March 5, 2025 • 40 mins
The brothers Jones sat in the ravine and chatted about School Resource Officers, Watches, and so much more. It was fun just the two of us again.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to another episode of Just Us on Justice and
other things. I am Scott Jones, your co host here
with my baby brother, Dan Jones, and it is a
I guess, not necessarily rare, but a long time coming
episode just the two of us, which means we just
meander about and talk about whatever pops into our heads
with very little planning. Although we actually plan out and
(00:22):
write out a little more topics when we're just the
two of us than we do with the guests, we
don't really prepare shit with guests, so sorry all the
guests that we haven't thought about preparing for, so we
have come random topics here today. I'm going to start
with some personal stuff with I am on my way
to Maui tomorrow. My wife and I and both of
our boys, who are in their twenties, are heading to
(00:44):
the islands for our thirtieth wedding anniversary. And it's kind
of a I don't know, not weird, it's not the
right word.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
We've gone to Maui number time. We've been very lucky.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
This is probably the last time for quite some time.
For a few reasons. One, our dollar is terrible against
the American dollars, so it's like seventy sounds on the dollar,
which is shit. The we're not going to go into politics,
but the politics of US and Canada right now. I
don't really want to go into politics, but what the
politics are. I don't want to go spend my money
somewhere that is like threatening our sovereignty and calling us
(01:16):
out and saying mean shit. So I'll take my money elsewhere.
And then when we get back, both of the boys
will be moving out into their own places. Like I said,
Terry and I have our thirtieth winning anniversary. So it's
like all kind of coming to a very interesting point.
A timely vacation I'm very much looking forward to, especially
since it's been minus five fucking thousand, which seems like
(01:37):
seventy two days in a row here, So yeah, looking
forward all that.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I think it's interesting. I've been talking about you talking
about me. You can jure back a lot. No, I've
been talking about your boys leaving with just different people,
and just because I have friends that have kids in
all different stages of life, and one of them was like,
oh my god, what's it like to not have kids
at home? Because they're like want their kids not to
be at home and for different reasons and their kids
(02:02):
or whatever. But you guys actually have a really good
relationship with the boys, and these other people do too.
It's just there's a lot less Your boys are in
pretty low maintenance, so it's interesting, gonna be interesting for
you guys to be, you know, without your kids at home,
like I know, for Tera and I it was a big,
(02:23):
a big thing. But ours was kind of staggered, right,
And we also had we had a period of.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Time where our my youngest daughter, Amma, was a.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Collegiate athlete, scholarship collegiate soccer player, so she was off
to school during school. So even in those kind of
years where your kids, your kids stayed home and went
to university, mine and mine went away. My youngest went away,
so we kind of had summers with her, and it
was just really staggered because my oldest moved out, then
she moved back in, then she moved out again, and
(02:52):
then she got married and now she lives in Ontario,
which is another shitty thing. Like my oldest Vanessa, she
lives in Ontario, which is awesome. They have a beautiful
place on Lake Simco now and her husband's a great guy.
But it does suck that you can't just drive for
even forty minutes to see your kid.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Right.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
So we've had that empty nest syndrome or whatever you
call it for quite some time now, and you get
used to it, and there's huge benefits to it as well.
There's my benefits emotionally, there's benefits financially. One of the
other things too, like and you said the other day,
and this isn't a negative, but you said that it
(03:30):
was four o'clock in the morning or whatever you heard, Jack,
It's nice to not hear something at four o'clock in
the morning, right.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
And I remember that when the kids.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Were living a home and going out to the bar.
I never slept well when they're out at the bar anyway,
and you'd be waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting
till you hear that door and it's three o'clock in
the morning and you're like, oh, they're home. And you know,
those kinds of things, they're little, but those are kind
of small benefits that you'll probably notice and appreciate. And
(03:59):
I think, and I think anyone who has been an
empty nester for a period of time, you're like, I
love having my kids around, and that's I think is
our kids like spending time with us. So we holiday
with them and like we're gonna do the Canadian Open
again next year this year now, she's like, it's this
year now, and we're gonna.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Do that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
We plan as much as we can to make sure
that we have that time to spend with them. But
it's also nice to have that time where you don't
have to worry about anyone coming in your house. You
don't have to worry about who else is coming over, right,
which isn't like a not a negative, it's just a
nice kind of It's just a nice way to live.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I'll be a millionaire because the amount of toilet paper, meat,
and toilet flushing that goes on in my house with
two boys, I would be ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Your water bill is going to decrease because I think
Jack is the longest shower I've ever met in my life.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
And laundry, Like I I almost wear the same clothes,
like a couple of days with t shirts, a week
with jeans. Obviously change underwear because that'd be gross that
that's kind of it. I will use a towel for
five or seven days until it needs me. The laundry
pile will be so small that I would be surprised
if our machine goals once a week once the fellows
are gone.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
If my jeens don't get whatever this is on them,
it's disgusting.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
What. I don't know what's hot my jeans right, and
I just it's just it's falling off into your car.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
It was just whatever it was was gross.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
But if my jeens don't get this on them, I
don't watch my genes for like a month. And there's
research that shows that it doesn't matter. Dnim does not
hold germs. It's not the thing that I think we
need to wash more. This is something I've been thinking
about a lot, and many of you probably have never
thought of this. I truly believe everyone says the dirtiest
thing in your that you have as your phone or whatever.
I truly believe it's your belt, because you'd go to
(05:40):
the bathroom, you defecate, you do your business, whether whether
it's peeing or pooping. The first thing you do, specifically
pooping is do your belt and your pants up. And
I wonder how many people out there wash their belt.
I actually now, ever, since I thought of that, I
use a lysole wipe on my belt all the time.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Because it's growth and it's it's a hard thing to do.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
You can't if you have to go to the bathroom work,
which I try to avoid as much as possible. You
can't walk with your pants undone to the sink to
wash your hands.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Because people are gonna think you're a free at home.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
You can do it, and I have started doing it
specifically depending on the bathroom I'm in.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
One bathroom is closer.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
To the sink, and I'm sure you all don't want
to know the details of my my bathroom breaks, but.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
I don't know. Have you ever thought about the belt
and how dred it is before?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yes, because you brought that up like two years ago.
You're Alzheimer's kitchen kicking in because we had this conversation.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
No one on the podcast, not on the podcast, No, no, no,
I know. Yeah. So since then, I do the same thing.
Maybe once a month.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I take a lights all wipe to my whole belt,
and I don't other than when it's a million below
I don't wear a belt because I have shorts on
most of the year. This winter is the exception because
it's been so cold that even I haven't been able
to wear.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Shorts, I always have a belt even when I wear shorts,
because I have known and I have no bumb Yeah,
I'm liking, like.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Like an old man, you are an old man, I am.
So I think that's probably good to cover all that.
So a couple kind of more serious topics. You brought
up a stat the other day which is awful and
mind blowing that the life expectancy of an Indigenous person
is nineteen years less than a white person in Canada,
(07:22):
in Alberta, in oh, sorry, in Alberta. So can you
talk about like where that came from, what research, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Yeah, So they do this, they capture this all the time,
and this is the biggest discrepancy. And I don't remember
the year it started, but we're talking going back into
at least the seventies. It's the biggest discrepancies in the
history that they've tracked this data. So these data are
showing that nineteen years less. The average person who's non
(07:49):
Indigenous in the province of Alberta lives to eighty something
and minus I think it's eighty three and minus nineteen
years from that.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
So you're in your sixties versus your eighties. And that
is a crisis, health crisis that nobody is talking about. Right.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
We talk about opioids all the time, we talk about
those kinds of things, But what is happening in our
indigenous communities.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
That's the and there we can talk about it.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Six hundred and eighty one, I believe was the last
number I heard of communities northern communities in Canada that
don't have clean drinking water, So that alone, you don't
have clean water.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
To drink, to wash your hands. We have. There's a
really good documentary I can't remember who did.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
It's called Third World Canada, and it's all about life
on reservations and specifically ones that are not near or
close to major centers, and the discrepancy in health care,
the discrepancy in education. All of these things all lead
to poor health outcomes. And it's a crisis that I
will say that traverses political lines, because yes, it's nineteen
(08:52):
years now under the UCP, but it was not that much.
It was still significant the under the NDP. And I
think what it is, it's it's this still systemic othering
and systemic racism that these statistics come out and nobody
looks for a solution to address them because the Indigenous
voices are still so muted and mumbled, and the individuals
(09:14):
of the that can speak truth to power are not
given the opportunity to talk about this tragic and horrendous
crisis that occurring with our indigenous peoples and the problems
well brow.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
And was it also was the statistic related to infant
mortality as well.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yeah, yes there's a I don't have the number, but
infant mortality is significantly higher in Indigenous communities. People at
life expectancy of age is significant as well.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
The older individuals get the less care they have.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
In some of these communities, in some of these places
where in Edmonton here we can you know, you can
have one of those in home people that are always
advertising on their radio, and you can pay for this.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
You can pay for that home care.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
And and you know, we know people that are that
are in care facilities that aren't paying of those care
facilities because those they're they're they covered under Age's a
lot of these folks in northern communities and on reserve
don't have that opportunity, and there's no there's no place
for them to go because.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
The reason I asked that.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
A lot of times in the you'll see, like in
the whatever seventeen hundreds of life expectancy was fifty five
or whatever I'm making sit up, But a lot of
that didn't mean that people were dying at fifty five.
And what it meant was there was a shit ton
of babies who died. Like people would have family five
and two or three, the kids would die really young.
And that was what drew that line down. So I
was just wondering if that was taken into accoun which
(10:35):
it obviously was.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
And that's interesting that you bring that up too, because
I'm just gonna talk about evidence based practices for just
one second.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Evidence base it up.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
One of the things that they used to talk about
evidence based practice is when we were in UH school
and Andy had the example that they used was infant
mortality because there was a doctor who thought, hey, we
we should maybe wash our hands before we deliver babies,
and he's found that it reduced in mortality significantly. It
(11:07):
took I think it was it's either fifty or eighty
years before that became a standard practice.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
He was seen as a heretic and they thought he
was saying, I think he actually lost his medical license over.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
So all of these things when you look at evidence,
when it comes to statistics, when it comes to mortality,
the problem is the people in the places of power
that have the ability to make the change. They don't
listen to it, and they don't hear it, and they
don't act upon it. And right now I think we
need to call out the provincial government when it comes
(11:40):
to what they're funding. And if we've got down to
this the lowest point ever in the history of these data,
and it's twenty twenty five, maybe we need to redirect
some of the spending, whether it be the twenty billion
dollars that we've talked about before that went to the
oil field companies for there to clean up their drill sites,
(12:04):
which they're contractedly obligated to do anyway, or when you
look at this most recent scandal in the in our
healthcare with that six hundred million dollars just going to
one company, where is the accountability and the transparency for
the budgets And why are we not addressing a crisis
of such epic proportions with our indigenous peoples and just because.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
As you were talking about Guled, it was Ignaz Samoluis
in the eighteen hundreds who was the guy who like, hey,
we should wash her hands, and he was very outspoken
about it, and then he eventually had a nervous breakdown
and was committed to an asylum and was beat by
guards and then died of an infection that had so
he he probably if he had a podcast, he'd be
like you.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Probably, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
People don't like when you speak shoot the power sometimes.
And it's interesting because someone had made a comment to
me just today about listening to me on this podcast
and on the radio, and they're like, I love what
you say. You say it like it is, and you
say positives and you say negatives. But you are very
very honest to people that have power. And I'm like, yeah,
we have to be. And you know you said you
(13:12):
don't want to get political. This isn't political. This is
human nature. This is human beings. These are human lives
that are being lost. And I don't care if you're
a conservative or if an NDP or a freakin liberal,
I don't care what you are. If you see a
number like a nineteen year gap between our indigenous population's
life expectancy and the non indigenous population's life expectancy, and
(13:33):
you don't do anything about it, you are complicit in
those deaths.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
That's my opinion.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, no, I don't. I agree.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
This is not a political party thing. It's like you said,
didn't just happen in the last two years with a
change in government.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
It's a long time coming that.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Obviously the systems are failing, but it seems like all
the systems are failing right now. It doesn't matter trying
to go to a doctor in anywhere in Canada, trying
to go to an emergency room, education, people are wanting
to strike nurses around straight like everything seems to be
failing right now because it just kind of seems like
there is no seeving direction, there's nobody that you really
(14:06):
want to follow. And then all the stuff with the
US just it's kind of just piling onto all that
and it makes for a tough goal, which for me,
from the last of a while, I've had to go
like I need to not read the paper, I need
to hide the app. So my news app has been
buried on my phone because I found myself doom scrolling
and then get myself all anxious, and there's nothing I
(14:27):
can do about any of it, So there's not much
reason for me to dump energy and worry into what
it is that world leaders are going to go do that.
I will never be in a room with that. I
will have no influence on. So not advice. But what
I did was hide the app know that I was
doing that, and then pull myself away and then go, Okay,
what am I doing? Okay, I'm gonna go for a walk.
I'm gonna go for a walk outside, especially today because
(14:49):
it's nice out or inside, or go lift weights or
move or write or whatever, and do something that is
you looking after you instead of getting pulled down into
the muck and then just feeling bad about everything.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Yeah, I agree, And it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Like I was, I was fortunate I got invited to
a roundtable today. It was actually it was described as
a non partisan ground table. It was held by a
government party. But they said right at the beginning, we
don't care what your your leanings are. We want to
talk about justice. We want to talk about funding, we
want to talk about what we need to do to change,
(15:25):
you know, the outcomes for the justice system. Right now,
we have massive backlogs and courts, and we have our
prisons are you know, we're putting more people in jail.
Our find systems are creating fines for people that can't
afford to pay fines. So then what's the answer do
you put this person in jail? Do we do we
start work camps? Like what do we do? So it
was interesting to sit in a room like that and
have those discussions, but at the same time reading all
(15:50):
the paper and doing all the stuff, and you know,
as hopeful as I am, is anything ever going to
actually change? I hope it does. I hope that we
see some aes. I hope next year we're doing a
podcast and we can say, oh, the you know, life
expectancy of indigent people has increased significantly in the problems
of Alberta.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
I hope that's true. But I at the same time
I agree with you. You can't.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
You could just sit there and read about America US
relationships like right now there. I just read something today
and it's like there hasn't been this much of a
political divide and during an international hockey game since the
Soviet Union and the Americans.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
I think it was nineteen seventy two and now you've
got this.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Now the divide is between the United States and Canada,
which is something I would have said, I would have
never expected to see in my lifetime, to have this
type of rhetoric being talked about. And you know, I
just saw there's a billboard in I think it's Bonnieville,
Alberta that says, Danielle Smith, please help us join the
(16:52):
United States and all that kind of like, and it's
it's just getting it's getting ridiculous, and it's it's it does.
It sits in your head and then you can all
sudden go down whatever doom's day potential that there is,
and all of a sudden you can be consumed by it.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
And I just do my best not to be.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
So pivot a little bit here, staying along the lines
of topical police stories, I guess school resource officers in
Edmonton in the public system a number of years ago
were removed at the request of the Emonton Public School Board,
and within last month that has been reversed and they're
(17:32):
back in schools. So let's go back a little bit.
School resource officer program in Edmonton is exceptional. The people
who work in those spaces are exactly who should be
working in those spaces. They're the right police officers to
deal with youth in those institutions. And we have both
seen well. You were the inspector in charge of them
(17:53):
at one point. I was a superintendent charge of them
at one point in our previous lives, and even before
that when I was in child protection section. The number
of schoolers are saucicers who had a huge impact on
kiddos who were coming forward with allegations of sexual abuse
because that schoolers of our saficer was the only person
that that kid would trust. The number of times that
(18:14):
suicide suicide attempts were averted because of that rapport and
relationships whereas is too numerous account So the reason I'm
bringing this up is they should absolutely be back in
public schools. They should never been taken out. And here's
where I was kind of mad for the week is
where's the apology from.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
The Edmonton Public school Board?
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Because it wasn't just like, hey, we're gonna look at this,
we'ren't really sure with the decision. It was very denigrading
of the profession. It was very much prison pipeline talk
and all that shit that it maybe happens in other jurisdictions.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
I don't know. I don't actually care because it doesn't
happen here.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
So I thought it was odd that all of a sudden,
we have them, exceptional police officers being put in there
with no acknowledgment to the harm and the moral injury caused.
A lot of the members were basically told they were
garbage and pieces of shit and they were there to
rest kids, when that was couldn't be further from the truth.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Oh yeah, yeah, So I had them for four years,
And it's interesting that you bring up that piece because
I was involved in the discussions around the program when
there was this call to get rid of them, which
was also amplified by the murder of George Floyd, Like
it was, that was an amplification of it, and that
(19:29):
police this and that, And one of the things that
we acknowledged as the police Service when I was working
there was that we had failed to do any adequate
research on the program and its efficacy, which is something
we fail, and most police agencies fail in all kinds
of things, right, because you look at darre and Darrow
was taught long after still being caught in some places,
(19:49):
and the evidence shows that it's not helpful. So that
research is something that I think police agencies need to
catch up on with a lot of things. But what
we did was we said, well, let's do the research
and let's not have this reaction yet. And the Catholic
school Board said, yep, they haven't. To Public school Board
said absolutely not.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
And the research they wanted, the questions that they wanted
were very very directed.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
It was almost directed research to get a certain outcome
the way they wanted to ask those questions. And we're like, no,
number one, you're not going to get a good research
to the earth that's going to come in and just
do your questions.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
That doesn't that's not how research works.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
So the Catholic school Board decided to maintain the SROs
and the Edmonton Public school Board decided to cancel the program,
causing a significant amount of you know, I would suggest
harm to the members.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
I would honestly say harm to.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Students, because there are those students that weren't didn't have
that safe space to go report a sexual assault. The
research was done by Bisserrius Wortley and Kinikas Samuel Wortley,
and it showed that the significant amount of positive reactions
to the SROs up and including all the different communities.
(21:06):
They went to the LGBTQ community, they went to black students,
they went to Indigenous students, they went to US students
of color, and the resounding answer was they loved their constables.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
It was interesting.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
The one group of that they found that didn't really
like the idea of an SRO were students who'd never
had one. And I would suggest that was largely because
of what's out there in the ether around the SRO program.
And you said you don't care about the research, which
I get, but the research in the States is actually
really unfortunate because.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Though I meant I don't care because I don't really know.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
No, no, I know that's mean. I know that's what
you meant, and I get rid of all.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
But I said in those meetings, if I were to
have read this research, I would agree with you. But
I know what the program is, and I can say
the Catholic school Board was awesome and they were like okay,
and the principles of the schools that had SROs were
very much So I'm gonna say the Edmonton's Public school Board,
not the Eminton Public schools. I just want to make
(22:09):
sure we make that distinction teachers and principles very wanting,
very much wanting. And when they did the research that
because the research was being paid for the Evonton Public
School Board wanted to or did exclude the responses from
the principles and the teachers. They said that that doesn't matter,
it's the students that matter, which was fine because it
(22:31):
still showed the positiveness of the of the SRO program and.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
It is interesting.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
And and here's the other thing that I will say,
and this is one of the things that frustrates me
because I get frustrated when people say stuff and they
don't have any understanding or evidence to pay prove it.
One of the things that they argued all the time
was the argument that police schoolers ours officer increase police legitimacy.
That is untrue. It increases that police officer's legitimacy. And
(22:59):
I and it showed that in the research too, that yeah, well,
this doesn't mean I like all police or I think
the police are good.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
I like this police officer. And anecdotally, which I just.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Said, I don't like things when someone doesn't have any evidence,
but there's the evidence. But even anacdoly and I guarantee
you had this happen multiple times too. You'd be dealing
with somebody in an arrest situation and they're like fucking policemen.
I hate the fucking cops, except for Constable Nash because
he was so good to me at Old Saint Jose
And so you realize that in that time that, yes,
it was that officer who became legitimate. So I don't
(23:32):
like the argument that where police agencies use things like
the SRO program to go, well, this is how we
become legitimate community, it's not. Actually it's a great program
that does great things. That's not one of them.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
But isn't it like a sliver then, like it's not
the whole organization gets a bump of legitimacy, But for
that kiddo. However, many let's say there's five hundred students
in a high school, and the vast majority are really
gonna have nothing to do with a cop, but maybe
say one hundred and fifty two and fifty are kind
of those kids who are have rough backgrounds, like.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
They're kind of on the line.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
They're going to go one of two ways, and maybe
of those fifty fifteen or twenty drift towards the side
that doesn't pull him down a rabbit hole. That's still
a legitimacy marker, that doesn't necessarily reflect on the whole organization,
but it kind of does in a small way.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yes, yeah, I would.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Yeah, I just I think that what that does is
it gives that just a system legitimacy. That individual is
no is moved out of the system in whatever way,
and they go on and live a life that's either
free of crime or whatever. Yeah, that person has been
positively impacted by a police officer and maybe later in
(24:46):
life has a totally different look towards police officers. I
can think of a police officer right now, I won't
say his name who was arrested and incarcerated and had
a really rough life, and he talked about his interactions
with the police.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Police.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
In hindsight, his interactions with the police made him want
to be a police officer because with the police officer
came the safety. With the police officer came, the stopping
of violence with the police officer became became. You know,
someone's not getting a beat up anymore. So yeah, I
think I think you're right. I think if you if
you move past that broad definition of police legitimacy that
(25:22):
academics use and kind of make it more tangible.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
I think you're right.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
I think there is some of that legitimacy that goes
for those individuals and possibly you know the pebble in
the pond art argument, right, drop a pebblin upond and
it ripples, and then and there could be those ripples
and you see, you know, you see that when when
you see families and I've been fortunate enough to be
involved in a lot of different families of people that
I've worked with and incarcerated and and then seen them succeed,
(25:48):
and all of a sudden, you're like, you didn't you
know as that whatever that interaction was or whatever that
happened to that person and it made them stop being
involved in crime. It's not just it's their kids, it's
there there, and so you see like a.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Ripple effect of that.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
And that's where again I'm diving off into another tangent,
but that's where again it makes me very very annoyed
when police agencies and government agencies don't fund the stuff
that prevents people from entering the justice system, because if
you do that ripple effect, you're five ten years from now,
you're gonna have a significantly different view and you're going
(26:25):
to look and go, this is what justice looks like.
This is our syst ore. We're not increasing the incarceration
of certain populations.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
We're not doing this.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
We're not doing that because we're stopping and we're putting
in place the upfront stuff that might cost money now,
but it's gonna save a shit ton of money later.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
And those are the things.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Like SRO programs are that they there's no way to
measure the preventative nature of an SRO, right, we don't know,
like you just use that those twenty kids that could
have gone down the path but didn't because the SRO
you can't measure that.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
But I know I remember Soros with Tammy Buckberger.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
One of the things that she did, and Jay Bellen too.
They would catch a kid smoking or doing something minorly
illegal and they'd be like, Okay, here's your ticket or
your appearance notice, but you come to work out with
me for a week every morning that goes away doing
their own restorative justice and you talk to them, and
(27:22):
the vast majority of those kids that got students children.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
I don't know what to call them kids, a baby
goats Intolanta.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
The vast majoriy of those people ended up staying working
out and coming for weeks and months and a year
after and that was all of a sudden. They became
part of something, and that means a lot. And I
think people don't understand that being a part of something
if you're not, if you.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Don't have that, you look for it. That's human nature.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
And unfortunately, sometimes you find yourself down the wrong path
with the wrong folks, and then all of a sudden,
your life takes a bunch of different turns that you
didn't expect it to take.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
And I think that can be prevented with the zero program.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
The other thing that I just thought of to typically speaking,
i'll talk about Edmonton in particular, school resource officers often
then go on to be promoted into areas like Chop
Protection section because they've already they know how to talk
to kids, or they work in areas that deal with
high risk youth. So that knowledge continues on and it
(28:19):
makes the whole place better because it makes those individuals
more highly skilled through experience and training that then impacts
that many more kids. So without a school officer program,
you'd have the one off, like people who just want
to deal with youth. But this is a more tangible
way to go. Well, there's a huge ripple. If you've
got let's say, twenty school resource officers as they make
(28:41):
their way through the organization, you're going to have even
a bigger impact on kids. Are young people high risk
or otherwise outside that space.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
And you also and I remember as the inspector there,
you'd watch where people wanted to go in the summertime.
Oftentimes they either went back to patrol, which was and
we did one time where we sent them all to
patrol as a for the most part, as a unit,
and they went and they went to all the hot
spot high not hotspots please sing with hot spots for
(29:12):
calls and high high calls for service areas.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
But you also saw them go to.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
For the summer to go to child protection, go to
Zebra and all of a sudden, Yes, they knew they
liked working with kids. Now they have a goal, right,
And not to say Tammy's name too much, but Tammy
said she was never going to put in for promotion,
but realized the only way that she could get to
that goal was put in for promotion and she's and
she did and that's and that's an awesome thing because
(29:38):
she's the kind of person who needs to be promoted
in the organization.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
And for her to.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Have a goal because she'd got to do that in
the in the summer months ago, but I really want
to do this full time. It was pretty cool to
see her achieve that goal and be phenomenal at.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
What she did.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Oh, that's going to segue nicely into kind of an
acknowledgment memorial, which I don't normally do, but Kyle Dubay
died about a year ago while I was in Maui.
That's the reason it popped in my head. So he
for those who don't know, it was friends of Danny
and I. I got to be on his podcast, he
was on ours. He had a rough go because one
(30:15):
of his sons committed suicide, which I think is what
broke his heart, which led to him dying of a
heart attack subsequently. But he was also a monster or
a titan or whatever you want to call it in
the space dealing with high risk youth as he was
the executive director of Uken Youth Services, which still.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Exists to this day.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
But He's one of those guys that was in it
for the right reasons, was doing everything he can to
make it better for what I think he called them knuckleheads,
his knuckleheads to become taxpayers.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
He said that was the goal.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Is to get them away from like the drain on
the system and have them have meaningful lives doing actual
work and all that and then moving on to that.
So I just want to acknowledge that it's almost a year.
I don't know the date because I'm terrible at dates,
which is also a protective mechanism thing for my brain.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
But that's coming up as well.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Yeah, and that's a good point. It's it's interesting that
his name has come up. He brought it up yesterday
because we looked at that one video that reminded you
of him.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Yeah, and then it came up.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
It came up about a week ago because we were
someone was talking about him at my in my office
at at Norquest, and it came up again today. Like
he just he's one of those people that had an
impact and that impact is lasting. Like I don't like
the term legacy, but Kyle actually he's one of the
(31:33):
few people that I've seen pass.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
Away that had a legacy that still.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Has impact at his his people, and the way that
people talk about him is always so positive and so
impactful and meaningful.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
And you're like, this is a dude who actually.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Probably doesn't even probably didn't even know, not a chance
the impact that he had because he was so humble
and so but yeah, he yeah, it's yeah, that's I'm
glad you brought that up. And I didn't even think
about it being a year ago, because why would you,
because I don't. I normally don't. Again, time frames are
not Yeah, I get protective mechanism.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
I don't really. I have no idea when our grandparents
died or I can't tell you the.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Year lettlone, the month me neither. But I know what
happened while I.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Was yeah, lodged in my head.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Yeah that's yeah, it's interesting. I'm gonna now do a
terrible diversion and shift because you started talking about time frame.
I knew you were going to say, so, I have
a couple of things I need to talk about here.
I need to confess, even confess so I really struggle.
I can now, if I really look at it, I
can tell time. It's about a quarter after just not
(32:41):
quite about thirty twelve minutes after two. Yeah, see said,
that's how long.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
It took me to read the time. I can't just
glance at a watch and look at the time.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
And to take keep in mind that you're not looking
at a digital you're talking about the hands.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Yes, I can keep I can luck at a digital number.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
I'm talking about I watch the hands. So I have
at least thirteen watches. I have watches at rate that
are someone Some are pretty expensive watches. And I've had
a watch thing for I had a watch thing that
where I watched all the time, and for a long
period of that time, I could not tell time at all.
So the watch was really uh decoration was like a
bracelet that had a moving piece in it. Interestingly enough,
(33:22):
I was sitting there one day and I usually kind
of pay attention to what time it is.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
I have a relatively good internal clock, and I'm.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Sitting there at a meeting and someone asked me what
time it was, and I looked at my watch and
I might go three fifteen. And they looked at my
watch and my watch was saying one point thirty because
it had stopped and died. And they're like, but you
actually said the right time, and you looked at your
watch and it was the wrong time, but I knew
in my head or roughly what time it was. And
they're like, okay, that was pretty impressed because they looked
(33:51):
at me and I said three fifteen and they're looking
at my watch and they're like and then they dug
their own phone out of their pocket and they're like,
you were totally right on the time, but your watch
is wrong. I'm like, yeah, I can't tell time. And
they're like, but you're wearing a watch. I'm like, yeah,
that's why I didn't know. It wasn't working anymore. That's
super weird. I know, that's a weird thing to have happened.
And I remember distinctly because I was segregated in school.
(34:14):
Segregated isn't the right word.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
I was. I was separated, taken.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Into a special class and stuff, and I literally remember
them working on the time with me, and they had
like a clock and it must have been horrible because
they had a clock and they had the hands and
they could move the hands and they'd be like, what
time is this? And I'd be like, I was like
Joey learning French on Friends and it's I still struggle
with it. But I do love watches. I think they're
(34:38):
very cool. And as I was getting batteries in my
watches and my watches fixed, the watch guy who's been
at Southgate Mall in the Bay for years and he's
a neat dude originally from England, and he as he's
a watchmaker and he that's which is kind of a
cool thing to be. He looks like a watchmaker. If
you imaged a watchmaker, this is the guy. But he
(34:58):
made a comment and he said watches are the most
intricate and delicate instrument that will a human being will
ever wear. And he's like a one bang in the
wrong way, one this, and it can destroy the watch
and you have to get taken apart and refixed. Specifically
watches that are like I have my one watch doesn't
(35:19):
have a battery about it doesn't. It needs winding once
and then the movement of your arm keeps that thing going.
So that think about what that that has to create,
the engineering behind that. And if you take it off
and leave it for a couple of days and it
starts working, then you wind it and then it works again.
Speaker 4 (35:36):
But it's one of.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Those things that it's it literally stays working because of
the movement of your body, which is insane. Right, I
have a better understanding about how planes can fly than
I do about how that watch works.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Yeah, I also along the line of the things, I
don't understand how a record player works. And because I
recently saw a picture, a close up picture, like a
like a microscopic, of the needle being dragged through the
troughs that make music. And again, that's an antiquated way
to listen to music that doesn't even exist in work.
I have no idea how that makes is anything. How
(36:10):
did someone think of that?
Speaker 4 (36:12):
That's a great question. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
I I again, I don't know either, But it's it
isn't an antiquated way of listening to music.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
A lot of people still do.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Like both my girls have record players, and they both
love they love here in the vinyl like they love
and I love it. I love here that there is
nothing better, in my opinion, than a vinyl record, and
there is nothing better at Christmas time then this will
hear the Christmas Bear being played on a vinyl record.
I truly believe that's the one of the most magical
as a child. That was a magical thing for me
(36:42):
to hear that, a little bit.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
Of crackling on a record.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
I thought we had it on.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
No, we had it on We had the album, the
Alabama Christmas Album. It was a big red one, and
then we had it on disc later. But yeah, we
had the big album, and I remember that's one. I'm
a fond memory that I have a child.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Okay, I think, Uhsten, there's something else you want to
talk about.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
What's I don't know how long that's been.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
About a half hours.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Yeah, okay, Uh, Danny will do the closing as always here.
Thanks to those who listen to us, I very much
appreciate it, and we're always astounded by the sheer volume
of you all out there. And those folks who listen
from the United States know that we still uh like
we had a guest on last one.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
That wasn't the last one.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
You dropped a police officer from the United States, and
we still think very highly.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Of the folks.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
It just it seems like the politicians right now are
getting in the way of those relationships.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
Yeah, I can cure there.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
You know, I know lots of folks from the US
people that I you know, do have done academic stuff
with and those folks know that, you know, we we
have lots of respect for you. And yeah, and I
hope my hope is that the politics don't get.
Speaker 4 (37:56):
In a way of any friendships. That's what my hope is. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
One final thing before I actually do the closing is
it is nice out and I'm watching We're sitting in
the park here. It's beautiful. The snow, most of it
is actually relatively clean here. It's been stepped on, but
it's nice that I like when the snow looks like
this is not all mucky.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
And I'm watching these.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
People take their dogs out and you can see these dogs,
like this little one that they just took out was
a tiny wee dog. This dog is probably the happiest
it's been in two weeks, because there's no way that
dog was going for walks in this way and in
this minus billion weather. And I know my own dogs
are gonna be looking very much forward to this weather
because even my big boy does not do well in
the snow. He takes him about two minutes before he's
(38:36):
his paws are up in the air and he can't
walk away.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
He doesn't have big furry feet like yours.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
So anyways, just wanted to mention that, and yeah, in closing,
I don't know if there's much more I can say.
We are on three D six land, the home of
the Cree, the Danaide, Lakota, Sue, the may Tee. Many
Inuit folks around are in this part of the territory.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
On a schnabe.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
But I just that statistic that has kind of stuck
with me that I heard this week and we talked
about today, that nineteen year gap and life expectancy for
Indigenous people. I just want to say that this might
piss people off. Land acknowledgments aren't enough. I believe doing
a land acknowledgment. I also believe doing a different one
every time, because I think can land acknowledgements are just
a checkbox for a lot of people now, and it
(39:24):
bothers me.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
I will say.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
One of the things I think is, you know, you
know where I work at Norquest, we have a different
person to the land acknowledgment every time we have a meeting,
and it's kind of nice that way and it makes
it more personal, but it's really truly we got to
do better. We can't just have land acknowledgments and I
expect things to change.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Totally agree.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
And then, just before we shut her down, here, as always,
either just mine and Danny's opinions have nothing to do
with where we work now, where we work in the past,
where we'll work in the future. It's just two idiots
musing about whatever the hell came up into our brains.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
Perfect, all right, with that, Love you, love you,
Welcome to another episode of Just Us on Justice and
other things. I am Scott Jones, your co host here
with my baby brother, Dan Jones, and it is a
I guess, not necessarily rare, but a long time coming
episode just the two of us, which means we just
meander about and talk about whatever pops into our heads
with very little planning. Although we actually plan out and
(00:22):
write out a little more topics when we're just the
two of us than we do with the guests, we
don't really prepare shit with guests, so sorry all the
guests that we haven't thought about preparing for, so we
have come random topics here today. I'm going to start
with some personal stuff with I am on my way
to Maui tomorrow. My wife and I and both of
our boys, who are in their twenties, are heading to
(00:44):
the islands for our thirtieth wedding anniversary. And it's kind
of a I don't know, not weird, it's not the
right word.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
We've gone to Maui number time. We've been very lucky.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
This is probably the last time for quite some time.
For a few reasons. One, our dollar is terrible against
the American dollars, so it's like seventy sounds on the dollar,
which is shit. The we're not going to go into politics,
but the politics of US and Canada right now. I
don't really want to go into politics, but what the
politics are. I don't want to go spend my money
somewhere that is like threatening our sovereignty and calling us
(01:16):
out and saying mean shit. So I'll take my money elsewhere.
And then when we get back, both of the boys
will be moving out into their own places. Like I said,
Terry and I have our thirtieth winning anniversary. So it's
like all kind of coming to a very interesting point.
A timely vacation I'm very much looking forward to, especially
since it's been minus five fucking thousand, which seems like
(01:37):
seventy two days in a row here, So yeah, looking
forward all that.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
I think it's interesting. I've been talking about you talking
about me. You can jure back a lot. No, I've
been talking about your boys leaving with just different people,
and just because I have friends that have kids in
all different stages of life, and one of them was like,
oh my god, what's it like to not have kids
at home? Because they're like want their kids not to
be at home and for different reasons and their kids
(02:02):
or whatever. But you guys actually have a really good
relationship with the boys, and these other people do too.
It's just there's a lot less Your boys are in
pretty low maintenance, so it's interesting, gonna be interesting for
you guys to be, you know, without your kids at home,
like I know, for Tera and I it was a big,
(02:23):
a big thing. But ours was kind of staggered, right,
And we also had we had a period of.
Speaker 4 (02:29):
Time where our my youngest daughter, Amma, was a.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Collegiate athlete, scholarship collegiate soccer player, so she was off
to school during school. So even in those kind of
years where your kids, your kids stayed home and went
to university, mine and mine went away. My youngest went away,
so we kind of had summers with her, and it
was just really staggered because my oldest moved out, then
she moved back in, then she moved out again, and
(02:52):
then she got married and now she lives in Ontario,
which is another shitty thing. Like my oldest Vanessa, she
lives in Ontario, which is awesome. They have a beautiful
place on Lake Simco now and her husband's a great guy.
But it does suck that you can't just drive for
even forty minutes to see your kid.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
Right.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
So we've had that empty nest syndrome or whatever you
call it for quite some time now, and you get
used to it, and there's huge benefits to it as well.
There's my benefits emotionally, there's benefits financially. One of the
other things too, like and you said the other day,
and this isn't a negative, but you said that it
(03:30):
was four o'clock in the morning or whatever you heard, Jack,
It's nice to not hear something at four o'clock in
the morning, right.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
And I remember that when the kids.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
Were living a home and going out to the bar.
I never slept well when they're out at the bar anyway,
and you'd be waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting
till you hear that door and it's three o'clock in
the morning and you're like, oh, they're home. And you know,
those kinds of things, they're little, but those are kind
of small benefits that you'll probably notice and appreciate. And
(03:59):
I think, and I think anyone who has been an
empty nester for a period of time, you're like, I
love having my kids around, and that's I think is
our kids like spending time with us. So we holiday
with them and like we're gonna do the Canadian Open
again next year this year now, she's like, it's this
year now, and we're gonna.
Speaker 4 (04:16):
Do that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
We plan as much as we can to make sure
that we have that time to spend with them. But
it's also nice to have that time where you don't
have to worry about anyone coming in your house. You
don't have to worry about who else is coming over, right,
which isn't like a not a negative, it's just a
nice kind of It's just a nice way to live.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
I'll be a millionaire because the amount of toilet paper, meat,
and toilet flushing that goes on in my house with
two boys, I would be ridiculous.
Speaker 3 (04:43):
Your water bill is going to decrease because I think
Jack is the longest shower I've ever met in my life.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
And laundry, Like I I almost wear the same clothes,
like a couple of days with t shirts, a week
with jeans. Obviously change underwear because that'd be gross that
that's kind of it. I will use a towel for
five or seven days until it needs me. The laundry
pile will be so small that I would be surprised
if our machine goals once a week once the fellows
are gone.
Speaker 4 (05:09):
If my jeens don't get whatever this is on them,
it's disgusting.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
What. I don't know what's hot my jeans right, and
I just it's just it's falling off into your car.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
It was just whatever it was was gross.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
But if my jeens don't get this on them, I
don't watch my genes for like a month. And there's
research that shows that it doesn't matter. Dnim does not
hold germs. It's not the thing that I think we
need to wash more. This is something I've been thinking
about a lot, and many of you probably have never
thought of this. I truly believe everyone says the dirtiest
thing in your that you have as your phone or whatever.
I truly believe it's your belt, because you'd go to
(05:40):
the bathroom, you defecate, you do your business, whether whether
it's peeing or pooping. The first thing you do, specifically
pooping is do your belt and your pants up. And
I wonder how many people out there wash their belt.
I actually now, ever, since I thought of that, I
use a lysole wipe on my belt all the time.
Speaker 4 (05:59):
Because it's growth and it's it's a hard thing to do.
Speaker 3 (06:02):
You can't if you have to go to the bathroom work,
which I try to avoid as much as possible. You
can't walk with your pants undone to the sink to
wash your hands.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
Because people are gonna think you're a free at home.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
You can do it, and I have started doing it
specifically depending on the bathroom I'm in.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
One bathroom is closer.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
To the sink, and I'm sure you all don't want
to know the details of my my bathroom breaks, but.
Speaker 4 (06:22):
I don't know. Have you ever thought about the belt
and how dred it is before?
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Yes, because you brought that up like two years ago.
You're Alzheimer's kitchen kicking in because we had this conversation.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
No one on the podcast, not on the podcast, No, no, no,
I know. Yeah. So since then, I do the same thing.
Maybe once a month.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
I take a lights all wipe to my whole belt,
and I don't other than when it's a million below
I don't wear a belt because I have shorts on
most of the year. This winter is the exception because
it's been so cold that even I haven't been able
to wear.
Speaker 4 (06:48):
Shorts, I always have a belt even when I wear shorts,
because I have known and I have no bumb Yeah,
I'm liking, like.
Speaker 1 (06:57):
Like an old man, you are an old man, I am.
So I think that's probably good to cover all that.
So a couple kind of more serious topics. You brought
up a stat the other day which is awful and
mind blowing that the life expectancy of an Indigenous person
is nineteen years less than a white person in Canada,
(07:22):
in Alberta, in oh, sorry, in Alberta. So can you
talk about like where that came from, what research, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (07:27):
Yeah, So they do this, they capture this all the time,
and this is the biggest discrepancy. And I don't remember
the year it started, but we're talking going back into
at least the seventies. It's the biggest discrepancies in the
history that they've tracked this data. So these data are
showing that nineteen years less. The average person who's non
(07:49):
Indigenous in the province of Alberta lives to eighty something
and minus I think it's eighty three and minus nineteen
years from that.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
So you're in your sixties versus your eighties. And that
is a crisis, health crisis that nobody is talking about. Right.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
We talk about opioids all the time, we talk about
those kinds of things, But what is happening in our
indigenous communities.
Speaker 4 (08:08):
That's the and there we can talk about it.
Speaker 3 (08:11):
Six hundred and eighty one, I believe was the last
number I heard of communities northern communities in Canada that
don't have clean drinking water, So that alone, you don't
have clean water.
Speaker 4 (08:21):
To drink, to wash your hands. We have. There's a
really good documentary I can't remember who did.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
It's called Third World Canada, and it's all about life
on reservations and specifically ones that are not near or
close to major centers, and the discrepancy in health care,
the discrepancy in education. All of these things all lead
to poor health outcomes. And it's a crisis that I
will say that traverses political lines, because yes, it's nineteen
(08:52):
years now under the UCP, but it was not that much.
It was still significant the under the NDP. And I
think what it is, it's it's this still systemic othering
and systemic racism that these statistics come out and nobody
looks for a solution to address them because the Indigenous
voices are still so muted and mumbled, and the individuals
(09:14):
of the that can speak truth to power are not
given the opportunity to talk about this tragic and horrendous
crisis that occurring with our indigenous peoples and the problems
well brow.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
And was it also was the statistic related to infant
mortality as well.
Speaker 3 (09:28):
Yeah, yes there's a I don't have the number, but
infant mortality is significantly higher in Indigenous communities. People at
life expectancy of age is significant as well.
Speaker 4 (09:41):
The older individuals get the less care they have.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
In some of these communities, in some of these places
where in Edmonton here we can you know, you can
have one of those in home people that are always
advertising on their radio, and you can pay for this.
Speaker 4 (09:52):
You can pay for that home care.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
And and you know, we know people that are that
are in care facilities that aren't paying of those care
facilities because those they're they're they covered under Age's a
lot of these folks in northern communities and on reserve
don't have that opportunity, and there's no there's no place
for them to go because.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
The reason I asked that.
Speaker 1 (10:13):
A lot of times in the you'll see, like in
the whatever seventeen hundreds of life expectancy was fifty five
or whatever I'm making sit up, But a lot of
that didn't mean that people were dying at fifty five.
And what it meant was there was a shit ton
of babies who died. Like people would have family five
and two or three, the kids would die really young.
And that was what drew that line down. So I
was just wondering if that was taken into accoun which
(10:35):
it obviously was.
Speaker 4 (10:35):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 3 (10:36):
And that's interesting that you bring that up too, because
I'm just gonna talk about evidence based practices for just
one second.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Evidence base it up.
Speaker 3 (10:46):
One of the things that they used to talk about
evidence based practice is when we were in UH school
and Andy had the example that they used was infant
mortality because there was a doctor who thought, hey, we
we should maybe wash our hands before we deliver babies,
and he's found that it reduced in mortality significantly. It
(11:07):
took I think it was it's either fifty or eighty
years before that became a standard practice.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
He was seen as a heretic and they thought he
was saying, I think he actually lost his medical license over.
Speaker 4 (11:15):
Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 3 (11:17):
So all of these things when you look at evidence,
when it comes to statistics, when it comes to mortality,
the problem is the people in the places of power
that have the ability to make the change. They don't
listen to it, and they don't hear it, and they
don't act upon it. And right now I think we
need to call out the provincial government when it comes
(11:40):
to what they're funding. And if we've got down to
this the lowest point ever in the history of these data,
and it's twenty twenty five, maybe we need to redirect
some of the spending, whether it be the twenty billion
dollars that we've talked about before that went to the
oil field companies for there to clean up their drill sites,
(12:04):
which they're contractedly obligated to do anyway, or when you
look at this most recent scandal in the in our
healthcare with that six hundred million dollars just going to
one company, where is the accountability and the transparency for
the budgets And why are we not addressing a crisis
of such epic proportions with our indigenous peoples and just because.
Speaker 1 (12:28):
As you were talking about Guled, it was Ignaz Samoluis
in the eighteen hundreds who was the guy who like, hey,
we should wash her hands, and he was very outspoken
about it, and then he eventually had a nervous breakdown
and was committed to an asylum and was beat by
guards and then died of an infection that had so
he he probably if he had a podcast, he'd be
like you.
Speaker 4 (12:49):
Probably, Yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
People don't like when you speak shoot the power sometimes.
And it's interesting because someone had made a comment to
me just today about listening to me on this podcast
and on the radio, and they're like, I love what
you say. You say it like it is, and you
say positives and you say negatives. But you are very
very honest to people that have power. And I'm like, yeah,
we have to be. And you know you said you
(13:12):
don't want to get political. This isn't political. This is
human nature. This is human beings. These are human lives
that are being lost. And I don't care if you're
a conservative or if an NDP or a freakin liberal,
I don't care what you are. If you see a
number like a nineteen year gap between our indigenous population's
life expectancy and the non indigenous population's life expectancy, and
(13:33):
you don't do anything about it, you are complicit in
those deaths.
Speaker 4 (13:37):
That's my opinion.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Yeah, no, I don't. I agree.
Speaker 1 (13:38):
This is not a political party thing. It's like you said,
didn't just happen in the last two years with a
change in government.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
It's a long time coming that.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Obviously the systems are failing, but it seems like all
the systems are failing right now. It doesn't matter trying
to go to a doctor in anywhere in Canada, trying
to go to an emergency room, education, people are wanting
to strike nurses around straight like everything seems to be
failing right now because it just kind of seems like
there is no seeving direction, there's nobody that you really
(14:06):
want to follow. And then all the stuff with the
US just it's kind of just piling onto all that
and it makes for a tough goal, which for me,
from the last of a while, I've had to go
like I need to not read the paper, I need
to hide the app. So my news app has been
buried on my phone because I found myself doom scrolling
and then get myself all anxious, and there's nothing I
(14:27):
can do about any of it, So there's not much
reason for me to dump energy and worry into what
it is that world leaders are going to go do that.
I will never be in a room with that. I
will have no influence on. So not advice. But what
I did was hide the app know that I was
doing that, and then pull myself away and then go, Okay,
what am I doing? Okay, I'm gonna go for a walk.
I'm gonna go for a walk outside, especially today because
(14:49):
it's nice out or inside, or go lift weights or
move or write or whatever, and do something that is
you looking after you instead of getting pulled down into
the muck and then just feeling bad about everything.
Speaker 4 (15:02):
Yeah, I agree, And it's interesting.
Speaker 3 (15:04):
Like I was, I was fortunate I got invited to
a roundtable today. It was actually it was described as
a non partisan ground table. It was held by a
government party. But they said right at the beginning, we
don't care what your your leanings are. We want to
talk about justice. We want to talk about funding, we
want to talk about what we need to do to change,
(15:25):
you know, the outcomes for the justice system. Right now,
we have massive backlogs and courts, and we have our
prisons are you know, we're putting more people in jail.
Our find systems are creating fines for people that can't
afford to pay fines. So then what's the answer do
you put this person in jail? Do we do we
start work camps? Like what do we do? So it
was interesting to sit in a room like that and
have those discussions, but at the same time reading all
(15:50):
the paper and doing all the stuff, and you know,
as hopeful as I am, is anything ever going to
actually change? I hope it does. I hope that we
see some aes. I hope next year we're doing a
podcast and we can say, oh, the you know, life
expectancy of indigent people has increased significantly in the problems
of Alberta.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
I hope that's true. But I at the same time
I agree with you. You can't.
Speaker 3 (16:12):
You could just sit there and read about America US
relationships like right now there. I just read something today
and it's like there hasn't been this much of a
political divide and during an international hockey game since the
Soviet Union and the Americans.
Speaker 4 (16:28):
I think it was nineteen seventy two and now you've
got this.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Now the divide is between the United States and Canada,
which is something I would have said, I would have
never expected to see in my lifetime, to have this
type of rhetoric being talked about. And you know, I
just saw there's a billboard in I think it's Bonnieville,
Alberta that says, Danielle Smith, please help us join the
(16:52):
United States and all that kind of like, and it's
it's just getting it's getting ridiculous, and it's it's it does.
It sits in your head and then you can all
sudden go down whatever doom's day potential that there is,
and all of a sudden you can be consumed by it.
Speaker 4 (17:06):
And I just do my best not to be.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
So pivot a little bit here, staying along the lines
of topical police stories, I guess school resource officers in
Edmonton in the public system a number of years ago
were removed at the request of the Emonton Public School Board,
and within last month that has been reversed and they're
(17:32):
back in schools. So let's go back a little bit.
School resource officer program in Edmonton is exceptional. The people
who work in those spaces are exactly who should be
working in those spaces. They're the right police officers to
deal with youth in those institutions. And we have both
seen well. You were the inspector in charge of them
(17:53):
at one point. I was a superintendent charge of them
at one point in our previous lives, and even before
that when I was in child protection section. The number
of schoolers are saucicers who had a huge impact on
kiddos who were coming forward with allegations of sexual abuse
because that schoolers of our saficer was the only person
that that kid would trust. The number of times that
(18:14):
suicide suicide attempts were averted because of that rapport and
relationships whereas is too numerous account So the reason I'm
bringing this up is they should absolutely be back in
public schools. They should never been taken out. And here's
where I was kind of mad for the week is
where's the apology from.
Speaker 2 (18:34):
The Edmonton Public school Board?
Speaker 1 (18:36):
Because it wasn't just like, hey, we're gonna look at this,
we'ren't really sure with the decision. It was very denigrading
of the profession. It was very much prison pipeline talk
and all that shit that it maybe happens in other jurisdictions.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
I don't know. I don't actually care because it doesn't
happen here.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
So I thought it was odd that all of a sudden,
we have them, exceptional police officers being put in there
with no acknowledgment to the harm and the moral injury caused.
A lot of the members were basically told they were
garbage and pieces of shit and they were there to
rest kids, when that was couldn't be further from the truth.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Oh yeah, yeah, So I had them for four years,
And it's interesting that you bring up that piece because
I was involved in the discussions around the program when
there was this call to get rid of them, which
was also amplified by the murder of George Floyd, Like
it was, that was an amplification of it, and that
(19:29):
police this and that, And one of the things that
we acknowledged as the police Service when I was working
there was that we had failed to do any adequate
research on the program and its efficacy, which is something
we fail, and most police agencies fail in all kinds
of things, right, because you look at darre and Darrow
was taught long after still being caught in some places,
(19:49):
and the evidence shows that it's not helpful. So that
research is something that I think police agencies need to
catch up on with a lot of things. But what
we did was we said, well, let's do the research
and let's not have this reaction yet. And the Catholic
school Board said, yep, they haven't. To Public school Board
said absolutely not.
Speaker 4 (20:10):
And the research they wanted, the questions that they wanted
were very very directed.
Speaker 3 (20:15):
It was almost directed research to get a certain outcome
the way they wanted to ask those questions. And we're like, no,
number one, you're not going to get a good research
to the earth that's going to come in and just
do your questions.
Speaker 4 (20:25):
That doesn't that's not how research works.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
So the Catholic school Board decided to maintain the SROs
and the Edmonton Public school Board decided to cancel the program,
causing a significant amount of you know, I would suggest
harm to the members.
Speaker 4 (20:41):
I would honestly say harm to.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Students, because there are those students that weren't didn't have
that safe space to go report a sexual assault. The
research was done by Bisserrius Wortley and Kinikas Samuel Wortley,
and it showed that the significant amount of positive reactions
to the SROs up and including all the different communities.
(21:06):
They went to the LGBTQ community, they went to black students,
they went to Indigenous students, they went to US students
of color, and the resounding answer was they loved their constables.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
It was interesting.
Speaker 3 (21:19):
The one group of that they found that didn't really
like the idea of an SRO were students who'd never
had one. And I would suggest that was largely because
of what's out there in the ether around the SRO program.
And you said you don't care about the research, which
I get, but the research in the States is actually
really unfortunate because.
Speaker 2 (21:37):
Though I meant I don't care because I don't really know.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
No, no, I know that's mean. I know that's what
you meant, and I get rid of all.
Speaker 3 (21:48):
But I said in those meetings, if I were to
have read this research, I would agree with you. But
I know what the program is, and I can say
the Catholic school Board was awesome and they were like okay,
and the principles of the schools that had SROs were
very much So I'm gonna say the Edmonton's Public school Board,
not the Eminton Public schools. I just want to make
(22:09):
sure we make that distinction teachers and principles very wanting,
very much wanting. And when they did the research that
because the research was being paid for the Evonton Public
School Board wanted to or did exclude the responses from
the principles and the teachers. They said that that doesn't matter,
it's the students that matter, which was fine because it
(22:31):
still showed the positiveness of the of the SRO program and.
Speaker 4 (22:36):
It is interesting.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
And and here's the other thing that I will say,
and this is one of the things that frustrates me
because I get frustrated when people say stuff and they
don't have any understanding or evidence to pay prove it.
One of the things that they argued all the time
was the argument that police schoolers ours officer increase police legitimacy.
That is untrue. It increases that police officer's legitimacy. And
(22:59):
I and it showed that in the research too, that yeah, well,
this doesn't mean I like all police or I think
the police are good.
Speaker 4 (23:05):
I like this police officer. And anecdotally, which I just.
Speaker 3 (23:09):
Said, I don't like things when someone doesn't have any evidence,
but there's the evidence. But even anacdoly and I guarantee
you had this happen multiple times too. You'd be dealing
with somebody in an arrest situation and they're like fucking policemen.
I hate the fucking cops, except for Constable Nash because
he was so good to me at Old Saint Jose
And so you realize that in that time that, yes,
it was that officer who became legitimate. So I don't
(23:32):
like the argument that where police agencies use things like
the SRO program to go, well, this is how we
become legitimate community, it's not. Actually it's a great program
that does great things. That's not one of them.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
But isn't it like a sliver then, like it's not
the whole organization gets a bump of legitimacy, But for
that kiddo. However, many let's say there's five hundred students
in a high school, and the vast majority are really
gonna have nothing to do with a cop, but maybe
say one hundred and fifty two and fifty are kind
of those kids who are have rough backgrounds, like.
Speaker 2 (24:05):
They're kind of on the line.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
They're going to go one of two ways, and maybe
of those fifty fifteen or twenty drift towards the side
that doesn't pull him down a rabbit hole. That's still
a legitimacy marker, that doesn't necessarily reflect on the whole organization,
but it kind of does in a small way.
Speaker 2 (24:22):
Yes, yeah, I would.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Yeah, I just I think that what that does is
it gives that just a system legitimacy. That individual is
no is moved out of the system in whatever way,
and they go on and live a life that's either
free of crime or whatever. Yeah, that person has been
positively impacted by a police officer and maybe later in
(24:46):
life has a totally different look towards police officers. I
can think of a police officer right now, I won't
say his name who was arrested and incarcerated and had
a really rough life, and he talked about his interactions
with the police.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
Police.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
In hindsight, his interactions with the police made him want
to be a police officer because with the police officer
came the safety. With the police officer came, the stopping
of violence with the police officer became became. You know,
someone's not getting a beat up anymore. So yeah, I
think I think you're right. I think if you if
you move past that broad definition of police legitimacy that
(25:22):
academics use and kind of make it more tangible.
Speaker 4 (25:26):
I think you're right.
Speaker 3 (25:26):
I think there is some of that legitimacy that goes
for those individuals and possibly you know the pebble in
the pond art argument, right, drop a pebblin upond and
it ripples, and then and there could be those ripples
and you see, you know, you see that when when
you see families and I've been fortunate enough to be
involved in a lot of different families of people that
I've worked with and incarcerated and and then seen them succeed,
(25:48):
and all of a sudden, you're like, you didn't you
know as that whatever that interaction was or whatever that
happened to that person and it made them stop being
involved in crime. It's not just it's their kids, it's
there there, and so you see like a.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
Ripple effect of that.
Speaker 3 (26:04):
And that's where again I'm diving off into another tangent,
but that's where again it makes me very very annoyed
when police agencies and government agencies don't fund the stuff
that prevents people from entering the justice system, because if
you do that ripple effect, you're five ten years from now,
you're gonna have a significantly different view and you're going
(26:25):
to look and go, this is what justice looks like.
This is our syst ore. We're not increasing the incarceration
of certain populations.
Speaker 4 (26:31):
We're not doing this.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
We're not doing that because we're stopping and we're putting
in place the upfront stuff that might cost money now,
but it's gonna save a shit ton of money later.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
And those are the things.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
Like SRO programs are that they there's no way to
measure the preventative nature of an SRO, right, we don't know,
like you just use that those twenty kids that could
have gone down the path but didn't because the SRO
you can't measure that.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
But I know I remember Soros with Tammy Buckberger.
Speaker 3 (27:01):
One of the things that she did, and Jay Bellen too.
They would catch a kid smoking or doing something minorly
illegal and they'd be like, Okay, here's your ticket or
your appearance notice, but you come to work out with
me for a week every morning that goes away doing
their own restorative justice and you talk to them, and
(27:22):
the vast majority of those kids that got students children.
Speaker 4 (27:26):
I don't know what to call them kids, a baby
goats Intolanta.
Speaker 3 (27:30):
The vast majoriy of those people ended up staying working
out and coming for weeks and months and a year
after and that was all of a sudden. They became
part of something, and that means a lot. And I
think people don't understand that being a part of something
if you're not, if you.
Speaker 4 (27:46):
Don't have that, you look for it. That's human nature.
Speaker 3 (27:48):
And unfortunately, sometimes you find yourself down the wrong path
with the wrong folks, and then all of a sudden,
your life takes a bunch of different turns that you
didn't expect it to take.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
And I think that can be prevented with the zero program.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
The other thing that I just thought of to typically speaking,
i'll talk about Edmonton in particular, school resource officers often
then go on to be promoted into areas like Chop
Protection section because they've already they know how to talk
to kids, or they work in areas that deal with
high risk youth. So that knowledge continues on and it
(28:19):
makes the whole place better because it makes those individuals
more highly skilled through experience and training that then impacts
that many more kids. So without a school officer program,
you'd have the one off, like people who just want
to deal with youth. But this is a more tangible
way to go. Well, there's a huge ripple. If you've
got let's say, twenty school resource officers as they make
(28:41):
their way through the organization, you're going to have even
a bigger impact on kids. Are young people high risk
or otherwise outside that space.
Speaker 4 (28:49):
Yeah, I totally agree.
Speaker 3 (28:50):
And you also and I remember as the inspector there,
you'd watch where people wanted to go in the summertime.
Oftentimes they either went back to patrol, which was and
we did one time where we sent them all to
patrol as a for the most part, as a unit,
and they went and they went to all the hot
spot high not hotspots please sing with hot spots for
(29:12):
calls and high high calls for service areas.
Speaker 4 (29:15):
But you also saw them go to.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
For the summer to go to child protection, go to
Zebra and all of a sudden, Yes, they knew they
liked working with kids. Now they have a goal, right,
And not to say Tammy's name too much, but Tammy
said she was never going to put in for promotion,
but realized the only way that she could get to
that goal was put in for promotion and she's and
she did and that's and that's an awesome thing because
(29:38):
she's the kind of person who needs to be promoted
in the organization.
Speaker 4 (29:41):
And for her to.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Have a goal because she'd got to do that in
the in the summer months ago, but I really want
to do this full time. It was pretty cool to
see her achieve that goal and be phenomenal at.
Speaker 4 (29:52):
What she did.
Speaker 1 (29:53):
Oh, that's going to segue nicely into kind of an
acknowledgment memorial, which I don't normally do, but Kyle Dubay
died about a year ago while I was in Maui.
That's the reason it popped in my head. So he
for those who don't know, it was friends of Danny
and I. I got to be on his podcast, he
was on ours. He had a rough go because one
(30:15):
of his sons committed suicide, which I think is what
broke his heart, which led to him dying of a
heart attack subsequently. But he was also a monster or
a titan or whatever you want to call it in
the space dealing with high risk youth as he was
the executive director of Uken Youth Services, which still.
Speaker 2 (30:32):
Exists to this day.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
But He's one of those guys that was in it
for the right reasons, was doing everything he can to
make it better for what I think he called them knuckleheads,
his knuckleheads to become taxpayers.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
He said that was the goal.
Speaker 1 (30:47):
Is to get them away from like the drain on
the system and have them have meaningful lives doing actual
work and all that and then moving on to that.
So I just want to acknowledge that it's almost a year.
I don't know the date because I'm terrible at dates,
which is also a protective mechanism thing for my brain.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
But that's coming up as well.
Speaker 3 (31:02):
Yeah, and that's a good point. It's it's interesting that
his name has come up. He brought it up yesterday
because we looked at that one video that reminded you
of him.
Speaker 4 (31:10):
Yeah, and then it came up.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
It came up about a week ago because we were
someone was talking about him at my in my office
at at Norquest, and it came up again today. Like
he just he's one of those people that had an
impact and that impact is lasting. Like I don't like
the term legacy, but Kyle actually he's one of the
(31:33):
few people that I've seen pass.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
Away that had a legacy that still.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Has impact at his his people, and the way that
people talk about him is always so positive and so
impactful and meaningful.
Speaker 4 (31:45):
And you're like, this is a dude who actually.
Speaker 3 (31:48):
Probably doesn't even probably didn't even know, not a chance
the impact that he had because he was so humble
and so but yeah, he yeah, it's yeah, that's I'm
glad you brought that up. And I didn't even think
about it being a year ago, because why would you,
because I don't. I normally don't. Again, time frames are
not Yeah, I get protective mechanism.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
I don't really. I have no idea when our grandparents
died or I can't tell you the.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Year lettlone, the month me neither. But I know what
happened while I.
Speaker 4 (32:14):
Was yeah, lodged in my head.
Speaker 3 (32:18):
Yeah that's yeah, it's interesting. I'm gonna now do a
terrible diversion and shift because you started talking about time frame.
I knew you were going to say, so, I have
a couple of things I need to talk about here.
I need to confess, even confess so I really struggle.
I can now, if I really look at it, I
can tell time. It's about a quarter after just not
(32:41):
quite about thirty twelve minutes after two. Yeah, see said,
that's how long.
Speaker 4 (32:47):
It took me to read the time. I can't just
glance at a watch and look at the time.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
And to take keep in mind that you're not looking
at a digital you're talking about the hands.
Speaker 4 (32:54):
Yes, I can keep I can luck at a digital number.
Speaker 3 (32:58):
I'm talking about I watch the hands. So I have
at least thirteen watches. I have watches at rate that
are someone Some are pretty expensive watches. And I've had
a watch thing for I had a watch thing that
where I watched all the time, and for a long
period of that time, I could not tell time at all.
So the watch was really uh decoration was like a
bracelet that had a moving piece in it. Interestingly enough,
(33:22):
I was sitting there one day and I usually kind
of pay attention to what time it is.
Speaker 4 (33:29):
I have a relatively good internal clock, and I'm.
Speaker 3 (33:31):
Sitting there at a meeting and someone asked me what
time it was, and I looked at my watch and
I might go three fifteen. And they looked at my
watch and my watch was saying one point thirty because
it had stopped and died. And they're like, but you
actually said the right time, and you looked at your
watch and it was the wrong time, but I knew
in my head or roughly what time it was. And
they're like, okay, that was pretty impressed because they looked
(33:51):
at me and I said three fifteen and they're looking
at my watch and they're like and then they dug
their own phone out of their pocket and they're like,
you were totally right on the time, but your watch
is wrong. I'm like, yeah, I can't tell time. And
they're like, but you're wearing a watch. I'm like, yeah,
that's why I didn't know. It wasn't working anymore. That's
super weird. I know, that's a weird thing to have happened.
And I remember distinctly because I was segregated in school.
(34:14):
Segregated isn't the right word.
Speaker 4 (34:15):
I was. I was separated, taken.
Speaker 3 (34:17):
Into a special class and stuff, and I literally remember
them working on the time with me, and they had
like a clock and it must have been horrible because
they had a clock and they had the hands and
they could move the hands and they'd be like, what
time is this? And I'd be like, I was like
Joey learning French on Friends and it's I still struggle
with it. But I do love watches. I think they're
(34:38):
very cool. And as I was getting batteries in my
watches and my watches fixed, the watch guy who's been
at Southgate Mall in the Bay for years and he's
a neat dude originally from England, and he as he's
a watchmaker and he that's which is kind of a
cool thing to be. He looks like a watchmaker. If
you imaged a watchmaker, this is the guy. But he
(34:58):
made a comment and he said watches are the most
intricate and delicate instrument that will a human being will
ever wear. And he's like a one bang in the
wrong way, one this, and it can destroy the watch
and you have to get taken apart and refixed. Specifically
watches that are like I have my one watch doesn't
(35:19):
have a battery about it doesn't. It needs winding once
and then the movement of your arm keeps that thing going.
So that think about what that that has to create,
the engineering behind that. And if you take it off
and leave it for a couple of days and it
starts working, then you wind it and then it works again.
Speaker 4 (35:36):
But it's one of.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
Those things that it's it literally stays working because of
the movement of your body, which is insane. Right, I
have a better understanding about how planes can fly than
I do about how that watch works.
Speaker 1 (35:49):
Yeah, I also along the line of the things, I
don't understand how a record player works. And because I
recently saw a picture, a close up picture, like a
like a microscopic, of the needle being dragged through the
troughs that make music. And again, that's an antiquated way
to listen to music that doesn't even exist in work.
I have no idea how that makes is anything. How
(36:10):
did someone think of that?
Speaker 4 (36:12):
That's a great question. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (36:13):
I I again, I don't know either, But it's it
isn't an antiquated way of listening to music.
Speaker 4 (36:19):
A lot of people still do.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
Like both my girls have record players, and they both
love they love here in the vinyl like they love
and I love it. I love here that there is
nothing better, in my opinion, than a vinyl record, and
there is nothing better at Christmas time then this will
hear the Christmas Bear being played on a vinyl record.
I truly believe that's the one of the most magical
as a child. That was a magical thing for me
(36:42):
to hear that, a little bit.
Speaker 4 (36:44):
Of crackling on a record.
Speaker 2 (36:45):
I thought we had it on.
Speaker 3 (36:46):
No, we had it on We had the album, the
Alabama Christmas Album. It was a big red one, and
then we had it on disc later. But yeah, we
had the big album, and I remember that's one. I'm
a fond memory that I have a child.
Speaker 1 (37:01):
Okay, I think, Uhsten, there's something else you want to
talk about.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
What's I don't know how long that's been.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
About a half hours.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
Yeah, okay, Uh, Danny will do the closing as always here.
Thanks to those who listen to us, I very much
appreciate it, and we're always astounded by the sheer volume
of you all out there. And those folks who listen
from the United States know that we still uh like
we had a guest on last one.
Speaker 2 (37:28):
That wasn't the last one.
Speaker 1 (37:29):
You dropped a police officer from the United States, and
we still think very highly.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
Of the folks.
Speaker 1 (37:34):
It just it seems like the politicians right now are
getting in the way of those relationships.
Speaker 4 (37:39):
Yeah, I can cure there.
Speaker 3 (37:40):
You know, I know lots of folks from the US
people that I you know, do have done academic stuff
with and those folks know that, you know, we we
have lots of respect for you. And yeah, and I
hope my hope is that the politics don't get.
Speaker 4 (37:56):
In a way of any friendships. That's what my hope is. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
One final thing before I actually do the closing is
it is nice out and I'm watching We're sitting in
the park here. It's beautiful. The snow, most of it
is actually relatively clean here. It's been stepped on, but
it's nice that I like when the snow looks like
this is not all mucky.
Speaker 4 (38:14):
And I'm watching these.
Speaker 3 (38:14):
People take their dogs out and you can see these dogs,
like this little one that they just took out was
a tiny wee dog. This dog is probably the happiest
it's been in two weeks, because there's no way that
dog was going for walks in this way and in
this minus billion weather. And I know my own dogs
are gonna be looking very much forward to this weather
because even my big boy does not do well in
the snow. He takes him about two minutes before he's
(38:36):
his paws are up in the air and he can't
walk away.
Speaker 4 (38:39):
He doesn't have big furry feet like yours.
Speaker 3 (38:42):
So anyways, just wanted to mention that, and yeah, in closing,
I don't know if there's much more I can say.
We are on three D six land, the home of
the Cree, the Danaide, Lakota, Sue, the may Tee. Many
Inuit folks around are in this part of the territory.
Speaker 4 (39:00):
On a schnabe.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
But I just that statistic that has kind of stuck
with me that I heard this week and we talked
about today, that nineteen year gap and life expectancy for
Indigenous people. I just want to say that this might
piss people off. Land acknowledgments aren't enough. I believe doing
a land acknowledgment. I also believe doing a different one
every time, because I think can land acknowledgements are just
a checkbox for a lot of people now, and it
(39:24):
bothers me.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
I will say.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
One of the things I think is, you know, you
know where I work at Norquest, we have a different
person to the land acknowledgment every time we have a meeting,
and it's kind of nice that way and it makes
it more personal, but it's really truly we got to
do better. We can't just have land acknowledgments and I
expect things to change.
Speaker 2 (39:44):
Totally agree.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
And then, just before we shut her down, here, as always,
either just mine and Danny's opinions have nothing to do
with where we work now, where we work in the past,
where we'll work in the future. It's just two idiots
musing about whatever the hell came up into our brains.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
Perfect, all right, with that, Love you, love you,
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