June 15, 2025 • 26 mins
On today’s episode of JBN New York, we take a deep dive into the impact of high-profile aviation accidents on passenger trust and industry accountability. With the recent Air India Boeing 787-8 Dreamliner crash raising fresh concerns, we explore how travelers react to such incidents and what airlines must do to restore confidence.
Joining us are best-selling author and life coach Camilla Nichols, who shares insights on the psychological effects of aviation safety concerns, and business coach & Ariel Foundation International founder Dr. Ariel King, who examines corporate responsibility in crisis management.
Together, we discuss media influence, industry responses, and how passengers can stay informed and reassured about air travel.Tune in for a thought-provoking conversation that goes beyond the headlines and into the heart of what keeps the aviation industry moving forward.
Joining us are best-selling author and life coach Camilla Nichols, who shares insights on the psychological effects of aviation safety concerns, and business coach & Ariel Foundation International founder Dr. Ariel King, who examines corporate responsibility in crisis management.
Together, we discuss media influence, industry responses, and how passengers can stay informed and reassured about air travel.Tune in for a thought-provoking conversation that goes beyond the headlines and into the heart of what keeps the aviation industry moving forward.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, what's going on you guys. This is jose Warner.
Welcome to JBN New York. I am your host, and
today we are joined with this very special segment Canilla Nicols.
She is a best selling author and the CEO of
Simple Things Cam. Welcome to the show. How are you.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Great? Thanks Joseph, How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I'm doing great, you know, happy, Happy Monday, Monday Monday.
And we also are joined by doctor Ario King. She
is the founder of the Aero Foundation International. Am I
saying that correctly? I said Aero International Foundation.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
No, thank you, mister Bonnet's Aerial Foundation International and doctor
King consulting us here.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Thank you, sir, thank you so much. So today we're
going to be talking about the Air India Flight a
I one seventy one. He was a Boeing seven eighty
seven eighth Dreamliner that crashed seconds after takeoff from the
Aminidab Airport in India, killing all but one of the
two hundred and forty two people on board. The soul survivor,
(01:07):
British national vishwash Ramish, miraculously escaped with non critical injuries
after being ejected from the aircraft for impact. Now. The
crash also claimed at least fifty lives on the ground
as well, and that when the plane struck a densely
populated area, investigators are still finding survivors and are focusing
(01:30):
on engine failure and flatmol functions. While India considers rounding
its entire feet of going sevent eighty seven eights for
safety reviews. Boeing has already you know, been under scrutiny
for past safety concerns. Now they have pledged full cooperation
with authorities. Families of victims are receiving financial support, and
(01:53):
DNA identification efforts are currently underplady. Now, Boeing has been
in the headline quite recently throughout last year and throughout
this year, not only for airplanes falling out of the
sky and crashing, but also with whistleblowers ending up murder. Well,
(02:17):
I can't say murdered allegedly committing suicide, which I believe
is murdered. So saying that Boeing has increasing safety concerns,
it's and understatement, and that there are a lot of
issues surrounding the company in addition to their stock falling
five percent. I did want to bring you to one
as guests to talk about you know, other implications for
(02:39):
consumers as they are making purchasing decisions about flying and
decisions about air safety. So I guess my first question,
especially for for you, Cam. You're a best selling author,
your life, professional storytelling public person, So I guess my
question to you as as an author, do you think
(03:00):
that fear of flying is rooted more in emotion or facts?
And how can the narratives help people process aviation anxiety.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I definitely think it's more emotional and psychological because statistically,
if you look at your chances of dying in a
plane crash versus a car crash versus a tree, you
know they're still very remote. But I think what terrifies
us is imagining those people's last few moments and we
(03:35):
put ourselves there, and then you see the aftermath of
the families that are distraught and still wanting to know, like,
you know, are their family members still alive.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
But I think.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Overall you can't not travel or get in your car
or get on a train, because statistically I think you'll
be okay. But you know, one thing, I don't know
if you saw this video. So this plane went, you know,
from point A to point B, and then it was
about to go from point B back to point A,
(04:07):
and there was a passenger on its way and he
was videotaping how none of the electrical stuff was working,
so the TV screens weren't working, the call buttons weren't working.
And I haven't seen a lot about that. And I
hate it when they say maybe it's a bird, because
when they say, oh, it's a bird or flock of birds,
(04:28):
that to me is terrifying. The mechanical stuff. I get
your act together and do the maintenance you're supposed do,
and don't cut corners.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, yeah, I think, and I think you're getting you know, honestly, doctor,
I'm sorry, I got doctor can uh. There were a
couple of plane crashes this week. One plane crash had
to do with birds, well allegedly birds flying into the
to the engine. That that's that's not the same as
(04:58):
this light here though. That's a situation. But going back
to what you were saying earlier about the video of
a person saying that there was nothing working on the airplane,
So that was actually the flight the same aircraft that
crashed in India, but it was the flight before the crash,
so you're actually right, yeah, And so I mean when
(05:19):
you see things like that, I think you're absolutely right.
Obviously flying is fairly safe, but when you do see this,
I think you think absolutely right that you know, we
do put ourselves in those situations, and then when we
start hearing it over and over again, it just it's
you know, and whistleblowers disappearing as it were, it becomes
a concern. You know. And Doctor King, I know that
(05:41):
you also are a coach and you work with individuals,
helping them to kind of scale and grow their business.
I mean, from an executive perspective, how do aviation companies
manage crisis communications after the crash? What strategies do you
think it were best in rebuilding consumer trust?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
That's such a good question. I think that, as my
colleague was saying, one of the difficulties is we think
about those last moments and all of us understand that,
you know, our lives begin and all of our lives
will end somewhere at some point, but most of us
never expect that it's going to be on a plane
or going on vacation, or going to see family or
(06:23):
going to start a new life or whatever it is.
And I think that the organization itself has to own
up to the problem, not just apologize, but actually be
there for those people, the victims and their families that
remember it's not just the people on the plane, but
they also have brothers, sisters, mothers, father's children, grandchildren that
(06:47):
are going to be affected by this. So literally making
sure that there are not just funds, but also that
there are services for these people. Apology is nice, but
you know, actions speak louder, and so I think that
this is the beginning. The second is to try to
figure out what did happen when it came to the
maintenance and to be transparent and honest about it. And
(07:09):
then to the third is to say how they are
going to make that better, what are they going to
do so this doesn't happen again. I believe without those
three steps, the confidence will not go back. The confidence
from the general public will not be there. And you know,
we as a general public that literally travel all over
the world, need to know that the companies are going
(07:31):
to take these incidentss seriously and that they're going to improve,
and more importantly, that they're going to do whatever they
need to do to make restitution for this horrible incident.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
That's a very good point. Doctor King, and I think
you speak very eloquently, especially within regards to how brands
are shaping the narrative by even not saying anything at all,
are not taking the appropriate action. And back to you
within regards to the story telling, you know, Ken storytelling
(08:05):
are can are Ken going to a better job at
storytelling to influence their public confidence in their work, especially
after these and if they they were to do that,
like what what what messaging strategies would work best?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Well, you know, that's that's a really interesting analogy because
in storytelling you get to embellish, right, and you you
get to weave a tale and they have to tell
the truth and that's the facts, and to me, that's
not storytelling, right, So initially you see all this stuff
(08:45):
that comes out that you know, oh maybe it was
the birds or whatever, if you hadn't been doing your maintenance,
which you know, here's the thing when they admit that, okay,
major lawsuits anyway, but punitive damages, I mean major accountability.
But I think Bulleying has been plagued by these kind
(09:07):
of issues for a long time, and I wasn't aware
of the suicided people, and that's always to me so alarming.
And they need to be investigated by all the agencies
investigate airlines, not just FAA. But and then they need
to be accountable, and they need to be held accountable
(09:30):
at the very top because it goes down and you
know what, it's cost cutting doesn't always come down to
cost cutting, and that's tragic. Like the pinto gas tank
in the back of the car, they decided it was
easier to pay for two hundred thousand lives than fix
the engine. Those are corporate decisions based on profit that
(09:50):
prioritize profit over human beings and that's the culture unfortunately.
But on an airplane makes a huge difference because if
you take away mechanical issues due to lack of maintenance,
you know, the amount of crashes probably go way down.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Wait in yeah, so yeah, and I think I think
you're right. Yeah, And I think and I think that
Boeing has an opportunity here too to not only just
make amends, but to get people excited about traveling again.
I think right now, it's just a lot of stress
and anxiety that's associated with flying. And I know the
(10:26):
airlines try to do their best, be some of them anyways,
to make the experience as comfortable as possible. But when
you're talking about the aircraft, the actual vehicle that's supposed
to get us from point A to point B, and
they're falling out of the sky and there's no accountability.
Uh no, I don't care how many you know, peanuts
and crackers and first class. You know, you know amenities
(10:47):
there are on your plane. If it crashes, that's not
going to do me any good, you see.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
No, it's so good. I'm flying so unpleasant anyway anymore. Right,
I remember when you could be at the gate when
somebody got off, right, and now you know you've got
to get there hours ahead of time. You got to
go through security, You got to pour out your water,
you can't you know, you got to.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Your sunscreen, you sunscreen and in hair jail. I mean it's.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
You're so small now. On top of everything else too,
and then you maybe you get some pretzels.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Right, people are gonna stop flying, you know, in Europe,
it's funny, you have lots of other options.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
You know, in the States, people don't really take trains
like they do in other countries and stuff. And at
some point you have to get on a plane. If
we're going to cross an ocean, but there are still boats.
I don't know, but yeah, they feel safe. When I
was young, somebody told me before I got on a flight,
don't think about all those tiny wires that are holding
you up. And I was nervous on that flight. So
(11:53):
you talk about psychology, right, And then I have never
had a fear of flying, except when my children were young,
and then I would be terrified turbulence everything. Now that
they're older, I don't care, like the turbulence come out,
even the plane good down, They're going to be fine.
But when they were young, I didn't like.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
To find the doctor. King. I have a question for you,
and it has to do more along the financial Now,
now stop four blowing from a five percent. I was
surprised there was longly five percent after the crash in India.
What are the financial implications for manufacturer's light blowing? Public
trust demons like how do industry leaders handle.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Reputational I think that's a I mean, I think that's
a very good question. And as my colleagues was talking about,
sometimes you do have people skimping on maintenance. And as
someone who's taken flying lessons and understanding also some of
the international rules about not just flights, but actually checking
(12:55):
those flights. I'm not sure that it's that simple. So
let's just say when it comes to some of the
financial issues, remember that you have individuals also as a
part of this, right, So you have not just a
pilots who are checking, but you have the people that
are doing the maintenance. You have individuals who are individual
(13:16):
in their lives and their behavior, in their psychology and
so on and so forth. Sometimes you have machines that
they use to check that are not necessarily working properly.
So there's so many different factors and it's so difficult
to figure out which factor made the difference. But I
think when you're talking about money, not just for the
airline industry, but this particularly airline industry, but even for
(13:38):
the whole ecosystem right of travel, airlines, people going vacation,
so on and so forth, I think that what you
talked about confidence makes all the difference. What allows confidence transparency.
You know. One of the difficulties is that even when
I look at some of the media today talking about
(13:58):
this this credible tragedy, just horrible tragedy, is that people
think that it's just one factor. And unfortunately, in our lives,
whether it's a plane or a train, or a boat,
or you know, a motorcycle a bicycle. Most of the
time it's not just one factor. It's the congruence of
several factors that you do not think they are going
(14:20):
to come together to make a tragedy. So when you're
also looking at that some of this perhaps is not
I'm not saying that it wasn't, but just to look
at okay, well, maybe you know, maintenance wasn't done properly,
or they skimped on something. I'm not sure that it's
that simple. And I think that even though it went
down five percent, if they do not take some kind
(14:43):
of steps to actually show that there's transparency and also
a willingness to figure out what's going on, right, be
honest with us, what really happened? How are we going
to deal with this? And if that doesn't happen, I
believe it's going to go down even more than five percent.
I think I think that right now the market is waiting, literally,
the financial market is waiting to find out, Okay, is
(15:05):
this something that truly happened as a result of negligence?
Is this something that happened, by the way, and we've
seen this before as a result of a particular piece
or something out working in the plane that was hard
to pick up. Now we've had this happen before. Is
it a matter of someone who did the maintenance basically
checking off when they didn't do it right. So I
(15:26):
think that we're going to see the market go up
or down when it comes to stocks, and this I
mean not just this, I think also in other airlines.
Once we figure out what's really going on, what's the
truth right, and if there's a lot of difficulty with
starting to get to the truth quicker because we lost
(15:48):
a lot of people. You know, people say that people
talk about, oh, they've recovered bodies. No, they didn't recover bodies.
They've recovered people who have families, who have lives, who
had dreams, people who are connected to the people. They
recovered people who had died. So once we have a
clear understanding and a clear path towards the truth and transparency,
(16:09):
then I think you're going to see that the stock
will not go down further. If we have them covering
up and not wanting to take any responsibility and blaming
anybody and everybody, you're going to see those stocks tumble.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Thank you for those insights, and I would just.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
I'm just going to say, I agree it put the
you know, a one off mechanical thing. They come out
and say, oh, this part failed like they you know,
but the problem is if it is a systemic issue
that was intentionally made to cut back on regular maintenance
for profit, they are not going to tell the truth.
And if that's what the whistle blowers we're talking about,
you know, the blowers we're talking about Joseph, Because if
(16:49):
they were saying.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Well, it wasn't about this particular aircraft, I will say this, Well,
this particular aircraft that weigh down at least according to reports,
this is the first of its hind that has crashed.
It's actually it's considered one of the safest that Boeing makes.
So I will say that, so this is the first
accident that they've had with this particular make so that
(17:12):
so I will say that. So now, so was it
a pilot error, was it a mechanical was it was
it something else or or was it something that Boeing
is directly responsible for? I don't know now now as
other aircrafts are concerned with the past, you know, uh
issues that Boeing had even last year. It was way
(17:32):
more than one area. But for this particular make and model,
this is the first one of its company to go
down and we supported.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
You know, how old the plane was.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Any idea I do not.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
No, it's it's no, it's one of the it's one
of the new airlines, one of the new Dreamers.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
But I will say that that's the key I want
to say this so real quick, is that that I
may have said this in the beginning of the show,
but the government of India is they're almost ready.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
To to to ground all of these planes based off
of this h this incident. So I going back to
what you were saying earlier, doctor King about you know, transparency,
and could this come back and and really bite them
in the rear if they're not being you know, authentically
transparent about you know, anything that they any misshallenge that
(18:28):
they may be responsible for or even invertly responsible for.
You may see profit losses there as well. So I
think it's I think this is one of those issues
where if it doesn't get better and people start pulling,
start pulling away from you know, making purchases and airlines
(18:49):
start you know, holding Bowing more accountable, because I think
it has to come from bigger players. You know, we
as a consumer, you know, if we if we have
a relationship with an airline like Delta, I'm America Airlines.
You know, we're not necessarily checking on their fleet of planes.
So I think I think a big power move would
really be if these airlines started saying, hey, We're not
(19:11):
going to play this game with you anymore, Bowling, because
our passengers, people who trust us and our brand, are
dying because of your planes. Now, if the airlines pulled
a power move, then I think you could probably see
some some real substantial change with how Boweling operates. But
if the airlines are not willing to do that for
the safety of their you know, constituents, you know, chances
(19:35):
are even within regards to you know, you know stocks.
You know, you're probably not gonna see THO numbers public
plummet too much. You're gonna have to really have people
who have the money and the influence to really start
calling some of these shots and holding bone and responsible.
If they don't, they're gonna keep getting a liver. And
(19:56):
I think and and I think and I think India
saying hey, we may not. You may have to ground
all these planes. I think that may be a good
start because you know, because people in India don't play
I mean, they're nice, but something like this will set
them off. They I mean they will they will burn.
They will burn a whole city there. Uh and and
(20:17):
and and and the Indian Prime Minister knows that. So
over over an incident like this, if they don't get that,
if they don't get the results in the answers that
they need to see. So this so this may actually
be a start to change, but you know, it does
remain to be seen what's going to transpire.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
You know, No, it's true, you know, I don't know it.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Was you're talking about this. One of the things I'm
thinking about is that you have a manufacturer that delivers
a plane to a group, to a place, you know,
to an organization, to a company. So they've done what
they're supposed to do. So you're talking about making the
make the making of the plane. Then you have those
(20:59):
who to maintain that plane. They're supposed to do the
maintenance on that plane. You have the regulatory systems within
not just India but various parts of the world that
each time it flies in requires that they pass so
many tests before anybody even starts to board that plane.
(21:19):
So then then the question becomes even for me, we're
sitting here talking about I'm thinking we're talking about it's
the manufacturer's fault. Now it could be I'm not saying
it's not. I don't know what the fault is. That's
I didn't say that. I Oh, we didn't say that there.
I'm not saying.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
What we are saying is that that they may bear responsibility,
but they have to be transparent regardless.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
I agree. I was just trying to I was just
trying to finish. I understand.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
I know that there's blame somewhere. I just don't know where.
So let me just say that. But then I'm thinking
to myself, there are people that have to maintain that plane, right,
there are companies that must maintain that plane. The companies
actually hire mechanics to maintain that plane. So, as I said,
I'm not sure where or if it's a combination or
where that focus should lie. But I do understand that
(22:08):
it has to lie somewhere. But I think that even
in my own mind, I think it's important to separate
someone makes a car, they deliver the car, the person
has the car, the person needs to maintain the car.
When they don't maintain the car, I can have an accident.
So I just wanted us to think about the fact
that you have someone who builds a plane and delivers it,
and then you have the company that owns the plane
(22:31):
that is responsible for its maintenance. And we're not sure
where the problem is. But I just wanted to put
that out there that even in my own mind, that
needs to be separated out some rather than.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Do you also have the factor into the equation as well,
but the pilot, you know, did the pilot make an error?
So you know, then you have the factor that into
the equation as well. I think right now we have
more questions than we have answers. However, because Boeing does
have unfortunately a bad rep when it comes to their planes,
especially with all the crashes they had last year, it
(23:04):
does give one cause for pause to say, hmm, maybe
we need to be scrutinizing Boeing a little bit further
because this is the first incident with it, and I
think that's where people are more concerned about, you know,
Boeing's you know trouble paths and is it kind of
And the question is is it catching up with them
right now or was this an air on some other front,
(23:27):
which again we don't know yet, but it does make
one think in wonder, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yeah. I was going to say, I had a friend
who was supposed to catch a plane from Edinburgh back
to the States today and it was canceled, not delayed,
just completely canceled. And they didn't give a reason why,
you know, and in this current environment, go, I wonder,
you know, if they had to fix something, look at
something more carefully. And I don't know, she didn't know.
(23:56):
She said, they gave us no reason. They just put
them up on a telephone.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
But it's actually good that they that. I mean, you know,
I've done a lot of I mean, just like you,
my two colleagues, we've all done a lot of flying
over the years. I don't know how many hundreds or
thousands of flights I've taken over the years, but I
know it has to be thousands, literally, And I've only
had two flights where I understood that if the pilot
didn't do what he needed to do and they just
(24:20):
happened to be he's at the time, because I'd thank
them for it. I wouldn't be here today talking to you.
And one of them, well, I don't say the airlines,
it doesn't matter, but it was many years ago, was
an international flight going from Europe to America and well
one of the you know how you bank to the
right or the left, well one of them didn't work,
and so we had to circle around. There are times
(24:42):
that it would speed up or we would literally drop,
and we all knew that we had a problem, and
we weren't sure that we were going to land properly.
And even when we landed, they didn't say we had landed,
and there was a fire truck there and everything waiting
for us, because I think that they thought that we
were going to crash. Now, I don't know what you say,
say that that you have the luck or whatever it is,
but the person who had want the pilot who flew
(25:05):
that plane was someone that was a forty year veteran
who just decided that he was going to take that
international flight in order to keep up his you know,
his hours. But if we had somebody with twenty years experience,
I'm sure I would not be here today speaking with you,
because I was. We absolutely understood that that plane had
a mechanical problem in air and it was likely that
(25:27):
we weren't going to make it, and thank god we did,
and we were very fortunate to have a pilot that
was able to land a plane that had severe problems
and we knew it.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah. Wow, it's it's a very interesting world that we
live in. Five And to wrap this conversation, it's here
that passenger trust and air travel is shaved by more
than just is influenced by media coverage, corporate accountability, and
personal experience. High profile crashes like the recent Air India
(26:03):
tragedy reminds us that safety is never just a technical
issue for a human one. So whether through stronger regulations,
transparent communication, are innovation, and aviation technology, the industry must
continue to earn the trust of travelers. At the end
of the day, flying remains one of the stafest modes
of transportation. The trust is built not only through numbers,
(26:25):
it is built through action, responsibility, and reassurance. When to
thank our guests for giving their insights and to our
listeners for joining us on this discussion. Until next time,
stay informed, stay safe, and travel with confidence.
Hey, what's going on you guys. This is jose Warner.
Welcome to JBN New York. I am your host, and
today we are joined with this very special segment Canilla Nicols.
She is a best selling author and the CEO of
Simple Things Cam. Welcome to the show. How are you.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Great? Thanks Joseph, How are you doing?
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I'm doing great, you know, happy, Happy Monday, Monday Monday.
And we also are joined by doctor Ario King. She
is the founder of the Aero Foundation International. Am I
saying that correctly? I said Aero International Foundation.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
No, thank you, mister Bonnet's Aerial Foundation International and doctor
King consulting us here.
Speaker 1 (00:46):
Thank you, sir, thank you so much. So today we're
going to be talking about the Air India Flight a
I one seventy one. He was a Boeing seven eighty
seven eighth Dreamliner that crashed seconds after takeoff from the
Aminidab Airport in India, killing all but one of the
two hundred and forty two people on board. The soul survivor,
(01:07):
British national vishwash Ramish, miraculously escaped with non critical injuries
after being ejected from the aircraft for impact. Now. The
crash also claimed at least fifty lives on the ground
as well, and that when the plane struck a densely
populated area, investigators are still finding survivors and are focusing
(01:30):
on engine failure and flatmol functions. While India considers rounding
its entire feet of going sevent eighty seven eights for
safety reviews. Boeing has already you know, been under scrutiny
for past safety concerns. Now they have pledged full cooperation
with authorities. Families of victims are receiving financial support, and
(01:53):
DNA identification efforts are currently underplady. Now, Boeing has been
in the headline quite recently throughout last year and throughout
this year, not only for airplanes falling out of the
sky and crashing, but also with whistleblowers ending up murder. Well,
(02:17):
I can't say murdered allegedly committing suicide, which I believe
is murdered. So saying that Boeing has increasing safety concerns,
it's and understatement, and that there are a lot of
issues surrounding the company in addition to their stock falling
five percent. I did want to bring you to one
as guests to talk about you know, other implications for
(02:39):
consumers as they are making purchasing decisions about flying and
decisions about air safety. So I guess my first question,
especially for for you, Cam. You're a best selling author,
your life, professional storytelling public person, So I guess my
question to you as as an author, do you think
(03:00):
that fear of flying is rooted more in emotion or facts?
And how can the narratives help people process aviation anxiety.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
I definitely think it's more emotional and psychological because statistically,
if you look at your chances of dying in a
plane crash versus a car crash versus a tree, you
know they're still very remote. But I think what terrifies
us is imagining those people's last few moments and we
(03:35):
put ourselves there, and then you see the aftermath of
the families that are distraught and still wanting to know, like,
you know, are their family members still alive.
Speaker 1 (03:46):
But I think.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Overall you can't not travel or get in your car
or get on a train, because statistically I think you'll
be okay. But you know, one thing, I don't know
if you saw this video. So this plane went, you know,
from point A to point B, and then it was
about to go from point B back to point A,
(04:07):
and there was a passenger on its way and he
was videotaping how none of the electrical stuff was working,
so the TV screens weren't working, the call buttons weren't working.
And I haven't seen a lot about that. And I
hate it when they say maybe it's a bird, because
when they say, oh, it's a bird or flock of birds,
(04:28):
that to me is terrifying. The mechanical stuff. I get
your act together and do the maintenance you're supposed do,
and don't cut corners.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Yeah, yeah, I think, and I think you're getting you know, honestly, doctor,
I'm sorry, I got doctor can uh. There were a
couple of plane crashes this week. One plane crash had
to do with birds, well allegedly birds flying into the
to the engine. That that's that's not the same as
(04:58):
this light here though. That's a situation. But going back
to what you were saying earlier about the video of
a person saying that there was nothing working on the airplane,
So that was actually the flight the same aircraft that
crashed in India, but it was the flight before the crash,
so you're actually right, yeah, And so I mean when
(05:19):
you see things like that, I think you're absolutely right.
Obviously flying is fairly safe, but when you do see this,
I think you think absolutely right that you know, we
do put ourselves in those situations, and then when we
start hearing it over and over again, it just it's
you know, and whistleblowers disappearing as it were, it becomes
a concern. You know. And Doctor King, I know that
(05:41):
you also are a coach and you work with individuals,
helping them to kind of scale and grow their business.
I mean, from an executive perspective, how do aviation companies
manage crisis communications after the crash? What strategies do you
think it were best in rebuilding consumer trust?
Speaker 3 (06:00):
That's such a good question. I think that, as my
colleague was saying, one of the difficulties is we think
about those last moments and all of us understand that,
you know, our lives begin and all of our lives
will end somewhere at some point, but most of us
never expect that it's going to be on a plane
or going on vacation, or going to see family or
(06:23):
going to start a new life or whatever it is.
And I think that the organization itself has to own
up to the problem, not just apologize, but actually be
there for those people, the victims and their families that
remember it's not just the people on the plane, but
they also have brothers, sisters, mothers, father's children, grandchildren that
(06:47):
are going to be affected by this. So literally making
sure that there are not just funds, but also that
there are services for these people. Apology is nice, but
you know, actions speak louder, and so I think that
this is the beginning. The second is to try to
figure out what did happen when it came to the
maintenance and to be transparent and honest about it. And
(07:09):
then to the third is to say how they are
going to make that better, what are they going to
do so this doesn't happen again. I believe without those
three steps, the confidence will not go back. The confidence
from the general public will not be there. And you know,
we as a general public that literally travel all over
the world, need to know that the companies are going
(07:31):
to take these incidentss seriously and that they're going to improve,
and more importantly, that they're going to do whatever they
need to do to make restitution for this horrible incident.
Speaker 1 (07:42):
That's a very good point. Doctor King, and I think
you speak very eloquently, especially within regards to how brands
are shaping the narrative by even not saying anything at all,
are not taking the appropriate action. And back to you
within regards to the story telling, you know, Ken storytelling
(08:05):
are can are Ken going to a better job at
storytelling to influence their public confidence in their work, especially
after these and if they they were to do that,
like what what what messaging strategies would work best?
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Well, you know, that's that's a really interesting analogy because
in storytelling you get to embellish, right, and you you
get to weave a tale and they have to tell
the truth and that's the facts, and to me, that's
not storytelling, right, So initially you see all this stuff
(08:45):
that comes out that you know, oh maybe it was
the birds or whatever, if you hadn't been doing your maintenance,
which you know, here's the thing when they admit that, okay,
major lawsuits anyway, but punitive damages, I mean major accountability.
But I think Bulleying has been plagued by these kind
(09:07):
of issues for a long time, and I wasn't aware
of the suicided people, and that's always to me so alarming.
And they need to be investigated by all the agencies
investigate airlines, not just FAA. But and then they need
to be accountable, and they need to be held accountable
(09:30):
at the very top because it goes down and you
know what, it's cost cutting doesn't always come down to
cost cutting, and that's tragic. Like the pinto gas tank
in the back of the car, they decided it was
easier to pay for two hundred thousand lives than fix
the engine. Those are corporate decisions based on profit that
(09:50):
prioritize profit over human beings and that's the culture unfortunately.
But on an airplane makes a huge difference because if
you take away mechanical issues due to lack of maintenance,
you know, the amount of crashes probably go way down.
Speaker 1 (10:06):
Wait in yeah, so yeah, and I think I think
you're right. Yeah, And I think and I think that
Boeing has an opportunity here too to not only just
make amends, but to get people excited about traveling again.
I think right now, it's just a lot of stress
and anxiety that's associated with flying. And I know the
(10:26):
airlines try to do their best, be some of them anyways,
to make the experience as comfortable as possible. But when
you're talking about the aircraft, the actual vehicle that's supposed
to get us from point A to point B, and
they're falling out of the sky and there's no accountability.
Uh no, I don't care how many you know, peanuts
and crackers and first class. You know, you know amenities
(10:47):
there are on your plane. If it crashes, that's not
going to do me any good, you see.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
No, it's so good. I'm flying so unpleasant anyway anymore. Right,
I remember when you could be at the gate when
somebody got off, right, and now you know you've got
to get there hours ahead of time. You got to
go through security, You got to pour out your water,
you can't you know, you got to.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
Your sunscreen, you sunscreen and in hair jail. I mean it's.
Speaker 2 (11:16):
You're so small now. On top of everything else too,
and then you maybe you get some pretzels.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Right, people are gonna stop flying, you know, in Europe,
it's funny, you have lots of other options.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
You know, in the States, people don't really take trains
like they do in other countries and stuff. And at
some point you have to get on a plane. If
we're going to cross an ocean, but there are still boats.
I don't know, but yeah, they feel safe. When I
was young, somebody told me before I got on a flight,
don't think about all those tiny wires that are holding
you up. And I was nervous on that flight. So
(11:53):
you talk about psychology, right, And then I have never
had a fear of flying, except when my children were young,
and then I would be terrified turbulence everything. Now that
they're older, I don't care, like the turbulence come out,
even the plane good down, They're going to be fine.
But when they were young, I didn't like.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
To find the doctor. King. I have a question for you,
and it has to do more along the financial Now,
now stop four blowing from a five percent. I was
surprised there was longly five percent after the crash in India.
What are the financial implications for manufacturer's light blowing? Public
trust demons like how do industry leaders handle.
Speaker 3 (12:34):
Reputational I think that's a I mean, I think that's
a very good question. And as my colleagues was talking about,
sometimes you do have people skimping on maintenance. And as
someone who's taken flying lessons and understanding also some of
the international rules about not just flights, but actually checking
(12:55):
those flights. I'm not sure that it's that simple. So
let's just say when it comes to some of the
financial issues, remember that you have individuals also as a
part of this, right, So you have not just a
pilots who are checking, but you have the people that
are doing the maintenance. You have individuals who are individual
(13:16):
in their lives and their behavior, in their psychology and
so on and so forth. Sometimes you have machines that
they use to check that are not necessarily working properly.
So there's so many different factors and it's so difficult
to figure out which factor made the difference. But I
think when you're talking about money, not just for the
airline industry, but this particularly airline industry, but even for
(13:38):
the whole ecosystem right of travel, airlines, people going vacation,
so on and so forth, I think that what you
talked about confidence makes all the difference. What allows confidence transparency.
You know. One of the difficulties is that even when
I look at some of the media today talking about
(13:58):
this this credible tragedy, just horrible tragedy, is that people
think that it's just one factor. And unfortunately, in our lives,
whether it's a plane or a train, or a boat,
or you know, a motorcycle a bicycle. Most of the
time it's not just one factor. It's the congruence of
several factors that you do not think they are going
(14:20):
to come together to make a tragedy. So when you're
also looking at that some of this perhaps is not
I'm not saying that it wasn't, but just to look
at okay, well, maybe you know, maintenance wasn't done properly,
or they skimped on something. I'm not sure that it's
that simple. And I think that even though it went
down five percent, if they do not take some kind
(14:43):
of steps to actually show that there's transparency and also
a willingness to figure out what's going on, right, be
honest with us, what really happened? How are we going
to deal with this? And if that doesn't happen, I
believe it's going to go down even more than five percent.
I think I think that right now the market is waiting, literally,
the financial market is waiting to find out, Okay, is
(15:05):
this something that truly happened as a result of negligence?
Is this something that happened, by the way, and we've
seen this before as a result of a particular piece
or something out working in the plane that was hard
to pick up. Now we've had this happen before. Is
it a matter of someone who did the maintenance basically
checking off when they didn't do it right. So I
(15:26):
think that we're going to see the market go up
or down when it comes to stocks, and this I
mean not just this, I think also in other airlines.
Once we figure out what's really going on, what's the
truth right, and if there's a lot of difficulty with
starting to get to the truth quicker because we lost
(15:48):
a lot of people. You know, people say that people
talk about, oh, they've recovered bodies. No, they didn't recover bodies.
They've recovered people who have families, who have lives, who
had dreams, people who are connected to the people. They
recovered people who had died. So once we have a
clear understanding and a clear path towards the truth and transparency,
(16:09):
then I think you're going to see that the stock
will not go down further. If we have them covering
up and not wanting to take any responsibility and blaming
anybody and everybody, you're going to see those stocks tumble.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
Thank you for those insights, and I would just.
Speaker 2 (16:27):
I'm just going to say, I agree it put the
you know, a one off mechanical thing. They come out
and say, oh, this part failed like they you know,
but the problem is if it is a systemic issue
that was intentionally made to cut back on regular maintenance
for profit, they are not going to tell the truth.
And if that's what the whistle blowers we're talking about,
you know, the blowers we're talking about Joseph, Because if
(16:49):
they were saying.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
Well, it wasn't about this particular aircraft, I will say this, Well,
this particular aircraft that weigh down at least according to reports,
this is the first of its hind that has crashed.
It's actually it's considered one of the safest that Boeing makes.
So I will say that, so this is the first
accident that they've had with this particular make so that
(17:12):
so I will say that. So now, so was it
a pilot error, was it a mechanical was it was
it something else or or was it something that Boeing
is directly responsible for? I don't know now now as
other aircrafts are concerned with the past, you know, uh
issues that Boeing had even last year. It was way
(17:32):
more than one area. But for this particular make and model,
this is the first one of its company to go
down and we supported.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
You know, how old the plane was.
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Any idea I do not.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
No, it's it's no, it's one of the it's one
of the new airlines, one of the new Dreamers.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
But I will say that that's the key I want
to say this so real quick, is that that I
may have said this in the beginning of the show,
but the government of India is they're almost ready.
Speaker 1 (18:04):
To to to ground all of these planes based off
of this h this incident. So I going back to
what you were saying earlier, doctor King about you know, transparency,
and could this come back and and really bite them
in the rear if they're not being you know, authentically
transparent about you know, anything that they any misshallenge that
(18:28):
they may be responsible for or even invertly responsible for.
You may see profit losses there as well. So I
think it's I think this is one of those issues
where if it doesn't get better and people start pulling,
start pulling away from you know, making purchases and airlines
(18:49):
start you know, holding Bowing more accountable, because I think
it has to come from bigger players. You know, we
as a consumer, you know, if we if we have
a relationship with an airline like Delta, I'm America Airlines.
You know, we're not necessarily checking on their fleet of planes.
So I think I think a big power move would
really be if these airlines started saying, hey, We're not
(19:11):
going to play this game with you anymore, Bowling, because
our passengers, people who trust us and our brand, are
dying because of your planes. Now, if the airlines pulled
a power move, then I think you could probably see
some some real substantial change with how Boweling operates. But
if the airlines are not willing to do that for
the safety of their you know, constituents, you know, chances
(19:35):
are even within regards to you know, you know stocks.
You know, you're probably not gonna see THO numbers public
plummet too much. You're gonna have to really have people
who have the money and the influence to really start
calling some of these shots and holding bone and responsible.
If they don't, they're gonna keep getting a liver. And
(19:56):
I think and and I think and I think India
saying hey, we may not. You may have to ground
all these planes. I think that may be a good
start because you know, because people in India don't play
I mean, they're nice, but something like this will set
them off. They I mean they will they will burn.
They will burn a whole city there. Uh and and
(20:17):
and and and the Indian Prime Minister knows that. So
over over an incident like this, if they don't get that,
if they don't get the results in the answers that
they need to see. So this so this may actually
be a start to change, but you know, it does
remain to be seen what's going to transpire.
Speaker 2 (20:35):
You know, No, it's true, you know, I don't know it.
Speaker 3 (20:37):
Was you're talking about this. One of the things I'm
thinking about is that you have a manufacturer that delivers
a plane to a group, to a place, you know,
to an organization, to a company. So they've done what
they're supposed to do. So you're talking about making the
make the making of the plane. Then you have those
(20:59):
who to maintain that plane. They're supposed to do the
maintenance on that plane. You have the regulatory systems within
not just India but various parts of the world that
each time it flies in requires that they pass so
many tests before anybody even starts to board that plane.
(21:19):
So then then the question becomes even for me, we're
sitting here talking about I'm thinking we're talking about it's
the manufacturer's fault. Now it could be I'm not saying
it's not. I don't know what the fault is. That's
I didn't say that. I Oh, we didn't say that there.
I'm not saying.
Speaker 1 (21:33):
What we are saying is that that they may bear responsibility,
but they have to be transparent regardless.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
I agree. I was just trying to I was just
trying to finish. I understand.
Speaker 1 (21:43):
I don't.
Speaker 3 (21:44):
I know that there's blame somewhere. I just don't know where.
So let me just say that. But then I'm thinking
to myself, there are people that have to maintain that plane, right,
there are companies that must maintain that plane. The companies
actually hire mechanics to maintain that plane. So, as I said,
I'm not sure where or if it's a combination or
where that focus should lie. But I do understand that
(22:08):
it has to lie somewhere. But I think that even
in my own mind, I think it's important to separate
someone makes a car, they deliver the car, the person
has the car, the person needs to maintain the car.
When they don't maintain the car, I can have an accident.
So I just wanted us to think about the fact
that you have someone who builds a plane and delivers it,
and then you have the company that owns the plane
(22:31):
that is responsible for its maintenance. And we're not sure
where the problem is. But I just wanted to put
that out there that even in my own mind, that
needs to be separated out some rather than.
Speaker 1 (22:42):
Do you also have the factor into the equation as well,
but the pilot, you know, did the pilot make an error?
So you know, then you have the factor that into
the equation as well. I think right now we have
more questions than we have answers. However, because Boeing does
have unfortunately a bad rep when it comes to their planes,
especially with all the crashes they had last year, it
(23:04):
does give one cause for pause to say, hmm, maybe
we need to be scrutinizing Boeing a little bit further
because this is the first incident with it, and I
think that's where people are more concerned about, you know,
Boeing's you know trouble paths and is it kind of
And the question is is it catching up with them
right now or was this an air on some other front,
(23:27):
which again we don't know yet, but it does make
one think in wonder, that's for sure.
Speaker 2 (23:34):
Yeah. I was going to say, I had a friend
who was supposed to catch a plane from Edinburgh back
to the States today and it was canceled, not delayed,
just completely canceled. And they didn't give a reason why,
you know, and in this current environment, go, I wonder,
you know, if they had to fix something, look at
something more carefully. And I don't know, she didn't know.
(23:56):
She said, they gave us no reason. They just put
them up on a telephone.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
But it's actually good that they that. I mean, you know,
I've done a lot of I mean, just like you,
my two colleagues, we've all done a lot of flying
over the years. I don't know how many hundreds or
thousands of flights I've taken over the years, but I
know it has to be thousands, literally, And I've only
had two flights where I understood that if the pilot
didn't do what he needed to do and they just
(24:20):
happened to be he's at the time, because I'd thank
them for it. I wouldn't be here today talking to you.
And one of them, well, I don't say the airlines,
it doesn't matter, but it was many years ago, was
an international flight going from Europe to America and well
one of the you know how you bank to the
right or the left, well one of them didn't work,
and so we had to circle around. There are times
(24:42):
that it would speed up or we would literally drop,
and we all knew that we had a problem, and
we weren't sure that we were going to land properly.
And even when we landed, they didn't say we had landed,
and there was a fire truck there and everything waiting
for us, because I think that they thought that we
were going to crash. Now, I don't know what you say,
say that that you have the luck or whatever it is,
but the person who had want the pilot who flew
(25:05):
that plane was someone that was a forty year veteran
who just decided that he was going to take that
international flight in order to keep up his you know,
his hours. But if we had somebody with twenty years experience,
I'm sure I would not be here today speaking with you,
because I was. We absolutely understood that that plane had
a mechanical problem in air and it was likely that
(25:27):
we weren't going to make it, and thank god we did,
and we were very fortunate to have a pilot that
was able to land a plane that had severe problems
and we knew it.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah. Wow, it's it's a very interesting world that we
live in. Five And to wrap this conversation, it's here
that passenger trust and air travel is shaved by more
than just is influenced by media coverage, corporate accountability, and
personal experience. High profile crashes like the recent Air India
(26:03):
tragedy reminds us that safety is never just a technical
issue for a human one. So whether through stronger regulations,
transparent communication, are innovation, and aviation technology, the industry must
continue to earn the trust of travelers. At the end
of the day, flying remains one of the stafest modes
of transportation. The trust is built not only through numbers,
(26:25):
it is built through action, responsibility, and reassurance. When to
thank our guests for giving their insights and to our
listeners for joining us on this discussion. Until next time,
stay informed, stay safe, and travel with confidence.
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