July 14, 2025 • 57 mins
In this week’s first episode of Just Foolin About with Michael Biehn, Michael and the gang discuss the classic movies, ‘Deliverance’ and ‘Chinatown’. They go over Jon Voight’s exceptional performance both in Deliverance and everything else he does. They also get examine the films’ production and soundtrack centered around 'Dueling Banjos.' After that they talk about the complexities of the 'Chinatown' screenplay, debating the film's themes and influential score by Jerry Goldsmith. Tune in for engaging anecdotes about Jon Voight's career, including his roles in 'Catch-22' and 'Anaconda,' and uncover little-known facts about the making of famous films like 'The Two Jakes' and John Singleton's 'Rosewood. Michael and Jim also discuss the ongoing Epstein Files drama currently surrounding the news.
YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4dHNzumLLaFOIRqm4kcaAA
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/justfoolinabout/
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Intro
04:42 Jeffrey Epstein Files
14:15 Alan Dershowitz and Reversal of Fortune
22:26 Deliverance and Jon Voight's Performance
26:07 Chinatown and Screenwriting
32:00 Deliverance Score, Budget, & “Sodomy Creek”
38:27 John Sturges and some of his Westerns
48:50 John Singleton's Rosewood and Historical Context
55:11 Upcoming Projects and Final Thoughts
YOUTUBE: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4dHNzumLLaFOIRqm4kcaAA
INSTAGRAM: https://www.instagram.com/justfoolinabout/
CHAPTERS:
00:00 Intro
04:42 Jeffrey Epstein Files
14:15 Alan Dershowitz and Reversal of Fortune
22:26 Deliverance and Jon Voight's Performance
26:07 Chinatown and Screenwriting
32:00 Deliverance Score, Budget, & “Sodomy Creek”
38:27 John Sturges and some of his Westerns
48:50 John Singleton's Rosewood and Historical Context
55:11 Upcoming Projects and Final Thoughts
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
I have declared war against my brain in order to see.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
That.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Won's don't seem to so long as so long as I.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Do, they will you wait?
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Time? Stop James, I don't have to.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Hey Jim, how are you? I'm pretty good. How are
you doing?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I'm well? I uh. I was just you know, touting
Kaitlin a minute ago or so are we recording today?
And I noticed that I had forgotten to respond to
the query a few days ago. Does ten o'clock Monday
work for everybody? And I had written a response, but
I never sent it. And in fact, what I was
(00:47):
saying was I had an eye doctor appointment today which
I postponed or rescheduled. And this is that doctor who
occasionally get me a shot in the eye. So you know,
I mean, the upside for me, I don't really know
whether we did a podcast or not. The upside for
me was I don't have to go see that doctor
who occasionally will stick me in the eye with a needle.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
The idea of having a needle stuck in your eyeball.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
There are a lot of things that sound better, you know,
a whole number of things that sound a lot better than.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
That hit the eye with a sharp stick. Literally.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I had to have a blood test done last week,
and I told the philebottomist who was taking the sample,
I said, you know, I used to say, I don't
really mind the little pain of that. I just don't
need to be watching you when you do it, you know,
so I'm gonna look away. But you don't have that
option when the doctor's going to shoot you. You can't
say I don't look away for this doctor that it
(01:45):
really is nowhere near as as as painful and totus.
I mean, because when when they first told me they
were going to have to give me a shot in
the eyeball, I had visions of clockwork orange, you know,
and malcolming down that that thing in his in his
eye holding it open. It's nothing like it is, nothing
like that. But but still I'd rather not have it done.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Why does this guy keep sticking to your eyeballs?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
He hasn't, He hasn't for a couple of years. He did, yeah,
really for a few years. But I go back and
see him every six months or so. In fact, I
haven't seen him for almost a year.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
But uh, I had a little bit of a bleeding,
a little blood vessel that was bleeding, and and the
shots tend to tend to stop the bleeding.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
And I mean, it wasn't it didn't seem to be
affecting my bision all that much, you know. I mean,
I got other things that affect my vision. I do
have to wear glasses to read. Yeah, so, uh, you know.
But but you know, they did not notice that. The
doctors noticed that when I had an exam, and this
doctor said, you know, probably wouldn't be a bad idea
to take care of this now. So I think altogether
(02:59):
I had three shot maybe two years ago, and since
then he hasn't hasn't given me a shot. But there's
always that potentiality there when I go. The last few
times he's sort of said, it's up to you, you know,
whether I have one or not. Well, doctor, but.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Why would you use instead of using the word potential potentiality.
How don't those mean exactly the same thing, potential. There's
always the potential, Well, there's always the potentiality.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Where the potential potential potential reality is is like saying
putting elevator shoes on your vocabulary. To us Kale's term,
potential is enough, that's enough of a word. I don't
need to use any any more than that. Potentiality kind
of means the same thing, except why bother with the
extra verbiage potential.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
People know that you graduated from Stanford, you know, potentiality.
I listened to him, you know, we're always talking about
movies and and and and uh. I think Kitln has
(04:13):
got like a list that he's he wants us to
fill out or at least give, you know, the best,
this best that uh a little bit later. But I,
you know, I can't do the I don't really feel
like I can talk to you without like if there
(04:34):
was an earthquake today, you know, I have to like
kind of got to mention the earthquake, you know. And
you know, so sometimes when I'm talking, I feel like
there's so much insanity.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Going on in in the in in the United.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
States right now, just insanity that I feel like I
have to mention it. And I hope that our listeners
can put up with a little bit. This isn't politics.
This is not politics. But it seems to me that
(05:20):
this whole situation with the list of people who showed
up at Jeffrey Epstein's house or has really gotten some
like you know who are they going to fire now?
Speaker 1 (05:38):
And like and all, It's like the animal is consu
the snake that's swallowing its own tail, you know, at
the animal that's consuming itself. I told a friend of
mine that my my hoist on your own petard. He
lives by the conspiracy theory, dies by the conspiracy theory.
(06:00):
Schadenfreud is kind of working overtime now to watch Mega
World kind of tearing itself apart over this thing. I
think it's hysterical. I'm just reading an article about it
this morning, and yeah, they are ripping it up, you know.
So it's it's kind of like watching Iran and Iraq
at war. I don't I'm not rooting for either side,
(06:20):
and I hope they both do each other a lot
of damage. Uh, you know, like Elon Musk and Trump
going at it. I hope they both do each other
a lot of damage. You know. Let's just when when
your enemy is digging a hole, let him do it,
keep on going, decide.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
You know.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
That the president of the United States the last verbiage whatever.
Now I'm using words that I don't ever use.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
The last.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
True social you know, did he did he put? You know,
it was this whole thing about Hillary Clinton and you
know about this right.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
No, I was reading a letter he sent to the
president of Brazil saying, We're going to impose really big
tariffs on you unless you stop beating up on the
last guy who was president just because he sort of
staged an insurrection and had his supporters go to the
presidential or go to the national headquarters and capital and
(07:33):
try to overrun it with his supporters. Just because he
did that kind of copying me. You know, you guys
shouldn't be prosecuting him now. So unless you stop prosecuting
your former president, I'm going to impose fifty percent tariffs
on you. And the letter he sent to the president
of Brazil, it's like every other word is capitalized like
a grade schooler. There's nothing remotely professional about this letter.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Have you have you have you seen that the texts
that uh that Governor Newsom is sending to Stephen Miller. No, dude,
you gotta you gotta Camica group. Oh yeah, it is.
It is getting you know. I guess you know when
(08:22):
you're when you go to the you fight with it rats.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
You gotta get in the gutter ry him and.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
If you if you put pictures of Stephen Miller and
Adolf Eichman next to each other. You would say, separated
at birth, you know, brothers of the same mother. They
look so much alike. It's freaky. It's freaky.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Well, the last, the last thing that I had kind
of heard about the the files, uh, is that Trumpets said, well,
you know his.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Attorney general is.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
This Pam Blondie.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
They've all said that doesn't really exist, It's not there anymore.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
The FBI, head of the FBI.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Did you know, Jim that the head of the the
second at the uh what not the state Department at
uh what would you call the no, the Justice Department,
Justice department. Yeah, do you know who the second guy is?
(09:33):
Who's the head of the Justice Department right now?
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Well, it's the attorney general is Justice Department, and that's
Pam beyond Y.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
All right, So she's in hot water now, supposedly.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Possible calling her people are calling on the right wing
social social media who dislike her or calling her Pam Blondie,
like Laura Loomer is calling her Pam Blondie because she said, Hey,
I got this list, I got the list of e
clients on my desk, right here in front of me,
and then a few days later, oh, well it doesn't
exist or we don't think there's anything that can be
(10:07):
gained by releasing any more information. So that's kind of
what appears to have, you know, the right, It appears
to have Maga world splitting apart over this. Did you
did she use?
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Go ahead?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Well, she's she's the attorney general, and then apparently she's
There was a meeting last week and the deputy director
of the FBI, guy named Dan Bagnino, who I guess
was really big and podcasting in the podcasting world before
he became Uh okay, yeah, well I guess he's a
(10:47):
former secret Service agent and he fell in with the
mega folks some years ago and became a podcaster and
uh and he's now the second in charge of the FBI,
and he's the guy who got into a big fight
with Pan beyond he telling her that she had mishandled
this whole thing and that the big player up is
her fault. And apparently over the weekend the stories were
(11:09):
well he's thinking of quitting. He didn't go to his
job on Friday, so I don't know what the latest
is on his status, but the framing I saw of
the squab at this point was that it was sort
of internest in warfare between people, you know, high up
in the Trump administration. But it seems to be flaring out.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Do you know who the person who is the second
at the Justice Department is now, like there's.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
His second in command is the Deputy Attorney general currently
Todd Blanche.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
You know Todd Todd Blanche was one of his attorneys
who lost the case. Right, Well, yeah, I mean he argued, well,
he lost the case in New York with the thirty
four felony convictions. He sort of won the case in
the Supreme Court with the immunity case for the January
sixth indictments. So and then the the the you know,
(12:01):
the holding on to secret materials, the top secret materials
case got tossed by that Aileen Cannon judge in Florida
that Trump appointed. And I mean it didn't take any
great lawyer and to do that. It was fixed from
the start with that judge. But he also represented Trump
in that case. So you know, technically he won more
cases than he lost, although he did lose thirty four
(12:22):
felony convictions in New York. But Blanche was his was
essentially one of his top trial attorneys. Yeah, and then
there's a and then he appointed another one of his
attorneys to the to the bench to become a federal judge.
And he's up for hearings right now, a guy named
Amol Bobey, and he's getting all kinds of crap for
memos he wrote saying, well, you know, we should just
(12:44):
ignore the courts, tell him to fuck off. If they
hand us any rulings on immigration we don't like, We'll
just tell him to fuck off. And those memos are
kind of coming back to haunt him as he's up
for his confirmation hearings right now. So you know, we'll see.
I'm sure Susan Collins will express their concern and for
her bra and yeah, you know, well there, I've seen
(13:05):
that show before.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, well, you know I just
did the lately. The latest thing that I had heard
was that Trump had come out and said, you know,
these files don't exist, but you know, if they do exist,
they were concocted by Hillary Clinton.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Oh no, I didn't hear.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yeah, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, you know, like and and
that that's oh.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Yeah, you can well, you know the real tell and
the giveaway with Trump and his people always is the
is their projection. They accused their opponents of what they
are doing themselves. So if there was any you know,
o shenanigans with the Epstein piles, I'm sure it's something
that they're up to, you know.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
I just think of like.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
The beginning, the very beginning of all the press and
sman where you go.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Like tick tick tick, and it's like, yeah, yeah, the key,
the keys striking the paper on, the reporters are typing
out their stories.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the What do you think
of Alanwitz?
Speaker 3 (14:27):
What was the movie they made basically about Alan Let's
talk about that movie a little bit. Alan the movie
Ron Silver I think Playeditz.
Speaker 7 (14:35):
Yeah, yeah, and he had a bunch of students. It
was it was a very.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Reversal of fortune. It was called and it was I
I went into a good movie.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
It was a good movie. Yeah, and it really made
him look pretty damn good, right.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. He was a very good self promoter.
I ran into Dershowitz fifty years ago at Stanford. He
was teaching at Harvard Law School, but he came to
Stanford for a year on the sabbatical and he was
co teaching an undergraduate course on criminal law, and I
took that course, and he was a complete and total
(15:13):
asshole in my view back then, even though he was
espousing you know, leftist causes, and he did do a
lot of work for uh wrongly, for death row.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Uh uh that's what the movie is in the South.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah, well no, no, the movie. Well, he also had
a likeness for rich people, right, and and the movie
is about his defensive clouds on Beulah played by played
by by Jeremy Iron right right, and for best Actor.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
He went Academy Award for Best Actor in that movie.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
And I think Close plays the wife, lay the wife.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
But yeah, well that's a pretty easy role to play,
isn't it. That's just just like laying there in coma
the whole time.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
That's that's the kind of job that I like. I
don't like Hicks, you know. Yeah, if I'm a sleep,
if I'm if asleep on the set, people just step
over me and say, yeah, he's in character. Oh, Michael
guys always in character, in.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Character playing the coma guy.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Yeah, who directed that movie, Jim?
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Do you know or do you know?
Speaker 6 (16:24):
I have it here?
Speaker 1 (16:25):
I know, No, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (16:29):
It's Barbette Schroeder.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Oh, Barbarie Schroeder. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
That's what I think his best movie. I think Barbie
Schroeder's best movie is that one. I I thoroughly enjoyed that.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
But I had read I read the book that it
was based on. I've read a couple of Deshwitz's books
and he had one called The Best Defense, and he
had this one called Reversal of Fortune about his handing
of the the Sunnybomb bulo case. And you know, I
did the guy do it? I suspect he probably did,
you know, but Dewitz helped helped to get him off.
(17:07):
He had been convicted once and then Dershowitz won a
kind of rare appeal and got him up, and they
got him off the second time. So that's why it's
called reversal of Fortune.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
When did Dershwitz go has he always been a right
leaning it was I think it seems like he went off.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
He did, he did, he did, and I think it
was when Trump came along, and I think it was
when he saw that he could have some influence on
Trump with respect to Israeli policy, and I think that's
what what cemented him to Fox News and to and
to the Trump piece, Uh that that he he really liked,
(17:55):
uh Trump's approach to Net and Yahoo and to doing
things like recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Uh
like recognizing Israel's occupation of the go on right. Yes,
he was doing things that were very favorable to Israel,
and too especially and I think first was like that,
(18:18):
and that's that's what kind of got him going in
that direction.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
But I know, Jim, I.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Got a question for you, what why can't they like
the Israeli population get I mean, it doesn't sound like
a democracy when Net who's been there for like twenty years.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Ago, it's very close to the situation have in this country.
It's a very very evenly divided population. And it's the
jerrymandering and the institutional structures tend to favor the right
wingers in that in that in Israel politics, okay, they
tend to favor these these kind of extreme right wing
(19:01):
parties that Net and Yahoo is able to string together
into a coalition. So, uh No, he's not a very
popular guy. His his ratings in Israel are worse than
Trump's in this country, and Trump is underwater in this
country and in Israel, and Yaho is also facing a
corruption trial. But Trump is and.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
I understand that. But don't they have elections every two years,
four years?
Speaker 1 (19:25):
I don't know how often they they have.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
He's been in power for like thirty years. I mean,
he's been.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Off on and off. Yeah, I think I think he
was out for a few years, but then back in.
I mean, they have a parliamentary system, so the the
head of the government is whoever heads the party that
has the most seats in parliament or can string together
coalition to both them into into power. But he's been
able to bring together a coalition of these you know,
(19:54):
extreme right wing parties, and that's why, you know, his
politics tend to be pretty extremely right wa like, let's
go blow up Iran, Let's you know, go ahead and
take over the goal and heights.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
What's the name of all stuff? Jeffrey Epstein's like, uh uh.
The woman who used to go.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Out and get all of what was her name, Giselle
or something like that, Gazelle Maxwell and her father was
was that fabulously rich?
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Uh uh?
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Media magnate Robert Maxwell, did you ever hear of him.
He was sort of like Rupert Murdoch before Murdoch came
along and he died in a mysterious like boating accident.
I think he drowned on his yacht. Wow, yeah, yeah,
her father. I guess she's well known and that's kind
of what made her.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
I guess she's She's kind of come out basically and said, well,
the president said there isn't any evidence, there's no evidence
of the of a list. There's no list, like, like,
why am I in jail if the president of the
United States?
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Did she say that she? Yes, I think she can
right now, but yeah, I know. I well, now, do
does all of this extend to he didn't really kill himself?
Or are you hearing any of that that that? Or
is it pretty well established that he killed himself?
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Well that that that that that situations. You know, I
only know what everybody else is listening to this, and
that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
What are they saying in the in the you know,
in the podcasting world or in the in the social
media world.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Of I think that I think it was the Attorney General.
I think that she was out basically saying that like
every day, like five minutes of the visuals on the jail, uh,
(21:55):
you know, get rear ranged. So it's like five minutes
every every every day, and it just happened to be
those five minutes where he either committed suicide or got killed,
and so nobody knows. But she's now providing or wants
to provide earlier days and later days where those same
(22:16):
five minutes are missing. I mean, the whole thing is
a little bit like you think they'll be making this
movie somewhere down the all.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Why, I'm sure of it. I'm sure that there's a
writer's room somewhere in Hollywood that's conjuring up a take
on all of this.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
I watched the movie Deliverance the other day, and.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Boy, that movie's good and fucking John Voight Man. John
Voight is a guy who is so talented. He's so
good in that movie because he has to go from
kind of a just a normal person to somebody who
makes a decision that you know, he's going to break
(23:03):
the law to try to save his his ass.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
And he's the one who has to rise to the
occasion too.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yes, yes he is, yeah, yeah, he's the only one.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah. I mean it starts off with four guys, you know,
taking a river trip down the river, and Bert Bert
Reynolds is the he man of the group. He's the
guy who brings his bow and arrow along. He's the
tough guy. He's the guy you would expect could handle
the situation if things turn crazy, which they do, but
(23:38):
he's disabled. He gets injured, and it's John Boyd who
has to, you know, at the end, rise to the
occasion and you know, kind of take the mantle from
from Burt Reynolds and uh and save the day. And
he's he's terrific in it. You know, the sheriff who
shows up at the very it's the guy who wrote Dickie.
It was the guy who wrote the book.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, I you know, I I remember him before I
even watched the movie, because I've seen it a couple
of times before in the past. I remembered that he
seemed to be a very ominous character.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
I remembered that character towards.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
The end of the movie going yeah, I don't know
in a story, I don't know something.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
And he was very very good in that movie, very
very good. And I didn't know until I watched the
movie that here's Another thing I want to talk to
you about, Jim, is that he wrote the book and
(24:49):
then he wrote the screenplay. Yes, okay, so and it's
just him. It's his name on the screenplay and that's it.
And it seems to me, Jim, that writing a novel
and writing a screenplay are two pretty different skill sets.
(25:16):
Which would you Yeah, can you talk to me a
little bit about like like movies that you know, because
a lot of guys write books, but they don't they're
not able to really take their books and and turn
them into.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Uh every every now and then you'll see that, you know.
We talked to Eric Roberts some time ago and the
movie The Pope of Greenwich Village was written by a
fellow who it was his first novel, and then he
also turned around and wrote the screenplay, did a very
good job with it. And that is really rare that
(25:55):
you can see, you see somebody who is kind of
equally adept in both in both fields.
Speaker 6 (26:02):
Well, we also talked to Ontel about writing, yeah, recognizing
your Saints too. He did both of those.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
Yes, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah, And I used to tell people if we were
dealing with a novelist, who is going to adapt his
book into a screenplay. I used to give them copies
of Chinatown, the screenplay for Chinatown, and say, gosh, if
you can, you know, learn how to write like this,
and then you know, it shouldn't be that much trouble
for you to adapt your book. But uh, it really
(26:33):
is a different animal.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
I'm going to explain the end of that movie to me.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
It's forget about it, Jake, just forget explain the beginning
to me. I don't know why they sent uh sent
that woman into to see the Private Eye in the
first place. You know, why did they what were they
looking for? What did they want? Did they want him
to lead them to the girl? Is that what Houston wanted?
And sending that Diane lad to see uh him in
(27:01):
the first is that that movie was on just a
week or two ago on Turner Classic Movie. So I
watched it again and the question and still puzzles me,
fifty years after I saw it for the first time.
Why did they send that Why did they send that
woman in to see him?
Speaker 3 (27:15):
If that's the Screenpoty, you tell everybody who wants to
be a writer.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yeah, that's why I tell everybody.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah, exactly exactly when I can't make any sense when
I can't figure still.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
The day that movie came out, I went to see
it in a theater, a matinee performance of it, and
I was so stirred by it.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
But I went Robert town right, Robert town right, yes, yes, yeah, yeah,
And who directed it?
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Polanski. Great book about that movie called The Big Goodbye
that focuses on Polanski, town and Robert Evans, who were
sort of the name is Paramount was it was a
Paramount movie. It was a weird movie in that Evans
was was still a production executive of Paramount, and yet
(28:01):
he also took a producing credit on the movie.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Oh yeah, you told me that that very rarely ever.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Happened, very rare, very rare, for sure for sure. And
then and then Polanski had put a real avant garde
abrasive score on the movie and showed it to Evans,
and Evans hated it. So he went running to Jerry
Goldsmith and said, Jerry, could you please, you know, save
my movie. And this is only a few weeks before
(28:28):
the movie was supposed to be coming out, And gold
Goldsmith went into the studio and wrote that beautiful score
for the movie in a matter of just a couple
of weeks a week or two. And uh, and I
think that for which movie?
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Which for Chinatown?
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah, the Saxophones and the Beautiful.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
I love that movie right up until the end where
I just go like, I don't I don't know what
I don't you know, understanding of this, But that happens
to me a lot in Town.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Town's original script that she doesn't die, it's the old
man who gets killed. And Pulansky said, I don't think
that works. Let's killed the wife. You know, he was
only a few years out from having his own wife
murdered from from Sharon, so he kind of changed the ending.
(29:22):
And so I think in this this was in you know,
nineteen seventy three, this is at the end of Watergate
and Vietnam cin there's a lot of cynicism in the air.
And he said, this is the way the world works.
It's a dark place, you know, and the bad guys win,
especially rich bad guys tend to win. So, you know,
it was kind of a dark and cynical view, but
(29:43):
that's that's what the world was showing him at the time.
So they had a big argument about that. Polansky in
Town and I think Town later said, yeah, Romans Romans
take was probably the right one, but we did fight
about it, and I didn't like that ending. In fact,
the sequel The Two Jakes, that Nicholson directed, some almost
(30:04):
twenty years later, the Noah Cross character of the John
Houston character is said to have killed himself, which from
the first movie, right, I wouldn't think that guy would
be capable of killing himself.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
Robert was sort of the one.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah he did, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's not very good.
Did you ever see it? No?
Speaker 3 (30:27):
And that would just the reason why when I say no,
like that makes me believe that it can't be very good,
because if Scott Jack Nicholson in it and Robert Town
wrote it, you would think that it would be a
wonderful movie. And since you never really hear much about it,
(30:48):
I guess I figured.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Well, Nicholson directed it, and it it suffered from that.
And Nicholson isn't really a bad director. He's directed before. Yeah,
you know, so he's no, he's no stranger to that.
But it just this this one, the Two jo The
Two Jakes.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Yeah, what's what's that about?
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Well, uh, it's sort of about the idea Initially was
that town was going to write about power in Los Angeles,
and so there are three kind of elements to to
to that, and one was water and one was oil,
and one was land. So Chinatown was the first one,
and that was going to be about water, and then
the second one was going to be about oil cornering
(31:38):
the oil in the marketing like over one hundred years
ago when oil was discovered in in l A. And
then and then a third movie, which never got written,
was going to be about land.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
But but the two Jakes was sort of about an oil.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
On that that on the second that's third one.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Yeah, exactly exactly. You see why the third one never
got off the ground after the second one.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
But you know what's interesting about Deliverance, I thought, is,
uh the score. The score is basically a take off
on dueling bands. I mean, dueling Banjos was a song.
You could look that up, Kaitlin, and it was a
(32:29):
song that had that had already been around, and I
think somebody wrote it and then I think somebody kind
of recorded it.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
But it is used.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Throughout the entire movie, and I think it's really the
only I mean it it's not exactly dueling bands all
the way through the movie.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
But pretty much it is.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
And I kind of thought that it's not very often
that you hear a song or or or am I wrong?
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Jam?
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Are there a bunch of movies around where one song
is kind of the back None?
Speaker 1 (33:09):
I mean there could be no, there are other movies
around that the dude that I couldn't think of any
right up hand. But uh, but doing Banjo's also was
a song that kind of had a fair amount of
popularity on the radio charts at that time too. It
was sort of a crossoverheait, because you could hear it
on on a M and FM radio back in those
(33:30):
days as well. Right, And it's a great it's a
great scene in the movie when Ronnie Cox walks up
to that kid, you know, that backwoods kid obviously a
product of generations of inbreeding a family who's treating branch. Yeah,
and uh, it's it's a mesmerizing moment in the movie,
isn't it. I Mean, it just really gets you sets
(33:51):
the movie gets you into the right mood for the movie.
Speaker 6 (33:53):
Because you can it's probably the second most famous scene
from that movie.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Yeah, wouldn't you think?
Speaker 4 (33:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (34:00):
Yeah, but this is interesting.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
So the song was.
Speaker 6 (34:04):
It was composed in nineteen fifty four and then recorded
in nineteen fifty five. The song was made famous in
seventy two from Deliverance, which also led to a successful
lawsuit by the song's composer, as it was used in
the film without their permission.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Wow they did that, they used Wow.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
Crazy.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
They must have thought. They must have thought that was
like traditional folk music or something with no copyright attached
to it. They obviously didn't realize it was copyrighted, or
they wouldn't have used it without, you know, trying to
secure permission. Holy crap. Yeah, interesting, Interesting.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Well I didn't realize Jim that when they made the
movie the studio said too junkboarman, right, yeah, said to
John Borman, you need two stars. And you know, it
(35:05):
was kind of done a little bit on a budget,
and therefore they don't pay. They don't pay for their music.
But uh, it's kind of done on the budget.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
And they two million, two million dollars. The budget was
two million dollars. I mean, that's a lot of fucking
movie for two million dollars.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Man. That is even back then. I would thank you,
isn't it, Jim? Two million dollars.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's pretty meager, you know, especially
when you look at it with a Catholic with John Boyd.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Yes, yeah and yeah from what I from what I
didn't really quite realize it at the time, but that
was almost Ned Batty was completely unknown at them?
Speaker 6 (35:47):
Was he.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Were people aware of who Ned? Basically?
Speaker 3 (35:53):
I heard that once they got the two stars, they said,
you know, you got the two stars, now we're gonna
go get two people.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
We don't have to pay anything. Ned Batty was one,
and uh it's his first credit.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
It is this first okay, okay, all right? Well that
he he was awfully.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Good for.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
A guy who'd never been in a movie before. Can
you imagine Jim being an actor and.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
You know, a role.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
I saw Bert Ronolds on something like The Carson Show
one night telling a story about him and Ned Baby
some years after the movie had been made. A few
years after the movie had been made. Baby was saying,
you know, it's still traumatizing to me that scene in
the movie. And Bert said, we'll tell you about why
don't we take a trip down the river and that
will kind of cauterize the wound, It will exercise the demon,
(36:53):
you know, that's haunting you from this and Baty said,
I'm not so sure about that. Come on, let's do it.
So they they float down the river and they come
to the creek without seat and is shot. And the
creek has now been renamed Sodomy Creek. And Reynolds said
that that putting it in a real bad mood at
that point.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
So they actually did that, they actually they.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Read, Yeah, they renamed it Sodomy Creek. Now that's according
to Burt Renolds telling a story.
Speaker 8 (37:24):
Yes, yeah, So I don't know how much you can
how much of that is apocryphal, you know, and hyperbole,
But still I thought it was pretty funny and there's
probably some little element of a kernel.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Of truth to it, but it was pretty funny. But
that is a I'd read.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
In someplace that Burt Reynolds was responsible for finding uh,
the hit the guy uh who assaults and that baby
his cohort cohort whatever it is cohort?
Speaker 4 (37:59):
How you spell that h O r T cohort?
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Yeah, thank you? Uh uh that that that was a
Bert Reynolds. Fine, and he's the guys kind of got
all the missing teeth and says he's.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Got the pretty small.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
No, she's sure. He sure's got a he's sure got
a pretty mouth.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Pretty mouth, got a pretty mouth.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
There's a John Voyd's so fucking good, John voight Is.
You know we look back and Oh, I wanted to
say something you, Jim, by the way, you told me
recently about a movie about Tombstone. Uh, I'd never heard of.
That was done by a director who had done an
(38:45):
earlier version of Tombstone and then thought like, the history
is all wrong, I'm going to do an updated version
and this is the way his who was that? What
was the name of that?
Speaker 4 (38:57):
Director?
Speaker 1 (38:58):
John Sturgis was a pretty well known mainstream Hollywood director.
He did the original Magnificent seven, Yes he did. He
did uh Gunfight at the OK Corral with Burt Lancaster
and uh and Kirk Douglas, you know, which was a
(39:18):
very fictionalized version of the whole thing, and it actually
does take place and there's a twenty minute gunfight at
the end in a corral and like Clinton gets killed
and Noll all kinds of you know, crap, all that
is going on. But he didn't he wasn't really happy
with that, Sturgis, wasn't he? Then he then he made
that movie in about fifty seven. He made Magnificent Seven
(39:40):
shortly after that, and then he made a movie I
loved as a kid, The Great Escape. Yes, and and
work was Queen twice there right, Yeah, yeah, I brought
back to Steve McQueen. Charles Bronson is in that movie
as well, and uh and James Coburn. Yeah, used a
couple of people from the Magnificent Seven cast in the
grade of Scape and uh and James Garner and uh.
(40:02):
And then a few years later he got Garner to
agree to play I think Gardner plays Wide Earth. But
he got Garnered to be in a movie about Tombstone.
He wanted to go back and retell the story, but
tell it more accurately, a bit more. I think he
got kind of enamored in the history, as you know
that can happen to people who look into it and
(40:22):
reading that book. Right now, we got the galleys up
and it's called Hour of the Gun and stars James Garner,
and I don't know who else is in it, but
I told you that that John Boyd is in the
movie Well made in nineteen sixty seven.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Now you can look this up. This this is John
Voyce's first credit to John Voycee, I think it is.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
It's got one line in it. I watched it, Jim
did you? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (40:50):
And it fucking is just this horrible fucking movie. It
just fucking stay you know. I just had seen, uh,
who's the who's the lead. We were just Jimmy James,
James Garner, James Garner. I just seen Garner in that
(41:12):
movie that the American Americanization yea, yeah, of what is it?
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Americanization of what.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
It's called the Americanization of Emily. It's it's a Paddy
Chayevsky script I absolutely loved, made in nineteen sixty three
or four, I believe world War two movie, very cynical,
very self serving. Garner has the lead in it with
Julie Andrews. Yes, James Colburn is.
Speaker 4 (41:39):
Gulie Andrews is young in that. That was.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
I didn't even almost almost didn't sing.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
In this movie. She doesn't even sing in the movie.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
No, no, no, and that and that performance of Garner's
is just fucking brilliant. And that movie is really really good.
And so when I, oh, I'll tell you who's also
fucking terrible in it, which is you know, I don't like,
you know, whatever, But Jason Robarts plays Doc Holiday and
(42:13):
boy is he fucking like like just almost unwatchable.
Speaker 4 (42:19):
I mean, Jason wrote he must he must have been
on the wagon that he was born old.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Was he in sixty seven? He would have been like
probably he didn't seem that old, wouldn't you be a
little older? He's playing Doc.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Well, he's he's definitely older than thirty two or thirty
three or whatever Doc Holiday was.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
And how old did Doc Holiday?
Speaker 3 (42:44):
And I know Johnny Ringo was thirty three when he died,
and uh, I know, so I don't. Yeah, Holliday was
about the same age, but that's what I thought too.
Doc Holliday was about the same agent. Yeah, yeah, you know,
obviously they get a way, Yeah, they get away with
(43:04):
with stuff like that. But this movie, I just, you know,
I watched it and I just it's, you know, you
got Jason Robarts in a movie, and you know he's
playing Don Holiday, and uh was it.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
John Voids first movie?
Speaker 6 (43:21):
Second movie?
Speaker 4 (43:21):
Second movie?
Speaker 3 (43:22):
Okay, because I I wanted to pay attention to it
because Jimmy had told me they was in it, and
he's there and you sort of see him in the background.
Uh all through the He's part of the like kind
of cowboy Robert Ryan is it Robert Ryan who plays
(43:46):
Robert Ryan plays uh I Clanton and and and okay.
Speaker 4 (43:54):
And so and I Clanton is sort of the.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
He's portrayed completely differently than than what Stephen Lang did. Now,
Stephen Lang was brilliant, and but he's kind of portrayed,
you know, there's it is a it is a little
bit more closer to the truth of what of what
(44:23):
went down, but there are still a lot of a
lot of problems with it.
Speaker 4 (44:28):
And then and and and.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
It was just like watching Paint dry Man. It was
just they were just it was just terrible. Anyway, Well,
it didn't it obviously didn't do very well.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
How old was Jason Robarts when he did well.
Speaker 6 (44:47):
He was born in nineteen twenty two, so if you
want to do the math on that, well.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
In what year was he was about forty he was
about forty five. And in the movie, doesn't he play
like a world or a Civil War veteran? And he's
I think he's portrayed as older than the brothers.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
That's one of the things that they got wrong, I
think is that they do portray him as a civil
war that yeah, that's love.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
Yeah, yes, yeah. Uh.
Speaker 6 (45:13):
Anyway, well, if you want to go back to Deliverance
for a minute, Yeah, I got a funny story growing up. Okay,
probably about fifteen years ago you had the inspiration to
pick up the banjo and you would sit in that
house and thumb that fucking Deliverance song day and night
(45:33):
and drive my mom up a fucking wall with your
little banjo that you decided you were going to start learning.
Speaker 4 (45:43):
How old are you when that was going down?
Speaker 6 (45:45):
I was probably again I said, fifteen years ago is
probably longer than that. I was probably like twelve thirteen
something like that.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
Yeah, I I I your mother was at a doctor's
or some sort of of like minor surgery going on
with her with you, uh, and I kind of got left,
like okay, we'll come pick pick us, pick us up
in three hours. I don't think it was you. I
(46:11):
think it was something to do with your mom. And
I was wandering around that neighborhood. Santa Monica would have
walked to this store and it was a cheap banjo,
it was. It costs like thirty dollars or something like that,
and uh, yeah, I was like that dueling banjo thing,
and it did.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
It did drive my.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
Uh Caitlin's mother, Gina, she still like still talks about it.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Damn banjo.
Speaker 3 (46:45):
Yeah yeah, I mean it's you know it, you know,
a banjo's not like you don't really strum.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
I mean you can, but not really the way that
that it's played. I've always liked, you know, what do
they call it? Blue grass? Bluegrass music?
Speaker 3 (47:03):
Yeah, yeah, I've always kind of had a thing about bluegrass,
and I've always liked certain elements of bluegrass music, especially
the banjo. And you'll get a really great banjo player
and a really great guitar player together, and uh I
could you know I.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Yeah, yeah, well, you know, Steve Martin had a banjo that.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
Was Steve Martin was very yeah, very good. I know
because I tried to learn how to play it, you know,
and and Steve Martin was.
Speaker 4 (47:40):
Yeah, he was. He was fabulous.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
It was it was sort of great prop of his,
but he was really good at it.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
He doesn't play that thing too, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
absolutely all right. So what I saw I saw I
watched not all that long ago, Catch twenty two, you know,
the movie Mike Nichols director in nineteen seventy based on
Joseph Heller's famous book, and John Voight has a role
(48:09):
in that, playing the really cynical war profiteers. Yeah, and
my Minderbinder And god is he terrific in that movie.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
He is just wonderful in that movie. That's it. I
thought that movie held up very well when I watched
it again not long ago, and he was He's just
fabulous in that. So it is fun to go back
and watch some of his earlier performances, you know, after
Midnight Cowboy, a couple of movies that he came up
with after that, and Deliberance and Catch twenty two were both,
(48:40):
you know, really rewarding experiences to sit through.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
Again, I'm trying to think I watched another movie of
his now I'm trying to think of the name of it,
and oh, oh, I know what it was. You know,
it was really disappointed it because I'd hurt. I thought
this movie be John Singletary. I think it was the director.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he did a movie. It was
(49:07):
kind of it seemed like it was kind of based
on that race riot that went on, not that that
thing that happened where they burn up all the black
businesses and what what was that?
Speaker 4 (49:17):
What was it? Well, in history, it wasn't that exactly,
but uh.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
It was, it was, It wasn't. There's a probably the
best known is in Tulsa about one hundred years ago
in the nineteen twenties. Tulsa had a kind of what
they called the Black Wall Street and there was a
massacre that occurred and burned up that whole area and
killed a bunch of people.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
It was real.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
I read a book about it for a production company
not long ago, and it was a really horrific thing.
There was something similar, I think that happened in North
Carolina and that's the incident that Single Singleton made a
movie about.
Speaker 4 (49:51):
Do you know what the name of that movie is,
Caitlin or did Jim? Do you know? The name of it?
Speaker 1 (49:55):
Would be John Singleton look at John Yeah, yeah, yeah,
and Boys in the Hood guy yeah.
Speaker 4 (50:02):
And it's got a couple of uh okay, I'm trying
to think of the.
Speaker 6 (50:13):
Their connection with Mike Nichols. What is there a connection
with Mike Nichols the director?
Speaker 1 (50:19):
Not really John.
Speaker 3 (50:23):
It was called Rose Yes, yes, Rosewood is yeah yeah okay,
uh and it's got a good cast, Uh, Michael Rookers
in it, and he plays Michael Rookers pretty good at
playing Alabama boy, you know that. Yeah, that Alabama hick
(50:46):
with the spin and uh, it's quite a good cast.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
Uh yeah, yeah yeah, Lauren, Lauren d Yeah, Michael Rookers. Yeah,
that's a good calst.
Speaker 4 (50:59):
But it's not very good. I didn't, I didn't. I didn't.
I think it was I think he's not with us anymore.
Speaker 7 (51:08):
No, Yeah, so I guess I can say that he was.
He was a classmate of our, of our friend Adam Nobak,
who we have on the show before. They were the
only two guys in their USC screenwriting class who wrote
screenplays as undergraduates that got optioned. And Singleton's was Boys
in the Hood it got made, and Adams was called
(51:31):
Conversations with.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
A Cannibal and it never got made. But Adam and
John were classmates, and Adam knew him pretty well. Yeah,
and he died a few years ago. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (51:42):
Yeah, just just to be fair, Not that I've seen
the movie, but it does have good Rotten Tomato scores
on it. Both audience and critics seem to like it
quite a bit.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
Rosewood.
Speaker 3 (51:51):
Yeah, well, you know, everybody's got a different opinion. Everybody
has a different you know. I mean it had a
high production value.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
It it got favorable reviews generally, but it was.
Speaker 3 (52:03):
You know, that's you know, I was looking forward to
watching it because you know, we've been talking about Voight.
I thought, like, okay, John Void in this and John
Voight's great, and John Voight is always good. John Voight
is like always good.
Speaker 4 (52:18):
He said that.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
Did that movie with like that big snake on the
ConA Ana Conda and.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
Something like that. He was terrific.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
He's well, but he's great. He was great Anaconda. He's
the only thing in Anaconda that is like even watching.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Watching that's a movie.
Speaker 6 (52:37):
That's one of those is that's one of those movies.
It's about a giant snake in It's not supposed to
be like a fucking theatrical masterpiece, but for what it is,
ice cube in it and Jennifer Lopez like it's a
it's like a so what you call like a good
bad movie.
Speaker 3 (52:53):
Okay, okay, okay, but John Voight, if you watch John
Voight in that movie, John Wait is fucking there. He
is like the best thing in it from an acting standpoint.
Do you you had a question that you wanted to
ask Jim and.
Speaker 6 (53:12):
I, Yeah, but we're out of time for that. That's
a whole discussion.
Speaker 4 (53:16):
All right, we'll hey, Jim, are you Jim?
Speaker 2 (53:20):
Let me?
Speaker 4 (53:23):
Okay? Uh.
Speaker 3 (53:25):
I just want to thank everybody that uh listens to
us and seems to enjoy it. I love reading the
comments that you write, and I, you know, I want
to hear about other movies.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Respond We are responding to them too.
Speaker 3 (53:46):
Yeah, well I don't respond. I don't really know how
to do very much. I can read him and actually
have responded responding. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I actually did respond questions.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
You know.
Speaker 4 (53:59):
I just I'm the actor who goes like.
Speaker 3 (54:03):
Oh, this guy loves it, this guy loves it, this
guy loves it, this guy loves it, this guy loves it,
this guy loves this guy loves it.
Speaker 4 (54:09):
No, this guy fucking hates it.
Speaker 3 (54:10):
All right, pick up my phone, fuck you motherfucker, Like, well,
quit watching it, you fucking you know. Yeah, we only
we only pay attention to our bad reviews. Okay, so
(54:34):
on that, Oh uh okay, so I guess we should.
I'm used to be part of the podcast.
Speaker 4 (54:41):
Are you doing your your thing? On when oh you.
Speaker 3 (54:46):
Can't well, never mind, all right, So that's the end
of this. Thank you everybody. I'm so happy that you're
watching and listening, and I'm having so much fun. I'm
working with my my son, Kaylin, who I love dearly
like I do all my children, and he just gives
(55:07):
us a chance to get together and hang out and
kind of uh talk talk movies, and I'm just really
enjoying the situation. I'm having lunch with Adam by the
way on Wednesday, and so we'll find out maybe a
little bit more about Onslaught, but probably I'm not going
(55:28):
to be able to you know, these days you can't
really talk about very much. So but I know we
got Jim Cameron coming up in the future, and uh
we'll Shelton to and n and yeah, that's on you, bro,
that's on you because well it's tour schedule too, because
you you have some signings coming up.
Speaker 6 (55:49):
I believe, well we got you got the big comic
con coming up at the end of this month, so
we'll probably try.
Speaker 4 (55:56):
San Diego, San Diego Comic Con anyway.
Speaker 3 (56:02):
Okay, so, uh can you do this tomorrow, Jim? Yeah,
I consolutely Instead of like doing uh another one and
you cut this wherever you want to cut it.
Speaker 4 (56:19):
Uh, we'll just we'll just do it tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (56:23):
And just because I get a little tired of talking
unless not talking about myself, and then I can go
on all day long, you know, but when we start
talking about other things, I get a little tired. So
uh we'll get back to your gym on the time
and uh we'll do the next one tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (56:45):
Okay, sounds good. Sure I can, I can, I can.
You know. I have a few things I need to
do tomorrow, but nothing that I can't reread or do
around eye searchery, recording for sure, not shirt, just just
you know, just be stuff.
Speaker 4 (57:07):
Here's the music.
Speaker 3 (57:10):
Don't know whom you let to a strange begin show?
Which hand would you choose to let the way?
Speaker 4 (57:17):
What crow to you?
Speaker 1 (57:19):
Wait?
Speaker 4 (57:19):
Pound the ol villain? How would you look about someone
dirtier than.
Speaker 3 (57:25):
You undering music?
Speaker 1 (57:29):
Why don't you let them be?
Speaker 2 (57:31):
Carry on with our shoes? Won't you? Jo
I have declared war against my brain in order to see.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
That.
Speaker 3 (00:06):
Won's don't seem to so long as so long as I.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Do, they will you wait?
Speaker 3 (00:12):
Time? Stop James, I don't have to.
Speaker 4 (00:20):
Hey Jim, how are you? I'm pretty good. How are
you doing?
Speaker 1 (00:26):
I'm well? I uh. I was just you know, touting
Kaitlin a minute ago or so are we recording today?
And I noticed that I had forgotten to respond to
the query a few days ago. Does ten o'clock Monday
work for everybody? And I had written a response, but
I never sent it. And in fact, what I was
(00:47):
saying was I had an eye doctor appointment today which
I postponed or rescheduled. And this is that doctor who
occasionally get me a shot in the eye. So you know,
I mean, the upside for me, I don't really know
whether we did a podcast or not. The upside for
me was I don't have to go see that doctor
who occasionally will stick me in the eye with a needle.
Speaker 3 (01:07):
The idea of having a needle stuck in your eyeball.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
There are a lot of things that sound better, you know,
a whole number of things that sound a lot better than.
Speaker 4 (01:18):
That hit the eye with a sharp stick. Literally.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
I had to have a blood test done last week,
and I told the philebottomist who was taking the sample,
I said, you know, I used to say, I don't
really mind the little pain of that. I just don't
need to be watching you when you do it, you know,
so I'm gonna look away. But you don't have that
option when the doctor's going to shoot you. You can't
say I don't look away for this doctor that it
(01:45):
really is nowhere near as as as painful and totus.
I mean, because when when they first told me they
were going to have to give me a shot in
the eyeball, I had visions of clockwork orange, you know,
and malcolming down that that thing in his in his
eye holding it open. It's nothing like it is, nothing
like that. But but still I'd rather not have it done.
Speaker 4 (02:09):
Why does this guy keep sticking to your eyeballs?
Speaker 1 (02:12):
He hasn't, He hasn't for a couple of years. He did, yeah,
really for a few years. But I go back and
see him every six months or so. In fact, I
haven't seen him for almost a year.
Speaker 5 (02:23):
But uh, I had a little bit of a bleeding,
a little blood vessel that was bleeding, and and the
shots tend to tend to stop the bleeding.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
And I mean, it wasn't it didn't seem to be
affecting my bision all that much, you know. I mean,
I got other things that affect my vision. I do
have to wear glasses to read. Yeah, so, uh, you know.
But but you know, they did not notice that. The
doctors noticed that when I had an exam, and this
doctor said, you know, probably wouldn't be a bad idea
to take care of this now. So I think altogether
(02:59):
I had three shot maybe two years ago, and since
then he hasn't hasn't given me a shot. But there's
always that potentiality there when I go. The last few
times he's sort of said, it's up to you, you know,
whether I have one or not. Well, doctor, but.
Speaker 3 (03:13):
Why would you use instead of using the word potential potentiality.
How don't those mean exactly the same thing, potential. There's
always the potential, Well, there's always the potentiality.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
Where the potential potential potential reality is is like saying
putting elevator shoes on your vocabulary. To us Kale's term,
potential is enough, that's enough of a word. I don't
need to use any any more than that. Potentiality kind
of means the same thing, except why bother with the
extra verbiage potential.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
People know that you graduated from Stanford, you know, potentiality.
I listened to him, you know, we're always talking about
movies and and and and uh. I think Kitln has
(04:13):
got like a list that he's he wants us to
fill out or at least give, you know, the best,
this best that uh a little bit later. But I,
you know, I can't do the I don't really feel
like I can talk to you without like if there
(04:34):
was an earthquake today, you know, I have to like
kind of got to mention the earthquake, you know. And
you know, so sometimes when I'm talking, I feel like
there's so much insanity.
Speaker 4 (04:52):
Going on in in the in in the United.
Speaker 3 (04:56):
States right now, just insanity that I feel like I
have to mention it. And I hope that our listeners
can put up with a little bit. This isn't politics.
This is not politics. But it seems to me that
(05:20):
this whole situation with the list of people who showed
up at Jeffrey Epstein's house or has really gotten some
like you know who are they going to fire now?
Speaker 1 (05:38):
And like and all, It's like the animal is consu
the snake that's swallowing its own tail, you know, at
the animal that's consuming itself. I told a friend of
mine that my my hoist on your own petard. He
lives by the conspiracy theory, dies by the conspiracy theory.
(06:00):
Schadenfreud is kind of working overtime now to watch Mega
World kind of tearing itself apart over this thing. I
think it's hysterical. I'm just reading an article about it
this morning, and yeah, they are ripping it up, you know.
So it's it's kind of like watching Iran and Iraq
at war. I don't I'm not rooting for either side,
(06:20):
and I hope they both do each other a lot
of damage. Uh, you know, like Elon Musk and Trump
going at it. I hope they both do each other
a lot of damage. You know. Let's just when when
your enemy is digging a hole, let him do it,
keep on going, decide.
Speaker 4 (06:37):
You know.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
That the president of the United States the last verbiage whatever.
Now I'm using words that I don't ever use.
Speaker 4 (06:53):
The last.
Speaker 3 (06:55):
True social you know, did he did he put? You know,
it was this whole thing about Hillary Clinton and you
know about this right.
Speaker 1 (07:11):
No, I was reading a letter he sent to the
president of Brazil saying, We're going to impose really big
tariffs on you unless you stop beating up on the
last guy who was president just because he sort of
staged an insurrection and had his supporters go to the
presidential or go to the national headquarters and capital and
(07:33):
try to overrun it with his supporters. Just because he
did that kind of copying me. You know, you guys
shouldn't be prosecuting him now. So unless you stop prosecuting
your former president, I'm going to impose fifty percent tariffs
on you. And the letter he sent to the president
of Brazil, it's like every other word is capitalized like
a grade schooler. There's nothing remotely professional about this letter.
Speaker 3 (08:00):
Have you have you have you seen that the texts
that uh that Governor Newsom is sending to Stephen Miller. No, dude,
you gotta you gotta Camica group. Oh yeah, it is.
It is getting you know. I guess you know when
(08:22):
you're when you go to the you fight with it rats.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
You gotta get in the gutter ry him and.
Speaker 1 (08:28):
If you if you put pictures of Stephen Miller and
Adolf Eichman next to each other. You would say, separated
at birth, you know, brothers of the same mother. They
look so much alike. It's freaky. It's freaky.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Well, the last, the last thing that I had kind
of heard about the the files, uh, is that Trumpets said, well,
you know his.
Speaker 4 (09:00):
Attorney general is.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
This Pam Blondie.
Speaker 3 (09:05):
They've all said that doesn't really exist, It's not there anymore.
Speaker 4 (09:10):
The FBI, head of the FBI.
Speaker 3 (09:12):
Did you know, Jim that the head of the the
second at the uh what not the state Department at
uh what would you call the no, the Justice Department,
Justice department. Yeah, do you know who the second guy is?
(09:33):
Who's the head of the Justice Department right now?
Speaker 1 (09:37):
Well, it's the attorney general is Justice Department, and that's
Pam beyond Y.
Speaker 3 (09:42):
All right, So she's in hot water now, supposedly.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
Possible calling her people are calling on the right wing
social social media who dislike her or calling her Pam Blondie,
like Laura Loomer is calling her Pam Blondie because she said, Hey,
I got this list, I got the list of e
clients on my desk, right here in front of me,
and then a few days later, oh, well it doesn't
exist or we don't think there's anything that can be
(10:07):
gained by releasing any more information. So that's kind of
what appears to have, you know, the right, It appears
to have Maga world splitting apart over this. Did you
did she use?
Speaker 4 (10:20):
Go ahead?
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Well, she's she's the attorney general, and then apparently she's
There was a meeting last week and the deputy director
of the FBI, guy named Dan Bagnino, who I guess
was really big and podcasting in the podcasting world before
he became Uh okay, yeah, well I guess he's a
(10:47):
former secret Service agent and he fell in with the
mega folks some years ago and became a podcaster and
uh and he's now the second in charge of the FBI,
and he's the guy who got into a big fight
with Pan beyond he telling her that she had mishandled
this whole thing and that the big player up is
her fault. And apparently over the weekend the stories were
(11:09):
well he's thinking of quitting. He didn't go to his
job on Friday, so I don't know what the latest
is on his status, but the framing I saw of
the squab at this point was that it was sort
of internest in warfare between people, you know, high up
in the Trump administration. But it seems to be flaring out.
Speaker 3 (11:26):
Do you know who the person who is the second
at the Justice Department is now, like there's.
Speaker 6 (11:33):
His second in command is the Deputy Attorney general currently
Todd Blanche.
Speaker 1 (11:38):
You know Todd Todd Blanche was one of his attorneys
who lost the case. Right, Well, yeah, I mean he argued, well,
he lost the case in New York with the thirty
four felony convictions. He sort of won the case in
the Supreme Court with the immunity case for the January
sixth indictments. So and then the the the you know,
(12:01):
the holding on to secret materials, the top secret materials
case got tossed by that Aileen Cannon judge in Florida
that Trump appointed. And I mean it didn't take any
great lawyer and to do that. It was fixed from
the start with that judge. But he also represented Trump
in that case. So you know, technically he won more
cases than he lost, although he did lose thirty four
(12:22):
felony convictions in New York. But Blanche was his was
essentially one of his top trial attorneys. Yeah, and then
there's a and then he appointed another one of his
attorneys to the to the bench to become a federal judge.
And he's up for hearings right now, a guy named
Amol Bobey, and he's getting all kinds of crap for
memos he wrote saying, well, you know, we should just
(12:44):
ignore the courts, tell him to fuck off. If they
hand us any rulings on immigration we don't like, We'll
just tell him to fuck off. And those memos are
kind of coming back to haunt him as he's up
for his confirmation hearings right now. So you know, we'll see.
I'm sure Susan Collins will express their concern and for
her bra and yeah, you know, well there, I've seen
(13:05):
that show before.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
Yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, well, you know I just
did the lately. The latest thing that I had heard
was that Trump had come out and said, you know,
these files don't exist, but you know, if they do exist,
they were concocted by Hillary Clinton.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Oh no, I didn't hear.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Yeah, Hillary Clinton, Bill Clinton, you know, like and and
that that's oh.
Speaker 1 (13:34):
Yeah, you can well, you know the real tell and
the giveaway with Trump and his people always is the
is their projection. They accused their opponents of what they
are doing themselves. So if there was any you know,
o shenanigans with the Epstein piles, I'm sure it's something
that they're up to, you know.
Speaker 4 (13:52):
I just think of like.
Speaker 3 (13:56):
The beginning, the very beginning of all the press and
sman where you go.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Like tick tick tick, and it's like, yeah, yeah, the key,
the keys striking the paper on, the reporters are typing
out their stories.
Speaker 4 (14:15):
Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's the What do you think
of Alanwitz?
Speaker 3 (14:27):
What was the movie they made basically about Alan Let's
talk about that movie a little bit. Alan the movie
Ron Silver I think Playeditz.
Speaker 7 (14:35):
Yeah, yeah, and he had a bunch of students. It
was it was a very.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Reversal of fortune. It was called and it was I
I went into a good movie.
Speaker 4 (14:47):
It was a good movie. Yeah, and it really made
him look pretty damn good, right.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, oh yeah, yeah. He was a very good self promoter.
I ran into Dershowitz fifty years ago at Stanford. He
was teaching at Harvard Law School, but he came to
Stanford for a year on the sabbatical and he was
co teaching an undergraduate course on criminal law, and I
took that course, and he was a complete and total
(15:13):
asshole in my view back then, even though he was
espousing you know, leftist causes, and he did do a
lot of work for uh wrongly, for death row.
Speaker 4 (15:24):
Uh uh that's what the movie is in the South.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Yeah, well no, no, the movie. Well, he also had
a likeness for rich people, right, and and the movie
is about his defensive clouds on Beulah played by played
by by Jeremy Iron right right, and for best Actor.
Speaker 4 (15:44):
He went Academy Award for Best Actor in that movie.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
And I think Close plays the wife, lay the wife.
Speaker 4 (15:51):
But yeah, well that's a pretty easy role to play,
isn't it. That's just just like laying there in coma
the whole time.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
That's that's the kind of job that I like. I
don't like Hicks, you know. Yeah, if I'm a sleep,
if I'm if asleep on the set, people just step
over me and say, yeah, he's in character. Oh, Michael
guys always in character, in.
Speaker 1 (16:17):
Character playing the coma guy.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Yeah, who directed that movie, Jim?
Speaker 4 (16:22):
Do you know or do you know?
Speaker 6 (16:24):
I have it here?
Speaker 1 (16:25):
I know, No, I don't know.
Speaker 6 (16:29):
It's Barbette Schroeder.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Oh, Barbarie Schroeder. Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
That's what I think his best movie. I think Barbie
Schroeder's best movie is that one. I I thoroughly enjoyed that.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
But I had read I read the book that it
was based on. I've read a couple of Deshwitz's books
and he had one called The Best Defense, and he
had this one called Reversal of Fortune about his handing
of the the Sunnybomb bulo case. And you know, I
did the guy do it? I suspect he probably did,
you know, but Dewitz helped helped to get him off.
(17:07):
He had been convicted once and then Dershowitz won a
kind of rare appeal and got him up, and they
got him off the second time. So that's why it's
called reversal of Fortune.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
When did Dershwitz go has he always been a right
leaning it was I think it seems like he went off.
Speaker 1 (17:31):
He did, he did, he did, and I think it
was when Trump came along, and I think it was
when he saw that he could have some influence on
Trump with respect to Israeli policy, and I think that's
what what cemented him to Fox News and to and
to the Trump piece, Uh that that he he really liked,
(17:55):
uh Trump's approach to Net and Yahoo and to doing
things like recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Uh
like recognizing Israel's occupation of the go on right. Yes,
he was doing things that were very favorable to Israel,
and too especially and I think first was like that,
(18:18):
and that's that's what kind of got him going in
that direction.
Speaker 4 (18:21):
But I know, Jim, I.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
Got a question for you, what why can't they like
the Israeli population get I mean, it doesn't sound like
a democracy when Net who's been there for like twenty years.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Ago, it's very close to the situation have in this country.
It's a very very evenly divided population. And it's the
jerrymandering and the institutional structures tend to favor the right
wingers in that in that in Israel politics, okay, they
tend to favor these these kind of extreme right wing
(19:01):
parties that Net and Yahoo is able to string together
into a coalition. So, uh No, he's not a very
popular guy. His his ratings in Israel are worse than
Trump's in this country, and Trump is underwater in this
country and in Israel, and Yaho is also facing a
corruption trial. But Trump is and.
Speaker 4 (19:20):
I understand that. But don't they have elections every two years,
four years?
Speaker 1 (19:25):
I don't know how often they they have.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
He's been in power for like thirty years. I mean,
he's been.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
Off on and off. Yeah, I think I think he
was out for a few years, but then back in.
I mean, they have a parliamentary system, so the the
head of the government is whoever heads the party that
has the most seats in parliament or can string together
coalition to both them into into power. But he's been
able to bring together a coalition of these you know,
(19:54):
extreme right wing parties, and that's why, you know, his
politics tend to be pretty extremely right wa like, let's
go blow up Iran, Let's you know, go ahead and
take over the goal and heights.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
What's the name of all stuff? Jeffrey Epstein's like, uh uh.
The woman who used to go.
Speaker 1 (20:11):
Out and get all of what was her name, Giselle
or something like that, Gazelle Maxwell and her father was
was that fabulously rich?
Speaker 4 (20:21):
Uh uh?
Speaker 1 (20:23):
Media magnate Robert Maxwell, did you ever hear of him.
He was sort of like Rupert Murdoch before Murdoch came
along and he died in a mysterious like boating accident.
I think he drowned on his yacht. Wow, yeah, yeah,
her father. I guess she's well known and that's kind
of what made her.
Speaker 3 (20:44):
I guess she's She's kind of come out basically and said, well,
the president said there isn't any evidence, there's no evidence
of the of a list. There's no list, like, like,
why am I in jail if the president of the
United States?
Speaker 1 (20:59):
Did she say that she? Yes, I think she can
right now, but yeah, I know. I well, now, do
does all of this extend to he didn't really kill himself?
Or are you hearing any of that that that? Or
is it pretty well established that he killed himself?
Speaker 3 (21:17):
Well that that that that that situations. You know, I
only know what everybody else is listening to this, and
that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
What are they saying in the in the you know,
in the podcasting world or in the in the social
media world.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Of I think that I think it was the Attorney General.
I think that she was out basically saying that like
every day, like five minutes of the visuals on the jail, uh,
(21:55):
you know, get rear ranged. So it's like five minutes
every every every day, and it just happened to be
those five minutes where he either committed suicide or got killed,
and so nobody knows. But she's now providing or wants
to provide earlier days and later days where those same
(22:16):
five minutes are missing. I mean, the whole thing is
a little bit like you think they'll be making this
movie somewhere down the all.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Why, I'm sure of it. I'm sure that there's a
writer's room somewhere in Hollywood that's conjuring up a take
on all of this.
Speaker 4 (22:34):
I watched the movie Deliverance the other day, and.
Speaker 3 (22:41):
Boy, that movie's good and fucking John Voight Man. John
Voight is a guy who is so talented. He's so
good in that movie because he has to go from
kind of a just a normal person to somebody who
makes a decision that you know, he's going to break
(23:03):
the law to try to save his his ass.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
And he's the one who has to rise to the
occasion too.
Speaker 3 (23:12):
Yes, yes he is, yeah, yeah, he's the only one.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Yeah. I mean it starts off with four guys, you know,
taking a river trip down the river, and Bert Bert
Reynolds is the he man of the group. He's the
guy who brings his bow and arrow along. He's the
tough guy. He's the guy you would expect could handle
the situation if things turn crazy, which they do, but
(23:38):
he's disabled. He gets injured, and it's John Boyd who
has to, you know, at the end, rise to the
occasion and you know, kind of take the mantle from
from Burt Reynolds and uh and save the day. And
he's he's terrific in it. You know, the sheriff who
shows up at the very it's the guy who wrote Dickie.
It was the guy who wrote the book.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah, I you know, I I remember him before I
even watched the movie, because I've seen it a couple
of times before in the past. I remembered that he
seemed to be a very ominous character.
Speaker 4 (24:15):
I remembered that character towards.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
The end of the movie going yeah, I don't know
in a story, I don't know something.
Speaker 4 (24:25):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (24:26):
And he was very very good in that movie, very
very good. And I didn't know until I watched the
movie that here's Another thing I want to talk to
you about, Jim, is that he wrote the book and
(24:49):
then he wrote the screenplay. Yes, okay, so and it's
just him. It's his name on the screenplay and that's it.
And it seems to me, Jim, that writing a novel
and writing a screenplay are two pretty different skill sets.
(25:16):
Which would you Yeah, can you talk to me a
little bit about like like movies that you know, because
a lot of guys write books, but they don't they're
not able to really take their books and and turn
them into.
Speaker 1 (25:35):
Uh every every now and then you'll see that, you know.
We talked to Eric Roberts some time ago and the
movie The Pope of Greenwich Village was written by a
fellow who it was his first novel, and then he
also turned around and wrote the screenplay, did a very
good job with it. And that is really rare that
(25:55):
you can see, you see somebody who is kind of
equally adept in both in both fields.
Speaker 6 (26:02):
Well, we also talked to Ontel about writing, yeah, recognizing
your Saints too. He did both of those.
Speaker 4 (26:08):
Yes, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1 (26:11):
Yeah, And I used to tell people if we were
dealing with a novelist, who is going to adapt his
book into a screenplay. I used to give them copies
of Chinatown, the screenplay for Chinatown, and say, gosh, if
you can, you know, learn how to write like this,
and then you know, it shouldn't be that much trouble
for you to adapt your book. But uh, it really
(26:33):
is a different animal.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
I'm going to explain the end of that movie to me.
Speaker 1 (26:38):
It's forget about it, Jake, just forget explain the beginning
to me. I don't know why they sent uh sent
that woman into to see the Private Eye in the
first place. You know, why did they what were they
looking for? What did they want? Did they want him
to lead them to the girl? Is that what Houston wanted?
And sending that Diane lad to see uh him in
(27:01):
the first is that that movie was on just a
week or two ago on Turner Classic Movie. So I
watched it again and the question and still puzzles me,
fifty years after I saw it for the first time.
Why did they send that Why did they send that
woman in to see him?
Speaker 3 (27:15):
If that's the Screenpoty, you tell everybody who wants to
be a writer.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yeah, that's why I tell everybody.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah, exactly exactly when I can't make any sense when
I can't figure still.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
The day that movie came out, I went to see
it in a theater, a matinee performance of it, and
I was so stirred by it.
Speaker 3 (27:34):
But I went Robert town right, Robert town right, yes, yes, yeah, yeah,
And who directed it?
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Polanski. Great book about that movie called The Big Goodbye
that focuses on Polanski, town and Robert Evans, who were
sort of the name is Paramount was it was a
Paramount movie. It was a weird movie in that Evans
was was still a production executive of Paramount, and yet
(28:01):
he also took a producing credit on the movie.
Speaker 4 (28:05):
Oh yeah, you told me that that very rarely ever.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Happened, very rare, very rare, for sure for sure. And
then and then Polanski had put a real avant garde
abrasive score on the movie and showed it to Evans,
and Evans hated it. So he went running to Jerry
Goldsmith and said, Jerry, could you please, you know, save
my movie. And this is only a few weeks before
(28:28):
the movie was supposed to be coming out, And gold
Goldsmith went into the studio and wrote that beautiful score
for the movie in a matter of just a couple
of weeks a week or two. And uh, and I
think that for which movie?
Speaker 4 (28:43):
Which for Chinatown?
Speaker 1 (28:47):
Yeah, the Saxophones and the Beautiful.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
I love that movie right up until the end where
I just go like, I don't I don't know what
I don't you know, understanding of this, But that happens
to me a lot in Town.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Town's original script that she doesn't die, it's the old
man who gets killed. And Pulansky said, I don't think
that works. Let's killed the wife. You know, he was
only a few years out from having his own wife
murdered from from Sharon, so he kind of changed the ending.
(29:22):
And so I think in this this was in you know,
nineteen seventy three, this is at the end of Watergate
and Vietnam cin there's a lot of cynicism in the air.
And he said, this is the way the world works.
It's a dark place, you know, and the bad guys win,
especially rich bad guys tend to win. So, you know,
it was kind of a dark and cynical view, but
(29:43):
that's that's what the world was showing him at the time.
So they had a big argument about that. Polansky in
Town and I think Town later said, yeah, Romans Romans
take was probably the right one, but we did fight
about it, and I didn't like that ending. In fact,
the sequel The Two Jakes, that Nicholson directed, some almost
(30:04):
twenty years later, the Noah Cross character of the John
Houston character is said to have killed himself, which from
the first movie, right, I wouldn't think that guy would
be capable of killing himself.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
Robert was sort of the one.
Speaker 1 (30:21):
Yeah he did, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's not very good.
Did you ever see it? No?
Speaker 3 (30:27):
And that would just the reason why when I say no,
like that makes me believe that it can't be very good,
because if Scott Jack Nicholson in it and Robert Town
wrote it, you would think that it would be a
wonderful movie. And since you never really hear much about it,
(30:48):
I guess I figured.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Well, Nicholson directed it, and it it suffered from that.
And Nicholson isn't really a bad director. He's directed before. Yeah,
you know, so he's no, he's no stranger to that.
But it just this this one, the Two jo The
Two Jakes.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Yeah, what's what's that about?
Speaker 1 (31:15):
Well, uh, it's sort of about the idea Initially was
that town was going to write about power in Los Angeles,
and so there are three kind of elements to to
to that, and one was water and one was oil,
and one was land. So Chinatown was the first one,
and that was going to be about water, and then
the second one was going to be about oil cornering
(31:38):
the oil in the marketing like over one hundred years
ago when oil was discovered in in l A. And
then and then a third movie, which never got written,
was going to be about land.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Uh.
Speaker 1 (31:50):
But but the two Jakes was sort of about an oil.
Speaker 3 (31:57):
On that that on the second that's third one.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Yeah, exactly exactly. You see why the third one never
got off the ground after the second one.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
But you know what's interesting about Deliverance, I thought, is,
uh the score. The score is basically a take off
on dueling bands. I mean, dueling Banjos was a song.
You could look that up, Kaitlin, and it was a
(32:29):
song that had that had already been around, and I
think somebody wrote it and then I think somebody kind
of recorded it.
Speaker 4 (32:38):
But it is used.
Speaker 3 (32:42):
Throughout the entire movie, and I think it's really the
only I mean it it's not exactly dueling bands all
the way through the movie.
Speaker 4 (32:53):
But pretty much it is.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
And I kind of thought that it's not very often
that you hear a song or or or am I wrong?
Speaker 4 (33:03):
Jam?
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Are there a bunch of movies around where one song
is kind of the back None?
Speaker 1 (33:09):
I mean there could be no, there are other movies
around that the dude that I couldn't think of any
right up hand. But uh, but doing Banjo's also was
a song that kind of had a fair amount of
popularity on the radio charts at that time too. It
was sort of a crossoverheait, because you could hear it
on on a M and FM radio back in those
(33:30):
days as well. Right, And it's a great it's a
great scene in the movie when Ronnie Cox walks up
to that kid, you know, that backwoods kid obviously a
product of generations of inbreeding a family who's treating branch. Yeah,
and uh, it's it's a mesmerizing moment in the movie,
isn't it. I Mean, it just really gets you sets
(33:51):
the movie gets you into the right mood for the movie.
Speaker 6 (33:53):
Because you can it's probably the second most famous scene
from that movie.
Speaker 1 (33:58):
Yeah, wouldn't you think?
Speaker 4 (33:59):
Yeah?
Speaker 6 (34:00):
Yeah, but this is interesting.
Speaker 4 (34:03):
So the song was.
Speaker 6 (34:04):
It was composed in nineteen fifty four and then recorded
in nineteen fifty five. The song was made famous in
seventy two from Deliverance, which also led to a successful
lawsuit by the song's composer, as it was used in
the film without their permission.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Wow they did that, they used Wow.
Speaker 4 (34:24):
Crazy.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
They must have thought. They must have thought that was
like traditional folk music or something with no copyright attached
to it. They obviously didn't realize it was copyrighted, or
they wouldn't have used it without, you know, trying to
secure permission. Holy crap. Yeah, interesting, Interesting.
Speaker 3 (34:44):
Well I didn't realize Jim that when they made the
movie the studio said too junkboarman, right, yeah, said to
John Borman, you need two stars. And you know, it
(35:05):
was kind of done a little bit on a budget,
and therefore they don't pay. They don't pay for their music.
But uh, it's kind of done on the budget.
Speaker 4 (35:16):
And they two million, two million dollars. The budget was
two million dollars. I mean, that's a lot of fucking
movie for two million dollars.
Speaker 3 (35:23):
Man. That is even back then. I would thank you,
isn't it, Jim? Two million dollars.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's pretty meager, you know, especially
when you look at it with a Catholic with John Boyd.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
Yes, yeah and yeah from what I from what I
didn't really quite realize it at the time, but that
was almost Ned Batty was completely unknown at them?
Speaker 6 (35:47):
Was he.
Speaker 4 (35:50):
Were people aware of who Ned? Basically?
Speaker 3 (35:53):
I heard that once they got the two stars, they said,
you know, you got the two stars, now we're gonna
go get two people.
Speaker 4 (36:02):
We don't have to pay anything. Ned Batty was one,
and uh it's his first credit.
Speaker 3 (36:08):
It is this first okay, okay, all right? Well that
he he was awfully.
Speaker 4 (36:14):
Good for.
Speaker 3 (36:17):
A guy who'd never been in a movie before. Can
you imagine Jim being an actor and.
Speaker 4 (36:25):
You know, a role.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
I saw Bert Ronolds on something like The Carson Show
one night telling a story about him and Ned Baby
some years after the movie had been made. A few
years after the movie had been made. Baby was saying,
you know, it's still traumatizing to me that scene in
the movie. And Bert said, we'll tell you about why
don't we take a trip down the river and that
will kind of cauterize the wound, It will exercise the demon,
(36:53):
you know, that's haunting you from this and Baty said,
I'm not so sure about that. Come on, let's do it.
So they they float down the river and they come
to the creek without seat and is shot. And the
creek has now been renamed Sodomy Creek. And Reynolds said
that that putting it in a real bad mood at
that point.
Speaker 4 (37:13):
So they actually did that, they actually they.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Read, Yeah, they renamed it Sodomy Creek. Now that's according
to Burt Renolds telling a story.
Speaker 8 (37:24):
Yes, yeah, So I don't know how much you can
how much of that is apocryphal, you know, and hyperbole,
But still I thought it was pretty funny and there's
probably some little element of a kernel.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
Of truth to it, but it was pretty funny. But
that is a I'd read.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
In someplace that Burt Reynolds was responsible for finding uh,
the hit the guy uh who assaults and that baby
his cohort cohort whatever it is cohort?
Speaker 4 (37:59):
How you spell that h O r T cohort?
Speaker 3 (38:02):
Yeah, thank you? Uh uh that that that was a
Bert Reynolds. Fine, and he's the guys kind of got
all the missing teeth and says he's.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Got the pretty small.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
No, she's sure. He sure's got a he's sure got
a pretty mouth.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Pretty mouth, got a pretty mouth.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
There's a John Voyd's so fucking good, John voight Is.
You know we look back and Oh, I wanted to
say something you, Jim, by the way, you told me
recently about a movie about Tombstone. Uh, I'd never heard of.
That was done by a director who had done an
(38:45):
earlier version of Tombstone and then thought like, the history
is all wrong, I'm going to do an updated version
and this is the way his who was that? What
was the name of that?
Speaker 4 (38:57):
Director?
Speaker 1 (38:58):
John Sturgis was a pretty well known mainstream Hollywood director.
He did the original Magnificent seven, Yes he did. He
did uh Gunfight at the OK Corral with Burt Lancaster
and uh and Kirk Douglas, you know, which was a
(39:18):
very fictionalized version of the whole thing, and it actually
does take place and there's a twenty minute gunfight at
the end in a corral and like Clinton gets killed
and Noll all kinds of you know, crap, all that
is going on. But he didn't he wasn't really happy
with that, Sturgis, wasn't he? Then he then he made
that movie in about fifty seven. He made Magnificent Seven
(39:40):
shortly after that, and then he made a movie I
loved as a kid, The Great Escape. Yes, and and
work was Queen twice there right, Yeah, yeah, I brought
back to Steve McQueen. Charles Bronson is in that movie
as well, and uh and James Coburn. Yeah, used a
couple of people from the Magnificent Seven cast in the
grade of Scape and uh and James Garner and uh.
(40:02):
And then a few years later he got Garner to
agree to play I think Gardner plays Wide Earth. But
he got Garnered to be in a movie about Tombstone.
He wanted to go back and retell the story, but
tell it more accurately, a bit more. I think he
got kind of enamored in the history, as you know
that can happen to people who look into it and
(40:22):
reading that book. Right now, we got the galleys up
and it's called Hour of the Gun and stars James Garner,
and I don't know who else is in it, but
I told you that that John Boyd is in the
movie Well made in nineteen sixty seven.
Speaker 3 (40:40):
Now you can look this up. This this is John
Voyce's first credit to John Voycee, I think it is.
Speaker 4 (40:46):
It's got one line in it. I watched it, Jim
did you? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (40:50):
And it fucking is just this horrible fucking movie. It
just fucking stay you know. I just had seen, uh,
who's the who's the lead. We were just Jimmy James,
James Garner, James Garner. I just seen Garner in that
(41:12):
movie that the American Americanization yea, yeah, of what is it?
Speaker 4 (41:18):
Americanization of what.
Speaker 1 (41:20):
It's called the Americanization of Emily. It's it's a Paddy
Chayevsky script I absolutely loved, made in nineteen sixty three
or four, I believe world War two movie, very cynical,
very self serving. Garner has the lead in it with
Julie Andrews. Yes, James Colburn is.
Speaker 4 (41:39):
Gulie Andrews is young in that. That was.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
I didn't even almost almost didn't sing.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
In this movie. She doesn't even sing in the movie.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
No, no, no, and that and that performance of Garner's
is just fucking brilliant. And that movie is really really good.
And so when I, oh, I'll tell you who's also
fucking terrible in it, which is you know, I don't like,
you know, whatever, But Jason Robarts plays Doc Holiday and
(42:13):
boy is he fucking like like just almost unwatchable.
Speaker 4 (42:19):
I mean, Jason wrote he must he must have been
on the wagon that he was born old.
Speaker 1 (42:27):
Was he in sixty seven? He would have been like
probably he didn't seem that old, wouldn't you be a
little older? He's playing Doc.
Speaker 3 (42:35):
Well, he's he's definitely older than thirty two or thirty
three or whatever Doc Holiday was.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
And how old did Doc Holiday?
Speaker 3 (42:44):
And I know Johnny Ringo was thirty three when he died,
and uh, I know, so I don't. Yeah, Holliday was
about the same age, but that's what I thought too.
Doc Holliday was about the same agent. Yeah, yeah, you know,
obviously they get a way, Yeah, they get away with
(43:04):
with stuff like that. But this movie, I just, you know,
I watched it and I just it's, you know, you
got Jason Robarts in a movie, and you know he's
playing Don Holiday, and uh was it.
Speaker 4 (43:19):
John Voids first movie?
Speaker 6 (43:21):
Second movie?
Speaker 4 (43:21):
Second movie?
Speaker 3 (43:22):
Okay, because I I wanted to pay attention to it
because Jimmy had told me they was in it, and
he's there and you sort of see him in the background.
Uh all through the He's part of the like kind
of cowboy Robert Ryan is it Robert Ryan who plays
(43:46):
Robert Ryan plays uh I Clanton and and and okay.
Speaker 4 (43:54):
And so and I Clanton is sort of the.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
He's portrayed completely differently than than what Stephen Lang did. Now,
Stephen Lang was brilliant, and but he's kind of portrayed,
you know, there's it is a it is a little
bit more closer to the truth of what of what
(44:23):
went down, but there are still a lot of a
lot of problems with it.
Speaker 4 (44:28):
And then and and and.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
It was just like watching Paint dry Man. It was
just they were just it was just terrible. Anyway, Well,
it didn't it obviously didn't do very well.
Speaker 4 (44:44):
How old was Jason Robarts when he did well.
Speaker 6 (44:47):
He was born in nineteen twenty two, so if you
want to do the math on that, well.
Speaker 1 (44:50):
In what year was he was about forty he was
about forty five. And in the movie, doesn't he play
like a world or a Civil War veteran? And he's
I think he's portrayed as older than the brothers.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
That's one of the things that they got wrong, I
think is that they do portray him as a civil
war that yeah, that's love.
Speaker 4 (45:09):
Yeah, yes, yeah. Uh.
Speaker 6 (45:13):
Anyway, well, if you want to go back to Deliverance
for a minute, Yeah, I got a funny story growing up. Okay,
probably about fifteen years ago you had the inspiration to
pick up the banjo and you would sit in that
house and thumb that fucking Deliverance song day and night
(45:33):
and drive my mom up a fucking wall with your
little banjo that you decided you were going to start learning.
Speaker 4 (45:43):
How old are you when that was going down?
Speaker 6 (45:45):
I was probably again I said, fifteen years ago is
probably longer than that. I was probably like twelve thirteen
something like that.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
Yeah, I I I your mother was at a doctor's
or some sort of of like minor surgery going on
with her with you, uh, and I kind of got left,
like okay, we'll come pick pick us, pick us up
in three hours. I don't think it was you. I
(46:11):
think it was something to do with your mom. And
I was wandering around that neighborhood. Santa Monica would have
walked to this store and it was a cheap banjo,
it was. It costs like thirty dollars or something like that,
and uh, yeah, I was like that dueling banjo thing,
and it did.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
It did drive my.
Speaker 3 (46:35):
Uh Caitlin's mother, Gina, she still like still talks about it.
Speaker 1 (46:44):
Damn banjo.
Speaker 3 (46:45):
Yeah yeah, I mean it's you know it, you know,
a banjo's not like you don't really strum.
Speaker 4 (46:54):
I mean you can, but not really the way that
that it's played. I've always liked, you know, what do
they call it? Blue grass? Bluegrass music?
Speaker 3 (47:03):
Yeah, yeah, I've always kind of had a thing about bluegrass,
and I've always liked certain elements of bluegrass music, especially
the banjo. And you'll get a really great banjo player
and a really great guitar player together, and uh I
could you know I.
Speaker 1 (47:25):
Yeah, yeah, well, you know, Steve Martin had a banjo that.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
Was Steve Martin was very yeah, very good. I know
because I tried to learn how to play it, you know,
and and Steve Martin was.
Speaker 4 (47:40):
Yeah, he was. He was fabulous.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
It was it was sort of great prop of his,
but he was really good at it.
Speaker 3 (47:47):
He doesn't play that thing too, yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
absolutely all right. So what I saw I saw I
watched not all that long ago, Catch twenty two, you know,
the movie Mike Nichols director in nineteen seventy based on
Joseph Heller's famous book, and John Voight has a role
(48:09):
in that, playing the really cynical war profiteers. Yeah, and
my Minderbinder And god is he terrific in that movie.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
He is just wonderful in that movie. That's it. I
thought that movie held up very well when I watched
it again not long ago, and he was He's just
fabulous in that. So it is fun to go back
and watch some of his earlier performances, you know, after
Midnight Cowboy, a couple of movies that he came up
with after that, and Deliberance and Catch twenty two were both,
(48:40):
you know, really rewarding experiences to sit through.
Speaker 3 (48:44):
Again, I'm trying to think I watched another movie of
his now I'm trying to think of the name of it,
and oh, oh, I know what it was. You know,
it was really disappointed it because I'd hurt. I thought
this movie be John Singletary. I think it was the director.
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, he did a movie. It was
(49:07):
kind of it seemed like it was kind of based
on that race riot that went on, not that that
thing that happened where they burn up all the black
businesses and what what was that?
Speaker 4 (49:17):
What was it? Well, in history, it wasn't that exactly,
but uh.
Speaker 1 (49:23):
It was, it was, It wasn't. There's a probably the
best known is in Tulsa about one hundred years ago
in the nineteen twenties. Tulsa had a kind of what
they called the Black Wall Street and there was a
massacre that occurred and burned up that whole area and
killed a bunch of people.
Speaker 4 (49:39):
It was real.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
I read a book about it for a production company
not long ago, and it was a really horrific thing.
There was something similar, I think that happened in North
Carolina and that's the incident that Single Singleton made a
movie about.
Speaker 4 (49:51):
Do you know what the name of that movie is,
Caitlin or did Jim? Do you know? The name of it?
Speaker 1 (49:55):
Would be John Singleton look at John Yeah, yeah, yeah,
and Boys in the Hood guy yeah.
Speaker 4 (50:02):
And it's got a couple of uh okay, I'm trying
to think of the.
Speaker 6 (50:13):
Their connection with Mike Nichols. What is there a connection
with Mike Nichols the director?
Speaker 1 (50:19):
Not really John.
Speaker 3 (50:23):
It was called Rose Yes, yes, Rosewood is yeah yeah okay,
uh and it's got a good cast, Uh, Michael Rookers
in it, and he plays Michael Rookers pretty good at
playing Alabama boy, you know that. Yeah, that Alabama hick
(50:46):
with the spin and uh, it's quite a good cast.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
Uh yeah, yeah yeah, Lauren, Lauren d Yeah, Michael Rookers. Yeah,
that's a good calst.
Speaker 4 (50:59):
But it's not very good. I didn't, I didn't. I didn't.
I think it was I think he's not with us anymore.
Speaker 7 (51:08):
No, Yeah, so I guess I can say that he was.
He was a classmate of our, of our friend Adam Nobak,
who we have on the show before. They were the
only two guys in their USC screenwriting class who wrote
screenplays as undergraduates that got optioned. And Singleton's was Boys
in the Hood it got made, and Adams was called
(51:31):
Conversations with.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
A Cannibal and it never got made. But Adam and
John were classmates, and Adam knew him pretty well. Yeah,
and he died a few years ago. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (51:42):
Yeah, just just to be fair, Not that I've seen
the movie, but it does have good Rotten Tomato scores
on it. Both audience and critics seem to like it
quite a bit.
Speaker 1 (51:51):
Rosewood.
Speaker 3 (51:51):
Yeah, well, you know, everybody's got a different opinion. Everybody
has a different you know. I mean it had a
high production value.
Speaker 1 (52:00):
It it got favorable reviews generally, but it was.
Speaker 3 (52:03):
You know, that's you know, I was looking forward to
watching it because you know, we've been talking about Voight.
I thought, like, okay, John Void in this and John
Voight's great, and John Voight is always good. John Voight
is like always good.
Speaker 4 (52:18):
He said that.
Speaker 3 (52:19):
Did that movie with like that big snake on the
ConA Ana Conda and.
Speaker 1 (52:26):
Something like that. He was terrific.
Speaker 3 (52:28):
He's well, but he's great. He was great Anaconda. He's
the only thing in Anaconda that is like even watching.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
Watching that's a movie.
Speaker 6 (52:37):
That's one of those is that's one of those movies.
It's about a giant snake in It's not supposed to
be like a fucking theatrical masterpiece, but for what it is,
ice cube in it and Jennifer Lopez like it's a
it's like a so what you call like a good
bad movie.
Speaker 3 (52:53):
Okay, okay, okay, but John Voight, if you watch John
Voight in that movie, John Wait is fucking there. He
is like the best thing in it from an acting standpoint.
Do you you had a question that you wanted to
ask Jim and.
Speaker 6 (53:12):
I, Yeah, but we're out of time for that. That's
a whole discussion.
Speaker 4 (53:16):
All right, we'll hey, Jim, are you Jim?
Speaker 2 (53:20):
Let me?
Speaker 4 (53:23):
Okay? Uh.
Speaker 3 (53:25):
I just want to thank everybody that uh listens to
us and seems to enjoy it. I love reading the
comments that you write, and I, you know, I want
to hear about other movies.
Speaker 1 (53:44):
Respond We are responding to them too.
Speaker 3 (53:46):
Yeah, well I don't respond. I don't really know how
to do very much. I can read him and actually
have responded responding. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I actually did respond questions.
Speaker 1 (53:58):
You know.
Speaker 4 (53:59):
I just I'm the actor who goes like.
Speaker 3 (54:03):
Oh, this guy loves it, this guy loves it, this
guy loves it, this guy loves it, this guy loves it,
this guy loves this guy loves it.
Speaker 4 (54:09):
No, this guy fucking hates it.
Speaker 3 (54:10):
All right, pick up my phone, fuck you motherfucker, Like, well,
quit watching it, you fucking you know. Yeah, we only
we only pay attention to our bad reviews. Okay, so
(54:34):
on that, Oh uh okay, so I guess we should.
I'm used to be part of the podcast.
Speaker 4 (54:41):
Are you doing your your thing? On when oh you.
Speaker 3 (54:46):
Can't well, never mind, all right, So that's the end
of this. Thank you everybody. I'm so happy that you're
watching and listening, and I'm having so much fun. I'm
working with my my son, Kaylin, who I love dearly
like I do all my children, and he just gives
(55:07):
us a chance to get together and hang out and
kind of uh talk talk movies, and I'm just really
enjoying the situation. I'm having lunch with Adam by the
way on Wednesday, and so we'll find out maybe a
little bit more about Onslaught, but probably I'm not going
(55:28):
to be able to you know, these days you can't
really talk about very much. So but I know we
got Jim Cameron coming up in the future, and uh
we'll Shelton to and n and yeah, that's on you, bro,
that's on you because well it's tour schedule too, because
you you have some signings coming up.
Speaker 6 (55:49):
I believe, well we got you got the big comic
con coming up at the end of this month, so
we'll probably try.
Speaker 4 (55:56):
San Diego, San Diego Comic Con anyway.
Speaker 3 (56:02):
Okay, so, uh can you do this tomorrow, Jim? Yeah,
I consolutely Instead of like doing uh another one and
you cut this wherever you want to cut it.
Speaker 4 (56:19):
Uh, we'll just we'll just do it tomorrow.
Speaker 3 (56:23):
And just because I get a little tired of talking
unless not talking about myself, and then I can go
on all day long, you know, but when we start
talking about other things, I get a little tired. So
uh we'll get back to your gym on the time
and uh we'll do the next one tomorrow.
Speaker 1 (56:45):
Okay, sounds good. Sure I can, I can, I can.
You know. I have a few things I need to
do tomorrow, but nothing that I can't reread or do
around eye searchery, recording for sure, not shirt, just just
you know, just be stuff.
Speaker 4 (57:07):
Here's the music.
Speaker 3 (57:10):
Don't know whom you let to a strange begin show?
Which hand would you choose to let the way?
Speaker 4 (57:17):
What crow to you?
Speaker 1 (57:19):
Wait?
Speaker 4 (57:19):
Pound the ol villain? How would you look about someone
dirtier than.
Speaker 3 (57:25):
You undering music?
Speaker 1 (57:29):
Why don't you let them be?
Speaker 2 (57:31):
Carry on with our shoes? Won't you? Jo
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