August 12, 2025 • 42 mins
Avi Shaked, a businessman and political figure, discusses his journey from the business world to politics. He also delves into his career and the lessons he's learned from his experiences in both business and politics. Join us for a candid discussion on how he believes Israel can achieve lasting peace and stability.
Hosted by Yuval Barnea.
Edited and produced by Shifra Jacobs and Yuval Barnea.
Hosted by Yuval Barnea.
Edited and produced by Shifra Jacobs and Yuval Barnea.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is JPO sits down with Well we dive into
the heart of as well as the most important stories.
Today we sit down with Avi Shakhad, chairman of this
Together we will succeed political party.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
How do you go from negotiating with Donald Trump to
yasa Arafat? Avi Shaquetd is with us today to explain
his journey from the Israeli business world to politics.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Avi, thank you for.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
Joining us, Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
So give us a little bit of background where you
come from and.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Just so we get a sense of who you are.
Speaker 5 (00:30):
I am Bowen in Israel, graduate in Bengorian University, finish
my degree as a chemical engineering work as a teacher
in the Jordan Valley in the Kibutim area, in the
Unit area, and was also a chemical engineering over there,
(00:54):
doing two jobs teacher.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
And engineer in the army.
Speaker 5 (01:02):
I was a major in the communication corps. Have three children,
nine grand children, that's me.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
So how did you then get into sort of these
interfaith discussions, because that doesn't to me, that doesn't seem
like a very obvious path to really getting into this
trying to draw connections across the community. So where where
did that come from?
Speaker 5 (01:29):
It's a good question. I can't tell. I think maybe
it was in the seventy three War while I was
a soldier nineteen years old. I think that the trauma
for that war make me believe that there is another way,
and there is not always the way of war. A
(01:53):
collage leader should always think on two options, take the
war or take the the the other way which is negotiate,
which is try to solve it with different way than war.
And there are so many different ways than war. I
(02:16):
think that we haven't even touched the tip of the eyes.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
So with that, something.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
You say, when you were growing up, how much interaction
did you have with people from other faiths, because especially
at that time in Israel, it wasn't it wasn't so
common to run across other people with different faiths. We
tended to live quite separately.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Correct, you are absolutely white.
Speaker 5 (02:44):
I was born on nineteen fifty three, so until the
Six Day War, I was fourteen years old, and you're white.
I didn't have much interaction. So everything came not after
the Sixth Day War. Everything came to me after the
(03:07):
seventies Way War. When you face the war, either you
take an action or either you agree with what's happening,
I decide to take an action.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
So then it seems to me that this has been
a very large part of your life, something that you've
been very deeply involved with, or I don't know how
deeply involved with, something you've definitely been involved with for
a long time.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Give me a sense.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Of how you think that's changed since the seventies, How
has interfaith interactions in Israel changed since the seventies, or
that might be too broad. If you want to know, You're.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
Like you know, the question is always depend on the
person that you ask him, because from my point of view,
nothing has been changed. And that is so strange because
most of the people became extreme and extreme as the
time goes on, and I never became an extreme because
(04:09):
I am still in my position that there is another
way to solve the situation and to put the end
on the conflict in the area. I believe so, and
I never changed my mind. So it's easy for a
person like me because I still keeping my idea that
(04:36):
the conflict is bad mainly and here you will become
shocked mainly because of business, mainly because of money, because
the money that we spend is fifty billion shakel since
the Sixth Day War, and those fifty billion sharp is
(05:01):
today accumulate to two point five trillion sekel. And this
is numbers that people can't feel. I am, as a businessman,
understand the numbers. People are not usually talking about trillions,
and people are not talking about billions as well. Those
(05:22):
numbers sings to them strange.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
They just wake up in the morning and need to
pay the bills, as we say.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
But for me, as a businessman, I understand that there
is another way to spend the money, and Israel could
become a dwim a state that touries will come, everything
will be changed here if we will keep the money
(05:54):
and not spend it.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
But if I'm getting you correctly, it's for you.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
You think that a lot arge amount of this is
just sort of a waste of resources that we're not getting.
We're effectively spending billions of shekel to defend something that's
not actually getting us anywhere. If that's what I'm hearing
from you, that it's not actually getting us something. You know,
if we spend that money and we got something concrete back,
(06:20):
it would be different. But you're saying that we're not
getting anything really.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
From my point of view, we are not editing anything.
I understand that there is another parting as well that
do think different. But if they will convince me that
two point five trillion schekel is not a waste, then
I'm willing to negotiate with them, or to argue with them,
(06:45):
or to try to convince them, or to let them
convince me. You see, the point here is if we
can look one step ahead of us, only one step,
what life will look like, if the conflict will be ended.
And this is something that no one is doing, and
(07:08):
I'm willing to take you only this step. This step
will let people cross to the West Bank whenever they
want and walk there whenever they want, without any problem
of being attacked, and going to is Jerusalem to the
(07:30):
Walling Wall without being attacked. Why, because we will let
the other side have their own country. Once they have
their own state, they will control it better than what
we are doing today.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
What we are trying to do.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
We are trying to defend our settlers living in the
West Bank today. But if we will let those settlers
stay there, live there, they will be defendant much better
than the Israeli army. And this is one step that
no one is willing to consider it, and I insist
(08:13):
that the Palestinian will take care on the settlers much
better than the Israeli army is taking care definitely, if
much more people can go and visit the West Bank,
so it's going to be tourists coming to the West Bank,
So it's going to be two way sweet. And whenever
(08:33):
there is a two way sweet, this is a solution,
and this is where I'm aiming for.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
So, if I'm hearing properly, what you're saying is that
we kind of have to maybe paradigm shift how we
view the conflict, because up until now, effectively the idea
has always been, well, we're not going to leave any
Jews in Arab held territory anywhere that's handed over to
the Palestinian state, or the Jews will be pulled out.
(09:02):
But you're saying that maybe that's not the right way
to think about it, and that we should instead maybe
think we're going to have to trust them anyway. We
will have to trust that the Jews living there will
be safe. That's correct, That's correct, And let me say
a little bit more. Let's put some numbers here. Okay, today,
if we will keep our weal if we will keep
(09:22):
male domin and if we will keep Gushatsi on those
sweet territories.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Are understanding that whatever whenever we put the end of
the conflict, those places are going to be kept in
as well. The rest is thirty two thousand household of families.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
This is the number.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
Of course, any one family in the West Bank is
important to me, of course, But when I'm saying thirty
two thousand, which means that those thirty two thousands will
have the two options either to stay there, which I
hope that they will agree to stay there. I don't
(10:06):
want them to move away like what happened in Gaza,
what arielation around did. I hope that they will stay.
But of course if they would like to move back
to Israel, we will give them the same house they
head in the West Bank. But I'm saying, and I'm
talking to those thirty two thousand people, families, Please, you
(10:29):
have to believe that no one wants to hurt you,
and you have to believe that the Palestinian has other
side than what we are today seeing.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
And why is that?
Speaker 5 (10:43):
Because today we don't find the Palestinian state, we find
only terrorists.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
That's coming to attack.
Speaker 5 (10:52):
And have you ever noticed that there is no terrorist
in Palestine? And why is there because they want to
take care. They know how to take care on their
people citizens, even though there is no it's not a
state here yet, it's only authority, Palestinian authority. But whenever
(11:15):
it will become a state, definitely, And I knows those people.
They knows to gaverning their citizen much better than what
we are doing today. I hope that our only problem
is to govern the Jewish people and the Israeli citizens,
(11:37):
including of course the Arabs that are living in Israel.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
I hope that they will be the only mission.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
And if I might take you to another point now
I just mentioned the Israeli Arabs. We do have a
crime problem in the Israeli Arabs. And why is that
it because we do not have enough power to handle
(12:05):
and the police people are fantastic. The only problem is
that the resources are going to the border, which there
is no border, which there is a wall, all those options,
so of course the police is occupying in doing things
(12:26):
that whenever will end the conflict, such a problem will
not exist anymore, and then we can use the police
the same as all over the world. The same in
every country that the police detail the people that are
going to make a crime in order not to do it,
(12:49):
and that's the purpose of police. Police today are doing
army jobs and this is not right because when you
ask them to do this friend job, it's like that
I will ask you to become a pilot tomorrow. It's difficult,
and that's what we're asking the police to become. You
know those people, the policemen are so brave. They have
(13:13):
showed us how they sacrificed their life in the October seventh.
They were the first to respond before the soldiers and
I salute to the police. So what I'm saying that
the Arabs in Israel that are expecting from the government
(13:33):
to take action against the crime, once we will have
we will put the end to the conflict. We will
have all the resources to help the Israeli Arabs and
to represent them in the government and to have ministers
that are Arabs today, So it's going to be different
(13:58):
situation in Israel. People are how to believe because of
I understand why you have to be You have to
be a strong person with a strong belief in looking
on the future and be optimistic and as my books
say taking whisk. I understand that I am taking whisk
(14:22):
but all my life is a businessman, I was taking whisks.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I was just gonna say that that's very much a
different attitude than you see from actually something. This is
a little bit off topic, but I was going to say,
you don't see very many There's not as many businessmen,
I would say, in that cannested as you would see
in many other countries parliaments, and maybe that is a
little bit reflective in the fact that they're less willing
to take risks to get payoffs. But you sort of
(14:47):
answered my next question, which was to ask you, so
how did you get to biachat the Netlia.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
So you've answered it a little bit, But tell me
what was the exact trigger, because I know you ran
against year ago Laan and I know you kind of
disagree with his decision to merge the two parties. So
let's hear a little bit about that.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
I was a member on the Labor Party for the
last four tears, and I was involved in the politicals
when I was young. Then I switched to the business.
I was engineering in the Israel aircraft industry. Then I
jumped to the politics. I was the secretary of the
(15:27):
Labor Party in the Israeli aircraft industry. But then I
decide to move and to go to business. I did it,
and always I was looking on the other options of
doing things. For example, on two thousand, there were two
(15:51):
twig girls. Okay, so let me start with the first one.
The first twig girl was two thousands when Bawak came
from Camp David after Bill Clinton was trying to make
the last move to help us and there was not
enough courage from Barack to to shake the arapat hand
(16:11):
and to withdraw to sixty seven.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
This is the two thousand and yeah.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
When he mentioned there is no partner, well, we didn't
have internally, Barack was not the right partner.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
But that's the way. That's Democrat.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
And then Josie Bilin came to me and say, Avi,
I just went out of the government.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Can you offer me any job? I said, sure.
Speaker 5 (16:39):
What What was the last one that you did out
of a minister of justice? He said, I was continueing
negotiation after the King David collapsed in Taba. I said, wow,
can you continue doing it? He said yes, it's a
lot of money. I said, I will support it, and
everything was in my office in a day dot com.
(17:03):
I apologize for doing it, but I admit everything was
done in my office.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
And you'll see.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
Connected to other people like I'm no lip Lipkin Shakra,
I'm Mitzna Dave Kimri almost as Giova in Bar and
hammarin Shaol really Shlomo Brom I apologize, draw Steven Shoes okay,
(17:46):
and the and the Ron Pundak and round okay. I
think that I cover all of them. And there we
were sixteen people and the Rombourg and Jolitamire okay, I
got all of them.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
And when you negotiate, yasbe Rabo, the.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
Counterpart was sent by Yassa Rafat and he was bringing
his people Caduafares, et cetera. And we were starting negotiating.
The time was terrible, so many buses were exploding in Israel,
(18:29):
terrible murders, terrible attacks. But we continue and it ended
with the Geneva Code. So I am taking the responsibility
of pushing Yo sibailin to do the Geneva Code. And
it's ended with a beautiful contract that was putting the
(18:52):
end of the conflict.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
So that was my first Tigre.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
Why because I thought that I'm bringing peace immediately Ariel
Sharon was withdrawing from Gaza and that put the end
of the Geneva Code and everything continued without ending the conflict.
So that was my first wiggirl that I was putting
(19:18):
three years of negotiation with the Palestinians. By at least
I achieved something, a document that Arafat gave the permission
to sign.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Which we as we know, is a hard thing.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
Oh, it was the most difficult things for them to
agree to. Some you know, you negotiate something, you gain, something,
you lose. But that negotiation, that's a business. And that
was the first wig girl. Then I continue doing more
money and more money to myself, and then I decided
(19:54):
to compete, as you mentioned, against Yargolan to become the
the chairman of the Labor Party. I knew that I
have small chances. Yagolan at that time was the hero
of October seventh. So I compete with them, and I
(20:17):
said only one things. Without the Israeli Arabs, we don't
have any chance to get to go for an office
or to get the prime minister. The Labor Party will
continue to be a small party unless we will make
a block with the Israeli Arabs.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
And I lost.
Speaker 5 (20:43):
After I lost, people from Tamra called me and said, look,
we heard your campaign and we would like to host you.
I came to Tamra and there was a group of
people saying, look, why don't we establish h and Israeli
Arabs party.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
I was shocked. I said, how come no one ever
thought about it before? And the guy.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
That mentioned it, his name is drar m Rich from
Tama and today he is my palt Now, so.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
That's I was going to ask how that came together.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
But that's a very interesting that's a really like wow,
and he writes a mega guesh, but like it's a
very sort of It gets a nice feeling in you.
This that even out of losing the leadership election, you
still ended up finding the right group of people who
were also interested in the same sort of political vision
as you. So I think that's that's also a really
(21:43):
good lesson in general in politics, that even if you
lose the election, you might end up with something good
coming out of it anyway. So okay, So so they
came to you and they and they said, let's start
a party. And what did you say, what was your
reaction to that, and how did you get to the
point you guys are now complete?
Speaker 5 (22:02):
I said where you're coming from? And he said, you know,
most of the Israeli Arabs want to be represented in
the government.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
I said what he said, Yes.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
The majority is willing to compromise and not to be
represented by the Ahm Tibi A'manuda.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
The Masura, the old joint list.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
The old joint is correct.
Speaker 5 (22:32):
What they want is to be represented, and this is
why they never going to vote, and this is why
it's only fifteen men that in the Knesset that they
have the joint.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
So quickly, I'll just explain in case our viewers aren't
aware that up until I would say, up until Mansurabas
in twenty twenty, I don't remember which election it was,
but twenty two when he said he'd work with the government.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
It was before even with Bennett.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
But yeah, so up until that point, essentially the main
way that our political parties it worked was that they
just said they weren't going to work with anybody, and
that it was essentially a bit of a protest vote,
if I'm getting it correctly. So what you're saying is
now that there is a significant block out there that
are saying we aren't happy with this and we want
(23:20):
actual representation, not just someone who's going to collect the
check and not do anything. I have to say I
heard that from some of my friends too, but they're
perhaps not so politically willing to go out and do things.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
So what was the next step after that?
Speaker 5 (23:32):
So next step I said, look, let's make a poll
and we went to Manugeva, and Manugeva.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Is I think it's the best.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
I don't want to say that the adults are not,
but I'm saying he has credential that he is good.
And I said, Manu, please make a selvy and ask
how many of them, and the result were fantastic.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
Seventy percent of the.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
Israeli Arabs want to be represented in the government, which
means that until today they didn't have such a way
to be representative and they want to be represented. So
I said, okay, let's move and then we decided how
the party will be looked like. So the party is
(24:21):
fifty percent Jewish, fifty percent Arabs, fifty percent women, fifty
percent men, and we have to amend the success as
of now.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
And so that brings me in the next question, what's
your what are you looking at as your main voter demographic?
I know there's obviously in Israeli Arab demographic. How much
are you expecting also the Jewish population to vote for
this because we've seen in the past that it tends
to be that when you have this kind of party,
it tends to be much more heavily. The voters tend
to be much more Arab than they do tend to
be Jewish. So what are your concerns with that? What
(24:57):
are your plans for that?
Speaker 5 (24:59):
I can tell you that the Israeli Arabs is one
point one million people.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
That have the right to vote.
Speaker 5 (25:10):
I believe, I believe that for every Israeli Arabs that
want to represented in the government and want to have a.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Du quium coexistence, some of some more coexistence.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
So most of them want the coexistence.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
And I believe that for every one point one million
Israeli Arabs that will go to vote, there is one
Jewish that will have the same feelings. So if there
is one point one million Israeli Arabs that want the coexisting,
(25:52):
there is also one point one million Jewish that want
the coexisting and that's it. If will have of the
two point two million people that will go to vote,
I am the next Prime Minister of Israel.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
So that's great, and I we we'd love positive thinking
and optimism, but let's let's be a pessimist for now,
because that's I think unfortunately a lot of the modern
age were very pessimistic. What's the problem with this? How
how can you tell me that there will be all
(26:31):
these people? But if you're say the average Jerusalemites or
the average you know, the average person living in the
in the West Bank, how can you say this?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
They're living their whole lives with regular.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Attacks and constant feelings of inadequate safety and the idea
that every day they might there could be a stabbing
or shooting or something. So how how do you convince
these people that there is actually a path and that
there is actually a way to do this?
Speaker 5 (26:58):
You mentioned the main problem, and that's it. Either you
are an optimist or order you are a pessimist. I
believe that most of the people that are afraid are pessimist.
I believe that all the brave people are optimist. And
in order to be in Israel an optimist, you need
(27:23):
to be a brave person and I believe that internally,
I am brave because I'm willing to take the risk
because I'm not what is what is on the way.
What is the situation if I will not be an
optimistic or what is the situation if I will be
(27:44):
pessimistic and the pessimistic will always go to the war
and the optimist will always go to end the conflict.
I do understand that I am not representing one hand
percent of the population in Israel, but I do believe
(28:05):
that I represent at least two point two million voters.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Say there's someone sitting at home and they're sort of
very nervous. Say they live in one of the settlements
that you're saying, No one of the three blocks you
mentioned that will stay with Israel. But say one of
the smaller settlements, and they'll say to you, Oh, that's
all well and good. I'll get a house in Israel.
A lot of this, but I want to stay here
for religious reasons. I believe this is the place, you know,
(28:32):
where Abraham lived, It's where Jacob died, It's all of
these things.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
What would you say to this person.
Speaker 5 (28:37):
I will respect him, and I will protect him, and
I will take whatever needed in order to fulfill his needs.
In order to fulfill his belief I also Jewish. I'll
also believe in Mehrata, Macpela and Pevron, in kevra Rell,
all those locations, even in Kevar yourself. You know those
(29:00):
people that want to go there and to play. I
always respect them. The only way to respect those people
is only if we will let the Palestinian have their
own state and let the Palestinian protect them by committing
to the world. To me and you know what we
(29:23):
have so strong army in Israel. I am as a major.
I know exactly what the power of Israeli army. Of
course we will be protecting them. Of course we will
take all the necessary steps that they will have better life,
not words, better life, because.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
They will have a free way of.
Speaker 5 (29:48):
Walking around, driving around, coming every day to working Israel,
doing whatever they want. Those people that will be in
the West Bank will have better life.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
I can assure them. I can give them my world.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
That that's the main issue that I will handle with
the Palestinian authority just before we are signed the contract.
The contract is only to defend those people.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
The only.
Speaker 5 (30:21):
Way to have those people be protected is by letting
the Palestinian have their own state. Those simple things are
so obvious that I can't understand how all the leaders
in Israel, which were very we were very smart, very brave,
(30:42):
but all of them being influenced by those people that
were pessimists. I'm not saying that there are bad people.
I'm saying there are bad that there are only pessimists.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
And only if.
Speaker 5 (30:59):
We will have the other way, if we will let
the optimistic people, business people, people.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
That are willing to take risks.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
And this is a risk I do understand, because every
step that you want to change something means that you
want to take a risk. Unfortunately, to take the risk
that we are taking is just to protect against terror,
and that's the only risk that we are doing.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
But this is the wrong way.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
There is other way, and the other way is to
let to take the risk, but to take the risks
in order to let them have a better life, in
order to let me twavel to Mahrata Mapela freely by
no checkpoint at all. Of course at the beginning, it's
(31:53):
going to be some checkpoint, etcetera. But think about the future.
You've allved the future is like that. You can have
the same as the EU, we're doing a free area.
We can do it in the Middle East.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
So if I'm not sure if you're gonna like this
comparison too much, but it does sound a little bit like,
at least in terms of your approach to the conflict,
that you have a bit of a similar view to
Trump in that the business world is the way to
do peace rather than necessarily sitting around political table, but
(32:31):
that you can you can get a lot more done
through focusing on the business world. I don't know if
you're gonna like that comparison.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
I'm going to give you here a scope.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Okay, Okay.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
In two thousand and eleven, the Supreme Court in the
United States agree that every state in the United States
will have their own white to give license for online gaming. Okay,
And immediately we got the license in Nevada and in
(33:02):
the Delaware, and then New Jelsey came and Chrissy was
the the state governor. Yeah, and he said, look, I
have ten land based casino, which one of them was
the Twamp Tower, not Trump Casino in New Jelsey, and
(33:27):
he gave to each of them one license. So Twamp
asked his staff look over the world and give me
the best online casino, and they find eight eight and
we negotiate with them and we signed a contract. So
I'm saying that I am the only ISUELI that ever
(33:48):
signed a contract with s Twamp. I can tell you
that he is a fantastic businessman. And what happened here
is another scope. Sheldon Edelson was against me because he
has his land based casinos and I have the online
and we always were fighting with people that help us lobbist.
(34:10):
And then when Twamps start with us, then Sheldon rest
in peace say to Trump, look while you are doing it,
you better do other things and say, yeah, I have
a dream to become a president.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Okay, you know, forget the online.
Speaker 5 (34:32):
And then Twamp came to us and said, look, apologize,
I'm breaking the deal with you. I have other dreams
in my life. And he went to become the president.
And I fully admire this person as a businessman, and
I hope to have the same ability to become as
(34:55):
good as he is today by bringing the end to
the conflict.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
I do know that I have a partner in the
White House.
Speaker 5 (35:04):
I do know that you want come to every situation
as a businessman the same as I am I'm looking
on this end of conflict conflict only as a businessman, and.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
I think that's, uh, that's something that I would say
if I'm thinking back at all the previous peace negotiations
and peace plans and all these they always seem to
have come from a very military political echelon of of
maybe people who spent their whole lives working in government
(35:40):
and focusing on this. So it's quite interesting to hear
very much this perspective of actually business will will help
us bring peace, and that it's it's working together to
make money that tends to help help bring people together.
And I think that's that's really interesting to me. Actually
that's not something it's and then we don't really hear
(36:00):
about so much. Here is the business side of everything.
Let's let's talk a little bit about the book Important
a couple copies for ust have a look at. It's
a great title. How did you, How did you get
to the book? And what's the talk about? And why
why shoud people go read the book.
Speaker 5 (36:17):
If they are interesting to know how I started from
nothing and how I became a billionaire and why the
money is not important to me? The end of the
conflict is more important, and I can say that the
book start with what you will do with one billion dollar?
(36:40):
And what I decided to do is to give it
to a stranger. That's how the book start. So I'm
not going to say more, but I invite to people
to read. I explained to people in the book how
I started and how I fail, and again I started
(37:00):
another mission and then I failed. So what I'm trying
to say in the book, when you fail, it's not
a reason to withdraw.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
When you fail, you have.
Speaker 5 (37:12):
To stand up and start again with something different which
will be better. And that's what I did. I call
it like steps, like climbing steps, and until you are
feeling that you have achieved a white step that you
can stand and that's it for you. It's not that
(37:34):
you succeed, that you have achieved of a level that
you are satisfied with it. But it's never end. There
is no end. There is I don't call a word
of success. I do think that you have to move
on always and to move on and to move on
(37:55):
there is no end. The same as I was moving
from business to politics. Now it's just another move on.
So always you have to move off. Always you have
to look for the for whatever can be done, whatever
you can what what else you can change, so people
(38:15):
who have better life.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
And that's that's actually a really good message I think
also for the for the political sphere here as well,
that you have to do things step by step and
little by little things things will change and hopefully they
also get better.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
Let's talk about about there.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
There will be an election in within like by at
least November of next year. Whether the government collapses before then,
who knows. How how how are you preparing for this
and are we going to get any shall we say,
interesting people on your list that we will have heard
of before.
Speaker 5 (38:53):
Thank you for the question. We are the only party
that having an open primaries, which means to have a portal.
And here I am offering to anyone that's watching to
become part of our list. By join the party. You
have just to agree with what I've said, or if
(39:13):
you are in Israeli Arabs, with what Drahim Rich is saying.
And then the only thing you have to put your
picture to put your CV and that's it, and everybody
in Israel can vote for you.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
The vote goes like this.
Speaker 5 (39:29):
You are once you are eighteen, then the only thing
that you have to tick that you're eighteen years old
and that you're an Israeli citizen, and that's it, and
you can vote. You can vote up to ten people.
And what we have done something that no one did before.
(39:49):
If you regret because there is another name joined the list,
you can delete the one that you vote for him
and can change it to somebody else. Until we are
closing the list, which will be something like forty five
days before the election date.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Oh so people will really be able to pick This
is a really open list.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
I wasn't expecting it to be. So I was expecting
to say, oh, in thirty days or something. Okay, wow,
that's I really wasn't expecting that. That to me is
a very modern and I would say very technological, Like
it's the kind of thing that I would expect to
see in the Nordic countries or in the Netherlands or
(40:30):
somewhere where where they would have integrated the.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Technology and politics a bit better. But in Israel.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
Wow, let me supprise you in one most things.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 5 (40:37):
I am myself. I'm myself also one of the members
that they can vote. Also, I am the chairman. But
I want to show that even if I will get
like number ten or number nine on the list, the
amount of vote, I am not ashamed to show what
(41:00):
people are thinking about me. And definitely, after one election,
the chairman.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
Will have to be elected as well.
Speaker 5 (41:09):
But hit on this election, I am the chairman, but
all the west will be elected from the portal.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
So so far other than you, every it will be
the list afterwards. Okay, that's wow, And that's something that
is that kind of I want to say, political openness
and a political party here is very rare. Most parties
aren't so willing to allow the voters to be that
that open with their choices. That's actually really interesting. Okay, Avi,
(41:41):
that's this has been a very very interesting conversation. I've
I've really enjoyed this. Thank you for coming. And if
you've got any final words you want to tell people,
please let them know again.
Speaker 5 (41:52):
I want to promise all the cities and free as well,
that BEAT is a party that is going to take
care of you, all of you. All the Israeli citizens
will be glad that such a party exists and such
(42:12):
a party is supporting them. So before I am asking
you to support me, I am promising you that I
will support you whoever you are.
Speaker 4 (42:24):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
This episode was hosted by u Val Barnaire. Editing and
production were done by u Val Barnaia and Shepherd Jacobs.
For more information on JP's podcasts, check the description of
this episode,
This is JPO sits down with Well we dive into
the heart of as well as the most important stories.
Today we sit down with Avi Shakhad, chairman of this
Together we will succeed political party.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
How do you go from negotiating with Donald Trump to
yasa Arafat? Avi Shaquetd is with us today to explain
his journey from the Israeli business world to politics.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
Avi, thank you for.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
Joining us, Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
So give us a little bit of background where you
come from and.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
Just so we get a sense of who you are.
Speaker 5 (00:30):
I am Bowen in Israel, graduate in Bengorian University, finish
my degree as a chemical engineering work as a teacher
in the Jordan Valley in the Kibutim area, in the
Unit area, and was also a chemical engineering over there,
(00:54):
doing two jobs teacher.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
And engineer in the army.
Speaker 5 (01:02):
I was a major in the communication corps. Have three children,
nine grand children, that's me.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
So how did you then get into sort of these
interfaith discussions, because that doesn't to me, that doesn't seem
like a very obvious path to really getting into this
trying to draw connections across the community. So where where
did that come from?
Speaker 5 (01:29):
It's a good question. I can't tell. I think maybe
it was in the seventy three War while I was
a soldier nineteen years old. I think that the trauma
for that war make me believe that there is another way,
and there is not always the way of war. A
(01:53):
collage leader should always think on two options, take the
war or take the the the other way which is negotiate,
which is try to solve it with different way than war.
And there are so many different ways than war. I
(02:16):
think that we haven't even touched the tip of the eyes.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
So with that, something.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
You say, when you were growing up, how much interaction
did you have with people from other faiths, because especially
at that time in Israel, it wasn't it wasn't so
common to run across other people with different faiths. We
tended to live quite separately.
Speaker 4 (02:42):
Correct, you are absolutely white.
Speaker 5 (02:44):
I was born on nineteen fifty three, so until the
Six Day War, I was fourteen years old, and you're white.
I didn't have much interaction. So everything came not after
the Sixth Day War. Everything came to me after the
(03:07):
seventies Way War. When you face the war, either you
take an action or either you agree with what's happening,
I decide to take an action.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
So then it seems to me that this has been
a very large part of your life, something that you've
been very deeply involved with, or I don't know how
deeply involved with, something you've definitely been involved with for
a long time.
Speaker 3 (03:34):
Give me a sense.
Speaker 2 (03:35):
Of how you think that's changed since the seventies, How
has interfaith interactions in Israel changed since the seventies, or
that might be too broad. If you want to know, You're.
Speaker 5 (03:47):
Like you know, the question is always depend on the
person that you ask him, because from my point of view,
nothing has been changed. And that is so strange because
most of the people became extreme and extreme as the
time goes on, and I never became an extreme because
(04:09):
I am still in my position that there is another
way to solve the situation and to put the end
on the conflict in the area. I believe so, and
I never changed my mind. So it's easy for a
person like me because I still keeping my idea that
(04:36):
the conflict is bad mainly and here you will become
shocked mainly because of business, mainly because of money, because
the money that we spend is fifty billion shakel since
the Sixth Day War, and those fifty billion sharp is
(05:01):
today accumulate to two point five trillion sekel. And this
is numbers that people can't feel. I am, as a businessman,
understand the numbers. People are not usually talking about trillions,
and people are not talking about billions as well. Those
(05:22):
numbers sings to them strange.
Speaker 4 (05:25):
They just wake up in the morning and need to
pay the bills, as we say.
Speaker 5 (05:32):
But for me, as a businessman, I understand that there
is another way to spend the money, and Israel could
become a dwim a state that touries will come, everything
will be changed here if we will keep the money
(05:54):
and not spend it.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
But if I'm getting you correctly, it's for you.
Speaker 2 (05:58):
You think that a lot arge amount of this is
just sort of a waste of resources that we're not getting.
We're effectively spending billions of shekel to defend something that's
not actually getting us anywhere. If that's what I'm hearing
from you, that it's not actually getting us something. You know,
if we spend that money and we got something concrete back,
(06:20):
it would be different. But you're saying that we're not
getting anything really.
Speaker 5 (06:23):
From my point of view, we are not editing anything.
I understand that there is another parting as well that
do think different. But if they will convince me that
two point five trillion schekel is not a waste, then
I'm willing to negotiate with them, or to argue with them,
(06:45):
or to try to convince them, or to let them
convince me. You see, the point here is if we
can look one step ahead of us, only one step,
what life will look like, if the conflict will be ended.
And this is something that no one is doing, and
(07:08):
I'm willing to take you only this step. This step
will let people cross to the West Bank whenever they
want and walk there whenever they want, without any problem
of being attacked, and going to is Jerusalem to the
(07:30):
Walling Wall without being attacked. Why, because we will let
the other side have their own country. Once they have
their own state, they will control it better than what
we are doing today.
Speaker 4 (07:47):
What we are trying to do.
Speaker 5 (07:48):
We are trying to defend our settlers living in the
West Bank today. But if we will let those settlers
stay there, live there, they will be defendant much better
than the Israeli army. And this is one step that
no one is willing to consider it, and I insist
(08:13):
that the Palestinian will take care on the settlers much
better than the Israeli army is taking care definitely, if
much more people can go and visit the West Bank,
so it's going to be tourists coming to the West Bank,
So it's going to be two way sweet. And whenever
(08:33):
there is a two way sweet, this is a solution,
and this is where I'm aiming for.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
So, if I'm hearing properly, what you're saying is that
we kind of have to maybe paradigm shift how we
view the conflict, because up until now, effectively the idea
has always been, well, we're not going to leave any
Jews in Arab held territory anywhere that's handed over to
the Palestinian state, or the Jews will be pulled out.
(09:02):
But you're saying that maybe that's not the right way
to think about it, and that we should instead maybe
think we're going to have to trust them anyway. We
will have to trust that the Jews living there will
be safe. That's correct, That's correct, And let me say
a little bit more. Let's put some numbers here. Okay, today,
if we will keep our weal if we will keep
(09:22):
male domin and if we will keep Gushatsi on those
sweet territories.
Speaker 5 (09:27):
Are understanding that whatever whenever we put the end of
the conflict, those places are going to be kept in
as well. The rest is thirty two thousand household of families.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
This is the number.
Speaker 5 (09:44):
Of course, any one family in the West Bank is
important to me, of course, But when I'm saying thirty
two thousand, which means that those thirty two thousands will
have the two options either to stay there, which I
hope that they will agree to stay there. I don't
(10:06):
want them to move away like what happened in Gaza,
what arielation around did. I hope that they will stay.
But of course if they would like to move back
to Israel, we will give them the same house they
head in the West Bank. But I'm saying, and I'm
talking to those thirty two thousand people, families, Please, you
(10:29):
have to believe that no one wants to hurt you,
and you have to believe that the Palestinian has other
side than what we are today seeing.
Speaker 4 (10:41):
And why is that?
Speaker 5 (10:43):
Because today we don't find the Palestinian state, we find
only terrorists.
Speaker 4 (10:50):
That's coming to attack.
Speaker 5 (10:52):
And have you ever noticed that there is no terrorist
in Palestine? And why is there because they want to
take care. They know how to take care on their
people citizens, even though there is no it's not a
state here yet, it's only authority, Palestinian authority. But whenever
(11:15):
it will become a state, definitely, And I knows those people.
They knows to gaverning their citizen much better than what
we are doing today. I hope that our only problem
is to govern the Jewish people and the Israeli citizens,
(11:37):
including of course the Arabs that are living in Israel.
Speaker 4 (11:41):
I hope that they will be the only mission.
Speaker 5 (11:44):
And if I might take you to another point now
I just mentioned the Israeli Arabs. We do have a
crime problem in the Israeli Arabs. And why is that
it because we do not have enough power to handle
(12:05):
and the police people are fantastic. The only problem is
that the resources are going to the border, which there
is no border, which there is a wall, all those options,
so of course the police is occupying in doing things
(12:26):
that whenever will end the conflict, such a problem will
not exist anymore, and then we can use the police
the same as all over the world. The same in
every country that the police detail the people that are
going to make a crime in order not to do it,
(12:49):
and that's the purpose of police. Police today are doing
army jobs and this is not right because when you
ask them to do this friend job, it's like that
I will ask you to become a pilot tomorrow. It's difficult,
and that's what we're asking the police to become. You
know those people, the policemen are so brave. They have
(13:13):
showed us how they sacrificed their life in the October seventh.
They were the first to respond before the soldiers and
I salute to the police. So what I'm saying that
the Arabs in Israel that are expecting from the government
(13:33):
to take action against the crime, once we will have
we will put the end to the conflict. We will
have all the resources to help the Israeli Arabs and
to represent them in the government and to have ministers
that are Arabs today, So it's going to be different
(13:58):
situation in Israel. People are how to believe because of
I understand why you have to be You have to
be a strong person with a strong belief in looking
on the future and be optimistic and as my books
say taking whisk. I understand that I am taking whisk
(14:22):
but all my life is a businessman, I was taking whisks.
Speaker 2 (14:25):
I was just gonna say that that's very much a
different attitude than you see from actually something. This is
a little bit off topic, but I was going to say,
you don't see very many There's not as many businessmen,
I would say, in that cannested as you would see
in many other countries parliaments, and maybe that is a
little bit reflective in the fact that they're less willing
to take risks to get payoffs. But you sort of
(14:47):
answered my next question, which was to ask you, so
how did you get to biachat the Netlia.
Speaker 4 (14:51):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
So you've answered it a little bit, But tell me
what was the exact trigger, because I know you ran
against year ago Laan and I know you kind of
disagree with his decision to merge the two parties. So
let's hear a little bit about that.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
Thank you.
Speaker 5 (15:07):
I was a member on the Labor Party for the
last four tears, and I was involved in the politicals
when I was young. Then I switched to the business.
I was engineering in the Israel aircraft industry. Then I
jumped to the politics. I was the secretary of the
(15:27):
Labor Party in the Israeli aircraft industry. But then I
decide to move and to go to business. I did it,
and always I was looking on the other options of
doing things. For example, on two thousand, there were two
(15:51):
twig girls. Okay, so let me start with the first one.
The first twig girl was two thousands when Bawak came
from Camp David after Bill Clinton was trying to make
the last move to help us and there was not
enough courage from Barack to to shake the arapat hand
(16:11):
and to withdraw to sixty seven.
Speaker 3 (16:13):
This is the two thousand and yeah.
Speaker 5 (16:15):
When he mentioned there is no partner, well, we didn't
have internally, Barack was not the right partner.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
But that's the way. That's Democrat.
Speaker 5 (16:27):
And then Josie Bilin came to me and say, Avi,
I just went out of the government.
Speaker 4 (16:37):
Can you offer me any job? I said, sure.
Speaker 5 (16:39):
What What was the last one that you did out
of a minister of justice? He said, I was continueing
negotiation after the King David collapsed in Taba. I said, wow,
can you continue doing it? He said yes, it's a
lot of money. I said, I will support it, and
everything was in my office in a day dot com.
(17:03):
I apologize for doing it, but I admit everything was
done in my office.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
And you'll see.
Speaker 5 (17:15):
Connected to other people like I'm no lip Lipkin Shakra,
I'm Mitzna Dave Kimri almost as Giova in Bar and
hammarin Shaol really Shlomo Brom I apologize, draw Steven Shoes okay,
(17:46):
and the and the Ron Pundak and round okay. I
think that I cover all of them. And there we
were sixteen people and the Rombourg and Jolitamire okay, I
got all of them.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
And when you negotiate, yasbe Rabo, the.
Speaker 5 (18:08):
Counterpart was sent by Yassa Rafat and he was bringing
his people Caduafares, et cetera. And we were starting negotiating.
The time was terrible, so many buses were exploding in Israel,
(18:29):
terrible murders, terrible attacks. But we continue and it ended
with the Geneva Code. So I am taking the responsibility
of pushing Yo sibailin to do the Geneva Code. And
it's ended with a beautiful contract that was putting the
(18:52):
end of the conflict.
Speaker 4 (18:53):
So that was my first Tigre.
Speaker 5 (18:55):
Why because I thought that I'm bringing peace immediately Ariel
Sharon was withdrawing from Gaza and that put the end
of the Geneva Code and everything continued without ending the conflict.
So that was my first wiggirl that I was putting
(19:18):
three years of negotiation with the Palestinians. By at least
I achieved something, a document that Arafat gave the permission
to sign.
Speaker 3 (19:30):
Which we as we know, is a hard thing.
Speaker 5 (19:32):
Oh, it was the most difficult things for them to
agree to. Some you know, you negotiate something, you gain, something,
you lose. But that negotiation, that's a business. And that
was the first wig girl. Then I continue doing more
money and more money to myself, and then I decided
(19:54):
to compete, as you mentioned, against Yargolan to become the
the chairman of the Labor Party. I knew that I
have small chances. Yagolan at that time was the hero
of October seventh. So I compete with them, and I
(20:17):
said only one things. Without the Israeli Arabs, we don't
have any chance to get to go for an office
or to get the prime minister. The Labor Party will
continue to be a small party unless we will make
a block with the Israeli Arabs.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
And I lost.
Speaker 5 (20:43):
After I lost, people from Tamra called me and said, look,
we heard your campaign and we would like to host you.
I came to Tamra and there was a group of
people saying, look, why don't we establish h and Israeli
Arabs party.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
I was shocked. I said, how come no one ever
thought about it before? And the guy.
Speaker 5 (21:14):
That mentioned it, his name is drar m Rich from
Tama and today he is my palt Now, so.
Speaker 3 (21:21):
That's I was going to ask how that came together.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
But that's a very interesting that's a really like wow,
and he writes a mega guesh, but like it's a
very sort of It gets a nice feeling in you.
This that even out of losing the leadership election, you
still ended up finding the right group of people who
were also interested in the same sort of political vision
as you. So I think that's that's also a really
(21:43):
good lesson in general in politics, that even if you
lose the election, you might end up with something good
coming out of it anyway. So okay, So so they
came to you and they and they said, let's start
a party. And what did you say, what was your
reaction to that, and how did you get to the
point you guys are now complete?
Speaker 5 (22:02):
I said where you're coming from? And he said, you know,
most of the Israeli Arabs want to be represented in
the government.
Speaker 4 (22:12):
I said what he said, Yes.
Speaker 5 (22:15):
The majority is willing to compromise and not to be
represented by the Ahm Tibi A'manuda.
Speaker 3 (22:28):
The Masura, the old joint list.
Speaker 4 (22:30):
The old joint is correct.
Speaker 5 (22:32):
What they want is to be represented, and this is
why they never going to vote, and this is why
it's only fifteen men that in the Knesset that they
have the joint.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
So quickly, I'll just explain in case our viewers aren't
aware that up until I would say, up until Mansurabas
in twenty twenty, I don't remember which election it was,
but twenty two when he said he'd work with the government.
Speaker 4 (22:59):
It was before even with Bennett.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
But yeah, so up until that point, essentially the main
way that our political parties it worked was that they
just said they weren't going to work with anybody, and
that it was essentially a bit of a protest vote,
if I'm getting it correctly. So what you're saying is
now that there is a significant block out there that
are saying we aren't happy with this and we want
(23:20):
actual representation, not just someone who's going to collect the
check and not do anything. I have to say I
heard that from some of my friends too, but they're
perhaps not so politically willing to go out and do things.
Speaker 3 (23:31):
So what was the next step after that?
Speaker 5 (23:32):
So next step I said, look, let's make a poll
and we went to Manugeva, and Manugeva.
Speaker 4 (23:39):
Is I think it's the best.
Speaker 5 (23:42):
I don't want to say that the adults are not,
but I'm saying he has credential that he is good.
And I said, Manu, please make a selvy and ask
how many of them, and the result were fantastic.
Speaker 4 (23:57):
Seventy percent of the.
Speaker 5 (24:00):
Israeli Arabs want to be represented in the government, which
means that until today they didn't have such a way
to be representative and they want to be represented. So
I said, okay, let's move and then we decided how
the party will be looked like. So the party is
(24:21):
fifty percent Jewish, fifty percent Arabs, fifty percent women, fifty
percent men, and we have to amend the success as
of now.
Speaker 2 (24:34):
And so that brings me in the next question, what's
your what are you looking at as your main voter demographic?
I know there's obviously in Israeli Arab demographic. How much
are you expecting also the Jewish population to vote for
this because we've seen in the past that it tends
to be that when you have this kind of party,
it tends to be much more heavily. The voters tend
to be much more Arab than they do tend to
be Jewish. So what are your concerns with that? What
(24:57):
are your plans for that?
Speaker 5 (24:59):
I can tell you that the Israeli Arabs is one
point one million people.
Speaker 4 (25:08):
That have the right to vote.
Speaker 5 (25:10):
I believe, I believe that for every Israeli Arabs that
want to represented in the government and want to have a.
Speaker 3 (25:21):
Du quium coexistence, some of some more coexistence.
Speaker 4 (25:25):
So most of them want the coexistence.
Speaker 5 (25:29):
And I believe that for every one point one million
Israeli Arabs that will go to vote, there is one
Jewish that will have the same feelings. So if there
is one point one million Israeli Arabs that want the coexisting,
(25:52):
there is also one point one million Jewish that want
the coexisting and that's it. If will have of the
two point two million people that will go to vote,
I am the next Prime Minister of Israel.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
So that's great, and I we we'd love positive thinking
and optimism, but let's let's be a pessimist for now,
because that's I think unfortunately a lot of the modern
age were very pessimistic. What's the problem with this? How
how can you tell me that there will be all
(26:31):
these people? But if you're say the average Jerusalemites or
the average you know, the average person living in the
in the West Bank, how can you say this?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
They're living their whole lives with regular.
Speaker 2 (26:43):
Attacks and constant feelings of inadequate safety and the idea
that every day they might there could be a stabbing
or shooting or something. So how how do you convince
these people that there is actually a path and that
there is actually a way to do this?
Speaker 5 (26:58):
You mentioned the main problem, and that's it. Either you
are an optimist or order you are a pessimist. I
believe that most of the people that are afraid are pessimist.
I believe that all the brave people are optimist. And
in order to be in Israel an optimist, you need
(27:23):
to be a brave person and I believe that internally,
I am brave because I'm willing to take the risk
because I'm not what is what is on the way.
What is the situation if I will not be an
optimistic or what is the situation if I will be
(27:44):
pessimistic and the pessimistic will always go to the war
and the optimist will always go to end the conflict.
I do understand that I am not representing one hand
percent of the population in Israel, but I do believe
(28:05):
that I represent at least two point two million voters.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Say there's someone sitting at home and they're sort of
very nervous. Say they live in one of the settlements
that you're saying, No one of the three blocks you
mentioned that will stay with Israel. But say one of
the smaller settlements, and they'll say to you, Oh, that's
all well and good. I'll get a house in Israel.
A lot of this, but I want to stay here
for religious reasons. I believe this is the place, you know,
(28:32):
where Abraham lived, It's where Jacob died, It's all of
these things.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
What would you say to this person.
Speaker 5 (28:37):
I will respect him, and I will protect him, and
I will take whatever needed in order to fulfill his needs.
In order to fulfill his belief I also Jewish. I'll
also believe in Mehrata, Macpela and Pevron, in kevra Rell,
all those locations, even in Kevar yourself. You know those
(29:00):
people that want to go there and to play. I
always respect them. The only way to respect those people
is only if we will let the Palestinian have their
own state and let the Palestinian protect them by committing
to the world. To me and you know what we
(29:23):
have so strong army in Israel. I am as a major.
I know exactly what the power of Israeli army. Of
course we will be protecting them. Of course we will
take all the necessary steps that they will have better life,
not words, better life, because.
Speaker 4 (29:43):
They will have a free way of.
Speaker 5 (29:48):
Walking around, driving around, coming every day to working Israel,
doing whatever they want. Those people that will be in
the West Bank will have better life.
Speaker 4 (30:01):
I can assure them. I can give them my world.
Speaker 5 (30:06):
That that's the main issue that I will handle with
the Palestinian authority just before we are signed the contract.
The contract is only to defend those people.
Speaker 4 (30:19):
The only.
Speaker 5 (30:21):
Way to have those people be protected is by letting
the Palestinian have their own state. Those simple things are
so obvious that I can't understand how all the leaders
in Israel, which were very we were very smart, very brave,
(30:42):
but all of them being influenced by those people that
were pessimists. I'm not saying that there are bad people.
I'm saying there are bad that there are only pessimists.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
And only if.
Speaker 5 (30:59):
We will have the other way, if we will let
the optimistic people, business people, people.
Speaker 4 (31:07):
That are willing to take risks.
Speaker 5 (31:09):
And this is a risk I do understand, because every
step that you want to change something means that you
want to take a risk. Unfortunately, to take the risk
that we are taking is just to protect against terror,
and that's the only risk that we are doing.
Speaker 4 (31:31):
But this is the wrong way.
Speaker 5 (31:33):
There is other way, and the other way is to
let to take the risk, but to take the risks
in order to let them have a better life, in
order to let me twavel to Mahrata Mapela freely by
no checkpoint at all. Of course at the beginning, it's
(31:53):
going to be some checkpoint, etcetera. But think about the future.
You've allved the future is like that. You can have
the same as the EU, we're doing a free area.
We can do it in the Middle East.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
So if I'm not sure if you're gonna like this
comparison too much, but it does sound a little bit like,
at least in terms of your approach to the conflict,
that you have a bit of a similar view to
Trump in that the business world is the way to
do peace rather than necessarily sitting around political table, but
(32:31):
that you can you can get a lot more done
through focusing on the business world. I don't know if
you're gonna like that comparison.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
I'm going to give you here a scope.
Speaker 3 (32:41):
Okay, Okay.
Speaker 5 (32:42):
In two thousand and eleven, the Supreme Court in the
United States agree that every state in the United States
will have their own white to give license for online gaming. Okay,
And immediately we got the license in Nevada and in
(33:02):
the Delaware, and then New Jelsey came and Chrissy was
the the state governor. Yeah, and he said, look, I
have ten land based casino, which one of them was
the Twamp Tower, not Trump Casino in New Jelsey, and
(33:27):
he gave to each of them one license. So Twamp
asked his staff look over the world and give me
the best online casino, and they find eight eight and
we negotiate with them and we signed a contract. So
I'm saying that I am the only ISUELI that ever
(33:48):
signed a contract with s Twamp. I can tell you
that he is a fantastic businessman. And what happened here
is another scope. Sheldon Edelson was against me because he
has his land based casinos and I have the online
and we always were fighting with people that help us lobbist.
(34:10):
And then when Twamps start with us, then Sheldon rest
in peace say to Trump, look while you are doing it,
you better do other things and say, yeah, I have
a dream to become a president.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Okay, you know, forget the online.
Speaker 5 (34:32):
And then Twamp came to us and said, look, apologize,
I'm breaking the deal with you. I have other dreams
in my life. And he went to become the president.
And I fully admire this person as a businessman, and
I hope to have the same ability to become as
(34:55):
good as he is today by bringing the end to
the conflict.
Speaker 4 (35:00):
I do know that I have a partner in the
White House.
Speaker 5 (35:04):
I do know that you want come to every situation
as a businessman the same as I am I'm looking
on this end of conflict conflict only as a businessman, and.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
I think that's, uh, that's something that I would say
if I'm thinking back at all the previous peace negotiations
and peace plans and all these they always seem to
have come from a very military political echelon of of
maybe people who spent their whole lives working in government
(35:40):
and focusing on this. So it's quite interesting to hear
very much this perspective of actually business will will help
us bring peace, and that it's it's working together to
make money that tends to help help bring people together.
And I think that's that's really interesting to me. Actually
that's not something it's and then we don't really hear
(36:00):
about so much. Here is the business side of everything.
Let's let's talk a little bit about the book Important
a couple copies for ust have a look at. It's
a great title. How did you, How did you get
to the book? And what's the talk about? And why
why shoud people go read the book.
Speaker 5 (36:17):
If they are interesting to know how I started from
nothing and how I became a billionaire and why the
money is not important to me? The end of the
conflict is more important, and I can say that the
book start with what you will do with one billion dollar?
(36:40):
And what I decided to do is to give it
to a stranger. That's how the book start. So I'm
not going to say more, but I invite to people
to read. I explained to people in the book how
I started and how I fail, and again I started
(37:00):
another mission and then I failed. So what I'm trying
to say in the book, when you fail, it's not
a reason to withdraw.
Speaker 4 (37:10):
When you fail, you have.
Speaker 5 (37:12):
To stand up and start again with something different which
will be better. And that's what I did. I call
it like steps, like climbing steps, and until you are
feeling that you have achieved a white step that you
can stand and that's it for you. It's not that
(37:34):
you succeed, that you have achieved of a level that
you are satisfied with it. But it's never end. There
is no end. There is I don't call a word
of success. I do think that you have to move
on always and to move on and to move on
(37:55):
there is no end. The same as I was moving
from business to politics. Now it's just another move on.
So always you have to move off. Always you have
to look for the for whatever can be done, whatever
you can what what else you can change, so people
(38:15):
who have better life.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
And that's that's actually a really good message I think
also for the for the political sphere here as well,
that you have to do things step by step and
little by little things things will change and hopefully they
also get better.
Speaker 3 (38:29):
Let's talk about about there.
Speaker 2 (38:32):
There will be an election in within like by at
least November of next year. Whether the government collapses before then,
who knows. How how how are you preparing for this
and are we going to get any shall we say,
interesting people on your list that we will have heard
of before.
Speaker 5 (38:53):
Thank you for the question. We are the only party
that having an open primaries, which means to have a portal.
And here I am offering to anyone that's watching to
become part of our list. By join the party. You
have just to agree with what I've said, or if
(39:13):
you are in Israeli Arabs, with what Drahim Rich is saying.
And then the only thing you have to put your
picture to put your CV and that's it, and everybody
in Israel can vote for you.
Speaker 4 (39:27):
The vote goes like this.
Speaker 5 (39:29):
You are once you are eighteen, then the only thing
that you have to tick that you're eighteen years old
and that you're an Israeli citizen, and that's it, and
you can vote. You can vote up to ten people.
And what we have done something that no one did before.
(39:49):
If you regret because there is another name joined the list,
you can delete the one that you vote for him
and can change it to somebody else. Until we are
closing the list, which will be something like forty five
days before the election date.
Speaker 2 (40:04):
Oh so people will really be able to pick This
is a really open list.
Speaker 4 (40:08):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (40:08):
I wasn't expecting it to be. So I was expecting
to say, oh, in thirty days or something. Okay, wow,
that's I really wasn't expecting that. That to me is
a very modern and I would say very technological, Like
it's the kind of thing that I would expect to
see in the Nordic countries or in the Netherlands or
(40:30):
somewhere where where they would have integrated the.
Speaker 3 (40:32):
Technology and politics a bit better. But in Israel.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
Wow, let me supprise you in one most things.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 5 (40:37):
I am myself. I'm myself also one of the members
that they can vote. Also, I am the chairman. But
I want to show that even if I will get
like number ten or number nine on the list, the
amount of vote, I am not ashamed to show what
(41:00):
people are thinking about me. And definitely, after one election,
the chairman.
Speaker 4 (41:06):
Will have to be elected as well.
Speaker 5 (41:09):
But hit on this election, I am the chairman, but
all the west will be elected from the portal.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
So so far other than you, every it will be
the list afterwards. Okay, that's wow, And that's something that
is that kind of I want to say, political openness
and a political party here is very rare. Most parties
aren't so willing to allow the voters to be that
that open with their choices. That's actually really interesting. Okay, Avi,
(41:41):
that's this has been a very very interesting conversation. I've
I've really enjoyed this. Thank you for coming. And if
you've got any final words you want to tell people,
please let them know again.
Speaker 5 (41:52):
I want to promise all the cities and free as well,
that BEAT is a party that is going to take
care of you, all of you. All the Israeli citizens
will be glad that such a party exists and such
(42:12):
a party is supporting them. So before I am asking
you to support me, I am promising you that I
will support you whoever you are.
Speaker 4 (42:24):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
This episode was hosted by u Val Barnaire. Editing and
production were done by u Val Barnaia and Shepherd Jacobs.
For more information on JP's podcasts, check the description of
this episode,
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