035: Michael Biehn's Experience as a Director on 'The Victim' and 'The Blood Bond'

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I have declared or against my brain in order to see.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
That.

Speaker 1 (00:05):
One's don't seem to so long as I only will
be one time the stays I don't have to.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Do I think. Yeah, hey, Jim, Hi, there a right, Jim,
are you what are you talking about?

Speaker 3 (00:30):
I was asking him about the I was asking him
about the new Predator movie on Hulu that he does
a voice in.

Speaker 4 (00:35):
Oh, is that right? I was wondering what that was
a reference to. You said the Predator movie on Hulu,
and I've seen a couple of references in the comments
in the most recent episode that dropped today.

Speaker 3 (00:49):
Yeah, I was what I was telling him. I don't
have Hulu, so I haven't been able to watch it yet.
But yeah, it's by this director that did the last
Predator movie called Prey, which is really good. But yeah,
I was asking him because I was I saw some
comments that are like, you now join Lance Hendrickson and
Bill Paxson. Is the only people that have fought a terminator,

(01:09):
an alien and a Predator.

Speaker 4 (01:10):
Yes, Bill was in that group and Lance.

Speaker 2 (01:16):
Wow.

Speaker 4 (01:17):
Yeah, quite quite a threesome there.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah. Uh I, Jim, Uh, I forgot last time we talked,
but I thought that, Uh, maybe today instead of talking
about wonderful movies and great directors that I worked with,

(01:42):
and uh, uh great situations and great locations, I might
I might go, I might go the opposite way, the
dark side. Yeah, it's you, Michael.

Speaker 4 (01:55):
It's it's it's bursting, you know, like like like the
creature from Alien, it's just dying to erupt from you.

Speaker 2 (02:02):
And well, you know, we already we already talked a
little bit about the Christopher Copula movies. So I wanted
to talk you know, and and Jim, you know that
I had, you know, somewhat interested in this recently. And

(02:22):
I did a movie I was probably twenty years ago,
and it was called Dragon Squad and I, you know,
I got prayed paid pretty well. Uh. That was shooting
in Hong Kong. I had already been to Hong Kong

(02:44):
with the on the George C. Scott movie. This this
was a brand new Hong Kong, and uh, mostly what
I remember about it is, again like aliens, they wanted.
They took into some apartment building someplace and uh said,
you can stay here and we'll bring in some groceries
for you, and you know you're gonna be here A

(03:06):
couple of weeks and there's seven to eleven down the street,
and I was like, I don't know, I don't think so,
I don't think that that that that that I want
to go into Hong Kong.

Speaker 5 (03:21):
You know.

Speaker 2 (03:22):
It was kind of the outskirts of Hong Kong. I
want to be in Hong Kong. And they had a
guy by the name of Bay Logan, and Bay spoke
English very well. He was English, he was born in England,
and he went over to Europe to be I mean,
he went over to Asia to be a Hong Kong
to be in the in the film industry over there.

(03:48):
What what a lot of people don't realize is, you know,
there are so many different film communities. I mean, Australia
has its own community. America of course does too, but Hong.

Speaker 6 (04:03):
Kong, India, India, mid Bollywood they call it exactly. And
Hong Kong is Hong Kong was a bidle and has
been for years of vital and thriving film community.

Speaker 4 (04:16):
John Wu. Lots of lots of names, lots of incredible
movies have come out of Hong Kong over the last
forty years or so, at least.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
Well, the one I'm going to talk about is in one.

Speaker 7 (04:26):
Of them, and then there's well, listen, I went over
there to do a thing called Dragon Squad and I
forget the name of the director, but he was a
nice guy and well respected, you know, well respected, and
I think had had some good credits and Daniel Lee, yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:51):
Daniel Ly and it was a kind of an action
you know, uh deal. And so anyway, they they wanted
to be, you know, in an apartment on the outside
of town. I'm like, yeah, no, you know, let's go
into Hong Kong and look around. And they had a
guy that was sort of looking after me. I'm not

(05:14):
sure if he had a title on the movie or not,
but his name was Bay Logan and uh and he
spoke English. Was born, like I said, he was born
in England. And so he was looking at looking after me,
and he's I said like, let's go into Hong Kong.
I'll find a hotel and uh. So we're driving along,

(05:36):
I'm like, uh ah, h is it the Mandalorian not Manlorian?
Is Madale not Mandala Jim? Is it Mandalorian? Would it
be the Mandalorian over there?

Speaker 4 (05:51):
No?

Speaker 2 (05:52):
The mand Okay? Yeah, well, I think Ritz Carlton Okay,
it wasn't the Ritz Carlton, but it was.

Speaker 4 (05:59):
One of the caliber.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
Yeah, and Marian Mandrian, Yeah maybe is that is that
up there with them? Pretty much this was this anyway,
So I go, I'm not sure if that was it,
but anyway, it doesn't make any difference. I think the
Rech Carlton in Hong Kong. So and I unlike I
didn't know. I just saw like it was a hotel
and let's go in there. So uh we walk in

(06:22):
there and it was just it was just incredible. It
was just one of the most beautiful hotels that I'd
ever been in. And I said, yeah, I think I'll
stay here for me. I don't know about that apartment
on the outside of town. Uh. So, so I did

(06:45):
stay there, and I I had a really nice Hong
Kong is a very it was now this was before
the whole you know, turnover to the Chinese, and it
was a really interesting fun area, especially certain parts of

(07:05):
Hong Kong, the main h kind of downtown district. It's
very hilly, but it's very kind of hip and uh
and I really enjoyed it. I really uh i uh,
I really had a good time and uh and I
shot this movie, and bay Logan got to be a

(07:26):
friend of mine. He was very, very funny and a
lot of fun to be around. And uh we used
to joke quite a bit and have a good time.
And and then you know, I did the movie and
and went home. And now if you look on IMDb
you'll see Dragon Squad, you'll see the name of the director.

(07:47):
They gave it a number. I think it's like a
six or something. Uh. There were some pretty good action sequences.
There are a couple of gunfights in it. They don't exactly
rival heat, but there they're good. They're they're they're they're
good gunfights and uh in it and uh uh so

(08:10):
uh somewhere along the line, you know, bay Logan and
I stayed in uh contact with each other, just because
I thought it was a lot of fun, tall, sort
of attractive guy and English. But but but and and
he was making his his he was married and had

(08:32):
a couple of little kids, and I think, well, I
obviously had a couple of little kids at that point,
you know, so we had a lot of things in common.
And somewhere along the line he started working. Uh, he's
he was for Harvey Weinstein and this was I think

(08:56):
after I had worked with him, where he was just
kind of a I would just call him a gopher,
you know, like if he wasn't doing this, he would
have been running and getting if it wasn't looking after me,
he would have been.

Speaker 8 (09:08):
Was he was doing any producing on that No, no,
I And this is the type of credit you would
have gotten, an associate producer credit.

Speaker 2 (09:17):
For it, you know, like, yeah, yeah, he looked after me.
He made sure I was happy. He made sure that I,
you know, could speak to people because you know, nobody,
nobody spoke English, and and I liked him quite a bit.
And so in the meantime, after I finished that movie, uh,
he went to work for Harvey Weinstein and he went

(09:39):
to work uh and uh, you know, we stayed in
in contact with each other, and uh he at one
point said, you know, I've got some money, Michael, Uh,
if you'd be willing to direct a movie over in

(10:02):
over here, well actually in China. And I forgot to
look up the name of the city we were in China
because it wasn't a city. It was backwoods, backwoods, like
like it was just yeah, so so I you know,
like so I had uh seen uh A a movie

(10:33):
uh at a film festival called The Signal and it
was directed by a guy named Dan Bush, and they
wrote it him and his partner, uh wrote it and
they directed it, and I remember thinking how good it was.
So I kind of contacted Dan Bush and I said, listen,
this is a friend of mine over in Hong Kong

(10:53):
says he wants to make a movie in China, and uh,
you know, would you be interested in right something up?
And they wrote something up and I passed it on
to Bay and basically, well, all that looks pretty good.
I had something else in mind, but yeah, that looks
something good. Good. So anyway, you know, so they start

(11:15):
writing the script and you know, we're not you know,
big time uh filmmakers or or writers or anything. But
you know, six weeks later I was I was in
Hong Kong with Bay and we had you know, a
script and uh I wasn't quite finished, but uh we'd

(11:39):
worked on it. And uh. At that point, Bay I
had been working for the Weinstein Company and he could
not stop talking about Harvey Weinstein. He and the reason
why is because Harvey Weinstein was you know, a big
star at that time. I mean, yeah, and he was

(12:01):
just from nineties.

Speaker 4 (12:03):
He was, he was, he was. He was winning Oscars
for movies like Shakespeare in Love, Yeah, and good Will.

Speaker 2 (12:10):
That would have been one of the fine brothers.

Speaker 4 (12:12):
He was the most it was. He was really one
of the most prolific producers. He and his brother Bob
with Mirrimax were among the most prolific producers really ever
but but certainly at that time. But they when he
worked with Harvey State in Hong Kong, didn't he Yes, yeah,

(12:32):
he because Merri Max had a lot of business. I
mean they imported a lot of movies made in Hong
Kong to distribute it in this country.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
Well, I don't know exactly what his title was, but
I uh, you know told you know, told him that
you know, we you know, sending the script. Uh. He
always kind of had a different, different idea in mind
about the script and what he wanted to do with

(13:00):
the script. And I was like, you know, if you
want me to direct this, and uh you should, you should.
You know, we kind of got to go with this
and uh this is Dan Bush's script, and you know
we were kind of thrown it together. We you know,
there were changes that were going to be made and

(13:21):
we cast some some sort of interesting people for it,
and uh, one woman in particular that was very successful
came over to America and I think she had her
own series over here for a while. And so, you know,
we all get in a van and we all drive
from Hong Kong into China. We just like, you know,

(13:45):
there's no you know, and we were shooting obviously close
to the border of of Hong Kong in China, and
uh uh you know, we get there and uh we
kind of get settled and yeah, the interesting thing in

(14:06):
China was they put me up in a hotel in China.
Now I'm not talking about the hotel in Hong Kong.
The hotel in China was like massive and gorgeous and
uh stunning and empty. You know, they're just there, just

(14:32):
wasn't anybody there. They're just just like me.

Speaker 4 (14:36):
And everything that they won't come if every.

Speaker 2 (14:42):
Once in a while you'd see, uh, you know, some
dignitaries would come in and they would be there. I
didn't use the hotel that much. I couldn't order room service.
I you know, I had trouble speaking you know, they
didn't speak you know, when you speak English, you just

(15:03):
you know, when you go places, you just assumed that
they're going to be able to speak a little bit
of English, you.

Speaker 4 (15:10):
Know, in the service industry like hotels, maybe.

Speaker 2 (15:14):
Well you know, like I had to you know, you know,
I couldn't order an egg so or eggs so. But anyway,
so anyway, we you know, kind of got our our
crew together. And what Bay had done was he had
a friend who was Chinese and had a factory and

(15:38):
had some people that worked at his factor was a
big factory, and had some people that worked at his
factory that were going to be the crew on the
on the show. But like, none of them had any
fucking experience. You know, none of them, you know, had

(15:58):
been wardrobe people. Well, none of them had been gaffers.
None of them had been you know, transportation, none of
them had been none of them had really you know sound.
I remember the sound guy coming up, the guy that
they told me it was going to be a sound guy,

(16:19):
and he came up to put a mic on me,
and the mic was about as big as half a dollar.
You know. You know, these days, you know, you stick
something inside of your tie or you know, you can't
even see anything. But even back then, you know, you
you would never see a MIC. And you know, I

(16:40):
began to realize very very quickly, you know that this,
this was this was going to be a problem because
it's like playing on a baseball team when nobody knows
how to play their position. They don't even know what
a baseball is. And and and yet they said, well,
this guy is going to be your first ad. There's

(17:02):
one guy who spoke English. Oh oh, and the there
was a DP. There was a guy on there who
was a DP and he was from I want to
say again, Australia. Uh. And he was He was a
good guy and he was a good DP. He had
some some pretty good credits and so you know, we

(17:26):
went off to make this movie and it was incredibly
difficult for me because nobody spoke English and nobody really
knew what they were doing, and so I was running
around like trying to do everybody's job for them. And

(17:46):
it was uh. And the locations were beautiful. The locations
and where we were shooting were just you know, gorgeous.
It was sot of back country China, little villages in
China where you know, kids are running around with the

(18:08):
you know, diapers with the little hole in the diaper
that like comes down and and I had, you know,
I wanted to make this script. And the script was
not tiny. It wasn't all shot in a room. You know.
It had some some some meat to it, and it
had some some action in it. And one of the

(18:32):
things that we wanted to do was like a lot
of fighting, a lot of martial arts. And I think
that Bay might have brought over a stuntman or two.

Speaker 5 (18:42):
But it it it dissolved very very very quickly into
just like me just running around trying to do everybody
else's job.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
You know. It's like as well as star in the movie,
as well as star in the movie, and uh yeah,
just imagine a baseball team where you know, you got
to you got a pitcher and a catcher and then
you've got a shortstop and a center fielder and that's it.

(19:18):
And you know, uh and it was very frustrating, but
you know, I was young. I did I just like,
you know, it was kind of going for it to
the best of my ability. And Bay was always Bey
was not part of the UH crew per se. He

(19:38):
always was kind of a way. He seemed to have
a girlfriend or two that he was around. Uh if
I needed Bay for something, I'd run and find him
and he was always entertaining and a couple of actresses
or you know that that were Chinese. Uh and uh

(20:02):
uh So it was a it was a really you
know me, I'm just like I just like put my
head down, like, screw it, let's go, let's do it.
Let's shoot it, like you know here here, let me
you know, I'll run in, I'll do this set design,
I'll you know here, put this on, like, let's go,

(20:24):
let's shoot this. Let's shoot it, you know. And uh,
it was a looking back on it, like I just
didn't have a chance. I didn't at the time. I
was enthusiastic about it, but you know, I just I
didn't have a chance at all.

Speaker 9 (20:40):
And Hi, I'm Dylan, I'm Bat and I'm Ruby And
we host a podcast called bad Tv.

Speaker 4 (20:47):
What do we talk about?

Speaker 2 (20:48):
On bad Tv? We talked about shows, all your favorite
reality TV shows. We recap below Deck, the end of.

Speaker 10 (20:54):
Pump Rules, Love is Blind. What else do we cover about?

Speaker 2 (20:57):
We just finished The Golden Bachelor.

Speaker 9 (20:58):
That was fun, but occasionally go back and recap shows
that could never be made today, like Flavor of Love
season two, Not Sure if anybody remembers. But in the
first episode, Something on the Floor.

Speaker 10 (21:09):
And that's a fact. A girl, a woman named Something
on the floor.

Speaker 9 (21:14):
So if you're looking for a podcast that mocks all
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subscribe to bad TV on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or anywhere
you listen to podcasts.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
By about about halfway through shooting, Jennifer came over and
Jennifer started talking about Bay and she started saying, I
don't know about this guy, but.

Speaker 4 (21:45):
Her sense was detecting something disturbance.

Speaker 2 (21:51):
I don't know about this Bay Logan guy. I'm not
too sure about it. No, And I'm like, no, no, no,
he's great, so funny, Yeah, he's fine, Okay, okay, yeah, no,
we're making the movie. Uh. And another thing too, was
at that time, uh we were able to cut the

(22:12):
movie and uh and and and and watch it. This
was a digital time. This was not film and uh,
they were shooting digitally. And you know, so if I
wanted to, I could just go watch what I shot
the night before and talk to my editor, who the
wasn't there wasn't an editor, but like in my mind,

(22:36):
you know, I found somebody that kind of knew what
they were doing, but Bay never wanted us to do that.
He never wanted us to go try to edit anything together.
And uh, after a while, it just felt like Bay
was working against me. Started talking about his script and
the script that he wanted to do, and he wanted
to put a helicopter in it, and he wanted to

(22:58):
do this, he wanted to do that. I'm I'm like, well,
you know, we've already shot half of it, and like
what you're talking about, Scott like nothing to do with
like what I shot, and and and plus what i'd
shot to was like like I said, I mean, I
was working with both hands tied behind my back, both hands.
The reason I'm really bringing up the whole point of

(23:19):
this is because if you go to IMDb and it
will say, you know, Michael Bean has acted in all
these movies, He's produced all these movies. I'm going to
get to at some point all those producing credits that

(23:40):
I have on there, but that I directed two movies.
One movie is called The Victim, which I take full
responsibility for, although we shot it for like two hundred
thousand dollars, but yeah, I take full responsibility for that.
The Blood bond. On the other hand, what happened was

(24:02):
we we did finish it. I think I described to you.
I mean it it got to a point where, you know,
we were in gun fights and uh, you know, we
had no uh we didn't have like guns that shot,
we didn't shot, we didn't have blanks, we didn't have
special effects. You know. I was running around with a

(24:25):
black magic marking marker making like little holes in the
like like like like like round circles filled in so
it looked like like the wall had been shot up,
you know, And I was and I was like, you know,
I was on fire. I was like, you know, just
doing the very best in it. And I've always been

(24:46):
that way. I've always just like given everything that I
had to it, even though like the DP and and
and and and eventually Jennifer was like, Michael, this this
I don't know, man, this situation is really bad and
I don't I would I get a really bad feeling
about this guy. She had spent some time with his

(25:08):
wife uh Uh in Hong Kong, uh and then she
came over to visit him, and of course he had
these two or three Chinese girlfriends that and Jennifer was
just like this guy. I don't you know, I'm like, ah,
he's okay, he's okay. But by the time the production

(25:30):
was over, I knew that, you know that he wasn't
happy with me. He wasn't He definitely didn't like Jennifer. Uh.
And it was just a kind of a bad, bad situation.
So what was supposed to happen is I was supposed to,
uh go back to America for two weeks, kind of regroup,

(25:57):
uh see my other children, uh or and then fly
back to Hong Kong and cut the movie together. Well
he never brought me back. So what I shot with
a really really dismal crew. Uh, if you could, if

(26:18):
you could even call it a crew, nobody spoke English.

Speaker 4 (26:21):
Crew would be overestimating skeleton crew.

Speaker 2 (26:26):
Yeah, skeletons look like skeletons. You yeah, you know, my
my guys just none of them really knew knew very much,
and and and and and and were able to They
wanted to try, they wanted to help, but you don't
just you know, you don't. You know. That's why you

(26:49):
know people are good at what they do is because
they've been doing it a long time and they know
what they're doing. Uh so. Uh So anyway, I I
every time time I ever go on IMDb, I get
to that thing that and it says, uh blood bond
uh like directed by Michael Bean, And I just I'm

(27:13):
always saying to myself, you know, I want to be
I want that thing that Jim Cameron does with Piranha,
like the original. Yeah, like I didn't you know, he
didn't direct that. He's someody somehow, he's you know, he's
been able to go like this was a ship show.
I got fired. I didn't get to cut it. You know,

(27:34):
I don't I disavow this movie, you know.

Speaker 5 (27:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:39):
Yeah, And so anyway that I wanted to bring this
up because I didn't direct that movie. I didn't direct it.
So I said to Jim on the phone, uh of

(28:00):
days ago, Hey, do me a favor, Jim. Can you
look up a guy by the name of bay Logan,
loves Harvey Weinstein, works for Harvey Weinstein. And I told
me all stories of stories about him and Harvey Weinstein.
Can you look him up? And can you tell me,

(28:20):
Jim what you found out online? This is you know,
Wikipedia sort of stuff, an article in Variety.

Speaker 4 (28:33):
I think, I think, I think what popped up first.
First of all, his name is spelled b e y.
And I think what first popped up were articles about controversies, right.

Speaker 10 (28:46):
And.

Speaker 4 (28:49):
They were all stemming from about twenty seventeen. I think
he got into some kind of me too situation back then,
emulating his boss Harvey and uh and and up popped
all these articles from Hollywood Reporter, Variety, et cetera about
him getting into trouble. And I forwarded a couple of

(29:10):
those to you, I believe.

Speaker 2 (29:12):
Yeah, which you know, I I didn't get it. I
didn't get a chance to read.

Speaker 3 (29:19):
Well, I just I just I just googled his name
when he started talking about it.

Speaker 10 (29:22):
I didn't know you're getting to do it.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
And the first thing that pops up is a Variety
article from twenty seventeen titled Weinstein Asian executive Bay Logan
accused of sexual misconducts. There Hey, Logan, a Hong Kong
based film executive, was a close relationship with Harvey Weinstein,
has been accused of sexual harassment. Logan denies any criminal wrongdoing,
but admits to mistakes and were made and a two

(29:46):
care free attitude towards physical encounters with women.

Speaker 2 (29:49):
Oh wow, that's that's that's that's usually usually, I mean
usually you don't get that. Usually you just get I deny,
I deny, I deny. Well I played around, you know,

(30:09):
I used to wrestle around a little bit. But yeah,
and you know, this is not America, it's not even Europe.
It's England. It's Hong Kong. Uh. You know, there's different
values and the way they value women, and you know,
it's just it, you know. But I I didn't know

(30:32):
that he had been uh accused by eight or I
think it's I didn't read the whole article. I just
kind of thought like it because I'm such an idiot.
I'm like telling Jennifer d guy he's cool, he's all right,
you know, he's like uh and Jennifer just like immediately said,
this guy's a dirt bag, Michael, this guy's a fucking

(30:54):
dirt bag. And uh uh so uh, I guess why
I didn't see him very much while we were making
the movie. He was making his way around the Chinese
community in that area. And one of the things that

(31:15):
I like about the podcast is that I'm never going
to write a book. It's never going to write a book.
And I've said before. The reason why is just because
I don't know how to form a sentence. I don't
know where commas go, I don't know where a semi
colon is. I don't know when to start a new paragraph.

(31:36):
I don't know any of that shit. And you know,
people say, oh, you don't need to you just talk
to somebody and they'll write it. I'm like, you know what,
I don't you know, I don't really want to do that.
That that to me seems a little false. That's like
being an actor and having them like put lines in
your ear, and it just feels a little false to me.
So I've said to Kaitlin, and I said to you before, Jim,

(32:01):
this this this opportunity that I have to talk about me.
But well, you know this isn't hopefully it's you know,
it's not about me. Uh. We've got a great guest
coming up. Uh, well, we've got a couple of good
guests coming up.

Speaker 3 (32:22):
But do you know uh, oh Kathy Baker. Yeah, Kathy
Baker coming in.

Speaker 2 (32:29):
Yeah, we've got Kathy Baker coming in. But you know
what dates shall be here.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
Yeah, she's gonna be in. She's coming in next week.
So that episode will come out probably.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
So we're gonna have we're gonna start having some people
back on again. And by the way, I just wanted
to mention two people that maybe have joined in the
podcast later on that some of the filmmakers that I
talked to most of all Adam Winguard. You know, like nobody,

(33:04):
I'm telling you this guy in a year or two years,
I'm gonna be so lucky that I had this interview
with him, because everybody's gonna want to talk to him,
and it it's people like Adam uh that uh that

(33:24):
that you know, I find the most interesting conversations to
have with with directors and Ditto Montill, who's another one,
uh and uh Kathy Baker actually played uh uh in

(33:48):
Ditto's movie, and Robin Williams plays a character in the movie,
and Kathy plays his wife, and and you know, Ditto
Montille directed it. And Ditto's just a great, great guy.
But I notice, you know that that not as many

(34:12):
people go and see Ditto. We also had on uh
uh Quentin I'm sorry, Quentin Tarantino.

Speaker 4 (34:21):
Yeah, Shannon mcintalk.

Speaker 2 (34:23):
We had Shannon McIntosh on, who produced a bunch of
uh of Quentin Tarantino stuff, and uh is that playing?

Speaker 10 (34:31):
Is your phone plan? Now on your phone?

Speaker 2 (34:34):
Now? Oh, somebody's calling me my creditors. Now Here's the thing?
Is like, like, I've always had bad credit, you know,
fucking I always had horrible credit. And uh, over the
last six months, I've decided, Okay, well I'm gonna give
good credit. Not because they want to borrow money because

(34:56):
they don't want to pay interest. So but over the
last six month months or ten months, almost a year now,
I've been like, okay, I'm gonna So when I bought
a car, you know, it's one of the best ways
to get your credit up is is to buy a
car and make payments. And instead of because I used
to just buy cars and just buy the cars, I

(35:18):
never never did that. It was never very good at
like paying things. I'd forget about it and like, oh
I owe that, okay, oh I owe you for eight months?
Oh here you know. Anyway, so I've always had sort
of bad credits. I've been working on my credit. So
now my phone will not stop ringing with people that

(35:38):
want to lend me forty five thousand dollars, you know,
And so every almost every time it rings, and in
my ring tone if you can't hear it, but my
son and I and Jennifer, we just have such a
great time. It's David Bowie and he's on Ricky Tervase

(36:00):
Show and there's a there's a part in I think
it's extras. I think it's the show Extras where Ricky
Gervais approaches who did just say David Bowie along with
his girlfriend or friend and they start talking and and

(36:25):
Ricky Gervais starts talking about I's got a television series
with the BBC wants him to change it a little bit,
and then David Bowie just starts like going, oh oh,
you sold out. He starts playing the piano like funny
little fat man, you know, sold out and blah blah blah,

(36:46):
and it is it is. You know, if you haven't
seen it before, David Bowie, just look up David Bowie,
Ricky Gervais and that scene. It's just David Bowie is
so so good in it. And so anyway, getting back

(37:06):
to I'm trying to trying to figure out So getting
back to it, I guess like, like, uh, I guess, babe,
you know obviously got into trouble. I didn't notice it
looked like he wasn't married anymore. It looks like he's
on it looks like he's on his uh second marriage.
I didn't really I didn't really know all all of
the me too stuff and uh, all of the I mean,

(37:31):
I guess I kind of felt that I've never been
very good at like uh uh you know what they
say that what is it, Jim that they say, you know, actors,
you are observing you know actors are you know, the
really good actors, they really observe things, observant, thank you.

(37:55):
And I'm just not that way. I'm just like, I'm
just having fun. I'm just doing my thing. I can
give a don't worry about it, you know. Uh yeah.
And I guess he turned out to be a dirt back,
but he was, he was he was, he was friendly
with My point for the whole. The reason that I

(38:19):
brought it up is because, like I said, I'm not
going to write a book. This is going to be
my book. So maybe after I'm dead and gone, uh,
Kaitlin or maybe one of Klein's girls will go back through,
you know, four hundred hours of podcast and go, well,

(38:41):
these this hour and a half might make a nice
little book or this was this is you know and
uh uh so this is my way of being able
to tell uh my stories? Am I What happened to
me when I did the Rock? What happened to me
when I did see I always forget the name of

(39:02):
the Terrible Ones, the Blood Bond, the Blood Bond? And
what was it like working for bay Logan? That's what
it was like working for bay Logan. And yeah, I
never got to go back and cut the movie, so
I don't you know, and you know, post production is
so important to you can't just shoot a movie. And

(39:23):
then it was like what happened to Jim? You know,
they wouldn't let him cut his movie that that he
had shot. And when you can't, when you're not allowed
to have anything to do with a movie after you've
shot it, it's like playing half a football game. You can't.
It's not it's not even yeah.

Speaker 4 (39:44):
Yeah, I can see why Jim wants to disassociate himself
completely from it. It's not my movie, no, and either's this.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
Yeah, And so I just wanted to go on the
record and say that I I disavow you know, you
can't listen. I've been in a lot of movies that
are not very good, and and I, you know, like

(40:14):
I'm in them, and I made the choice to be
in him, and we're gonna I can live with that,
but I don't like to be described as the director
of a movie that I didn't direct. And I didn't
really direct it. I tried to get a group of
people that had no idea what they were doing to

(40:37):
shoot something except for the camera operator operator he operated
to the DP. I tried to get them to put
something together that I could eventually cut, and then never
got a chance to cut it. He basically said, yeah,
well come back in two weeks, Michael, And then in
two weeks you just quit quit answering my calls, and

(40:59):
and I've never spoke to him again, just like quit
answering my calls because I'd been like, when are you
bringing me out? This is like like nothing nothing. So
then I got interested in this because I wanted to
bring it up, because I wanted to say, this is
my truth, whether anybody cares or not, but this I'd
like to be able to get this down. So then

(41:21):
I looked it up on IMDb and it says it's
directed by me, Michael Bean and somebody else, and who
that other person is. I've got no idea who that
other person is.

Speaker 10 (41:36):
You know, her name is Anthony Setto.

Speaker 2 (41:40):
Yeah, and it I read the article. Uh what do
you always read, Jim? What are you always getting your
information from?

Speaker 4 (41:53):
Are you talking about Hollywood trade type? No?

Speaker 2 (41:57):
Online?

Speaker 4 (41:59):
A lot I don't from from a number of sources like.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
No, no, no, Well you always is it Wikipedia?

Speaker 4 (42:08):
Wikipedia?

Speaker 2 (42:08):
Wikipedia? So I read the Wikipedia article and basically it
gave the impression that, you know, because it was shown
like the can Film Festival or some film festival, and

(42:29):
it gave the impression that it was so poorly received
that that uh uh, they brought somebody else into like
rework it.

Speaker 5 (42:45):
Of it.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
Yeah. And and by the way, Bay did shoot a
bunch of other stuff. I mean I did see what
he had made, and all that stuff that he wanted
me to put in his movie that didn't have anything
quite to do was what I was doing. Like, it's
all in there. And this helicopter thing that he wanted

(43:07):
to do, that's all in there. It's just like kind
of a different movie mixed in with what I was
trying to do. Oh my, anyway, Yeah, it was a mess.
You know, we.

Speaker 4 (43:17):
Will be talking to Ron Shelton in the near future.
And I got to know Ron when he was working
on the Kincup screenplay and after he had shot the movie.
He invited me to a number of screenings as he
was putting the movie together. So I got to see
how that movie went from the first assembly to finished
product through all these screenings, and my god, if he

(43:41):
had not cut that movie, if that movie had been
if that all that footage that he shot had been
handed to some other director, it would be a different movie.
It would be a different movie. You know, it is
so critical.

Speaker 3 (43:53):
It was kind of like Adam Vnguard was talking a
little bit about that when he was talking about Onslaught
and wanting to kind of go back to that indie movie,
and he's like, I want final cut. This is important
to me. I want to make my movie. I want
to do it my way. I want final cut. And
that was very important to him for a Oncelaugh.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
It's very important to him. And what basically what he
said during that conversation that we had, which I would recommend, recommend,
thank you to anybody that's listening to go back and
to listen to Adam, because I think he's going to
be a big star. Is that he could have shot
three or four or five more days on that movie.

(44:35):
But it was a choice between that and or shooting
in America and having final cut, and he wanted final cut.
He wanted final cut, and h he has kind of
a fun way of saying the negotiations that are like, well,
if you want final cut, this is how much you

(44:56):
get paid. If you don't want final cut, you get
this much money. And if you do get fun if
you want to keep final cut, you know you're working
for scale here, bro, you know, kind of that sort
of thing.

Speaker 4 (45:08):
So well, we talked to him about coming back with
his producer when onslaught.

Speaker 2 (45:15):
Yeah, I'm waiting. I'm waiting to see if that waiting
to see when a date drops for you know, when
it might release, Yeah, when it might be released. And
I actually thought about I've been meaning to call him

(45:36):
and just say, hey, let's go to lunch, just to
just because I like him, you know how. Yeah, when
he was in here, it's just like a really fun
guy and he's funny and he's like just a movie guy,
and I just kind of wanted to hang out with
him again. I miss him.

Speaker 4 (45:50):
He said he he and his pals formed a Michael
Bean fan club when he was ten years old.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
Yeah. Well, I'm not sure if it was his pals
or his two brothers. And at that point it wasn't
the Michael Bean fan club. It was the Michael ben
Family fan club. Okay, okay, they did not have pronounce
my name anywhere.

Speaker 3 (46:18):
But yeah, when that comes closer, I mean, because originally
I think he's like, I wanted out Halloween, but maybe
it's gonna get pushed back.

Speaker 2 (46:24):
I don't know.

Speaker 3 (46:24):
So the release date, I remember he was like, we're
not sure when it's going to be done, but when
it is.

Speaker 2 (46:28):
I had a conversation with him and uh the producer
of the movie, and uh, we were talking about I
asked him, you know, when was the movie coming out?
And his immediate reaction to me when I was on

(46:52):
the set was Halloween. That's what he said, is Halloween. Uh.
The producer on the movie, I've forgotten his name. I
know his name, but I've forgotten his name. Love to
have him on the podcast too, because he goes all
the way back to Donnie Dark. He's produced like dozens

(47:13):
and dozens and dozens of things.

Speaker 3 (47:17):
I'm gonna just read off the producer credits. First one
behind Adam. It's Simon Barrett. No, that's his co writer,
Aaron Aaron.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
Aaron. Wait wait Aaron. I thought he had two first names,
Aaron writer. No, but it's Aaron anyway. Who are the other.

Speaker 3 (47:34):
Ones, Andrew Sweat, Jeremy Platt and Alexander.

Speaker 2 (47:39):
Black No, no, no, it's Aaron, Yeah, Aaron. And uh
so I was talking to Aaron, and I was talking
to Aaron.

Speaker 10 (47:51):
Wow, he's got a lot of really good producer credits.

Speaker 3 (47:54):
Yeah, the Prestige, Arrival, the Founder, Yeah, oh hell yeah,
yeah yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
And it was the first time they'd worked together too.
It was very interesting on Adams the movie that first
time working with him, first time working with his DP.

Speaker 3 (48:10):
He's got an executive producer for Memento and Donnie Darko.

Speaker 2 (48:13):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's a He's he's kind
of the real deal too. But he was the guy
that I think I've mentioned this story before, but when
we were shooting that movie, the fires were breaking out
in in California, and you know, everything was burning down,

(48:34):
and uh it was hard to get information and I
was shooting a sequence, uh in that movie, and it
was kind of right in the middle of about a
two page scene which was, you know, pretty important to
my character and my character's development and kind of where

(48:57):
it goes. And it's not a real big part, but
it was. It was very, very important, and it was
right in the middle of it, right in the middle of.

Speaker 3 (49:05):
It, and there was at one point a fire that
was creeping up twelve area.

Speaker 2 (49:10):
Well, what happened was, you know, the day before, huh,
the day before, we had closed the set for half
a day. Okay, so the fires had affected people that
were in La that were in New Mexico to a

(49:31):
point where they took a half a day off. Insurance
probably covered it. They took a half a day off
the day before. So now we're back at work the
following day. And this was a scene that I was
involved in with Dan Stevens, and Dan and I are
doing the scene and by the way, there's an actress
in that scene too, who, like Jennifer just tells me,

(49:54):
Oh my god, I can't believe that you worked with her.
I can't believe it. She's so good.

Speaker 10 (49:58):
Rebecca or Melcahol, Rebecca big Horn. Yeah, she's fantastic.

Speaker 2 (50:03):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, and I didn't. I didn't even know.
I uh uh, I'll tell you. I had some ideas
that I didn't do. One of them was flirting with
her while I was doing the scene with Dan, but
but I never did it. But anyway, yeah, it's got

(50:24):
an incredible cast. It's just got an incredible cast. But
it was during that time that the Kenneth fire broke out. Okay, now,
the Kenneth fire was the last big fire. But the
Kenneth fire broke out less than a mile from the
house that I'm living in right now, and the house

(50:47):
that my parents were living in, uh, because they had
been told they couldn't live in to pang A Canyon
and had been relocated, and we said, well, stay in
our house. We're in New Mexico. So when the Canne
fire broke out, it was like a mile from from

(51:08):
our house. I didn't know it at the time, but
the wind was going in the opposite in the opposite direction,
so as soon as it caught fire, it kind of
went up, you know, it went the exact opposite way.
But Jennifer was getting telephone calls from people in the neighborhood.

(51:29):
You know, the news was talking about it. Nobody knew
what was going on. And so I went from a
person who was, you know, having a pretty good time
doing the movie but but acting, and to like somebody
who was like now walking away from the set, being
on the set, but still walking to the other side.

(51:51):
I'm on the phone. I'm on the phone. I'm on
the phone. I'm on the phone. You know that just
I was never You're never going to be on a
telephone on on that movie set, for sure. And I
was on the phone, and you could, you know, anybody
who was working on the set could see that my
demeanor had changed from somebody who was just having a
really good time and doing the best job that he

(52:13):
could do to being totally concerned about something else. And
so I, uh, I was talking on the phone and
and and at one point, Aaron, this guy comes up
to me and he says to me, like he put

(52:37):
his hands on my shoulder and he said, listen, every
everything's going to be okay. We're gonna you know, we're
going to take care of you here. Everything is going
to be all right. And and it was a really
nice gesture. In the back of my head, I'm thinking,
you know, fucking what are you going to do fucking

(52:57):
blow the fire out from here? And you know, you know,
you know, but it was it was just a kind gesture.
And but I didn't know who it was. I thought
it was like craft service or you know, somebody that thought. Yeah,
I didn't know who it was. It was just I'd
seen him on the set before, but I didn't I

(53:19):
didn't really notice. I didn't notice what his job was.
I thought I thought he might have something to do
with service. So anyway, getting back to this conversation that
I had about when the movies coming out, I see
Adam talking to this guy and it's the guy that
came up to me when I was so upset and
on the telephone to Jennifer's parents and and and asking

(53:43):
about the fire and doing all this sort of stuff.
And I walked up to him right in front of Adam,
and I put my hands on his shoulders and and
I said, excuse me. I I just wanted to tell
you that that was like so nice of you. You know,

(54:03):
when I was upset the day before yesterday, they you
said everything was going to be okay, And I just
wanted to tell you how how kind that was and
how much that meant to me. And by the way, like,
what is your position because I've seen you around, but

(54:26):
what is your position on the movie? And he goes, Oh,
my name is Aaron. I'm producing the movie. I'm like, oh, oh,
you're the producer, you know. So anyway, and I was
talking anyway, we ended up getting into a conversation about

(54:49):
about when a movie gets released, and you know, Adam
was saying, yeah, I want out Halloween and and I
started to talk to Aaron because I know a company, Uh,
I'm trying to think of the name of it now,
Rick Lynch's company BLC. I think it's called BLC. Uh.

(55:12):
You know, they basically do advertising, they do posters, they
do trailers BLT b l T. And Rick Lynch is
an old friend of mine, but really really a good
friend of my younger brothers and grew up in Havasu
with my younger brother. But b LT was one of
the biggest poster houses, one of the biggest poster house

(55:36):
in the in the city, and he worked with I
wanted him to come on the podcast. He's done, and
he's with Spielberg. He's worked with Jim Cameron many times.
He's worked with Scorsese. He's worked, you know, like trying
to sell the movie. And when Aaron was telling me
in front of Adam, you know, he was saying, you
know that Adam's really good, really good at making movies,

(56:00):
and uh, the art of selling movies has got nothing
to do with the art of making movies. It's just
a completely different So, you know, Adam's opinion about when
he wanted his movie to come out, I'm sure as valid,
but not maybe as valid as people who are paid to,

(56:24):
you know, size up the competition.

Speaker 3 (56:27):
And I mean there's a bunch of analytics that must
go into it, and it's probably like down to a
science about selling a movie, when to sell it, how
to sell it, the look of it, that whole thing that's.

Speaker 2 (56:37):
Like just well, Rick Rick Lynch tells the story and
Rick Rick is, uh, you know, he's working for b
LT and this big company and they were it was
either must have been Titanic, uh, probably the Titanic and
uh so they're working for Jim, they're working for Livestorm,

(56:58):
they're working for Jim's company and John land Down and uh,
you know they're advertising it and they not only make posters,
but they do trailers, and so they uh put a
you know, a trailer together to help sell the movie.
I think it was Titanic, might not have been. It

(57:19):
could have been true lies, but you know, just to
sell the movie. And they put a trailer together, and
Jim saw the trailer and Jim was like, fuck that,
I can do better than that. Man, I'll let me
do my own trailer, which is just like typical. Jim
Cameron is like like, let me do it. I can

(57:39):
do you know, let me do it. So Jim cut
his own trailer, okay, and then uh BLT said Okay, well,
let's let's take these two trailers and let's go out
and test them. So they go out and they test

(58:01):
them in front of audiences, and the one that got
the most favorable response was BLTs and that's the one
that they ended up going with, not the one that
Jim Cameron cut together. So, you know, some people are
good at making movies. Some people are good at selling movies.
Some people are good at writing movies. Some people are

(58:23):
good at talking talking about movies.

Speaker 4 (58:28):
So as a producer, I think that's one of the
things that Don Simpson sort of excelled at. He was
really good at putting movies together, story, the creative elements,
et cetera. But he could sell the hell out of
a movie. He sold Saturday Night Fever, he sold Flashdance,
he sold Beverly Hills Cop. He was really very much
involved in the in the strategizing to market those movies.

Speaker 2 (58:54):
Yeah. Well, you know, and we've talked about the fact
that like a lot of times, there are movies, uh
that are really good movies and for whatever reason, they
just don't that they don't catch.

Speaker 4 (59:10):
Connect with audiences. They don't they don't find the.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
Well, they don't find their audiences. They don't find their audiences.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (59:17):
Uh, what's the movie where guys bouncing the basketball off
his kid's head.

Speaker 4 (59:27):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (59:28):
Yeah, the great with what's I I always forget his name,
the Great Robert Devall. That movie. Uh, they couldn't sell it.
They couldn't sell it. They couldn't sell it. They couldn't
sell it. Nobody'd watch it, nobody'd watch it. And then
I think Ciskel or Ebert, one of those two sold
on an airplane, wrote a good article about it. And

(59:48):
then I think Deavall ended up getting an Academy Award
nomination for it. But it's a pretty good movie. It's
a pretty good movie.

Speaker 4 (59:55):
Would you up for that?

Speaker 2 (59:56):
I did?

Speaker 4 (59:58):
We had the screenplay on our coffee.

Speaker 2 (01:00:00):
Yeah, no, I was, and it was good for sure. Yeah, no,
I was up for it. And I auditioned for it
a couple of times. And I was very disappointed. It's
got a female in it too. He's a very famous actress.
And uh uh it was a great role, a great
role of a young kid. And uh but yes, I

(01:00:23):
was up for it, and uh that was one. For
whatever reason I was, I can remember being disappointed about
that one. That one. I was disappointed about Cyrus, the
virus we talked about last week. I was disappointed, really
disappointed there for a day or two. And then I've
always talked about American me that.

Speaker 10 (01:00:44):
Yeah, probably you didn't get tell.

Speaker 2 (01:00:48):
Well as it turned out, you know, everybody got like
shot up and killed around it. And that's you know.

Speaker 4 (01:00:55):
It was Gwyneth Paltrow's mother who played Robert Gibald's wife
in Great Fantine.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Gwyneth Paltrow right, exactly.

Speaker 4 (01:01:02):
Her mother, her mother blythe Danner.

Speaker 2 (01:01:04):
Oh Blake Danner, but still blthe Danner. Yeah, Blake, but
Blathe Danner. Forget who her daughter.

Speaker 4 (01:01:11):
Is she was it's Gwyneth Well yeah whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:01:14):
Yeah, Blithe Danner was like a big movie. I saw
Blathe Danner.

Speaker 4 (01:01:20):
She was in a number of really good movies.

Speaker 2 (01:01:22):
I know, I know, I saw when I was a kid.
I was in Chicago and my aunt took me to
see a play and it was a good sized theater
and it was not Uh. It was street car named

(01:01:43):
Desire and she played.

Speaker 4 (01:01:48):
Blanch.

Speaker 2 (01:01:49):
She played Blanche.

Speaker 4 (01:01:50):
Oh, I bet she could have just nailed the crack.

Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
Yeah, And I was just a kid, I was like
twelve years old. But I've always remembered her and blythe
dan Her, and always remembered that name from seeing her
when I was a kid, because I saw her live
in Chicago playing uh that character.

Speaker 4 (01:02:12):
She's a very delightful Jeff Bridges movie called Parts of
the West. Yeah, do you remember that? No came out
in the seventies, I mean before you and I both
got Jeff Bridges never make any bad It was Trump?

Speaker 2 (01:02:26):
How about Tron?

Speaker 4 (01:02:28):
A bad Jeff Bridges movie is worth watching. Yeah, I'm
hard pressed to think of any off hand.

Speaker 2 (01:02:37):
Yeah, what's the one he made with Clint Eastwood that
was like.

Speaker 8 (01:02:40):
A Thunderbolt and Light Floats under Michael Michael Chimino movie
before he made Deer Hunter, right.

Speaker 2 (01:02:48):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was. He was so good
in that, and he was He's just been so good
and so many things. What's the one where he plays
the spaceman kind of like uh, twitchy starman Starman. Yeah.
Karen Nan Jalen or Karen is it Karen Allen?

Speaker 4 (01:03:07):
Karen Allen? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:03:08):
Who is that?

Speaker 4 (01:03:09):
She was in Raiders?

Speaker 2 (01:03:10):
She's she's is that Nancy Allen?

Speaker 8 (01:03:13):
That's Karen Allen's a different actress. Okay, she's the love
interest in Raiders of the Lost.

Speaker 2 (01:03:18):
Ar Okay, okay, yeah, so shows you what I know
if I'm not in it, I don't really know that
much about it. You know.

Speaker 10 (01:03:29):
Have you seen Hell or High Water?

Speaker 2 (01:03:32):
No? Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:33):
Jeff Bridges is fan. It's a newer movie came out
in twenty sixteen. It's fantastic and he's really really good
in it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Really yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:40):
It's about two brothers who start Robin Banks so their
house doesn't go into like foreclosure. And it's stars Chris Pine,
Jeff Bridges, Ben Foster.

Speaker 10 (01:03:51):
It's Taylor Sheridan movie.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
Oh really yeah, it's was directing back.

Speaker 3 (01:03:57):
You know, that movie was directed by David mackenzie, but
it was I think it was written.

Speaker 10 (01:04:01):
By Taylor Sheridan.

Speaker 3 (01:04:02):
What year was that, twenty sixteen and it was, yeah,
written by Taylor Shardan, directed by David mackenzie. But it's
one of those movies that like, it's before Taylor Sheridan
got into doing all TV shows. Yeah, and it's it's
it's it's amazing.

Speaker 10 (01:04:18):
It's really really good. Wow, you gotta watch it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, I you know, Jeff Bridges
is I think, you know, just he's just so fun
to watch. What did he make a movie Jim called
American Heart? Was that the one that he went to the Academy?

Speaker 4 (01:04:40):
That's if that's the one with Furlong?

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
O Oh, that's the one with Furlong. Okay, yeah, okay,
but that was a very very good movie. But what's
the one he did where he played like like kind
of the towns van sand like singer songwriter or who
was going from uh crazy heart crazy Heart? Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,

(01:05:07):
so good, absolutely so good.

Speaker 4 (01:05:10):
In that.

Speaker 2 (01:05:13):
Anyway, I uh uh. I wanted to talk about the
other credit that I have on the as a director
and Uh. That movie is called The Victim, and uh,

(01:05:34):
the Victim. I had a if you look at the castle,
I'll tell you the name of the guy who came
to me. And he said, uh, listen, Michael. I've forgotten
how we got connected, but he came. He said, I
got two hundred thousand dollars and I want to make
a movie about Bert Lancaster. And I said to him,

(01:05:59):
you know, you two hundred thousand dollars and period piece,
you know, because he looked like Burt Lancaster and he'd
be about third build or fourth building it.

Speaker 10 (01:06:12):
You know, you know I'm seeing Ryan Honey.

Speaker 2 (01:06:14):
Ryan. Yeah, it was Ryan Honey and uh. And and
I said you can't, you can't make that movie. I said,
but you know, we could do something else. And so
I decided. And he said, okay, well if I if
I have a part in it. So I said to him, okay, well,

(01:06:35):
maybe maybe I can write something. And the way the
financing was set up was that there was like a
on your market said go you know, and like all
of a sudden, like I had like to start like

(01:06:56):
two days later, and the money was good for like
a certain amount of time, and then it wasn't good anymore.
I mean, I don't understand financing, and I don't remember why.
We didn't have any pre production. Let's put it that way.
We didn't have any pre production. And so I started
writing the script and well we I mean we had

(01:07:22):
about a month with the money. It was about a month.
But I had I wrote that script in twelve days, okay,
And I shot that script in twelve days. And I
shot that script with one camera, and I, you know,

(01:07:51):
started making that movie. And because I did not have
that movie written, the very first seen that I did
in that movie, The Victim, uh was First of all,
I got Jennifer involved in it and to play my

(01:08:11):
love interest because we were together at the time and
still are. And she had a friend who daniel Harris,
and Danielle agreed to be in it. And Danielle is
a kind of a movie star in her own right

(01:08:33):
in that like horror genre. She's got a lot of credits.
Very cute, very beautiful, sexy young thing. And they played
a couple of girls who some cops get a hold
of and do bad things too. And they come they
come to me and and and I try to protect them.

(01:08:56):
That's kind of like the premise of the movie, but
I I did not have and we shot it all
on one location, totally, all on one location, at one location,
you know, a cabin in the woods, which is where
I was, my character was, and we the very first

(01:09:27):
day of shooting, and this one we did have a crew.
We had makeup, we had hair, we had a wardrobe,
we had a kind of a cinematographer. We had. It
wasn't like a big it was small. It was the
whole thing was made for two hundred thousand dollars and
I took fifty of it to star in it and

(01:09:50):
to direct it, and so that left one hundred and
fifty thousand dollars. I know. We paid Danielle about twelve
and we paid Jennifer about twelve. So you know, it
was a low budget movie, and that's why we shot
it in twelve days. But I had to write it
in twelve days and then we had to go immediately

(01:10:12):
into shooting, and we only had twelve days of shooting.
And so the very first thing that we shot in
the movie was Jennifer and Ice love scene, which I
had in the script. You know, it was it was
I had been working with Robert Rodriguez and Robert Rode

(01:10:34):
they always talk about grindhouse movies, exploitation movies, sex fighting, drugs,
you know, dirty cops, like you know, you just some
alcohol in the two alcohol exactly. That's just that was
just grindhouse. And this was my attempt at because Robert
had a strong effect on me. Robert what's the name

(01:10:59):
of Robert's book, Jim something to do with James. Robert
Rodriguez has got a book about I just go ahead
and do it, just like, go make it.

Speaker 10 (01:11:11):
Rebel without a Crew.

Speaker 2 (01:11:12):
Yeah, Rebel without a Crew. That's the name of his
book and which I read, and Robert was always I
was always like, well what about this, Robert, what about that?
Robert was go do it, you know, quit talking to
me about it and just go make it. Go you know,
go do it, Go do it, Go do it. So
this was a chance for me to do what I
thought was a like a sex exploitation movie with violence

(01:11:37):
and you know, like the stuff that Roger Corman used
to make, and and so on the very first day
of shooting, I didn't have, uh, you know, exactly what
he needed to shoot, but I knew that there was
going to be a love scene in it. So the
very very first day of shoot, uh, we shot the

(01:12:03):
love scene, which is a pretty remarkable love scene. I mean,
Jennifer and I were together. But before he died, who
who owned Playboy? What's son? Yeah? Hefner used to have
something called sex in the Cinema And that was towards

(01:12:24):
the end of the Playboy.

Speaker 4 (01:12:26):
In November, the November issue.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
Okay, well, Jim, Jim seems to have that information.

Speaker 4 (01:12:32):
I had the collection of the member, I had that
whole drawer full. That's a whole nother story.

Speaker 2 (01:12:38):
I'm not sure we want to hear that story exactly.
But uh, but in that Sex in the Cinema, you know,
he would point out like three or two or three
or maybe four movies that had somehow had sex involved
in them, and our scene was impressive enough that he

(01:13:01):
put our scene in his uh, in his magazine for
that one year. It wasn't every month. It was once
a year.

Speaker 4 (01:13:13):
Correct, once a year.

Speaker 2 (01:13:14):
Yeah, it was once a year. Yeah, it was once a.

Speaker 8 (01:13:16):
Year, like because it was supposed to be a wrap
up of the year in cinema, Sex in the Cinema,
and he would cover more than uh uh, you know,
more than than just a few movies, like you know,
the shots from famous movies, really well known movies if
they've been you know, touch of nudities.

Speaker 4 (01:13:35):
Yeah, so yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:13:38):
And and he mentioned the victim, which you know, was
kind of proud, just but my point about making the
victim was that when I, uh, the very very first
scene we shot was the one that that that he
saw and that he wrote about in his magazine. But uh,

(01:14:00):
you know, I I knew I was going to have
to be nude, and you know, Jennifer was going to
have to be nude, and that's always a little a
little touchy, little like whatever. But what I did was
and we didn't have trailers. We just sort of had,

(01:14:20):
you know, places that we would would hang out. And
I think mine was in the house that we that
we shot, and I had a little back room that
I would but I was never in it. I was
like always working on that. Always busy, busy, busy, busy.
But I can remember, I can remember the very first
day of shooting and we shot what they called day

(01:14:43):
for night, and day for night is a gimmick that
filmmakers used to use. I'm not sure if they use
it very much anymore, you'd see.

Speaker 4 (01:15:00):
They don't really need to.

Speaker 2 (01:15:01):
Yeah, they used to use it in Westerns and and
things like that back in the day. But basically, you're
shooting during the day. You shoot the entire movie during
the day, and then they this is how this is
how knowledgeable I am about film. Then they turned some
dials on the camera.

Speaker 4 (01:15:23):
That's about all it is.

Speaker 2 (01:15:24):
Yeah, it turns some dials on the camera and they
make it look like night.

Speaker 4 (01:15:30):
And you can really tell in some westerns too.

Speaker 8 (01:15:33):
Well, you can really tell in The Victory, well, when
it's night you can see a mountain, you know, miles away.

Speaker 2 (01:15:39):
Yeah, well you know in The Victim too. You know,
while we were shooting it, we got a shot of
the full moon. So we shot that and we I
think we mentioned three or four times out how full
the moon was. Not that many times. There was a

(01:15:59):
shot of the full moon. And it was.

Speaker 4 (01:16:02):
Actually a movie by Franz Watch Trufau called Day for
Night about movie making. Yeah. Really, Jacquelinbasset is in it
Day for Night.

Speaker 2 (01:16:12):
Wow. I I didn't know that. And uh so anyway,
we shot it Day for Night. But anyway I can
remember like just like like going like, well you know
what it's they're gonna see me naked anyway. So I
just like walked out of the house said, okay, you know,

(01:16:33):
I had talked to everybody and kind of hired them
and everybody, and it was like, you know, six oh
five in the morning and everybody was there, and it's like,
what are we gonna do. I just like walked out
of the house completely naked, said all right, we're gonna
we're gonna shoot the love scene. So this is how

(01:16:54):
we're gonna do it, you know, And I was just
like everybody, so I was Yeah, I was absolutely completely nude,
and we had like little what's that?

Speaker 10 (01:17:05):
Yeah, I remember you?

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
Remember you remember me telling you about you weren't there?

Speaker 10 (01:17:09):
No, I wasn't, but I didn't know anything about the movie.

Speaker 3 (01:17:13):
But here comes the premiere or whatever that premiere you
had down in like Santa Monica or whatever, small little
theater or whatever. Yeah, you're there, Devin and Taylor, my
brothers are there. Yeah, your your brothers are there. We
all go and we all sit down. So I got
my two older brothers on one side, I got my
uncle's on the other side.

Speaker 10 (01:17:33):
We're watching the movie and.

Speaker 3 (01:17:35):
Then that happens like, oh god, seriously, like it was.

Speaker 10 (01:17:40):
It was I don't like to think about it.

Speaker 4 (01:17:42):
Scene, yeah, the love scene.

Speaker 2 (01:17:44):
He's looking at me accusingly. It would have been.

Speaker 3 (01:17:49):
Nice to get a warning, Hey there's this scene in
the movie. Maybe go to the bathroom and get some popcorns, nothing, nothing,
just walk us right into it, the whole family.

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
Yeah. Well, uh, you know I didn't. Uh. I just
never thought that, you know, like it.

Speaker 4 (01:18:06):
Was a role. You were playing a role. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I look like that.

Speaker 2 (01:18:10):
Yeah, And so so we did. We shot that movie.
Uh in I wrote it in twelve days and we
shot it in twelve days. And then when once we
got into post, the money was not you know that.
Then I was just working with an editor and music
and all that kind of stuff. And then we took

(01:18:31):
that movie out and uh uh it was like a
grindhouse movie. It was meant to be like kind of
this low budget, grungy sort of thing, and we took
it out, and uh, you know, a lot a lot
of like like the there were like horror sites, a

(01:18:51):
lot of a lot of like small sites, which now
are some some of them are much bigger. But there
would be sites that were movie sites on uh, you
know online and I can't think any of the name
of them off the top of my head, but they,

(01:19:13):
you know, they all seemed to like the movie. They
all seem to think it was kind of cool. And
and Jennifer and I were going from we were what
do they call it, Jim barnstorming. You know, we were going, yeah, yeah, yeah,
we're taking it from this theater to that theater to
this theater. Then we'd go to Texas and we'd show
it in some place in Texas, and then we'd go

(01:19:34):
to go see Robert Rodriguez and go shooting, go shout
in Austin and which is Texas too. But then you know,
we'd go to Nebraska, where I was from. We'd go
show it there, and you know, it seemed to get
you know, people seemed to understand, uh what it was

(01:19:56):
like I said, it was with my salary and jen salary.
You know, there's only about one hundred and thirty thousand
dollars left to make the movie. And at one point
Jennifer wanted Jennifer and somebody, oh, you know, and also

(01:20:16):
Anchor Bay. Anchor Bay saw it, and Anchor Bay said,
we'll put this out. So we have Anchor Bay as
a distributor, and like Anchor Bay at the time and
probably still is a you know, it was a big company.

Speaker 4 (01:20:30):
It was very substantial distributor, of course.

Speaker 2 (01:20:33):
Yeah. And you know, so they see the movie and
they're like, you know, well, we like this movie. We'll
distribute the movie for you. And we were all I
was all excited and very excited. And at one point
Jennifer wanted to take it to New York and we

(01:20:56):
had the opportunity to show it in New York City.
And I remember not just not one I was just tired,
you know. I was like, I just spent my whole
life working sixteen hour days and like and with that movie,
it was just from the moment I said yeah, okay,

(01:21:16):
I'll do that until you know, six months later, it
was just non stop the Victim and uh. And we
showed it in New York and you know, people you know,
like The Village Voice and you know New York Times.
You know, we're reviewing it, going, I guess things a

(01:21:36):
fucking piece of ship man garbage. You know, it was
kind of meant to be garbage. It wasn't really you know,
meant for Pauline Kale Jim was.

Speaker 4 (01:21:48):
Right, they got it, got a great ride up. Then
ain't it cool?

Speaker 2 (01:21:52):
Ain't a cool? Yeah, ain't a cool news? News?

Speaker 4 (01:21:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:21:57):
How'd you know that?

Speaker 4 (01:21:58):
Because I'm just reading it.

Speaker 8 (01:21:59):
Oh read it, let me says, and Alan Cerney of
Ain't It Cool News characterized the victim as quote a fun,
sleaky grindhouse film end quote, in which Bean is lauded
for both giving a good performance and getting good performances
out of his actors those Serni states that Bean's directing
effort exhibited imperfections, such as the driving montage scene he

(01:22:23):
felt was too long. He appreciated that Bean understood the
genre in which he was working.

Speaker 4 (01:22:29):
Bean has quote. Bean has a clear path to what
he's shooting for, and for much of the film's running
time he gets it. End quote, end quote. It's a
specific genre with a specific style, and working from that,
Bean gets away, gets way more right than he does wrong.

Speaker 2 (01:22:44):
Okay, all right, well yeah those are the kind of reasons.
So that's ain't a cool newst and ain'tic cool news?

Speaker 8 (01:22:51):
Is?

Speaker 2 (01:22:51):
I think bigger now than you know it was then?

Speaker 4 (01:22:54):
It was big twenty five years ago. It was even
it was one of the first real internet, Internet kind
of take.

Speaker 2 (01:23:04):
Off any cool news. They kind of got it. It
was just not meant to be, you know, anything substantial.
That's you know. That's That's all I could say. And
so anyway, I just wanted, uh for for for, not
for history, not for what do they say for Jim?

(01:23:27):
What's posterity? Thank you? Thank you coming up with all
those big words. You love you, prospect, what is it?

Speaker 4 (01:23:35):
Prosterity, prosterity?

Speaker 2 (01:23:37):
Can you smell the O?

Speaker 4 (01:23:40):
S T E R I T y?

Speaker 2 (01:23:43):
Thank you pros prosterity, for prosterity. I just wanted to
I want yeah, yeah, Jim knows that I've got certain
words that went not because I've had a stroke before.
They like, I can never remember with them never that's
not one of them. I never learned that one of
the first questions. But there are certain words in certain

(01:24:09):
places and certain canyons and stuff that I just like,
I'll try to learn it so hard and not be
able to do. But I wanted to take this episode,
and I hope I didn't bore our listeners because I
wanted people to know that those were my two experiences

(01:24:33):
directing one I take complete credit for. But I want
everybody to know to know that it was shot for
one hundred and fifty thousand dollars less my one hundred
and thirty thousand dollars less my salary, and the other
one it's not my eye had like, yeah, did I
shoot some stuff? I did, But it's a guy's name

(01:24:58):
bay Logan thought he thought it would have a better
chance of making money if my name was on it
as a director. That's what he used to tell me.
But that's that has that's that's me distancing myself from
that movie as far as I can now. You can't

(01:25:18):
do that if you're if if you don't have a reason.
But when you are are not let in the editing room,
before the editing process starts, I think that you should
be able to go, fuck it. That's not my that's
not what I that's that's not what I. And he

(01:25:38):
went out and shot. I've already been through this, but
he went out and shot a whole bunch of other
footage and through that on top and then took it
to a film festival and said, Michael being directed to this,
So anyway, before.

Speaker 3 (01:25:51):
We go, there was one story that I wanted you
to tell. I don't know how long it is, but
can you talk? And there's footage on this if you
want to go look at it on YouTube of you
when you were doing the victim and getting choked out.

Speaker 2 (01:26:03):
Yeah. Well, I uh, at one point, I'm getting a
fight in the fight with is that Ryan Ryan? Ryan Cooney?
Ryan Honey, Honey, Ryan Honey. I'm doing a fight with him.
And I knew enough martial arts and knew enough of

(01:26:25):
what I considered, uh something that was banned years and
years ago called the It was called the Los Angeles
police choke hold, and the cops used to use it
all the time to uh disable you know, people, And

(01:26:46):
so in our fight sequence, I wanted him to put
that choke hold on me and uh uh and and
and I knew how to do it, and I showed
him how to do that, and I said, you know,

(01:27:06):
put it on me, and you know, I'll fight it,
and I'll fight you, but at some point I'll probably
tap out. So I'll tap you and then let me go,
just like MMA fighters do. And you know, every everybody
knows about all that kind of stuff. So anyway, so

(01:27:30):
we get ready to shoot it, and we shoot action
they call action, and he's he's like growling and doing
all this stuff, and he's choking me, and he's choking me,
and he's choking me, and I'm like fighting him and
he's choking me, and I at one point think, okay,

(01:27:52):
I'm just about done here, and I tap him and
he let's go of me, and I'm gonna try to
do an impression of myself. He lets go of me,
and I go and you hear Jennifer in the background, Michael, Michael,

(01:28:19):
and I'm like, uh uh, you know, uh, cut, You're
somebody to say cut. Yeah, basically I was. I was fine,
you know after you know, it just about knocked me out,
and so I was in lolot land for about ten
seconds after he put that on me. But you know, again,

(01:28:44):
like in a movie like that, you don't have any
We didn't have any stuntman. We somebody got a stuntman.
The guy whose property we used, I think he used
to be a stunt man and he got credit for
being a stunt man on that movie. But we didn't
have stunts. We didn't have all the fighting sequences. We
didn't we did, We didn't have a lot of stuff.

Speaker 4 (01:29:06):
Yeah, I was just thinking, my god, where would you
abuse the stunt man.

Speaker 2 (01:29:11):
Well, there were a lot of fight fight fight sequences
in it. And okay, I'm going to tell you one
last thing about the the driving sequence, and they mentioned
in that review, and it is a long driving there
is you know, we're supposed to be in Arizona, up
in the mountains, so they're supposed to be all these

(01:29:33):
trees around or whatever. And we don't have any licenses.
We can't go shoot on the street. You can't gorilla,
you know, you can't do that, and I certainly couldn't.
And uh so we found a guy who lives up
in the Pega Canyon who had a really really long

(01:29:59):
dryveway and it was a circular driveway and it had
like trees on the outside of it. So anything that
you see which is like the car inside of the car,
like or not not inside of the car, but as

(01:30:21):
we're driving, if you've got the camera set up on
the side, you see the trees in the background as
we're driving that that's all we're doing is driving up
one side of this guy's driveway and back down the
other side of his driveway and going back up the
front side of his driveway and coming back down the

(01:30:42):
other side of his driveway and then you know, it
flipped cameras and put it on the side. So that's, uh,
that's rebel without a crew. And that was I don't
know if I'm a rebel, but I definitely didn't have
a crew, and certainly an in Bays movie, I didn't
have a crew. I had a crew in this one.

(01:31:02):
Everybody did care quite a bit about it. And and
I think and and I found out I was a
fucking maniac too. I was like, uh, remember that, remember
when we had uh uh Jamie uh oh yeah, Jamie
Kennedy and we had that director, and I was screaming
at Lily Tomlin. Yeah, that was like David Russell. Yeah,

(01:31:27):
that was I was. I was like that quite a bit.
I was screaming. But it got to a point where
people like, here goes fucking Michael again. Yeah, enough enough,
enough enough. You know, I just screamed all the time.
So it just kind of became the norm. It wasn't like, oh,
he's angry now. I was just always screaming. Were channeling

(01:31:48):
Billy Free. There's another fun I gotta tell this story
that this this this this one. So I got the movie. Uh,
I wanted to show it to Jim Cameron. So I
called Jim up and I said, I shot this little

(01:32:08):
grindhouse movie. I did it for one hundred whatever thousand dollars.
I want I want you to would you look at
it for me? And he said, yeah, sure, bring it up.
So I take it out to Malibu where he used
to live, and I I said, okay, here it is,

(01:32:29):
and I have my what is it? What would it
have been a disc or I'm trying to think probably
probably yeah, and I, uh, you know, I hand it
to him and he's got this whole theater thing set
up like in in his one of his houses. He's
got two high he had two houses up there. One
of his houses like a theater setup. So, you know,

(01:32:52):
we're talking, we have lunch or whatever, and then he
then we're gonna watch the movie. And he gives the
disc or whatever it was to that one of his
young men that were working for him. You know, yeah,
go put this on. We'll be in in a few minutes.
So we go in and the lights come down and

(01:33:12):
the movie comes up. And as soon as I saw
the movie, I was like, that's not my movie. Jim,
He's like, what do you mean I mean, like, that's
not it. That's not the way that it's supposed to
be seen. You know, it was too light or too dark.
I forgot. I think it was too light. So when
you're shooting day for night and stuff is too light,

(01:33:33):
it just doesn't It's just isn't the movie that I made.
It isn't the movie that that everybody else saw. And
he's like, okay, all right, hold on. So then so
he talks to the guy again, do this, and do that,
and do this, do that to it? All right, put
it back up again, put it back up. It comes
back up again. It's not my movie, Jim. It's not

(01:33:57):
my movie. I mean, you can watch it, but it's
not the movie I may, you know. So by this time,
Jim's can kind of frustrate it. So he goes back
there and he fucking starts messing around with the fucking thing,
comes back down, sits down next to me, goes I
roll it, you know, fucking rolls, and I'm like, that's
not my movie, Jim, that's that's that's not my movie.

(01:34:18):
And uh so, uh, Jim's Jim's frustrated, and uh at
that point, uh I uh, you know, he just couldn't
get it right on his projector. I don't know why
he couldn't get it right, but he couldn't get it
right on his projector, and so he ended up watching

(01:34:44):
it in in the screening room on my computer. That
is the movie I made Jim right there, you know,
and he watched it. He watched it on my computer.
And he also mentioned the driving sequence was in.

Speaker 4 (01:35:04):
His theater watching it on your computer screen. That's pretty funny.

Speaker 2 (01:35:08):
That's exactly what happened.

Speaker 4 (01:35:10):
That's that's a bit of gold right there. And I've
never heard that story.

Speaker 2 (01:35:13):
Yeah, yeah, all right, So we're these these podcast just
fly by. I did want that to go down on
record though, about Bays movie and uh, I didn't direct it.
And I just want to thank everybody that is uh

(01:35:36):
that is like listening to us. We have like this
nice core audience that seems to enjoy this, and we
get a lot of nice feedback. If like, uh, if
you if there's anything that you want us to talk about,
if there's anything you want us to talk more about
or less about, you know, feel free to be part

(01:36:01):
of this little community that we have.

Speaker 8 (01:36:04):
And and thankfully people keep coming up with new suggestions
and new ideas for things to talk about as well.

Speaker 2 (01:36:12):
So they do.

Speaker 3 (01:36:13):
And I've seen a comment a couple of times now
that maybe you can get into later that's asking about
you and Spider Man and James Cameron Spider Man movie.
And but yeah, comments like that, the K two. They
want to hear the K two stories. Yeah, so we
see them.

Speaker 2 (01:36:29):
You know.

Speaker 10 (01:36:30):
It's tough for us to stay on keep sometimes, but
we'll get some. We'll get some.

Speaker 2 (01:36:34):
Yeah. And so I just wanted to thank everybody that
that has been watching and listening and you know, for.

Speaker 4 (01:36:46):
Me, well truly rewarding too, Michael, for us since we
knew each other so well years ago at the beginning
of our careers. But we're able and then a long
time by where we were in touch that were able
again to uh, you know, jointly work on something for

(01:37:06):
for the first time in our lives.

Speaker 2 (01:37:08):
You know, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's a medium
I just was not that familiar with. And thank you
Kaylan because it was basically Kaylin uh and Doug Stanhope
who kind of pushed me in this direction and said,
I think you'd enjoyed it if you went out and

(01:37:29):
uh uh and did this so.

Speaker 10 (01:37:32):
Give Michael Rosenbaum a little credit in there too.

Speaker 2 (01:37:35):
Well, and that's true, Michael Rosenbaum. I did his show
and and and uh, that first one I did really
kind of blew up. I guess I didn't know anything
about it. I didn'tybody know anything about the numbers. I
didn't know anything about comments until recently. Now I wake
up every morning a comment, another good one, another good one.

Speaker 10 (01:37:56):
You know, be careful with those. I don't know all
going to be good all the time.

Speaker 2 (01:38:02):
Well, well, you know, as actors, it's it's true to
you always focus on the bad review. You get like
ten good reviews and one bad review, and like motherfucker
bad review, Like who is this? Keep it to yourself,
Jeane ciscl all right, Jim, I guess uh, we got

(01:38:27):
Kathy Baker coming up. That's very very exciting, and we.

Speaker 4 (01:38:36):
Need to we just need to settle on a time
with Ronnie said he would be happy to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:38:41):
Okay, all right, so that should be very interesting. And
uh so we're gonna get back to where maybe you
can explain what you want to do as far as
the interviews, and then.

Speaker 3 (01:38:54):
So we are going to go back to the interviews.
But it's just going to be an additional episode, so
we're still going to do or we're just hanging around
and you're telling stories and you're talking about whatever.

Speaker 10 (01:39:03):
We're just talking movies.

Speaker 3 (01:39:04):
So like the Kathy Baker interview, you're gonna get two
episodes that week instead of you know, they're not instead
of these episodes they're in addition to so it's just
more content, all.

Speaker 2 (01:39:14):
Right, Yeah, all right, Jim, thank you, And tell me how.

Speaker 1 (01:39:22):
Much you let to look at a strange pig show.
Which hand would you choose to w way? What great
should your way around?

Speaker 2 (01:39:31):
Old Bell?

Speaker 7 (01:39:33):
How would you look upon someone dirtier than you?

Speaker 10 (01:39:41):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (01:39:42):
Caring along with that shoe

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