
(25:51):
does this and it affects me in this way, what
is that really about? And then communicating that need in
a time and place were not being reactive because we
often don't talk about it, and then those emotions get
overwhelming and then we get impulsive, right, and we might
impulsively spend or do something, or we might impulsively say
something in the heat of the moment, whereas we want
(26:12):
to go, well, okay, that really upset me, gosh, what
was that about. I'm going to go for a walk.
I'm going to sit with this for a bit and
then talk to that person. So, as an example, I've
worked with a couple where and look, this will often happen.
You might have had sane or similar childhood experiences. You
might have both come from poverty, but you would have
taken away two different sets of meanings and responses to
(26:34):
that situation. And then the tuger war happens when one
person's response is triggering the other person because you go,
oh my gosh. So, for example, I've worked with a
couple where for the lady in particular, money was the
way that love was shown growing up, So it was
never set through words. There was never physical affection, but
(26:57):
money and gifts were how she felt loved relationship. She
really views, Okay, well I need my spouse to buy
me gifts and surprises on a regular basis, and that
is how then I'm going to feel loved. Now if
her spouse is not aware of that, he then each
time he tries to set a budget, his pressure is
I have to provide for us. I'm trying to show
(27:17):
love through providing and through protecting. But he's triggering her
because he's withholding a gift. So in her mind, her
interpretation is he loves money more than me. These things
are more important than what I am. Not at all
the case. He's trying really hard to show love in
the way that he was taught as far as offering
that protection and safety and security. So unless the two
(27:39):
of them have that conversation, they'll continue to live in
their little silos of each interpreting each other's behaviors, misinterpreting
them and then responding in that way, and that then
creates that greater divide. So we have to start with compassion.
We have to go, okay, that's the story that I talk.
This person behaved because of this. Let me actually step
(28:01):
away from it and get curious and go, how come
this is so important to you? What is it about
that to you? And then you'll start for on the
same page. So yeah, So in the case of the
lady where gifts were really important, to her. We sort
of discussed and said, okay, well, that can also be
unsustainable because also part of that element was the element
of surprise. If you're now expecting that every day, then
(28:21):
that's also going to lose as effect. What are other
ways that the two of you can reconnect emotional and
what are other ways that you can show lum And
that becomes really important too, because going on a financial
journey together, setting goals, doing anything together, it's going to
involve compromise. You're not going to get there while you
don't feel like you're on the same team. That's right,
(28:43):
You have to start from the beginning, reconnect, bond again,
start to feel like you actually care about each other.
Then we recommence these conversations around what does this mean
for you? Why is this goal so important to you?
What worries you about this? How can we then do this.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Together and tell me if I'm right or wrong here?
I find that some people have the best of intentions
regarding that protecting the other person from money stress, so
they just won't tell the other spouse about something. One
of the first pieces of merital advice from an older
woman I ever got was hide money, and it was
(29:19):
like well that's okay, I guess that's generational. It was
strange to me. It's like, why would I do that?
But the instinct does come up when things get tough
and you're feeling criticized for a purchase, if you happen
to be not the higher income earner, or there's a
(29:40):
power struggle, or you are the higher income earner and
you don't want to worry the other partner. These are
well meaning things, or they're self defensive things, but they
can still cause real problems.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I mean again, your behavior is
you'll show that stress in other ways as well, and
you start to spill over. But at the end of
the day, it's then about trust, right, So it's then
going the other person's going to eventually react and go, well,
you didn't trust me to be there for you, you didn't
trust me not to judge you, you didn't trust me
(30:14):
to I didn't have a chance to respond and be supportive. Right,
So that then can become a really hard sort of
event to recover from, right, to start to regain each
other's trust and do that. But also a lot of
people will do it because there's such a sense of
shame of I have let people down or they're going
to think that to me. You don't want them to
(30:35):
think less of me for having done this. But again,
it has to start with that self compassion, with understanding
that these events took place for a reason, and that
you were doing the best that you could with the
tools that you had and the knowledge that you had.
And now let's go. Now. You touched on as well
as far as women sort of being advised to hide money.
(30:56):
So it is that catch twenty two of looking at
how do we, particular as women, if we are financially
dependent on our spouses, how do we protect ourselves against
domestic violence and financial abuse and all those sorts of things.
So I agree that we need to maintain access to
our own money and maintain access to our capacity to
(31:17):
earn money.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
But that's not the same as hiding it. Yeah, that's
the thing.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
Keeping it sept that versus hiding its existence altogether are
two different things. So if you notice that there's something
in your relationship where your gut instinct is saying that
I need to keep this a secret, that's a flag
for you that there's something else going on in the
relationship too, right, that there's bigger things there at play,
apart from just where that money is sitting, that need
(31:44):
to be addressed one way or another.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Yeah, And I mean that's true not just in marriage's
rate of romantic relationships, it's true in families as well. Right.
If you've hit a point in your family where someone's
saying you're out of the will and that becomes as
leverage point, that's the sign of much deeper problems, and
that can be absolutely crushing for people to find out
their family wasn't what it was at the time. I mean,
(32:08):
if you're talking about a well, it means that somebody
probably doesn't have a lot of years left. So in
instances like that, where it is a crisis, something's gone wrong,
you're in it. Now, what what do you recommend for
people when they find themselves in spots like that?
Speaker 4 (32:30):
Yeah, well, I guess we're looking at it from the
point of view, what is then the outcome that we're seeking? Really, so,
I think especially as far as well as it's such
a topic that everyone feels so uncomfortable about and is
so emotionally changed that families often don't discuss it upfront,
and then it's left to be dealt with later then
(32:52):
it starts to create a rift because everyone's making assumptions
as to why it played out in the way that
it did. So my advice to family is, wherever possible
is have these conversations up from let them know and
go look for these reasons. You know, we're wanting to
do X, Y, and Z, and this will go to
this person, this will go to that person, and if
need be, maybe we need to have a family therapy session,
(33:13):
maybe we need to have someone in the room to
support and facilitate those conversations. But as much as that
can seem like a cost now, it's far more cost
effective to do that now and resolve it than to
be tied up in the courts later trying to argue
over well, this decision needs to be reversed and this
outcome wasn't right. So again, all of it comes back
(33:33):
to that having that open conversation. But that requires vulnerability,
and we've just seen money is so closely tied to
our sense of self worth, so it becomes really tricky
for people to be able to do that successfully. But
I think you know, as a stepping stone, it can
be worth while getting a family therapist in the room
and having that conversation there.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
It also comes from experience too. If you don't have
experience with those large sums of money, the first time
you go through it, you make a lot of mistakes.
I mean the first time you get that bill from
the probate lawyer because she called them twenty times and
they build you for every single call. You're not gonna
do that again. You're gonna sit and wait and just
let the process work.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
But these are intergenerational things where if you grow up
in a family with an understanding of that kind of money,
you have some guidance. As opposed to people who grew up,
say in poverty or even lower middle class, there was
just nothing but debt to inherit that you don't know
what you don't know. So for people going, I don't
(34:37):
even know where to begin. I didn't come from anything.
I've done well for myself, but I think I can
do better what you know? How does someone identify negative
patterns you know that they don't know about and build
sort of the confidence that they are making the right choice.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
Mmm. So I I think all that stems from starting
to create goals with intention, not just around. Look, I
want to buy a property, or I want to pay
off debt, but looking beyond that to go what type
of a lifestyle am I trying to create? The more
specific we can be around what it is we're trying
(35:17):
to do and why, then the plan kind of falls
out from that, right, and then the confidence comes because
at the moment we live at the age of information,
there's too much information, there's too many voices. Wherever you go,
everyone will have an opinion. And then we go into
online forums and social media groups and now there's a
million people you don't know saying you should do this
(35:38):
and you should do that. That really starts to then
erode your confidence because you don't know what was the
right move. So the answer is there is no cookie
cutter approach, there is no best move. It's around what
is it that you want that is going to bring
your joy? So coming back to that whole running your
own race, getting as specific as you can about what
(35:59):
you're wanting to do, achieve the time frame you want
to achieve it in. Then you start to break down
how much money do I need to do that? And
then notice if you're getting into a problem solving mindset
or if you're getting into a sort of putting yourself
into a victim state mindset where I'm just saying it's
not gonna work because of this reason or this reason
(36:19):
or this reason that already there without you doing a
lot of self discovery, you will flag for you what's
my biggest challenge is I'm focused on what could go wrong,
not what is within my control to change and what
could go right. So if that's the case, then that
is where I start with building my confidence and focusing
on that and saying, okay, well right now, sure, these
are all problems and obstacles. Let me pick one of
(36:41):
them and say what support is available to me to
overcome it, what is within my control that I can
do to go and overcome it, and then start to
work that way.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Last question tied into that if somebody's got a disconnect
between sort of those aspirations. I always wanted to own
a home, for instance, right, and a lifestyle that it
doesn't make sense to own a home if you're going
to be moving every year, You're just going to be
losing money on every closing cost. Right, So how does
somebody get out of this idea of successful people own
(37:15):
a home when your success has taken you in another way.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Yeah, and look, and that is I feel like it's
a common myth that's emerged, and we have a saying
here rent money is dead money, and all that were.
In actual fact, most of the financially successful people I
know actually rent because as you just said, there's that
cost to buying and selling you time, especially if it's
happening frequently. That is money that you could be putting
(37:41):
towards starting a business, investing, doing other goals. It'll get
you to where you want to go. So if the
disconnect is there is just getting curious again around what
is it about that home ownership that is so significant
to me? Is it about security? Is it about what
a particular person is going to think when they find
out that I own the home? Like, what is it
(38:03):
about that? And really starting to again I use the
word curiosity a lot, but just really getting to know
what is sitting behind that thought process, because otherwise, if
you don't address that need, and that can be other
ways to address that need of safety or of success
or perception, but if you don't address that need, you
will impulsively, when that feeling gets too overwhelming, you will
(38:26):
impossibly go and buy the next home and then sell it,
and you'll keep yourself stuck in that cycle, which is
becoming a self fulfilling prophecy of the story of I
don't deserve it, right, so I'm just going to keep
myself in that loop. So we want to bust that
wide open and then you start to run your own race.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Yeah. I live in an area where a whole bunch
of people moved out at the beginning of COVID because
it's semi rural, and then you know, two years later
saw them moved back and they just set ten grand
on fire both ends. We were all sitting around going
but it obviously fulfilled some sort of need, right it was.
It was so imperative they couldn't stop and think. Natasha
(39:06):
Jansen's financed expert Women Women with Sense. It's women dot
with Sense dot com, Natasha Tom dot Au because you're
from Australia and the wonderful title wonder Woman's Guide to Money,
The Busy Woman's Guide to Money Management and Wealth Building.
If you go to the Women with Sense website Women
(39:28):
with Sense dot com dot Au, there is a quiz
you can fill out to find out what your attachment
style with money is. It's super cool. Natasha, thank you
so much for coming on It's Not Therapy. If I
missed anything about the way people can find you and
more what you're about, no.
Speaker 4 (39:47):
You've covered it all, so thank you so much for
having me. I've really had fun and really enjoyed this conversation.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Great and I did like that on your blog the
top five mistakes that people make with money overlap very
nicely with the top ten forra on news programs, including
healthy goals based on things you can control. So Natasha,
thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
No absolute pleasure when me come back.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Some of the things I've found really really help with
overcoming that of voidant icky, money, trauma, questions, comments, concerns.
Leanna at not Therapyshow dot com, not therapyshow dot com
as the website at not Therapy Show. Is the socials
back for our final segment after.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
This no Radio, No Problem stream is live on SAGA
nine sixty am dot C.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
The following program is a peer to peer advice show
and does not diagnose mental health conditions. If you're seeking
social services, please call or text two to one one
or go to two one one dot CA. We're back
in a sid therapy I'm still Leanna Kurzner. I'm still
not a therapist. We've got an ample amount of time
this show. Woo hoo, timing for a change. Talking about
(41:06):
money trauma, money stress, how to work with it, I
hesitate to say overcome it because it is a work
in progress. So, as I said before the break, I'm
going to tell you some of the things that have
helped me. One is set financial boundaries top ten phrase.
Other people don't have to like your boundaries, but they
(41:27):
do have to respect them. The problem is a lot
of people do not respect other people's financial boundaries, and
they always have their reasons, But if someone is invading
your money space, that's a problem. That doesn't mean you
have to do everything on your own. If somebody is
(41:49):
helping instead of forcing, that's awesome. But if you have
you know, only a vague idea of what a financial
boundary even means, that is something to look into and
possibly even, like I said, get some financial advice from
(42:10):
a qualified expert, because that's very, very important, because if
you can't have financial boundaries, then the next part, the
next bit I found really really useful, is kind of
impossible because the next thing is set goals. You know,
I say top ten phrase healthy goals are based on
(42:30):
things you can control. You may think this is just
setting yourself up for disappointment. The idea of setting financial goals.
I have seen the cost of housing. It is still yaike's.
They say, Ah, the cost of condos is going down.
We've got lots of inventory. Yeah, it hasn't gone down
that much. I don't care what anybody has said. And
(42:51):
at least they're posting the condo fees now. But I
saw a condo listed where somebody I knew used to
live and the condo fees the fee, we're one thousand
dollars a month. That's without your mortgage. Yikes. What Yeah, okay.
But setting goals, then assessing whether they're achievable, then adapting
(43:14):
as needed. This is good. This is important. This gives
you a sense of direction and meaning and purpose in
your life. And we know these things are directly tied
to happiness. If you are just marking time, if you
are just going day to day, if you don't have goals,
(43:35):
you don't know if you're going in the right direction
or the wrong ones. So the idea of goal setting
may stress you out, and it may take a few tries.
Why I really ooted? Their apologies to those outside of Canada,
maybe not? Why am I apologizing? We're proud of our
unboun uh. Anyway, Adjusting the goals, setting it, trying it out, resetting,
(43:58):
getting calibrated super super super important to feeling fulfilled and
having a sense of worth. And this is where we
get into a big one that's hard. Watch for signs
of avoidance. You know that thing where you just don't
want to look because you're afraid of what you're gonna see.
(44:21):
I've been there, I'm still there sometimes, you know, seek
support sooner rather than later. People do this stuff for
a living. Don't just let it sit and fester. If
you address it now, it's gonna be a much more
(44:44):
solvable problem then if you wait. Top ten phrase Ignoring
negatives isn't being positive? Right? Having the rose colored glasses
on when it comes to the green not a good idea.
You ever seen a mixic green and pink? It becomes
as kind of like poop color. Anyway, moving on, you
don't need to hear this whole concept is poop for
(45:06):
some people, right right? Okay, So here's one. It's simple,
but man, it really added up for me. Set up
an automatic withdrawal every month into a tax free savings account.
It doesn't have to be a lot. The point is
it's automatic, right, It just comes out. You don't even
(45:27):
have to think about it. It really adds up. You know,
even if you put away ten bucks a month, that's
one hundred and twenty bucks a year. One hundred bucks
a month works really well because you save like twelve
hundred bucks a year. Right when you have that just
sitting there, you're not thinking about it, and suddenly you
have that emergency repair your car breaking down. You need
(45:51):
a new car. You've got that savings to draw from,
and you get some tax benefits if it's your tax
free savings account. Right, but don't any money. You can
spare ten bucks, no, really, you can walk once, take
one less uber, right, you can do ten bucks a
month and start there. Even do five bucks a month
(46:14):
just to start, because you can always increase the amount.
But getting into that passive habit, it's a really good step.
And then this is something I found, and this is
probably gonna be the most unpopular thing I say. But
don't get hung up on finding the best deal. Set
(46:35):
a price in your head that you feel is good
and once you find it, stop agonizing, make the purchase.
Because chasing bargains I have seen people they drive all
over the place, they pay for barking, they do all
this stuff and they end up spending I mean, what's
a tach of gas?
Speaker 4 (46:56):
Right?
Speaker 2 (46:57):
What's a week of your time worth? Chasing bargains can
often mean spending more than you realize, having a lot
of stress, and there are often hidden charges to great deals.
You should get a ballpark of what's reasonable for something
(47:17):
to cost, and often the cheapest thing isn't the best value,
and ultimately that's what you're looking for, right value. Invest
in things that are timeless pieces. They're gonna last a while,
so spend a little bit more on that furniture so
it's a forever piece. Same with clothes. Buy quality stuff
(47:38):
that is timeless, isn't gonna go out of style because
it's been a style for ages, you know, especially shoes.
Spend the money on quality shoes. You will not regret it.
It's worth it. Spending the money so that your feet
don't hurt. If it hurts, it's not good value, but yeah,
(48:01):
it takes time. Should not panic and spend with your
head instead of your freeze, flight faun or flight response.
Speaking of flight, I gotta run. We are out of time, Questions, comments,
concerns Leanna at Nottherapyshow dot com. Not therapyshow dot com
is the website at not Therapy Show on social media.
(48:23):
So I was too loud there. You're crazy is the
only problem. If it's already, go talk next time.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Stream us live at SAGA nine six am dot CA.
The views expressed in the following program are those of
the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of
SAGA nine sixty AM or its management.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
The following program is a peer to peer advice show
and does not diagnose mental health conditions. If you're seeking
social services, please call or text two to one one
or go to two one one dot CA. Hello listeners
around the world on radio, streaming and podcast services. This
is not therapy. I'm Leanna Kerzner, and I am not
(00:30):
a therapist, but I am your source for navigating the
madness of mental health. Use my top ten sayings for
going good crazy. This week, we're talking money drama, trauma
and money, money and trauma, some combination of money and
or trauma, because well, okay, it's impossible to avoid the
news lately. Right every day it's some new headline about
(00:52):
some financial chaos and I'm not even gonna give examples
because it may have changed between like now and the
last time I looked at four coup So I've got
an expert on money management. Natasha Jansen's on for the
interview later, but first, let's unpack our internal financial screaming.
(01:13):
Money stress cuts deep. That's an understatement, because well, we
need money to live, but success is also connected to
our self esteem, our identity. So sudden shocks, losses and investments,
having to take a job that earns less money, changes
in financial circumstances, or even income bracket, these things can
(01:37):
really hit us hard in the proverbial squishy bits. You know. Yeah,
I can hear those of you who don't have investment
portfolios protesting that you're having trouble even paying your bills,
and I hear you. Like I said from the start,
this stuff cuts deep. I can't think of anything more
(01:58):
personal to talk about. Money insecurity might be more difficult
to talk about for some people than sex, but for
you know, some people, money goes beyond stress. It goes
beyond embarrassment into full blown trauma. Financial abuse is a
(02:21):
thing for one. Economic abuse is something that is, you know,
somewhat widespread. You'll hear things about, you know, elder abuse,
but you know it happens in domestic relationships, even among
friends taking advantage of you know, your good nature. A
lot of people like me, who didn't grow up with
(02:45):
much money have had a very bumpy relationship with the stuff.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
It takes a lot of work a lot of effort,
a lot of pain, a lot of mistakes to change
your relationship with money.
Speaker 2 (03:03):
Certain things about money still freaks me out. I went
shopping recently. Okay, it was the bay closing the sale. Right,
It's like, Okay, saved a lot of money, but spent
a lot of money too. I haven't really bought proper clothes, like,
I haven't updated my wardrobe since COVID, like since before COVID,
(03:27):
So it's like six years old, right, and hit without fail.
Whenever I spend money on clothes, Guaranteed, I'm gonna get
hit with an unexpected emergency expense. It I don't go,
oh my god, it's gonna happen. But every single time,
like I don't even believe in this stuff. It's like,
(03:49):
why what did I do? This time? I scratched my glasses,
and my glasses are freaking expensive, so I just lost
my ish lost it right now. Apparently they're under warranty,
and God, because I can't afford it, I envy those
people who can go get like the ninety nine dollar glasses. No,
(04:09):
my prescription is too complicated, and I'm for sure they're
under warranty. I'm hoping, right, I can't afford to replace
these things, but I need to replace them. I see
the stupid scratches all the time, But I mean, this
is simple compared to stuff like real estate investments, retirement planning.
(04:32):
I wasn't raised with awareness of any of this stuff.
It was just get a job with benefits, and the
job with benefits world. I mean, good luck with that
that world shrinking in some sectors, it's gone, and I'm
(04:53):
finding myself now sponsoring events, doing charity fundraisers. I have
moments of who is this person? What? What is my life?
It's so easy to just be cheap and hide in
that mantra current afford it, right, you hear that. It
drives me crazy. People in these three thousand foot like
(05:15):
square foot homes in the suburbs, all those ridings that
flip conservative the last election. They're in these giant homes
and care and afford it. They probably say can't afford it,
because well they really can, They just don't want to.
It feels tough to go. I can't afford that, right.
(05:37):
But the flip side of that, the reason they're living
in these big homes and going can't afford it is
we live in an image obsessed culture, where how you look,
where you live, how big your house is possibly matters
more than what you know or how hard you work.
But you also have to spend money to money. That
(06:01):
is true, but there are a ton of scams out
there these days, and learning as you go the way
I did when it comes to money management is terrifying,
and the tough times they mark you. And I know
I'm doing a lot better than a lot of people
are these days, So I don't want to make this
(06:21):
about me, because everyone's pain on this topic is, like
I said, so deeply personal. There's so much raw out
there these days. It's okay to want better for yourself,
but it's also okay to not be where you want
it to be because the world blew up, then fell apart,
then blew up again, and it's landed especially bad on
(06:43):
Generation Z. If you think you need it, it's absolutely
okay to ask for help with money things. In fact,
a financial advisor is a good person to connect with
sooner as opposed to later. Not sure what a financial
advisor does well, I've brought one on as a guest.
Natasha Jansen's will join us after the break to discuss
(07:04):
how trauma affects your relationship with money. It's gonna be great.
I love it. Do you have a story you think
would be a good idea for the show. Are you
interested in sponsoring the show? Sponsor money? See I ask, oh,
that guts me every time I do it, so weird.
Leanna at not Therapyshow dot com. Not Therapyshow dot com
is my website at not Therapy Show on socials. We'll
(07:27):
be back money trauma, trauma, money after this and it's not.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
Therapy, no radio, no problem. Stream is live on SAGA
ninety six am dot C.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
The following program is a peer to peer advice show
and does not diagnose mental health conditions. If you're seeking
social services, please call or text two to one one
or go to two one one dot CA. We're back
in as the therapy. I'm Stillleanna curs and I'm still
not a therapist. We're still talking trauma and money and
(08:02):
it is the interview this week. As I said off
the top, we have Natasha Jansen excuse me, finance expert,
founder of Women with Sense and the author of the
book I love this title, Wonder Woman's Guide to Money,
The Busy Woman's Guide to money management and wealth building. Natasha,
thanks for coming on. It's not therapy.
Speaker 4 (08:23):
Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited
about this conversation.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
Awesome, I am too, because I mean this is a
big topic, right and obviously everybody has some triggers when
it comes to money. Now, you came at it from
very personal experience. You've been through a lot in your life.
So how did you initially become interested in the idea
of early life trauma or adverse childhood experiences and money habits.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
It was a real evolution for me. Actually, So I
grew up in Eastern Europe, so until the Ende of
eighteen really wore poverty, you know, economic instability, that was
the reality was all I knew. And it was always
my dream to one day move to someplace like Australia,
which I finally one day managed to succeed at when
I was eighteen years old. And so I from there
(09:11):
I kind of really fell into the land of accountancy
and from their financial planning, mortgage breaking. I really wanted
to understand everything that there was to do with money
because I noticed, you know, even growing up in Serbia
that sort of it was sort of seemed to be
like those who understood all these systems and how things
worked that sort of managed to do better. So I
just wanted I set out to sort of understand as
(09:32):
much as I could about it, and then I wanted
to share that knowledge and help others around me. And so,
working as a financial planner, what I began to realize
is that, you know, as much as I tried, I'd
put together plans for people, I wrote a book, I
ran webinars, I did everything I could, many people still
weren't creating any real change in their lives. You know,
they'd have a plan, but they just wouldn't stick to
(09:54):
it or it would go off the rails quite quickly.
And that then got me interested into why was that happening?
So I then opened the Pandora's box of economic psychology
and looking at behavioral finance and what is it that
drives our behaviors? And the more I started to work
in this space as a money therapist and a money coach,
(10:14):
I began to notice that common thread of just how
much our childhood's impact the way we view ourselves, the
way we view the world around us, and the way
we view our relationship with money and the habits that
formed from that, And so yeah, that's sort of how
it came to be. It certainly wasn't something that I
set out to do from the get go, but just
the more I learned about it, the more I realized,
(10:35):
this is sort of the part that we really need
most focus on.
Speaker 2 (10:38):
Yeah, because you've connected it to attachment styles, right, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (10:43):
So looking at it from a few different angles, But
certainly our attachment styles also play a part in that
because really looking at the way that we bond with
others and the way that we deal with the relationships
around us, and the way that we cope with stress,
all of that translates to how we use money, because
we use money to self soothe, right, so all of
(11:03):
that ends up being interconnected.
Speaker 2 (11:05):
Right, And I mean financial avoidance is an obvious one, right,
Like people just that's too big, so I'm not going
to look at it, and they get into trouble, the
debt piles up. Impulse spending, how does that connect to attachment?
Would that like connected to anxious attachment?
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Look, what I've found is that impulse spending takes place
when any emotion gets too much. Okay, so that could
be that anxiety and the overwhelmed, So then we make
an impulsive decision just to make that anxiety go away.
I just want to be done with that, right. It
could be you know, anger, could be sadness, frustration, feeling powerless,
(11:44):
any number of things. But the impulsiveness comes when those
emotions are just too much for us and we just
get reactive. And then how we get reactive that then
depends on what were the other habits that we formed,
how did we learn to cope with certain situations. So
for some people, you know, we might end up if
we're an avoidant, if we want to escape, we might
(12:05):
then book a holiday. It's like I just need to
get myself out of this situation. I just want to
do with it. But if we're there and our focus
is around people pleasing, we might compensate over over doing
things for others and just sort of wanting to gain
that acceptance. So it can play out in any number
of different ways.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
And shame figures heavily in how people spend money, right,
I mean, I know my own upbringing, there was the
sphere of debt in my family, and obviously you can't
grow well without taking on some debt. I mean a
mortgage is debt, but it's the sort of debt that
actually works for you, you know sometimes. This was a big
change of my thinking that sometimes it's better to take
(12:46):
on debt than spend money you have based on interest
rates and a whole, you know, bunch of very complicated factors.
This is why we have financial planners, money managers and
so on. But the psychology of taking on debt is
definitely something I had to learn. So for people who
(13:08):
might not have grown up with much, whose sort of
the idea of debt is very scary, the idea of
having five figure debt is even scarier. I mean, now
it's six figure debt to afford a house. How do
you start with somebody where it isn't just unease, it's trauma.
Speaker 4 (13:26):
Yeah, yeah, Look, it starts off and regardless of what
their challenge is, whether it's around debt or around something else.
The approach that I found to be most effective is
we start, first of all by looking backwards. So I'll
typically get clients to write down like a chronological biography,
looking at it through a little bit of a lens,
through finances. But money overlaps so many things, so we
(13:49):
start to look through what were their life experiences. What
were the emotions that were attached to those particular memories,
and then we start to notice trends and patterns and
beliefs that started to form. So you really, in order
to shift something around shame or around fear of having
debt or whatever it might be, we need to understand
(14:09):
where that fear stems from and what is it really about.
You know, has something happened in the past that made
you think that, Okay, if I go and take on
this step, then there's going to be a series of
negative events that all take place. Did you observe someone
going through it? Were there times in your life where
people just told you that nothing will ever come of you,
(14:30):
You know, you won't be able to succeed and what
you set out? Maybe that fear is then that going,
do I actually have what it takes to succeed in
this plan that I have set out? So we need
to have that context and understanding to what it's about.
When it comes from, then you can start to challenge
those beliefs because you can go, well, based on that situation, well,
was that really you know, that might be one story
(14:52):
that I made to make sense of the situation as
to this is what this means. But are there different
ways to look at it? And one way that can
be really power to shift someone's thinking is I say
to them, change the buyer, because you have your name
sitting there at the top. So put the name of
someone that you really admire, like maybe it's Oprah, maybe
it's a friend, maybe whoever. Put a name of someone
you admire and read that again, and you'll notice just
(15:15):
how much differently you view all those experiences that this
person had overcome. Suddenly they weren't being fools or irresponsible
or whatever it is. Suddenly they're, oh my gosh, they're resourceful.
They've had all these challenges come their way, and look
they've managed to go and succeed and they've tried again
and picked themselves up and all of that. So, starting
to look at it from a few different ways, we
start to smash that thinking. Once we start to introduce
(15:38):
a little bit of a seed of doubt to belief system,
it becomes easier to let it go.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
Now. The other thing with women, uniquely is that idea
of risk and threat. We're trained by society to just
stay safe, and that has a negative impact when it
comes to as somebody who started multiple businesses, some of
them work, some of them didn't. That idea of taking
a risk and possibly be wrong, that's sort of existential
(16:05):
for women, right, because the way we're trained by society,
how do you teach calculated risk or healthy risk as
opposed to just what some people do and just throw
the doors off and start being reckless and finding out
the hard way. That's not good either.
Speaker 4 (16:24):
Yeah. So, and look, that's a really interesting point because
we actually have a really strong fear response around money,
both men and women, because money at its core is
attached to our survival. You know how you get food
and shelter, right, so we'll automatically get have a really
strong fear response to anything that takes us out of
our comfort zones. Then you start to overlay those natural
(16:46):
instincts with what you just mentioned, which is societal conditioning
as well as to what are you capable of. You
know best that you play it safe and sort of
do x, y and Z in. So the way that
I would address that is by first all you want
to start taking small steps of practicing imperfection and practicing risk,
and that can be in areas that aren't related to money.
(17:09):
Had I've said to clients, you know, I'll often give
people tasks as far as doing a little bit of creativity.
I find that as we become older, we sort of
lose that creative part of ourselves. And a common objection is, well,
I'm not a good artist and I don't know how
to draw well, so we go, let's practice imperfection. Doesn't matter.
Practice drawing something badly, right, Go draw, take a coloring
(17:31):
and book and draw outside of the lines, right, and
do it messy, just getting used to that whole thing around.
It doesn't have to be perfect. That's a big thing
for women as well. We're sort of condition that it
all has to be perfect. And then we translate that
to investments, Right, it has to be the perfect investment, right,
But there's no such thing as a perfect investment, right,
So we need to get comfortable at being imperfect. Then
(17:54):
we look at, Okay, if there's an investment that I'm
wanting to take, let's look at how much risk I
afford to take, Like from a financial perspective, how much
can I afford to risk? But also from an emotional perspective,
what is it that I need in order to feel safe?
Do I need to have a mound saved up. Do
I need to say, well, I'm only going to put
this portion with this investment. Do I need to research
(18:18):
it a little bit more? Right? And then we sort
of go and start to take those little baby steps.
But yeah, coming at it from a few different angles
ends up being the key to really shifting that.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Yeah, there's a reality of it was just expensive to
be a woman too. With influencer, second, Instagram, TikTok, all
that stuff, it's really easy to throw a lot of
money at, you know, one click purchases and not plan
because I mean there is so much pressure when somebody's
got a twenty thousand dollars face and you're comparing yourself
(18:48):
to that online money can sort of disappear shockingly quickly,
And does that tie into your idea of practicing and
perfection that hey, that is a priority for that person,
It's not a priority for me, And I'm allowed to
have my priorities absolutely.
Speaker 4 (19:07):
So getting comfortable with running your own race, which is
really challenging now when we have social media in our face.
I mean, we're naturally why to want to fit in
and do what everyone else is doing. But it's just
been oh, it's just exploded right with social media everywhere,
and it's all that perfection, it's all perfectly curated. So yeah,
giving yourself permission to run your own race. Getting curious
(19:29):
around what it is that's making me feel like I'm
not enough unless I have hair that looks like this,
or unless I have the perfect nails, or whatever it
might be. Because again, when we look at it as far
as from a gender lens, you know, men have been
trained that it's their job to provide and to protect,
so they're being conditioned to be comfortable with risk taking.
(19:52):
And for women and for girls. I look at my
daughter who's eight years old and already and even though
she doesn't have her own phone and access to social media,
this it still getting to her as far as constant
feeding of you need these perfect nails, and that all
comes at a cost. Right, So we then look at
how much time do we as women spend on making
ourselves look perfect. That could be time I could be
spending researching, investments, starting a business. Instead I'm spending an
(20:15):
hour before I've even gotten out the door on my appearance.
Then we add to that how much money are we
putting towards achieving that look, whereas I could take a
fraction of that money and put it towards something else.
So I used to say to women, and this would
sort of trigger investors, because when you're a pure investor,
(20:36):
you know you want to reduce the cost of the investment,
you want to reduce your brokerage fees and all those
sorts of things. But I'm looking at it from a
perspective of I just want you to shift your habits.
So I used to say to women, I'm like, go,
if you have that fifty dollars that you were going
to spend on a handbag or a nails or whatever,
go and just buy a share, Buy whatever you can
without fifty dollars. Just go. And so the investors would
(20:58):
lose their minds because now spent an extra ten or
twenty dollars in brokerage on top of it. But I'm going,
but you would have spent that money anyway on a
handbag that you weren't going to use. You go and
buy those shares. You're learning something. You're now watching that
money grow, or you're getting the experience of the volatility.
That's still an investment in yourself in a different way. Right,
(21:19):
So yeah, really starting to question everything that we have
been taught because we're at a disadvantage at the moment
in that technology is so powerful at exploiting our natural
instincts and vulnerabilities. We have to be taught and practice
and train how to disconnect from that and to go, Okay,
this machine knows how to get to me. It knows
(21:41):
now when I'm having a bad day. It knows, oh hey,
maybe this all thing will perk you up to actually
go back and go, actually, what is my bad day about?
Let's connect back with me and what do I really
feel right now. Work with so many clients who, for example,
loneliness and disconnect is it? You know, it's growing And
they say, well, if that's what I'm feeling right now,
and I take the time to observe that, then once
(22:04):
I've acknowledge it, I'll go and pick up the phone, right,
I'll go for a walk, Wren. I'll actually meet that
need in a way that will actually heal me long
term as opposed to that impulse purchase that will have
a fleeting sort of experience of joy, and then we'll
be back to the state where I was so again,
starting to disconnect from technology from social media and tune
(22:26):
back into ourselves, into our bodies and noticing what is
it that I'm feeling, what is it that I truly
need right now? And that'll then start to pay that
way towards running your own race as well.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
On the subject of your own needs versus other people's needs,
I want to talk about money relationships for first. I
want to go to break everybody Natasha Jensen's finance expert,
founder of Women with Sense, author of Wonder Woman's Guide
to Money. Love that title. We are talking about early
life financial habits, relationships, all that good stuff. More on
(22:56):
that when we come back and it's not therapy. Questions
comments concernedly at notherapyshow dot com, not therapyshow dot com
website with contact form at not therapy show on social media.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Back in a bitstream US live at SAGA nine six
am dot CA.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
The following program is a peer to peer advice show
and does not diagnose mental health conditions. If you're seeking
social services, please call or text two to one one
or go to two one one dot CA. We're back
in this not therapy. I'm Stillleana Curzoner. I'm still not
a therapist. We're talking trauma, money, life, everything with Natasha
(23:42):
Jansen's finance expert, finance coach, founder of Women with Sense
ce NTS, and the author of Wonder Woman's Guide to
Money Now. Natasha, it tas before the break that we're
going to talk about relationships and money because nothing tests
any relationship hip like money. Been married for twenty five years,
(24:04):
so I've been through quite a bit. My husband and
I have very very different money habits and it clashes sometimes.
But I've also seen a lot of families torn apart
by things like inheritance. People get ugly when it comes
to money. Big question, But where do we start going?
(24:25):
What the heck is going on here?
Speaker 4 (24:28):
Yeah? Well, look, if you're in a relationship, I think
taking the time to get to know first of all
yourselves and your own relationship with money, and reflecting on
that past and then having a chat with each other
and even with your kids. You know, what was life
like growing up and starting to look at and what
were the what is the meaning that you took away
from all of this? So it's one thing to look at,
(24:49):
Oh these are the things. Oh my father used to
always say, money doesn't grow on trees or is but
what is the meaning that you took away from it?
Because it's more that that will effect than what you
went to did as a result of it. So starting
to understand each other and coming at it from a
place of compassion, because the reason why money is such
a trigger and relationship is because money is tied so
(25:10):
closely to our sense of self worth and our sense
of safety. And so what happens then is there will
inevitably something that our partner does that will affect one
or both of those things, and that then creates a reaction.
So when we think about inheritance being such a big
(25:31):
thing and relationships getting into fight, that at the heart
of it is how much was I worth to them?
Like is this the meaning? Like oh my gosh, and
I did all these things and this is all that
I got while this other person got that it's affected
my sense of worth, right, So it's really starting at
that and going and noticing, Okay, so when my spouse
(25:51):
does this and it affects me in this way, what
is that really about? And then communicating that need in
a time and place were not being reactive because we
often don't talk about it, and then those emotions get
overwhelming and then we get impulsive, right, and we might
impulsively spend or do something, or we might impulsively say
something in the heat of the moment, whereas we want
(26:12):
to go, well, okay, that really upset me, gosh, what
was that about. I'm going to go for a walk.
I'm going to sit with this for a bit and
then talk to that person. So, as an example, I've
worked with a couple where and look, this will often happen.
You might have had sane or similar childhood experiences. You
might have both come from poverty, but you would have
taken away two different sets of meanings and responses to
(26:34):
that situation. And then the tuger war happens when one
person's response is triggering the other person because you go,
oh my gosh. So, for example, I've worked with a
couple where for the lady in particular, money was the
way that love was shown growing up, So it was
never set through words. There was never physical affection, but
(26:57):
money and gifts were how she felt loved relationship. She
really views, Okay, well I need my spouse to buy
me gifts and surprises on a regular basis, and that
is how then I'm going to feel loved. Now if
her spouse is not aware of that, he then each
time he tries to set a budget, his pressure is
I have to provide for us. I'm trying to show
(27:17):
love through providing and through protecting. But he's triggering her
because he's withholding a gift. So in her mind, her
interpretation is he loves money more than me. These things
are more important than what I am. Not at all
the case. He's trying really hard to show love in
the way that he was taught as far as offering
that protection and safety and security. So unless the two
(27:39):
of them have that conversation, they'll continue to live in
their little silos of each interpreting each other's behaviors, misinterpreting
them and then responding in that way, and that then
creates that greater divide. So we have to start with compassion.
We have to go, okay, that's the story that I talk.
This person behaved because of this. Let me actually step
(28:01):
away from it and get curious and go, how come
this is so important to you? What is it about
that to you? And then you'll start for on the
same page. So yeah, So in the case of the
lady where gifts were really important, to her. We sort
of discussed and said, okay, well, that can also be
unsustainable because also part of that element was the element
of surprise. If you're now expecting that every day, then
(28:21):
that's also going to lose as effect. What are other
ways that the two of you can reconnect emotional and
what are other ways that you can show lum And
that becomes really important too, because going on a financial
journey together, setting goals, doing anything together, it's going to
involve compromise. You're not going to get there while you
don't feel like you're on the same team. That's right,
(28:43):
You have to start from the beginning, reconnect, bond again,
start to feel like you actually care about each other.
Then we recommence these conversations around what does this mean
for you? Why is this goal so important to you?
What worries you about this? How can we then do this.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Together and tell me if I'm right or wrong here?
I find that some people have the best of intentions
regarding that protecting the other person from money stress, so
they just won't tell the other spouse about something. One
of the first pieces of merital advice from an older
woman I ever got was hide money, and it was
(29:19):
like well that's okay, I guess that's generational. It was
strange to me. It's like, why would I do that?
But the instinct does come up when things get tough
and you're feeling criticized for a purchase, if you happen
to be not the higher income earner, or there's a
(29:40):
power struggle, or you are the higher income earner and
you don't want to worry the other partner. These are
well meaning things, or they're self defensive things, but they
can still cause real problems.
Speaker 4 (29:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because I mean again, your behavior is
you'll show that stress in other ways as well, and
you start to spill over. But at the end of
the day, it's then about trust, right, So it's then
going the other person's going to eventually react and go, well,
you didn't trust me to be there for you, you didn't
trust me not to judge you, you didn't trust me
(30:14):
to I didn't have a chance to respond and be supportive. Right,
So that then can become a really hard sort of
event to recover from, right, to start to regain each
other's trust and do that. But also a lot of
people will do it because there's such a sense of
shame of I have let people down or they're going
to think that to me. You don't want them to
(30:35):
think less of me for having done this. But again,
it has to start with that self compassion, with understanding
that these events took place for a reason, and that
you were doing the best that you could with the
tools that you had and the knowledge that you had.
And now let's go. Now. You touched on as well
as far as women sort of being advised to hide money.
(30:56):
So it is that catch twenty two of looking at
how do we, particular as women, if we are financially
dependent on our spouses, how do we protect ourselves against
domestic violence and financial abuse and all those sorts of things.
So I agree that we need to maintain access to
our own money and maintain access to our capacity to
(31:17):
earn money.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
But that's not the same as hiding it. Yeah, that's
the thing.
Speaker 4 (31:21):
Keeping it sept that versus hiding its existence altogether are
two different things. So if you notice that there's something
in your relationship where your gut instinct is saying that
I need to keep this a secret, that's a flag
for you that there's something else going on in the
relationship too, right, that there's bigger things there at play,
apart from just where that money is sitting, that need
(31:44):
to be addressed one way or another.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
Yeah, And I mean that's true not just in marriage's
rate of romantic relationships, it's true in families as well. Right.
If you've hit a point in your family where someone's
saying you're out of the will and that becomes as
leverage point, that's the sign of much deeper problems, and
that can be absolutely crushing for people to find out
their family wasn't what it was at the time. I mean,
(32:08):
if you're talking about a well, it means that somebody
probably doesn't have a lot of years left. So in
instances like that, where it is a crisis, something's gone wrong,
you're in it. Now, what what do you recommend for
people when they find themselves in spots like that?
Speaker 4 (32:30):
Yeah, well, I guess we're looking at it from the
point of view, what is then the outcome that we're seeking? Really, so,
I think especially as far as well as it's such
a topic that everyone feels so uncomfortable about and is
so emotionally changed that families often don't discuss it upfront,
and then it's left to be dealt with later then
(32:52):
it starts to create a rift because everyone's making assumptions
as to why it played out in the way that
it did. So my advice to family is, wherever possible
is have these conversations up from let them know and
go look for these reasons. You know, we're wanting to
do X, Y, and Z, and this will go to
this person, this will go to that person, and if
need be, maybe we need to have a family therapy session,
(33:13):
maybe we need to have someone in the room to
support and facilitate those conversations. But as much as that
can seem like a cost now, it's far more cost
effective to do that now and resolve it than to
be tied up in the courts later trying to argue
over well, this decision needs to be reversed and this
outcome wasn't right. So again, all of it comes back
(33:33):
to that having that open conversation. But that requires vulnerability,
and we've just seen money is so closely tied to
our sense of self worth, so it becomes really tricky
for people to be able to do that successfully. But
I think you know, as a stepping stone, it can
be worth while getting a family therapist in the room
and having that conversation there.
Speaker 2 (33:54):
It also comes from experience too. If you don't have
experience with those large sums of money, the first time
you go through it, you make a lot of mistakes.
I mean the first time you get that bill from
the probate lawyer because she called them twenty times and
they build you for every single call. You're not gonna
do that again. You're gonna sit and wait and just
let the process work.
Speaker 4 (34:14):
Right.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
But these are intergenerational things where if you grow up
in a family with an understanding of that kind of money,
you have some guidance. As opposed to people who grew up,
say in poverty or even lower middle class, there was
just nothing but debt to inherit that you don't know
what you don't know. So for people going, I don't
(34:37):
even know where to begin. I didn't come from anything.
I've done well for myself, but I think I can
do better what you know? How does someone identify negative
patterns you know that they don't know about and build
sort of the confidence that they are making the right choice.
Speaker 4 (34:57):
Mmm. So I I think all that stems from starting
to create goals with intention, not just around. Look, I
want to buy a property, or I want to pay
off debt, but looking beyond that to go what type
of a lifestyle am I trying to create? The more
specific we can be around what it is we're trying
(35:17):
to do and why, then the plan kind of falls
out from that, right, and then the confidence comes because
at the moment we live at the age of information,
there's too much information, there's too many voices. Wherever you go,
everyone will have an opinion. And then we go into
online forums and social media groups and now there's a
million people you don't know saying you should do this
(35:38):
and you should do that. That really starts to then
erode your confidence because you don't know what was the
right move. So the answer is there is no cookie
cutter approach, there is no best move. It's around what
is it that you want that is going to bring
your joy? So coming back to that whole running your
own race, getting as specific as you can about what
(35:59):
you're wanting to do, achieve the time frame you want
to achieve it in. Then you start to break down
how much money do I need to do that? And
then notice if you're getting into a problem solving mindset
or if you're getting into a sort of putting yourself
into a victim state mindset where I'm just saying it's
not gonna work because of this reason or this reason
(36:19):
or this reason that already there without you doing a
lot of self discovery, you will flag for you what's
my biggest challenge is I'm focused on what could go wrong,
not what is within my control to change and what
could go right. So if that's the case, then that
is where I start with building my confidence and focusing
on that and saying, okay, well right now, sure, these
are all problems and obstacles. Let me pick one of
(36:41):
them and say what support is available to me to
overcome it, what is within my control that I can
do to go and overcome it, and then start to
work that way.
Speaker 2 (36:51):
Last question tied into that if somebody's got a disconnect
between sort of those aspirations. I always wanted to own
a home, for instance, right, and a lifestyle that it
doesn't make sense to own a home if you're going
to be moving every year, You're just going to be
losing money on every closing cost. Right, So how does
somebody get out of this idea of successful people own
(37:15):
a home when your success has taken you in another way.
Speaker 4 (37:20):
Yeah, and look, and that is I feel like it's
a common myth that's emerged, and we have a saying
here rent money is dead money, and all that were.
In actual fact, most of the financially successful people I
know actually rent because as you just said, there's that
cost to buying and selling you time, especially if it's
happening frequently. That is money that you could be putting
(37:41):
towards starting a business, investing, doing other goals. It'll get
you to where you want to go. So if the
disconnect is there is just getting curious again around what
is it about that home ownership that is so significant
to me? Is it about security? Is it about what
a particular person is going to think when they find
out that I own the home? Like, what is it
(38:03):
about that? And really starting to again I use the
word curiosity a lot, but just really getting to know
what is sitting behind that thought process, because otherwise, if
you don't address that need, and that can be other
ways to address that need of safety or of success
or perception, but if you don't address that need, you
will impulsively, when that feeling gets too overwhelming, you will
(38:26):
impossibly go and buy the next home and then sell it,
and you'll keep yourself stuck in that cycle, which is
becoming a self fulfilling prophecy of the story of I
don't deserve it, right, so I'm just going to keep
myself in that loop. So we want to bust that
wide open and then you start to run your own race.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Yeah. I live in an area where a whole bunch
of people moved out at the beginning of COVID because
it's semi rural, and then you know, two years later
saw them moved back and they just set ten grand
on fire both ends. We were all sitting around going
but it obviously fulfilled some sort of need, right it was.
It was so imperative they couldn't stop and think. Natasha
(39:06):
Jansen's financed expert Women Women with Sense. It's women dot
with Sense dot com, Natasha Tom dot Au because you're
from Australia and the wonderful title wonder Woman's Guide to Money,
The Busy Woman's Guide to Money Management and Wealth Building.
If you go to the Women with Sense website Women
(39:28):
with Sense dot com dot Au, there is a quiz
you can fill out to find out what your attachment
style with money is. It's super cool. Natasha, thank you
so much for coming on It's Not Therapy. If I
missed anything about the way people can find you and
more what you're about, no.
Speaker 4 (39:47):
You've covered it all, so thank you so much for
having me. I've really had fun and really enjoyed this conversation.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Great and I did like that on your blog the
top five mistakes that people make with money overlap very
nicely with the top ten forra on news programs, including
healthy goals based on things you can control. So Natasha,
thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
No absolute pleasure when me come back.
Speaker 2 (40:10):
Some of the things I've found really really help with
overcoming that of voidant icky, money, trauma, questions, comments, concerns.
Leanna at not Therapyshow dot com, not therapyshow dot com
as the website at not Therapy Show. Is the socials
back for our final segment after.
Speaker 1 (40:29):
This no Radio, No Problem stream is live on SAGA
nine sixty am dot C.
Speaker 2 (40:42):
The following program is a peer to peer advice show
and does not diagnose mental health conditions. If you're seeking
social services, please call or text two to one one
or go to two one one dot CA. We're back
in a sid therapy I'm still Leanna Kurzner. I'm still
not a therapist. We've got an ample amount of time
this show. Woo hoo, timing for a change. Talking about
(41:06):
money trauma, money stress, how to work with it, I
hesitate to say overcome it because it is a work
in progress. So, as I said before the break, I'm
going to tell you some of the things that have
helped me. One is set financial boundaries top ten phrase.
Other people don't have to like your boundaries, but they
(41:27):
do have to respect them. The problem is a lot
of people do not respect other people's financial boundaries, and
they always have their reasons, But if someone is invading
your money space, that's a problem. That doesn't mean you
have to do everything on your own. If somebody is
(41:49):
helping instead of forcing, that's awesome. But if you have
you know, only a vague idea of what a financial
boundary even means, that is something to look into and
possibly even, like I said, get some financial advice from
(42:10):
a qualified expert, because that's very, very important, because if
you can't have financial boundaries, then the next part, the
next bit I found really really useful, is kind of
impossible because the next thing is set goals. You know,
I say top ten phrase healthy goals are based on
(42:30):
things you can control. You may think this is just
setting yourself up for disappointment. The idea of setting financial goals.
I have seen the cost of housing. It is still yaike's.
They say, Ah, the cost of condos is going down.
We've got lots of inventory. Yeah, it hasn't gone down
that much. I don't care what anybody has said. And
(42:51):
at least they're posting the condo fees now. But I
saw a condo listed where somebody I knew used to
live and the condo fees the fee, we're one thousand
dollars a month. That's without your mortgage. Yikes. What Yeah, okay.
But setting goals, then assessing whether they're achievable, then adapting
(43:14):
as needed. This is good. This is important. This gives
you a sense of direction and meaning and purpose in
your life. And we know these things are directly tied
to happiness. If you are just marking time, if you
are just going day to day, if you don't have goals,
(43:35):
you don't know if you're going in the right direction
or the wrong ones. So the idea of goal setting
may stress you out, and it may take a few tries.
Why I really ooted? Their apologies to those outside of Canada,
maybe not? Why am I apologizing? We're proud of our
unboun uh. Anyway, Adjusting the goals, setting it, trying it out, resetting,
(43:58):
getting calibrated super super super important to feeling fulfilled and
having a sense of worth. And this is where we
get into a big one that's hard. Watch for signs
of avoidance. You know that thing where you just don't
want to look because you're afraid of what you're gonna see.
(44:21):
I've been there, I'm still there sometimes, you know, seek
support sooner rather than later. People do this stuff for
a living. Don't just let it sit and fester. If
you address it now, it's gonna be a much more
(44:44):
solvable problem then if you wait. Top ten phrase Ignoring
negatives isn't being positive? Right? Having the rose colored glasses
on when it comes to the green not a good idea.
You ever seen a mixic green and pink? It becomes
as kind of like poop color. Anyway, moving on, you
don't need to hear this whole concept is poop for
(45:06):
some people, right right? Okay, So here's one. It's simple,
but man, it really added up for me. Set up
an automatic withdrawal every month into a tax free savings account.
It doesn't have to be a lot. The point is
it's automatic, right, It just comes out. You don't even
(45:27):
have to think about it. It really adds up. You know,
even if you put away ten bucks a month, that's
one hundred and twenty bucks a year. One hundred bucks
a month works really well because you save like twelve
hundred bucks a year. Right when you have that just
sitting there, you're not thinking about it, and suddenly you
have that emergency repair your car breaking down. You need
(45:51):
a new car. You've got that savings to draw from,
and you get some tax benefits if it's your tax
free savings account. Right, but don't any money. You can
spare ten bucks, no, really, you can walk once, take
one less uber, right, you can do ten bucks a
month and start there. Even do five bucks a month
(46:14):
just to start, because you can always increase the amount.
But getting into that passive habit, it's a really good step.
And then this is something I found, and this is
probably gonna be the most unpopular thing I say. But
don't get hung up on finding the best deal. Set
(46:35):
a price in your head that you feel is good
and once you find it, stop agonizing, make the purchase.
Because chasing bargains I have seen people they drive all
over the place, they pay for barking, they do all
this stuff and they end up spending I mean, what's
a tach of gas?
Speaker 4 (46:56):
Right?
Speaker 2 (46:57):
What's a week of your time worth? Chasing bargains can
often mean spending more than you realize, having a lot
of stress, and there are often hidden charges to great deals.
You should get a ballpark of what's reasonable for something
(47:17):
to cost, and often the cheapest thing isn't the best value,
and ultimately that's what you're looking for, right value. Invest
in things that are timeless pieces. They're gonna last a while,
so spend a little bit more on that furniture so
it's a forever piece. Same with clothes. Buy quality stuff
(47:38):
that is timeless, isn't gonna go out of style because
it's been a style for ages, you know, especially shoes.
Spend the money on quality shoes. You will not regret it.
It's worth it. Spending the money so that your feet
don't hurt. If it hurts, it's not good value, but yeah,
(48:01):
it takes time. Should not panic and spend with your
head instead of your freeze, flight faun or flight response.
Speaking of flight, I gotta run. We are out of time, Questions, comments,
concerns Leanna at Nottherapyshow dot com. Not therapyshow dot com
is the website at not Therapy Show on social media.
(48:23):
So I was too loud there. You're crazy is the
only problem. If it's already, go talk next time.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
Stream us live at SAGA nine six am dot CA.
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