June 1, 2024 • 58 mins
On this week’s episode of Live from Hollywood…It’s Paranormal Tonight! host Dan Harary will interview the iconic British UFO Researcher Nick Pope. For 21 years, Nick worked for the UK Ministry of Defence, investigating UFOs and other mysteries officially for the British Government. His work led the media calling him the real-life Fox Mulder. Because of his work on these real-life X-Files, Nick has worked as a consultant or spokesperson on numerous UFO and alien-themed movies, TV series, and video games. He is a regular contributor to various TV news shows and documentaries, including Ancient Aliens, The Basement Office and After Contact, the latter of which he created and hosts. He also moderates Ancient Aliens Live – a live, in-person touring event based on the successful TV series. Nick, who has become a personal friend to Dan Harary, is also a member of the Board of Directors of the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance, which Harary Founded in 2023.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:21):
From Hollywood. It's very normal tennights. I'm Mark Summers and now here's
your host, Jan Harari. Wow, we had Mark Summers introduce me twice.
That's probably never happened in the historyof broadcasting. I'm Dad Hurrari.
Welcome to Paranormal Tonight, and Iappreciate that you came here. I had
(00:41):
Laaryen Jiatis last week. I wasgoing to introduce I was going to interview
last week Paul Heinik, but Ihad no voice. So I will interview
Paul Heinik again in the very nearfuture. In the next couple of weeks.
I have quite a few very interestingguests coming up, so please stick
with me. And this is anew show and it's a new experience for
me, and I really appreciate everyonewho's tuning in. I have a special
(01:03):
shout out to some friends of minethis week, Serena DC and Michael Mazzola,
some very notable documentary filmmakers, produceda very interesting live press conference presentation
on Tuesday here in la and theypresented some very old Peruvian bodies that have
(01:25):
been scientifically proven to be a missingrace of humanoid beings. They're a thousand
years old and I was involved withthat press conference. So Serena and Michael,
if you're listening, I think youdid a great job and it was
really fun to work with you onthat project. Also, I just discovered
a really wonderful TV show. Youprobably all know about it. I just
(01:46):
discovered it the other day, ResidentAlien. It's my new favorite TV show
on Netflix. It's very, veryfunny, and if you haven't seen it
yet, check it out. I'mgoing to try to get the star and
the creator of that show on myshow here at this podcast, very very
soon, just quickly. I'm alongtime Hollywood publicist. I'm the author of
two books, Flirting with Fame myHollywood book and after they came my UFO
(02:10):
sci fi book. And I'm broadcastingfor Beautiful Downtown Beverly Hills. This is
my office in Beverly Hills. Sothere we go. Okay, we have
a very very special guest tonight,and I apologize for my screw ups at
the top of the show. Fortwenty one years, Nick Pope worked for
(02:31):
the UK Ministry of Defense investigating UFOsand other mysteries officially for the brought British
government, leading the media to callhim the Real Life Fox Mulder. One
of his postings was to a divisionwhere his duties included researching and investigating the
UFO phenomenon to assess the defense,national security, and safety of flight implications.
(02:58):
Because of his work on these reallife X files, Nick has worked
as a consultant or spokesperson on numerousUFO and alien themed movies, TV series,
and video games. Nick is aregular contributor to various TV news shows
and documentaries, including of Course,We All Know and Love Dick from Ancient
Aliens. He's also on The BasementOffice and After Contact, the latter of
(03:23):
which he created and hosts. Healso moderates Ancient Aliens Live, which is
a live touring event based on thesuccessful TV series. Nick is also a
member of the Board of Directors ofthe Hollywood Disclosure Alliance, which was founded
by myself and by Stephen Bassett lastyear twenty twenty three, and an honor
(03:46):
for me to have Nick on theboard of directors for the HDA. A
few months before my book After TheyCame was published, Nick was kind enough
to give me a very lovely bookreview quote, which I'd like to read
right now because it meant it meantthe world to me. Dan Harari's book
After They Came is an entertaining andupbeat work of sci fi that cleverly incorporates
(04:10):
key parts of the UFO phenomenon's loreand backstory. It's a delightful tale of
wonder and hope. And I putthat little piece, a delightful tale of
wonder and hope on the cover ofmy book After They Came. And again,
I can't thank him enough anyway,Race, Let's bring in a very
everyone's favorite brit mister Nick Pope.Let's bring him on and hello theah Hey
(04:35):
there, good evening everyone, Goodevening, Nick, Thank you very very
much for doing this. I'm sorryI was Sopha Hoods at the start of
the start of the show. Nono apology necessary. When you when you
were psich. You're sick. There'snothing you can do about it. I've
really yeah, I just got bettera couple of days ago. So first
of all, how are you doingin New York and how are you and
(04:56):
your wife doing there? And howlong I think you're moving back to the
Midwest later this year? Is thatright? That's correct? Yes, Elizabeth
and I have been in New YorkCity since August last year. We're here
because she's actually got a visiting fellowshipwith a think tank called Heterodox Academy,
(05:17):
and it's a one year fellowship.So yeah, we're over six months into
that. We're loving life in NewYork City. We're right in the heart
of Manhattan on Seventh, pretty closeto Times Square and pretty close to Macy's.
So it's the city that Nevis leaps. And yeah, but at the
(05:43):
end of August we go back toour main home, which is Tucson,
Arizona, which we love. Ofcourse, that's right. Were you at
Times Square for New Year's Eve?We went through it, but we actually
went to a seventies and eighties retroclub to do some dancing. Elizabeth's sister
(06:04):
was up with us as well.And I think it's just called the Retro
Club. Actually it's somewhere up Ithink it's off Madison and I don't know,
forty seventh something like that. That'sgreat, that's great. Many of
us. I have my little ShebilI got to read here. Many of
us who are interested in uthology.Of course, you know about your work
at the Ministry of Defense, yourappearances on ancient aliens and many other shows
(06:27):
and documentaries, and you as thehost of Ancient Aliens Live. If you
don't mind, I'd like to firstask you a little bit about you personally.
You know, where are you from, what kinds of hobbies and interests
did you have as a child anda teen young adult and basically what were
you doing Nick in your life beforeyou joined the Ministry of Defense. Well,
(06:48):
I was brought up in the UKand we were kind of, you
know, regular family. We likedoutdoor walks things like that. The countryside
was actually although I moved to Londonwhen I was about fourteen or fifteen because
(07:10):
of my father's work, we actuallyfor my early years grew up in a
fairly small village in the County ofSurrey. So we did all the outdoor
things, you know, riding thebikes and playing the soccer on the local
fields and going for long walks thingslike that. Yeah, so just nothing
(07:33):
special, no, you know,people often say when did you get interested
in UFOs or science fiction? Reallythe answer is I didn't. I mean,
I really did not get into thiswhole subject of UFOs until I was
assigned that position as one of thepostings that I had in my twenty one
(07:58):
year career at the Ministry, butthe Ministry of Defense, and for those
that don't know, I should saythat I was a civilian employee there,
and that the Ministry of Defense isthe UK's equivalent of the Department of Defense
here in the US. And myfather was actually very senior in the Ministry
of Defense. He was an aeronauticalengineer and he was also a director of
(08:22):
the Royal Aeronautical Establishment at Farmborough wherethey have the famous air show, the
Farmber Air Show. Of course,so I was one of my other childhood
interests was aircraft. And then whenI was at school when you had to
join the cadets when you were aboutfourteen or something and you could either join
(08:43):
the Army or the Air Force.Well, I joined the Air Force Cadets,
of course, because that would giveme the opportunity to fly. And
literally age fourteen or fifteen, Ifound myself learning the theory of flight,
studying all the things that you haveto study, and then actually getting some
flights in on the dual control aircraftthat the Royal Aircraft had Royal Air Force
(09:09):
had as their basic trainer, andthey were these little aircraft were called chipmunks.
They flew you up to three thousandfeet and bear in mind, like
I said, I was fourteen yearsyears old. They fly you up to
about three thousand feet or maybe fifteenhundred, can't remember which, and it's
dual control. And then they sayyou have control, and you say I
(09:31):
have control, sir, and you'reflying. Wow. That was great,
great fun. But obviously my fatherbeing in the Ministry of Defense, it
was almost like the family firm.We joked. So I followed him into
that and never never, once regrettedit. What did your father do there?
(09:52):
Well, he had, like me, you get moved around, so
you never do one thing. Sohe was an aeronautical engineer, but his
specialisms were things like structures, materials, aerodynamics. They have one of the
world's largest wind tunnels at Farmborough.But also he was involved in how should
(10:18):
I put it, special projects,special weapons, that sort of thing.
He served as Assistant Chief Scientific AdvisorSpecial Projects, then Deputy Chief Scientific Advisor,
which, because the Chief Scientific Advisoris always an outside posting, is
basically the senior government scientist in theMinistry of Defense. So he also was
(10:45):
awarded. He did a lot ofinternational collaborative work with NATO and particularly with
the United States, And in fact, one of the awards that he was
given was the US Secretary of DefenseMedal for Outstanding Public Service, and that
was to do with some I thinkit was counter proliferation on maybe the chemical
(11:07):
and biological side. Did your fatherget help you get your job at the
MOD No, not at all.That would be totally improper. He obviously
through talking about his work, orthose aspects of his work that he was
able to discuss. I mean,even within the family, you don't,
(11:31):
you know, discuss classified work.So he'd said enough that I thought,
you know, I want to workfor my country, as opposed to say,
work for a corporation where I'm justputting putting dollars in somebody's wallet,
even though typically government jobs aren't aswell paid. But the idea that you'd
(11:56):
be working for your country, thatyou'd be doing fascinating things that you know,
you'd go home and you'd see onthe evening news. And of course,
as the old saying, go somethings that you will never see on
the evening news because they're so sensitive. That's interesting. I don't know that
you're aware of this, my father. You might know this. My father
(12:16):
was an electronics engineer and a physicistfor the US Army at Fort Mammoth,
New Jersey for forty five years.Ah right, and he did top secret
work. He never discussed his workever. And along the way and then
after he died, I discovered myfather helped to invent and design military drones
(12:39):
and all kinds of different missiles andradar systems. And he used to go
to White Sand's missile testing range quiteoften. He gave talks at the Pentagon.
And it's kind of funny, youknow, Nick. After my dad
passed away in twenty seventeen, Icalled my mother and I said, you
know, did Dad ever talk aboutaliens or UFOs at all? And she
(13:01):
said, in the early nineteen fiftiesat Fort Mammoth Army Base, they took
him into the vault. My fatherdeep into the vaults and they showed him
something top secret. And my mothersaid, he came home. This is
probably fifty two fifty three. Hecame home. She said he was pale
and nervous and shaking, and shesaid, honey, what's wrong. My
(13:22):
father said I saw something today.It's above top secret. I can never
tell you as long as I live, and my dad never told anyone.
So in my theory, Nick isthat perhaps it was a piece of a
saucer or some technology. I don'tthink it was a body, But my
dad was a genius engineer, andI think he may have seen some technology,
(13:43):
and I think perhaps he might havebeen involved in the reverse engineering process
for some of the technology, becauseI know my father was helping to design
military drones that I have proof of, right, So it's kind of you
know, you and I and thenPaul Heinek's father with j Helen Heinech,
so you know, and Yumi andPaul Heinech, we all have something in
common, you know. Yeah,the family business sort of secrets. Absolutely.
(14:09):
So in your earliest days at MOD, you know, when you first
started your job there, what didthey tell you your job was and at
what at what point did you realize, oh my god, I'm on the
inside track of UFOs and these settingsand these incredible phenomena. Well, I
had three different postings before I wasassigned to that particular department, so I
(14:35):
had done completely unrelated things for thefirst part of my career. But then
I during the First Golf War,the Persian Gulf War. I was seconded
into the Joint Operations Center and workedfor a particular manager there and I was
due for a move and he hada vacancy coming up, and he said,
(14:58):
well, why don't we just doan inter or swap because he was
in the same section but a differentpart of it. And I said,
fine, let's do that. AndI said, what's the job and he
said, UFOs. So the restis history, and yeah, I started
off. Obviously, one of thefirst things you do, you have a
week where you shadow your predecessor,so you just sit alongside your predecessor and
(15:24):
you know he's doing the job,and then you gradually take over and by
the end of the week you're doingthe job. So then one of the
first things that you have to dois obviously read the entire back archive of
files so that you really read yourselfinto absolutely everything that you have on this.
(15:46):
But then there's no substitute for actuallydoing the investigations as the cases come
through, and we had two orthree hundred each year, so you have
to, you know, just getstuck in to that. And obviously some
of them are pretty mundane, andmost of them, of course turned out
to be misidentifications of fairly ordinary objectsand phenomena, but some don't. And
(16:15):
yeah, that's fascinating. But also, of course it's not just the investigations.
It's one of those odd jobs wherethere are really, you know,
very few people who who have thatdeep specialist knowledge on it. So very
(16:36):
quickly I found myself being the subjectmatter expert on that, and the subject
matter expert I was a junior.I was in the junior managerial grade at
the time called executive officer, andthere were people much more senior than me
who never, for example, gotto brief defense ministers on this or write
(17:02):
defensive lines for the public affairs peopleto put out to the media. But
as the subject matter expert, ifthis question was, if this issue was
raised in Parliament, I was theone that had to draft the speech for
the sect there for whoever it wasto stand up in Parliament and deliver.
(17:23):
So it really you know, youwere thrown in at the dep end for
sure, Well did you go intothat job? Nick? As similar to
j Allen Heinech, he was askeptic for some time and then along the
way he was like, wow thatsome of these things are literally inexplicable.
And he slowly and surely became abeliever. Would you equate yourself along those
(17:45):
lines, Yes, I think so, though I don't even now character characterize
myself as a true believer. Itried to always take a data lad approach
and an ope and minded mindset withthis. So so I go where the
(18:07):
data take me. And if theyif the data say well, look this
is just this is just fire,lanterns or drones, that's that's fine,
case closed. But if it's somethingmore interesting, absolutely focus on that.
You're open to the possibility of thepossibility of an extraterrestrial explanation, Oh for
(18:29):
sure. Yes. And despite theskeptical report from the Pentagon last week,
I think that behind the facade ofhaving to say that we know and I've
met some of them, that thereare people in government, in the military,
in the intelligence community who who aresimilarly minded that they this the extraterrestrial
(18:56):
hypothesis is not off the table,despite despite what was put out last week.
Right, absolutely, what's your feelingabout David Grush, Well, I
haven't met him, but I knowa number of people who do know him,
and I mean it's important for peopleto know, you know, he
when when, for example, peoplehere, some of the people say,
(19:21):
well, he's never seen anything himself, and he's just talked to a load
of people, and people people usethat phrase he's talked to a bunch of
people, as if it's just sortof I don't know, he's gone down
to his local bar or something andstarted chatting about it. But when what
they don't seem to realize, orwhat they do realize but but don't say,
(19:41):
is that he went to talk toa load of people because he was
tasked to do that whilst part ofthe intelligence community cohort making up the the
UAP task He was part of theUAP Task Force when Jay Stratton was the
(20:04):
director, and he was representative ofactually two different agencies, National Reconnaissance Office
and National Geospatial Intelligence. So thepeople that he went to talk to,
he went to talk to them becausehe was tasked to do that as part
(20:29):
of his formal position on the UAPTask Force. So the forty or so
people that he spoke to were themselvespeople inside the system. Right, It's
not like he was talking to hisbarber and his dad, right, right,
I understand we have to take abreak in a few minutes, but
(20:49):
could you quickly give us maybe someof the highlight UFO UAP cases while you
were at mod unusual, bizarre,very strange, and would Randalsham Forest be
among that crowd. Yes, RandalshamForest December nineteen eighty, so before my
time, but I did a coldcase review of the whole incident. That
(21:12):
was probably the best case in ourfiles, particularly because we had trace evidence.
This thing was tracked on radar,left burn and scorch marks on the
ground and on the trees, andleft radioactivity levels that were significantly higher than
the average background and that's not disputed. That's in the declassified Ministure defense file
(21:34):
from the government scientists. Then wehad a case called the Calvin Incident,
very famous Scottish case involving a diamondshaped UFO photograph. I talked about that
on Ancient Aliens last week actually inthe Mysteries of Scotland episode. And a
(21:55):
case from nineteen ninety three called theCosford incident, which was right in the
middle of my hosting. There again, amazing case with a huge triangular shaped
craft seen over a period of aboutsix hours over different parts of the UK.
That's fabulous when people have said overthe years. You know, Randall
shim was that lighthouse that the lightfrom that light, that beacon that was
(22:18):
going around and round. It's soobviously not the case, and so many
people have fell for that. Didyou was that part of your case file?
With the lighthouse? We found ithelpful. I mean, look,
I'll be honest with you. Partof my job, of course, was
to downplay the extent of our interestin this and our involvement, and we
(22:38):
found the lighthouse theory a sort ofuseful thing to just throw out to kind
of get people to back off andshut up. Frankly, yeah, yeah,
yeah, Okay, let's take alittle break and pay some bills,
run some commercials. I think it'sabout a minute and a half, two
minutes, and we'll be back withNick Pop right after these messages. Unlock
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(27:22):
welcome back to Part two of ParanormalTonight. I'm Dan Harrari. We're a
very very special guest star tonight isNick Pope. Let's bring Nick back in.
Please hello again. Thank you forbearing with us for that little commercial
break. Nick, You've been calledthe Real Life Fox Molder and X Files
was probably one of my all timefavorite TV shows. What did you think
(27:45):
about that show? And did youever meet David Duchovny, Jillian Anderson or
Chris Carter. I loved the show, and I met all three of them.
In fact, I met them becauseI had some in with the show.
I think you mentioned at the topof the hour in my bio the
(28:10):
fact that I had done some consultancyand spokesperson work on various movies, TV
shows, and video games. Well, I got involved, actually in some
spokesperson work for the second X Filesmovie and for one of the DVD box
set compilations of Chris Carter's favorite episodes. He picked one from each season something
(28:37):
like that, and so I dida whole bunch of interviews to talk about
that, talk about my love ofthe show, and to talk about how
it tied in with you know,real life government work on UFOs and the
unexplained. So one of the thingsthat I then got to do was go
to the London premiere of the movie, where I met all three of them.
(29:02):
And of course, you know whenI when I said, when I
met Chris Carter for the first time, you know, it was like,
oh, yeah, I had thejob where I investigated UFOs for the British
government and he said, oh yes, he said, I know all about
that, and of course he had, as we later find found out,
(29:22):
he had been researching this subject ingreat depth for some time, sort of
sitting at the back of UFO meetingsthat sort of thing. But he knew
about the British government's UFO program,of course, and then that was one
of the reasons why I got askedto get involved in this spokesperson role.
That's great. Please tell me youhave a photo of you and David and
(29:44):
Jillian and Chris together somewhere or theother. Well, there's definitely one of
me and me and David. Iwould love to see that sometimes. For
sure, I'm pretty sure that Jillianwas quite heavily pregnant at the time,
so I think she had to kindof do a quick hello goodbye. But
yeah, we got to hang outwith David for quite some time. That's
(30:07):
great. Well they wrote Jillian's pregnancyinto some of the episodes. Sure,
yeah, yeah. Who do youremember when you first heard that you were
the real life Fox Mother. Doyou know where that came from? You
know, I can't quite place it, but I think it was some journalist
(30:30):
who who was writing up my storyas a sort of profile piece, and
then was just struck by the parallelAnd at first I think, I mean,
all this now is some time ago. But at first I think I
was a little irritated because I waslike, hey, this was a government
job, you know, not asci fi series. But then I realized,
(30:53):
look, you can't be too preciousabout this. And I of course
came to love the X Files,and then I thought, hey, you
know own it? Why not?You know, if they're going to call
you that own it, that's terrific. I think that's great. I loved
I would love to see that photoone day. I really grip you find
(31:14):
it. Of course, we allknow I love you from ancient Aliens.
A quick story about myself. Ifirst got interested in upology Nick around two
thousand and seven, and I hadjust heard about Moufon for the first time
two thousand and seven. I didn'tknow what Mufon was, so I joined
the local La Moufon chapter and Igot very lucky from a very very first
(31:34):
meeting ever in my entire life.At MoveOn Georgia Otsuklos was to speak Georgia
and he did like ninety minutes aboutancient alien theory. And nick I knew
none of this. You know,my parents, my rabbi and my teachers
from from when I was a kid. Well, I didn't know any of
these things, you know, thepetroglyphs and the and the cave drawings and
(31:56):
the Stonehenge and the crop circles,and the pyramids and the pyramids in Mexico,
and it just Betty and Barney Hill, It just Travis Wong. Nick
I was like the ninety minute liketears tears, And at the end I
went up to him, I said, Georgio, that was the most incredible
thing I've ever seen. I shookhis head. I think I hugged.
(32:19):
I said, you just changed myentire view of the world and it goes
cool. Thanks man, And I'vemet him many many times since then.
How did you first meet Georgio andhow did you become part of the Ancient
Aliens TV show? Well, Ihad been on some episodes of Ancient Aliens
over the years, but in aroundand then of course that was starting off
(32:45):
when I lived back in the UK. But then I moved over to the
US in January of twenty twelve,and in about twenty fifteen two thy sixteen,
the late Kevin Burns, the creativegenius behind well not just Ancient Aliens,
but so much else. Basically,the way I heard it was he
(33:09):
turned to his assistant and said,we need to you know, we need
Nick in the show more. Andthen so from that time onwards, I
found myself doing more and more episodes, and then we started we had a
thing called Alien Kahn, which waslike kind of based on Comic Con and
and all these big conventions, butbut was a mix of Ancient Aliens but
(33:32):
also some sci fi as well.Some of the early ones we we had
some of the actors from from StarTrek, in from from Doctor Who,
Very from Lost in Space for youknow, various various different people. But
and so of course I had metGeorgio occasionally, you know, doing doing
(33:53):
the episode of Ancient Aliens, butbut there it was kind of I'd go
in for an episode just as hewas coming out from his so it was
again a quick hallo goodbye. Thengot to see each other a bit more
at Alien Con those events and siton some panels together, including the so
(34:15):
called super panel, which Kevin Burnsloved to moderate on the Saturday night.
But then it was Ancient Aliens Livebecame a thing, and I think originally
the plan was to have Georgiosukulass,David Childress, and William Henry, but
then at some point Travis Taylor andmyself were brought in, and I was
(34:43):
brought in actually as moderator. Now, of course you cannot do a live
touring show and not get much closerto the people than you've ever got,
say, when you're filming together,where if it's a movie, you've got
different scenes, if it's a documentary, you're you have different interview slots.
(35:05):
But Ancient Aliens Live we've done fortyshows. We've got another I think twenty
six on the website. For springand summer. We tend to do runs
of four shows. It's a ninetyminute live show. We tour all around
the United States, and of courseyou really bond with the rest of the
(35:29):
team doing that and it's great fun. That's very cool. What's it like
for you? I don't imagine thatwhen you joined the mod that one day
in the future you would be aUFO rock star and you'd have fans leneing
up to meet you and shake yourhand and take your photo with you.
(35:50):
What is that like for you,Nick personally? Is it fulfilling? Is
it a little bit embarrassing? What'sthat like? It's very odd. I
mean, you're right though with yourquestion. When I joined them in a
defense, of course, particularly whenyou do jobs that involve classified work,
you're living your life in the shadows, and the whole point is that you
(36:10):
stay under the radar. And andthen so to to have the narrative flip
like this and to be in thepublic eye is is it's quite strange.
But but you know, I loveit. I love I get that Ancient
Aliens has has the most amazing fans, and not just fans but super fans
(36:37):
who will watch every episode, whowho will come to the live shows,
who will who will spot the memesand the catch phrases, and and they'll
really engage with that, and sowhen I when I meet people who love
the show, I always try andyou know, yeah, stop for photo
(37:00):
sign things, have a chat,you know where as long as I'm not
rushing for a plane or something,I don't want to miss a flight.
But but yeah, people stop mein the street all the time now and
it does take some getting used to, but yeah, people people are great
with it, and yeah, I'mI'm happy to to, like I say,
(37:24):
post, post for photos and havea little chat about things. That's
so cool. Are your parents stillalive? No, they're not. No.
Did they live to see that theirson became a world famous UFO rock
star? No, they didn't.I'm not sure. You imagine your father's
reaction. I'm not sure it wouldhave been quite his thing. Where did
(37:50):
I go wrong? Have you everbeen speaking of Travis? I know Travis
Taylor is a friend of yours.Have you ever been to Skinwalker Ranch?
I've not. We've We've talked aboutarranging it, but obviously it's it's that
that will will be up to BrandonFugel and you know, obviously they're filming
(38:13):
the TV series there. I'd loveto go, so maybe the opportunity will
arise. But of course Travis's isbusy doing doing that and doing a whole
bunch of other things as well.But Travis is Travis is great, and
Travis is one of the He's oneof the other people of course who who
has a kind of government background himself. So it's we all get on on
(38:37):
the show. But inevitably, whenyou when you have someone like Travis who's
who's also done government work, youspeak the same language. You know.
It's like it's like when people inany field get together. It's like when
cops get together, or ex militaryget together, or publicists get together.
(38:59):
Right know, you've you've got yourown. Boy, did I wrote a
hell of a press release? Literally, as yeah, you think you did
a good press release? You shouldhave seen my Yeah, you're right.
So but yeah, you have thatlanguage. So Travis and I, Travis
and I, you know, sometimeson the show, we've stayed up after
the show, have a celebratory drinkor two and swap stories about some of
(39:20):
the crazy things that go on ingovernment. Well, my daughter Angelie,
she's on the chat here over theside there, but she and we watched
the Skinwalker Show religiously and we've We'vegreatly enjoyed it, and I'd love to
meet Travis at some point. Heseems like a very cool guy. He's
a fascinating guy, super smart ofcourse, sure, and yeah he's doing
(39:44):
some amazing work there, as asare the rest of the team. Some
really bizarre things going on by allaccounts. Absolutely. Now here's a very
big question, Nick, I don'tI'm sure you've been asked this, but
I don't know the answer. Haveyou personally ever seen a UFO? Sadly,
no, it's a little bit unfair. I think I'm d a sighting.
(40:07):
Surely you would think, having investigatedhundreds, if not thousands of other
people's sightings, but no, neverseen a thing myself. So bring it
on. I mean, come on, when I go back to particularly when
I go back to Tucson with theclear skies and the beautiful viewing conditions there,
that's the place for it. That'sgreat, much as I'd love to
(40:30):
have a New York City sighting likeJohn Lennon did and Muhammad Ali. I
just was going to say that John, you know, I only heard about
you. I'm a huge Beatles fan, and John in particular, I just
recently heard about the John Lennon UFOsiting that wasn't very very famous at the
time, but right, I thinkhe was with May Pang at the time
and they were on the roof terrace. My best friend in the world owns
(40:53):
a nightclub in New York called TheCutting Room, and his best friend in
the world is May Pang. SoI have to ask my friend Steve to
ask me Peg I will about theJohn Lennon study. Oh, sure,
I didn't know that. That's verycool. Something else I wanted to ask
you, since there are so manycrop circles in the UK, and I
think you and I spoke about thisa little bit recently, what's your personal
(41:15):
feeling about crop circles. You know, I'm going to be very unpopular here,
I'm sure, but I'm pretty skepticalabout those. I've seen people make
some pretty amazing ones, and youknow, until and unless I see and
I know people talk about changes atthe cellular level, but until I see
(41:37):
that written up in a peer reviewedpaper and published in science or Nature,
I'm kind of yeah, I'm notreally sold on that. To be honest.
That doesn't mean that they're not beautifuland amazing. And I've been in
some of them. I was oneof the first people, for example,
(42:00):
in the Julia set I believe,which was I'm trying to think maybe nineteen
ninety six, the one by Stonehenge, amazing formation in the shape of a
fractal, so a mathematical symbol andshape, and I was one of the
first people in that formation. Butyeah, I have yet to be persuaded.
(42:23):
Do you know I think her nameis Patty Greer the Crab Circle,
No Patty, Yeah, yeah,because she'll probably want to wring my neck
after that. But she'll want toring your neck, dick, because I
just saw a documentary she was in. She says, which was I'd never
heard before. There's some kind ofenergy that comes up from underneath the earth.
(42:44):
You know, everyone thinks it's ET'scoming down. She says. They
are these balls of energy up fromunder the ground. Hover once swirls this
way, the other swirls the opposite, and they sort of are, you
know, laser etching these things.And you felt pretty strongly you might want
to have a conversation with daddy career, right, Yeah, Well, I
(43:04):
know Patty quite well, so I'llhave to sit down and have this out
with her. That might be interesting, you know, dueling, Encroft,
circle point of views, you know, but you know, I have to
call it how I see it,not one of these people that's going to
go, oh yeah, that's absolutelytrue. That's absolutely true, completely believe
that. I mean, like Isaid at the outset, I'm very kind
(43:27):
of data led. I try tonot come into anything with preconceived ideas either
four or against. But I'm stillokay persuade me kind of guy. I
think that's a terrific way to be, you know, and I appreciate your
honesty. You could have said,oh, yeah, I've seen fifty sixty
UFOs. You're like the most famousperson on the planet who studies UFOs who
(43:49):
never saw a UFL. You know, you're right, it's not fair.
I've seen three. Oh I seenthree personally, so you definitely do.
Do at least one raisically that firstslide number one. Please, there you
go. So guy, first metyou here? That was at Alien Con
last year. Oh yeah, Pasadena, right, Asadena. This first time.
(44:12):
Now, you had been kind enoughto help me with my book quote
a few months before this, butthis is the first time you and I
met in person, and you signedmy book and I have a very prestigious
place in my living room. Soeveryone, oh, Nick Pope, you
know Nick Pope? Yeah, yeah, I know, Nick Pope. Yeah,
that was very cool. And therewe are behind the curtain literally and
(44:36):
I think if you remember why,it was like you were kind enough to
do this for me because you didn'twant the other people to see. And
it was a whole thing anyway.But that's a great picture. Well,
I think I was supposed to besigning uh posters and doing photos with people,
so I had to I had tosneak out the back and do it.
Yeah, this is like in theback out d don't tell anybody,
(45:00):
you know, Nick, and Iyeah, I don't tell anybody. So
that was on the Q two.But it's a lovely photo and I appreciate
it. Ras can we see thenext one? So Nick, you and
I recently had a very nice dinnerwith our friend Jeff Stein at Mussou and
Frank, the famous Mussou and Frankrestaurant in Hollywood. I represent them,
(45:20):
and I think we all had avery nice time that evening. That was
a few months ago. Yeah,amazing, what a storied restaurant that is.
And you said the nicest thing,which I told the owner. You
told me at the end, yousaid, Dan, I could check this
off my bucket list now, andthat was so cool that you said,
yeah, that was great. Atthe dinner, I think you told me
(45:42):
I was not mistaken if I wastwo martinis in, But you told me
a story about your workplace in theUK that it was haunted something in the
basement or yes, it was someparanormal stuff. What's your take on paranormal
ghost kind of stuff. Well,here's the story, and it's really interesting.
If you look at a picture ofMinistry of Defense main building, it's
(46:06):
it's a very modern looking kind ofmonolithic, kind of white stone, green
copper roof, stalin esque architecture.But it's built on the site of the
old Whitehall Palace. And so ifyou go from ground level down a couple
(46:28):
of levels, there's one point wheresuddenly you go from all these sort of
modern offices and computer rooms and allof that, and you find yourself You
almost think you've done a time slipor something. You are literally in a
medieval kind of setting, and youliterally are because it is the old Wines.
(46:53):
It's called the Henry, the eighthwine Cellar, but it dates back
before even Henry the Eighth, whichwas sixteenth century, dates back before that,
and it's reputed to be haunted.And I've not seen anything myself,
(47:14):
but the security guards who do thepatrolling, who most of hermer sort of
fairly tough, old retired army typesor police types. Security guards have said
that they've seen things down their shadowyfigures, walking through the walls, that
(47:37):
sort of thing. And one timethe Ministry of Defense in house magazine called
Focus ran a ghost story from somebodywho'd been on patrol, actually not in
main building, somewhere else, butfinished off the article by saying something like
your or The letter said, wewouldn't normally publish a letter like this,
(47:59):
but we thought it was so interestingthat we'd break precedent and do it.
Has anyone else seen anything? Andthey got the biggest post by you know,
that they'd ever received, so itwas amazing. But yeah, under
Ministry of Defense, main building isthe Henry the eighth wine Cellar supposed to
(48:20):
be haunted. People hold their leavingparties in there. So when my father
retired from the Ministry of Defense,he had his farewell drinks there and then
and later on I had mine.That's great, Race, can you take
down that photo now please? Therehe goes, that's great. I very
(48:43):
quickly in there. I don't thinkyou know this. I have a book
coming out in May called My ParanormalLife. And I've had ghosts, paltergeist
angelic voices telling me things in myears that came true. I've had light
bulbs go off over my head almostlythat became major businesses money that I mean
(49:07):
from starting from the age of five. I looked back. So I'll get
your copy next time. I seewhat it's called My Paranormal Life. It's
my whole history of the weirdness byUFOs, all that kind of stuff.
In February, you spoke here inLa at the Conscious Life Expo. I
was in your audience, and yougave a talk about disclosure, and you
were saying some things Nick that differpretty dramatically from that opinion of my friend
(49:32):
Steve Bassett. Steve Bassett, whohas become literally one of my best friends
in the world. He's like,you know, disclosure, you know they'll
be angels like oh, like angelsstill singing and dancing in cherubs, dancing
in the street, little kids,you know, and doing hula hoops and
everything is going to be ponies andrainbows. And you were like, uh
uh uh, I think disclosure.You know, let's be careful what we
(49:54):
wish for, because perhaps it mightnot be all of that. So tell
us a little bit about your disclosurePOV. Yes, I've never bought into
this it's all going to be rosyin the garden and all that, because
if that was the case, Idon't think there would be any difficulty with
(50:17):
any of this, and yet we'veseen that clearly is a difficulty. So
I think I think people should becareful what they wish for, because I
think it's to me. I can'thelp but think that this, like most
things in life, comes with adark side. And I mean just even
on the practical sense of it.Let's suppose that this is true, and
(50:42):
that we find that there's a spaceshipkicking around in the basement of the Pentagon
somewhere, and we busted out andall the technology gets kind of put into
the public domain. Well, almostcertainly. One of the few good assumptions
you can make about aliens is thattheir technology would be orders of magnitude above
(51:04):
and beyond anything we have sure andanything that you'd need for viable interstellar travel
in terms of propulsion system almost certainlyinvolves the generation of very large amounts of
energy, and anything that involves largeamounts of energy can be weaponized. So
you know, we might want tobe a little bit careful before we say,
(51:25):
oh, just put it all outin the public domain, because again
for the people that say, well, the American people have a right to
know. When you tell the Americanpeople, you also tell the leadership in
China, Russia, North Korea,Iran, you know, all the terror
groups like ISIS and Hamas. Soyou know, we should be careful with
(51:51):
all this. It's very interesting,you know, because I totally appreciated what
you said at your lecture and everytime to Steven Bassett, Dan, you
know, disclosures coming. It couldbe tomorrow, it could be tomorrow.
President Biden's going to go on TV. It's going to happen. It's gonna
be great, It's going to begreat. I'm like I actually said,
I said, Steve, have youspoken to Nick Pope recently about this topic?
(52:14):
You might want to, you know, maybe meet each other a little
bit halfway, But yeah, Ithink so. I mean, I've known
Steve for years and of course Ilike him. We get on and we
exchange a couple of emails today.But so but we agree to disagree on
this. I think that's fine.That's absolutely fine. Just a quick plug.
(52:36):
I'm the publicist for Contact in theDesert. Anyone who's watching out there,
please be sure to get your tickets. Nick Pope will be there and
Steve Bassett and Richard Dolan and allthe all the UFO rock stars will all
be speaking this year. Contact inthe Desert dot com a little plug for
them because they're my friends as well. I think I have time Nick for
(52:57):
one last question. You're a memberof the board of directors of my group
called the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance, whichSteve Bassett and I created last year.
I think we have about one hundredand fifty members now. A number of
people are based around the world.We're having an event this Sunday in LA
called the Making of Project Blue Bookwith Paul Heinek and the producers of that
(53:20):
show itself. And if you werein town, of course I would have
I would have dragged you kicking andscreaming two attend but next time you're in
LA, please let me know.What are your thoughts about how Hollywood historically,
you know, has portrayed aliens andets. Usually it's you know,
they come to kill us and eatus. But what do you think Hollywood's
role could be in the disclosure movement? And where do you see perhaps the
(53:45):
group like the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance,where we might make some progress in the
future. Well, I think it'sbeen a mixed bag with Hollywood, but
obviously things like Coast Encounters of theThird Kind and really thoughtful pieces of science
fiction like Contact and Arrival have Ithink been brilliant for this subject. What
(54:07):
I think the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance cando and is starting to do, is
draw together actors, directors, writers, agents, publicists, so that next
time, instead of Hollywood, youknow, the studio making a movie about
(54:28):
all of this, let's let thepeople that know about it shape that movie
from the very outset, rather thancoming in at the end and just doing
a little bit of publicity or something, Get us in at the ground level
and make a movie that reflects thereality of this. And also, I
think the really intriguing questions of whathappens next because it's the societal impact of
(54:53):
this that most interests me at themoment, not the sort of skeptic versus
believer dogfighter about what this is.Let's let's get over that and say,
well, if it happens, whatthen? And I'd like to see the
Hollywood Disclosure all Alliance engaging with workingwith a major studio to craft something that
(55:13):
will tell that story so that wecan all think about it before it happens,
and that way we'll be ready forit when it does happen. That's
wonderful, Nick, you should bethe publicist for Ada instead of me.
That was the greatest thing I everheard. I'm going to have to route
that little speech to everyone I knowon the earth. Nick, what's just
a little minute and a half.What's left for you this year? What
(55:36):
do you have coming up at thenew projects? I know you're still going
to be on tour and in thenext few months, is that right?
Yes, We've just wrapped the newseason of Ancient Aliens, so some new
episodes coming up. I'm speaking atthe Ozark Mountain UFO conference. Then,
of course, as you mentioned,Contact in the Desert, the Amazing tenth
Anniversary one and Ancient Aliens Live andthe website for that is Ancient Aliens Life
(56:01):
Tour dot com and people can seeif we're coming to your city or near.
That's wonderful. And last question,Nick, how can people reach you
our Instagram? Facebook? How wouldyou like to be contacted if anyone has
questions for you? My website isNick Pope dot net and I have contact
details on there and my ex formerlyknown as Twitter. It's the social media
(56:25):
platform I'm most active on. Iam at Nick Pope mood for Ministry of
Defense at Nick Pope MD. Whenyou said my ex, I thought,
oh, I didn't know Nick hadan ex wife. Really, Nick,
thank you very very much. Iso appreciate it. I really your friendship
with myself means the world to me, and I hope to see you soon
(56:46):
the next time you're in LA.If not, I'll see you at contact
for sure. Thanks. I appreciatethat you stayed up until the middle of
the night because you're in New Yorkand I know it's late for you to
go to sleep, and please tellElizabeth I said hello. Thank you very
very much. Thank you, Dan, thank you, and everyone. That's
it for tonight's show, Live fromHollywood, It's Paranormal Tonight. Next week,
(57:07):
a week from tonight, I willbe interviewing Lynn, doctor Lynn Katai,
and we'll be talking about the twentyseventh anniversary of the Phoenix Lights event.
She is all things Phoenix Lights.She took the famous video of that
incredible UFO and I can't wait totalk about Phoenix Lights Doctor Lynn Katai.
(57:29):
One week from tonight, Live fromHollywood, It's Paranormal Tonight. Have a
good week. Thank you for bearingwith me tonight. It was a weird
start but a strong finish. AndI'll see you guys next week. Thank
you very much for everything. Andwatch Resident Alien. Hilarious show. I
love it very much. Okay,thank you, Bye bye Stork. Sacha
(58:07):
Gage five Pach
From Hollywood. It's very normal tennights. I'm Mark Summers and now here's
your host, Jan Harari. Wow, we had Mark Summers introduce me twice.
That's probably never happened in the historyof broadcasting. I'm Dad Hurrari.
Welcome to Paranormal Tonight, and Iappreciate that you came here. I had
(00:41):
Laaryen Jiatis last week. I wasgoing to introduce I was going to interview
last week Paul Heinik, but Ihad no voice. So I will interview
Paul Heinik again in the very nearfuture. In the next couple of weeks.
I have quite a few very interestingguests coming up, so please stick
with me. And this is anew show and it's a new experience for
me, and I really appreciate everyonewho's tuning in. I have a special
(01:03):
shout out to some friends of minethis week, Serena DC and Michael Mazzola,
some very notable documentary filmmakers, produceda very interesting live press conference presentation
on Tuesday here in la and theypresented some very old Peruvian bodies that have
(01:25):
been scientifically proven to be a missingrace of humanoid beings. They're a thousand
years old and I was involved withthat press conference. So Serena and Michael,
if you're listening, I think youdid a great job and it was
really fun to work with you onthat project. Also, I just discovered
a really wonderful TV show. Youprobably all know about it. I just
(01:46):
discovered it the other day, ResidentAlien. It's my new favorite TV show
on Netflix. It's very, veryfunny, and if you haven't seen it
yet, check it out. I'mgoing to try to get the star and
the creator of that show on myshow here at this podcast, very very
soon, just quickly. I'm alongtime Hollywood publicist. I'm the author of
two books, Flirting with Fame myHollywood book and after they came my UFO
(02:10):
sci fi book. And I'm broadcastingfor Beautiful Downtown Beverly Hills. This is
my office in Beverly Hills. Sothere we go. Okay, we have
a very very special guest tonight,and I apologize for my screw ups at
the top of the show. Fortwenty one years, Nick Pope worked for
(02:31):
the UK Ministry of Defense investigating UFOsand other mysteries officially for the brought British
government, leading the media to callhim the Real Life Fox Mulder. One
of his postings was to a divisionwhere his duties included researching and investigating the
UFO phenomenon to assess the defense,national security, and safety of flight implications.
(02:58):
Because of his work on these reallife X files, Nick has worked
as a consultant or spokesperson on numerousUFO and alien themed movies, TV series,
and video games. Nick is aregular contributor to various TV news shows
and documentaries, including of Course,We All Know and Love Dick from Ancient
Aliens. He's also on The BasementOffice and After Contact, the latter of
(03:23):
which he created and hosts. Healso moderates Ancient Aliens Live, which is
a live touring event based on thesuccessful TV series. Nick is also a
member of the Board of Directors ofthe Hollywood Disclosure Alliance, which was founded
by myself and by Stephen Bassett lastyear twenty twenty three, and an honor
(03:46):
for me to have Nick on theboard of directors for the HDA. A
few months before my book After TheyCame was published, Nick was kind enough
to give me a very lovely bookreview quote, which I'd like to read
right now because it meant it meantthe world to me. Dan Harari's book
After They Came is an entertaining andupbeat work of sci fi that cleverly incorporates
(04:10):
key parts of the UFO phenomenon's loreand backstory. It's a delightful tale of
wonder and hope. And I putthat little piece, a delightful tale of
wonder and hope on the cover ofmy book After They Came. And again,
I can't thank him enough anyway,Race, Let's bring in a very
everyone's favorite brit mister Nick Pope.Let's bring him on and hello theah Hey
(04:35):
there, good evening everyone, Goodevening, Nick, Thank you very very
much for doing this. I'm sorryI was Sopha Hoods at the start of
the start of the show. Nono apology necessary. When you when you
were psich. You're sick. There'snothing you can do about it. I've
really yeah, I just got bettera couple of days ago. So first
of all, how are you doingin New York and how are you and
(04:56):
your wife doing there? And howlong I think you're moving back to the
Midwest later this year? Is thatright? That's correct? Yes, Elizabeth
and I have been in New YorkCity since August last year. We're here
because she's actually got a visiting fellowshipwith a think tank called Heterodox Academy,
(05:17):
and it's a one year fellowship.So yeah, we're over six months into
that. We're loving life in NewYork City. We're right in the heart
of Manhattan on Seventh, pretty closeto Times Square and pretty close to Macy's.
So it's the city that Nevis leaps. And yeah, but at the
(05:43):
end of August we go back toour main home, which is Tucson,
Arizona, which we love. Ofcourse, that's right. Were you at
Times Square for New Year's Eve?We went through it, but we actually
went to a seventies and eighties retroclub to do some dancing. Elizabeth's sister
(06:04):
was up with us as well.And I think it's just called the Retro
Club. Actually it's somewhere up Ithink it's off Madison and I don't know,
forty seventh something like that. That'sgreat, that's great. Many of
us. I have my little ShebilI got to read here. Many of
us who are interested in uthology.Of course, you know about your work
at the Ministry of Defense, yourappearances on ancient aliens and many other shows
(06:27):
and documentaries, and you as thehost of Ancient Aliens Live. If you
don't mind, I'd like to firstask you a little bit about you personally.
You know, where are you from, what kinds of hobbies and interests
did you have as a child anda teen young adult and basically what were
you doing Nick in your life beforeyou joined the Ministry of Defense. Well,
(06:48):
I was brought up in the UKand we were kind of, you
know, regular family. We likedoutdoor walks things like that. The countryside
was actually although I moved to Londonwhen I was about fourteen or fifteen because
(07:10):
of my father's work, we actuallyfor my early years grew up in a
fairly small village in the County ofSurrey. So we did all the outdoor
things, you know, riding thebikes and playing the soccer on the local
fields and going for long walks thingslike that. Yeah, so just nothing
(07:33):
special, no, you know,people often say when did you get interested
in UFOs or science fiction? Reallythe answer is I didn't. I mean,
I really did not get into thiswhole subject of UFOs until I was
assigned that position as one of thepostings that I had in my twenty one
(07:58):
year career at the Ministry, butthe Ministry of Defense, and for those
that don't know, I should saythat I was a civilian employee there,
and that the Ministry of Defense isthe UK's equivalent of the Department of Defense
here in the US. And myfather was actually very senior in the Ministry
of Defense. He was an aeronauticalengineer and he was also a director of
(08:22):
the Royal Aeronautical Establishment at Farmborough wherethey have the famous air show, the
Farmber Air Show. Of course,so I was one of my other childhood
interests was aircraft. And then whenI was at school when you had to
join the cadets when you were aboutfourteen or something and you could either join
(08:43):
the Army or the Air Force.Well, I joined the Air Force Cadets,
of course, because that would giveme the opportunity to fly. And
literally age fourteen or fifteen, Ifound myself learning the theory of flight,
studying all the things that you haveto study, and then actually getting some
flights in on the dual control aircraftthat the Royal Aircraft had Royal Air Force
(09:09):
had as their basic trainer, andthey were these little aircraft were called chipmunks.
They flew you up to three thousandfeet and bear in mind, like
I said, I was fourteen yearsyears old. They fly you up to
about three thousand feet or maybe fifteenhundred, can't remember which, and it's
dual control. And then they sayyou have control, and you say I
(09:31):
have control, sir, and you'reflying. Wow. That was great,
great fun. But obviously my fatherbeing in the Ministry of Defense, it
was almost like the family firm.We joked. So I followed him into
that and never never, once regrettedit. What did your father do there?
(09:52):
Well, he had, like me, you get moved around, so
you never do one thing. Sohe was an aeronautical engineer, but his
specialisms were things like structures, materials, aerodynamics. They have one of the
world's largest wind tunnels at Farmborough.But also he was involved in how should
(10:18):
I put it, special projects,special weapons, that sort of thing.
He served as Assistant Chief Scientific AdvisorSpecial Projects, then Deputy Chief Scientific Advisor,
which, because the Chief Scientific Advisoris always an outside posting, is
basically the senior government scientist in theMinistry of Defense. So he also was
(10:45):
awarded. He did a lot ofinternational collaborative work with NATO and particularly with
the United States, And in fact, one of the awards that he was
given was the US Secretary of DefenseMedal for Outstanding Public Service, and that
was to do with some I thinkit was counter proliferation on maybe the chemical
(11:07):
and biological side. Did your fatherget help you get your job at the
MOD No, not at all.That would be totally improper. He obviously
through talking about his work, orthose aspects of his work that he was
able to discuss. I mean,even within the family, you don't,
(11:31):
you know, discuss classified work.So he'd said enough that I thought,
you know, I want to workfor my country, as opposed to say,
work for a corporation where I'm justputting putting dollars in somebody's wallet,
even though typically government jobs aren't aswell paid. But the idea that you'd
(11:56):
be working for your country, thatyou'd be doing fascinating things that you know,
you'd go home and you'd see onthe evening news. And of course,
as the old saying, go somethings that you will never see on
the evening news because they're so sensitive. That's interesting. I don't know that
you're aware of this, my father. You might know this. My father
(12:16):
was an electronics engineer and a physicistfor the US Army at Fort Mammoth,
New Jersey for forty five years.Ah right, and he did top secret
work. He never discussed his workever. And along the way and then
after he died, I discovered myfather helped to invent and design military drones
(12:39):
and all kinds of different missiles andradar systems. And he used to go
to White Sand's missile testing range quiteoften. He gave talks at the Pentagon.
And it's kind of funny, youknow, Nick. After my dad
passed away in twenty seventeen, Icalled my mother and I said, you
know, did Dad ever talk aboutaliens or UFOs at all? And she
(13:01):
said, in the early nineteen fiftiesat Fort Mammoth Army Base, they took
him into the vault. My fatherdeep into the vaults and they showed him
something top secret. And my mothersaid, he came home. This is
probably fifty two fifty three. Hecame home. She said he was pale
and nervous and shaking, and shesaid, honey, what's wrong. My
(13:22):
father said I saw something today.It's above top secret. I can never
tell you as long as I live, and my dad never told anyone.
So in my theory, Nick isthat perhaps it was a piece of a
saucer or some technology. I don'tthink it was a body, But my
dad was a genius engineer, andI think he may have seen some technology,
(13:43):
and I think perhaps he might havebeen involved in the reverse engineering process
for some of the technology, becauseI know my father was helping to design
military drones that I have proof of, right, So it's kind of you
know, you and I and thenPaul Heinek's father with j Helen Heinech,
so you know, and Yumi andPaul Heinech, we all have something in
common, you know. Yeah,the family business sort of secrets. Absolutely.
(14:09):
So in your earliest days at MOD, you know, when you first
started your job there, what didthey tell you your job was and at
what at what point did you realize, oh my god, I'm on the
inside track of UFOs and these settingsand these incredible phenomena. Well, I
had three different postings before I wasassigned to that particular department, so I
(14:35):
had done completely unrelated things for thefirst part of my career. But then
I during the First Golf War,the Persian Gulf War. I was seconded
into the Joint Operations Center and workedfor a particular manager there and I was
due for a move and he hada vacancy coming up, and he said,
(14:58):
well, why don't we just doan inter or swap because he was
in the same section but a differentpart of it. And I said,
fine, let's do that. AndI said, what's the job and he
said, UFOs. So the restis history, and yeah, I started
off. Obviously, one of thefirst things you do, you have a
week where you shadow your predecessor,so you just sit alongside your predecessor and
(15:24):
you know he's doing the job,and then you gradually take over and by
the end of the week you're doingthe job. So then one of the
first things that you have to dois obviously read the entire back archive of
files so that you really read yourselfinto absolutely everything that you have on this.
(15:46):
But then there's no substitute for actuallydoing the investigations as the cases come
through, and we had two orthree hundred each year, so you have
to, you know, just getstuck in to that. And obviously some
of them are pretty mundane, andmost of them, of course turned out
to be misidentifications of fairly ordinary objectsand phenomena, but some don't. And
(16:15):
yeah, that's fascinating. But also, of course it's not just the investigations.
It's one of those odd jobs wherethere are really, you know,
very few people who who have thatdeep specialist knowledge on it. So very
(16:36):
quickly I found myself being the subjectmatter expert on that, and the subject
matter expert I was a junior.I was in the junior managerial grade at
the time called executive officer, andthere were people much more senior than me
who never, for example, gotto brief defense ministers on this or write
(17:02):
defensive lines for the public affairs peopleto put out to the media. But
as the subject matter expert, ifthis question was, if this issue was
raised in Parliament, I was theone that had to draft the speech for
the sect there for whoever it wasto stand up in Parliament and deliver.
(17:23):
So it really you know, youwere thrown in at the dep end for
sure, Well did you go intothat job? Nick? As similar to
j Allen Heinech, he was askeptic for some time and then along the
way he was like, wow thatsome of these things are literally inexplicable.
And he slowly and surely became abeliever. Would you equate yourself along those
(17:45):
lines, Yes, I think so, though I don't even now character characterize
myself as a true believer. Itried to always take a data lad approach
and an ope and minded mindset withthis. So so I go where the
(18:07):
data take me. And if theyif the data say well, look this
is just this is just fire,lanterns or drones, that's that's fine,
case closed. But if it's somethingmore interesting, absolutely focus on that.
You're open to the possibility of thepossibility of an extraterrestrial explanation, Oh for
(18:29):
sure. Yes. And despite theskeptical report from the Pentagon last week,
I think that behind the facade ofhaving to say that we know and I've
met some of them, that thereare people in government, in the military,
in the intelligence community who who aresimilarly minded that they this the extraterrestrial
(18:56):
hypothesis is not off the table,despite despite what was put out last week.
Right, absolutely, what's your feelingabout David Grush, Well, I
haven't met him, but I knowa number of people who do know him,
and I mean it's important for peopleto know, you know, he
when when, for example, peoplehere, some of the people say,
(19:21):
well, he's never seen anything himself, and he's just talked to a load
of people, and people people usethat phrase he's talked to a bunch of
people, as if it's just sortof I don't know, he's gone down
to his local bar or something andstarted chatting about it. But when what
they don't seem to realize, orwhat they do realize but but don't say,
(19:41):
is that he went to talk toa load of people because he was
tasked to do that whilst part ofthe intelligence community cohort making up the the
UAP task He was part of theUAP Task Force when Jay Stratton was the
(20:04):
director, and he was representative ofactually two different agencies, National Reconnaissance Office
and National Geospatial Intelligence. So thepeople that he went to talk to,
he went to talk to them becausehe was tasked to do that as part
(20:29):
of his formal position on the UAPTask Force. So the forty or so
people that he spoke to were themselvespeople inside the system. Right, It's
not like he was talking to hisbarber and his dad, right, right,
I understand we have to take abreak in a few minutes, but
(20:49):
could you quickly give us maybe someof the highlight UFO UAP cases while you
were at mod unusual, bizarre,very strange, and would Randalsham Forest be
among that crowd. Yes, RandalshamForest December nineteen eighty, so before my
time, but I did a coldcase review of the whole incident. That
(21:12):
was probably the best case in ourfiles, particularly because we had trace evidence.
This thing was tracked on radar,left burn and scorch marks on the
ground and on the trees, andleft radioactivity levels that were significantly higher than
the average background and that's not disputed. That's in the declassified Ministure defense file
(21:34):
from the government scientists. Then wehad a case called the Calvin Incident,
very famous Scottish case involving a diamondshaped UFO photograph. I talked about that
on Ancient Aliens last week actually inthe Mysteries of Scotland episode. And a
(21:55):
case from nineteen ninety three called theCosford incident, which was right in the
middle of my hosting. There again, amazing case with a huge triangular shaped
craft seen over a period of aboutsix hours over different parts of the UK.
That's fabulous when people have said overthe years. You know, Randall
shim was that lighthouse that the lightfrom that light, that beacon that was
(22:18):
going around and round. It's soobviously not the case, and so many
people have fell for that. Didyou was that part of your case file?
With the lighthouse? We found ithelpful. I mean, look,
I'll be honest with you. Partof my job, of course, was
to downplay the extent of our interestin this and our involvement, and we
(22:38):
found the lighthouse theory a sort ofuseful thing to just throw out to kind
of get people to back off andshut up. Frankly, yeah, yeah,
yeah, Okay, let's take alittle break and pay some bills,
run some commercials. I think it'sabout a minute and a half, two
minutes, and we'll be back withNick Pop right after these messages. Unlock
(23:26):
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(27:22):
welcome back to Part two of ParanormalTonight. I'm Dan Harrari. We're a
very very special guest star tonight isNick Pope. Let's bring Nick back in.
Please hello again. Thank you forbearing with us for that little commercial
break. Nick, You've been calledthe Real Life Fox Molder and X Files
was probably one of my all timefavorite TV shows. What did you think
(27:45):
about that show? And did youever meet David Duchovny, Jillian Anderson or
Chris Carter. I loved the show, and I met all three of them.
In fact, I met them becauseI had some in with the show.
I think you mentioned at the topof the hour in my bio the
(28:10):
fact that I had done some consultancyand spokesperson work on various movies, TV
shows, and video games. Well, I got involved, actually in some
spokesperson work for the second X Filesmovie and for one of the DVD box
set compilations of Chris Carter's favorite episodes. He picked one from each season something
(28:37):
like that, and so I dida whole bunch of interviews to talk about
that, talk about my love ofthe show, and to talk about how
it tied in with you know,real life government work on UFOs and the
unexplained. So one of the thingsthat I then got to do was go
to the London premiere of the movie, where I met all three of them.
(29:02):
And of course, you know whenI when I said, when I
met Chris Carter for the first time, you know, it was like,
oh, yeah, I had thejob where I investigated UFOs for the British
government and he said, oh yes, he said, I know all about
that, and of course he had, as we later find found out,
(29:22):
he had been researching this subject ingreat depth for some time, sort of
sitting at the back of UFO meetingsthat sort of thing. But he knew
about the British government's UFO program,of course, and then that was one
of the reasons why I got askedto get involved in this spokesperson role.
That's great. Please tell me youhave a photo of you and David and
(29:44):
Jillian and Chris together somewhere or theother. Well, there's definitely one of
me and me and David. Iwould love to see that sometimes. For
sure, I'm pretty sure that Jillianwas quite heavily pregnant at the time,
so I think she had to kindof do a quick hello goodbye. But
yeah, we got to hang outwith David for quite some time. That's
(30:07):
great. Well they wrote Jillian's pregnancyinto some of the episodes. Sure,
yeah, yeah. Who do youremember when you first heard that you were
the real life Fox Mother. Doyou know where that came from? You
know, I can't quite place it, but I think it was some journalist
(30:30):
who who was writing up my storyas a sort of profile piece, and
then was just struck by the parallelAnd at first I think, I mean,
all this now is some time ago. But at first I think I
was a little irritated because I waslike, hey, this was a government
job, you know, not asci fi series. But then I realized,
(30:53):
look, you can't be too preciousabout this. And I of course
came to love the X Files,and then I thought, hey, you
know own it? Why not?You know, if they're going to call
you that own it, that's terrific. I think that's great. I loved
I would love to see that photoone day. I really grip you find
(31:14):
it. Of course, we allknow I love you from ancient Aliens.
A quick story about myself. Ifirst got interested in upology Nick around two
thousand and seven, and I hadjust heard about Moufon for the first time
two thousand and seven. I didn'tknow what Mufon was, so I joined
the local La Moufon chapter and Igot very lucky from a very very first
(31:34):
meeting ever in my entire life.At MoveOn Georgia Otsuklos was to speak Georgia
and he did like ninety minutes aboutancient alien theory. And nick I knew
none of this. You know,my parents, my rabbi and my teachers
from from when I was a kid. Well, I didn't know any of
these things, you know, thepetroglyphs and the and the cave drawings and
(31:56):
the Stonehenge and the crop circles,and the pyramids and the pyramids in Mexico,
and it just Betty and Barney Hill, It just Travis Wong. Nick
I was like the ninety minute liketears tears, And at the end I
went up to him, I said, Georgio, that was the most incredible
thing I've ever seen. I shookhis head. I think I hugged.
(32:19):
I said, you just changed myentire view of the world and it goes
cool. Thanks man, And I'vemet him many many times since then.
How did you first meet Georgio andhow did you become part of the Ancient
Aliens TV show? Well, Ihad been on some episodes of Ancient Aliens
over the years, but in aroundand then of course that was starting off
(32:45):
when I lived back in the UK. But then I moved over to the
US in January of twenty twelve,and in about twenty fifteen two thy sixteen,
the late Kevin Burns, the creativegenius behind well not just Ancient Aliens,
but so much else. Basically,the way I heard it was he
(33:09):
turned to his assistant and said,we need to you know, we need
Nick in the show more. Andthen so from that time onwards, I
found myself doing more and more episodes, and then we started we had a
thing called Alien Kahn, which waslike kind of based on Comic Con and
and all these big conventions, butbut was a mix of Ancient Aliens but
(33:32):
also some sci fi as well.Some of the early ones we we had
some of the actors from from StarTrek, in from from Doctor Who,
Very from Lost in Space for youknow, various various different people. But
and so of course I had metGeorgio occasionally, you know, doing doing
(33:53):
the episode of Ancient Aliens, butbut there it was kind of I'd go
in for an episode just as hewas coming out from his so it was
again a quick hallo goodbye. Thengot to see each other a bit more
at Alien Con those events and siton some panels together, including the so
(34:15):
called super panel, which Kevin Burnsloved to moderate on the Saturday night.
But then it was Ancient Aliens Livebecame a thing, and I think originally
the plan was to have Georgiosukulass,David Childress, and William Henry, but
then at some point Travis Taylor andmyself were brought in, and I was
(34:43):
brought in actually as moderator. Now, of course you cannot do a live
touring show and not get much closerto the people than you've ever got,
say, when you're filming together,where if it's a movie, you've got
different scenes, if it's a documentary, you're you have different interview slots.
(35:05):
But Ancient Aliens Live we've done fortyshows. We've got another I think twenty
six on the website. For springand summer. We tend to do runs
of four shows. It's a ninetyminute live show. We tour all around
the United States, and of courseyou really bond with the rest of the
(35:29):
team doing that and it's great fun. That's very cool. What's it like
for you? I don't imagine thatwhen you joined the mod that one day
in the future you would be aUFO rock star and you'd have fans leneing
up to meet you and shake yourhand and take your photo with you.
(35:50):
What is that like for you,Nick personally? Is it fulfilling? Is
it a little bit embarrassing? What'sthat like? It's very odd. I
mean, you're right though with yourquestion. When I joined them in a
defense, of course, particularly whenyou do jobs that involve classified work,
you're living your life in the shadows, and the whole point is that you
(36:10):
stay under the radar. And andthen so to to have the narrative flip
like this and to be in thepublic eye is is it's quite strange.
But but you know, I loveit. I love I get that Ancient
Aliens has has the most amazing fans, and not just fans but super fans
(36:37):
who will watch every episode, whowho will come to the live shows,
who will who will spot the memesand the catch phrases, and and they'll
really engage with that, and sowhen I when I meet people who love
the show, I always try andyou know, yeah, stop for photo
(37:00):
sign things, have a chat,you know where as long as I'm not
rushing for a plane or something,I don't want to miss a flight.
But but yeah, people stop mein the street all the time now and
it does take some getting used to, but yeah, people people are great
with it, and yeah, I'mI'm happy to to, like I say,
(37:24):
post, post for photos and havea little chat about things. That's
so cool. Are your parents stillalive? No, they're not. No.
Did they live to see that theirson became a world famous UFO rock
star? No, they didn't.I'm not sure. You imagine your father's
reaction. I'm not sure it wouldhave been quite his thing. Where did
(37:50):
I go wrong? Have you everbeen speaking of Travis? I know Travis
Taylor is a friend of yours.Have you ever been to Skinwalker Ranch?
I've not. We've We've talked aboutarranging it, but obviously it's it's that
that will will be up to BrandonFugel and you know, obviously they're filming
(38:13):
the TV series there. I'd loveto go, so maybe the opportunity will
arise. But of course Travis's isbusy doing doing that and doing a whole
bunch of other things as well.But Travis is Travis is great, and
Travis is one of the He's oneof the other people of course who who
has a kind of government background himself. So it's we all get on on
(38:37):
the show. But inevitably, whenyou when you have someone like Travis who's
who's also done government work, youspeak the same language. You know.
It's like it's like when people inany field get together. It's like when
cops get together, or ex militaryget together, or publicists get together.
(38:59):
Right know, you've you've got yourown. Boy, did I wrote a
hell of a press release? Literally, as yeah, you think you did
a good press release? You shouldhave seen my Yeah, you're right.
So but yeah, you have thatlanguage. So Travis and I, Travis
and I, you know, sometimeson the show, we've stayed up after
the show, have a celebratory drinkor two and swap stories about some of
(39:20):
the crazy things that go on ingovernment. Well, my daughter Angelie,
she's on the chat here over theside there, but she and we watched
the Skinwalker Show religiously and we've We'vegreatly enjoyed it, and I'd love to
meet Travis at some point. Heseems like a very cool guy. He's
a fascinating guy, super smart ofcourse, sure, and yeah he's doing
(39:44):
some amazing work there, as asare the rest of the team. Some
really bizarre things going on by allaccounts. Absolutely. Now here's a very
big question, Nick, I don'tI'm sure you've been asked this, but
I don't know the answer. Haveyou personally ever seen a UFO? Sadly,
no, it's a little bit unfair. I think I'm d a sighting.
(40:07):
Surely you would think, having investigatedhundreds, if not thousands of other
people's sightings, but no, neverseen a thing myself. So bring it
on. I mean, come on, when I go back to particularly when
I go back to Tucson with theclear skies and the beautiful viewing conditions there,
that's the place for it. That'sgreat, much as I'd love to
(40:30):
have a New York City sighting likeJohn Lennon did and Muhammad Ali. I
just was going to say that John, you know, I only heard about
you. I'm a huge Beatles fan, and John in particular, I just
recently heard about the John Lennon UFOsiting that wasn't very very famous at the
time, but right, I thinkhe was with May Pang at the time
and they were on the roof terrace. My best friend in the world owns
(40:53):
a nightclub in New York called TheCutting Room, and his best friend in
the world is May Pang. SoI have to ask my friend Steve to
ask me Peg I will about theJohn Lennon study. Oh, sure,
I didn't know that. That's verycool. Something else I wanted to ask
you, since there are so manycrop circles in the UK, and I
think you and I spoke about thisa little bit recently, what's your personal
(41:15):
feeling about crop circles. You know, I'm going to be very unpopular here,
I'm sure, but I'm pretty skepticalabout those. I've seen people make
some pretty amazing ones, and youknow, until and unless I see and
I know people talk about changes atthe cellular level, but until I see
(41:37):
that written up in a peer reviewedpaper and published in science or Nature,
I'm kind of yeah, I'm notreally sold on that. To be honest.
That doesn't mean that they're not beautifuland amazing. And I've been in
some of them. I was oneof the first people, for example,
(42:00):
in the Julia set I believe,which was I'm trying to think maybe nineteen
ninety six, the one by Stonehenge, amazing formation in the shape of a
fractal, so a mathematical symbol andshape, and I was one of the
first people in that formation. Butyeah, I have yet to be persuaded.
(42:23):
Do you know I think her nameis Patty Greer the Crab Circle,
No Patty, Yeah, yeah,because she'll probably want to wring my neck
after that. But she'll want toring your neck, dick, because I
just saw a documentary she was in. She says, which was I'd never
heard before. There's some kind ofenergy that comes up from underneath the earth.
(42:44):
You know, everyone thinks it's ET'scoming down. She says. They
are these balls of energy up fromunder the ground. Hover once swirls this
way, the other swirls the opposite, and they sort of are, you
know, laser etching these things.And you felt pretty strongly you might want
to have a conversation with daddy career, right, Yeah, Well, I
(43:04):
know Patty quite well, so I'llhave to sit down and have this out
with her. That might be interesting, you know, dueling, Encroft,
circle point of views, you know, but you know, I have to
call it how I see it,not one of these people that's going to
go, oh yeah, that's absolutelytrue. That's absolutely true, completely believe
that. I mean, like Isaid at the outset, I'm very kind
(43:27):
of data led. I try tonot come into anything with preconceived ideas either
four or against. But I'm stillokay persuade me kind of guy. I
think that's a terrific way to be, you know, and I appreciate your
honesty. You could have said,oh, yeah, I've seen fifty sixty
UFOs. You're like the most famousperson on the planet who studies UFOs who
(43:49):
never saw a UFL. You know, you're right, it's not fair.
I've seen three. Oh I seenthree personally, so you definitely do.
Do at least one raisically that firstslide number one. Please, there you
go. So guy, first metyou here? That was at Alien Con
last year. Oh yeah, Pasadena, right, Asadena. This first time.
(44:12):
Now, you had been kind enoughto help me with my book quote
a few months before this, butthis is the first time you and I
met in person, and you signedmy book and I have a very prestigious
place in my living room. Soeveryone, oh, Nick Pope, you
know Nick Pope? Yeah, yeah, I know, Nick Pope. Yeah,
that was very cool. And therewe are behind the curtain literally and
(44:36):
I think if you remember why,it was like you were kind enough to
do this for me because you didn'twant the other people to see. And
it was a whole thing anyway.But that's a great picture. Well,
I think I was supposed to besigning uh posters and doing photos with people,
so I had to I had tosneak out the back and do it.
Yeah, this is like in theback out d don't tell anybody,
(45:00):
you know, Nick, and Iyeah, I don't tell anybody. So
that was on the Q two.But it's a lovely photo and I appreciate
it. Ras can we see thenext one? So Nick, you and
I recently had a very nice dinnerwith our friend Jeff Stein at Mussou and
Frank, the famous Mussou and Frankrestaurant in Hollywood. I represent them,
(45:20):
and I think we all had avery nice time that evening. That was
a few months ago. Yeah,amazing, what a storied restaurant that is.
And you said the nicest thing,which I told the owner. You
told me at the end, yousaid, Dan, I could check this
off my bucket list now, andthat was so cool that you said,
yeah, that was great. Atthe dinner, I think you told me
(45:42):
I was not mistaken if I wastwo martinis in, But you told me
a story about your workplace in theUK that it was haunted something in the
basement or yes, it was someparanormal stuff. What's your take on paranormal
ghost kind of stuff. Well,here's the story, and it's really interesting.
If you look at a picture ofMinistry of Defense main building, it's
(46:06):
it's a very modern looking kind ofmonolithic, kind of white stone, green
copper roof, stalin esque architecture.But it's built on the site of the
old Whitehall Palace. And so ifyou go from ground level down a couple
(46:28):
of levels, there's one point wheresuddenly you go from all these sort of
modern offices and computer rooms and allof that, and you find yourself You
almost think you've done a time slipor something. You are literally in a
medieval kind of setting, and youliterally are because it is the old Wines.
(46:53):
It's called the Henry, the eighthwine Cellar, but it dates back
before even Henry the Eighth, whichwas sixteenth century, dates back before that,
and it's reputed to be haunted.And I've not seen anything myself,
(47:14):
but the security guards who do thepatrolling, who most of hermer sort of
fairly tough, old retired army typesor police types. Security guards have said
that they've seen things down their shadowyfigures, walking through the walls, that
(47:37):
sort of thing. And one timethe Ministry of Defense in house magazine called
Focus ran a ghost story from somebodywho'd been on patrol, actually not in
main building, somewhere else, butfinished off the article by saying something like
your or The letter said, wewouldn't normally publish a letter like this,
(47:59):
but we thought it was so interestingthat we'd break precedent and do it.
Has anyone else seen anything? Andthey got the biggest post by you know,
that they'd ever received, so itwas amazing. But yeah, under
Ministry of Defense, main building isthe Henry the eighth wine Cellar supposed to
(48:20):
be haunted. People hold their leavingparties in there. So when my father
retired from the Ministry of Defense,he had his farewell drinks there and then
and later on I had mine.That's great, Race, can you take
down that photo now please? Therehe goes, that's great. I very
(48:43):
quickly in there. I don't thinkyou know this. I have a book
coming out in May called My ParanormalLife. And I've had ghosts, paltergeist
angelic voices telling me things in myears that came true. I've had light
bulbs go off over my head almostlythat became major businesses money that I mean
(49:07):
from starting from the age of five. I looked back. So I'll get
your copy next time. I seewhat it's called My Paranormal Life. It's
my whole history of the weirdness byUFOs, all that kind of stuff.
In February, you spoke here inLa at the Conscious Life Expo. I
was in your audience, and yougave a talk about disclosure, and you
were saying some things Nick that differpretty dramatically from that opinion of my friend
(49:32):
Steve Bassett. Steve Bassett, whohas become literally one of my best friends
in the world. He's like,you know, disclosure, you know they'll
be angels like oh, like angelsstill singing and dancing in cherubs, dancing
in the street, little kids,you know, and doing hula hoops and
everything is going to be ponies andrainbows. And you were like, uh
uh uh, I think disclosure.You know, let's be careful what we
(49:54):
wish for, because perhaps it mightnot be all of that. So tell
us a little bit about your disclosurePOV. Yes, I've never bought into
this it's all going to be rosyin the garden and all that, because
if that was the case, Idon't think there would be any difficulty with
(50:17):
any of this, and yet we'veseen that clearly is a difficulty. So
I think I think people should becareful what they wish for, because I
think it's to me. I can'thelp but think that this, like most
things in life, comes with adark side. And I mean just even
on the practical sense of it.Let's suppose that this is true, and
(50:42):
that we find that there's a spaceshipkicking around in the basement of the Pentagon
somewhere, and we busted out andall the technology gets kind of put into
the public domain. Well, almostcertainly. One of the few good assumptions
you can make about aliens is thattheir technology would be orders of magnitude above
(51:04):
and beyond anything we have sure andanything that you'd need for viable interstellar travel
in terms of propulsion system almost certainlyinvolves the generation of very large amounts of
energy, and anything that involves largeamounts of energy can be weaponized. So
you know, we might want tobe a little bit careful before we say,
(51:25):
oh, just put it all outin the public domain, because again
for the people that say, well, the American people have a right to
know. When you tell the Americanpeople, you also tell the leadership in
China, Russia, North Korea,Iran, you know, all the terror
groups like ISIS and Hamas. Soyou know, we should be careful with
(51:51):
all this. It's very interesting,you know, because I totally appreciated what
you said at your lecture and everytime to Steven Bassett, Dan, you
know, disclosures coming. It couldbe tomorrow, it could be tomorrow.
President Biden's going to go on TV. It's going to happen. It's gonna
be great, It's going to begreat. I'm like I actually said,
I said, Steve, have youspoken to Nick Pope recently about this topic?
(52:14):
You might want to, you know, maybe meet each other a little
bit halfway, But yeah, Ithink so. I mean, I've known
Steve for years and of course Ilike him. We get on and we
exchange a couple of emails today.But so but we agree to disagree on
this. I think that's fine.That's absolutely fine. Just a quick plug.
(52:36):
I'm the publicist for Contact in theDesert. Anyone who's watching out there,
please be sure to get your tickets. Nick Pope will be there and
Steve Bassett and Richard Dolan and allthe all the UFO rock stars will all
be speaking this year. Contact inthe Desert dot com a little plug for
them because they're my friends as well. I think I have time Nick for
(52:57):
one last question. You're a memberof the board of directors of my group
called the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance, whichSteve Bassett and I created last year.
I think we have about one hundredand fifty members now. A number of
people are based around the world.We're having an event this Sunday in LA
called the Making of Project Blue Bookwith Paul Heinek and the producers of that
(53:20):
show itself. And if you werein town, of course I would have
I would have dragged you kicking andscreaming two attend but next time you're in
LA, please let me know.What are your thoughts about how Hollywood historically,
you know, has portrayed aliens andets. Usually it's you know,
they come to kill us and eatus. But what do you think Hollywood's
role could be in the disclosure movement? And where do you see perhaps the
(53:45):
group like the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance,where we might make some progress in the
future. Well, I think it'sbeen a mixed bag with Hollywood, but
obviously things like Coast Encounters of theThird Kind and really thoughtful pieces of science
fiction like Contact and Arrival have Ithink been brilliant for this subject. What
(54:07):
I think the Hollywood Disclosure Alliance cando and is starting to do, is
draw together actors, directors, writers, agents, publicists, so that next
time, instead of Hollywood, youknow, the studio making a movie about
(54:28):
all of this, let's let thepeople that know about it shape that movie
from the very outset, rather thancoming in at the end and just doing
a little bit of publicity or something, Get us in at the ground level
and make a movie that reflects thereality of this. And also, I
think the really intriguing questions of whathappens next because it's the societal impact of
(54:53):
this that most interests me at themoment, not the sort of skeptic versus
believer dogfighter about what this is.Let's let's get over that and say,
well, if it happens, whatthen? And I'd like to see the
Hollywood Disclosure all Alliance engaging with workingwith a major studio to craft something that
(55:13):
will tell that story so that wecan all think about it before it happens,
and that way we'll be ready forit when it does happen. That's
wonderful, Nick, you should bethe publicist for Ada instead of me.
That was the greatest thing I everheard. I'm going to have to route
that little speech to everyone I knowon the earth. Nick, what's just
a little minute and a half.What's left for you this year? What
(55:36):
do you have coming up at thenew projects? I know you're still going
to be on tour and in thenext few months, is that right?
Yes, We've just wrapped the newseason of Ancient Aliens, so some new
episodes coming up. I'm speaking atthe Ozark Mountain UFO conference. Then,
of course, as you mentioned,Contact in the Desert, the Amazing tenth
Anniversary one and Ancient Aliens Live andthe website for that is Ancient Aliens Life
(56:01):
Tour dot com and people can seeif we're coming to your city or near.
That's wonderful. And last question,Nick, how can people reach you
our Instagram? Facebook? How wouldyou like to be contacted if anyone has
questions for you? My website isNick Pope dot net and I have contact
details on there and my ex formerlyknown as Twitter. It's the social media
(56:25):
platform I'm most active on. Iam at Nick Pope mood for Ministry of
Defense at Nick Pope MD. Whenyou said my ex, I thought,
oh, I didn't know Nick hadan ex wife. Really, Nick,
thank you very very much. Iso appreciate it. I really your friendship
with myself means the world to me, and I hope to see you soon
(56:46):
the next time you're in LA.If not, I'll see you at contact
for sure. Thanks. I appreciatethat you stayed up until the middle of
the night because you're in New Yorkand I know it's late for you to
go to sleep, and please tellElizabeth I said hello. Thank you very
very much. Thank you, Dan, thank you, and everyone. That's
it for tonight's show, Live fromHollywood, It's Paranormal Tonight. Next week,
(57:07):
a week from tonight, I willbe interviewing Lynn, doctor Lynn Katai,
and we'll be talking about the twentyseventh anniversary of the Phoenix Lights event.
She is all things Phoenix Lights.She took the famous video of that
incredible UFO and I can't wait totalk about Phoenix Lights Doctor Lynn Katai.
(57:29):
One week from tonight, Live fromHollywood, It's Paranormal Tonight. Have a
good week. Thank you for bearingwith me tonight. It was a weird
start but a strong finish. AndI'll see you guys next week. Thank
you very much for everything. Andwatch Resident Alien. Hilarious show. I
love it very much. Okay,thank you, Bye bye Stork. Sacha
(58:07):
Gage five Pach
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