Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Hello, Hello, and welcome to Just Say No.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm your host, Maria Caliber's and you're listening to KCAA
Radio ten fifty AM one O six point five FM
on your dial today. I'm so excited because I'm reporting
to you. I'm broadcasting to you from the National Cannabis
Industry Association, the Trade Association, where I just got finished
(00:31):
moderating an incredible, incredible, incredible panel on consumer protection when
it comes to advertising and marketing and claims in the
cannabis space. What can you believe? What's marketing hype? Where's
the mainstream media? Why are they not reporting on the
issues you need to know? Well, we're going to answer
all of that. Our goal today is to tap into
(00:54):
their expertise and share some information to support or You're
getting a little bit more information that's transparent, authentic, trustworthy,
substantiated despite this patchwork of incongruent state and federal regulations.
(01:16):
We're gonna focus on six key areas marketing and advertising,
making and substantiating health and environmental claims, social media and
influencer endorsements. And for my businesses out there, my business
owners and my fellow entrepreneurs and pioneers, in this space.
(01:37):
We're going to look at some of the intellectual property protections.
I mean, can you get a federal trademark? Can you
get federal protection for something that's federally illegaloil No, But
there's some interesting things we're gonna learn. We're also gonna
look at texting and call and compliance. I mean, we
don't want miners getting text about cannabis.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
We're gonna look at that.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
And then I'd like to wrap the show up with
our panel talking about Schedule three predictions and the importance
the importance of just continuing to spark this conversation to
share information from reliable sources who can substantiate what they're saying,
(02:21):
because knowledge is power. And I also want to just
help connect deserving brands with people like myself who were
looking for natural alternatives to pharmaceuticals and alcohol. So, without
further ado, let's go.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
By twenty twenty. Bank of America and Merrill Lynch estimate
that will grow to thirty five billion dollars, and many
experts believe it could eventually reach two hundred billion dollars
each and every year.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Up this, Scott.
Speaker 5 (03:07):
Je, let me, I can see so much your moroses.
Speaker 6 (03:19):
You, Moses, I'm a betterfly who is on a begon
taking me a while to get it. Had to live
and cry, to appreciate your life and what you give.
His words, when you're holding me, when you hold me
so close, i'one better and under your skin, I want.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
To leave them all right.
Speaker 7 (03:44):
Good afternoon. I'm Brian Gilbert n ci IS, Director of
Engagement and Experience, and I'm really excited to have you
all here. Today's session is led by members of our
Marketing Advertising Committee. I'd like to introduce our moderator, Maria Calabresee,
CEO of green bee Life. Maria is Passionate, is a
passionate excuse me, advocate for cannabis education and founder of
(04:05):
green bee Life, a pioneering streaming platform that promotes transparency
in green living. Her personal journey from skeptic to a
staunch advocate was inspired by our own experiencing overcoming chronic
pain through cannabis, which led to her dedication to providing
reliable information to others. Maria, great to have you here.
I'm really excited for you to lead today's conversation. With that,
(04:27):
I'll turn it over to you to introduce our Esteam panel.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Oh Brian, thank you, and thank you to the National
Cannabis Industry Association for all the hard work you do,
and Brian for putting this together and everyone for joining
us today. We've got a great panel, as Brian mentioned,
and I'm happy to introduce myself, Maria Calbery's founder green
Bee Life Media Platform, and the rest.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Of the panel.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
We're going to be joined by legal experts Helen McMurray
and Walter chapl from McMurray and Schuster and Emily Kelleher
who is the vice president of Bena Leaves Marketing. And
Emily has a couple of distinctions, but I'm gonna have
them all fill you in on their backgrounds. As well
(05:17):
as being the vice president for Bena Leaves of Business
and Government Affairs, she is also the marketing chair for
the Ohio Cannabis Coalition. I thought it would be nice
for each of them to introduce themselves personally. Talk a
little bit, guys about your expertise, and I mean, I
think one of the most fascinating things we do have
(05:40):
to unlock compliance.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yes, but I'm always.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Interested to learn how experts like this have come to
the cannabis space. So Helen, how about will you tell
us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 8 (05:53):
I've been practicing law almost forty years now, and about
seven years ago. You don't think and your legal career're
going to get to actually open up into something that's
never been done before. But sure enough, you know, Ohio
passes medical marijuana, and we ended up getting a lot
of the litigation that came out of the set aside program,
(06:14):
and so we worked to try to defend that program
and allow our clients get their licenses, which they did.
But we work in heavily regulated industries, kind of on
the consumer protection screen, if you will.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Our firm was founded by the.
Speaker 8 (06:31):
Attorney General of Ohio and a number of us that
have worked for her. I served as a regulator under
the Attorney General. I would headed up the consumer protection section,
and probably most analogous to this industry, worked for example,
on the Attorney's general lawsuit against the tobacco industry.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
And even though.
Speaker 8 (06:52):
That was twenty years ago, we're finding now that a
lot of the same kind of claims that were struck
down with ours to tobacco cartoon characters, you know, using
things that look like kids candy or those types of things,
are now popping up in this industry. For the last
twenty years, I've been focusing racially just done helping companies
comply with advertising and have spent I think three years
(07:17):
now on the marketing committee here. And you're going to
be hearing all about the advertising guidelines that are firm
roote and now we're trying to roll them out to you.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
So they'll be useful.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
That's fantastic. And I say this with all due respect.
Every time I read something about unlocking compliance. The patchwork
of inconsistent laws of reconciling state with federal has been
referred to as kind of dysfunctional laws. And I love
talking to you and Chad because everybody, this is not
going to be dried today. I could say they're lovely.
(07:47):
They put the they put the fun in dysfunction. Now, okay,
I kind of resist. I couldn't resist, all right, Chad,
why don't you tell us a little bit about your background.
Speaker 9 (07:57):
Well, it's going to be hard to live up to
it after how in that glowing introduction, Maria, But thank
you so much.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
My name is Chad Blackham.
Speaker 9 (08:04):
I have the singular honor of working with Helen McMurray
at the law firm McMurray and Schuster. We had the
extraordinary opportunity to get involved with the Ohio's medical marijuana
system back in twenty eighteen, have been in it since
its transition to a non medical or adult use market
in the last year, and we've also branched out into
a couple of other states with our national practice as
(08:26):
Hele Mensual. We operate in a lot of really highly
complex niche areas, so the transition of the cannabis industry
was kind of a natural segue for us, with a
lot of our marketing and advertising bona fides carrying over.
So we bring a really unique coin of perspective to
this and I hope everyone here will learn a lot
for your own marketing advertising activities. In addition to working
(08:46):
with Helen, I am also a board member with the
Natural Therapies Education Foundation, a education focused nonprofit for medical marijuana,
and I'm also a professor at Capital Law School, where
I teach their Cannabis Law and Policy class.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
That's fantastic. I'm just curious when did the university start
allowing these types of classes?
Speaker 9 (09:08):
Wonderful question, Maria. This year, Actually, I'm the very first
to develop and teach the course.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
All right, well we're surrounded by pioneers.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Thank you, Thank you so much, Chad, so Emily, Emily,
you're gonna talk to us about how this all applies
in actual business operations and the importance of it.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Man.
Speaker 10 (09:32):
Yeah, and my journey, I would say it's unique.
Speaker 11 (09:36):
But the more that I learned about others and just
my colleagues and the industry, we all kind of share
some more stories on our lives. I've never been in
an industry that it's so many just incredibly passionate human beings.
The kindness, the humanization of the industry has just been
incredible to watch. But I got in as an advocate
(09:58):
on the bidicial side of things, you know, plant medicine based,
and worked out in Colorado and moved back here and
actually opened the first retail space in central Ohio and
Columbus in the dispensary retail. And I've now been with
benal Leaves going on my third year, just doing marketing advertising.
(10:20):
You know, obviously I work at the governmental affairs side
of things as well. But as we all know, we
all wear one point five million hats in this business
given the given the day of the week. So thank
you so much for having me, and it's lovely to
be here.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Well, your insights are going to be you know, Helen
and chat are going to set the table for the
legal landscape, and then your insights are going to be
valuable for aligning compliance with actual business growth if such
a thing is possible.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
We're all we're all trying.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
So as Brian was very good at giving a lot
of information about my background, so I'll just say a
little bit about what I hope to do today is
to contribute insights from the media perspective, and I'm going
to speak to the unique challenge is imbalancing visibility with compliance, right,
(11:12):
so particularly in digital advertising where cannabis ads are heavily
restricted on platforms as you know.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Google, Facebook. But there are tips I've.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Learned along the way on how to work with compliance
while maximizing impact across advertising and marketing channels including social media.
All right, So, without further ado, I think we have
to understand the rules of the road. So I'm going
to hand it over to Helen and Chad and we're
going to start with the framework for Marketing and Advertising Compliance.
Speaker 8 (11:48):
Great, thank you so much, Maria. Well, one of the
things that I realized, especially starting on the marketing committee
for ENDSCIA, was that nobody realized that there are advertising
laws that apply to cannabis beyond the ones that are
coming out of like in Ohio, we have a Division
of Cannabis Control, and unfortunately, there is a substantial body
(12:09):
of law at the state, federal, and sometimes even local
level that does apply to everything that's being sold to consumers,
even medical marijuana, recreational cannabis and the like. And so
the compliance guidelines that I referenced before really just a
kind of very high overview, so you know that they
are out there, and I know we've got this one
marketing person on and a bunch of operators, so that
(12:33):
you know generally what's to be expected because there's a
little commonality between the states.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
And the federal laws.
Speaker 8 (12:40):
And then later on in today's presentation we'll get into
the specifics. And so what I wanted to talk about
first was what we call you DAP, which is an
unfair or deceptive act or practice. And so if you
are selling a product to a consumer, you are not
allowed to make unfair deceptive acts or practices or any
claimed it are abusive. One of the problems with this law,
(13:04):
and it's the state law as well as the federal law,
is that it's very subjective. So there's not going to
be a book that's going to tell you what phrases
you can use to describe your product in which ones
you can't. You basically have to kind of use your
common sense.
Speaker 10 (13:16):
You know.
Speaker 8 (13:17):
I work with legal professionals like our firm that has
experience in understanding all of this, but I think we're
all consumers too, right, So when we're making a claim
and it's not particularly clear, you know that there's things
that you're excluding that could potentially be deceptive. And so
those are the things that you have to watch out for.
(13:37):
The state laws and the federal law. The federal law
is enforced by the Federal Trade Commission. The state law
is generally enforced by the state attorney general, and both
of those enforcers have taken actions against cannabis companies in
the last five years.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
And so you want.
Speaker 8 (13:55):
To be concerned that when you are putting messages out there,
that not only are they true, okay, but that you
are clearly and conspicuously disclosing, you know, any limitations at all,
and that can be about your product or it could
be about the purchasing of the product. Are you are
you not disclosing the fact that you're selling something, And
(14:18):
this can apply, for example, also to CBD products. But
then there's a shipping peak fee, there's a handling fee,
there's a credit card fee.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Those types of things as well.
Speaker 8 (14:27):
So that's kind of the general framework that we're looking
at in terms of these consumer protection laws, and the
remedies are really steep. Twenty five thousand dollars civil penalty
most states, a little bit higher at the federal level,
and that's per transaction. So if you're selling thousands of
items to people or making millions of phone calls or
(14:48):
text messages, and we'll talk about them a little bit too,
that's a multiplier of twenty five thousand dollars. And you
can also be enjoined by a court. A pork can
stop you from selling your product, a work can stop
you from making those claims. So really, you know, and
those are what the Attorney's General and the FTC have
done in the last five years or so.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
Chad, you want to.
Speaker 9 (15:07):
Add on to that, absolutely, So, Helen, you touched on
a couple of really important points. I think the most
scary potentially also the most important, though, are some of
those penalties you talked about. Something that's really interesting about cannabis.
We're all aware of the federal prohibition, we're all aware
of the supremacy issues and the dual legality the federal
(15:28):
and state level. But what's interesting, and a lot of
people might not know, is that the federal government and
state officials have actually gone after cannabis company is quite
a bit notwithstanding that dichotomy.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
We'll talk a bit.
Speaker 9 (15:40):
About it more later, but some of the specific areas
that they're focusing on include things like health claims, and
when we're talking about marketing advertising here, I want to
touch on something Helen mentioned out mentioned at the outset
as well, which is this applies to pretty much any
statement your business is making, audio visual in the newspaper,
in vmail, on a social media blog post, really any
(16:02):
type of output of consumer might see is influenced by this.
So we have a couple specific examples here, things like
packaging and imagery considerations telling me that great point about
avoiding cartoons or images that target children, as well as
specific state advertising rules. But we all also have something
called constructive notice, and what happens is when a violation
(16:24):
is found on a local level, it goes into a
state repository. We have a notice with the Attorney General
here and then that puts all other businesses on notice
of that specific violation. What this means is in your
particular state, in the case of Ohio, for instance, there
might be dozens or even hundreds of other type of
view dept violations that aren't in the revised code, aren't
(16:45):
in the industry of code, and aren't really readily available
if you don't know where to look. But that doesn't
mean you don't have to follow them. So there's a
lot of rules and regulations you have to follow here
and they apply to all activities you do. And the
last thing I'll touch on before turning it over again,
and is that enforcement issue these state ud APP laws,
And when you hear youd APP, I want you to
(17:06):
think of that as synonymous with consumer protection. One of
the reasons a lot of companies aren't aware of these
is because how different the name is, even though it's
the exact same thing. But these also provide for consumer
private rights of action, meaning consumers can sue you as well,
so you don't have to worry just about that FTC
and the FDA and the state attorneys general and your
local governance body and state municipality. Consumers can sue as well,
(17:28):
and Helen noted some of those penalties at the federal
level they're smaller at the consumer level, but they can
still stack the exact same way. And when you run
to consumer class actions, you're looking at hundreds or potentially
thousands of violations in millions and fines.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
You know, Emily, thank you Chad. Before you jump in
with the operational it was just occurring to me, and
what I was doing was, I'm want to encourage everyone
to try to think about how your current practices fit
into this regulatory landscape. And I remember it's it's complicated,
but it's it's crucial the role of compliance, but it
(18:07):
gives us an opportunity to build consumer trust as well.
So while we have a lot of restrictions that Fortune
five hundred companies take for granted, we have that opportunity
so putting it into practice operationally, I want to throw
it to you, Emily.
Speaker 10 (18:24):
Sure.
Speaker 11 (18:24):
I think the one thing that you just touched on
consumer trust, right, and I think that's something that just
especially in the cannabis industry as a whole. We all
take pride in you know, triple tested, we use you know,
uv CR SERTs, making sure that we're not using naming
conventions that are attracted to children. I think that's one
of the things of an industry that we can hang
(18:45):
our hat on and is a differentiator. I think what's
important to note here as well is at Bentleys, we
work with a lot of different companies that are just
out of state, and so we do a lot of
copacking and white labeling here in Ohio and been fascinating
when it comes to just different regulatory compliance from state
(19:05):
to state is that it's so inconsistent in a lot
of ways. Where I mean to Helen and Chad's point
as well. You know, some of this packaging could easily
be approved in another state, such as making a claim
you know, this product will make you sleepy, this product
could make you feel awake. We're in Ohio, We're totally
(19:26):
handicapped from being able to use any of those types
of phrasing, and so it does prevent a little bit
of an educational gap between us and the consumer because
we can't fully express the product's potential and potential effects
on the consumer, and so I think that then falls
back on us as licensees, as educators ourselves to go
(19:47):
out into the public to you know, teach people about
cannabinoids and terpene profiles, right, And it's not just the
high etc. Percentage products. There's so much more that go
into this plant. And so I'm hoping that eventually someday
we will be able to use just a little bit
more words and just descriptive language to at least try
(20:11):
to explain what certain products can do. And of course
that's going to take more normalization of the medical cannabis
community itself and just the plant medicine itself, which is
so important, you know, especially in Ohio we're seeing as
rise of adult use, and it's so incredibly important that
we also lift up the medical cannabis program in the
(20:33):
same weight, right, the same level, to give that, you know,
the plant medicine the normalization that it needs. That we
can eventually move into these double blinded Pacibo studies and
this actual medical research that we can gain to be
able to make these claims right so to speak, and say,
we actually do know that if you take this dose
(20:53):
it'll help with inflammation it'll help with sleep, it'll help
with nausea versus.
Speaker 10 (20:58):
Now, you know a lot of what we say, and.
Speaker 11 (21:00):
We do work with a lot of different medical professionals here,
but you know they're they're you know what they say
and retort it's like, oh, it's anecdotal, right, we don't
have the science and the data to back this up.
But that's why I personally it's a passion thing for me,
you know, to really hold up the medical part of
(21:21):
this program and the medicinal benefits of the plant. And
I think that's something that we, especially at Bendley, has
tried to do with our educational efforts.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yes, and I plugged the educational efforts. From a media perspective,
it's it's good news and the bad news. It's what
fills my energy pockets is the opportunity to educate. Now,
how do you monetize that as a media company, that's
another webinar. But media platforms, they're uniquely positioned to either
you know, uphold or undermine consumer trust, and the consequences
(21:56):
to the media companies failing to adhere to the advertised
and standards are severe. You could lose your license, you
could be completely wiped out. I don't know if people remember.
It was a wonderful lifestyle platform publisher out of Canada
called Civilized, and I thought their content was very, very transparent. Honest,
(22:23):
it really was consumer friendly and it was highlighting the
lifestyle and how the plant can enrich your life. But
I mean they were in Canada where it was federally legal,
and Canada's advertising federal advertising rules were so strict that
I mean, they just couldn't attract enough sponsors or advertisers
(22:49):
or media partnerships because it's tough to balance as a
media publisher, myself included. I want to give the brands
who are doing it right the visibility. I'd love to
open up my platform to advertising. But the rub and
why we're not seeing more media companies involved is it's
(23:13):
very very hard to all the states of the different
compliance rules and regulations. You could geo block, but it's
just there's so much exposure and mainstream media they're not
going to assume that risk. So we're on the heels
of eight over eight decades of prohibition, which was the
(23:37):
whole subject matter in the plant was maligned with miscommunication,
and there's going to have to be content that educates
and media companies hands are somewhat tied. I mean, I'm
boldly going where all of us, right, We're all boldly
going where no man, woman, they has gone before.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
So kudos to all of us.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
But it's tough, and to see the brands educating is invaluable.
So Helen and Chad, before we move on to the
next topic, I was just wondering if you could just
speak to any advice on how brands can avoid or
(24:24):
even media companies. If someone comes to me with content
and I think they have a wonderful product, is there
any advice you have on how brands or publishers can
avoid unintentional violations with who we target as an audience
packaging advertising, especially when Chad you mentioned.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Which kind of scares me to death that there's.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
These rules and regulations even down to the local level,
that we might not even be aware of yet.
Speaker 8 (24:56):
Quick question to the people that you're doing business, how
do you know this is true?
Speaker 10 (25:01):
You know?
Speaker 4 (25:01):
With what's your basis for saying this? As simple as that?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Oh wow, wow, that's good.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
That's good.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
See guys, you gotta gotta get the lawyers. You gotta
get the lawyers.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Well, that's always the right answer, Maria.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
I love it. I love it good.
Speaker 9 (25:22):
Not to be too cheeky here either, but honestly, the
best thing you can do is substantiate your claims. And
I promise I need even time that with your question
onto this slide here, But this claim substantiation. So when
when you ask the question we have a potential consumer
protection violation?
Speaker 5 (25:42):
What goes into it? How do we avoid it?
Speaker 9 (25:44):
The name of the game, and the main thing you
want to do is you have to substantiate every single
claim you make. So what is claim substantiation on a
very basic level is backing up any claims you make
with regard to your product. Emily made a fantastic point.
When you say this product can help you with sleep
or appetite or something to that effect, those are claims
that need to be backed up.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
As we noted earlier, these apply to all types.
Speaker 9 (26:08):
Of claims as well, audio, visual, written, anything, and most
importantly in the cannabis space, they also specifically apply to
health claims. Something like this product to help with inflammation,
it may help with your appetite. CBD is often advertised
as having neuroprotective properties, right, neurocognitive properties, All of these
(26:29):
absolutely have to be supported by health claims, specifically reliable
incompetent scientific evidence. In order to make a health claim
regarding a product, you need reliable and competent scientific evidence. Now,
as we noted before, Maria, you and Emily talked a
bit about this, this is a little tricky under the
FTC and FDA where cannabis has been illegal for almost
(26:50):
around like seventy eighty years. So where are all these
reliable and competent scientific studies.
Speaker 5 (26:56):
Thankfully, we're getting a few more with.
Speaker 9 (26:57):
The impending rescheduling and some changes the Drug Free Workplace Act,
but it's a real problem. So claim substantiation is the
number one way you can avoid these U dept. Violations,
especially with health claims. You want to make sure you're
really on top of them, having every single claim you're
making regarding a product, cannabis or otherwise vetted for substantiation,
(27:18):
especially health claims.
Speaker 8 (27:20):
Last year the FTC really kind of upgraded what's needed
and became specific and you just can't make these claims
very lately. We're talking about the claims that are supported
by medical research, and it can't just be one study
that you buy and shop a doctor and he says, oh, yeah,
(27:41):
whatever you want him to say. It's got to be
a body of medical research that generally supports what you're saying.
They have also indicated that that medical research study has
to be supported by random controlled human trials, and so
it goes far above just somebody's opinion. And also it
(28:01):
has to can't include I think somebody mentioned the anecdotal evidence.
You can't be out there saying that something cured your
cancer and have three or four consumers, you know, put
their quote up there. Anecdotal evidence is irrelevant when it
comes to substantiating health claim.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
We're restricted because we need these peer reviewed articles. We
need this medical research. As you said, we need more
than just pre clinical trials. But with the FDA stalling
on evaluating the efficacy, I mean, of course they approve
that in the pharmaceutical drug EPI dialects, but as a
food supplement or vitamin supplement, we're kind of in no
(28:43):
man's land. So it's a bit Listen, this isn't for
the faint of heart. We're forging the way, and this
is why we need the National Canvas Industry Association and
trade organizations and the advocacy.
Speaker 8 (28:59):
But yeah, and we're seeing now, Maria, you know, we're
looking at more of the safety issues.
Speaker 4 (29:04):
You know, failure.
Speaker 8 (29:05):
Part part of a health substantiation claim is making sure
that you're identifying what the warnings are. And we saw
three different state attorneys general, including a whole swath of
cases by the California Attorney General, say, you know, with
the cannabis related product, you did not indicate what the
warnings were, and that's a consumer protection violation. And really
(29:26):
we're seeing a lot of them in a Delta eight,
but that goes for all different types of cannabis as
well with regards to providing warnings, and your failure to
do that can also be considered a u deper consumer
protection violation.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
That's a great point.
Speaker 9 (29:38):
And you know, Maria, directly to your direct point that
you actually just mentioned. The reason we're in no man's
land with all of this with regards to foods and
beverages is because of the Food Drugging Cosmetic Act. And
what this Act does is it regulates all ingredients that
go into food and beverages. The Act basically says, unless
the ingredient you're putting in has been peer reviewed and
(30:01):
previously established as generally recognized as safe or grass. Ironically enough,
unless the product has been recognized as grass as go
through a very very lengthy peer review prior review process. Now,
the issue of course here is that CBD has not
been previously declared grass, So things like CBD foods and beverages,
(30:21):
notwithstanding the twenty teen Hemp Bill, can still be illegal
under federal law. And actually we have a question in
chat that's on this. This sounds someone is saying that
this sounds in line with the supplement industry. While cannabis
isn't a supplement, which you say, it's similar in terms
of claims. So I want to make an important distinction here.
You're drawing distinctions between supplements and foods and beverages, which
(30:45):
is a distinction in the law. However, when it applies
to you dept violations and consumer protection claims, they're the same.
The distinction you're making there between supplements and food beverages
is relevant for the FDA, but with regards to FTC,
which applies to all claims made on all products, it's
the same. So you do have a little bit more
(31:06):
leeway in terms of putting cannabis into something like a
supplement which is not covered by the Food, Drug and
Cosmetic Act, doesn't necessarily have to go through the same
FDA process. But all those consumer protection issues that we
just talked about will apply just as broadly regardless of
whether this is a supplement, it's a food, or really
anything like that. Similarly, comparative claims with other products, whether
(31:29):
they be supplements, foods, or other cannabis products, also have.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
To be substantiated.
Speaker 9 (31:33):
You can't say that your product is better, it has
more terpenes, or it's full spectrum, whereas the other guys
isn't where that's not true. We talked a little bit
about how this applies to CBD and HEMP as well,
but Helen, you.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
Mentioned this very prior or very briefly before.
Speaker 9 (31:49):
But can talk a little about what the FTC and
the FDA have done with their warning letters and some
of the issues with non compliance that can result.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Sure.
Speaker 8 (31:57):
So what they're trying to do is knowing that most
of y'all out there don't know that these laws exist,
they're trying to put you on notice that they do exist.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
And they did. It was over three years ago.
Speaker 8 (32:10):
Dozens and dozens of letters went out to different CBD products, saying,
here are what our claim substantiation standards. Here are the
claims that you've made, and if you continue to make
these claims, then you're going.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
To need to have this level of proof.
Speaker 8 (32:23):
And with all types of claim substantiation, whether it's health
related or not, you have to have that substantiation before
you make the claim. And so they were just putting
them on notice that that that's what the law is,
and that can actually if you don't listen to them
and then you get caught for a violation, they can
(32:43):
actually then show that as an intentional violation.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
And they can potentially have higher civil penalties.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
And if you don't believe Helen, our next slide's going
to show you some notable issues in cannabis advertising, so
we could substantiate Helen's claim. So the graft to the
right shows the amount of warning letters that went out,
the number of warning letters that went out to companies
(33:10):
beginning in twenty fourteen through twenty twenty three, and you
can see that after the twenty eighteen Farm Bill passed.
Then as the CBD market expanded, the regulatory focus on
compliance increased. And these are just some examples of companies.
(33:31):
Cure Leaf one of the largest cannabis companies in the US.
They got a double whammy. They received letters from both
the FDA and the FTC. And this was for making
unsubstantiated claims relating to cancer, Alzheimer's and chronic pain. We've
got these are you know? Koy CBD, a very very
good brand, also got hit by both because and you'll
(33:53):
be hit by both if you make the claim and
then if a publishing company publishes it.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Or runs your ad.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
So claims that after do with Alzheimer's, chronic pain, COVID
nineteen anxiety PTSD, chronic CTE.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Head injuries, that one always kills me.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
If you look at number three neuro because and Helen
and Chad you could back me on this, I might.
This was when I found out that the federal government
was the original patent patent holder of the cannabinoid CBD
and it was right indicated as a neuroprotectant. Now, yeah, now,
(34:39):
I believe the patent expired around twenty twenty recently, relatively recently.
But how can they hold the patent for the cannabinoid
CBD being a neuroprotectant? And that's another conversation I don't
need to digress and then say you need to substantiate
a claim for a head injury.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
In a condition like CTE.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
We need a doctor on the panel because I can't
pronounce that second and cyphilopathy.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
But and then there's claims relating to ADHD and Parkinson's disease, and.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
So these warning.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Letters did go out and there are also fines associated.
Speaker 9 (35:24):
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's it's interesting. And to
that point, I mean, there have actually been peer reviewed
published studies that show cannabis can have inhibitory effects on
the ACE two receptor, which can lessen the effects of
COVID nineteen in terms of the effects on So to
your point, we've seen studies on things like anxiety. We've
seen chronic traumatic and cephalopathy studies.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Inflammation, chronic pain.
Speaker 5 (35:48):
Right, there's oh gosh, inflammation, chronic pain, of course.
Speaker 9 (35:51):
And you know, I think a large part of it is,
as you talked about, the kind of stigma associated with
this large transition from a law enforcement to a public
health policy perspective. In many ways, the left hand doesn't
know what the right hand is doing, and it's basically
trying to move a mountain.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah, and it keeps everyone who's trying to do goods
hands tied. So it's it is, but we're.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Gonna move the mountain. We're gonna move the mountain. I
I don't doubt it. I know it all right, Emily.
Would you do you.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Have any comments from from a situations you've run into
with Bena Leaves when it comes.
Speaker 11 (36:30):
To FDA regulation. I think it's it's incredible that they
are not in our business. Yet you can see from
some of these claims, these letters that are going out
that they're definitely sticking their toes in, if you will,
trying to keep in eye on on these claims. But
it is fascinating to me just how many facilities that
(36:51):
we know have seen that are not built out to
FDA standard and they're making edibles, you know, conceivables, topical
things you're putting inside your body and on your body,
and they're not taking proper precautionary safety measures just within
their facilities. That is one of the things that we
(37:12):
pride ourselves on, just within our facility where we were
built out fro an FDAID regulatory standard from day one.
Speaker 10 (37:19):
So that is something that.
Speaker 11 (37:20):
We like to, you know, just talk about because it's
incredibly important, and.
Speaker 10 (37:26):
Yeah, so I just wanted to touch on that. It's
it's fascinating.
Speaker 11 (37:29):
But I do think that in the next probably three
to five years, and correct me if I'm wrong, Helen
and Chad, I do believe the FDA will be definitely
in our business.
Speaker 10 (37:40):
And I know in Ohio as well that they're going
to start.
Speaker 11 (37:43):
Sending out agents specifically to look in on facilities. I
believe they're going to be representatives from the Department of AG.
Speaker 10 (37:52):
I believe, Okay, I see nodding.
Speaker 11 (37:54):
I think that, Yeah, I wanted to make sure I
got that department correct, but yeah, that they are going
to start making, you know, on trips and visits to
these facilities and checking in on FDA standards and the buildout.
So I think that's incredibly important. I think as an
industry we need to embrace that because that then further
normalizes and legitimize our industry, especially if we're saying, look,
(38:18):
this is you know, medicinal, this is medicine. We have
these beauty facilities, they hasted. I think that all helps
our cause.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
And I see that, thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
I see that we're moving on to a topic that
our poll was very interested in social media. I'll have
Halen and you know social media advertising. We all know
the challenges it presents, and I was I'm always worried
about when it comes to influencers promoting cannabis products or
(38:50):
even my platform. So it's balancing visibility with compliance. Again,
the FDC Endorsement Guide speaks to that it requires all
paid partnerships and endorsements to be fully disclosed. But I'm
going to hand it over to Helen in chat because
they're the experts on this.
Speaker 8 (39:07):
So first off, everything that Chad and I have said
applies in social media, and it's not an excuse that
on an Instagram post, it's too few characters for you
to put in all of your disclosures and your health warnings.
If you can't fit in what's required, then you don't
do it. So you take your job with advertising, and
it just becomes all that more difficult when you're doing
(39:28):
it in a space that that is tiny and that
includes things like like text messages as well. So the
Federal Trade Commission has a comprehensive endorsement guideline and its
main purpose is that when you have somebody providing your
product with an endorsement. You know, the consumer needs to
know that, and there are a variety of different words
(39:49):
and phrases and things that are used, but that's the
overall gist of it, and it's transparency. They want to
know that that person's either getting paid for it, perhaps
are getting free product, or they're getting some type of
reciprocal advertising elsewhere, or anything of value has got to
be disclosed, and chat can talk to a level bred
off the specifics.
Speaker 9 (40:11):
Absolutely so as hello, noted, yets and basic things. The
fact that there's an endorsement, the fact how much things
cost that if they're being compensated, all that has to
be noted. But what's really kind of deadly for businesses here,
and what they may not realize too, is that the
influencer is essentially speaking on your behalf. They're speaking as
(40:32):
a representative of your business. If they make a health
claim that you have not authorized them to under a
principle known as a parent authority, your business can still
be held liable for that. If they say something that
you didn't say was permissible, it's not in the script,
and they go off the rails and you don't take
action to correct it, your business can still be held liable.
So you know, a lot of companies, we'll see influencers
(40:54):
as this amazing avenue to a new market of consumers,
which is absolutely true. But sometimes that avenue to that
market is by playing fast and loose with the rules
to maybe seem to hit a bit more hip and
young or flexible or whatever. It's really really important that
you treat these the exact same as any traditional marketing
and advertising material that you put out there, because a
(41:18):
violation of these guidelines or of any of the FTC's
regulations fall under that exact same umbrella of a DApp violation.
So you violate this, you're looking at a violation of
one of those Yeah.
Speaker 8 (41:29):
And conversely, the endorser is liable for false claims that
she just happens to repeat because she was told. So again,
ask people, why how do you know this is true?
How before you say anything?
Speaker 2 (41:42):
And if you enter into a contract with an influencer
and ask for indemnification, they don't have the authority to
indemnify you, right?
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Is that correct?
Speaker 8 (41:50):
They can, but nine times out of ten they have
no money to indemnify you with.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
Yep, definitely put it in your contract.
Speaker 8 (41:56):
But more often than not especially after paying the attorneys
sees the loss of that the FTC has filed against you,
there's nothing left.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Wow well wow, I mean I think the one hundred
and sixty four thousand dollars question or the four hundred
and twenty thousand dollars question, couldn't couldn't resist, Emily, and I.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Could speak to this too.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
So aside from the content restrictions on top of it,
you've got the FTC on your back, the FDA, but
these platforms will just close your account. We've all lost Instagram,
Facebook accounts. It's it's devastating. So do you have any
tips navigating Emily, on navigating the different platforms platforms specific
(42:45):
restrictions and opportunities. And one thing that really goals me
is I don't understand the inconsistency of how they apply it.
I mean, I've lost the Instagram accounts because I put
a photograph of a hemp leaf, and then I see
other brands who have people taking bond grips. It just
seems very inconsistent. But Emily, could you speak to that
(43:08):
maybe about you know, navigating the different restrictions and the
different platforms or which platform I believe you guys are
on Instagram, right.
Speaker 11 (43:17):
Yeah, I mean you're spot on. The most consistent thing
in this industry is the inconsistency, especially.
Speaker 10 (43:24):
When it comes to marketing and advertising, right.
Speaker 11 (43:28):
I mean we've done We've had, just throughout my career
in cannabis in general, ahead a handful of count shut
down for various reasons. And you know, of course you
try to fight it and say, hey, you know we
are wording for imagery. I mean, the list goes on, right.
I think one of the most successful things that I've
(43:50):
done that I've done with them, just the various companies
that I've worked for, is humanizing your brand, you know,
those human connections, personal life, saying, getting out into the
world and educating face to face. I'm very passionate about
outreach and education, you know, setting up at your local
library and just talking about the basic This is cannabis,
(44:12):
This is a cultivator, this is a processor, this is
a dispensary. Not making claims, but more so saying this
is a potential option for you. That sort of thing
that it is is incredibly difficult and frustrating. I mean,
Facebook is a whole other monster. We don't even touch
that anymore. I know Twitter now X has alleviated and
(44:33):
been a lot more flexible with different terminology and imagery.
Speaker 10 (44:37):
So we've seen.
Speaker 11 (44:38):
Some success as far as the ROI and using that
specific platform, but Instagram specifically, I mean, it's a monster.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
You know.
Speaker 11 (44:47):
We've managed to find a nice balance just with the
cadence of our posting and the content in which we're posting.
But I am curious though, to look into other platforms
such as TikTok, where we are seeing these thirty second
short videos that are there and gone in a flash,
where I do believe a lot of these companies, especially
(45:08):
on the intoxicating HEMP side of things, are really taking
advantage of this advertising. But of course that's a whole
other conversation for a different day with what they're able
to get away.
Speaker 10 (45:17):
With as far as they're advertising, but it is fascinating.
Speaker 11 (45:22):
I think always err on the side of caution, especially
when it comes to imagery and wording and different phrasing.
Speaker 10 (45:30):
So Instagram has worked for.
Speaker 11 (45:32):
Us, but again I think bottom line at the end
of the day is creating those those human connections, getting
out into your you know, your communities, even working with
your local governments, your legislators and educating and getting out
there and really being a pot is some positive force
for the community.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
I think what you said about humanizing it, I just did.
Speaker 10 (45:53):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
I mean, I think you have to think about what
are the goals and objectives of social media. Don't buy
into all the hype. I mean, yes, we want it's already.
It's the balancing act of the visibility with the compliance.
Social media is a great tool, but maybe not for
the cannabis or hemp or maybe just to build goodwill.
Speaker 11 (46:12):
I just wanted to I wanted to add real quick
that LinkedIn. LinkedIn has also been incredible for us as
far as getting out just pure education content and really
you know, promoting brand awareness. I just wanted to make
sure I said that too, because between Instagram and LinkedIn,
LinkedIn's been fabulous. So I just wanted to make sure
I do that out there.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
And Brian, maybe you could just real quickly, ever so quickly,
we put together a slide of some successful cannabis social
media campaigns, so successful ones you could look at our screen.
Bey life, I'm not gonna lie. I've lost accounts. We're
always rebuilding. We're not allowed to boost ads. Sometimes we're
in Facebook jails. Sometimes we're not good luck figuring it out.
(46:55):
Charlotte's Webb did a good job. Men, men did a
decent job. But where to give them? I don't know.
Green Thumb, Baked Brothers, Kiva Love Kiva, but we you know,
it's an investment. It's an investment to build your brand,
your brand loyalty, to educate the consumer, consumer trust, the
educational content rim.
Speaker 8 (47:17):
I see a lot of it for folks who have
backed off of social media moving to the texting platforms.
Speaker 12 (47:24):
Oh yeah, And the laws about texting were very, very
challenging and difficult before, but they're they're completely changing in
January of next year.
Speaker 8 (47:36):
And so I wanted to alert anybody who if they're
using these texting platforms that you just don't want to
be doing it without having someone.
Speaker 4 (47:46):
Who knows texting laws look at it.
Speaker 8 (47:50):
And you know, we're already seeing class action lawsuits against
cannabis companies for this, and and you know, if you
hire someone to do it, you don't even know what
they're doing, say, you're still viable for their actions. You're
responsible for those vendors chat. I know you can talk
a little bit about it if you're still here, sure.
Speaker 5 (48:06):
Perfect, so really quick.
Speaker 9 (48:07):
The last thing I'll say on the texting and calling
is often this is not something a lot of cannabis
companies are aware of. There are two separate laws, the
TCPA and TSR, which regulate it. These provide for fines
of anywhere from five hundred to fifteen hundred dollars per
call or text, and they also can result in criminal
(48:28):
finds if you're not properly registered, which is pretty wild.
There are two things that are by partisan issues. One
is liking cannabis and one is not liking telemarketers apparently.
But to illustrate this, really the most instructive case health
marketer Visalis. They made approximately two million robo calls in
(48:48):
a two month period and they were hit with a
judgment for two billion with a B dollars. They actually
appealed to the United States Supreme Court arguing under the
Eighth Amendment it was cruel and unusual, which the court
didn't pie, but I love the argument, and they got
it reduced to a much more reasonable nine hundred and
twenty five million dollar penalty for two months of calling.
(49:11):
So campus businesses should absolutely get these practices audited.
Speaker 5 (49:16):
Still within the consumer protection realm.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
And then we're gonna just we're gonna go past the
making green environmental claims. But it just comes down to
making health claims, making any claims. It comes down to
what Helen said, where the information come from, is it true,
substantiate it, substantiate it greenwashing. Don't be saying you're you know,
(49:40):
we goo conscious or environmental or make treat green claims.
Would you say, Helen and Chad, with a little bit
of time, we have the way you would treat with
substantiating health.
Speaker 8 (49:51):
Those are things that trigger greater scrutiny. So if you're
gonna make them, I know brand really absolutely absolutely. I mean,
you've got a specific federal law that applies just to
green claims. If you're not reading that law and complaining
with it, you are asking for trouble.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Gee, okay, all right, well I you cut right to it, Helen.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
I hope you don't bill hourly because you really are
that You're the most accinct, I tell you, all right,
her knowledge and Chad's is bargain at twice the price.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
I'm just saying that, and I mean that I can
substantiate that, Okay. So Ip protections and branding.
Speaker 9 (50:30):
Yeah, absolutely, so I know this is a topic a
lot of people want to talk about, mostly because the
uncertainty surrounding it. So right away, trademarks and IP protections
for cannabis are limited. I know a lot of people
are probably wondering, can I trademark a specific product, a
specific plan to specific formulation.
Speaker 5 (50:49):
Unfortunately, not what you've got.
Speaker 4 (50:51):
About a strain?
Speaker 1 (50:52):
How about a stream?
Speaker 5 (50:53):
So there are there are some.
Speaker 9 (50:56):
This is an interesting question because there are some arguments
in some patents showing that unngerminated cannabis seeds which technically
do not qualify as cannabis. You know, they're un germinated,
they don't have any tac some suggestions that those can
be patented the actual strain coming from that seed, however,
cannot almost think of how Monsanto can patent certain types
(51:19):
of seeds, but not necessarily the product that comes from.
Speaker 5 (51:22):
What you do with the product.
Speaker 9 (51:23):
Is up to you, so you can you can almost
kind of copyright or patent that genealogy. What a lot
of companies are patenting, however, are novel design processes. So
I was speaking with a process or a couple weeks
ago actually who was coming up with this new process
for extraction methods and have questions on whether it was patentable,
(51:44):
and because it's broadly applicable, not just as something like cannabis.
It is another trick that I'm seeing a lot of
companies do is in order to actually get trademarks and
copyrights on some of their products or things that they
might be using, they form tangential goods such as T shirts, hats, apparel,
and then they trademark the brand on that apparel.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
Is that called like expanding your zone to federally legal products?
Speaker 1 (52:12):
What is zone of zono?
Speaker 5 (52:14):
Okay, that's certain, that's certainly what it is.
Speaker 9 (52:17):
But the trick there is take a similar brand, apply
it to something federally legal, and then at the very
least you're protecting your IP rights and preserving those rights
in the interro.
Speaker 2 (52:27):
On a gummy for instance, So even though the hemp
in the CBD is federally legal, if it has less
than three percent, the fact that it is now in
a gummy and the FDA hasn't ruled on that it's
kind of a non legal form of a federally legal product.
Can you get federal trademark protection if you're building a
(52:49):
gummy brand, for instance.
Speaker 9 (52:52):
So the short answer is no, there, Maria, and it's
it's for a reason that you touched on though you're
you're you're doing a a federally legal product in a
federally illegal way, and ultimately that's what it would come
down to. If you're putting it into a gummy something
that has not been recognized as grass under the Food,
Drug and Cosmetic Act, you're running into issues with it
(53:14):
still being a technically illegal product, which is why there's
a lot of health and safety concerns out there around
some of these intoxicating hemp products that unlike you know,
someone like Beta Leaves, who Emily talked about how they're
pretty open. They have more tours a day than anyone
I've seen. They will let anybody view anything. It's like
Willy Wonka's in there. It's fantastic, But you know, we're
(53:36):
seeing these other issues that are really kind of impacting.
So it's still in flux. They haven't ruled definitively. There
have been no Patent Office rulings on definitively, but I
would say no for the fact that it's still an
illegal form of a legal product.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
It's gonna take a village Helen and Chad and Emily
just quickly. Any Schedule three prediction.
Speaker 8 (54:00):
I'm going to say this because I can, because I'm
a baby boomer, and I think that you know, once
Schedule three goes through, that it's going to take another
generation to get things really where they need to be.
It'll keep moving forward. But the uh, the people with
(54:20):
whom I do business at, the legislature and the regulatory
agencies who are still you know, in charge of all
of this, don't want it, don't like it, don't want
to smell it on the street, and so they're going
to keep dragging their feet.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
Uh.
Speaker 8 (54:32):
And and you're gonna have to wait until you get
some the next generation to come in.
Speaker 2 (54:37):
And even the potential tax dollars. I mean, you saw,
you saw it with tobacco.
Speaker 8 (54:43):
They don't care it doesn't work, they don't want to
smell it, they don't care about the money.
Speaker 4 (54:47):
It's really it's it's amazing how unmoving they are.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
Wow.
Speaker 9 (54:53):
Well, you know, I say, I tend to take a
similar viewpoint. Actually, I mean, despite the public perspective, I
think there are a lot of public policy concerns, namely
the health certain concerns with high THHD cannabis that haven't
been fully sussed out yet, and I think a lot
of the fears are probably overblown, but I just don't
think that we know enough yet. In segueing there, you know,
(55:16):
there's a question will Schedule three be a watershed moment
need to move the industry forward. I think it'll kind
of be the next major stop. To Helen's point, I'm
not sure it'll take a full generation, but somewhere around
like ten to fifteen years maybe for full legalization I
think is potentially feasible. What Schedule three will do is
it's gonna completely separate the medical and non medical aspects
(55:38):
and everything medical. I mean, you're gonna get you're gonna
get two ade deductions or you're gonna be able to
take deductions under the tax codes. You're gonna get access
to FDIC insured banks, you won't be able to you
want have to use credit unions. You'll have full access
to social media and advertising. So Schedule three will be
a watershed moment for the medical side, recreational, adult use,
(55:59):
non me It's gonna still be tough for a couple
of years, but as you've seen in this industory.
Speaker 5 (56:04):
It always moves forward.
Speaker 9 (56:06):
We haven't moved back ever since this really started with
Proposition two fifteen. I think California back in like the nineties.
It's always been four momentum.
Speaker 5 (56:14):
So there's there. It will be a watershed moment, but
there's still work to be done.
Speaker 1 (56:19):
Genie's out of the bottle. The trains left the station.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
Two out of three, Yeah, two out of three Americans
wanted So it's you know, there's three bar partters in
issues that the majority of the country, no matter what
side you on, agree on. And that's kind of abortion,
gun control, and marijuana. So you know, more nugs, less guns.
Speaker 1 (56:41):
I don't you know why.
Speaker 2 (56:43):
I We're gonna get there, everybody.
Speaker 1 (56:45):
We're gonna get there.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
I can't say enough about the NCII, given all of
the limitations we just talked about, it's.
Speaker 1 (56:54):
The one place we can come together.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
And as I said, we're gonna succeed electively or we're
gonna all fail individually. And so to have a hub,
to have a place, to have like minded pioneers and
their strength in numbers, and what Helen said, you.
Speaker 1 (57:12):
Know what she said.
Speaker 2 (57:13):
She said, it's gonna take a generation. I kind of
agree with that. Chad more optimistic. Five to ten years,
it'll be moved along. How far down the.
Speaker 1 (57:25):
Needle will move.
Speaker 2 (57:26):
I'm not sure what Helen was saying was that they
don't care. The legislators couldn't be less interested. They don't
like the way it smells. The majority of their constituents
want it, so I really think you need organizations and
participation in organizations like the NCIA to drive the messaging
(57:51):
to the majority of the constituents who are gonna decide
who did that. These legislators don't care because their constituents
haven't made their wanting it known, and the constituents have
to be educated. They have to know what the issues are.
(58:13):
They have to know what the issues are. Going to
a black market or a legacy dispensary versus a licensed one,
or working with a brand that's trip a lab test
that they have to understand the issues so that they
can know how they impact them. Once we personalize and
humanize it and people understand how it impacts them, then
they'll start making noise. And when those legislators hear that
(58:37):
noise will maybe Chad hopefully it will be five to
ten years.
Speaker 1 (58:43):
I don't like to smell either.
Speaker 2 (58:45):
Personally, I never smoked it, but I couldn't be a
greater advocate, and I've come to like to smell. By
the way I'm gonna end with you. Know, necessity is
the mother of invention. So we don't enjoy a lot
of the advertising and marketing freedoms that fortune five hundred
(59:05):
companies take for granted, but that's going to force us
to be better. I mean, Ncia, I can't thank you enough,
and we need all the voices we can get.
Speaker 1 (59:14):
So that's it.
Speaker 2 (59:15):
So vote, know the issues, know how they impact you,
and vote based on your value system. That's what I got.
And thank you, Ncia, and thank you everybody for joining
today and for our panel.
Speaker 1 (59:27):
Just Say No is a green.
Speaker 2 (59:29):
Bee Life presentation airing live weekly on Friday afternoons from
four to five pm Pacific on KCA Radio and KCAA TV.
Archived audio episodes are on Greenbeelife, greenbelife dot com, iHeartRadio, Spreaker,
and most third party major platforms. For archived videos, check
(59:53):
them out on GBLTV, on Greenbee Life YouTube and Rumble.
To follow us our Instagram and Facebook is at Just
Saying No Radio.
Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
To apply to be a guest
Hello, Hello, and welcome to Just Say No.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
I'm your host, Maria Caliber's and you're listening to KCAA
Radio ten fifty AM one O six point five FM
on your dial today. I'm so excited because I'm reporting
to you. I'm broadcasting to you from the National Cannabis
Industry Association, the Trade Association, where I just got finished
(00:31):
moderating an incredible, incredible, incredible panel on consumer protection when
it comes to advertising and marketing and claims in the
cannabis space. What can you believe? What's marketing hype? Where's
the mainstream media? Why are they not reporting on the
issues you need to know? Well, we're going to answer
all of that. Our goal today is to tap into
(00:54):
their expertise and share some information to support or You're
getting a little bit more information that's transparent, authentic, trustworthy,
substantiated despite this patchwork of incongruent state and federal regulations.
(01:16):
We're gonna focus on six key areas marketing and advertising,
making and substantiating health and environmental claims, social media and
influencer endorsements. And for my businesses out there, my business
owners and my fellow entrepreneurs and pioneers, in this space.
(01:37):
We're going to look at some of the intellectual property protections.
I mean, can you get a federal trademark? Can you
get federal protection for something that's federally illegaloil No, But
there's some interesting things we're gonna learn. We're also gonna
look at texting and call and compliance. I mean, we
don't want miners getting text about cannabis.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
We're gonna look at that.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
And then I'd like to wrap the show up with
our panel talking about Schedule three predictions and the importance
the importance of just continuing to spark this conversation to
share information from reliable sources who can substantiate what they're saying,
(02:21):
because knowledge is power. And I also want to just
help connect deserving brands with people like myself who were
looking for natural alternatives to pharmaceuticals and alcohol. So, without
further ado, let's go.
Speaker 3 (02:39):
By twenty twenty. Bank of America and Merrill Lynch estimate
that will grow to thirty five billion dollars, and many
experts believe it could eventually reach two hundred billion dollars
each and every year.
Speaker 4 (03:00):
Up this, Scott.
Speaker 5 (03:07):
Je, let me, I can see so much your moroses.
Speaker 6 (03:19):
You, Moses, I'm a betterfly who is on a begon
taking me a while to get it. Had to live
and cry, to appreciate your life and what you give.
His words, when you're holding me, when you hold me
so close, i'one better and under your skin, I want.
Speaker 5 (03:42):
To leave them all right.
Speaker 7 (03:44):
Good afternoon. I'm Brian Gilbert n ci IS, Director of
Engagement and Experience, and I'm really excited to have you
all here. Today's session is led by members of our
Marketing Advertising Committee. I'd like to introduce our moderator, Maria Calabresee,
CEO of green bee Life. Maria is Passionate, is a
passionate excuse me, advocate for cannabis education and founder of
(04:05):
green bee Life, a pioneering streaming platform that promotes transparency
in green living. Her personal journey from skeptic to a
staunch advocate was inspired by our own experiencing overcoming chronic
pain through cannabis, which led to her dedication to providing
reliable information to others. Maria, great to have you here.
I'm really excited for you to lead today's conversation. With that,
(04:27):
I'll turn it over to you to introduce our Esteam panel.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Oh Brian, thank you, and thank you to the National
Cannabis Industry Association for all the hard work you do,
and Brian for putting this together and everyone for joining
us today. We've got a great panel, as Brian mentioned,
and I'm happy to introduce myself, Maria Calbery's founder green
Bee Life Media Platform, and the rest.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Of the panel.
Speaker 2 (04:55):
We're going to be joined by legal experts Helen McMurray
and Walter chapl from McMurray and Schuster and Emily Kelleher
who is the vice president of Bena Leaves Marketing. And
Emily has a couple of distinctions, but I'm gonna have
them all fill you in on their backgrounds. As well
(05:17):
as being the vice president for Bena Leaves of Business
and Government Affairs, she is also the marketing chair for
the Ohio Cannabis Coalition. I thought it would be nice
for each of them to introduce themselves personally. Talk a
little bit, guys about your expertise, and I mean, I
think one of the most fascinating things we do have
(05:40):
to unlock compliance.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
Yes, but I'm always.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
Interested to learn how experts like this have come to
the cannabis space. So Helen, how about will you tell
us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 8 (05:53):
I've been practicing law almost forty years now, and about
seven years ago. You don't think and your legal career're
going to get to actually open up into something that's
never been done before. But sure enough, you know, Ohio
passes medical marijuana, and we ended up getting a lot
of the litigation that came out of the set aside program,
(06:14):
and so we worked to try to defend that program
and allow our clients get their licenses, which they did.
But we work in heavily regulated industries, kind of on
the consumer protection screen, if you will.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Our firm was founded by the.
Speaker 8 (06:31):
Attorney General of Ohio and a number of us that
have worked for her. I served as a regulator under
the Attorney General. I would headed up the consumer protection section,
and probably most analogous to this industry, worked for example,
on the Attorney's general lawsuit against the tobacco industry.
Speaker 4 (06:52):
And even though.
Speaker 8 (06:52):
That was twenty years ago, we're finding now that a
lot of the same kind of claims that were struck
down with ours to tobacco cartoon characters, you know, using
things that look like kids candy or those types of things,
are now popping up in this industry. For the last
twenty years, I've been focusing racially just done helping companies
comply with advertising and have spent I think three years
(07:17):
now on the marketing committee here. And you're going to
be hearing all about the advertising guidelines that are firm
roote and now we're trying to roll them out to you.
Speaker 4 (07:25):
So they'll be useful.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
That's fantastic. And I say this with all due respect.
Every time I read something about unlocking compliance. The patchwork
of inconsistent laws of reconciling state with federal has been
referred to as kind of dysfunctional laws. And I love
talking to you and Chad because everybody, this is not
going to be dried today. I could say they're lovely.
(07:47):
They put the they put the fun in dysfunction. Now, okay,
I kind of resist. I couldn't resist, all right, Chad,
why don't you tell us a little bit about your background.
Speaker 9 (07:57):
Well, it's going to be hard to live up to
it after how in that glowing introduction, Maria, But thank
you so much.
Speaker 5 (08:03):
My name is Chad Blackham.
Speaker 9 (08:04):
I have the singular honor of working with Helen McMurray
at the law firm McMurray and Schuster. We had the
extraordinary opportunity to get involved with the Ohio's medical marijuana
system back in twenty eighteen, have been in it since
its transition to a non medical or adult use market
in the last year, and we've also branched out into
a couple of other states with our national practice as
(08:26):
Hele Mensual. We operate in a lot of really highly
complex niche areas, so the transition of the cannabis industry
was kind of a natural segue for us, with a
lot of our marketing and advertising bona fides carrying over.
So we bring a really unique coin of perspective to
this and I hope everyone here will learn a lot
for your own marketing advertising activities. In addition to working
(08:46):
with Helen, I am also a board member with the
Natural Therapies Education Foundation, a education focused nonprofit for medical marijuana,
and I'm also a professor at Capital Law School, where
I teach their Cannabis Law and Policy class.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
That's fantastic. I'm just curious when did the university start
allowing these types of classes?
Speaker 9 (09:08):
Wonderful question, Maria. This year, Actually, I'm the very first
to develop and teach the course.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
All right, well we're surrounded by pioneers.
Speaker 2 (09:16):
Thank you, Thank you so much, Chad, so Emily, Emily,
you're gonna talk to us about how this all applies
in actual business operations and the importance of it.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Man.
Speaker 10 (09:32):
Yeah, and my journey, I would say it's unique.
Speaker 11 (09:36):
But the more that I learned about others and just
my colleagues and the industry, we all kind of share
some more stories on our lives. I've never been in
an industry that it's so many just incredibly passionate human beings.
The kindness, the humanization of the industry has just been
incredible to watch. But I got in as an advocate
(09:58):
on the bidicial side of things, you know, plant medicine based,
and worked out in Colorado and moved back here and
actually opened the first retail space in central Ohio and
Columbus in the dispensary retail. And I've now been with
benal Leaves going on my third year, just doing marketing advertising.
(10:20):
You know, obviously I work at the governmental affairs side
of things as well. But as we all know, we
all wear one point five million hats in this business
given the given the day of the week. So thank
you so much for having me, and it's lovely to
be here.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Well, your insights are going to be you know, Helen
and chat are going to set the table for the
legal landscape, and then your insights are going to be
valuable for aligning compliance with actual business growth if such
a thing is possible.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
We're all we're all trying.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
So as Brian was very good at giving a lot
of information about my background, so I'll just say a
little bit about what I hope to do today is
to contribute insights from the media perspective, and I'm going
to speak to the unique challenge is imbalancing visibility with compliance, right,
(11:12):
so particularly in digital advertising where cannabis ads are heavily
restricted on platforms as you know.
Speaker 1 (11:22):
Google, Facebook. But there are tips I've.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Learned along the way on how to work with compliance
while maximizing impact across advertising and marketing channels including social media.
All right, So, without further ado, I think we have
to understand the rules of the road. So I'm going
to hand it over to Helen and Chad and we're
going to start with the framework for Marketing and Advertising Compliance.
Speaker 8 (11:48):
Great, thank you so much, Maria. Well, one of the
things that I realized, especially starting on the marketing committee
for ENDSCIA, was that nobody realized that there are advertising
laws that apply to cannabis beyond the ones that are
coming out of like in Ohio, we have a Division
of Cannabis Control, and unfortunately, there is a substantial body
(12:09):
of law at the state, federal, and sometimes even local
level that does apply to everything that's being sold to consumers,
even medical marijuana, recreational cannabis and the like. And so
the compliance guidelines that I referenced before really just a
kind of very high overview, so you know that they
are out there, and I know we've got this one
marketing person on and a bunch of operators, so that
(12:33):
you know generally what's to be expected because there's a
little commonality between the states.
Speaker 4 (12:39):
And the federal laws.
Speaker 8 (12:40):
And then later on in today's presentation we'll get into
the specifics. And so what I wanted to talk about
first was what we call you DAP, which is an
unfair or deceptive act or practice. And so if you
are selling a product to a consumer, you are not
allowed to make unfair deceptive acts or practices or any
claimed it are abusive. One of the problems with this law,
(13:04):
and it's the state law as well as the federal law,
is that it's very subjective. So there's not going to
be a book that's going to tell you what phrases
you can use to describe your product in which ones
you can't. You basically have to kind of use your
common sense.
Speaker 10 (13:16):
You know.
Speaker 8 (13:17):
I work with legal professionals like our firm that has
experience in understanding all of this, but I think we're
all consumers too, right, So when we're making a claim
and it's not particularly clear, you know that there's things
that you're excluding that could potentially be deceptive. And so
those are the things that you have to watch out for.
(13:37):
The state laws and the federal law. The federal law
is enforced by the Federal Trade Commission. The state law
is generally enforced by the state attorney general, and both
of those enforcers have taken actions against cannabis companies in
the last five years.
Speaker 4 (13:54):
And so you want.
Speaker 8 (13:55):
To be concerned that when you are putting messages out there,
that not only are they true, okay, but that you
are clearly and conspicuously disclosing, you know, any limitations at all,
and that can be about your product or it could
be about the purchasing of the product. Are you are
you not disclosing the fact that you're selling something, And
(14:18):
this can apply, for example, also to CBD products. But
then there's a shipping peak fee, there's a handling fee,
there's a credit card fee.
Speaker 4 (14:24):
Those types of things as well.
Speaker 8 (14:27):
So that's kind of the general framework that we're looking
at in terms of these consumer protection laws, and the
remedies are really steep. Twenty five thousand dollars civil penalty
most states, a little bit higher at the federal level,
and that's per transaction. So if you're selling thousands of
items to people or making millions of phone calls or
(14:48):
text messages, and we'll talk about them a little bit too,
that's a multiplier of twenty five thousand dollars. And you
can also be enjoined by a court. A pork can
stop you from selling your product, a work can stop
you from making those claims. So really, you know, and
those are what the Attorney's General and the FTC have
done in the last five years or so.
Speaker 4 (15:06):
Chad, you want to.
Speaker 9 (15:07):
Add on to that, absolutely, So, Helen, you touched on
a couple of really important points. I think the most
scary potentially also the most important, though, are some of
those penalties you talked about. Something that's really interesting about cannabis.
We're all aware of the federal prohibition, we're all aware
of the supremacy issues and the dual legality the federal
(15:28):
and state level. But what's interesting, and a lot of
people might not know, is that the federal government and
state officials have actually gone after cannabis company is quite
a bit notwithstanding that dichotomy.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
We'll talk a bit.
Speaker 9 (15:40):
About it more later, but some of the specific areas
that they're focusing on include things like health claims, and
when we're talking about marketing advertising here, I want to
touch on something Helen mentioned out mentioned at the outset
as well, which is this applies to pretty much any
statement your business is making, audio visual in the newspaper,
in vmail, on a social media blog post, really any
(16:02):
type of output of consumer might see is influenced by this.
So we have a couple specific examples here, things like
packaging and imagery considerations telling me that great point about
avoiding cartoons or images that target children, as well as
specific state advertising rules. But we all also have something
called constructive notice, and what happens is when a violation
(16:24):
is found on a local level, it goes into a
state repository. We have a notice with the Attorney General
here and then that puts all other businesses on notice
of that specific violation. What this means is in your
particular state, in the case of Ohio, for instance, there
might be dozens or even hundreds of other type of
view dept violations that aren't in the revised code, aren't
(16:45):
in the industry of code, and aren't really readily available
if you don't know where to look. But that doesn't
mean you don't have to follow them. So there's a
lot of rules and regulations you have to follow here
and they apply to all activities you do. And the
last thing I'll touch on before turning it over again,
and is that enforcement issue these state ud APP laws,
And when you hear youd APP, I want you to
(17:06):
think of that as synonymous with consumer protection. One of
the reasons a lot of companies aren't aware of these
is because how different the name is, even though it's
the exact same thing. But these also provide for consumer
private rights of action, meaning consumers can sue you as well,
so you don't have to worry just about that FTC
and the FDA and the state attorneys general and your
local governance body and state municipality. Consumers can sue as well,
(17:28):
and Helen noted some of those penalties at the federal
level they're smaller at the consumer level, but they can
still stack the exact same way. And when you run
to consumer class actions, you're looking at hundreds or potentially
thousands of violations in millions and fines.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
You know, Emily, thank you Chad. Before you jump in
with the operational it was just occurring to me, and
what I was doing was, I'm want to encourage everyone
to try to think about how your current practices fit
into this regulatory landscape. And I remember it's it's complicated,
but it's it's crucial the role of compliance, but it
(18:07):
gives us an opportunity to build consumer trust as well.
So while we have a lot of restrictions that Fortune
five hundred companies take for granted, we have that opportunity
so putting it into practice operationally, I want to throw
it to you, Emily.
Speaker 10 (18:24):
Sure.
Speaker 11 (18:24):
I think the one thing that you just touched on
consumer trust, right, and I think that's something that just
especially in the cannabis industry as a whole. We all
take pride in you know, triple tested, we use you know,
uv CR SERTs, making sure that we're not using naming
conventions that are attracted to children. I think that's one
of the things of an industry that we can hang
(18:45):
our hat on and is a differentiator. I think what's
important to note here as well is at Bentleys, we
work with a lot of different companies that are just
out of state, and so we do a lot of
copacking and white labeling here in Ohio and been fascinating
when it comes to just different regulatory compliance from state
(19:05):
to state is that it's so inconsistent in a lot
of ways. Where I mean to Helen and Chad's point
as well. You know, some of this packaging could easily
be approved in another state, such as making a claim
you know, this product will make you sleepy, this product
could make you feel awake. We're in Ohio, We're totally
(19:26):
handicapped from being able to use any of those types
of phrasing, and so it does prevent a little bit
of an educational gap between us and the consumer because
we can't fully express the product's potential and potential effects
on the consumer, and so I think that then falls
back on us as licensees, as educators ourselves to go
(19:47):
out into the public to you know, teach people about
cannabinoids and terpene profiles, right, And it's not just the
high etc. Percentage products. There's so much more that go
into this plant. And so I'm hoping that eventually someday
we will be able to use just a little bit
more words and just descriptive language to at least try
(20:11):
to explain what certain products can do. And of course
that's going to take more normalization of the medical cannabis
community itself and just the plant medicine itself, which is
so important, you know, especially in Ohio we're seeing as
rise of adult use, and it's so incredibly important that
we also lift up the medical cannabis program in the
(20:33):
same weight, right, the same level, to give that, you know,
the plant medicine the normalization that it needs. That we
can eventually move into these double blinded Pacibo studies and
this actual medical research that we can gain to be
able to make these claims right so to speak, and say,
we actually do know that if you take this dose
(20:53):
it'll help with inflammation it'll help with sleep, it'll help
with nausea versus.
Speaker 10 (20:58):
Now, you know a lot of what we say, and.
Speaker 11 (21:00):
We do work with a lot of different medical professionals here,
but you know they're they're you know what they say
and retort it's like, oh, it's anecdotal, right, we don't
have the science and the data to back this up.
But that's why I personally it's a passion thing for me,
you know, to really hold up the medical part of
(21:21):
this program and the medicinal benefits of the plant. And
I think that's something that we, especially at Bendley, has
tried to do with our educational efforts.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
Yes, and I plugged the educational efforts. From a media perspective,
it's it's good news and the bad news. It's what
fills my energy pockets is the opportunity to educate. Now,
how do you monetize that as a media company, that's
another webinar. But media platforms, they're uniquely positioned to either
you know, uphold or undermine consumer trust, and the consequences
(21:56):
to the media companies failing to adhere to the advertised
and standards are severe. You could lose your license, you
could be completely wiped out. I don't know if people remember.
It was a wonderful lifestyle platform publisher out of Canada
called Civilized, and I thought their content was very, very transparent. Honest,
(22:23):
it really was consumer friendly and it was highlighting the
lifestyle and how the plant can enrich your life. But
I mean they were in Canada where it was federally legal,
and Canada's advertising federal advertising rules were so strict that
I mean, they just couldn't attract enough sponsors or advertisers
(22:49):
or media partnerships because it's tough to balance as a
media publisher, myself included. I want to give the brands
who are doing it right the visibility. I'd love to
open up my platform to advertising. But the rub and
why we're not seeing more media companies involved is it's
(23:13):
very very hard to all the states of the different
compliance rules and regulations. You could geo block, but it's
just there's so much exposure and mainstream media they're not
going to assume that risk. So we're on the heels
of eight over eight decades of prohibition, which was the
(23:37):
whole subject matter in the plant was maligned with miscommunication,
and there's going to have to be content that educates
and media companies hands are somewhat tied. I mean, I'm
boldly going where all of us, right, We're all boldly
going where no man, woman, they has gone before.
Speaker 1 (24:00):
So kudos to all of us.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
But it's tough, and to see the brands educating is invaluable.
So Helen and Chad, before we move on to the
next topic, I was just wondering if you could just
speak to any advice on how brands can avoid or
(24:24):
even media companies. If someone comes to me with content
and I think they have a wonderful product, is there
any advice you have on how brands or publishers can
avoid unintentional violations with who we target as an audience
packaging advertising, especially when Chad you mentioned.
Speaker 1 (24:46):
Which kind of scares me to death that there's.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
These rules and regulations even down to the local level,
that we might not even be aware of yet.
Speaker 8 (24:56):
Quick question to the people that you're doing business, how
do you know this is true?
Speaker 10 (25:01):
You know?
Speaker 4 (25:01):
With what's your basis for saying this? As simple as that?
Speaker 2 (25:05):
Oh wow, wow, that's good.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
That's good.
Speaker 2 (25:12):
See guys, you gotta gotta get the lawyers. You gotta
get the lawyers.
Speaker 4 (25:16):
Well, that's always the right answer, Maria.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
I love it. I love it good.
Speaker 9 (25:22):
Not to be too cheeky here either, but honestly, the
best thing you can do is substantiate your claims. And
I promise I need even time that with your question
onto this slide here, But this claim substantiation. So when
when you ask the question we have a potential consumer
protection violation?
Speaker 5 (25:42):
What goes into it? How do we avoid it?
Speaker 9 (25:44):
The name of the game, and the main thing you
want to do is you have to substantiate every single
claim you make. So what is claim substantiation on a
very basic level is backing up any claims you make
with regard to your product. Emily made a fantastic point.
When you say this product can help you with sleep
or appetite or something to that effect, those are claims
that need to be backed up.
Speaker 5 (26:05):
As we noted earlier, these apply to all types.
Speaker 9 (26:08):
Of claims as well, audio, visual, written, anything, and most
importantly in the cannabis space, they also specifically apply to
health claims. Something like this product to help with inflammation,
it may help with your appetite. CBD is often advertised
as having neuroprotective properties, right, neurocognitive properties, All of these
(26:29):
absolutely have to be supported by health claims, specifically reliable
incompetent scientific evidence. In order to make a health claim
regarding a product, you need reliable and competent scientific evidence. Now,
as we noted before, Maria, you and Emily talked a
bit about this, this is a little tricky under the
FTC and FDA where cannabis has been illegal for almost
(26:50):
around like seventy eighty years. So where are all these
reliable and competent scientific studies.
Speaker 5 (26:56):
Thankfully, we're getting a few more with.
Speaker 9 (26:57):
The impending rescheduling and some changes the Drug Free Workplace Act,
but it's a real problem. So claim substantiation is the
number one way you can avoid these U dept. Violations,
especially with health claims. You want to make sure you're
really on top of them, having every single claim you're
making regarding a product, cannabis or otherwise vetted for substantiation,
(27:18):
especially health claims.
Speaker 8 (27:20):
Last year the FTC really kind of upgraded what's needed
and became specific and you just can't make these claims
very lately. We're talking about the claims that are supported
by medical research, and it can't just be one study
that you buy and shop a doctor and he says, oh, yeah,
(27:41):
whatever you want him to say. It's got to be
a body of medical research that generally supports what you're saying.
They have also indicated that that medical research study has
to be supported by random controlled human trials, and so
it goes far above just somebody's opinion. And also it
(28:01):
has to can't include I think somebody mentioned the anecdotal evidence.
You can't be out there saying that something cured your
cancer and have three or four consumers, you know, put
their quote up there. Anecdotal evidence is irrelevant when it
comes to substantiating health claim.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
We're restricted because we need these peer reviewed articles. We
need this medical research. As you said, we need more
than just pre clinical trials. But with the FDA stalling
on evaluating the efficacy, I mean, of course they approve
that in the pharmaceutical drug EPI dialects, but as a
food supplement or vitamin supplement, we're kind of in no
(28:43):
man's land. So it's a bit Listen, this isn't for
the faint of heart. We're forging the way, and this
is why we need the National Canvas Industry Association and
trade organizations and the advocacy.
Speaker 8 (28:59):
But yeah, and we're seeing now, Maria, you know, we're
looking at more of the safety issues.
Speaker 4 (29:04):
You know, failure.
Speaker 8 (29:05):
Part part of a health substantiation claim is making sure
that you're identifying what the warnings are. And we saw
three different state attorneys general, including a whole swath of
cases by the California Attorney General, say, you know, with
the cannabis related product, you did not indicate what the
warnings were, and that's a consumer protection violation. And really
(29:26):
we're seeing a lot of them in a Delta eight,
but that goes for all different types of cannabis as
well with regards to providing warnings, and your failure to
do that can also be considered a u deper consumer
protection violation.
Speaker 5 (29:37):
That's a great point.
Speaker 9 (29:38):
And you know, Maria, directly to your direct point that
you actually just mentioned. The reason we're in no man's
land with all of this with regards to foods and
beverages is because of the Food Drugging Cosmetic Act. And
what this Act does is it regulates all ingredients that
go into food and beverages. The Act basically says, unless
the ingredient you're putting in has been peer reviewed and
(30:01):
previously established as generally recognized as safe or grass. Ironically enough,
unless the product has been recognized as grass as go
through a very very lengthy peer review prior review process. Now,
the issue of course here is that CBD has not
been previously declared grass, So things like CBD foods and beverages,
(30:21):
notwithstanding the twenty teen Hemp Bill, can still be illegal
under federal law. And actually we have a question in
chat that's on this. This sounds someone is saying that
this sounds in line with the supplement industry. While cannabis
isn't a supplement, which you say, it's similar in terms
of claims. So I want to make an important distinction here.
You're drawing distinctions between supplements and foods and beverages, which
(30:45):
is a distinction in the law. However, when it applies
to you dept violations and consumer protection claims, they're the same.
The distinction you're making there between supplements and food beverages
is relevant for the FDA, but with regards to FTC,
which applies to all claims made on all products, it's
the same. So you do have a little bit more
(31:06):
leeway in terms of putting cannabis into something like a
supplement which is not covered by the Food, Drug and
Cosmetic Act, doesn't necessarily have to go through the same
FDA process. But all those consumer protection issues that we
just talked about will apply just as broadly regardless of
whether this is a supplement, it's a food, or really
anything like that. Similarly, comparative claims with other products, whether
(31:29):
they be supplements, foods, or other cannabis products, also have.
Speaker 5 (31:32):
To be substantiated.
Speaker 9 (31:33):
You can't say that your product is better, it has
more terpenes, or it's full spectrum, whereas the other guys
isn't where that's not true. We talked a little bit
about how this applies to CBD and HEMP as well,
but Helen, you.
Speaker 5 (31:46):
Mentioned this very prior or very briefly before.
Speaker 9 (31:49):
But can talk a little about what the FTC and
the FDA have done with their warning letters and some
of the issues with non compliance that can result.
Speaker 4 (31:57):
Sure.
Speaker 8 (31:57):
So what they're trying to do is knowing that most
of y'all out there don't know that these laws exist,
they're trying to put you on notice that they do exist.
Speaker 4 (32:05):
And they did. It was over three years ago.
Speaker 8 (32:10):
Dozens and dozens of letters went out to different CBD products, saying,
here are what our claim substantiation standards. Here are the
claims that you've made, and if you continue to make
these claims, then you're going.
Speaker 4 (32:21):
To need to have this level of proof.
Speaker 8 (32:23):
And with all types of claim substantiation, whether it's health
related or not, you have to have that substantiation before
you make the claim. And so they were just putting
them on notice that that that's what the law is,
and that can actually if you don't listen to them
and then you get caught for a violation, they can
(32:43):
actually then show that as an intentional violation.
Speaker 4 (32:46):
And they can potentially have higher civil penalties.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
And if you don't believe Helen, our next slide's going
to show you some notable issues in cannabis advertising, so
we could substantiate Helen's claim. So the graft to the
right shows the amount of warning letters that went out,
the number of warning letters that went out to companies
(33:10):
beginning in twenty fourteen through twenty twenty three, and you
can see that after the twenty eighteen Farm Bill passed.
Then as the CBD market expanded, the regulatory focus on
compliance increased. And these are just some examples of companies.
(33:31):
Cure Leaf one of the largest cannabis companies in the US.
They got a double whammy. They received letters from both
the FDA and the FTC. And this was for making
unsubstantiated claims relating to cancer, Alzheimer's and chronic pain. We've
got these are you know? Koy CBD, a very very
good brand, also got hit by both because and you'll
(33:53):
be hit by both if you make the claim and
then if a publishing company publishes it.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Or runs your ad.
Speaker 2 (34:03):
So claims that after do with Alzheimer's, chronic pain, COVID
nineteen anxiety PTSD, chronic CTE.
Speaker 1 (34:12):
Head injuries, that one always kills me.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
If you look at number three neuro because and Helen
and Chad you could back me on this, I might.
This was when I found out that the federal government
was the original patent patent holder of the cannabinoid CBD
and it was right indicated as a neuroprotectant. Now, yeah, now,
(34:39):
I believe the patent expired around twenty twenty recently, relatively recently.
But how can they hold the patent for the cannabinoid
CBD being a neuroprotectant? And that's another conversation I don't
need to digress and then say you need to substantiate
a claim for a head injury.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
In a condition like CTE.
Speaker 2 (35:03):
We need a doctor on the panel because I can't
pronounce that second and cyphilopathy.
Speaker 1 (35:10):
There you go.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
But and then there's claims relating to ADHD and Parkinson's disease, and.
Speaker 1 (35:19):
So these warning.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Letters did go out and there are also fines associated.
Speaker 9 (35:24):
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's it's interesting. And to
that point, I mean, there have actually been peer reviewed
published studies that show cannabis can have inhibitory effects on
the ACE two receptor, which can lessen the effects of
COVID nineteen in terms of the effects on So to
your point, we've seen studies on things like anxiety. We've
seen chronic traumatic and cephalopathy studies.
Speaker 1 (35:46):
Inflammation, chronic pain.
Speaker 5 (35:48):
Right, there's oh gosh, inflammation, chronic pain, of course.
Speaker 9 (35:51):
And you know, I think a large part of it is,
as you talked about, the kind of stigma associated with
this large transition from a law enforcement to a public
health policy perspective. In many ways, the left hand doesn't
know what the right hand is doing, and it's basically
trying to move a mountain.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
Yeah, and it keeps everyone who's trying to do goods
hands tied. So it's it is, but we're.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Gonna move the mountain. We're gonna move the mountain. I
I don't doubt it. I know it all right, Emily.
Would you do you.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
Have any comments from from a situations you've run into
with Bena Leaves when it comes.
Speaker 11 (36:30):
To FDA regulation. I think it's it's incredible that they
are not in our business. Yet you can see from
some of these claims, these letters that are going out
that they're definitely sticking their toes in, if you will,
trying to keep in eye on on these claims. But
it is fascinating to me just how many facilities that
(36:51):
we know have seen that are not built out to
FDA standard and they're making edibles, you know, conceivables, topical
things you're putting inside your body and on your body,
and they're not taking proper precautionary safety measures just within
their facilities. That is one of the things that we
(37:12):
pride ourselves on, just within our facility where we were
built out fro an FDAID regulatory standard from day one.
Speaker 10 (37:19):
So that is something that.
Speaker 11 (37:20):
We like to, you know, just talk about because it's
incredibly important, and.
Speaker 10 (37:26):
Yeah, so I just wanted to touch on that. It's
it's fascinating.
Speaker 11 (37:29):
But I do think that in the next probably three
to five years, and correct me if I'm wrong, Helen
and Chad, I do believe the FDA will be definitely
in our business.
Speaker 10 (37:40):
And I know in Ohio as well that they're going
to start.
Speaker 11 (37:43):
Sending out agents specifically to look in on facilities. I
believe they're going to be representatives from the Department of AG.
Speaker 10 (37:52):
I believe, Okay, I see nodding.
Speaker 11 (37:54):
I think that, Yeah, I wanted to make sure I
got that department correct, but yeah, that they are going
to start making, you know, on trips and visits to
these facilities and checking in on FDA standards and the buildout.
So I think that's incredibly important. I think as an
industry we need to embrace that because that then further
normalizes and legitimize our industry, especially if we're saying, look,
(38:18):
this is you know, medicinal, this is medicine. We have
these beauty facilities, they hasted. I think that all helps
our cause.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
And I see that, thank you, thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
I see that we're moving on to a topic that
our poll was very interested in social media. I'll have
Halen and you know social media advertising. We all know
the challenges it presents, and I was I'm always worried
about when it comes to influencers promoting cannabis products or
(38:50):
even my platform. So it's balancing visibility with compliance. Again,
the FDC Endorsement Guide speaks to that it requires all
paid partnerships and endorsements to be fully disclosed. But I'm
going to hand it over to Helen in chat because
they're the experts on this.
Speaker 8 (39:07):
So first off, everything that Chad and I have said
applies in social media, and it's not an excuse that
on an Instagram post, it's too few characters for you
to put in all of your disclosures and your health warnings.
If you can't fit in what's required, then you don't
do it. So you take your job with advertising, and
it just becomes all that more difficult when you're doing
(39:28):
it in a space that that is tiny and that
includes things like like text messages as well. So the
Federal Trade Commission has a comprehensive endorsement guideline and its
main purpose is that when you have somebody providing your
product with an endorsement. You know, the consumer needs to
know that, and there are a variety of different words
(39:49):
and phrases and things that are used, but that's the
overall gist of it, and it's transparency. They want to
know that that person's either getting paid for it, perhaps
are getting free product, or they're getting some type of
reciprocal advertising elsewhere, or anything of value has got to
be disclosed, and chat can talk to a level bred
off the specifics.
Speaker 9 (40:11):
Absolutely so as hello, noted, yets and basic things. The
fact that there's an endorsement, the fact how much things
cost that if they're being compensated, all that has to
be noted. But what's really kind of deadly for businesses here,
and what they may not realize too, is that the
influencer is essentially speaking on your behalf. They're speaking as
(40:32):
a representative of your business. If they make a health
claim that you have not authorized them to under a
principle known as a parent authority, your business can still
be held liable for that. If they say something that
you didn't say was permissible, it's not in the script,
and they go off the rails and you don't take
action to correct it, your business can still be held liable.
So you know, a lot of companies, we'll see influencers
(40:54):
as this amazing avenue to a new market of consumers,
which is absolutely true. But sometimes that avenue to that
market is by playing fast and loose with the rules
to maybe seem to hit a bit more hip and
young or flexible or whatever. It's really really important that
you treat these the exact same as any traditional marketing
and advertising material that you put out there, because a
(41:18):
violation of these guidelines or of any of the FTC's
regulations fall under that exact same umbrella of a DApp violation.
So you violate this, you're looking at a violation of
one of those Yeah.
Speaker 8 (41:29):
And conversely, the endorser is liable for false claims that
she just happens to repeat because she was told. So again,
ask people, why how do you know this is true?
How before you say anything?
Speaker 2 (41:42):
And if you enter into a contract with an influencer
and ask for indemnification, they don't have the authority to
indemnify you, right?
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Is that correct?
Speaker 8 (41:50):
They can, but nine times out of ten they have
no money to indemnify you with.
Speaker 4 (41:54):
Yep, definitely put it in your contract.
Speaker 8 (41:56):
But more often than not especially after paying the attorneys
sees the loss of that the FTC has filed against you,
there's nothing left.
Speaker 2 (42:05):
Wow well wow, I mean I think the one hundred
and sixty four thousand dollars question or the four hundred
and twenty thousand dollars question, couldn't couldn't resist, Emily, and I.
Speaker 1 (42:18):
Could speak to this too.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
So aside from the content restrictions on top of it,
you've got the FTC on your back, the FDA, but
these platforms will just close your account. We've all lost Instagram,
Facebook accounts. It's it's devastating. So do you have any
tips navigating Emily, on navigating the different platforms platforms specific
(42:45):
restrictions and opportunities. And one thing that really goals me
is I don't understand the inconsistency of how they apply it.
I mean, I've lost the Instagram accounts because I put
a photograph of a hemp leaf, and then I see
other brands who have people taking bond grips. It just
seems very inconsistent. But Emily, could you speak to that
(43:08):
maybe about you know, navigating the different restrictions and the
different platforms or which platform I believe you guys are
on Instagram, right.
Speaker 11 (43:17):
Yeah, I mean you're spot on. The most consistent thing
in this industry is the inconsistency, especially.
Speaker 10 (43:24):
When it comes to marketing and advertising, right.
Speaker 11 (43:28):
I mean we've done We've had, just throughout my career
in cannabis in general, ahead a handful of count shut
down for various reasons. And you know, of course you
try to fight it and say, hey, you know we
are wording for imagery. I mean, the list goes on, right.
I think one of the most successful things that I've
(43:50):
done that I've done with them, just the various companies
that I've worked for, is humanizing your brand, you know,
those human connections, personal life, saying, getting out into the
world and educating face to face. I'm very passionate about
outreach and education, you know, setting up at your local
library and just talking about the basic This is cannabis,
(44:12):
This is a cultivator, this is a processor, this is
a dispensary. Not making claims, but more so saying this
is a potential option for you. That sort of thing
that it is is incredibly difficult and frustrating. I mean,
Facebook is a whole other monster. We don't even touch
that anymore. I know Twitter now X has alleviated and
(44:33):
been a lot more flexible with different terminology and imagery.
Speaker 10 (44:37):
So we've seen.
Speaker 11 (44:38):
Some success as far as the ROI and using that
specific platform, but Instagram specifically, I mean, it's a monster.
Speaker 4 (44:47):
You know.
Speaker 11 (44:47):
We've managed to find a nice balance just with the
cadence of our posting and the content in which we're posting.
But I am curious though, to look into other platforms
such as TikTok, where we are seeing these thirty second
short videos that are there and gone in a flash,
where I do believe a lot of these companies, especially
(45:08):
on the intoxicating HEMP side of things, are really taking
advantage of this advertising. But of course that's a whole
other conversation for a different day with what they're able
to get away.
Speaker 10 (45:17):
With as far as they're advertising, but it is fascinating.
Speaker 11 (45:22):
I think always err on the side of caution, especially
when it comes to imagery and wording and different phrasing.
Speaker 10 (45:30):
So Instagram has worked for.
Speaker 11 (45:32):
Us, but again I think bottom line at the end
of the day is creating those those human connections, getting
out into your you know, your communities, even working with
your local governments, your legislators and educating and getting out
there and really being a pot is some positive force
for the community.
Speaker 1 (45:51):
I think what you said about humanizing it, I just did.
Speaker 10 (45:53):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
I mean, I think you have to think about what
are the goals and objectives of social media. Don't buy
into all the hype. I mean, yes, we want it's already.
It's the balancing act of the visibility with the compliance.
Social media is a great tool, but maybe not for
the cannabis or hemp or maybe just to build goodwill.
Speaker 11 (46:12):
I just wanted to I wanted to add real quick
that LinkedIn. LinkedIn has also been incredible for us as
far as getting out just pure education content and really
you know, promoting brand awareness. I just wanted to make
sure I said that too, because between Instagram and LinkedIn,
LinkedIn's been fabulous. So I just wanted to make sure
I do that out there.
Speaker 2 (46:32):
And Brian, maybe you could just real quickly, ever so quickly,
we put together a slide of some successful cannabis social
media campaigns, so successful ones you could look at our screen.
Bey life, I'm not gonna lie. I've lost accounts. We're
always rebuilding. We're not allowed to boost ads. Sometimes we're
in Facebook jails. Sometimes we're not good luck figuring it out.
(46:55):
Charlotte's Webb did a good job. Men, men did a
decent job. But where to give them? I don't know.
Green Thumb, Baked Brothers, Kiva Love Kiva, but we you know,
it's an investment. It's an investment to build your brand,
your brand loyalty, to educate the consumer, consumer trust, the
educational content rim.
Speaker 8 (47:17):
I see a lot of it for folks who have
backed off of social media moving to the texting platforms.
Speaker 12 (47:24):
Oh yeah, And the laws about texting were very, very
challenging and difficult before, but they're they're completely changing in
January of next year.
Speaker 8 (47:36):
And so I wanted to alert anybody who if they're
using these texting platforms that you just don't want to
be doing it without having someone.
Speaker 4 (47:46):
Who knows texting laws look at it.
Speaker 8 (47:50):
And you know, we're already seeing class action lawsuits against
cannabis companies for this, and and you know, if you
hire someone to do it, you don't even know what
they're doing, say, you're still viable for their actions. You're
responsible for those vendors chat. I know you can talk
a little bit about it if you're still here, sure.
Speaker 5 (48:06):
Perfect, so really quick.
Speaker 9 (48:07):
The last thing I'll say on the texting and calling
is often this is not something a lot of cannabis
companies are aware of. There are two separate laws, the
TCPA and TSR, which regulate it. These provide for fines
of anywhere from five hundred to fifteen hundred dollars per
call or text, and they also can result in criminal
(48:28):
finds if you're not properly registered, which is pretty wild.
There are two things that are by partisan issues. One
is liking cannabis and one is not liking telemarketers apparently.
But to illustrate this, really the most instructive case health
marketer Visalis. They made approximately two million robo calls in
(48:48):
a two month period and they were hit with a
judgment for two billion with a B dollars. They actually
appealed to the United States Supreme Court arguing under the
Eighth Amendment it was cruel and unusual, which the court
didn't pie, but I love the argument, and they got
it reduced to a much more reasonable nine hundred and
twenty five million dollar penalty for two months of calling.
(49:11):
So campus businesses should absolutely get these practices audited.
Speaker 5 (49:16):
Still within the consumer protection realm.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (49:20):
And then we're gonna just we're gonna go past the
making green environmental claims. But it just comes down to
making health claims, making any claims. It comes down to
what Helen said, where the information come from, is it true,
substantiate it, substantiate it greenwashing. Don't be saying you're you know,
(49:40):
we goo conscious or environmental or make treat green claims.
Would you say, Helen and Chad, with a little bit
of time, we have the way you would treat with
substantiating health.
Speaker 8 (49:51):
Those are things that trigger greater scrutiny. So if you're
gonna make them, I know brand really absolutely absolutely. I mean,
you've got a specific federal law that applies just to
green claims. If you're not reading that law and complaining
with it, you are asking for trouble.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Gee, okay, all right, well I you cut right to it, Helen.
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
I hope you don't bill hourly because you really are
that You're the most accinct, I tell you, all right,
her knowledge and Chad's is bargain at twice the price.
Speaker 1 (50:23):
I'm just saying that, and I mean that I can
substantiate that, Okay. So Ip protections and branding.
Speaker 9 (50:30):
Yeah, absolutely, so I know this is a topic a
lot of people want to talk about, mostly because the
uncertainty surrounding it. So right away, trademarks and IP protections
for cannabis are limited. I know a lot of people
are probably wondering, can I trademark a specific product, a
specific plan to specific formulation.
Speaker 5 (50:49):
Unfortunately, not what you've got.
Speaker 4 (50:51):
About a strain?
Speaker 1 (50:52):
How about a stream?
Speaker 5 (50:53):
So there are there are some.
Speaker 9 (50:56):
This is an interesting question because there are some arguments
in some patents showing that unngerminated cannabis seeds which technically
do not qualify as cannabis. You know, they're un germinated,
they don't have any tac some suggestions that those can
be patented the actual strain coming from that seed, however,
cannot almost think of how Monsanto can patent certain types
(51:19):
of seeds, but not necessarily the product that comes from.
Speaker 5 (51:22):
What you do with the product.
Speaker 9 (51:23):
Is up to you, so you can you can almost
kind of copyright or patent that genealogy. What a lot
of companies are patenting, however, are novel design processes. So
I was speaking with a process or a couple weeks
ago actually who was coming up with this new process
for extraction methods and have questions on whether it was patentable,
(51:44):
and because it's broadly applicable, not just as something like cannabis.
It is another trick that I'm seeing a lot of
companies do is in order to actually get trademarks and
copyrights on some of their products or things that they
might be using, they form tangential goods such as T shirts, hats, apparel,
and then they trademark the brand on that apparel.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
Is that called like expanding your zone to federally legal products?
Speaker 1 (52:12):
What is zone of zono?
Speaker 5 (52:14):
Okay, that's certain, that's certainly what it is.
Speaker 9 (52:17):
But the trick there is take a similar brand, apply
it to something federally legal, and then at the very
least you're protecting your IP rights and preserving those rights
in the interro.
Speaker 2 (52:27):
On a gummy for instance, So even though the hemp
in the CBD is federally legal, if it has less
than three percent, the fact that it is now in
a gummy and the FDA hasn't ruled on that it's
kind of a non legal form of a federally legal product.
Can you get federal trademark protection if you're building a
(52:49):
gummy brand, for instance.
Speaker 9 (52:52):
So the short answer is no, there, Maria, and it's
it's for a reason that you touched on though you're
you're you're doing a a federally legal product in a
federally illegal way, and ultimately that's what it would come
down to. If you're putting it into a gummy something
that has not been recognized as grass under the Food,
Drug and Cosmetic Act, you're running into issues with it
(53:14):
still being a technically illegal product, which is why there's
a lot of health and safety concerns out there around
some of these intoxicating hemp products that unlike you know,
someone like Beta Leaves, who Emily talked about how they're
pretty open. They have more tours a day than anyone
I've seen. They will let anybody view anything. It's like
Willy Wonka's in there. It's fantastic, But you know, we're
(53:36):
seeing these other issues that are really kind of impacting.
So it's still in flux. They haven't ruled definitively. There
have been no Patent Office rulings on definitively, but I
would say no for the fact that it's still an
illegal form of a legal product.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
It's gonna take a village Helen and Chad and Emily
just quickly. Any Schedule three prediction.
Speaker 8 (54:00):
I'm going to say this because I can, because I'm
a baby boomer, and I think that you know, once
Schedule three goes through, that it's going to take another
generation to get things really where they need to be.
It'll keep moving forward. But the uh, the people with
(54:20):
whom I do business at, the legislature and the regulatory
agencies who are still you know, in charge of all
of this, don't want it, don't like it, don't want
to smell it on the street, and so they're going
to keep dragging their feet.
Speaker 2 (54:32):
Uh.
Speaker 8 (54:32):
And and you're gonna have to wait until you get
some the next generation to come in.
Speaker 2 (54:37):
And even the potential tax dollars. I mean, you saw,
you saw it with tobacco.
Speaker 8 (54:43):
They don't care it doesn't work, they don't want to
smell it, they don't care about the money.
Speaker 4 (54:47):
It's really it's it's amazing how unmoving they are.
Speaker 1 (54:52):
Wow.
Speaker 9 (54:53):
Well, you know, I say, I tend to take a
similar viewpoint. Actually, I mean, despite the public perspective, I
think there are a lot of public policy concerns, namely
the health certain concerns with high THHD cannabis that haven't
been fully sussed out yet, and I think a lot
of the fears are probably overblown, but I just don't
think that we know enough yet. In segueing there, you know,
(55:16):
there's a question will Schedule three be a watershed moment
need to move the industry forward. I think it'll kind
of be the next major stop. To Helen's point, I'm
not sure it'll take a full generation, but somewhere around
like ten to fifteen years maybe for full legalization I
think is potentially feasible. What Schedule three will do is
it's gonna completely separate the medical and non medical aspects
(55:38):
and everything medical. I mean, you're gonna get you're gonna
get two ade deductions or you're gonna be able to
take deductions under the tax codes. You're gonna get access
to FDIC insured banks, you won't be able to you
want have to use credit unions. You'll have full access
to social media and advertising. So Schedule three will be
a watershed moment for the medical side, recreational, adult use,
(55:59):
non me It's gonna still be tough for a couple
of years, but as you've seen in this industory.
Speaker 5 (56:04):
It always moves forward.
Speaker 9 (56:06):
We haven't moved back ever since this really started with
Proposition two fifteen. I think California back in like the nineties.
It's always been four momentum.
Speaker 5 (56:14):
So there's there. It will be a watershed moment, but
there's still work to be done.
Speaker 1 (56:19):
Genie's out of the bottle. The trains left the station.
Speaker 2 (56:21):
Two out of three, Yeah, two out of three Americans
wanted So it's you know, there's three bar partters in
issues that the majority of the country, no matter what
side you on, agree on. And that's kind of abortion,
gun control, and marijuana. So you know, more nugs, less guns.
Speaker 1 (56:41):
I don't you know why.
Speaker 2 (56:43):
I We're gonna get there, everybody.
Speaker 1 (56:45):
We're gonna get there.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
I can't say enough about the NCII, given all of
the limitations we just talked about, it's.
Speaker 1 (56:54):
The one place we can come together.
Speaker 2 (56:57):
And as I said, we're gonna succeed electively or we're
gonna all fail individually. And so to have a hub,
to have a place, to have like minded pioneers and
their strength in numbers, and what Helen said, you.
Speaker 1 (57:12):
Know what she said.
Speaker 2 (57:13):
She said, it's gonna take a generation. I kind of
agree with that. Chad more optimistic. Five to ten years,
it'll be moved along. How far down the.
Speaker 1 (57:25):
Needle will move.
Speaker 2 (57:26):
I'm not sure what Helen was saying was that they
don't care. The legislators couldn't be less interested. They don't
like the way it smells. The majority of their constituents
want it, so I really think you need organizations and
participation in organizations like the NCIA to drive the messaging
(57:51):
to the majority of the constituents who are gonna decide
who did that. These legislators don't care because their constituents
haven't made their wanting it known, and the constituents have
to be educated. They have to know what the issues are.
(58:13):
They have to know what the issues are. Going to
a black market or a legacy dispensary versus a licensed one,
or working with a brand that's trip a lab test
that they have to understand the issues so that they
can know how they impact them. Once we personalize and
humanize it and people understand how it impacts them, then
they'll start making noise. And when those legislators hear that
(58:37):
noise will maybe Chad hopefully it will be five to
ten years.
Speaker 1 (58:43):
I don't like to smell either.
Speaker 2 (58:45):
Personally, I never smoked it, but I couldn't be a
greater advocate, and I've come to like to smell. By
the way I'm gonna end with you. Know, necessity is
the mother of invention. So we don't enjoy a lot
of the advertising and marketing freedoms that fortune five hundred
(59:05):
companies take for granted, but that's going to force us
to be better. I mean, Ncia, I can't thank you enough,
and we need all the voices we can get.
Speaker 1 (59:14):
So that's it.
Speaker 2 (59:15):
So vote, know the issues, know how they impact you,
and vote based on your value system. That's what I got.
And thank you, Ncia, and thank you everybody for joining
today and for our panel.
Speaker 1 (59:27):
Just Say No is a green.
Speaker 2 (59:29):
Bee Life presentation airing live weekly on Friday afternoons from
four to five pm Pacific on KCA Radio and KCAA TV.
Archived audio episodes are on Greenbeelife, greenbelife dot com, iHeartRadio, Spreaker,
and most third party major platforms. For archived videos, check
(59:53):
them out on GBLTV, on Greenbee Life YouTube and Rumble.
To follow us our Instagram and Facebook is at Just
Saying No Radio.
Speaker 1 (01:00:07):
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