July 7, 2025 • 63 mins
In this week’s first episode of Just Foolin About, Michael and the gang talk about the passing of Actor Michael Madsen last week. They reflect on his career, personal struggles, and the tragedy of his son's suicide. The conversation then shifts to the troubled lives and careers of other Hollywood figures like Tom Sizemore and Val Kilmer, touching on addiction and personal demons. They also explore classic films, revisiting the works of Stanley Kubrick, particularly 'Paths of Glory' and 'Barry Lyndon,' and discuss their meticulous filmmaking techniques.
YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4dHNzumLLaFOIRqm4kcaAA
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/justfoolinabout/
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Intro
02:22 Remembering Michael Madsen
11:23 Tom Sizemore's Addiction Struggles
29:39 Michael’s Son & His Acting Ambitions
32:32 Finding Material for a Reel
33:18 Discussing Bruce Beresford's Films
36:49 Paths of Glory and Kubrick's Style
45:36 Barry Lyndon and Kubrick's Cinematic Techniques
51:58 Ryan O'Neal's Career and Personal Life
59:27 Penelope Ann Miller and Filming Experiences
01:00:58 Outro
YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4dHNzumLLaFOIRqm4kcaAA
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/justfoolinabout/
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Intro
02:22 Remembering Michael Madsen
11:23 Tom Sizemore's Addiction Struggles
29:39 Michael’s Son & His Acting Ambitions
32:32 Finding Material for a Reel
33:18 Discussing Bruce Beresford's Films
36:49 Paths of Glory and Kubrick's Style
45:36 Barry Lyndon and Kubrick's Cinematic Techniques
51:58 Ryan O'Neal's Career and Personal Life
59:27 Penelope Ann Miller and Filming Experiences
01:00:58 Outro
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I have declared war against my brain in order to say.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
That won's don't seem to so long as so long
as I know.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
They will be time stop.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
I don't have to Jim.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I'm well yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I'm pretty good.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Pretty good for Monday morning.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I don't know what the hell that was, but that's.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
That's the Mama's in the poppet. Wow.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Whenever you're saying anything, it's a little bit like me saying.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
We're not recording.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah, yeah, we are recording. So yeah. Since since we're starting, Jim,
I thought that we'd like throw out, you know, the
conversation for the hour, and I wanted to talk to
you and get your perspective on the different episodes, the characters,
(01:11):
and the success of the TV show Squid Games.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Oh yeah, I'm fully prepared to discuss that. All right,
we got a more serious That's one of those things
that somebody's going to have to explain to me one
of these days. What little I've seen of it has
no appeal to me whatsoever. Maybe I'm missing something.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I think that's because you're seventy something and you're not
seven or eight years old.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
That's true too.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I watch it.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
You do like it.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah, it's fun, all right.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Well, I watched an episode of Last Seasons, which was
about five years ago, a long time ago, and there
must have been a lot of legal somebody, somebody all
of a sudden was making billions of dollars and they
didn't know who. But it was a long time in
(02:18):
between the first and second episode, even even longer than
Stranger Things, which from what I understand now is coming out.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I don't know if it was that long. I mean,
the first season came out and then I think season two.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
This is season two, right, No, this is season three
of Squid Games. Yeah, okay, I'm gonna I just wanted
to just start the podcast off because Michael Mattson died
a few days ago, and I I didn't know Michael
(02:56):
very well. I've run into him a few times, and uh,
I've spoken with him a few times, and we've we've
laughed about the fact that we both had a lot
in common, uh, being that you know, he was kind
(03:21):
of a Quentin Tarantino guy. I was kind of a
Jim Cameron guy. H. He has been in some absolutely
terrible ship and so have I, and uh, you know, uh,
he's been married. I think he was married three times,
maybe twice or three times. I've been married three times.
(03:46):
And uh, he has six children or seven had six,
well he still has and whatever six or seven children
and I have five boys, and so oh oh yeah.
And I think that Michael used to used to drink
(04:07):
a little bit, and so so did I back in
the day. But I I didn't really know Michael very well.
I enjoyed the time that I did spend with him,
and every single person that I know that has ever
(04:34):
worked with him really really liked him. And there were
times when people said, well, you know, he might have
been drinking while he was doing this show or that one,
but he was great. People really really liked him, and
(04:54):
I I've always I always had a very nice experience
with him. Like I said, I thought we had a
lot in common. We I'll tell you who was very
very close to him and I was with him. Well,
I was talking to Rico. Rico Simonini is the doctor
(05:16):
who we've had on the podcast, and I hope we
can get him back on soon.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah, we talked about having him on multiple times.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yeah, I was sitt into something. When medical comes up, well,
you know, call him in a heartbeat, heartbeat.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
He's the guy to call cardiology.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Yeah, but I know that Rico was very close to
him and Jennifer's my wife's family was they knew Michael
pretty well. And I know Jennifer's mother and her stepfather
(05:56):
liked him a lot. They dealt with him in in
a business capacity, and they really really liked him. They
you know, they knew that he had some issues, but
they really really liked him. I've actually never heard anybody
say anything negative about Well. I had one person I
(06:22):
was sitting next to you that seemed to be frustrated
that he felt like he wasn't prepared once. But I
wanted to read this because Rico, it's not only a
great doctor. I think he was a little bit of
(06:44):
a support system for Michael. I know that when Michael's
son committed suicide, what would that have been about a
year ago? Over a year ago, and he was having
trouble with that and having trouble getting to the funeral,
and just it was just a bad, bad obviously a
(07:07):
lot horrific, horrific time for.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I'd forgotten about that. Yeah, but he had a son
who committed suicide.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Yeah, he was in the army. It was over he
was in I think the Army, and he was in Hawaii,
and uh, you know, he called his dad a couple
of times and right or texted, Yeah, texted his dad
Michael a number of times right before he committed suicide.
(07:38):
And like, I don't think Michael ever saw it coming,
because Michael I was talked about the fact that I
think that Michael's son, the one who committed suicide, and
his wife for trying to have a baby, and it
looked like that wasn't going to work out because he
(07:59):
didn't have have the means to make her pregnant sperm.
You know, I don't know what it was, but I
think that Michael was trying to help his son in
that situation. And I know his son wasn't happy with
being in the military and it really kind of wanted out.
I don't know what happens when you're in the military
(08:21):
and you just want to go.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Generally you can get out. I mean, it's not a ward.
We're not in war time right now, and if you're
just really psychologically unfit for it, the military will generally
usher you out rather than keep a troublemaker around her,
keep someone who's you know, I'm not willing to serve.
I'll get him out well for the most.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Part, anyway. Maybe I'm sure there's there were.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
All sorts of obviously, lots of things going on there.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
I just wanted to read what Rico wrote because Rico
knew him quite well and was a good friend of his,
and when his son committed suicide, I was talking to
Rico a year ago or a year and a half ago,
whenever that happened, trying to I was trying to express
(09:12):
to Rico as much as I could that, you know,
he could not help Michael at that time. You know,
he seemed to be frustrated that he was unable to
reach him, help him. You have a good friend that
(09:32):
he's just like, yeah, yeah, just and so I remember
talking to Rico for a while. This is what Rico wrote.
I had the privilege to be his real friend, doctor Guardian,
Guardian Angel, who got to work with him on screen
(09:54):
and have late night discussions with him about life, death
and the narrow space in between. He was a tragic
poet on and in inevitable trajectory despite our love and Cissy,
(10:20):
you can explain to me what that is. Efforts like
I think no matter how hard they tried, it didn't
like it, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Or it comes from the myth of Sisyphus the Greek.
The Greek. Yeah, the Greek rolling the ball, rolling the
rock up the hill and never getting to the top.
It's just kind of fruitless effort.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Uh, when I get to that world, I'll let you say,
jam it was with me. He was a tragic poet
on an inevitable trajectory, despite our love and what efforts
to save him. As Michael never recovered from the death
(11:04):
of his son and was tortured by the ghosts of
his life traumas for what she punished himself. You're freebody
fly so quite touching.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, that's is there is there any information on his
cause of death? He was what only thirty seven?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
I think heart attack?
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Yeah? But wow, you know Michael was uh had he
not been go ahead, had not been well at all
since his son died, and and even before that he
had not been well.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
I was wondering if he saw any similarities in his
career and his sort of you know, demise, unfortunate passing
and Tom Sizemore.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Well, you know, it's interesting because between him and vow
and Tommy size More. You know, those are three guys.
I think all three of them are a year or
two younger than me. But you know, I was around
uh Tommy, uh and and we were around each other.
(12:19):
We did a movie that Nick Vallealonga was in it,
and uh, when I was separated from Caitlin's mother, I
was kind of hanging out with Patsy Kensitt down in
Santa Monica and I had a house down in Santa Monica,
(12:42):
and I, uh, you know, I I you know, I
was kind of enjoying myself down there, and I Matt
Craven brought over Tommy Sizemore, and I had you know,
(13:05):
I knew Matt and Matt and I had worked a
lot together, and uh, Tommy I'd never met before, but
you know, tell me it was kind of one of
those guys that, you know, he showed up, he had
a presency, he had a very interesting combat kind of
a thing going on, and uh, I can remember offering
(13:25):
him a drink and he said, now, no, I don't
want to drink. And uh, I think that I said
something along the lines of of are you like sober
or you like don't drink or it's like, oh no, no, no, no,
(13:46):
I just I just don't feel like a drink. And
it was something about that. Ever since then, I was
was always a big cool question mark in my mind
about tom And of course Tommy went on to like
just be like one of the worst addicts in the
(14:08):
history of my being around a lot of addicts and
a lot of actors and singers, and like, I've never
known anybody who struggled as much as he did. We
were doing I did a show with him that Nick
had a longer directed, and Nick told me that he
(14:31):
was going to hire him, and I said, I, Nick,
I don't, I don't think that's a very good idea.
You know, I know he's a a wonderful actor, but
I think it's you know, we've got to be careful
and Nick, well, you know Nick Nick does his own thing, obviously,
so Nick Nick. Now this was after Tommy had already
(14:59):
come out with his He had a tape that somebody
either he taped himself or he had like other people
or other people taping him without knowing it, but it
was him and like three hookers, and it was just
(15:19):
very almost disturb.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Me hanging around with quite a bit.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Well, this was after Heidi Flies. Okay, I mean I
think he married Heidi Flies. Yeah, that was this. This
is later he was he was really messed up in
this in this in this video, and he had like
something I'd never even seen before. I don't even know
what it is. It's like something like like a glove
(15:45):
that you wrap around your cock and kind of jerk
jerk helps jerk get it hard. I don't think the
guy was ever ever had a heart on in this
porn video, which you know, uh so, but it was
you know, this was after that that Nick wanted to
(16:06):
hire him, and he's obviously like hammered and with the
booze and the math I think the math boy, that math,
the drug man, that just really sucks up a lot
of people. And I think both him and Heidi were
big myth freaks and that and the porn video was
(16:28):
just like like like how did this get out? Why
did I watch this? You know, it's just really really disgusting.
What do you call that word when you enjoy the.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
The the horrible misfortunes of others? Yeah, the Germans come
up with an expression that.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Mine can go into overdrive sometimes.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
I watched it with Jennifer, I think, and I guess
we laughed at it and just up like this is
this is absolutely this is insane. But what happened was
he says, next sitting, well, I only need him for
a couple of days. So we actually had a rehearsal
day or two in that movie, and he was there
(17:19):
for the rehearsal and he was fucking high. You know.
I was like, you can't fool a fucking another attic
made just like, you know, he could fool Nick, he
could fool a lot of people, but I knew he
was fucking high, and uh. And we rehearsed, and then
(17:40):
he caught up with me outside and started talking to me,
and you know, spent ten minutes basically saying how sober
he was, and he was obviously fucking high. I knew
he was high, but I'm not going to be like, oh,
don't give me your shit, you know, like I don't.
I didn't know him, you know, well enough to I
(18:03):
just you know, he kind of ran after me, said
let me know that how sober he was, and he
was in Now, if you were just on the street
and he was buying a sandwich from you at a
club or maybe even working or something like that. You
wouldn't you wouldn't know that he was high. But like
(18:24):
I said, I I'm I have a little bit more
experience in that field than most people. And he was
just fucking high and uh and he spent you know,
most of that time talking to me about not being high.
And what happened was, you know, this is just typical time.
(18:45):
Tommy size for who was a wonderful actor in a
lot of stuff, and people like de Niro really tried
to help him.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Oh, I know DeNiro did when they were doing.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
He Yeah, there there were there were people from all
you know, all his movies and Walks of Life that
really trying to help him get off stuff because he
was he was such a great actor. He was so
talented Saving Private Ryan. If you watch him in Saving
(19:20):
Private Ryan, he's like fucking phenomenal in that movie. You
know one of these Uh, where was it that I said, like,
I'm going to do a Tommy size more here. It
was I was doing another Walking Dead and I get shot.
(19:41):
I get shot in the Walking Dead and I said,
I'm going to do a Tommy size more here. So
when I get shot, I'm going to act more irritated
than hurt, and that's what Tommy kind of does.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And uh, that's see. You didn't Saving five Ryan when
he get shot in the leg. Yeah, oh god, damn,
he throws his gun at the.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Yeah, it's not the pain. It's not anguished. It's frustration,
you know, it's like, you know, bad, you know, and
it's just it's a great acting choice. Really.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
I remember watching Private Ryan not too long ago, thinking
if fliesmore was loaded when he was doing this. He
he did a very good job, because he really is
in that movie. You can tell how demanding it was
on him too.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Well. First of all, he had already had the reputation,
and Spielberg made him piss in a fucking bottle every
fucking day. And they said to him, if this ever
comes back positive, well replace you.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Yeah you get killed in the next scene.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yeah exactly, or something along those lines. But he was,
he was, he was. He was pinging in a bottle,
which which he'll keep you sober for a while, that's
for sure, especially when you're working with spear. But he was.
He was awfully, awfully good in that movie. And so anyway,
(21:08):
so so so he had two days of work on
the show that I did that that Nick directed, and
I've forgotten which one it was, but you could look
it up and see that we're both in it. And
so he was like in a nightclub, a lot of
(21:32):
girls around. He was playing some sort of like boss
or something, you know, like gangster boss or something. And
it might have been is he in stileto? Okay, well
there you go. Yeah, it was still ato. And uh So, anyway,
I wasn't there because I wasn't working. So he's he
(21:53):
basically is in a nightclub. He's got a bunch of
girls around, He's got some lines in that thing. And
then he was kinda you know, I you know he
obviously I knew he was high, no matter what. But
I knew he was high. But but uh so, anyway,
you know, they got the day and they were like, okay,
(22:14):
well we've gotten it, you know. And uh it wasn't
like I was talking to Nick saying, oh, I guess
I was wrong. It wasn't because I wasn't around. But
that night he got busted in Fresno for cocaine possession
(22:38):
or or speed you know whatever, got thrown in jail.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah, I didn't know he was. I didn't know you
were working on a movie with him. I remember the bus.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Yeah yeah, yeah, Well it was in between the you know,
he did one day of work and then the next
day of work was supposed to be his second day
of work, and then he would have been done. But
for some reason, he was up in Fresno scoring fucking
speed or or whatever, and Nick and the production had
(23:13):
to go up there and bail him out and you know,
do whatever it took to get him back so he
could do the other part of his scene. And I
don't you know, I'm not you know. Nick vall Along
was nominated for two or one two again one two
(23:33):
Academy Awards for Green Book and uh uh this was
not one of his better pictures. But that's that was.
That was Tommy size more. But you know, uh I
I I just thought that we should.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
I actually met Tom Sizemore one time, you did. We
came in to do the Adam Kroller Show.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Was hi.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Uh well, so he had already done like celebrity Rehab
with Doctor Drew, so he kind of like knew he
was kind of Adam was aware of whatever, but he
so the way Adams Show worked was a radio format
so he Adam will kind of do the first half
of the show, and then it was like four parts,
so the third part was the guest interview. So he
kind of came in like right on time, right when
we were about to start the guest interview, and then
(24:26):
he went, well, I got to go to the bathroom,
all right, And so he went to the bathroom and
he was in there for a very long time and
we were all, which is wait, we wait. He was
in there for a very long time and he comes
out of the bathroom and he's covered sweat in.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Baby powder and baby powder.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
When we had baby powder in the bathroom. But he's
just it's all over him. It's all over him, and
we were like, that's weird, but okay, whatever, we do
the interview. Fine. I didn't notice anything. He seemed fine, whatever,
go home. Get a call from my producer at like
seven at night, going Tom Seizemore left something at the
(25:06):
studio you need to go to the studio and unlock
it for him. So at like seven at night, I
drove to the studio and I and I unlocked the
studio for him, and he ran to the bathroom and
then he came out and then me and him, just
me and him just share to cigarette. We were just talking.
He didn't seem high, but that.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
So he left something and he left his drugs in there.
Yeah yeah, yeah, Well we all have our demons and
had our demons and uh so yeah, between Val and
(25:45):
Michael and tom Right and Tommy, you know, that's that's sorry.
Guys who really sort of did a did a lot
of a lot of good work. You know. One of
the things that they talk about with Michael Matts and
is how you know how dangerous he was? And one
(26:08):
of the movies that for some reason, when I'm reading
the Old Bitch his obituary and you know, people are
obviously it's online, it's everywhere, and they talk about him
and stuff. He did a movie that was successful, and
I think they did a second one where he was
(26:29):
like the friend of like a whale or something. Do
you know what I'm talking about, Jim, No, free Willie?
Was it called free Willie? For sure? Who directed that?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Calin Simon windsor Okay?
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Well that did they do a second one? Yeah? Yeah,
that was very successful and popular. Yeah, so you know,
never do never do movies with animals or children in
our animals. But I guess if if it's a whale,
you're you're better off. But that was that was not
(27:06):
Michael obviously, that was not Michael Mann, you know, dancing
around with a stiletto in his hand and being dangerous and.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Made one hundred and fifty three million dollars on a
twenty million dollar budget.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
There you go, there you go. So anyway, I don't
know really what else to say about what you.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Were saying that, you know, we would kind of picture
him as this ominous and threatening force in in movies.
In movies obviously, like like Reservoir Dogs and the remake
of The Getaway, and but he was very touching. I
thought he was very touching. In Thelman Louise, he played
(27:56):
I think Teena Davis's husband. I thought he was really
he played one of the women's husband. I thought he
was really quite affecting in that movie.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
So yeah, one of the interesting things about Michael's career,
and this is what people go, like, fucking career should
have been this, you know, like whatever, But Quentin Tarantino
(28:28):
wanted to use him. He offered him the role and
wanted him to play the role that John Travolta played
in what's the name of that movie in pulp fiction. Yeah,
that was he was the very the first choice. And
(28:50):
do you know why he couldn't do it, Jim, No, Yeah,
he was doing Kevin Costner's wyat And really who did
he play in that? Did he play one of the
ir brothers? I think he did, think, Yeah, that's why
he couldn't be uh in in in that movie. But
(29:13):
that was according to Virgil Virgil, Yeah, Virgil, And uh,
according to what I've I've I've I've heard Quinton talk
about this before and I've never heard Michael talk about it.
But uh, I I you know, I you know, there
(29:36):
we go, you kind of getting to an age now
it's like, oh, this one's gone, that one's gone, this
one's gone. I'm like, uh, they're all a little bit
younger than me, and you know, I was like, oh boy. Uh. Anyway,
(29:57):
I wanted uh to talk a little bit, Jim to
you about the fact that I have one of my
boys is Alex Alexander, and Alex came to come stay
in America. He wants to live in America, and uh,
(30:18):
he has kind of a two pronged like like like
things that he wants to do. One is that he
wants to He's always wanted to be an actor. I mean,
I've always been behind that because I've always had a
very very good experience and I think that if he's
(30:39):
a good looking kid, and from what I've seen him
doing on stage and stuff.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
I'm going to say, you've seen some stage working goods,
haven't you.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Yeah, And I've always thought he was really good. So
I thought, you know, I don't think it would hurt
to have my last name and you know, uh and
being Alex, Yeah exactly, you know. And so he so
(31:11):
he's in town now and he's, like I said, got
this too.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
He was in England. He spent he spent his years
growing up in England, went to school out there for acting.
Now he's back and.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Yeah, and he I think he left twenty he was
about twelve, and then he graduated from college and now
now he's staying with me. He must be an actor.
But he also has got a real talent for being
a first responder and is an EMT over in England.
It's only twenty two and you know, writing around on
(31:45):
ambulance is saving people and so but when he comes
over to America, he has to you know, he has
to be verified in sure, thank you, certified in America
the same way that he was over in England. So
he came over here, he took some courses and they
(32:07):
just make him jump through a bunch of hoops and
so on and so forth. So at the same time too,
he wants to put a little real together and uh,
you know, do some acting stuff. And we were talking
about it and I said, well, you know he's got
he can do. You know, he can do a wonderful
(32:28):
English like all sorts of English accents that the one
they used for Shakespeare when the Queen does the Cockney accent.
I think he can do an Australian accent. So he's
very very good with accents. And we were talking a
couple of days ago and he was like looking for
(32:50):
material and he you know, he had a couple of
ideas for material that he would do. Because I've got
somebody some people have come out and shot me for
documentaries before, like, you know, if there's anything we can
do for it. Plus I have a lot of friends,
and I know a lot of people have got cameras,
and people who've got cameras they like using them. Hey
(33:12):
could you come out and shoot, yes, yes, you know,
they just they like using them. They like their filmmakers
and even if they're not getting paid a lot of money,
they they like they like filming. And Uh so we
were I was looking around for material, uh for him.
Uh and Jim, you mentioned to me the Bruce Beresford.
(33:38):
Uh is that is that the director who did Is
that the one that you mentioned to me about the
Isn't it is he? Who's Beresford?
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Who was one of those Australian directors you know who
came over here. Uh, Peter Weird, George Miller, the guy
who directed Rogued Warrior, and Beresford came over. And the
movie that we were talking about is called Breaker Morand
(34:14):
which came out in I think about nineteen eighty, which
has certain similarities to the Stanley Kubrick classic movie Paths
of Glory because it's about three soldiers on trial on court,
being court martialed by their own army, with the very
strong possibility that they're going to get executed in fact,
two of them. Oh, it's kind of a courtroom drama
(34:40):
with cutaways to the events that lead up to that
courtroom drama. Very very powerful movie. Ed Woodward stars in it.
Brian Brown has a great part in it as.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Well, nominated for Best Adapted Screenplay too.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
And it's got some great speeches and being a courtroom drama,
it's got some great speeches in it, kind of like
you know, a few good men. You know, it's got
some moments like you can't handle the truth. It's it's
I think it's got some great stuff in it. Uh
that was one that I suggested, So you know, there
there are plenty of others around.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
For sure, but uh, well, I was, you know, I
was uh uh.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I thought not long ago again, what Bakker? Yeah, last
in the last six months or so.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Well, I was looking for like World War two movies,
and I was looking for speeches and that kind of stuff.
And you mentioned Breaker Morano. Man, I thought, like, god,
it's a great movie. I haven't seen it a long time,
so I'm gonna, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna, I'm gonna
watch it. And I did, and you know it, it's
(35:49):
a wonderful movie. And it uh uh it, this is
all gonna surprise you, Jim, because you haven't heard any
of this. H but it I watched it and I
thought this is really good. At the end, uh, there
is a member of the service who gives a closing argument,
(36:16):
a guy who was like their commander and gives like
a no noise. A lawyer comes in.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
From the defense counsel.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
He's their defense counsel, and he gives he gives a
final summation, and it's good. I mean, it's just really
really good, you know. And I was, you know, before
that I'd taken a quick look at Inherit the Wind
because of you know, all the straight stuff and that.
But I I I so I said to him, well,
(36:48):
you check out Kamrant. I think it, you know. And
then I watched it and I told him today was
this morning or yesterday? I I said to him, there's
another movie you might want to watch, and that's Passive
Glory and Pathsive Glory, of course, is Stanley Kubrick's movie.
(37:12):
And I, as much as I, you know, have a
personal problem with the way that he treated Timmy and
the way that he treats actors and all that sort
of stuff. You know, I've I'm kind of done with
the whole you know, I'm boycotting Stanley Kubrick, you know.
(37:32):
And so I I watched Paths of Glory yesterday also,
and Paths of Glory is Kirk Douglas starring. And that
guy by the name of Ralph Meeker. I don't know
if you remember him very well, Jim.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
But yeah I do. And remember, you know, Clenton Tarantino
was a huge fan of Ralph Meeker's.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Yeah, he talked.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
About him quite a bit too. Yeah, Ralph. Ralph Meeker
was in a ton of movies in the in the
fifties and sixties. Yeah, and you'd recognize him from like
cop movies or war movies, et cetera. And he's he's
especially good in this movie, I think.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Yeah. So Paths of Glory is got some just absolutely
wonderful stuff in it, all the way around, the fighting sequences,
the explosions, the guys trying to charge to uh. I
(38:34):
think they were trying to overcome an area called the antill.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Yeah it was. It was in World War One in
those minefields where the two armies were like locked and yes,
where where it might take months to gain a couple
of inches. Truth, you know, they were locked in those
in those trenches, that trench warfare that was going on
in World War One, and.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
There was there was a general who got bent out
of shape, who you know, wanted to throw us weight around.
And you know, I guess back then, if you know
things didn't go your way, just say like you know, uh.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
You know who one of the screenwriters was on that movie.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Jim Thompson.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Jim Thompson, you know, Jim.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I hadn't thought about that explaining who Jim Thompson is
to the.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Well, he was basically known as a as a writer
of kind of hard boiled fiction novels like The Getaway,
The Grifters. Yeah, Pop twelve eighty, that won that book
that you liked so much that you had me read
some years ago, that actually got made into a friend
movie cause you know, called Coup de Torchon, And uh
uh you know, I mainly pictured Jim Thompson as a
(39:47):
writer of novels. I didn't know he did much screenwriting, right,
But when I saw his name in the credits for
Paz Glory, I thought, well, that kind of makes sense
in a way, you know, because Pasi Gloria is a
tough movie. It's a hard, hard movie, hardbitten movie, you
know it. Uh, It's got really a very touching and
I know I know, and that's his wife. That was
(40:09):
Kubrick's wife. He married that woman.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Well, she was very good. Yeah, she was just very
very very good in it. And I guess she must
have been German, right, the woman that.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
He married Dutch. I believe Dutch.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Excuse me, there's something plain, it's just my it's just
my somebody calling me. Uh yeah, I was supposed to
get back to somebody on something, and uh, I need
to do that. Here's my family member, my brother's son
wants me to do. I would do an interview with me.
(40:51):
Somebody kind of has to do with Mandalorian and I'm like,
I don't really have that, you know. But anyway, Yeah,
so I watched Passive Glory, which I believe he's black
and white, and I really it's like I've always said,
(41:16):
uh that Doctor Strange Love and Passive Glory were Kubrick's
best movies. And I didn't really well, I you know,
I didn't know that, uh that that he because of
their relationship. Uh. Kubrick went on to direct.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Uh, and well, when you look at at Kubrick's movies,
the Spartaca seemed a little out of place.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
And that's because.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Spartakas is one of those great sword and sandal movies
that were so popular in the fifties and sixties. I
grew up on those things, and Spartacus was an especially
good one. But it was a movie that Douglas had
started directing himself and realized that he couldn't play the
lead and direct it. And he had just made Paths
of Glory with Kubrick and Stanley can you come in
(42:20):
and kind of take over? So Kubrick had nothing to
do with the development of that movie, with the screenplay,
with anything, and he came in to basically take over
when Douglas asked him too. So even though his name
is credited as a director and you do, you know,
include it in his list of movies, it's not a
Kubrick movie in the sense that Stanley was pretty much
(42:40):
involved in developing his own stories too. And when you
put you know, Paths of Glory, Lolita with James Mason
and Petersons and Doctor Strangeloved together, those are four. Those
are three pretty goddamn good movies, you know. I mean,
that's that's in some respects a high water mark for him.
He made some pretty good movie after that too. They
(43:01):
I think they kind of diminished in quality as time
went on. But god, that's a that's a good career
right there. You know, Paths of Glory, Lolita and Doctor Strangelove.
Doctor Strangelod was close to a perfect movie as I
can think of, you know, so.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Doc Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I you know, I've
I you know, I had a a bias against tim
because Timmy was my friend. In the way that he
treated Timmy was just so outrageously psychopathic that.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Like well, the other actors on that movie, chill. He
wasn't all that good to Matthew Modin, He wasn't that
good to Dorian here.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
What do you was kind of Yeah, he called called
Matthew a cunt throughout the.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Probably for a month, Yeah, because Modina had gotten a
little bit pissy about the fact that they reshot every
fucking scene twenty five times. You know that all they
did were reshoots on that movie. It was taking well,
like you said, that movie was in production when you
went over to start Aliens, and when you finished Aliens,
(44:06):
it was still in production.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
Yeah, And Aliens was released in theaters and it was
still in production.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
What's see, I was just watching it just popped up
on my feet. It was Gary Oldman talking about how
Harvey Kitel just walked out of Eyes Wide Shut because
Stanley Kubrick was making him do the takes so many
times that he was just like, fuck this, I'm out
of here.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Oh he went in to watch him shoot.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
Or he was just telling the story. I don't know
where Gary Oldman was at the time, but yeah, I
just saw I'm talking about how Harvey Titel was in
y Shut and yeah, he was playing Sidney Pollock's role
and they were doing the scene and just walking through
a door. That's just what the scene was. And after
the sixty eighth take, Harvey Titel just that I'm out
of here. You're fucking crazy.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well he's known for for uh doing
massive amount of takes. And I know I always had
the feeling that sometimes, you know, and anyway, I Jim
(45:17):
after I watched Passive Glory, I thought, you know, I'm
gonna I want to you know, I want to give
you know, I want to take a look at you know.
I started saying to myself, this bias against him and
his movies. It's just silly and stupid. And uh, you know,
(45:38):
your friend Timmy got hurt. But uh uh, what's the
the movie that he did with Ryan O'Neill called Barry Lindon.
Barry Lindon. So I I started watching Barry Lindon and well,
(45:59):
all this movie's are beautiful. I mean, boy, that's a
beautiful movie as far as like where they shot it,
and how like the production value and like, you know,
the soldiers, it'd have like four hundred of them, like marching,
and it's just absolutely extraordinary. Now. I fell asleep watching
(46:21):
it last night. It's a long movie. It's two hours
and twenty minutes or two hours and thirty minutes, but
I I really really was enjoying that.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
It's clost to three hours long. Actually is it one
hundred and eighty five minutes?
Speaker 3 (46:40):
One hundred and eighty five minutes, right, But it's you know,
the the the production value and the costumes and the
locations are just I don't know where he shot it.
Try to figure out, probably somewhere in England, because.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
He never liked Yeah, yeah he did shoot English.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
It was but beautiful, absolutely gorgeous, gorgeous locations. And you know, Jim, well.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
You remember that. I mean when the movie came out,
one of the big things that people talked about was
how he the interiors he shot with ambient light, Yes,
camp camp and how and yeah and candles and how
you know, impressive that was. I think he might have
(47:27):
used steady cam for the first time in some of
the shots in that movie.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
Well, Jim, it looked like he was using a steady cam.
Uh And I didn't even know it wasn't a steady
camp But I don't know how I do it. It did it?
But passive glory, you know, he follows Kirk Douglas.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Like a long ways trenches. Yeah, that's just a tracking
shot through the trenches.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
So that yeah, So so I guess in the middle
of the trenches it looked like there was they didn't
look like tracks, but it just didn't look like dirt.
So he was on that was before steady cam, So
(48:13):
he was on a camera that that was on. And
I mean because he would he would be in front
of Kirk Douglas. Kirk Douglas would be walking right and
for you know, like ten seconds or twelve seconds. Yeah,
So the only way you can do that is having
(48:33):
tracks that you can't really see and be and so
that that that right down the middle of the trench.
There was always kind of a line and that must
have been our two lines and that must have been
like where they put the camera and all that, because
that was that was before.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Yeah, it was still too. It wasn't like handheld.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
I worked with this.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
This is interesting too. Filming actually took place in Ireland
and during the most intense years of the troubles, which
was like the conflict that was going on in ira
and yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
Yeah, uh jim what uh f? And war was that anyway?
It wasn't what who who were the English fighting? It
wasn't Germany. It was you know in the movie Barry Lyndon.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
I think the French?
Speaker 3 (49:25):
I know, but what what what do they call that?
I didn't even like My history is so horrible that
I didn't even know that was a war back in
the like what is it late eighteen hundreds? Was that?
Speaker 1 (49:38):
Is it going to be? I think it takes place
in the seventeen.
Speaker 3 (49:42):
Hundred seventeen hundreds, okay, okay? And what do they have
a name for that war? Is it just you know,
because they were a number Seven years War, the Seven
Years War right right right? And who was on who side?
(50:02):
I'm gonna am? I putting you on this spot here.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Well, yeah, I'm really reaching back. I think I think
the Prussians were involved in it, and it was it was.
Speaker 3 (50:17):
I was just, I was just because as I was
watching the movie, I noticed the French were fighting with
the English and the you know, and I but anyway,
I I didn't know any didn't didn't know anything about that,
anything about that at all.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
So just on quick Google search says, great bit, Great Britain, Prussia,
Hanover and their allies fought against France, Austria, Sweden, Saxony,
Russia and eventually Spain.
Speaker 3 (50:47):
Who won? Who won that? They're all still around except
for what did you? Your name one? What was the
third one? The name is and Over? Okay, I'm not
that familiar with that country.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
That's part of Germany.
Speaker 3 (51:01):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
It looked like Great Britain and its allies, including Prussia,
were the victors.
Speaker 3 (51:06):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
The war resulted in significant territorial gains for Britain, particularly
in North America and India, and solidified its position as
a leading global power. Well, France and Spain were among
the losers, seeding territories and losing influence.
Speaker 3 (51:25):
Okay, Well, I I had you know, I was really
enjoying it. I just thought that just every cubric started
out as a phtographer, Life Magazine, Correct.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
Magazine, but he just yeah, he did start off as
a still photographer.
Speaker 3 (51:43):
Yeah, And so his movies have always looked like brilliant.
They've just always looked.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Oh yeah, and he's always been very meticulous about how
they got released too. I mean he would, he would
be so maniacal about it, as you know, almost checking
every print that went out to make sure that it was,
you know, to his standards.
Speaker 3 (52:06):
When I watched the movie, yeah, you know, I'm not
a big fan of Ryan O'Neill.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
Well, I was gonna say. I mean, I saw the
movie once when it came out. I've never I've seen
bits and pieces of it since. But I didn't like it.
And I think the problem was I didn't care for
Ryan O'Neill and I didn't care for him as an
actor before I ever met the guy, and a few
times I had to deal with him, I liked him
even less. So the few times I was around him
(52:39):
or dealt with him, I thought he was a complete
and utter asshole. And I'll say that, you know, unhesitatingly.
And I thought he was basically no talent. I can't
think of a single movie where I wasn't aware that
it was a dumb actor, you know, in this in
this part and not.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
So. He had done Love Story before this.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
Correct, he had done he had done Love Story. He
had done a couple of those Bogdanovic movies like What's
Up Doc? And uh, you know he he had done
basically Love Story, What's Doc? Some of the main event
that Barbara streikes in movie Okay.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
You've done that? He did that after Barry Lindon.
Speaker 3 (53:28):
Yeah, after Barry what did before? He looked he looks
very young. He looks very.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Barry Lindon is his eighth credit. The ones before that,
starting from his first movies The Big Bounce, The Games,
Love Story, Wild Rovers, What's Up Doc, The Thief Who
Came to Dinner, and Paper Moon.
Speaker 3 (53:48):
Okay and any paper actually in Paper Moon. I enjoyed
him quite a bit. I really liked him quite a bit.
And uh I actually worked with Tatum uh years years
ago and uh uh. One of the interesting things about
(54:10):
Ryan is that he named his son one of his
one of his children, he named Redmond.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
After the character in Barry Lyndon.
Speaker 3 (54:20):
After the character in Barry Barry Lyndon. And I don't
think that you have to try very hard to understand
that that family was just and and and and Redmond
(54:40):
was just fucked up man. They were just fucked up family.
I mean, I remember when he punched Redmond, knocked his
teeth out. Uh uh you know that was a that
was a how was that? That guy was uh just
(55:01):
not a very Yeah. And he did a lot of blow.
You know, I knew his drug dealer. He knew he
did a lot of blow. Him and Pharah Fawcet, and
I remember when Pharaoh was dying and he kind of
like one that wanted to be with her even though
(55:22):
they weren't together anymore, and she was dying and he
seemed to kind of I don't know, I don't know,
but I know that his children all ended up. Uh yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
Wikipedia page. Apparently in seven he was arrested for shooting
at his son, Griffin, and then.
Speaker 3 (55:45):
He refused Griffin.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
He was rested for shooting at Griffin, which he claimed
self defense. The charges were dropped, and then he refused
to allow Griffin to attend Fawcett's funeral.
Speaker 3 (55:56):
Whose funeral, Uh, Fawcetts. Oh fair Foster, well he I
don't think that he should have. He ended up like
burying himself right next to he or too as if
like this was you know, I I uh, you know,
I just I it just sounds like I believe I
(56:21):
believe that. Uh Coppola, Yeah, I had a son, Griffin. Yeah,
it was a griffin who was in the Griffin.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
Was driving a boat that got in an accident and
killed Coppola's son, Geane Carlo. And this is when they
were filming in Gardens of Stone. When Copla was filming
Gardens of Stone, that moved calm about a marine at
h at who works at Arlington National Cemetery. That's what
(56:55):
the Gardens of Stone refers to.
Speaker 3 (56:57):
Uh yeah, that was that was just uh a real
bad deal, A real bad deal. And I've always heard
it's hard for me to even imagine being jealous. It
just it's just shocking to me that you, like, just
(57:18):
me as a person. You know, if my if Alex,
for instance, all of a sudden started working as an actor,
and boom he kind of a movie series, and boom
he got nominated for an Academy Award, and boom he
won an Academy Award, Like there wouldn't be like the
tiniest bit of me that would go like fuck that,
(57:39):
why that? How come that didn't happen to me? And
you know, according to Lore, he was always kind of
pissed off that Tatum won the Academy Award for Paper
Moon and and not him. Now that that might not
be true. Uh, Tatum was very quiet and sort of secretive.
(58:05):
When I worked with her. She she she was there,
she she worked hard. She uh, she played a role,
she knew her line, she was there on time. She uh,
but uh not real social. And gee, that was a
movie that I've always said that had had like, uh, what's
(58:28):
the name of the director. There's a woman director, and
that used to be a like a big, big.
Speaker 2 (58:33):
Actress and Donnie Stevens.
Speaker 3 (58:36):
Connie Stevens directed that. She had a first a d
who was a woman. It was about uh, a woman
who had two little girls. And uh, Jennifer was there,
and you know, you know, I was used to doing
(58:58):
fucking Navy seals and fucking working with Bill Paxton and
doing uh all the cadets at the Citadel and just
all men, men, men, and this this movie was just
all women, women, women, and it was just fucking and
for me, it was kind of like fucking nightmare. There's
(59:18):
like too many fucking women in the fucking I never
thought I would say that. And you know, all of
them individually were and a really good actress was in that. Uh.
She'd work with de Niro and uh, she'd been built.
She'd be built like second or third. I would think
behind Tatum and myself, Miller, Penelope and Miller penelopean Miller
(59:43):
was really really good. And what a dedicated actress she is.
She she she after she wrapped, she went, I think
straight to the airport and we were we were still
shooting the scene that they shot her out or whatever.
(01:00:05):
We're still shooting a scene. And uh, she used to
do something with the little girls. Uh, and the girls
were like ten or something like that, and you know,
we'd be they would be doing close ups of the
little girls and she would like slap her hands like that,
(01:00:27):
so the so the girls would look over at her.
So the editor at one point can go like, oh,
they looked over, so we'll cut to her, you know that.
And she was God bless her. She she she was
at the airport, you know, calling me saying, you know,
(01:00:50):
have them do this, and have them do that, have
them do this sort of crazy anyway, she.
Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Was, she was terrific. Carlito's way, Oh yeah, she's That's
a great movie.
Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
Who directed that? Gym? Is that?
Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
DEPAULM?
Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
DePaul? Yeah, the best movie as far as I'm concerned. Listen,
we've come to the end of our hour, so we're
gonna stop and.
Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Pick it up on Thursday.
Speaker 3 (01:01:21):
We'll pick it up on We'll pick it up on Thursday.
And Uh, I just want to thank everybody who is listening. Uh,
we're having a good time doing this. We appreciate your
comments and it kind of gives me an idea of
the direction of what you want to uh talk about.
Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
I had and that we appreciate the comments because they
do give us things to talk about, and we will
be addressing, you know, most of them in the upcoming.
Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
We'll get the Navy seals and K two.
Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
Eventually we've already touched on them. Lords of Discipline will
have to talk about someday too, Uh in greater detail.
Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
Oh you know, I you know, I figured if if
we ever run out of anything to talk about, let's
just go, like, look at my IMDb page. Pick one
of them, and you know I'll have an hour at
least on it, you know, because nothing nothing to kick one, Yeah, nothing.
(01:02:28):
There's there's a lot of stories behind most of them,
all right, So we'll see everybody on our We'll.
Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
Be back, We will be back.
Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
Well, I'll be back. I will be back. You know
that story, right? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
Yeah, we did let a strange pig show which hand
would you choose? The way.
Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
You look? Someone?
Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Are you?
Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
Thank you undering me?
Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
Want to let me carry on without shoes?
Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
Won't you like to set job
I have declared war against my brain in order to say.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
That won's don't seem to so long as so long
as I know.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
They will be time stop.
Speaker 3 (00:17):
I don't have to Jim.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I'm well yourself.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
I'm pretty good.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Pretty good for Monday morning.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
I don't know what the hell that was, but that's.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
That's the Mama's in the poppet. Wow.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Whenever you're saying anything, it's a little bit like me saying.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
We're not recording.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
Yeah, yeah, we are recording. So yeah. Since since we're starting, Jim,
I thought that we'd like throw out, you know, the
conversation for the hour, and I wanted to talk to
you and get your perspective on the different episodes, the characters,
(01:11):
and the success of the TV show Squid Games.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
Oh yeah, I'm fully prepared to discuss that. All right,
we got a more serious That's one of those things
that somebody's going to have to explain to me one
of these days. What little I've seen of it has
no appeal to me whatsoever. Maybe I'm missing something.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
I think that's because you're seventy something and you're not
seven or eight years old.
Speaker 1 (01:50):
That's true too.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
I watch it.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
You do like it.
Speaker 2 (01:54):
Yeah, it's fun, all right.
Speaker 3 (01:57):
Well, I watched an episode of Last Seasons, which was
about five years ago, a long time ago, and there
must have been a lot of legal somebody, somebody all
of a sudden was making billions of dollars and they
didn't know who. But it was a long time in
(02:18):
between the first and second episode, even even longer than
Stranger Things, which from what I understand now is coming out.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
I don't know if it was that long. I mean,
the first season came out and then I think season two.
Speaker 3 (02:29):
This is season two, right, No, this is season three
of Squid Games. Yeah, okay, I'm gonna I just wanted
to just start the podcast off because Michael Mattson died
a few days ago, and I I didn't know Michael
(02:56):
very well. I've run into him a few times, and uh,
I've spoken with him a few times, and we've we've
laughed about the fact that we both had a lot
in common, uh, being that you know, he was kind
(03:21):
of a Quentin Tarantino guy. I was kind of a
Jim Cameron guy. H. He has been in some absolutely
terrible ship and so have I, and uh, you know, uh,
he's been married. I think he was married three times,
maybe twice or three times. I've been married three times.
(03:46):
And uh, he has six children or seven had six,
well he still has and whatever six or seven children
and I have five boys, and so oh oh yeah.
And I think that Michael used to used to drink
(04:07):
a little bit, and so so did I back in
the day. But I I didn't really know Michael very well.
I enjoyed the time that I did spend with him,
and every single person that I know that has ever
(04:34):
worked with him really really liked him. And there were
times when people said, well, you know, he might have
been drinking while he was doing this show or that one,
but he was great. People really really liked him, and
(04:54):
I I've always I always had a very nice experience
with him. Like I said, I thought we had a
lot in common. We I'll tell you who was very
very close to him and I was with him. Well,
I was talking to Rico. Rico Simonini is the doctor
(05:16):
who we've had on the podcast, and I hope we
can get him back on soon.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
Yeah, we talked about having him on multiple times.
Speaker 3 (05:23):
Yeah, I was sitt into something. When medical comes up, well,
you know, call him in a heartbeat, heartbeat.
Speaker 1 (05:33):
He's the guy to call cardiology.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Yeah, but I know that Rico was very close to
him and Jennifer's my wife's family was they knew Michael
pretty well. And I know Jennifer's mother and her stepfather
(05:56):
liked him a lot. They dealt with him in in
a business capacity, and they really really liked him. They
you know, they knew that he had some issues, but
they really really liked him. I've actually never heard anybody
say anything negative about Well. I had one person I
(06:22):
was sitting next to you that seemed to be frustrated
that he felt like he wasn't prepared once. But I
wanted to read this because Rico, it's not only a
great doctor. I think he was a little bit of
(06:44):
a support system for Michael. I know that when Michael's
son committed suicide, what would that have been about a
year ago? Over a year ago, and he was having
trouble with that and having trouble getting to the funeral,
and just it was just a bad, bad obviously a
(07:07):
lot horrific, horrific time for.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
I'd forgotten about that. Yeah, but he had a son
who committed suicide.
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Yeah, he was in the army. It was over he
was in I think the Army, and he was in Hawaii,
and uh, you know, he called his dad a couple
of times and right or texted, Yeah, texted his dad
Michael a number of times right before he committed suicide.
(07:38):
And like, I don't think Michael ever saw it coming,
because Michael I was talked about the fact that I
think that Michael's son, the one who committed suicide, and
his wife for trying to have a baby, and it
looked like that wasn't going to work out because he
(07:59):
didn't have have the means to make her pregnant sperm.
You know, I don't know what it was, but I
think that Michael was trying to help his son in
that situation. And I know his son wasn't happy with
being in the military and it really kind of wanted out.
I don't know what happens when you're in the military
(08:21):
and you just want to go.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
Generally you can get out. I mean, it's not a ward.
We're not in war time right now, and if you're
just really psychologically unfit for it, the military will generally
usher you out rather than keep a troublemaker around her,
keep someone who's you know, I'm not willing to serve.
I'll get him out well for the most.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Part, anyway. Maybe I'm sure there's there were.
Speaker 1 (08:48):
All sorts of obviously, lots of things going on there.
Speaker 3 (08:51):
I just wanted to read what Rico wrote because Rico
knew him quite well and was a good friend of his,
and when his son committed suicide, I was talking to
Rico a year ago or a year and a half ago,
whenever that happened, trying to I was trying to express
(09:12):
to Rico as much as I could that, you know,
he could not help Michael at that time. You know,
he seemed to be frustrated that he was unable to
reach him, help him. You have a good friend that
(09:32):
he's just like, yeah, yeah, just and so I remember
talking to Rico for a while. This is what Rico wrote.
I had the privilege to be his real friend, doctor Guardian,
Guardian Angel, who got to work with him on screen
(09:54):
and have late night discussions with him about life, death
and the narrow space in between. He was a tragic
poet on and in inevitable trajectory despite our love and Cissy,
(10:20):
you can explain to me what that is. Efforts like
I think no matter how hard they tried, it didn't
like it, you know.
Speaker 1 (10:28):
Or it comes from the myth of Sisyphus the Greek.
The Greek. Yeah, the Greek rolling the ball, rolling the
rock up the hill and never getting to the top.
It's just kind of fruitless effort.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
Uh, when I get to that world, I'll let you say,
jam it was with me. He was a tragic poet
on an inevitable trajectory, despite our love and what efforts
to save him. As Michael never recovered from the death
(11:04):
of his son and was tortured by the ghosts of
his life traumas for what she punished himself. You're freebody
fly so quite touching.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, that's is there is there any information on his
cause of death? He was what only thirty seven?
Speaker 3 (11:24):
I think heart attack?
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Is that right?
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Yeah? But wow, you know Michael was uh had he
not been go ahead, had not been well at all
since his son died, and and even before that he
had not been well.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
I was wondering if he saw any similarities in his
career and his sort of you know, demise, unfortunate passing
and Tom Sizemore.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Well, you know, it's interesting because between him and vow
and Tommy size More. You know, those are three guys.
I think all three of them are a year or
two younger than me. But you know, I was around
uh Tommy, uh and and we were around each other.
(12:19):
We did a movie that Nick Vallealonga was in it,
and uh, when I was separated from Caitlin's mother, I
was kind of hanging out with Patsy Kensitt down in
Santa Monica and I had a house down in Santa Monica,
(12:42):
and I, uh, you know, I I you know, I
was kind of enjoying myself down there, and I Matt
Craven brought over Tommy Sizemore, and I had you know,
(13:05):
I knew Matt and Matt and I had worked a
lot together, and uh, Tommy I'd never met before, but
you know, tell me it was kind of one of
those guys that, you know, he showed up, he had
a presency, he had a very interesting combat kind of
a thing going on, and uh, I can remember offering
(13:25):
him a drink and he said, now, no, I don't
want to drink. And uh, I think that I said
something along the lines of of are you like sober
or you like don't drink or it's like, oh no, no, no, no,
(13:46):
I just I just don't feel like a drink. And
it was something about that. Ever since then, I was
was always a big cool question mark in my mind
about tom And of course Tommy went on to like
just be like one of the worst addicts in the
(14:08):
history of my being around a lot of addicts and
a lot of actors and singers, and like, I've never
known anybody who struggled as much as he did. We
were doing I did a show with him that Nick
had a longer directed, and Nick told me that he
(14:31):
was going to hire him, and I said, I, Nick,
I don't, I don't think that's a very good idea.
You know, I know he's a a wonderful actor, but
I think it's you know, we've got to be careful
and Nick, well, you know Nick Nick does his own thing, obviously,
so Nick Nick. Now this was after Tommy had already
(14:59):
come out with his He had a tape that somebody
either he taped himself or he had like other people
or other people taping him without knowing it, but it
was him and like three hookers, and it was just
(15:19):
very almost disturb.
Speaker 1 (15:21):
Me hanging around with quite a bit.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
Well, this was after Heidi Flies. Okay, I mean I
think he married Heidi Flies. Yeah, that was this. This
is later he was he was really messed up in
this in this in this video, and he had like
something I'd never even seen before. I don't even know
what it is. It's like something like like a glove
(15:45):
that you wrap around your cock and kind of jerk
jerk helps jerk get it hard. I don't think the
guy was ever ever had a heart on in this
porn video, which you know, uh so, but it was
you know, this was after that that Nick wanted to
(16:06):
hire him, and he's obviously like hammered and with the
booze and the math I think the math boy, that math,
the drug man, that just really sucks up a lot
of people. And I think both him and Heidi were
big myth freaks and that and the porn video was
(16:28):
just like like like how did this get out? Why
did I watch this? You know, it's just really really disgusting.
What do you call that word when you enjoy the.
Speaker 1 (16:41):
The the horrible misfortunes of others? Yeah, the Germans come
up with an expression that.
Speaker 3 (16:51):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Mine can go into overdrive sometimes.
Speaker 3 (16:55):
I watched it with Jennifer, I think, and I guess
we laughed at it and just up like this is
this is absolutely this is insane. But what happened was
he says, next sitting, well, I only need him for
a couple of days. So we actually had a rehearsal
day or two in that movie, and he was there
(17:19):
for the rehearsal and he was fucking high. You know.
I was like, you can't fool a fucking another attic
made just like, you know, he could fool Nick, he
could fool a lot of people, but I knew he
was fucking high, and uh. And we rehearsed, and then
(17:40):
he caught up with me outside and started talking to me,
and you know, spent ten minutes basically saying how sober
he was, and he was obviously fucking high. I knew
he was high, but I'm not going to be like, oh,
don't give me your shit, you know, like I don't.
I didn't know him, you know, well enough to I
(18:03):
just you know, he kind of ran after me, said
let me know that how sober he was, and he
was in Now, if you were just on the street
and he was buying a sandwich from you at a
club or maybe even working or something like that. You
wouldn't you wouldn't know that he was high. But like
(18:24):
I said, I I'm I have a little bit more
experience in that field than most people. And he was
just fucking high and uh and he spent you know,
most of that time talking to me about not being high.
And what happened was, you know, this is just typical time.
(18:45):
Tommy size for who was a wonderful actor in a
lot of stuff, and people like de Niro really tried
to help him.
Speaker 1 (18:58):
Oh, I know DeNiro did when they were doing.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
He Yeah, there there were there were people from all
you know, all his movies and Walks of Life that
really trying to help him get off stuff because he
was he was such a great actor. He was so
talented Saving Private Ryan. If you watch him in Saving
(19:20):
Private Ryan, he's like fucking phenomenal in that movie. You
know one of these Uh, where was it that I said, like,
I'm going to do a Tommy size more here. It
was I was doing another Walking Dead and I get shot.
(19:41):
I get shot in the Walking Dead and I said,
I'm going to do a Tommy size more here. So
when I get shot, I'm going to act more irritated
than hurt, and that's what Tommy kind of does.
Speaker 2 (19:55):
And uh, that's see. You didn't Saving five Ryan when
he get shot in the leg. Yeah, oh god, damn,
he throws his gun at the.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Yeah, it's not the pain. It's not anguished. It's frustration,
you know, it's like, you know, bad, you know, and
it's just it's a great acting choice. Really.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
I remember watching Private Ryan not too long ago, thinking
if fliesmore was loaded when he was doing this. He
he did a very good job, because he really is
in that movie. You can tell how demanding it was
on him too.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Well. First of all, he had already had the reputation,
and Spielberg made him piss in a fucking bottle every
fucking day. And they said to him, if this ever
comes back positive, well replace you.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
Yeah you get killed in the next scene.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Yeah exactly, or something along those lines. But he was,
he was, he was. He was pinging in a bottle,
which which he'll keep you sober for a while, that's
for sure, especially when you're working with spear. But he was.
He was awfully, awfully good in that movie. And so anyway,
(21:08):
so so so he had two days of work on
the show that I did that that Nick directed, and
I've forgotten which one it was, but you could look
it up and see that we're both in it. And
so he was like in a nightclub, a lot of
(21:32):
girls around. He was playing some sort of like boss
or something, you know, like gangster boss or something. And
it might have been is he in stileto? Okay, well
there you go. Yeah, it was still ato. And uh So, anyway,
I wasn't there because I wasn't working. So he's he
(21:53):
basically is in a nightclub. He's got a bunch of
girls around, He's got some lines in that thing. And
then he was kinda you know, I you know he
obviously I knew he was high, no matter what. But
I knew he was high. But but uh so, anyway,
you know, they got the day and they were like, okay,
(22:14):
well we've gotten it, you know. And uh it wasn't
like I was talking to Nick saying, oh, I guess
I was wrong. It wasn't because I wasn't around. But
that night he got busted in Fresno for cocaine possession
(22:38):
or or speed you know whatever, got thrown in jail.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
Yeah, I didn't know he was. I didn't know you
were working on a movie with him. I remember the bus.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Yeah yeah, yeah, Well it was in between the you know,
he did one day of work and then the next
day of work was supposed to be his second day
of work, and then he would have been done. But
for some reason, he was up in Fresno scoring fucking
speed or or whatever, and Nick and the production had
(23:13):
to go up there and bail him out and you know,
do whatever it took to get him back so he
could do the other part of his scene. And I
don't you know, I'm not you know. Nick vall Along
was nominated for two or one two again one two
(23:33):
Academy Awards for Green Book and uh uh this was
not one of his better pictures. But that's that was.
That was Tommy size more. But you know, uh I
I I just thought that we should.
Speaker 2 (23:57):
I actually met Tom Sizemore one time, you did. We
came in to do the Adam Kroller Show.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Was hi.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Uh well, so he had already done like celebrity Rehab
with Doctor Drew, so he kind of like knew he
was kind of Adam was aware of whatever, but he
so the way Adams Show worked was a radio format
so he Adam will kind of do the first half
of the show, and then it was like four parts,
so the third part was the guest interview. So he
kind of came in like right on time, right when
we were about to start the guest interview, and then
(24:26):
he went, well, I got to go to the bathroom,
all right, And so he went to the bathroom and
he was in there for a very long time and
we were all, which is wait, we wait. He was
in there for a very long time and he comes
out of the bathroom and he's covered sweat in.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
Baby powder and baby powder.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
When we had baby powder in the bathroom. But he's
just it's all over him. It's all over him, and
we were like, that's weird, but okay, whatever, we do
the interview. Fine. I didn't notice anything. He seemed fine, whatever,
go home. Get a call from my producer at like
seven at night, going Tom Seizemore left something at the
(25:06):
studio you need to go to the studio and unlock
it for him. So at like seven at night, I
drove to the studio and I and I unlocked the
studio for him, and he ran to the bathroom and
then he came out and then me and him, just
me and him just share to cigarette. We were just talking.
He didn't seem high, but that.
Speaker 3 (25:24):
So he left something and he left his drugs in there.
Yeah yeah, yeah, Well we all have our demons and
had our demons and uh so yeah, between Val and
(25:45):
Michael and tom Right and Tommy, you know, that's that's sorry.
Guys who really sort of did a did a lot
of a lot of good work. You know. One of
the things that they talk about with Michael Matts and
is how you know how dangerous he was? And one
(26:08):
of the movies that for some reason, when I'm reading
the Old Bitch his obituary and you know, people are
obviously it's online, it's everywhere, and they talk about him
and stuff. He did a movie that was successful, and
I think they did a second one where he was
(26:29):
like the friend of like a whale or something. Do
you know what I'm talking about, Jim, No, free Willie?
Was it called free Willie? For sure? Who directed that?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
Calin Simon windsor Okay?
Speaker 3 (26:44):
Well that did they do a second one? Yeah? Yeah,
that was very successful and popular. Yeah, so you know,
never do never do movies with animals or children in
our animals. But I guess if if it's a whale,
you're you're better off. But that was that was not
(27:06):
Michael obviously, that was not Michael Mann, you know, dancing
around with a stiletto in his hand and being dangerous and.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Made one hundred and fifty three million dollars on a
twenty million dollar budget.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
There you go, there you go. So anyway, I don't
know really what else to say about what you.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
Were saying that, you know, we would kind of picture
him as this ominous and threatening force in in movies.
In movies obviously, like like Reservoir Dogs and the remake
of The Getaway, and but he was very touching. I
thought he was very touching. In Thelman Louise, he played
(27:56):
I think Teena Davis's husband. I thought he was really
he played one of the women's husband. I thought he
was really quite affecting in that movie.
Speaker 3 (28:05):
So yeah, one of the interesting things about Michael's career,
and this is what people go, like, fucking career should
have been this, you know, like whatever, But Quentin Tarantino
(28:28):
wanted to use him. He offered him the role and
wanted him to play the role that John Travolta played
in what's the name of that movie in pulp fiction. Yeah,
that was he was the very the first choice. And
(28:50):
do you know why he couldn't do it, Jim, No, Yeah,
he was doing Kevin Costner's wyat And really who did
he play in that? Did he play one of the
ir brothers? I think he did, think, Yeah, that's why
he couldn't be uh in in in that movie. But
(29:13):
that was according to Virgil Virgil, Yeah, Virgil, And uh,
according to what I've I've I've I've heard Quinton talk
about this before and I've never heard Michael talk about it.
But uh, I I you know, I you know, there
(29:36):
we go, you kind of getting to an age now
it's like, oh, this one's gone, that one's gone, this
one's gone. I'm like, uh, they're all a little bit
younger than me, and you know, I was like, oh boy. Uh. Anyway,
(29:57):
I wanted uh to talk a little bit, Jim to
you about the fact that I have one of my
boys is Alex Alexander, and Alex came to come stay
in America. He wants to live in America, and uh,
(30:18):
he has kind of a two pronged like like like
things that he wants to do. One is that he
wants to He's always wanted to be an actor. I mean,
I've always been behind that because I've always had a
very very good experience and I think that if he's
(30:39):
a good looking kid, and from what I've seen him
doing on stage and stuff.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
I'm going to say, you've seen some stage working goods,
haven't you.
Speaker 3 (30:47):
Yeah, And I've always thought he was really good. So
I thought, you know, I don't think it would hurt
to have my last name and you know, uh and
being Alex, Yeah exactly, you know. And so he so
(31:11):
he's in town now and he's, like I said, got
this too.
Speaker 2 (31:18):
He was in England. He spent he spent his years
growing up in England, went to school out there for acting.
Now he's back and.
Speaker 3 (31:24):
Yeah, and he I think he left twenty he was
about twelve, and then he graduated from college and now
now he's staying with me. He must be an actor.
But he also has got a real talent for being
a first responder and is an EMT over in England.
It's only twenty two and you know, writing around on
(31:45):
ambulance is saving people and so but when he comes
over to America, he has to you know, he has
to be verified in sure, thank you, certified in America
the same way that he was over in England. So
he came over here, he took some courses and they
(32:07):
just make him jump through a bunch of hoops and
so on and so forth. So at the same time too,
he wants to put a little real together and uh,
you know, do some acting stuff. And we were talking
about it and I said, well, you know he's got
he can do. You know, he can do a wonderful
(32:28):
English like all sorts of English accents that the one
they used for Shakespeare when the Queen does the Cockney accent.
I think he can do an Australian accent. So he's
very very good with accents. And we were talking a
couple of days ago and he was like looking for
(32:50):
material and he you know, he had a couple of
ideas for material that he would do. Because I've got
somebody some people have come out and shot me for
documentaries before, like, you know, if there's anything we can
do for it. Plus I have a lot of friends,
and I know a lot of people have got cameras,
and people who've got cameras they like using them. Hey
(33:12):
could you come out and shoot, yes, yes, you know,
they just they like using them. They like their filmmakers
and even if they're not getting paid a lot of money,
they they like they like filming. And Uh so we
were I was looking around for material, uh for him.
Uh and Jim, you mentioned to me the Bruce Beresford.
(33:38):
Uh is that is that the director who did Is
that the one that you mentioned to me about the
Isn't it is he? Who's Beresford?
Speaker 1 (33:53):
Who was one of those Australian directors you know who
came over here. Uh, Peter Weird, George Miller, the guy
who directed Rogued Warrior, and Beresford came over. And the
movie that we were talking about is called Breaker Morand
(34:14):
which came out in I think about nineteen eighty, which
has certain similarities to the Stanley Kubrick classic movie Paths
of Glory because it's about three soldiers on trial on court,
being court martialed by their own army, with the very
strong possibility that they're going to get executed in fact,
two of them. Oh, it's kind of a courtroom drama
(34:40):
with cutaways to the events that lead up to that
courtroom drama. Very very powerful movie. Ed Woodward stars in it.
Brian Brown has a great part in it as.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Well, nominated for Best Adapted Screenplay too.
Speaker 1 (34:55):
And it's got some great speeches and being a courtroom drama,
it's got some great speeches in it, kind of like
you know, a few good men. You know, it's got
some moments like you can't handle the truth. It's it's
I think it's got some great stuff in it. Uh
that was one that I suggested, So you know, there
there are plenty of others around.
Speaker 3 (35:16):
For sure, but uh, well, I was, you know, I
was uh uh.
Speaker 1 (35:22):
I thought not long ago again, what Bakker? Yeah, last
in the last six months or so.
Speaker 3 (35:28):
Well, I was looking for like World War two movies,
and I was looking for speeches and that kind of stuff.
And you mentioned Breaker Morano. Man, I thought, like, god,
it's a great movie. I haven't seen it a long time,
so I'm gonna, I'm gonna go. I'm gonna, I'm gonna
watch it. And I did, and you know it, it's
(35:49):
a wonderful movie. And it uh uh it, this is
all gonna surprise you, Jim, because you haven't heard any
of this. H but it I watched it and I
thought this is really good. At the end, uh, there
is a member of the service who gives a closing argument,
(36:16):
a guy who was like their commander and gives like
a no noise. A lawyer comes in.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
From the defense counsel.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
He's their defense counsel, and he gives he gives a
final summation, and it's good. I mean, it's just really
really good, you know. And I was, you know, before
that I'd taken a quick look at Inherit the Wind
because of you know, all the straight stuff and that.
But I I I so I said to him, well,
(36:48):
you check out Kamrant. I think it, you know. And
then I watched it and I told him today was
this morning or yesterday? I I said to him, there's
another movie you might want to watch, and that's Passive
Glory and Pathsive Glory, of course, is Stanley Kubrick's movie.
(37:12):
And I, as much as I, you know, have a
personal problem with the way that he treated Timmy and
the way that he treats actors and all that sort
of stuff. You know, I've I'm kind of done with
the whole you know, I'm boycotting Stanley Kubrick, you know.
(37:32):
And so I I watched Paths of Glory yesterday also,
and Paths of Glory is Kirk Douglas starring. And that
guy by the name of Ralph Meeker. I don't know
if you remember him very well, Jim.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
But yeah I do. And remember, you know, Clenton Tarantino
was a huge fan of Ralph Meeker's.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
Yeah, he talked.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
About him quite a bit too. Yeah, Ralph. Ralph Meeker
was in a ton of movies in the in the
fifties and sixties. Yeah, and you'd recognize him from like
cop movies or war movies, et cetera. And he's he's
especially good in this movie, I think.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Yeah. So Paths of Glory is got some just absolutely
wonderful stuff in it, all the way around, the fighting sequences,
the explosions, the guys trying to charge to uh. I
(38:34):
think they were trying to overcome an area called the antill.
Speaker 1 (38:40):
Yeah it was. It was in World War One in
those minefields where the two armies were like locked and yes,
where where it might take months to gain a couple
of inches. Truth, you know, they were locked in those
in those trenches, that trench warfare that was going on
in World War One, and.
Speaker 3 (38:58):
There was there was a general who got bent out
of shape, who you know, wanted to throw us weight around.
And you know, I guess back then, if you know
things didn't go your way, just say like you know, uh.
Speaker 1 (39:12):
You know who one of the screenwriters was on that movie.
Speaker 3 (39:14):
Jim Thompson.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
Jim Thompson, you know, Jim.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
I hadn't thought about that explaining who Jim Thompson is
to the.
Speaker 1 (39:24):
Well, he was basically known as a as a writer
of kind of hard boiled fiction novels like The Getaway,
The Grifters. Yeah, Pop twelve eighty, that won that book
that you liked so much that you had me read
some years ago, that actually got made into a friend
movie cause you know, called Coup de Torchon, And uh
uh you know, I mainly pictured Jim Thompson as a
(39:47):
writer of novels. I didn't know he did much screenwriting, right,
But when I saw his name in the credits for
Paz Glory, I thought, well, that kind of makes sense
in a way, you know, because Pasi Gloria is a
tough movie. It's a hard, hard movie, hardbitten movie, you
know it. Uh, It's got really a very touching and
I know I know, and that's his wife. That was
(40:09):
Kubrick's wife. He married that woman.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
Well, she was very good. Yeah, she was just very
very very good in it. And I guess she must
have been German, right, the woman that.
Speaker 1 (40:25):
He married Dutch. I believe Dutch.
Speaker 3 (40:28):
Excuse me, there's something plain, it's just my it's just
my somebody calling me. Uh yeah, I was supposed to
get back to somebody on something, and uh, I need
to do that. Here's my family member, my brother's son
wants me to do. I would do an interview with me.
(40:51):
Somebody kind of has to do with Mandalorian and I'm like,
I don't really have that, you know. But anyway, Yeah,
so I watched Passive Glory, which I believe he's black
and white, and I really it's like I've always said,
(41:16):
uh that Doctor Strange Love and Passive Glory were Kubrick's
best movies. And I didn't really well, I you know,
I didn't know that, uh that that he because of
their relationship. Uh. Kubrick went on to direct.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Uh, and well, when you look at at Kubrick's movies,
the Spartaca seemed a little out of place.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
And that's because.
Speaker 1 (41:58):
Spartakas is one of those great sword and sandal movies
that were so popular in the fifties and sixties. I
grew up on those things, and Spartacus was an especially
good one. But it was a movie that Douglas had
started directing himself and realized that he couldn't play the
lead and direct it. And he had just made Paths
of Glory with Kubrick and Stanley can you come in
(42:20):
and kind of take over? So Kubrick had nothing to
do with the development of that movie, with the screenplay,
with anything, and he came in to basically take over
when Douglas asked him too. So even though his name
is credited as a director and you do, you know,
include it in his list of movies, it's not a
Kubrick movie in the sense that Stanley was pretty much
(42:40):
involved in developing his own stories too. And when you
put you know, Paths of Glory, Lolita with James Mason
and Petersons and Doctor Strangeloved together, those are four. Those
are three pretty goddamn good movies, you know. I mean,
that's that's in some respects a high water mark for him.
He made some pretty good movie after that too. They
(43:01):
I think they kind of diminished in quality as time
went on. But god, that's a that's a good career
right there. You know, Paths of Glory, Lolita and Doctor Strangelove.
Doctor Strangelod was close to a perfect movie as I
can think of, you know, so.
Speaker 3 (43:14):
Doc Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I you know, I've
I you know, I had a a bias against tim
because Timmy was my friend. In the way that he
treated Timmy was just so outrageously psychopathic that.
Speaker 1 (43:35):
Like well, the other actors on that movie, chill. He
wasn't all that good to Matthew Modin, He wasn't that
good to Dorian here.
Speaker 3 (43:41):
What do you was kind of Yeah, he called called
Matthew a cunt throughout the.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
Probably for a month, Yeah, because Modina had gotten a
little bit pissy about the fact that they reshot every
fucking scene twenty five times. You know that all they
did were reshoots on that movie. It was taking well,
like you said, that movie was in production when you
went over to start Aliens, and when you finished Aliens,
(44:06):
it was still in production.
Speaker 3 (44:07):
Yeah, And Aliens was released in theaters and it was
still in production.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
What's see, I was just watching it just popped up
on my feet. It was Gary Oldman talking about how
Harvey Kitel just walked out of Eyes Wide Shut because
Stanley Kubrick was making him do the takes so many
times that he was just like, fuck this, I'm out
of here.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
Oh he went in to watch him shoot.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
Or he was just telling the story. I don't know
where Gary Oldman was at the time, but yeah, I
just saw I'm talking about how Harvey Titel was in
y Shut and yeah, he was playing Sidney Pollock's role
and they were doing the scene and just walking through
a door. That's just what the scene was. And after
the sixty eighth take, Harvey Titel just that I'm out
of here. You're fucking crazy.
Speaker 3 (44:53):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well he's known for for uh doing
massive amount of takes. And I know I always had
the feeling that sometimes, you know, and anyway, I Jim
(45:17):
after I watched Passive Glory, I thought, you know, I'm
gonna I want to you know, I want to give
you know, I want to take a look at you know.
I started saying to myself, this bias against him and
his movies. It's just silly and stupid. And uh, you know,
(45:38):
your friend Timmy got hurt. But uh uh, what's the
the movie that he did with Ryan O'Neill called Barry Lindon.
Barry Lindon. So I I started watching Barry Lindon and well,
(45:59):
all this movie's are beautiful. I mean, boy, that's a
beautiful movie as far as like where they shot it,
and how like the production value and like, you know,
the soldiers, it'd have like four hundred of them, like marching,
and it's just absolutely extraordinary. Now. I fell asleep watching
(46:21):
it last night. It's a long movie. It's two hours
and twenty minutes or two hours and thirty minutes, but
I I really really was enjoying that.
Speaker 2 (46:36):
It's clost to three hours long. Actually is it one
hundred and eighty five minutes?
Speaker 3 (46:40):
One hundred and eighty five minutes, right, But it's you know,
the the the production value and the costumes and the
locations are just I don't know where he shot it.
Try to figure out, probably somewhere in England, because.
Speaker 1 (46:54):
He never liked Yeah, yeah he did shoot English.
Speaker 3 (46:57):
It was but beautiful, absolutely gorgeous, gorgeous locations. And you know, Jim, well.
Speaker 1 (47:07):
You remember that. I mean when the movie came out,
one of the big things that people talked about was
how he the interiors he shot with ambient light, Yes,
camp camp and how and yeah and candles and how
you know, impressive that was. I think he might have
(47:27):
used steady cam for the first time in some of
the shots in that movie.
Speaker 3 (47:31):
Well, Jim, it looked like he was using a steady cam.
Uh And I didn't even know it wasn't a steady
camp But I don't know how I do it. It did it?
But passive glory, you know, he follows Kirk Douglas.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Like a long ways trenches. Yeah, that's just a tracking
shot through the trenches.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
So that yeah, So so I guess in the middle
of the trenches it looked like there was they didn't
look like tracks, but it just didn't look like dirt.
So he was on that was before steady cam, So
(48:13):
he was on a camera that that was on. And
I mean because he would he would be in front
of Kirk Douglas. Kirk Douglas would be walking right and
for you know, like ten seconds or twelve seconds. Yeah,
So the only way you can do that is having
(48:33):
tracks that you can't really see and be and so
that that that right down the middle of the trench.
There was always kind of a line and that must
have been our two lines and that must have been
like where they put the camera and all that, because
that was that was before.
Speaker 1 (48:51):
Yeah, it was still too. It wasn't like handheld.
Speaker 3 (48:55):
I worked with this.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
This is interesting too. Filming actually took place in Ireland
and during the most intense years of the troubles, which
was like the conflict that was going on in ira
and yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:07):
Yeah, uh jim what uh f? And war was that anyway?
It wasn't what who who were the English fighting? It
wasn't Germany. It was you know in the movie Barry Lyndon.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
I think the French?
Speaker 3 (49:25):
I know, but what what what do they call that?
I didn't even like My history is so horrible that
I didn't even know that was a war back in
the like what is it late eighteen hundreds? Was that?
Speaker 1 (49:38):
Is it going to be? I think it takes place
in the seventeen.
Speaker 3 (49:42):
Hundred seventeen hundreds, okay, okay? And what do they have
a name for that war? Is it just you know,
because they were a number Seven years War, the Seven
Years War right right right? And who was on who side?
(50:02):
I'm gonna am? I putting you on this spot here.
Speaker 1 (50:05):
Well, yeah, I'm really reaching back. I think I think
the Prussians were involved in it, and it was it was.
Speaker 3 (50:17):
I was just, I was just because as I was
watching the movie, I noticed the French were fighting with
the English and the you know, and I but anyway,
I I didn't know any didn't didn't know anything about that,
anything about that at all.
Speaker 2 (50:34):
So just on quick Google search says, great bit, Great Britain, Prussia,
Hanover and their allies fought against France, Austria, Sweden, Saxony,
Russia and eventually Spain.
Speaker 3 (50:47):
Who won? Who won that? They're all still around except
for what did you? Your name one? What was the
third one? The name is and Over? Okay, I'm not
that familiar with that country.
Speaker 1 (50:59):
That's part of Germany.
Speaker 3 (51:01):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (51:02):
It looked like Great Britain and its allies, including Prussia,
were the victors.
Speaker 3 (51:06):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (51:08):
The war resulted in significant territorial gains for Britain, particularly
in North America and India, and solidified its position as
a leading global power. Well, France and Spain were among
the losers, seeding territories and losing influence.
Speaker 3 (51:25):
Okay, Well, I I had you know, I was really
enjoying it. I just thought that just every cubric started
out as a phtographer, Life Magazine, Correct.
Speaker 1 (51:39):
Magazine, but he just yeah, he did start off as
a still photographer.
Speaker 3 (51:43):
Yeah, And so his movies have always looked like brilliant.
They've just always looked.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Oh yeah, and he's always been very meticulous about how
they got released too. I mean he would, he would
be so maniacal about it, as you know, almost checking
every print that went out to make sure that it was,
you know, to his standards.
Speaker 3 (52:06):
When I watched the movie, yeah, you know, I'm not
a big fan of Ryan O'Neill.
Speaker 1 (52:15):
Well, I was gonna say. I mean, I saw the
movie once when it came out. I've never I've seen
bits and pieces of it since. But I didn't like it.
And I think the problem was I didn't care for
Ryan O'Neill and I didn't care for him as an
actor before I ever met the guy, and a few
times I had to deal with him, I liked him
even less. So the few times I was around him
(52:39):
or dealt with him, I thought he was a complete
and utter asshole. And I'll say that, you know, unhesitatingly.
And I thought he was basically no talent. I can't
think of a single movie where I wasn't aware that
it was a dumb actor, you know, in this in
this part and not.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
So. He had done Love Story before this.
Speaker 1 (53:04):
Correct, he had done he had done Love Story. He
had done a couple of those Bogdanovic movies like What's
Up Doc? And uh, you know he he had done
basically Love Story, What's Doc? Some of the main event
that Barbara streikes in movie Okay.
Speaker 2 (53:26):
You've done that? He did that after Barry Lindon.
Speaker 3 (53:28):
Yeah, after Barry what did before? He looked he looks
very young. He looks very.
Speaker 2 (53:35):
Barry Lindon is his eighth credit. The ones before that,
starting from his first movies The Big Bounce, The Games,
Love Story, Wild Rovers, What's Up Doc, The Thief Who
Came to Dinner, and Paper Moon.
Speaker 3 (53:48):
Okay and any paper actually in Paper Moon. I enjoyed
him quite a bit. I really liked him quite a bit.
And uh I actually worked with Tatum uh years years
ago and uh uh. One of the interesting things about
(54:10):
Ryan is that he named his son one of his
one of his children, he named Redmond.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
After the character in Barry Lyndon.
Speaker 3 (54:20):
After the character in Barry Barry Lyndon. And I don't
think that you have to try very hard to understand
that that family was just and and and and Redmond
(54:40):
was just fucked up man. They were just fucked up family.
I mean, I remember when he punched Redmond, knocked his
teeth out. Uh uh you know that was a that
was a how was that? That guy was uh just
(55:01):
not a very Yeah. And he did a lot of blow.
You know, I knew his drug dealer. He knew he
did a lot of blow. Him and Pharah Fawcet, and
I remember when Pharaoh was dying and he kind of
like one that wanted to be with her even though
(55:22):
they weren't together anymore, and she was dying and he
seemed to kind of I don't know, I don't know,
but I know that his children all ended up. Uh yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:39):
Wikipedia page. Apparently in seven he was arrested for shooting
at his son, Griffin, and then.
Speaker 3 (55:45):
He refused Griffin.
Speaker 2 (55:47):
He was rested for shooting at Griffin, which he claimed
self defense. The charges were dropped, and then he refused
to allow Griffin to attend Fawcett's funeral.
Speaker 3 (55:56):
Whose funeral, Uh, Fawcetts. Oh fair Foster, well he I
don't think that he should have. He ended up like
burying himself right next to he or too as if
like this was you know, I I uh, you know,
I just I it just sounds like I believe I
(56:21):
believe that. Uh Coppola, Yeah, I had a son, Griffin. Yeah,
it was a griffin who was in the Griffin.
Speaker 1 (56:34):
Was driving a boat that got in an accident and
killed Coppola's son, Geane Carlo. And this is when they
were filming in Gardens of Stone. When Copla was filming
Gardens of Stone, that moved calm about a marine at
h at who works at Arlington National Cemetery. That's what
(56:55):
the Gardens of Stone refers to.
Speaker 3 (56:57):
Uh yeah, that was that was just uh a real
bad deal, A real bad deal. And I've always heard
it's hard for me to even imagine being jealous. It
just it's just shocking to me that you, like, just
(57:18):
me as a person. You know, if my if Alex,
for instance, all of a sudden started working as an actor,
and boom he kind of a movie series, and boom
he got nominated for an Academy Award, and boom he
won an Academy Award, Like there wouldn't be like the
tiniest bit of me that would go like fuck that,
(57:39):
why that? How come that didn't happen to me? And
you know, according to Lore, he was always kind of
pissed off that Tatum won the Academy Award for Paper
Moon and and not him. Now that that might not
be true. Uh, Tatum was very quiet and sort of secretive.
(58:05):
When I worked with her. She she she was there,
she she worked hard. She uh, she played a role,
she knew her line, she was there on time. She uh,
but uh not real social. And gee, that was a
movie that I've always said that had had like, uh, what's
(58:28):
the name of the director. There's a woman director, and
that used to be a like a big, big.
Speaker 2 (58:33):
Actress and Donnie Stevens.
Speaker 3 (58:36):
Connie Stevens directed that. She had a first a d
who was a woman. It was about uh, a woman
who had two little girls. And uh, Jennifer was there,
and you know, you know, I was used to doing
(58:58):
fucking Navy seals and fucking working with Bill Paxton and
doing uh all the cadets at the Citadel and just
all men, men, men, and this this movie was just
all women, women, women, and it was just fucking and
for me, it was kind of like fucking nightmare. There's
(59:18):
like too many fucking women in the fucking I never
thought I would say that. And you know, all of
them individually were and a really good actress was in that. Uh.
She'd work with de Niro and uh, she'd been built.
She'd be built like second or third. I would think
behind Tatum and myself, Miller, Penelope and Miller penelopean Miller
(59:43):
was really really good. And what a dedicated actress she is.
She she she after she wrapped, she went, I think
straight to the airport and we were we were still
shooting the scene that they shot her out or whatever.
(01:00:05):
We're still shooting a scene. And uh, she used to
do something with the little girls. Uh, and the girls
were like ten or something like that, and you know,
we'd be they would be doing close ups of the
little girls and she would like slap her hands like that,
(01:00:27):
so the so the girls would look over at her.
So the editor at one point can go like, oh,
they looked over, so we'll cut to her, you know that.
And she was God bless her. She she she was
at the airport, you know, calling me saying, you know,
(01:00:50):
have them do this, and have them do that, have
them do this sort of crazy anyway, she.
Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Was, she was terrific. Carlito's way, Oh yeah, she's That's
a great movie.
Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
Who directed that? Gym? Is that?
Speaker 1 (01:01:08):
DEPAULM?
Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
DePaul? Yeah, the best movie as far as I'm concerned. Listen,
we've come to the end of our hour, so we're
gonna stop and.
Speaker 2 (01:01:20):
Pick it up on Thursday.
Speaker 3 (01:01:21):
We'll pick it up on We'll pick it up on Thursday.
And Uh, I just want to thank everybody who is listening. Uh,
we're having a good time doing this. We appreciate your
comments and it kind of gives me an idea of
the direction of what you want to uh talk about.
Speaker 1 (01:01:48):
I had and that we appreciate the comments because they
do give us things to talk about, and we will
be addressing, you know, most of them in the upcoming.
Speaker 2 (01:01:57):
We'll get the Navy seals and K two.
Speaker 1 (01:01:58):
Eventually we've already touched on them. Lords of Discipline will
have to talk about someday too, Uh in greater detail.
Speaker 3 (01:02:08):
Oh you know, I you know, I figured if if
we ever run out of anything to talk about, let's
just go, like, look at my IMDb page. Pick one
of them, and you know I'll have an hour at
least on it, you know, because nothing nothing to kick one, Yeah, nothing.
(01:02:28):
There's there's a lot of stories behind most of them,
all right, So we'll see everybody on our We'll.
Speaker 1 (01:02:36):
Be back, We will be back.
Speaker 3 (01:02:38):
Well, I'll be back. I will be back. You know
that story, right? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (01:02:43):
Yeah, we did let a strange pig show which hand
would you choose? The way.
Speaker 3 (01:02:58):
You look? Someone?
Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
Are you?
Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
Thank you undering me?
Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
Want to let me carry on without shoes?
Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
Won't you like to set job
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