Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I have declared or against my brain in order to see.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
That won's don't seem to.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
So long.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
So long as I know they will do one time
stop from.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
The days, I don't have.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
To pretty good idea I thought. I didn't know. I
don't really know. I thought that you could see me
all the time that we've been doing, not that it's
important that you see me. An, it was a pretty
good image in my mom I do I do. I
do watch the YouTube, some of the YouTube re broadcasts,
(00:42):
so I have a pretty good image of what what
the setting is there. Well, you know, I uh, I
woke up this morning and I knew, uh, the last
podcast we did was you know, like at six am
becomes available. So I'm up early and I'm thinking to myself,
(01:05):
oh oh six am, like, oh, let me see if
this is let me see what's going on here. So
I go to the YouTube channel. That's how I watch.
I don't even do what Kaitlin says, Hey, could all
of the people please, I don't even go to have
to come in. I don't even go to Spotify and
(01:26):
press the right numbers. I'm just like watching it on YouTube.
Speaker 3 (01:30):
I will say that if you do go to Spotify
or Apple, I start releasing the episodes earlier than the
YouTube show. You want to go subscribe on Apple or Spotify,
you're going to get the show.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
This is from Spotify before I get anything on YouTube.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
Well, what I noticed today, you know, I watched this.
I've always said, like, you know, I'm gonna kind of
watch these things back and see how we come across
and just back like in the old days, I used
to go to dailies. So do I watch my old films? Yeah,
you know, I'll watch that. So I was watching this
(02:07):
and one of the things that I noticed today is
that there seem to be a YouTube seemed to be
like a hell of a lot more advertising they've done
in the past. Like in the past, it was like, okay,
they do like one or two. But I find myself
picking up the phone and maybe there's a reason for it,
(02:29):
kle and I found myself up like YouTube like like
you know, commercial coming up and me having to skip it,
and a commercial coming up and me having to skip
it and another commercial like ten times, like twelve times.
So maybe we're doing something right. Well, that was my bad.
Speaker 3 (02:44):
I fucked that one. If you don't disengage it YouTube
will automatically put in like a bunch of ads like
just they just decide and they'll put in a shipload
of them. So I normally disengage it and then I
pick like two or three spots to put that. But
I accidentally didn't disengage it, so it was going with
my spots I put in and its own ones. So
my bad.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
But it's all fixed now, I got Well, I guess,
go ahead.
Speaker 1 (03:08):
What what What concerns me are the ads that my
algorithm is popping up, like, you know, the secret to
keeping your man hard? Why is that coming to me?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
You know?
Speaker 1 (03:20):
What is there about my shirt history that generates these
you know, boner pill ads? You can get viagra for
eighty seven cents a pill. Why am I getting this ad?
Speaker 2 (03:31):
I've been getting that those ads too, just on my phone.
Because it's not viagra. It's just like a new boner
pill now right, yeah, yeah what it is? Yeah, lasts longer, yeah,
secret effects our immediate.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (03:50):
I've never yeah, I never understood with the whole Diddy thing,
like fucking three days like what like really like she's
having sex for three days and he's watching and doing
his fucking pleasuring himself like for three days. I mean, like, anyway,
(04:10):
that's some crazy as shit. It's funny because I'm not funny.
But I thought I called Jim up recently, yesterday. It
was yesterday. They were, yeah, yeah, you called Jim up
yesterday just to let him know that we were going
to be doing the podcast now at eleven, and uh,
(04:32):
uh told him that I thought that I would maybe
maybe talk a little bit about The Rock, because I
hadn't really spoken that much about The Rock. And Jim
started talking about this, and we started talking about Jerry Bruckheimer,
and then you know, then that led to something else,
(04:54):
and pretty soon we were on to a movie called
Thief that Jimmy Kahn was starring, you know where. It's
just like completely so last night, Jim, all right, uh,
did you watch The Rock last night?
Speaker 1 (05:10):
I sure did. Yeah, absolutely good. Okay, And I hadn't
and I hadn't seen it since it was released, and
I had pretty much the same reaction. This is just
a top notch popcorn movie, yeah, you know, really really
good quality. And I was struck by the similarity between
three movies that came out at that time, The Rock,
(05:31):
in the Line of Fire and Under Siege, the pretty
good Steven Siegal movie, you know, with Tommy Lee Jones.
They all deal with him, They all exactly, so that's
why it stands out. Had a really good director behind
it too, But they all deal with disgruntled former you know,
(05:53):
special ops guys who have a grievance against the government
and they're going to do some big, grandiose gesture. And
they're all very you know and attaining successful movies. They
all came out around the same time.
Speaker 2 (06:03):
Well, I started, you know, I got into the whole
Michael Mann thing and Thief, and I remember the movie
Thief and really really liking Thief, and.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
It's very watchable. It holds up beautifully. Forty five years
after it came out. I saw it again, maybe six
months ago. I could sit down, you know, after we
do this podcast and watch it again and be as
charmed and enthralled by it as I was the first
time I saw it. It holds up that well, I believe.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Yeah. I watched it last night and I just thought
it was so good. I think I think Michael Mann
was one of the first directors, and they probably were
doing it back in the old days. But I think
Michael Man is people acknowledge him for like always wedding
down the streets. Yes, so he went down all the streets.
(06:55):
So all the lights that are coming.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
At night, all the night, yeah, all the night exteriors
it's just rained.
Speaker 2 (07:02):
I think, yeah, it's raining. And not only do you
see the lights that are out in front of you, you
see all the lights bouncing off the off the ground.
And I you know.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
For first he got that that score, that musical score
from Can.
Speaker 2 (07:20):
Yeah. Yeah, it's a Robert Prosky is in it, and
Robert Robert Prosky placed the bad guy. And Robert was
in Lords of Discipline, played Bear the bear pretty pretty
substantial part. Yeah, and he has a pretty substantial part
in Thief too. Thief is you know, I've got to
go back and look at the other one that he
(07:41):
did with Paccino and de Niro and Valence. He yeah,
I've got to go back and look that. But I
this movie was so so good, and they started getting
on the dream con thing. So then I watched that
movie and I thought, like, Jimmy Kahn, I just I
just love Jimmy Kahn.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
He said, good in that movie.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I started watching a movie called Comes Comes a Horseman.
Are you familiar with that, Jim, it's Alan familiar. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
Written by Dennis Linton Clark. He was a client of
ours that I see him. Alan Pecola directed.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
I didn't know Alan, you know i'd seen that, yeah,
like ten years ten, fifteen years ago. I'd seen the
movie and I remembered really liking it, and I saw
it like, well, I'll just watch this again, so credits
come up, Alan pecool. I'm like, oh my god, who
I met twice and I had lunchrous one time. And
(08:37):
he's just the nicest guy in there.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
Oh, smart guy. He produced before he started directing. He
was one of the few people who made a really
smooth transition from producing to directing. And he produced To
Kill a Mockingbird yeah, way back when, and then uh,
you know, came along and directing towards the end of
the sixties.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Directed.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
He directed a really kind of interesting Warren Baiting movie
called The Parallax View. Have you ever seen that?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Yeah? I could never understand that it's one of those ones,
but it's I liked the movie. I still well, he's
He's done a lot of great movies. Did Sophy's Choice,
which I think I met him for it and one
of my favorite movies I can watch over and over
and over again is All the Presidents Men. I mean
that just is a beautiful absolutely absolutely, But so yeah,
(09:32):
you know, I thought that maybe I would talk a
little bit about The Rock just because it's you know,
it's Michael Bay. And Michael Bay had done Bad Boys,
and there was an interesting process and I talked to
you about it a little bit yesterday, Jim. But Michael
Michael Bay had done Bad Boys, and I think the
(09:54):
way that I remember hearing about it was that Jerry
Bruckharmer saw all that and and and and at that
point in his life, uh, said to Michael Bay, you know,
we're working on this movie called The Rock, and uh,
I don't know, maybe Nicholas Cage was, uh, you know,
(10:18):
attached to it. And by the way, Nicholas Cages just
carries that movie. He's just really fabulous in that movie,
really really really really good and entertaining and fun and
funny and serious.
Speaker 1 (10:32):
Michael Bay directed Bad Boys.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
No I know. That's what I'm saying, is he directed,
and I'm not talking about Bad Boys now, I'm talking Okay.
You know, I thought we knew each other well enough
that we weren't gonna fucking like like not understand what
each other we're talking about. Jim all right. Uh So anyway,
(10:55):
so so so I think that Ry Bruckheimer, uh, you know,
said to Michael Bay after you saw Bad Boys, and
I'm working on this movie called The Rock and and
and you know, we don't really have a real script,
complete script, would really like you to do it. And
(11:16):
I think I'm not mistaken. I think that Michael Bay
was a little bit hesitant because there wasn't a real script.
And uh, this is certainly before I got involved. I
got I got called in and and just got offered
that that role in that movie. And I met and uh,
(11:36):
I went and met uh Jerry and uh Michael uh
and just you know, went over it was down what
are those studios that are down by MGM kind of
like in that yeah, kind of Clover City. I think
it was down there, you know. Yeah. I had a
(11:57):
little meeting with him. We like you to play this role,
and and uh, you know, we offer this, you know,
like it's probably after the deal had gone through or whatever,
you know, and I really all all I can. Uh.
One of the things that I remember about the about
the meeting was I don't know what I had done before,
(12:20):
you know, because I've been through my phone and I've
been through like all the movies that I've done, and
I really didn't drink, like seriously, I'm very only just
a few actually, well one I one I had like
a disaster on and maybe it had to do with booth.
I mean, I was drinking, but it was my life
(12:41):
was kind of falling apart in different directions. And but anyway, Jerry,
Jerry said to me, like, let's let's, you know, slow
down on the booze on this.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
One, my claw.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
And uh, I said, no, you know, don't worry, don't worry.
You know, I'm good. I've I'm definitely good, and I was.
Speaker 1 (13:02):
Certain I can handle it.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Yeah. Well, I I just I just and I've said
before when I've ever I've worked on something like really
good and anyway, so but I remember that. And then
the next part of the process on that movie, uh
was that it was cast and and it's not only
(13:24):
you know Ed Harris and double O seven Connery, Uh
you know it is, UH got a bunch of really
good marines, a bunch of Yeah Morris.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
I recognized from a number of movies.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Uh yeah, then the c I a gout like there's
a lot of.
Speaker 1 (13:48):
Really yeah really big cast lock cast.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Even in even in smaller secondary wood you.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
Have Tony Todd's John McGinley.
Speaker 2 (13:59):
John Gamley's great and that yeah, keep going. David Morse,
David Morse, of course, well.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
He doesn't play one of the things, but William Forsyth.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
And William for yah, yeah, fores and foresize is great
and then so it's very good. So I think that
that was the idea that he was kind of kind
of surround Michael Bay with all these good actors. And Hi,
I'm Dylan.
Speaker 1 (14:26):
And I'm Bat and I'm Ruby.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
And we host a podcast called bad Tv. What do
we talk about?
Speaker 2 (14:32):
On bad TV?
Speaker 3 (14:32):
We talked about shows, all your favorite reality TV shows.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
We recap Below Deck, the ind of Pump Rules, Love
is Blind.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
What else do we cover?
Speaker 4 (14:40):
Pat, We just finished The Golden Bachelor. That was fun.
But occasionally we go back and recap shows that could
never be made today, like Flavor of Love season two.
Not sure if anybody remembers, but in the first episode,
something on the floor.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
And that's a fact.
Speaker 3 (14:54):
A girl, a woman named something on the floor.
Speaker 4 (14:58):
So if you're looking for a podcast that marks all
the insanity that is your favorite reality TV shows, then
subscribe to bad TV on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere
you listen to podcasts.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Bye. The next thing that I knew, we were all
up in San Francisco and can you check to see
who Gail Hurd is married to right now? Jonathan Hemsley,
Thank you? Do you know? Good for you, Jim? What
(15:30):
do you know his credits Jim at.
Speaker 1 (15:37):
The moment, No, I know that he did substantial work
on that enough work on the script that Michael Bay
went to bad for him to try to get a credit,
but he didn't get a credit in the w GA
arbitration process, and Michael Michael Bay was really public about
his disagreement with that, saying that Hemley contributed to substantially
(16:00):
to that script and people like Quentin Tarantino, Aaron Sorken,
a number of other writers had a hand in putting
that together.
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Yeah, it looks like he has an uncredited writing works
on like on the Wikipedia page. It's not in his filmography,
but it's uncreditable.
Speaker 2 (16:16):
But what is it?
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Rock?
Speaker 2 (16:17):
You know, he directed one of the big franchise the
Punisher and that looked like that had some studio involvement
with it and was a little bit uneven and and
I think that was a kind of his big break.
And I'm not sure that that really did extremely well.
(16:41):
But I got to know him quite well when we
were doing The Rock because the script was needed, you know,
flushing out and needed filling up sort of. And uh,
the way that I thought that ed Harris and and
(17:02):
uh Nick Cage, and I thought we had two or
three writers up there at that time, and I don't
remember that. What's What's John Johnny.
Speaker 1 (17:15):
He wrote movies like I heard with a Vengeance and Armageddon,
so he you know, the background was writing those big, stale,
high concept movies.
Speaker 2 (17:26):
Well, I remember like working with him individually, and I
remember working with him on the character that I played.
And you know, I I'm not surprised. Usually when people
talk to me about The Rock, they'll say to me,
I cannot I can't give that order. I can't give it.
(17:49):
You gotta give the blood, and uh, I can't give
that order. And then you know, as it turned out,
I probably should have given the order. But I worked with.
Speaker 3 (18:04):
There's a great line in that too, where you go, Uh,
we spilled the same blood in the Yeah, that was.
Speaker 1 (18:09):
A really nice feat.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yeah. Yeah, But that's the kind of thing that I
that Jonathan I I remembered.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
I spent hours and hours with him. Uh, and he
was writing. I wasn't, you know, but I was certainly
contributing to the character. And you know, he he he
could have written that line. That's a that that is
a great line. And uh, it's one of the few times.
(18:40):
It's like the only time that I've ever worked not
with a director like I tried to do on Navy
Seals or sometimes I'll say to Jim Cameron, Hey, what
what if we changed this line? And you know, uh,
they actually brought in a writer to kind of flesh
(19:02):
out my character, and that was Jonathan And I really
liked him. I really really liked him a lot. He
was a really really nice guy, and I thought he
really helped. And I didn't know the whole thing with
Michael Bay and him warning him to have a credit
(19:25):
on it, but to me.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
In the Wikipedia article, it says Michael Bay wrote an
open letter of protest in which he criticized the arbitration
procedure as a sham and a travesty, he said, Hensley
had worked closely with him and should have received screen credit.
There were five other writers in addition to the ones
we've already mentioned, who had a hand in writing this things.
(19:46):
So it was really screenplay by committee.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Okay, okay, okay.
Speaker 1 (19:51):
And it's one of those situations. A lot of times,
screenplay by committee means that, you know, one writer did
it and a pair riet writers took it up some times,
so you get these rare circumstances where you actually have
writers a group of writers working on the project at
the same time. And that's kind of what sounds like
was happening here, and that can be.
Speaker 2 (20:11):
Didn't you say, uh, Jim, that's a little bit like
the writer's room for episode.
Speaker 1 (20:15):
Of Television's more like it's more like how a series
like Breaking Bad evolves from a writer's room. Yeah, you know,
writing by conference. Yes, And most movie you know had
that bose earmarks. Yeah, because I mean Sean Connery brought
brought in his own team of writers to beef up
his his stuff.
Speaker 3 (20:35):
Well, there's a great Sean Connery line in that movie too.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Which is.
Speaker 3 (20:40):
Losers always whine about their best winners go home and
fuck the prom queen. And then it turns to Nick
Age and he goes, Carla was the prom queen.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
I heard that line. I thought, oh, that's a meme.
I've seen mac wind quota. You know, it's a classic.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah he was, they told me, Uh, Jerry, I think
that was such Somewhere along the line, I got the
I got the feeling that you know, you know, yeah,
you might need to tiptoe around him a little bit,
that he could be which described a little bit like
a bear and so uh but I got along with
(21:20):
him really well, and I never saw anything other than
a true professional him and his prime him after he'd
done everything that he had already done, and just just
being like just like cool as cool as hell. And
I think, and maybe I'm mixing this up with a
(21:41):
story that I heard, but I think that he used
to go out. I think there was a time that
he was a big golfer and yeah, he I think
there was a time that we were shooting, and you know,
he had a certain time that he came in he
had makeup on, and he could get his makeup and
(22:03):
wardrobe and stuff like that, and he knew he was
coming into like a somewhat tight shot or something like that,
and he came in and, you know, put the shirt
on to put the makeup on, and he went and
he did the shot, but he still had on his
golf pants and golf shoots, and you know, I think
he kind of kind of took pride in the fact
(22:24):
that he was, like, you know, that's still dressed for
the course. And maybe he just did that one shot
and changed his shirt and went back out. I forgot,
but I I had. For some reason. We were in
the makeup chairs a lot together, and I always liked him,
and I remember asking him because what we were doing
(22:45):
wasn't real physical, but it was kind of physical. But
I asked him what was the most physical movie that
he'd ever worked on? And he thought about it, not
for very long, and he said, The Hill. Are you
familiar with that movie, Jim, Yeah, I am, yeah, And so.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
I can understand. I mean, they shot it in the desert.
It takes place in North Africa in a like a
prison camp during the war during World War Two, and
I can understand how that might have been a really
grueling shoot.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
And yeah, basically, it's all these military guys all got
backpacks on stuff and every time they do something wrong,
they'd have to run up and down this hill ten
times or fifteen times. And uh yeah, yes, I guess
the actors were. It's a pretty good movie. You know,
it's a you know, it's a it's one of those
(23:38):
older movies that I think holds.
Speaker 3 (23:40):
Up Sydney Litte, Uh Sidney, Yeah, we gotta.
Speaker 2 (23:45):
We got to spend like two or three podcasts just
talking about Sidney Lamette, because Sidney Lamette is just I
can't think of another director that has got.
Speaker 1 (23:56):
Last movie was fabulous for the Before the Devil Knows You're.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Dead, Oh, Philip Seymour Hoffman, and what.
Speaker 1 (24:07):
A nearing, brutal movie that is. And he was that
was the last movie he made. Wow, you know, and
put all the other stuff he did, Oh my god.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, no, he was, well we'll get yeah, we went
back to him go through some of the rock stuff.
That one of the one of my favorite stories about
working on the Rock and and and and and and
(24:39):
working with Michael Bay is there's one scene in the movie.
And it's not the scene where I'm screaming it at
Aris and he's screaming back at me, but there's a
scene where, uh, you're kind of we're kind of out
on the air, like an air force base or whatever,
and uh uh, you know, this car pulls up, or
(25:02):
van pulls up, sort of a military van pulls up,
and we all pile all. I think we're Navy. Yeah,
well we play Navy seals in that, and we're all
the Navy seals pile out of this van and I
get out and I give this sort of you know speech,
this is what we're gonna do, and this is how
we're going to do it, and this is who I am,
and you listen to me and blah blah blah, and
(25:26):
and it was a pretty big production shot. You know,
you can go shoot something in the corner of our
room and you can spend you know, you know, do
twenty takes of that. But when you have a big
shot like the one like that one, you've got so
many people involved, so many elements involved. You've got smoke,
(25:49):
you've got you know, helico, ten actors. I think there
might have been a helicopter in this shot. There was
just like just all sorts of like, uh, it was
a big shot, a lot of hardware, a lot of
hardware and doing a pep talk to a reaction to
re assemble that shot or to redo that shot, you know. Okay,
(26:11):
so we do the shot. If we wanted to do
a take two of it, it's going to take him
thirty minutes at least maybe forty minutes to just reset everybody,
reset everything from wardrobe to helicopters to like all this
sort of stuff.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
I have a lot of moving parts in that shot.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
And I didn't. Yeah, I wasn't really thinking about like
that as any sort of big deal I had. You know,
I had all the dialogue in it, and I'm you know,
I come out of the van and there's Nick Cage
and Sean Connery and and you know, three or four
(26:56):
other people there, and you know, I go into this
speed and so we get ready to shoot it. And
of course it's this dialogue that I've gone over and
over and over and over and over and over and
over in my head because I don't want to be
that guy, you know. So so anyway, we get ready
(27:18):
to shoot it, and I'm all pumped up and I'm
in there, the adrenalines flowing, and I'm ready to go,
and like, you know, like okay, here we go, you know,
like van for action, you know, and you're like, oh,
here we're gonna I'm in the back of the van,
but we've all got marks of course that we're hit
when we get out of the van, Like, get out
of the van, I can hit our marks. And I'm
(27:39):
just like, ah hmm, what was I supposed to say? Here?
Like it was like the worst the worst time in
my life that it happened in a shot in front
(28:01):
of fucking Sean Connery and Nicholas Cage and all my
Navy seals guys who are with me. I'm just like like,
it's just like a blank slate and I'm just looking
like uh uh uh, like what the fuck, you know?
And that goes on for you know, five or ten
(28:25):
maybe seven seconds, eight seconds, you know, I start looking
up and all of a sudden, I hear Michael Bay say,
a right, man, the purpose for us being here is.
And I'm like, all right, man, the purpose of us
being here is? And then I was completely blank again.
(28:47):
You know, We're gonna get on a plane and we're
gonna fly over to the rock and this is you know,
oh and we'k and then there's there's Michael Bay. He
either knew the dial or was sitting next to somebody
who had this script and that entire scene which we
shot in one take, of course, because he didn't want
(29:09):
to turn around and redo it, that entire scene. He
was spoon feeding me every single line of that of
that of that scene, and uh it was like embarrassing,
and uh, you know that kind of stuff I guess happens.
(29:30):
But that was the That was the worst, as far
as it being a big production shot, as far as
us having to do it again, as far as it
being an a movie with people like Sean Connery and
Nicholas Cage, and just like everything that I just and
I was like, I didn't know any of it, Like
(29:51):
I didn't know a word of it, you know. And
of course I'd known it. I'd done it over and
over and over and over and over in my head.
Speaker 1 (29:59):
But knowing that story, I was watching for that scene.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, he watched it last night, right.
Speaker 1 (30:06):
Yeah, so I'm I'm really, you know, watching for it.
And I have to say, man, he cut it together, beautiful.
You can't tell you were you as they say, went
up in your.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
On your line.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
No, I know, you can't tell.
Speaker 2 (30:21):
Man, I know he cut he got it.
Speaker 1 (30:23):
He made it work well, we fixed he fixed it
in post.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
Thank you, yeah, thank you Michael babe, thank you uh
for for making me look good because I I have
seen it since too. And of course when I saw
the movie originally, one of the things that I was
worried about was that little sequence. And you know, it
works fine, it works great, and you know, I I, uh,
(30:54):
you know, I've seen Michael since that. You know, he
used to go to edge parties. People are always talking about,
like parties, big parties and stuff like that. Edelamanto, my agent,
used to have the biggest parties in the most you know,
walking and Sydney Portier would be there and there's fucking O. J.
(31:17):
Simpson there and Tombro caught. Yeah, like just like that's
who you see when you walk in the door, you know,
and you know. But anyway, so anyway, every once in
a while, I'd run into Michael Bay because Michael Bay
used to go to Ed's parties, and I've talked to
(31:39):
him a little bit and I've always kind of like,
I give him the business a little bit because it's
my opinion and it's true. It's true. Nicholas Cage carries
that movie. He's wonderful throughout the movie, and without nicking
that movie, I'm not sure, but he's absolutely everybody's really
(32:01):
wonderful in it. But I always say to Michael Bay,
or I used to say to Michael Bay when I
saw him, I said, you know, Michael, I think that
I am in the best Michael Bay movie ever made.
And to this day, I still believe that. And I
said that Michael, I think I was the best scene
(32:24):
in that movie, meaning the scene that I have with
Ed Harris. I think it's a really really wonderful scene
that people remember. Now. I didn't carry the movie like
Nicholas Cage did, and I didn't shoot it, and I
didn't write it, and I didn't do a lot of stuff,
but yeah, I had a good time doing it, and
(32:45):
it's one of the movies I guess that I was
in that right away people knew that it was a hit.
And I still look back at Michael Bay's career and
I I still think it's the best movie that he's done.
What other big I mean, I know he did all
the see all the Transformers. I know he's a billionaire,
(33:08):
and I know because the Transformers that he's you know,
he's a huge, you know, billionaire like that. That's kind
of like Avatar, that whole franchise that that he worked on. Uh,
but I don't from a standpoint of like gritty filmmaking,
(33:29):
you know, strong storytelling that it's not you know about
cars that turn into well.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
Most recently he speaking of cars. Most recently, he did
that Jake Jillanol movie Ambulance that was basically, you know,
one big car chase in an ambulance.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Well after The Rock, he did Armageddon.
Speaker 2 (33:50):
Yeah, I know, well I mean not like I know,
but yes he did. And you know, I like I said,
I and I'm biased of course because I'm I'm I
mean the movie. I just still think The Rock is
his best movie.
Speaker 1 (34:11):
And I think The Rock is best than On Again,
I wouldn't hesitate to argue that.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Well, and you know everybody's got a different opedig. Yeah
for sure, So you know what you like, and Caitlin.
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Likes, I actually think, yeah, it's the Rock. Looking at
his filmark, the first Transformers is fucking great. It's really
really good. But The Rock is sweet. But it's funny
because growing up, The Rock was like the one movie
that my mom would not let me watch that you.
Speaker 2 (34:38):
Gina wouldn't let you watch The Rock.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
I mean, eventually, of course I got old enough. But
as I was starting to get older and I could
watch your movies, she thought The Rock was going to
be traumatizing.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
Oh, because, well, so one thing I get, I get
killed in it. And I can remember a time that
I was doing a movie. You brought it up the
other day, shout it down to Texas. It was when
you were born. It was thirty three. How old are you?
Speaker 3 (35:05):
Thirty three?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
Thirty three? Thirty three? Are you sure?
Speaker 3 (35:08):
I think?
Speaker 2 (35:10):
Yeah? Thirty three years ago I was doing a movie
with and I was down in Texas and it was
originally the movie was called eight on eight Off, and
it was about these oil workers. And I've forgot why
(35:32):
I'm even bringing that.
Speaker 3 (35:34):
I just talked about Gina not letting me watch The
Rock because it was too violent.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Oh. That was a movie that I did, and I
played the bad guy in it. And you mentioned it
the other day, I said, Jason, not Jason previously anyway,
So I do a movie, I play a bad guy.
It was directed by a guy named leu Antonio. Leu
(35:58):
Antonio was an actor, good actor. Uh, And I was
told that Jennifer was, uh, I mean your mother, Gina
was was going into labor and they let me leave.
(36:19):
It was the Houston area or based in Houston. But
then we went down to Galveston and we shot on
on these oro rigs and I I flew back to
LA I saw you get born, and then I flew back.
So that was I was thirty three years ago. And
(36:40):
Jason Bateman, Jason Bateman. That's the when we were talking
about the Jason Bates and it was like a TV
movie kind of yeah, it wasn't, but it didn't have
commercial breaks. I don't know, you know, after that might
been the beginning of like Netflix and streaming and stuff
like that or or yeah yeah, yeah yeah. And I
(37:03):
play a really pretty nasty guy in that, and we
we I went to a screening of it, and I
went to a screening of it, probably with your mother
and Devin and Taylor, your older brothers, twin brothers who
are now forty two forty one to forty two, but
they were about twelve ten ten eleven twelve maybe ten
(37:27):
ten ten years probably about ten years old, and went
screening it and I played this nasty and you know
beating people up and like, and they they couldn't handle it.
They had to. They fled the the the the auditorium,
they fled the theater, and they wouldn't come they wouldn't
(37:47):
come back in, they wouldn't watch a movie. And I
think your mom took them to see that movie with me,
and it was the four of us, but I couldn't,
you know, I'm their dad. I'm like, come on down
the list. I'm just acting. It's just like, no, never
wanted anything to do with it. So she might have
been reacting to that, because what happens is if you
(38:10):
look at the death scene in the Rock, you know,
I think it's I think it's I think it's Tony
Todd who's accidentally like hits a brick and the brick
goes off, and everybody thinks that, Okay, well now it's
the time to start shooting. The gunfight happens, and I
(38:33):
ended up getting hit and killed. And I remember asking
Michael Bay because I have like an MP five, I've
got like an automatic weapon, and I'm shooting and this
is going every things are going on. We start getting
chewed up pretty good, and next thing you know, I
get hit and I go down, and I can remember
(38:54):
like asking Michael Bay if I could like ask because
now that the MP five has been kind of blown
out of my hands, I've dropped that. And as I
was going down, I asked him, can I like then
pull my side arm at the same time I'm acting
here and now going down on the couch thirty years ago?
(39:17):
And so I asked Michael, you know, like as one
last fleeting sort of like, yeah, what's the line about.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
The mud and blood blood in the same mud?
Speaker 2 (39:29):
Yeah, well, I was spelling blood in that in that moment,
And I asked him if I could then take my
side arm and I bring that out, bring that up
for like one or two more shots, like I still
was still had some something left in yeah, and uh yeah,
and he said sure and he shot it that way
and uh so that was that was that and the
(39:53):
uh uh.
Speaker 3 (39:55):
Do you have any stories about Nicholas Cage. I mean,
I've asked before. He said he didn't really work with
him that much, but I'm just curious because he's the man,
and I love Nicholas Cages.
Speaker 2 (40:06):
Well, you know, Nicholas is h I've worked on two
sets with him, and you know, I didn't really have
anything to do with him on The Rock and I
I didn't have that much to do with him on
(40:27):
the movie that his brother director that we were talking about, Yeah, deadfool,
I didn't really have I didn't want to get to
work with him. So usually when you're working with an actor,
you're like, uh, yeah, how you want to play well,
you know, I'm going to drop this line. Hey, I'll
(40:49):
cut in first, you know, let me let me, you know.
And it's part of the fun of acting is working
with other actors and and bouncing ideas off of them
back and forth. I was talking a little bit about
working with val on that last on that last scene
in uh Tombstone. And because we our characters don't interact,
(41:16):
h I don't have the same relationship that I do
with somebody like Powers Booth where we're in the scenes together,
or Stephen Lang or John Corbett, you know, or Jason Priestley,
you know, who played the sissy boy we called him
in the in the movie, you know, So we have
(41:37):
a tendency to hang out, and so I don't. I
don't you know, Nicholas, who is a superb performer and
has done a lot of stuff I think I uh,
you know, I spoke about meeting Coppola and how how
interesting it was meeting Coppola one time and spending a
(41:59):
half an hour talking to Coppola, and uh, I was
for Peggy Sue got married, and how I didn't get
the role and he ended up casting his nephew his
nephew in the movie. But uh, and I worked. I've
worked with Talia Shire before too, and so I've you know,
I've had had the opportunity.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
To work work, work, work.
Speaker 2 (42:23):
With some good people. But we were one of the
things that I kind of wanted to do just because, Uh,
can you bring up Jerry Bruckheimer. One of the things
that was sad that happened when we were doing The
Rock was Don Simpson came to visit on the set
(42:48):
and I didn't I wasn't really aware of the problems
that he had. Oh, Jimmy Kahn too. We can mention
a little bit about the problems that Jimmy Cohn had
for a certain time and his career too, But I
wasn't that aware of all the problems that he had
(43:08):
with substance abuse. And I was on the on the
set of The Rock and Jerry Uh.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
He.
Speaker 2 (43:21):
I had met him once before your mother. Your mother
and I had thrown a Halloween party and he'd come
to it. And I think he's just gotten out of
a rehab and uh, Don Simpson and it's good looking,
not real tall, but good looking, leather jacket kind of
vibe and uh, you know, a big star, a big
(43:43):
producing star of course at that time. And uh, and
I on the set of The Rock I, you know,
Jerry said, hey, Don Simpson, have you met before I came?
He came to a party that I had, and I
then he walked off and I sat and I talked
(44:05):
to him for like, you know, half an hour or so,
and he seemed, you know, he seemed okay. He didn't
seem to be real enthusiastic or it didn't seem like
he was filled with a lot of like life and energy.
It seemed like a little tired.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
But he was pretty reclusive at that point.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
Well, you know, I think he died the next day.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
You know, Michelle Feiffer made Dangerous Minds a year or
two before that, and she required that Don not be
on the set when she was around. Why so, because
he just so he was in great major sort of
(44:55):
disengaged from most of what was going on at Simpson Bruckheimer.
I think they may have wound up splitting up anyway.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
But so, like on his Wikipedia page, it says that
Bruckheimer was frustrated with Simpson's escalating drug use and declining work,
so Bruckheimer terminated their partnership in December ninety five. That
two agreed to finish The Rock, which was already in production,
and Simpson died before the production was completed. So I
(45:23):
think their partnership had So you talk about him being down,
he was probably realizing like their partnership had just ended,
but they're finishing the Rock, and so that.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Don was so.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
Don was fifty two and he died when Michael Eisner
dropped the call informing him. Eisner said, I've been waiting
for this call for twenty.
Speaker 2 (45:42):
Years, but didn't you tell me, Jim, And it's not
really that didn't you. Isn't there a coroner's report about
the drugs that were.
Speaker 1 (45:57):
His body was the most toxic of any autopsy in
the history of California, the number of substances they found
in him. It was a really, really tragic decline because
I was around quite a bit maybe fifteen years before
he died, when he was still an executive at Paramount,
(46:19):
and he was very vibrant, very inner. Jetachey had a
golden gut for material. He could take something like a
script like Flash Dance that I thought was kind of
gritty and unpleasant, and you know, look what he got
out of it.
Speaker 2 (46:34):
You thought Flash Dance was gritty the script the script okay,
now the script is by Joe Asterhouse.
Speaker 1 (46:42):
It was you know, working girls in the Midwest who
do these flash dances at bars and then go off
to their jobs and steel plants. Well, and you know,
Don took that premise and you know made a video
that you know, made an EMTV.
Speaker 2 (46:58):
Oh you know, I think that mixed up with uh
lose Who's five Degrees of Separation?
Speaker 3 (47:05):
Which Kevin Bacon?
Speaker 2 (47:07):
Yeah, what's the flash?
Speaker 1 (47:08):
Flash dance was the what the seeling? You know?
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Yeah, but what was what was Kevin Bacon? What was
that dance? That was? That was? That was flash Dance?
Speaker 1 (47:18):
Okay, right, there was another Paramount movie that sort of
work on. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (47:25):
So so at the time of his death, there were
twenty one different drugs in Don Simpson's system, including antidepressant stimulants,
sedatives and tranquilizers. He had been taining it had been
obtaining large quantities of prescription drugs from fifteen different doctors,
and police found twenty two hundred prescription pills lined up
(47:46):
in alphabetical order in his bedroom closet.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Don had a compound up near the Beverly Hill or
the bel Air Hotel, and he had a doctor who
is going to try to help him, you know, get
off drugs, move in with him and lived in the poolhouse.
That doctor died of a drug overdose six months, six
months before Dawn did. So clearly that plan didn't work.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Well, go back to Bruckheimer and look at his movies.
Speaker 1 (48:16):
Uh do you if you if you look at a
picture of Eddie Murphy in Beverly Hills, cop He'll be
wearing a T shirt that says Mumford. Mumford is a
high school in Detroit where Jerry Bruckhimber went to school.
That's his high school. And Jerry, did you know you
and Jerry went to the same college.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
Yeah, you know, I just saw that in the last
forty eight hours that yeah, well he actually graduated yeah Semetery, Yeah, yeah,
no idea. Yeah, when I think of Jerry bruckhimber, I
just don't think of the University of Arizona. But yeah, Yeah,
he went.
Speaker 1 (48:56):
Back to Detroit and he got into advertising, and he
worked with a guy in advertising named Dick Richards who
became a director, and he was a client of ours
at ICM. He had directed a couple of movies like
Culpepper Cattle Company, Yeah, a Gene Hackman movie about the
French form legion called March or Die Uh.
Speaker 2 (49:15):
And he'd done a.
Speaker 1 (49:16):
Couple of movies and Jerry. He brought Jerry along to
kind of produce those movies for him because he liked
the way Jerry could produce commercials, and because he was
a client of Birds at ICM, he got access to
some things that Paul Schrader was doing, and Jerry wound
up producing two Paul Schrader movies, Cat People and more
(49:37):
importantly American Jiggolo was.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
I know.
Speaker 1 (49:43):
Schrader credits Jerry's contributions to making that movie as impactful
as it was, and that and and that movie was
a paramount movie. And Don and Jerry had known each
other as friends before, but in that capacity working on
that movie, where Don was the studio executive and Jerry
was the producer and that's sort of was the foundation
(50:05):
of what would become their working relationship as producing partners.
And as producing partners, they you know, had an incredible
run at Paramount and continued it enlarge measure into into
Disney and then Jerry just you know, extended it into
the stratosphere after after Don's death.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
So well, I I used to know Richard Gere a
little bit because when I signed it with Edela Motto,
Edla Motto, uh kind of he was. He used to
pop from ICM to William Morris to ICUM. You never
knew like what year it was, which agency of those
(50:45):
between those two he was going to be at. But
I originally met him. I originally signed with William Morris,
but he was at ICM, and I remember him taking
kind of an interest in me. And even though I
signed with William Morris, he had been icent but he
handles the person that he handled that that that was
a star, and this is before I signed with him,
(51:09):
was Richard gear And Richard Gear God, I mean, you
talk about a movie star.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
But it came to I c M the same time
I did, but he had already been with ICM in
New York. He relocated to UH to Los Angeles at
the same time. I went into the mail room, but
he only had one client when he when he arrived,
there was rich Richard Gear. And Richard was really hot
(51:37):
coming off of Looking for Mister Goodbar. Oh yeah, yeah,
he sizzled lot in that movie, and suddenly he was
very much in demand.
Speaker 2 (51:48):
And you know used to always be that director.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
Okay, and he made that weird Tarry Malick movie Days
of Heaven.
Speaker 2 (51:56):
Yeah, well that was that was one of Richard Gear's
movies that that did not do particularly well. Let's get
back to Berkheimer because I want you to get to
Berkheimer's movies. Can you tell me like ten of his
movies that they did?
Speaker 3 (52:09):
Yes, so they're they're all separated by like the different
studios that he's worked force. He's got the ones on Paramount,
but I'll just go through some of the Walt Disney ones,
starting with The Rock. It was the Rock conn Air.
Speaker 2 (52:21):
Conn Air was a very interesting movie that I really
really people talk just stay stay right with me, but
first Love Connor.
Speaker 3 (52:32):
You can talk about that movie as long as he wants.
Speaker 2 (52:34):
Well. I I went up for that movie, UH to
play uh a character and again that was Nicholas Cage, right,
It was Nicholas Cage and it had a great Malcolvich
who did what was the name of John Malcolvitch's character.
(52:55):
They called him like the squeege or the thing or
So I went up and I met with that direct
When people ask me the virus, the virus, Cyrus virus, right,
I went for Cyrus Virus and I met.
Speaker 3 (53:10):
Who directed it was Simon West.
Speaker 2 (53:13):
Okay, so I went up. I met Simon West like
two or three times on that to play Cyrus the Virus,
and I just wanted to play that role so badly.
I absolutely loved, loved, loved that role, and it ended
up going to John Malkovich. And uh, you know, sometimes
(53:37):
when you get beat or you're up for a part
and somebody else gets the part, You're like, fuck that ship.
You know, I'm a motherfucker. But John Malcovis, you know,
they cast John Malcovich instead of you. He's just like, Okay,
all right, understand that, you know, But that was up.
(53:59):
I've gone back though, uh and looked at that movie.
I looked at that movie about a year ago or so,
and it seems to me that they might have spent
like a lot of money on cast because some of
the production value in that movie, some of the backgrounds
and the houses in the cars and stuff looked it
(54:21):
didn't look didn't look quite as as you've you seen
the movie.
Speaker 1 (54:28):
Jim, look like a Michael Bay movie with that.
Speaker 2 (54:30):
Have you seen that movie?
Speaker 1 (54:33):
Not in years? But I certainly saw it.
Speaker 2 (54:35):
I didn't have the production value on the screen that
I expected it to have years later when I saw anyway.
Speaker 3 (54:42):
So it had a seventy five million dollar budget. But
again you got Nicholas Cage, John Cusack, John Malkovich, Steve Buscemi,
Ving rang.
Speaker 2 (54:49):
Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, what else does? What
else did.
Speaker 3 (54:53):
Depend after Connye? Was Armageddon, Armageddon, Enemy of the State, Coyote,
Ugly Gone in sixty seconds?
Speaker 2 (55:00):
Remember the Gone in sixty seconds? That was Nicholas Caged
Boy worked a lot with Nicholas Cage, And that was
Angelina and Joe Lee. I believe that was after I
had worked with her, and that was the last movie
that she did before she got straight. And when I
worked with her, she was twenty years old and just
(55:23):
a wild child. Man. She was just absolutely wild and
and she was, you know, using and she had worked
up with Billy Bob yet no no, no, no, no,
no no she she that was gone in sixty seconds.
Was the last movie that she did before she straightened
(55:48):
herself out and then went off and did Laura is
it Laura Croft or tomb Raider? Yeah, yeah, tomb Raider.
And she went off to do Tom tomb Raider and
ever since then there's been like a completely different person
and you know, wonderfully wonderful actress and absolutely like that
(56:08):
movie that I worked with her on. She was just
stunningly beautiful and talented. You know. That's also like when
you get like people like Michelle Pfeiffer and you know,
Goldie Hawn, and it's there's something about beauty and talent
that is so much more seductive than just beauty, you know.
(56:31):
And boy, Angelina was just absolutely you knew she was.
You could just tell she was really really talented and
uh and uh, but she was absolutely like and I was,
I was kind of in a in a in a
weird place in my life. And I was not drinking
(56:52):
on that movie. It wasn't fucked up when I was
making the movie, but I was. I was I was
drinking a lot around that movie. And uh uh, okay,
any other Bruckheimer movies.
Speaker 3 (57:03):
Yeah, I mean so after gones, remember the Titans, Pearl Harbor,
Bad Company, and then Pirates of the Caribbean.
Speaker 2 (57:11):
Pirates Caribbean, Oh my god, wow wow, absolutely, and and
the others. I mean television what about too.
Speaker 3 (57:22):
I also just wanted to mention, like, after Pirates of
the Caribbean was National Treasure in Nick Cage. Again, it's
a fantastic movie. Yeah, and then yeah, it's a lot
of Pirates of the Caribbeans and National Treasure movies. But
if you want me to move down to TV, did.
Speaker 1 (57:36):
He do Loan Ranger?
Speaker 2 (57:38):
Did he do Loan Ranger? Was the Johnny Depp Loan Ranger?
Speaker 1 (57:43):
Yeah, that's what I'm wondering.
Speaker 2 (57:46):
I think that was a yeah, okay, well that was
one disaster. I guess we all have one like one
in our back pocket that really just didn't seem to
work very well, you know. I think that was It
spent quite a bit on that one, didn't they that one? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (58:04):
That one.
Speaker 3 (58:05):
He only did two more movies for Walt Disney after
The Lowder, and that was one. One was a Pirates
of the Caribbean movie.
Speaker 1 (58:10):
And that's that's largely attributed to Lone Ranger too. I
think that kind of cooled the relationship.
Speaker 2 (58:16):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Well he as I said to
you before you know that. He he asked me if
I wanted to do some television. He was thinking about
getting into television.
Speaker 3 (58:29):
So I'm just looking at his TV credits here, and
the first big one in two thousand was CSI c
fifteen year run. That one.
Speaker 2 (58:39):
Who's the star? That one was? That guy came did
that show and then left the business. He was in
the Freakin movie William Peterson, Yeah, William Peterson and uh
uh he was. He was in the Friedkind movie. He
did that series, and I think that was kind of
his his I think he brought that to Jerry. I
(59:00):
think he brought that that kind of idea of c
s I and that that whole thing I think is
uh he he brought that to Jerry and then they
made that where there does Jerry have other big television?
Oh yeah?
Speaker 3 (59:15):
So is The next credit after that is The Amazing Race,
which is still on today from two thousand and one
to present. It's like a reality show, but it's still money.
Speaker 2 (59:22):
Do you think he's got, Jim, he's got to be
a billionaire. Yeah, I mean he's got top gun coming
out here, the new top gun coming out here. Right.
Speaker 3 (59:35):
So I just did a quick Google search, and it's
never that accurate how much money they have. I just
googled Jerry Bruckheimer's net worth and it's a billion dollars.
Speaker 2 (59:43):
A billion. Yeah, yeah, well he deserves it. He earned it.
So and he's always like Jerry, it's always just uh,
like I said before, it was just a real uh
pleasant guy. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
In my experience around him, and I wasn't around him
a lot, but he was in Bird's office quite a
bit when I was there.
Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
I was mentioning Jimmy Conn before, and Jimmy Conn was
I did. I just loved the I loved the Pecola
movie also, and I start, you know, I watched Thief.
Then I last night after I talked to you, Jim,
and then I watched Comes of Horsemen. And of course
that's Jane Fonda and William Farnsworth. Is that Yeah, yes,
(01:00:29):
William Farnsworth. And that's that's a really really interesting movie.
Now I didn't get to finish.
Speaker 1 (01:00:35):
It, but it's set in Montana in the nineteen forties.
Speaker 2 (01:00:39):
Yes. You know, anytime I see a Western that's got
a car in it, I'm like, ah, that really a Western.
But I wasn't old old fashioned, you know car. But
I don't think it was set in the forties, because
the cars looked like it was. I'll bet you it
was not set in the forties. Could have been sitting well,
it was after World I think it was after World
(01:01:00):
War two.
Speaker 1 (01:01:01):
World War two.
Speaker 2 (01:01:02):
You're right, You're absolutely right. I guess she just had
an old, old, old car. And Jason Jason Robarts, Yeah,
he worked with Pecool a couple of times. Because Jason
Robarts was just absolutely so fantastic and all the presidents
Mann Bradley, Now you know who he married, don't you.
(01:01:22):
One of his wives, Lauren, your favorite. Man. I don't know.
I wonder what that was all about, man.
Speaker 1 (01:01:31):
Because I think the the story was that because he
kind of reminded her of Bogey.
Speaker 2 (01:01:38):
Oh, he reminded her, well, I used to take a lot,
so they had that in common exactly. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Anyway,
I going back to James Connor, think there was a
time in James CON's career that he was kind of
unreliable as far as studios when nobody was casting him anymore,
(01:02:03):
because I think there was a you know, I think
it was coke. I think that they got involved with coke.
Speaker 1 (01:02:08):
He was uninsurable. He had really jumped through hoops to
get cat to get insurance right, and he would have
to you know, submit to drug testing, et cetera.
Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
What was the name of the movie. And I want
to think, I want to say Gailherd was involved, but
I could be wrong. But he his comeback movie, which
was kind of a ridiculous movie with some really weird
makeup that he had on, like they were like aliens.
Do you remember that gem it was? I think it
was a Fox movie And uh oh gosh, yeah, Well,
(01:02:46):
I mean he made Misery with no no, no, no.
That was As the answer to your question, I'm saying Alienation. Alienation,
that's the movie that he came back and like I
guess proved to the industry that he could you know,
straighten up and you know, flight fly straight and uh
(01:03:06):
and that was a weird ass.
Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Was it was? Now that you mentioned it, That's that's
why I didn't remember.
Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
It was produced by g It was produced by Gail
and Oh.
Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
Gail did produce it. Oh wow, wow. We gotta get Gail.
I gotta get I gotta call Gail and asked her
to come back, come talk to us, or or us
go to her and talk to her, because she said,
in such an interesting career and boys, she could tell you.
You know, I watched her. I watched her save a
(01:03:40):
number of situations. When we were doing The Terminator. One
of the things was that the uh Teamsters, while while
we were in the middle of shooting the Terminator, right
in the middle of a teamsters went on strike. So
that's like, that's not good, you know, if you're in
the middle of a of a movie, especially a little, tight,
(01:04:02):
little movie that you know, Jim was like like squeezing
every little bit of like energy out of like talent them.
But she I watched the teamsters basically say we're done
as of like noon that night, or it was like
(01:04:23):
I think it was like midnight. It was like at
midnight they were going to walk off the show. And
I watched Gail talk to them and negotiate with them,
and I basically I think what she was saying was,
you know, we're not Fox, We're not Warner Brothers. You know,
we're not Paramount Studios, a little tiny movie here. You know,
(01:04:45):
We're not We're not them, you know, so you know,
please give us a break. You know, we can, you know.
And I'm not sure if she had to promise anything,
but I know that when we showed up at work
that day that night, that we all knew the Teamsters
because it was you know, they had announced it and
they and they did. The Teamsters did go on strike
(01:05:08):
in nineteen that would have been nineteen eighty three. And
I watched her talking to the Teamsters, which they were
probably you know, at least a dozen, probably sixteen or
twenty of them.
Speaker 1 (01:05:24):
On That's early in their career too.
Speaker 2 (01:05:27):
What's that that's early in her career too. Well, it
was when she was doing the Terminator yea, and so
it is very early in her career. And there was
another thing. We had a guy on that on that
show named to Roger George. Roger was the guy who
blew up things. He was the guy for you know
(01:05:50):
that blew up stuff. And the interesting thing I think
I've mentioned this before, The interesting thing about Roger George
is he was he was the guy who was in
charge blowing up up stuff, and when you met him,
the first thing that you'd noticed that like half his
face was like burnt off, like you know, just like
you get his face and down and through his neck
(01:06:12):
and stuff. It was like totally burnt off, and like, Hi,
you know Michael his nickname was Lefty. Yeah. Well yeah, yeah,
and you know Michael, Roger George. He'll be responsible for
the explosions and all the fires. Nice to meet you, man.
But we had a sequence and it was when Cole
(01:06:37):
Reese jumps into the trash can. He puts a bomb
in the back of the truck, and which was a miniature,
but he puts a bomb. In the movie, what you
see is a miniature blowing up. But he takes the
bomb that he makes with her after he's after they
(01:06:58):
have sex, they start making bomb or is it before
they have sex. I think the bombs are probably a
little bit of a hey, look look I got a
bomb here. Yeah you think about that, Yeah, I think
we made the bombs first. Yeah. So anyway, so anyway,
(01:07:18):
I take that bomb, I throw it in the back
of that truck and then Kyle Reese jumps into a
trash can. And I'm telling you, Roger George, you know,
had a reputation for being over the top, and whatever
explosive he's he used was just like ten times what
they were expecting, you know. And the you know, the
(01:07:42):
entire neighborhood for miles in every direction. You know, we're
all calling, and you know, the police came and they
wanted to shut us down. They wanted to shut us
down because of of Roger George being over the top.
But of course Jim was probably thinking, I like that,
(01:08:03):
you know, and Jim, Jim, Jim was always just like
more bombs, more blood, more, you know, action, more fighting, more,
you know love, you know, like it's just more and
more and more and more and more. But I watched
you know, Gail deal with the police who basically, you're done,
You're done, You're shot. You're not shooting out at this
(01:08:25):
location anymore. You don't set off bombs in our city
like that. You don't do that. You know, who do
you think you are? I watched Gail, you know, negotiate
with the police department for you know, a couple of
hours for us to be able to stay at the
(01:08:45):
location and finish, no, try to finish our night's work.
After that explosion, so Gail was really very very very
important part of uh.
Speaker 1 (01:09:04):
Literally good at putting out fires.
Speaker 2 (01:09:06):
So there you go. Oh, but she you know, and
and and uh, it's interesting that when Jim and Gail
made the Terminator, they were dating and and you know
her name is on the terminators. Yeah, the name is
on the script. And uh kind of reminds me, Jim.
(01:09:27):
She probably did with Cameron what we what we did,
like you do like eighty percent of ninety percent of
the writing when we'd write stuff together. But I would
kind of get in and say, well, well, kind of
seeing this and done this, and yeah, should change this
up a little bit.
Speaker 1 (01:09:48):
Content is largely your influt.
Speaker 2 (01:09:51):
Well, it was a lot of times it was my idea,
but you did the writing and then I.
Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
Would kind of do the phrasing would be mine and
then it would be you know, a kind of a
joint process after that. But but yeah, she, but I
see the analogy you're going for. Well, they uh, when
I when I met them, they were boyfriend and girlfriend.
(01:10:16):
Then when they did Aliens, uh, they had gotten married, and.
Speaker 2 (01:10:23):
And then when we did the Abyss, they gotten divorced.
So they were divorced when we shot the Abyss if
you can imagine that and working your way sort of
through that. And that was She's I haven't talked about
about doing the Abyss, and I will, you know, at
(01:10:43):
some point, but I don't know what what else? What
else do we have to talk about today?
Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
Any one thing?
Speaker 2 (01:10:53):
Abyss?
Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
Was your first go around.
Speaker 2 (01:10:55):
With Ed Harris? Yeah, And you know I've said before
or that I always liked Ed, Ed was. I used
to kind of consider him like a real man's man.
And I've always described the differences between Ed and I
that I he'd show up to the set in his
(01:11:17):
you know, truck, his old truck, and I'd come in
in my Mercedes and I was smoking, smoking Marlborough whites,
and you know, he'd have the camel no filters, and
I'd go out jogging, you know, and he'd be hitting
the heavy bag. You know. It was. It was always
just kind of a throwback, very nice.
Speaker 1 (01:11:40):
And sometime around shortly I think around the time of
The Rock, when I was reading the story analysis and
stuff for William Morris, I was given a book about
Jackson Pollock and I liked it quite a bit and recommended, hey, yeah,
this is this is pretty good. And then about a
year later, Uh, I see, I got a script for
(01:12:03):
a movie, and that's the movie Ed Harris started and
wound up directing. Yeah, I think it's a very good movie.
Don't you have you seen it?
Speaker 2 (01:12:11):
Yeah? Yeah, you know, I mean that he got a
did that win in a did somebody win an Academy
Award for that movie?
Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
Did Marcia Gay, Hayden.
Speaker 2 (01:12:20):
Marsha Marchia day? Marcia Gay? What is it? Hayden not
Marsia Day, not a Hayden Marshia day. But maybe you're right, Yeah,
you very well could be right. Yeah, no, that was Yeah,
it was a good movie. And Hardened Marshad Heart Okay, yeah,
no it was Yeah, that was Ed Harris and uh,
(01:12:43):
you know, and and I always uh in both movies
that we'd done before and oh, by the way, we
had a little chat after the after. Yeah. He's always
been a very gracious but uh kind of intense dude.
(01:13:06):
You know, he's you can see outtakes of him when
he will will fuck up his lines, you know, and
he'll be doing his lines a dog buzzer, give me,
give me.
Speaker 3 (01:13:23):
Well, we had Clifton Collins Collins.
Speaker 2 (01:13:26):
On and Clifton Collins talking about working with him and
I and I've seen some stuff on YouTube where their
outtakes of him like getting half a damn it but
foss hurt, you know, Clifton, and so he's like kind
of an intense dude. But again I didn't I didn't
(01:13:49):
really have a chance to get to know Ed real
well when we did the Abyss. He was very close
to all those people that were part of his crew.
They were all they'd always hang out and take together,
and Mary Elizabeth moust Antonio and that whole group was
just that group and they would all work together, they
would hang out together, and then I'd come in and
(01:14:12):
I was the bad guy and it was just me
and a couple of other seals that really didn't have
that much to do. Chris Murphy played one of them,
but you know, they didn't have that much to do.
So I never really really got to know Ed real well.
I remember that when we did what year was that
that we shot the Abyss? We had it was came
(01:14:41):
out eighty nine, Okay, so in nineteen eighty eight there
was a World Series and it was the Yankees against
the Dodgers, and the only interaction really I remember with
Ed was that we bet on that series and he
had the Dodgers and I had New York and uh
(01:15:05):
he ended up winning. You know that's the I think
that's the famous I think I watched with Ed Harris.
What was the name of that baseball player that was
like Dnsen and uh he was hurt real badly. Was
(01:15:26):
a Dodgers player, Kurt what is it? No, no, no, no, no, no,
he's a Dodger. He was a Dodger and he was hurt. Gibson,
Gibson something.
Speaker 1 (01:15:37):
Oh yeah, Gibson.
Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
Okay, well I'll think of his first name in the second,
but it was Kirk, Kirk Gibson, Kirk Kirk, Kirk Gibson. Okay, yeah, uh,
well he he came up. You know it was like
a very important part of that world series where he
was hurt. He hadn't been playing and Tommy needed somebody
(01:16:01):
to pitch hit and you know, he wasn't even in
He was in the in the in the locker room
and and Kurt Gibbson, you know, they asked him to
if he could, if he if he could go to
the plate, and he limped to the plate and you
know it could barely make it, you know, and barely
(01:16:22):
get it get into his stance and uh uh you
know this ends up hitting a home run. And you
see it.
Speaker 1 (01:16:29):
Doesn't even look like he swung at the ball. I
mean he didn't, he was so leaning, but he he
almost just sort of like slapped at it and it
went over the fence. And the only way it could
have worked out well for him was to hear a
home run, because he never could have out run.
Speaker 2 (01:16:47):
Yeah, I mean he limped his way around the bases
and that and as the ball.
Speaker 1 (01:16:53):
Is arcing towards the because it kind of came close
to the going fowl, he's most yeah yeah, look kind
of looking at it like holding his o's waiting for
it to fall fare and then he then he sort
of limps off. So no, it's a classic moment. I
think it was a game winning.
Speaker 2 (01:17:14):
They would call it a walk off and limp off
home Yeah. That that baseball game I watched with Ed.
I remember watching that game with him quite watching that
series was taking place. Uh and you know ed Ed
had he had some problems, uh with Jim and uh uh,
(01:17:38):
he certainly wasn't happy with the with the end result.
In the end of the movie, which I've talked before
about Jim showing me a couple of cuts, his cut
in the studios what he wanted the studio to do
with the end of the movie, and he ended up
doing what the studio wanted to do. But anyway, let's
(01:18:00):
worried about a minute twenty right around the time that
we should probably wrap up. Is there anything else, Jemis? I?
Speaker 1 (01:18:10):
I was just thinking of Ed Harris. You know, he
first came to light in The Right Stuff playing John Glenn.
Speaker 2 (01:18:17):
Yes, much like Glenn.
Speaker 1 (01:18:18):
But I remember a movie he made in nineteen about
nineteen eighty four, a Nick Nolty movie called under Fire,
about journalists in Nicaragua, and he shows up in two
scenes where he plays an American mercenary, and he's howlingly
funny in these scenes. And what is basically a dramatic movie,
(01:18:40):
but he's howlingly funny in these things, and he really
lights up the screen. And that's a movie I strongly
recommend to anyone in well.
Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
He's always very good. And forty eight hours ago I
watched just because I hadn't seen it in a long
time and I didn't remember it very well. I watched
a movie called a Beautiful Mind, which is uh the
Ron Howard movie and.
Speaker 1 (01:19:05):
I want an Oscar best I believe, Yeah, and Brian
Grazer yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:19:10):
And and he plays a character that is that is
kind of fictionalized in the lead character's mind. I mean,
he plays a character that's not even really there, you know.
Uh So, and he's he's always always, always been very good.
(01:19:34):
A movie that he did where they're on the docks
and he fished. It has to do with fishing and
fishing rights and uh Asian community. That was a that
was a really good, really good movie. And he's is
it called Alamo Bay? Is that yeah? Louis Mall Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
(01:19:56):
You can't really go wrong with Ed Harris. He also
did a movie it was The Sniper where they.
Speaker 1 (01:20:02):
You know, with with Joseph Fines about the Sniper, the installingrad.
Speaker 2 (01:20:08):
Yes, Enemy of the Gates, that's terrific. Who directed that one?
Speaker 3 (01:20:14):
That was Jean Jacques.
Speaker 2 (01:20:16):
Jean, yeah, Jehan question The Fire Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
I went up here.
Speaker 1 (01:20:24):
You've seen the movie then, right, Michael? Question for Fire
or no, no, no Enemy at the Gate.
Speaker 2 (01:20:28):
Oh yeah, wow, I'm not sure if I've seen it
from beginning to end.
Speaker 1 (01:20:35):
I only thought once, but I just remember being captivated by.
Speaker 2 (01:20:38):
It's It's Ed Harrison and Law and Joseph Finds.
Speaker 3 (01:20:46):
Justsephind Jude Law, Rachel Weiss.
Speaker 2 (01:20:48):
Okay, so this is uh after he did Schindler's List,
right after he did Schindler's List. Joseph Fines, we're talking
Joseph related to dre Yes they are, Oh, they're brothers.
Joseph Findes. What what did Joseph Findes? I didn't even
(01:21:09):
know that here, I am like all the Ray Fines.
Of course I know him, But what did Joseph Findes
do the.
Speaker 3 (01:21:15):
First big credit of Shakespeare in Love?
Speaker 2 (01:21:17):
Oh? Okay, all right, I always thought they were the
same guy. That guy's got a really good career, man.
Speaker 1 (01:21:29):
A lot.
Speaker 2 (01:21:29):
Yeah, so that was that was Jean Jackino movie, right right? Yeah, anyway,
what was the movie Jim that I'm gonna throw this
out and then then then then we're gonna go and
that is a movie. I don't like movies that I
can't understand, and I don't like movies that have got
like weird flashbacks. And you know, we we've talked about
(01:21:54):
I've talked about the fact that I like get in
the middle of the beginning and the end. And that's
that's the type of movie that I really like. And
uh but I did see a movie about fifteen years
ago that absolutely loved, absolutely adored gem and it was
the one that starts at the end and goes to
(01:22:16):
the beginning. Do you remember us talking about that? Yes?
What was the name of that movie? Do you remember?
Speaker 1 (01:22:23):
It's it's the word irreversible, irreversible in French, so you
would need some of the accents and in certain places.
Speaker 2 (01:22:35):
Who is this Who was the star that French? Well,
Monica was in it. Yeah, Vince Cassell, Yeah, Vince Cassell
and I had did we did the movie. Vince Cassell
and I did the movie and I was I was
fucking wild on that movie. And I think I might
have been going through a uh manic episode. And I
(01:22:56):
went to I went to France to shoot the movie
and he was in it. It was way way before
he took off, and uh I uh, I just think
that I, you know, I just because of the travel
and whatever, I had the manic episode. I went over.
I remember I got like paid one hundred thousand dollars,
like three or four weeks of work in a little
(01:23:18):
town outside of France, and that was the movie that
I then and instead of wrapping and flying back over
to England where your mother was, I went to the
George Sank Hotel, which is and you got a big
suite at the George Sank Hotel and uh spent the
(01:23:42):
next two weeks spending most of that one hundred thousand dollars,
had a drive, full time driver. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:23:52):
You went out to the gym Mores Grave Slide.
Speaker 2 (01:23:55):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I was just throwing it, throwing
it all over the place.
Speaker 1 (01:24:00):
I was.
Speaker 2 (01:24:02):
Yeah, that was. That was a good time. That was
That was a great time.
Speaker 1 (01:24:07):
That came over and sudden you got no but you know.
Speaker 2 (01:24:09):
Even when Gina came over, and I think that Gina
probably remembers it differently, but I, you know, I you know,
I was. I was just having so much fun in life.
I was just enjoying life so much, yeah, and just everything.
And I believe you were.
Speaker 3 (01:24:27):
Just a baby, would have been three.
Speaker 2 (01:24:29):
Yeah, yeah, because I remember me kind of hooking back
up with you as far as you you know, me
and me going with back with Gina and me being
like kind of fascinated again by like you, like being
three and following you around and so yeah, that was
(01:24:50):
a that was a that was a good time. That
was a really really good time. Like I've said on
the other podcast, just it's been so lucky to have
some of me. It's the locations and interesting people and
of course I met Caitlin's mother when I was doing
Aliens and uh so anyway, it's been a it's been
(01:25:16):
a good time, and I want to thank everybody. You know.
It's like like fun now, like I don't really didn't
do it before, but now I kind of look look
at my phone and go like, oh, look, look do
some people look like Oh, we've got like a group
of people that like like listening to us, and that
uh it's nice. It's like kind of getting like a
good review. So I want to thank everybody who listens
(01:25:41):
to us. Jim and I always think we always talk
like this, no matter like we're doing a podcast or not.
We're just like this. We spent our entire existence with
each other anyway, just like talking like this, and we've
always I'm always like, I don't know, Jimmy am I
as funny as I think I am? Know?
Speaker 1 (01:26:00):
And you might start off on one topic and go
around the world with other subjects come up along the way.
Well it's just a little bit like long talk about
the rock and the next thing I know, I'm watching
uh you know, uh, I'm watching Leaf and you know,
and uh so, anyway, thank you Jim for hanging in.
(01:26:27):
As I said before, I know how much you're getting paid,
so I really appreciate you. You're doing this, and uh,
I love you, and thank you for getting me involved
in this.
Speaker 2 (01:26:38):
Been a good time and we'll see you next week.
A strange show, which hand would you choose? One two
(01:27:02):
like a beat carried on without shoes or two lights seers?
Jo