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June 24, 2025 113 mins
Kathy Baker is an American Actress whose film credits include: The Right Stuff, Street Smart, Clean and Sober, Jacknife, Edward Scissorhands, The Cider House Rules, and Boulevard. Actors that Kathy has worked with include: Robert De Niro, Ed Harris, Morgan Freeman, Robin Williams, Michael Caine, Nicole Kidman, and many more. She’s also won 3 Emmy Awards for Outstanding Lead Actress in a Drama Series for her role in Picket Fences

YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4dHNzumLLaFOIRqm4kcaAA 
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/justfoolinabout/ 

CHAPTERS:
00:00 Intro
03:08 Starting Late in Acting
05:31 Breakthrough with 'The Right Stuff'
15:33 Working with Robert De Niro
32:18 Rehearsals and Filming Experiences
34:19 Discussing 'Street Smart' and Morgan Freeman
42:10 Acting Techniques and Research
52:01 Working with Cinematographers
55:11 Clean and Sober: A Deep Dive
01:10:48 Working with Michael Caine in Cider House Rules
01:17:10 Filming in Nova Scotia
01:18:36 Working with Nicole Kidman
01:19:14 Actors' Reputations and Experiences
01:24:36 The Making of 'Boulevard'
01:26:58 Robin Williams' Legacy
01:47:36 Personal Reflections and Gratitude
Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I have declared bar against my brain in order to
see that wons don't seem to follow me so long
as so long as I only will you with the
smart reminds the days I don't have to.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
Kathy, thank you for being here. And this is a
real pleasure for me because I've been watching you for
a long time and I think that you are one
of the best actresses of our generation without without a doubt,

(00:43):
I mean just without a doubt. And I have always
whenever I see your name, whenever I I always I
always like watch if I can. You know, it's a
lot easier to watch things now than it used to be,
you know, So I just I just wanted to thank

(01:06):
you so much for being here. You're very, very talented,
and I want to get into I'm not very good
at introductions, but I'll just let that.

Speaker 3 (01:17):
That was a good one. I like that one.

Speaker 2 (01:19):
Well, well, my audience should know that you've won like
numerous Hammies. You've won like Obi Awards, which I had
to look up and even figured I didn't even know
what the award was, so I kind of had to
figure that out. What are the foreign awards? Jim the Phone,
the Golden the Golden Golden Global Awards Acting Globe.

Speaker 3 (01:40):
I got the first ever Screen Actors Guild Award for
a female because there I don't even know when Screen
Actors Guild began giving awards. It must have been in
ninety I don't know, the mid nineties. And so so
I was. I was nominated for the very first one.
We were in some big uh like a like a

(02:02):
like a sound stage. It was pretty Yeah, it was
pretty nominated. I won that one before, remember well that
was picket Fences also.

Speaker 4 (02:14):
Yeah, right right, David Kelly.

Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah, so that's a that's a good you know, what
do you call it? You know when you play sorry, oh,
I feel embarrassed now and I was going to forget words.

Speaker 2 (02:30):
Worry happened?

Speaker 3 (02:33):
You're playing that game at the bar, and and and
and you have to know obscure things. It's a trivia geez,
that's right, that takes you on that one.

Speaker 2 (02:43):
That's why. Jim, that's right, Jim, I would that's right.
Jim's here. He finishes all my sentences. I believe me.

Speaker 3 (02:51):
I need a Jim. Okay, So that's a good trivia question.
Who won the first first Screen Actors Awards?

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Well know, so.

Speaker 3 (03:04):
I was just going to do trivia night tonight.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
One of the one of the things I the most
interesting fact about you as an actress as I saw it,

(03:29):
is you got a kind of a pretty late start.
You're not one of those people that started acting when
they were fourteen or twelve or eight eight, you know you,
I mean you have a massive, a massive amount of
work and good work and working with like incredible people
from Michael Caine to de Niro to Ed Harris to

(03:53):
like it goes.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
You know, but it's just I know, I'm so don't
even Harrison, you.

Speaker 2 (04:00):
Know, yea happen. But it seems to me that when
when it seems to me like the beginning, the beginnings
for you seemed to be like when you met Sam Shepherd,
Yeah exactly were you in New York like looking to
do theater that? No tell me about that, because didn't

(04:22):
you go over she used to be a or did
it to be a cooker? I know, I I I.

Speaker 3 (04:31):
That's okay. I'll start from the beginning. When you say
I started late, I actually did theater since I was.

Speaker 4 (04:38):
Ten, Okay.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
To me, I started when I was ten.

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (04:43):
But but but we're talking the Albuquerque Children's Theater where
I grew up.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
You grew up in Albuquera, Albuquerque.

Speaker 3 (04:50):
And then I did all the place in high school,
and then I did the place in college. But and
I always thought that I would, you know, get married
and have kids and do theater in a church basement.
You know, I thought that would that would be me.
And then I had a sad love affair and I
had to escape it and I went away to France

(05:13):
for two years. I had delayed things a little bit, right, Oh,
and then before that I was with this person who
I was who from whom I was running away. And
I got a degree in friendship Berkeley, So you know,
I had a you know, I had a weird I

(05:35):
had a different start. But then once I got to
San Francisco in nineteen eighty, I just boom. I did
ten plays in three years. I did The Right Stuff,
which was my first movie. Yes, I did three of
Sam Shepherd's plays and the last one Full for Love,
went to New York and went it just went crazy.

Speaker 2 (05:59):
So you started doing all of your work in Temperancis.
Lets go at the magic theater, Okay, okay, and uh.

Speaker 3 (06:08):
But I was thirty you're right. I was thirty. I
did not have the.

Speaker 2 (06:13):
Film experience right, right, and the right stuff was during
was the right stuff? What are your very right first credits?

Speaker 3 (06:23):
My very first film ever?

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Oh it was I got my sag car on the
right stuff. How did you get your shot? I mean,
what how come you?

Speaker 5 (06:31):
Did?

Speaker 2 (06:31):
You see?

Speaker 4 (06:32):
You? Kaufman from San Francisco or something?

Speaker 2 (06:34):
Is that how you?

Speaker 3 (06:35):
I went to a Moode cattle call.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
You did?

Speaker 3 (06:38):
I was, as I said, doing lots of theater in
San Francisco. Yeah, and we all had an agent. I'm
making quotation marks in the air.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
Yes, people are going to watch this, so that's okay.
I do the same thing too, and I always say
I'm making quotation marks.

Speaker 3 (06:54):
And I went to this air quotes. Oh dear, you
don't say quotation marks anymore.

Speaker 2 (07:00):
You can take a lot of things anymore, and.

Speaker 3 (07:07):
I'll bet you know them all. My well, you remember,
I'm so glad you do that too, because it's terrible
and you can't think of a word. Yeah, anyway, I
remember it was somebody was called every fifteen minutes, and
it was in Coppola's building. I don't know if people

(07:28):
know San Francisco but there's a beautiful building shaped like
what's it called that building?

Speaker 4 (07:34):
American?

Speaker 2 (07:35):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (07:36):
Yeah, it's like a flat iron, isn't it called the
flat iron?

Speaker 2 (07:39):
Yeah?

Speaker 3 (07:40):
And then and I could you could see on the
call sheet it was people every fifteen minutes. And oh,
who was our amazing casting director? Because he's the only
casting director whose name I actually knew. I mean, he
was sort of a famous casting director. And I went in,
I read for him, and I looked up and he
just sort of looked me and he said, I'm going

(08:01):
to put you in this movie. Really, but I thought
they said that to everybody, you know, And I didn't
when I got there. I didn't when I got the
job and I got on the on the set of
the right stuff, I didn't know. I mean I had
a trailer for somebody asked me if I wanted a coffee,
and I said, oh, oh, that's okay, you don't have

(08:22):
to wait on me. And his face just fell because
he that was his.

Speaker 2 (08:26):
Job, you know, he was probably just started off in
a trailer, not a honey wagon.

Speaker 3 (08:31):
Oh well, okay, all right, you got me.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
No, I don't trying to I'm not trying to get you.
But usually we all start in that little Yeah, no,
you're absolutely right.

Speaker 3 (08:45):
I believe it didn't even have a bathroom. It was
even worse wagon.

Speaker 2 (08:50):
It was just a.

Speaker 3 (08:52):
I mean it had four walls and a roof.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
And I was for the right stuff, or to the
right stuff, for the right stuff. Okay, where'd you shoot that?

Speaker 3 (08:59):
San Francisco? S Scott Glenn was my husband and I
had just seen helped me out everybody urban and so
I was swallowed the worm and the.

Speaker 4 (09:16):
Is my husband.

Speaker 3 (09:18):
Couldn't have been nicer, couldn't have been nicer, wonderful.

Speaker 2 (09:22):
Yeah, I actually met and I'll think of her name.
Who's the casting director for that? Oh no, no, that
was for a different role. But anyway, he got it,
Scott Glenn got it. It was for a different role, though,
So let me ask you about.

Speaker 3 (09:42):
I think I got off track. I think you asked
me something because.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
I was basically just wanting I just wanted to kind
of find out about New York.

Speaker 3 (09:50):
And well it was because of Fool for Love. So
I'm in San Francisco.

Speaker 2 (09:55):
Doing plays with Ed with Ed Harry.

Speaker 3 (09:58):
I never met, okay, but Sam would. I did three
of Sam's play so he knew me and he said
to me one day on the set of The Right Stuff,
because we were both in the Right Stuff.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
Yes, yes, of course.

Speaker 3 (10:12):
So on the set of The Right Stuff, I think
at lunch or something, he said, you know, I got
a I got a script. I'd love I'd love you
to read him. Are you kidding? And he said, yeah,
I'm just gonna And in those days, how did he
send it to me or whatever? He might have dropped
it off in my mailbox or something, and oh my gosh,
I read it. It was just And then I got

(10:34):
to the end. I have a beautiful monologue at the end,
I mean beautiful, just and it's a killer role. It's
just me and Eddie just going at it. But I
didn't know Eddie. I didn't know it Harris, but I knew.
Did I know of him?

Speaker 2 (10:48):
I've known Ed for a while. He's not a friend
of mine, but I've never called. I don't know if
he would allow me to know him Eddie. But I'm
sure you could call and anything you wanted anyway, And.

Speaker 4 (11:05):
No, no, so much of him? Did you did you
ever work? You never had any scenes together in the
Right Stuff, did you me?

Speaker 2 (11:16):
And Ed?

Speaker 3 (11:16):
No? Yeah, well, you know, I was one of the wives,
and I remember seen when Yeah, so the so the
astronauts were up on the stage and the wives were
down below, cling and looking.

Speaker 2 (11:30):
Long loving Jack Glen John Glenn.

Speaker 3 (11:33):
Uh he played John Glenn.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (11:37):
So so when I said I'd never met him before,
what am I talking about? We were in the right
stuff together, but not really. Yeah, I didn't really know him.
I didn't call him Eddie then.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
So when did you start calling him Eddie?

Speaker 3 (11:54):
Well, when we started doing Full for Love?

Speaker 2 (11:58):
Right, So how did that? How did did Sam? Just
Sam directed it? Correct? He did?

Speaker 1 (12:04):
So?

Speaker 2 (12:06):
Did he know Ed? Had they like work together?

Speaker 3 (12:11):
He had seen him in a in a production of
True West, Oh, True West? Down down here? When I
say down here, because we were up there in San
Francisco some some theater down here? Was it South Coast rep.
I'm not sure Eddie did the True West?

Speaker 2 (12:29):
Okay, okay, all right, well that's some Do you know the.

Speaker 3 (12:32):
Play at all? Because I know, I know buttoned up
Brother and the crazy Brother. Yes, and he actually played
the buttoned up brother really, but then there's a switch
at the end, the buttoned up brother becomes the crazy one.

Speaker 4 (12:46):
So yeah, Phillips Hoffman, Philip Seymour Hoffman, and John c
Riley played that that played on Broadway, and they would
switch parts, yes, yes, and one would do one role
one night or I don't think switched nights or weeks
or whatever, but they would alternate the roles because it's
basically a two man play.

Speaker 3 (13:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah, I think Josh from Grindhouse. I think Josh Rowland
might have also worked with Philip on that play. Either
he was there or he worked around that, because Josh

(13:27):
and I did a movie called Grindhouse together for Rodriguez,
and neither one of our careers was going very far
and at that moment has took off after that, but
we we used to just make fun of each other
and our careers and and things like that. So so

(13:47):
when you do a play like that, how long do
you First of all, they always talk about being out
of town and doing all your for Broadway, doing all
your rehears shows out of town, and then you like
bring it to Broadway and you work on it as
you're kind of out of town, and then you bring
it to Broadway. What's when you're doing an off Broadway show?

(14:10):
Is it the same situation?

Speaker 3 (14:12):
What what and is it No, I it wasn't it.
We We did it at the Magic Theater for I
think six weeks. Do you know that's the normal run.
It was just one of the plays in the in
the the year of in the schedule of the Magic
Theater that year, and it was pretty successful, although the

(14:36):
reviews in New York were just crazy good and the
ones in San Francisco were kind of like, oh, yeah,
this is pretty good. You know that thing of you're
never a prophet in your own land.

Speaker 2 (14:47):
Yes, yes, it's probably a.

Speaker 3 (14:48):
Miss I mean, I know it's a miss quote. But
so they were blase about Sam and they loved ed
because I've never seen him before. But anyway, the point
of what I'm saying, saying I'm babbling is we did
a run. Somebody from the Circle Rep Theater in New
York must have seen it, or Sam might have said, hey,

(15:12):
I'm bringing I want to take this to New York.
And so I don't know how it happened, but we
went to New York and then I did it for
almost a year.

Speaker 2 (15:23):
You did it for a year with with Ede, with
Eddie Eddie.

Speaker 3 (15:30):
I'm not gonna because you know, I called.

Speaker 2 (15:36):
Robert de Niro Bobby. Yes, yes, well you're not gonna You're.

Speaker 3 (15:42):
Not gonna tease me about that one. You call him
Bobby too.

Speaker 2 (15:45):
I do not call him Bobby. Robert de Niro was
somebody that was for me. A Taxi Driver was the
greatest movie I'd ever seen. And maybe to this point
it's hard to you know, when you get the god
the Godfathers and Flew, you know it's hard. But I

(16:09):
grew up and just absolutely loving him. But and I'll
just tell the story again because I've told it before,
but I'll tell you the story. So I'm in I'm
in New York and I'm doing a movie called The
Fan with Lorne Bcall and Marine Stapleton and Hector Alizondo,

(16:33):
some really good people. I was a very young man.
I was about twenty one, and I played the Fan,
and I was a man who was stalking this Broadway actress.
And I was staying at the Mayflower Hotel of course, right,
And I went to dinner one night with my my

(16:54):
girlfriend or or wife at the time, and we're having
dinner and last.

Speaker 4 (16:59):
She was your fiance if she was married. After you
got back from doing that movie, Thank.

Speaker 2 (17:03):
You, Jim that's thank you, thank you very much, my fiance.
That's right, that's so. So I'm having done with my
fiance and I look up and there's Robert den Arrow
on the other side of them. What year would this
have been, Jim, This is eighty this is the spring

(17:24):
of eighty. Okay, so what what what? What would he
have done at this point?

Speaker 4 (17:30):
God, he's probably doing something like Once upon a Time,
uh in America. But he would have already what what
would he have what would he have already done? Oh,
he would have done Raging Bull. Yeah, taxi driver, he
would have done godfather to Okay, wow, wow, yeah, okay, deer.

Speaker 2 (17:51):
Okay. So anyway, I was I was very impressed by him,
and and so I was like to my wife, my
fiance's Robert DeNiro over Therebert DeNiro. Can't believe it's Robert
de Niro. Wow, this is crazy. It's Robert de Niro,

(18:13):
and you know, having dinner. And at one point, I'm
you know, I want to look at him because he's
Robert dinner, you know, and I'm starstruck. And I look
up and he's like to you, He's back to me.

(18:43):
You didn't ruin this story. You just know him so well, Bobby,
that's Bobby. Yeah. He basically pointed at me, Yeah, come here. Yeah,
And I was like, oh my well, honey, oh my god,

(19:04):
Denary wants me to go over there. So I get
up and I'm walking over and like all the thoughts
going through my head is like Robert, like maybe there's
a part. It's like, you know, like like, oh my god,
just Robert de Niro. Hi, my name is Michael Bean.
Mister de Niro, is so nice to meet you, so fantastic.
And he says, let me ask you a question. I

(19:26):
can't do impressions. Let me ask you a question. That
girl you're sitting with, is that your sister? Yes, she did?
He did it? And I said, u uh no, no, no, no,
that's my fiancee. Yeah, and he said, oh, okay, well

(19:49):
I thank you. And I was dismissed, but still I
was very excited about the whole thing. And then she
was you. When I told her she was, she was
very excited. Well, we ended up. We ended up somehow
because she was around the mayflower a lot. I think
he had up like a sweet or something in the mayflower,

(20:11):
So we ended up being around him a little bit
and we ended up setting him up with one of
my uh fiance's friends in New York City and they
went out and that didn't go very well. But anyway,
that's that's that's well. When did you When did you?
When did you first meet de Niro?

Speaker 3 (20:33):
When I auditioned for Jack Jack, I auditioned over eight months.
I auditioned five separate times. He just could not make
up his mind.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
He being Robert Bobby.

Speaker 3 (20:51):
Robert Denaro eight months, eight months and a director.

Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, David, I got his name here, Okay, give.

Speaker 1 (21:02):
Me he.

Speaker 3 (21:05):
He had seemed full for love with me and Ed,
and he took us out for drinks after and he said,
I've got this movie I want you guys to do,
and so Bobby agreed to Ed right away. But for
my part, he auditioned every single actress in the world

(21:26):
a million times.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
Well, David Jones, what a doll, what a love?

Speaker 3 (21:36):
Well that is no longer with us, so I'm especially sorry.

Speaker 2 (21:40):
I look at another guy that you had worked with,
and he is still with us. Race in ninety two.

Speaker 3 (21:48):
Set.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
I think it was Jo's Mountain or anyway, I'll get
there forget it. So where did you shoot that jack Knife?

Speaker 3 (22:02):
Oh, jack Knife. We did shot that in Connecticut, and
uh is not the only place? Do we do Montreal too?

Speaker 2 (22:11):
No?

Speaker 3 (22:12):
No, I guess Connecticut, Connecticut?

Speaker 1 (22:15):
And and.

Speaker 2 (22:17):
So Ed was always sort of cast. He was always
going to do it, and you had to go back
for audition after audition off.

Speaker 3 (22:25):
There was finally a callback with I think five.

Speaker 2 (22:27):
Or six of us. Oh really, and yeah, well that
the director.

Speaker 3 (22:34):
Wanted me to. So that probably really helped my case.

Speaker 2 (22:38):
You remember his name, the.

Speaker 3 (22:40):
Director, Yeah, David joneson God bless.

Speaker 2 (22:47):
Well listen that.

Speaker 3 (22:49):
So that was amazing that I didn't know him. I
didn't know Bobby. I mean I didn't. We just thought
we just read it together. He didn't we didn't talk.
I mean, he was very nice, but we didn't hang out.
But then on the set he hangs out and he
plays practical jokes.

Speaker 2 (23:08):
Really yeah, really, yes he does. I've always you know,
I've always heard because I've never worked with him, I've
always heard that, you know that, And I guess we're
all pretty serious and serious about what we do. But
a little bit more. Uh, what was the Jim What

(23:30):
was the movie he did with Charles Grodon?

Speaker 3 (23:33):
Oh that was great, love that one watch.

Speaker 2 (23:37):
It's a great and I think so fun He's fantastic.

Speaker 3 (23:43):
Found his funny bone, yeah, yeah, was that the.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
First one, Jim that he found his funny bone on.

Speaker 4 (23:49):
Because well he made King of Comedy.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Well that did not.

Speaker 4 (23:54):
I wouldn't call that a funny bone.

Speaker 2 (24:01):
But somewhere along he said, you hear all these stories.
So I heard that he would always make Charles Groaden
like be handcuffed to him, like on the set. Because
this is me hearing this from somebody who heard it
from somebody else and everything.

Speaker 3 (24:18):
And I he was very casual, very just funny. He
he would pull his chair up next to mine and
we would chat and he was chatty. He was much
more chatty. And I need to joke around too, but
he was chatty in a how do I say this?

(24:42):
It was.

Speaker 4 (24:44):
He It was.

Speaker 3 (24:47):
His chatty almost was chatty like a shy person. That's
what he was. Yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah,
when he when when we sort of warmed up to together,
he he was chatty, but I think he's more shy.
He asked me to be in the next one with

(25:16):
Bert and Uma Thurman and yeah, Bill, Bill Murray Murray
and it was called It was a crazy mad dog
in r was in that asked me to be in
that movie. He called me and asked me to be
in it. Bopped it.

Speaker 2 (25:35):
I'm saying, let me ask you a question about me.
Let me let me ask you a question about that.
That relationship that you have in the movie is you
know you guys are First of all, I just want
to say that your your transformation in that movie from

(25:59):
being emotionally unavailable I would say, and frightened a little
bit of any kind of emotional connection with a man.
It seemed to me to where you ended up with

(26:21):
DeNiro's character in the movie was flawless. It was so
so beautiful, you know what I'm talking about.

Speaker 4 (26:30):
I mean, the.

Speaker 2 (26:32):
Kind of more cartoon version of it was Rocky's girlfriend,
what was her name? Adrian? Adrian went from the kind
of the glasses and the thing and.

Speaker 3 (26:42):
It ars I'm handing in my water to open the top.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
She doesn't realize I can't open them either.

Speaker 3 (26:51):
Usually I can't thank you so much. I'll take the
top that, I'll take the time thank you.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Most people just want the water.

Speaker 3 (27:07):
I'm not going to drink the whole thing. Okay, Yeah,
that transformation, that's very nice, and you know what just
occurred to me. It's kind of the transformation of our
relationship on the set, isn't it just as we got
to know?

Speaker 2 (27:25):
That's what I was wondering, whether if if he was
maybe a little bit more friendly, a little bit more chatty,
a little bit more flirty, a little bit more whatever
with you than he might have been if it was
me playing that role.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
Maybe maybe I mean, you're you're very cute. Yeah, yeah,
are you saying he was? I mean, don't we all
do that? If what you're saying is he was sort
of in character, that's why he was being chatty. Yes,

(28:10):
I'm sure, But don't we all do that as an actor?
I mean people say, oh, you know, what's the thing there?
You know, they're always in character or their method. I
don't want to get into why. I'm not too sure
about method, but I mean we we all do that.
If if if you're playing a character who hates somebody,

(28:32):
you're not gonna hang out with them. Yeah, you're just not. Yeah,
but I don't think it's lessons the fact that a
relationship was created, do you know what I mean? I
don't think it was that makes it sound fake like
I will fake being nice and interested in this person.

(28:56):
I don't think it's entire let's say entirely. It's complicated.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
Well, let me let me give you an example of
like when I did Tombstone. Yeah, we had a lot
of wonderful actors something and I, uh.

Speaker 3 (29:11):
My friend, the producer of Boulevard. I was asking him
some questions about Boulevard, just to be sure I remembered,
and I said to him, you should be on this podcast.
He said, oh, I'll just ask him tons of questions
about Tombstone if I go on.

Speaker 2 (29:27):
Anyway, Well, we there were there were the IRBs I
considered the bad guys, and there were the cowboys, which
were considered by the audience the bad guys. And that
was me, and it was Powers Booth, it was Stephen Lane,
it was John Corbett, you know. But we bonded us

(29:54):
guys bonded. Kurt and Val sort of bonded ed. Was
not ed. Sam Elliott was a little bit older than
us and kind of play into it quite as much.
But yeah, that just happens.

Speaker 4 (30:09):
And Bill Paxton, that was the fifth movie you did
with Bill, and you barely communicated with him at all
in the making of Stone, I didn't.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
We didn't communicate very much.

Speaker 4 (30:20):
I you were good friends when then, well we were good.

Speaker 2 (30:26):
Friends by then. But again he was in my mind
he was one of them, just one of them. And
I didn't have that much talk about People ask me
about Malacoma. I'm like, I don't know. I never met him,
you know, I have no idea. So but going back
to what you're saying is like Powers and I were friends.

(30:48):
I mean, Steve, we were friends. It wasn't we were
acting like friends. It wasn't like anything that was not
based in a reality. And so I've always said that
that's just sort of a ah, a natural sort of

(31:08):
deal that happened. So was that the next time that
you had worked with Ed know the right stuff? But
since the Play for Love.

Speaker 3 (31:19):
And then jack Knife?

Speaker 2 (31:20):
Yeah, yeah, well that that that wasn't you got a
beautiful You did a beautiful job in that movie. Thank you,
really really really beautiful. Because that's that was that took
some That took some doing.

Speaker 3 (31:32):
Can you imagine every day I went to work and
I was either going to work with Robert de Niro
or Ed Harris or both of them. That was the
entire movie for me.

Speaker 4 (31:42):
Had neither of them been in the play.

Speaker 3 (31:46):
Eddie lay Full for Love.

Speaker 4 (31:49):
Well no, I meant, oh.

Speaker 3 (31:54):
Yeah, it was based on a play strange No, No,
nobody had been in the play. Okay, Kyle Lani Lee.
That name came to me was the actress who played
my part in the play.

Speaker 2 (32:08):
Okay, yeah, yeah, I just I just always loved that
movie and always uh yeah, you were just very subtle
and very like, thank you, very very subtle transformation that

(32:29):
happens to you in that movie. When you do a
movie like that with those guys. Are their rehearsals Are
you guys rehearsing.

Speaker 3 (32:37):
A lot of yes. David Jones was a theater director
and he I remember we we rehearsed for a couple
of weeks. I think he even did that thing that
you do in in theater where we were in a big,
big soundstage and he they taped off, yes, you know
they put tape.

Speaker 2 (32:58):
To do that the actor. But you're talking about for
Mark's tapes for like where the room.

Speaker 3 (33:06):
Was, where the room is going to take this is, yeah,
this is the kitchen door and this is the yeah.

Speaker 2 (33:13):
Yeah, I didn't didn't let me do that gym? Was
that one? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (33:17):
That was one, and that's how we rehearsed.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Yeah you did, so you had two weeks.

Speaker 3 (33:21):
Are pretty sure might have been a week, because you know,
they can't afford much more than that.

Speaker 2 (33:28):
These days, there's like they don't rehearse. I don't think
there's no rehearsal at all, which is just go into
yeah it's a shame, you know, get your two or
three shots and yeah, well that that that was a
That was a that was uh, a marvelous, marvelous movie

(33:49):
and like a marvelous performance, Thank you.

Speaker 4 (33:55):
I thought when it came out, and I was really
watching a lot of Vietnam stuff then because I was
working on the series at HBO called Vietnam War Story,
So we were looking at it in large major I mean,
we knew we weren't going to get Robert de Niro
ed Harris on our show, but we were looking at
it for the writer, principally for Stephen Metcalt.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
Oh.

Speaker 4 (34:19):
Yeah, so but I remember, you know, watching the movie,
going to see the movie when it came out, so
I thought, you know, in its initial release, and was
really really quite taken by it.

Speaker 2 (34:29):
I've got a lot of movies, a lot of great
movies to get through. Can we talk a little bit
about Street Time? Yeah, well called straight Time again street
Straight Street.

Speaker 4 (34:43):
Called it Streets of New York because that was the
title of the script that Freeman wrote. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
And it got set up initially as as Streets of
New York.

Speaker 3 (34:56):
O all these things.

Speaker 4 (35:01):
Well, I said, I was around when the thing got
off the ground, when when Freeman was telling us about
was when Freeman was pitching the story to it.

Speaker 2 (35:10):
Jim, when you you've basically quoted to me Pauline Kal's
talking about the movie and her talking about Morgan Freeman,
didn't you she was?

Speaker 4 (35:23):
She gave the movie a pretty good review.

Speaker 3 (35:25):
I remember the first sentence of that review.

Speaker 2 (35:27):
Okay, do you Jim, Well, I.

Speaker 4 (35:31):
Think what Michael's asking me is she I think she
poses the question in the review, is Morgan Freeman America's
greatest actor?

Speaker 3 (35:39):
That was the first sentence of the review. Exactly?

Speaker 2 (35:41):
Is that right? Wasn't it Morgan?

Speaker 5 (35:46):
Was?

Speaker 2 (35:47):
Had he done? Was was he Morgan Freeman?

Speaker 3 (35:52):
In fact? Go ahead, I have made up in my
own mind that my claim to fame is I'm in
movies with people who are not famous yet. And then
they go boom, they go crazy. Oh, I could list

(36:13):
some for you. Edward scissor Hands. It was Johnny Depp.
Was not Johnny Depp. Oh gosh, I'm gonna I'm gonna
forget how that's true. I'm gonna I'm gonna think about it.
Why why you'd say what you're trying to say.

Speaker 2 (36:27):
Jim, Uh, Well, I can just tell you that, Uh, Michael,
I was gonna say, I was Michael Keaton wasn't exactly
Michael Key wasn't.

Speaker 3 (36:42):
It was not that Michael great actor. He had done
the wonderful funny stuff. Not that that isn't hard to do.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
By the way, when you when you were doing a
Street Smart you shout that in Montreal? Do you speak
French by the way, Yes, Yeah, that's right.

Speaker 3 (36:58):
Everyone's laughing.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
No I I I don't. I laughed just because I
used to m hmm. That's all I knew was that
the words town used to.

Speaker 3 (37:14):
Didn't You don't know that song? You know that song?

Speaker 2 (37:16):
I know that song? Yeah?

Speaker 4 (37:18):
What's his name?

Speaker 2 (37:19):
You know? Did you?

Speaker 3 (37:24):
Montreal and New York? Montreal and New York. I remember
being on the plane with Morgan going back and forth Montreal,
New York.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Why would they they? I mean usually Montreal doubles as
New York. Do you have any idea of why they went?

Speaker 3 (37:36):
Why they were Some of it was in New York.

Speaker 4 (37:39):
Well, it was cheaper to shoot up there, it was, But.

Speaker 3 (37:42):
Why did we go back to New York? Sometimes I
don't know, and maybe they needed real.

Speaker 4 (37:48):
Well they did, Yeah, they did about I think they
shot any carriers in New York. And then they found
a neighborhood in Toronto that sort of looks like New York.
We were in Montreal, Montreal and Montreal in Canada that
sort of looked like New York.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
When you when you met Morgan, did you did you
do any rehearsals for that movie?

Speaker 3 (38:11):
Oh Morgan? Oh my god, he was so funny. I
decided with well, first of all, I decided with with Bobby,
with Robert de Niro, that it wouldn't do me any
good to be in awe of somebody the whole time
I'm working with them. You have to break it down too,

(38:33):
this is a person, they're an excellent actor, and we're
going to work together, right. You can't just go, oh
my god, you know it's Morgan. Well, of course we
didn't know who Morgan fre was, but he's scary from
the first time you meet him. He's very tall, and
he's just got that voice, and he's and he isn't
you know, hey, how you doing.

Speaker 4 (38:53):
He's serious scary character in that movie.

Speaker 3 (38:57):
Yes, it was right, he was, but you know, and
and then he was my pimp, so I had to
be subserving it to him. But excuse me on having
a drink. So we had this rehearsal and Christopher Reeve
was sitting on one side of the table and Morgan
was sitting on the other side of the table. And
I swear to you, at one point, Morgan leapt over

(39:23):
the table at Christopher.

Speaker 2 (39:26):
Reeve just while you were shooting something.

Speaker 3 (39:29):
Now this was a rehearsal, you know how you're sitting
around a table at some point in the script when
things get heavy between the two of them, he leapt
over the table. And we talked about it later because
I did another movie with him, and he said, I
just wanted him to know. I just wanted him to
know what he was going to be dealing with as

(39:51):
an actor, you know, not as a mean person.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
Well you you know, you when you did that movie
and you're playing a part and you're playing one of
his girls and you know, and subservient and all that
sort of stuff. But are you looking at him at
that point and thinking what, Pauline Cale, Oh no, no, no,

(40:17):
of course we know. No.

Speaker 3 (40:19):
But I am trying to give back as much as
I'm getting, you know that as an actor, I'm trying
to be as present for him and just give him
everything I can give, yes, so that he will give
it back. Yes, and he will be able to give
it back, you know.

Speaker 2 (40:37):
But there was no Oh, Mike, you like working with
somebody and you go like well, and to a certain extent,
when I worked with Valcomra, everybody knew Val was turning
in a really nice performance in Tombstone. Everybody knew that. Yeah, uh,
and did I'm just asking if you know, if you

(40:57):
looked at if you were like acting with somebody that
you thought like, wow, this.

Speaker 6 (41:04):
Guy, this guy definite, Oh, definitely like who is this? Okay, okay,
this is this is serious.

Speaker 3 (41:14):
We have to step up here. Yeah, we're not. We're
not playing around right right right. I fact, I remember
asking him acting advice for Clean and Sober, because I
said to him, I feel like I'm still playing punchy,

(41:34):
because clean and Sober must have come pretty quickly after
jo okay after I mean what am I saying? Clean
and sober must have come quickly after Street Smart? And
and he's and he said, Kathy, you you were always
you in the parts that you play. That is just

(41:56):
a given you. It is you, and then you and
then you work from that to find the character. And
that just helped me enormously because yeah, it was me,
but then I was a drug addict instead of a hooker.

Speaker 2 (42:14):
Okay, for instance, when you did that, uh uh, street Smart?
I keep wanting to call the straight time street Smart?
Was there ever any idea, any thought of God, go
down and hang out with these hookers? And you know, like,
do you ever do you ever read? Do you do
that kind of research?

Speaker 3 (42:37):
Kind of big, big researcher. But I did drive around
and look at hookers, Yes I did.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Yeah, And do you like, where do you where? Do
where do you think that your talent comes from? This
is almost a possible question to ask. But your your
talent is is so obvious and and in everything that

(43:06):
I see you, and you're just like whoever that was?
It said? Maybe it was Morgan Freeman who said, You're
always you, but then you take it in this direction,
and you take it in that direction, and maybe that's
all you need to do. You know, when I was working,
you know, if I was playing a cop and I
had the opportunity to hang out with cops, I would

(43:27):
go hang out with cops. If I was in the
playing a military guy and have the opportunity to go
out and play with military guys, you never did any
any anything like that.

Speaker 3 (43:37):
Well, Clean and Sober. We went to an AA meeting.
We all did all the main actors. But personally, I
try to do as if, you know, did you do
as if? Actually Robert de Niro talk to me about
as if? It just helps you normally explain as if

(44:07):
is what can I find in my own life that
that is the same as this character I When I
was doing Clean and Sober, I was I was an addict,
a coke act addict. So I said to my husband,

(44:28):
because I said, do you think I should do some coke?
Because I'd never done coke? And he he said, Kathy,
you just played a hooker, and so what I did.

(44:50):
Then maybe you all will think this is silly, But
I had to find an addiction that I I I'm
not a hugely addictive for addict, is that the way
you say it. I mean, I've smoked in movies, but
I don't ever get addicted. I'm sort of addicted to food,
I have to say. But the main thing I found

(45:12):
was addicted to love, to to love someone and to
be loved. And if you don't have that, what does
that feel like? And what does it feel like if
you need it so badly? So that's what I did
for for addiction, and then for a hooker. I mean,

(45:34):
really all the all it is is a is someone
who needs a job, someone who's desperate and who needs
a job and is willing to sell whatever whatever they have.
It's not sex for hookers, so I know.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
Well, one of the one of the things that's interesting
about Boulevard is when Robin Williams wants to get so
close to that kid, he wants to hug him, he
wants to, he doesn't. It's not it's not about sex

(46:10):
with Robin Williams. And from what I hear about hookers.

Speaker 3 (46:20):
Your son is in the room.

Speaker 2 (46:25):
From what I've read, yes, they're the last thing they
want to do is get emotionally attached. I mean this is, yeah,
get emotionally attached in any way. They don't want to
tell you their name, they don't want to tell you
how they got started, they don't want to tell you
who they're you know.

Speaker 3 (46:45):
Yeah, right, Well, think of the place that you have
to go to to just go in a room someone
you don't know, to take off your clothes and just
do the thing whatever they want you to do, and
then take the money and leave. I mean, where do
you have to be in yourself to get to that place?

Speaker 2 (47:03):
That's well, I you know, I have never you know,
I grew up in a kind of a nice, middle
middle class family. I came over to LA and I
never felt I mean I was a very pretty young

(47:25):
thing when I was nineteen over and I had like
there was a lot of gay men in pretty important
positions that that you know, but I that to me,
I kind of knew early on that that was a

(47:46):
I just like to kind of sell out that way,
to kind of get started that way, to kind of
do that that would always always be in the back
of your mind that this is this is kind of
how I got there, you know, And I think that
that would have always been for me like a tragedy

(48:10):
to go through life.

Speaker 4 (48:12):
It would have been very limiting, well in the end,
to go.

Speaker 2 (48:17):
Through something and to become very And I'm sure that
there are a lot of people that have done things
that are tremendously successful now and and and that's gotta
that's gotta eat at them a little bit.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
But I was just thinking also about hookers. By the
time I played Punchy in Street Smart, I had a
little boy and he was only like a year and
a half, okay, maybe maybe two. And when you think
about you would do anything for your child, right anything.
That's so that's the place I got to for for

(48:54):
being a hooker. Okay, what if I had nothing and
I had to the only thing I could do was
sell me for my child. I have to say that
I would have done it. Yeah, well, and I think
I'm pretty sure.

Speaker 2 (49:07):
Yeah, and and and men, I mean, when you're right,
and that's a good that's a good example of it. Okay,
that's as if that's what you were talking to about
Denio was talking about. And that's a very good way
to explain an actor way of justifying a character and

(49:35):
feeling not only good, but I think confidence is important
as an actor and feeling with your choices and if
you feel confident, and you just gave me a perfect
example of an actress who you know, how do I
get there? Well, if I was under these circumstances, that's

(49:57):
that's what I'd be doing. And so that's that was
really good. That's like for all the people out there
that I want to be actors. I feel sorry for
all the people that want to be actors and stuff.
Now with all the public, well, with all the content
that is out there, and was there no movie stars anymore?
And I've written and I wanted to talk to you, Jim.

(50:20):
We'll talk about this later. But AI, I think Disney
just sued somebody. AI is just really really getting out
of control. I have a friend that uh uh was
showrunner on The Walking Dead and Greg Nicotaro and Greg

(50:41):
last time I saw him, when I had done The
Walking Dead, he was sending his son off to n
YU to be a cinematographer. That's what he wanted to do.
He want to be a cinematographer. Well, as he was
at NYU and it was not a really good experience
because COVID was going on everything. He realized that the
position of cinematographer is going to be taken over by AI.

(51:04):
That is just like there will be no cinematographers on
this anymore. And so his reasoning for going to school.
He came back saying, Dad, there's there's no uh and
and I just talked to Greg the other day about it,
and you know, he was just and that's just scary

(51:27):
a little.

Speaker 3 (51:27):
As an actor, I count on the cinematographer so much.
I talk to them. I mean, they're almost like my
second director, depending on the personality. They haven't always been
well I'm willing.

Speaker 2 (51:40):
But I've always had like a really good connection with
cinematographers too. I always find them to be very interesting people.
Remember they used to walk around with their life. Yeah,
you don't see that anymore, anybody with.

Speaker 3 (51:57):
That thing around their neck.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
Yeah. But I worked I worked with a couple of
Academy Award winning cinematographers, and I always found them to
be kind of an interesting breed. And I always got
along very well. When I was a kid, I was
I was doing a television series for a company. You're
not even going to know this because I was like working. Wait,

(52:24):
you know, I got I got started early, ten years
earlier than you. I was working for aw called The Runaways.
It's called the run It was for Quinn Martin, a
company called Quinn Martin, and I was doing a series
and it was one day cinematographers said to me, Michael,
you take two steps to the left, and I was

(52:47):
in my James Dean mode, you know, like I feel better,
I like it better here. I feel I feel much
more comfortable here. Oh, I said a lot of success
from again, well yeah, I feel all right, Michael. That's

(53:08):
what you want to do. That's what you want to do.
So and we were shooting and I forget all about it,
and then, of course as a kid and even now
still I want to watch what I've done. So when
the show came out, I watched the show and that
spot there was like a poll that just like went
right up right from the back of my shoulders right

(53:29):
up over my head and just it looked absolutely ludicrous,
you know. And from that moment on, I went like,
I'm going to photographer and anything that they say, uh yeah.

Speaker 3 (53:45):
I worked with Caleb de Chanel on the Right stuff,
and I was I thought you were going to tell
a story like this, which was as I told you, guys,
I'd only just done theater, so here's here is the
right stuff. And at one point he told me to
move a little bit to my right, just move a
little to your right. So I moved the way you
went on stage. I mean I moved a foot or two.

(54:08):
But when a cinematographer says a little bit and he
goes stage actors.

Speaker 2 (54:18):
I've never been able to figure out what's the stage
right is? If you're on stage, it's stage right and
stage left. Okay, all that Shakespeare stuff too, I could
never understand any of that. That's why that's why I'm
moved hard to you do. I'm so happy to hear

(54:40):
another like a wonderful actress, as as yourself. Maybe he
doesn't understand everything he's saying all the time, of course
not wow. And what happens to me is now you
can see like they'll do Shakespeare and then they'll be
like if an American said it, he would saying it

(55:00):
like this. And then I see what Shakespeare's writing, and
then I'm like, oh my god, oh no, wonder why
it's so brilliant, you know, because I can understand what
he's saying. So but I've never I've always been good
at acting, Kathy. Nothing else. That's just like when it
comes to school, when it comes to I think I

(55:22):
have that ad h D thing, you know, I don't. Well,
let's talk about Clean and Sober a little bit because that,
uh that movie and one of the things. And Jim,
you'll appreciate this because we love uhm em Att Walsh. Yeah, yeah,
we just passed away. He was he was in time. Yeah,

(55:46):
he was the best.

Speaker 3 (55:48):
I wasn't he good in that? I just just thinking
about that.

Speaker 2 (55:52):
Here's the thing about it, Kathy, is that I thought,
like every time I've seen UHM, wallsh he's always spent
kind of that straight time, bigger than life kind of
that loud, nasty, obnoxious sort of like thing. And in

(56:14):
Clean and Sober he's like the opposite.

Speaker 1 (56:17):
You know.

Speaker 2 (56:18):
I went back to watch Clean and Sober because I
hadn't seen it, and I went back to watch it.
First of all, I forgot that he was even in it,
or maybe I didn't know who even who he was
at the time when I did see it. But he
really plays it. I mean, he's just straight. He's just
like more like who that person really is.

Speaker 3 (56:36):
And here's Michael just you know, climbing the walls and
his energy and plus who he's playing, and here's Emmett
just straight, just just quiet and okay, I hear you
need a sponsor. Yeah, well come on, we're having a
cup of coffee. He didn't do any more than that. Yeah,

(56:57):
it was wonderful how they played off each other.

Speaker 4 (57:02):
I worked with whenever. Whenever I hear mm Walfs, I
always think of Blood Simple. Yeah, and his death scene
and Blood Simple. That's something memorable. We you know, go ahead, Jim,
do you know the movie? You remember the movie movie?

Speaker 2 (57:26):
Do you know what?

Speaker 3 (57:26):
Remember?

Speaker 2 (57:27):
Here's the thing about Blood Simple, And this is the
same thing with like a number of movies. Is like
I'm a real like give me a beginning of middle
and something I can understand really easily. I'm not that smart,
So if you're like trying to try, you know, like
I never understood it, Jim, I could never. You know,
like I know that Jim Jackson produced it. You know

(57:50):
I've been around Jim jacks. I I just get lost
when I watched that movie, and like, what's the movie
where the guys were all over? Memento was another one
that I could never like figure out. But I guess
you're gonna have to keep that one gym for But

(58:12):
I did want to mention that to somebody that we
have worked together with, who said there was a the
whole thing of five degrees of separation, seven degrees of
Kevin Bacon Kevin. But when you think about it, now,
when I think about it, I can't think of anybody that, like,
I worked with a long a call, I worked with,

(58:35):
you know, who worked with Humphrey Bogart, you know, and
like and I met de Niro, like, I don't think.
I can't think of anybody that I'm like, one degree
is a separation from like, so what do we have?

Speaker 3 (58:47):
What do you and I have?

Speaker 2 (58:48):
Well, now we're we would be one degree of separation
because all right, oh.

Speaker 3 (58:53):
I thought you figured out that we worked with somebody.

Speaker 2 (58:56):
Oh oh yeah, we worked together. I worked with a
guy na Luca Burke of Each.

Speaker 3 (59:01):
Luca Broke of Each.

Speaker 2 (59:02):
Yes remember him? Yes it was my husband, yes, yes, yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:09):
I named my second son Luca, not after him. I
just love that name.

Speaker 2 (59:12):
Yeah. And I did a movie Beach. I don't know.

Speaker 3 (59:17):
You know, father was a filmmaker in Italy. I think
you might have gone back to Italy. I'm not sure.

Speaker 2 (59:25):
He was a very interesting look. I was just going
to say good looking in a very kind of like
Italian sort of whatever it is, said away like very yeah.

Speaker 3 (59:36):
Just scary, scary, but attractive.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, he's an attractive guy. And he
was really really good in that And and I thought
that the portrayal you know, that you had in that
movie was it's hard for me to understand, but it's
very indicative a lot of women who are an abusive relationships,

(01:00:06):
and and you talk about that at.

Speaker 3 (01:00:10):
All, I know, I know, I mean, I mean, we
already talked about addiction to love, and she was obviously
addicted to coke as well.

Speaker 1 (01:00:20):
But she.

Speaker 3 (01:00:22):
She just needed to go back to him, doesn't she say?
At one point he needs me and you don't. So
I think she needed to be needed. It sounds like
a cliche, but it's huge. It's huge for a woman.
You know, you grow up thinking that you're going to

(01:00:42):
need to be a caretaker. The woman you know, you're
your brother can go out and you know, play baseball,
but you're going to help your mother make dinner or something.
You know you're going to be the caretaker. So yeah,
it's it's I rewatched that movie again too recently, and

(01:01:07):
I thought, why does she go back to her us?
And I played the part yeah, or her boyfriend or whatever.
I don't know. She just she needs, she needs to
be needed, She needs that life, she needs the coke,
she needs him. Michael's trying to get her to go straight.

(01:01:31):
It's too confusing, it's too hard. She can't change that quickly.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
Well, and I I was surprised that they put that
all in thirty days actually, like that old movie takes
place in thirty days, because it always felt to me
like it was it was longer. But they have alcoholics anonymous,
of course. And then they've got something called alan On. Yes, right,

(01:01:58):
So alan On is for people I believe, like the
woman that you played in that movie that just am
I right, Jim, and that that alan On is like.

Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
The families I think alcoholic person all is.

Speaker 4 (01:02:16):
It's for the like a support group for for there's
a word.

Speaker 2 (01:02:20):
There's a word that they use in a a a lot,
which is somebody who lets the person use when they're
around the Okay, that's she's an enigbler, right right, And
there's that seems to be a big big thing as

(01:02:45):
far as uh.

Speaker 3 (01:02:48):
Like the character that you and she actually needed that
job because I don't think he worked.

Speaker 2 (01:02:56):
He came home throwing something in a garage. Yeah, I
think I saw were stolen.

Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
Good, right, So she needed the job, She needed the guy.
She didn't believe that Michael Keaton would really want to
stay with her. She didn't have the confidence. She was
absolutely without self confidence. Yeah, you know, and Michael thought
he could. I keep saying, Michael, what's the character's name?

(01:03:26):
By the way, Michael is so amazing, isn't he.

Speaker 4 (01:03:30):
Darryl?

Speaker 3 (01:03:31):
Of course, Darryl, thank you.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
It doesn't look like well he you know, for all
of us, weren't there when he was. By the way,
did you guys rehearse that?

Speaker 3 (01:03:43):
Yes, did quite a bit, and then we went to
that allan AA meeting and.

Speaker 2 (01:03:50):
Yeah, yeah, okay, Well I've always just thought rehearsals were
always so good. Let me ask you a question about it.
I want to come back to it. Well, he was
like mind blowingly good because we all saw him in
a certain way. Yes, and so when that happened and

(01:04:11):
when that came out, and he was just so manically chained,
smokingly needy manipulative like he was just I mean, that
was I guess the beginning was that after he did Batman,
or before he did Batman, Jim, do.

Speaker 4 (01:04:31):
You know, I think it came after just after.

Speaker 2 (01:04:35):
Right after he did Bad Queen and so before Batman
was Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:04:39):
In fact, that's one of my other examples of me
being in a movie with somebody who just shoots to
the top.

Speaker 2 (01:04:46):
Yeah. Yeah, it was the movie he.

Speaker 3 (01:04:48):
Did, not that he wasn't. Yeah, he was. I mean,
he was obvious already a movie star, a wonderful actor,
but actually.

Speaker 2 (01:04:57):
Not taken seriously in the way that somebody would to
get nominated for an Academy Award.

Speaker 3 (01:05:02):
Yeah, yeah, to do the wonderful work that he did
in the movie, which was all one take you know Birdman,
I mean, to do that kind of Nobody really thought
of him as the one to do work like in Birdman. Yeah,
he got nominated for that, right one.

Speaker 2 (01:05:22):
Yeah. Sorry, yeah, so, but you had a chance to
work with Morgan Freeman again, you.

Speaker 3 (01:05:31):
Know, and he was so different in that one. Maybe
that's why I said to him, I feel like I'm
still doing my old my character from our other movie.

Speaker 4 (01:05:42):
Uh.

Speaker 3 (01:05:42):
He Actually I think I heard I wasn't there, but
I heard he threw a chair the first rehearsal on us,
not at somebody, no, no, no, but as the as
that guy. Yeah, alow, but how could that be because
that guy was so unflappable. He'd seen it all, he'd

(01:06:05):
done it all. Yeah, so he didn't. Probably didn't, really, doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:06:10):
It sounds like maybe maybe somebody got that mixed up
with the role that he played in New York.

Speaker 3 (01:06:15):
Yeah, jump jumping over the table at Christopher Reeve, who
was so shocked. I was so amazed.

Speaker 5 (01:06:26):
That was.

Speaker 2 (01:06:29):
That movie like I Get home, like got a little.

Speaker 3 (01:06:33):
Too clean and sober for you for me? Yeah, yeah,
I've heard that.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
I think I watched like half of it.

Speaker 3 (01:06:44):
Drink people people come up to me and say, you know,
they can't tell you they were in a They say,
I love that movie. I saw it eight times, And
I know that means that they had seen it in
rehabit right, right, right? But you only saw half of it,
So what does that say about you?

Speaker 2 (01:07:06):
A full rehab?

Speaker 4 (01:07:07):
That's what it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:09):
Well, one of the things it was, and again I
hadn't seen it since it had come out, but I
didn't remember it was that you had an interesting way
of going out. I like Yes, I like it the
way I died. Yes, Yes, it was a huge shock

(01:07:32):
to you. Absolutely, it was a huge shock to me.
It was an absolutely a huge shock to me. You know, yeah,
I mean I get why they did it, but I
you don't see that happen in movies very often.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
You know, it was great, it was great. You didn't
see it coming. You know what was awful about that.
Have you ever done one of those face like that
mask that they have to make, Yes, yes, I've got
a hole and I'm claustrophobic. Oh, it's just awful. It
was the first time I ever did it. I've done
a couple of times since then. But you know, they

(01:08:08):
cover your face with what is that like paper mache
kind of stuff, and they give you a straw through
your nose or your mouth, and you can't see, you
can't hear, yeah, and you really can't breathe very well.

Speaker 2 (01:08:24):
Well, here's the thing.

Speaker 3 (01:08:25):
I had to have the makeup guy hold my hands.

Speaker 2 (01:08:27):
Well it is. It was just the hardest thing, Kathy.
Anytime they do an impression of your face, or they
want to do a likeness of your face, or you know,
they it feels like glue, almost like they just pour
glue all of it. You got a straw. It is
very kind of bizarre. But let me ask you a

(01:08:49):
question about that. Because they did they they put that
on you, I would think to show you in a
place where your face was they could do whatever they
wanted to do, right, They made.

Speaker 3 (01:09:06):
A model of my face that went through the window.

Speaker 2 (01:09:10):
Oh oh well, that happened so fast, fat I didn't
even know that.

Speaker 3 (01:09:17):
In fact, I don't think I had to even act that.
I felt that my biggest job was not to you know,
what's the word, to show that the you know, preview
that this is about to happen. Just you're driving down
the street and you've just done some coke and you're
doing it wrong, you know, you did too much, and

(01:09:39):
and you're thinking about your life.

Speaker 2 (01:09:41):
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, no, that's that was very well.

Speaker 3 (01:09:44):
And then I think we just cut because I certainly
didn't myself go through the window. I probably just you know,
slammed forward a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:09:52):
I'd have to go back that and slow that down.
I thought they It feels to me like they did that,
they put that on you, and then they never used it. No, no, it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):
Didn't put it on me, No, but they.

Speaker 2 (01:10:08):
Put it on a fake head that would go through
a window. And it's in the movie.

Speaker 3 (01:10:13):
I think so now.

Speaker 2 (01:10:14):
Yeah, actually, because I I was, I was looking for
that shot of you, like usually they give you, they
give you that that shot.

Speaker 3 (01:10:27):
I uh, it happens so quick. What about I would
say the editor shout out to the editor for that one.

Speaker 2 (01:10:35):
Right, Yeah, that well, just the idea that, like, they
just don't do that very often. They don't set up
a character and then just have them like for no,
not not for no reason. There's definitely a reason why
they did that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:49):
And you sually there's a little bit of preamble, like
maybe a little musical thing that makes you go, oh,
something's about to happen. There was nothing. He just had
no idea.

Speaker 2 (01:11:01):
Okay, you've done so many movies that there's so many
that I can talk to you about our fingers only
so long, Like, can I talk to you a little
bit about cider house rules? Oh yeah, And I wanted
to know what it was like to work with Michael
Caine because you were around him a lot, and.

Speaker 3 (01:11:25):
Well it was heaven.

Speaker 2 (01:11:27):
Yeah, it's just heaven.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):
Yeah, here's my Michael Caine's story. Okay, we were all
in a hotel and my room I could see down
to the to the front where the cars came to
pick us up in the morning. Yeah, and let's say
the calls five thirty and I look out there, it's
five point fifteen. Michael's out there.

Speaker 2 (01:11:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:11:49):
Every day he was early, he was ready, he was
on time, he knew his words. He was But then
he didn't take it. He didn't sort of act like, well,
guess what I do. I you know. It wasn't something
that he flaunted. He just that was his work ethic.

(01:12:10):
He was a he calls himself a working actor. He's
a working actor. I believe he comes from a family
where the father had a job, like you know, in
a factory or maybe in a shipyard or something. Yes,
I think so. And so he he has a work ethic,

(01:12:31):
and if it's movies or not, he's gonna do. He's
gonna That's how he's gonna be. So that's why Michaelcaine stories.
But at the same time wonderful and adorable to work with.
Kind good.

Speaker 2 (01:12:43):
Did you guys do rehearsals for that?

Speaker 3 (01:12:46):
No, I don't be I don't remember rehearsals for that, right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:52):
I H you know noticed and I and then saw
in the credits j K. Simmons is in that for
about three seconds. Yeah. Was there maybe a larger part
that got cut down? Or do you know what? Because

(01:13:12):
there's a quick shot and I was in I was watching,
I was like, yeah, I think that's K. Simmons And
then and then then I looked at the cast and
of course he was in it, but like, h, very
very short and quick.

Speaker 3 (01:13:28):
I thought, well, he didn't become big until what was
the movie about the drummer?

Speaker 2 (01:13:37):
Well, that's what he won the Academy Award for. He
won an Academy Award for Jim Do you know the
name of that movie where he said whiplash? Whiplash? Yeah,
I had a boy. What did he had done before that? Well,
I know that he did the first Spider Man movie.
He played a very memorable role in the original Spider

(01:13:59):
Man movie. So that but he's not going to get
to play there in the Spider Man movie without having
some really good credits before that I can look up.
I think that one might have kind of elevated his fame,
But in terms.

Speaker 4 (01:14:12):
Of what I remember him from an HBO series called Oz.
Of course he was he played like a.

Speaker 2 (01:14:21):
Skin always worked in Always Nation guy and he was haunt.
I I thought everybody was like so good in that.
I thought Toby Maguire was like so wonderful movie. Really,

(01:14:43):
I just uh and and and Paul, all of the guys,
I mean you guys, Charlie Sarone. I mean that's that's yeah,
where did where.

Speaker 3 (01:14:58):
Did we were in Massachuset? It's they went to New
Hampshire to shoot some that I didn't go on, right, yeah.

Speaker 7 (01:15:05):
Right, yeah, I uh yeah, I really liked that movie
and that was beautiful. Did you like, uh yeah, you know,
it's a I love working with him.

Speaker 2 (01:15:18):
You know, it's a movie that, yeah, you should feel
sad at times, like when Michael Caine's character dies and uh,
you know, the black girl and her father and that
whole situation is so traumatic and it's like it's like

(01:15:38):
a drama, drama, but like you kind of come away
from it.

Speaker 3 (01:15:46):
Feeling hopeful a little bit.

Speaker 2 (01:15:48):
Definitely hopefully And it's such a nice like three sixty
for the yeah maguire character.

Speaker 3 (01:15:57):
Well, it's a beautiful book.

Speaker 2 (01:16:00):
It's based on a book.

Speaker 4 (01:16:03):
World.

Speaker 3 (01:16:03):
According to gar author yeah, you played the station master.
Oh oh no, no, the book is gorgeous.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
Well yeah. I also I think I think the reason
you're able to like have such a like when I
go through your h resume or your career and like
online now and looking like everything's good. Every single thing

(01:16:35):
is good. Everything is good, right, right? Everything is good?
Can you tell me one that isn't good?

Speaker 4 (01:16:44):
I won't put you.

Speaker 2 (01:16:45):
You don't need to do that, but I will. I
will say that it seems to me that you had
a i'll just call it a little bit of a
fallback net. It was there for you that I'm sure
it was lucrative and fun. And that was the Tom sellick. Yeah. Yeah,

(01:17:12):
how many of those?

Speaker 3 (01:17:14):
I did five?

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
You did five? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:17:16):
I think they did eight altogether.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
Yeah yeah, yeah they did. Yeah, and you did five
of them.

Speaker 3 (01:17:23):
It was so fun.

Speaker 1 (01:17:24):
And I love.

Speaker 3 (01:17:26):
Nova Scotia. It was crazy about Nova Scotia. I wanted
to move there.

Speaker 2 (01:17:30):
They shot that Nova Scotia.

Speaker 3 (01:17:32):
It's quite a deal to get there from l A.
But but oh yeah we shot that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:37):
Where did that movie supposed to take place? I think
Maine and they went to Nova Scotia. Why would they
do that? Because of the money.

Speaker 3 (01:17:46):
Yes, it's cheaper and could fly. Everybody know that, Michael,
I've done.

Speaker 2 (01:17:51):
This enough Nova Scotia though for Maine.

Speaker 3 (01:17:56):
But it was so beautiful Nova Scotia.

Speaker 2 (01:18:00):
Yeah, yeah, I cut to her. I I never really
was very good at parties and premiers and uh you neither. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:18:21):
Parties, Yeah, I don't like rap parties. I don't like
goodbye well, I don't like I sort of sneak away, Yeah,
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:18:28):
I don't like goodbyes either. And I've always had trouble,
you know, like being on a red carpet, somebody coming
up hey, you know, putting a microphone in my face.
It's not what I do. I'm just not good at.
Some people are like movie stars and they're like just
good at Oh I don't you.

Speaker 3 (01:18:45):
Know who's so good is Nicole Kidman. She's so good
at that. She's such a brilliant actress. And yeah, she's
also a great business woman. You know, she really she
really knows how to do what she asked you.

Speaker 2 (01:18:59):
You had a lot to do as far as working
together on a movie, And how was how was that experience?

Speaker 3 (01:19:07):
I have to I have to tell you that was
a brutal experience that was Romania. That's right, if you
want to, you want to pick a location that.

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
You can't be talking about your relationship with with Nicole Es, Yes,
and that it just do you have a nice yeah?

Speaker 3 (01:19:26):
Just yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:19:28):
I always find do you find? I mean, I have
a hard time. You know, I always seem to like
everybody I've ever worked with, it's always been pretty you know,
I have the same thing.

Speaker 3 (01:19:46):
I can only really think of two people and I'm
not going to say I would really rather not work
with again. And but honestly, when people say that, I
always try to. You meet somebody, you know, you're at

(01:20:07):
a restaurant or maybe you're on vacation and you know,
oh aren't you an actress and the book and you
want I want to make a good impression because I
don't know where this comes from, this thing of actress
being jerks.

Speaker 2 (01:20:19):
Well, and that's been my experience too. I had a
very very difficult relationship with Lauren Boocall Okay, Lauren ball I,
I who, by the way, I didn't think was already
that good of an actress. And I didn't tell her that.

(01:20:39):
That's not why she didn't that. I mean afterwards, you know,
she did the thing with Bogart and you know she anyway,
I had a very very difficult time with her. But
I heard people were difficult to work with. The guy
in the Rock English, Oh, Sean Conry, Sean Connery. I

(01:21:03):
heard they told me that Sean Connery could be at
a little bit of a bear. And you know, I
sat with him for two weeks for some reason where
I was getting our makeup on together, and he was lovely, fun, wonderful. Uh.
You know, I think people can be frightened of Ed Harris.

(01:21:26):
I worked with Ed twice. I've never gotten to know
Ed very well because well, he is, but he's always
been like when we did the Abyss, he was the
good guy. I was the bad guy. And when we
did The Rock, he was the bad guy and I
was the good guy. So again it's that thing where

(01:21:46):
you don't I never.

Speaker 3 (01:21:48):
Really didn't bond. No, you couldn't really know. Yeah, he
wouldn't know.

Speaker 2 (01:21:54):
And uh, but actors have a bad reputation or being
you know, egotistical, difficult, demanding, Prima Donna's all that sort

(01:22:14):
of stuff. I never find that. I never find that.
I always think of of us as kind of like
a team, and everybody wants to win. Everybody wants to
win the game. And everybody's got their own part that
they play or position that they play on that team.

(01:22:36):
And you know, when you're ready to go. It's so
important to me that if they're ready to go, I'm
standing there right.

Speaker 3 (01:22:46):
I mean, that's a great analogy because I mean, if
the quarterback is throwing you the ball and you're you're
looking the other direction, I mean, you've got to be ready.
You've got to do the right route.

Speaker 2 (01:22:57):
Right. Good for you? You know your football, you're the
right route. That's pretty good.

Speaker 3 (01:23:06):
I actually love sports, you do. Yeah, I could talk
about the Dodgers.

Speaker 2 (01:23:10):
If you like the Dodgers, you and Linda Hamilton should
get together and talk. She loves the Dodgers. I'm surprised
running into each other at at one of the games.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just I'm what, what do
you think? Also, well, they said to uh one of

(01:23:36):
the basketball players, shut up in trouble. Oh yeah. A
lot of times I find it's all this on Joe
Rogan recently. And I like Joe Rogan, you know, like
I watched that show. But it seems like you're an
actor or an actress that you can't say anything. You

(01:23:59):
can't if you're passionate, like well, Dennarrows is an example.

Speaker 3 (01:24:06):
It's a bad rep just just from sort of doing
the work, and just.

Speaker 2 (01:24:10):
For for saying how you feel about what's going on
in the world, in the country, in the state, in
the you know with uh, you know, and I don't.
I don't understand why we're any different than you know,
somebody who's on CNN like they've got an opinion. I've

(01:24:32):
got an opinion, and I don't do it because my
dad always said, never talk about politics or religion with
people you don't know.

Speaker 3 (01:24:44):
And smart.

Speaker 2 (01:24:46):
Yeah, and he was a pretty smart guy. I want
to make sure that I've.

Speaker 3 (01:24:51):
Gotten unt talked about. Boulevard.

Speaker 2 (01:24:53):
Oh well, yeah, I think in the letter. I think
in the letter that we sent you, we and it
was because we had Ditto on and Dido Montelu who
directed recognizing your sayings, which I don't know if you
see that. It's just such a wonderful movie and so
many great, great, great people came out of it, and uh,

(01:25:17):
I did watch a little bit, and I was so
fucking angry that they did this, so angry and that's
what I'm talking about. Boulevard. Yeah, made you fucking audition.
They did make me their motherfuckers.

Speaker 3 (01:25:35):
They did, in fact what I what I had to do.
What who was it who was in doubt? I'm not
sure there was somebody who was who was very who
was in doubt? So I went over to my agents
and are our wonderful producers, Jeff Gilbert and Ryan So sorry, Ryan,

(01:25:57):
I don't have your last name in my head. Uh so,
but uh I had to read every single scene that
she's in on camera. They filmed me reading not but
not with but with my producer who was playing the
other part.

Speaker 2 (01:26:15):
You know what.

Speaker 3 (01:26:15):
I was reading with my producer Jeff and Ryan was filming,
and I didn't know who these guys were, and I
had to read every single scene. And they sent that
tape around to everybody in show business. I understand, and
I got the green light to do the movie. Well,
I you know, I don't think Bob Odenkirk had to

(01:26:38):
do that. You're there's another movie. Bob Odenkirk wasn't Bob Odenkirk.

Speaker 2 (01:26:48):
At the time.

Speaker 3 (01:26:52):
Anyway.

Speaker 2 (01:26:53):
Okay, but so basically, maybe maybe.

Speaker 3 (01:26:56):
Robin just wanted to be sure, I don't know. I
truly don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:26:59):
I have a hard time believing it was Robin, and
I have a hard time believing it was Diddo, but
it was such a good maybe it was, Maybe it was.
I have a hard time believing it was.

Speaker 3 (01:27:11):
Robin is a great actor.

Speaker 1 (01:27:13):
It was.

Speaker 3 (01:27:14):
He was an actual he was an actor. I think,
you know the more and Mindy guy. Yes, it was wonderful.

Speaker 2 (01:27:24):
Jim and I used to watch him this gym. We
used to watch him do improv before Mork and Mindy.
Uh in Hollywood, brilliant.

Speaker 4 (01:27:36):
In Hollywood. We went to an improv one night and
it was hysterical. It was great, and we didn't know
who Robin Williams was. We went back a couple of
weeks later and after the show one of the cast
members said, yeah, to night show was good, but Robin
wasn't here. He's doing an episode of Happy Days and
then and then like two years later, Robin Williams negative star.

Speaker 3 (01:27:59):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:28:02):
So I asked Ditto about it when he was on
the podcast, and uh, I didn't ask him about it.
He told me about it, and I was shocked that
I was not aware of Boulevard. I just I was shocked.
I'd never heard of it. I didn't know it existed,
so I didn't do well. Well, I don't know why,

(01:28:25):
and I'll get.

Speaker 3 (01:28:26):
To that, but.

Speaker 2 (01:28:28):
I so so he mentioned it, and I watched it
and I loved it. I fucking loved it. And I
watched it again yesterday because I knew I was going
to be talking to you and I hadn't seen it
in about a year. Did you again? You play a

(01:28:58):
really a character that is hard to define, you know,
and and and you and you do it very very well.
And I wanted to ask you, like, do you and

(01:29:18):
Robin and Dittoh get together and say, Okay, these who
these who? These are? Who these people are. This is
the way they've been living for the last forty years
or thirty years or whatever it's been. This is what
their sex life started out to be, This is what

(01:29:40):
their marriage started out to be.

Speaker 1 (01:29:42):
Is there?

Speaker 2 (01:29:43):
Do you have those discussions with those guys or you
just like, because you were also brilliant in that just
absolutely wonderful. And I don't understand why more people don't
know about that movie.

Speaker 3 (01:29:57):
I Robin's last last movie, you know, it was his
last well, and I that doesn't explain anything. I don't
know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:30:09):
Well, no, but it's good to know for when it
was well.

Speaker 3 (01:30:14):
Publicized.

Speaker 2 (01:30:17):
Do you think that people.

Speaker 4 (01:30:20):
I don't think of a theatrical distribution. I think it
might mean its box office is barely one hundred thousand dollars.

Speaker 2 (01:30:30):
Do you think that people might not want to see
Robin Williams in that type of situation, like that type
of care. I mean everybody thinks of, you know, even
in Goodwill Hunting. You know there's something Well, it's a
very sad it's a very sad, sad movie. Yeah, it

(01:30:50):
is a very sad movie. Yeah, did you did?

Speaker 3 (01:30:54):
Did ditto? Tell you the story about the location, the
people that we met?

Speaker 6 (01:31:00):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:31:01):
Yeah, tell it again.

Speaker 3 (01:31:03):
Well, we got to the house, the location in Nashville,
and we met the people who lived in the house,
and it was astounding that they first of all looked
like Robin. The husband looked like Robin, the wife looked
like me. And second of all, they were in exactly

(01:31:25):
the same position as the characters in the movie. He was,
he's gay, she knows it. They live separate lives. They don't.
Actually they might still sleep in the same bed. Because
they they love each other. I think they even might
have kids. But but it's it, it's it was. Yeah,

(01:31:53):
it was unbelievable. It was unbelievable, and that helped me
anyway to play the part, because my art is I
love this man. I've always loved him. I've always known
way deep down inside that he's gay. I know so
far down down deep inside that he's gay.

Speaker 1 (01:32:15):
I do.

Speaker 3 (01:32:15):
But we love each other, we are affectionate, we are
no longer sexual. I can sort of. I can understand it.
I can. I can really understand it.

Speaker 2 (01:32:30):
You could, or you could not.

Speaker 3 (01:32:31):
I can.

Speaker 2 (01:32:32):
I can. I can understand.

Speaker 3 (01:32:33):
I can understand loving someone like that, of course. I
mean they met what in college? I think they met
in college. They love the same movies, probably have the
same sense of humor, read the same books. I mean
the movie doesn't show us any of that, but that's
the background. Now he is starting to want to be

(01:32:58):
his authentic self, and he picks up a male hooker,
and then he realizes he has to be who he is. Yeah,
I mean, he realizes that he wants to be out, yes,
and not necessarily pick up hookers, but he wants to
be out and have a real relationship. We see that

(01:33:18):
at the very end, we see him going on a date.

Speaker 2 (01:33:21):
I think, don't we know, I don't think so. I
think the last the last shot in the movie is him.
You know. What Ditto told me was that like that
guy originally went from being like to like like really gay.

Speaker 3 (01:33:38):
Yes, he did, well, he was all weather.

Speaker 2 (01:33:42):
Well he was there.

Speaker 3 (01:33:43):
You go.

Speaker 2 (01:33:44):
Yeah, I mean, no, what I believe happens in because
I just watched it yesterday. I believe that he's driving away,
he's happy. They make you sort of because you're heading off.

Speaker 3 (01:34:02):
I'm going to find my authentic person self too.

Speaker 2 (01:34:05):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:34:07):
They kept using that expression. It's maybe another cliche coming in.

Speaker 2 (01:34:13):
So did you and Robin and talk about that any
of the stones.

Speaker 3 (01:34:18):
No, we did not, but we were all astounded at
this couple who lived in the house where we were shooting.
This couple just blew us away, and and I just oh,
there was a moment we went out in the backyard
with this couple and we were standing just the four
of us standing there talking, and and later they told
me the whole crew and everybody was just just everybody

(01:34:42):
was at the windows watching us, just stunned. Even you know,
Robin wasn't the tallest guy. So even the man was
the same height as Robin.

Speaker 4 (01:34:53):
Oh my god.

Speaker 3 (01:34:54):
Yeah, and the woman basically had my hair. We looked
quite a bit alike.

Speaker 4 (01:35:00):
It was.

Speaker 3 (01:35:00):
It was amazing, and they were so comfortable with it,
with who they were and with their marriage. I mean,
our movie is about Robin not being comfortable. Yes, yes
it is, but you could understand how how a marriage
like that exists. Oh yeah, by meeting these people, I
don't think we didn't really have to talk about it.

(01:35:22):
Said okay, well that helped us enormously. That was our rehearsal.
What was your research?

Speaker 4 (01:35:28):
Can imagine what was.

Speaker 2 (01:35:32):
I have never met I never had an opportunity to
meet Robin Williams. But somebody who I thought knew him
well said that if Robin is speaking to you one
on one, sort of just like the rest of us,
but as soon as two or three people gather, he

(01:35:57):
turns it a little bit more into the Robin Williams
that we're all familiar with, more manic, funny fun Do
you notice that about it?

Speaker 3 (01:36:06):
I did not notice that on this movie. I'm trying
to think, you know, maybe if we were all sitting
around waiting for waiting for the camera or something. No,
he Moore was very into himself. I mean he would
talk to me. He would talk to me, of course,
and to Dittoh but he but he wasn't. He wasn't.

Speaker 2 (01:36:26):
He was not funny funny.

Speaker 3 (01:36:28):
He never did funny ever. He never did funny. He
never did manic. He never did loud.

Speaker 2 (01:36:35):
Okay, okay, So I mean he's and I don't know if.

Speaker 3 (01:36:39):
He was already feel if it was already sick.

Speaker 2 (01:36:41):
Who knows.

Speaker 4 (01:36:43):
Yeah, it was very close to his hand, I know.

Speaker 3 (01:36:48):
And he had Louis Body h syndrome. Am I right
about that?

Speaker 2 (01:36:56):
I don't know the name of it, but it's an Alzheimer's.

Speaker 3 (01:36:59):
Type of Yeah, maybe he was already h I don't know.
I know I And again I shouldn't say that because
I know nothing.

Speaker 2 (01:37:07):
It is called Louis body disease on Louis Body dementia.

Speaker 3 (01:37:10):
Yeah, I saw him the last time I saw him.
We both went from that movie to doing Separate. He
had to do reshoots on one of the Museum movies,
and I went to do Don't Tell Me, Harrison Ford
Age of Adeline. I don't know if you know that
movie in Vancouver, and we had dinner, but his I

(01:37:35):
don't know. She felt like a kind of a man.
It wasn't his wife. It was a some kind of
a manager handler, Robin Robin and a very nice woman.
And I went out for dinner and Robin sat next
to me, and the lady was across the table from us.
Sorry I can't remember her name. And Robin, Robin was

(01:37:59):
holding my hand during the whole time, holding my hand
and kind of trembling the whole time. That was the
only thing I ever saw of him being I don't know,
something was up. And then she we walked to this restaurant.

(01:38:19):
Then she left and went back to her hotel, and
Robin walked me to my hotel. And my last image
of him is he's standing you must know the Sutton
Place in Vancouver where everybody's and so he's standing in
the doorway, you know, And I turned around and waved

(01:38:44):
and he just I just have this image like a
movie of his. Yeah, he's just standing there.

Speaker 2 (01:38:52):
In the doorway, in the doorway. He is one uh,
one of the very, very arry terrible few comedians, I
mean who start as a comedian and end up Jim
can you think of anybody.

Speaker 3 (01:39:12):
Like Michael Keaton kind of. I mean, it's it's Michael Keaton,
s it is.

Speaker 2 (01:39:17):
You're right, You're right. And I'm just wondering if Jim,
can you think of an example of anybody who really
kind of started off like Jerry Lewis and ended up
like Roberts, Like, is there any anybody you can think
of that even comes close to the transformation.

Speaker 4 (01:39:36):
That nobody who had anywhere near the comic chops that
Robin Williams had.

Speaker 5 (01:39:43):
No.

Speaker 3 (01:39:43):
Yeah, because you know a.

Speaker 2 (01:39:45):
Lot of comedians, you know, you get Eddie Murphy, you
get like you like, everybody wants to be in the movies.
Everybody wants to be in the movies.

Speaker 3 (01:39:54):
Actors, aren't they well, in general, a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:39:56):
Of times they are. I just you can kind of
make a case for Jim Carrey. Oh, Jim Carrey. Yeah, Yeah,
that's a that's a good one. Hey, Well, he's a
brilliant guy. He's a brilliant guy. I remember when I
was doing a terrible movie or just done a terrible movie,
and uh, it's Navy Seals. It was Charlie Sheen and

(01:40:20):
I was out partying with Charlie Sheen and.

Speaker 3 (01:40:25):
That's for a whole other podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:40:28):
Well, you know what, when I did the movie Navy Seals,
Charlie was like sober like the entire time, like I
don't know if he I don't know where he was
in his life.

Speaker 4 (01:40:39):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:40:39):
He was funny, fun he was young, like twenty one,
twenty two. It's getting three million dollars for the movie.
He's like, you know, and he was very smart, very
very quick sense of humor, smart sense of humor. But anyway,
I was. I was at that club Gyms right next
to the comedy store. On Son said, you might name

(01:41:01):
of that club, but I was in that club and
I was with Charlie and and Jim Carrey came up
and said, are you you know the guy from the Terminator,
you know? And I was like, oh yeah, and that
I said, oh my god, you're on in Living Color.

(01:41:26):
You're the guy on on in Living Color. And I
immediately went like, wow, dude, you are so talented. You
are so I can't you know, because I don't have
any problem letting people know. Yeah, you are so God,
you were so good, You're so so good. And he

(01:41:47):
looked at me and he said, yeah, but I want
to do what you do. I want to do what
you do.

Speaker 4 (01:41:58):
That?

Speaker 2 (01:41:59):
Oh yeah, good, yeah good, Well if you and obviously
not only did what I did, he did what I
did better than I did. Yeah. I mean, it's just
kind of a story of a guy who kind of
knew what he wanted and went out. I'll tell you
about like, oh yeah, well, okay, we got to stop.

(01:42:20):
I'll tell you my other, my other story from in
Living Color, which is what were the brothers names? Giants
the Ways? But which which one is the Damon? Okay?
So I'm living in Studio City, Okay, and I'm sitting
on my porch and I Jim knows this story, but

(01:42:43):
Kitlin mine too. But I'm sitting on my porch and
I looked down the street and I see these two
people in suits going from door to door, down down
the driveways, knocking on the door, coming up the next
drive way, knocking on the door in suits. And I'm thinking, okay,

(01:43:05):
here they come right And I'm on my front porch
and I thought to myself, I just go inside just
to ignore them. I don't want to like you know whatever.
And then I said to myself, no, really, why why
why should I like change? I'll just sit there and
when they come up and they give me the uh,
I forget the name of the Yeah, what's it called the.

Speaker 4 (01:43:27):
Lighthouse or something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:43:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, something like that. Yeah, And uh, I'll
just take and say thank you very much. And I
was sitting there and I watched them come like next door.
I kind of watched them like I was reading or
something like that. Time and and and they and I

(01:43:49):
felt some walking up and they said excuse me, and
I said yeah, And I was like, you're Damon Williams.
You're Damon Wayne's And he said, like from in Living Color,
I know who you are. Oh my god, what what

(01:44:10):
do you you know? I kind of wanted to say,
what are you doing? What did God's name were you doing?
But it was Damon Wayne's. What was he doing? He well,
it was he's part of that church.

Speaker 3 (01:44:23):
Oh, he is a Jehovah's witness.

Speaker 2 (01:44:26):
Yes, and he from what I understand because I looked
into it a little bit, because it was just so shocking. Yes,
because I wanted to ignore. I wanted to ignore, and
all of a sudden, I was like, oh my God,
I love you. I think you're the greatest thing in
that you know. Uh, from what I understand, the church
took his family and when they were young, when the

(01:44:47):
kids were all young, when the brothers were all young,
and looked after them, and and they grew up in
the church in a loving kind of situation. And thirty
years later or thirty five forty years later, he was
he's still feels and I don't know if you call

(01:45:07):
it an obligation but a desire to spread the word
that these people helped me. Wow.

Speaker 3 (01:45:14):
Yeah, that's wonderful.

Speaker 2 (01:45:15):
Actually cool.

Speaker 3 (01:45:16):
Yeah, I just thought of something. Don't please Lily Tomlin
can be put in the same mix a comedian, I
would say that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:26):
I would say that for sure, Ok, thank you.

Speaker 3 (01:45:29):
I don't know if it discourts me.

Speaker 2 (01:45:31):
I'm trying to think.

Speaker 3 (01:45:32):
I don't agree. Do you remember her in oh, you
know the famous one Nashville. It's called actually Nashville.

Speaker 2 (01:45:42):
Well is that the name of it?

Speaker 4 (01:45:45):
Yeah, she was in that.

Speaker 3 (01:45:47):
Remember when he's singing that song to her?

Speaker 2 (01:45:52):
Listen. I was too busy looking at Goldiehan. She was
doing the telephone lady laughing. I didn't pay that much
attention to her comedic chops on laughing. I was like,
you're busy, like working at Goldiehan, who Kurt obviously ended
up marrying. But did you have a chance for a

(01:46:16):
while there with Goldie? Yeah? No, no, no, no, no no,
I never never I you know what, Kathy, I've never
been like like a player like I've never been like
I've always been a relationship person. That doesn't mean that

(01:46:40):
I didn't make huge mistakes. I would go from this
is really from the time I was in first or
second grade. I would have a girlfriend, and then I
would meet another girl, and then we'd break up now
and meet another girl.

Speaker 7 (01:46:55):
He's serial monogamous, thank you, I think so, SI serial
serious ended up getting married three.

Speaker 2 (01:47:03):
I'm done now. I'm like, I'm going totally. Five kids.

Speaker 3 (01:47:07):
Do you have five kids?

Speaker 2 (01:47:08):
Yeah, he's number three, and I've got one in the middle. Yeah. Yeah.
And I've got I've got a little boy at home.

Speaker 3 (01:47:16):
You do how old?

Speaker 2 (01:47:18):
He's ten. I've got another one that's just come to
stay with me, that's almost about ready to go out
and be a first responder. He's twenty two. And then
he's thirty three. And I've got twin boys who are
forty one. And I've been married three times and so

(01:47:40):
and I was doing a lot of acting and a
lot of partnering, a very busy life. But listen, do
you look at your career and your life in a

(01:48:02):
way which is like, wow, I really I really enjoyed this,
I've really had a good time. Are lucky?

Speaker 3 (01:48:12):
Absolutely?

Speaker 2 (01:48:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:48:14):
I feel people say, oh, what are you working on?
You know, and and I'll work if it's the right thing.
But I'm not do have that fire in the belly anymore.
I think it's partly because I sort of I sort
of feel I was going to say, well, I do
feel like I feel like I've really done just about

(01:48:36):
everything I set out to do. I have.

Speaker 2 (01:48:38):
I wonder if you realize that, and do you feel
you know, because I do myself too, because go ahead,
well just.

Speaker 3 (01:48:49):
You know, I'm yes, I feel I feel lucky and blessed.
But I also feel like I kept trying to give
up acting. You know, I was very confused with the
mother wife mother slash actor that was that didn't work

(01:49:10):
very well. I don't do that very well?

Speaker 2 (01:49:13):
How can you? I? I you know?

Speaker 3 (01:49:16):
So yeah, so I'm not sure where I was going.

Speaker 2 (01:49:23):
If you're grateful, if you look back at your career
as something that was so greatful.

Speaker 3 (01:49:30):
So incredibly so so stunned. You know, when the phone
rings and they say and they said, yeah, you're getting
the offer, You're just like what me? And then every
single time thinking they're going to You're going to get
the pink slip every.

Speaker 2 (01:49:45):
Time that's a Have you ever got a pink slip? Me? Either?

Speaker 3 (01:49:50):
Reference there are younger I've come pretty on on clean
up so over every day I thought I was going
to get fired every single day really yeah, yeah, but
then I but you know, I mean, I'm not I'm
not totally confident. Every time I got the job, I

(01:50:10):
go really because I can think about about three people
who would be better than me.

Speaker 2 (01:50:15):
Do you ever do that? I used to do that.
I think I still do. But I don't get that
many jobs as you do, so don't travel, but I do,
you know, I do see people. Let me ask you
this question too. And for me, when I was young,

(01:50:38):
I met Mickey Yorke before Mickey work was any Mickey
Yorck and I went that dude is like there's something
about that dude that is like really really special. Okay,
he came on that series I told you, But I
did for Quinn Martin he came in to do one
day like a day player thing, and I was like, wow,

(01:51:00):
that guy, that guy really like my agent used to.
He's no longer with us, and he's been with he
he was Mel's agent for years. And when I met
Mel Gibson, I was like, this is.

Speaker 4 (01:51:15):
Before Mel had meth the weapon probably.

Speaker 2 (01:51:20):
Yeah, I was right when he first came over from Australia,
so he had done Road Warrior is probably road Roadware.
And I was like, that guy that's like that. Do
you see do you notice that? Do you ever see actresses? Yea,
you do?

Speaker 3 (01:51:35):
Yeah, I do, And I'm I'm kind of awful because
I also do the opposite. I look at someone and
I say, you know what, I don't think they're going
to work again very much. You know, you might work
with somebody and they're so excited and they got the part,
and I think, somehow, you're not. It's not going to work.
It's not going to go anywhere for you. I don't

(01:51:57):
know why, exactly do.

Speaker 2 (01:51:59):
You do you ever? Do you ever walk away from
experiences going like she's she certainly doesn't have it, or boy,
I must not oh yeah all the time. Okay, Well

(01:52:28):
I think that you're brilliant well, and I think that
you're You've got many, many more great roles ahead of
you if you want, if you want them. And I've
always been a huge fan. And I can't thank you
enough for for talking and being you know who you
are and and and and making my life more joyful

(01:52:51):
by watching you.

Speaker 3 (01:52:52):
That's wonderful, very wonderfully true.

Speaker 2 (01:52:55):
Thank you, thank you, Thank.

Speaker 3 (01:52:57):
You for having me. It's been so fun.

Speaker 2 (01:53:00):
Yeah, well I'm glad you had fun. Yeah I did.

Speaker 3 (01:53:02):
I had lots of fun.

Speaker 2 (01:53:02):
You guys are great, good god do you have?

Speaker 3 (01:53:06):
And I can feel I can really feel what you
are saying to me. I can feel it from you.
You're not just saying it.

Speaker 2 (01:53:13):
No, I don't. I usually don't just say things. Well,
I do have a ten year old son. Anyway, Thanks guy,
thank you, thank you.

Speaker 5 (01:53:31):
Let you a strange begin show. Which hand would you
choose to up the way? To do way? How would
you look upon someone ditier than you are?

Speaker 2 (01:53:45):
Ding me? Carrying on with that shoe
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