Life lessons from the fight coach

Rod Ramsay is a cage fight trainer, gym owner and security guard at one the most violent pubs in Australia. His story is inspiring, surprising and full of lessons for all of us.

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Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Welcome to Jamie's Club. I'm reallyglad that you hear. You know,
I'm just a guy recording some audio, sitting here talking into a microphone,
and you're listening to it. Ithank you so much for doing that.
It does mean a lot. Ifyou want to go a step further rating
this episode or the show to thehighest amount of stars you can on the
platform that you're listening to this on, that would help me out a lot.

(00:26):
Leaving a comment the algorithm loves that. I still find it odd when
I run into people that think it'simpressive that I have a podcast. It's
to me, anyway, not anoverally difficult thing to do. I just
sit here and talk into a microphoneand press the big round record button.
But I'm glad that some people thinkthat it's worthy of praise, and I'll

(00:46):
always accept it. Don't get mewrong, But having done a little bit
of TV, having done some acting, having done a lot of radio in
my life, the things that I'vedone don't seem that impressive to me.
But from the outside those things canbe extraordinarily impressive. The difference would be
extraordinarily apparent to me when I wouldjust have done my daytime shift. I

(01:10):
spent some time as a daytime announcerin a reasonably largish market, and I've
been on air for a few hoursand no one in the station cares or
thinks it's a big deal. You'rejust fairly low down. I guess in
the ranks of your radio hosts.You're not your big name breakfast celebrities that
get all the attention, and ifthey're famous enough, nice big paychecks to

(01:33):
go with it. But then whenwe'd get kids in because we needed them
to do a voice for a commercial, you would see these kids doing their
commercial in the sound studio and theyare just bursting to get out of there
and go on back to school andbrag to all their mates that they're going
to be on a radio commercial.I can tell you that whatever it is

(01:57):
that you do for a job orhobby, or just in your life in
general, there is someone who'll beimpressed that you do that. If you're
someone that makes something or fixes things, or just goes through life with some
kind of long term health condition ordisability, there's going to be someone who
thinks that that is an amazing story. The person I'm speaking with today is

(02:22):
rod Ramsey, and when I talkedwith him about being on the show,
he at first was pretty reluctant.He said, I don't think I'm going
to be that interesting. Now.This is a guy who's trained to a
very high level across many martial artsdisciplines. He has trained a heap of
cage fighters. He has opened hisown fighting gym and kept it successfully running

(02:47):
for many years. And he's workedas a bouncer at one of the most
violent pubs in Australia. And hethinks that's no big deal. To me,
That's an impressive story, and Ireally want to share some of the
lessons that he's learned about fighting andabout life in general. See, this

(03:07):
isn't just a story about punching andkicking. This is about discipline. This
is about the mindset of a fighterand the mindset of a generally persistent person.
And I think that we all fightin our lives. That fight might
be against your own self doubt.It might be against another person physical or
not. It might be against asystem or a situation that is against you.

(03:31):
It could be against a medical conditionthat you have to deal with.
And this is where the mindset ofa fighter is so applicable to everyday life
that I'm sure there is something inthis for you. So let me introduce
you to my friend Rod Ramsey.He's the owner of Martial Arts First in
Lismore, New South Wales. Herein Australia. Made. It is so

(03:54):
good to see you again after somuch time. You're looking healthy, you're
looking fit, you're still running.Still training is to you obviously looking after
yourself. Yeah, may still tryand keep busy with it all. You
know, I I love doing itso like I've made it. It's been
been good, so I keep tryingto be Oh, I got to try
and stay reasonably fit, to keepthe guys up there and keep them pushing
along. You know, it's nottoo bad. The coach should be able

(04:16):
to sit back in a chair andjust eat chips and say no, no,
no, don't try it again.That was crap. That's anyway.
You're such a humble person, youknow. It's like, even when I
talked to you initially about having achat on the podcast, You're like,
my life's not that interesting, andit's like, mate, you've got no
idea how interesting it is the peopleon the outside. You've You've opened your

(04:40):
own own fighting gym. You've trainedcage fighters, You've you've worked security for
how more than a decade? You'vetraveled and trained in multiple countries. I
know you've done Multai training over inThailand, is that right? Yeah?
I try in Thailand for a littlebit and try and Phillip he's doing some

(05:00):
filiplayer martial arts over there, andyeah, but not extensively, not too
much, but yeah, just alittle bit here and there. I mainly
sort of trained here in Australia witha tie here, just one on one
with his train with him for yearshere in Australia because in Thailand, I
don't know if people know that thatmoy thaie is like the national sport.
It's like AFL in Australia, right, like every second guy's doing it.

(05:24):
Yeah, yeah, everyone does itover there. You know, it's pretty
rare if they don't do it,you know, or have an attempted it
somewhere along the line. Yep,even even just recreationally or just a way
to keep fit. I'll tell youwhat it's it's a hell of a workout.
And having trained with you, I'dnever work so hard in my life
in those days. Mate, Whatis it that you that attracted you first

(05:45):
to fighting. Was it just likegrowing up you were just what influenced by
movies? Or were you getting pickedon by bullies? What got you into
into fighting? Oh? Mate?Basically probably about ninety percent of everyone's got
in the Marshall so Bruce Lee movie, mate, and that was it.
You know, Yes, I rememberit as a kid who I was probably
about eleven or twelve, watched TheEnd of the Dragon and I just thought

(06:06):
that was the best thing I've everseen, you know, never seen anything
like it before. So I thought, yeah, Mom and Dad always trying
to get me into a sport andI was never very sporty minded, you
know, I wasn't very coordinated oranything really as a kid, and I
said, yeah, I want todo that. So like you know,
I ended up finding a martial artsstudio for me, and you ended up
started doing Twokland. Like when Iwas twelve. You know, there was

(06:30):
very very different back then to whatit is now. Like I had to
get they had to get special permissionand stuff for me to train because at
that stage they weren't lay it well. You know, the club I was
with, they won't try anyone overthe age of eighteen and to be aden
or least or older. So likeI was twelve years old and I went
in there to going, oh,I don't know if we can accept.
You will have to find out,and they had to send a letter off

(06:50):
to the master or whatever it is, and they ended up going, yeah,
okay, you can do it.So it wasn't too bad. Where
was that that you were training?I just in Lismore, like, I
mean, you know, it wasjust the guys I was training with.
I think they were originally started withRetykonda, which at at that time was
quite big in Australia. And Ieventually sort of got to a certain point

(07:14):
amongst themselves where they broke away andsort of like which happened a lot with
a lot of Tychondo systems, theyall sort of broke away, ended up
doing their own thing and sort ofwent more into kickboxing and stuff like that,
you know, And a lot ofthe guys I trained with then I
just followed them and like and thenthey just all ended up going off and
doing their own thing and grading theirown sort of like system I suppose,

(07:36):
you know. And we did adominantly a lot of kickboxing and kickboxing sort
of competitions and stuff like that afterthat, because Retype and Day wasn't in
the competition at all. They reckonedthey were two, you know, their
techniques are too dangerous or whatever,and it's a bit of crap really,
you know. We just went offand followed the rest of the boys,

(07:56):
and I said, I was theyoungest one there. You know, I
was like, he is fourteen,fifteen and sparring and fighting guys like twenty
twenty two years a lot bigger thana lot more experience than I was,
you know, and they had thiscouper a lot of beating sometimes and other
times you lucky to give it back. It wasn't too bad though, you

(08:18):
know. So, yeah, thatmust have been really hard fighting opponents who
are bigger than new, older thanyou, more experienced than you. And
I mean, now, getting kidsinto martial arts is a big thing.
You've taught You've actually taught kids classesspecifically yourself, haven't you. Yeah,
yeah, we had quite a fewkids classes there at one stage, and

(08:39):
like you know, the it's agreat thing for kids to get into,
like you know, good for theirself discipline and confidence, you know,
especially when there's grading tests and someonelike that involved in it. I think,
like, you know, you reallysee that sort of lift the kids
confidence and stuff as they go throughthe ranks and get more disciplined and basically
focused on what they're doing. Youknow, some people would argue that,

(09:01):
say, like, if you've gota kid that doesn't have focus, doesn't
have discipline, last thing you wantto do is teach you how to punch
someone in the face better. Right, Yeah, I don't know, like
amand I think sometimes it's people wholook at say martial arts or Muay thaile,
you know, as just a fightingart. They're a bit naive,
you know what I mean, becauseit's a lot of discipline, you know,

(09:24):
a lot of mental focus and muchmore disciplined orientated than what people give
it credit for, you know whatI mean, especially if they've never done
it. People they think it's likeit's punching and kicking and teaching someone how
to fight, and it's complete opposite. You know, you're learning how learning
how to channel that energy, butnot how to fight. Basically you learned
that. You know, both peopleget hurt, whether you win't lose a

(09:46):
draw, you know, and youknow, whether it's a verbal or physical
altercation. A lot of times peopleget hurt, you know, so it
starts to make you really start toconsidering, you know, you're going to
want to fight at all, youknow, like you know, it's much
much more the much more taught thanjust punching and kicking, you know,
hm hm. And like muy Thaiis a newer style, isn't it,

(10:07):
like compared to karate and things likethis that have been around a lot longer.
Yeah, I suppose, Like Imean, it's it's certainly been around
for hundreds of years, Like Imean, it was originally known as Moi
Baran and then become muy Thai oncethey sort of tried to make Mui Thai

(10:30):
more appealing to the Westerners, theysort of like modified it a little bit,
you know. And but yeah,it's been like jeez, oh well,
and truly since you know seventies ornineteen seventies or before that. You
know, we iman where m branlike gre Bigger Bond come first, which
is a double and single sword fightingand the staff the weaponry system of Thailand,

(10:50):
you know, that come first,and then out of that they developed
Moi Baran, and then from MoiBaran later on they've boorded it down a
bit further and become mui Thai.But mui Thai still you know, devastating
you know, self defense and ringsport, like you know, you still
get like I still train, youknow, specialty you know what do you

(11:11):
call, Like you know, policeand units and stuff like that come and
train with me from those sort ofdifferent specialty units. And I've had like
you know, armies and army guyscome and train with me, you know,
commandos and all that sort of thing. I mean, So like I
mean, just depends on how openminded you are with it, you know
what I mean, Like you cancertainly you don't just have to focus just

(11:33):
on the ring sport, but youcan certainly utilize you know a lot of
the guys that they're more interested andwhen I shout it's like more barant techniques
and the muy Thai. But likeit's so similar to that, just practically
the same, you know, it'sjust a variation where you have a glove
on or not. You know,I know that a lot of the NRL
clubs use jiu jitsu to help bringother players down on the footing field.

(11:56):
Yeah, like when I started doingBrazilian jiu jitsu. I bought Brazilian jiu
jitsu here to Lismore, like quitea few years ago, and we started
doing that. And we had Ihad a brown belt from Bruno Pennot's gym
down and Sydney coming up here andtraining you know, the guys up here
was in a rotation through the hospital, you know, and we had him

(12:18):
teaching the brazil jiu jitsu classes forus, and yeah, a lot of
footy teeneys wanted to come in,but the coaches weren't really interested in they're
guys learning brazil And jiu jitsu.They wanted specifically for their football tackle or
whatever it is, you know whatI mean. And like, I mean,
yeah, I don't know. Likethe guy that we were sort of
training under, he said, oh, you know, I'm not really interested.

(12:39):
I want to teach Brazilan jiu jitsu. I'm not teaching it specifically for
football, you know, Okay,you know, yeah, but you know
it was certainly yeah, there's there'sI think, you know, system matter
of learning them, teaching them toput their weight down properly on people and
stuff. I think, you know, that's all. They're sort of achieving
out of it. I don't thinkthey can put any locks at anyone,
anyone when they tackle them. Youknow, No, it's just about I

(13:01):
think getting them down to the groundas efficiently as possible. And you know,
if you've got a guy that thatweighs, you know, one hundred
and twenty kilos or one hundred andthirty were full of muscle, it's probably
going to be a challenge to bringhim down to the ground. Yeah,
yeah, for sure. You know, but if they get a good angle,
I suppose on them and get youknow, double leg takedown, single
leg takedown, and then you know, the principals are there, you know,

(13:22):
certainly try and apply it. Youknow. I remember speaking to you
when you were doing kids classes andtraining kids, and there was there was
some concern from some parents, asyou think there should be that what is
my kid going to get hurt?Is this dangerous for them? And I
remember you saying, how how it'sprobably less dangerous for the kids than being

(13:45):
on the footy field. Say right, yeah, well I think so for
sure. Like you know, theeven like training wise and even competition wise,
like you know, the you getkids who are playing football and you
know, I've never played football,To be honest, I don't know,
but like I mean, from differentparents come into the gym and telling me

(14:05):
different things about like, you know, little Johnny's like five and six years
old playing tackle football, you know, six years old. Like every time
that child's body hits the ground,his brain's getting rattled, you know what
I mean. You can't tell methat couldn't be happening. Every time they
drive in and make contact and attackletheir brains getting rattled, you know.
And plus there's no way categories infootball, and they're training them at times

(14:28):
to go low and high. Soone guy tackles the waist, one guy
goes around their head or the shoulders, you know, at least and moy
Thai and boxing, kickboxing, there'sway categories. You know, you're getting
matched with someone who's of similar experience, you know, similar age and if
kids sometimes like especially with kids,depends on what age they are, where

(14:48):
they're allowed to strike the head ornot, you know, out of a
tall body striking to little bodies,and they can punch and kick to the
arms and legs and to the torsonot low to strike to the head.
You know, there's football five andsix year olds out there playing tackle football,
like you know, and one refis looking at what is it twenty

(15:09):
something kids each side, twenty fivekids each side or whatever it is,
or twenty five kids in total.I don't know how many on a footy
field, but he's trying to oneref's looking over this many multiple kids tackling
one kid who's got the ball.And if they're saying a sparring session,
you've got one ref concentrating on thosetwo kids. Are that they don't do
anything really silly to hurt each other. Yeah, like you know, even

(15:31):
if they're the sparring in the class, like you know, you're still especially
with kids, you know, inmy classes anyway, we put body armor
on them, shin pad's head gear, gloves, you know, and still
having control contact and like you know, make sure that they know if they
were at the age where weren't allowedto punch each other in the head,
then they just go to the bodyin the legs, you know what I

(15:52):
mean. But even if they werestriking each other in the head, it
was still very control contact. Itwasn't like all out like as if they're
hitting the bag. When they're punchinganother person they had to learn to control
and you know, keep like backall the time. Where like, you
know, from what I understand withfootball, lock too. I got one
boy there, he's fifteen or something, sixteen years old now, like I

(16:15):
mean, he's training and fighting withme at the moment, and he's apparently
quite a good football player. Youknow, he's quite well known. It's
been a football player. And he'sgot him playing against adults at times,
you know, you know, andhe's quite proud of it. Like great,
you know, good on him,you know, But like I mean,
I'm like, man, you know, you're only fifteen, sixteen years
old, you're going up against guyswho are twenty you know, twenty two

(16:37):
years old. That's yeah, Idon't know, I think that's a bit
unreasonable. You know, that wouldnever happen in amoy Thai at all.
Once I hit eighteen, Yes,then it's like eighteen and above. That's
fine, you know, but blowaideen. You know they're all like age
you know, wait that sort ofstuff. They're not and then not you

(16:57):
know, just because he's really athletic, gifted, he's encouraged to go play
with the adults. Yeah, Idon't know, I just wonder about that,
really, you know, I wouldquestion how safe that is. Yeah,
you know, you wonder where theirprincipals are with the coaches and whatnot.
You know, he showed me avideo of in one stage areas he's
running up the sideline, got closedline by this guy you know, and

(17:19):
he's hit the deck and jump backup again. He goes, see,
they can't hurt me. It's like, mate, you know, he just
got clothes line. Like geez,you know, how can you concerned about
getting brain damage to winmay Thai whenyou just you just won your last three
more type fights, you know,within the first round. You like,
I mean, you're not even gettingany damage done to you at all.

(17:41):
You know. Well, you knowhe's walking away unscathed, and he's doing
these and he's like, you know, getting semiconcussed every game. You know,
Like, you know, there's completelyknow in football that acquired brain injuries
is like a big concern, andconcussion is people getting con ushs during the
games. This is a really bigconcern and they're taking it more and more

(18:03):
seriously and in well the major leagueanyway. Yeah, well, yeah,
I think they're like a look atAmerican football, how that went and they
had to you know, checked allthat sort of stuff out with their brain
damage, and that they they gothelmets on. You know, ow guys
don't have helmets on here like Imean, you know, they're incredible athletes

(18:23):
and it's a you know, it'sa very exciting sport and everything is nothing
wrong with it. That's their sport. That's fine, you know, but
it just blows me away when peoplego, I don't go and do boxing
on way toil they get brain damage, you know, yeah, just as
much brain damage playing football, orprobably worse, I'm sure at times,

(18:44):
you know, just that it doesn'tmaybe get as much coverage maybe as what
it used to or whatever. Youknow. Do you say the kids respond
really well to the belts and thegrading. I remember once you're telling me
a cool story. I've relayed thisto people and probably to the story and
been spreading misinformation. But are youtelling you about how the colored belts was

(19:04):
like a Western invention? Is that? Is that right? Yeah? Well
That's what I've been told anyway,Like you know, the colored belt system,
Like what happened was you know,the the Americans or whatever went to
career or Japan or whatever, andthey've looked around the room and seen all
these different colored belts, but basicallythey are all a white belt and just

(19:25):
slowly never got washed because that wasa big thing. You never were We're
never allowed to wash your belt.You know, you encourage to wash your
gear, but never wash your belt. So over time your belt eventually changes
color, you know, and theneventually, after a while it just becomes
black, you know, you know, just burn worn all the time.
And I suppose burn sweated on themfrom filth, from just sweat, grime,

(19:51):
blood tears. Yeah, you knowwork. That's a real product of
your work, right, yes,you know, And that was that was
how it used to be done yearsago. It was like that guy was
a black, but well this meanshe's been training longer than everybody else.
Ye, and like you know,to a point, yeah it is.
But like you know, the wholeconcept of giving out belts and different colored
belts and stuff, that's a realsort of American sort of or westernized,

(20:15):
you know. And you see withthe colors, I think they do kind
of progressively get darker from white asyou go down. You know, it's
brown. His belt's almost complete filthnow, it's black all right, Yeah,
you know, great people. Yeah, you know, it's very different
way Tight doesn't really sort of havegratings. But like now with how things

(20:37):
are gone, you know, gratinghas become a much more higher emphasis in
it because maybe at times, youknow, muy tie gyms are realizing that
not everybody wants to fight, youknow, but they want to the fitness
and they like to learn the liketo do the spar and whatever, you
know, but they don't necessarily wantto fight. So like I mean when
Whim sort of taught me, hehad a system in place there, but

(21:03):
it was very much fighting based,you know, right, you know he
trains for so long. Now gohave a fight, train for so long.
Now you have another fight, trainingfor someone, have another fight.
Oh you've had four or five fights. Well that's what level you're at,
number four, you know, okaysort of stuff. That's how he used
to do it, you know.But yeah, like and that that's just
his own personal concept of it,you know. But the entire land,

(21:26):
it is no sort of Graating's bloodybelts wing over there as the ones you
went in in the ring. Youknow, so you've you've trained in Australia
and you've trained in Thailand, andhave you trained in the Philippines as well?
Yeah, I trained in the Philippinesfor this. For this, you
know, I went there for liketwo weeks and trained in Philippines there and

(21:48):
that it wasn't too bad that alot of went to Cebu and trained in
a dossi peris, which was likeunder a guy called Kakoi Knetti. He's
dead and but he was. Yeah, he was a really interesting guy to
train with and train under. Hewas a bit of a legend in Sabu

(22:08):
and like he supposedly had two hundreddeath matches and survived them all. You
know, what are death matches tothe well, this is a thing like
you know, when I started trainingwith him, they're going, oh,
yes, he said, two hundreddeath man. Like this guy's like ninety
years old. You know. Heonly come out and sort of would do
stuff very occasionally. But I wasmainly training with a guy called John Mack,

(22:30):
which was one of his sort oflike instructor type things, you know.
And but yeah, every now andagain Kako had come out and he
comes sort of waddling out with he'slike two carly sticks like leaning on him,
like he's like a walking stick,and he just randomly pick anybody up
and starts sparring with them and thislike this totally just embarrass them, making

(22:51):
his day. And I'm like,that was nothing. You know. They
looked like they going one hundred milesan hour and he just looks like he's
going super slow and just throwing themand blocking their sticks and everything. But
like they said, they said twohundred death matches, and I thought wow.
Initially I thought, wow, it'sso cool, and I thought,
hang on, this guy's killed twohundred people. You're kidding me. The
psycho well, you know, andthen I sort of started talking, what

(23:12):
do you mean by death matches?You know, they've gone, oh,
you don't actually kill people. It'slike you fight until either they give in
or they say, like you know, they go that's it, you win.
You know what I mean? Okay, you take them down to the
point where you would be able tokill them, and they go, that's
it, you win done. Youknow, we kill two hundred people.

(23:33):
You know, it's like, mygod, you know, I've seen these
they call a dog fight when Iwas over in the Philippines and there are
dog fights. When they'll get twoguys they come out and they tie their
wrists together so you know, theycan't get away from each other, take
their shirts off, so they've onlygot locked their gee pants on and they

(23:56):
have a Carli stick each and theygo right fight. And these guys just
get stuck into it, you know, and they're just flogging each other with
a Carli stick and no hands aretied together, so they can't get away.
And they first goes to one,he loses, you know, and
there's no time living on this.They just stand there and cop, you
know, just cop it like unbelievable. You know, they're going, oh

(24:18):
you want to have a go.It's like, no way. I'm very
happy watching thank you. I don'tknow about the Philippines, but I had
to go sparring with some locals inThailand and the just just the weather kicked
my ass before the fighters did.It's just so humid. It's just and
they're just like it's a bit ofan overcar stay for them. It's actually

(24:40):
probably a little cold. I'm dyingfrom the heat. It's very different lock.
I mean, I was quite surprisedwhen I went to the Philippines entirely
and locker. I mean I didn't. I didn't really sort of feel the
heat that much, to be honest. When I was training and and Thailand
was great, Like I mean thetraining, like you know, we went
sent you a noise camp, whichhe's passed away now unfortunately, but like

(25:03):
we went training his camp and you'retraining along side of like you know Rougi
Dame champions and you know Limpenni Championwhatever and and like which is pretty cool.
And then like I got the spa, a guy he was former Rogi
Dam champion or a spar with him. You know, it's just great fun.
Like you know, you think,wow, and there's such nice guys

(25:26):
too, like you know, theycould absolutely annihilate you, but they just
sort of play and the chair abit of a game and every now and
again, like it was, Iused he showed me some techniques this guy
did and I actually used him backon him when we were sparring, and
instead of getting annoyed with me,he got so excited because I could you
know, oh wow, you're verygood. It was like he was absolutely

(25:47):
ecstatic about it. He feel itwas so cool because I used his technique
back on him and got him withit. It's pretty good. It's good
fun training over there. You getyou getting with the right people and stuff.
It's it's a funny thing about aboutfighters, like the really good fighters
that i'd met through just just throughnetworking through it at your gym too,

(26:07):
Like just they're not what you'd expect, Like they are the nicest, most
humble, down to worth kind kindof people you could you can imagine to
meet, and you expect them tobe like full of ego and testosterone and
Drew like I'm a fighter. Butyou know, you think about people like

(26:29):
like Luke and Kine that were aroundforever, those guys at your gym,
some of the nicest blokes ever,but they could kick your ass if you
did anything wrong, but they didn't, I think too. I mean it's
part of sometimes like the discipline inthe gym, I guess as well,
like you know, and the thingof keeping everybody humble. You know,

(26:49):
everyone's had to start somewhere, youknow, and it's not you know,
if they forget where they come from, then that's when they get into trouble,
you know what I mean. Iknow you hear these things are like
steel sharp and steel and all thissort of stuff. You know, they're
there for what You've got to gotrain with better guys and you all the
time better guys and you all thetime. Well yeah, but like I

(27:11):
mean, at the same time,if you're trying to build a gym or
you want to give back, likeI mean, you know, you can't
go ahead and do that all thetime. And like if you're limited as
in like like here in Lismore,for example, we're limited with how many
people we have or whatever in thearea. So like I mean, the
guys get up to a certain pointwhere they're fighting and fighting quite well,

(27:32):
and you go all like, now, the best way to improve you is
to improve the guys that are comingthrough. So therefore that makes you think
more. It makes you, youknow, show them where you're getting them,
show them how to stop you fromdoing this. That makes you lift
your game, you know, andlike you know, instead of just going,
ah, I can beat everybody inhere, I'll go somewhere else and

(27:52):
find somewhere better to train. Youknow. It's like, man, it's
this. Yes, it's a prettypoor attitude to have, I think,
you know, but some people arejust you know, something they forget where
they come from sometimes, you know. But you know, also being a
fighter you have to be pretty selfishthough too, because you know, you've
got to be pretty self orientated.You know, you have to be you
know, fighting comes first, ortraining comes first, and everything else comes

(28:15):
second, you know what I mean. So, like I mean sometimes you
have to be very selfish as well. But like, yeah, it's a
bit of a fine fine line,I think sometimes. But I didn't see
much in the way big egos orguys that you considered to be tough guys
at the gym showing off or Inever heard of anyone from your gym going
down to the pub on a Saturdaynight looking to pick a fight to show

(28:37):
off. No, this was themain I think. It depends on sometimes
the gym's I guess as well,you know, and what they try,
and like, you know, likeI always got told there at one stage,
I said, if you you can'thave a nice group of guys,

(28:59):
if you want fighters, you know, you've got to have a bunch of
rough, you know, meatheads.It's like, nah, I don't,
I don't think that's right. Youknow, the rough meatheads mate, they're
the ones that are undisciplined. They'rethe ones that have got no golf control.
You know, they're the ones thatyou know, they really need to
come and train, and train properlyand take it seriously. It's not a

(29:21):
place for you. You know,the guys out there in the street losing
his temper, punching on with someoneelse. That's just an undisciplined thug.
That's not that's not a fighter.A fighter has the discipline and control so
they can step in the ring andturn it on and turn it off.
Once you step out of the ring, then that's it. It's finished.
You know, all the emotion,all the emotional elements of it and everything
that's all gone. You know.The thing of like street fighting and stuff

(29:45):
like that. I tell all theboys in my gym, you go fight
in the street, don't come backhere. I'm uninterested in training straight fighters.
I train fighters that fight in thering and they fight professionally, or
they'll just take that energy and putit into their opponent and the ring.
That's the way they need to doit. Yeah. But yeah, I
think some places don't sort of careabout that. They'll you know, like
my guys aren't saying some of themhaving blues in the street and stuff like

(30:07):
that and got in trouble. Butlike I mean, when we sort of
looked into it, you know,camera wized security cameras and the police and
whatnot. Yeah, my guy wasin the right, so like got one
hundred percent go to court and backing. They wanted no problem at all.
Most of my guys, if theyhave got in trouble like that, then
they've been either like you know,okay, don't do it again, and

(30:29):
you know, basically that's about it. One guy looked like he was going
to go away for six months.They were talking about doing that to him
bit and like, I mean,it was just an absolute joke. He
defended himself, defended his girlfriend andlike and later on when it sort of
all come out, yeah he washe was cleared of it. Like he
did some damage. He put theguy in hospital, but like you know,
it was the guy basically he hadno choice. It's just how it

(30:55):
goes down. But yeah, streetfighting and fighting in the ring I think
are two completely different thing. Andthe people that fight in the street don't
necessarily should fight in the ring,you know, or will either. Well,
it's it's a sport with rules.And it's a skill set. But
then the skill set that you getin the cage or the ring, then
that how transferable is that to theto the street? Yeah, Like I

(31:18):
mean the concepts of controlling distance andawareness and situational awareness and stuff for sure,
Like you need that in the ring, you need that in the cage,
you need it on the street.The concept of learning how to hit
and hit hard, especially on thestreet, it's done deal. But learning
to control your temper and control thesituation, you know, that also happens

(31:41):
in the ring. You're learning howto you lose your temper in the ring
is when said you lose the fight. That's as simple as that. You
can't afford to do that. AndI've had whim to the point make me
just see Red and like this,lose my temple with him and go after
him like a rabid dog and thenhe just laughs his head off at the
end that this hits me as haras your bloody can because you just need

(32:01):
to there get you lost already,you know. It's like but like you
know, yeah, the yeah,the transference from ring fighting to street fighting,
though it's a it's a different mindsetto like, you know, ring
fighting. You know, there's noone's going to stomp on your head or
you know, you know, youknow you've got to judge or a referee

(32:23):
that's going to if you do getknocked out, they're going to step in
and go that's it's finished. Youknow you're not going to get You're not
going to have someone's mates jumping ontop of you and kicking you while you're
down. When I used to compete, it never ended in my mind that
I might get hurt. You know, like you just go in there and
just do what you want to doand that's it. You wouldn't lose a

(32:43):
drawer goal. That's how it is, you know. But like I mean,
the the in the street and whenI've done lot of security and stuff,
was like, wow, you knowthis is it's a it's a much
different mindset. If you grab someonedoing security on the street and it's possibly
more than one guy there, youwant to make sure you got a hold
of this guy and you're taking abouttaking down heart Like I mean, it's

(33:07):
just a different mindset definitely to whatit is in the ring. Because you
work security for a long time,so I guess have you worked in rough
venues where you've seen seen a bitof trouble. Oh look, I don't
I don't think the venues that areworked in were that rough to be honest.
But like I mean, on thestatistics wise of things, like you

(33:28):
know, Lismore was just a littletiny sort of country town, but like
I mean, statistically was the pubsthat we worked in were in the ten
Taste ten top most violent pubs inNew South Wales. Oh wow, yeah,
you wonder how they've worked their statisticsout. But like you know,
yeah we had we had you know, punch ones and all that sort of

(33:50):
stuff, and you know, quiteregularly we have brawls where you were twenty
thirty guys in a brawl or whatever, you know, But like, yeah,
statistically it was one of the topten most violent pubs in New South
Wales. At one stage it wasrated. But like you sort of think,
yeah, oh, you know,I've seen people get bottled and whatnot,
Like you know, it's pretty vicious. Some of that sort of stuff

(34:12):
that's there coming out the pub thatwe worked end up going plastic, no
no glass anywhere. At one stagewe had plastic plastic cups and stuff.
They'd given them kens but that wasabout it. Look, do you think
overall it's well becoming a more dangerousplace or a less dangerous place? Do
you think? I think it's justvery different now, Like I mean,

(34:35):
when I was, when I wasgoing out as a kid, like younger,
like ninety eight, a sort ofthing. If someone wanted to have
a fight or whatever, it'd beright, okay, you may mate,
let's go outside, you know,and that'll be it to be no mates
jumping in or anything like that.If anything, they their mates had come
along and make sure no one elsestepped in. And then if you know,

(34:55):
someone did go down to the groundand dominantly was nearly it was finish,
you know, it was it stepback, get out, they're letting
get up, shake hands. That'sit done. Mate, off we gay
Well you hate each other for therest of them, you know. That's
about it. But like I mean, now it's I certainly don't want to
sound bad towards UFC, because UFCcertainly changed the outlook of martial arts.

(35:19):
But I think with the induction introductionof the UFC and watching people get ground
and pounded and stomped on certainly haschanged the mindset of people as what's a
what a cool thing to do isyou know what I mean? Like I
mean, like you know, peoplegetting their head stomped on certainly was an
occurrence before UFC ever happened. Butlike I mean, the thing of like

(35:45):
guys wanting to continue a fight onthe ground now and then continue to punch
and kick someone while they're on theground is probably i'd say more relevant because
they see it on TV sometimes,you know what I mean, and they
see some of their maybe heroes onthe UFC or whatever doing that to other
people go, yeah, that's whatthat's that's the thing to do. You
know, it goes down continuing atgrend and pound. But you know,

(36:07):
those guys are professional fights, aregetting paid to do that. They're not
going to if they kill someone orwhatever, then you know, unfortunately that's
part and past with the game.But like I'm in on the street and
they lay, that's a different scenario. You kill someone, go yeah,
I mean, a street fight isa completely different beast to to even even
a cage fight, which has itsown set of rules. And I guess

(36:30):
a street fight you said would normallylast for a lot shorter time, right,
that's normally done and dusted within thirtyto sixty seconds. Is that it?
Yeah, most of them I've seenor even you know, had anything
to do with, they're all overin a couple of seconds. Mostly,
even though sometimes I might feel likeit goes for ages. It's all done
like, you know, one minute. But the most sort of thing unless

(36:52):
sometimes you know, like you getreally big brawls and the way like you
got multiple people and you end upwith my ultiple fights popping up there like
little fires like pop up all overthe place being bang bang, you know.
Then that sometimes can go on forlike half an hour, twenty minutes.
Sometime we're like, I mean,then you're just forever just chasing light
here fight there like a fire andchasing a fire, you know, as

(37:14):
it jumps from tree to tree.Most most street altercations that I've seen or
had anything to do with, likemostly all over in a couple of seconds.
It's not like a big long,sort of thrown out e vent insaying
that day, Like, I mean, I have had the situation where we've
had to take people down at theclub and out the footpath. You know,

(37:34):
you take him to the ground andhe's recently a big guy and I've
got him in an arm lock,and they go just hold him there.
Cops turn up, Like mate,twenty minutes later, I'm still holding the
guy there, and he's like tryingto bite me at whatt So just don't
bite me, mate, luck?Come on, you know, I'm locking
and keeping there, you know,until the cop has turned up. Oh
you got him? Yea, yeah, I got him. It's all right,
but jeez, you know, comeon, how much longer we're going
to be How would you deal withit? Then? From a security efective,

(38:00):
so you're you're working security in apub, there's a brawl breaking out
with ten more people fighting. Fromwhat I understand of security guys, that'd
say, well, first we're notgoing to be in too much of a
hurry to get there because we wantthem to soften each other up first.
So they're like, I don't wantto get hit. Oh yeah, how
do you deal with that? Mate? You know you normally we always used

(38:22):
to work in pairs, so like, I mean, you know, you'd
have even though you might have tentwelve guys in there doing security, everyone
sort of has their sort of partnerthat they work with, so like,
I mean, when something like thathappens we are normally, you've got different
sectors and stuff as well as thepub. So, like I mean,
certain guys will handle certain areas andif something breaks out there, they go

(38:44):
and deal with it. But yeah, the main thing is if you've got
for us anyway, when we hadmultiple fights going on, the best thing
is you just got to start grabbingthem and then slowly dragging them out,
you know what I mean, andtrying to you know, the fuse a
hole situation, it's like a submissionwhole kind of thing you're putting them in,
or just you know, sometimes justan arm up behind the back.

(39:07):
Sometimes it's as simple as just grabthe guy and throw him away and tell
him, you know, to getout, and that's it. He's gone.
You have to sort of like assessthe situation on the fly really,
so, like I mean, it'sa very what's to say, like reactionary
type thing. You know, yousee two guys punching on it, and
you obviously have to Normally, ifyou grab one, the other guy sort

(39:27):
of steps back and doesn't do anysort of you're trying to work assess who
started it normally grabbed the guy thatstarted it normally the other bloke's quite happy
to not ha aything to do withit, right, You've saved him and
they sort of like quite happy withthat, so you know. But yeah,
this depends what's going down sometimes.But if you have it, like
a good group of guys to workwith and everyone's wort of works together pretty
well, it's not too bad.For for someone who's never had had the

(39:52):
pleasure, how would you explain tothem what getting punched in the face is
like in a fight. I mean, I've experienced it more times than I
care to admit. But for anyonewho hasn't, Oh, mate, you
know, if you get jam yourthumb on the car door, it's a
bit like being punched in the face. I suppose it's like it just depends

(40:14):
I guess who hit you as well. But like you know, no one
likes being punched in the face,simple as that. Even if you know
you get different guys go yeah,I don't care. It's like, yeah,
no one likes being punched in theface. See you've done. You've
picked a very dangerous kind of occupationto want to do to like say,

(40:35):
yeah, I'm going to go intoone of the top ten most violent pubs
according to someone's rating and and worksecurity. There you can stand toe to
toe with someone inside a cage whowho intends to knock you out, regardless
of whether they like you or don'tlike you. Does that scare you?
Do? You do? You feelscared before a fight? Not so much
fear sometimes when you're going into competein the ring or anything, but like

(41:00):
there's a doubt there. You havedoubts come in your head. You have
all these doubts like jeez, whatI'm doing? You know? But you
just got to have faith in yourtraining and your coach, and you really
do have to have a bit ofself belief in yourself that you can go
through and do it. But likeI mean, once you get in there,
it's not and you realize it's notas bad as he thought it would

(41:22):
be, especially like fighting. Butlike I think everyone's scared. Like I
mean, you're scared to a point, you know for sure. If you're
not scared, especially coming into afight, like I've had fires, you'd
sit there and go how are youfeeling and going, oh, yeah,
I'm fine, I'm fine, youknow, and you go, well,
I need you to be nervous,you know, I need you to be
a little bit scared, you know, because that's going to start and stimulate

(41:45):
the fight of flights, you knowscenario. You know, like you need
that even go into the ring.If you go into the ring too calm
and relaxed, you know you're notgoing to get start going till probably halfway
through the second round, but it'sthe time you're already lost half the fight.
Sometimes you need the guy it's doneright from the start, so he's
firing straight away. When you're workingin security and every single time you go

(42:07):
to throw someone out, like mepersonally, every single time you go throw
someone out is a bit like,Wow, what's going to happen here?
We don't know. Hopefully there's noknives involves. Hopefully here he comes out
quietly. Hope he doesn't try andfucking throw a bottle at me or something.
You know, at times, it'ssort of like I wouldn't say adrenaline
rush, but like it's exciting,but it's also scary at the same time.

(42:29):
Ring competition and stuff like that,to a point you nearly sort of
feel like there's no real need toget too concerned because the rest is going
to step in and stop it.But like I mean, it still has
that. No one likes to getbeaten up. No one likes to get
bashed up at any but sometimes Ithink a lot of people do. Also.
It's a mental thing of not wantingto get beaten, and who cares

(42:52):
about being beaten? If you're thereto improve yourself, you know what I
mean, not to If you wantto get the trophy, let's go to
the shop and buy one. It'sa lot easier if that's all you concerned
about. Don't bother with. Asfar as I'm concerned, it's all about
improving yourself and learning to control yourselfand get your own focus and stuff like

(43:14):
that. If you beat the guy, great, that's a bonus. No
one wants to lose. No onegoes in there with the intention of,
great, I'm going to lose thisfight. Yeah, no one wants to
do that. Everyone wants to win. But if you put the pressure on
you to win, I'll tell them, my God's just go in there and
fight. That's it. Go thereand fight the guy. If you're beating,
great and come back with a strategyand we'll come back. Work in

(43:35):
the corner, and off you go. Try and implement it and if you
win the fight, great, Ifyou get beaten, still great. You
still learned something out of it.We can go back to the gym and
work on something and come back doit again. If you're wanting to just
go in there and win every singlefight and get trophies along the wall.
I don't know of anyone that's everwon one hundred percent of their fights professional

(43:58):
or AMNA, and mostly guys thathave go on to win titles and stuff,
they're just persistent. They get itbecause they want to win that title.
They get that because that's their focus, not to go in and win
every single fight, because their focusis to win say a state title or
an Australian title. Theyn't care aboutwinning or losing every fight. How many

(44:19):
fights? So I need to winto get that title. You need to
win, so at least eight outof six before you can have a shot.
All right, So that's my goal, the win last eight fights.
One lost me first six, WellI've got to I gotta win the next
couple, you know what I mean. That's how it should be. It's
not about winning all the fights oranything. You know. I have so
much respect for fighters that can goin and lose and then come back.

(44:45):
I mean, it's got to beeasy to step back in after you've had
a win or two. I'm winningthis, this is no problem. I
mean, it's it's the guys thathave lost a couple of losses in a
row and still get up and goin. And I've got so much respect
for that because that's that's staring fearin the face and saying no, I'm

(45:07):
going to do it anyway in myeyes. And that's what a true fighter
is. If they take that attitude, they'll take that attitude and they can
amply it to life in general.Things won't go their way in life,
but they still continue to keep going, you know what I mean. You
keep trying. You come back andyou do it again, or you keep
trying to move on with your life. And that's one thing which I think

(45:29):
too with boxing and muay Thai andeverything, is like you really need to
Okay, you have a fight,you get beaten, you feel like shit
for a couple of days, butthen you just get on and move on
and do it again. And it'sthe same application in life. Like I
man, you know, you getmarried, it doesn't work out, Say
what take it when it taken onthe chin, move on, get married

(45:50):
again. What you're going to do? You go through your life and go,
I'm never ever been married again?Not can do it whatever again?
You know, you know, likeI mean, you got to go and
do the same thing with the fightingthe same you know. It's I think
it teaches people are really good attitudeto have. You know, you lose
a job or you suck it up. Okay, it sucks, but like
I mean, you know, you'llgo get another job, go for another
one then and more. It's fightingis the same. You lose the fight,

(46:14):
Okay, fine, go have anotherfight, And it's up to you
whether you choose to do that ornot. You can quit all together and
not do it again, or youcan go well okay or fight is not
for me. But I'm going tocontinue to train because I really like the
training, because it's a very veryhonest sport boxing, kickboxing, tie boxing
and probably even Brazil jiujitsu know thatbrings out the real person. It brings

(46:35):
out real honesty in them, andif they're not going to be really honest
with themselves, then they realize thatthey're not being honest with other people either.
And eventually that that'll come through.That comes through in the end,
you sort of will seep out allthe wannabes and all they're like, I'm
so great, check me out,look at me? Who's looking at me?
And eventually that guy sort of slowlyfades away because people are going to

(46:57):
stop looking at you eventually, Likethe guy's just sitting there salely chippin' away,
chip and away, training hard asa fight, loses a comeback and
wins the fight, loses that nextfight, wins the next fight. He's
the guy that's going to be stillthere at the end of the ten years
or whatever it is, and theguy's going to be a flash in the
pan. I love that mindset andI love that that's the kind of lesson

(47:19):
that you can learn through training andmaybe fighting if that's what you want to
do, to just that resilience andthat grit to just pick up and keep
going. I remember I knew aboutthis guy in Melbourne who'd opened a business
that was doing really, really well, and people just said, oh,
yeah him, I know, Iknew him before. He's had like six

(47:39):
businesses that have failed, and saidit like the guy was a loser and
I thought the guy's actually amazing.He's failed six times in business, his
seventh one has opened and he's kickinghuge goals. Good on him, Good
on him for getting up and gettingback in there and giving it another crack.
Yeah exactly, mate, I said. I mean that the mindset of

(48:00):
you just don't give up. That'sit, keep going. I remember my
uncle, he was in the SpecialForces and stuff. He's in the first
Australian commando unit produced and he wasalways like, you know, you just
do what you've got to do,and he said, you've got to finish.
Its simple as that. You can'tget knocked down and not get it
back up again. You just gotto What other options do you have?
So he said you can't. Hewould have took that option. When you're

(48:22):
in your guinea obvious you never goingto come back. He said, you
you got to just get up andkeep going. The matter what happens more
tie, and that it'll develop thatpeople will see it with like my tie
coach always sort of said to me, So I can, he said,
I can teach people to be aggressive. I can teach people to be angry,
aggressive, violent, So I cantrain them to do that. You

(48:43):
don't have to be a violent personto teach you to be violent. He
said, I can do that topeople, but I can't give them that
mindset of keep going. No matterwhat he said, that's in you or
it's not. Whether that's true,I don't know. I think maybe this
develops over time. But yes,it's one of them things. I think.
You know, people they seem todo it, or they don't,
don't they. Yeah, I lovethe fact in my tie that they've actually

(49:04):
got that. That isn't it.Isn't it a rule? You have to
keep on moving forward all the time. It's going back. It's a very
yeah, well depends on it dependson where you're trained to and who trains
you. But dominantly and when thescoring side of things go, like,
definitely you must be traveling forward.Different guys I trained with Whin was a
bit like, yeah, go in, hit, move, hit and move.
Don't have to stand there and tradepunches left, right and center all

(49:28):
the time. And then you takeour JUNCHI our junch I was like,
no, no, walk forward,did not move back. You always go
forward, forward, forward. Becausehe's coming from like a military background,
you know, and everything, andhe said that any combat, sport,
any combat, he said, throughoutthe world. He said, if you
were in an army, you mustbe moving forward. If you're moving back,
you're getting beaten. He said.You must be going forward. You

(49:49):
must go forward. If you're movingbackwards in the fight, you're getting beaten.
So he said, you're either movingforward. He said, you move
a circle, fine, but alwaysforward, always go forward. Yeah,
it's just interesting, different mindsets,different sort of strategies. Well, UFC
they score people on how much controlthey've had of the of the ring,
and that's isn't a You get ahigher score if you're controlling the center of

(50:09):
the cage, right, I thinkthey score the same as more it tied
a ten ten system and stuff likethat. Each fire has given ten points
at the start of a round,and as the fight continues, basically at
the end of that round, whoeverlooks like they dominated the fight the most
guess ten. The other guy mightget nine or eight, depends on how
badly he went. So like here, I think definitely controlling the center of

(50:32):
the ring or the center of thecage gives the appearance of dominance anyway,
and it certainly looks like you're makingthe other guy move a lot more and
run away from you and everything else. But you look at some of those
fights, like even on the onechampionship there where, like I think al
Madjunika from Australia she fought stamp FairTaxIs quite a while ago now and stamp

(50:55):
Fairtechs won it, and sort oflike when I first watched, I thought,
wow, I thought Alma Junica onethat you know, she sort of
took it up a lot more andit was certainly a lot more aggressive,
and Stamps seemed to be moving awayfrom her. But when you sort of
sit back and watch it, youStamp with more accurate they were the strikes
when she was countering, Like AlmaJunicus, she was landing a lot more

(51:15):
technique and stuff on the target.They're the refereeing and judging and everything.
They're like they're dominally if you're controllingthat center and moving forward, you're winning
basically. Yeah, a lot ofthe motivational stuff, for I guess cage
fighters often probably probably Boxes and everyoneelse to it says, don't leave the
decision up to the judges, finishthe fight yourself. Yeah, sometimes though

(51:40):
you know you can't always go fora knockout doesn't always happen, or you
can't give submission it doesn't happen.I always sort of tell them why guys
don't go out there looking for aknockout, because if they, if they
do it there start like slinging forthe hills and power loading everything up right
from the start, and sometimes that'snot always a good thing to do.
You're much much much better off havinga light strike land and throw a heavy

(52:04):
punch and have it miss. Yeah, like I mean, you know,
you're much better off, you know, I think anyway, Look, you
know, going accumulating your points,get your points, and a knockout will
come from that. You'll start andwear the guy down. You'll see opportunities
for it, and then yeah,you know, pick your shots and then
man, let something hard go everynow and again, and you get the
opportunity to knock him out. Thenyou know, you get him injured or

(52:27):
whatever, keep chopping white at thatlead leg and eventually you've seen he's seeing
what folder you start limp on itor whatever. Grady is hurtain now and
get on him after that. Butif you go out there straight up guns
blaze and trying to load everything upright, from the start, and it's
it's pretty easy to tell stuffs comingat you. Some people, I guess
want to look more flashy and lookcool, and there's a superman punch actually

(52:50):
an effective thing. I know,I know it looks cool jumping in the
air and punching someone. I don't. Oh yeah, when I used to
compete in karate, I used topull it off quite often because I was
left handed, So like I madeit, don't be front kick and jump
over top and punch the guy inthe face. And I was doing them
before anyone called it a superman punched. But like I mean, I had
no idea. We just used todo it quite a bit. But it

(53:14):
definitely works. Certainly a tricky moveto pull off. I remember you're telling
me that doesn't take that much powerto knock someone out, right, If
you get hitting the jaw in theright place, then you don't actually need
like a super powerful punch to haveyou actually go unconscious. Well, I

(53:34):
don't think you have to be likesuper stronger to knock someone out. If
you've got good technique and good timingand accuracy, then you can certainly knock
the guy out. The smaller theguy, the more technical and smart he
has to be. If you geta big hundred kilo guy, he doesn't
have to be technically gifted to knockyou out. You know, he just

(53:55):
throws a big haymaker at your headand if he hit you, you'll probably
drop your simple as that. Ifyou take the say seventy kilo go I
fight and one hundred kilo go seventykilo guy can still knock that hundred kilo
guy out, but he just hasto be a bit more accurate and a
bit more smarter when he does it. The technique I think is technique speed
and then power comes last. That'show it should be focused on. And

(54:16):
if you keep that down papped,then you should be pretty all right.
You know, you land something,it should should go okay. When I'm
watching UFC, it seems like everysecond fighter is a combination of muy Thai
and jiu jitsu. That's like themost common combination out there. Is that
still? Is that? Still youthink the dominant way that they do it

(54:37):
well? One stay is definitely Moutaiwas the dominant stand up art in UFC.
But I think now like other styleslike karate have come through and boxing
have come through and people are startingto realize it's not really one specific art
that's the best. I think it'sjust depends on the individual that's doing it.

(54:58):
Some people can make you know,muyti work from Some people can make
karate work for him. If someonecome to me and said, look,
if I'm going to go on acage for what he suggests I do,
I'd say, definitely moy thie andreserve jujitsu. I wouldn't be bothered to
go and be boxing rounding. Tobe honest, moy Tie's got to covers
clinching, covers all the range ofstand up fighting, and then you know,

(55:19):
it's just if you're open minded enough, you can see the opportunities to
work the takedowns and continue to strikehim from the ground. You know,
I can see the advantage that thatboxers have though, in that a fast
punch is going to be a fastkick every time. Right, Yeah,
I don't know. Like I mean, man, you got you throw a
kick, biggest muscles in your body, biggest bone in your body. You

(55:42):
know you're going after a punch.Yeah, I'm a real fan of if
he punches your kicking, right,If he's kicking, then punching being on
the receiving end of a kick whenyou throw on a punch at someone.
Jeez, I don't know. Ithink the kick wins, you know,
yeah, in speed and power.Definitely in power, yeah, but maybe

(56:07):
not in speed. They're not inspeed sometimes, but this depends on that
time. If they've got good timingyear, they'll catch you a lot with
a kid. What was the whatwas the fighting stung in the Philippines.
I know they've got their own oneover there. This basically in the Philippines
is they just call like Filipino martialarts, so like it goes under three
sort of common names of Arnisa,Screamer or Carli, so they're are three

(56:32):
different names. But basically it's frommy understanding anyway, it's Carlie was the
original name. And then they gotinvaded by the Spanish, and the Spanish
sort of saw them doing their Filipinomartial arts, and of course a guy
called Lappa Lapo killed Magellan. Ithink it was on the beaches when they

(56:53):
invaded them in Cubu, and sothe Spanish abandoned. But when they saw
it, they call it a screamer. That's a Spanish word apparently, and
because they looked at it and theycall it a screamer and that that then
for like that period of time whenthey were sort of there, that's sort

(57:14):
of like what have become known as. And then later on the after it
got band and stuff, they startedto hide the art in a dance because
originally krli doesn't have a have akrta like karate or anything. It's a
fighting system, you know, andI think a scream is pretty similar.
It doesn't really have a carter.It has a fighting fighting system teaches techniques

(57:37):
and you know, concepts. Sowhat's the car what's it like a carter?
You know? Like karate has apatterns or forms you know? Okay,
Like is that like the fixed positionsthat you're standing. Yeah, like
they have you know, you doa lo a down block and re bruse
punch. It's a set set ofmoves that could be twelve moves in a

(58:00):
h form pattern and they call thata krta KARATEI call it a carta you
taipe and go call it poms,I think they call them in Originally Karli
in the Philippines had no carts,no forms. They teach concepts and fighting
system basically, and then a Screamerwas very similar. And then Arnice came

(58:21):
along because the Filipino still wanted topractice their martial arts. So like they
started to put into a dance.So they'd have the stick and they put
into a dance and they're different movesand so on with it, and their
empty handed techniques would be put looklike a dance. So therefore they started
to create a form akrta. Thereforethe concept of nice. If you get

(58:43):
taught Arnice, Arnie has a katain it. The arniece means dancing or
something. If you learned the originalsystem, it's called Cali and it doesn't
have a krta in it. Ifyou learn a scream it doesn't have karta
in it. But if you learnArnice or the modern Arnee, that has
a carter in it. But theyhad the system I trained with Dossi Perez

(59:05):
system, so like I mean theyhave it's called twelve forms. Basically,
twelve different masters came together and theyall had their own specialty and then basically
they created the Dossi Perez system.I mean that was it was quite good
as interesting the training with them anddoing fun. You know, they have
they do have carda. They werein that so they can buy one a

(59:27):
few things together. Capewerra got verypopular at one stage, and it was
I think a lot of people weredoing that actually just as much for the
fitness as the fighting side of it, right yeah, probably, Like I
mean, they look but it looksI've never done capuare, but it looks
very athletic, like he's doing cartwheelsand handstands and stuff like that. I
had a couple of young boys trainingwith me at one stage and they're doing

(59:49):
mouy Thai with me, and they'redoing capauare and bay and bay. And
then they had a big like agrading or something happening on the Gold Coast
at Rabina, and they invited meto go out look at it. So
I went up and had a look, and man, that was really impressive.
They're so athletic and the powerful kicks, like man, you know,
it's surprising that you know, youdon't see that sort of stuff like in

(01:00:14):
UFC or whatever. You think,like, you know, if someone could
jolly come along with a couple ofthem kicks or whatever, let them loose,
like jeez, I don't know,be pretty well locome stuff there.
It's definitely gives people well, youknow, nice and fit looking anyway,
But that there was a couple ofBrazilian master looking guys up there had pretty

(01:00:36):
big bellies on them. They're stilldoing cartwheels and everything, you know,
good on them. It was quitesurprising. Oh, it looks cool,
is it. Is it as effective? If it's not in the UFC,
then maybe it's not really as effectivefighting style. Yeah, I don't know.
Look, I mean it it certainlylooks very powerful, like you know,
those kicks and some of the sweepsand stuff they do, and and

(01:01:00):
yeah, I don't know. Iguess, like you know, every martial
art has to be practical somewhere alongthe line or at some time, and
in the in history it's been effectivesomewhere along the line, because otherwise they
wouldn't be doing it in the ringor in the cage. Whether it's going
to be that effective there, Idon't know. But yeah, like you
know, you've got plenty of socalled self defense experts who don't go and

(01:01:22):
compete in the cage or the ring, but still get employed by the government
whatever that they go train people,you know, and they've just they've never
really actually competed themselves or anything.M hmm. Opening your own opening your
own gym, that's got to be. That would be a dream for some
people to own their own fighting gym. And you've got an oppressive set up

(01:01:44):
there. I've seen it. Iknow you've moved since I've since I saw
the place. But I'll tell youis it is it? Is it good
business to get into? Has itbeen? Has it treated you well?
Well? I think I've been veryvery luck. I was very lucky to
have a little bit of like businesssort of coaching with me. One of

(01:02:08):
my students who I was actually trainingbecause I originally started the training people on
the side because I couldn't get anymuch work doing anything else, so I
thought I'd just start doing this onthe side to make a bit of money.
I started training this guy and hewas actually running business, quite successful
business here in town. And hesort of come along and he's going,

(01:02:30):
oh, look, you know.He actually said to me how much would
it cost to set up a gymand all this sort of stuff. And
I said, oh, give himan ext a minute. Goes, look,
go put a business plan together,he said, and come back and
he said, and I'll see howmuch it costs. I've been very lucky
like That's some people, I said, as whim could see something in me
that I couldn't see him myself,you know really, and this guy could

(01:02:50):
probably do the same and he's goneyet they worries. Right here you got,
there's the money they set it up. I'll give you two years to
pay me back, you know.And that was it was done. Very
lucky like that, you know.But yeah, it certainly business wise,
I couldn't complain about it really aroundhere, I think I've been very lucky
as far as that I've been inbusiness for over twenty years now here and

(01:03:13):
three floods and whatnot still going,and the local people, I think others,
I feel very lucky and very blessed. I get people to come and
train with me, you know,Like I mean, I'm no world champion
or nothing like that. I justdid really enjoy doing what I'm doing.
I think that sort of comes acrossto people, I guess, and I
really enjoy seeing people develop out ofdoing it mentally and physically. Whether they

(01:03:37):
fight a n it's irrelevant to me. It doesn't really bother you know,
it doesn't bother me. But likeyou know, it's it's always great to
see them like this develop and progresspersonally. And I've got the places around
have opened up and sort of gonein competition against me, and that's fine,
like good luck to them, LikeI don't have any problem with that.

(01:03:58):
That's inevitable. Other place has goneto open up. One of the
best information I ever got given tome was, you know, in business
this mind your own business. That'sit. Don't worry about what the competition
is doing. Is put your headdown, do your thing, and keep
going with it. And I've sortof done that, and I've just been
very lucky with it. I thinkI'm certainly not making millions and millions of
dollars out of it. Like youknow, if you want to make a

(01:04:20):
lot of money, I wouldn't adviseyou going into a martial arts not the
sort of place you're going to makemillions of dollars with, like you might
if you're lucky enough to get someoneon UFC you or one championship or something.
You know, it's got more ofa personal reward than anything else.
It's it gives us enough to getby with, which isn't too bad.

(01:04:42):
Tell you what, seeing your trainpeople and seeing the transformation and people and
seeing the transformation of myself when Itrained was just was something I'll never forget.
I remember one day when I've beentraining for a while, walking down
the street and there was this reallyshap you look and blow standing there on
the footpath, and I guess Ididn't think about it till after I walked

(01:05:03):
past him, and the old memight have crossed the road out of just
concern, like he wasn't doing anything, but he looked really dodgy and scary,
and it was like I just Ijust didn't have that same level of
fear. I just walked past himand didn't think about it till afterwards.
It gave me a new level ofconfidence that changed my life. So I

(01:05:25):
think I'd recommend anyone trained I fightor not, it'll do so much for
you personally. And as you saidright at the start, it's more than
just kicking and punching. Yeah,mate, It's like, I mean to
see you when you come and train, and you know the changes that made
in yourself. I said, It'snot so much really about learning how to
fight or anything, but as such, the personal empowerment that you can get

(01:05:47):
out of it. There's that shything of all of a sudden, like
you make the choice of either fightingor not fighting. It's not that you
don't want to. You can makethat decision then, and if you do
get pushed into a corner, atleast you have some idea what you can
possibly do. Even like you know, you see yourself. You come in,
you got fitter as you went along, and everything, mate, it

(01:06:09):
was great that the fitness and theskill development and stuff there is awesome.
You see people getting better and yousee themself feeling good about himself and getting
that empowerment there and that confidence buildingthat it's great. I mean, there's
a lot more to them this punchingand kicking. For sure. There was
something I didn't mean to ask youtoo. I mean, I know people
are going to be curious about this, but have you ever found yourself in

(01:06:30):
a situation like out in public wheresomeone's picked a fight with you, not
knowing who you are and not knowingwhat you know? Yes, I have
absolutely, mate. We had ourincident many many years ago now, Me
and my mates were out and thisguy I started picking on one of my
mates and I can't stand bullies atthe best of times. You know,

(01:06:54):
I was bullied and stuff at schooland I can't stand bullies. I just
sort of like, you know,make the scale away leaves a line.
And we've gone outside because we said, oh come, let's get our stuff,
will go, and we've you know, he's look at a fish and
chip shop. Mate, that's whereit was. And this guy is just
an absolute goose and he's followed usoutside. And of course this guy didn't
know who I was, and mostpeople and the other in the actual place

(01:07:15):
knew, oh yeah, look out, Rod's gonna back smack. I don't
want any any trouble. Don't leaveus a lay mate. And I've walked
outside and this guy is a bigsort of glass windows at the front of
this fish and chip shop and he'slike sizing me up and carrying on,
apparently done boxing or something. AndI've got mate, just leave us a
lie go away, and he threwa punching me. I grabbed him with,

(01:07:36):
smacking him up against the glass windowwith the place and I was going
quick, guys, just go gettingthe car, and this guy like slid
down the glass like a rag doll. And he's got back up and come
back over to the car, standnext to me out of side of the
car and I've gone, mate,you know what are you doing? Mate?
You know that's enough? When hegoes, oh no, no,

(01:07:58):
he won the fight right a wrong, And I just thought, as you
just said to him, look,just stop and think about it for a
minute, mate, I said,you don't know me, said, I
don't know you. I said,I can tell you now though. I
said, like, you take onestep towards me and I'm going to kick
you right in that knee joint.It says hard as I can. So
that's going to drop you, Isaid, And I'm going to smash your
head against the door of the carbefore you hit the ground. And they
said, like, what do youwant to do? I said, OI

(01:08:20):
that I can let me and getin the car and I'm going to go
home. I said, I don'twant any problems. And he sort of
stopped thought about it for a minute, and I said, so why are
you thinking about it? Howm's goingto get a car, mate? And
I just got in the car andwe just drove off. Thank god.
You know, it's always that sortof situation, is not It's not a
nice place to be in because youjust don't know what's going to happen.
And you people go, wow,you know that was really brave or whatever

(01:08:43):
I made. I was shitting myself. You know. I didn't want any
trouble at all. You just wantfish and chips. You don't want to
fight some guy. Yeah, youknow, like jeez, I can,
but you don't want to. Theylike me in you know last he just
had been out with his mates,had a good night. You don't need
any trouble like that. Yeah.Some people are just absolutely clowns. They
just don't want to leave alone.And I'll tell you what. I'm going

(01:09:05):
to put the links to all ofyour websites and how people can get in
contact with you. I just wantto say thanks for having a chat with
me today, Rono. I doreally appreciate it. And Rod Ramsey as
the owner of Martial Arts First inliz Morete, you have had a remarkable
life, done some remarkable stuff andyou continue to do it. So I'm

(01:09:26):
going to keep in touch in touchwith you made okay, Well, thank
you very much, Jamie, Thankyou mate. Rod has such a holistic
outlook on what he does, muchmore than what you would expect someone who
trains cage fighters to have He isan interesting bloke and I love that the

(01:09:48):
lessons that you're learning in the ringor in the cage are applicable to everyday
life. It's about getting knocked downand getting back up, being persistent,
not being scared of what might happen, what could happen. And one particular
part that I really loved about Rod'sstory was that he started just training people

(01:10:10):
on the side to make a coupleof extra bucks, and then this opportunity
dropped into his lap to open hisown gym. Someone just offered to finance
it for him, And to me, that's so inspiring because no matter what
your dream is, and no matterhow far away you think it might be,
one day the opportunity to take itmight just appear. Why not build

(01:10:38):
up some good karma and help mealong by rating my show to the maximum
stars you can on the platform thatyou're listening to this on. That might
be Apple iTunes, that might beSpotify, iHeartRadio, Spreaker, any of
them. Really Thanks for listening intotoday's episode of Jamie's Club.