May 22, 2025 • 48 mins
Liana has been a television and radio host, a model, does public speaking, weekday YouTube videos and It's Not Therapy, so you may find it hard to believe that she's very much an introvert. At least, if you don't really understand introverts, and most extroverts don't! Liana breaks down the barriers to understanding with 10 Things Extroverts Do That Really Bug Introverts!
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The views expressed in the following program are those of
the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of
SAGA nine to sixty AM or its management.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
The following program is a peer to peer advice show
and does not diagnose mental health conditions. If you're seeking
social services, please call or text two to one one
or go to two one one dot CA. Hello, listeners
around the world on radio, streaming and podcast services. This
is It's not therapy. I'm Leanna Kerzner, and I am
(00:29):
not a therapist, but I am your source for navigating
the madness of mental health using my top ten sayings
for going good crazy. This week, I'm doing another list
because the weather's gotten nicer, the pressures to socialize have
gotten greater, and so I wanted to deliver a message
on behalf of my fellow introverts. Dear extroverts, stop trying
to force us to be like you. It's not that
(00:54):
all introverts like me. Yes, I am an introvert. It's
not that we hate people. We quite like people. We
just have smaller social batteries, do better in one on
one groups, and need alone time to recharge. We are
not fueled by being around the masses the way extroverts were.
(01:15):
I was at a mall over the weekend, a busy mall.
Shout out to Fairview Mall. The food court there is killer.
I love that as much as I love the channel
Mozella outa Maaya. Shout out to Amaya. There were a
few moments where the sheer number of people overwhelmed me.
Now I'm not alone. Introverts are somewhere between twenty five
(01:38):
percent and forty percent of the population, or it's a
big margin, I know. And yes it's a minority, no
matter which number you take, but it's a large minority.
You know, one in four to two out of three.
It's one out of three people more than that are
our introverts. So I'll try to keep the incoming rant
(01:59):
is brief as possible, but this is an important baseline
for what we're going to talk about. For years, there
was a reinforcing bias in the field of psychology regarding
personality traits and whether they could predict success. Psychologists found
that extroverts tended to do better in life, and therefore
the theory form that extroversion was a success skill, as
(02:22):
opposed to the idea that the world was just built
for extroverts. Well, introversion was a problem that needed to
be trained out of people for their own good instead
of you know, changing the system so it benefited more people.
Here's the problem with the idea of extroversion, good introversion.
Bad introverts like me can fake extraversion when we need to.
(02:46):
I'm doing it right now, but that isn't the same
thing as actually being an extrovert. Well, personality can't shift
over a person's life. There's really no way to brute
force changes in a person's personality without them seeing the
benefits of the change, at which point it becomes not
brute forcing. It hasn't been that long since psychologists realize
(03:10):
that introversion is actually beneficial for tasks, important tasks like
computer programming or research. So in a lot of places,
introversion is not just treated as abnormal, but it's treated
as something that's actively bad or harmful. Introversion is often
confused with being antisocial, and like I said off the top,
(03:34):
it's not. We like people just in smaller doses, and
we need breaks now. Because introversion is treated like the
worse of the two main personality options. The structures of
society favor extroverts, like I said before, which makes it
even harder for introverts to socialize. So I thought i'd
(03:58):
do a show about ten things introvers would like extroverts
to know about the things that drive us crazy. And
I want to be clear before we start. This isn't
all extroverts. There are some lovely extroverted people that I know.
These are just things that you know, you might not
be aware of. This is the effect it has, and
I'm gonna be blood at times because that's, you know,
(04:20):
more of a Catharsis for us introverts. So let's get
started with number ten. Extroverts tend to violate our boundaries,
and it is not for our own good. I ask
the members of my highly introverted discord server what their
biggest social pet peeves were, and the bulk of them
(04:40):
were about boundary violations, unwanted hugs, cheek kisses insisting that
people smile, more comments about socialization, and air quoteses advice
to an extrovert. The thinking is all of this behavior
is I'm being friendly, and that's the problem. You're trying
(05:03):
to be nice to an introvert by treating them like
an extrovert. And that isn't accepting us for who we
are now. Some introverts like hugs. I happen to be
a hugger, but I hate being forced into physical contact
with people the minute of physical gesture is expected, or
worse demanded, it starts becoming extremely uncomfortable for me. When
(05:28):
social norms insist that you touch other people to be polite,
it further drains the social batteries of introverts who don't
like the hugging, kissing, backslapping, playful insults, and well meaning
unsolicited advice. More on that later. If you want your
introverted friends to spend extrovert amounts of time socializing, doing
(05:50):
things that make that easier instead of harder is the
most logical course. Being friendly means being a friend, and
friends care about the com of other friends. It doesn't
take much to ask would you like some advice? It's
okay to say no before proceeding with said advice. And
if you're really such an adepth social butterfly, you're capable
(06:12):
of assessing signs of discomfort in the people around you.
If your more introverted friend goes even quieter when you
keep calling them that nickname, you've had forum based on
an embarrassing event in the fifth grade. Maybe it's time
to knock that off, oh, master of social environment extrovert.
Moving on to number nine, are we warmed up? Woo?
I'm warmed up? Yeah, introverts along, Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah,
(06:36):
extroverts are going what anyway? Number nine on the list
of stuff extroverts want introverts want extroverts to know is
driving us crazy? Is connected to the number ten boundary
vesting reality. It's number nine is often a reaction to
a boundary violation, but sometimes it's not. It's about the
reality that introverts tend to use fewer words. Number nine.
(07:00):
Extroverts accuse us of being rude, too blunt, annoying, or
confusing when we do speak. There's nothing worse for an
introvert than an extrovert with a judgmental streak. It's extremely
encouraging to hear you never talk, only to hear, oh
my god, rude when you finally do open your mouth.
(07:21):
Trust me, us introverts have heard how terrible our social
skills are our entire lives, even when they're not. Yeah,
some people listening to the shows like, what do you
mean your social skills are terrible, or some of you
your social skills are terrible. Word, I can't stay on
the radio. But yeah, you know, I'm a professional communicator,
(07:41):
and I still use to get told all the time
that my social skills sucked. So instant criticism of the
way we speak when we do speak is a great
way to make us not want to speak again. Because
introverts don't talk to fill space, and I understand that
(08:03):
there's a socials function to small talk. I'm not criticizing that,
just we don't do it as much. We actually think
and choose our words before speaking, unlike a lot of
extroverts who figure things out externally. You know that whole
I want to bounce some ideas off people. Here's the thing, extroverts,
(08:28):
if you're one of those people who's talking a lot,
if you're just speaking your mind bouncing ideas around, people
are more used to only listening to. Oh, I'll go
out and say about thirty percent of what you say. Sorry, extroverts,
It's true. There's a lot of filler in what you say,
and so people, at the best of times only half listen.
(08:50):
See I went up from thirty percent to a half
I'm being agreeable. The upside of that is that people
who aren't really listening don't get as easily offended. Because
introverts say less. Every word we use packs a greater punch,
so we like more benefit of the doubt and less
(09:11):
negative judgments of our intent from extroverts, because an introvert
communicates in five words what would take an extrovert twenty See. Also, yes,
we may need to backfill some, but we're not confusing,
we're not annoying. Right, Yeah, there's some give and take here. Okay.
(09:33):
I've put a lot of work into explaining why I'm
saying something before I say it to minimize misunderstandings. But
I've found the extravert communication style bias so strong that
I'll be very clear about my intentions for saying something.
I will say this is why I am saying this,
only for an extrovert to insist I get a totally
(09:55):
different motivation because every other person they've ever known met
something different when they said what I said, and it's
usually something passive, aggressive instead of just the clear surface
meaning of the words. And I chose those words because
of their clear literal meaning, because that's what I was
actually trying to say no ulterior motive. So not only
(10:18):
are introverts slower to talk, but we tend to get
stepped on and talked over when we do. So, when
extroverts finally start noticing we've said something, we're already frustrated
because we just got stepped on five times we were
trying to make our point, and then we get criticized
for that frustration. Yeah, okay, yes there's ways of expressing frustration,
(10:40):
but then we have to hear about how the extrovert
is frustrated too because they didn't like how we said
what we said, and hearing that takes ten minutes. But
we're not supposed to feel criticized because the extroverse is
just telling us how they feel. Meanwhile, the entire thing
that we, the introvert, were trying to say that was
important enough for us to finally open our mouths about, well,
(11:03):
that got totally lost in the sheer volume of words
that the extrovert used to explain why they were frustrated
because we were frustrated. Now, interrupting and telling us how
you feel while not listening to how we're feeling are
different issues, and those are things that also drive introverts
(11:23):
nuts about some extroverts and we'll get to that after
the break. Do you have a story you think would
be good for the show. Are you interested in sponsoring
the show? Leanna atnthapyshow dot com not therapyshow dot com
is the website at no Therapy Show on xcess, Twitter,
Instagram and threads. And if you want to kick some
money to my coffee, it's read Leanna. Kay. I have
(11:44):
to start, I have to start referencing that anyway. Anyway,
we'll be back after the break. Ten things that introverts
want extroverts you know, drives us crazy when we come
back on.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
It's not therapy, no Radio, No Problem. Stream is live
on SAGA nine six am dot C.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
The following program is a peer to peer advice show
and does not diagnose mental health conditions. If you're seeking
social services, please call or text two to one one
or go to two one one dot CA. We're back
in as therapy. I'm still in a curse now, I'm
still not a therapist. We are still talking about ten
things introverts would like extroverts to know about. Well, I'll
(12:32):
be more polite before than I was before the break.
Taking your normal status for granted, and being well kind
of pushy, right, and it wears us out. Before the break,
I talked about number ten. Extroverts ten to violate introverts boundaries. No,
it's not for our own good, thank you. Nine Extroverts
(12:56):
accuse us of being rude, tu blunt, annoying, or confusing
when we do speak, just because we don't talk to
buy the way they do. And in that conversation about
number nine, I stumbled into two more points the over
expressing that some extroverts do, especially about well what they
call feelings. More on that, But then there's interrupting. And
(13:20):
let's be ironic and start with interrupting. So number eight
is extroverts tend to interrupt, No, you do. The studies
show it. It's not that introverts never interrupt, it's that
extroverts do it habitually, and it's not an intent to interrupt.
(13:42):
I study communication because so much of it is weird.
And I notice when you have a bunch of extroverts talking,
they talk over each other as a habit and it
seems to work out right well. Introverts tend to air
on the side of avoiding interrupting, which means leaving longer
(14:05):
gaps in communication that extroverts then take is an invitation
to talk. Now. I am acutely aware of this because
you know, I did conventional, you know, off the cuff,
nonscripted television and talk radio for years, and then I
switched to doing a lot of stuff online. And this
(14:28):
online stuff included doing streams, and I got accused of
interrupting and derailing. And if you hear what sounds like
a cat yelling in the background, yes, she is being
very extroverted right now. Now, when I got accused of
interrupting and derailing, I wasn't intending on interrupting. I was
(14:54):
doing my best to talk the way I was told.
Normal professional pece people talk on things intended for the
public to hear. But if you get outside of the
circles of those egotistical influencers, you know, the ones online
that nobody can stand. Yeah, introverted social norms actually rule
(15:16):
the internet. Normal had literally changed on me from TV
and radio to internets. Getting a word in edge wise
around extroverts is really hard, at least for introverts, So
being more dominant in conversations had become a habit for me.
(15:42):
Even though it was an uncomfortable one, which is why
that criticism you're derailing, you're interrupting. It was mortifying, like
I wanted to crawl under a rock, now, was it true? Well,
not the derailing part, you know, derailing implies an element
of deliberateness. You know, there's a difference between a tangent
and a derail. But interrupting, yeah, I probably was. If
(16:06):
you you to watch cable news or listen to talk radio,
people are just interrupting each other all the time. So
because I'd gotten so used to the rule of interrupt
or be interrupted, that interrupting had become a normal thing,
even a good thing. Right, It was a dominance thing
(16:28):
right now. Some would argue that this has to do
with being a woman in male dominated professions, and okay,
maybe that's a factor, but I like to check these
things out, not just assume. And I noticed that men,
at least extroverted men interrupt and talk over each other
all the time too, And it's not the sort of
(16:52):
affirming interjections that women do. You know, where you're yeah, absolutely, Aha,
you're so right. Where the speaker is supposed to just
continue is just you go girl, right, there's this hierarchy
that just forms among men that guys somehow just know
(17:12):
who gets to talk the most and who when they speak,
everyone else is quiet, right, they also know what well, Okay,
I find them foolish, But these friendly insults, the ones
that you know, guys can call each other. But if
you ever called the guy that, oh lord, it would
be the worst thing you've ever said in your life. Yeah,
(17:33):
somehow that's acceptable. In these all the men are talking.
It once dynamic, and then there's this like understood unwritten
thing about who gets to interrupt and when, And this
might be where the women get interrupted more at work.
Thing comes from, you know, the unfortunate reality that alpha men,
(17:55):
even though that term is never used accurately, the alpha
men are the ones that are trying real hard to
be Alpha men tend to treat women as subservient or
a guest. Therefore, anytime a woman opens her mouth in
the masculine hierarchy, she is supposed to realize that she's
at the bottom, unless she's an honorary guy with all
(18:18):
the stuff that goes with that. And I've never been
able to figure this stuff out in a way that
I can explain and I've heard from a lot of
introverted guys that they can't figure it out either. They
don't like it anymore than I do, which is why
it's not just women, right. These guys just stay at
(18:39):
the bottom of this hierarchy and they don't like the
way that feels. Now. It might be because girls are
more socialized to actively include others, whereas boys are encouraged
to compete. But if you've got an introverted friend putting
a little effort into making sure they get a chance
(18:59):
to talk and actually finish their thoughts, even if it
takes them longer to get out, this will go a
long way towards encouraging your introverted friend to socialize more.
I've noticed though, that giving other people some space in
(19:20):
conversations will this gets swept away in the sea of
self expression. Right. We talk a lot as a culture
about freedom of speech, and we talk almost not at
all about the importance of having the patience to listen.
(19:41):
And really, if everyone's talking and no one's listening, what's
the point of all that speech. It's free, but maybe
it means free in the way of it doesn't really
have any value. Right, Is all this talking really doing
anything if no one's listening now, I want to be nuanced.
(20:06):
Moving from the interrupting, which everybody can understand. Nobody likes
to be interrupted, right, I want to be nuanced about
this next thing that drives introverts crazy about extroverts, because
there is a difference between the point I want to
make and a fawn response, which is a panic response,
which is something completely different. A fawn response where someone
(20:32):
instinctively people pleases to avoid conflict is not what I'm
talking about here. So as we move into the next section,
please give people benefit of the doubt. Eliminate the possibility
of a fawn response causing them to overtalk. I do
know a lot of introverts that are both very introverted
(20:55):
and overtalk because of a fawn response, and it leads
them to be very missing understood, and extroverts can do
it too. Can something be both a fawn response and
extrovert conditioned over talking? Yeah, yeah it can. So this one's,
you know, a bit of a tight rope. Let's tease
it out. Number seven over talking about feelings without actually
(21:20):
mentioning feelings. Extroverts, this is gonna be another tough thing
for extroverts to swallow. Introverts have been found to be
better listeners on the whole. Obviously, individual cases vary. Some
of us, yeah, we get too lost in our own
heads and we can't listen. But the studies have shown
(21:42):
that extroverts, despite their reputation for superior social skills, aren't
as good at listening. At least they're not perceived to
be as good at listening. And I've found that includes
listening to themselves. I've had numerous conversation with extroverts where
(22:02):
they literally cannot recall the thing they just said because
while it was the words they used, it wasn't literally
what they meant because they didn't think before they spoke.
They were bouncing ideas around. Let's face it, when you're talking,
(22:22):
you're not really listening. It's very hard to do both
at the same time. So many extroverts don't realize that
listening takes a lot of energy, and that's because listening
is an underrated skill to begin with. A lot of
people don't fully devote themselves to the activity. But again,
(22:44):
data shows introverts are better listeners and extroverts on the whole.
And as somebody me who listens for a living. I
can honestly say that listening properly takes work and energy.
So if you talk a lot to begin with, and
your solution to a perceived misunderstanding is to talk more,
(23:08):
you might be making the misunderstanding worse because it was
created in the first place, at least in part because
you talked too much. Now this is especially significant in
conversations about feelings. I'll bring this up a lot, but many,
many people talk about feelings allegedly while referencing absolutely zero
(23:29):
actual feelings. If you're someone who listens to understand as
opposed to listening to respond, when you hear I feel
you usually listen very carefully to what comes next. And
if someone talks for five minutes and doesn't mention a
single actual feeling, you get confused and don't know what
to make of what they just said. What exactly are
(23:52):
they trying to tell you? But asking some extroverts what
they're trying to say, ahten results at another ten minute
speech without any more clarity. And it's worse when you
get all these negative, critical sounding statements wrapped up with
(24:13):
I'm not saying it's your fault or I don't think
you meant to thing. I mean, I was reminded of
how difficult that is to take right. I'm not saying
it's your fault, but I felt extremely criticized by what
you said. And I don't think you meant to make
me cry, but I was crying the old time. And
(24:34):
how the heck do you not feel blamed in that? Right?
If they don't think it was your fault, if they
don't think you meant to, why are they talking about
it's so much. There's only so many times you can hear.
I'm not saying it's your fault before you start wondering
(24:57):
if the new over talker is telling you the truth.
And I'm not trying to be harsh here. I'm not
trying to mock anyone. I'm not. If this is difficult
to hear, it's because it's difficult to be on the
receiving end of right, especially when there's a problem that
needs to be solved. It is exhausting, you trapesing through
(25:19):
the weeds of all this extraverbiage. It's amazing to me
how many words some extroverts can say will conveying little
to no meaning other than vibes. And I say this
as somebody who had to realize that, especially when people
are just listening, it's good to say something multiple ways
(25:43):
so that first of all repetition, they get it listening
instead of reading, where people can go over a line
multiple times that they want to. But also sometimes people
will understand it if you say it the second way
as opposed to the first. Right, But that's not what
I'm talking about here. I'm talking about when someone is
(26:04):
just saying more and more and more and a person
is staring at them and they're clearly confused, and it's
amazing how some extrovert seem completely oblivious to the fact
that the listener is confused. It really isn't that hard
to slow down and take things in smaller pieces if
(26:25):
there isn't some sort of underlying trauma. If you think
that it is, you know, you're trying to outrun a
judgment that might be that fawn response I was talking
about off the top, right, Even if that's so overwhelming
(26:46):
an introvert with a lot of words, then criticizing us
for being overwhelmed that doesn't do anything helpful or productive
now overwhelms a separate issue, and I want to talk
about that after the break we need breathers, you know,
we give We need to give extroverts time to process
(27:06):
the way it's introverts like our processing time. Don't get
it from extraversyptimes anyway. We'll continue after the break on
our list of ten things the drive introverts crazy about
talking to extroverts, Questions, comments, concerns. Leanna at nontherapyshow dot com,
not therapyshow dot com as the website at non Therapy
Show on x that's Twitter, former Twitter, Instagram, and threads.
(27:28):
We'll be back on It's not there.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Stream us live at SAGA nine to six am dot CA.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
The following program is a peer to peer advice show
and does not diagnose mental health conditions. If you're seeking
social services, please call or text two to one one
or go to two one one dot ca. We're back
intos not therapy. I'm still the inn a cursoner. I'm
still not a therapist. We're still talking about ten things
(28:01):
that drive introverts crazy about communicating with extroverts. So far,
we've covered violation of boundaries. It's not for our own good,
accusing us of being rude, to blunt, annoying, or confusing.
When us introverts do speak interrupting and over explaining, especially
telling us how you feel with no actual feeling words,
(28:25):
and as promised before the break, we're gonna talk about
number six. Extroverts can sometimes be kind of jerks about
introverts being overwhelmed. Now, extroverts can also get socially worn
out eventually. So some think that they get it, they
understand introvert overwhelm, right, It's like it's like them overscheduling
(28:47):
themselves and feeling tired. No, I'm really not sure it's
possible for an extrovert to understand introvert overwhelmed because it
happens based on a degree of socialization that society treats
as normal. Therefore, we feel like there's something wrong with
(29:11):
us when we're exhausted by it. I don't think extroverts
can relate to it the same way. I can't imagine
being fueled by being in crowds of people, by needing
that right, but getting depressed if you spend too much
time alone. You know, it takes a lot of alone
time for me to feel like, oh man, I'm feeling
cut off in the world, you know, But I accept
(29:34):
that some people need a lot more people time than
I do. I accept that I just have no idea
how it actually works. A real misconception among extroverts is
the thinking that introverts can just push through that social overwhelm.
(29:56):
The problem with we're trying to push through any kind
of overwhelm is it makes the overwhelm worse. To put
it lightly, it's not fun when I'm overwhelmed and people
start making fun of me or criticizing me for being
zoned out. When an introvert is pushed to respond while overwhelmed, well,
sometimes we snap because we're struggling to process and we're
(30:18):
approaching or we've hit the point of panic, and then
we get criticized for that too by an extrovert just
telling you the truth, just telling you how I feel,
just trying to help, right, Please don't do that. Most
introverts are sympathetic to the fact that extroverts need social
time or you get depressed again, something we can't relate to,
(30:39):
even though we accept it. So please give us the
same dignity by giving us a minute when crowds get
too much, and maybe letting us bow out of things
occasionally without hearing about it, because sometimes it just gets
too much and we cannot help it. And don't expect
us to remember things you told us when we were overwhelmed.
(31:01):
We're likely not going to remember precisely because our brains
were in a state of internally screaming. While we're on
that subject, let's talk about the fifth thing extroverts do
that drives introverts crazy, bad, crazy Number five telling us
we didn't tell you something that we very much did
(31:23):
tell you. You were just too busy talking and you
didn't hear us. Alternatively, we tried to tell you, but
we couldn't get a word in edgewys. I'm convinced that
for some extroverts, the purpose of having a conversation is
to get in a room and everybody makes noise, right,
Actually retaining anything is sort of secondary to the exercise.
(31:47):
And again, not all introverts, just some. You know that
guy at parties and sporting events who just keeps going whoo.
You know that guy, sometimes followed by the word beer, right, Yeah,
that guy. We all know that guy. So based on
(32:09):
that guy, if you're trying to tell someone something, well
they're going whoa beer? Right? Yeah? Is pausible extrovert yelling
woo beer, We didn't try to tell you, but you
didn't hear us it was too hard to get your
attention to interject, you know, Or we tried to tell
(32:32):
you and we got interrupted by beer and we didn't
actually get to the park. You're saying you didn't tell me,
But some of the time maybe you just consumed too
much beer and you just forgot. For introverts, that's a
unique form of frustration. And here's why. Okay, talking is
(32:53):
hard to begin with. It's difficult and discouraging. If there's
no retention. It's even worse when we get told we
didn't say anything because we know he said something, because
we know it was hard for us, or we know, yeah,
(33:14):
we didn't say anything. We tried real hard, but we
got interrupted six times and never got it out. If
you do that, you didn't tell me, You need to
speak up more. An introvert's probably gonna tell you even
fewer things because why bother it's gonna land with you
(33:35):
didn't tell me anyway, you know. And this probably gives
some context to the number four way, the fourth fourth
to the top way that extroverts drive introverts utterly crazy.
It's the advice just be yourself or just put yourself
(33:57):
out there. Yeah. No, when we're introvertedself, we're told that
it's going to ruin our chances of success in life
because we're the bad introvertself instead of the good extrovertself.
So you know that, just be yourself, Just put yourself
out there. Take that advice and do kindly shove it
(34:19):
up your social butterfly backside. If we were ourselves, we'd
stay quietly in a corner and read a book, or
we'd stay home quietly and read a book, or go
for a walk in a quiet forest, possibly with a book.
We wouldn't be at bloody speed dating. Don't tell someone
who is already out of their comfort zone to just
(34:42):
be themselves. They are already in a state of feeling
forced to not be themselves. Similarly, just put yourself out
there is not useful advice to an introvert. You might
as well tell a fish to fly. Even so called
fly banfish don't actually fly. They just leap out of
(35:04):
the water and glide through the air temporarily to escape predators.
That's actually a pretty decent metaphor for introvert socialization and crowds.
We do it, but we have to. But the entire
experience isn't exercising the predator check out of the water
fly free splash right. Again, it's not that we don't
(35:26):
like people, we just don't like too many people at once.
The problem with putting ourselves out there is that, you know,
it's the first thing I set off the top. It
usually comes with numerous boundary violations. So it's really hard
(35:46):
to just go, ohh, just just put yourself out there,
like it's so easy, you know. Instead of just put
yourself out there, just be yourself. Offer to go out
with the introvert to help them navigate all the additional
social choices, because I'm gonna let you in on a
thing about introvert socialization. Often the hardest part of going
(36:10):
somewhere is literally going there. It's leaving your house and
going into a new space. Once you're in, like once
you're past the front door, it sometimes gets easier because
showing up is the part where you're going, Okay, this
is the thing I can control. After I'm in there,
(36:31):
it's going to be out of my control and there
will be boundary violations. So once you're in and you're
already having your boundaries violated, well, you're just sort of
rolling with it right, rolling in the deep. Yeah. Ah,
that's a hard truth. It's kind of wow. Gonna sit
with that. Now, let's go to the break. We got
(36:52):
three more after our final break, so let's come back
and rip that band aid off. Questions, comments, concerns. Leanna
Attnot Therapy showed up dot com. Not Therapyshow dot com
at not Therapy show on socials, or you can go
to red Leanna k on coffee uh and kick me
a few bucks there if you want to directly support
(37:14):
this show. When we come back more three more things
the drive introverts crazy about dealing with extroverts. Some extroverts,
others are lovely. When we come back on It's not Therapy.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
No Radio, no Problem. Stream is live on SAGA ninety
six am dot C.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
The following program is a peer to peer advice show
and does not diagnose mental health conditions. If you're seeking
social services, please call or text two to one one
or go to two one one dot CA. We're back
in this therapy. I'm still Leanna Cursor, I'm still not
a therapist. We're still talking about ten things that drive
(37:58):
introverts bad crazy about dealing with some underline. Some extroverts,
and we've done seven so far. They are extroverts ten.
Number ten to violate our boundaries, and it's not for
our own good. Number nine Extroverts accuse us of being rude,
to blunt, annoying, or confusing when we do speak. Number
(38:21):
eight introvert. Extroverts tend to interrupt us introverts extra intro
extra int okay. Number seven Extroverts over explain, especially telling
us how they felt, containing no actual feeling words. Number
six Extroverts can be a real jerk when US introverts
(38:43):
get overwhelmed. Number five extroverts say you didn't tell me,
I didn't know when either, Yeah, you did tell them,
they just weren't paying attention because they were too busy talking,
or US introverts couldn't get a word in edgewise. We tried.
And Number four the xtrat platitudes of just put yourself
out there and be yourself now. Number three this might
(39:08):
take a little unpacking, but this happens more often than
you might think. Number three is extroverts referring to us
introverts as anti social or sociopathic, and this might be
shocking to you. More empathic extroverts out there, that anyone
would do this, I assure you they do. It's partially
(39:31):
because of that. He was quiet, he kept to himself,
you know, mass shooter stereotype. And that's exactly why it's
not at all cool. Right. It's up there with like
video games and like violent movies. So many people watch
that stuff, play that stuff. Lots of people are quiet.
(39:53):
Quiet is not a predictor of you know, psychopathic desocial behavior.
It's just not. There's too many quiet people out there
and too few people who do like violent things. Right.
You might think it's funny to make this connection because
of the way media makes psychopathy seem sexy, But for
(40:16):
an introvert who's already sensitive about the social stigma against introversion,
it's just perpetuating the idea that introversion is a mental
illness instead of just a less common form of a
normal state of being, a perfectly healthy state of being. Right,
number two is connected to that number two. I mentioned
(40:39):
this way off the top of the boundary violations, but
it needed its own swat. Extroverts, please stop giving us
unsolicited air quotes. Help, right, don't set us up with
your friends unless we ask don't spring a social gathering
on us. Don't just stop by without calling first because
(41:00):
you think we need a night out. Right, stop forcing
us to suddenly socialize. You're not some manic pixie dream girl.
In an early two thousand Sundance Film Festival movie, Introverts
isn't a disease to be cured, Like I said, it's
a valid personality type. We want to socialize. We do.
(41:25):
It just takes more out of us. The more we're
forced to do it, the less we choose to us.
Staying at home doesn't mean we're necessarily depressed the way
you would be. In fact, forcing us to socialize too
much might actually lead to us becoming depressed because our
boundaries are not being respected. It's only help if it's
(41:52):
actually helpful. No matter how well meaning you are, please ask,
please care, whether introverts actually want this stuff. If your
introverted friends says, hey, I need help getting dragged out,
please just I make kick and scream, But remind me
(42:13):
I said this. That's one thing. But if you just
decide you're going to fix your friend, please don't. It's
not fixing anything. And this is where we come to
our number one. Our number one thing that extroverts due
to introverts that drive us introverts bad crazy, let's recap
before we do it. Okay, so number ten violating our
(42:36):
boundaries it's not for our own good. Number nine accusing
us of being rude, to blunt, annoying, or confusing when
we do finally open our mouths. Number eight interrupting, number
seven over explaining. Number six being a jerk about us
getting overwhelmed. Number five saying you didn't tell me I
didn't know. Number four of the platitudes of just put
(42:57):
yourself out there, be yourself. Number three referring to us
as anti social or a sociopath. Number two is unsolicited help,
and number one extroverts ghost us influence introverts because they're
tired of as being a buzzkill or never wanting to
(43:18):
do anything. And strangely, some extroverts they love to talk
unless it's actually about feelings, not the fake I feel
that you didn't do what I wanted. Right now, I
feel blank, happy, said angry, pick your inside out character. Right.
(43:40):
Instead of having the potentially difficult conversation with your introvert
friend about their comfort or discomfort with socialization, extroverts just
ditch us when they find someone more fun. Right, and
I know a lot oft I have a lot of clients,
(44:02):
introverted clients who live in fear of exactly this kind
of abandonment. Now, don't get me wrong, extroverts, you have
the right to hang out with or not hang out
with anyone you want. But because introverts have fewer friends,
this sucks really hard. You know, and the extrovert may
(44:22):
think it's avoiding confrontation, which may have good intent. But ghosting,
we know, has a lot of negative psychological impacts, especially
when it happens in cycles, so you know, it can
contribute to anxiety, depression, and you know the person being
(44:43):
ghosted questioning reality. So okay, if someone straight up abusive
and tends to blow up when you try to have
a conversation with them, fair, that's an understandable reason to ghost, right.
The point is you tried to have the conversation. If
you're just ditching someone, expect that to hurt, especially with
(45:08):
someone who is introverted, who has fewer friends. But the
relationships tend to be closer, and introverts are you know,
tend to be more attached to their individual friends. So
if you've thrown the word friend around with an introvert
(45:29):
and then you just suddenly drop them without a word.
That is gonna hurt them. So don't throw the word
friend around so liberally to begin with. But also the
minute you do consider someone your friend a friend deserves
trying to have the conversation at least try about. Look,
(45:55):
you don't seem to enjoy going to these parties. You
seem to not be having a good time. Is there
something we can do differently? Or should I just stop
inviting you? If the person says, yeah, just stop inviting
me to the parties, it's not ghosting, right, it's not.
But just ghosting can make the introverted person feel like
(46:17):
a failure. Is that your responsibility? No, absolutely, it's not.
But introverts are people just like extroverts are, even though
we're treated as weird and creepy. Right, Yeah, the dreaded
creepy word. That's another one. But I think that that
fits in a way into number three. Yeah, anti social
(46:39):
or sociopathic. Anyway, we've only got a minute to go
in the show. Ish, So questions, comments, concern suggestions for
a topic, another topic of a top ten list or
something otherwise Leanna at not Therapy Show, Not Therapyshow dot
com is the website. If you forget how to spell
my name, it's Lia and is a Nancy a at
(47:01):
not Therapyshow dot com or at not Therapy on socials.
I hope you enjoyed this program. And we're feeling a
little bit beat up extroverts because somebody just talked for
you know, an hour straight with commercial breaks, or forty
eight minutes on the web, and you're feeling a bit
overloaded and overwhelmed. While that was a lot to process,
(47:25):
Welcome to the world of being an introvert around extroverts.
This has been an empathy exercise. I'm being snarky this episode.
I think I'm working some stuff out. It has definitely
been that first gasp of summer. Oh my god, so
many people. That mall was so very crowded. What would
(47:47):
a mall for inftroverts look like? All? Right, online shopping?
I love you online shopping anyway, Thanks for listening this week.
I don't know why it's so difficult for society to
sort of get it's collective head around the idea that
some people need this stuff and other people need that stuff,
(48:08):
and the fact that we're different is good. Diversity of viewpoint. Yeah,
so good. Anyway, that's my time. Hope you enjoyed the show. Introverts,
I know you feel loved. Extroverts, don't worry. Don't worry.
I still love you. We're all good. Remember you're crazy
and my crazy is only a problem if it's hurting us.
(48:30):
See you next time.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Stream us live at SAGA nine am dot CA.
The views expressed in the following program are those of
the participants and do not necessarily reflect the views of
SAGA nine to sixty AM or its management.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
The following program is a peer to peer advice show
and does not diagnose mental health conditions. If you're seeking
social services, please call or text two to one one
or go to two one one dot CA. Hello, listeners
around the world on radio, streaming and podcast services. This
is It's not therapy. I'm Leanna Kerzner, and I am
(00:29):
not a therapist, but I am your source for navigating
the madness of mental health using my top ten sayings
for going good crazy. This week, I'm doing another list
because the weather's gotten nicer, the pressures to socialize have
gotten greater, and so I wanted to deliver a message
on behalf of my fellow introverts. Dear extroverts, stop trying
to force us to be like you. It's not that
(00:54):
all introverts like me. Yes, I am an introvert. It's
not that we hate people. We quite like people. We
just have smaller social batteries, do better in one on
one groups, and need alone time to recharge. We are
not fueled by being around the masses the way extroverts were.
(01:15):
I was at a mall over the weekend, a busy mall.
Shout out to Fairview Mall. The food court there is killer.
I love that as much as I love the channel
Mozella outa Maaya. Shout out to Amaya. There were a
few moments where the sheer number of people overwhelmed me.
Now I'm not alone. Introverts are somewhere between twenty five
(01:38):
percent and forty percent of the population, or it's a
big margin, I know. And yes it's a minority, no
matter which number you take, but it's a large minority.
You know, one in four to two out of three.
It's one out of three people more than that are
our introverts. So I'll try to keep the incoming rant
(01:59):
is brief as possible, but this is an important baseline
for what we're going to talk about. For years, there
was a reinforcing bias in the field of psychology regarding
personality traits and whether they could predict success. Psychologists found
that extroverts tended to do better in life, and therefore
the theory form that extroversion was a success skill, as
(02:22):
opposed to the idea that the world was just built
for extroverts. Well, introversion was a problem that needed to
be trained out of people for their own good instead
of you know, changing the system so it benefited more people.
Here's the problem with the idea of extroversion, good introversion.
Bad introverts like me can fake extraversion when we need to.
(02:46):
I'm doing it right now, but that isn't the same
thing as actually being an extrovert. Well, personality can't shift
over a person's life. There's really no way to brute
force changes in a person's personality without them seeing the
benefits of the change, at which point it becomes not
brute forcing. It hasn't been that long since psychologists realize
(03:10):
that introversion is actually beneficial for tasks, important tasks like
computer programming or research. So in a lot of places,
introversion is not just treated as abnormal, but it's treated
as something that's actively bad or harmful. Introversion is often
confused with being antisocial, and like I said off the top,
(03:34):
it's not. We like people just in smaller doses, and
we need breaks now. Because introversion is treated like the
worse of the two main personality options. The structures of
society favor extroverts, like I said before, which makes it
even harder for introverts to socialize. So I thought i'd
(03:58):
do a show about ten things introvers would like extroverts
to know about the things that drive us crazy. And
I want to be clear before we start. This isn't
all extroverts. There are some lovely extroverted people that I know.
These are just things that you know, you might not
be aware of. This is the effect it has, and
I'm gonna be blood at times because that's, you know,
(04:20):
more of a Catharsis for us introverts. So let's get
started with number ten. Extroverts tend to violate our boundaries,
and it is not for our own good. I ask
the members of my highly introverted discord server what their
biggest social pet peeves were, and the bulk of them
(04:40):
were about boundary violations, unwanted hugs, cheek kisses insisting that
people smile, more comments about socialization, and air quoteses advice
to an extrovert. The thinking is all of this behavior
is I'm being friendly, and that's the problem. You're trying
(05:03):
to be nice to an introvert by treating them like
an extrovert. And that isn't accepting us for who we
are now. Some introverts like hugs. I happen to be
a hugger, but I hate being forced into physical contact
with people the minute of physical gesture is expected, or
worse demanded, it starts becoming extremely uncomfortable for me. When
(05:28):
social norms insist that you touch other people to be polite,
it further drains the social batteries of introverts who don't
like the hugging, kissing, backslapping, playful insults, and well meaning
unsolicited advice. More on that later. If you want your
introverted friends to spend extrovert amounts of time socializing, doing
(05:50):
things that make that easier instead of harder is the
most logical course. Being friendly means being a friend, and
friends care about the com of other friends. It doesn't
take much to ask would you like some advice? It's
okay to say no before proceeding with said advice. And
if you're really such an adepth social butterfly, you're capable
(06:12):
of assessing signs of discomfort in the people around you.
If your more introverted friend goes even quieter when you
keep calling them that nickname, you've had forum based on
an embarrassing event in the fifth grade. Maybe it's time
to knock that off, oh, master of social environment extrovert.
Moving on to number nine, are we warmed up? Woo?
I'm warmed up? Yeah, introverts along, Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah,
(06:36):
extroverts are going what anyway? Number nine on the list
of stuff extroverts want introverts want extroverts to know is
driving us crazy? Is connected to the number ten boundary
vesting reality. It's number nine is often a reaction to
a boundary violation, but sometimes it's not. It's about the
reality that introverts tend to use fewer words. Number nine.
(07:00):
Extroverts accuse us of being rude, too blunt, annoying, or
confusing when we do speak. There's nothing worse for an
introvert than an extrovert with a judgmental streak. It's extremely
encouraging to hear you never talk, only to hear, oh
my god, rude when you finally do open your mouth.
(07:21):
Trust me, us introverts have heard how terrible our social
skills are our entire lives, even when they're not. Yeah,
some people listening to the shows like, what do you
mean your social skills are terrible, or some of you
your social skills are terrible. Word, I can't stay on
the radio. But yeah, you know, I'm a professional communicator,
(07:41):
and I still use to get told all the time
that my social skills sucked. So instant criticism of the
way we speak when we do speak is a great
way to make us not want to speak again. Because
introverts don't talk to fill space, and I understand that
(08:03):
there's a socials function to small talk. I'm not criticizing that,
just we don't do it as much. We actually think
and choose our words before speaking, unlike a lot of
extroverts who figure things out externally. You know that whole
I want to bounce some ideas off people. Here's the thing, extroverts,
(08:28):
if you're one of those people who's talking a lot,
if you're just speaking your mind bouncing ideas around, people
are more used to only listening to. Oh, I'll go
out and say about thirty percent of what you say. Sorry, extroverts,
It's true. There's a lot of filler in what you say,
and so people, at the best of times only half listen.
(08:50):
See I went up from thirty percent to a half
I'm being agreeable. The upside of that is that people
who aren't really listening don't get as easily offended. Because
introverts say less. Every word we use packs a greater punch,
so we like more benefit of the doubt and less
(09:11):
negative judgments of our intent from extroverts, because an introvert
communicates in five words what would take an extrovert twenty See. Also, yes,
we may need to backfill some, but we're not confusing,
we're not annoying. Right, Yeah, there's some give and take here. Okay.
(09:33):
I've put a lot of work into explaining why I'm
saying something before I say it to minimize misunderstandings. But
I've found the extravert communication style bias so strong that
I'll be very clear about my intentions for saying something.
I will say this is why I am saying this,
only for an extrovert to insist I get a totally
(09:55):
different motivation because every other person they've ever known met
something different when they said what I said, and it's
usually something passive, aggressive instead of just the clear surface
meaning of the words. And I chose those words because
of their clear literal meaning, because that's what I was
actually trying to say no ulterior motive. So not only
(10:18):
are introverts slower to talk, but we tend to get
stepped on and talked over when we do. So, when
extroverts finally start noticing we've said something, we're already frustrated
because we just got stepped on five times we were
trying to make our point, and then we get criticized
for that frustration. Yeah, okay, yes there's ways of expressing frustration,
(10:40):
but then we have to hear about how the extrovert
is frustrated too because they didn't like how we said
what we said, and hearing that takes ten minutes. But
we're not supposed to feel criticized because the extroverse is
just telling us how they feel. Meanwhile, the entire thing
that we, the introvert, were trying to say that was
important enough for us to finally open our mouths about, well,
(11:03):
that got totally lost in the sheer volume of words
that the extrovert used to explain why they were frustrated
because we were frustrated. Now, interrupting and telling us how
you feel while not listening to how we're feeling are
different issues, and those are things that also drive introverts
(11:23):
nuts about some extroverts and we'll get to that after
the break. Do you have a story you think would
be good for the show. Are you interested in sponsoring
the show? Leanna atnthapyshow dot com not therapyshow dot com
is the website at no Therapy Show on xcess, Twitter,
Instagram and threads. And if you want to kick some
money to my coffee, it's read Leanna. Kay. I have
(11:44):
to start, I have to start referencing that anyway. Anyway,
we'll be back after the break. Ten things that introverts
want extroverts you know, drives us crazy when we come
back on.
Speaker 1 (11:54):
It's not therapy, no Radio, No Problem. Stream is live
on SAGA nine six am dot C.
Speaker 2 (12:08):
The following program is a peer to peer advice show
and does not diagnose mental health conditions. If you're seeking
social services, please call or text two to one one
or go to two one one dot CA. We're back
in as therapy. I'm still in a curse now, I'm
still not a therapist. We are still talking about ten
things introverts would like extroverts to know about. Well, I'll
(12:32):
be more polite before than I was before the break.
Taking your normal status for granted, and being well kind
of pushy, right, and it wears us out. Before the break,
I talked about number ten. Extroverts ten to violate introverts boundaries. No,
it's not for our own good, thank you. Nine Extroverts
(12:56):
accuse us of being rude, tu blunt, annoying, or confusing
when we do speak, just because we don't talk to
buy the way they do. And in that conversation about
number nine, I stumbled into two more points the over
expressing that some extroverts do, especially about well what they
call feelings. More on that, But then there's interrupting. And
(13:20):
let's be ironic and start with interrupting. So number eight
is extroverts tend to interrupt, No, you do. The studies
show it. It's not that introverts never interrupt, it's that
extroverts do it habitually, and it's not an intent to interrupt.
(13:42):
I study communication because so much of it is weird.
And I notice when you have a bunch of extroverts talking,
they talk over each other as a habit and it
seems to work out right well. Introverts tend to air
on the side of avoiding interrupting, which means leaving longer
(14:05):
gaps in communication that extroverts then take is an invitation
to talk. Now. I am acutely aware of this because
you know, I did conventional, you know, off the cuff,
nonscripted television and talk radio for years, and then I
switched to doing a lot of stuff online. And this
(14:28):
online stuff included doing streams, and I got accused of
interrupting and derailing. And if you hear what sounds like
a cat yelling in the background, yes, she is being
very extroverted right now. Now, when I got accused of
interrupting and derailing, I wasn't intending on interrupting. I was
(14:54):
doing my best to talk the way I was told.
Normal professional pece people talk on things intended for the
public to hear. But if you get outside of the
circles of those egotistical influencers, you know, the ones online
that nobody can stand. Yeah, introverted social norms actually rule
(15:16):
the internet. Normal had literally changed on me from TV
and radio to internets. Getting a word in edge wise
around extroverts is really hard, at least for introverts, So
being more dominant in conversations had become a habit for me.
(15:42):
Even though it was an uncomfortable one, which is why
that criticism you're derailing, you're interrupting. It was mortifying, like
I wanted to crawl under a rock, now, was it true? Well,
not the derailing part, you know, derailing implies an element
of deliberateness. You know, there's a difference between a tangent
and a derail. But interrupting, yeah, I probably was. If
(16:06):
you you to watch cable news or listen to talk radio,
people are just interrupting each other all the time. So
because I'd gotten so used to the rule of interrupt
or be interrupted, that interrupting had become a normal thing,
even a good thing. Right, It was a dominance thing
(16:28):
right now. Some would argue that this has to do
with being a woman in male dominated professions, and okay,
maybe that's a factor, but I like to check these
things out, not just assume. And I noticed that men,
at least extroverted men interrupt and talk over each other
all the time too, And it's not the sort of
(16:52):
affirming interjections that women do. You know, where you're yeah, absolutely, Aha,
you're so right. Where the speaker is supposed to just
continue is just you go girl, right, there's this hierarchy
that just forms among men that guys somehow just know
(17:12):
who gets to talk the most and who when they speak,
everyone else is quiet, right, they also know what well, Okay,
I find them foolish, But these friendly insults, the ones
that you know, guys can call each other. But if
you ever called the guy that, oh lord, it would
be the worst thing you've ever said in your life. Yeah,
(17:33):
somehow that's acceptable. In these all the men are talking.
It once dynamic, and then there's this like understood unwritten
thing about who gets to interrupt and when, And this
might be where the women get interrupted more at work.
Thing comes from, you know, the unfortunate reality that alpha men,
(17:55):
even though that term is never used accurately, the alpha
men are the ones that are trying real hard to
be Alpha men tend to treat women as subservient or
a guest. Therefore, anytime a woman opens her mouth in
the masculine hierarchy, she is supposed to realize that she's
at the bottom, unless she's an honorary guy with all
(18:18):
the stuff that goes with that. And I've never been
able to figure this stuff out in a way that
I can explain and I've heard from a lot of
introverted guys that they can't figure it out either. They
don't like it anymore than I do, which is why
it's not just women, right. These guys just stay at
(18:39):
the bottom of this hierarchy and they don't like the
way that feels. Now. It might be because girls are
more socialized to actively include others, whereas boys are encouraged
to compete. But if you've got an introverted friend putting
a little effort into making sure they get a chance
(18:59):
to talk and actually finish their thoughts, even if it
takes them longer to get out, this will go a
long way towards encouraging your introverted friend to socialize more.
I've noticed though, that giving other people some space in
(19:20):
conversations will this gets swept away in the sea of
self expression. Right. We talk a lot as a culture
about freedom of speech, and we talk almost not at
all about the importance of having the patience to listen.
(19:41):
And really, if everyone's talking and no one's listening, what's
the point of all that speech. It's free, but maybe
it means free in the way of it doesn't really
have any value. Right, Is all this talking really doing
anything if no one's listening now, I want to be nuanced.
(20:06):
Moving from the interrupting, which everybody can understand. Nobody likes
to be interrupted, right, I want to be nuanced about
this next thing that drives introverts crazy about extroverts, because
there is a difference between the point I want to
make and a fawn response, which is a panic response,
which is something completely different. A fawn response where someone
(20:32):
instinctively people pleases to avoid conflict is not what I'm
talking about here. So as we move into the next section,
please give people benefit of the doubt. Eliminate the possibility
of a fawn response causing them to overtalk. I do
know a lot of introverts that are both very introverted
(20:55):
and overtalk because of a fawn response, and it leads
them to be very missing understood, and extroverts can do
it too. Can something be both a fawn response and
extrovert conditioned over talking? Yeah, yeah it can. So this one's,
you know, a bit of a tight rope. Let's tease
it out. Number seven over talking about feelings without actually
(21:20):
mentioning feelings. Extroverts, this is gonna be another tough thing
for extroverts to swallow. Introverts have been found to be
better listeners on the whole. Obviously, individual cases vary. Some
of us, yeah, we get too lost in our own
heads and we can't listen. But the studies have shown
(21:42):
that extroverts, despite their reputation for superior social skills, aren't
as good at listening. At least they're not perceived to
be as good at listening. And I've found that includes
listening to themselves. I've had numerous conversation with extroverts where
(22:02):
they literally cannot recall the thing they just said because
while it was the words they used, it wasn't literally
what they meant because they didn't think before they spoke.
They were bouncing ideas around. Let's face it, when you're talking,
(22:22):
you're not really listening. It's very hard to do both
at the same time. So many extroverts don't realize that
listening takes a lot of energy, and that's because listening
is an underrated skill to begin with. A lot of
people don't fully devote themselves to the activity. But again,
(22:44):
data shows introverts are better listeners and extroverts on the whole.
And as somebody me who listens for a living. I
can honestly say that listening properly takes work and energy.
So if you talk a lot to begin with, and
your solution to a perceived misunderstanding is to talk more,
(23:08):
you might be making the misunderstanding worse because it was
created in the first place, at least in part because
you talked too much. Now this is especially significant in
conversations about feelings. I'll bring this up a lot, but many,
many people talk about feelings allegedly while referencing absolutely zero
(23:29):
actual feelings. If you're someone who listens to understand as
opposed to listening to respond, when you hear I feel
you usually listen very carefully to what comes next. And
if someone talks for five minutes and doesn't mention a
single actual feeling, you get confused and don't know what
to make of what they just said. What exactly are
(23:52):
they trying to tell you? But asking some extroverts what
they're trying to say, ahten results at another ten minute
speech without any more clarity. And it's worse when you
get all these negative, critical sounding statements wrapped up with
(24:13):
I'm not saying it's your fault or I don't think
you meant to thing. I mean, I was reminded of
how difficult that is to take right. I'm not saying
it's your fault, but I felt extremely criticized by what
you said. And I don't think you meant to make
me cry, but I was crying the old time. And
(24:34):
how the heck do you not feel blamed in that? Right?
If they don't think it was your fault, if they
don't think you meant to, why are they talking about
it's so much. There's only so many times you can hear.
I'm not saying it's your fault before you start wondering
(24:57):
if the new over talker is telling you the truth.
And I'm not trying to be harsh here. I'm not
trying to mock anyone. I'm not. If this is difficult
to hear, it's because it's difficult to be on the
receiving end of right, especially when there's a problem that
needs to be solved. It is exhausting, you trapesing through
(25:19):
the weeds of all this extraverbiage. It's amazing to me
how many words some extroverts can say will conveying little
to no meaning other than vibes. And I say this
as somebody who had to realize that, especially when people
are just listening, it's good to say something multiple ways
(25:43):
so that first of all repetition, they get it listening
instead of reading, where people can go over a line
multiple times that they want to. But also sometimes people
will understand it if you say it the second way
as opposed to the first. Right, But that's not what
I'm talking about here. I'm talking about when someone is
(26:04):
just saying more and more and more and a person
is staring at them and they're clearly confused, and it's
amazing how some extrovert seem completely oblivious to the fact
that the listener is confused. It really isn't that hard
to slow down and take things in smaller pieces if
(26:25):
there isn't some sort of underlying trauma. If you think
that it is, you know, you're trying to outrun a
judgment that might be that fawn response I was talking
about off the top, right, Even if that's so overwhelming
(26:46):
an introvert with a lot of words, then criticizing us
for being overwhelmed that doesn't do anything helpful or productive
now overwhelms a separate issue, and I want to talk
about that after the break we need breathers, you know,
we give We need to give extroverts time to process
(27:06):
the way it's introverts like our processing time. Don't get
it from extraversyptimes anyway. We'll continue after the break on
our list of ten things the drive introverts crazy about
talking to extroverts, Questions, comments, concerns. Leanna at nontherapyshow dot com,
not therapyshow dot com as the website at non Therapy
Show on x that's Twitter, former Twitter, Instagram, and threads.
(27:28):
We'll be back on It's not there.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Stream us live at SAGA nine to six am dot CA.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
The following program is a peer to peer advice show
and does not diagnose mental health conditions. If you're seeking
social services, please call or text two to one one
or go to two one one dot ca. We're back
intos not therapy. I'm still the inn a cursoner. I'm
still not a therapist. We're still talking about ten things
(28:01):
that drive introverts crazy about communicating with extroverts. So far,
we've covered violation of boundaries. It's not for our own good,
accusing us of being rude, to blunt, annoying, or confusing.
When us introverts do speak interrupting and over explaining, especially
telling us how you feel with no actual feeling words,
(28:25):
and as promised before the break, we're gonna talk about
number six. Extroverts can sometimes be kind of jerks about
introverts being overwhelmed. Now, extroverts can also get socially worn
out eventually. So some think that they get it, they
understand introvert overwhelm, right, It's like it's like them overscheduling
(28:47):
themselves and feeling tired. No, I'm really not sure it's
possible for an extrovert to understand introvert overwhelmed because it
happens based on a degree of socialization that society treats
as normal. Therefore, we feel like there's something wrong with
(29:11):
us when we're exhausted by it. I don't think extroverts
can relate to it the same way. I can't imagine
being fueled by being in crowds of people, by needing
that right, but getting depressed if you spend too much
time alone. You know, it takes a lot of alone
time for me to feel like, oh man, I'm feeling
cut off in the world, you know, But I accept
(29:34):
that some people need a lot more people time than
I do. I accept that I just have no idea
how it actually works. A real misconception among extroverts is
the thinking that introverts can just push through that social overwhelm.
(29:56):
The problem with we're trying to push through any kind
of overwhelm is it makes the overwhelm worse. To put
it lightly, it's not fun when I'm overwhelmed and people
start making fun of me or criticizing me for being
zoned out. When an introvert is pushed to respond while overwhelmed, well,
sometimes we snap because we're struggling to process and we're
(30:18):
approaching or we've hit the point of panic, and then
we get criticized for that too by an extrovert just
telling you the truth, just telling you how I feel,
just trying to help, right, Please don't do that. Most
introverts are sympathetic to the fact that extroverts need social
time or you get depressed again, something we can't relate to,
(30:39):
even though we accept it. So please give us the
same dignity by giving us a minute when crowds get
too much, and maybe letting us bow out of things
occasionally without hearing about it, because sometimes it just gets
too much and we cannot help it. And don't expect
us to remember things you told us when we were overwhelmed.
(31:01):
We're likely not going to remember precisely because our brains
were in a state of internally screaming. While we're on
that subject, let's talk about the fifth thing extroverts do
that drives introverts crazy, bad, crazy Number five telling us
we didn't tell you something that we very much did
(31:23):
tell you. You were just too busy talking and you
didn't hear us. Alternatively, we tried to tell you, but
we couldn't get a word in edgewys. I'm convinced that
for some extroverts, the purpose of having a conversation is
to get in a room and everybody makes noise, right,
Actually retaining anything is sort of secondary to the exercise.
(31:47):
And again, not all introverts, just some. You know that
guy at parties and sporting events who just keeps going whoo.
You know that guy, sometimes followed by the word beer, right, Yeah,
that guy. We all know that guy. So based on
(32:09):
that guy, if you're trying to tell someone something, well
they're going whoa beer? Right? Yeah? Is pausible extrovert yelling
woo beer, We didn't try to tell you, but you
didn't hear us it was too hard to get your
attention to interject, you know, Or we tried to tell
(32:32):
you and we got interrupted by beer and we didn't
actually get to the park. You're saying you didn't tell me,
But some of the time maybe you just consumed too
much beer and you just forgot. For introverts, that's a
unique form of frustration. And here's why. Okay, talking is
(32:53):
hard to begin with. It's difficult and discouraging. If there's
no retention. It's even worse when we get told we
didn't say anything because we know he said something, because
we know it was hard for us, or we know, yeah,
(33:14):
we didn't say anything. We tried real hard, but we
got interrupted six times and never got it out. If
you do that, you didn't tell me, You need to
speak up more. An introvert's probably gonna tell you even
fewer things because why bother it's gonna land with you
(33:35):
didn't tell me anyway, you know. And this probably gives
some context to the number four way, the fourth fourth
to the top way that extroverts drive introverts utterly crazy.
It's the advice just be yourself or just put yourself
(33:57):
out there. Yeah. No, when we're introvertedself, we're told that
it's going to ruin our chances of success in life
because we're the bad introvertself instead of the good extrovertself.
So you know that, just be yourself, Just put yourself
out there. Take that advice and do kindly shove it
(34:19):
up your social butterfly backside. If we were ourselves, we'd
stay quietly in a corner and read a book, or
we'd stay home quietly and read a book, or go
for a walk in a quiet forest, possibly with a book.
We wouldn't be at bloody speed dating. Don't tell someone
who is already out of their comfort zone to just
(34:42):
be themselves. They are already in a state of feeling
forced to not be themselves. Similarly, just put yourself out
there is not useful advice to an introvert. You might
as well tell a fish to fly. Even so called
fly banfish don't actually fly. They just leap out of
(35:04):
the water and glide through the air temporarily to escape predators.
That's actually a pretty decent metaphor for introvert socialization and crowds.
We do it, but we have to. But the entire
experience isn't exercising the predator check out of the water
fly free splash right. Again, it's not that we don't
(35:26):
like people, we just don't like too many people at once.
The problem with putting ourselves out there is that, you know,
it's the first thing I set off the top. It
usually comes with numerous boundary violations. So it's really hard
(35:46):
to just go, ohh, just just put yourself out there,
like it's so easy, you know. Instead of just put
yourself out there, just be yourself. Offer to go out
with the introvert to help them navigate all the additional
social choices, because I'm gonna let you in on a
thing about introvert socialization. Often the hardest part of going
(36:10):
somewhere is literally going there. It's leaving your house and
going into a new space. Once you're in, like once
you're past the front door, it sometimes gets easier because
showing up is the part where you're going, Okay, this
is the thing I can control. After I'm in there,
(36:31):
it's going to be out of my control and there
will be boundary violations. So once you're in and you're
already having your boundaries violated, well, you're just sort of
rolling with it right, rolling in the deep. Yeah. Ah,
that's a hard truth. It's kind of wow. Gonna sit
with that. Now, let's go to the break. We got
(36:52):
three more after our final break, so let's come back
and rip that band aid off. Questions, comments, concerns. Leanna
Attnot Therapy showed up dot com. Not Therapyshow dot com
at not Therapy show on socials, or you can go
to red Leanna k on coffee uh and kick me
a few bucks there if you want to directly support
(37:14):
this show. When we come back more three more things
the drive introverts crazy about dealing with extroverts. Some extroverts,
others are lovely. When we come back on It's not Therapy.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
No Radio, no Problem. Stream is live on SAGA ninety
six am dot C.
Speaker 2 (37:38):
The following program is a peer to peer advice show
and does not diagnose mental health conditions. If you're seeking
social services, please call or text two to one one
or go to two one one dot CA. We're back
in this therapy. I'm still Leanna Cursor, I'm still not
a therapist. We're still talking about ten things that drive
(37:58):
introverts bad crazy about dealing with some underline. Some extroverts,
and we've done seven so far. They are extroverts ten.
Number ten to violate our boundaries, and it's not for
our own good. Number nine Extroverts accuse us of being rude,
to blunt, annoying, or confusing when we do speak. Number
(38:21):
eight introvert. Extroverts tend to interrupt us introverts extra intro
extra int okay. Number seven Extroverts over explain, especially telling
us how they felt, containing no actual feeling words. Number
six Extroverts can be a real jerk when US introverts
(38:43):
get overwhelmed. Number five extroverts say you didn't tell me,
I didn't know when either, Yeah, you did tell them,
they just weren't paying attention because they were too busy talking,
or US introverts couldn't get a word in edgewise. We tried.
And Number four the xtrat platitudes of just put yourself
out there and be yourself now. Number three this might
(39:08):
take a little unpacking, but this happens more often than
you might think. Number three is extroverts referring to us
introverts as anti social or sociopathic, and this might be
shocking to you. More empathic extroverts out there, that anyone
would do this, I assure you they do. It's partially
(39:31):
because of that. He was quiet, he kept to himself,
you know, mass shooter stereotype. And that's exactly why it's
not at all cool. Right. It's up there with like
video games and like violent movies. So many people watch
that stuff, play that stuff. Lots of people are quiet.
(39:53):
Quiet is not a predictor of you know, psychopathic desocial behavior.
It's just not. There's too many quiet people out there
and too few people who do like violent things. Right.
You might think it's funny to make this connection because
of the way media makes psychopathy seem sexy, But for
(40:16):
an introvert who's already sensitive about the social stigma against introversion,
it's just perpetuating the idea that introversion is a mental
illness instead of just a less common form of a
normal state of being, a perfectly healthy state of being. Right,
number two is connected to that number two. I mentioned
(40:39):
this way off the top of the boundary violations, but
it needed its own swat. Extroverts, please stop giving us
unsolicited air quotes. Help, right, don't set us up with
your friends unless we ask don't spring a social gathering
on us. Don't just stop by without calling first because
(41:00):
you think we need a night out. Right, stop forcing
us to suddenly socialize. You're not some manic pixie dream girl.
In an early two thousand Sundance Film Festival movie, Introverts
isn't a disease to be cured, Like I said, it's
a valid personality type. We want to socialize. We do.
(41:25):
It just takes more out of us. The more we're
forced to do it, the less we choose to us.
Staying at home doesn't mean we're necessarily depressed the way
you would be. In fact, forcing us to socialize too
much might actually lead to us becoming depressed because our
boundaries are not being respected. It's only help if it's
(41:52):
actually helpful. No matter how well meaning you are, please ask,
please care, whether introverts actually want this stuff. If your
introverted friends says, hey, I need help getting dragged out,
please just I make kick and scream, But remind me
(42:13):
I said this. That's one thing. But if you just
decide you're going to fix your friend, please don't. It's
not fixing anything. And this is where we come to
our number one. Our number one thing that extroverts due
to introverts that drive us introverts bad crazy, let's recap
before we do it. Okay, so number ten violating our
(42:36):
boundaries it's not for our own good. Number nine accusing
us of being rude, to blunt, annoying, or confusing when
we do finally open our mouths. Number eight interrupting, number
seven over explaining. Number six being a jerk about us
getting overwhelmed. Number five saying you didn't tell me I
didn't know. Number four of the platitudes of just put
(42:57):
yourself out there, be yourself. Number three referring to us
as anti social or a sociopath. Number two is unsolicited help,
and number one extroverts ghost us influence introverts because they're
tired of as being a buzzkill or never wanting to
(43:18):
do anything. And strangely, some extroverts they love to talk
unless it's actually about feelings, not the fake I feel
that you didn't do what I wanted. Right now, I
feel blank, happy, said angry, pick your inside out character. Right.
(43:40):
Instead of having the potentially difficult conversation with your introvert
friend about their comfort or discomfort with socialization, extroverts just
ditch us when they find someone more fun. Right, and
I know a lot oft I have a lot of clients,
(44:02):
introverted clients who live in fear of exactly this kind
of abandonment. Now, don't get me wrong, extroverts, you have
the right to hang out with or not hang out
with anyone you want. But because introverts have fewer friends,
this sucks really hard. You know, and the extrovert may
(44:22):
think it's avoiding confrontation, which may have good intent. But ghosting,
we know, has a lot of negative psychological impacts, especially
when it happens in cycles, so you know, it can
contribute to anxiety, depression, and you know the person being
(44:43):
ghosted questioning reality. So okay, if someone straight up abusive
and tends to blow up when you try to have
a conversation with them, fair, that's an understandable reason to ghost, right.
The point is you tried to have the conversation. If
you're just ditching someone, expect that to hurt, especially with
(45:08):
someone who is introverted, who has fewer friends. But the
relationships tend to be closer, and introverts are you know,
tend to be more attached to their individual friends. So
if you've thrown the word friend around with an introvert
(45:29):
and then you just suddenly drop them without a word.
That is gonna hurt them. So don't throw the word
friend around so liberally to begin with. But also the
minute you do consider someone your friend a friend deserves
trying to have the conversation at least try about. Look,
(45:55):
you don't seem to enjoy going to these parties. You
seem to not be having a good time. Is there
something we can do differently? Or should I just stop
inviting you? If the person says, yeah, just stop inviting
me to the parties, it's not ghosting, right, it's not.
But just ghosting can make the introverted person feel like
(46:17):
a failure. Is that your responsibility? No, absolutely, it's not.
But introverts are people just like extroverts are, even though
we're treated as weird and creepy. Right, Yeah, the dreaded
creepy word. That's another one. But I think that that
fits in a way into number three. Yeah, anti social
(46:39):
or sociopathic. Anyway, we've only got a minute to go
in the show. Ish, So questions, comments, concern suggestions for
a topic, another topic of a top ten list or
something otherwise Leanna at not Therapy Show, Not Therapyshow dot
com is the website. If you forget how to spell
my name, it's Lia and is a Nancy a at
(47:01):
not Therapyshow dot com or at not Therapy on socials.
I hope you enjoyed this program. And we're feeling a
little bit beat up extroverts because somebody just talked for
you know, an hour straight with commercial breaks, or forty
eight minutes on the web, and you're feeling a bit
overloaded and overwhelmed. While that was a lot to process,
(47:25):
Welcome to the world of being an introvert around extroverts.
This has been an empathy exercise. I'm being snarky this episode.
I think I'm working some stuff out. It has definitely
been that first gasp of summer. Oh my god, so
many people. That mall was so very crowded. What would
(47:47):
a mall for inftroverts look like? All? Right, online shopping?
I love you online shopping anyway, Thanks for listening this week.
I don't know why it's so difficult for society to
sort of get it's collective head around the idea that
some people need this stuff and other people need that stuff,
(48:08):
and the fact that we're different is good. Diversity of viewpoint. Yeah,
so good. Anyway, that's my time. Hope you enjoyed the show. Introverts,
I know you feel loved. Extroverts, don't worry. Don't worry.
I still love you. We're all good. Remember you're crazy
and my crazy is only a problem if it's hurting us.
(48:30):
See you next time.
Speaker 1 (48:33):
Stream us live at SAGA nine am dot CA.
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